Part Two: Behind the Bastards Live Show: The Ballad of Bo Gritz

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Speaker 11 Hey guys, it's Aaron Andrews from Calm Down with Aaron and Carissa. So as a sideline reporter, game day is extra busy for me, but I know it can be busy for parents everywhere.

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Speaker 13 Okay, like a grown-up. I'm gonna sit normally now.
I'm gonna sit like a grown-up. Let's give a hands up to a.

Speaker 13 I feel like that was for you. You don't fucking control me.
I feel like I. I booed you turning the chair around.
No, they don't control you, but clearly I do. Yeah, well, yeah, yeah.
There you go.

Speaker 13 There's never been a question about that. You control us all.
Also, shout out us at graduating our booze.

Speaker 13 Yes, yes, we've moved up to hard liquor. We've moved up.

Speaker 13 You're on to bourbon. Brown is the brown liquor.
Yeah, brown. Because I got to walk in the crowd later, and I'm very afraid of falling.
Oh, that part's going to be fun.

Speaker 13 So,

Speaker 13 shall we return to the story of Bo Greitz, right?

Speaker 13 So, when we last left off, Bo was touring the country, telling lies that he didn't need to tell about Vietnam, and raising money to try and send a bunch of goons back to Southeast Asia to rescue a bunch of guys who were not in Southeast Asia.

Speaker 13 Is he bored?

Speaker 13 I mean, this seems more fun than like getting a job.

Speaker 13 What would you rather do, lie to television about Vietnam and take a bunch of money to go vacation in Thailand or work?

Speaker 13 I mean, yeah. Yeah,

Speaker 13 look, I'm lying about I don't think I would like to actually

Speaker 13 do the

Speaker 13 gun, like, I would just go vacation. That's the part of the game.
That's what I'm saying. Like, I was like, yeah, I'd go and just go.
And I'm never going to.

Speaker 13 Unfortunately, Bo does not have that governor in his head. No.

Speaker 13 No, when you and I start our Vietnam Grift, it's going to go a lot better. It's going to go a lot better.

Speaker 13 There'll be a lot of timeshares involved. It's going to be hard convincing people in 2040 that there's still U.S.
soldiers trapped in Vietnam.

Speaker 13 Yeah.

Speaker 13 You can't tell me I'm wrong. Deep down, Bo is just a podcaster.

Speaker 13 So, Bo's touring the country. He's speaking on different TV shows.
He's talking at churches, at veterans' organizations, he's telling all these stories.

Speaker 13 And yeah,

Speaker 13 after months of raising money, he launches what he calls Operation Velvet Hammer in 1981. Come on, man.
I know. I know.

Speaker 13 That's a good one. That's a good one.
Congratulations,

Speaker 13 fam. I would use that title.
If I was writing a screenplay called called Operation Velvet Hammer,

Speaker 13 it would be about a strip club that had to arm themselves.

Speaker 13 Yes, I was like, this is a porn. Yeah, in order to carry.
No, not a porn. What?

Speaker 13 Velvet Hammer? Yeah,

Speaker 13 one of the employees at the strip club gets kidnapped by a mafia, and the others have to form a commando unit to rescue them. So it's like a stripper escape room.
Yes, kind of. Yes, yes.

Speaker 13 It's Portland. We probably have.
Yes, that exists. No, no, it's like taken, but instead of there being one Liam Neeson, there's a bunch, and they're all strippers, right?

Speaker 13 That's the story.

Speaker 13 That's not a bad idea for... I'm just going to, yeah.
Greenlit.

Speaker 13 I do think an adult escape room might actually be a viable business. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 13 A viable business that will immediately get like the lawsuits. The lawsuits.
Oh, my God. Immediately.

Speaker 13 Yes.

Speaker 13 He launches Operation Velvet Hammer in 1981.

Speaker 13 Writing for Time magazine, Pico Eyer reports that Bo gathered up, quote, 21 drifters, dreamers, and desperados, recruited a psychic, a hypnotherapist, and some reporters, and began praying.

Speaker 13 Okay, okay,

Speaker 13 I might be here for this one.

Speaker 13 I'm kind of on his team now. If I'm putting together a platoon of veterans in order to rescue guys, what do you need? Well, you need some drifters, obviously.

Speaker 13 You're going to need some dreamers, some desperados. A psychic, clearly.
Psychic. You're not going to get far without a hypnotherapist, and of course, some reporters.

Speaker 13 I might be on his team for this one. And so they start training together to go into Laos and to rescue, or at least find proof that there's men being held prisoner across the border in Vietnam.

Speaker 13 Now, prop.

Speaker 13 If you're training...

Speaker 13 roughly a platoon's worth of guys who are already combat veterans, but if you're training them to insert themselves without any support into some of the most dangerous terrain on earth in order to rescue prisoners from a heavily guarded camp.

Speaker 13 Where would you do that training?

Speaker 13 I mean, caveat would be: I wouldn't be doing this training if you were. If you were the worst thing to do, I promise you, you don't have the right answer.

Speaker 13 Oh, I don't know. It's so funny.
Where would I do this? Yeah, where would you train these guys to go into Laos?

Speaker 13 Somewhere similar to Laos.

Speaker 13 That's a good answer. It's close.

Speaker 13 But no, no, no, no.

Speaker 13 If you're Bogue Wrights, the place you pick is the American Cheerleading Association Academy in Leesburg, Florida. Obviously.

