108 = Proofed Mates and Proved Dates

Hello, and welcome to A Problem Squared.

This is a podcast where we solve problems sent in by listeners, and some would say it's a lot like a tram.

Oh, in that it solves some of the problems of modern living,

runs roughly the schedule,

and if it when it goes off the tracks that's when it gets really interesting i'm joined by a writer comedian bunch of other stuff feck hill who is a bit like a tram in that

in adelaide there is only one beck hill that's not true actually no the concept the concept

and i am matt parker uh much like trams

I used to be in Perth, and now most people have forgotten that was ever the case.

On On this episode, how to tell when someone's had too much.

I've worked out how to tell when something wasn't too recent, and some people have told me how I am wrong in any other business.

And it wasn't me, it was someone else, a lot of other people.

So, Beck, how are you doing?

I'm

good.

Good, good, good, good, good.

I am good.

I

I went and saw Beck the singer, not myself.

Oh, wow, at the Royal Abbott Hall last night with a symphony orchestra.

Amazing.

That must have been pretty special.

It was special.

And Matt, as someone

who I discovered I do actually share a lot of musical tastes with, I bought two tickets instantly when I saw it.

I got two of the standing ones in the gallery.

The cheapest options are like 35 quid each.

And I was like, 35 quid to watch Beck for the Symphony Orchestra at Royal Abbott Hall.

Yes, please.

Yes, please.

I'll take two.

I've stood up there before.

I know it's far away, but you can have a dance.

I was like, this will be great.

You would normally be my plus one.

Correct.

But you were in Australia.

Correct.

And still are.

We swap places.

We swap places.

So I took my friend, fellow comedian, John Link Roberts.

Now, I'm not one for showing up early, as you're aware.

No.

The doors opened at 6.45.

And so I said, doors open at 6.45, show starts at 7.30.

And so John Lee Roberts said, okay, well, we'll get there just after 7.

I was like, great.

Perfect.

So when we got there, there wasn't a huge amount of people yet because I guess a lot of people were like, oh, we'll skip the Support Act, which I'd forgotten was a thing.

But it meant that when we rocked up, as soon as we arrived to have our tickets scanned, a lady said,

Would you like a free seat upgrade?

Oh.

And we said, oh, yes, that would be great.

She said, great.

Just scan your tickets here.

Take some

change tickets from these people.

And we were put in a box.

What?

So we got to watch Beck with a Symphony Orchestra from a box in the grand tier.

And it was bloody wonderful.

It was so good.

That's amazing.

It was so good.

And now I'm convinced that anytime I see a show like that, I should show up early.

Early.

In case.

And the thing is, I saw it at first because there weren't as many people for the like i would say it was about two-thirds full for the support act

and okay the support act by the way an australian i had to google it because she had a very interesting accent but turns out it's an australian that has lived in la for a long time

uh

a professional whistler oh she's very enjoying the whistle circuit wow she's whistled on a lot of top tracks Because I think everyone at first was like, is this seriously it?

And it was.

And you know what?

Very enjoyable.

Really, really liked it.

It felt very David Lynch

to just have a woman come out and start whistling.

She was very good.

Brilliant.

And she was aware that everyone was confused.

She was like,

oh, this next one's from my album, which obviously you all have at home.

She's like, this is the big hit.

And she's like, whistle along if you know it.

Actually, don't.

Please don't.

That's my thing.

Don't.

I was like, yeah, fair fight.

She said something like, I'm used to playing much larger, more historical buildings, but this will do.

And I was like, okay.

Okay.

All right.

You got it.

I'm on board.

You want me over?

So it pays to be early.

This now, if someone told me that, as an ADHD person,

I feel like they've been leading with the wrong things.

But if you said, if you show up early, you might get upgraded to things.

Well, now I've got a reason.

Beck, you and I have performed at the Royal Albert Hall.

Yes.

I don't recall you getting there early for that.

No.

Well, where were they going to upgrade me?

From

even better on the stage.

I was at the top.

Yeah, exactly.

They're like, oh, actually,

yeah, the darkness,

you can take their spot.

The box I was in was better than the box that I stood in to watch that show that I was on as an artist.

So I had a lovely time.

It was great.

How about you?

Have you been?

Oh,

as we established, we've exchanged places.

So you flew back to the UK and landed, and within 48 hours, I left.

Unrelated.

I like how you pointed that out just in case.

Just in case.

I wasn't worried about it, but now I am.

No, it's been a while since we've recorded in the same room together.

It's like saying to someone, no, no, that jumper looks, I don't think it looks bad on you at all.

So,

I did the thing where, I mean, it's a long way to Australia at the best of times,

but I flew out to Perth where my family are.

Did you do the direct flight?

I did the direct flight, direct flight out.

It's like 17 hours.

We took off an hour late.

And the pilot came on and was like, look, we're an hour late because we missed our slot at Heathrow for boring admin reasons.

And then we had to wait ages to get another slot.

And they're like, we're about an hour behind schedule, but we're pretty sure we can make that up.

I'll check back in with you all in about 14 hours and 14 hours later they come and they're like yeah we made it up so you just went a little faster for 14 hours it doesn't take much sometimes you're just like why don't you just go at that pace all the time my theory is it just costs more in fuel and so they're flying at the cheaper speed which is also the best for carbon emissions and but it gives them the freedom to dial it up dial it down as required so they just dialed it up slightly and we landed on time.

My parents picked me up, took me back to their place, had one night there, and then they drove me back to the airport the next day to get my onward flight to Sydney.

And so by the time I landed in Sydney, my body clock had no idea what was going on.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I got into the hotel at like 9 p.m., 9-something p.m.

I was like, oh, I just, I don't know what meal I'm up to,

but I would love to just get a drink and some food.

And it's the opposite of when you're trying to get over jet lag and you deliberately go and do things outside in the sunlight to try and convince your brain.

Photons are meant to be awake.

