Part One: How Eliza Fraser Survived a Shipwreck and Sparked a Genocide

Speaker 1 Coolzo Media.

Speaker 1 It's Behind the Bastards, a podcast that I have increasingly gotten bad at opening.

Speaker 1 But sometimes you just get worse at it because

Speaker 1 how do you keep opening the podcast? You know, I've already done the What's Crack in My Peppers.

Speaker 1 We've already reached the highest highs that a man can reach, not just in podcasting but in life in general so there's there's nowhere to go but you want to try gibberish want to try hello and welcome to behind the bastards i'm no sophie i don't think that way

Speaker 1 i i i don't think any podcast is ever open that way is that is that why we don't get awards i prefer ha ba daba baba dabba da yeah that was pretty good that was like adam sandler status yeah there you go and he got to be in uncut gems you know maybe i'll get to be in uncut gems i could be i could have a gambling problem, Sophie.

Speaker 1 I believe in me. I do believe that you could have a gambling problem, but we don't let you touch the money.
No.

Speaker 1 Oh, man. I can put it all on black, Sophie.
21 black. I think that's a roulette term.
Anyway, speaking of roulette,

Speaker 1 every time we pick a new guest, it's roulette, except today, because today we have Jack O'Brien back on the pod. Jack the Guarantee.
Swiss. Jack the pro Brian.
Ring a din.

Speaker 1 That's called a jackpot. I thought you were saying.
And that is my catchphrase now. That was nice.
I thought you were saying it. Back from the dead.
Back from the dead. You all forgot about him.

Speaker 1 Yeah, of all the popular casino names that you could have associated with my name, Roulette is definitely the closest.

Speaker 1 Especially after you had just said 21.

Speaker 1 There's a game called Blackjack. I know they don't let you gamble, but.
Yeah, he's not allowed to touch the money. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You got Blackjack. It's a jackpot.
My name really slots in nicely with a lot of casino lingo. Why have you not made a crypto coin? Oh, because it's evil.
Oh, right. Right.

Speaker 1 I will tell you, that is not why. It's pure laziness and just not willing to learn all the bullshit that goes along with it.
I do feel like your co-host, Miles Gray, could really sell a meme coin.

Speaker 1 Oh, hell yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Zeitcoin? Come on. Oh, there it is.
It's there. You did it.

Speaker 1 We did try and soft-launch Zeitcoin, and everybody thought it was a joke. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I tried to launch Bastard Coin.

Speaker 1 It just wound up making the president a lot of money.

Speaker 1 Basically, what we all do every day. Yeah, well, that is kind of the point of everyone else in the country now.

Speaker 1 Speaking of making a lot of money doing evil things,

Speaker 1 Australia. That's the subject this week.
It's an Australian bastard. Our Aussie listeners have been begging for years.

Speaker 1 Why don't you ever talk about Australians? So many of us are terrible.

Speaker 1 It's always been my understanding that Australia is sort of like Texas the country in a lot of ways, but just with

Speaker 1 fucking desert racing replacing guns. And kangaroos.

Speaker 1 And kangaroos replacing whatever. Armadillos? I don't know.
I don't know. I don't think anything replaces kangaroos.

Speaker 1 Anyway, we're talking about a lady named Eliza Frazier this week. That's our bastard.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 so Eliza is a lady who gets shipwrecked and then tells a bunch of lies about how the Aboriginal people on the island that she is shipwrecked on treat her.

Speaker 1 And those lies wind up cascading and playing a role in a lot of genocidal bullshit.

Speaker 1 So she's the bastard this week. And also the colonial state of Australia is a bastard.

Speaker 1 But it's a fascinating story about a place that I knew nothing about before I started reading about this. So we're going to have a good time, Jack.
You ready to hear about some genocide?

Speaker 1 Via the West, mate. No, that was not good.
That was not good. By the end, I will get one good syllable of an Australian accent.
Well, it's okay because Eliza comes from this era. She's British, right?

Speaker 1 Like

Speaker 1 she's a major figure in Australian history, but like the Aussies hadn't really figured out that accent yet, right? They were still just British people on a different place, right?

Speaker 1 They're not workshop Scottish people.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I like the idea that they were just like intentionally in a room somewhere. That is kind of what happened with the received pronunciation, right? The British accent?

Speaker 1 Like, yeah, a bunch of rich guys sat around in a room. Yeah, in Shakespearean time, the British accent sounded like the Baltimore accent.
Like it was just kind of like

Speaker 1 and everyone sounded like a character in the wire.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and then you do that again. Please do.
Yinz and Dergen.

Speaker 1 That's correct. Yeah, that sounds about right.
Yo, Yin's going down to see Shakespeare at the globe.

Speaker 1 That's exactly how Shakespeare sounded. Yes.
That's how much of you're right. To be or not to be.
Yes. Thankfully, Denzel's version of Macbeth really, really delivered on that.

Speaker 1 But then they were like, we should sound fancy. And that's where we got our received pronunciation.
I don't think this is like exactly what happened.

Speaker 1 I don't think they had like a meeting where they were like, should we fancy it up? But they were just like, It kind of sounds cool when we talk like this.

Speaker 1 And uh, Jack, yeah, I've missed you, buddy. My accent works so good.

Speaker 1 You've missed me and my accent work.

Speaker 1 That's also part of the thing is, like, we could be shitty to everyone who doesn't talk right because they didn't go to Eaton or wherever, which is why you have like received British pronunciation.

Speaker 1 If you know British people, they can always tell you, oh, yeah, that guy's rich just by like hearing him. I know, very posh, isn't he? Whereas in America, everyone just sounds like a Californian now.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's right. We did it, Joe.
All up speak. Oh.

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Speaker 7 Hey guys, it's Aaron Andrews from Calm Down with Erin and Carissa. So as a sideline reporter, game day is extra busy for me, but I know it can be busy for parents everywhere.

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Speaker 1 Let's talk about Eliza Frazier and this series of genocides. It's great stuff.

Speaker 1 Now, this is also kind of a story about

Speaker 1 how conflicting versions of events can sort of spread through popular media.

Speaker 1 Because one of the things that happens here is this lady gets rescued from being shipwrecked and starts telling a story that she changes several times.

Speaker 1 And a whole industry arises around telling that story because there's just a lot of money in lying about this because it gets white people titillated.

Speaker 1 And so there's just a whole, like literally like a, like, it's almost like its own cinematic universe of lying about this lady being shipwrecked that starts out in the mid-1800s. It's very fun.

Speaker 1 But every version of events starts the same way, which is that Eliza Frazier sets sail on a boat called the Sterling Castle in 1836.

Speaker 1 Her husband is the captain, and according to most versions of the story, although not all of them, she is Pragers.

Speaker 1 uh which i don't think i've ever said on the show i hated it i really did

Speaker 1 not be really looking i'm getting mixed reactions the goosebumps that i have on my arms right now are uh because it felt so good and natural yeah i think yeah yeah yeah pregers so pregers McGregor's.

Speaker 1 Prager's McGregor's. Oh, if only her last name had been McGregor.
That would really have worked. I'm sure one of the people on the ship was named McGregor.
There's God.

Speaker 1 Anytime there's a British ship at sea, there's a McGregor somewhere on that motherfucker.

Speaker 1 So in May of 1836,

Speaker 1 several months after setting sail, the Sterling Castle runs aground not all that far from an island that

Speaker 1 at that point, Europeans called it the Great Sandy Island. It's going to be called Frasier Island.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 yeah,

Speaker 1 right. And they name it after this lady who lies about it.

Speaker 1 It is to this day the world's largest sand island. So it's a pretty sizable island.
It's about 186 miles north of Brisbane.

Speaker 1 And today it's called Gari.

Speaker 1 It is spelled K apostrophe G-A-R-I.

Speaker 1 And if you go to like Wikipedia, it'll say it's pronounced Guri or Guri,

Speaker 1 like G-U-R-R-I-E. But I pulled up a video of like people who come from like the tribes that are indigenous to the island saying it, and they say it more like Gari.

Speaker 1 So that's how I'm going to try to say it because I'm pretty sure they're righter than Wikipedia.

Speaker 1 It's also possible that maybe there's some like dialect differences and

Speaker 1 people, yeah. Anyway, I'm going to try to call it Gari because that's what it sounded like in the video that I saw.

