Join noted author & pundit Molly Jong-Fast for irreverent humor that cuts right to the heart of our politics today as she discusses the top political headlines with some of today’s best minds. Known for being one of the few interviewers in politics to cut through the talking points, Molly reveals the personalities and issues tearing the country apart. She asks the questions no one else does, and gets the answers even her guests didn’t expect to give – and exactly what you want to know. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday & Friday for the funniest yet serious look at what’s ailing America.
The Lincoln Project’s Rick Wilson, host of the new podcast The Enemies List, drops by to talk about how MAGA world will continue to insight violence towards Dems and Elon Musk’s degradation of Twitter. Then Rep. Ruben Gallego talks with us about what to watch leading up to the midterms. Then we have an important interview with Chief Chuck Hoskin Jr. the Principle Chief of the Cherokee Nation, as well as, Kim Teehee, the Cherokee Nation’s nomination to be their delegate to Congress.
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Hi, I'm Molly Zhang-Fast and this is Fast Politics where we discuss the top political headlines with some of today's best minds and Twitter is turning into a coon. Today we have a great show. Reuben Gallego, who represents Arizona's seventh congressional district, will tell us all about what he's seeing in the midterms. Then we'll be joined by Chief Hoskin Jr., Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation and Kim Tehee, the Cherokee Nation's nominee to be their delegate to Congress, who will talk to us about a host of issues. But first we have the Lincoln Projects, Rick Wilson, the host of the new podcast, The Enemy's List. Welcome to Fast Politics, Rick Wilson. Molly Zhang-Fast, how are you today? I'm good. I feel like we're back on the old days of the internet when Twitter in 2015, when Twitter was a little bit reddit. When there was a little bit more shit than shit show? I mean, I said I like went to sleep on Twitter and woke up on 4chan.
Level of like crazy vitriol. These are people that before I became an internet person, I thought they were Russian bots and I was much happier. Now that I know they're actual people in America, it's really scary. Well, I mean, look, I'll probably get in trouble for this. I know that shocking that I might say something to get me in trouble. The ones who are the anonymous dipshits as like TJ Thundercock, Maga Ultra, Nuclear, Sex God 69, which may or may not be my screen name here on the podcast app. We're recording this on today. When you've got guys like that, who either have a Peppy the Frog avatar or they've got their dollar store knockoff Costa sunglasses in their 14% interest rate, Ford F-250. As a former Ford F-250 owner, I paid cash from mine, but that's another story. These guys who for years complained like, oh, if I say anything against the Blue Check libtards, I'll get canceled by the bird. Twitter will cancel me. They're so woke.
Well, Daddy Elon's here now, everybody. So why don't you come out and fight under your own names?
Why don't you come out and lose the anonymous pictures of Roman generals or of John Wayne or Arnold Schwarzenegger, whatever homoerotic thing is stoking your repression and just come out and own what you say. Okay. So a 82-year-old man was attacked by a 42-year-old man who had been for the last few years posting on a QAnon blog. That man broke into Nancy Pelosi's residence 2.30 at night. He attacked 82-year-old Paul Pelosi. He screamed, where's Nancy?
Yeah, he hit Pelosi with a hammer, hit him in the head. It's been reported by CNN today that he had plastic zip ties with him, which again, a favorite of those January 6 tourists zip ties. Because that's what you do when you're on a tourist vacation as you bring zip ties with you. Somehow Pelosi got into the bathroom, called 911. The police came. Paul Pelosi now in the hospital having all kinds of surgery on his hands, on his head. He has a fractured skull. Republicans are begging for forgiveness and saying that political violence is not okay. Oh, wait, no, they're not. Rick Wilson thoughts? Well, look, let's be blunt. And I posted something a little before we recorded this on the Twitter machine, calling it what it was. It was an assassination attempt. The guy was looking for Nancy Pelosi. He brought a hammer. He was screaming, where is Nancy? Where is Nancy? And the argument that this guy is crazy. The guy has mental problems that the guy has some sort of past history of posting liberal things is all irrelevant. He was motivated by this ecosystem of conspiracy and of lies. And he was caught up in that whirlpool of bullshit that Steve Bannon and Rupert Murdoch and Lachlan Murdoch and Alex Jones and a hundred other imitators of each of those every day puts out there into the world where very soft minded, very weak minded people on the MAGA side of the equation snap up the conspiracy theory and start living it. And the fact that this guy may have had mental problems is irrelevant to the case. It's irrelevant. He didn't have mental problems in pick Nancy Pelosi out of a lineup randomly out of the phone book. He had mental problems and the agitprop propaganda ecosystem out there fed him an endless stream of insanity. And it told him that Nancy Pelosi had to be destroyed, that she's a socialist communist, sleeper agent, pedophile, whatever soup we have brewed up in this guy's brain fed by that media ecosystem, fed by the Q and honors, fed by the big lie people, fed by the billionaires who are funding these operations, these news operations and who know better. That's what led here. I want to make a point about assassinations and people are the right wing people. They're losing their shit with me on Twitter right now to a scope I haven't seen since the before times of like 2016, 2015. And it's because I said that this is an assassination attempt. And until I'm told otherwise by any set of evidence, otherwise, I don't care what their excuses are. I don't care if they say, well, what about Antifa storming the Capitol to protest the Supreme Court? What about this? What about I don't care their side of this equation is dedicated now to violence. They proved it on one six. They excuse it to this day. Most of their candidates on the trail across this country from dog catcher to US Senate still believe in that lie or they're willing to claim they believe in that lie to get elected.
