The After Show: You Left Me for Dead

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Speaker 3 Hey there, 2020 listeners. It's Deborah Roberts here, and I want to welcome you to our very first 2020 After Show.

Speaker 3 There are so many things that happen behind the scenes when we're out reporting, surprising twists, incredible moments that we, our producers, and our correspondents experience.

Speaker 3 So we decided to share the best stories with you. Every Monday, the 2020 After Show will take you behind the scenes of our most recent program.

Speaker 3 And we will also play exclusive audio that you won't hear on Friday's show.

Speaker 3 As you know, we've been bringing hard-hitting investigative reporting for nearly five decades. I wasn't here all five decades, let me tell you.
I've only been here for a couple of them.

Speaker 3 This whole team and I are so excited to bring this show to you. pulling back the curtain, if you will, on the program that you all know and love.

Speaker 3 And so for our first episode, I have the pleasure of welcoming my friend and and colleague, ABC News correspondent John Kenyottis.

Speaker 4 Hi, Deb. It's good to be with you.

Speaker 3 It's good to have you. We call you Q around here, so I hope you don't mind, John.

Speaker 4 Congratulations on anchoring the show. I just love having you at the helm with David, of course, of 2020.

Speaker 3 It's a delight and to see you on the program regularly. Now, John, your show, You Left Me for Dead.

Speaker 3 I'm going to give a little recap here because it's really interesting and, you know, lots of little twists. And a warning to all of you, there may be spoilers if you haven't heard the show.

Speaker 3 And you can find the episode, of course, right next to this one in your feed. You Left Me for Dead is a story of absolute horror and homicide in a small town near Bozeman, Montana.

Speaker 3 Two women are at home, and this is a nightmare for any of us thinking about being at home on a quiet night, when an intruder breaks in and shoots them.

Speaker 3 Lauren DeWise dies, and Ashley Van Hamert miraculously survives.

Speaker 3 What follows is a dogged investigation by a pair of local police officers, telltale boot prints in the snow, an ice fisher who actually finds evidence.

Speaker 3 The search leads to Paul DeWise, Lauren's estranged husband.

Speaker 3 If you follow our shows, you know that wouldn't be a big surprise, but how it all happens is, and his 15-year-old son, Joe, his son from his first marriage.

Speaker 3 So here's a clip from the show from Joe's interrogation.

Speaker 4 Joe,

Speaker 4 we've got to be honest with you. I am completely honest with you.

Speaker 4 How How did your boots,

Speaker 4 those same prints, end up at the crime scene? Joe, be truthful.

Speaker 4 He was protecting his father.

Speaker 4 He was.

Speaker 3 Now, this poor kid is a teenager. John, there are so many elements to this story.
I just, what was it about this one initially that you really felt so compelled to jump into?

Speaker 4 It's such a baffling case. You know, initially it was reported as a double homicide, and that sort of crime doesn't happen in a town like Belgrade, Montana.

Speaker 4 We actually headed out to do this story five years ago, and then the pandemic happened,

Speaker 4 and we put everything on hold.

Speaker 3 Well, that's what I wanted to ask you because it was a long time in the making. How did that change the reporting, though? Because when you wait five years, other things happen.

Speaker 3 People change their minds. Stories sort of change, maybe.

Speaker 4 No, Deb, you know, actually, it helped us because so often when we murder like this happens or a tragedy, the media descends on the town and folks close to that crime really don't want to talk about it much.

Speaker 4 Five years later, we were able, the community was ready then to talk to us.

Speaker 4 And more importantly, one of the crucial witnesses, one of the victims, Ashley Van Haymert, was willing to talk to us and ready to talk to us. So it really helped us, that delay.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 Sometimes people close up. Sometimes people are ready to talk right away.
But the idea, this woman survives, this tragic shooting, loses her friend.

Speaker 3 and why do you think finally, I mean, obviously she had healed a little bit from her wounds, I guess, but psychologically, I mean, why did she feel ready to process and talk about it on camera?

Speaker 4 Because of everything she had been through. We spoke to her and her mother and her family for more than two hours, and then we spent all day with them.
It was just...

