A Preacher's Secret, Part 2

Speaker 1 This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible, financial geniuses, monetary magicians.

Speaker 1 These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save.

Speaker 1 Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary, not available in all states or situations.

Speaker 2 My name is Linda Dooland, and Carrie Baker is my daughter.

Speaker 2 I believe that

Speaker 2 her life was taken by her husband, Matt.

Speaker 2 I don't believe that a person should be able to walk free after he's murdered someone and this someone is my daughter and it's time that we should have been grieving for our daughter, that we've been fighting for a cause.

Speaker 5 A former pastor in Kerrville behind bars tonight accused of murdering his wife more than a year ago.

Speaker 6 You've got a man who's extremely concerned about his public persona.

Speaker 6 And it's very important to him to be viewed as the perfect father, the perfect husband, the perfect Christian, the perfect preacher.

Speaker 6 But in reality, he lives his day-to-day life very differently.

Speaker 7 I am Matt Baker, and I have been called a cheater, an adulterer, a murderer, a liar.

Speaker 7 And that's the farthest thing from the truth.

Speaker 8 Authorities finally have enough evidence to say Matt Baker gave his wife, Carrie Baker, a lethal cocktail of sleeping pills and alcohol to her nose, and bruises to her lips indicate indicate she was also smothered with a pillow.

Speaker 2 Matt Baker was very good at hiding his dark side. In her gut she was figuring it out but she didn't listen to those instincts.

Speaker 7 How could they think this of me? They know I'm not capable of hurting Carrie. They know that.

Speaker 6 I don't believe she committed suicide. There's too much about the staged crime scene to believe that.

Speaker 11 Vanessa Bowles was a key to this whole thing. She was maybe the missing link.
She was the, quote, other woman. Murders have occurred for less.

Speaker 6 Did he ever send you song lyrics?

Speaker 4 Yes, he sent me song lyrics to the song Dirty Little Secrets. It went, I'll keep you my dirty little secret.
Don't tell anyone or you'll be just another regret.

Speaker 11 You start connecting the dots and you start getting a picture of what was really going on here. My name is Matt Coffin, and at the time of Carrie Baker's death, I was a sergeant in the Texas Rangers.

Speaker 15 Matt Baker has been behind these walls, but today he was released from jail.

Speaker 11 At that point, the investigation was stymied. Something else was going to have to cause the next domino to fall.

Speaker 2 Doesn't matter how long it takes, we're in it till the end.

Speaker 2 You can't hide dirty little secrets forever.

Speaker 13 I'm Erin Moriarty, Dirty Little Secrets.

Speaker 2 Carrie was a very good minister's wife.

Speaker 2 Faith was very important in her life.

Speaker 13 Linda and Jim Doolin are convinced that their daughter Carrie was murdered by the man they once embraced as a son-in-law, Baptist preacher Matt Baker.

Speaker 2 This was a man who was capable of the ultimate evil.

Speaker 13 Matt has always claimed that his wife committed suicide, just as he told the 911 operator a little after midnight on April 8th, 2006.

Speaker 15 Hey, with 911, do you have an emergency?

Speaker 17 Yes, I think my wife just committed suicide.

Speaker 13 He said he went out to get a video and gas for his car. When he arrived home, he found his wife lifeless on the bed, an empty bottle of Unisom and a suicide note on the table.

Speaker 7 I felt to see if she was breathing. She was not.
I shook her. She didn't answer.

Speaker 13 Their daughters, Kenzie 9 and Grace 5, were asleep in nearby bedrooms. Matt says it was because of another daughter, Cassidy, that Carrie took her own life.

Speaker 13 She never stopped grieving for Cassidy, who had a brain tumor and died seven years earlier.

Speaker 7 That was a tough time for her.

Speaker 13 Every year, did it get better as the years went on?

Speaker 7 It never got better for her.

Speaker 13 But Carrie's mom and her family did not believe that Carrie would have abandoned her living children. And that suicide note, it was typed, even the signature.

Speaker 13 Linda grew more more suspicious when she discovered that there were numerous phone calls between Matt and a young parishioner named Vanessa Bowles.

Speaker 11 We talked a lot, but I talked to a lot of friends.

Speaker 7 So it's not... Did you have an affair with Vanessa? Oh, no, I did not.
There was never any relationship at all other than a friendship.

Speaker 13 Matt certainly didn't seem like he had anything to hide. He voluntarily spoke with the Hewitt police a few months after Carrie died.

