Part Two: How The U.S. Government Used Aliens To Destroy a Man's Mind

Transcript

Speaker 2 Cool zone media.

Speaker 4 Oh man, welcome back to Behind the Bastards.

Speaker 7 All of you beautiful people, and also all of you ugly people. You know, all people are beautiful,

Speaker 11 except for I just kind of said that I didn't, that they're not.

Speaker 12 That was

Speaker 12 inside and outside beauty, you know.

Speaker 14 No, there's only one kind. There's only one kind.
I'm not going to say what it is.

Speaker 18 I'm not going to say which kind of beauty, but there's only one kind.

Speaker 12 That's fair.

Speaker 19 yeah it's elbows

Speaker 12 elbow

Speaker 12 i'm an elbow guy i'm an elbow guy yeah i'm starting the wiki feed of elbows it's just a bunch of like really blurry cropped photos of like elbows of different celebrities oh my god do you know there's no uh nerve endings in your elbow skin um that's the hottest thing about it yeah i know he's an elbow guy i had a friend in my comparative religions class that discovered weed and will make everybody bite his elbows the beginning of every class and oh that's a pervert that's a pervert.

Speaker 26 That's an elbow pervert right there.

Speaker 12 Yes, he's a, well, currently, he's a born-again meteorologist in North Carolina. So, yes, that is a pervert.

Speaker 3 No, I can see why you'd be scared that God is angry at you if you're that kind of pervert, because he is.

Speaker 30 But that makes it hotter for a lot of us.

Speaker 31 Brandy Posey, welcome back to the program.

Speaker 32 You want to plug anything at the top before we get too deep into elbows?

Speaker 12 Yeah, of course. Before we get elbow deep into

Speaker 12 historians, Bowen.

Speaker 31 Bowen with Robert and Brandy.

Speaker 12 Get it down, baby.

Speaker 12 Yeah,

Speaker 12 I run a comedy record label. It's called Burn This Records.
We seek to create equity between our artists in a way that most comedy labels don't.

Speaker 12 I have put out 17 albums last year. It was our first year.
This year we have about 15. It's digital only, and everybody is

Speaker 12 not only funny, but a good person, which is a Venn diagram that I wish more people in comedy paid attention to.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 25 Well, I think that's awesome.

Speaker 36 So check that out, everybody.

Speaker 37 And

Speaker 11 let's get, are you ready to get back into this story?

Speaker 38 Into these aliens?

Speaker 3 Into these aliens and spooks.

Speaker 12 Bow deep in aliens. Let's go.

Speaker 39 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 41 Speaking of bows, Richard Doty probably doesn't have nice elbows.

Speaker 5 He's our Air Force Office of Special Investigations.

Speaker 43 When you said bows, I was like, are we talking for your hair? Are we talking?

Speaker 43 are we talking speakers? Are we talking? There's so many.

Speaker 43 There's so many bows. Does he have no bows? No, no, no partners.

Speaker 45 What are we talking about?

Speaker 46 You know what?

Speaker 37 Speaking of bows, I will let people.

Speaker 6 This just added yesterday, I wound up just because of it happened as I was driving, like responding to a three-car crash.

Speaker 49 And there was a young woman in the middle car who was the only one who was hurt.

Speaker 47 And she was hurt because she had a beret in the back of her.

Speaker 3 A claw for

Speaker 3 the glue. Yeah, it was the claw-shaped one.

Speaker 43 Yes, which is a no-go.

Speaker 35 Anyway, don't wear those in the car.

Speaker 3 Don't wear those in a car.

Speaker 3 Do your hair.

Speaker 43 You can bring your claw clip in the car, but do not wear it while you're in the car because it should be bad, bad.

Speaker 51 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 12 No, I have a friend that is her sister's an ER nurse.

Speaker 12 And when she gets in her car, her whole backseat is full of those claws because when it gets in her car and she throws it, she just takes it out and throws it in the back seat.

Speaker 12 Because the number one thing that she sees in her ER room is that in women's skulls from car accidents.

Speaker 52 Thankfully, this lady seemed fine.

Speaker 43 I do like you saying Barrette, the way you said it. Barrette.

Speaker 3 You said it.

Speaker 35 So surgical.

Speaker 6 I thought that's what it was called. I thought that's what it was called.

Speaker 43 You're not wrong, but you're also wrong.

Speaker 14 Anyway, don't wear those.

Speaker 53 And also, if you're ever in a car accident and your head is hurt in any way, shape, or form, go get checked out by a professional.

