Part Two: Laetrile: The Fake Cancer Cure That Birthed The Right-Wing Medical Grifting Industry

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welcome back.

It's Bastards Pod Behind Cas.

Hi, I'm Robert.

This is a podcast about bad people.

It's part two of our episodes about Latrille, the medicine that invented the weird right-wing fake medicine industrial complex that is now helping to run our government.

So, you know, we're all learning that story today.

And with me, to continue to be unhappy, Miles Gray.

Hey, hey, hey, how are you doing?

Thanks for having me back.

Thanks for coming back, Miles.

I know we ended on a cliffhanger last time because obviously, you know, they've been banned now.

Litril has been defeated.

Yeah, Littrill has been defeated forever.

Well, no.

What was defeated was the Krebs's being able to produce or sell literal, right?

Oh,

unfortunately, somehow Littrill has returned in part two.

Oh, god,

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So, as I ended the last episode saying, well, yeah, no, the FDA charged Krebs and the John Beard Memorial Foundation, banned them from selling Latrille or making it.

But Krebs reached out to his physician friends and they started a letter writing campaign.

They got a bunch of their patients writing in to be like, I need this medicine.

I need it.

Oh my God, you can't know how much it's helped me.

And the judge, you know, letter writing campaigns, this is still kind of new as a concept that you would do this, especially to a judge.

And this judge suddenly receives hundreds of letters like he's never gotten before and is like, oh, God, I guess I better, I need to, I guess I better give them some way to keep getting this stuff, right?

So he tells the Krebs is, look, you can sell off the remaining stockpile that you have, but you got to sell it to this unrelated guy, McNaughton, who definitely isn't your friend and in business with you, right?

This Canadian gun runner.

You got to sell your stuff to him.

He'll take care of it.

He'll make sure it gets to the right people.

So that 1961 settlement marks kind of the end of the first era, or it's the beginning of the end for the first era of the Krebs family's anti-cancer medications, right?

And, you know, in the early days, the goal had been: we're going to make a scientific case for the new medicine.

We'll get acceptance from professional doctors, right?

And by kind of the 60s, it's starting to become clear throughout the decade, this isn't going to be the way forward in the future.

So people start, you know, over in California, the Cancer Advisory Council has begun to develop a serious interest in Latrille, which they had first learned about after being sent questions from journalists around the country about the alleged miracle cancer cure that California doctors were using.

One of Krebs' physician customers had talked to a reporter and given them a list of his patients, saying, hey, just ask these people how well the treatment worked, because boy, howdy, HIPAA laws

did not exist back then.

Oh, you need names and numbers?

He's just like, no, here's all my patients and what they've been given.

Oh, yeah.

Just go right through them.

Yep.

Yep.

Here's their home addresses.

I don't give a shit.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Betty Boop was one of my, one of my best patients, actually.

Yeah, you should definitely call her.

So brief investigation by

the California Cancer Advisory Council made it clear to them that Ernest Krebs Jr.

was actively working to sell more and more physicians in more states on this investigational drug.

But even though this was an investigational drug, no one seemed to be publishing any research about it, right?

Where are the investigations?

It's just being used on people and nobody's documenting shit.

They also become aware that he's selling literal overseas, even after the injunction against selling it, but the FDA can't stop him from doing stuff overseas, right?

Like the fact that there's like a British subsidiary selling stuff, they can't really...

get involved with it.

Yeah, yeah, that's a whole other thing.

Yeah.

Good luck.

Now,

during this period of time, Dr.

Krebs Jr., fake Dr.

Krebs Jr., is writing letters to pharmaceutical entrepreneurs like this, quote, the field of cancer chemotherapy is a law to itself.

This jungle offers the greatest opportunity anywhere in commerce at this moment.

But there are snakes in every bush.

I believe it's best to push hard, sell, don't be backward about disaffecting a few, and establish the trill right from the start as something precious that not even hospitals get for nothing.

So in his private writing, he's like, look, we got to make this stuff expensive.

You got to charge out the ass for it, right?

Like, this is precious stuff.

We won't even sell it to the dying for free, you know?

Like that is the private Dr.

Krebs Jr.

Right, right, right.

Exactly.

He's like, oh my God, we got a winner.

Yeah.

It's also the fact that he says cancer chemotherapy is a law unto himself.

He is calling latriol a kind of chemotherapy, right?

Because that is chemo is new and exciting at this point in like the late 50s, early 60s.

The idea that like, well, finally, there's something that works, right?

So he is trying to tell people this is the same thing, right?

It's just, you know, a better kind of chemo that's less harsh on your body, you know?

Like, but that's basically how they're arguing this works.

It's fucking way better chemo, basically, is what I call it.

It's super chemo, pretty much, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

So from 1960 to 62, the Cancer Advisory Council sent 10 doctors and five research scientists to the task of investigating Latrill.

This included evaluating more than 100 case studies by different Latril advocates.

Despite this mountain of so-called proof, the council found no compelling evidence that Latrill had helped anyone fight cancer.

In fact, although Krebs Jr.

constantly claimed to have documented dozens of cured patients, he would repeatedly fail to furnish this information when asked.

So the California Medical Association had to go digging.

And I want to quote from an article on the website PatientWorthy here.

The association pressed Krebs Jr.

for his clinical data and proof-of-controlled studies.

Krebs Jr.

claimed he had performed the studies, but destroyed any related files.

While conducting background checks on his former patients, the CMA found that 19 of the 44 patients Krebs Jr.

had referred them to had died within two years of receiving their treatment.

Some even seemed to be exhibiting symptoms of cyanide poisoning.

The agency quickly condemned Latrille, as did the California State Department of Public Health.

So when they're finally able to get some data where he's like, yeah, here's 44 people who like came to my clinic, they're like, fucking half these people are dead.

And it looks like a lot of them died from cyanide poisoning.

I don't know.

Maybe they were into that shit.

I don't know.

Maybe you got to ask them what they were doing with that shit.

Have you considered maybe it was recreational cyanide poisoning, you know?

Yeah, you know, people are fucking weird with that shit.

People love cyanide.

Oh my God, you walk into a preschool and give the kids a big vial of cyanide.

They'll have a good time with it.

They love it.

All the rock stars, they're doing it.

Everyone's into it.

Everyone's doing cyanide.

The nide?

Yeah.

Yeah, the night.

So after further work, including running tests on latril and a new synthetic litril that Krebs Jr.

had invented, the council determined the substance had no value for treating, minimizing the symptoms of, or outright curing cancer.

This prompted the state to regulate Latrille for the first time.

In 1965, a new regulation was issued in California that banned Latrill and all substantially similar agents from being sold as a cancer treatment.

So, Krebs Sr.

and his boy took this into stride.

