Post Mortem | Help Find Molly Bish's Killer

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Welcome to Postmortem.

I'm your host, Anne-Marie Green, and today we're discussing the case of Molly Bish, a 16-year-old lifeguard who disappeared from a local pond in Warren, Massachusetts on June 27, 2000.

Her remains were found three years later, but the big question still lingers today, which is who killed Molly Bish? Her sister, Heather, has taken to TikTok. pleading for leads.

So joining me now to talk about this case is 48 Hours correspondent, Erin Moriarty. Thanks for joining us again, Erin.
Oh, well, I love being here, but a little warning.

This is a tough tough story to talk about, an important story, but it's tough. It is.
And before we get into it, if you have not listened to this episode yet, head on over to your podcast feed.

The full audio version of this episode of 48 Hours is here. It's in your podcast feed right beneath this one.
Go listen and then come on over for this conversation.

And yes, Erin, this is a tough one because unlike a lot of the cases that we do for 48 Hours, you know, there isn't a resolution yet. We don't know who's responsible for her murder.

48 Hours actually covered this case back in 2003. Why revisit it now? Well, one thing, 48 Hours, we stick with stories for a long time until they are resolved.

But most important is there's an unidentified killer. And what happened to Molly, nobody wants to happen to any other child.
And so it is important to try to get answers in this case.

Plus, there have been updates, important updates since we first aired this story.

Number one, there's a person of interest. There had never been a person of interest named.
And there's also a new detective who was assigned the case, who is going to give new eyes to the evidence.

And it's the 25th anniversary.

And I think most police officers will tell you and investigators will tell you that when you go go back on a story, when there's an anniversary, there's always a chance that you'll get new tips.

And this story is worth pursuing. Yeah, and you know, Erin, one of the things that we have noticed with some cases that have gone unsolved for even decades, you know, things change.
People get older.

They may decide to come forward. So you never know

who may remember something that they had buried that may help with this case once they hear about the hour.

So just to remind people, on the morning of June 27th, 2000, Molly's mom, Maggie, dropped her off at Cummins Pond after 9.50 a.m., where Molly was working as a lifeguard.

Shortly after that, beachgoers arrived, but Molly was not there. Police were eventually called to the scene, but Maggie wasn't notified until Molly had been missing for three hours.

First question, why did they wait so long to tell her family that she was missing? I think they didn't want to overly alarm her family.

They thought, hey, maybe she just walked off with friends and took too long. Think back to 2000, of course.
This was 25 years ago. Warren is a small town.

I think a lot of people kid themselves, but they think these things don't happen in a small town.

I think that,

sadly, they didn't have a plan in place. I don't think it occurred to anyone this would happen.

In fact, with hindsight, you look back, she actually had a police radio that she went to pick up, and she's supposed to call in and check in.

And I don't think anybody noticed that she didn't, or it's possible she never got a chance to, because we do know that whatever happened to her happened to her within minutes, a very short period of time.

I got to tell you, one of the things that sort of struck me being the mom of a semi-newly minted teenager is that I was surprised she was working at the pond alone.

I have to agree with you, Anne-Marie. That was concerning.

I was a lifeguard many years before that, and I was never alone.

Not because anyone feared I was going to get kidnapped, but because if I had to go in, and I did have to do that once, go in for a child, someone else has to be there to call the alarm to help me bring the child in if the child needs CPR, anything like that.

So it really surprised me that she would be alone there.

So here's the thing, though. Once they determine that she's missing, I mean, they really do spring into action.
There's an extensive search that's launched.

Hundreds of tips start flooding in after police release a sketch. It is a description that Maggie gives them of a man that she remembers seeing in the parking lot.

He has a white car with him and he's at Cummings Pond the day before Molly disappeared. What about this man really stuck out to Maggie?

Well, according to Maggie, here's this man sitting in this white car.

Usually families go there to go swimming and he's just sitting there smoking a cigarette with his left hand.

