A Walking Tour with Mr. Memphis

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This is 99% Invisible.

I'm Roman Mars, and I'm here with producer Chris Perubé.

Hey, Chris.

Hey, Roman.

How's it going?

I'm doing good.

So earlier this week, we heard your story about the Memphis Pyramid, which is

maybe the strangest building in America, and it just got stranger and stranger as the more we talked about it.

But now you have this bonus episode for us.

Yes.

I have to justify the cost of staying in the Pyramid Hotel for three days.

So I've created some extra material here.

But before we start, okay, for folks listening, if you haven't heard the Memphis Pyramid episode, do that first.

Okay.

This episode will only make sense if you've heard both.

I mean, there's a couple of references that are pretty specific.

So I'd say go back and listen to that.

But before we get into it, Roman, you actually know Memphis really well, right?

Like, what is your connection to Memphis?

Yeah, my mom's family is from Memphis.

And so I was sort of on and off growing up there.

We lived in a different state most of the time, but I was there for summers and holidays.

And then in my 20s, I lived there for a stretch delivering pizzas in Midtown.

And

so I know Memphis very well.

So listeners in Memphis, if you got a pizza delivered by Roman Mars and you want your money back, now you know we're going to reach us.

So, Roman, for my time in Memphis, you know, I spent a lot of time in the pyramid, as we discussed.

There was a whole day there where I didn't see sunlight.

But I also spent a lot of time with a guy named Jimmy Ogle.

Now, do you remember Jimmy from the Pyramid episode?

Oh, yes.

He was perfect, perfect Tennessee accent.

Yes, he's our historian, right?

Like we talked to him.

He used to be the historian for Shelby County, an instant fan favorite, in my opinion.

And when I was working on this story, like a lot of people said to me, like, you have to talk to Jimmy.

He knows everything about the history of Memphis.

Because, of course, he was a historian.

But also, he has like maybe the most eventful resume I have ever seen.

Like here's here's just what he said when I asked him to introduce himself for the episode.

Well, hi.

I'm Jimmy Ogle, and I had the privilege of working in downtown Memphis for 40 years in various public attractions like Mud Island and the Mississippi River Museum, ran the Memphis Queenline Riverboat Company, five passenger vessels,

Bill Street, the operations of Bill Street, the Memphis Rock and Solar Smithsonian Museum about the history of Memphis music, the Bill Street landing project, landing the big riverboats.

I was a Shelby County historian.

I gave walking tours up and down the sidewalks and PowerPoint presentations every day of the year, it seemed like.

And my final job, I was duck master at the Peabody Hotel and a clock operator at the FedEx Forum for the basketball game.

So I had a lot of neat things I got to do and great experience.

I'm the luckiest Memphian ever to live.

Oh, my goodness.

That's a lot.

Right.

Usually, when we do those, it's like, can you introduce yourself?

It's like, I'm such and such, and I'm a professor.

Like, that's it.

but what a life my gosh yeah you know i i probably understood more of those than the average person understood those little jobs that he took so but let's talk about a few of them so he he says he was the clock operator for the the nba team that's right yeah he ran the score clock for the memphis grizzlies so he did that in the pyramid and then he also did that once they moved to the fedex forum yeah and he and he ran beal street i'm not sure what running beal street means yes he was like the administrator of beal street like he was in charge of stuff because there's lots of stuff uh if you don't know beal street it's the big tourist street in Memphis.

There's lots of like blues bars, things like that.

But there's also, you know, it has a bunch of historical markers.

It has kind of their version of the Walk of Fame.

Yeah.

So he was in charge of all of that for a while.

That's awesome.

But my favorite one that you might have missed if you do not know this history is that he was the duck master at the Peabody.

So this I have seen in action many, many times.

I went to like a prom at the Peabody.

When I go to Memphis, I like to stay in the Peabody Hotel.

It's an older hotel.

It has a kind of like charm and majesty of it.

You can have afternoon tea there.

But the thing about the Peabody Hotel is they have ducks that live on the roof.

And every day the ducks do this walk down to the fountain in the lobby.

Yes.

And then at the end of the day, they're walked back up with a person in like, you know, a fancy kind of like coat and tails.

