Dirty Little Secret

Speaker 1 Hi 911, what is the address to your emergency?

Speaker 1 This 911 call began an investigation that would turn the town of Ashland, Ohio, into a crime scene.

Speaker 3 We've got something big going on here.

Speaker 4 The first thing you hit my mind is a monster.

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Speaker 1 A chaotic scene. Local pastor Matt Baker has arrived home to find his wife Carrie unresponsive in their bedroom.

Speaker 5 I put my head to her chest and no air coming out, felt for pulse, nothing.

Speaker 7 And EMT told me that

Speaker 9 my daughter was dead.

Speaker 9 There was a piece of paper on the end table and something didn't set right.

Speaker 10 Your wife took her own life and it's pretty obvious.

Speaker 7 I just kept saying there's no way.

Speaker 1 Was there an autopsy done initially?

Speaker 3 There was no autopsy done.

Speaker 7 We don't think Carrie killed herself.

Speaker 11 We know she didn't.

Speaker 1 Your assignment for

Speaker 7 investigating. We did.

Speaker 12 It was nonstop all the time.

Speaker 7 I would go, good morning, angels.

Speaker 13 Carly's angels of wake up. They were this group of strong women who were not going to just let this go.

Speaker 1 You're presented with a crime scene that's not really a crime scene, right?

Speaker 7 Things aren't adding up. I have to know the truth.
What are you talking about?

Speaker 7 Murder?

Speaker 1 MS, what's your emergency? My wife is laying in the bed. Her lips are blue, hands are cold.

Speaker 1 It was just before midnight here in the small town of Hewitt, Texas, on the outskirts of Waco. beloved minister Matt Baker comes home to find his wife unresponsive in their bedroom.

Speaker 1 Their two young daughters asleep in their beds. Matt calls 911.

Speaker 1 Are you in there with her right now? Is she conscious? No, she's breathing. Did you see what happened to her? No, no, no, no.
I do not know. The ambulance is on the way, okay?

Speaker 1 Are you out beside her right now? Yes.

Speaker 1 Matt had been beside his wife, Carrie, since they met at a Baptist summer camp and fell in love.

Speaker 10 I was the assistant director and she was one of the camp counselors. And from day one, we kind of hit it off.

Speaker 15 Carrie fell head over heels. She told the family that she'd met a good Christian boy and she'd fallen in love.

Speaker 7 Her faith was the core of who she was. And so it was very important to her that she found someone whose faith was aligned with hers.

Speaker 15 Matt grew up in Kerrville. He too came from a very religious family.

Speaker 7 Carrie, she was always the bubbly little blonde and just loved life. People were drawn to Carrie.

Speaker 17 She was so funny. And when Carrie laughed, she laughed with her whole body.

Speaker 7 Everyone in the room just could feel her because she was just so free-spirited.

Speaker 6 I don't think there was ever a question Carrie was right or not right for me.

Speaker 18 It was we moved fast.

Speaker 6 We met in in May and married in August.

Speaker 7 We tried to talk Carrie into waiting a little longer and she really did not want to.

Speaker 7 Carrie was looking for a husband with morals and values that were similar to what she had and Matt she believed had those.

Speaker 19 That you may fear the Lord your God to keep all his statutes and his commandments which I command you.

Speaker 7 She was marrying a Baptist minister.

Speaker 20 How good is that?

Speaker 7 You couldn't pick a better guy than Matt Baker.

Speaker 21 Can you say Merry Christmas?

Speaker 21 No here take your pacifier out.

Speaker 19 Say Christmas.

Speaker 21 Can you give a kiss?

Speaker 15 The kids came quickly.

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 15 They looked like this perfect young couple with this beautiful baby.

Speaker 7 Carrie wanted children. She always had.

Speaker 7 And she was a wonderful mother. She's still so pink.

Speaker 15 And then Cassidy came.

Speaker 15 It looked to the outside world like everything was just coming together for the Bakers.

Speaker 19 If you know our children or not, it's my wife Carrie.

Speaker 19 And it's special for me to do this because it is, they are my children, our children.

Speaker 19 Cassidy.

Speaker 1 Hi.

Speaker 1 But it was just after Cassidy's first birthday when the family family was dealt some heartbreaking news about her.

Speaker 15 It turned out that she had a brain tumor.

Speaker 15 Carrie was devastated, absolutely devastated.

Speaker 7 We went to Cook Children's Hospital in Fort Worth.

Speaker 22 It was a scary time, and she struggled in pediatric ICU for 60 days.

Speaker 18 They started chemotherapy on her.

Speaker 15 They didn't know if she would make it through, but she did.

Speaker 6 We get to bring her home.

Speaker 18 That was one of the happiest days.

Speaker 15 She needed a lot of care when she came home, but she was expected to recover.

Speaker 6 The Academy Awards were playing that night, and I remember staying up watching that.

Speaker 10 I went in and checked on Cassidy, and she was fine.

Speaker 18 I gave her a kiss and said a prayer, checked on their older sister.

Speaker 6 Kissed her, said a prayer, and went to bed.

Speaker 15 A little while later, he got back up and went and checked on her a second time.

Speaker 15 This time he started screaming.

Speaker 15 Carrie jumped up, ran into the room, found Cassidy, and she wasn't breathing at all.

Speaker 6 I yell at my wife as I'm taking her out of the bed and I put her on the floor and I began CPR. She calls 911.

Speaker 15 They brought Cassidy Cassidy to the hospital, but they weren't able to save her.

Speaker 15 Cassidy died.

Speaker 10 I know we dealt with it differently.

Speaker 10 We would have discussions about it and pray about it, and it was a struggle.

Speaker 15 Carrie bled grief after Cassidy died.

Speaker 1 And she was having having a difficult time sleeping.

Speaker 7 Carrie had been taking over-the-counter sleep aid since Cassidy died.

Speaker 6 She could not calm down at night without sleeping pills.

Speaker 15 She started writing journals and she just poured out incredible sorrow. She thought she saw Cassidy wherever she went.

Speaker 1 It was horrible.

Speaker 7 What helped Carrie, in addition to her faith in her family, was she saw a grief counselor for a year.

Speaker 7 She talked and talked things through.

Speaker 15 The death of a child always puts a terrible strain on a marriage. Carrie really fought to keep that marriage together.
She loved Matt. She wanted it to work out.

Speaker 7 I just told Carrie that men and women often grieve in different ways.

Speaker 1 In time, the Bakers and their daughter tried to move ahead with their lives.

Speaker 15 It was a year and a half after Cassidy's death. Carrie found out that she was pregnant.

Speaker 15 Carrie said that the baby was coming by the grace of God.

Speaker 6 There was definitely a fear in my wife that I had not seen before.

Speaker 22 A fear of what if.

Speaker 6 I lost one.

Speaker 10 What if we lose another one?

Speaker 6 I can't handle that.

Speaker 17 She loved her girls and she was so strong for them.

Speaker 5 Cassidy's life was cut short, but she had them.

Speaker 15 The four of them look like this perfect little family. You would think, oh, look, they just have it all.

Speaker 1 What's your emergency?

Speaker 1 Almost exactly seven years after the death of her daughter, Cassidy. Carrie is now seemingly lifeless on their bedroom floor while her husband works to save her.
Do your compressions first, okay?

Speaker 1 Just keep doing compression.

Speaker 15 Waco is a great city.

Speaker 15 It's very religious. You can't walk a block without seeing a church.

Speaker 13 It's small enough, but most people are just a degree or two away from knowing everybody else.

Speaker 3 Hewitt, Texas is a suburb of Waco. Back then, maybe 12,000 people have their own city, government, police.

Speaker 15 And when Carrie and Matt moved in, they quickly became part of the community.

Speaker 1 But in early April 2006, right here in the heart of the Bible Belt, a chaotic scene is unfolding inside this house.

Speaker 1 Local pastor Matt Baker has arrived home to find his wife Carrie unresponsive in their bedroom.

Speaker 1 And what's the problem? Tell me exactly what happened.

Speaker 1 My wife is laying in the bed

Speaker 1 and her lips are blue. Hands are

Speaker 1 cold. Is she conscious? No, she is not.
Is she breathing? No, no, no. She's not breathing at all.
No pulse or anything.

Speaker 22 I put my head to her chest and didn't see or feel her chest rising.

Speaker 6 No air coming out. Felt for pulse, nothing.

Speaker 1 Okay, listen carefully. I need you to get her laying flat on her back, on the ground, and remove any pillows, okay? Okay, put her on the floor.
Correct. Put her on the bed now.
Put her on the floor.