Clearly, it was a little bit of mother's instinct and just like concern, why is he there? She tried to put it out of her head, but it just kept bugging her.

So that night, she was concerned enough that she raised it with Molly. And Molly, just as 16-year-olds might do, said, oh, mom, he's probably a fisherman.

And she just kind of dismissed it, but it clearly bugged Maggie.

But then the next day, when Maggie did drop Molly off, there was nobody sitting there. So I think it was after her daughter disappeared that she realized, oh, that really may have been important.

So after three years, there was a breakthrough in the case. Police are notified that there's a blue bathing suit that was found about five miles from Cummins Pond.

It resembles the one that Molly was wearing on the day she disappeared. You interviewed a local reporter, Kathy Curran, who described what that moment was like for Maggie and John Bish.

And it was, you know, obviously very emotional for them as parents, that kind of realization that if you're finding the bathing suit and you're not finding her, this is not a good sign.

But what I was surprised about was how emotional Kathy was.

They trusted Kathy. That's the benefit of reporters staying on a story from the beginning and staying on it.
They trusted her and they needed to have that information.

And let's be honest, as we also know, police sometimes and investigators don't share everything with the family. And the family wanted to know, and they pushed Kathy to tell them.

And I think she struggled with it. And that's why she's tearful.
But

they wanted to know. Yeah.
And I think, you know, when you're a journalist

and you know that maybe you have an awareness of news that will be heartbreaking to the family, it's really difficult to determine what the right thing to do is in that moment, but it certainly seems like, you know, Maggie and her husband were appreciative to get that opportunity to know, you know, what police already knew.

That is one of the most moving parts of the hour when we realize that a mother is about to face reality. If you didn't have that bathing suit, you always had hope.

And that bathing suit meant there was no more more hope. Yeah.

So another really fascinating person that you spoke to during this hour was Dr. Ann Marie Myers.
She is a forensic anthropologist who works for the Boston Medical Examiner's Office.

I had never heard of a forensic anthropologist before. I mean, how rare is it to come across one of those? Well, it's not as rare anymore.

I mean, I've run into the forensic anthropologist on quite a number of stories, very similar to this.

What happens is, you know, investigators are determined not just to solve the case, but also, especially when someone's missing, to bring that person back to his or her family.

But sometimes it's difficult, I mean, after, in this case, just three years.

to determine whether first if bones are found, whether they are animal or human. And that's something a forensic anthropologist can do right away.

I should also talk a little bit about the search, which is really interesting to me. And that was organized by the anthropologist.

It's a grid search when they're looking for bones. And so you see these lines of police officers and investigators and volunteers who are going with rakes and walking, looking for even tiny bones.

So they have to just really scour.

every part of that area. And we're talking about 35 acres.
So it did take days and weeks to do that and one other thing I thought was so interesting that we learned from dr.

Myers is that when someone disappears she tells investigators if you're in a urban area that person could be found within a mile and a half radius in a rural area it's going to be maybe up to five miles and guess what in this case molly was found about five miles away from Cummins Pond.

She was spot on. But also, she was able to tell us that this young woman, Molly, was left there, but wasn't buried there.

And you're about to hear something that we didn't even air in our hour, why that matters. We could tell that she was placed there because

the fluids from decomposition are so caustic, okay,

that they

burn the foliage. It literally doesn't allow the foliage to grow for a while.
So you could actually see

an imprint of her body. You could see an imprint.
Three years later. Even three years later, because the foliage had not recovered from that, where she was.

They did not find all the remains. They found up to 27 bones and her skull.
And why it matters that you could determine whether she was actually buried or laid there was Dr.

Meyer said it's very likely that the person who killed Molly and left her there was in a rush.

And Dr. Myers also believed that it happened very shortly after she disappeared and was murdered.

And then sadly, and this was something else Dr. Myers told us,

is that there was a large animal there who scattered the bones and made it so difficult for searchers to find Molly.