Speaker 6 Don't just assume it's okay.

Speaker 50 You don't want to wind up like that famous guy's wife.

Speaker 3 No, you got one brain, man.

Speaker 51 Wasn't saying that to be

Speaker 25 flippant. It's a real problem.

Speaker 56 Yes.

Speaker 20 Go to the doctor.

Speaker 58 This is an iHeart podcast.

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Speaker 69 Three decades later, we've unearthed new evidence. Le Monstre, Season 2, is available now.
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Speaker 70 I'm Cheryl McCollum, host of the podcast Zone 7.

Speaker 71 Zone 7 ain't a place. It's a way of life.

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Speaker 3 So let's talk about fucking UFOs and a guy who didn't go to the doctor maybe enough or maybe went too much.

Speaker 84 I don't know.

Speaker 37 Richard Doty was born sometime around the immediate post-war period.

Speaker 85 He is, I haven't actually run into his exact, and that said, I didn't like go super hardcore digging into it.

Speaker 5 His father and his uncle Edward were his chief influences growing up, and both were military men.

Speaker 90 This guy is kind of, you know, an early, I think a

Speaker 91 mid-boomer, something like that.

Speaker 56 And

Speaker 30 his uncle Edward had been a career officer and meteorologist.

Speaker 6 In 1947, he'd been made chief of an Air Force weather research station working on something called the Atmospheric Divergence Project.

Speaker 85 Now, decades later, because Richard Dodie is not just the guy who's going to like

Speaker 85 spread a bunch of lies to Paul Benowitz that helps drive him mad.

Speaker 20 He also becomes like an alien influencer, claiming that, like, oh, no, I actually did also see real aliens, guys, and you can totally trust me.

Speaker 97 I know that, like, my whole thing is I lied to a guy about aliens for years, but also you can trust me when I tell you about aliens that I saw.

Speaker 12 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I lied because I also tell the truth.
That's how it works.

Speaker 3 Exactly, exactly.

Speaker 26 Now that I'm out, you can trust me.

Speaker 86 So Richard Doty, the spook and liar kind of guy,

Speaker 27 has, in kind of modern interviews, tells viewers that the atmospheric divergence project his uncle worked on was an attempt to, quote, change or neutralize gravity around a rocket to aid in space travel.

Speaker 40 Now, I haven't found the exact details in the specific project his uncle worked on, but I don't think this is true.

Speaker 102 Because while I did did not find the reports on that project, I did spend way too much of my research time reading through an Air Force handbook on meteorological techniques.

Speaker 15 And atmospheric divergence impacts the growth of storm systems in a bunch of ways that are obviously relevant to an Air Force meteorologist and not at all involved with fucking up gravity for space travel, right?

Speaker 108 This sounds like a normal meteorologist thing to do.

Speaker 109 Richard is a tall tail spinner, right?

Speaker 12 Yes, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 90 Yeah.

Speaker 17 And one of the issues with my sources, because two of the, I've got a bunch of articles in here that you can, you can find, but there's also two books that I read for this.

Speaker 112 One is Saucered Spooks and Kooks by Adam Go Reitley, and one is Project Beta by Greg Bishop.

Speaker 88 Both of them are very entertaining.

Speaker 87 I think Greg's book, Project Beta, is the better book.

Speaker 6 Both of these guys also believe in stuff I don't, particularly Bishop.

Speaker 85 Well, I think he, because I've caught, there's some stuff in Go Reitley's book that I caught that's just not factually, just slips up that he slipped up on.

Speaker 27 I think Bishop is more familiar with the subculture,

Speaker 114 but also Bishop definitely believes a bunch of shit.

Speaker 46 I don't, and he's, you can tell he kind of is excited at like talking with these spooks and spies.

Speaker 56 And I think he gives them a lot more credit than he ought to.

Speaker 3 Oh, got it.

Speaker 12 He's caught up in the romance of it all.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I think he is, not in a way that I, I think, makes his, his basic conclusions wrong or his book not worth reading.

Speaker 50 Again, I think this is, it's actually quite worth reading. It's quite a good book, and I think he's a good writer.

Speaker 86 I just don't, I'm not sympatico with him on all of the conclusions he comes to about these guys.

Speaker 96 I don't mean that as an insult to the man.

Speaker 18 Because, again, I liked this book a lot.

Speaker 47 So, but that is an issue when it comes to like trying to figure out shit here, right?