Speaker 13 Where would you guys go? Right? You made that. That's not what that says.
Look, Bogue. Ain't no way in the world that's what your scripts say.

Speaker 13 Sun Tzu says, know your enemy and know yourself, and you need not fear the result of a thousand battles. I think

Speaker 13 knows the North Vietnamese. I think he also said, Burr.

Speaker 13 It's bold. Burr, burr, burr, burr, burr, burr, burr.

Speaker 13 So I was going to do a bit about how North Vietnam based all of their fighting strategies on cheerleading, but

Speaker 13 you already took it from me, so we're good. We're good.
I was one step ahead. Oh, you were.
Oh my gosh. Just like the cheerleader.
Just like the cheerleader. The cheerleader's middle name is Lynn.

Speaker 13 So one of Bo's, to give you an idea of the caliber. That was a throwaway joke.
Y'all catch that one? Y'all catch that Joe A joke? The middle name is Lynn.

Speaker 13 She's Kaylee Lynn. You know what I'm saying? Dang, sorry.
I can't. I literally.

Speaker 13 So, I apologize.

Speaker 13 I should give you an idea of the kind of men that Bo's working with. So, one of his volunteers is a guy named Terry Smith.
Now, Terry is a former Green Beret, so that's good, right?

Speaker 13 Probably want someone with that kind of experience on the team.

Speaker 13 Now, before getting involved in Velvet Hammer, Terry had been training to become a college football player, and he quit spring training to go to Laos with Bo.

Speaker 13 He told Time when they asked him why, I gave up something I've always wanted, but there were at least a dozen Green Berets on operations in that area in Lao who never got out.

Speaker 13 When I shoot the first commie, I'm going to have an orgasm. I'm going to come out.

Speaker 13 Wait. This has gone off the rails.
Okay. I'm going to come out with a POW or die trying.
I figure we'll either go down in history or start World War III.

Speaker 13 That's a beautiful mind. That's a beautiful mind.
I'm sorry. You need to stay home.

Speaker 13 You need to not have a gun. You need to not have a gun.
Look,

Speaker 13 you

Speaker 13 we could talk about the Second Amendment, but that should get your guns taken away. I feel like.
Nope, nope, nope. Hand him over.
I'm sorry.

Speaker 13 Yes, absolutely not. This person is unwell.
Yeah, very. Oh, you haven't even, we have not finished with Terry Smith.
So

Speaker 13 that's the name. Terry Smith.
Terry Smith. That's very Terry behavior.
Yeah. Sorry if there's any.
Are there any Terries in the audience?

Speaker 13 Thank God. Wow.

Speaker 13 Thank God. Thank God.
It's a Terry Freezo.

Speaker 13 I felt very scared those motherfuckers.

Speaker 13 Now I'm all,

Speaker 13 there's 500 people in this room, and none of y'all are Terry. It's not a real name.
That's an interesting stat. Yeah, it's a fake name.
I think Terry was a CIA plant. Anyway,

Speaker 13 especially with that type of talk.

Speaker 13 That's very much some Black's Rule energy. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 13 You know, we don't call ourselves that, right? Like, we would never write Black's Rule, okay? I'm just...

Speaker 13 Bose.

Speaker 13 Roughly two dozen guys, right?

Speaker 13 Smith, you know, this guy we quoted from, purportedly a combat veteran, but no one's checking up on that. I say he said he was a Green Beret.
All these guys say that they had been involved.

Speaker 13 No one's checking. Wait, was he not? Was he not? I don't know.
No one knows. No one looked.
No one asked.

Speaker 13 These are men who showed up at a cheerleading academy in Florida and said, I'm willing to travel to Laos to kill strangers. Like, God.

Speaker 13 That's what they did for us. But there might be one of our friends there.
Maybe our buddy's there. I'm just saying, Eric Prince is foaming at the mouth.
Oh, yeah. Oh, beyond foaming.

Speaker 13 And not just at the mouth. So.

Speaker 13 My mom is here.

Speaker 13 Hi, Sophie's mom. Hi, Mom.

Speaker 13 So.

Speaker 13 Terry told reporters a lot of beautiful nonsense. Not beautiful nonsense.
A A lot of nonsense.

Speaker 13 One of his stories that he would tell the news was that when he was in Vietnam, he watched a whole platoon of NVA soldiers stop and cut up a pregnant woman together.

Speaker 13 Quote, I wanted to rip their heads off, but I couldn't do nothing about it. Now, look, no side in any war has a monopoly on war crimes.

Speaker 13 But 30 guys all stop to cut up a single pregnant woman is just not the sort of war crime I'm going to believe happened unless you have some evidence, right? That's just a weird move, right?

Speaker 13 What was the situation where you couldn't do anything? These guys are all occupied and you're just what? Like,

Speaker 13 what are you claiming was going on here, Terry? I don't know. That said, do drink because it is a war crime.
So get on it, folks. Now,

Speaker 13 I think that this is the kind of nonsense that fits in less with what actually happened and more with the fact that all these guys are now telling tall tales about the things that actually happened in order to express their fantasies.

Speaker 13 And like, they're trying to justify the fact that they they want to go murder a bunch of strangers in the jungle, right? Like, so you have to tell, like, what's the worst thing I can imagine?

Speaker 13 Well, this would justify me doing whatever, right?

Speaker 13 This summary of that Florida gathering by Time magazine really says a lot.