Speaker 7 So since then, it has grown into a good friendship.

Speaker 7 You know, and I know for a fact my in-laws don't like that.

Speaker 13 And he wasn't shy about airing his grievances against the Doolands who had been pushing the police to investigate.

Speaker 7 I think they're mad that they think I'm moving on. I guess they think I'm moving on too quickly.

Speaker 13 Matt patiently answered every question they posed.

Speaker 12 She was laying in the bed.

Speaker 12 Was she clothed?

Speaker 7 She was not. She had had her.

Speaker 7 She had her...

Speaker 18 I'm trying to remember.

Speaker 11 No, she was naked.

Speaker 13 The police also questioned Vanessa.

Speaker 16 Like I said, you're not under arrest, and this doesn't mean that you're under arrest.

Speaker 4 I'm sorry, this is just scary. I know, I know.

Speaker 13 Who denied any affair with Matt?

Speaker 14 Did you ever meet him romantically?

Speaker 15 No. Never? Okay.

Speaker 13 And that, it seemed, was the end of the police investigation. Linda was frustrated and felt the only way she'd know what happened to Carrie was to find out herself.

Speaker 13 So she hired attorney Bill Johnson and his team of investigators.

Speaker 18 We became convinced that he'd done it.

Speaker 19 It seemed like that every expert we talked to told us that it could not have happened the way Matt Baker said it happened.

Speaker 13 Matt said he was only gone for about 40 minutes. But Carrie's body showed signs of lividity.
the pooling of blood after death.

Speaker 13 The experts said it was unlikely that Carrie could have ingested drugs, died, and reached that state in such a short period of time.

Speaker 13 Moreover, records salvaged from Matt's workplace server were incriminating.

Speaker 18 We got to parts of it that showed he had searched terms like

Speaker 18 overdose and death by sleeping pills.

Speaker 13 Johnston felt the police dropped the ball, but he was hamstrung. There was no autopsy, and the death was classified as suicide.

Speaker 18 There was a guy who was holding a Bible on Sunday telling everybody how to live and he murdered his wife. Every minute that went by, Baker was closer to getting away with it.

Speaker 18 And he knew it.

Speaker 13 Johnston turned to Matt Cawthon, an old friend who was a member of the Texas Rangers, the statewide law enforcement team. Cawthon agreed unofficially to help.

Speaker 11 The next step in my mind was to obtain records from telephones, any other type of records that we might need.

Speaker 13 To get those documents, Cawthon needed the district attorney's help. He was turned down flat.

Speaker 11 I could not understand why I could not have the basic tools that I needed to continue with this.

Speaker 13 Cawthon persisted and finally convinced the authorities to conduct an autopsy. three months after Carrie died.

Speaker 13 It was too late to test for drugs in her blood, but they did find Unisom in her muscle tissue, along with traces of ambient, a drug Kerry was not known to take.

Speaker 13 The manner of death was changed from suicide to undetermined.

Speaker 13 In September 2007, A year and a half after Carrie died, the police now felt they had a homicide on their hands. Matt Baker was arrested and charged with murder.

Speaker 13 He was released on bond thanks to powerhouse attorney Guy James Gray, who took the case pro bono.

Speaker 20 I only take the cases that I believe in with all my heart, and this is one of them.

Speaker 13 And Gray says, this is an injustice.

Speaker 20 You can't go forward with a murder case unless you can establish that it is a homicide. So you have to establish cause of death.
And that forensically is just not possible in this case.

Speaker 21 This is the story of the one. As a custodial supervisor at a high school, he knows that during cold and flu season, germs spread fast.

Speaker 21 It's why he partners with Granger to stay fully stocked on the products and supplies he needs, from tissues to disinfectants to floor scrubbers.

Speaker 21 Also, that he can help students, staff, and teachers stay healthy and focused. Call 1-800-GRANGER, clickgranger.com, or just stop by.
Granger for the ones who get it done.

Speaker 13 Six months after Matt Baker was arrested, his fate changed again, dramatically.

Speaker 7 Heavenly Father, we thank you so much for our food, for our family, for our friends. Amen.

Speaker 13 Assistant District Attorney Crawford Long had decided it was too risky to take take Matt to trial. So he dropped the murder charges.

Speaker 3 The evidence was too speculative. Couldn't get beyond a reasonable doubt with that.
It's not, was it a crime and who committed it, but was it a crime at all?

Speaker 13 But Matt wasn't off the hook.

Speaker 13 Carrie's mother, Linda Doolan, had decided to sue him for wrongful death.