And it is going to feed this monster. And throughout history, Molly, an awful lot of people who committed political assassinations, they were not the devious masterminds. They were not the movie, the movie version of the cool calculating professional killer on a rooftop somewhere.
They were crazy people. They were insane people who got caught up in a web of lies and deceptions and bullshit and propaganda and were manipulated by people who are much smarter than they are and manipulated into doing things and being convinced that what they're going to do is the thing that saves the world and that validates their lives and that turns them into something heroic. It is no different than a troubled mentally ill 15 year old or 16 or 17 year old who is picked up by ISIS or al-Qaeda or any other terrorist group and told, okay, Hamid, you're going to run this bomb truck into the into the roadblock and kill all these American soldiers because you're going to heaven and that will save the people of Islam. It is no different.
It is a psychologically manipulative process that breeds and activates killers and these people are responsible for it. Right. So, but let's talk about the response to the response because this is really interesting. So, I had sort of thought people are going to say like this is enough.
Even Fox people are going to say this is enough. It's scary. He's 82. He's getting brain surgery.
Look, I'm no fan of Paul Pelosi. I mean, the guy, as I've said again and again and again, members of Congress should not have spouses who trade stocks. Okay. Like period paragraph and one of the greatest examples of that is Paul Pelosi. But I thought for sure this would be a bridge too far. But in fact, the way that the right has messaged this was, you know, this never happened or B was this is Democrats are going to do something terrible now in order to get you back.
Well, remember the first the first iteration of it was this just proves our point that San Francisco is a festering hellhole of crime. And this could happen to anybody. Well, remember a lot of their first statements were this could happen to anybody that knew they want to defund the police. And this is what happens if you defund the police. Well, it turned out it wasn't that.
And their next iteration was even more lurid and insane. And it's being pushed by, you know, quality individuals like Dinesh D'Souza, right? You know, who, who I wouldn't believe Dinesh D'Souza if he said the sun rose in the East and the sky tends to be a bluish color.
Right. Exactly. You know, and John Cardillo and Bon Gino and all the usual assortment of Magus Chodes and scumbags and weirdos. So they transformed it based on nothing into it was a lurid gay sex orgy and, you know, Paul Pelosi and this guy were lovers and the whole first off, if you're 82 years old and you still want to go hit it, God bless you will be straighter day.
I don't care. God bless. Go get it. Go get it, tiger. Go get it. But if you're 82 years old and you are paying for sex, okay, so again, 82 paying for sex already were that's like four people.
Okay. I think that's fair to say. Are you going to be doing that with a guy who has a long history of writing on QAnon and psychotic behavior? It doesn't meet the Occam's jiggaloo test. Okay.
It just doesn't work. Yes. Occam's jiggaloo. The entire right wing media ecosystem now, of course, then follows along because Elon quotes the Santa Monica observer, which apparently has previously informed us that Hillary Clinton was dead and replaced by a clone and is not what we call a actual mainstream or even right wing media publication. It's just one of these auto bot style AI generated content farms. It makes the gateway pundit look like the New York Times.
Right. It's one of these weirdo AI generated content farms. And so of course, now I'm told at airtime he's pulled that tweet down. I don't know if that's the case or not. I haven't checked.
Yes, it is. He deleted it. Okay. He deleted it. Well, I, you know, quietly. But all of...
He has 120, 122 million followers. Probably didn't see it.
Right. Probably missed it because obviously that's the responsible thing to do. All I have to say is I still believe that regardless of Elon buying Twitter, he has a lot of investors. He wants to keep the valuation of this investment high. He wants to make those investors happy because some of them are people who cut your head off if you fuck them, Saudi Arabia, and you know, I'm just going to make a guess. This is a crazy guess. Now I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say that American corporate advertisers, if there's a good possibility that Elon's going to someday retweet Jew killer 666 oven master MAGA nuclear lord. It seems very likely that they might not want to have their ad dollars on that platform. The idea that you're going to have this platform with zero content moderation has given the MAGA is a hard on for weeks on end, and they've been absolutely fanatic about it. A lot of these ad companies are going to think to themselves, huh, so it's going to be a free for all shit show where anti-Semitism, where the inward and the entire spectrum of unbelievably shit tier behavior that is definitional to the trolling MAGA nihilist movement is going to be what the platform is known for. That sounds like a great recipe for family friendly companies. Well, I think this sort of, hey, come on down to Universal Studios theme park, and we're going to make sure we show you the advertisement right over the place where someone says Kanye was right about the Jews. Right. I mean, I think the story here is that you can't, and 4chan does not have great advertisers. Right. Well, listen, if you really want the good advertisers, you've got to go to 8kun, which replaced 4chan, because 4chan is 8kun for cucks. Right, exactly.
