The Trial: New Week, New Juror

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Speaker 1 This is Bad Rap, the case against Diddy. I'm Brian Buckmeyer, an ABC News legal contributor and practicing attorney.
This episode, New Week, New Juror.

Speaker 1 Week six of testimony in USA v. Sean Cohns opened with the judge confirming he will definitely dismiss juror number six.

Speaker 1 Last week, the prosecution asked to have the juror removed after he allegedly made statements to a court officer suggesting he lived in New Jersey, not the Bronx.

Speaker 1 That would make him ineligible to serve on a federal jury in Manhattan. The defense argued the juror should stay and said the government's request was racially motivated.
The removed juror is black.

Speaker 1 The alternate who replaced him is white.

Speaker 1 But the judge said the juror's lack of candor raised questions about whether the man was deliberately deceiving the court to get on the jury and whether his other answers during during jury selection were also untrue.

Speaker 1 The judge said Monday morning, there's nothing the juror could say at this point to put the genie back in the bottle.

Speaker 1 He also said he took the defense's note about race seriously, but added, this jury does not raise those concerns.

Speaker 1 The new juror has been watching testimony as an alternate from the beginning of the trial. He's a 57-year-old architect from a New York City suburb and active in the Boy Scouts.

Speaker 1 With him, the jury now skews slightly older more educated whiter and more suburban

Speaker 1 the government has indicated that it will rest its case as soon as wednesday as late as friday meaning the prosecution is now in wrap-up mode they're putting so-called summary witnesses on the stand who can help review evidence and pull it all together for the jury The court heard a smattering of text and audio messages presented by the prosecution meant to illustrate the alleged cooperation between Combs' assistants and associates.

Speaker 1 The jury saw messages about paying a drug dealer named Guido for Molly pills.

Speaker 1 There was also a text from one of Combs' assistants saying, got a re-up on baby oil after receiving instructions to set up a hotel room for a freak off.

Speaker 1 And the jury also heard a 2018 exchange where Cassie Ventura told Combsia's one-time chief of staff, Christina Coram, I can't do the violence. Coram messaged back, stay focused, not worth derailing.

Speaker 1 The defense highlighted messages that seemed to downplay the alleged role of Combs' employees in buying drugs.

Speaker 1 In one message, Christina Coram said that she does not talk to Guido, that Combs talks to the drug dealer himself.

Speaker 1 Up next in the Diddy trial, court will be closed on Thursday for Juneteenth. And then the defense can pick up their witnesses as soon as Friday.

Speaker 1 They say they have three witnesses ready to go that first day, including Vashta Dunlap, who was a vice president at Bad Boy Entertainment.

Speaker 1 Now, let's get to one of my favorite parts of this podcast, answering your questions. We've gotten such a great response from all of you out there that we've decided to make this a weekly segment.

Speaker 1 We're going to do it every Tuesday. So keep those questions coming.
And now, our first caller.

Speaker 2 Hi, my name is Taisha and I'm in Durham, North Carolina.

Speaker 4 I had a question.

Speaker 2 What about the fact that, like, does Diddy have any witnesses against Cassie or I'm hearing Cassie, Cassie, Cassie? What about Diddy?

Speaker 2 When is somebody going to take the stand for Diddy and say something good about him? So I just wanted to know the answer to that question. Okay, bye.

Speaker 1 All right, Taisha. So whenever it comes to a case, whether it be civil or criminal, what we say is the moving party or the person bringing the allegations, they always go first.

Speaker 1 So in a criminal case, it's the prosecution who is bringing the charges. So they go first.
They put on their witnesses. The defense has an opportunity to cross-examine them.

Speaker 1 And then once the government or the prosecutor is done bringing on their witnesses, they will rest. You might hear that terminology in court.

Speaker 1 And then the defense has their opportunity to bring on their own witnesses. Now, at that initial stage, we call that like the guilt phase of the case.

Speaker 1 And so it's maybe not so much people coming and saying good things about Sean Combs. It's more about attacking the elements or the charges that he's facing.

Speaker 1 If, and I say if, because we don't know as yet, but if Sean Combs is found guilty, then he would have potentially different witnesses take the stand and they would say good things about him for what's called the sentencing part of the case.

Speaker 1 And that's when we know that Sean Combs is guilty. Again, I'm assuming that he is found guilty in this hypothetical.