And that's just amazing that Jimmy did that.

That's just like, that is a one-of-a-kind job.

Yeah.

I mean, it is considered like a high honor to be the duck master.

Yeah, I mean, it sounds like Jimmy has had every cool and interesting job there is in Memphis.

Oh my gosh, no, it's amazing.

And he is a true repository for like all information about the history of Memphis.

I got about 150 hours in my head.

I got to talk real fast and tell you about.

So we're going to touch on some of them.

But it's, there's no city in the world that tells the story of American history better than Memphis, Tennessee.

So I reached out to Jimmy.

We did the interview.

We actually did the interview in my hotel room inside the pyramid.

And afterwards, he was like, you know, what are you doing with the rest of your Wednesday?

Like, can I give you a tour?

Like, he used to give these walking tours and he offered to drive me around.

And I got about 10 hours of audio.

Like, he kind of took me everywhere.

So, Roman, today I am here to present you with the highlights from my tour of Memphis by Jimmy Ogle.

I picked out some of the 99PI-friendly greatest hits.

Are you ready?

I am so ready.

This is amazing.

Thank you so much for doing this.

Okay, let's do it.

So, Roman, I want to start with some kind of hardcore 99 PI stuff.

So, when Jimmy was county historian, he used to give a ton of walking tours, as I said, including a tour of Memphis manhole covers.

Oh my God, it's like a dream come true for me.

Okay, so yeah, let's hear it.

So, at one point, we decided to stop and just like look at some manhole covers.

One of the 157 different kinds of manhole covers in downtown Memphis out of 2,000, by the way.

Three different shapes, round, square, and rectangular, seven different usages: light, gas, water, telephone,

traffic signal, storm drain, and

communications.

I love this man.

I thought you might.

So we're walking around, and we stop at this one particular cover that Jimmy really wanted to show me.

So here is a man, a very ornate old manhole cover, over 100 years old.

Something Jimmy pointed out to me is how in Memphis, the manhole covers all look different, obviously.

And even on the same block, you'll see a bunch of manhole covers that have completely different branding.

Cumberland Telephone and Telegraph, okay?

Yeah.

Here is Western Union Telephone Company.

Of course, you can't see it with the audio here.

You come way over here, about what, 10 paces away, you have

Memphis Telephone Company.

Why would you have three different telephone companies manhole covers within 20 feet of each other?

Why?

That's a very good question.

Why do they have that?

So it turns out these covers, they were for different local telecoms from about a century ago.

And back then, if you signed up for a telecom company, you were only signing up for one service and you could only call other people who had the same telecom.

So they all basically just had their own infrastructure.

And that's what these manhole covers represent.

The early years, you had independent operators.

So if you got a telephone at the turn of the century in the 1920s, you had to pick one of three exchanges and you could only talk to the person on your exchange.

So if your friends had Western Union, but you had Cumberland, you couldn't talk to them, or you'd have to have two different phone sets or three to talk to all your friends.

So of course, after the 20s, consolidation starts to happen.

The system becomes more regulated.

And if you're in Memphis, you may still notice these manhole covers.

They are the last vestige of the great Memphis telecom wars.

So obviously, Memphis has a lot of history.

Roman, you would know that coming from Memphis.

Absolutely.

Everywhere you go, you can't really avoid it.

Yeah, a lot of it around music, a lot of it around civil rights.

It's really like a place that's rich in history.

Good, you know, both very good and very sad.

Absolutely.

Like the MLK assassination happened in Memphis, right?

And you have a lot there commemorating that, but lots of joyful things as well, like Aretha Franklin's birthplace is in Memphis, for example.

And the city really plays up the historical element with the street names.

So there was a moment in the tour.

So Jimmy's driving around, he pulls over and he says, look, we got to see this intersection.

And look, if we go up in here real quick and you jump out of the car, we're going to let you take a picture at the intersection of King and King.

Roman, do you know what this is?

The intersection of King and King?

Yes, I think I do know what this is.

This is the intersection of Martin Luther King and BB King Boulevard, I believe.

That is exactly correct.

And this is right downtown.

And the two of them intersect.

Like, it's a place where you actually see a lot of people pulling over to take a photo with the two street signs because they have basically the same name.