It's not, I think the point is that, you know, the reality is, and I think it's the sort of lesson from Facebook here, right? People stop being on Facebook except the very low information, and, you know, your grand uncle, I mean, the sort of people who are much older, people really went off of Facebook because it had so much kind of 4chan content, and I think that's possibly what we're going to see at Twitter. So I was having a discussion with a, let's call it a tech activist person from the Valley on Friday, and the feeling of that Facebook has placed a gigantic pile of money in the middle of a warehouse, and that Mark Zuckerberg has piled up that money and poured gas on it like the Joker and set it on fire to do the meta cartoon universe thing he's doing, at the same time as their user base is imploding and their stock price is cratering.
This person who is a serious tech investor said, I am enjoying every second of this. I was out of Facebook a couple of years ago, and I'm enjoying every second of this. Yes, Twitter is now a private company in the hands of Elon Musk, but there's an awful lot of paper out there that isn't his money.
Right. And if you don't think you're going to have other stakeholders in this operation saying, wait, you think we're going to turn this into the Elon Musk free speech zone? So look, they're not going to turn Twitter into what the Magus think it's going to be. Now, we are hearing never ending drumbeat that Trump will be back on Monday. We'll see. We'll see what happens in our midnight. He will. That will kill Trump's so true social. If he does that, that's like saying, wow, these zombies are chasing after us. We better not shoot them because it might hurt them.
True social is already a dead social media platform. I mean, that that is that that that truth of Trump's from Friday. But truth is true social is out doing Facebook, TikTok, Twitter, and the rest. I'm like, okay, grandpa, time for your medicine and your nap. Good God.
I'm curious to know how you think this plays out now.
This has become like everything else in this country becomes a cultural war battle.
Everything in the country is always now reduced to a cultural war fight. Everything. And so, you know, the right at the moment is feeling this triumphalism, this two tiered triumphalism.
We've got Twitter back and we're going to win everything in the election. And and these two things have freed us from the from our normal levels of polite discretion. Now we shall have a have a little room, spring of dickishness. But I do think it, you know, this is we're back to this idea that invisible impression is the hardest to fight, right? That not being oppressed at all is the worst kind of oppression. Right. I mean, the idea that middle class white dudes and upper middle class white dudes are the real victims here of American culture today. There, you know, whenever I see a guy in the last like 48 hours, 72 hours on Twitter, who starts out saying like, well, I don't like everything Trump did, but you know, the Jews control everything.
When I see that, all I can think of is, man, I just feel so bad for your for your economic anxiety. If your economic anxiety lasts for more than four years, talk to your doctor.
And look, a lot of these, a lot of these people who are trying to run for office as election deniers and conspiracy goons are going to win. And it's going to get more normalized and it's going to get more regularized. It's going to get more two years ago. Marjorie Taylor Green was unacceptable and must be stripped of her committees by the Republicans. Now she is the most powerful Republican in the new caucus that will be elected. And it's going to be a Republican majority. So for sorry, folks, math and redistricting suck. She's now the most powerful person in that caucus.
She runs the Republican caucus. She's every morning, Kevin McCarthy, they're going to go knock on the door and go, go get the GIMP. GIMP's sleeping. Marge wants the GIMP. And they're going to haul McCarthy out there. And he's going to dance like a robot to what Marjorie Taylor Green wants.
And she's going to want the impeachment of Joe Biden, two years of Hunter Biden laptop investigations and on and on and on and on and on. We have, you know, Marjorie Taylor Green, if she is the sort of queen of the house and McCarthy is the speaker or Jim Jordan is the speaker, you really could see a Republican house that really hurts Republicans in 24 and spend the next two years. Very quick. No, no, look, this is 1996, 98 all over again, where in 94, the Republicans won a huge majority. They overreached in 94. And so in 96, Clinton was able to win.
And then in 98, because of Newt Gingrich, right? These people, they got so over their skis.
Hey, and believe me, who doesn't, who doesn't yearn for the days of impeachments over blowjobs or just yearn for maybe that'll be cut out of the final version. But but, but, you know, they're going to go and remember what happens now is going to be amplified to a degree that was unimaginable back then with social media and this integrated right wing media ecosystem. And it's going to sound and look to American voters, not just like the other parties in charge, but like the craziest people you ever saw were in charge. You know, I didn't add the other day, it was very much a Gen X ad. It was called Large March. It was about, you know, Marjorie Taylor Greene, and it was a play on Large March from Pee Wee Herman. And I had people who were like, Oh, my God, she is the craziest, craziest lady I ever seen. And it just struck me that people have not priced in the fact that when reporters on congressional matters in the next two years are covering, they're going to her first, not to Kevin, not to Steve Scalise, not to Elise Tafonic. Although, you know, Elise Tafonic, yeah, of course, Elise Tafonic is now just like Marjorie Taylor Greene. They can't fake it anymore. They can't fake it.