Speaker 4 beautiful the way she was ready to open up and what really struck me was that she's so forgiving after everything she went through she was shot in the head lost part of her brain and skull.

Speaker 4 She can hardly use the left side of her body. And yet she is ready to forgive this man.
And

Speaker 4 she was telling me that the one thing that she cannot stop thinking about is the dead woman's daughter, Lauren, her roommate's daughter. A lot of people would have felt great anger toward this man.

Speaker 5 Yeah, no.

Speaker 6 I've actually still to this day, I've never felt anger at him. Wow.
It's just the more of

Speaker 6 like,

Speaker 6 how could you do this to, not even to me, but like the mom of your own daughter.

Speaker 4 A woman you profess to love.

Speaker 6 Yes. Yes.
How could you leave her without a mom?

Speaker 6 And at that time I was hoping, you know, you'll be in prison for the rest of your life for, you know, what you've done, you know, and that you wouldn't have a dad either anymore.

Speaker 3 Gosh, just so heartbreaking.

Speaker 4 You know what else she tells me in the interview? She says that she actually prays for Paul DeWise, this man who tried to kill her and killed her roommate. That's what also struck us.

Speaker 4 Her faith is so amazing. Her resilience, you know, her strength, her willingness to forgive this killer.
She's an amazing woman.

Speaker 4 Despite the horrific injury that I said she suffered to the brain, she now is recovering well. Well, that's what I wanted to ask you.

Speaker 3 Yeah, how is she doing

Speaker 4 all of that? She lives by herself now. She has a job, and she's back to doing the things she loves and that's being outdoors in the mountains.

Speaker 4 She's a snowboarder and she's beginning to do a little bit of that and of course hiking always with her beloved dog, you know, Bronson by her side.

Speaker 3 Well if you're in Montana of course you probably do love the outdoors.

Speaker 3 It always strikes me when you interview and when we all go out there and we talk to these people who have gone through such an ordeal. Does she talk a lot about Lauren and just having had that loss?

Speaker 4 She thinks about her all the time. You know, they had just moved in together, but Lauren at one point said, this is the safest I've ever felt living here.

Speaker 4 She was so glad to be away from this husband who, it turns out, had been abusing her. She had started to open up, but not a lot to Ashley.

Speaker 4 It's so tragic that it happened before she had a chance to tell them what was going on.

Speaker 4 But one of the roommates certainly believed that this was serious enough to lock the doors. You know, she was a woman who, she says, had not locked her

Speaker 4 as long as she had lived there. But after she heard about Paul DeWise, she started making sure that the door was locked and that they were better protected.

Speaker 3 And this is the small town where nobody thinks anything happens there. You know, it just doesn't happen in our community.
And of course, it did happen there.

Speaker 3 Well, we're going to take a break, but after the break, we're going to hear about the surprising place that the murder weapon turned up and something, John, you did out in the field.

Speaker 3 You shared with me a little bit later.

Speaker 3 Okay, so stay tuned. We'll be right back.

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 4 It started with a phone call in the early hours of the morning.

Speaker 7 911, what is the address to your emergency?

Speaker 4 A terrified woman tells the operator she's been kidnapped, assaulted, and that she's trapped in a room with her attacker. He's fallen asleep.

Speaker 4 So she quietly and ever so carefully finds his phone and calls for help.

Speaker 8 Is there any way you can get out of the building? I don't know without waking him. I'm scared.

Speaker 4 This 911 call began an investigation that would turn the town of Ashland into a crime scene.

Speaker 2 We've got something big going on here.

Speaker 9 The first thing that hit my mind is a monster.

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This is going to be catastrophic.

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Speaker 3 Okay, John, we're back now, and I want to talk about not only just this crime and how it happened, but you know, one of the things that's always intriguing is how police crack these cases.

Speaker 3 That's why our viewers and our listeners actually find these cases so interesting. How they found it.
Now, the murder weapon in this case, these women had been shot.

Speaker 3 They didn't find it right away, but they eventually, you met the folks who found the murder weapon, and it was an intro. Intriguing way.

Speaker 3 Tell us a little bit about that in this cold part of the country.