They kept moving Latrille on the side, of course, but they had to pretend to stay on the straight and narrow now that the man was watching them.

Even so, they repeatedly round up in court.

Krebs Jr.

was actually convicted in 1965 over a contempt charge because he he refused to stop selling latriles.

In 1966, he was convicted again for contempt, again, because he was caught shipping latril in violation of the injunction.

His story at this point becomes one we've seen all too often.

A rich con man breaks the law repeatedly, but only gets a slap on the wrist each time.

He was sentenced to a year in prison, and then the sentence was immediately suspended, so he kept doing it, and he brought in his brother Byron, the osteopath, to help sell and market the stuff.

In 1974, Byron and Krebs Jr.

are both charged and both pled guilty to violating the Californian law yet again.

They were given six-month suspended sentences.

The only one who actually suffered a real penalty was Byron, who had an actual osteopath's license and had it revoked for incompetence.

The only one who saw consequences was Byron, because they thought he was black when they saw that name.

It was a doctor, at least.

He was white.

It's crazy just not dealing with these people's fucking crimes because of their privilege.

That's always the case.

The guy run the country right now.

Yeah, just let him get away with it forever.

It's like a little fucking snowball.

And now we have shit mountain that we're snowboarding down.

They're just selling cyanide as a cancer cure.

It's not like they're selling, I don't know, cocaine, you know, or heroin or marijuana, God forbid.

Wait, hold on.

I'm not selling cyanide.

Their bodies are turning that.

That's what their bodies are choosing to do with it.

Okay.

Some of the people, it doesn't.

It cures them.

It's not like they shoplifted, right?

You You know, they're just poisoning people with cyanide.

What do you want me to say, man?

It's not even called cyanide.

It's not that good stuff.

It's not even cyanide quite yet until you eat it.

That's so unfair that you would say that.

Oh, my God.

So 74, Byron loses his osteopath license.

And a QuackWatch article I found just noted that after this quote, Byron died shortly thereafter.

And I was like, what happened?

Right?

I wanted to look into it.

So I found a slightly more detailed reference to Byron in a family obituary when Krebs Jr.

died in 1966.

This is Krebs Jr.'s fucking obituary.

He died in 66?

1996.

Oh, 96.

Yeah.

Byron Krebs died in 1974.

And the line in the obituary just reads, Byron Krebs died in a laboratory explosion?

I really,

there's more story there than we have.

And I want it.

Did he?

What the fuck?

Wow.

My assumption is that he was trying to find another hat cancer remedy that like, you know, would get around the California law, and it just blew up in his face very literally because none of the Krebs family are good scientists.

You think he was using like nitroglycerin or something?

Maybe dynamite cures.

If mustard gas cures cancer, dynamite must.

I mean, radiation, the atomic bomb.

I'm trying all the bombs.

Yeah.

These are just bomb-ass cures that I'm working on.

You ever try vaping hexagen?

It fixes you right the fuck up.

Oh my god.

Oh man.

what the fuck died in a laboratory i just wait what

explosion not fire explosion can you just give me the sentence before that just so i like the flow of this sentence oh god uh i guess i can pull up my sources one sec just because i think that's just the funniest line in an obituary it's like yeah the brother dyer died in a fucking loud explosion anyway one sec i'm pulling up my my source for the obituary that this is how you guys know this shit is thorough yeah just off the cuff i'm having to inconvenience Robert.

He's got two obituaries.

One is like the news obituary that talks about, you know, the real stuff that he did.

Right, right, right.

This is the family one.

So, yeah, okay.

Ernst Sr.

died in 1970 at age 93.

Mr.

Krebs was convicted in 73 of practicing medicine without a license, as well as falsely representing Latrille as a cancer cure and dispensing it.

He and his brother, a physician who is found guilty of prescribing the substance, were fined.

Byron Krebs died in a laboratory explosion in 1974.

I love the way that shit reads, dude.

Yeah, it's very funny.

It's a bop.

So, with Byron Krebs gone and Krebs Sr.

in his 90s, McNaughton took an increasingly active role in selling Latrille.

After failing to get respected cancer charities to support Latrille's studies, he managed to help convince the American Weekly, a prominent magazine, to publish two puff articles about Latrille.

Next, per Quackwatch, they were followed shortly by a paperback book from which they had been taken, Latrille, Control for Cancer.

The most important medical news of our time, the cover promised.

The first major breakthrough in the cancer mystery.

The day is near when no one will need to die from cancer.

Latrille, the revolutionary new anti-cancer drug, will be to cancer what insulin is to diabetes.

Written by Clint D.

Kittler, who earlier had acclaimed Krebs Jr.

as Nobel Prize material, the book presented a highly dramatic version of Latrill's discovery and a most optimistic rendering of Krebs' sponsored clinical experience with the drug.

To use the term cures for cancer, Kittler considered inaccurate, but he added: The idea of a cancer control, on the other hand, is perfectly plausible.

In the minds of an increasing number of leading scientists, the best control now available is Leitrille.

The book concluded by quoting Andrew McNaughton to the same effect.

McNaughton contributed also to the book's foreword, to which he appended his foundation's Montreal address.

Letters of inquiry sent to the foundation received replies saying Letrille might soon be available.

So, again, he's like, all right, they got in trouble for calling us a cure.

It's not a cure, it's a control.

It's like a brake pedal for cancer, you know?

What the fuck?

We put a governor on this bad boy.

Exactly, man.

Just fucking unless you get to it.

Unless you're at a racetrack, it knows with the GPS.

Then the chip turns off.

Yeah.

God, that's so funny.

Now, this would not be the first time a fake miracle cure had been pushed by a book, but previously it was mostly stuff like Dianetics, right?

Or the power of positive thinking, where you're making claims, sometimes even medical ones, about like we can cure this psychiatric illness or whatever.

But it's usually like the thing you're saying is like, and it's a way of meditating or a way of thinking or a rule of the universe you don't know.

This is one of the first times, if not the first time, that there's like a major book published to get people to take a fake drug as a cancer cure in like the modern era, right?

Yeah.

So yeah, the book itself did not sell as well as the publisher had hoped, but it sells pretty well.

It's just that they buy like five times as many copies as it possibly could have sold.

So it's, it like fucks up the publisher, but a lot of people people do get copies of this book.

It is influential, right?

And it sells well enough to bring thousands of new customers to the fantasy world being crafted by the Krebses and McNaughton.

As Latrille spread around the world, it was banned, first in California, then Canada, and several other U.S.

states.

McNaughton lost a major lawsuit in the mid-60s, and Ernst Krebs Sr.

was permanently enjoined against ever selling another dose of Latrille, which he continued prescribing for the remainder of his life, which ended in 1970 when he fell down the stairs, either 93 or 94.

