The Hand in the Window: 'Be On the Lookout'

Speaker 1 This is Deborah Roberts. I'm here with another weekly episode of our latest series from 2020 and ABC Audio, The Hand in the Window.

Speaker 2 Remember, you can get new episodes early if you follow The Hand in the Window for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or your favorite podcast app.

Speaker 1 Now, here's the episode.

Speaker 3 Chronic spontaneous urticaria, or chronic hives with no known cause. It's so unpredictable.
It's like playing pinball.

Speaker 3 Itchy red bumps start on my arm, then my back,

Speaker 3 sometimes my legs. Hives come out of nowhere

Speaker 3 and it comes and goes. But I just found out about a treatment option at treatmyhives.com.

Speaker 6 Take that, chronic hives.

Speaker 3 Learn more at treatmyhives.com.

Speaker 7 At 43, Stacey Stanley was a grandma with a punk rock look.

Speaker 7 She wore her hair short and spiky, and she often donned a studded leather choker necklace or a black and white bandana. Stacy had the music taste to match her look.

Speaker 7 Classic rock was her favorite, and she was not shy about performing it at karaoke.

Speaker 7 Her sister Gina Stanley says her go-to songs were Leonard Skynyrd's Freebird and Sweet Child of Mine by Guns N' Roses.

Speaker 8 Sweet Child of Mine. I actually had a video of her singing it when we were kids.
I was videotaping her singing it.

Speaker 7 Gina shared the video with ABC News. In this home video, a teenage Stacy with dark, very high-volume hair holds a microphone and belts with confidence in her living room.

Speaker 7 Reminds me of childhood memories where everything

Speaker 7 was as fresh

Speaker 7 Stacy and her sister Gina were just 11 months apart in age.

Speaker 8 We grew up to be very close.

Speaker 7 What was Stacy like?

Speaker 8 She was one of the most kindest people you would ever meet, do anything for anybody,

Speaker 8 was like the major part of our family that brought everybody together, had made big dinners and stuff for holidays and stuff like that.

Speaker 7 Gina told me Stacy was the glue that held the family together. She was very close with her two sons, Corey and Curtis.
Corey, how would you describe her?

Speaker 9 Very loving and caring, you know, give the shirt off her back if she needed to. Very good mother.
Couldn't ask for a better one.

Speaker 10 Curtis?

Speaker 11 Always there for her kids, calling you consistently. You know, if you didn't pick up, she'd call you like a thousand times.
Like you put it on mute, and then your wife would get the calls.

Speaker 11 And like, your mom's calling for what?

Speaker 11 To talk to you.

Speaker 7 Stacy lived in Greenwich, Ohio, about 20 minutes from Ashland.

Speaker 7 She didn't seem to have anything in common with Jane Doe, who was kidnapped in the town, or with Elizabeth Griffith, who had recently gone missing from Ashland.

Speaker 7 But on September 8th, 2016, Stacey Stanley drove into Ashland to run some errands, and she never returned home.

Speaker 7 From ABC Audio in 2020, I'm John Quinones, and this is The Hand in the Window, episode 3.

Speaker 7 Be on the lookout.

Speaker 7 Stacy Stanley headed to the Walmart in Ashland for top and gardening supplies. While she was in town, she also got her nails done.

Speaker 7 When she stopped for gas on the way home, she realized she'd been driving on a flat tire.

Speaker 7 She called her sons for help.

Speaker 7 Curtis says she was frantic and annoyed. After all, she had just gotten a new tire.

Speaker 11 She called us a thousand times, so I picked up and I'm like, what's up, mom? She's like, oh, I got a flat tire. I said, okay, well, let me call you back and me and Corey will figure something out.

Speaker 7 Curtis and Corey got in touch with a family friend who was in Ashland that evening. And they arranged for him to swing by the gas station to help with Stacey's tire.

Speaker 9 And I called her back. I said, hey, we got somebody that's going to come down, help you change a tire.
He'll be there shortly. And her whole demeanor changed.

Speaker 9 She was like all happy, giggly, like her normal self. You know, she was laughing on the the phone.
And I said, well,

Speaker 9 she's like, some nice guy stopped to help, but you don't have no tools. And I then told her to tell him, you know, kick rocks.
We, you know, we got somebody coming to help you.

Speaker 7 Kick rocks, meaning get lost.

Speaker 7 Curtis says his mom had a tendency to trust people. She'd give strangers rides all the time.

Speaker 11 I'm like, you got to quit doing that because some, you can't trust everybody. Everybody's not the right person to trust.