Speaker 4 In a very Montana way, as we like to say, that they find this. This woman was ice fishing at a place called Cattail Lake in Bozeman, Montana.

Speaker 3 Andrea Larson.

Speaker 4 Yes. And she's out there with her dog and her husband.
And it's a frozen pond, of course. And I got to tell you, I was a little nervous heading out onto that pond.

Speaker 4 But we had a chart that showed that a car could drive over this frozen lake and wouldn't fall through.

Speaker 3 Did your producer Joe Diaz have to convince you to go out there?

Speaker 4 I wanted to give Joe a rope so that in case I went down, he would pull me out. But I learned how to ice fish with this woman.

Speaker 4 She was out there and she notices this gun sitting on top of the ice and it's covered with a little snow. And that's where it was found.
She thought nothing of it.

Speaker 4 She picks it up and she kept it for a couple of weeks.

Speaker 4 She hadn't heard of the murder.

Speaker 3 Why would she think nothing of it to find a gun on the side?

Speaker 4 It's Montana, Deb. Everyone has a gun.

Speaker 4 People hunt. You're right.
You're right. And they hunt a lot.

Speaker 4 So she didn't think much of it until she reads up online about this murder that had happened and the attempted murder of this other woman and how police were looking for the weapon.

Speaker 4 And she turned it in. And immediately, as we like to say in the story, as quick as you can say, exhibit A, the cops were at her door ready.

Speaker 3 That's a classic John Kim Yona's line.

Speaker 3 And that turned out to be the murder weapon.

Speaker 4 Yes, yes.

Speaker 3 John, what about just going out there?

Speaker 3 Because I think what listeners might find interesting is, you know, many times we go out there on either the lake or in my case, sometimes in wooded areas in some kind of a swamp or whatever with the police to find out.

Speaker 3 You had never been ice fishing before. You're out there with her, having her tell the story.
Give us a little bit of a sense behind the scenes when you're doing that interview with her.

Speaker 3 Are you nervous about falling through while you're doing it, or were you perfectly comfortable? And just did you just do the interview without thinking about it?

Speaker 4 Well, prior to this, I had done a story in North Dakota where it was very cold and I got frostbit in my ear because it was so darn cold.

Speaker 4 So going into Montana in the dead of winter, and it was a little warmer than Januaries usually are in Montana, thank God.

Speaker 4 But, you know, you go and you pack all the jackets and coats you can bring along. I bought some boots that are specifically made to ice fish.

Speaker 4 You just, it's always really interesting to see how other folks live. and what's normal for them.
You know, I grew up in San Antonio, Texas. I had never been ice fishing in my life.

Speaker 4 So it's interesting and just the goodness in people, people like Andrea, who just go out there and do something that is just part of their daily lives.

Speaker 4 And I learned how to ice fish and how to put the, you know, the hook and the line down in the water and then wait and wait and wait. Did you catch anything? No.
No, of course not.

Speaker 3 Not at all. But you know, I'm always struck by the fact that people are willing to take us out into their lives and to do these kinds of things.

Speaker 3 And you specifically probably wanted to be out there on the ice with her because that that's that factored into the story that's why we're reporters you know we're out there we just want to learn more about the world and life and this was an integral part of the investigation what she found and she eventually of course did turn it in and that was a big break in the case I am always struck by the police officers in these stories and they are just the unsung heroes many times particularly in small towns where maybe they don't necessarily always have the experience of investigating big murders.

Speaker 3 Maybe they don't happen there.

Speaker 3 And so in this particular case, a big part of the story was that dogged detective work that was done by Jeremy Kopp of the Gallatin County Sheriff's Office you mentioned and Dustin Lensing of the Belgrade Police Department.

Speaker 3 What about the two of them and trying to put this together? And I'm guessing this is probably maybe the biggest case they had had to try to solve.

Speaker 4 They were so sharp in their investigation for small-town cops.

Speaker 4 When they found boot prints, for example, in the snow, they lightly spray painted the boot print with red paint to get the imprint a kind of, yeah, 3D model

Speaker 4 of the prints. And then they went to Walmart where they searched the shoe aisles for the same kind of boots that these prints belonged to.
And they found the exact kind of boot.