Speaker 83 And in Project Beta, Bishop does do about like the best of any of them at kind of questioning Doty by saying, perhaps this had something to do with weather control, or maybe it was something more prosaic.

Speaker 117 And like, it didn't.

Speaker 118 It wasn't weather control or gravity.

Speaker 30 It was just studying how this thing that affects meteorological forecasts work.

Speaker 118 Very normal thing for a meteorologist to do.

Speaker 18 Anyway, Doty joined the Air Force as a young man, just like his pa and uncle and per bishop.

Speaker 105 He entered in 1968 as a combat security policeman.

Speaker 8 Dodie would later claim he was, quote, tested and tracked throughout his career to become a base security guard and then a special agent for AFOC,

Speaker 6 the Air Force Office of Special Investigations.

Speaker 114 Now, that's how Doty tells the story.

Speaker 93 And I don't think he's, I don't, I think that's very silly because

Speaker 88 I'm not an expert on this, but I, I've known a number of people who were in different military intelligence roles.

Speaker 46 Uh, and I will tell you one thing that is very consistent.

Speaker 111 Base security guard is not a job that you are scouted for your entire career, right?

Speaker 6 Like, it's kind of a shit gig, actually.

Speaker 31 Like, nobody likes base security.

Speaker 12 And it's not really what most kids join wanting to do with their lives, right oh no it's like a step above base janitor but like also the same kind of yeah not to besmirch either job necessarily but also like you're not

Speaker 12 smashing security yeah yeah yeah yeah i'll smirch it some i'm smirching a little here i'll let you just a scooch of smirch will take you yeah yeah yeah and doty really wants people to believe that he was like

Speaker 122 he was scouted by the air force because like we need a guy we can trust to to do security for our very secret very real alien projects And like, wow,

Speaker 88 we noted from the beginning of his time in the Air Force that he had something special, right?

Speaker 27 And that's the way he talks about his background.

Speaker 12 This is very observant of a report, but with aliens. It feels like,

Speaker 3 yes, yes.

Speaker 53 And, you know, Afosy is more prestigious than base security.

Speaker 6 He eventually does, you know, he's a special agent.

Speaker 92 He's a sergeant, but he's also a special agent for this.

Speaker 53 And that is like a more prestigious role.

Speaker 85 But also, his job within Afosy isn't the most prestigious thing because other members of that agency are literally.

Speaker 41 This is like

Speaker 41 the time that he's in is one of like the high points for like spy shit anywhere in the world, like history, right?

Speaker 31 Other guys in Afosy are locked in life and death spy battles with like fucking got some of the best spies on planet Earth, right?

Speaker 40 You know, you've got foreign, you know, Russian and Chinese agents.

Speaker 46 Like there's some really interesting shit going on here.

Speaker 88 Dodi's job during this like great international game is to lie to people who believe they'd been molested by Martians.

Speaker 3 So he doesn't have the sexiest job within this sort of field, right?

Speaker 12 Not quite espionage that the Catholic game is.

Speaker 31 He's like James Bond, you know?

Speaker 3 There are some guys at Afosi doing some really, like, you talk about the ethics of it, but like interesting spy shit.

Speaker 19 I mean, it is interesting, but not in the same way.

Speaker 12 I'd like to see his Bond movie, though. I would like to see

Speaker 12 him. Yes.
Yeah, this low-rent bond is definitely a movie that I'd be into.

Speaker 111 Well, that's kind of the the premise of the Slow Horses TV show, right? Which does have, what's his name?

Speaker 40 Commissioner Gordon's in it, and he's great.

Speaker 32 I hate the show.

Speaker 85 I have mixed opinions on it, but he's always, always a charm.

Speaker 27 The original Commissioner, well, not the original, the one from the Nolan movies.

Speaker 6 I forget his name.

Speaker 39 Gary Oldman.

Speaker 85 So Dodie today claims that right after basic training, and again, this is also bullshit.

Speaker 113 He was taken to a room and shown footage of UFOs.

Speaker 95 And like, I don't believe that if there are aliens that the government has evidence of, obviously, there's some people that they let into that secret within military intelligence.

Speaker 99 It's not going to be anyone who just finished basic because you know who can finish basic training?

Speaker 21 Almost anyone.

Speaker 3 Like, that's part of the point. Yeah.

Speaker 12 Hey, 18-year-old without a frontal lobe that is fully formed. Do you want to see aliens right now? Like, unless it wouldn't fuck with you specifically, maybe, but like, not in a official

Speaker 12 constructive capacity for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 22 Hey, guy whose primary hobby is getting blackout drunk every single night of the week.