Speaker 7 But But in this case, everything seemed to turn out fine. At first, the stranger used the tools the family friend had brought to change the tire.

Speaker 7 And that was that.

Speaker 9 I had talked to my mom about, must have been about 20 minutes later or so, that she was in the gas station getting a couple coffees, cappuccinos to be exact, and that she was going to go home and she'll call me in the morning.

Speaker 9 And she's like, all right, Wayne, I love you. It's the nickname she always called me.
And I said, all right, mom, I love you. I'll talk to you tomorrow.
And that was the last we ever heard from her.

Speaker 7 The next day, Corey went to work, as usual. But later that evening, he realized he hadn't heard from his mom.

Speaker 9 I tried calling her. I was ringing like a busy tone.
So at that time, I called my brother. I said, hey, have you heard from mom today?

Speaker 9 And he said, no. I said, try calling her.
I can't get a hold of her. He tried calling her.
I worked the rest of that evening. And then I called my aunt.
I'm like, hey, we haven't heard from mom.

Speaker 9 Do you know what's going on? And she's like, no, we should go down there. So we ended up going to my mom's trailer.

Speaker 7 No one answered when they knocked, and the door was locked. So Stacy's sons and her sister ended up forcing the door open.

Speaker 9 And she had two little dogs, Chaco and Maya. She loved them, little dogs, little Chihuahuas.

Speaker 7 The two Chihuahuas were still in their kennels. It was clear that Stacy had not been home to let them out.

Speaker 8 We just knew that she wouldn't just leave those dogs home by theirself like that.

Speaker 9 There's no way. She loved them dogs so much.
And at that point, we kind of knew something was wrong.

Speaker 7 Stacy's family began looking for her and her car.

Speaker 7 What had happened on her way home from the gas station?

Speaker 8 Me and Corey was going to go drive the routes from Ashland to Greenwich to check to see if there was any accidents or maybe she was down in a ravine or something like that.

Speaker 9 Maybe she had fell asleep and wrecked her car and nobody just had noticed it.

Speaker 7 They didn't find her car or any signs of car accidents along the route. So they reported Stacy missing to the police.

Speaker 9 The Huron County County sheriffs had put out a bolo to be on the lookout.

Speaker 7 Stacy's family kept doing their own digging, too. Corey Stanley went back to the gas station to see if any of the employees had seen anything.

Speaker 7 They remembered Stacy, but didn't know she left with anyone.

Speaker 9 After that, we went down to the police station to try to see if they got any kind of news or anything. And while we were speaking to them,

Speaker 9 it came across the radio that they had somebody had reported her car on East 9th Street in Ashland.

Speaker 7 The caller said Stacy's car was parked on the side of the road, just a few streets over from the abandoned houses on Culvert Court. By this point, Stacy had been missing for three days.

Speaker 9 We beat the cops over to the car. The cops ended up showing up there, and my brother opened the door up and got in the car and was looking for, you know, in the car for something.

Speaker 7 Curtis realized the driver's seat was all the way back.

Speaker 11 My mom was short, so it didn't make sense why the seat was back. So then I started digging around a little bit more and I seen that her

Speaker 11 driver's license was not in

Speaker 11 her purse. I'm like, okay, that's odd, you know, like, why is that out?

Speaker 7 When Corey looked inside the car, he noticed something else was off. He picked up her ashtray.

Speaker 9 My mom smoked roly cigarettes. She rolled her own.
It was cheaper that way.

Speaker 9 And I just opened it up and I happened to see a camel-filtered cigarettes in there. And I was like, these aren't my mom's.
My mom don't smoke these. I know my mom will not spend money on cigarettes.

Speaker 9 It's alarming because now we're figuring this was my mom driving a car and these aren't her cigarette buttons. So somebody else was in this car.

Speaker 7 Stacy's family kept searching for her. After crisscrossing Ashland and the roads leading to Greenwich, they got a group of volunteers together.

Speaker 11 You had a good 70 or 80 of us walking the streets handing out flyers. Like I had printed off like almost 2,000 or 3,000 flyers.

Speaker 9 We're searching dumpsters and anything just to try to,

Speaker 9 you know, because something, obviously, we knew something had happened, but we didn't know what.

Speaker 7 One evening, some of the volunteers even went up to the abandoned houses on Culvert Court.

Speaker 11 Beating on the door,

Speaker 11 realizing it was an empty house, I was going to go in there, but it was so late at night that we all had kids and we had to go get up the next morning and take a kid to school.