Speaker 4 And then they gently and methodically interviewed the characters in this case. It happened on a Sunday morning.
They weren't even working. And then they worked seven days a week.

Speaker 4 It was really a masterclass on how to conduct these investigations taught to us by two small-town cops.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and they know to go to family right away to look at the family members.

Speaker 3 And certainly when they learn that somebody has been in the throes of a divorce, as Lauren had, so obviously they kind of knew where to swoop in.

Speaker 3 This case you talk about in the piece had a big impact on these two officers, and it happens all the time. I've noticed that too when I've been out interviewing small-town cops.

Speaker 3 Here's an extended clip from the interview with Jeremy Kopp and Dustin Langsing that gets at that. Let's take a listen.

Speaker 11 It became one of those things where you lived and breathed it, right? I had a three-month-old baby at home when this happened. And

Speaker 11 before I knew it, he was six months old.

Speaker 11 It was three months of I would come home in the middle of the night.

Speaker 4 I would

Speaker 11 peek in on him, make sure he was okay. I'd go to bed.
I'd get up before dawn, go back to the office, get to work, meet Jeremy. We'd have coffee and get started on the day.

Speaker 11 And that was a seven-day-a-week affair for a long time, you know, three months into it. And now my kid is six months old.
And I don't even know what happened there.

Speaker 11 All of the circumstances involved and all of the tragedy involved.

Speaker 11 It wasn't work. It was a mission.
Yeah, it was a mission.

Speaker 4 Yeah, that's the police chief, Dustin Lensing. And he's telling us how he just became a father, right? And yet now he's working seven days a week, hardly sees his infant's child.

Speaker 4 And it wasn't just the officers, you know, it was the entire community of Belgrade that felt the impact of these crimes.

Speaker 4 It was rare for them to see any kind of violent crime in this town, as we mentioned, much less an attempted double murder.

Speaker 3 Yeah, something like this. You know, just hearing those guys, and I've heard it so often when I've interviewed officers.

Speaker 3 You know, we think that they just go out and they just do their job and we see them, these visions of them, you know, in our pieces, but these are real people and particularly in communities like this.

Speaker 3 And they take this stuff to heart. And I've had officers tear up when talking about this.
And you can hear the emotion in their voices as well.

Speaker 4 They did in this story, too. They were truly dedicated to getting answers to this horrific crime.
And it wasn't just them, you know, the entire community, as I said.

Speaker 4 Everyone was appalled by what this man, Paul DeWise,

Speaker 4 when they started learning the details of the killer,

Speaker 4 what he did, and then how he made his 15-year-old son, Joe, come with him on the night of the shootings. And then he tried to help get his son, his own son, to help him cover up

Speaker 4 the crime by lying to the authorities.

Speaker 3 Before we even get to that, because I wanted, you've touched on so much, John, you're the classic reporter. You get it all in there.
But I want to talk about Paul DeWise first.

Speaker 3 Because, I mean, not only did he kill his wife and try to kill Ashley, he shot her, but he involved his teen children.

Speaker 4 It's unfathomable. He was a man that just couldn't stand to see his wife leave him.

Speaker 4 And as turbulent as their marriage was, when she finally said, I need to get away, and she hung in there for a long time. But when she finally did,

Speaker 4 he couldn't take it.

Speaker 3 And he was abusive.

Speaker 4 Certainly, that's the allegation is that he had been very abusive to her. And

Speaker 4 she had taken pictures of herself with bruises on her arms and neck. And it was pretty clear that she was desperate to get out of there, and she needed to get away.
And he couldn't stand that.

Speaker 4 So he came after her.

Speaker 3 They had a little child together, a four-year-old, but he had teen children from a previous marriage. And the idea, I mean, this is the thing that gets me about this story.

Speaker 3 I mean, we hear, you and I cover so many of these stories where they're couples that are at odds and certainly, you know, very viciously at odds, but to involve teen children.

Speaker 3 So he takes his son that night with him. Tell us about that.