Speaker 1 Is Sandy Island? Like just what we're doing is All sand is all sandy. Is that uncommon? I guess is my question.

Speaker 1 Like, I've been to islands that have sand on them, but like I did not realize that they were

Speaker 1 it's common, but not for them to be this big, right? Like, there's a bunch of sandy islands, but the great sandy island is the biggest.

Speaker 1 One thing you got to give the first name Europeans give it is that it's at least accurate. Where they're like, wow, this is a fucking huge sandy island.
This son of a bitch is big.

Speaker 1 Jack imagine an island, but like more sand. Yeah.
Well, like even sandier.

Speaker 1 even an even sandier island the sand you could call it the sandiest island uh the sandiest of islands anakin skywalker would hate this island uh

Speaker 1 as a colonizer that i guess makes sense

Speaker 1 um

Speaker 1 so back people have been living on gari for a very very long time uh and at least some of what i've read although i always take like european anthropology about aboriginal people a lot of which is written in like the 60s and 70s with a grain of salt here.

Speaker 1 But a lot of that kind of stuff that I've read said that in antiquity, at least, the people who lived on this island did not conceive of a world outside of this island and this little chunk of the mainland that they kind of moved between because they were like a lot of the peoples who lived on Gari lived on Gari like part-time and then would be on the mainland near the coast part-time, would kind of move between the two, right?

Speaker 1 Based on like the what kind of food was available in what season. Not uncommon around the world.

Speaker 1 Most peoples who were like quote-unquote hunter-gatherers or whatnot were more like semi-nomadic right where they would have places that they would like settle down and places where they kind of would grow food but they would also move around based on you know what the climate's doing and what kind of you know food is available different chunks of the year anyway um i should start with some deep history of this island which is again very imperfect, but it's better than not doing it at all.

Speaker 1 The peoples who lived on this island tended to pass on knowledge orally through song.

Speaker 1 So we don't have a complete understanding of their history because not all of the people who knew all of the songs survived to pass them down, right? Because there's a genocide, right?

Speaker 1 But we do have quite a lot of information from these people. And that's called foreshadowing, by the way.
Like a sizable amount of their records.

Speaker 1 Like we have their records of their very first European

Speaker 1 contact, which has been

Speaker 1 passed down for 100, like several hundred years through songs.

Speaker 1 Human beings have lived on what is today Gari for more than 50,000 years. There's no real way to get much more precise than that.

Speaker 1 And human civilization on the island, in fact, predates it being an island, because until about 6,000 years ago, it was still directly connected to the Australian mainland.

Speaker 1 Rising sea levels put an end to that, and the fertile climate and bounty of aquatic protein enabled it to support a meaningful permanent population of like several thousand people.

Speaker 1 Most casual histories of Gari tend to emphasize the isolation that the people there had from other groups of people. This does not seem to be entirely accurate.

Speaker 1 By the time Europeans arrived there, there were three broad tribal groups on the island.

Speaker 1 One of them, the Bachola, which is usually spelled B-U-T-C-H-A-L-L-A, but there's like three different spellings that are all correct because it's like an anglicization, right?

Speaker 1 So the Bachola lived on the mainland across from the Great Sandy Strait and in the central part of the island, right? So they would kind of go between

Speaker 1 the mainland and the island. And then there's the Dulungbara, who occupied much of the south, and the

Speaker 1 Ngolungbara in the north. And I was not able to find pronunciations for those latter two, so I'm doing my best on those.
I'm pretty sure I've got Bachola right.

Speaker 1 To some extent, Gari, like occupation of Gari varied with the season. Mullet fishing was the major source of food.

Speaker 1 And during the height of the harvest, there might be as many as 3,000 people on the island, right?

Speaker 1 And then it's kind of like a snowbird situation where like your full-timers are a smaller chunk of the population. I don't think they had RVs, but otherwise, that's more or less.

Speaker 1 In many ways, Eastern, like East Coast retirees are living the most similar lives to

Speaker 1 Indigenous peoples of long ago.

Speaker 1 Right, right. Traveling to Florida.

Speaker 1 Yeah, going between the Jersey shore and Florida. I do.
I mean, there are some ways in which that's right, right?

Speaker 1 The idea that people would just live one place all the time is new. It is.
And it's also like not

Speaker 1 that book, The Dawn of Everything by David Graeber and David Wengro, like they talk about how one of the key freedoms that they used to have that we don't really have as much anymore and don't really value is just the ability to be like, well, this sucked and like leave town.

Speaker 1 Like that was always a thing that people were just able to do. And then like entire communities would just like move if things got shitty.
Yeah, it seems like it sucks sucks here. Let's go.

Speaker 1 This guy's calling himself king. Time to bounce.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, if only we could still do that. Buy an RV.
Become free, everyone. That's the message of this podcast.
Live on the road, you know?

Speaker 1 There's no downsides. Everyone I know who lives in an RV is happy.

Speaker 1 That's right. It always goes well.
It never goes badly. RVs are well made.
They don't break immediately.

Speaker 1 I can't tell you the amount of times Robert has suggested we get a podcast RV.

Speaker 1 I think we should get a fleet of RVs.

Speaker 1 That's a good idea.

Speaker 1 I could be a podcast Commodore. Thank you, Jack.
Yes. Just like a moving podcast studio.
You just need like a small podcast studio to justify it. And then everything else is just...

Speaker 1 Sorry, Sophie's so mad at me for entertaining this.

Speaker 1 Being like, oh, I love this idea. We can cook lizards over open fires like Mad Max.
I think it's a good idea. It's just a thing that I can't get my wife to agree to.

Speaker 1 And so I'm like, oh, you should expense it. I mean, people, a lot of people are really hesitant to let their children live in a roaming RV.

Speaker 1 They don't get to come. Okay, excellent.
No, then they're very good.

Speaker 1 So most of the sources I have found identify the islands, Gari's first contact with Europeans as coming with the arrival of the notorious Captain James Cook.

Speaker 1 That said, there's evidence of several centuries of irregular contact with Europeans prior to James Cook showing up.

Speaker 1 This would have begun with Portuguese sailors around 1500, and there's evidence of some trade or other exchange of materials in Spanish lead that was found on the island, also dating from around 1500.

Speaker 1 It's a little hard to say. There's also like clay pipes that were made by the Dutch that would have come from around the 1600s, but we don't really know.

Speaker 1 Does that mean that those people, like Europeans, were landing on the island and trading directly, or that people who lived on the island, who we know went back to the mainland periodically throughout the year, were trading with other different groups of Aboriginal peoples who were themselves trading with these other Europeans, right?

Speaker 1 We don't really know that.

Speaker 1 As one of my sources, an article by the Fraser Island Defenders Association notes, this could simply be, yeah, evidence of trade between Gary and people with other parts of Australia.

Speaker 1 Over the generations, some of the peoples of this island developed a spiritual cosmology and a set of rituals around death that would later get them slandered as cannibals.

Speaker 1 And this is, again, something that I found in sort of anthropological studies. I don't think this is something that is like known to AT.

Speaker 1 There's some debate on this, but there's some evidence that here, as well as in other places,

Speaker 1 when people's loved ones died, there was a degree of funerary cannibalism practiced, right?

Speaker 1 And another thing that was done, that we know that was done, was that like when people's loved ones died, they would be like skinned by their family members before being buried, leaving what was called the true skin behind, which is like, as best as I can tell, like the fascia underneath your skin, which is kind of a shade of white, right?

Speaker 1 It's this like white colored substance between your skin and muscles. And as a result, white skin became associated with the dead, right?

Speaker 1 So this is like part of a ritual for, you know, burying your loved ones.

Speaker 1 And this kind of like whiteness, and when they see white people later, they will be associated with the dead, right? And with death. Not entirely wrong.
Not entirely inaccurate.

Speaker 1 Kind of a helpful coincidence there.

Speaker 1 In some ways, yeah.

Speaker 1 As a paper from the Anthropological Museum of Queensland, edited by Dr.

Speaker 1 Peter Lauer, describes, after this ritual was finished, quote, certain sacred portions of the deceased had been ceremoniously consumed by relatives.

Speaker 1 Carefully executed funeral rites would ensure that the spirit, like a cold wind, left the body before it was interred.

Speaker 1 According to Aboriginal informant Geyerbau, the Bachala believed that on the following day the spirit returned.