Speaker 13 Quote, they were just high on the idea, adrenaline and the ballad of the Green Berets blaring over the loudspeaker at all of them, an ex-special forces sergeant still embittered about losing his son in Vietnam, and Terry Smith humping a rucksack, urging them on, suck that clean Florida air.

Speaker 13 Just a maniac. All these guys, maniacs.

Speaker 13 Their plan,

Speaker 13 the plan that they're training for is nuts from the jump.

Speaker 13 Bo's idea, we're all going to fly into Laos as tourists, and then we'll rent a house on the Mekong Delta across from Vietnam, and we'll pretend to be providing humanitarian aid to Cambodian refugees.

Speaker 13 We'll get smuggled a bunch of machine guns, which should be easy, obviously, and then we'll embed with friendly anti-communist guerrillas fighting the Vietnamese state across the border, right?

Speaker 13 And they'll help us find these POWs. If we're captured, we're going to travel with gold so we can pay our ransoms.

Speaker 13 And we're going to bring with us, just in case, what they called get-out-of-jail free cards. These were self-printed IOUs promising $1,000 if someone took them and the bearer to a U.S.
embassy.

Speaker 13 The embassies had not agreed to validate these. First of all, these are just, I carry one of those in my pocket now.

Speaker 13 Yeah, first of all,

Speaker 13 America didn't send you, number one. And number two, you are going to be robbed immediately.
Immediately.

Speaker 13 Oh, crap, you've seen where this is going. Yeah.

Speaker 13 So.

Speaker 13 The next part of the plan is, once they find a POW camp, we will either break everyone out or we'll take pictures, depending on the situation.

Speaker 13 And then we'll send the proof back to D.C., and that'll convince convince the president to send air support from the 7th Fleet in, right? We will start the war in Vietnam right there.

Speaker 13 He's going to immediately call in an airstrike, and we'll free these guys. Now, bro, this is like pre-like, this ain't no internet.
Like, how long you gonna call the president from Laos?

Speaker 13 Yeah, you're gonna call the president from fucking Laos, and you're gonna get him to send the 7th Fleet to bomb Vietnam again. Again, 10 years after the warrants.
Okay. Great, great idea, guys.

Speaker 13 Amazing. And Bo's plan is that, like, obviously, we'll win a second time, right?

Speaker 13 Like,

Speaker 13 you know,

Speaker 13 it's like when you're playing your brother or something at Smash Brothers, and like, he gets you, but he just, like, he just mashed buttons, you know?

Speaker 13 He's not going to mash those buttons the same way again. Vietnam was like that, right?

Speaker 13 Maybe you pick Samus the next time. That was Bo's.

Speaker 13 That was Bo's brakes. Your brother beating the brakes off you every time, right?

Speaker 13 Yeah, got it.

Speaker 13 So, unfortunately, the money that Bo raised telling pointless lies about his time in Vietnam, did not extend past partying in Florida.

Speaker 13 One member of the group, because so they run out of money at the cheerleading academy. Really?

Speaker 13 And one member of the group, Terry fucking Smith, suggests, hey guys, I know how we can get some extra money. We're in Florida.
It's the 80s.

Speaker 13 Let's go murder a bunch of Coke dealers and take their money. I was like, I'm going to go fund our trip to Vietnam.
Well, allow with Coke dealer money.

Speaker 13 I said to myself, they're going to say they're going to sell Coke. And I was like, no, that'd be dumb.
No, that'd be dumb. They're going to take money from Coke dealers.

Speaker 13 I was like, oh, you're going to rob Coke dealers. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 13 We're going to start an independent war with the cartels so that we can start an independent war with Vietnam.

Speaker 13 At their base,

Speaker 13 cheerleading kill.

Speaker 13 Out of their cheerleading base. Now, Terry Smith told Time magazine: if I got to kill 20 American bad guys to get 100 POWs out of Vietnam, I'll do it.

Speaker 13 Of course, Terry, absolutely. Terry said, go fight Roar.

Speaker 13 That was good, Sophie. Thank you.

Speaker 13 Thank you.

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Speaker 1 Perfect for anyone with kids, pets, or anyone who loves an easy-to-clean, spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slip covers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style.

Speaker 1 Whether you need a single chair, love seat, or a luxuriously large sectional, Anibay has you covered. Visit washable sofas.com to upgrade your home.

Speaker 1 Sofas start at just $699 and right now, get early access to Black Friday savings, up to 60% off store-wide, with a 30-day money-back guarantee. Shop now at washablesofas.com.
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Speaker 1 to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

Speaker 4 It's the gaming event of the year featuring T-Pain's Nappy Boy Grizzlies versus Neo's Gentleman's Gaming.

Speaker 5 It's a 4v4 matchup featuring Call of Duty, Tetris, Track Mania, Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3 Plus 4, and Tekken 8.

Speaker 8 Season 0 of the Global Gaming League is live streaming on YouTube and Twitch.

Speaker 9 Head over to globalgamingleague.com.

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Speaker 16 So

Speaker 13 Operation Velvet Hammer worked out about as well as an actual Velvet Hammer. After this, Bo doesn't give up.
That's one thing the military taught him.

Speaker 13 The military taught him two things. One is how to stick to a plan, and the other is how to not win a war in Vietnam.
Right? Those are the two things he learns from his service.