Speaker 2 I'm angry.

Speaker 2 And all he's doing is making us more determined to uncover the truth.

Speaker 18 We've got a guy on the street that's a killer, and I wasn't going to let a guy like that outsmart me or outplay me.

Speaker 13 Linda's attorney Bill Johnston and his investigators were hoping any new evidence they might dig up for the civil case would help rebuild a criminal one.

Speaker 11 We have to try to do such a good job

Speaker 18 and have the evidence be so clear and so strong. that a prosecutor looking at it will say, I can do that too.

Speaker 13 And Johnston had an advantage.

Speaker 13 In a civil case, he could depose Matt Baker under oath and on camera.

Speaker 18 He was foolish enough to allow me to.

Speaker 22 Did you have a sexual relationship with any woman in the year

Speaker 22 prior to Kerry's death other than Carrie?

Speaker 13 No.

Speaker 18 He could have played the Fifth Amendment. While you have 911 on the phone, you're dressing her.

Speaker 22 How long did it take to dress her?

Speaker 10 Again, probably just seconds, not very long at all. All All right.

Speaker 18 He clearly described things that were impossible.

Speaker 13 Do you think Matt Baker knows what he's up against? No.

Speaker 8 Underneath her, up first, like this toward me.

Speaker 18 He's used to conning people and having them do what he wants.

Speaker 13 What Matt didn't anticipate was that Crawford Long and fellow prosecutor Susan Schaefer weren't giving up because they too believed Matt killed Carrie. The problem was proving it.

Speaker 6 You get one bite at that apple, and if you get an acquittal, it's over.

Speaker 13 All the evidence prosecutors had was circumstantial. What they really wanted was the testimony of this woman, Vanessa Bowles, whom they suspected was Matt's lover before Carrie died.

Speaker 13 How important is Vanessa Bowles to this case?

Speaker 6 She's key.

Speaker 13 Key because prosecutors believed she knew some of Matt's secrets. So far, Vanessa has had little to say to law enforcement.

Speaker 23 I don't mind talking to y'all, but this is, you know, taking time out of my schedule.

Speaker 13 The only thing she admitted was that she dated Matt and only after Carrie died.

Speaker 4 After.

Speaker 4 After, yes.

Speaker 2 After.

Speaker 23 After his wife passed away.

Speaker 16 After, okay, okay.

Speaker 4 Because I didn't think there was anything wrong.

Speaker 16 Okay.

Speaker 13 Did you believe her? No.

Speaker 13 Prosecutors had the phone records and a jewelry store clerk who saw Matt and Vanessa checking out wedding rings just weeks after Carrie died.

Speaker 24 I wanted a shot at her real bad.

Speaker 13 Working with prosecutors was Abden Rodriguez, a savvy investigator with a reputation for convincing the most reluctant witnesses to talk.

Speaker 24 That's one of my specialties.

Speaker 13 Rodriguez carefully studied Vanessa's interview.

Speaker 12 Did you start to feel like he was kind of pursuing you a little bit?

Speaker 4 I didn't really want to think that because he seemed happily married.

Speaker 24 I could tell she was lying. There was information there, and I could tell that she had, but she didn't want to give it up.

Speaker 13 And for good reason. Rodriguez knew Vanessa had everything to lose if she admitted knowing anything about the crime.

Speaker 23 Why don't y'all have

Speaker 23 then talk to Matt Baker, you know?

Speaker 24 I think we're going to have to break her.

Speaker 12 Matt isn't talking with us anymore.

Speaker 24 Because he's the one that knows exactly what took place here.

Speaker 13 But after interviewing her,

Speaker 13 Vanessa was still holding back. So the prosecution gambled and subpoenaed her to testify before the grand jury.
Was that a little risky?

Speaker 3 We didn't have anything to lose.

Speaker 13 Crawford Long gave Vanessa immunity, promising not to use her testimony against her. Abden Rodriguez added a warning.

Speaker 24 I know what you did.

Speaker 24 I know what you know.

Speaker 24 And I said, you better tell the truth as I'm going to be sitting there.

Speaker 24 And if you perjure yourself, we will turn around and charge you with it.

Speaker 13 But on the stand, Vanessa stuck with her story until this question.

Speaker 3 I said, did Matt ever tell you anything about Carrie's death? And she said, yes.