Speaker 1 She needs to be on the floor, yes, sir. Okay, okay.

Speaker 15 The 911 operator tells Matt to do CPR to put Carrie on the floor and start CPR.

Speaker 1 Do that and tell me when you're done. Okay, hold on.
Hey, hold on. Oh my.

Speaker 1 Okay, hold on, hold on.

Speaker 10 I did not want the EMTs to come in and see her naked.

Speaker 10 And so I put her clothes on her for her.

Speaker 6 And as I'm taking her off the bed, fluid comes out of her mouth onto the floor.

Speaker 5 And it smells of alcohol.

Speaker 1 You're going to push down firmly two inches with only your lower hand touching her chest. You're going to do it fast and hard 400 times.
400? 400 times is the latest we've been instructed to do, okay?

Speaker 1 400. Twice per second.

Speaker 1 After the 400.

Speaker 1 400? Correct. It's going to be about twice per second.
I'll take you about three and a half minutes to do it, okay? So start right now. I'll tell you when to stop.
All right.

Speaker 1 While on the phone, Matt asks the 911 operator to call Carrie's parents because he says his daughters are also in the house. I need to get a hold of her parents.

Speaker 1 They live in town and I want them to come over and be with the kids. Get somebody else started on this, okay? Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 7 We received a phone call from the 911 operator telling us that we needed to get over to

Speaker 7 my daughter's house that there had been

Speaker 7 an accident. We needed to get over there immediately.

Speaker 1 Oh, she's got foam or something coming out of her nose. Okay, someone's at the front door.
I gotta go. Okay, go ahead.
Okay, all right.

Speaker 9 My name is Michael Irvin. I was a patrol officer with the city of Hewitt, and at that time, I had only had about six months of actual law enforcement experience.

Speaker 9 I was the first officer to respond to the house. There was actually an EMT that met me in the front yard.

Speaker 9 Matt Baker actually met us outside and then walked us in, and he took us straight into the bedroom where his wife was at.

Speaker 15 The EMTs go in and they find Carrie on the floor. She's wearing a t-shirt and a pair of underpants.

Speaker 10 And they come in and I step away and let them start working.

Speaker 9 There is a glass there that was actually still cold, if I remember correctly, which led into

Speaker 9 his account of what happened that

Speaker 1 it'd been a typical Friday night that Matt says started with him and Carrie sharing a drink before heading to the local Y.

Speaker 6 We had a wine cooler that I'd purchased, and so she drank one, I drank one. We take our oldest daughter to swim practice that night.
On the way, my wife started saying her stomach was hurting her.

Speaker 6 She just felt nauseated, wasn't feeling very good.

Speaker 1 After the family returns home, Matt says Carrie still wasn't feeling well and after taking a bath, she heads to bed while he starts the bedtime rituals with her daughters.

Speaker 5 It's a Friday night, so they could stay up later.

Speaker 10 They could stay up till 10 o'clock watching TV.

Speaker 6 Came back, laid down with my wife.

Speaker 10 She's still in bed, half asleep, and she wants another drink.

Speaker 5 She has a drink, I have one too.

Speaker 10 She goes to sleep, wakes up at about 11 o'clock, and asks me to go get a movie.

Speaker 6 And I was like, it's 11 o'clock.

Speaker 10 She goes, well, go get this movie for me and gas up because we have a busy day tomorrow.

Speaker 9 He left to go get a movie. While he was gone, came back and he discovered that he couldn't get back in.

Speaker 5 Walk to the bedroom door and it's closed.

Speaker 6 And I try the knob and it's locked.

Speaker 6 And I knock on it and call her name, Carrie, Carrie, and there's no response.

Speaker 1 Matt says he finds a small screwdriver to try to open the door.

Speaker 18 So I pop the lock and open the door and find her in bed.

Speaker 22 And it was

Speaker 22 very eerily similar to walking in the room when I found Cassidy.

Speaker 1 As EMTs in the Baker residence work on Carrie, police take note of those wine coolers on the bedside table and

Speaker 1 something else.

Speaker 15 There was this bottle of UNISOM that it was almost empty.

Speaker 10 She had been taking sleeping pills to go to sleep since Cassidy passed away and started taking more and more of them. And we had discussions that you've got to stop doing this.
This is too many.

Speaker 10 This can be dangerous.

Speaker 10 We

Speaker 7 ran out of the car and as I started running up to the front of the house,

Speaker 7 an EMT person stood in front of me

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 7 grabbed me and told me that

Speaker 7 my daughter was dead.

Speaker 7 I just kept saying there's no way.

Speaker 9 There was a piece of paper on the end table and something didn't set right. For me, it all pointed back to that note.

Speaker 1 A frenzied scene has been unfolding in the middle of the night at the baker's home.

Speaker 1 Matt Baker's wife is dead. And there's a note.

Speaker 15 On the bedside table, there's a suicide note.

Speaker 6 That was the first time that the word suicide entered my mind.

Speaker 10 I had no idea at that moment what had happened.

Speaker 9 In the note, there was reference to Cassidy. Matt explained to me that Cassidy was their daughter.

Speaker 9 And it's a very difficult time for Carrie because of the anniversary of Cassidy passing away. The first person I remember showing up after me, I explained all the things that Matt had shown me.

Speaker 9 and I took a step back.

Speaker 15 In Texas, in small counties where they don't have medical examiners, the justices of the peace decide what happens when there's an unexplained or a sudden death.

Speaker 9 I do remember in that phone call, it was Judge Martin.

Speaker 15 They told him they had a suicide note and they had alcohol and that they had pills. And Billy Martin did not order an autopsy.

Speaker 3 It was classified as a suicide based on the preliminary investigation and what they saw at the scene.

Speaker 9 Police involvement at that point point is done.

Speaker 1 Carrie Baker's family and her church community are shocked by her suicide.

Speaker 1 I hurt for her.

Speaker 29 I hurt that someone hurt enough that they made that choice.

Speaker 7 We're just trying to put one foot in front of the other and get through this.

Speaker 1 This is.

Speaker 1 Less than one week after Carrie's funeral, Pastor Matt Baker is back at the pulpit here at Crossroads Baptist delivering the Easter Sermon.

Speaker 1 He tells his congregation that just like Jesus, Carrie has risen up to heaven.

Speaker 29 There was always the desire in her to be with a daughter that was in heaven now. And she did voice that several times, that Cassidy needed her, she needed Cassidy.

Speaker 5 This was my wife's Bible that she carried for years.

Speaker 15 Matt had given her a Bible years earlier, and she started writing her feelings in the margins.

Speaker 5 She says, I want to go with Cassidy.

Speaker 10 She could never let go of Cassidy.

Speaker 6 It was such a strong hold on her.

Speaker 1 The week Carrie died, she had a session with her grief counselor and also saw a doctor who prescribed her medication.

Speaker 10 The next day she ripped up the prescription, she wouldn't fill it.

Speaker 7 After finding out Carrie died, I had talked to my sister Kay. I just kept saying there's no way.

Speaker 12 Carrie would never take her on life.

Speaker 7 And then that's when she told me about a visit she got from Joanne.

Speaker 1 Joanne Bristol is Carrie's grief counselor and also friends with Carrie's aunt, Kay Bailey.

Speaker 12 She had had a session with Carrie earlier that week. She had shared with me what Carrie had shared with her, that Carrie found some crushed pills in Matt's briefcase.

Speaker 1 Joanne Bristol also shared that detail and others with police in the days following Carrie's death.

Speaker 7 My sister Kay and I, we all started talking, not not around Linda, but we all were sitting there going, What are we gonna do? Because we knew so much about Matt.

Speaker 17 We worked at a church camp together. Matt, I believe, had been written up at that particular camp for harassing girls that I went to school.

Speaker 1 There was also an alleged incident from his college days involving a fellow student.

Speaker 31 I was afraid of him.

Speaker 1 I was angry with him.

Speaker 31 He took away virtually my young adulthood.

Speaker 1 Laura Wilson filed a complaint against Matt saying he sexually assaulted her.

Speaker 31 We were both student trainers for the athletic department. He was a sophomore trainer and I was a freshman trainer.

Speaker 15 She was cleaning the bathrooms. Matt came in and offered to help.

Speaker 31 He came up behind me and he pinned my arms behind my back and started trying to kiss me.

Speaker 31 I kept telling him to stop. He came up from behind me, picked me up, sat me on his lap, and he began running his hand between my legs.
I was struggling to get away.