Speaker 11 Then we went right back out there to do it again.

Speaker 7 Stacy's family didn't know that one of these run-down houses near the laundromat

Speaker 7 was not actually empty. And they didn't know that the disappearance of their beloved mom, grandmother, and sister was just one event event in a new disturbing trend in Ashland, Ohio.

Speaker 7 About three weeks earlier, 29-year-old Elizabeth Griffith had gone missing.

Speaker 7 And on September 11th, three days after Stacy was last seen at the gas station, Jane Doe was held captive and assaulted inside one of those abandoned houses by the laundromat.

Speaker 7 In a matter of weeks, Ashland had become the site of a kidnapping and two disappearances.

Speaker 7 At the Ashland police station, Detective Kim Major was trying to figure out what was going on in Ashland. She'd started by speaking with Jane Doe.

Speaker 7 Her next task, interviewing Jane Doe's kidnapper.

Speaker 7 What did he have to say for himself?

Speaker 7 And could he be connected to the missing women?

Speaker 15 Coming to Disney Plus in Hulu. Cassidy, get us home.

Speaker 4 Jonas, brother, you got it.

Speaker 15 It'll be the best Jonas Christmas ever.

Speaker 12 Can't wait to see you guys. We love you.

Speaker 10 If they can only make it home.

Speaker 9 What's going on? Our tour plane burned?

Speaker 16 No. We cannot miss Christmas.

Speaker 18 You lost all three of your passports?

Speaker 12 It's Christmas. Anything can happen, right?

Speaker 15 A very Jonas Christmas movie now streaming on Disney Plus and Hulu with a TBPG DL.

Speaker 15 Two rings, surrounded by a steel cage.

Speaker 15 You want to play games?

Speaker 15 We're going to play games.

Speaker 15 Oh, my God, are you kidding me? This is going to be a war.

Speaker 7 Stream Survivor Series War Games, November 29th at 7 Eastern on the ESPN app.

Speaker 4 Give it up for Chicago.

Speaker 16 Sebastian Maniscalco's new stand-up special, It Ain't Right, is coming to Hulu on November 21st.

Speaker 4 30 years ago, Jeff Bezos, complete nerd. Bezos now ripped to shreds on his super yacht, and the boxes keep coming.

Speaker 16 Sebastian Maniscalco, It Ain't Right, premieres November 21st, streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

Speaker 10 An all-new season of The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives is now streaming on Hulu.

Speaker 6 Mom Talk started as a sisterhood, and that's gone to flames. New secrets and lies are coming out.
This is going to be catastrophic.

Speaker 17 We're fighting for our marriages, and the girls are just putting us through hell. They make everything about themselves.

Speaker 5 I can't.

Speaker 6 Hopefully, this doesn't end in a bloodbath.

Speaker 10 Watch the Hulu original, The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

Speaker 12 Audiences and top critics are celebrating. Rental Family is the perfect feel-good movie of the year.

Speaker 5 What do you need me for?

Speaker 12 We need a talking white guy. Academy Award winner Brendan Fraser delivers a masterful performance.

Speaker 1 This girl needs a father.

Speaker 15 I hate you. She hates me.

Speaker 12 It's worth being a parent. Yes.
In this tender and funny film about the importance of connection.

Speaker 5 This is amazing. It's cool, but it's fake.

Speaker 10 Sometimes it's okay to pretend.

Speaker 5 Rental Family, only in theaters Friday.

Speaker 12 Ready to PG-13. Maybe inappropriate for children under 13.

Speaker 7 During Detective Kim Major's interview with Jane Doe, she got a detailed account of how Sean Great had lured Jane into the abandoned house, held her captive, and raped her.

Speaker 7 When the interview with Jane ended, Detective Major thought her work was done.

Speaker 7 But When she stepped out of her office, the police captain told her that Sean Great was not offering much information so far.

Speaker 7 The captain wanted Detective Major, an expert interviewer, to see if she could get Great

Speaker 7 to open up. And he wanted Major to ask Great about more than just his alleged crimes against Jane Doe.

Speaker 18 While you're in there, see if he knows anything about the missing girls.

Speaker 7 The missing girls, 29-year-old Elizabeth Griffith, who we told you about in the last episode, and 43-year-old Stacey Stanley, whose sons had been searching for her for days.

Speaker 7 Detective Major was surprised to hear Stacy's name. She knew that Jane Doe, Elizabeth Griffith, and Sean Great all spent time at the Croc Center in town.