Speaker 3 he said I killed her for you

Speaker 3 my jaw probably dropped down on my chest matt even told Vanessa how he did it he told her that he had smothered her

Speaker 13 nearly three years after Carrie's death Crawford long had all the proof he needed to finally indict Matt Baker

Speaker 13 Oh my gosh. It was unbelievable news for Linda Doolan.

Speaker 2 I remember just

Speaker 26 falling to my knees and I was crying and I was overwhelmed.

Speaker 13 In March 2009, Matt Baker was rearrested and charged with Carrie's murder.

Speaker 22 How do you wish to plead?

Speaker 7 Not guilty.

Speaker 13 And the state star witness, Vanessa Bowles.

Speaker 24 I don't think she stole everything.

Speaker 24 I know, I know. I mean, there's still more.

Speaker 24 All right.

Speaker 2 The stakes are so high.

Speaker 14 Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 8 Please be seated.

Speaker 2 This is what we had been working for.

Speaker 2 The criminal trial.

Speaker 13 Nearly four years after claiming he found his wife dead.

Speaker 6 Carrie's last day of life was on Friday, April 7th, 2006.

Speaker 13 Matt Baker is now on trial for murder.

Speaker 6 You'll hear Matt Baker say his wife has just committed suicide, that he's found a note, but Matt has a variety of stories about what happened that night.

Speaker 2 Matt was a dangerous man. He had to be stopped before he hurt someone else.

Speaker 13 Carrie's mother, Linda, is surrounded by her family.

Speaker 2 To me, he looked smug.

Speaker 4 He looked like he's going to get away with this.

Speaker 6 You'll hear him repeatedly and consistently say he never had an affair with Vanessa Bulls. You're going to hear from Vanessa Bulls.
You're going to see her.

Speaker 13 Assistant District Attorney Susan Schaefer promises the jury that they will meet the other woman.

Speaker 6 She's going to tell you how Matt brought her into their marital bed while Carrie was still alive.

Speaker 13 Matt has always denied that affair. So no one in the courtroom was quite prepared for what his defense attorney Guy James Gray had to say.

Speaker 20 Matt Baker was in fact having an affair.

Speaker 20 I got fooled. Got fooled by Matt Baker.

Speaker 13 When did you realize that Matt was lying about his involvement with the Nessa Bulls?

Speaker 20 Roughly a month before the trial, something like that.

Speaker 13 How tough was that guy?

Speaker 20 For me, pretty tough. Both of them lied to the families, both of them lied to the cops, and both of them lied to try to cover up this affair.

Speaker 13 That doesn't mean Gray says that Matt killed his wife. Instead, Gray goes on the attack and tells the jury that Carrie was in a precarious emotional state.

Speaker 20 At the time of her death, she took a mixture of medicine.

Speaker 2 I was trying to steal myself for the stories they were going to spin about Carrie.

Speaker 20 She used sleeping pills on a regular basis.

Speaker 2 She wasn't there to defend herself, and that broke my heart.

Speaker 13 Gray also zeroes in on the lack of evidence.

Speaker 20 You've got no physical evidence. You will see a lot of suspicion.
You've got no cause of death.

Speaker 19 You will see a lot of theory.

Speaker 20 You can't even be really certain that it was a murder.

Speaker 3 Was it a suicide? Was it a murder? I describe it as the most difficult case I've ever prosecuted.

Speaker 13 Assistant DA Crawford Long expects to get help from a surprising witness.

Speaker 17 It's all the truth.

Speaker 7 Everything that is from me is the truth.

Speaker 13 Matt Baker himself. Matt was unusually talkative in the years before his trial.
You're not nervous about talking. If it ever goes to trial, something you might say here could be used against you.

Speaker 7 And if it is, then you deal with it at the time.

Speaker 13 And that time is now. Matt's contradictions and lies are coming back to haunt him.

Speaker 13 She was awake.

Speaker 16 Correct.

Speaker 13 She was talking. She said goodbye to you.

Speaker 7 When I left, she was asleep.

Speaker 13 While a defendant can't be forced to to testify, everything Matt said already can be used against him at trial.

Speaker 13 There are interviews with 48 hours. Did you have an affair with Vanessa?

Speaker 7 Oh, no, I did not.

Speaker 13 Civil depositions.

Speaker 10 I proceeded to talk to 911 operator as I put her clothes on her.

Speaker 13 And his statement to police.

Speaker 7 I knew she was depressed. I knew she was down.

Speaker 13 Matt's claim that Carrie was a despondent, dysfunctional parent is disputed by witness. To me, she never seemed better.
After witness, to me, she seemed excited. Even her grief counselor.