I was like, I want to go outside where it's dark and try and convince my brain I should go to sleep soon.

Right.

So I looked up like a nearby bar where I could go and get a decent beer.

You know, a bit of me was like, you could go walk a bit further and find an obscure brewery.

I'm like, no, no, no, it's late at night.

They're all going to be closing nearby.

I forgot.

I left, I was just near Darling Harbor for people who want to play along.

If you know Sydney, it's quite a touristy area.

Very touristy area.

I left the hotel and I was like,

it's busy.

Why are there so many?

And then it dawned on me it was Friday night.

I had totally forgotten.

It was Friday night, and I've just strayed out into like one of the busiest kind of nightclubby areas in Sydney for my quiet beverage.

I think I sent you a video, didn't I?

Of me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Once I found,

I found the least nightclubby

bar kind of pub.

I imagine on a sunny afternoon, it would be a wonderful, quiet, relaxing beer by the bay.

Looking out over the water, enjoying the serenity.

However,

I think just to keep their license, they have to turn into a club because they had like a token DJ doing the absolute minimum in the corner.

Yep.

I think just to justify still being open.

So much so that next door was a much louder club that spills out outside.

And the DJ in the bar I was in made no effort to match the tempo or whatever they were playing to what was happening next door.

So I just had these two

not consistently out-of-phase beats, just all over the place noise.

And I had my, I was that weird guy in the corner having a quiet beer that is you are the weird guy you're right i am the weird guy

and i'm like who are you yeah who are you who what's your story there you are it's someone who forgot what night it was and doesn't know what

what hour it is any fans of matt parker listening if you ever want to find him work out where he's gigging if he's jet lagged find the nearest if he's not jet lagged find the nearest craft brewery and look for the lonely guy in the corner Yep.

Oh, I fixed it quick smart.

Like the rest of the trip was the sort of breweries where you have to walk through an industrial estate to get to them.

I was back on form very quickly.

So that was it.

But now I then bounced by the Melbourne Comedy Festival

back in Perth.

Things are, I think my jet lag is starting to get to grips with what's going on.

Yeah.

I did the thing where when I got back, because I'd been away for three months and then a week in Hong Kong and then got here.

And the sunshine here really helped.

I managed to get back in one of those rare periods where Britain has some sunshine

and then went essentially straight to Birmingham to do some gigs and then

back to London and then Brighton for a kids gig and an evening gig.

Then I had a kids gig on Saturday.

And I think only now is my body like, I'm a bit jet lagged.

And I'm like, oh, bum.

I thought I'd

managed to to trick it to confuse it like yeah it's like an etcher sketch if you shake it enough it'll forget yeah yeah yeah my problem is because I had to do a talk on

one night and then a couple in Sydney and a couple nights later a show in Melbourne for the comedy festival I wasn't doing my normal optimizing my timings for getting over jet lag I was optimizing being the correct amount of alert at the right points in time to be a professional and do those two shows well.

Yeah.

And that's not good for jet lag, but it is good for being alert on stage.

So I've been, I think, deliberately counterproductive, but as a professional.

Speaking of being a professional,

let's do a podcast.

Right, let's do it.

Our first problem was sent in by someone who wishes to go by the name Kevin.

Kevin popped over to the problem posing page at problemsquared.com and typed in their problem, which is a single sentence.

They want to know what is the most polite slash non-confrontational way to tell a friend they've had too much to drink.

Beck, you've taken on Kev's problem and you've got a solution to too much solutions.

Nice.

Thank you.

I'm also aware that this, especially after talking about your drinking to get back on track,

It does sound like I sent this in under a pseudonym.

So I can have a rope with my co-host.

Yeah.

Yeah, well, Kev.

So I think we've all been in positions where we're like, oh,

this person, you know, now I'm taking it when they say they've had too much to drink, that this is in the moment.

And the way that Kevin has phrased this, and I don't know which way you're going to go about your solution, but it's not phrased as in your friend is habitually drinking too much.

It's more in the moment

your friend has just had too much to drink upon an evening.

Yes.

And you want to bring it up in a non-non-confronting manner.

Which is a good way to go.

So

slapping the drink out of their hands is probably too confrontational.

Yeah.

Would be funny, though, but yes.

No, slam now.

Yeah, exactly

so i'm gonna try and answer this as seriously as possible because gotcha i mean we are a problem-solving podcast after all you wouldn't believe it would you but then i am gonna leave it open to some sillier suggestions that i probably wouldn't condone but will be fun to talk about yeah like for instance if you slapped the drink out of their hand but replaced it with an ice cream

move like some kind of close-up magician exactly Exactly.

Like, that might be a good non-confrontation.

Like, they would just be so amazed that they might.

They'd be like, oh, my goodness.

Yeah.

And who's not happy with an ice cream?

There you go.

Someone who was recently holding a beer, probably.

And so rarely do you have to tell someone they've had too much ice cream unless they're like under 12.

So, firstly, I do want to say you need context for this, right?

Like, what happens when they've had too much?

What constitutes as too much?

And I think it's really important not even to think in terms of numbers or units, even though that is, you know, that is important.

But when you're dealing with people, rather than saying, like, you've had six pints, that's now you've hit your limit.

Because people don't drink generally based on units, even though that's how they're measured by the health services.

People drink based on what how it makes them feel and what feels right in the moment and what they feel that they need.

I would say that drinking according to units works if it's you internally and you're already motivated to monitor your drinking.

Yes.

Because I find it very useful.

I mean, I like numbers, so I like paying attention to the percentage of alcohol and the volumes.

Because in my mind, I like to keep track of effective, like equivalent pints.

Because,

you know,

the difference between like a 3.5% beer and a 7.5% beer is pretty dramatic.

Yeah.

And so I like to track effective pints I've had.

And that winds me up.

Places like America where they don't give you the percentage alcohol.

Like in the UK, it's everywhere.

You can't avoid it.

Yeah.

But in the States, I find it a lot harder to get the percentage out of them.