I've seen both.

I'm not going to do it.

After a lab explosion.

He's too old, right?

Yeah, the lab explosion threw him down the stairs.

Oh, fuck.

Now, Ernst Krebs Jr., the fake doctor, was the only Krebs left alive or in the business now, which was largely being operated by Andrew McNaughton, as he had both the corporate structure and money for the legal muscle necessary to keep fighting the fight.

Whenever one of his corporate entities would attract too much heat, McNaughton would create a new one and continue manufacturing and shipping the

from eventually Sausalito.

In 1970, he again begged the FDA to approve Latril for experimental use on humans.

To do this, he had to craft an investigational new drug application, or IND, which is if you think you've got a medicine that you need to test, you make that and you send it to the government and they're like, yeah.

This seems like it's probably worth testing on people and safe to test on people or something else.

Let's try it, right?

Now, this is not a good application, and it's never going to get accepted.

But the application, which makes the Trill sound wonderful, starts getting shared around.

Like, you know, today it'd be on fucking Twitter, but like it's just being passed.

Copies of it are being passed around to this growing network of Litrill activists that have started forming in the 60s.

And they've started seeing themselves as activists because they're convinced this is going to save them or that it did save them.

And there's a lot of these people are folks who had a cancer.

and they took litril and a traditional therapy and they got better, but they keep taking the Trill because they're convinced it'll keep them from getting the cancer again.

And it's again, there's this like trauma of the cancer was so scary.

Maybe if I just never stop taking this stuff, I won't get it again.

Right.

Because that's one of the things that Krebs is claiming: is that actually, yeah, you can just take it for maintenance and it'll make keep your body inhospitable to cancer.

You know, fuck it.

Why not?

Right.

Jesus.

So.

The central mover of this kind of shift from you've got some patients and whatnot who are like angry and they got convinced to do a letter writing campaign to there is like a network of activists who are working together in organizations in order to fight for their right to this fake medicine.

The person who causes that shift most directly is a teacher from Southern California named Cecile Hoffman.

She had been diagnosed with breast cancer in 1959 and endured a horrible mastectomy to deal with it, right?

This is 59 medicine.

Her mastectomy, number one, is just a nightmarish procedure.

It's extremely painful.

She doesn't heal well.

And number two, they don't do a good job at it.

So her cancer doesn't go away entirely.

And a couple years later, she finds out that it's spread.

And again,

this is the stage of it where you do have to have a lot of sympathy for these people.

She's being told, well, we need to do chemo, right?

We need to do another medical intervention.

She's had one and it was horrible.

And then Latrille activists find, well, to be more accurate, she starts doing her own research and she finds the book I just talked about and she reads McNaughton's foreword and she's like, well, fuck this.

I'm I'm going to take Latrille, right?

Like, that's clearly the best option.

And you have to have, again, some sympathy for this woman, but her impact is going to be disastrous.

So, at first, she's, she's, she lives in like LA.

She's like, or she lives in San Diego, I think.

She starts traveling to Montreal to get, because she can't get in California, and she takes it in Montreal for a while, but then Latrille gets restricted in Montreal.

And so, she becomes the very first person to take to Mexico to get her Latrille fix, right?

She is patient zero from Mexican litril, and she finds a doctor down in Tijuana named Ernesto Contreras who is happy to prescribe this stuff despite not knowing the first thing about it.

And Contreras is important because he is one of our very first, he's very good at marketing himself.

He's at this point just a small family doctor, but he's going to immediately latch on to this grift.

And he's one of the first vibes-only MDs.

He calls himself like a holistic doctor and shit, but he's basically like, you know, what's most important a lot of the time, it's not even the medicine.

You know, I don't always always know why the medicine works.

It's about how good you make them feel.

It's about chilling them out.

It's about keeping people positive, right?

You know, that, that'll do a lot, right?

That does most of what we need to do.

So they just come in and I just tell them whatever they want to hear.

They say they think they need Latrelle.

I'll tell them, yeah, it'll definitely cure you.

Here, have it, you know?

And he's like, really a nice guy.

Not in like, I mean, a nice guy in the sense that like people like him, not that he's a good person.

Those things get inflated.

He's a bad person, but he's extremely charming.

People really, really feel comfortable.

He's got great bedside manner, right?

And he'll just say yes to whatever insane thing people want prescribed, as long as they're paying.

In 1963, Cecile founds the International Association of Cancer Victims and Friends.

And once she met Dr.

Contreras, she starts telling all of her friends and fellow sufferers in this international association about him.

And she's like, look, if you're sick, this is where this is the only good doctor.

This is the guy who knows how to cure cancer.

You could trust him.

He'll get you your meds.

He doesn't care about, you know, these little things like, has Latrille helped anybody?

Is it just cyanide?

is it medically sound come to his tijuana clinic and he will cure you right so she starts this trend both of organizing these patients together and of being like let's all head to tijuana for good medicine um in other words cecile hoffman is an ur figure in the annals of patient alternative medicine advocates right she is she is the precursor to uh what's her name Ginny McCarthy, right?

Like that's very much what we're talking about with Cecile.

So she's going to host a dating show called Singled Out?

Bad news about that.

But before we get to that, let me read a quote about her from Dr.

Ben Wilson.

Persuaded that Latrille had saved her life, angry that this treatment was not legally available in the United States, Mrs.

Hoffman established her International Association.

Through print, meetings, and personal evangelism, the association castigated out-of-date, outmoded, so-called orthodox treatment and vigorously espoused what Mrs.

Hoffman termed non-toxic, beneficial therapies, especially Latrille.

Krebs Jr., Contreras, and in time dean burke addressed the international association assemblies the organization provided cancer sufferers with information on how to get to tijuana so it's not yet they're not yet smuggling people but they're telling them here's how to get here here's what to do and they're they're spreading this around by like word of mouth so by the end of the 60s krebs jr mcnaughton dr contreras and cecile have set up latril for a booming 1970s right all the ingredients are there right like we've we've figured out how to like market and sell this stuff stuff.

We're starting to organize patients to like provide, you know, pressure to judges and eventually to legislators.

And we've got these, we've got this like word of mouth network set up with like an advocate organization and we've got a clinic in Mexico that we're sending them to, right?

Everything, everything you need for this to really explode in the 70s.

Tragically, Cecile will not live to see that decade.

Despite more than six years of latril treatment, she died in 1969 of metastatic cancer because instead of treating her cancer, she did nothing.

And that's what happens with that, right?

But she took Latrille.

Yeah, and it killed her.

She dies a horrible death.

No one in her organization seems to have questioned what this might mean about the validity of Latrillism medicine.

Yeah.