Speaker 4 Well, when they started questioning him right away, of course, the first suspect is, you know,

Speaker 4 the estranged spouse or the boyfriend. And sure enough, he had an alibi.
He said, I was home with my kids, and I stayed home until midnight when we went out to buy a six-pack of beer.

Speaker 4 And And he stuck to that story. So then the investigators started interviewing the kids who were with him.
And they stood by his alibi. They kept lying for their father.

Speaker 3 And could they tell that the kids weren't being truthful?

Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah. I think

Speaker 4 these very smart investigators started noticing that there were little cracks in the story. And it seemed like, especially Joe, this 15-year-old boy, was trying desperately to protect his dad.

Speaker 4 And then they started finding evidence that kind of pointed toward to the young boy being at the crime scene.

Speaker 3 The boots, the shoe prints.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And that connected him because he had those boots. So the boy starts to crack, but he's trying to protect.
That's his stepmother. Lauren is his stepmother.
And Paul is his father. This poor kid.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 That's a lot for a 50-year-old.

Speaker 4 He was scared. But he ultimately...
confessed and told the police finally after breaking down. They brought in his biological mother from Florida and she pleaded with him to tell the truth.

Speaker 4 But of course the interrogators also were very gentle in prodding him and getting close to him physically. You know how you start interviewing somebody and you have some distance.

Speaker 4 Well, in this case, the officer got really close to him, and the closer he got, and he held his hands and he said, look, I need you, Joe, to be honest with him.

Speaker 4 And his mother is now there pleading with him also to tell the truth. And he ultimately confessed.
He really is one of the quiet heroes in this story.

Speaker 4 Police tell me that when they had this young boy in the interrogation room, it was one of the heaviest conversations they've ever had with anyone.

Speaker 4 It was emotionally heavy to be with this young boy, carrying all that weight on his shoulders, trying to protect his father, until he finally let it all out. to the cops.

Speaker 4 And it was just incredible to see the undersheriff Jeremy Copp's interactions. He was sweet and he was tender and he was understanding.

Speaker 4 And very likely this was something that Joe, by the way, never got from his own father, Paul DeWise, but he got it from this cop. He never got it from his father because he was fearful of his father.

Speaker 4 He thought Paul DeWise was going to kill him and his sister Natalie. So they were doing everything the father insisted on them doing.
He wound up forcing him to come along.

Speaker 3 So he's threatened and he feels he has no choice.

Speaker 4 Yeah, because he would be harmed himself. In the end, neither Joe nor his sister Natalie faced any charges.

Speaker 3 He is a 15-year-old, so they didn't face charges.

Speaker 4 No, and he came clean ultimately.

Speaker 3 And testified against his father. Yeah, and

Speaker 4 that was amazing. He's now doing very well, Joe.
We hear that he's working on rebuilding his life.

Speaker 4 They're hopeful, the cops are, and the community is that this resilient young boy is going to wind up doing good things in his life.

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Speaker 3 John, Lauren was killed by her estranged husband, of course. The whole notion that she was living this life of abuse, did people know this?

Speaker 4 Yeah, that was one of the toughest things that you find out in shooting and filming the story.

Speaker 4 The most difficult part of the story was learning that Lauren had allegedly been experiencing domestic abuse for quite a while while she lived with Paul DeWise.

Speaker 4 Her murder came only after she had finally, of course, separated from him.

Speaker 3 Which happens so often.

Speaker 4 As I mentioned, there's pictures of her with bruises. On the night she was murdered, she had even said, according to her roommate, Audrey Butler, I feel safer here than I've ever felt.

Speaker 4 And we both know that abusive relationships are just horrific and that leaving a physically abusive relationship is a major risk factor for homicide or for non-fatal violence.

Speaker 3 Yeah, we've seen that. You and I have seen that in stories we've covered.
Can you, did you get a sense of what she endured in the marriage?

Speaker 4 Yeah, at one point, Paul tells investigators, well, no, I wasn't physically abusive, but I did punch her in the arm ten times.

Speaker 4 Ten times.

Speaker 4 Ah. But I never would have killed her, he said.

Speaker 3 Ah, well, she clearly had fled and was trying to find safety. You asked Ashley, actually, about this.
Let's listen to a clip.