Oh, I didn't realize.

Yeah, well, often, because in the UK, all the beers will have it on the badge right on the pump.

Yeah.

Be it hand pump or carbonated.

Whereas in the States, there'll be a a whole bunch of them racked up at the back of the bar and they won't have the percentages on them.

So you've got to either find like a printed menu or something to work out what the percentages are.

Huh.

Well, there you go.

But that's a long way to say: if I'm, you know, if you're already motivated to not have too much,

then I think units can be useful, but you're absolutely right.

Yeah.

It also depends on what you mean by too much, because now, is it that they're problematic in the moment?

Like, are they a danger to themselves or others?

Are they violent?

Are they getting violently ill?

Are they vomiting?

Are they trying to drive?

Like, these are immediate, oh, like, we have to deal with this right now.

Or is it just that you're a bit worried about their ongoing health and well-being?

Obviously, if we're talking about broaching the subject with someone where it's a more serious problem, it's worth remembering that people have to want their behavior to change in order to change it.

And that's why being non-confrontational is very important, regardless of the situation, because you can't make someone do something.

I know from experience of dealing with a lot of people who have had problems.

You can't make them.

The only way they'll do it is coming to the conclusion themselves.

And sometimes pushing people too hard can just push them away.

So I would recommend if anyone is after advice advice for more serious issues, there are many services out there that will help you and advise.

So yeah, please do look them up.

There are many support groups.

I just want to say that all of this advice is to be taken with a pinch of salt because it will very much depend on the context of

why you want to say this to them in the first place.

I've always

viewed hangovers or drinking in general as borrowing happiness from tomorrow.

Yes.

Which is not a unique thing to me.

This is a common way of looking at it.

Where you can have extra fun today,

but you're going to be running a fun deficit tomorrow.

And that's, you know, there's no moral judgment.

And, you know, in life, you can decide to do that, but you don't want, it doesn't be haphazard and you're going to be responsible for all the consequences.

Yeah.

Exactly.

You mentioned before about when you're aware of your units and everything.

And I think that's a nice sort of segue into,

firstly, is it possible to broach this subject?

Like, let's say that maybe

more than once

your friend has had too much to drink.

And you're like, in the moment, trying to work out, it's not that you think they've got a massive problem,

but the fact that you're asking means that potentially you think this friend might need a polite reminder in the future.

It's not, you know, intervention level, but it might be worth trying to broach the subject when they're sober, or at least using if they, if your friend brings up any type of,

oh, I need to cut down on my drinking, or

anything like that, or oh, yeah, I couldn't remember the other night, or that was really embarrassing, that thing I did, or I had a really horrible hangover.

That's a really nice way to just be like, oh,

do you want

to signal

if you probably should stop or slow down?

Because I think I can tell the moment that you start to go in.

Because there's always a moment where we hit where then it's hard to know to stop.

Yeah.

And once you're past that point, then it's sort of like that's when you're in, like, oh, okay, I'm going to have regrets.

So

it might be worth, in a polite, non-confrontational way,

of just asking your friend, how would you like to know?

How would you like to be alerted?

Look, it might not work.

And if they say,

by slapping the beer out of my hand and replacing it with an ice cream,

replacing it with an ice cream.

Yeah.

Then you have full permission to do that.

Exactly.

It could be more subtle.

That would make a lot of mess.

Maybe they could say, Could you just come by and just occasionally sneeze right into my drink?

Yeah.

And then

I don't want this anymore.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

A real comedy blah, blah, blah, right in the boom.

Well, also, chances are, if someone has already expressed that

they would like some help recognizing when they've hit their limit, they're probably going to be more aware of it from then on anyway.

And you might not even need to have that conversation with them.

But I've definitely had periods with friends.

Well, first of all, I stopped drinking in solidarity with a friend who was struggling with alcohol for much more serious reasons and

then realized all the benefits of not drinking, so I've kept it up.

It does mean that you are more aware of when other people have passed that limit.

I don't mind going out with friends who are drinking.

I will say that when I was drinking, it is harder to be aware of when other people have hit their limit.

And it was also harder

to

suggest to someone that maybe they want to slow down or have a pint of water first before their next drink when you are also drinking.

It can sometimes seem a little bit hypocritical.

I think you've hit one of the nails on the head in so much as often the best approach is just you do the thing

and incorporate them into it.

Yeah, that's exactly, I mean, you've worded it far better than I think

I have, but exactly that.

It's lead by example.

Can I tell a semi-related story?

Of course, please.

I was out on a stag do, so classic big drinking night out of the stag do.

But we had a bunch of fun stuff planned the next day, and I was like,

I hate it when you ruin like a stag do or a weekend or whatever by just getting drinking too much the first night and then your phone is rolled the rest of the time.

And so I was like, huh, how can we reduce our alcohol consumption without reducing our fun?

And, you know, often, this is in England, buying rounds is a whole thing.

And kind of every time someone goes back near the bar, you'd come back with a round.

And I was like, you know what I'm going to do?

I love a system.

I love a repeating joke.

And so I'm very early on went off to go to the Lou or something.

And then on the way back, I bought a round of the smallest glass-sized beer that the pub would serve.

Little half pints.

And I came back with a big chorus of, hey, everyone, tiny beers.

And I'm handing out tiny beers.

And then that just became a thing.

For the rest of the night, whenever someone bought a round, they'd come back to a chorus of tiny beers.

And we all had little mini beers each time.

That's very funny.

So we had tiny.

And it was a lot of fun.

And everyone still got to partake in buying a round all the time and surprise, you know, come back with another round of tiny beers.

But it meant we had halved.

Yeah.

I mean, maybe we probably had more rounds.

It wasn't probably exactly half.

But I was like, it'd be a funny system, and it means we will drink less with no less fun.

Tiny beers is potentially my favorite answer to this question.

I can highly recommend tiny beers.

Because the marginal, you know, you get more than half the fun of a pint of beer from the first half.