Speaker 20 He didn't stop with the kiss.

Speaker 31 He didn't stop with the touching until he was ready to stop.

Speaker 31 Now I'm left with myself violated. in shock, not knowing what to do.

Speaker 18 All I can tell you is when she left the facility, was in tears, but nothing that I did.

Speaker 31 After the assault happened, his words to me were, I never meant to hurt you.

Speaker 1 At the time, Laura told a college staffer about the alleged assault. Matt was not disciplined.

Speaker 31 I dropped out, dealt with recurring nightmares, dealt with trust issues and relationships.

Speaker 31 It derailed my life for many, many years.

Speaker 31 I became a different person.

Speaker 1 She eventually filed a report with police years later. They began looking into the allegations, but stopped once they realized the statute of limitations had passed.

Speaker 1 Matt Baker denies assaulting Laura or harassing any female campers.

Speaker 26 Things have been said that can be misconstrued, misinterpreted, but I can say this: I never accosted anybody.

Speaker 1 Throughout Matt and Carrie's marriage, rumors of alleged inappropriate sexual behavior would continue to follow the preacher, but his wife stood by him.

Speaker 15 She loved Matt.

Speaker 15 When Carrie heard allegations that Matt had been inappropriate with young women, she was his staunchest defender.

Speaker 15 She told one young woman, when you marry a Baptist preacher, women are going to come forward and make false allegations, and you have to protect him.

Speaker 7 Carrie believed him, and we believed Carrie. She was telling us the truth, as she knew it.

Speaker 15 I think there's a presumption with a man of God that they have a certain character and a certain ethical base, and we

Speaker 15 believe that.

Speaker 1 Linda's sisters had hoped that by talking to her about the various past allegations against Matt, she might start to see him in a different light. But she didn't.

Speaker 1 She still had faith in her son-in-law.

Speaker 7 My sisters came over and I told them, let's just grieve and let this go.

Speaker 1 But the family wouldn't let it go.

Speaker 5 It started with the cell phone records.

Speaker 1 And Linda soon makes a startling discovery.

Speaker 7 Something wasn't right.

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Speaker 1 Over the years, since her daughter Cassidy's death, Carrie Baker was in and out of counseling, dealing with her grief, especially around the time of year when Cassidy died.

Speaker 10 Anytime you got close to the anniversary of the death of Cassidy or her birthday or holidays, there was definitely a deep sadness.

Speaker 15 But there was more going on that year. There was the fact that she was uncertain about her relationship with Matt.
She sensed that something was very wrong.

Speaker 15 After Carrie's death, Linda's sisters sat down with Linda and said, we don't believe that Carrie committed suicide.

Speaker 1 While Linda may have still been processing her daughter's loss, her family's emotions had quickly turned to suspicion.

Speaker 7 I remember Nancy saying, Linda, have you ever considered that perhaps Carrie didn't take her life? I remember stammering and saying, what are you talking about?

Speaker 7 Murder? We don't think Carrie killed herself.

Speaker 11 We know she didn't.

Speaker 1 The family decides to tell Linda what they say they learned from Carrie's therapist.

Speaker 12 Carrie had shared with her that she had found some crushed pills in Matt's briefcase and she was afraid that Matt might possibly try to kill her.

Speaker 15 She said, I think Matt's trying to kill me. And then she started laughing and she said, oh no, Matt would never do that.

Speaker 12 But at the same time, I thought, this would make more sense because I knew that Carrie would never take her own life.

Speaker 22 I think if truly Carrie went and said that and was fearful for her life, the counselor should have done more

Speaker 26 and didn't.

Speaker 5 Looking back, I think it was a scream, the first scream in a series of screams that took place that week of, I'm hurting more than you think I am.

Speaker 7 Murder, I mean, that's just not something that I could wrap my head around. I needed time to think, to process.
This was too difficult for me to be able to discuss.

Speaker 1 But then shortly after Carrie's death, Linda says she began to notice Matt was keeping her granddaughters away from her. No more babysitting, no more invitations to school events.

Speaker 15 At that point, she started to feel a little different what was going on here and why was this happening.

Speaker 1 Linda remembers Matt and Carrie's cell phones were part of her family plan, so she decides to have a look at the phone bill.

Speaker 15 The first really odd thing she noticed was that Matt had continued to call Carrie's cell phone weeks after Carrie had died. It made no sense at all and then it all started to click.

Speaker 15 Matt's giving Carrie's phone to someone.

Speaker 6 And I think you said I'm calling all angels, but

Speaker 10 we all went over to your house.

Speaker 7 You said, we need to get together and talk.

Speaker 15 At that point, Linda started to think that maybe her sisters were right and maybe they really did need to look into this.

Speaker 5 Started with the cell phone

Speaker 7 and I immediately figured out it was Vanessa Bowles.

Speaker 15 Vanessa Bowles was the daughter of the music minister at Crossroads Church where Matt was the preacher.

Speaker 6 The relationship really started between my wife and her.

Speaker 18 They became friends.

Speaker 15 Vanessa had a little girl that reminded Carrie of the baby she had lost.

Speaker 10 There were only three young families in the church that had small children.

Speaker 6 So we naturally just kind of congregated together because we had similar interests. We were friends.

Speaker 1 Vanessa would later describe in a recorded interview how she says the friendship evolved.

Speaker 32 So I just got divorced and it was nice to have someone, you know, to talk to, you know, who was in a pastoral position.

Speaker 20 And she gives her explanation of why she has Carrie's phone we were starting to talk and become friends then I said don't call myself because my mom pays for my meds and I don't want to run over during the day I've done that many times before and he was like well I just I sell Carrie's phone so I can get that to you

Speaker 1 maybe Matt was simply seeking comfort in the friendship of a fellow churchgoer but for Linda those phone bills had set off alarm bells

Speaker 15 Linda went to the Hewitt Police Department. She showed them the phone bills, but they weren't interested.
This was a done case. It was over as far as they were concerned.

Speaker 7 That's what Linda said. I need my angels over here.

Speaker 7 I would email them.

Speaker 1 I would go, good morning, angels.

Speaker 7 She would always tell us, you need to do this. You need to

Speaker 7 be investigating.

Speaker 12 We did. It was non-stop all the time.

Speaker 15 The assignments Linda gave out involved going through the garbage.

Speaker 1 And Charlie was doing some digging right alongside her angels as well. She researched whether overdosing on a sleep aid could have really killed Carrie.

Speaker 1 And she questioned Matt about those alleged crushed pills.

Speaker 7 I talked to Matt about the crushed pills.

Speaker 10 My wife said she found him in my briefcase when she was looking for a pin. She said, well, did a kid where you work put him in your bag?

Speaker 1 Matt claims that unknown to him, some kids at work may have been spitting out pills into his briefcase.

Speaker 15 But that seemed odd because the pills didn't look like they'd been spit out.

Speaker 7 What he said couldn't have happened.

Speaker 1 And so Kay called Judge Billy Martin to find out why he had ruled Carrie's death, a suicide.

Speaker 12 I talked to him about the suicide note, and he mentioned it being signed, and I said it was not.

Speaker 12 And he goes, well, you need to talk to the police. I said, we've already done this and we just want somebody to investigate it more.

Speaker 7 And it was about that time where Matt's story no longer made sense. There were

Speaker 7 inconsistencies, outright lies,

Speaker 7 and we needed more answers.

Speaker 1 So following the family's urging, police bring Pastor Matt Baker in for questioning.

Speaker 1 Well, I just want to sit and talk to you.

Speaker 3 Questions needed to be asked, and questions needed to be answered.

Speaker 1 31-year-old Carrie Baker has been found dead in her home.

Speaker 1 It was deemed a suicide by police, but her family began investigating on their own, and they urged police to question her husband, preacher Matt Baker.

Speaker 1 I just want to sit and talk to him. You know, I just want to talk about what happened just a little.

Speaker 1 That way we can clear all this up because I'm sure you know what I'm getting at, okay, as far as, you know, Linda, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 28 It was a very odd, odd week. I mean, but not behavior that would have raised red flags,

Speaker 28 if that makes sense. You know, it was one of those deals that I knew she was depressed.

Speaker 1 The conversation continues, with Matt sharing his own view on what he believes might have happened.

Speaker 10 I think I left about 11 or so.

Speaker 28 I wasn't gone maybe 40 minutes.

Speaker 1 You left the house and went down to the gas station?