Speaker 7 But Detective Major was not aware of any possible link between Stacy Stanley and Sean Great.

Speaker 7 The investigation unfolding in front of Detective Major kept getting bigger and bigger. But it seemed like one person, Sean Great, might hold the answers.

Speaker 7 Detective Major typically liked to prepare before interviews, especially ones as high stakes

Speaker 7 as this one.

Speaker 18 I might do a little bit of history to try to get a baseline. Maybe I'll try to type somebody's personality or find out what matters to them.
It can help you with

Speaker 18 maybe changing gears in an interview because they're so dynamic. In his case, I knew nothing.
So my goal was to walk.

Speaker 7 You didn't have a lot of time to

Speaker 18 walk down the hall because you always run that risk of somebody shutting down. So there is no time.
There's no time to go in a room and do history. There's no time to make 10 phone calls.

Speaker 7 You're figuring him out as you go.

Speaker 9 Yeah.

Speaker 7 The room Sean Great was being held in was not at all like Detective Major's office with its plants and soothing colors.

Speaker 7 Sean Great was instead seated in a standard interrogation room with bare walls and stark lighting.

Speaker 18 Date September 13th, 2016, time 10:53 a.m. Detective Major preparing to interview Sean.

Speaker 7 Your initial impression of his appearance?

Speaker 18 He was shirtless, so his physique, he's muscular.

Speaker 18 His eyes, they're just as people describe them later. They're blue and piercing.

Speaker 7 Angry, upset?

Speaker 18 Almost neutral initially. He had been angry, I knew, prior to me coming in, but when I saw him, when we made eye contact and I came in the room, he was sort of neutral.

Speaker 18 I could see him looking at me, just wondering how to take me.

Speaker 7 Detective Major had a strategy for putting people accused of crimes at ease.

Speaker 7 She was deliberate about everything she did in an interview.

Speaker 18 I'm hyper-aware of how the room is set up. I don't interview at the table in between someone.
I might be at the corner of the table, but I'm face-to-face with someone.

Speaker 18 So in his case, he was handcuffed.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 18 I can't get a confession with somebody in handcuffs. So, those came off.

Speaker 7 Why?

Speaker 7 Well,

Speaker 18 I talk with my hands. So, do a lot of people.
So, those nuances in an interview are how you pick up on something that's different than somebody's constant.

Speaker 18 And then, when you see something that varies from that,

Speaker 18 you know there's something going on there.

Speaker 7 But out of his handcuffs, he could attack you.

Speaker 18 He could.

Speaker 7 He could. You weren't thinking about that.

Speaker 18 I have a flaw, so I'm going to just air it right here. I have a flaw where I am focused on what I need to get, and

Speaker 18 my safety sometimes doesn't even come to mind.

Speaker 7 Hi, Sean.

Speaker 18 I'm good, Major. Nice to meet you.

Speaker 18 We're going to get these cuffs off here.

Speaker 7 After she took his handcuffs off, Detective Major asked Great if he'd like anything to drink. He said he wanted coffee, and she asked an officer to bring some in.

Speaker 7 Major had learned that building rapport with a suspect and showing them empathy could get them to open up.

Speaker 7 So she chose to speak with Great in a gentle tone.

Speaker 18 All right, Lauderdale, you're going through a lot, okay?

Speaker 7 A whole lot.

Speaker 7 There was a camera in the room so that other officers could watch and listen, but that camera went down during the interview. So the audio you're hearing is from Detective Major's backup recorder.

Speaker 18 I had dropped it down my top and it's not something I even tell generally would tell people, but it's just my backup.

Speaker 18 And in this case, it became the primary recording, so you can hear my heartbeat on there.

Speaker 7 Once Detective Major and Sean Grate settled in, she told Gray she had just talked to Jane Doe about what happened to her in that abandoned house on Culvert Court.

Speaker 18 I want to kind of go through what she said and see what we're missing, okay?

Speaker 18 It looks like, you know, you have a conscience. You have some feelings.
I can see that. I saw you tear up when I came in.

Speaker 18 So.

Speaker 18 Yeah, that's rough. When you ask me, you have to go through things.

Speaker 18 Like,

Speaker 18 yeah, I am going through things.

Speaker 7 Grade explained that by going through things, he meant not having anywhere to to live. He said Ashlyn's homeless shelter was shut down, and that's why he was staying in the abandoned house.

Speaker 14 So it really is all Ashlyn's fault for everything that I've done.