It's King and King.

It's the only King and King intersection in the country.

You go look that up, too.

A couple blocks away from this there's actually another street which i am convinced actually is totally unique in the united states in terms of naming so it involves your beloved tennessee valley authority

so on november the 6th 1934 we voted to join tva powers they took this alley called maiden lane and made it November the 6th, 1934 Street.

Yeah.

And right now you only see November the 6th on it.

You don't see 1934.

So the street is literally named November the 6th, 1934.

Street.

November the 6th, 1934 Street.

Now, this is somewhat complicated by the fact that all the street signs there now just say November 6th Street.

Apparently the city, to uncomplicate things, they published all these signs that say November 6th Street.

It's a smaller sign.

It's easier to read on maps.

But Jimmy insists it is still officially called November the 6th, 1934 Street.

And he showed me all these photos of him with the old signs, which used to say the whole day month year on it.

And if it is still November the 6th, 1934, street, then that would make it a very unique street name in America.

Wow, that is amazing.

I mean, I mean, this is back when the Tennessee Valley Authority was really rocking and great.

So, so this is a good moment to commemorate.

And of course, our show needs to continue our recent streak of TVA content, if you've been listening.

But Jimmy noted something that just totally hadn't occurred to me, and this might be the only street that is like this in America.

I cannot find anybody in 15 years to tell me different.

You might be the one.

This might be your golden moment here.

It is the only street in America named after a month, a day, and a year.

I'm going to look into this because I want to know as well.

Well, there is no July 4th, 1776 Street in Boston or Philadelphia.

There's no July 20th Street, 1969, when we landed on the moon.

When Memphis voted to join TVA power, and there's got to be some other dates in some other cities.

Now, I looked into this as well, and I couldn't find anything.

I called a bunch of people, no success.

So, 99 PI listeners, if you know a street close to you that is named after a day, a month, and a year, help us out.

It'd be valuable for me.

It'd be valuable for Jimmy Ogle as well.

He would love to know if Memphis has the only street of its kind in America.

We would love to know.

We have more Memphis history after this.

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So, okay, speaking of streets in Memphis, Roman, Jimmy and I were out, we were walking in Memphis, and we came to the most famous street in the city.

What is that for people who do not know the city of Memphis?

I'm going to say that's Beale Street.

That I would wager that is Beale Street.

Yes.

So, you know, very touristy stretch.

They have the equivalent of the Walk of Fame with the notes.

They have like music notes that commemorate people over there.

And part of why we stopped there is actually because Jimmy just wanted to make sure the local historical markers were in good shape.

So we were walking around and then he just started fixing them.

And we ran into the guy who currently runs Beale Street and he's like, oh, yeah, go ahead, just fix some stuff.

Oh, wait, do you actually ride a Allen key?

Hey, in the meantime, when you, after you tighten this up, what do you think after this, at some point, I go through and see a lot of them, they're just working theirselves loose.

So at some point, our trip just became free labor by Jimmy.

Anyway, Beale Street, one of the most famous streets in America, I would argue.

And did you know it was actually renamed in the 1960s?

I did not know that.

No.

What happened?

So it had been called Beale Street, but in the 50s, the city decided to change the naming conventions for all of the city streets.

So everything running east-west would become an avenue and everything running north-south would become a street.

So it became Beale Avenue because Beale was running east-west.

And it stayed that way for a while until a local celebrity got word about this.

So a famous radio star named Danny Thomas, he was very famous at the time from Memphis.

And Roman, can you imagine how Danny Thomas, this longtime Memphian, might have felt about this change?

I can imagine somebody just taking great umbrage to changing the name of Beale Street.

Oh, yeah, he was absolutely furious about this.

So he actually wrote a song called Bring Back My Beale Street.

And he made 2,000 copies and he sent it to members of the city council.

So I'm going to play a bit of the song.

The song is very spiteful.

It's like, My Beale Street, what have you done?

done?

Sweet Beale Street.

What have they done to you?

I fell asleep.

So the song comes out, and you can just imagine all the pressure this is putting on local politicians.

So eventually they cave in and they agree to rename it Beale Street.

Well, there you go.