Speaker 28 I wasn't even gone long at all.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 10 And so, and that was the strange thing about it is

Speaker 35 I question.

Speaker 28 where she would have taken the medicine. Personally, this is my opinion.
I don't think the medicine is what killed her. I think she threw up into her mouth

Speaker 28 and but was knocked out enough

Speaker 28 and choked on it. So now I don't know if that's just me trying to put stuff together to make it, you know.

Speaker 1 I don't know. Okay.
Like I said, that's all I just wanted to sit and holler at you about. One last thing, you know, to kind of quell everything.

Speaker 24 If I asked you to take a polygraph test, would you be willing to do something?

Speaker 1 Matt eventually passes a polygraph arranged by his attorney. Upset that police continue to consider Carrie's death a suicide, Linda pulls together a team of her own.

Speaker 15 Linda ended up making an appointment to talk to a former federal prosecutor.

Speaker 1 Now in private practice, Bill Johnston had been a federal prosecutor in Waco, Texas.

Speaker 35 The Branch Davidian complex in Waco, Texas goes up in flames.

Speaker 10 Eleven of the survivors now face murder and conspiracy charges in connection with the killing of four federal agents.

Speaker 1 And in 1993, he was part of the team prosecuting the 11 surviving Branch Davidians.

Speaker 2 Those agents did not die in vain.

Speaker 13 Mrs. Dooling came to me and she said, I've heard maybe you can help me.

Speaker 1 She explained to Bill that she doesn't believe her daughter took her own life. So she'd been working on Carrie's case with her angels.

Speaker 13 What Charlie's angels were bringing to us was invaluable. They were this group of strong women who were not going to just let this go.

Speaker 13 They brought a series of stories about Matt's conduct at different points in his life.

Speaker 15 Bill pulled together his own posse. He brought together retired lawmen to take over this investigation.

Speaker 7 I called them my guys and they became as invested in this case as if they were fighting for their own child.

Speaker 15 The biggest thing was to get the body exhumed, get an actual autopsy, and find out what had actually happened to Carrie Baker, how she'd actually died.

Speaker 1 We started unraveling this thing bit by bit by bit.

Speaker 1 Matt Cawthon is a member of the legendary Texas Rangers. He joins the team and reviews the evidence on the case.

Speaker 3 There are red flag after red flag that something was not right. It was so compelling

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 3 I could not automatically agree with the Hewitt police investigation. So I thought, okay,

Speaker 3 let's kind of break it down.

Speaker 1 You're presented with a crime scene that's not really a crime scene, right?

Speaker 3 These are photographs. As you can tell, there's just not much to them.
There were so many things early on in this investigation that just did not match. And part of it was Matt Baker's explanation.

Speaker 1 of

Speaker 3 his timeline.

Speaker 1 He says he left and then he came back and it was such a short time that she couldn't have died within that.

Speaker 3 That was the theory that we were operating on. His timetable did not really match up.
This is an overall view of Hewitt, Texas, and it's not large.

Speaker 1 These locations are very close to each other.

Speaker 3 These minutes apart, especially that time of night.

Speaker 1 The team was also troubled by Carrie's suicide note, which Officer Michael Irving says was pointed out by Matt.

Speaker 9 He just said there's a suicide note, suicide note, suicide note. So he did direct me straight to the note.

Speaker 13 The so-called suicide note was typed.

Speaker 3 It's not signed, and that should be a red flag to any investigator. Let's take this a little bit further.
It says, tell my mom and dad that I love them too.

Speaker 3 In this case, too, is T-O, not comma, T-O-O.

Speaker 1 She was a teacher. She could spell.
Yes.

Speaker 9 Something didn't set right.

Speaker 9 And for me, it all pointed back to that note. That suicide note.
I didn't speak up. At that time, I'd been a police officer for six months.

Speaker 9 If I could go and turn back time, there are a lot of things I would have done differently.

Speaker 1 Was there an autopsy done initially?

Speaker 3 There was no autopsy done. And so at this point, we decided that we needed to have tissue samples from Carrie's body, so we wanted to have that body exhumed.

Speaker 1 At the time of the Hewitt police investigation, they concluded Carrie had died by suicide of over-the-counter sleep medication.

Speaker 15 One of the tasks that Linda took on for herself was investigating UNISOM.

Speaker 15 She found that it would have taken a great deal to have caused Carrie's death and that she wouldn't have died quickly.

Speaker 3 We came up with clues that made us believe that perhaps there were prescription medications given to her without her knowledge.

Speaker 1 Nearly four months after Carrie's death, the Texas Rangers, in conjunction with Hewitt Police, are able to get Judge Martin to sign an order allowing for the exhumation of Carrie's body.

Speaker 3 As we gathered information from various sources, determined to, you know, we needed to go that route. By this time, we were working pretty closely with a detective at the Hewitt Police Department.

Speaker 15 It was critical that they had an autopsy.

Speaker 3 We had a lot of circumstantial evidence, but we needed some scientific evidence, something

Speaker 3 that a prosecutor can hold in their hands and say, okay, now we may have something here.

Speaker 1 What else would the Charlie's Angels of Waco and their investigative team learn?

Speaker 3 A photograph was found on Matt Baker's computer. He tried to delete it.

Speaker 27 We didn't know if she might have even been involved.

Speaker 1 Was Carrie's death a terrible tragedy or something much more sinister?

Speaker 30 A manipulative liar wearing the mask of God came into my life.

Speaker 16 A Hewitt preacher's wife was found dead. Her death originally ruled a suicide.
But is that how the mother of two really died?

Speaker 1 Maybe someone had held that coarse material against her nose.

Speaker 15 I think Carrie on some level understood that she was in danger.

Speaker 1 But you also discover in that Bible, Lord, I'm asking you to protect me from harm.

Speaker 3 He's having a conversation with the 911 operator. And he's not winded

Speaker 3 and he's perfectly calm while he's talking. I'm going to tell you right right now, I don't think it happened that way.

Speaker 7 You don't quickly dress a dead body.

Speaker 1 Here's a picture of Matt Baker. Is this the other woman?

Speaker 32 I'm going to tell him what you did.

Speaker 36 And he said,

Speaker 37 You better not do that.

Speaker 15 Sometimes faith can be used to manipulate and to control people.

Speaker 1 Preachers, the good ones are great.

Speaker 13 The bad ones have the most power of anybody.

Speaker 15 Here they were, the police, in the home of a Baptist minister with a suicide note

Speaker 15 and sleeping pills and a bottle of alcohol. Well, the police at that point aren't thinking murder.
They're thinking that Carrie committed suicide.

Speaker 1 Texas pastor Matt Baker had lost a young daughter years earlier. He now appears to be facing yet another tragedy, the suicide of his wife, Carrie.
But her family isn't buying it.

Speaker 12 I knew that Carrie would never take her own life.

Speaker 7 We will fight for the truth.

Speaker 1 Could Carrie have been murdered? The Hewitt Police, now collaborating with Texas Ranger Matt Coffon, who's been working with Carrie's family, obtained an order to exhume Carrie's body.

Speaker 1 And the autopsy results are now in.

Speaker 13 In her muscle tissue, there was a presence of ambient.

Speaker 13 And that was huge.

Speaker 1 Huge.

Speaker 1 And at the time of her death, she didn't have a prescription for ambiene.

Speaker 3 No.

Speaker 1 The autopsy now lists Carrie's manner of death as undetermined.

Speaker 13 Now you're in undetermined land. Now you're in a mystery.
Now let's solve the mystery.

Speaker 1 Bill Johnston and his team continue to to dig now taking a closer look at those few crime scene photos what's this

Speaker 3 this is a picture of carrie's arm and what you're seeing here is you're seeing the beginning of lividity the purplish color from the pooling of the blood you know when the heart pumps it pumps through the veins and the arteries when the heart stops everything settles to its lowest point it's gravity We have lividity set in in the body and that takes time.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 this was a problem with

Speaker 3 Bill Johnson and his team.

Speaker 13 And so we found the person who wrote the book on crime scene reconstruction, Tom Bevel.

Speaker 39 The first responders from the medical field are saying that lividity either was setting in or set,

Speaker 9 which in that timeframe, that's a problem.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 this is their home right there, right?

Speaker 3 Yeah, this is their home.

Speaker 3 So if he leaves his house at 11, 45 to 55 minutes later, lividity could not have been set in as it was in the photographs, all right?

Speaker 1 Cawthon and the team believe that Carrie was likely dead before Matt Baker left his home. So if Carrie's suicide was a homicide, how was she killed?