Speaker 1 We know that he's found guilty and you have people giving what's called mitigation to try to lessen the jail time that he could be facing.

Speaker 1 And so that's when when they'll be saying good things about him.

Speaker 1 But initially, there'll be people talking about the elements and charges of the case to try to raise reasonable doubt on behalf of Sean Coombs. But thanks for the question.

Speaker 5 Hey, Brian, this is Eileen Colling from Texas.

Speaker 5 So I'm curious, I totally agree with Kathy that she is 100% the victim, but from a legal standpoint, if her argument or her case is not compelling enough with her testimony, is it possible that she could have a case against her as well well for sex trafficking if they find Diddy guilty?

Speaker 5 Because it seems like she was with him through all that as well, and she's the common denominator.

Speaker 5 It seems like they had these freak offs with each other and then, you know, rotating these sex workers. So just curious your thoughts on that.
Thanks so much.

Speaker 1 Eileen, I understand where you're going with this thought process, but I would assume, and this is an assumption, Because Cassie testified as an alleged victim in this case, it is highly unlikely that the government will then then turn around and prosecute her as well.

Speaker 1 They would say that she did not have the intent or the mensrea or the capability of trafficking others, even though by her own statements, she reached out to entertainers or sex workers.

Speaker 1 She coordinated some of these events. The idea, both from a factual and legal standpoint, would be that she was under the control or coercion of another and that she did not do it of her own volition.

Speaker 1 So if Sean Combs is found guilty or if even Sean Combs is acquitted of these charges, I would say it's it's highly unlikely that the government would prosecute Cassie just out of the nature of the allegations, but also as a public policy standpoint,

Speaker 1 they don't want alleged victims to come forward, testify against their abusers, and then be fearful that depending on the outcome, one way or another, they too can be prosecuted.

Speaker 1 They don't want to start that precedent. So, I don't see that happening, but I see where you're going with that.
Let's take a listen to the next question.

Speaker 7 Hi, this is Tony from West Virginia. You

Speaker 3 said

Speaker 7 that

Speaker 7 having the sex workers travel across state lines and travel with him being a major part of this case.

Speaker 7 So does that mean if he hired local in-state sex workers wherever he had gone, this may not have even ever been a case? Thanks, great podcast.

Speaker 1 So Tony, that theory is correct, but it would be correct more so to the two lesser lesser charges of transportation to engage in prostitution.

Speaker 1 Oftentimes, when it comes to a federal case, and I'm speaking very specific to federal, it involves the crossing of state lines is probably the easier way to say it, or the legal jargon, kind of clunky way of saying it, is affecting interstate commerce.

Speaker 1 That's often when it becomes a federal case. And so, if he only hired sex workers within the state, he'd probably run afoul of state charges.

Speaker 1 And that might not rise to the level of a federal charge, like transportation to engage in prostitution.

Speaker 1 But if you only hired people within the state, he could still potentially have problems with RICO, for example, or even sex trafficking with the alleged victims of Jane as well as Cassie.

Speaker 1 So it might only affect one or two charges, not necessarily all of them. All right, on to the next question.

Speaker 3 Hey, this is Dave in New York City.

Speaker 8 So this trial has been going on for kind of a while now.

Speaker 8 How long does a normal RICO rico case generally last obviously we know the ysl trial lasted forever but that thing seemed to be a singular mess compared to maybe mob trials or whatever other ricos you know about is this longer shorter what do you think thanks

Speaker 1 dave what a timely question because that ysl rico case just ended last week That case involved rapper Young Thug and 27 associates.

Speaker 1 Prosecutors allege the record label YSL functioned as a criminal street gang. The last of the 28 defendants took a plea to Time Served on June 9th of 2025.

Speaker 1 Don't forget that that trial started November 27th of 2023. Now, I think in Georgia, actually, I know that is the longest case in Georgia history.
And that's unique.

Speaker 1 But there are so many factors that go into RICO cases that make them long, make them short. I mean, compare the YSL case to Sean Combs' case.

Speaker 1 With Sean Combs, you have one defendant with a RICO charge and eight predicate acts.

Speaker 1 Again, those are kidnapping, arson, bribery, witness tampering, forced labor, sex trafficking, transportation for the purposes of prostitution, and drug distribution.

Speaker 1 Eight weeks kind of makes sense, especially considering the number of witnesses taking a stand and the type of defense that we have here.