So in terms of efficiency, you're halving your volume, but not halving your fun.

Yeah, exactly.

And there's also a pressure.

Like, it's weird because, yeah, in Britain, they're all done by pints.

If you're out with, like, six friends, that's seven pints if everyone's getting around in.

If that's, like, just at one place before you move on to the next one.

That's a, that's a strong beginning.

Yeah, that's.

Everyone's going to die.

But yeah, I think the easiest way is to broach it before it's an issue.

Because talking to a sober person.

about drinking is much easier than talking to a drunk person about drinking.

Now, let's say you don't have that.

Let's say you just happen to be out with someone.

it's a one-off, and

they are

just getting to that.

I know, I recognize it in people when their focus starts, it looks like they're trying to look at a magic eye picture.

It's when they're looking at you, but somehow looking on the other side of you.

Like they look through you rather than

they're just not there.

They're not fully there.

First of all, make sure they're not just super jet lagged.

Factor there.

Yeah.

Are they on their own in a way?

In a couple of case.

Yeah.

there is a point where you tend to notice that someone has had too much it's the sweating it's that when they start talking into your mouth

you have very different friends to me back you know like it's like you're ordering a driver through

you shouldn't be able to taste someone's breath is what i'm saying

so

I do know, I think I know the moments that you're probably referring to rather than someone who's just started yelling or being, you know, those people, I think it's too late.

You can't reason with them personally.

I mean, you could try.

You should try, actually.

I should say.

Don't confront them immediately.

But if they're vomiting, I don't, there's not all you need to do is get them into a cab, right?

Get them home.

If someone is in the mid-vomit, I don't think you need to say, um, do you, do you think maybe you've had too much like.

Yeah, exactly.

Like, I think their body is already telling them that they've had too much to drink.

So a lot of the advice from drink aware type sites do focus on making giving them choices and not commands, which plays into the polite non-confrontational thing.

Good advice in lots of situations.

Also, you can point out some of the things like, oh, you seem a bit unwell.

Are you okay?

Do you want some water?

You seem a bit flush.

Do you want some water?

Because it's not...

Those elements of being drunk aren't nice and we tend to ignore them for the happy parts of being drunk.

But there are, you know, know, the less happy parts are maybe feeling a little bit dizzy, getting a little bit flushed, that kind of thing.

So if you're sort of focusing on the effects rather the amounts, the amount that they've drunk, then you can sort of go hone in on the stuff that's a bit uncomfortable about it.

Oh, are you a bit dizzy?

You seem a bit off kilter.

Should we sit down for a moment?

Should we take a break?

Did you want to stay out or, you know, is it time for bed?

Just sort of putting it out there that maybe the fun isn't as fun now.

So those are probably

the easiest ways ways to kind of broach it in the middle of a situation.

I actually saw a thread of advice from bartenders who are asked

what to do

if they are being asked to serve someone who has clearly had too much.

And a lot of them say they just automatically give them a water before they take an order.

Oh, just here's your water.

Yeah, and also when you've had that much to drink.

So if you've noticed that a friend seems to have had a lot to drink, just put a pint of water in their hands.

No ice, just give them a pint of water in their hand.

Most people will just take a pint if you hand it to them.

So true.

I would say that's non-confrontational.

And you could go, you just looked a bit thirsty.

Get yourself a pint of water and say, oh, I got you one too.

There you go.

Yeah, absolutely.

Round of waters.

Yeah.

I mean, one of my techniques before I stopped drinking all together was to always have a pint of water between each pint of beer or glass of wine.

Good system.

Because also then

you're taking up additional time peeing,

which is time you're not drinking.

It's a winner on both ends.

Yeah.

I would always order a pint of water, drink it while I'm ordering and getting the rest of the drinks and whatever I'm doing,

and aim to finish the pint of water before the round is ready for me to then walk away with.

Nice.

And it does help.

Like it does help to have that.

It does.

It mitigates.

It's not the solution to all the problems.

But it will help slow down things.

There's a bartender that said they had a game of operation that they would just bring out when people got to that point of drunk and start playing.

And then the people would start playing it because,

A, who doesn't want to play a board game of operation?

Correct.

That's just there.

And B,

they would be distracted by that and not ordering drinks.

And C, they would realize

while they were playing, like, oh, I'm very drunk.

Exactly.

So, you know, maybe some parlor games.

Maybe some Jenga.

Yeah.

Jenga.

That's great.

Don't bring out games that you get better at when you're drunk.

Because if you bring out Hungry, Hungry Hippos or something, they'll just be like, oh, I've never been this good.

You reckon you're better at Hungry Hippos if you've been drinking?

Oh, definitely.

Hmm.

Yeah.

hand-eye quarter.

Get one of those ones where you have to put the loop over the wire and it buzzes.

Now you're talking and then you get zapped.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They should be compulsory in every bar.

They should, actually.

It should be that you can't order a drink until you complete it.

Unless you make your way to the end without being electrocuted.

Yeah.

Or electrified patents.

I mean, the one I know just makes a buzzer, but sure, I like the electrocution element as well.

I don't know.

You're like, can I order some drinks?

And the bar staff are like, let me just clip this on your finger first.

Here you go.

Now.

Yeah.

To move the wand.

Are you standing on the earthing mat?

Okay, good.

I mean, depending on how drunk they are, you might also be able to use the same trick that some bartenders use, which was just to say, oh, it's last drinks.

They're not serving anymore.

Oh, they just stopped serving.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Obviously, all of these depend on the scenario.

But they are options.

I do think the suggestion of, should we go get some food is always useful because if you've had had that much to drink, more often than not, someone does want something to eat.

So it can just remove them from the situation.

Easy sell.

Yeah.

If you are worried about someone else's drinking and you want them to stop, don't get yourself a drink.

I know that sounds like punishing yourself, but it's really hard to expect someone to not drink if you are continuing because then it is suggesting that you are fine and they are not.