Speaker 1 The The photograph showed something more.

Speaker 39 In one of the photographs, there is a

Speaker 39 small abrasion that is to the bridge of her nose.

Speaker 3 We surmise that this was very likely done using a throw pillow off of a couch. It was kind of a coarse material that very likely could have caused an abrasion.

Speaker 1 Indicating that maybe someone had held that coarse material against her nose.

Speaker 8 That's right.

Speaker 1 The abrasion on Carrie's nose, it's not noted in the autopsy, but the presence of the generic form of ambien is.

Speaker 1 So Bill Johnston wants to look into Matt's digital trail. He sues Matt for wrongful death and obtains access to his computer records.

Speaker 15 A month before Carrie's death, they discovered, Matt was on the computer searching for the term overdose by sleeping pills.

Speaker 22 I did search that. I did research to see can you overdose?

Speaker 10 Is that even a possibility that I need to worry about?

Speaker 6 My wife overdosing on sleeping pills.

Speaker 15 As they continued to go through the computer they found where he tried to buy ambien, had moved it into a cart to purchase it.

Speaker 13 And that bit of forensics in the computers now hard linked into the toxicology forensics.

Speaker 13 Our theory became: hmm, the ambion in the wine cooler, he got her sleepy with that so he could later suffocate her. That was our theory.

Speaker 1 And remember those writings in Carrie's Bible about Cassidy? Well, those were written years earlier.

Speaker 1 But there was a recent troubling entry dated just five days before Carrie's death, which says, I feel like I have so much worry. Lord, I'm asking you to protect me from harm.

Speaker 1 I am not sure what is going on with Matt.

Speaker 1 What does that indicate?

Speaker 3 It's ominous. It's almost like she is afraid of him.

Speaker 13 Looking back on it, they were predictive.

Speaker 15 I think Carrie on some level understood that she was in danger and she didn't realize that at that point that he was involved with somebody else.

Speaker 3 During this investigation, we got a clue from a woman who worked in a jewelry store and said within a couple of weeks after Carrie's death, Matt Baker comes into the jewelry store with a woman and they're looking at engagement rings.

Speaker 6 No, we were not.

Speaker 18 One of our rules for our kids was when they turn six years old they can get earrings and so we began looking for jewelry earrings.

Speaker 1 Here's a picture of Matt Baker. Is this the other woman?

Speaker 3 This is Vanessa Bulls. She was the other woman.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 3 this is a photograph that we found on his computer in trash.

Speaker 7 We knew there was going to be a birthday party,

Speaker 7 and we took a picture of all the girls and Matt and Vanessa.

Speaker 15 It wasn't long.

Speaker 15 after

Speaker 15 Carrie's death when people came over, they didn't see any pictures of Carrie at all. But there was a picture of Vanessa with the girls.

Speaker 15 Two of Carrie and Matt's friends came to help with the party, and one of them stayed overnight,

Speaker 15 and she saw Matt sitting on the couch with Vanessa's head on his lap.

Speaker 1 To Carrie's family, it was clear that a romantic relationship had developed between Matt and Vanessa.

Speaker 1 Four months after Carrie's death, police believe Vanessa Bulls just might be the key to solving this case. So they bring her to the Hewitt police station for questioning.

Speaker 20 It's just scary.

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Speaker 4 Academy Award winner Brendan Fraser delivers a masterful performance. This girl needs a father.
I hate you. She hates me.

Speaker 2 It's what being a parent is.

Speaker 4 In this tender and funny film about the importance of connection. This is amazing.
It's cool, but it's fake. Sometimes it's okay to pretend.
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Speaker 4 May be inappropriate for children under 13. An all-new season of The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives is now streaming on Hulu.

Speaker 42 Mom Talk started as a sisterhood, and that's gone to flames. New secrets and lies are coming out.
This is going to be catastrophic.

Speaker 34 We're fighting for our marriages, and the girls are just putting us through hell. They make everything about themselves.

Speaker 4 I can't.

Speaker 42 Hopefully, this doesn't end in a bloodbath.

Speaker 4 Watch the Hulu Original: The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bonus subscribers. Terms apply.

Speaker 1 Sorry, keep you waiting.

Speaker 3 Like I said, I'm gonna ask you some questions about that, Jerry.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 20 I'm sorry, this is just scary.

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 1 Four months after Carrie's death, Vanessa Bulls, the woman who appears to have become romantically involved with Matt Baker, is now sitting at the police station answering questions about how that relationship unfolded.

Speaker 32 Every once in a while, he started calling just to chat, just kind of asking about my divorce and,

Speaker 32 you know, kind of saying how like God would work everything out.

Speaker 1 How long was that that it took it to progress to him calling a couple times a day?

Speaker 30 I want to say a couple of weeks.

Speaker 32 I'd be lying to us that it wasn't nice to have someone who,

Speaker 20 you know, had two daughters and would possibly, you know, be the dad to my child. Sure.

Speaker 13 Having an affair that predated the killing, that would be big evidence.

Speaker 22 Did you ever meet him romantically?

Speaker 1 No. Never? Okay.

Speaker 32 Okay.

Speaker 32 After

Speaker 20 yes. After

Speaker 20 his wife passed away. After okay.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 32 Because I didn't think there was anything wrong.

Speaker 1 2020 obtained emails never before broadcast that show Carrie and Matt's relationship unraveling in the weeks before Carrie's death. At the same time as Matt and Vanessa's phone calls start to heat up.

Speaker 15 She sensed that something was very wrong.

Speaker 1 In one of those emails, Matt blames Carrie for Cassidy's death, writing, you wanted her to be pain-free, and then telling her, Your prayer was the one that was answered.

Speaker 7 That made her angry, and she was going to leave him. I suggested they get counseling.

Speaker 1 Back in that police interview, Vanessa, who at this point had broken things off with Matt, seems open to believing he could have murdered Carrie.

Speaker 1 Do you think that he he had anything to do with her death?

Speaker 20 I think anything's possible now.

Speaker 16 A Hewitt preacher's wife was found dead in her home. Her death originally ruled a suicide.

Speaker 16 But now, nearly a year and a half later, a judge has set a hearing to try to determine if that is how the mother of two really died.

Speaker 1 A formal inquest into Carrie's death was held. But in the end, the Justice of the Peace, who initially declared it a suicide, made the same determination that the autopsy had made a year earlier.

Speaker 1 But Carrie Lynn Baker's manner and cause of death shall be recorded as undetermined.

Speaker 1 So what do you do?

Speaker 3 And at some point, we have to do what we think is right. And in this case, it was to get a arrest warrant for Matt Baker.

Speaker 1 Even though it wasn't ruled a homicide, nearly a year and a half after Carrie's death, Matt Baker is arrested for her murder.

Speaker 11 Matt Baker is accused of drugging his wife Carrie with sleeping pills and then suffocating her with a pillow.

Speaker 29 There's no way that he could take a life. I know my sons,

Speaker 29 and I just don't believe he could do that.

Speaker 25 And we have breaking news for you now from the McClenney County Jail.

Speaker 11 Matt Baker could be released anytime now. His $200,000 bond has been paid in cash.

Speaker 6 My best decision was to move away from there and to move back here to my hometown where I felt support and felt love.

Speaker 1 And it's in Kerrville, about 200 miles from Hewitt, that our cameras catch up with Matt and his daughters.

Speaker 25 This is a little bit of everything. They have a cafe where they take flowers and they crush them up and pretend it's chicken noodle soup.

Speaker 1 Don't be a burst.

Speaker 1 2020 gets a glimpse of life with their father.

Speaker 37 Everything to do is play with my dad.

Speaker 1 After losing their mother.

Speaker 2 Each have their own

Speaker 10 mine, you know, and they separate pants from shirts.

Speaker 36 I pick mine and then he picks hers.

Speaker 10 But I have to okay hers.

Speaker 7 Yes. Why?

Speaker 24 Because she likes spaghetti straps.

Speaker 36 But I don't wear them to school. I'm not allowed.

Speaker 29 During this last year, he was a single parrot working and taking care of these girls.

Speaker 29 They

Speaker 29 emotionally attached to their dad very strongly, the younger one especially.

Speaker 37 This is my favorite toy because it used to be my dad's when he was a little kid.

Speaker 15 Once Matt was released, he went on kind of a press tour.

Speaker 3 He tried to tell the world his side of the story.