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His mother and youngest brother are set to testify against him. It is extremely rare for family to testify against family. The defense table sits right in front of the witness box. So he's going to be looking right at his brother and his brother's going to be looking right at him. Will he face the death penalty or will he walk free? When a jury member sees a human body that's in ripped shreds, they want a pound of flesh. Listen to the Pyton massacre season four. Trials begin on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So what do you want to know about sex? I'm Lila. I'm the host of the new I Heart podcast, Positively Sex, Sex Ed with Pleasure.
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I wanted to say you were a congressman because you're a fancy congressman. I'm a fancy man.
Yeah, very. Speaking of which, okay, make me feel better. Are Democrats going to get shellacked in this midterms? No. Look, if you would have asked any congressman, pronosticator, or just political nerd, how would the Democrats do after winning the presidential election in 2020? They would say, of course, we're going to lose because the party empire always loses. Fact is right now, it's the Republicans are losing the Senate race, and the House race is like, it's up in the air, and it shouldn't even be up in the air.
Right? So it tells you how bad the brand of the Republican party is that they're still trying to figure out how to get to a majority even after all the Germanic wins that they have. So keep the faith. We're on our way. All right, so talk to me about you are from probably one of the most important states in the country because it is like has a lot going. Yes, it's the best. It's near, yes, but it's also got a lot going on. What is happening in Arizona? And explain to us because, I mean, all I see is terrifying, blurry, Kerry Lake everywhere.
You know, Arizona has moved to a very competitive state. Normally, if you find us in an off year election, we're not very competitive state for Democrats. But look, Arizona has been moving the right way because the Arizona Democratic Party, Arizona Democrats, we just know how to fight.
And the Republican Party is just, well, not a Republican Party, but the candidates they put up this year are just a bunch of wackos up and down the ticket. And so we've effectively been able to fight that argument. Now, it's still a kind of a, you know, swing state. So the Republicans are always going to get close, at least for this cycle. But, you know, we're in the thick of it.
Our polling shows that the Democrats are going up and down the ticket. And we're just going to go all the way. But you can't deny that it's a tight race because, again, Arizona is a swing state.
It's always going to be tight, at least for the next couple of cycles. Yes, it's always been going to be tight. But it feels like from where I am, which is quite far away, that Kerry Lake is fighting in a way that her opponent, Katie Hobbs, is not. Well, they have two different styles.
I would say one is Kung Fu. The other one is jujitsu. And I think Katie Hobbs is doing jujitsu, where, you know, Kerry is mostly just kind of throwing haymakers. Everyone see where she can land. At the end of the day, you know, I think the quality of the messaging matters. And I think Kerry Lake's messaging is not that great when it comes to the electorate. Donald Trump is very unpopular in Arizona. I think Kerry Lake is probably skewing a little too close to him.
And that's why the elections are, you know, one or two points with Katie Hobbs in the lead or one or points behind. But like, it's still a very competitive race.
There are a lot of people who listen to this podcast who are pretty committed Democrats, who are pretty freaked out. So what would you tell them?
Stop being freaked out. Stop letting other people freak you out. Just continue to call fundraise, door knock, and push through the campaign. This is an environment that's being built up by the media. The fact that we're still in the hunt should tell you a lot where the public is versus where the media is. Because the media was telling us that Democrats were dead in the water four months ago, three months ago, two months ago, one month ago, two weeks ago, and yet we're still here. So stop looking to the media to give you direction. Just put your head down, hit the doors, get on the phones, donate to your favorite candidates, and let's just win this.
So let's talk about your favorite candidates. Who are candidates that our listeners should be maybe donating to who aren't on their radar?
I would say two down in southern Florida, Roberto Ascencio, who was a last minute run against Carlos Jimenez. He is a former police officer, army veteran, former state legislator, and with very little support, is within three points of Carlos Jimenez. Any money going to him right now is going to go a very, very long way. Also Annette Tadell, who is really like a rock star candidate, Colombian origin, one of those people that you can't really, especially down in Florida where they, you claim that they try to claim everyone's assortions or communists, her parents are literally kidnapped by communists in Colombia. She owns her own small business. I mean, she is great. And she was the first Colombian born in Colombia, an Americanized citizen, a nationalized citizen to become a member of Congress. And so those two are really, really strong pickups. I think Yadira Caravell in Colorado, and then for Arizona, Jevin Hodge, who's running against De Shwecker, has been keeping it very tight. Every poll has him tied. And then Kristen Engel, down in southern Arizona, the former Gifords district, again, every poll has him tied. But because we're a flyover state, a lot of the, I would say, a lot of the money kind of misses these two races.