So I do think that it is important to lead by example in these situations, even if it means you're going to to miss out a little bit.

Really, you're not.

Like, I've never regretted, I mean, one thing I, you know, I've said this to many friends because I hadn't, I hadn't planned on not like just stopping drinking altogether when my friend in the States.

I was just going to not do it while I was there.

But then I came back and it didn't seem pertinent to start drinking when I got back.

And that's when I realized there have been several times where I've woken up and regretted how much I drank.

I didn't embarrass myself.

I didn't get defiance, nothing like that, but I've just felt off.

I felt rough.

I've had a rough day.

My head, I've had the brain fog, all of that.

And I thought, oh, I probably shouldn't have had as much to drink.

On the contrary, I haven't woken up at all since I stopped drinking and thought, wow, I really wish I'd had something to drink last night.

Like, at no point have I regretted not drinking the night before.

Yeah.

Drinking is not for tomorrow you.

No.

It's for tonight.

And I stuff up tomorrow me.

Tomorrow you is very biased in this.

Tomorrow me gets pretty rough.

Like, tomorrow me has to do all the work.

Tomorrow me has to clean.

Tomorrow me has to do tax.

Give her a break.

I'm going to give her a break.

That escalated.

So

I think leading by example is the best one.

Now,

other options

which may not be serious.

Oh.

I say, replace their drink, see if they notice.

And

see how far away from the original drink you can get.

Now, obviously, you swap it out.

Let's say they're on beer.

Swap it out for a non-alcoholic beer.

See if they notice.

And then you can just keep them on the

non-alcoholic beers if you like subtly swap them out.

If that works, try switching the drink altogether.

Swap it for a coffee.

for a milkshake.

At what point are you going to get them?

Will they not realize?

Probably a milkshake.

I've had some beers, some real hipster beers that are not that far away from being a milkshake already.

So that is plausible.

I mean, I went, mmm, but I'm like, I would just have a milkshake.

Who would turn down a milkshake other than, you know, lactose-intolerant vegan people?

Other options?

If you want to be polite or non-confrontational, write it in a scroll.

Oh.

Put some wax seal on it.

Yep.

Now, do you need to hire a town crier to come in and read it out or do you just slide it over to them?

I would say town crier falls into the confrontational.

Oh,

sorry.

Oh.

You and I know some very different town criers.

I think the key is in crier, isn't it?

In the word crier.

Yeah, yeah.

Like, I think if you've got a poet laureate to do it,

that could be quite nice.

Exactly.

That would be

great.

But

you could do a cross stitch, present it to them as an embroidered.

I think you've had enough, hanky.

Yep, yep, yep.

Take some advanced planning.

I mean, a lot of these are advanced planning, I'll be honest.

Yeah.

Hire a skywriting airplane.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, that would be awesome.

If you're like, well, actually, before I get you the next round, look up.

Have you had too much?

A cheerleading squad?

Yep, good.

Spelling out sober, I don't know.

Just distraction techniques, I think, are good in general.

When they ask for a drink, come back with a helium balloon and just be like, I'm so sorry, I totally misheard you.

Okay, yeah, what was it again?

Oh, a pint of Guinness.

And then each time you come back with weirder and weirder items.

I got that trombone you wanted.

Yeah.

What?

Oh.

What if you put them in a room, remove all their clothes and items,

just have them on a chair.

Wait a minute.

That's your solution to everything.

Oh, totally unrelated, but please keep this in because I've just remembered.

I took a photo because I was going for a hike through a little foresty bit in Hong Kong.

And there were loads of areas that people sort of use for like, they just use that as a nice little area.

They'll sit and play board games or do stretches or whatever.

And to sort of mark their areas, people would have their stools or whatever tied to a tree.

But there was one place where they had like some chairs hooked up to the tree.

And I was like, oh, this is a version of

Matt's space-saving

idea.

Great.

See?

It's a good system.

Yeah.

Indoors and outdoors.

Producer Laura will put some photos on socials.

Yeah.

A flight of chairs.

A flight of chairs.

Yeah, bring back a flight of chairs instead of a flight of beers.

I think we've solved it.

I think we've solved it.

Beck.

A lot of great suggestions.

Some practical, some not.

I don't know if we go back to Kevin for a ding on this.

I don't know if Kevin has to immediately use this with a friend.

But

I'm going to give you a ding just for being comprehensive.

I think that was great.

I think we can all use some of those methods.

And worst case scenario, don't forget, just sneeze right in their pint.

Sneeze in their pint.

Yeah.

Problem solved.

Just do a big old Lugie in it.

Big old spit.

Yeah, exactly.

If they cotton onto you, just be like, I'm sorry, I'm allergic to you drinking too much.

Easy concert.

I'm allergic to drunk assholes.

Slams.

Oh, an ice cream.

I would also like to hear from anyone if...

If anyone is going on a hand stag do or any party type thing and they do the tiny beers technique

after hearing Matt talk about it, I'd really like to hear that.

Report back on tiny beers.

Let's make tony beers, I think.

Yeah, send a photo of you and your mates cheersing tiny beers.

Or with tony beers.

Yeah.

Hashtag tiny beers.

This next problem is from Daniel,

who says, holding up a copy of today's newspaper in an image can verify that a picture was taken in the last day as that newspaper didn't exist before then.

then.

Is there a reverse item?

One that if you hold it in a picture, then it necessarily had to be taken before a certain date.

Good problem.

All right, if I'm to understand this problem correctly,

if I were to hold up a newspaper that said

Katy Perry went to space.

Yep.

That could have been printed today because it's technically correct.

Yeah.

A newspaper gives you a date the photo must have been after because you could have kept a newspaper from the day Katy Perry went to space.

Because I think we can all agree that's where human history will be before and after.

So

you could keep a newspaper into the future and then take a photo later.

So

the photo with a newspaper routine just proves it was this date or later.

Yep.

So

the cliché is often like if you want to prove something is, you know, there's someone's still fine or alive or whatever, it's a photo with today's paper.