Speaker 13 Would Matt Baker have the nerve to actually interview for and take, you know, do a photo shoot with Texas Monthly? Yes, he would.

Speaker 15 Pretty much anybody who wanted to talk with them, Matt Baker had an open door.

Speaker 2 Tonight, on 2020, was it suicide or murder?

Speaker 1 The story goes national and Matt Baker sits down with 2020 for an interview. He proclaims his innocence and denies he had an affair with Vanessa Bulls.

Speaker 26 It was a friend. It was a very good friend.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 26 there's nothing there now.

Speaker 10 I don't believe in adultery.

Speaker 6 I don't believe in divorce.

Speaker 15 The problem was that... for him was that he changed his story a little bit every time he gave one.

Speaker 1 Matt tells 2020 that it was the police who found that suicide note.

Speaker 10 One of the police officers found it and handed it to me, and I held it in my hands for a brief moment, and I looked at the first line, and I handed it back and said, I can't read it right now.

Speaker 1 But listen, as Matt refers to that suicide note in his 911 call.

Speaker 1 My wife is laying in the bed,

Speaker 1 and her lips are blue, hands are cold, and there's a note that says, I'm sorry, basically.

Speaker 18 There's no way I could ever have hurt my wife. I loved her.
She's the mother of my children, And I miss her.

Speaker 6 And I did not hurt my wife.

Speaker 3 We felt validated with the arrest, but I'm going to tell you right now, all the arrests in the world mean nothing without a good prosecution.

Speaker 14 The Texas Rangers made an arrest on the case, and the case was then transferred to our office.

Speaker 38 And I believed that Matt had killed Carrie, but I didn't feel like that we had the proof to take it to a trial and get a conviction.

Speaker 33 If you get an acquittal, it's over.

Speaker 1 Six months after Matt Baker's arrest, the murder charge is dismissed after prosecutors failed to indict him.

Speaker 17 It was frustrating, but I mean, we knew it would take time and we weren't going to stop.

Speaker 15 People started running around town with bumper stickers that said justice for Kerry. Love Trump's evil was underneath it.

Speaker 7 We had truth on our side. We had God on our side.
We had Bill Johnston and we were going to continue civilly.

Speaker 1 But his story was not adding up anymore.

Speaker 2 You wouldn't have left those two girls there if you didn't think it was safe.

Speaker 1 And would Matt's account of what he says he did when he found Carrie? Check out.

Speaker 3 He's not winded and he's perfectly calm while he's talking. I'm gonna tell you right now, I don't think it happened that way, John.

Speaker 8 I just don't.

Speaker 15 When the criminal case was stalled and it wasn't going forward,

Speaker 15 Bill Johnston filed a wrongful death case. And that allowed him to subpoena Matt Baker for a deposition.

Speaker 1 Two and a half years after the death of his wife, Matt Baker is on the hot seat answering questions under oath about the night she died.

Speaker 24 About 1045-ish, a a little before 11, she asked me if I could run a couple of errands.

Speaker 13 Now had she sort of refreshed herself and gotten awake and got forward-thinking by that time?

Speaker 24 Not, I mean, it was still kind of that half-awake, just talking, but still kind of real drowsy.

Speaker 13 I'm conjecturing that it went through his mind that

Speaker 13 maybe she already took all the sleeping pills before he left.

Speaker 13 Was she aware enough that you could observe that she could handle if the kids needed her, for instance?

Speaker 10 I would have, yeah, I felt that

Speaker 8 she probably could.

Speaker 13 She had to be fine or else she was incapacitated and he was a bad father and he just left his girls with an incapacitated person, which one isn't, Matt.

Speaker 13 So he chose the hiring that, yes, Carrie was fine.

Speaker 13 So if Carrie's fine, she's not getting ready to die.

Speaker 14 Bill was able to ask him question after question after question and get answers from him that were very helpful.

Speaker 2 While you have the phone pressed against your shoulder, you put on her panties first.

Speaker 13 Is that correct?

Speaker 22 I believe that's right.

Speaker 1 And then what did you do?

Speaker 24 And I put on her shirt.

Speaker 2 Okay, and she's on the bed at this time. Correct.

Speaker 1 But Matt had told police a different version of how he dressed Carrie that night.

Speaker 28 So I put the panties on her in the bed as I was getting her out. And then when she was on the floor, I put a shirt on.

Speaker 39 The clothing, it appears consistent, especially her panties, as to how you would typically find

Speaker 39 if they were put on by the individual, not somebody else,

Speaker 39 with a lady who is not able to assist.

Speaker 1 If he would lie about dressing her, why?

Speaker 13 And he wanted to explain their body was cold by saying she was nude on top of the bed,

Speaker 13 as if she would have aired out, cooled off.

Speaker 2 Just a stick figure, but where she came to rest once you moved.

Speaker 2 How difficult was that to move her?

Speaker 24 I guess at the time you don't even think about it. You just do what you have to do.

Speaker 1 We wanted to know if Matt's story holds up. So we asked Texas Ranger Matt Cawthon to put it to the test with a dummy roughly the same weight as Carrie's at the time of her death.

Speaker 3 He would have had to reposition the body. I'm going to tell you right now, I don't think it happened that way, John.

Speaker 1 I just don't. How much time would he have had to do this between the call to 911 and the chest compressions?

Speaker 3 About two minutes.

Speaker 1 To dress her, put her body on the floor, all while on the phone with 911.

Speaker 1 We're going to see if you can do this. I'm going to put a stopwatch to it, and here we go.

Speaker 1 And you're doing it as fast as you can.

Speaker 3 Well, I'm doing the best I can.

Speaker 3 I feel the phone about to fall.

Speaker 1 48 seconds now.

Speaker 1 About a minute 20.

Speaker 3 He's having a conversation with the 911 operator, and he's not winded,

Speaker 3 and he's perfectly calm while he's talking to the 911 operator.

Speaker 1 That's one minute 57 seconds.

Speaker 3 Just to get her dressed. That doesn't include the removing from the bed and the chest compression.

Speaker 1 And I know how to do CPR. Oh, you do?

Speaker 13 And listening to the 911 call, it sounded phony.

Speaker 1 Do I need to go unlock the front door? I'll let you know when they start getting close, okay?

Speaker 13 I think he'd give himself an Oscar and I'd give him a rotten tomato.

Speaker 1 Just keep doing compression.

Speaker 9 I would not have known at the time when I got there that he had been doing CPR.

Speaker 1 You're still doing compressions? Yes, sir.

Speaker 1 He did not sound winded on the

Speaker 3 chest compressions because she was already dead. He killed her, I think, before he left to go run alibi errands.

Speaker 1 Despite Matt's inconsistencies, prosecutors feel they need more. So they bring in a new detective to help with the investigation.

Speaker 23 My name is Abden Rodriguez.

Speaker 23 And in in 2009 I was a criminal investigator for the McLennan County District Attorney's Office.

Speaker 1 I hear they called you the human lie detector.

Speaker 23 I guess because of some of the confessions that I was able to get.

Speaker 1 Abdon is asked to review the case and find evidence that would help indict Matt Baker.

Speaker 23 I wanted to look at the interviews that had been done. There was a lot of deception, you know, and I could see how especially Vanessa was doing it.

Speaker 28 How many times a week would you talk, you think, prior to her death?

Speaker 1 Once every day for a couple hours, and maybe midday, or

Speaker 41 sometimes a couple times a day.

Speaker 23 As you can see, she's got her arms crossed and her legs crossed.

Speaker 23 That's a big red flag to me.

Speaker 22 When she passed away that week, how were the conversations?

Speaker 10 Were they kind of the same way they were before?

Speaker 30 They were...

Speaker 20 They were really the same.

Speaker 23 And I told them and I said, look,

Speaker 23 the whole key to this case is going to be Vanessa Bull.

Speaker 23 She's pretty and very smooth and friendly,

Speaker 23 but at the same time, you know, she's a liar.

Speaker 27 We didn't know if she might have even been involved.

Speaker 1 After interviewing Vanessa, Avdon decides to subpoena her to testify in front of a grand jury.

Speaker 23 I said, I'm going to be there and I'm going to listen to your testimony. And I said, and as soon as you lie, I'm going to file charges on you.

Speaker 15 When they brought Vanessa Bulls in for the grand jury, that was kind of a last-ditch effort.

Speaker 23 So we're like, okay, let's see what happens.

Speaker 27 As she and I were walking down the hall, she whispered to me, I'm going to tell y'all everything.