Speaker 98 Let's, let's show you an alien video.

Speaker 12 Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, all those push-ups you did? Guess what? Here's also aliens.
You passed the test. Yeah.

Speaker 55 Now, now, this is generally described as a test.

Speaker 27 And I think that's how like Bishop describes it in his book is that Dodie was being tested to see who, or at least Dodi claims he was being tested to see, you know, if he could be trusted with more detailed info about extraterrestrials.

Speaker 53 So I guess there's a possibility that maybe something like this did happen and it wasn't real aliens, but it it was just like, let's show a bunch of guys alien footage and like see who leaks it, right?

Speaker 25 That they saw something, you know, see who we can trust.

Speaker 108 Stuff, I don't think even then, I kind of doubt it because they weren't really doing that to guys who just finished BASIC.

Speaker 17 But shit like that is happening within different kinds of intelligence agencies.

Speaker 105 And it's not just aliens.

Speaker 127 They lie about,

Speaker 40 disinfo is given out to people.

Speaker 30 during this period of time in different intel roles just to see if they can be trusted, right?

Speaker 19 Like that's a thing that happens.

Speaker 92 Doty also claims that he served as a guard at Area 51, where he saw a UFO.

Speaker 16 Now, again, Area 51 is a real base.

Speaker 105 They are really doing experimental shit with planes there.

Speaker 102 This could be true.

Speaker 20 And in fact, the story he tells might be true, but not in a way he wants you to think.

Speaker 6 Because he claims while he's there, he sees them wheeling out this huge black disc that's some sort of craft that they're trying to get into the atmosphere that they like launch.

Speaker 6 And it doesn't look like anything he's ever seen. And his commanding officer takes him aside, right?

Speaker 48 Because he sees Dodie's fascinated in this.

Speaker 111 And here's the conversation that is related in the book, Project Beta.

Speaker 102 Airman Dodie, do you know what that craft was?

Speaker 15 Asked the officer. No, sir.

Speaker 30 That's what is generally known as a UFO, and it's not one of ours.

Speaker 15 It's on loan. Yes, sir.

Speaker 103 Someday, if you play your cards right, you will learn a lot more.

Speaker 9 But for now, you are to tell no one about this and you are not to discuss it with anyone.

Speaker 59 Is that clear?

Speaker 114 Dodie never talked about it again.

Speaker 33 And first off, obviously he did.

Speaker 121 You're telling us the story.

Speaker 3 So, like,

Speaker 12 from reading it in the book,

Speaker 12 it's definitely been recounted several times. But also,

Speaker 46 that could be basically true and have nothing to do with aliens.

Speaker 40 He could have been on guard duty, seen a weird craft that maybe, maybe like was a fucking French or Canadian thing that like we were doing tests on, right?

Speaker 27 So, it's on loan and his boss is just kind of like, hey, you know,

Speaker 103 maybe if you play your cards right, you'll, you'll get, we'll trust you with more stuff, right?

Speaker 50 And I, I, I don't know, I don't know if Dodie actually gets much more trust, but part this could be largely accurate, although I don't think that's likely.

Speaker 59 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 48 That said, like there's evidence he is working.

Speaker 92 He probably definitely does see experimental craft through his job for FOC later in his career because he's working at bases where they're doing that.

Speaker 42 That doesn't mean that he's told what it all is because they silo that info.

Speaker 83 Even if it's your job to stop people from finding out about these programs, you may not be told much about them because it's a need-to-know thing and you don't, right?

Speaker 41 You need to stop people from filming the weird craft.

Speaker 15 You don't need to know how it works.

Speaker 3 You don't need to know what it is, right?

Speaker 12 Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. They don't want curious people working on like lower levels of this stuff at all.
Like, they're not.

Speaker 12 They want you to just come in and be like, my job is to do this, and then have blinders up to everything else.

Speaker 3 I didn't see shit.

Speaker 53 This is why I've been saying this for years.

Speaker 10 The government should have all of its security done by street-level drug dealers.

Speaker 4 You know, those guys can keep their fucking mouth shut, you know?

Speaker 90 Absolutely.

Speaker 12 Ain't no snitches.

Speaker 12 Exactly.

Speaker 3 Exactly.

Speaker 34 Area 51, all security provided by Coke dealers.

Speaker 3 Just don't give them any Coke.

Speaker 31 Then they talk about everything.