So, you know, once bones are found, the Bish family are able to have a funeral. But what I thought was really interesting about something that Molly's mom, Maggie, said,

it stuck out to me. She said she felt blessed that she could have a funeral in a church.
Anne-Marie, I think what she was also saying was that she had her baby back.

They are religious

and they

relied on their faith and have always relied on their faith to get through this. But I think it was also the idea, we see this time and time again.

There's nothing worse, nothing worse for a family than when someone disappears and they are not found. And they at least knew where Molly was and they could go visit Molly.
And it was a huge funeral.

So they got the comfort of the entire community coming out,

mourning with them. But, you know, anyone who watches this hour, you'll see almost the entire time Maggie cries through the interview.
So the pain is still there.

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Hey, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. You know, one of the perks about having four kids that you know about is actually getting a direct line to the big man up north.

And this year, he wants you to know the best gift that you can give someone is the gift of Mint Mobile's unlimited wireless for $15 a month. Now, you don't even need to wrap it.

Give it a try at mintmobile.com/slash switch. Upfront payment of $45 for a three-month plan equivalent to $15 per month required.
New customer offer for first three months only.

Speed slow after 35 gigabytes if network's busy. Taxes and fees extra.
See Mintmobile.com.

Welcome back. In May of 2004, four years after Molly disappeared, then DA John Conte called for a grand jury to be convened.

Now, according to the Bish family, who were called to testify, many of the questions focused on Molly's friends. But then, two years later, the grand jury was dismissed without an indictment.

This seems unusual to me, Aaron. Well, dissolving after two years, that's a long time, but the whole thing was rare.
Let's be honest. Your instincts are right.

Usually, grand juries are used so that prosecutors who think they're very very close to being able to bring charges will bring in witnesses where they think they can get probable cause or enough probable cause to convince a judge that they should be able to bring charges against someone.

That's what grand juries are usually used for.

But there are investigative grand juries, and that's what, in fact, the now current DA, Joe Early, says this was for.

And that is possible because the the benefit of a grand jury is that you can pull people in who don't want to talk and they have to. There's a subpoena

and they have to tell the truth because they're under oath. So

it's very possible that this was from the beginning an investigative grand jury.

Two years is a long time and very expensive, but because all the testimony is sealed, we really can't tell exactly what happened, happened, but we do know that it is unusual and no indictments came out of it.

I mean, for the Bish family, it must have been incredibly frustrating.

They are sitting there, they're hearing all these questions about Molly's friends, and I'm sure they're wondering, well, what do they know that we should know?

And then at the end of two years, they really get no answers.

And not only do they not get answers from the grand jury and they can't find out what people said, but the investigators aren't telling them much either. And you and I both know this, Anne-Marie.

This happens all the time because investigators are always worried if they say something to the family, the family's going to tell friends and it's going to get out.

So it was very, very difficult for the family, as you can imagine. Heather was so frustrated.

She's the older sister. She doesn't have answers and she wants answers like everybody else.
Wow.

And this is what's particularly impressive about Heather because she is, of course, a very vocal advocate. She's been so throughout the years, but she wants to raise public awareness about this case.

And she does something that is sort of not natural for her to do. She heads to TikTok.
She does head to TikTok. And you and I are both seeing that more and more now.

Heather so much believes that she might be able to keep this case alive and get tips that as of now, she's done about 250 videos think about that and has 12,000 followers but even before there was TikTok Heather was already on the case and she would get tips from people and bring them to the police she heard about a man who had been charged with killing his girlfriend in Florida a guy by the name of Rodney Stanger who was familiar with Warren Massachusetts but had moved to Florida And the victim's sister had actually reached out and said he might be involved in Molly's murder.

And so that was one of the tips that Heather gave police. And it turned out that Rodney Sanger had been on their radar.
And in fact, they went and talked to him and later searched his trailer.