Speaker 1 While with the YSL case, you have 28 defendants and far more predicate acts that I can calculate based on each and every one of those defendants putting them all together.

Speaker 1 And so really to answer your question, it's hard to say what is a normal length of a RICO case because I've had RICO cases myself where I have 10 defendants. They can have two defendants.

Speaker 1 They can have 20 defendants. You can have five predicate acts.
You can have 120 predicate acts.

Speaker 1 It really depends on the number of defendants and the number of predicate acts as to how long or how short one of these RICO cases could be.

Speaker 1 Because Sean Combs is the only one on the indictment and there's only eight predicate acts, I would say this is on the shorter side of a RICO case, but that's only again because of the number of defendants and the number of predicate acts.

Speaker 1 You kind of have to calculate based on those two factors. But good call on the question, and thanks for calling in.

Speaker 1 Let's take a quick break. And when we come back, your questions on sequestering the jury and why cameras aren't allowed in the courtroom.

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Speaker 4 hi this is kelly from dallas texas my question is

Speaker 4 if

Speaker 1 is found guilty what happens to his companies and the employees there thank you so when i think about if sean combs is found guilty what happens to his companies and employees i think of two things i think of forfeiture which is a part of this indictment.

Speaker 1 If there are any ways to connect the money that was received, the property that was gained, or the property that was used, like Sean Combs' Miami home that allegedly had a number of items associated with the Rico conspiracy, as well as some of the sex trafficking allegations, Sean Combs' home in Miami, in my mind, that's gone if he's convicted.

Speaker 1 Any money that might be associated with any bank accounts or any corporations that can be tied to his crimes, also gone if convicted.

Speaker 1 The other thing I think about is criminal liability in terms of his companies and or his employees. Now, we know there are a number of civil lawsuits going around.

Speaker 1 A recent one just came out last week.

Speaker 1 His companies and employees have been named in a number of civil lawsuits and they could be civilly liable if there is any direct connection to what these alleged victims say happened to them.

Speaker 1 Now, We should say here that Diddy denies all allegations in those civil lawsuits.

Speaker 1 And his former chief of staff, Christina Coram, also released a statement saying she was confident that the allegations against her will be proven untrue.

Speaker 1 Criminal liability, a corporation is unlikely and actually cannot be criminally liable for these actions.

Speaker 1 But if any of his employees are named in any kind of criminal indictments in the future, we know that Sean Combs is merely just facing one criminal case against him.

Speaker 1 We have no idea if there will be other criminal cases.

Speaker 1 But if the facts lead in that direction and the Southern District of New York or other federal courthouses feel it necessary to pursue those charges, yes, if you committed a crime that the government can pursue, then there's that possibility.

Speaker 1 But at this point, we haven't heard anything that would lead me to think that employees could face criminal liability outside of Sean Combs. Thanks for calling in.

Speaker 1 A lot of you called in with questions about the jury.

Speaker 9 Hey, Brian, my name is Dustin from Dallas, Texas.

Speaker 6 My name is Catherine, and I am from Louisiana.

Speaker 5 This is Roslyn calling from the Chicago area.

Speaker 10 This is Alicia calling from Dresden, Ohio.

Speaker 9 My question is, are the jury members in the Diddy trial being sequestered or are they able to receive outside media and to talk to each other?

Speaker 10 I feel like this case is such a big popular case that they would want to sequester the jury. So I was just wondering why they would or wouldn't do that.

Speaker 5 What are the ways that the court can ensure that the jury is not compromised in any way.

Speaker 10 Obviously, there's this podcast, there's other podcasts, there's things on the news. Are they allowed to listen to these items while they're on break? Thanks.

Speaker 1 Wait, there are other Diddy podcasts? Well, let's put it this way.

Speaker 1 They're not being sequestered. Could it be asked as to whether or not they're sequestered during deliberations? That's for another episode when we get more information down the line.

Speaker 1 But what I think here is that the judge is very conscious of the fact that this is an eight-week long trial.

Speaker 1 There's a reason why the judge said for most days, unless they really have a lot of work to be done, that the case will end each day at 3 p.m. So they can go live their lives.

Speaker 1 The judge doesn't want a frustrated and exhausted jury.

Speaker 1 Now, when it comes to the questions of how do they make sure they don't listen to other media outlets or TV or whatever that may be, it's kind of the honor code.