Speaker 1 Then the relatives would accompany it to a certain rock at Bari-Iba, which bore the impress of the foot of Bayrel, their ancestral being, left behind when he had leapt out over the sea on his way to the sky, and from which place the spirits of their dead also followed him to the sky country.

Speaker 1 Two men specially posted, one at either side of the rock, would watch for the spirit's release.

Speaker 1 If they witnessed the spirits jumping off, they would light a fire to make smoke in order to prevent the spirit from coming back to frighten the people.

Speaker 1 They believed that everyone went to the same place and that, apart from their homeland and the lands of other tribes they knew, there was no other place.

Speaker 1 So, again, this is like

Speaker 1 some older anthropology, but

Speaker 1 it corresponds with a lot of other stuff in history, right? Now, and there's some controversy here because allegations of cannibalism, not just for the people of

Speaker 1 Gari, but for like all of the different Aboriginal peoples in Australia, will be used by Europeans as justifications for some pretty hideous acts of genocide, which has led to understandable pushback by modern-day descendants of these people to assert that like this is not an accurate characterization of their ancestors.

Speaker 1 And usually what the Europeans are accusing them of doing is like hunting and eating white people, right? Right. Like as like

Speaker 1 a predatory act.

Speaker 1 And this is like basically all of these accounts are lies. And we'll talk a little bit about how a lot of these lies come up.

Speaker 1 That said, funerary cannibalism was engaged in by many peoples of this area and all over the world. It is in fact nearly a universal human practice if you go back far enough anywhere on Earth.

Speaker 1 This is not the act of consuming people for food or even eating defeated enemies, both of which you can find different civilizations engage in throughout history.

Speaker 1 Funerary cannibalism is something very different.

Speaker 1 And you might best compare it to something that many people in the West, including some people that I know, do today, which is having their body composted and used as soil to grow things, right?

Speaker 1 There are services people use that for today.

Speaker 1 And there's something kind of powerful here, both in a refusal to totally let go of a dead loved one and a desire to keep a piece of them alive with you in some way.

Speaker 1 Funerary cannibalism was a common practice in England about 15,000 years ago, and evidence of similar practices has been found in Ireland, in Germany, in the UK, in Russia,

Speaker 1 Belgium, Portugal, basically everywhere, right? You can find evidence of this in almost every like human civilization on Earth if you go back far enough.

Speaker 1 And it kind of seems like a somewhat sophisticated idea, the idea of like you are turned into energy. Like, it's not necessarily like dust to dust, as the whites like to say.

Speaker 1 You actually could be turned into energy and, you know, you became a part of us that a plant grows out of that gets eaten. And, you know,

Speaker 1 I will say also as somebody who grew up in a strict Catholic household,

Speaker 1 there's

Speaker 1 a lot of sacramental cannibalism is

Speaker 1 not

Speaker 1 uncommon in the Western world.

Speaker 1 Like they, they lit for people who don't know catholicism like they believe that they're you know they're they're doing the sacrament up on the altar uh they ring a little bell and at that point the bread and wine literally turns into uh jesus's like body and blood yeah like that's what they think is happening um i've tasted it's not actually

Speaker 1 i don't want to spoil anything for anybody but um it's uh yeah yeah yeah

Speaker 1 So I don't know, like

Speaker 1 having fantasies of cannibalism that are supposed to be literal cannibalism at the center of your spiritual beliefs, but then everything's

Speaker 1 so weird.

Speaker 1 Yeah, right. The way they do it's bad, though.
Is it just like a small piece of like a love?

Speaker 1 That's what it sounds like based on the reading that I've done.

Speaker 1 And I mean, it varies from place to place, right? Again, this is something that we found evidence of in every continent, right?

Speaker 1 So like, you know, different groups of people probably had different attitudes as to like which parts and how you do it. But it's a thing that occurs basically everywhere, right?

Speaker 1 And so this real practice is going to be part of like what gets spun out into these lurid stories of like predatory cannibalistic behavior that are one of like the pretexts for the genocide that's going to come, right?

Speaker 1 Which is why talking about this at all, there's a lot of like aspects of this that are really problematic.

Speaker 1 And there's some other real practices that get misinterpreted and exaggerated. For one thing, infanticide, right? There were like during times of starvation.

Speaker 1 And again, this is not just something that Aboriginal people did in Australia. This is something all throughout human civilization.

Speaker 1 When everyone is starving to death, sometimes you kill a newborn baby because it's not going to be able to survive, right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like we are talking about people who are living with wildly different margins than we can conceive of.

Speaker 1 And the purpose here is not cruelty or some dark ritual, which is, again, what it often got spun out to, that they're doing this for some sort of magic purpose. This is survival, right?

Speaker 1 There's simply not enough food, right?

Speaker 1 Everyone who has ever lived has relatives, if you go far back enough, who had to make choices like this, because

Speaker 1 it's hard to live as a fucking, like, yeah,

Speaker 1 and almost like a mercy killing in some cases, right? Like,

Speaker 1 they're going to starve to death. I don't know if we're going to live.
This baby certainly can't, right?

Speaker 1 And so you, you know, and but what you have is you have these people who are calling themselves anthropologists, these Europeans traveling, you know, through the continent and who find evidence of this.

Speaker 1 And they're not really anthropologists. They're usually just like people with, who are kind of rich and so decide to do that as a hobby.
And they wind up having their own biases or their own bigotry.

Speaker 1 And they just kind of like weave this story into ongoing narratives about how dangerous these people are, right? Right.

Speaker 1 And so this thing that's like, well, yeah, sometimes people who are starving have to make hard choices gets turned into something else. Right.
Right.

Speaker 1 I found an article on Aboriginal cannibalism in Queensland on the University of Queensland's website written by E.G. Heap in 1967.

Speaker 1 So this would have been published at close to the peak of days of racist anthropology on this matter.

Speaker 1 And even in this article, the author repeatedly points out how incredibly thin the actual evidence is for many of the cannibalistic practices that were claimed to be universal.

Speaker 1 Quote, Thomas, who's one of the anthropologists in this period, recorded a case on the Gascoigne River in Western Australia where an Aboriginal girl was eaten and killed and eaten by a native who decoyed her away.

Speaker 1 She was very plump. The object of killing her was to acquire this desirable quality.

Speaker 1 Bleakle, who's another scientist, also referred to rare cases of the killing and eating of a young girl on a special ritual occasion, but his information is not documented.

Speaker 1 And that's the thing that you find over and over again. It's like, here's this lurid claim of someone being like eaten for this like ritual purpose.
There's no evidence that this happened, right?

Speaker 1 Like, we don't actually know why he said

Speaker 1 right yeah yeah we got to put this in some art some newspaper articles right right um

Speaker 1 yeah and it's the same thing with like the these claims about the killing and eating of white settlers by by these people right like where a lot of these claims there's simply like not any evidence of there's evidence of like sometimes like people will be killed and their bodies will be left out and animals will get to them and but people will be like oh well they must have been eaten after they were murdered right like stuff like that happens a lot lot too.

Speaker 1 I presume there are some cases of like people eating parts of defeated enemies and because that happens in various parts of the world. So maybe that's the case.

Speaker 1 But again, over and over again, reading this paper, it's just, here's this like lurid story and there's no evidence.

Speaker 1 Those animals are so fucked up. I can't believe they did that.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's like

Speaker 1 the explanation behind the Dialatov Pass, whatever that one is. Yeah, yeah, like right.
Like

Speaker 1 the monster must have eaten them. Their tongues were missing.
Yeah. Their eyes were missing.
It's like, yeah, those are the soft animals. There's like wolf animals eat when you're taking it.

Speaker 1 And they're hungry because it's snowy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And when I looked into this paper more, because like I found a bunch of cases where it's like, okay, here's a lurid story. And he says, and

Speaker 1 there's no evidence. So I decided to look more into some of the sources for this paper who were making claims about cannibalism.
And a major source in this paper is a woman named Daisy Mae Bates.

Speaker 1 Bates was an Irish woman and again, a self-taught anthropologist who expressed a mystic the best kind. And she's kind of wandering around in like the 1800s.

Speaker 1 Or sorry, in the late 1800s and early 1900s. And she's this mix of this kind of like paternalistic sympathy towards Aboriginal people, right? But also a lot of bigotry.

Speaker 1 And she becomes maybe the primary source during this period of claims about cannibalism.

Speaker 1 Sounds reliable. Sounds reliable.
It's one of those things, and this is often what's frustrating.

