The After Show: Life on the Line

Thank you for calling the Bambas Comfort Line.

Bambas make socks, slippers, tees, and underwear made with the highest quality materials.

Press one for comfort, two for style, three for donation.

You chose style.

Bombas is styles for whatever you enjoy.

You can run in bombas, lounge in bambas, dress them up, dress them down, but always give back in bombas.

Because with every item purchased, another is donated.

Bambas, comfort worth calling for.

Go to bambas.com/slash audio and use code audio for 20% off your first purchase.

That's bombbas.com and use code audio.

Hi, everybody.

I'm Deborah Roberts and welcome back to 2020 The After Show, the program where we take you behind the scenes of some of our reporting and give you kind of a look at how we put these programs together.

And today we're talking about a story that I worked on, I reported on down in Florida.

A 21-year-old mom has gone missing from her home.

She left behind at the time her two small sons, whom her family, of course, insisted she never would have left abandoned.

It's a 2020 episode called Life on the Line, and it's available right here on your podcast feed and streaming on Hulu and Disney Plus.

Producers Jeff Schneider and Denise Martinez-Ramundo worked on this case with me.

And I'm so excited to have Denise and Jeff here.

Denise, good to see you.

I think I'm going to start with you because you brought this story to me.

It was something that you, I think, discovered.

And, you know, obviously it had been a story that had happened in Florida.

As a mom, you're a mom.

I am too.

And oftentimes you and I have connected over these stories just because we're parents.

And when it is something that involves a parent, it really kind of grabs us right away.

And tell me about, for you, when you first heard about this story, a 21-year-old mom

going missing and, of course,

tragically turns out dead.

Her name turns out to be Denise, just like my name.

We actually share the same birth year.

And, you know, so you kind of hit close to home, also like reaching out, you know, here is,

you know, sharing the same name.

And what was really interesting is that as a mom, I, you know, she was taking, leaving her two young sons behind, six months and two years old.

I have young children.

So to know that she had to be taken away from them and in her mind to maybe try to protect themselves, take the harm away from them.

She was a young stay-at-home mom, a very bright young woman, Denise Amber Lee.

One of the things that we really, I thought, brought home for viewers in this case was sort of 911 calls, how it all works, why that was so urgent.

What were you thinking in terms of bringing this home to viewers?

We have a series of 911 calls that really bring this kidnapping to life, that we are experiencing and listening to it unfolding in real time.

So I think this is unlike any other story that we've seen, that we kind of can see that progression.

And I think it was really important to bring that to the viewers.

So the audio is obviously really shocking to hear, but obviously, you know, in order for that to bring home to bring it to life, I think definitely Jeff, you know, and with the video really was able to, you know, capture that.

And for folks who may not have seen the episode, and I'm telling you, you're going to want to go see the episode, but those of you who did, you'll remember that Denise Amberlee placed a 911 call from her captor's car.

She was actually taken from her home and she very cleverly was able to get his phone and to place a call to the police just sort of not obviously signaling that she was calling the police but giving enough information there it's almost like something out of a out of a TV show and and Jeff what about you and your approach to this particular story you knew the area yeah I mean and I'm also a dad so uh with two kids and I immediately when when I read the story, when I learned about the story, I put myself in Nathan's shoes.

Her husband.

You know, I just, yeah, her husband.

And I just really wanted to capture kind of what he was going through and what he was feeling.

And, you know, these locations were all so very important, like where their house was.

You know, it was in the middle of nowhere.

It was back on a tucked-in, you know, street where it felt safe, you know.

And

so that was really something that was important for me to try to get across with the visuals is just where everything took place, the relationship to each other and stuff like that.

And then, you know, also the strength of this family, you know, Sue, the mom, taking in the children in the middle of this nightmare, you know, like you mentioned, having to go, she had to go get formula because Denise was still breastfeeding.

Yeah,

there was something about that tender idea that she's still a breastfeeding mom and had to leave her children behind because she was kidnapped.

And in the story, we learn a lot about the two of them, Denise and Nathan.

They were very young when they got married.

They had these children pretty quickly.

And Nathan was a very devoted dad, working very hard.

He comes home and, you know, his wife's keys and her purse are there, but she's not to be found anywhere.

He's the first person actually to call 911 in the story.

So let's remind our listeners and let's take a listen.

Northport emergency.