Speaker 1 Behind closed doors, Vanessa Bull's grand jury testimony is the last step in getting Matt Baker indicted.

Speaker 16 A former preacher charged with the murder of his wife.

Speaker 1 Finally, Vanessa's testimony is the smoking gun. Yes, it was.
It was.

Speaker 23 She had

Speaker 23 everything we needed.

Speaker 15 The civil case was dropped at that point in order to let the criminal case continue.

Speaker 1 Matt Baker is charged with first-degree murder, accused of drugging and suffocating his wife Carrie and making it look like a suicide. He pleads not guilty.

Speaker 1 Now, four years after his wife's death, Matt Baker is on trial for her murder.

Speaker 15 That first day of the trial, the gallery was full.

Speaker 44 We have a lot of people here in the gallery today.

Speaker 1 True crime author Catherine Casey was in the courtroom every day.

Speaker 15 I followed this story from the first time it hit the Texas newspapers. It was just so fascinating that this had unfolded, especially in Waco, in this city that's just dominated by religion.

Speaker 1 Prosecutors began poking holes in Matt's story from that night, starting with a 911 call and his claim that he performed CPR on Carrie.

Speaker 1 Go ahead and do confessions. You're going to do it fast and hard 400 times.
400? 400 times.

Speaker 27 Did any police officers arrive before you?

Speaker 9 I was the first one there. And what did he tell you? He pulled her off the bed and put her on the floor in order to do CPR.

Speaker 10 And what was his demeanor?

Speaker 9 Very calm.

Speaker 27 Did that strike you as odd? Yes.

Speaker 9 Even as a police officer, I would not be as calm as he was that night.

Speaker 27 There was no way that in that period of time he was able to move her, dress her, and was doing CPR while he was having this conversation.

Speaker 9 He wasn't sweating. He did not seem to be in any type of physical distress.

Speaker 13 The computer expert found incredible evidence regarding searches, regarding suicide, regarding sleeping pills, and regarding ambien, which became critical.

Speaker 14 Can you tell the jury what was extracted from the muscle tissue of Kerry Baker?

Speaker 45 We found three different drugs, fentramine, diphenhydramine, and zolpidim.

Speaker 26 And then zolpidim, and its common name, is ambien.

Speaker 14 We never were able to determine where he got the ambiene from.

Speaker 27 But we were able to determine that he was going to these websites and that he had gotten as far as putting ambien in a cart.

Speaker 1 Defense attorney Guy Gray pointed out that there was no evidence that Matt actually ordered Ambien from that website.

Speaker 9 They went through the process of looking at it, but it was aborted and no purchase of Ambien was made.

Speaker 1 Correct? Yes.

Speaker 8 No further question.

Speaker 35 Will you state your name for the jury, please?

Speaker 7 Joanne Bristol.

Speaker 1 Joanne Bristol, Carrie's grief counselor, testified about those comments she says Carrie made about Matt.

Speaker 33 She said, I'm thinking my husband is going to kill kill me, but she recanted the statement.

Speaker 43 How do you analyze that or what you think about that?

Speaker 33 I felt at that time that I knew this client very well. She had never misled me, and so when she said, oh, but I know he wouldn't do that, I believed her.

Speaker 8 You didn't advise her to leave the house or move out.

Speaker 43 You didn't call law enforcement. You took that recanting as an accurate or true reflection of what was going on.

Speaker 22 From her, yes.

Speaker 1 Day four of the trial and it's the prosecution's star witness who everyone is waiting to hear.

Speaker 15 This case was one of those cases where all of the attention is focused on one witness and that one witness was Vanessa Bowles.

Speaker 27 State calls Vanessa Bowles. I remember looking at Matt more than looking at the jury.
I wanted to see his response and I think he was stunned.

Speaker 1 After years of denying their affair, Vanessa now admits that Matt began to pursue her even before Carrie died.

Speaker 13 Please have a seat.

Speaker 30 He started asking me things about my divorce and started telling me whoever finds you is going to be a lucky man.

Speaker 27 Did he say anything else unusual to you?

Speaker 30 He came by and was kind of smiling. He said, oh, don't date other guys, just date your pastor and kind of smiled.

Speaker 27 Did he say anything else after that?

Speaker 30 He said, will you really date your pastor? I've I've had a vasectomy, so I can't get you pregnant. Also, I don't have any STDs.

Speaker 30 And he also started telling me that because of Carrie's depression, as he stated, their sex life had been lacking.

Speaker 27 And at the time, were you buying into what he was telling you about Carrie?

Speaker 30 I was buying into everything.

Speaker 30 He was a complete and still is a manipulative liar

Speaker 30 who took me my vulnerable state and made me believe everything he he said.

Speaker 27 What happened then in early March as you and Matt started to spend Fridays at the baker home?

Speaker 30 And he asked if he could hold my hands to pray and he did.

Speaker 30 Then afterwards he started to kiss me.

Speaker 30 Then he just took my hand and led me to the bedroom.

Speaker 1 Feeling guilty about being with her pastor, Vanessa says that Matt tried to reassure her.

Speaker 30 I was extremely remorseful. I couldn't believe what just happened.
He started saying, it's okay. Don't feel bad.
Just ask God to forgive you.

Speaker 30 And he said, in reality, he said, I don't think God believes that anyone can just be with one person the rest of their lives.

Speaker 1 After Carrie's death, Vanessa says Matt wanted more, perhaps even making her the next Mrs. Baker.

Speaker 27 At some point, did you and Matt take the girls and go to Kay Jewelers in the mall?

Speaker 30 We did. He stated that the girls wanted to go look at wedding rings for me.

Speaker 27 Are you telling the jury that he was prepared at this point, a week or two after Carrie's death, to trade in Carrie's wedding set to get you a ring that you wanted?

Speaker 15 Correct.

Speaker 1 Matt had denied this in interviews, but a salesperson from the jewelry store corroborated Vanessa's account.

Speaker 41 She tried on about four or five rings, asked his opinion.

Speaker 30 He just would tell her it didn't matter what he liked. It was what she liked because she would be the one wearing it.

Speaker 1 Vanessa then drops a bomb when she says, Not only did Matt want out of his marriage, he said that if we ever fell so much in love that he would find a way out of it.

Speaker 1 She also knows what happened to Carrie Baker.

Speaker 30 I told Matt, I'm gonna tell what you did, and he said,

Speaker 37 You better not do that.

Speaker 4 Coming to Disney Plus in Hulu. Cassidy, get us home.
Jonas, Brothers, you got it. It'll be the best Jonas Christmas ever.

Speaker 4 Can't wait to see you guys. We love you.
If they can only make it home. What's going on? Our tour plane burned? No.

Speaker 1 We cannot miss Christmas.

Speaker 34 Nothing can stop us from getting home now.

Speaker 4 Homely.

Speaker 24 You lost all three of your passports?

Speaker 4 It's Christmas. Anything can happen, right? A very Jonas Christmas movie, now streaming on Disney Plus and Hulu with a TBPGDL.

Speaker 1 Vanessa testifies that Matt was openly plotting Carrie's death.

Speaker 27 At what point did he start talking about planning her murder?

Speaker 30 It was sometime mid-March. He said that, you know, she took sleeping pills every night, so maybe he could make it look like she overdosed on sleeping pills.

Speaker 15 Vanessa both talked about how Matt had ruminated about all the different ways he might kill Carrie.

Speaker 30 He talked about making it look like she'd hung herself. He talked about tampering with the brakes of her car, maybe doing a drive-by shooting.

Speaker 7 What I saw from Vanessa's testimony was a man who was much more evil than even I believed he was.

Speaker 1 She testified that Matt planned to kill Carrie with a tainted milkshake and then craft a suicide note.

Speaker 27 One to two weeks before Carrie's death, did he tell you that he had in fact tried that?

Speaker 30 He did. He sent an email and said she took a sip of it and said that it tasted like lead.

Speaker 30 And so then he said he took a drink and said, oh, well, the ice cream must have been bad. He mentioned that he would leave a note and he said that he would type it.
And I said,

Speaker 30 that's never going to work. You're going to be caught.
And he said, oh, no, she types everything.

Speaker 27 Did he say something else about what he believed other people thought about her mental state?

Speaker 30 Oh, he said that no one would question it because of how depressed she was.

Speaker 1 Vanessa stuns the courtroom when she says Matt Baker told her how he killed his wife.

Speaker 30 He had gotten big horse pills. We said he emptied out all the contents and put crushed ambien in them.
He said he handcuffed her to the bed.