Talk to me about one of the things that there's a lot of coverage about is this idea that Democrats can't win Latinos or that Democrats are losing that group. Can you talk about that?
Sure. Look, in some areas, we are losing Latinos, which by me, we're losing them. We're not winning them by as much as we used to, right? And sometimes that does matter, depending on what happens.
Sometimes we are winning Latinos by smaller margins, but there are now more Latinos, so it doesn't really matter. So like as the population expands, we're winning 62% to 65%, right? So at the end of the day, that's still a winning margin. Some areas, it shows us what happens when you don't do work. Southern Texas, there's been years and years of neglect. Southern Florida, there was a new year, a new year, some neglect. And it's going to take us a while to really start coming back. And then there's really good examples of the opposite of that. California, Arizona, Colorado, Nevada, I mean, there's a lot of places you're seeing that work does matter. But you have to make them put the money and you have to put the investment in. The Latino vote, it's not that it's a swing vote. It's either a, I'm not going to vote or I'm going to vote. And then maybe some people are always going to vote Republican. Like the Latino population is always going to be 30% Republican and the voting Republican. And the trick for Republicans is they just need to like shave off three to four points in order for them to really affect the election. So, you know, our job is to hold them and expand them. Talk to me about what you think Democrats could do better with the met. I mean, there's been a lot of talk about this, but I still feel like we're not quite hearing. What do you think Democrats could do better to make a case to those voters?
Well, the most important group among the Latino voters that are the swing voters are the male voters, male Latino voters. And they're very different from everybody else. You have to reach out to them. You have to talk to them about things that matter to them, which is very working class issues, making a salary, buying a home, starting a business, having security. A lot of times we don't really reach out to them. They're very hard population to reach out to. They're not watching TV. A lot of times they are working all day. So, radio is kind of the places to be. So, you just need to reach out to them way earlier. You need to talk to them about like the success of the Biden campaign. Right now, you know, Latino unemployment is the lowest it's ever been. We have the highest amount of businesses being started by Latinos in the history of this country. So, we have a lot of successes we can talk about. And we also should be talking about what we could be doing in the future, like more small business loans, helping people get by the first homes, child tax credit, all these things that I think are extremely, extremely important. And we have to recognize that they do worry about crime. A lot of us live in neighborhoods that aren't exactly what people would say are safe. And so, you need to talk to them about how, yes, we are the party that's actually been helping trying to get police back onto the streets after being fired from, after being waylaid by COVID or because like, you know, prevented cities from firing a bunch of police officers because of, you know, downturns and tax revenue. There's a lot of what we've been talking about, but we actually be reaching out to them. So, you think ultimately the sort of the way to get to those voters is to appeal to working class concerns? Yes. I mean, Latinos in general are working class. I mean, that's also the same, by the way, for African Americans and everything else. Like they're all working class and we just, we need to talk to them and, you know, buy how we would talk to any other working class people. And I don't think we're doing that. I think we think that they are somehow like white liberal adjacent removed and they're not. So, talk to me about sort of what you, when you talk to people who are Latino working class, like what are the sort of things you talk about in order to kind of sell the democratic ideas? Well, I, well, I sell bio because like I sell my bio to them. I talked about being a veteran about serving my country, about loving serving my country, about the American dream and about how everything that we do as Democrats is to further the American dream, like making college affordable, making it easier for you to start a business, making it, you know, you able to buy a home. So, like that is the key to this. Also making sure that you're talking about, you know, the contrast between the Republicans who are, you know, good support corporations versus, you know, Democrats going to support workers. And then I bring in my bio into as someone who worked his way through college and, you know, worked at me packing factories and construction sites. Like these are the things that they can kind of connect to, but not being afraid to engage really into the conversation about, you know, economics and not being afraid to say like, you know what, billionaires should be paying their, their fair share and you should be making a higher wage. Like that's okay to be having these conversations, but we, we tend for some to not tie these conversations with Latino males, which I think is short-sighted. It's funny because I think of like Biden, his whole thing is he's a working class guy, right? I mean, he's actually from a working class family as opposed to like a pretend working class guy. And Democrats ultimately, right? I mean, none, you know, these are working class things where the party is trying to get for its constituents. So it is strange that there's a disconnect where you have Republicans, people like Ted Cruz. I mean, I'm part of what we just don't talk about it. Like for example, we're bringing a freaking chip plant to Ohio, a microchip plant to Ohio. If this had happened under Trump, he would have been there every week talking about like bringing microchip industry, the industrial base back to Ohio. We don't really talk about our successes. Like this is a big, big deal. The fact that we're going to bring, you know, manufacturing, high end manufacturing back to the United States, not just Ohio, we literally should be bragging about this from the top of our lungs. And we don't, I don't know why we don't, but we really should. And that's just one area that we're missing right now. Like when I talk to Latinos about the IRA and about the bipartisan infrastructure deal, I don't actually talk about getting to the weeds. What I literally tell them is we have billions of dollars, trillions of dollars of construction jobs coming back. And it's much easier for me when I talk to Latino construction workers, when I say construction jobs, than trying to say, oh, we have some very green jobs that are sustainable, blah, blah, blah. No, just say construction jobs, right? Like the people you're talking to are not master, they're not, you know, they don't have degrees in, in, in, you know, polysci. They're very bright people. They're very motivated people. They're very innovative people. Right. But the nuance isn't important. There is no, don't even talk with new ones.