Speaker 3 You did not feel that she was suicidal. Is that right?

Speaker 16 That's right. Okay.

Speaker 9 Stay to call Linda Dooland.

Speaker 19 You saw me swear the testimony you give in this matter will three days into the trial.

Speaker 13 Carrie's mom, Linda Doolan, finally comes face to face with a man she is convinced killed her daughter.

Speaker 2 I am

Speaker 26 sorry.

Speaker 2 Mother of Carrie.

Speaker 16 Do you need to take a minute?

Speaker 26 No, I'm okay.

Speaker 2 I apologize. I had this inner dialogue with myself, telling myself to get it together.

Speaker 13 Linda testifies that after her daughter died, Carrie's grief counselor told her that Carrie had found crushed pills in Matt's briefcase. Carrie feared he was going to harm her.

Speaker 13 Linda later confronted Matt.

Speaker 2 He told me that clearly some youth had found his briefcase and spit the pills in there so that they wouldn't have to take them. And that he reported this to

Speaker 2 security.

Speaker 13 Security at the youth center where Matt worked.

Speaker 3 Were you able to make any determination that it was reported?

Speaker 2 It was not reported.

Speaker 13 And there's Matt's claim that in the time it took paramedics to arrive, around four minutes, he managed to dress Carrie in her shirt and panties.

Speaker 17 No, no, no, she's not breathing at all, no pulse or anything.

Speaker 13 Get her to the floor.

Speaker 13 And perform CPR.

Speaker 16 You're going to do it fast. It's hard 400 times.

Speaker 13 All while cradling the phone on his shoulder. Do you believe that he is moving her at all while he's on that 911 call?

Speaker 6 I don't even think he's in the room.

Speaker 13 Pictures taken the night of Carrie's death also contradict Matt's story.

Speaker 22 Would you draw where she was on the bed?

Speaker 13 He told investigators that he found Carrie's body with both arms stretched out flat on the bed.

Speaker 6 He actually drew a diagram of how he claimed her body to be.

Speaker 22 On her back, slightly at an angle, slightly at an angle.

Speaker 11 There's no way.

Speaker 6 No way.

Speaker 13 The proof? Crime scene photos which show an uneven pooling of blood or lividity in Carrie's arms. The fact there was more lividity on her left arm as opposed to her right said what?

Speaker 6 It said that that arm was lower than the rest of her body. Blood sinks to the lowest point.

Speaker 6 So either her head was on the other side of the bed with her left arm hanging off, or her head had to be at the foot of the bed with her left arm hanging off, neither of which was what he described in diagrammed.

Speaker 13 And then there are those computer searches. Matt visited online pharmacies searching for the sleeping pill Ambient.

Speaker 6 Is your business, your internet business, a library or a store?

Speaker 19 We're not in the information business.

Speaker 14 We're purely a commercial business.

Speaker 13 This witness who flew in from Spain says that pharmacy has one purpose.

Speaker 6 The number one reason why you find yourself in in this situation is because you want to buy something.

Speaker 13 He says Matt attempted to buy a generic form of ambien and placed it in his online shopping cart. But when cross-examined by Defense Attorney Gray.

Speaker 20 They went through the process of looking at it, but it was aborted and no purchase of ambiene was made.

Speaker 16 Correct?

Speaker 20 Yes.

Speaker 5 No further question.

Speaker 13 And there's no evidence that he bought ambient anywhere else or that he forced Carrie to take that or any other drug.

Speaker 20 If there is not clear-cut proof, then we don't convict.

Speaker 19 Do you solemnly swear the testimony you give in this matter to be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Speaker 13 But the defense's biggest challenge is yet to come. I do.
When the state star witness takes the stand.

Speaker 20 We had no knowledge of what she would say until she testified in the courtroom.

Speaker 4 You really need to turn yourself in, or I'm going to tell what you did. And he said,

Speaker 13 you better not do that.

Speaker 25 Hey there, we're Corinne Vienne and Sabrina Deanna Roga here to introduce our newest podcast, Crimes of A Crime House Original.

Speaker 27 Crimes of is a weekly series that explores a new theme each season, from Crimes of the Paranormal, Unsolved Murders, and more.

Speaker 27 Our first season is Crimes of Infamy, the true crime stories behind Hollywood's most iconic horror villains.

Speaker 25 Listen to and follow Crimes of, available now wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 20 This witness is a pretty woman.

Speaker 6 Would you please state your name for the record?