Speaker 18 That's frustrating. I think sometimes it's like the perfect storm.

Speaker 18 You're here in Ashland, you don't have a place to go,

Speaker 18 you end up...

Speaker 18 being in an abandoned house, which

Speaker 18 is

Speaker 18 is, you know, you're always looking over off your shoulder whenever somebody's going to show up here, and you're in someplace you're not supposed to be.

Speaker 18 So, when you say it's Ashlyn's fault, well, we can't blame that, but you know what?

Speaker 18 Sometimes we are where we are because of all these little things that are going wrong around us.

Speaker 7 Detective Major told Sean Great that investigators already knew what he had done to Jane Doe. Now, they wanted to understand why he abducted and assaulted her.
Great traced things back to his mom.

Speaker 18 Why did she leave?

Speaker 14 She had to go find herself.

Speaker 18 I'm sorry. That's hard.
It doesn't really matter. I'm used to it.

Speaker 7 Well, I don't know that you are.

Speaker 18 You're going through everything.

Speaker 18 You're still a human. You know what I mean?

Speaker 7 Sean Great started crying. Detective Major tried to comfort him.
She said that being honest about what he'd done to Jane Doe was the right thing to do.

Speaker 7 She started asking him questions about her.

Speaker 7 Great said Jane Doe was very Christian, knew the Bible well, and did not believe in sex outside of marriage.

Speaker 7 But he also told Detective Major that he believed Jane Doe needed to have sex to push past her lustful desires. She's just battling all the time.

Speaker 14 She's been battling with the lustful desires and it's a roadblock of actually.

Speaker 18 Did you think by

Speaker 18 you doing what you did to her that it would push her past that? I mean, I'm not.

Speaker 14 I know. I am overboard.
I think overboard.

Speaker 18 Overboard, yeah, overboard. It did get overboard.

Speaker 7 Detective Major pointed out that he had held Jane Doe captive for days.

Speaker 14 Time was just going too fast.

Speaker 18 Meaning you wanted to

Speaker 18 keep her there and do it another time. Meaning, have sex with her again?

Speaker 14 Just spending time with her, that I wouldn't be able to spend time with her for a long time.

Speaker 7 Major also pointed out out that Jane Doe was injured all over her body. Great tried to justify that by saying he gave her a few little taps.

Speaker 18 And I didn't know what to do so you thought if i hit her she'll snap out of it and sub and submit

Speaker 18 she didn't still submit

Speaker 18 you got more and more out of him that's right he just kept coming out in layers a little bit more and a little bit more

Speaker 7 detective major and sean great have been talking for almost 40 minutes she knew she had to tread carefully She needed a full, clear confession.

Speaker 18 Time is always of the essence. I'm against the clock to get them to say something before I say the wrong thing and cause them to stop talking at all.

Speaker 7 So far, Grayt had spent a lot of the interview downplaying what he had done to Jane Doe or trying to justify it.

Speaker 18 Do you think this will impact her for a long time?

Speaker 18 Did it clear her emotional thoughts?

Speaker 18 She'd be able to move on and and stay focused now.

Speaker 7 Detective Major tried to get Sean Gray to move beyond attempting to justify what he had done. Her tone remained calm, even as she began asking more pointed questions.

Speaker 18 Do you think that that is good for her to have somebody force themselves to have sex with you?

Speaker 18 Is that good or not good?

Speaker 18 It's not good. Okay.

Speaker 18 So you think she needed to have sex with somebody, but

Speaker 18 do you think she needed to be forced into sex?

Speaker 18 Be honest.

Speaker 14 She needed to do that because she wasn't going to do it herself because it's so wrong.

Speaker 14 She needed to be free from that.

Speaker 18 But tying her up and forcing her into sex is not

Speaker 7 free.

Speaker 18 Tie her up when you leave to keep her from leaving.

Speaker 12 Yeah.

Speaker 12 Okay.

Speaker 18 But you're five times as strong as her, am I right?

Speaker 7 Is that right or wrong?

Speaker 18 That's kind of a given, right?

Speaker 18 So

Speaker 18 she doesn't have the option of not. She tried to fight you off.

Speaker 14 I mean,

Speaker 18 looking at this whole thing,

Speaker 18 you forced her to have sex. She didn't want to.

Speaker 7 Sean Gray did not have a defense this time. Detective Major's Major's questions seemed to have worn him down.
He became very quiet and said,

Speaker 7 I abducted her. I raped her.