Yes, I'm at Latora Avenue.

I just got home from work and my wife, I can't find her.

My kids were in the house and I don't know where she is.

I've looked every single place and I don't know.

How old are your kids, sir?

My oldest is two and my youngest is six months.

No, I know.

I don't know where mommy is.

Her vehicle is in the driveway?

Yes.

Does she have any medical conditions?

No.

Her purse is here.

I don't, her cell phone is here.

I don't.

I don't know.

I don't know.

Okay, what is your name?

Denise.

That call is just so chilling because you can hear the desperation.

You can also hear the panic in his voice.

Jeff, you talked about being a dad.

And of course, Denise, you're a parent too.

And I think for all of us, as we were going back and looking at this story, and I had an opportunity to meet her two now older sons, her father's a police officer, and we'll talk about that and her parents.

This was a hard one to report, Denise.

And I mean, even your face now, as we're watching and talking to you about it, I mean, this was a hard one, wasn't it?

Yeah, definitely.

I mean, in that 91 call, you hear even the son asking, where's mommy?

You know, my little one is starting to to talk almost getting close to the two-year-old age and you know they realize and just hearing that the panic on his voice the the little young son asking for his mom you know it's it's it was hard you know to report on it so we had covered the story back in 2008 but we didn't have her 911 call and even though it's heartbreaking and you know heart-stopping but it really shows how brave she was.

And I think it was important for us to do this story showing making our viewers listen to that 911 call to show the impact that her case has had on the 911 system going forward.

Yeah, and that became kind of a theme for us, Jeff, in this story.

We're going to examine 911 calls and operators.

And we went actually to a 911 office there to kind of find out how they work because this case would eventually change a lot in Florida when it comes to 911 cases.

We have to dig through a lot of video file reporting.

And as Denise said, this is the first time we have actually had an opportunity to broadcast this particular 911 call.

Yeah, yeah.

Both me and Denise, you know, go through all the case files that we can get our hands on.

You know, we try to get everything.

We listen to everything.

We make notes on it all.

You know, and

we're listening to everything and we're keeping all that in mind as we go out.

And I think that makes us, you know, better in the field so that we can really know what to, how to film certain things, you know, the locations and everything like that.

Yeah, especially when it's a case like this one that happened several years back, and then we try to see what we can do to bring something new to it, fresh eyes.

Well, there's so much more to this story to report and to tell you all about how we put it all together.

Denise Amber Lee and the case of the missing mom down in Florida.

We're going to talk more about it in just a moment.

We're going to take a break, so don't go anywhere.

This show is supported by Lazarus, a new thriller series from Amazon Prime Video.

In Lazarus, best-selling mystery writer Harlan Coban returns to television with a twisted tale of lies, murder, and long-buried family secrets.

The series focuses on forensic psychiatrist Dr.

Joel Lazarus, known as Laz to his friends.

When Laz first hears of his father's death, the initial theory is it was a suicide.

But the suspicious circumstances tell a different story.

Soon, Laz finds himself drawn into a world of murderous conspiracies and a race to find his father's killer.

Lazarus stars Sam Claflin as Laz and Bill Nye as his father.

It premieres October 22nd only on Prime Video.

October is the perfect time to watch a heart-pounding story of thrills and chills.

And you'll love how Lazarus blends high-octane steaks with family tensions that feel oh so real.

So curl up on the couch with a warm blanket for this action-packed thrill ride.

Don't miss Harlan Coben's Lazarus streaming October 22nd, only on Prime Video.

We are back now with Denise Martinez-Ramundo and Jeff Schneider, producers on this story with me for 2020.

They covered the Denise Amber Lee case, and it was driven by consequential 911 calls.

I want to get into all of them, but we heard that call from Nathan a little earlier.

Now, there was a call from Denise herself.

I want to play for all of us a clip from that.

Do you know this guy that's with you?

No.

You don't know him from anywhere?

No, please.

Oh, God, help me.

What is the address that you're at?

Where are we going?

I gotta go off and around house.

I'm gonna rally where?

Because it's round.

Can you see that?

North Ford L9, Sarasota just had Denise A.

Lee on the phone advising she was taken by an unknown subject.

That call was just so distressing.

What were your thoughts about how much of it to play and

whether even to play it?

We gave it a lot of thought to that.