Speaker 1 You can't discard everything she says because she is one of the only sources of like ethnographic research we have on some of these groups of people from this period of time.

Speaker 1 But we also know that she lies a lot. And in fact, I found historian Bob Reese is like, she does good work in some things, quote, with the notable exception of cannibalism.

Speaker 1 Basically, you can't listen to anything she says when she brings up cannibalism, right?

Speaker 1 Like there's stuff she has to say about like languages and stuff that's useful, but the second she brings up cannibalism turn your brain off she's full of

Speaker 1 um which kind of makes me question the other stuff but i'm not an anthropologist like her uh

Speaker 1 so bates this this this lady this cannibalism obsessed lady is a monarchist and an anti-union activist as well so i'm i'm not primed to like her um she seems to have grown up obsessed

Speaker 1 like she's one of these people maybe i'll do another

Speaker 1 i might want to do an episode on her at some point she's got a long history of like lying about her background, like pretending to have come from a different place than she did and be a different person that she is.

Speaker 1 And she's got, like, she's obsessed with cannibalism kind of later in life. It becomes, one historian describes it as a fixation, which gets worse as she ages and she starts to suffer from dementia.

Speaker 1 So she's like continuing to work as an elderly woman, getting increasingly crazy and obsessed with cannibalism.

Speaker 1 She could literally be the president right now.

Speaker 1 monarchist, racist, like fucking making things up about her background. Like, was she a time traveler?

Speaker 1 No, no, she's just a very modern figure. She's been in the administration.
From dementia. Jesus.
He would have made her the fucking ambassador to Australia.

Speaker 1 Believes that she's qualified to do a job that she is in no way qualified to do.

Speaker 1 Honestly, iconic.

Speaker 1 Ahead of her time. I talked to you a little bit earlier about how some of these peoples during times of starvation would practice infanticide, right?

Speaker 1 Which is, again, a thing you see all over the world. Bates is the person who spins that into claiming that they're doing infant cannibalism, right? And she is the primary source in this period

Speaker 1 claiming that that is a thing that's happening. She writes...
dozens of articles in newspapers about this practice. And in 1920,

Speaker 1 claimed to have received the bones of a baby that had been cooked and eaten by its pregnant Aboriginal mother, right?

Speaker 1 The bones were, you want to guess what the bones came from?

Speaker 1 Ooh, dog, cat. Ah, you were close.
You were close, Jack. Yeah.
Fucking cat bones. She's lying about a cat bones being a cannibalized baby.

Speaker 1 Speaking of eating cats,

Speaker 1 don't do that. Listen to these ads.

Speaker 1 I thought the advertiser was.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

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Speaker 1 We're back, and our lawyers have sent

Speaker 1 me to the email. I am not allowed to accuse HelloFresh of serving cat meat.

Speaker 1 You know, until the court case finishes one way or the other, we can't prove that they ate cat meat.

Speaker 1 Certainly can't prove it. And, you know, are there allegations that they serve cat meat? Certainly are now, Robert.
Absolutely. Now there are, for sure.
Your cats, But we can't prove it.

Speaker 1 Your cats just sent me a text message and they're uncomfortable with this conversation. Yeah, well, they do look delicious.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. Leave Saddam and Saddam Hussein's best friend alone.
Well, they've gotten fat lately. You know, they have a good diet.
I'm just saying.

Speaker 1 Salary. I think they look great in your mean.

Speaker 1 That's right.

Speaker 1 I am. And when Sophie says they look great, she means they look like big cartoon ham legs.
Not what I said. That's what they look to me.

Speaker 1 I didn't have breakfast today, so I'm just looking at everything that way. Wow.

Speaker 1 So.

Speaker 1 By the way, it's three in the afternoon, everybody. Just so you know what kind of hours Robert keeps.

Speaker 1 The audience knows.

Speaker 1 They're aware by this point.

Speaker 1 For an example of the kind of shit Bates was writing in newspapers at this period of time, here's a direct quote from her. I use the word cannibal advisedly.
Every one of these natives was a cannibal.

Speaker 1 Cannibalism had its local name from Kimberley to Eucla and through all the unoccupied country east of it, and there were many grisly rites attached thereto.

Speaker 1 Human meat had always been their favorite food, and there were killing vendettas from time immemorial.

Speaker 1 In order that the killing should be safe, murderers' slippers or pads were made, emu feathers twisted and twined together, bound to the foot with human hair, on which the natives walk and run as easily as a white man in running shoes, their feet leaving no track.

Speaker 1 So what does that have to do with like she's just describing things that they have like tools that they have and being like yeah I'm sure they have like shoes that allow them to move quiet because that's useful when you're hunting or in war.

Speaker 1 But she's just like that must be because they are trying to eat people. And like, again, you can find like actual debate between you know,

Speaker 1 actual anthropologists about the different kinds of cannibalism that may or may not have been practiced here. No one agrees everyone was a cannibal.
It was not the norm. It was not wildly common.

Speaker 1 It was not, certainly not like a favorite.

Speaker 1 It was normal, right? Like Like

Speaker 1 whether it was practiced in some groups or not.

Speaker 1 Again, there's there's argument there, but it was like what she is saying is a complete lie that she's made up because she's gone crazy and is very racist. They like cannibalism so much.

Speaker 1 They like try and marry it. They want to marry cannibalism.
It's their best friend. She would have married cannibalism.
Yes. Yes.

Speaker 1 She's a cannibalism influencer. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Like what Joe Rogan is to fucking ayahuasca, this Bates lady is to cannibalism.
an allegation of cannibalism. It's so frustrating that he is the psychedelics person.

Speaker 1 I know. I know.
I've done way more fucking DMT than that. You're so much better at psychedelics than him.
You need to take it back.

Speaker 1 This is our psychedelics guy, not fucking Joe Rogan. Jesus Christ, did you see his special? Forget being the Joe Rogan of the left.
Robert's the psychedelics of the left. The psychedelics guy.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's you.

Speaker 1 I could take steroids. I believe in me.
Yeah. Did you see his stand-up special, or better yet, did you see the elephant graveyard

Speaker 1 analysis of his stand-up special? No.

Speaker 1 I will send that link to you.

Speaker 1 I assume it's a literal elephant graveyard you're talking about. I'm not going to look into that more.
I think that's the name of the channel, but they just go through.

Speaker 1 They're like, we're really excited about Joe Rogan's stand-up special. And then just like go joke for joke.
And they're like, oh, no.

Speaker 1 Oh, Joe,

Speaker 1 what is happening? Things have gone downhill since. What was he? He wasn't on the man show, was he?

Speaker 1 Fear Factor. He might have.
No, Fear Factor. It was Adam Carolla.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 He was on that show with Andy Dick.

Speaker 1 Frankly, too much time on Joe Rogan. Continue with the script, please.

Speaker 1 Anyway, speaking of Andy Dick, the Andy Dick of old-timey European colonizers was Captain James Cook, who was the first Englishman to enter the recorded history of the people of Gari.

Speaker 1 In 1770, he first sighted the island and reported spotting several people on the shore. He regarded them all as Indians, and he gave the island the name Indianhead.

Speaker 1 So this is its name after the great sandy island. So we go from, well, that's at least accurate to, okay, we're just being racist now.
Great.

Speaker 1 He and a colleague debated whether or not, because again, there's like notes taken on board the ship, and the notes are that James Cook is debating with like a colleague whether or not the skin color of these people meant they were a new race of humans.

Speaker 1 He was kind of tripped up by their hair, which he was surprised to see was, quote, very much like ours.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Made out of the same stuff. Yeah.
Yeah. Wow.
The same kind of hair as we. Same dang hair.

Speaker 1 Do you remember this article that we did at Cracked about like the great explorers and all the just insane lies that they told?

Speaker 1 Well, because you have to be out of your mind. And if you're not out of your mind when you start becoming an explorer, the months you spend dying at sea are going to make you lose your mind.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they would be like,

Speaker 1 I saw the person, like one of them was, I think they said they had like eyes where their shoulders were and like mouths in the middle of their, like between their nipples.

Speaker 1 Yes, those the anthropophagi, I think, are the, uh, is the name of those, that, that likes. Sir Walter Raleigh.
Yes. Yeah.
Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I still think they're real somewhere, but they just live. I saw one down the street from me in rural Oklahoma as a kid.
Yeah. Yeah.
They just live here. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It was just these were just like the world's best liars. Like,

Speaker 1 I mean, not as easy as I guess. Oh, the lies I would have told.