Speaker 129 You got to keep them sober, otherwise it ends very badly.

Speaker 12 Ooh, man, what a fun place. Just a bunch of sober Coke dealers.

Speaker 31 Yeah, a bunch of sober Coke dealers in Area 51.

Speaker 106 This is going to end well.

Speaker 84 So there's evidence that a lot of, you know, Doty is a credulous guy.

Speaker 46 He does come to, at least he will claim to believe in this.

Speaker 83 He might just be fucking with everybody.

Speaker 49 I don't don't really know.

Speaker 42 But a lot of guys in his kind of level in different Intel agencies are believers themselves, right?

Speaker 15 So at any rate, Doty claims that his chief mentor in spy shit was a guy named Seeley Howard, a former insurance salesman.

Speaker 27 According to Doty, he gave him this sage advice early in his spook career.

Speaker 6 There are three sorts of people you will be dealing with.

Speaker 16 The first are the ones who will believe anything you say.

Speaker 92 The second are those who will, at least at first, refuse to believe you.

Speaker 10 The last is the group who won't believe you at first, but might be willing to be convinced.

Speaker 55 And what I find interesting about that is those last two groups are the same group of people.

Speaker 12 Yes.

Speaker 47 The people who don't believe you at first, but you can make them believe you.

Speaker 95 I don't see the difference.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 12 No, it's just one is just on a longer timeline and eventually.

Speaker 12 Yeah. Yeah, sure.

Speaker 96 So as soon as Paul Benowitz called the Air Force with results of his surveillance, they knew they might have a problem.

Speaker 87 The Air Force Office of Special Investigations very quickly became concerned that Paul Benowitz had stumbled onto a secret laser-based tracking system located in Kirtland.

Speaker 96 At least that's one of the things he might have stumbled on.

Speaker 6 Greg Bishop, who wrote Project Beta, noted that these transmissions sounded like gibberish language that had been distorted and sped up.

Speaker 112 Or to a true believer like Paul, they sounded like alien speech.

Speaker 53 Edwards, chief of Kirtland-based security, had previously described Doty to a friend at the NSA as his drug man.

Speaker 11 And so that's less cool than it sounds, as Greg Bishop writes.

Speaker 53 The duty simply involved checking for allegations of illegal drug use on the base, but it was only one of Agent Doty's minor assignments.

Speaker 6 The FOC has jurisdiction over all criminal and security investigations at Air Force facilities.

Speaker 16 Most FOC agents must carry a high-security clearance.

Speaker 10 Agents need to know what they are protecting so that security threats can be recognized quickly.

Speaker 27 Benowitz carefully described to Doty what he had seen and recorded, all while trying to keep what he really thought was going on to himself for the moment.

Speaker 122 moment.

Speaker 6 And this is where I think Bishop is too credulous, because again, think back to Roswell.

Speaker 55 The first guy, like, they don't tell the people who are looking and responding to that crashed balloon that Project Mogul exists.

Speaker 83 It's very common for these guys not to be in the loop about stuff, right?

Speaker 6 Especially since he's just a sergeant, you know?

Speaker 9 Like, he's not a super high-level guy here.

Speaker 90 That said, Dodie is kind of sent to talk to Benowitz, and he's like, hey, uh, you know, why don't you come to the base and we can talk about your research?

Speaker 48 And so Paul heads to the base and he shows Dodie what he's got.

Speaker 27 And Dodie is initially kind of, you know, bored.

Speaker 109 And then he perks up when Paul starts to show him his radio array.

Speaker 15 He returns to the base to talk with some NSA colleagues about bringing an expert out to Paul's home to see what he'd built.

Speaker 109 So he visits Paul at his house and this time with an actual like

Speaker 49 scientist in tow, another engineer, a guy named Lou Miles.

Speaker 124 And the fact that Paul has now been invited to the base to talk, he's he's had, you know, a guy come over to his house from Air Force Intelligence.

Speaker 85 Paul is like, takes this as evidence that, like, I'm on the right track and the Air Force supports me.

Speaker 108 I'm now kind of helping, looking, helping the Air Force find evidence that there's aliens.

Speaker 125 You know, I kind of got my ex-Files job because they think I'm so cool and smart.

Speaker 12 A buddy.

Speaker 3 I know.

Speaker 95 It's really sick because he's just trying to help, you know?

Speaker 12 Yeah, no, he is just trying to help.

Speaker 120 He just wants to keep his country safe.