You know what else no one questions?

I've never questioned it.

You certainly shouldn't.

What?

The products and services that support this podcast.

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Oh my gosh, we're back and we're talking literal.

So, Hoffman, who is dead now, but you know, as the 70s starts, her chief innovation will outlive her.

And the primary thing that she does that's relevant to us today is that she's, as far as I can tell, the first person who brings the catchphrase freedom of choice to the debate about what kind of stuff you should be able to sell as medicine.

Oh, wow.

Right.

She is the one who was like, it's a freedom of choice thing, you know, as to what medicine is.

You know, who's to say what's not medicine?

I, it's my, I have a right as an American, a First Amendment right to say what medicine is.

My medicine is.

Right, absolutely.

Now, her organization works really well alongside a slightly older group.

She's not her group.

This foundation is not the first group that starts pushing this.

And well, they hadn't used that exact language.

They had been doing a version of like, it's a freedom thing, right?

And this older organization is the National Health Foundation, which had been established, I think, in 1955 by a different con man who was marketing fake health devices that kept getting banned.

And the foundation,

again, these guys are early advocates for what?

They're saying we can't sell just any old crap?

Well, fuck that, you know?

And they reach out aggressively to every new little organization that bumps up in the 70s focused on unorthodox medical and health treatments.

Like, if you think meditation has taught you Venusian health magic, or if you think Latril is a wonder drug, they will fight for your right.

You know, like your sacred right to die unnecessarily taking nonsense.

Who's to fucking tell you what science is?

Scientists?

It's so frustrating because all of these arguments, if you replace fake medicine with real illegal drugs, I'm like, yeah, legalize it.

It's everyone's choice.

If you want to fucking get addicted to heroin,

that's your choice, I believe.

But you know what heroin is.

You should be informed of it, right?

Just be told that like, yeah, this kills people all the fucking time.

It's super dangerous.

What does it do?

It gets horribly addicted.

to.

The first one's going to be a fucking wild one.

You're going to feel great and then it's going to destroy your life, right?

Then you're going to chase the dragon, as it were.

I am okay with like cocaine marketed as like, this is horrible for you and will make you a worse person, right?

Like, just be honest about all of this stuff.

Yeah, super hard.

But let people be a lot.

And you will fart a lot.

Pot.

Pot, you're not nearly as interesting as you think you are.

But go ahead, asshole.

Sure, fuck it.

This is not keying you on the secrets of the universe, actually.

And it may not even be relaxing you as much as you think it is.

Yeah, your ideas aren't getting better when you're writing a song.

These are, it's fine.

Well, with the exception of exactly one and a half beers, you know?

Maybe a little bit of acid.

There you go.

Some mushrooms.

These are good acids.

Some Adderall that you grind up and shoot.

Okay, whatever.

So in 1970, Ernst Krebs Jr.

would usher in his last major innovation for Latrille, and this is the second Latril era.

So the first era is, everybody loves chemicals, right?

Latrille is basically chemo.

It's another weird chemical that we found that'll save you, right?

By 1970, people are kind of over weird chemicals.

They're starting to be like, what if I want to be natural and healthy and, you know, diet and exercise and all this stuff, right?

And so he reads the tea leaves and he's like, okay, people don't want a random chemical to shoot into themselves or to take his pills.

This is like the health era, right?

So, hmm, let me think.

People have started to learn that chemo is pretty unpleasant to experience, even though it works.

What if I'm like chemo?

The reason it's unpleasant is it's unnatural, right?

And what I've got, what I've got is a natural drug for a new and health-conscious era.

See, latril, it doesn't work like chemotherapy.

It's not a chemical.

It's a vitamin.

And cancer is obviously caused by a vitamin deficiency.

Exactly.

And I found the new vitamin that no one knew about before that you're all deficient in.

And that's what latril is.

I want to quote now from an article in the Cancer Journal for Clinicians.

In 1970, Ernst Krebs Jr.

announced that he had discovered the etiology of all forms of cancer.

Cancer, he concluded, was a vitamin deficiency disease, every bit as much as it is pernicious anemia.

According to Krebs Jr., the missing vitamin in cancer was litril, which he called vitamin B17.

Oh my God.

It's B17.

You know, B12 is five numbers better than B12.

Dude, wait till I drop B52, bro.

Yeah.

That's just going to fucking crack your mind.

It's fucking nuts.

So this is not a new scheme for his family, like faking that you've got a fucking

new vitamin.

If you remember in the last episode, he and his dad got in trouble for selling pengamic acid,

which also came from the kernels of Sheld Apricot Seeds.

They had a real apricot thing.

And in 1945, Krebs Sr.

had claimed this is a systemic detoxicant, which can cure all allergies.

So both, first off, He's like a pioneer in saying that like this is, there's toxins.

We got to detox you.

Gets them out.

gets them right out yeah and he's like also it cures arthritis for some reason uh he marketed it as allergenase and described it as vitamin b 15 even though again it's not a vitamin so his son is like yeah latril it's really vitamin b 17 and you can't ban the sale of vitamins right

no you can't

now The surprising number of kooks and cranks who liked this stuff had been isolated before, but in the 70s, they also increasingly come together.

And, you know, Cecile Hoffman was a big part of that.

And they started bombarding lawmakers with letters and professional-grade lobbying campaigns.

The Federation's journal compared its members to Abraham Lincoln, reminding them that he too fought for liberty against great odds.

Wow.

You know, slavery, that's the same as me not being able to poison you with this shit.

Exactly, dude.

I don't want you to tell me I can't cyanide myself.

Yeah, right.

If you don't have the right to take cyanide, what right do you have?

None.

None.

That's my opinion.

What did our forefathers fight for?

Yeah, yeah, Definitely cyanide.

Now, at this stage, the unorthodox medical movement or the bullshit medical movement was not right or left-wing, right?

A good number of people who are drawn into this are drawn in again for an understandable reason.

It's no longer, we just don't know much about medicine and there's no real way to treat what I have, so I'm desperate.

But a lot of people are now like, well, the government says this stuff is bad.

And the government says, listen to this guy about what's good.

But the government also said that like, you know, they didn't murder Fred Hampton or that they didn't weren't tracking Martin Luther King Jr.

And we know that's a lie.

And the government said that like the Vietnam War was absolutely necessary.

We know that's a lie.

Yeah, yeah.

Right.

Like there's this understanding.

They said we beat the Nazis too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So there's this degree of like people are really starting to realize, oh, the American government can't be trusted, which is true, but they're unfortunately extrapolating.

fucking I can't trust LBJ about Vietnam to like, why would I trust a doctor about what cures cancer, you know?

Except for this doctor who's not a doctor?

Yep.

That's, that's how it all starts.