In our previous reporting, we had her dad and ourselves describing the call.

I mean after listening to the call I think we felt it was important for us to for the viewer to hear how brave she was and how she handled herself in that situation.

It was really important you know in her 911 call that she's relaying in critical information about um you know about the person who has her you know he's saying like i don't know you please take me back home she says take me back home to my house in latour trying to give you know dispatchers information about, you know, where her home is so she could identify her.

They could identify hopefully him.

And that was really critical because they will eventually use that information and they will convict him later on.

Yeah, it was so amazing to me.

I mean, this is a 21-year-old woman.

Her father was a police officer, so she had some smarts about, I guess, the law and maybe even just about, you know, trying to figure out a way to get herself out of this, but that she had the presence of mind, even in the middle of all that fear,

to throw out these little breadcrumbs to police.

And also, too, of course, to try to plead with this abductor.

But then another call came through that actually helped identify who her actual killer was.

Let's take a listen to that call.

I just got a call from my dad, and his cousin came over to his house with a girl in the car, and she was tied up.

He borrowed a shovel, a gas tank, and something else.

What's the cousin driving?

A green Camaro?

What's the cousin's name?

Mikey King.

Put out a bolo to FHP2, please, for a dark green Camaro.

Who's he saying is driving that Camaro?

Michael King.

Oh my gosh, I think for all of us, this was not only upsetting, but maybe even infuriating when you think about this young woman is missing.

Every second counts.

This young girl calls because her father didn't call, and she gives police a little bit of information.

And this is the first time we actually hear a name, Michael King, and that was critical, Jeff, right?

It was.

And, you know when we talked with the police and the detectives they had said that Denise's call when they got the 911 call from Denise they started to trace it and then they got this other call

from

that girl that we just heard and that they had a name and then they eventually got the name back from the

phone that they were tracing from Denise's 911 call and it matched up and both you know it's was Michael King so they knew they had their guy and

it was just you know, you talk about the research that we were doing when we first started this.

You know, we tried to dig into who was this guy?

Who is Michael King?

Yeah,

what was his connection to Denise Amber Lee, which was nothing.

Which was nothing.

And there was, you know, we couldn't find any criminal background with him.

And so that randomness just made this even more chilling.

Yeah, Denise, I think that's what got me the randomness because we do so many of these stories and oftentimes we kind of see it coming, right?

It's either the spouse or a relative or some disgruntled, you know, employee or worker with someone.

But in this case, it's just one of those things, those random crimes that all of us fear.

That's what makes it

this case really, really scary because it's somebody random, somebody that had no connection whatsoever to her.

And, you know, somebody who turned out to be a father, you know, he had a young son.

Yeah.

And, you know, his most recent girlfriend had said that she was shocked as everybody else to hear that it was him and that she would never have imagined that he would be capable to do something like this.

Yeah.

As I said, the 911 calls played such a role.

Denise makes a call.

This young woman makes a call.

And then there's another call that comes in that could have changed everything.

A woman named Jane Kowalski, who you had me meet, Denise, and I drove along with her so she could point out to me where she was driving.

She happened to be in town on her way to go visit a relative.

And she saw a car with someone banging on the back window in the car and and she said she was on the phone with her sister and she could hear this screaming it was almost like a kid's voice she couldn't make it out and she knew something was wrong she could see that this guy was driving and this person was banging very very frantically let's take a listen to this one they kept banging on the window and screaming and not a happy scream like get me out of here scream He just turned on total right.

I don't know if I can catch up.

There's a bunch of traffic and I can't get over.

Oh boy.

You can't get more specific than that.

This woman is giving all this detail in real time.

She's telling them where she is.

I mean, I think all of our jaws just dropped.

Denise, let's talk about how you found Jane.

You brought her to Florida.

I got a chance to get in the car.

Jeff, you were shooting

to talk to her about how this all played out for her.

And she was a very interesting woman, very strong woman who felt very strongly about trying to do the right thing.

She even wanted to follow the car, but they lost her after a while.

She was like trying to do her part as a citizen yeah i mean i mean it was it's always really important for us to be able to go back and find those people that are so key to the story i mean obviously jane saw something that in her mind looked like a kidnapping and and you know i think it was really important for to to have you right with her so she can really point you know i'm in this lane he's crossing over i mean i think to be able to really capture that and i and understand it from herself i mean i mean you saw she even showed you how how loud the the banging on the window was.