Speaker 13 So, Bo organizes a smaller group to hunt for clues in Thailand. And I have to assume that the word hunt here means smoke, and the word clues here stands for tie sticks.

Speaker 13 Anyway, they find no information about any POWs

Speaker 13 hunting in Thailand. He's just shooting out arbitrary countries that are like close to where.
Look, you know what? Let me say that.

Speaker 13 Actually, prop, if you guys want to donate some money, you know, really, really coffin and give deep, I think we could find some POWs in Thailand. I'm pretty sure we could.

Speaker 13 We're going to need like six weeks at La Meridian in Bangkok, and I think we can knock it out. I really think we can knock it out.
I was a little specific. Yeah.
It's just one boat.

Speaker 13 It's just, look, it's just one bus into the bush. Right.
But we could stay out there and... Based in the La Meridia.

Speaker 13 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 13 Do some

Speaker 13 mental health work and look, massages.

Speaker 13 This podcast is not sponsored by La Meridia. You guys aren't all in Intel, but let me tell you, as a CIA man, all of the good, all of the real information comes from massage artists.

Speaker 13 So my plan is to get like eight hours of massages a day, right? And then I'll figure out where all of the prisoners are. So it's a good idea.
And most of them speak English, right? I don't know.

Speaker 13 Also, as a side note, as I've been sitting here, I thought Velvet Hammer also sounds like a Prince album. Yeah, that would be a pretty good name reference album.
It would be a Prince album. Anyway.

Speaker 13 Yeah. Also, not a bad band name.
Anyway,

Speaker 13 how are they not out of money completely at this point? Well, they're continuing. Actually, we'll talk about who's giving them money because that's fun, Sophie.
That's really fun.

Speaker 13 So Bo keeps raising money and public awareness of U.S. POWs that are definitely still trapped in Vietnam.
He succeeds in securing several high-profile celebrity donations.

Speaker 13 Wait, who do you think it is? Yeah.

Speaker 13 Give me two names. Kissinger.
No, celebrities. Celebrities.
Like movie star. Celebrities.
Movie star. Movie star.

Speaker 13 Movie or TV. John Wayne, Charlton Hill.

Speaker 13 I was like John Wayne, Robert Redford.

Speaker 13 Ollie North's not a TV star or a movie star at this point in time. You're all getting very close, but you're not there yet.
No.

Speaker 13 Yup. Who said that? Someone said

Speaker 13 Clint Eastwood sends $30,000

Speaker 13 and allegedly promised to get Ronald Reagan's blessing.

Speaker 13 Allegedly, Bo says Clint said, if you can find proof of a POW, I'll make sure Reagan sends in an airstrike, right?

Speaker 13 I don't know if Clint Eastwood did,

Speaker 13 other than he definitely sent the money, right?

Speaker 13 And then

Speaker 13 no one's going to guess this.

Speaker 13 William Shatner donated $10,000

Speaker 13 To be fair to our boy,

Speaker 13 Bill Shatner sends 10 grand if in exchange for the rights

Speaker 13 to Bo Gritz's life. Okay,

Speaker 13 right? Bill's got an angle. We know our life.
I see the play. I see the play.
Captain Kirk knows what he's doing. Respect, right? Actually, respect, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 13 I think 10K is a hilarious amount for his life, right? Yeah.

Speaker 13 So the money that they raise is enough that in November of 1982, Bo finally succeeds in taking a commando team to Lao, where the most obvious thing happens.

Speaker 13 And I want to quote from Bruce Franklin's book, MIA here.

Speaker 13 Almost as soon as they arrived in Laos, they were ambushed, routed, and forced to flee as fast as they could back to Thailand.

Speaker 13 The ambushers, contrary to their initial assumptions, were not even treacherous communists, but a rival anti-communist Laotian group whom Greitz's men had offended in Thailand, and to whom Greitz, ironically enough, reportedly had to pay $17,500 ransom to recover a captured American teammate.

Speaker 13 The Raiders, of course, encountered no POWs. Now, there's a couple of things about this.
First off, they did kind of succeed in rescuing a POW. Yes.

Speaker 13 Touche!

Speaker 13 Did they bring that POW with them? Yes.

Speaker 13 But they did save him.

Speaker 13 Second,

Speaker 13 it's time for another drink because also two of his local Laotian guides die in the ambush, which is very sad.

Speaker 13 Although, you have to imagine the guys who are taking him into the jungle, probably not great.

Speaker 13 Right?

Speaker 13 The dudes who were working with this guy, I don't know. Anyway, that said, still sad.
Take a drink.

Speaker 13 That is so funny.

Speaker 13 Not the deaths. Not the deaths.

Speaker 13 But the fact that they immediately get ambushed being ransomed, super funny. Now, if you're keeping track, the only American captive they've encountered is someone they brought with them.

Speaker 13 But the very next month, Bo tries again flying to Thailand and renting a $1,000 a month safe house. And $1,000 a month in the 1980s, that is a nice fucking safe house.
That's a lot of money.

Speaker 13 Again, prop, we could find some information

Speaker 13 in $1,000 a month safe house.

Speaker 13 Some of y'all could fund a minimum money today. You're staying in a nice, well, $1,000 a month, I don't know.
Yeah. We'll see.
Safe houses, you know, they're on a sliding scale.

Speaker 13 So one of those comrades claims to have totally seen bad guys across the border drilling with weapons. Sure, maybe.
Like, it's Vietnam.