Speaker 1 You tell the jury that they're not supposed to look out for information. Of course, if they're walking through a coffee shop or whatever it may be, the news may be on and something may pop up.

Speaker 1 They're supposed to kind of just turn away and walk away so they don't hear it.

Speaker 1 If they do hear anything, they're supposed to, again, on the honor code, relay that to any jury staff that's in the court.

Speaker 1 They bring that up to the judge and the judge will relay that to both the government and the defense and they'll talk about what was heard. Is this going to affect their mindset of the case?

Speaker 1 How much did they hear? How bad is it? They'll make that evaluation. But at this point, again, I go back to it's just kind of the honor code where you say, don't listen, don't look for it.

Speaker 1 If you hear the conversation, if you hear it on TV, walk away and let us know if you hear anything.

Speaker 1 And so that's pretty much how it's operating because it's such a long case and the judge doesn't want to sequester people for literally two months. All right, next question.

Speaker 6 Hi, my name is Delena from Missouri. I just had a question regarding how this trial is not televised.
I noticed in the past, big trials like O.J.

Speaker 6 Simpson, the Menendez brothers, and even trials as big as Johnny Depp and Amber Heard were all televised and broadcasted. However, Diddy's is not being televised.
Is there a reason why?

Speaker 4 Thank you.

Speaker 1 It is the Supreme Court of the United States that makes rules for all federal courts.

Speaker 1 And I think you'd have to raise this issue with Chief Justice Roberts as to why there are no cameras, not only in the Supreme Supreme Court in the United States, but all federal courts.

Speaker 1 The cases you listed, O.J. Simpson, Menendez Brothers, Johnny Depp, and Amber Heard, those are all state cases.
And those states allow for cameras to be in the courts to televise those cases.

Speaker 1 It's their interpretation of what a public trial is. And that's part of our constitutional right that everyone has.

Speaker 1 Some states and the federal government believes that a public trial is simply having enough people inside that courtroom or even the courthouse where there may be what we call overflow rooms where people can sit in other courtrooms and watch a closed circuit video of what's going on inside the court.

Speaker 1 And if you came down to lower Manhattan to the southern district of New York, there are two overflow rooms that if you can't get into the main courtroom, you can watch from there.

Speaker 1 That's how they believe having a public courtroom works. But in states like California, where the O.J.

Speaker 1 Simpson and Menendez brothers case were, or Johnny Depp and Amber Heard in Virginia, those states interpret a public trial trial much more broadly and allow for cameras to be in court so people all across the country, even the world, can watch what's going on.

Speaker 1 Okay, last call for today.

Speaker 11 Hi, this is Diane from Manchester, New Hampshire. My question is, is any celebrities going to be taking the stand or are they going to be looked into

Speaker 11 knowing what was going on with Diddy behind the scenes?

Speaker 1 Diane, thanks for calling in. As of now, no celebrities have been scheduled to take the stand that we know of.
We know that the government has already signaled as to who their last witnesses are.

Speaker 1 The defense has only signaled as to who they expect to testify on Friday. Now, while people like Michael B.
Jordan and Mike Myers came up in jury selection, people were curious.

Speaker 1 Are we going to hear about them? It turns out Michael B. Jordan was set up on a date with Cassie Ventura by a government witness.
One of Diddy's assistants was previously an assistant to Mike Myers.

Speaker 1 There were no allegations in the case that Michael B. Jordan or Mike Myers had anything to do with what Sean Combs is being accused of, merely that their names came up as individuals in this case.

Speaker 1 And so it's very unlikely that they would testify in any capacity. Though he wasn't there to take the stand, we did have one really big celebrity appearance last week.

Speaker 1 Picture this. Friday afternoon, I step outside the courthouse to check in with my ABC colleagues.
All of a sudden, a black Mercedes pulls up and out comes Kanye West, or yay, in an all-white outfit.

Speaker 1 I pulled out my phone and caught his arrival on tape, which you're hearing now.

Speaker 1 He was an arm's distance away from me. How could I not ask him questions?

Speaker 1 Later, as Kanye walked through the courthouse, an ABC colleague asked if he was there to support Sean Combs, to which Kanye nodded his head yes.

Speaker 1 If you appreciate this coverage, coverage, please share it and give us a rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Thanks for listening.

Speaker 1 And if you're looking for even more coverage of the Diddy trial, you can check out Burden of Proof: the case against Diddy. The show streams weekdays at 5:30 p.m.
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