You just need one thing to kind of be true.

And then just like, oh, now I'll apply it to everything.

And unfortunately, there's not like a, one of the things I hate about this story is there's not a lot of a simple, there's not a simple lesson here.

I would love it if the simple lesson was when somebody does something like this, you got to come after them like the hammer of God and really just nuke the person for trying to like feed people fake medicine.

But one important part of the story here is that the aggression with which the government goes after these guys, and not personally, because they're never really personally going after these guys, but the aggression with which they go after people smuggling litril and possessing littrill is part of what fuels this backlash.

And it all gets swept up and like, well, the anti-war movement, all this other anti-government stuff that's going on right now.

Like, and so

it's getting in an increasingly, it's got inroads to like both kind of sides of the political spectrum who don't trust the government and who like see this crackdown.

They're like, well, they must be hiding something, right?

California really, really doubles down on arresting and intercepting people who are bringing in latril shipments.

One woman named Mary Welchel had helped establish what she called the Underground Railroad of Latril, smuggling cancer patients from the U.S.

to Dr.

Contreras' clinic, which had gone from, he used to run it out of his home, and now it's a whole compound with like bungalows for long-term patient care.

So Welchell starts smuggling people there and gets caught and convicted in 1971 of delivering an illegal compound for treating cancer and fined.

And basically, you won't have to go to jail if you don't take anyone to Mexico for two years.

Although her conviction is set aside.

So it's this mix of they're publicly going after these people who seem sympathetic, but then they're not actually punishing them.

I think it's that poisonous hybrid where it's like they both look like the evil 1984 government, but also there's no real incentive to stop for the people making money because you know you're not going to really get in trouble.

The Underground Railroad.

I love that.

I love that.

I'm like the Harriet Tubman of convincing children to take cyanide.

I'm the Harriet bathtub gen of poisoning yourself.

I wish if scientists ever invent the only ethical use for a time machine would be to go back in time to people like Harriet Tubman and tell them all the fucked up ways their name is used in the future.

And just like, all right, Martin Luther King, here's a list of like quotes people have printed out pretending to agree with you.

Yeah, exactly.

And here's a hammer.

Do you just want to like take some, take care of business?

You want to come with me in a time machine, man?

Yeah, we can fuck some people up.

Like you're owed.

Oh, man.

Through the early 70s, McNaughton continued to act as the godfather of Latrille, but then a Canadian judge convicted him of fraud, not for the medical stuff, but for manipulating stock prices.

So he has to flee Canada.

And he's like, well, the U.S.

is obviously no safer for me.

So he starts living in Tijuana and reorganizes his business around both advertising Mexican Latril clinics, and he's cut in on that business, and overseeing the the smuggling of latril into the U.S.

from Mexico.

He's like a reverse drug coyote.

So the second period of latril history is generally considered to have ended sometime in the early 1970s, right?

As the need to justify latril scientifically faded away entirely.

You know, they start with like, it's like chemo and then they're like, it's a vitamin.

And they keep saying it's a vitamin, like up until kind of the end of litril as a medicine, but that becomes less and less meaningful, the justification for how it works

because the state starts arresting doctors in the early 70s.

They're arresting people, they're charging them, and this massively increases the sense of victimhood that creates this self-reinforcing subculture that is now not into litrial because it's a cure entirely, but because they're ethically and ideologically invested in it, right?

The political ideology they've built, this has to work.

So you don't have to convince any state or medical organization to back the drug now.

People are no no longer waiting for evidence.

They are ideologically convinced that this stuff is necessary and that the government is evil, right?

And so they will go to war on behalf of the people selling this poison.

Now, that's the third era of Littrill, and a major catalyst for the birth of this era is Dr.

John A.

Richardson, a right-wing crank and medical doctor who was arrested in 1972 in Albany, California for violating the state anti-quackery law.

For reasons beyond me, authorities film the arrest, arrest and it looks bad because it just looks like armed thugs taking a doctor into custody at gunpoint, which is like what it is, but he's a bad doctor.

It's like bad PR.

It's like, no, that's not, that's just going to make him look like a victim, you dipshits.

Yeah.

Why'd you point the gun at his head?

Richardson, because they're cops.

Richardson was convicted of gross negligence and incompetence, and he was in fact guilty.

But

he looks like Jesus to the kind of patient advocates who just got in the hang of organizing.

Now, here's where things really get dark, because I said he was a right-wing crank.

I wasn't just insulting him.

This is critical to the story, because Dr.

Richardson is a member of a political organization that we have covered on this show, the John Birch Society.

And the John Birch Society gets in board at this point.

Fuck me.

That's wild.

They are crucial to the third stage of Latrille.

Now, I want to quote now from an article called Latrille Lesson in Cancer Quackery for the Cancer Journal for Clinicians.

Quote: The phenomenon was largely confined to the West Coast and Mexico until the 1972 full-scale entry into the controversy of John Birch members in support of Birch activist Dr.

John Richardson.

Using the arguments and sophisticated political machinery of the far right, and aided by the manpower of a large group of Americans caught up in a new religion of extreme food fadism, the promotion rapidly swept across the country.

And yeah,

it's bleak.

I'm going to, like, this sounds very similar to what's going on now because this is where it starts, right?

Yeah, exactly.

While Dr.

Richardson gets the ball rolling on bringing in the far-right, the actual hard work of tying this to conservatism, to this like fascist right-wing cause, was done by a more influential Bircher, a man named Robert W.

Bradford from Los Altos, California.

He and a handful of far-right activists founded a new organization to push Latrille and defend Dr.

Richardson.

Per Dr.

Williams' article, Bradford was a nuclear technician on the Stanford University staff working on building a linear accelerator for research in subatomic physics.

Poised, articulate, skilled at the organization, Bradford, aided by equally dedicated associates, quickly made a success of the new Committee for Freedom of Choice in Cancer Therapy.

In 1975, he gave up his Stanford job to devote full time to the committee and to Latrille.

Ties with the nation's already existing conservative networks surely helped immensely in the speed with which the committee established local branches.

By 1977, Bradford claimed 500 chapters with some 35,000 members.

And of course, it's an engineer.

Great engineers are some of the easiest, like they're overrepresented as like terrorists, members of extremist groups, because

you get very good at something very hard, and you also convince yourself that everything works the way that does, right?

And like, yeah.

And then, yeah, then that makes you even more susceptible to like some kind of cult type thing where you're like, well, I know fucking better than everybody else.

And he's also just genuinely a skilled organizer, right?

Going in the space of a few years to 500 chapters of 35,000 members, that's no mean feat.

That's someone who is very intelligent at what they're doing, right?

Alas.

And there you have it, folks.

That is where this all began, baby.