Speaker 4 Yes, it's Vanessa Bowles.

Speaker 20 She obviously loved the attention.

Speaker 4 I was raised strict, Southern Baptist.

Speaker 18 She was a mistress of a preacher.

Speaker 6 Now, you're not saying that at that time you were pure as the driven snow, right?

Speaker 13 Oh, no.

Speaker 18 That's not good anywhere around here. That's really not good.

Speaker 13 Four days into Matt Baker's trial, the moment everyone has been waiting for.

Speaker 2 For the first time, we were going to hear exactly what happened.

Speaker 13 On the stand, the prosecution's star witness, the self-confident, almost smug 27-year-old teacher Vanessa Bowles were you worried the jury might really dislike her oh yeah we were very aware of that problem going in

Speaker 13 assistant DA Susan Schaefer has another problem with the witness there was a lot available for attack by the defense did you tell the truth about the affair i know i didn't admit to it For years, Vanessa Bowles lied to everyone about her relationship with Matt Baker.

Speaker 13 The jury might just dismiss her as a liar. Sure.

Speaker 4 I completely denied everything.

Speaker 13 But you were willing to go with us.

Speaker 6 We believed that this was, in fact, the true story.

Speaker 4 One time I was sitting by myself in the church.

Speaker 13 Vanessa begins by telling the jury how she met Matt at church in the fall of 2005.

Speaker 4 He came in and he just sat down, started talking to me, and said, whoever finds you is going to be a lucky man.

Speaker 13 Vanessa was a single mom going through a divorce.

Speaker 4 He said that, you know, he'd counseled people with divorce before. He said, he's lost a child, and God could get you through anything.

Speaker 13 She says Matt often complained about Carrie.

Speaker 4 His wife was so depressed. He said she was a horrible mother, a horrible wife.
They didn't have sex anymore.

Speaker 6 And at the time, were you buying into what he was telling you about Carrie?

Speaker 4 I was buying into everything.

Speaker 13 In early March 2006, Matt invited Vanessa to continue counseling at his house.

Speaker 4 He asked if he could hold my hands to pray,

Speaker 4 and he did.

Speaker 4 Then afterwards, he started to kiss me.

Speaker 4 Then he just took my hand and led me to the bedroom.

Speaker 13 It was the first time she says they had sex.

Speaker 4 I was extremely remorseful. I couldn't believe what just happened.

Speaker 13 But still, the affair continued, and so did Matt's bitterness towards his wife.

Speaker 4 He referred to her as a fat bitch, said that he wanted her out of his life.

Speaker 13 Just a few weeks later, Carrie was dead. Within days, Vanessa says, Matt told her exactly how he did it.

Speaker 4 He said, I'm going to tell you what happened that night one time.

Speaker 4 Then he said, I never want to talk about it again.

Speaker 13 Under the guise of a romantic evening, Matt gave Carrie a mix of wine coolers and pills he said were sex stimulants he said he handcuffed her to the bed and started kissing her and touching her all over until she fell asleep but vanessa says matt had filled the capsules with crushed ambient to knock his wife out he said he kissed her on the forehead and either said give cassidy a hug for me or give cassidy a kiss for me

Speaker 4 Then he said he got the pillow and put it over her face.

Speaker 13 Matt thought Carrie was dead, Vanessa says. So he was startled when Carrie suddenly gasped for air.

Speaker 4 He said, oh shit.

Speaker 4 And then he said he put the pillow on her face, but then he said he did this with his hand where her nose was, so he would be sure to suffocate her.

Speaker 26 I know what my child was screaming inside of her head.

Speaker 26 She was screaming out for her babies.

Speaker 16 I know that.

Speaker 16 I know that.

Speaker 13 Even more devastating for Linda Doolin, her daughter didn't have to die. Vanessa admits she knew Matt was plotting to kill Carrie.

Speaker 4 He talked about maybe putting something in a milkshake, making it look like she'd hung herself, maybe doing a drive-by shooting, make it look like she overdosed on sleeping pills, tampering with the brakes of her car.

Speaker 13 Vanessa even knew the day Matt intended to murder his wife, April 7th, 2006.

Speaker 6 And you didn't report that to anybody? No.

Speaker 13 Vanessa could have saved your daughter.

Speaker 2 Yes, I know it.

Speaker 13 She knew what day your daughter was going to die. No.

Speaker 2 And she never told anybody. I know.

Speaker 13 Two weeks later, a smiling Vanessa Bowles was by Matt's side, helping to chaperone Kenzie's 10th birthday party.