Speaker 1 Imagine, because like you wind up in like the center of like a European capital, effectively in the center of their entire media ecosystem. And you're like, so have any of you guys been to China?

Speaker 1 All right. I'm going to just say some shit.
Nope.

Speaker 1 I can make you guys believe anything. Good news for me.
They worship me as a a god. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 So the Bachola are the tribe that Cook most likely saw first because they saw him as well.

Speaker 1 And we have, this is one of the things I find so interesting about how kind of how much fidelity there is with their oral tradition, how good it actually is at getting down history.

Speaker 1 We have their record of seeing him, right? So he's writing, he's got people on his boat writing about seeing these people. And we have them singing about seeing his ship.

Speaker 1 Per an article by Fiona Foley, a Bachola artist and scholar writing for the Queensland College of Art at Griffith University, the Bachola people were unique because, not many people in the world would be aware, they created a song recounting what was happening when the ship passed by our country on May 20th of that year.

Speaker 1 The song takes place on a volcanic headland of Gari, known in Bochola as Takiworu. What I love about this song are the layers of metaphors contained within one verse.

Speaker 1 The ship rose out of the sea like a cloud and kept near land for three or four days. One day it came in very close to Takiwaru and they saw many men walking around on it.

Speaker 1 They asked each other, who are these strangers and where are they going?

Speaker 1 So you actually get like a little bit of, you know, like this record of like a conversation of both sides of it in this case, which is fairly rare when you're talking about story like things like this, like first contact between you know an indigenous group and Europeans, that you have like both sides of like the very first conversation about seeing each other, which I find really interesting.

Speaker 1 And frequently they're like, and why do these guys smell like shit? Yeah, well, they smell like that, but you can smell it from here. It's terrible.
Why? Like, all the European settlers just smelled.

Speaker 1 I mean, first of all, they're like rolling in off a boat. Like, they're just like shitting over the side of this thing, right? Just, yeah.

Speaker 1 At first, they're shitting over the side of it, Robert. By the end, they're just like, I really am so hungry.
I can't even get up to the edge.

Speaker 1 Every one of those sailors is like 80% Giardia by body weight. Like, they're just

Speaker 1 stomachs. All worms.
They're just like liver and

Speaker 1 swollen gums. That's what 90% of their body weight comes from.
Oh, man. Yeah.
I mean, that's like, even,

Speaker 1 you know, I remember that article that I was talking about, like, Marco Polo is one of them.

Speaker 1 His whole claim to fame was going to China and like becoming a great ruler in China and like helping them fight a war.

Speaker 1 And you can go, like, they were a way more advanced civilization, the most advanced civilization on the planet.

Speaker 1 They had a printing press at this point, like well ahead of your. And so you can like go back and look at their written record and like, it's just crickets as far as Marco Polo goes.

Speaker 1 But we, you know, we just trust whatever the random guy who, you know, sailed around the bend and then just like came back five years later and was like, China? Ever heard of it? Great. Yeah.
Nope.

Speaker 1 Okay. I'm just going to say shit.
No, this is why I'm an Ibn Battuta stan and not a Marco Polo stan. There you go.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Cool.
You always have been. Look him up, kids.
He's cool. So he probably also did some fucked up shit, man.
I'm not going to lie.

Speaker 1 So, Fiona, here, who's this Bachola scholar and artist who I just quoted from, describes Cook's attempts to classify the denizens of Gari and his decision to name the island Indianhead as, quote, the first evidence of British racialization in Australia, and cites Jodi Bird's book, The Transit of Empire, which describes this as part of a process that allowed the Empire to quote, facilitate, justify, and rationalize the state-sponsored violence that tear land, resources, and sovereignty from indigenous people, right?

Speaker 1 And I think that it doesn't start with the actual colonization or with even the legal code.

Speaker 1 It starts with this guy on a boat trying to racially categorize this people and taking the name of their island away from them and making it kind of a racist copy, right?

Speaker 1 That that's the start of the process of racialization that ends, that, well, it leads to genocide. It doesn't end there, but that's a part of it, right?

Speaker 1 So this was just the beginning of a long process of colonial violence, and a major chapter in that history brings us back to the person who is the subject of these episodes, Eliza Frazier, right?

Speaker 1 I had to set up the rest of this so that we could talk about old Eliza.

Speaker 1 She was possibly born Elizabeth Slack in Worksworth, Derbyshire, and baptized on the 1st of June in 1798, although that is debated.

Speaker 1 One writer in the 1930s described her as coming from the Orkney Islands, and there's a number of people who will claim she came from the Orkney Islands, but there's not evidence of that.

Speaker 1 A great-grandson of hers in New Zealand disputed this, arguing that she was born in Ceylon in modern Sri Lanka, where her parents lived at the time. We do not know for certain.

Speaker 1 The article I found claiming that she was born Elizabeth Shack in Derbyshire was like a Derbyshire website claiming her as like a native daughter of the town. So I don't know.

Speaker 1 Maybe they have a little bit of an agenda. Anyone famous, you know, we don't care why.
Let's just get someone famous. We're scraping the bottom of the barrel in Derbyshire.
Derbyshire?

Speaker 1 Let's go to the genocide insiders. Let's see.

Speaker 1 We don't have anybody. Oh, the article really gives her like a pass on some things that I would not.

Speaker 1 But anyway, we don't know for sure.

Speaker 1 Although it does look like Derbyshire is one of the likelier ones.

Speaker 1 We do have evidence that she came from at least modest means and enjoyed a good education for her time, by which I mean as a woman, she learned to read and write in childhood, which, you know, you're not super poor, generally, if that's happening in England at this period.

Speaker 1 Most men thought that that was scientifically and physically impossible.

Speaker 1 It's starting to change by the time she 1798 is still pretty dark days for that.

Speaker 1 She may have had a husband and at least one child with someone else before she married Captain James Frazier. Maybe not.
Again, kind of some conflicting reports there.

Speaker 1 But she marries this sea captain whose boat, the Sterling Castle, depending on, again, who you read, read, was either a crumbling death trap or a relatively state-of-the-art ship for its time.

Speaker 1 The captain himself, her husband, is described as either a pompous, fat old boar, much in demand by ship owners who had managed to over-insure their vessels.

Speaker 1 In other words, this guy's so incompetent, you hire him to be a run your ship. To drunk drive your car.
Right, right, if your insurance is good.

Speaker 1 He's going to drunk drive your boat into oblivion.

Speaker 1 So that's one claim about him. I've also heard him described as urbane in his manners and in attitudes and features what is deemed a handsome man.

Speaker 1 So either he was a drunk old boar who will crash your ship or he was like a handsome, you know, polite and competent sea captain. You'll hear both stories.
He's been dead a long time.

Speaker 1 I simply don't know.

Speaker 1 Love how mean the conflicting thing. Like the shit.
Yeah, like this big fat idiot who's dumb shit. Yeah.
Sucks shit at his job.

Speaker 1 And then like there's obviously the self-edited Wikipedia entry where it's like urbane in his manner, right? Yeah, he was like, I was handsome as shit,

Speaker 1 picking up subtle things about like

Speaker 1 how attractive he is, right? Right, yeah. His dick game, like, yeah, there's a whole Wikipedia

Speaker 1 subset there. Yeah, uh, he was fit, speaking of dick game, he was 54 and Eliza was 37

Speaker 1 when they left London on October 22nd, 1835. So there's a bit of an age gap here.

Speaker 1 Slight small.

Speaker 1 Now, as is the norm for European parents, they have no interest in parenting their children and leave them behind in Orkney to be watched over by a local Presbyterian minister, which was the style at the times.

Speaker 1 Hey, kids, we're going on a boat for like a year. We may die or not.

Speaker 1 This minister's going to be your dad and mom now. Hang out with a priest.
Yeah, this guy's going to be in charge. Good call.

Speaker 1 Parenting in the 1800s. Most accounts will say that Eliza was pregnant when the vessel departed, although again, there's some dispute on the matter.
The Sterling made it to Sydney the following May.

Speaker 1 So it sets out in October and it makes it to Sydney by May and offloads supplies it had brought from England, which, you know, this is Australia.