We are now staring at the very start of the road that led us to RFK Jr.

killing the concept of medical research in the United States, right?

Obviously, there were some precursors we can talk about early, and we have on the show, the early anti-vax movement.

But in terms of this is where

there's a direct line between this political movement and the one and Trumpism, right?

A very direct line of dissent that, you know, is more broken up the further back you go.

And here is where it's just a straight, thick line, right?

This is the start of it.

You know, this is the inciting incident that led in 2020 to people marching around with guns, threatening doctors and nurses for begging them to take safety precautions during a plague, right?

Yeah.

We're at ground zero here.

Yeah.

And you know what I love about ground zero?

The view?

The view.

Oh my God, the great, perfect view of Ground Zero, you know?

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And we're...

We're somewhere.

Who knows where we are?

We back?

We're back.

That's for sure.

Not that we ever left.

Thanks for confirming.

We didn't.

I just told you another story that would have blown the audience's minds.

Yeah, we can't do that.

You're not going to hear it.

You're never going to hear it.

You know, this, I mean, I'll give you guys a little hint.

It was a cure for cancer.

It was a cure for cancer.

His mind is fucking blown.

And look, if you Venmo me, let's say a couple of million dollars.

You know, I'm just working in the lab.

And I don't want that couple of million dollars for myself.

Like Miles and I put a lot of money into our lab.

You know, we're just trying to

get even here.

We got to be whole, you know?

Can we be whole?

Yeah.

I got to get back to zero or this, there's no, this deal isn't good for me.

Yeah.

So the John Birch Society's entrance to the Latroll movement does a couple of things.

First off, it makes medical freedom a core conservative voting issue and it connects that issue and the people advocating it to the Republican political establishment, who are going to be hugely helpful in pushing for exceptions over things like supplements in the years to come.

This is where you get all these laws about like, oh, no, you can't sell this as a cure, but you can say, maybe it helps with this disease.

If you're not saying it's a cure and it's a supplement, then we can't regulate it, right?

All of Joe Rogan's business, you know, Alex Jones, this is the groundwork for why all of that is the case, right?

Because it becomes a thing where like, well, if you're in an extremely conservative area and you really want to like throw some bones to the far right, just loosen the laws around what kind of shit they can put in their body and call it a cure.

Fuck it, you know?

Yeah.

Now, the other thing the John Birch Society does here is they bring in expertise in what far-right conspiracists are best at, which is making people homicidally angry.

While the Krubbs strategy had been to convince patients and doctors this stuff works and kind of brute force exceptions for human experiments to do a runaround on the drug approval process while seeming to follow it, in this new Bircher era, the focus was much more on making people angry.

Just blame the federal government for poisoning them and hiding real medicine, and then you don't have to do anything else, right?

The movement around Latrille evolved from a few patients and their families to a crusade of activists fighting medical 1984, right?

Like we're literally, this is Big Brother that we're fighting by taking cyanide pills.

Now, increasingly, these people started finding other people who'd been diagnosed with various cancers and proactively being like, wait, you're about to go in for chemo.

No, no, no, no, no.

Take litril.

Take litril.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Yeah.

You know, this is like chemo.

No, it's a vitamin.

Well, it's a sub.

Dude, just take it.

It's a chemo vitamin supplement, you know?

Yeah.

Money flows to guys like Bradford, who, again, is increasingly becoming like our reverse coyote for families trying to smuggle themselves into Mexico or smuggle litril out.

In 1977, he was finally tried alongside Dr.

Richardson and convicted of conspiracy.

Now, something else happened in 1977.

On June 8th of that year, an 11-year-old girl named Elizabeth Hanken of Attica, New York, got into her father's medicine cabinet.

Now, her dad had been diagnosed with cancer and he'd been convinced to take litril.

I don't know if he was also taking real medicine or if this was the only thing he was doing, but he's got litril in the house.

And Elizabeth, being an 11-month-old, eats five tablets, which is about two and a half grams of his medication.

And most people who take litril orally just pass it.

Some people's bodies, for whatever reason, have more of that enzyme that turns it into cyanide.

And I don't know why, but Elizabeth is one of them.

She goes into a coma and she dies three days later due to cyanide poisoning caused by the ingestion of amygdalin, per her coroner's report.

Her father dies the next year because this is not a treatment for anything.

Not the first kid to die from this stuff, not the last, but one of the most well-documented ones, right?

And part of it, I said that, like, maybe she just had more of this enzyme.

It also, maybe the latril, different people are making latril, and it's not at all consistent.

Like, when the FDA is trying to test this, they keep finding different formulations.

So maybe it was just latril that was inherently more dangerous, right?

We don't really know.

Earlier that same year, a 17-year-old girl in Los Angeles drank three ampoules of litril, about 10.5 grams, and within 10 minutes entered a coma due to cyanide poisoning.

She died a day later.

Now, again, these happen a month away from each other.

These and stories like them start percolating out to the medical press.

The regular press, however, is still often more interested in reading testimonies of people who'd been miraculously cured.

I found a Time article that was written around this period.

It was just titled, Debate Over Latrille.

And here's how, again, great journalism.

Here's how this opens.

In a motel room in Imperial Beach, California, the thin man from Arizona puffed nervously on a cigarette as he told his story.

Suffering from cancer of the lung, he was told last fall that he had only months to live.

Two weeks ago, he came to Imperial Beach, and since then, he has regularly driven across the border to Tijuana, Mexico, and visited a clinic where he receives a shot of Latril, a controversial drug that has been outlawed in the U.S.

since 1963.

Already, he claims to be better.

Says he, I feel now like I'm not going to die.

Oh, God.

I love that.

He's still smoking.

He's got lung cancer.

He's smoking like, no, I feel good now.

I'm definitely living.

I love the Latril.

Just that trill, man.

We all love that trill, baby.

We could have made a Deep Space Nine reference there, but I'm not going to do that.

No, no, I'm not giving you people that.

You don't deserve it.

So this audience summarized some of the dangers and a small part of the case against Latrille, but it basically came away arguing, hey, why doesn't the government just do human studies and put these claims to rest?

You know, why don't they just end the debate, right?

And like, again, it's just like a journalist sticking his mouth where he shouldn't.

Like, or you should, but you should talk to a scientist because a doctor would have told you, well, we can't test this on people ethically because it's cyanide

because it kills them

so what are you saying like we can't just do a test of the cyanide pill

oh all right let me break this down very simply for you journalist man okay go ahead i'm listening You can't just poison people to death to see if that kills them anymore.

How do we know?

Yeah, maybe maybe it works.

We never know.

That's the thing.

That's what you guys are just hating.

You might think that a total lack of evidence that your cancer cure helps people and a preponderance of evidence that it kills children in particular would have convinced a man like Ernst Krebs Jr.

to back off.