Speaker 6 Has it not occurred to you that if he killed one wife, he might kill another?

Speaker 4 I thought he would, but he promised me that he would be so happy that he would never do that.

Speaker 13 She continued dating him and kept her mouth shut.

Speaker 4 Not only had I known about this and not done the right thing, in truth, who would believe me?

Speaker 4 He was a preacher.

Speaker 4 And so I felt like I was stuck.

Speaker 13 And even after she broke up with Matt months later, when police began looking into Carrie's death.

Speaker 4 He started saying, I killed my wife for you, and now you're leaving.

Speaker 13 Vanessa says she was afraid to talk.

Speaker 4 At that point, I was worried that he would come after me and put a bullet in my head to be blunt.

Speaker 20 If what she said was the truth, it was pretty dramatic and pretty damning.

Speaker 13 But Matt Baker's lawyer, Guy James Gray, says Vanessa is a liar, pure and simple.

Speaker 20 I don't believe much of what she said.

Speaker 13 And when it's his turn to cross-examine Vanessa, Mr. Gray, Gray attacks her credibility.

Speaker 20 Was that statement true or not true?

Speaker 4 It was absolutely false. I was untruthful.
I was still keeping that part in. I'm pretty sure I denied that completely.

Speaker 13 Isn't it possible that Vanessa Bowles is finally telling the truth?

Speaker 20 Possible, sure.

Speaker 16 Not very likely, though.

Speaker 19 Mr. Gray, call your first witness.

Speaker 13 When the defense presents its case, Gray only calls one witness, a forensic expert who speculates that traces of DNA found on the suicide note might be Carrie's.

Speaker 20 Out of all of the people that you tested, which one had the highest probability of a touch?

Speaker 14 Carrie Baker appears to have the highest number.

Speaker 20 Nothing for the jury.

Speaker 13 Gray hopes this will create doubt in the minds of the jurors.

Speaker 20 If the primary source of DNA on that piece of paper was Carrie Baker's, then she must have taken her own life.

Speaker 28 It's now in the hands of the jury.

Speaker 14 The jury started deliberating this afternoon.

Speaker 3 I felt we had proven our case.

Speaker 14 By now we're waiting for the jury to return a verdict.

Speaker 3 I was concerned how the jury would feel about Manasseh.

Speaker 28 Seven women and five men now deciding if the former preacher is guilty of killing his wife.

Speaker 13 As they deliberate into the night.

Speaker 9 We have a note from the jury.

Speaker 13 The jurors have a series of questions for the judge.

Speaker 9 Is it possible for us to see Matt Baker's complete deposition video?

Speaker 2 It made me very, very nervous.

Speaker 9 We've received another note from the jury.

Speaker 6 We were concerned.

Speaker 9 Do we have to find guilt by use of drugs and suffocating?

Speaker 6 It was frightening.

Speaker 9 Can we have a transcript of Vanessa Bull's testimony, please?

Speaker 18 Geez, you know, it may be that they can't figure it out.

Speaker 2 As the hours went on,

Speaker 2 I became more nervous.

Speaker 2 I went off by myself and just prayed a lot.

Speaker 18 Oh my gosh, what if? What if they don't convict him?

Speaker 11 What do you do?

Speaker 3 You're always nervous until they come back in. There's no such thing as a slam dunk.

Speaker 13 Especially in this case, after prosecutors lost their chance to put Matt Baker on the hot seat.

Speaker 20 It's the only case I've ever tried that I didn't put my client on the stand.

Speaker 13 Defense attorney Guy James Gray couldn't risk it, he says, and for good reason.

Speaker 20 They had a trap, you know.

Speaker 13 The trap? This fireman's dummy at just about Carrie's weight when she died. This is very close to what Matt faced trying to move Carrie.
Yes, quite close. The prosecution's plan?

Speaker 13 To have Matt Baker demonstrate in front of the jury what he claims he did after he found his wife dead and naked in their bed.

Speaker 15 911, do you have an emergency?

Speaker 7 When I'm on the phone with operator, I'm putting her clothes on her and taking her off the bed.

Speaker 13 Phone to the shoulder. Her lips are blue.

Speaker 8 Her hands are cold.

Speaker 13 Dressing her without sounding out of breath.

Speaker 17 No, no, no, she's not breathing at all. No pulse or anything.

Speaker 16 All right. Okay.

Speaker 13 Once he says that he has her dressed.

Speaker 16 Okay, put her on the floor. Correct.