Speaker 1 So the supplies are rum, wine, beer, pickles, mustard, you know, the necessities, right? All the things Australians need to survive.

Speaker 1 Starting with rum, wine, and beer. It picks up other goods and charts a course to Singapore.

Speaker 1 And the route to Singapore with these goods that it picks up in Sydney is going to take it past Moriton Bay.

Speaker 1 Unfortunately, for everyone aboard, this takes them near the Swain Reefs, which is a treacherous piece of sea for competent helmsmen to navigate.

Speaker 1 And some of the evidence suggests Captain Fraser and his men may not have been the very best seamen England ever produced.

Speaker 1 Which you could also say, nope, I'm not going to make that joke. So the ship ran aground on the reef, and the crew of 19 got into two lifeboats.

Speaker 1 Captain Frazier, his wife, his 13-year-old nephew, and several other sailors, including a guy named Robert Darge, who we'll talk about later, got into one leaking longboat and everyone else got into a pinnace, which is a slightly nicer boat.

Speaker 1 Both boats traveled together for a time.

Speaker 1 And they split their supplies between them, which included brandy and beer, but no water. So again, they've got

Speaker 1 no, you don't want water. You don't want water in this boat.
You just want some brandy and beer and some pickles with mustard. If you.
Ah, shit. We dropped that stuff with the Aussies.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So they're just like drunk in the heat in the tropics,

Speaker 1 which is going to slowly be killing them. So everyone is slowly dying on these rescue boats.
They don't really know where they are. They do have guns, though.

Speaker 1 So they're drunk and disoriented, but heavily armed. The nearest settlement to them was about 370 miles south of where the Fraser ran aground, but navigation was difficult under these conditions.

Speaker 1 And again, no one drunkenness particularly. Right.
Yeah, right, right. No one's a master sailor here, right? We're not talking about people who are great at what they're doing.

Speaker 1 Now, in their defense, this is also difficult because Captain Frasier's longboat is constantly taking on water. So they're bailing it out 24-7 while they're on it.

Speaker 1 Also adding to the difficulty is that his wife goes into labor on day three because it's pretty stressful having your boat sink and then being on a longboat. So,

Speaker 1 per the most common accounting of the story, she delivers the baby underwater because, again, the boat is constantly sinking and the baby dies almost immediately.

Speaker 1 Which, geez, it's probably, I don't have trouble believing that if she was pregnant, because babies don't do well in these conditions.

Speaker 1 Being born underwater during a shipwreck? Yes, bad way to have a baby. To people who have only consumed alcohol for

Speaker 1 Whose only source of calories are beer and brandy. Yes.
Yeah. I don't know what happened.
How did the baby not make it?

Speaker 1 If she did give birth and have the baby die, it's kind of amazing she lived, right? Like this is, it does point to her being physically pretty resilient. Unbelievable.
Yeah. Now,

Speaker 1 this is not part of the story. Part of why people doubt whether or not she really was pregnant is that when she first gets rescued, she does not talk about having a baby.

Speaker 1 She doesn't talk about this in the first or second version of events that she dictated.

Speaker 1 Later, writers would only say that she avoided this until her story had gone 1800s viral, quote, probably through modesty.

Speaker 1 In other words, she didn't, what it was kind of shameful to talk about, so she didn't initially. But she also does when she starts raising a bunch of money.

Speaker 1 So there's some debate: did she just make this up to kind of get sympathy? Because she definitely does some of that, right? We really don't know.

Speaker 1 Two days later, processing this and several other traumas, Captain Frazier was finally forced to put his failing boat ashore to find water.

Speaker 1 Eliza would later claim that she figured out how to get fresh water by lowering her skirt into a crack and wringing enough water out of it to fill their containers.

Speaker 1 She does lie about almost every part of this story, and I don't assume this is true just because, like, well...

Speaker 1 It's a pretty obvious way to get water, and I'm going to guess other people on these boats had more experience foraging for water than her.

Speaker 1 So I don't know if she had to teach all of them this, but maybe. They didn't have dresses on, though.
Right. They didn't have dresses.

Speaker 1 At any rate, they fill up their water. They finally have water and they continue their journey until they run out of water again.

Speaker 1 Eliza claims that she was able to survive on seawater, but all of the men got sick when they tried. And this is definitely a lie because you simply can't survive on seawater.
Yeah. Right.

Speaker 1 That's a superpower. That's like her being like, and then I just

Speaker 1 flew and flew to the island. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I levitated above the leaky boat. Yeah, you cannot survive on seawater.
It's generally 3% to 4% sodium. Obviously, drinking some, like if you've ever gone swimming, is fine.

Speaker 1 But your kidneys need fresh water to process out all of the sodium. And if you do not have fresh water, you will get sick.
Don't try to live off of seawater.

Speaker 1 They're sort of traveling around the islands off that coast, you know, periodically stopping when they need more water, trying to find food.

Speaker 1 And eventually they wind up off the coast of what was then called Indian Head, right? Based on what Captain Cook had called it. The indigenous people are still calling it Gari.

Speaker 1 But Captain Frazier doesn't want to get on the big island because, number one, he thinks it's a chunk of the Australian mainland, but number two, he's been told everyone here is a cannibal.

Speaker 1 So he's like scared of they can see people and he doesn't want to get close to people because he thinks they'll eat him.

Speaker 1 One day though, the pinnace, which is the second boat with them, goes out to find water while the longboat kind of waits by the shore and it never comes back.

Speaker 1 The people on it do eventually find their way back to civilization. I don't know if they just abandoned Eliza and her husband, maybe because they found them annoying.
They're so annoying. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 There is some evidence. History changed based on how annoying someone is.
Other survivors were like, Yeah, she sucked. We're doing for a different podcast.

Speaker 1 We're looking into the day Lincoln was assassinated. And like, the only reason that Ulysses S.
Grant wasn't there was because Ulysses S. Grant's wife found Mary Todd Lincoln annoying.
Yeah. Slightly.

Speaker 1 Look. Completely changed the course of history.

Speaker 1 Folks, you have to follow your instincts. If you think someone's annoying, you're definitely going to die if you go out to a party with them.

Speaker 1 Never underestimate having that one annoying friend that you keep around just to avoid assassinations. That's right.

Speaker 1 That's the whole reason the guy who created Family Guy survived 9-11, if I'm remembering correctly. Had bad vibes about a flight.
Turned out to be a bad flight to be out.

Speaker 1 I don't remember if that's exactly what happened, but he definitely was supposed to be on one of those flights they're like he keeps doing the quagmire voice yeah yeah

Speaker 1 you're not allowed on this one stop saying giggity giggity man just get the out no they would let anybody on flights back then

Speaker 1 as as evidenced by 9-11 happening right what a time wow

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Speaker 1 So anyway, they get abandoned off the coast of Gari and, you know, they spend about a week kind of sailing around the coast because again they're scared of the cannibals um

Speaker 1 and they manage to like live off of limpets that they tear off of rocks before eventually getting desperate enough that they're like fuck it let's try our luck we're going to die either way um

Speaker 1 It's kind of, I said earlier, they think they found the mainland.

Speaker 1 We don't 100% know if they know this is an island or not, but most accounts will say they thought this was somewhere on the mainland that was just isolated from European civilization.

Speaker 1 They are met very very quickly by five locals with spears.

Speaker 1 Now, contrary to all these myths that Captain Frazier had believed that these people were cannibals, these folks, these bachula people, see strange white people come aground and they show up with food.

Speaker 1 Right? They're like, you guys look like shit. You are obviously dying.
We've watched you sailing or we've watched you like boating around the coast, trying to live off of limpets.

Speaker 1 You're clearly dying. I don't know why you didn't come for help earlier.
Here's some food, right?

Speaker 1 This is very very obviously a humanitarian gesture.

Speaker 1 But even in modern casual accounts, like this write-up I found in Great British Life, which is the one that wants to take credit for her coming from Derbyshire, this humanitarian gesture is often described as like gross and savage.

Speaker 1 Quote, the Machula people approached them with decomposing kangaroo meat. When a sailor ate some, they took some of his clothing.
And like, what?