Yeah, it's always hostage situations.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And there are other non-hostage situations in which you might want to do this.

And I say that as if that's like a really common thing, but I only know it from films and TV.

So I don't know how often that is used in hostage situations, but it's a good point.

I don't know.

Has it actually ever been used?

I don't know.

If you've ever held someone hostage, let us know.

Problemsquared.com.

Yes.

Phone in now.

Please release them.

Please, yeah.

Exactly.

So,

this is a case where an object couldn't,

it provably didn't exist before a point in time.

So, any photographs with it must have been from that point or time.

And the newspaper's just good because it's like everyone knew that paper was published on that date.

It's a bonus that

it contains like news no one would have known.

But in reality anything would work like if a new book came out or a new Pokemon was released or the next fad toy comes out.

Like if you see a photo of someone holding a fidget spinner, you know, oh, that was

the summer of 2017 or whenever it was or later.

Yeah, the question now is, how do we do that in reverse?

I can think of one thing.

There's footage of the last known surviving Tasmanian tiger.

There's no way that video could have been shot.

I mean, look, if we're not allowing like the the idea of Photoshop and.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Let's just, we're having a truce on photo manipulation because all everything we're ever going to discuss comes apart if you can do a very convincing fake photo.

So ignore, we're going to take that for red.

But what if, Beck, you're playing the long con and you've got a secret population

of Tasmanian tigers?

Oh, I mean, I felt that that is also part of manipulation.

Yeah, sure.

That is, if you happen to own a bunch of Tasmanian tigers

that you are doing.

The original footage was for 1933.

It was black and white.

It has been colorized.

But the footage...

Now, obviously, that was 1933.

I think it was the last surviving one.

You're right.

Someone could have a backup of secret Tasmanian tigers or cloned one.

Correct.

Or they paint a dog.

Tape a bunch of cats together.

Yeah, you know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, it's a good point.

So famously, Tasmanian tigers are extinct.

We know pretty much exactly when it happened.

Any photograph with a Tasmanian tiger means it was a certain date or before.

I just realized I use Tasmanian tigers

as an option, but really you could just be like, oh, a photo with the queen.

Exactly.

Yeah, that would work.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Didn't think of that.

Just sort of extinct

animals.

Extinct animals.

No, so people is another one, but it gets a bit suspicious if you then need to know when they're going to die.

Extinct individuals.

In terms of practical reasons, like

the one that came to my mind straight away is if you discovered something in maths and you wanted to prove you had found it first, but you didn't want to announce it yet, you might want to take a photo of you.

with the maths and be able to prove it was a certain point or earlier so you could claim precedence down the street.

So if you could find a Tasmanian tiger or the queen.

You would need to find an animal which is about to go extinct and then go get a photo with it.

Yeah.

You could hang around old monarchs.

You could hang around old people who were hopefully famous ones.

Oh, yeah, I suppose just anyone.

They don't have to be monarchs.

Any old old person would do it.

You could find a public building which is due to be demolished

and go and get a picture of you in front of the building.

Yeah.

Or even have it collapsing in the background.

Then that's an exact moment in time.

Yeah.

And then I was like, well, hang on, well, these aren't super convenient.

And I was like, well, you could also do it at events, which are a very specific moment in time.

So if you took a photo of you holding something up, watching Beck perform at the Royal Albert Hall,

he will never do that again.

Well, if he doesn't do it again, like he could ruin your system.

But if Beck never performs at the Royal Albert Hall again, you've now proven it was then or an earlier gig he did.

Or you could like sign up for a fun run or some massive public event.

Yeah.

And then take a photo of you at that event.

And then you were at that event or earlier.

So yeah, you just need something that's a specific moment in time or ceases to exist.

Now, I know we've strayed off what Daniel said, these aren't objects, these are events.

The same idea would work.

Yeah.

There is another classic, like a cliche, an outdated cliché potentially, which is where if you wanted to prove like legally that you had something, as it like a document, you can post it to yourself.

Because then it comes back in a sealed envelope and it's got the post date stamped on it.

Assuming that someone doesn't have some glue or the ability to fake a stamp.

Yeah, you're right.

If someone could like open it and put something in and glue it back together.

So it's not foolproof, but that was a way, I believe, maybe this is just in films as well, where you'd post something to yourself and then keep it.

And then you've proven you had that at that point in time because it's postmarked.

And then I started thinking, well, hang on.

I've actually

had this problem before

where...

I did come across a piece of math that I came up with and I thought it would make a really good talk at that year's Mass Jam weekend, which is this big recreational maths thing that I

very, very tangentially help organize, but I'm there.

And people do very short talks.

And I was like, oh, a short talk where I announced this thing I found.

It was a magic square where not only did all the numbers in the rows and columns out to the same total, but if you wrote them out in English, every row and column and diagonal had the same letters across them.

And I thought that was very funny.

Yeah.

So the same number of letters.

So I thought that's great because it's like if you add the number of letters and you add what they represent, you get the same totals in every direction.

And I was like, oh, but wouldn't it be fun to show that I'd found it ages ago and I was saving it up?

And so I did a common thing in

computer science.

I worked out the hash of my magic square.

What does that mean?

Well, so

the hash is the answer to all these problems.

Daniel, it's hashes.

So I hashed it and then,

and I'm ignoring your very good question about what the hell a hash is.

I was then able to,

at the time, tweet, but times have changed, somehow publicly shared the hash.

So everyone's like, oh, Matt shared that on this date.

The hash I shared was just nonsense letters and characters.

It was absolutely meaningless gibberish.

But a hash is a very clever way to take any kind of digital file

and convert it into gibberish in a way that's impossible to reverse.

But

if you did it again later, you'd get the same gibberish every time.

I just saw your processing face come on, so I thought i'd give it a moment to to run through yep

so and i'm taking it that hash is this is a term that people are aware of okay a small number of people but yeah it's not it's i don't think it's in popular lexicon but if you're into programming you'd know it is it like encrypting something

But you don't un-encrypt it.