Sorry, what? Just cut, just cut to the chase. Yeah. We're bringing you jobs, better paying jobs, construction jobs, road jobs, bridges. Like we can't get into this, like we're creating the new green economy and then like be surprised when it doesn't hit with people. So I had Andrew Ross sorkin on the podcast and he was talking about what a Democratic president could do to ease inflation.
And one of the things he said was solve our immigration problem. It feels like there's a lot of like, nobody wants to deal with that, right? Like Republicans want to put all immigrants in jail or fly them around the country and use them as props. Democrats don't want to deal with it either.
Okay, that's not true either. Like, like Democrats do want to do it. Like we pass several immigration laws and they just get bottled up in the Senate because of the filibuster. So like, number one, let's not put this like this is a very, by the way, this is a very insidious trope that the Republicans use like, Oh, Democrats don't want to solve this either. No, we pass bills every F in time we have control and the Republicans use the filibuster to stop it. Right. The Republicans need immigration for them to actually be able to split our base of working class voters. So every time we do, every time we ask for any compromise, every time we do compromise, they always like change the goalposts. Right. So, you know, do you want to deal with inflation? Yeah, like partly is because we have a labor slack right now. There's not enough workers for a lot of the things we need to do. And even when we do get out of inflation, we're still not going to have enough workers and we should have a very flexible, you know, visa program to bring workers over so they don't come over illegally. But like, let's not fall in this trap like that both sides, you know, are not are not trying to solve this. No, we try to solve this all the time. The Republicans will always find a way to filibuster it. And yeah, they'll point out to one Democrat also participant in filibuster, but this is a national solution that is needed. And the Republicans are never participating in it. So what, how could Democrats get Republicans to participate in it? Honestly, it's not going to happen. Let's be clear. There's never going to be immigration reform that involves Republicans being controlled. Right. It's just not going to happen. We have to have control of the house and we have to have control of the Senate enough to overcome a filibuster or enough to get rid of the filibuster. And then we get conference immigration reform that we passed that has a pathway to citizenship, you know, brings also security to the border, brings, you know, some stability and predictability people that want to apply for, you know, for immigration visas, things of that nature work visas. And that's it. Like this obsession that Republicans are not going to take part of it. They haven't they voted literally they voted against their own bill, the bills that they've written in the past. Right. So like, give up on this idea, either we get this done on our own, or we just assume that it's never going to happen because we're not going to get Republicans on this. It's just not going to happen. When you primary in Kirsten cinema, that's a good try. Good job. Good try. So that's yes, you're not going to get me on a roll and just be like, you know, just say a random answer. This ain't my first rodeo, Molly. This ain't my first rodeo. It's worth a shot, man. It's worth a shot. Right. You shot your shot. I don't blame you. I just got to get it. I get it. Thank you so much, Ruben, for coming in the podcast.
No problem. Talk to you soon. Chief Chuck Hoskin Jr. is the principal chief of the Cherokee Nation, and Kim Teehee is the Cherokee Nation's nominee to their delegation in Congress.
Welcome to fast politics. Chief Chuck Hoskin. Hello, this is Chief Chuck Hoskin.
And welcome, Kim Teehee. Hi, good morning. This is Kim Teehee. I am super excited to have you both here. Chief Hoskin, can you explain a little bit about who you are and the group that you represent and sort of get us all up to speed? Sure. Well, I'm Chuck Hoskin, principal chief of the Cherokee Nation. That is the elected chief executive of the Cherokee Nation, we're the largest tribe in the United States. Just to get a sense of our government, we have a government that has a chief executive, of which I'm the top elected official. We have a legislative branch. We have an independent judiciary. And of course, Kim Teehee's with us. So I have a number of folks that I appoint to carry out various executive functions. And of course, hers is so exciting because it reaches back to a treaty to effectuate a right that the Cherokee people have dating back 200 years. So tell us about this treaty. Well, Kim is well versed on it, but I'll say this, the treaty that we're talking about is the Treaty of 1835. And it is a treaty that was the basis for our forced removal. A lot of your listeners may be familiar with the Trail of Tears. That's the forced removal of the Cherokee people and other tribes in the southeastern part of the United States. To our new homeland, it was a very traumatic period of time, very dark chapter in the history of the United States. So that treaty is often regarded by the Cherokee people rightfully. So as a real symbol of injustice in this country, but within it is something very powerful, which is provision that says that the Cherokee nation shall have a delegate in the House of Representatives when Congress shall make provision for the same.