Speaker 13 He has to move her.

Speaker 13 How did you get her off the bed?

Speaker 7 I put my hands under her shoulders and pulled her.

Speaker 16 He

Speaker 13 moved her?

Speaker 6 There's a reason that the term dead weight is used.

Speaker 13 I'm going to need your help.

Speaker 13 And all this is happening in what period of time?

Speaker 6 Oh, I measured it at a little less than 90 seconds.

Speaker 3 I don't know that Houdini could have done that, and I didn't think he could either.

Speaker 13 Because Matt didn't testify, the jury never got to see him do the demonstration. And as the hours ticked by,

Speaker 13 it seems like Gray made a wise call keeping Matt off the stand generally the longer the time is better for the defendant more than seven hours go by

Speaker 13 all right bring in the jury and finally Jurors reach a verdict.

Speaker 9 We, the jury, find the defendant, Matt D. Baker, guilty of the offense of murder.

Speaker 13 Guilty of first-degree murder.

Speaker 2 I felt absolute relief that Matt Baker would never again be in a position to take a life or destroy lives.

Speaker 13 What did you tell your client?

Speaker 20 Since the day he walked in my office and told me he was lying, I talked to him only for strict legal necessities and I had no other conversations.

Speaker 13 Incredibly, the attorney who once so believed in his client stopped trusting Matt once he confessed to the affair.

Speaker 20 You cannot be a good lawyer for somebody if you don't believe them. And that's the position I was in.

Speaker 13 Prior to trial, Gray had asked to be taken off the case.

Speaker 20 I gave them my advice. They needed to go get a different lawyer to handle it.
I did not want to be there.

Speaker 13 But Matt insisted that Gray remain his lawyer.

Speaker 20 The judge made me be there, and they requested that I be there, and I did my duty.

Speaker 13 Guy, are you sorry you took on this case?

Speaker 16 Oh, yes.

Speaker 20 I've never in my life been

Speaker 20 forced to go to trial in a case that I didn't think I was on the right side.

Speaker 20 The hardest thing I've ever done.

Speaker 13 Still, Gray says he defended Matt the best he could under the circumstances.

Speaker 20 I still think I did a decent, credible lawyer job, but I had no heart in it.

Speaker 13 At sentencing, Linda Doolan gets the last word.

Speaker 2 I'm talking to you, Matt, today, okay? You haven't looked at me in almost four years. Can you look at me today?

Speaker 2 You murdered the mother of your children.

Speaker 2 But the most tragic victims, Matt, are Kinsey and Grace. Those sweet, sweet babies.

Speaker 13 Matt Baker's sentence?

Speaker 13 65 years with the possibility of parole. Are you finally ready to admit that you killed your wife?

Speaker 19 No, because I didn't.

Speaker 7 I did not suffocate, did not shove pills down her throat, did not do anything to hurt my wife.

Speaker 13 You're saying the Vanessa Bulls lied about it all?

Speaker 7 Absolutely.

Speaker 13 Why would she lie about this?

Speaker 7 She thought she was going to be with me and I walked away from the relationship and she was upset and mad.

Speaker 13 How How close did Matt Baker come to getting away with murder?

Speaker 6 Incredibly close.

Speaker 3 If the Doolands hadn't pursued him, he certainly would have.

Speaker 13 The Doolands ordeal was not over yet. Kenzie and Grace were still living with Matt's parents.

Speaker 2 Any reaction to Matt order? They've been taught to hate us.

Speaker 2 We were portrayed as the people who caused their father to go to prison.

Speaker 13 A year and a half after Matt went to prison, Jim and Linda were back in court, seeking custody of their granddaughters.

Speaker 2 The odds were not in our favor.

Speaker 13 To their surprise, they won.

Speaker 2 This is Grace's room. This is her hangout.

Speaker 13 Now they say their home is the girls' home.

Speaker 2 Grace is 12. She loves the arts and she's in band and she plays the piano.
Kinsey will be 17 next week.

Speaker 2 She is very excited about the prospect of college. She's a hoot to be around.
All we want

Speaker 2 now is for the girls to be teenagers. And we never want them to feel like they have to choose who to love.

Speaker 9 I live with three women.

Speaker 9 And the other night, they were all laughing and giggling and just having a grand old time.

Speaker 16 That

Speaker 9 was a symphony.

Speaker 2 I see Carrie.

Speaker 2 I see her every day in her daughters.

Speaker 2 She would be relishing

Speaker 2 what we're experiencing.