Speaker 13 They have an army now like like they're their country right like they're allowed to do that he's like i was so angry i couldn't fight it's their country what are you doing over there you came yeah i flew all the way from florida yeah yeah well presumably from florida yeah um so uh bow's last attempt was in the spring of 1983 and it ended when thai police immediately arrested two of his commandos for possession of illegal radio transmitters so

Speaker 13 did nobody ask y'all to come, fam? No one wants you here. You did not need to be here.
Okay.

Speaker 13 This is not a success by any definition, but it got attention. People do pay attention to what Bo is doing.
He gets hauled before Congress in March of 1983.

Speaker 13 Now, Congress had concluded, as I said, in 1976, that there were no more POWs being held by Vietnam. So Bo is asked, what evidence do you have to counter these conclusions?

Speaker 13 And Bo answers, I have the same evidence that might be presented to a convention of clergymen that God exists.

Speaker 13 So like none? Wait.

Speaker 13 So like none? That's not a bar. So like no evidence? That's not a bar.

Speaker 13 I'm not anti, you know, faith or whatever, but we don't invade countries based on, well, we do actually a lot.

Speaker 13 You know what?

Speaker 13 That's actually often why we invade. Okay.

Speaker 13 Point to Bo.

Speaker 13 Now, in another interview, one of Bo's former volunteers, Tom Smith, said of Greites, I wouldn't cross the street with this guy. He's suffering from the early stages of burning a bush complex.

Speaker 13 Which, first off, it's not burning a bush. I don't understand why you said it that way.
No, it's not a bad burning. That's a real bush.
It's a burning bush.

Speaker 13 Yeah. You're not burning.
Maybe you think he was lighting a bush on fire to like fake it. I guess that could be good.
I don't know. Maybe it's some slang.
We just don't know. Maybe, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 13 This is some. There are more important things here.
Continue. Sure.
Yes, ma'am. Now, the attention that Bo drew mattered, though, to someone.
Well, to a group. Hollywood.

Speaker 13 Bo's story inspired and did legitimately inspire Rambo First Blood Part 2, in which John Rambo is sent to a secret U.S. base in Thailand to invade Vietnam on his own and rescue POWs.

Speaker 13 There's other movies that were inspired by Bo's story. Chuck Norris's Missing in Action series and the Gene Hackman film Uncommon Valor, R.I.P.

Speaker 13 Gene, were also inspired by Bo's fantasies of rescuing POWs overseas. And here's my favorite side fact: the character Hannibal Smith on the A team, inspired partly by Bo's.
Serious? Yeah, I know.

Speaker 13 Hannibal. And the real, number one, the real Hannibal would have found those POWs if they were there.
Absolutely.

Speaker 13 And number two, pity them fools.

Speaker 13 Absolutely. Absolutely.

Speaker 13 Sorry. I do love the A team.
You can tell Brava said it half the drink.

Speaker 13 This was like,

Speaker 13 this was like, he poured this like a glass of water.

Speaker 13 It was a thick pour. Like, shout out, whoever, like,

Speaker 13 you trying to put me up one day. It was as thick as the C4 necklace around that guy's neck.

Speaker 13 So,

Speaker 13 what?

Speaker 13 I didn't do it.

Speaker 13 You're supposed to say no.

Speaker 13 Yeah.

Speaker 13 No.

Speaker 13 All right, everybody, do your drink.

Speaker 13 So, after 1983, Bo seems to have largely and quietly given up on his plans to rescue these totally real USPOWs in order to become an influencer in the growing militia movement.

Speaker 13 He joined the Mormon church, start in a direct...

Speaker 13 No, no. You gotta wait for the sentence to finish.
Start in a direct-to-video rip-off of Charlie's Angels called Rescue Force.

Speaker 13 I know what everyone's watching tonight.

Speaker 13 And in 1988, agreed to run as the vice presidential candidate for the Populist Party. Anybody know the Populist Party?

Speaker 13 Anybody heard of these guys?

Speaker 13 Well, they were the political party of a group called the Liberty Lobby, which was founded by a guy we've talked about on Behind the Bastards, a Holocaust denier and Hitler fan, Willis Carteau.

Speaker 13 Right?

Speaker 14 There we go.

Speaker 13 Yeah.

Speaker 13 Big Willis.

Speaker 13 Willis Carteau is like, I mean, he is like the grandfather of American American fascism as an organized political movement that is like working within like mainstream conservatism and attempting to radicalize and influence mainstream conservatism, right?

Speaker 13 Carto is the guy. He was the dude who was a lot smarter than like the neo-Nazis.
He was like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 13 You got to dress this shit up a little bit if you're going to do it. And Cartow sees Bo, and he's like, charismatic,

Speaker 13 war hero, good at getting media attention. And Carto kind of scouts him to be the VP candidate, right? Bo says that he was poached directly by Willis Cartow.

Speaker 13 Although, Bo would then later claim that he was shocked and appalled when at that year's convention for the Populist Party, the presidential nomination was won by another fellow you might have heard of, David Duke.

Speaker 13 I tell you what, man, this Cartow guy must be really smiling in hell right now. Oh, he's having a great time.
He's having a great time.

Speaker 13 Yeah.

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Speaker 14 A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers. But it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught.
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Speaker 14 So why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster, Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer. The investigation into the most notorious killer in New York since the son of Sam.