I mean, that was, it was quite something such that she really knew somebody was in trouble.

And so, I mean, I think it's really, you know, unfortunately, you know, you know, her call comes to the dispatch center where actually her, you know, the agency where Denise's father works for.

So it was people there that obviously really care about Denise.

And of course, you know, what was so upsetting was that we learned that there was a snap voo in the 911 call center, which just complicated this story all the more.

Ultimately, sadly, very sadly in this case, Denise's body was found.

Well, we talked about Denise's sons who are now young men, almost grown men,

and we had a chance to meet them and to talk with them.

They're very, very amazing young men.

We're going to share some extended moments for my interview with them when we come back.

So stay with us.

The show is supported by Acorns Early, the smart way to teach kids about money.

Piggy banks are cute and great for those loose quarters, but they don't teach the financial literacy lessons that kids need in the modern world.

Acorns Early makes it easy to teach kids lifelong money skills they can actually use.

It's a smart debit card and money app designed to teach kids money skills as they grow up.

For little kids, start with the in-app chores tracker to teach your kids the value of a dollar.

Then, kids can set a savings goal and spend what they've earned with their very own customizable debit card to give them that extra sense of independence.

And with Acorns Early's spending limits and real-time purchase notifications, parents always stay in control.

Ready to teach your kids the smart way to earn, save, and spend?

Get your first month on Acorns when you head to acornsearly.com slash 20 or download the Acorns Early app.

That's one month free when you sign up at AcornsEarly.com slash 20.

Spelled out T-W-E-N-T-Y.

AcornsEarly.com slash 20.

Acorns Early Card is issued by Community Federal Savings Bank member FDIC pursuant to license by MasterCard International.

Free trial for new subscribers only, subscription fees starting at $5 per month unless canceled.

Terms apply at acorns.com/slash early terms.

You buy a pair of socks, that's two socks.

You buy a pair of Bombus socks, that's four socks.

Because one purchased is one donated.

Socks are the number one most requested clothing item in homeless shelters.

So when you buy a pair of super comfortable Bombus socks, you're also donating a pair.

Bombus customers have powered over 150 million donations.

So Bombus would like to thank you 150 million times, but we only have like 30 seconds.

Go to bombus.com and use code audio for 20% off your first purchase.

That's B-O-M-B-A-S.com and use code audio at checkout.

We are back now with producers Jeff Schneider and Denise Martinez-Ramundo talking about our recent 2020 Life on the Line, a heartbreaking and chilling story about a 21-year-old young mom of two who went missing and was later found dead.

And we kind of take you through all the twists and turns now of this story, but also the 911 calls that played such such a key role in this case and sadly led to a delay in police being able to track down Denise.

We also went to those detectives who were on this case and Chris Morales was one of them.

He was the lead detective on the Denise Amberlee case.

Jeff, talk to us a little bit about that because we had to not only track him down, but take him back to these locations of where this all played out.

And it's a story that he hasn't forgotten either.

No, and you know, after this case, he wanted to figure out out what they could do better, how they could improve, how they could not have this happen again.

And he spearheaded this real-time intelligence center.

And when we went and talked with him and sat him down to interview him, you know, he took us into the intelligence center and we just felt like this is where we need to talk to him.

Well, let's take a listen to what he told us.

What's behind me here is our real-time intelligence center.

There's over 150 pieces of intelligent equipment that's placed throughout our city.

I can tell you right now, if we were able to take all of this behind me and go back in time and implement it into 2008, I strongly believe in my heart that we would have had Denise Amberlee.

I also had an opportunity, which was pretty amazing, was to talk to her sons, Adam and Noah.

One of them had just graduated from high school.

The other one is a chef.

And they were really pretty amazing to talk to.

Denise.

Yeah, I mean, one thing when I started working on the story, I mean, I realized the six-month-old and the two-year-old are probably teenagers now.

I want to hear from them.

I want to know how this, you know,

what life has been for them.

You know, obviously, their mom was taken away from them when they were so young.

And, you know, and you know, we'll talk about like how their dad has gone on to speak about her mom's story.

But I wanted to hear from them.

And I think it was very

moving.

And I think they were very eloquent.

And

they say themselves, they say you never, you usually don't get to hear about, you know, like the kids, you know, from like kind of the impact that it has on them.