Political action works.

So, Roman, after our trip to Beale Street, we went over to the University of Memphis, which you may remember has the basketball team, the famous,

I guess.

They were fighting pretty hard in the 90s with Penny Hardaway.

So, there's another very distinct feature of the university that Jimmy wanted to show me.

They actually have one of the few university programs in America that studies Egyptology.

Yeah, well, that makes sense because this is the city that's named for the capital of ancient Egypt.

That's right.

And outside the department there, there is a 25-foot statue of the Pharaoh Ramesses II.

And actually, it's a perfect replica of a statue that existed in Egypt.

Now, Roman, if you're going to build a replica statue of this, like what material would you use to make something this big and imposing?

I would imagine it's a concrete statue, a reinforced concrete statue.

Yeah, that's what I thought, too.

It's a great guess, and from a distance, that's really what it looks like.

But Jimmy took me up real close.

It looks like the real deal.

I mean, that's Ramsey standing there in a majestic mood.

He wasn't attacking anybody.

He was just standing on guard over Egypt.

You know, look at the hands and look at that face.

He's just gladly standing there.

This, you know, this,

hear that?

That's hollow.

So, Roman, it's a very convincing dupe, but the statue is actually fiberglass.

Did you not know it until you knocked on it?

No, I thought it might be concrete or stone or something.

It was very convincing.

And it's funny because the statue actually wasn't constructed for the university.

That's not where it lived for the longest time.

It was actually in front of the Memphis pyramid originally.

And it was displayed in front of there when it was a basketball arena.

And it stood there until 2012.

And after that, you know, Bass Pro moved in and they decided, okay, we're going to move the statue.

City council had a vote and they decided to send the statue to the university.

So now the University of Memphis rents the statue.

They have this 99-year lease with the city where they pay $1 a year to rent the Ramesses statue, and they keep it in front of their department.

That's a pretty good deal.

I would pay for that.

But just another pyramid connection with the rest of the city.

I know.

It's just everywhere you go in this town.

They have Egyptomania still.

Love it.

So, Roman, our biggest visit of the day, this was to a part of town called Mud Island.

Did you ever go to Mud Island?

I have gone to Mud Island.

I know exactly what that is, but it is hard to explain.

So, why don't you describe Mud Island?

And you took the tram over, I take it?

We've got to talk about the tram, actually.

So, here's the thing with Mud Island.

You know, Mud Island, it's actually a misnomer.

It's actually a peninsula, technically, on the Mississippi River.

And for a long time, Jimmy was the manager at Mud Island.

So, he was in charge of all the attractions that were there.

It has this public park, right?

It has this amphitheater.

But Roman, unfortunately, a lot of the stuff there today is abandoned.

So 5,000 people would come out this walkway here.

Yeah.

Turnstiles.

The permanent ceiling was 4,400.

There were bleachers on this top level.

I had the concession stands built outside the walls.

So they have this amphitheater.

It hasn't been used for concerts in a couple years now.

And the island has this scale model of the Mississippi River.

And Roman, do you remember this?

You could sort of walk along it and follow the path of the Mississippi.

It's totally worth checking out.

I saw it.

It's still there.

And of course, Mudd Island has the River Museum, which was this museum dedicated to the city of Memphis.

And Roman, I knew about this before I came to Memphis.

I think you can guess why, because it's from a movie that you have probably seen as someone who is from Memphis.

Oh, you mean the firm?

Yes, it's the firm.

Yeah, yeah.

I know he's chased around downtown Memphis.

So does it pass by here?

They do.

So basically, there's this scene in the firm where Tom Cruise, you know, is this big shot Memphis lawyer.

He's being chased around by goons and they chase him to Mud Island on this monorail that's running over to the island.

Right, right.

So he's being chased around this famous museum, the Memphis River Museum.

But unfortunately, the Memphis River Museum actually closed because of low attendance in 2018.

And they also stopped running the monorail.

So now the monorail is just sitting there.

It's next to this unused building that has more than 30,000 square feet of space.

But do they have any plans to do anything with it?

Well, it's funny because remember, we talked about the pyramid as this case of adaptive reuse, right?

Like it was an arena and then it became a Bass Pro, right?