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Speaker 13 Now, I will say this. In interviews, because Bogritz, as with other parts of his life, gives two different stories: the one that he gives at the time and the one that he gives years later.

Speaker 13 When people ask years later, he will be like, oh, I was horrified. The instant I heard that

Speaker 13 David Duke was the presidential candidate, within 48 hours, I had resigned.

Speaker 13 I would absolutely never have worked with such a racist.

Speaker 13 At the time, in news articles written immediately afterwards, Bo said he was okay with working with Duke because he met with David Duke and made him promise, a solemn promise, not to be a racist in the campaign, in the campaign, not to have a racist campaign.

Speaker 13 And David Duke said it wasn't going to be a racist campaign. What more can you ask? You know?

Speaker 13 He said he wasn't going to do it. Seems fine to make a man by his word.
He promised a Klansman's promise. Okay, well, you know.

Speaker 13 All right.

Speaker 13 Jesus Christ, Christian.

Speaker 13 So

Speaker 13 the good news is that after they lost,

Speaker 13 Bo complained to Cartow. You could stop that sentence right there.
The good news is that the good news is that they lost

Speaker 13 for now. Yeah.

Speaker 13 I know, right?

Speaker 13 Let's not think too much about what's happening online. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 13 So the good news is that Bo complained after they lost to Willis Cartow that David Duke did, quote, more harm to the populist party than Hitler would have.

Speaker 13 Now,

Speaker 13 this, I'm going to give you a second. This kind of insinuates to me that Bo would have been okay with running as the VP for Hitler.
Literally.

Speaker 13 Is that like maybe what he's saying a little bit?

Speaker 13 At first, I was like, okay, let him cook. Let me, like, what are you trying to say here? Like, help me understand.

Speaker 13 And get, because my first thought was, yeah, like,

Speaker 13 so you the beautiful.

Speaker 13 You might have run with Hitler if he promised not to run a racist campaign. As long as Hitler doesn't do a racist campaign.
Hitler's on his best behavior.

Speaker 13 We can go to Olive Garden. That's all.
I don't know why.

Speaker 13 Or go to Corral. Are you hungry or something? What's happening? I just think Hitler in Olive Garden is a funny image, Sophie.

Speaker 13 Because when you're there, you're family.

Speaker 13 So, bro, you are on a roll today.

Speaker 13 You think he was a super salad guy? I think salad.

Speaker 13 He was a salad guy, canonically. He's salad and unlimited breadsticks.
Definitely unlimited breadsticks.

Speaker 13 That man is not ordering a plate.

Speaker 13 I'm actually in the audience is a very dear friend of mine who we decided at one point, I'm not really sure why, to come in at Olive Garden one day on a Tuesday, the very minute they opened at 9 or 10 in the morning.

Speaker 13 Now, we were both wearing skirts that we'd sewn each other, and we both both had t-shirts that had our favorite conspiracy theory on them.

Speaker 13 I do forget what mine was, but Hidden just said Michael Jackson was murdered written on the front of a white t-shirt and Sharpie. And we proceeded to sit down.
Oh man. Now Olive Garden are you bro.

Speaker 13 The reason why we showed up is Olive Garden sells three liter bottles of wine. So we ordered two of them and then we nothing but six liters of wine and breadsticks.

Speaker 13 And the experiment, because we also brought with us a big roll of butcher paper and we started outlining the conspiracies that we like believed ruled the world.

Speaker 13 So we were drawing like a big flowchart talking about the Freemasons and all of these different conspiracies. And the goal was when will they stop serving us breadsticks? Yeah.

Speaker 13 And eventually it did get to the point where we got half a breadstick on a plate and I was like, yeah, it's probably time to bounce.

Speaker 13 Hey, let me ask y'all this. Let me ask y'all this.
As fans of this show, how many times have you thought to yourself, how has this man survived? Like, how are you still alive?

Speaker 13 I'll be thinking that, like, how are you still alive, fam? Yeah. I will say, as soon as we got back to my house, my friend who was in the audience vomited so much on the floor.

Speaker 13 I almost made it to the toilet. So,

Speaker 13 I'm just bragging a little bit. Pretty close.
Not at all. Not at all.

Speaker 13 Like, literally, like, three and a half feet further. Anyway, back to the story.
So.

Speaker 13 The good news is, well, not the good news.

Speaker 13 He runs again in 1992, this time as the presidential candidate for the Populist Party, and he does twice as well as David Duke, winning 0.1% of the national popular vote to Duke's 0.05.

Speaker 13 So, you know,

Speaker 13 not bad. That same year, 92, Beau played what would be arguably his one positive role in U.S.
political culture, which is when he kind of ended the Ruby Ridge standoff. So

Speaker 13 if you're vaguely familiar, there's this guy, Randy Weaver, and his friends in the Aryan nations.

Speaker 13 He gets paid by a dude who turns out to be an ATF agent to saw off some shotguns, and then they raid his house.

Speaker 13 And an agent is shot dead by, I forget which member of his group killed the agent, but an ATF agent's killed, and the ATF kills his young son, who's a child, and his wife, right?

Speaker 13 And a big state, this is called Ruby Ridge, huge standoff. This is like a seminal moment in the fucking militia movement.
It's a big deal.

Speaker 13 And because Greitz is a really famous figure in the militia movement,

Speaker 13 he gets like the, he basically, I think he reaches out directly to the feds actually. But anyway, he winds up flown in and talks to Randy Weaver and talks Weaver down.