It's just if you were to encrypt it again later, it would be the same encryption.

Exactly.

You've spot on 100% full marks.

It's encrypting something, but you can't decrypt it.

Yep.

So, if my password manager comes up with a whole series of weird numbers and letters for a particular website,

that's the password.

If that represented something,

I can't then find out what that meant, but it will be the same password for that site forever.

Yes.

I know that's not quite what you meant, but

yeah, yeah, no.

But that's actually one of the uses for hashes is this is a bit simplified, but if you want to type your password in

to a website and it's got to send it to the server to get checked, they don't want to send your password.

You could calculate the hash of your password,

and then when it gets sent to the server, it's compared against

the hashed version of your password.

And if the hashes match, then the passwords must have matched.

And then if you get like data leaks or a bunch of passwords are leaked often what's leaked is the hashed versions of everyone's passwords

which is not useful because no one doesn't tell you what the password is but it can be used to verify that you did know what the password was so it's a very clever very clever bit of computing that solves a bunch of these sorts of problems and it's really good for verifying things would that not mean if you use the same password across multiple websites if it's comparing the hashes that doesn't necessarily mean that they can get into your other accounts

uh correct because they need to enter something that would generate the so the the malicious actor would have to enter something that would um that the other site produce the same hash yep yep but you can do what's called salting a hash which is where you take your password and add

exactly it is it's very tasty i haven't had breakfast yet you'd season season your password

by by adding a known extra bit of text.

Like a hash brown, exactly.

It's savory.

So when you enter your password, the website, let's say, would add a known bit of extra text that only it knows, which means the hash it produces for that website would be different for you using the same password on a different website because they'd use a different salt.

Yeah.

And so occasionally when you see like a report of some data breach or leak, they'll say, oh, they leaked salted or unsalted hashes of passwords.

So good security, you want to hash, you want to salt your hashes for security purposes.

It changes butter altogether.

Exactly.

But in our case, what you're going to do is the one of the thing about a hash is it can take any sized input, so any size file, and always produces a set-sized output.

And the output has to be big enough that you don't don't get what's called a hash collision, which is where multiple because, in theory, multiple inputs can get the same output because you can start with massive inputs and they're all producing smaller outputs.

So, hash collisions can be a problem.

You just need to make sure you've got a big enough hash that the collisions are vanishingly unlikely.

So, it's inconsequential.

So, you created a hash for your

magic square.

Yep.

I tweeted the hash.

So, then later you were able to be like,

hey, look,

if you put in my thing, you can find this hash from way back when.

Yep.

Six months or whatever it was later, I'm like, look, if you take this thing and you put it through the

SHA256 hash function, there's different functions.

That's one of my favorites.

It gives exactly the output that I tweeted six months ago.

And there's no way I could have tweeted that hash if I hadn't already found the magic square.

That's very cool.

So that's the technical solution.

That's the

hash is the object that can't have existed.

Did you use a better mathematical technique to hide the fact that you discovered a less impressive mathematical technique?

Incorrect.

Although

it did come to light after that Mass Jam weekend that someone else had previously found that magic square.

I was not the first person to have found it.

Just when I searched, it was a bit obscure.

I didn't do a video on it, and then someone pointed out, oh, actually, I think that was found by, and then some jerk from the past.

Before your hash.

Yeah, way before my hash.

They published it in a book.

Oh, that's maybe another thing you could do.

Yeah, exactly.

Write a book and incorporate the text in the book.

First edition.

Have a self-insert who discovers it and then write about it in the book.

Job done.

Yeah.

Well, I'm impressed.

I wasn't sure how you would answer that.

And it ended up being really fascinating and made a lot of sense.

I love hash functions.

Yeah.

It's not really an item.

No.

No.

It's just a way that you can publish it earlier without revealing it and then prove later

that you must have had it at the time.

So

I think the best thing is to befriend,

photograph yourself with a monarch and then have them bumped off later.

I think that's probably probably the easiest

way to go about it.

Agreed.

No further questions, Your Honor.

Sold.

Well, I mean, look, personally, I give it a ding.

But Daniel, how do you feel?

Let us know.

Instead of a ding, I would accept a 1F2B352BE3C0.

This is the hash of ding, all caps with an exclamation mark.

So this will be the hash forever.

Yeah.

As far as we can.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, I'll tell you what, I'll.

It's the SHA256 hash of all caps ding exclamation mark.

We'll put it in the show notes.

Love it.

And now it's time for any other bustness, which is a bit like a tram.

So we have all sorts of things sent in by listeners.

And,

you know, I wouldn't normally say there's a theme, but it was definitely the most common thing sent in recently, and that was after Beck talked about megabytes.

We got mega comments.

I don't know, Beck, do you want to talk us through the gist of what people were sending in?

A lot of people had a lot of things to say, but I feel like it was put best by

all very positive.

Dennis, Denise, Dennis,

it's a singular N.

I'm going to say Dennis, apologies

if I'm slightly mispronouncing it.

They said, all right, you have opened a Dennis in a box similar to Pandora.

I don't think it's Pandora in a box.

I think it's her box.

Does Dennis represent hope?

In your, I think it means that you don't know if Dennis is dead or not.

God, that makes sense.

Yeah.

In your episode 107, megabytes and stalactites, you wanted to know how many megabytes are in a gigabyte, and your answer was correct.

Yes.

In a gigabyte, there are a thousand megabytes.

Yes, I am missing a few key things, though,

and I want to clarify.

First, you often say that in a megabyte, there is a thousand bytes, which is not true.

And as soon as I read this, Dennis, I was like, Oh, only if you're literal.

I specifically remember you saying that in a megabyte, there are a thousand kilobytes, which in turn have a thousand bytes each.

Yes, yes, because mega is a million, so it's a thousand thousands.

Agreed.

I'm very sorry.