And I think that was really, really moving to hear what they have to say.

Adam and Noah were talking to us for the first time publicly about this case.

And we have a bonus clip from our interview.

So let's take a listen.

When you think about the two of you now, having grown up, you had each other.

Did that create a special bond between the two of you?

Yeah.

You know, even as we take our separate paths in life, that keeps us bonded forever, you know.

Knowing that he was going through the same thing definitely

helped me.

There is a monument in the park

that is basically a tribute to your mom.

Do you spend any time there?

I still make an effort to visit and to kind of say my peace.

you know, almost like she's there.

If I don't go there, I go to the cemetery.

So you feel some connection to her?

I used to wear

a cross on one of my necklaces.

I uh

I left it there with her.

At the cemetery.

Just a part of me with her.

Because

I'll always have a part of her with me.

And I do my best to carry her with me everywhere I go.

Do you feel on some level that you kind of know her even though you don't remember her?

All these stories and you know everything I hear, you know, she's still been a perfect mother despite her not being here.

I always try to dedicate a part of

my success to her.

Without her,

you know, what would I be?

You know?

I have to tell you, this was very hard for me sitting across from these two young men.

I mean, you could hear Noah weeping there and just, oh my, even just listening to it again now, powerful words from these two.

And it was interesting to hear them talking about, you know, visiting her and the jewelry.

And, of course, having talked to Denise's husband, who now has been remarried, Nathan, but who still so clearly carries

a lot of pain having lost Denise.

Nathan, though, one of the things that I just thought was so remarkable, Denise, was that Nathan had given Denise a ring when they first started dating.

Not a very expensive ring, but it was like a little heart.

It was for Valentine's Day.

She was wearing that ring when she was

abducted and she smartly left the ring behind in the car to give police a clue.

And he actually got that ring back not long before we did this interview.

And Denise, that was really pretty remarkable.

Yeah, when I reached out to him about doing the story,

he had mentioned to me that just a few months ago, he had gotten that ring back.

You know, Michael King's appeals had all been exhausted, so he was able to get this piece of jewelry back which again it was so special he said that it wasn't expensive but it became one of her priceless possessions and she left it in that car because she knew that Nathan would be able to identify it

so getting it back was very special for him yeah and and just a remarkable man himself Jeff I mean he has dedicated his life now to speaking out about 911 and how laws changed in Florida and other parts of the country where where they've strengthened the protocol for 911 calls.

You know, I actually attended one of the events where Nathan was telling Denise's story to a bunch of people that work in the 911 field and I talked with the people after the people that were attending and Her story, him telling her story, really made a difference, really impacted them.

And, you know, it also impacted me.

You know, I'm not going to forget this, you know, and I think that it's just really amazing.

Again, I think I said the strength of this family was so important, and just the way that they've turned their tragedy, you know, into action is just

remarkable.

Yeah, pain into purpose, as we see in so many of these episodes.

Well, guys, you brought it home in such a remarkable way, in such a powerful way.

Denise and Jeff, so well done on the piece, and thank you so much for being with us today.

Thank you, Deborah.

Thanks, Deborah.

See you soon, I'm sure.

I'm John Quiñones.

Vanessa Guillen, a 20-year-old soldier, vanishes while on duty at an Army base in Texas.

Her family demands answers.

How can she go missing on a military base?

That's too ridiculous.

The search goes on for months.

Where is Vanessa?

And a dark story starts to unfold.

She told her family that she was being sexually harassed and wasn't reporting it out of fear of retribution and retaliation.

What investigators finally uncover is horrifying.

Find out how one soldier, a beloved sister and daughter, ignited a movement and sparked a reckoning in the U.S.

military.

Listen to Vanished, What Happened to Vanessa, a new series from ABC Audio in 2020.

Listen now wherever you get your podcasts.

20th Century Studios presents a legendary movie of that.

Springsteen, Deliver Me from Nowhere.

Translate Gus.

Maybe we were born.

You're right.

That's it.

That's the sound.

It's a story you want to tell.

Translators.

See the movie that's being called the best film of the year.

Think we got that.

Yeah, we got that one.

Springsteen, Deliver Me from Nowhere.

Ready PG-13.

Parental guidance suggested for children under 13.

Experience it in IMAX.

Hall meet theaters October 24th.

Get tickets now.