Speaker 7 Finally, Great had confessed. I abducted her.
I raped her. He also admitted to strangling her, threatening to kill her.
giving her drugs to sedate her, and using his phone to record the assault.

Speaker 7 It had taken 47 minutes of disciplined interrogation, but Detective Major had gotten what she needed.

Speaker 18 Earlier in my career, I probably would have stopped right at Jane Doe. I would have walked out of the room and maybe did some high-fives with people that I got a confession.

Speaker 7 But police suspected this case was bigger than Jane Doe. Detective Major needed to find out if Great knew anything about the two other women, both still missing, Elizabeth Griffith and Stacey Stanley.

Speaker 18 So you have a conscience, do you agree?

Speaker 18 Yes. You think your life's over.
You think you say you died a long time ago, meaning probably you're solo or emotionally, you feel like you're dead.

Speaker 9 Yeah, I died on the cross with Jesus.

Speaker 7 Detective Major started by mentioning Elizabeth Griffith, the 29-year-old Great had met at the Croc Center.

Speaker 18 We can't find Elizabeth. Can you help me?

Speaker 7 I don't know if I can help you.

Speaker 18 Why?

Speaker 18 This might be one of those moments. This might be your moment.

Speaker 18 To do the right thing.

Speaker 14 To do the right thing, Sean.

Speaker 18 The right thing is to tell us where she is.

Speaker 14 Great stayed quiet.

Speaker 7 Detective Major kept pushing gently.

Speaker 18 And that goes on for

Speaker 18 just so long, long enough that he's acting like he has no idea what I'm talking about. And I'm trying to put value in what he's saying, and I'm thinking he may not know where she is.

Speaker 18 You almost feel like you're on the outside of yourself looking in.

Speaker 18 So I have to like check my ego and say, Okay, I'm going to go for it.

Speaker 7 She kept asking Sean Gray to tell her where Elizabeth could be.

Speaker 18 Can you take me to her?

Speaker 14 You found her.

Speaker 7 I haven't found her.

Speaker 7 Detective Major kept assuring Gray that they really had not found Elizabeth Griffith, that they needed his help.

Speaker 18 I'm looking for Elizabeth's body. Can you take me to it?

Speaker 7 So you she's dead?

Speaker 18 I believe she is.

Speaker 7 Hey.

Speaker 18 I mean, listen to me.

Speaker 18 This is your moment.

Speaker 14 Is it my moment?

Speaker 18 I believe it is.

Speaker 18 My moment is when I die.

Speaker 14 Once I'm put in a cell, the key lock is my moment.

Speaker 7 Detective Major had spent an hour with Sean Great, Great, and he kept dangling information in front of her as if they were playing a game of cat and mouse.

Speaker 14 I might not be able to take you to her, maybe someone else, or others.

Speaker 18 How many are there?

Speaker 7 Great mumble depends on how much you say is many.

Speaker 18 One?

Speaker 14 I don't know. There might not be none.

Speaker 7 There might not be none.

Speaker 7 Great was being cryptic.

Speaker 7 So he's playing with you.

Speaker 18 I think so.

Speaker 18 Possibly he's wanting to tell me something.

Speaker 4 So

Speaker 18 he's saying things to see my reaction.

Speaker 18 I feel played with, but maybe

Speaker 18 he's struggling with... Should I say it or not?

Speaker 7 You had been with the department almost two or three decades, right? Yeah. Done how many of these interviews? A thousand?

Speaker 18 Over a thousand.

Speaker 15 This one was different.

Speaker 18 In a lot of ways, yes.

Speaker 7 Great seemed to be getting closer to admitting something.

Speaker 7 But did he have answers about what had happened to the two missing women in the area, Elizabeth Griffith and Stacey Stanley? Detective Major was not going to leave the room until she got Sean Great

Speaker 7 to spill his secrets.

Speaker 7 The Hand in the Window is a production of ABC Audio and 2020. Hosted by me, John Quiñones.
Produced by Madeline Wood, Camille Peterson, Kiara Powell. Edited by Gianna Palmer.

Speaker 7 Our supervising producer is Susie Liu. Music and mixing by Evan Viola.

Speaker 7 Special thanks to Katie Dendos, Janice Johnston, Michelle Margulis, Caitlin Schiffer, Rachel Walker, Annalisa Linder, Joseph Diaz, Jonathan Balfaser, Gail Deutsch, Gary Wynne, Stephanie McBee, Natalie Cardenas, and Samantha Wanderer.

Speaker 7 Josh Cohan is our Director of Podcast Programming.