I took it up as a verbal typo.

I don't think that's a technical mistake, but it is worth clarifying.

Yes, it is.

Yeah.

I believe that most folks listening will have picked up on that and gone, clearly Beck means this.

These kinkases mean

kilo, blah, blah, blah.

However, anyone of my level of understanding of this may

hear that verbal typo, take it for literal, and then also be confused.

So thank you for clarifying.

Both mega sorry which is 1000 sorries it's actually a thousand kilo sorries oh no which is a thousand sorries

second from what you have said i would have understood that in a gibbibyte there are a thousand twenty four megabytes which is incorrect in a gibbibyte there are a thousand twenty four mebibytes

did we say megabyte

I think I did, yeah.

And then they pointed out which have a thousand twenty-four kibbibytes each kibbytes yeah yeah which have a thousand twenty four bytes each bytes thank you also kibbibytes mebbibyt correct lovely adorable love these words they sound very studio gibbly

which is uh like studio giggly but uh there's 24 more of them Third, Beck has asked if by getting a one terabyte drive or USB you are getting a terabyte or a tabby byte.

I can proudly answer you, neither.

But terabyte is more correct.

In my one terabyte drive, I have, oh gosh, okay, I'm just going to read out the digits.

1000202039296 bytes.

I'm pretty sure if you ring that, you get somewhere in Sydney.

Which is a bit more than a terabyte, but less than a Tebibyte, inexact, 931 gibibytes.

The reason is a bit of an overhead on your hard drive.

Imagine a bottle of water.

Even if it says one litre on it, there is that little bit that you could pour into that bottleneck to fill it.

So while there should be one terabyte, you will get slightly more.

So I'm guessing if you say one litre, you're saying that you've got the space for more than one litre because there's more space.

Yeah.

Alright, I get it.

By the way, in Hong Kong, when I got bottles of water, when I opened the lid, was each time forgot that whatever that brand of of water was, it's filled right to the brim.

Every time I opened it, I poured water all over myself.

Every time.

That's good value.

It is good value.

Both in terms of water and entertainment.

It said, I really enjoyed listening to Beck trying to understand my world.

Thank you, Dennis.

I appreciate that.

I just love that someone, and Dennis has used quotation marks, normal,

wanted a peek into this madness we call technology.

Very good explanations, too.

I think that's the first time someone's called me normal, so I appreciate that.

There you go.

And I know a lot of people sent in other things,

variations on the same thing

for the megabyte chat.

We appreciate everyone getting involved.

But now, Dennis has had very good explanation.

So, end of the story.

Thank you, Dennis.

Ken got involved.

They wanted to point out.

Oh, hello, Ken.

Ken's got an extra N on there.

They've taken Dennis.

Dennis's other N, Kennan.

Kennen.

Kennis.

Kennis.

So Ken wanted to add in to our chat about the ISO, the International Standards Organization, which is not called that.

I think we mentioned in passing, to mention in passing, the ISO just means the same.

And so

it's not actually an acronym.

They wanted to point out that it's based on the Greek word isos, meaning equal.

So there you go.

Just like if something is isometric.

I remember standing around with a bunch of mathematicians after a conference.

We're like, oh, how should we walk to the pub?

Go this way or that way?

And someone said, ah, doesn't matter.

It's isometric.

And we all went, oh, yeah.

And then we all walked in different directions.

Oh, I like that.

I'd never made that connection.

Wow.

Well, thank you.

Thanks, Ken.

I learned something as well.

I appreciate it.

We also heard from Jillian Freeman on Patreon.

Hi, Julian.

Big shout out to our Patreon supporters who said this was following on from the toothy lion at the dentist's, which we posted a picture of.

Also, there's a new lion.

Dentist Sophie.

Producer Laura will put it on socials.

There is another lion now with teeth there.

I feel like the new lion is less terrifying.

I don't know.

I've popped a photo in the chat.

You can let me know.

We've got dentist Sophie

hugging.

It's less terrifying, but it's iso creepy.

Anyway, Julian Freeman says, if you like soft toys with human teeth, look for Fugglers by Mrs.

McGuetrick.

Now, I am aware of Fugglers.

I've seen them before.

But, Matt, I believe you haven't.

No.

Do a little Google of Fugglers.

I'm going to copy and paste that into

a browser, a search engine, of which there are many.

Okay.

Shall I just go straight to image search?

Okay, but

that's deliberately creepy.

That's like

making a doll look creepy so it looks like it's a prop from a horror film, as opposed to the lion, which is like just accidentally disturbing.

But thanks.

Thanks for watching.

They are kind of brilliant.

Oh, they're an art form in their own right.

But it's no set of dentures shoved into a children's toy.

Well, that's the end of the episode.

Thank you so much for listening.

We try to enjoy every listener equally, but our Patreon supporters, we appreciate

even more.

And we pick three of their names at random for a waffle pot.

No, for a special shout-out at the end.

These are severance jokes.

Such a good show.

We mispronounce three supporters' names at random.

They're both selected at random and we mispronounce them randomly.

This episode features

Mark

us.

Tin.

Nice.

Ni I Lamar Tin.

Tunjk.

Endem.

Hang on.

Tunjk.

E-N-D-O-N.

And now we are completely done.

Huge thanks to co-host Beck Hill.

I've been Matt Parker.

And this

tram is not driverless.

In the driver's seat, not with the steering wheel, but with whatever you use on a tram, has been producer Laura Grimshaw.

Thanks for listening.

Okay,

Matt,

the last time I got a hit

F4,

so today it's caused panic across the entire fleet.

Good.

I'm going to go for G4

G

four.

Mm-hmm.

Miss.

Ooh.

All right.

Now

last time I got a hit on G four,

didn't sink anything.

So I'd like to this time go for G three.

Hit

hit

and what's what's happening?

That's it.

That just a hit and nothing.

Yep.

That's great, great, great, great.

Nothing more to add.

Nothing more to add.