Speaker 1 Man, number one, they don't have refrigerators, right? Like, this is, this happens in like the winter, so it's not a great season they don't have a lot of food like this kind of going off

Speaker 1 like kangaroo meat is the best they can do and it's better than you were able to do for yourselves like this is a this is a nice thing they approached them with fruit that had brown spots on it it's like what the fuck and like they give them food and they're like hey can i try on your clothes like i haven't seen anything like that it's weird right it's a pretty normal thing to do you're meeting someone from a new culture can i try that hat i've never worn a hat what is that yeah to this day

Speaker 1 athletes exchange jerseys after, you know, it's a thing that's done, and it's not a sign of war. No.
It's a sign of like, hey. This is silly.

Speaker 1 When I met you, you gave me some rancid kangaroo meat, although for a different reason that we don't need to get into. And then we exchanged shirts.
We did exchange shirts. Yes.

Speaker 1 That was more to, yeah. It was a weird hallucinogen.
But the rancid kangaroo meat. Yeah, if you make it into high meat, you trip off of it.
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 Look it up, folks.

Speaker 1 So not long after this, eight of the remaining men who had gotten like landed with Captain Frasier and Eliza either try to leave or like walk off to try to find a town to get rescued for everyone else, or they just desert.

Speaker 1 We don't really know. Crewman Harry Yolden is the source of the claim that like we deserted and he blames Eliza.
for making them desert, right?

Speaker 1 Quote, she was a terrible liar and the most profane, artful, wicked woman that ever lived.

Speaker 1 And this does comport with some of her later behavior, although other crewmen allege that Yolden was the problem and he stole a bunch of water, but like way more water than he was supposed to be drinking.

Speaker 1 Both of these could be true. Maybe they both sucked, right?

Speaker 1 He also, Yolden also called Eliza a she-captain, which was him insulting both her and her husband. Yeah.
He sounds like the worst. It's possible for everyone to suck.

Speaker 1 She's just stirring shit in the middle of a life and death thing, just like shit stirring on a new level, being like, oh, well, I guess we should listen to our captain.

Speaker 1 Our sheer wife yeah yeah at the same time i do think that you should now address me as she captain as she captain sure of course because it's kind of grown on me in the last 30 seconds i i don't feel like you need to gender captain like it's not an inherently masculine or feminine word i don't know there's there's kind of a flow to it she captain it's like calling someone a she person you don't really need to do that that just kind of sounds fucked up yeah

Speaker 1 um so eliza alleged that yolden at one point threatened to throw the captain overboard while they were still on the boat. I don't know.

Speaker 1 And also, depending on how competent Captain Frazier was, this may have been an understandable move.

Speaker 1 I can see a version of the story where throwing him overboard might have been the best thing for everyone.

Speaker 1 At any rate, after they are rescued by the Bachola, the group splits up. And Darj, Yolden, and four other men head for where they think is Moritan Bay, but Moritan Bay is on the mainland.

Speaker 1 So again, they don't really know where they are. Eliza, her husband.
Good navigators.

Speaker 1 We're going to head over to Sydney real quick.

Speaker 1 It's like east, and I think east is left. So yeah, we'll just try that.
They've been at sea, like offshore sailing around the island for the past like few weeks. And now they're like, I think.

Speaker 1 I say they're bad at this. I'm sure it's hard.
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 I haven't tried to navigate this way without access to a backup plan.

Speaker 1 Eliza, her husband, and four other men go south with the bachola, right? Now, most of them have guns, but they become separated at some point,

Speaker 1 or several of them become separated at some point. It's a little bit unclear exactly what happens.

Speaker 1 All of these stories are kind of different, but Eliza and her husband wind up living with the bachola for several months.

Speaker 1 And the first thing that she reports the bacholas show them how to do is dig a hole in the sand so that it fills with water and then add leaves from a local shrub to improve the taste, right?

Speaker 1 So again, they're like trying to teach them how to survive. They are attempting to do a humanitarian things, right? It was monstrous.

Speaker 1 They're like, oh, you guys are always, you're dipping your filthy clothing into water? Like, no, this is how you get nice, clean water.

Speaker 1 Patiently teaching them how to not die.

Speaker 1 She's like, oh my God, they're trying to kill me. Yeah.
Now, Eliza admits that they did this, but she also claims they demanded clothing from the men and beat one of them when he refused.

Speaker 1 And here's how John Wright, the author of that Derbyshire Life article, describes what happened next.

Speaker 1 Their dwindling numbers made the Aborigines, again, that's not Aboriginal people is the preferred term, but this is how he writes it, bolder and the exchange of clothing continued until they were naked.

Speaker 1 The men were led away, leaving Eliza naked apart from some trailing sea grape plant she tied around her waist. Aboriginal women took her to their camp, prodded her, and pulled her hair.

Speaker 1 They gave her a baby to breastfeed as its mother was sick and painted her body with charcoal and lizard grease to make her skin darker. Now, this is largely wrong.

Speaker 1 It's based on a mix of three different accounts left by Frazier and several subsequent books, one of which is fiction based on her story.

Speaker 1 Some of these details are true, but are missing important details.

Speaker 1 For example, the story about them painting her with charcoal and grease is likely true, but they didn't do it to make her skin darker.

Speaker 1 There's substantial documentation that the bachola used charcoal to treat wounds, rubbing it into like an injury as a salve or unguent. perhaps mixed with herbs, right?

Speaker 1 And this can actually be effective if you don't have better methods, right, available. Like this is a thing that the Bachola and other people do.

Speaker 1 So this account and other accounts are like, oh, they did it because they wanted to make her skin darker, like theirs.

Speaker 1 It's like, no, she was probably covered in cuts because she'd been shipwrecked and at sea for months. And they were trying to treat her injuries.
Blackface was actually their idea.

Speaker 1 It's not something that we do on our. Yeah, they actually came up with the idea because they thought it was cool.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it looks to me like they were, again, trying to teach her how to have clean water and deal with her injuries so she doesn't die.

Speaker 1 And also the story about being forced to nurse is not in either of Eliza's original accounts.

Speaker 1 And she, in fact, does not bring this up at all until she gets back to London, which is like the third version of the story she gives, which is also when she adds the part of the story that she gave birth on a lifeboat.

Speaker 1 So again, maybe she was just embarrassed to talk about it earlier, or maybe she knew that this, she was raising money off of the story at this point.

Speaker 1 So maybe she just knew that like, oh, adding in that they made me breastfeed one of their babies, that's going to really like be freaky to all of these like white British people that like I was made to do this.

Speaker 1 So I'll just throw that into the story too.

Speaker 1 She would also later claim to have been given the job of maggot picking, right? Otherwise picking like maggots out of injuries. And maybe she was.

Speaker 1 That's a thing you need, you're going to have people do.

Speaker 1 And they have her work, not like in a mean way, but because you don't survive as a group of people living this way unless everyone does stuff, right?

Speaker 1 In general, she alleges bestial treatment from the Bachola, who by her accounts forced her and the other survivors into hard labor and beat them when they failed to work at a sufficient pace.

Speaker 1 Now it's important that we take a second here to look at how the bachola would have seen these white people.

Speaker 1 At this point in time, they have had very little contact with Europeans, and their traditional concept of the world was a lot smaller than it would become.

Speaker 1 Since part of their funerary ritual involved skinning the dead, which left them looking white, they interpreted the first first white people they saw as something like ghosts returned in corporeal form, right?

Speaker 1 These are the ghosts of our dead who have come back to us, right? That's at least, you know,

Speaker 1 an anthropological account that I found.

Speaker 1 And it was common, some of the evidence for this, is that it was really common in this period for stranded whites who like wound up on the island to get adopted into different bands on Gari after one member of a tribe or another would be like, oh, I think this is the returned spirit of like my husband or my kid, right?

Speaker 1 And so that was kind of like the way that they rationalized what they were doing and sort of, you know, what was going on under the hood here.

Speaker 1 Another thing that's happening in this period is that, you know, you've got cities like Sydney, which are European cities and thus have European prisons. And sometimes convicts will escape.

Speaker 1 these prisons on mainland settlements and they'll flee and some of them will wind up on these islands and they will be taken in by the bachola and other tribes.

Speaker 1 And again, the same kind of justification is used when someone arrives.

Speaker 1 A 1977 paper in the Journal of Occupational Papers and Anthropology noted, quote, the convict most likely to have reached the island first was James Davis, who ran in March 1829 and subsequently joined the Bachola on the Mary River.

Speaker 1 Although initially known to coastal aborigines as Duninbot, meaning small one, among the Bachola he became Thurimbi, the reincarnated son of a tribal elder, killed in battle some years before.