But he had, by the late 70s, adapted to the new tactic of crying oppression and just pretending that the people who were dying weren't dying.

He portrayed himself as a victim set upon by a sinister big brother-style regime.

And I want to quote, I'm going to read you a quote.

This is like him delivering a speech.

He would give variations of this often when he would give his public appearances.

After presenting a rather effective lecture on cancer, the windshield was shot out of my car on the road back to San Francisco.

The next night, the glass window in the tailgate was shot out, 300 miles removed from the first shooting.

The police said, maybe someone is trying to tell you something.

The late Arthur Harris, MD, was threatened by two men with assassination if he continued to use Latrille.

Since that time, we have decentralized the work so that if any two of us are shot out of the saddle, it will only have a slight negative effect on the program.

Oh my god.

We're arguing that like, yeah, we're doing what they do with like the fucking Pepsi

KFC ingredient.

You always have to for the president and the vice president.

We need a lone survivor protocol.

Yeah, for this Latrilla bullshit.

Fucking Jesus Christ.

Now, the bleakest thing about this story is how well his tactics worked.

The same year those kids died, 1977, a federal district court judge in, of course, Oklahoma, ruled that Latrille was exempt from the Food and Drug Act because of a grandfather clause, which stated that terminal cancer patients had a right to privacy for their personal supplies of an experimental drug.

This right was affirmed by the U.S.

Court of Appeals for the 10th Circuit, who ruled that the Food and Drug Act didn't apply to terminal patients, period.

And it's like, there is a degree to which, like, well, if this had stayed the law, maybe at least medical marijuana would have been less of a fight or something, but this does not continue.

along these lines and probably unbalanced good given you know what's happening right now what's happening with lattrill but the chain of court victories is halted and reversed ultimately by the U.S.

Supreme Court, who were like, nah, bro, dying of cancer doesn't mean you don't deserve consumer protection, right?

And that's what the concern over Latrille is.

It doesn't work and it kills people.

And you don't have a right to poison people just because they're cancer serious.

By 1980, it was established that the FDA ban on Latrille did not infringe on any constitutional rights.

Now that the federal battle was over, in 1980 also, Krebs Jr.

briefly goes to actual prison for a little while.

Like he gets a brief sentence from his 73 conviction, so he does a little bit of time.

Now that the federal battle is over, Latrille advocates pivoted and embraced a strategy that would be modified not long after by the medical marijuana movement.

I didn't bring that up for nothing.

Per that article in the Cancer Journal for Clinicians, supporters developed an end-run approach by promoting legalizing statutes within the states, utilizing the lobbying machinery of the right-wing political apparatus and frequently being opposed only by a poorly organized and ill-informed medical establishment, this movement scored a number of quick and impressive victories.

State legislators appeared singularly unimpressed by testimonies about scientific data and responsible drug testing procedures, and decisively moved by the highly emotional testimonials and packed galleries of the Latrille faithful.

After Alaska's lead in the 1976-77 session, 13 additional states voted to legalize Latrille in 1977 and 78, and seven more followed a year later.

The practical impact of these acts was minor because the drug was already widely available.

The emotional impact, however, was considerable.

Statewide legislation of Latrille, regardless of restrictions about the use or manufacture, implied that the drug did have some value and clearly tended to establish a precedent circumventing the standards of the Food and Drug Act as they painstakingly evolved over 75 years.

Jesus.

So basically, you have this Food and Drug Act.

It gets stronger and stronger for a while.

It really makes some massive changes, saves a ton of lives.

And then the right wing, when they lose in court against it at the federal level, figures out, well, let's just cut the ground out from underneath it.

If we can convince all these state legislators who are only concerned about getting re-election, well, we were able to fill the gallery with all of these sick people and their families.

And all the other side has is some doctors saying this is bad.

Then you'll legalize it locally.

And eventually people at higher levels, legislators, will realize like, oh shit, opposing this is dangerous.

And that's how we do an in-run around the actual doctors and the responsible judges, right?

Like, fuck them.

We have a better way, you know?

Yeah, we just show up in numbers and that'll, it's like the letter writing.

You you know what I mean?

It's like they'll just see a mass of people, and that's what we need.

And the John Birch Society has been doing stuff like this for a while, but it's the same shit you see with a lot of like book banning stuff, right, today.

Like,

this is like a lot of this being worked out, right?

Specifically in the medical sphere.

Um, and this is what's brought us to our present position of doom, probably more than any other single chain of events.

The good news I have is that local cases did not always go the way of the littrel advocates, but this was cut by the reality that even when sanity won in court, people kept dying, And one of those people was a five-year-old named Chad Green.

Per an article in Boston Local, Chad developed acute cystic leukemia at age two and began chemotherapy treatment at the University of Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha, where the family originally lived.

Chad's condition was improving, and his leukemia was in remission.

But when doctors recommended radiation, the Greens decided to move to Massachusetts, where Chad was placed in the care of Dr.

John Truman, a pediatric cancer specialist at Massachusetts General Hospital.

So, so far, so good.

You know, they move, but to a real hospital.

But by this point, by the time they get to Massachusetts, the greens have been reached by the Latril advocates who are telling them, like, isn't that chemo hard on your kid?

He didn't like it, right?

You want to spare him some suffering.

This is also a cure for cancer, but there's no side effects, right?

So they start giving their kid Latril.

And Dr.

Truman is like, okay, guys, you ready to continue your chemo?

And they're like, no, we're actually not doing that.

We got our own thing going on.

Oh, yeah, what are you doing?

What?

So he goes to the courts, this doctor, and he gets, he basically is like, I think the parents need to be stopped.

And the state of Massachusetts agrees.

They order Chad to be made a ward of the court and they send an order to his parents that you have to take him to the hospital to start chemo now.

Now, the Greens are like, okay, well, can we do that?

And keep giving him latril.

But part of what had tipped off this doctor is that he had early symptoms of cyanide poisoning.

And so the doctor's like, no, they're just giving him cyanide.

Don't let them keep doing that.

And so the judge is like, no, you can't continue to poison this child.

So the Greens are like, the fuck, we can't.

And they flee to Mexico

where they start staying at Dr.

Ernesto Contreras' clinic.

Now, legal threats continue to flow from across the border, but per time, quote, they were getting financial support from the National Health Federation.

That's that group founded by Bradford, this like...

group, which also, by the way, was starting to oppose the fluoridation of water.

And from private citizens who contend that the state has no business telling parents how to care for their children.

With these contributions, the Greens hope to get by while they are in Mexico.

There is such a loving atmosphere here at the clinic, says Gerald Green.

The doctor, after giving us the test results, tells us, we'll be praying with you.