And then later on, a private investigator told Heather about a man by the name of Gerald Battistoni,

who also had an extensive police record. And in fact, again, Heather found out that he was also someone that they had looked at from the beginning.

And we want to remind our listeners that there was not enough evidence to name Rodney Stanger or Gerald Battistoni as suspects.

It does take you know, more than two decades after Molly disappears. It's June 3rd, 2021, and police actually do name a person of interest.
His name is Frank Sumner.

We learned in the hour that he's a local auto repair shop owner. He looks like that police sketch.
He resembles it.

He has access or had access to a white car, and he was previously convicted of rape and kidnapping. And

smoking with the left hand. Right.

That to me is so significant. I mean, that just stays in your head when you watch the hour.
But I should point out a little bit of background on Sumner.

He was convicted back in 1982 for aggravated rape and kidnapping after luring a woman to an apartment, choking her, and then threatening to kill her and raping her.

He was paroled in 1998, which was two years before Molly disappeared.

And after his release, he accumulated a lengthy criminal record over 20 pages long that included multiple charges, failure to register as a sex offender, disorderly conduct, and harassment.

And all those were still pending when he died. And

after

the current DA had named Frank Sumner as a person of interest, Sumner's family became very upset and they said, you know,

where's the proof? You know,

we have a large family, you know, we all share his name. Where's the proof? The DA tried to compare Sumner's DNA with DNA found at the crime scene.

But the problem was Sumner was cremated and somehow they had never taken his DNA while he was in prison. It was not in the FBI CODA system.

So

they sent investigators to Ohio and they took the DNA of his son. And then

a year or so, they announced that it's inconclusive, but won't explain what that means. That is so disappointing.

Clearly, you know, CODIS has its limitations because it's only a certain pool of individuals that are going to be found in CODIS.

But you would think somebody convicted of rape, it would be guaranteed that his DNA would be on file somewhere. Right, but you know what? Some of the older cases, they weren't doing DNA back then.

I think it's more common now that they're making sure that

particularly people convicted of very serious crimes have their DNA in the system.

But I think that there's still a lot of hope as we've seen in so many cases recently as the testing for DNA gets better. I think the big question in this case is do they even have the killer's DNA?

If you remember the three hours of a delay before they really took this as a kidnapping, not just a young woman who disappeared. So you had a contaminated crime scene.

And so while investigators did pick up cigarette butts and picked up everything, do they actually

have DNA evidence from the killer? You actually went someplace really interesting for this hour. You visited the Massachusetts State Police Crime Labs DNA cold storage facility.
What was that like?

Well, I had never been, number one, in a storage facility like that. That was so cold.
And it gave me great comfort to see how much evidence has been preserved.

And what we also learned while we were there is that as DNA tests improve, then that means that some of the evidence that they think is most important or could be important can be tested.

I mean, even though it's been decades, there's at least one person who is confident that Molly's killer will be found. And it's a new detective, Detective Chelsea Safford.

She was hired to take over the Bish investigation. I mean, she was very clear

that she believes that she will find, they will find Molly's killer. I appreciate the confidence.
What I kept on thinking was, well, what are you going to do differently?

Well, you know, I know this sounds a little cliche, but she is going to add fresh eyes.

And I have seen that where young investigators, she's young, she's a woman, might bring new ideas, might find something. She's going back through, she said there were like 8,000 tips that had come in.

She's going back through those to see if there's a tip that maybe now, 25 years later, you look at and you go, oh my God.

And so, you know, I appreciate her optimism and it's important for the community and it's important for the family.

I'm hoping for the family and everyone that is so invested in this that there is an end to this case and 48 hours can do that follow-up as well. Thank you so much for talking with us, Aaron.

Well, it's always great talking about these cases and they stay in our hearts for a long time. Yeah.

And thank you all for listening. If you like this podcast, please rate and review on Apple Podcast or Spotify.

And if you have any information that can help authorities find Molly's killer, please reach out to the Molly Bish tip line. That number is 508-453-7575.

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