Well, here we are, I said 200 years earlier, we're over 180 years later. And we are asking Congress to make provision for the same. And I have selected and our council has confirmed someone who's just perfect for it. And that's Kim Teague, who knows the treaty history and knows exactly what to do when she gets seated in the Congress. Kim, will you explain to me, this would mean that the Cherokee nation would finally have, it would just be your group alone that would be represented by this Congressperson? Yes, the treaty right is with the Cherokee nation.
As Chief mentioned, we are the largest federally recognized Indian tribe. I also want to say too that the removal treaty importantly is considered the supreme law of the land. It was ratified by the Senate and signed by the president of the United States, and it's never been abrogated. So it's been it's been confirmed as a valid treaty right. I just want to reiterate that. And the treaty right, this particular treaty right is just with the Cherokee nation. There would be no flood gates opening here. There are two other treaties that exist out there that we're aware of regarding two other tribes. But that's it. This is really interesting. So this would be the first time that even though you guys are entitled to this congressional seat, and you have been for 200 years, this would be an addition of a voting seat. At least you are entitled to it, but it would be the first kind of addition. Right. This particular treaty right, this delegate would be a non voting delegate, similar to how US territory delegates DC Guam, exactly Puerto Rico, exactly. It would be non voting. I mean, the reason that it would be non voting is because the treaty specifies it's it's a delegate. And as we know, their delegates have existed in the body of the house since the early days of the Republic. So as as non voting members, it's kind of unfair that you guys don't get voting membership in the on the for the country that you've, you know, lived in longer than anyone, you know, and I think there's something to that. But I think we should think about it this way. This is a treaty provision that was between two sovereign nations. And in the history of House of Representatives, you don't really see another sovereign nation represented in the house. So it's certainly unique in that regard. So that's one thing to think about. The other thing is this, yes, we would love for Kim to have a vote on the final passage of legislation.
But what's so important in the Congress is what happens at the committee level, what happens when legislation is introduced, that matters who is on a key committee that is making arguments and advocating for or against a measure. And Kim Teehee, of course, is well suited from her background to do all of that effectively. So for the Cherokee nation to have a champion inside of Congress, and looks, you'll be a champion for all of Indian country, I'm talking about all tribes in terms of our shared interest. That's really powerful. So, you know, my focus is more on the fact that this is a unique moment in history. It's the question of whether the United States is a country of its word. The answer has to be yes. And when the country says yes, Kim Teehee will be a really effective and powerful voice for Indian country, irrespective of whether she has that vote on final passage. So I think it's a really positive thing. When will you find out? And what are the next steps?
So we've asked for a hearing this fall, but we want more than a hearing. We want to vote.
And the process is that the House Rules Committee has jurisdiction over seating the delegate. And what's necessary is for the committee to consider a house resolution. And for the house to vote straight up and down. Seating the Cherokee nation's delegate does not require a vote in the Senate.
All that is just a vote of the House. And the reason that is, is because, as I mentioned earlier, is that our treaty was already ratified by the Senate and signed by the President of the United States. It's already the Supreme Law of the land. So it just requires a straight up and down vote in the House. If Democrats lose the House, does that make it less likely? Well, we've waited nearly 200 years and we're eager to get this done this year. And so I've built a career on working with both sides of the aisle. And we'll cross that bridge when we get there. The Supreme Court passed down this ruling about criminal prosecutions on tribal lands without the consent of tribes. How does this affect you guys? You know, that was such a powerful decision by the Supreme Court. You're referencing the McGirt decision in 2020. The question before the court was similar in a way to the question we're presenting to the Congress, which is whether the United States has to keep its word in an Indian treaty, because that's what the McGirt case was about, whether the reservations within the state of Oklahoma of five tribes, including the Cherokee Nation, had been dismantled, disestablished by the Congress. The court found that they had not, and it just reaffirmed, in fact, the first line of that case from Justice Gorsuch was, at the end of the Trail of Tears, was a promise. And that's such a powerful statement because the Trail of Tears, again, was that act of injustice by the United States. And part of that promise at the end of the Trail of Tears was that Cherokee Nation would have a delegate. So when you have the Supreme Court saying, a promise made is a promise kept in an Indian treaty, which, as Kim said, is the supreme law of the land, that really bolsters, I think, our argument that the right to a delegate is the supreme law of the land. It's a promise that ought to be kept. I think keeping this promise is absolutely inescapable if this country is to be the kind of country we want it to be. And I think all Americans would agree with that if they explored the history that Kim and I know so well. So let's talk about that for a minute because one of the things that's happened recently is that, and again, I know you guys are not partisan and life is hard enough, so I don't want you to feel like I'm asking you to be partisan. But one of the things that Ron DeSantis recently said was that it's not true that America was built on stolen land. It seems like it is true that America was built on stolen land. I heard that comment and I thought it was breathtaking in its ignorance, but here's the thing. I think that, as a well-known governor as he is, I think most of the country on a bipartisan basis doesn't see the world that way. And that's my frame of reference here in Oklahoma where we have such a wonderful working relationship with our delegation where we work on a bipartisan basis. There is still, though, some level of ignorance in this country about its history. It is true that Cherokee Nation and other tribes were here first. I mean, that's the reason that we have a relationship with the United States that's a sovereign-to-sovereign relationship. There's a reason for that because we pre-existed the United States. And we could certainly, Kim and I, take you through a long history course on the session of Cherokee Nation land, how that land was taken, and even how it was diminished after the imposition of the state of Oklahoma on our lands. But I think for most Americans, what they really find compelling is that their country ought to be a country of its word. I think most Americans think that way.