You just don't find that in the States.

And that says so much about the psychology here: like, I don't care as much if my kid lives as well as whether or not the doctor prayed with us.

You know, that makes me feel better about it than some doctor who was saving his life actively.

Yeah.

He didn't pray with us.

Just now.

He was just too clinical.

Yeah, too clinical in a clinic.

Can you believe it?

Unbelievable.

Several months after this, Chad dies, possibly from leukemia, which was untreated now, but also some of the evidence suggests that he dies of cyanide poisoning, which, given the cyanide, not a huge stretch.

For his part, when Dr.

Contreras is like, hey, so this kid died, is this maybe evidence that you fucked up?

Corneris is like, no, no, no.

Chad's death is proof that Latrill works.

It didn't save him, but he died a really pleasant.

You guys didn't see it, but he died like a really good death.

Like it was super chill thanks to Latrille.

You know, he would have died a much worse death if it weren't for Latrille.

Search YouTube right now, uh, those chill death compilations.

Yeah, I got like a bunch of them over here.

I take a video every time.

No, and even his family didn't agree with this because, like, all they would tell the news is that at the end, he was so sad to be away from his like grandparents and his friends and his home.

Like, he was just lonely in a foreign country.

Not only did he die unnecessarily, but he died unnecessarily lonely in a strange foreign country.

Oh, my God.

It's fucking bleak.

And there's a lot of other horror stories of Latrille, Miles.

Many of them hinge around this growing idea, embraced by right-wing activists, that parents should be the only ones with the power to decide what happens to their kids, right?

This is the root of all of the whole fascist movement in this country, honestly, as far as I'm concerned, is the core current, like at least cornerstone of it is the idea that like, as a parent, you own your child and anything you say is right.

Right.

In Chad's case, the courts ruled consistently that parental rights did not extend to denying a child life-saving treatment, but the other courts made different decisions.

Per Quackwatch, Joseph Hofbauer was a nine-year-old with Hodgkin's disease.

Unlike Chad Green's parents, Joseph's parents never allowed him to receive appropriate treatment, but insisted that he receive litril and metabolic therapy.

When New York state authorities attempted to place him in protective custody, his parents filed suit and convinced family court judge Lauren Brown to let the parents make the treatment decision.

Brown stated, This court also finds that metabolic therapy has a place in our society, and hopefully its proponents are on the first rung of a ladder that will rid us of all forms of cancer.

It's just another quack treatment.

The parents rejected standard treatment and Joseph died of his disease two years later.

Acute lymphocytic leukemia and Hodgkin's disease both have 95% five-year survival rates with appropriate chemotherapy.

These are not kids who are going to die anyway.

These are kids who had very good odds until Latrille came into the picture.

Now, perhaps the most famous Latrille death, which comes in 1980, is Steve McQueen, one of the great movie stars of his day.

He'd been diagnosed with mesothelioma in 1979.

And like all these other people, he traveled to Mexico to take Latrille.

Now, his doctor was not Contreras.

It was William Kelly, who was a dentist who'd had his license revoked in Texas.

Perfect.

Perfect transition.

Man,

being a dentist in Texas.

Guess I'll cure cancer in Mexico.

Yeah, I don't do mouth stuff anymore, but I moved to Mexico now and I'm an oncologist.

Yeah, I'm the best doctor Steve McQueen can apparently afford.

Like most latril patients, McQueen praised the efficacy of his treatment as a lifesaver and then died several months later in 1980.

Um, yeah.

And eventually, latril fever faded, in part because its most zealous advocates died off.

Despite the fact that more than 70,000 Americans had tried it, only 93 case studies were ever submitted to the government to be evaluated.

26 of these weren't documented well enough to be useful.

The remaining cases were ultimately sent to an expert panel after being blinded and compared to 68 random chemotherapy patients.

And the panel showed that there were two cases of litril-treated cases where people went into full remission and four where people went into partial remission.

And in the remaining 62 cases, nothing at all happened.

And also, even the fact that there's like, well, there's six people who seem to see some benefit, but there was actually no attempt to verify that any of these patients existed.

So this is just like a list that someone gave them saying these were people.

So they couldn't even, these six people who apparently got got better, we couldn't verify as real people, right?

The reviewers concluded that they could make, quote, no definite conclusions supporting the anti-cancer activity of Latril.

Cool.

Yeah.

And there's more studies after this.

There's another one where like 220 physicians submit data on like a thousand patients

and there's no evidence of that any of them benefited from taking Latril.

There's, you know, a couple of different studies, all of which show the same thing, right?

Which is that no one has been cured or stabilized by Latril.

The median survival rate is less than five months after the start of therapy.

For the people who lived longer than that, their tumors had gotten larger.

Basically, it did the same thing at best as no treatment.

And a number of patients experienced side effects of cyanide toxicity.

So yeah.

Eventually, there's a bunch of these stories and demand falls.

You know, there's a lot of lawsuits against the companies making it, against Bradford.

Most of these are thrown out of court, but it does damage to the brand.

And today, Latril is still, you can find Mexican cancer clinics are still selling Latril as vitamin B17.

It's not completely gone, but it's like, you know, it's not top dog in the fake cancer cures anymore.

And that's the story, Miles.

Oh, well.

My brother said a patient asked him about B17 recently.

Oh, good.

Great.

My brother, an oncologist.

Just doing, wait, doing your own research research is how you get there.

Yeah, apparently.

He said he gets asked about ivermectin like every day as like a cure for cancer.

So

that sounds very frustrating.

It's freedom of choice, man.

Freedom of choice, freedom of poisons.

Freedom of poisons.

Freedom to be God

to your children.

And that's, yeah, great.

Well, I feel better.

You know, I was just saying how much of a bummer I was going through some shit, man.

But now with the best.

Everything's fixed.

I feel happy.

Bibity bobbity bastards bippity bobpity bastards well

hey you know what miles why don't you tell people something that'll cure their cancer well i don't have a cure for cancer but i do have a pill it's a two-for-one it uh cures male pattern baldness and impotence it's called bone hair um and it's just uh once a day you take it and

I mean, some people, it works.

I'm pretty, I think it works.

I think it works.

You know, the coroner's office is doing some lab work and they're going to get back to me on some, a couple of people who I think they were, I think they went OD with it or OD'd on it.

I don't know.

Anyway, forget that.

If you like podcasts, you can also listen to me on the daily Zeitgeist or 420 Day Fiancé.

Find me there.

Yeah.

Find Miles there and find my exciting new cancer treatment,

which is just do nothing and send me tens of thousands of dollars, you know, and through the power of my own positive thinking, I'll fix your shit.

Wow.

All right.

Yeah, I got it, baby.

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