Speaker 30 started kissing her and touching her all over until she fell asleep.

Speaker 20 Then he said he got the pillow and put it over her face.

Speaker 27 What did he say happened next?

Speaker 30 He said that he thought she was dead and he just said she just took one big ass for air and he said, oh sh ⁇ and then put the pillow back on her face except he did this with his hand to be sure that he suffocated her.

Speaker 27 He didn't even feel enough remorse when he realized that she was still alive to rethink it. He just wanted to finish the job.

Speaker 30 He said he typed out the suicide note, printed it, got her hand, and he said that he ran it, her hand, all around the sides of it and put her fingerprints all over it

Speaker 30 he said that he set everything up

Speaker 30 locked the door and left

Speaker 23 what was the reaction in the courtroom to vanessa's testimony that not only did matt baker kill his wife but that he had been planning it planning it and the things that he did people couldn't believe it i think The more surprising thing was that they couldn't believe that she said they're telling all this.

Speaker 27 So you knew that Friday, April 7th of 2006 was the day that he was going to try it again?

Speaker 30 I knew he was going to try it then, yes. All right.

Speaker 27 And you didn't report that to anybody? No.

Speaker 1 Vanessa says she had second thoughts about Matt and the cover-up of Carrie's murder.

Speaker 30 Not only had I known about this and not done the right thing, in truth, who would believe me?

Speaker 20 He was a preacher.

Speaker 20 And so I felt like I was stuck.

Speaker 1 She She then chose to break it off with him.

Speaker 30 I decided that I didn't care what he told me anymore, that we didn't worship the same God.

Speaker 30 So I called him. I told him, I never want to see you again.
And he became my right.

Speaker 30 He started saying, I killed my wife for you, and now you're leaving.

Speaker 1 In a move Vanessa believed was meant to intimidate her, she testifies that Matt sent her an MP3 of a song called Dirty Little Secret. I'll keep you and my dirty little secret

Speaker 30 was talking about the murder plan and he later referenced it stating i need to keep my mouth shut don't tell anyone or you'll be just another regret

Speaker 1 i'll pass the witness around miss balls the defense pressed vanessa on why she was now coming clean about everything.

Speaker 43 How would we know to believe you, Vanessa?

Speaker 30 Because what do I have to gain from this right now? I'm setting things right.

Speaker 30 I made a mistake here

Speaker 30 because a manipulative liar wearing the mask of God came into my life.

Speaker 30 And this testimony is going to put him where he needs to be.

Speaker 1 It's now up to the jury to determine where Matt needs to be.

Speaker 14 Folks,

Speaker 14 we can't protect her from harm. The only thing now we can do is give her justice.

Speaker 38 Then turned and pointed to Matt and said to convict this murdering minister and find him guilty for one reason only,

Speaker 44 because

Speaker 44 he is guilty.

Speaker 3 The indictment says there's got to be facts of drugs and a pillow.

Speaker 3 And the only way you can get those facts is by believing Vanessa Bulls.

Speaker 43 And she is just not credible.

Speaker 47 I think a lot of people struggled with Vanessa.

Speaker 27 I mean, she had done horrible things,

Speaker 27 but I think it really helped her credibility when she was on the stand because she didn't try to fade her own culpability.

Speaker 40 I think Vanessa was absolutely the key to the case.

Speaker 44 It reached a unanimous verdict. Is that correct?

Speaker 1 Yes, sir.

Speaker 46 We, the jury, find the defendant Matt D. Baker guilty of the offense of murder as alleged in the indictment.

Speaker 1 For the sentencing phase of the trial, the jury gets to hear additional testimony.

Speaker 47 They came back and had witnesses from his past come and talk to us about things that he had done.

Speaker 1 One by one, women testify about sexual misconduct they say they endured from Matt Baker.

Speaker 45 He came up from behind me, put his hand on my breast.

Speaker 15 I pushed him away, told him no. He tried to kiss me, told him no.

Speaker 30 I remember having to use all my strength to try to keep him off of me and from taking my clothes off.

Speaker 1 Including Laura Wilson, the student trainer who worked alongside him in college.

Speaker 32 He took his hand and began running up my thigh and between my legs.

Speaker 47 I think as a jury, to see, you know, what all he's been doing since he was a teenager made us 100% feel like that we had definitely made the right decision.

Speaker 1 The jury sentenced Matt Baker to 65 years in prison. And finally, Carrie's mother has a chance to confront him directly.

Speaker 7 I'm talking to you, Matt, today, okay? You haven't looked at me in almost four years. Can you look at me today?

Speaker 1 So, what does Matt have to say from behind bars?

Speaker 1 Yeah, we asked him to give a call.

Speaker 46 It's a sentence of the court that you be confined for a term of 65 years.

Speaker 46 There's some victim impact statements given by the family of the victim.

Speaker 46 You may proceed.

Speaker 7 I'm talking to you, Matt, today, okay? You haven't looked at me in almost four years. Can you look at me today?

Speaker 1 For a little while, okay?

Speaker 47 But she did talk to him directly, and he looked down.

Speaker 1 Matt,

Speaker 1 she loved you.

Speaker 29 And then you took her from us, Matt.

Speaker 7 You discarded her like she was yesterday's trash.

Speaker 7 You murdered the mother of your children.

Speaker 1 But love trumps evil.

Speaker 7 I don't know why, but I felt pity for him.

Speaker 10 I truly believe in my innocence.

Speaker 18 I believe the jury made a mistake in this.

Speaker 1 After his sentencing, 2020 speaks with Matt Baker again, this time in prison, where he finally admits to his affair with Vanessa, but continues to maintain his innocence.

Speaker 45 I'm coming clean on the lying about Vanessa. I made a mistake.
I'm human. I made a mistake there.
I should not have ever gotten involved in that.

Speaker 45 I was having a tough spot in my marriage and I took the chicken way out.

Speaker 45 But I would never have hurt my wife. I never did.
I never laid a hand on her ever.

Speaker 7 Their mother was erased from them.

Speaker 7 They need to know she loved them

Speaker 7 and she didn't leave them by choice.

Speaker 1 A year and a half after Matt's conviction, Linda was given custody of her granddaughters.

Speaker 15 It was a long journey for the girls to understand

Speaker 15 what had actually happened to their mother.

Speaker 3 Carrie Baker didn't kill herself.

Speaker 2 She was murdered.

Speaker 3 He was a Baptist pastor, preacher.

Speaker 14 He was a predator.

Speaker 13 I think he's a dark angel.

Speaker 1 That you may fear the Lord your God. You get to be the hero during daylight.

Speaker 13 and sneak around in the dark and be evil.

Speaker 1 What do you make of the fact that now, nearly 20 years after the case, Matt Baker still maintains his innocence?

Speaker 23 He's one of those people that can just lie and lie and believe in himself that he's innocent.

Speaker 3 The real hero in this is Linda Dooley. She fought for her child.

Speaker 1 A mother.

Speaker 1 A mother's will.

Speaker 1 It's strong. Determination.

Speaker 3 There's nothing like it, really.

Speaker 1 It touches you. It does.
Why?

Speaker 3 Because I have children.

Speaker 40 And these are hard things.

Speaker 1 Linda Dooland is a brave, strong woman.

Speaker 3 I'll always admire that about her.

Speaker 7 We love each other, and we knew Carrie did not take her life. And we weren't going to sit back until somebody would listen to us.

Speaker 7 She was an amazing mother,

Speaker 17 and she would fight for any of us.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 7 I just wanted everybody to know the truth.

Speaker 35 Carrie's family is still so heartbroken over their loss, but committed to remembering the joy she brought them all.

Speaker 35 We should point out tonight that Matt Baker hasn't seen his daughter since he went to prison, but he hopes they'll visit one day.

Speaker 48 As for Baker David, he has exhausted all of his state appeals. For an inside look at tonight's 2020, join me for our brand new podcast, 2020 The After Show.
Thanks so much for watching.

Speaker 48 I'm Deborah Roberts.

Speaker 35 And I'm David Muir from all of us here at 2020 and ABC News.

Speaker 1 Good night.

Speaker 34 This is Deborah Roberts. To hear the backstory to this episode, join me for the 2020 After Show.

Speaker 34 Every Monday, I'm going to talk with correspondents, producers, some of those folks behind the scenes who bring you these stories.

Speaker 34 And you're going to hear bonus tape that's not necessarily included in the episode. That's 2020 The After Show, Mondays in your 2020 podcast feed.