Speaker 13 And the siege ends without further loss of life. This is a legitimate thing that Bo did, and it's good, right?

Speaker 13 It's good that more people, because Bo had, or Randy had his kids, like I'm not, I don't care that much about Randy, but he had another kid, right? Like, you don't want them to die.

Speaker 13 And that's good. This is the only good good thing that Bo does.
But he did do that.

Speaker 13 Now, because Randy Weaver had some close ties to the Aryan nations, and because Greitz's 1992 campaign was seen as a watershed moment for white supremacists in the U.S., Bo was accused of himself being a racist.

Speaker 13 Can you believe it?

Speaker 13 Now,

Speaker 13 Idaho State University professor James A. Hoe told the SPLC, the Southern Poverty Law Center, that as far as he could see, Greites wasn't, quote, an out-and-out racist.

Speaker 13 And Greites himself repeatedly emphasized that he had two Asian American children, so he couldn't. He was racist.

Speaker 13 Now, of course, he did. He was in them huts.
He was in that hut. He was in them huts.
Yeah. You can't be racist.
You in them huts.

Speaker 13 What the hell are we talking about, man? Now, I think it's accurate to say that Bo's primary motivation wasn't white supremacy.

Speaker 13 But it's kind of weird to say that he wasn't an out-and-out racist, given some comments he made about people of the Jewish faith.

Speaker 13 Per the SPLC, earlier this year, this is 2005, I think, in a lengthy diatribe falsely alleging Jewish control of the media and financial institutions, he wrote, Why is there such an intense effort toward Jewish control?

Speaker 13 I don't think it is right for such a small special interest group to control our nation. Elsewhere.
2005? Yeah, oldest manual. He's still alive.
God.

Speaker 13 Yeah, I know. It's a bummer.
Dang it, man. Elsewhere, he wrote: Do you see the sign, the scent, the stain, and mark of the beast on America today?

Speaker 13 Are you willing to submit and join this seed line of Satan? Look to those who are openly Antichrist.

Speaker 13 Who in the world is promoting abortion, pornography, pedophilia, godless laws, adultery, new age international banking, entertainment industry, and world publishing?

Speaker 13 Wherever you find a perversion of God's laws, you will find the worshipers of Baal with their roots still in Babylonian mysticism. What the hell?

Speaker 13 What are you talking about?

Speaker 13 He's not an out-and-out racist.

Speaker 13 This man named...

Speaker 13 Just even his racism being just broken, this man naming all the enemies

Speaker 13 of the Israelites. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 13 Look, I grew up in church, y'all. Well, he is arguing that that's

Speaker 13 Judaism is worshiping Baal. That's the that's what I'm trying to say.
I'm like, brass,

Speaker 13 never mind.

Speaker 13 We don't need to argue with Bo Greitz on theology.

Speaker 13 But the point of it is that, like, I mean, to be fair, in rural Idaho, that is kind of middle-of-the-road racism, right? Like, he's not an extremist for rural Idaho. He's a free trial,

Speaker 13 right?

Speaker 13 Yeah.

Speaker 13 In January of 1993, after losing his second presidential election, Bo pivoted to a new grift. He started Spike, S-P-I-K-E.

Speaker 13 Stop letting him name things. I know.
He's so annoying. Spike was a training program that stood for specially prepared individuals for key events.
That means nothing.

Speaker 13 Bro, I swear, I was so worried you was about to say, like, Spike TV. No, yeah, he found it Spike TV.
He found it Spike TV. I was like, yeah.

Speaker 13 So.

Speaker 13 The idea was he was bringing in experts to teach classes that would turn regular, you could like order VHS tapes off the internet, and it will turn you into a special forces operator if you watch enough of them, right?

Speaker 13 That's all that's standing in between you and being a Navy SEAL is watching enough VHS tapes. That's actually true.

Speaker 13 Buy the VHS tape cassette series I've got going on.

Speaker 13 I don't know what to call it. I didn't think of an acronym.
Sorry.

Speaker 13 Anyway, Spike winds up ultimately building a video library of about 100 hours of content that they would ship to anyone willing to pay.

Speaker 13 Now, by the early 90s, Bo had also relocated to the Pacific Northwest, where we all call home.

Speaker 13 Uh-huh, yeah, because this is coincidentally right around the same time as the so-called Northwest Imperative really gets going.

Speaker 13 This is the idea of moving white people en masse to this part of the country in order to create a new white homeland.

Speaker 13 Now, it starts to really pick up, it doesn't start at this, but it starts to really pick up steam in the 90s, right? And coincidentally, this is also when Bo launches a new business venture.

Speaker 13 What does he call it? Well, I'm telling you, he sells parcels of land in an intentional community for members of the militia movement called Almost Heaven. Stop letting him name things.

Speaker 13 Built as a constitutional covenant community, Almost Heaven was a way to take the underlying ideology of the Northwest imperative and extend it beyond stock Nazism to something palatable for a wider but still far-right audience.

Speaker 13 He claimed to have picked the location by studying maps of nuclear fallout and military bases to determine the safest place in America. Wow.
Hang it's where the land was cheapest.

Speaker 13 He announced the start of this new venture by crashing a Camilla town hall meeting in 1994 and declaring the public school system a cesspool and accusing the local government of being run by, and then he uses a slur for gay people, it starts with F.