Speaker 4 You know the consequences of domestic violence all too well. What do you want people to take away from this?

Speaker 6 I want people to take away from this that if you are, I know this is easier said than done, but if Lauren would have known what was going to happen to her,

Speaker 6 she would have taken her daughter and just left, gone anywhere if she knew she was going to die.

Speaker 6 So if you are in a bad situation, don't move somewhere where your offender

Speaker 6 can find you. Exactly.
Yes. Go anywhere to save your life and if you have kids lives.

Speaker 3 Such important advice.

Speaker 4 I love her. She's the hero.
I mean after everything she went through, she was so strong in the way she came up.

Speaker 3 We talk about the four-year-old right now being raised by relatives.

Speaker 4 Yeah, maternal grandmother. She's being raised by them.
And the other two kids, Joe and Natalie, are with their mom in Florida.

Speaker 3 What kind of an impact, John, you and I both when we go to these communities sometimes can really kind of get the feel, especially after you've talked to so many different people in a community.

Speaker 3 You get a feel for what a crime like this has done to a community. This was one that was known to be, I guess, peaceful and beautiful, and then they're shattered with this kind of horrific situation.

Speaker 3 What kind of impact did this have on that community? And even all these years later, it'll never be the same.

Speaker 4 I mean, you finally realize it can happen anywhere, it can happen anywhere. And you hear, as we say, we say that all the time.
But even in this bucolic, gorgeous little,

Speaker 4 mountain town with the Rockies,

Speaker 4 it happened there. And it hadn't happened in decades.
There had been a murder in there, in the small town. But I think now everyone's on guard.

Speaker 4 People have started locking their doors because they realize you just never know.

Speaker 3 Things can happen, but also too, that powerful lesson about domestic abuse and that people actually can take away from that.

Speaker 3 We talk about the National Domestic Violence Hotline, 1-800-799-SAFE, so people can actually call because there is something that you can take away from the story too, aside from the innocence that was shattered, but an awakening too about domestic violence and how tragically it can actually affect us all.

Speaker 3 Well, John, you know, you and I cover so many of these stories, and oftentimes we go to, you know, corners of the country, corners of the world, sometimes in your case.

Speaker 3 Did you take away, sometimes I take away a feeling from a story after I've done something, I take away a feeling from the people.

Speaker 3 Or I did a story once in Florida, and these two women police officers were just such tough, amazing women. And I sort of went away thinking about how they were so devoted and dedicated.

Speaker 3 Did you take a feeling away from this particular one?

Speaker 4 Yeah, just how human these officers were that worked on the case.

Speaker 4 You would think that these guys handle these cases every day and they become sort of numb to the horror that we witness.

Speaker 4 And yet these people took it to heart and

Speaker 4 lived that story for years to get to the killer and to get a conviction, which in the end they did. So those two guys were amazing heroes, and Lensing and Kopp.
And of course, Ashley, you know, she...

Speaker 4 the strength and the resilience and the power that she has now, despite everything she went through. Boy, what a lesson for all of us.

Speaker 3 The human spirit. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Wow. Love it.

Speaker 3 Triumphs. Well, John Kinonis, how great to have you on our inaugural behind-the-scenes broadcast.

Speaker 4 This is the premiere. I love it.
This is it.

Speaker 3 This is it. Well, you know, you and I have been at this a long time, and it's great to finally sit down and get a chance to chat.

Speaker 4 Thank you. We'll do more.

Speaker 3 We definitely will. Thank you so much for coming in and doing this.
Well, that's our program for today. John, I can't thank you enough for being here.

Speaker 3 The 2020 After Show will be back in your feed next Monday with more analysis and behind-the-scenes stories from 2020. BTS, as they say these days, behind the scenes.

Speaker 3 Tune in on Friday nights, of course, at 9 o'clock for all new episodes of 2020 on ABC. And I should also point out that our show is produced by Sasha Aslanian and Cameron Chertavian.

Speaker 3 Special thanks to Joe Diaz and Brian Mazurski of 2020. Laura Mayer is the executive producer of ABC Audio.

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