Speaker 1 Again, details of Davis's exploits are sparse, for he was a particularly taciturn individual who remained tight-jawed about much of his 14 years' experiences as a wild white man.

Speaker 1 David Bracewell's verbosity earned him the name Want, or Talker, but it was not until his fourth abstention from Moritan Bay after July 1839 that he actually mentions having passed over to Fraser's Island, called Gari by the natives, right?

Speaker 1 He spells it Carina. I don't understand why, but it's pronounced Gari, where he remained for nearly a year.

Speaker 1 His impression was that its inhabitants were very numerous, he thinks thousands, and at their great fights he has seen them covering the beach for four miles in extent.

Speaker 1 Finally, John Faley, called Gizburi, after a long trek from Armadall to the Mary River via the Bunyal festivals in the Black All Ranges, moved with the Aboriginal people of Wide Bay for almost 12 years, helping them to plan raids against early white settlers before being retaken by Lieutenant Bly and his native mounted police in December 1854.

Speaker 1 Fayhee, it seems, became the most totally incorporated of all the fugitives into Aboriginal lifestyles, passing through the Bora ceremony and bearing upon his body the Musgara scars and the Epaulet Bora marks on the white shoulder.

Speaker 1 After enduring the brutal privations of convict life, each of these escapees testified to the comparatively kindly treatment they received from the Aboriginal people.

Speaker 1 In John Fahey's case, his black kinsmen fought bitterly with the native troopers to prevent his recapture.

Speaker 1 Upon his return to Sydney, however, officialdom casually awarded Fahey a year's imprisonment on the roads and chains and forgot him.

Speaker 1 So there's this like fascinating story of like these people who have been tossed out by their own culture, and like you have no value but like being chained to a gang working on the roads or locked in a cage.

Speaker 1 And they're adopted as members of the family by some of these groups. I find that particularly the case of Fayhee, where he's like helping them raid at like white settlers.

Speaker 1 And they're like fighting, you know, tooth and nail to the death to stop him from being recaptured. They like, you know, ritually scar his body.
They take it.

Speaker 1 I wish we knew more about that guy. It's an amazing story.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 All of these interpretations where it's like, and they thought we were ghosts and we're like, it's like, but then all of of the stories when people, when they're living side by side, it's always

Speaker 1 people love to like go join the tribe and like are accepted in. And it seems to be a mix.
Like some of these people do go back and forth.

Speaker 1 A couple of these guys go back several times, will like try to make it in Europe and then head back to the tribe.

Speaker 1 Like some of them have like families that they will periodically leave and then come back to. So it is like a, it's like a complicated

Speaker 1 exchange here.

Speaker 1 but certainly like like especially this case of fahey this guy who is like oh you know what these people rip i'm gonna help him kill

Speaker 1 like these colonizers right um sounds like and then yeah dies abandoned in a chain gang by the uh british authorities uh real bummer real bummer

Speaker 1 um but yeah like fascinating stuff and the fact that It's one of those things, one of the things I find interesting that we'll talk about more in part two, is this belief that like these people with white skin are like returning spirits isn't going to last, right?

Speaker 1 This is a belief that exists primarily when they have not had a lot of contact with Europeans. They don't keep believing that forever, right?

Speaker 1 Like it becomes very clear as they have more and more contact. Oh, no, no, no.
These are these people are something else and they're kind of a problem for us, right?

Speaker 1 Like this is something that changes because this is not a static culture, right? They're capable like any culture of adapting to times because they're people, right?

Speaker 1 Like, this isn't just like, this is the thing they believed. It's like, no, this was like a belief that existed at a period of time and changed after contact with the world, right? Right.

Speaker 1 On first pass. They were like, they look different.
There must be a reason for that. Oh, no, they're just assholes.

Speaker 1 Kind of like our dead people. Maybe they're like, you know, this is something that happens.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's not like when you think about like the, what they had access to information-wise, it's not an illogical conclusion to come to initially. Right.

Speaker 1 So, and again, it's important here at this point as we kind of close this episode out that I make two acknowledgments.

Speaker 1 The first is that even though the vast bulk of the evidence suggests that the people who took in Eliza and her husband and shipmates were trying to be kind and welcomed them in essentially as members of the family, this still would have been disorienting and terrifying for Eliza and her shipmates, and not just because they're racist, because, like, you don't know these people's language, you don't understand entirely what they're trying to do.

Speaker 1 It is a scary situation, even if you're not a bigot, it's like scary because you can't communicate directly with these folks. And some of them are going to get angry at you, right?

Speaker 1 Like, because you're not good at hunting and gathering and you're kind of dragging the rest of the group down and taking away resources of them, right? And you're like another mouth to feed.

Speaker 1 You're like that baby. They're like, God, can I please just fucking bash his head in with a rock? Could I like, it's what are we doing here? Right.

Speaker 1 And like, like many cultures, like there is like corporal punishment.

Speaker 1 If you're not pulling your your weight maybe you get smacked right you get yelled at or you get smacked right because that's just like a thing that's not uncommon with people and these folks are not they're like children right like you have to they can't they're not learning how to do anything fast enough and they require a lot of food to keep alive um so many wacky misunderstandings right there's some misunderstandings and also just these people this is the starving time of the year so you have to also keep in mind when members of the bachola are doing stuff like smacking them for not being good at gathering food, they're starving actively because it's the starving season, right?

Speaker 1 You go hungry at points in the year regularly because it's just kind of hard to live this way. They gave me a spanking on my little bottom.
These savages. Right.

Speaker 1 And when we talk about like, yeah, maybe they'd get smacked, you know, smacked around or hit or something for not doing a job correctly. That is the same in the culture they came from.

Speaker 1 The most common phrase to describe how the British Navy is held together in this period is rum, sodomy, and the lash.

Speaker 1 Otherwise, keeping them drunk, letting them fuck each other, and whipping them until they're bloody when they don't perform at the expected level, right?

Speaker 1 Like, Captain Frazier would have whipped people on his ship. So, the fact that they are also being subject to probably some corporal punishment when they fuck up is not like alien to them, right?

Speaker 1 Their own culture does this. He's like, but not me.
Yeah. I'm Captain Frazier.
Sometimes people, you know, smack each other. It's not uncommon.
This is not a bachola thing.

Speaker 1 So the worst that we might say then about the bachola is they expected these guests or ghosts or whatever, however they saw them, to pull their own weight.

Speaker 1 And they weren't afraid to, like, you know, chastise them if they put the group in danger.

Speaker 1 Much of Eliza and the European world's horror at her treatment is going to come from the fact that the bachola, they didn't, it's not that they treated her as a slave or as a captive, but they treated her like an equal.

Speaker 1 And for the rest of her life, Eliza Frazier is never going to forgive them for this. And neither are the Europeans.

Speaker 1 But that's all coming in part two, Jack. That sounds like it's going to be a really fun part two without any horrifying information to learn.
Yeah. No, it's all good from here.

Speaker 1 They start a dance troupe. Smooth sailing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 They dance it out.

Speaker 1 They open a B and B together. Yeah, it's great.
It's all going to be good.

Speaker 1 All right. Jack, you got anything to plug? I do, Robert.
Thank you so much for asking. I co-host a show called The Daily Zeitgeist with Miles Gray,

Speaker 1 also a guest on this show in the past.

Speaker 1 We're on there

Speaker 1 every weekday, I believe.

Speaker 1 That can't be right. That's too many.
It's too many damn shows.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Monday through Friday, we drop at least an episode. So you can find me there.

Speaker 1 And I'm on Twitter Twitter at Jack underscore O'Brien and on Blue Sky at JackObie, the number one, because I didn't get on Blue Sky fast enough. Right, right.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 either get on Blue Sky or don't. Honestly, I think we've all had enough social media at this point.
Maybe light your computer on fire. That's a good idea.
That's an interesting idea.

Speaker 1 Burn your own house down with all of your electronics in it, except whatever electronics you use to listen to this podcast. Don't stop listening to this podcast.
Never take advice from me. Obviously.

Speaker 1 Except this advice, obviously.

Speaker 1 Burn down your neighborhood. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay, let's end on that note.

Speaker 2 Behind the Bastards is a production of CoolZone Media.

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Speaker 2 Behind the Bastards is now available on YouTube. New episodes every Wednesday and Friday.
Subscribe to our channel, youtube.com/slash at behind the bastards.

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