And throughout Memphis, there are a lot of cool projects like this, I'm noticing, a lot of good adaptive reuse that's been happening.

So there's this old Sears warehouse, which has become this massive community center.

There's lots of old office buildings downtown that have been converted into housing.

And with the River Museum, there are people recently who've moved in and are starting to clean it up.

Drywall's been replaced, the walls have been painted, but there's still a lot of junk.

So that's Marvin Stockwell.

He's leading the redevelopment project of the old River Museum.

We've been given access to an immersive by design

museum space that snakes back in on itself.

It's 33,000 square feet.

And there are two full-size boats in there.

So we were given a space that like, if you're a commercial developer, you're like, the hell are we going to do with this space?

But you turn it over to artists, and they're like, I'll tell you what we're going to do with it, right?

So, today, Marvin's working with artists and designers and video game developers, and they're turning it into this immersive experience.

Like, there's going to be big video screens and like a sci-fi plot and kind of this DD-like game you can play.

So, Catherine Hicks, she's one of the developers on the project, and here's how she described it to me.

Think of the Millennium Falcon ride and Star Wars, but more observation deck style.

So the look and feel will kind of be like this: very steampunky, very like 20,000 leagues under the sea.

I mean, that's amazing.

It sounds incredibly ambitious.

It is.

And I mean, there's a huge renovation happening in the space right now.

And for this project to keep the costs affordable, they are reusing a lot of the features in the space, which, of course, includes these two full-size boats from when it was the River Museum.

Okay, here we go.

Here we go.

I know I'm a serious reporter, Roman, but I was not above ringing the bell and feeling delight at ringing the bell.

But it's really interesting.

It's another reminder that I saw all over Memphis and that I really felt in the pyramid that the life of buildings is long, right?

And we never know what's going to end up in a particular space.

I find it delightful in terms of adaptive reuse.

It seems like an incredibly big change.

Did Jimmy, our historian, you know, feel like the loss of something or just kind of excitement about what was happening?

He's actually the one who brought me here.

So he was enthusiastic that something was moving in, right?

And I feel like he had this really good attitude about how spaces change and how cities change.

I mean, how do you feel seeing like knowing what it was and seeing what it's become like?

I mean, you know, like when you have an old friend who passes away, you're sad for the passing, but it's a good, long life.

And after you get over the tears, you start telling stories about each other and it turns into a giggle fest at a funeral.

You know, it's a celebration.

So, you know, to celebrate the 40 years that it was there, I feel like this is an attitude that sometimes I can lose sight of when talking about buildings and change in cities.

And I just think this is a really healthy attitude to have.

I think it's a great reminder for all of us about all kinds of things.

So this is really fantastic, Chris.

Thank you so much for bringing me back to Memphis.

I really appreciate it.

More than you know.

Roman, it was a real pleasure, and I hope one day they get the monorail running again.

I'd like to nominate us to be the first to take a ride on it because I really want to see the monorail in action.

I will meet you there in a heartbeat.

Thank you.

Thanks, Roman.

This bonus episode was produced by Chris Barubé and Isabel Angel.

Mix by Martine Gonzalez.

Music by Swan Real and Mia Byrne.

Fact-checking by Laura Bullins.

You can find a list of Jimmy Ogle's tours and special events on his website, jimmyogle.com.

That's jimmyogle.com.

Special thanks to Lewis Graham and the team at Baron von Operbeen and the River of Time.

They're the ones building an immersive experience at Mudd Island.

We'll have a link to their project on our website.

Kathy Tu is our executive producer.

Kurt Colstead is the digital director.

Delaney Hall is our senior editor.

The rest of the team includes Jason DeLeon, Emmett Fitzgerald, Christopher Johnson, Vivian Lay, Lashmadon, Jacob Medina Gleason, Kelly Prime, Joe Rosenberg, and me, Roman Mars.

The 99% of Visible logo was created by Stefan Lawrence.

We are part of the SiriusXM podcast family, now headquartered six blocks north in the Pandora building in beautiful, uptown, Oakland, California.

You can find us on Blue Sky as well as our own Discord server.

There's a link to that, as well as every past episode of 99pi at 99pi.org.