And so I'm counting on that as the House of Representatives considers seating Kim Teahe.
It's such a powerful message and so important. And I feel like there's been so much wrong done to our Native people that it just seems so profoundly like the least we could do as a country.
What to our listeners, there are people listening here who, like, what can they do to support this quest? Well, we've got a mobilization effort underway for not only our citizens, but also anyone who supports Cherokee Nation's efforts to have Congress seat the delegate, they can simply go to CherokeeDelegate.com and contact our members of Congress and tell them to seat the delegate. That's this year. That's the, I guess, biggest thing that can occur that would be helpful to us. I also want to mention too that we're not alone in this effort. We've got broad support all throughout the United States from Indian tribes and tribal organizations.
And so we are actively trying to get the delegate seated this year. And that mobilization effort and that website that I just mentioned is something that everyone can do.
Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you guys so much. Good luck. Very important. And I look forward to having you back as a Congresswoman. Thank you so much. Thank you. And now your moment of fuckery.
Rick Wilson. Yes. And so we are going to do a moment of fuckery, TM. And my moment of fuckery is when Laura Ingram said that the attack on Paul Pelosi was really, really bad and it was going to cause the left to try and come for not the second amendment, but the first.
You know, Frau Ingram is a woman of tremendous anger. I could speculate on the origins of that anger from whatever source of deprivation and pain she speaks from. But I try to not imagine her in any circumstances. But the idea that the left is going to turn this around and like have revanchist attacks on magas is insanity. And the fact is, let's not forget something, people.
A year and a half ago, the vast majority of Republicans sat and watched Trump's horde attack the US Capitol, seek out to kill and kidnap Democratic members of Congress and the Senate, beat cops with flagpoles and throw this country into absolute chaos. So the idea that the left is somehow the font of violence right now is laughable. And the idea that you spent years with Donald Trump up at every damn rally saying, knock the hell out of that guy, I'll pay for your legal bills, didn't seep into their heads. And look, it's in a more serious note. It's also taking every authority. By the way, he never paid for anybody's legal bills. I don't think Donald Trump has paid for anything in the last 50 years. Well, maybe on a more serious note, this is a culture of political violence. It is a common aspect of authoritarian regimes and movements as they become empowered. It will not stop. It will escalate. They will excuse it.
They will have try to have deniability until they don't need deniability. They will, they will, they will pretend it's, it's not about them until it's absolutely really about them, because it's really about them. I think it's going to be a tremendously challenging period of time between election day this year, which is going to be chaotic. And, you know, Republicans are going to lose elections and they're going to go into the streets and be crazy. And they're going to win elections and, you know, declare that they are now the logical choice in America must bow to their needs and desires. So I think that is a superb moment of fuckery. My moment of fuckery, I don't know if I'm not, I'm not trying to hate on Elon every single day this week, but the idea that absolute free speech on a private platform is a constitutionally protected right is as ludicrous as one can imagine. They don't want to be treated like a publisher under section 230, but they want to pretend that they get the benefits of protecting the most heinous and egregious kind of speech. And I really think he is, he did this as a prank and as a troll. I think he's part of that tech bro libertarian weird culture in the valley. And they really think that they are much smarter than the rest of America. Listen, I know what rockets are and I'm actually know some things about them. I don't build rockets. Elon builds pretty good rockets, but the idea that he understands American society at a granular level and thinks that there's going to be a public good that emerges from mainlining and mainstreaming overt racism and anti-Semitism and violence really blows me away. And I think it is, I think it is a political, a moral, and a business blind spot that will probably cost him status and money as we go forward.
I have to say what I think is so amazing about this whole thing is like he is quite rich, but he's still, he's not so rich that he can afford to lose $20 billion by making Twitter into 4chan. Well, you know, we're going to see what his business risk tolerance is for this. And we're going to see if it's a great idea to essentially take that $44 billion pile of money and set it on fire because some tech bros think that that anti-Semitism online isn't a problem and that you don't really need to moderate any kind of content on a publicly facing platform.
That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to hear the best minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.
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