Speaker 13 Local resident and activist Larry Nims later claimed, Greites came here and made a lot of noise. He told people that if they didn't like him, then get out of Dodge.

Speaker 13 And I'm thinking, who is he to tell people around here to get out of Dodge? He didn't even live live in Dodge yet.

Speaker 13 And Nims, my heart goes out. Nims is like a progressive activist in rural Idaho in the early 90s who's like, we'll talk about like Bo is the one who brought a lot of guys with guns out here, right?

Speaker 13 Like this has not been a problem before him, but he really makes like the current state of affairs is seriously influenced by Gritz, right? Amazing. Yeah.

Speaker 13 I said, I'm just learning. It's like fucking bossing.
Yeah.

Speaker 13 The Aryan nations had been out in Hayden Lake previously, so it's not entirely undergrads, but he does play a significant role in this because of how famous he is, right?

Speaker 13 I still just wonder, and it's like,

Speaker 13 this sounds like a joke, but I'm like, dead serious. I'm like, man,

Speaker 13 what do they eat?

Speaker 13 I'm like, Nazi? Oh, no, guys. Well, but like, if you were going to make an almost seven, because I'm like, you can think about

Speaker 13 it. So, yeah, so I used to live in Portland.
I lived in Portland a while back. You know what I'm saying? But, like,

Speaker 13 I mean, this is like the double double dragon joint with the like the

Speaker 13 park pop. Like, I'm like, there's so many good places to eat here.
I'm like, you don't want that? Like, no, no. He's living in the woods eating dried food that he bought off of, what's his name?

Speaker 13 Baker, the fucking

Speaker 13 weirdo.

Speaker 13 Yeah. Jim Baker.
Jim Baker. Thank you very much.

Speaker 13 I recently watched a movie, by the way, about him that came out

Speaker 13 with Andrew Garfield. Good.
Why y'all haven't got no like old bay? Like, just

Speaker 13 season too good. That's why it's almost heaven.
Almost heaven. It's almost heaven.
They forgot the season. It's low sodium.
Yeah.

Speaker 13 So. Wow.

Speaker 13 Almost heaven worked for a little while. Unfortunately, Bo and his business partner made the bad decision to buy their land as a common law trust.

Speaker 13 And I don't know a lot about this, but the way in which they did this made it very difficult for their customers to get titles. It's basically impossible.

Speaker 13 They couldn't get titles to their property in their names, and they couldn't get property insurance in their own names, which is a problem.

Speaker 13 A flurry of lawsuits followed by people who thought that they had been conned. Pretty true, accurately.

Speaker 13 And problems escalated as contractors started suing Greites and his business partner for failing to pay for road construction and other infrastructure work.

Speaker 13 They kind of took a leaf out of the Trump book, right? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 13 The slow collapse of Almost Heaven was escalated both by incompetence like this and the fact that, more than anything, Bo wanted to make money, not fund a right-wing revolution.

Speaker 13 And a lot of his critics on the right are like, Bo, aren't you making the army that's going to like liberate us? No?

Speaker 13 Oh.

Speaker 13 So the other problem is that Bo keeps taking calls throughout the late 90s from the FBI to try and talk down militia groups like the Montana Freemen, which ultimately alienated his third wife, Claudia, a former karate instructor.

Speaker 13 Did I miss the second wife? Yeah, that was the lady he met. The sex worker that he met in Vienna.
that did for shockingly didn't last no who knew I marriages that start in Vietnam

Speaker 13 Yeah, stay at Vietnam

Speaker 13 so like all those POWs

Speaker 13 by the end of 1998

Speaker 13 That was good. That was very good

Speaker 13 By the end of 1998 Bo's business partner had stolen nearly all of the money made by almost heaven and Claudia left him after 24 years of marriage. Claudia did 204 years of marriage.
She did 2040.

Speaker 13 She did a while. Girl.
She stuck it out. Bo attempted suicide by shooting himself in the chest in December of 1998, but he survived and is still alive today.
God.

Speaker 13 I don't have a happy ending here. He did shoot himself.
Again,

Speaker 13 for whatever reason, a through line in this guy's story is people shooting themselves in weird ways. The chest?

Speaker 13 I'm sorry, I'm not trying to backseat Kill Bog Reitz to Bog Reitz, but however. However, yes.

Speaker 13 All right, that concludes the Behind the Bastards episodes. Jeez.

Speaker 1 Behind the Bastards is a production of CoolZone Media.

Speaker 1 For more from CoolZone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 Behind the Bastards is now available on YouTube. New episodes every Wednesday and Friday.
Subscribe to our channel, youtube.com slash at behind the bastards.

Speaker 4 It's the gaming event of the year featuring T-Pain's Nappy Boy Grizzlies versus Neo's Gentleman's Gaming.

Speaker 5 It's a 4v4 matchup featuring Call of Duty, Tetris, Track Mania, Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3 Plus 4, and Tekken 8.

Speaker 8 Season 0 of the Global Gaming League is live streaming on YouTube and Twitch.

Speaker 10 Head over to globalgamingleague.com. Com, com.

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Speaker 14 A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers, but it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught. The answers were there, hidden in plain sight.

Speaker 14 So, why did it take so long to catch him?

Speaker 14 I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster: Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer: The Investigation into the Most Notorious Killer in New York, since the son of Sam. Available now.

Speaker 14 Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 This is an iHeart podcast.