Speaker 12 Oh, they're sizing you a buddy, to see what kind of a threat you are.

Speaker 117 Oh, no, my man. No, not at all.

Speaker 107 So the expert Dodie brings to Paul's home is Lou Miles.

Speaker 105 Like Valdez, that state trooper, Miles was a guy who wanted to believe.

Speaker 111 He had been involved to an extent with Project Blue Book, which was like a multi-year Air Force investigation into UFOs.

Speaker 96 It's one of the big seminal moments in early UFO history, right?

Speaker 6 He was also now the chief scientist for Kirtland's test center.

Speaker 30 So he knew the reality behind a lot of the strange aerial phenomena that guys like Paul credited to aliens.

Speaker 22 So he's both like open to believing, but also like, oh, but I know that I know what you're actually seeing.

Speaker 19 And it's not aliens.

Speaker 3 It's this thing that we're working on.

Speaker 47 Nevertheless, he was good at talking to Binowitz while Dodie hung back and took photos with a hidden camera for the NSA.

Speaker 55 Who was also involved in this?

Speaker 40 It's kind of murky exactly where FOC begins and the NSA ends.

Speaker 85 And like, there's some evidence the CIA is also gets involved.

Speaker 111 There's like a lot of people are kind of interested in what Paul is doing.

Speaker 11 But no one's interested in Paul's evidence of alien interference.

Speaker 125 They're again worried about like interested as whether or not he's actually like gotten any encrypted shit and they also think he might be useful because being an actually brilliant engineer working in the aerospace industry and someone who goes to these UFO conventions, he's kind of trusted within the UFO community.

Speaker 85 So if they want to get a lot of people to like pay attention to something other than the real shady shit they're doing at Kirtland, he might be able to convince them, right?

Speaker 5 He might be able to distract attention away from the real shit that's being done that they want to hide.

Speaker 112 So yeah, for the next year, Paul waits for updates from the military and he continues his special interest exploring extraterrestrial phenomena.

Speaker 96 In May of the next year, 1980, a 26-year-old woman named Myrna Hansen called the state police to claim that she and her six-year-old had been accosted by alien visitors near Eagle Nest, New Mexico.

Speaker 27 The state troopers basically shrugged and handed the case over to the only cop they knew who dealt with this sort of shit, Gabe Valdez.

Speaker 13 Yep.

Speaker 53 If I'm remembering correctly, I believe Valdez's attitude is that Myrna was probably a plant.

Speaker 26 That's not clear to me.

Speaker 124 Again, a lot of sketchy shit's going on here.

Speaker 12 Immediately doesn't trust the woman. Okay, good.

Speaker 129 Well, but also,

Speaker 3 this kind of shit was going on, so I don't know. Yeah.

Speaker 12 No, it also, he's like, man, the six-year-old fucking with me.

Speaker 3 Right, right.

Speaker 24 So, Gabe calls our boy Paul and they go off to meet Myrna.

Speaker 105 Now, by the start of the 80s, the science of hypnotic regression, which is not really a science, had taken off among people who believed or wanted to believe that they had been abducted by aliens, right?

Speaker 12 So, let me turn you into a chicken first and then tell me if you saw the aliens or not.

Speaker 9 Yeah, yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to hypnotize you and then walk you, like say a bunch of leading things that get you to tell a fun alien story, right?

Speaker 56 Yeah.

Speaker 6 Um, you know, a lot of this stuff is some similar shit's happening with like the satanic panic.

Speaker 112 We're just into the idea.

Speaker 27 I mean, there's a lot of this in the X-Files, right?

Speaker 85 This idea that people have memories locked away that this psychologist or psychiatrist who definitely doesn't ever wind up fucking his patients can unlock.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, people aren't super cool.

Speaker 12 Yeah, people aren't susceptible to being influenced to say things to

Speaker 12 please somebody either.

Speaker 95 Yes, nothing sketchy here whatsoever.

Speaker 1 Definitely not.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 6 Speaking of things that aren't sketchy, the sponsors of this podcast

Speaker 3 never.

Speaker 6 Never.

Speaker 83 They would never do anything illegal.

Speaker 85 Although we did just find out that what's that food box company has child labor.

Speaker 3 So which one?

Speaker 12 I'd be curious.

Speaker 52 I don't know. Sophie, which one was it?

Speaker 3 I don't remember.

Speaker 24 One of them.

Speaker 104 Anyway, here's ads.

Speaker 60 A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers, But it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught.

Speaker 76 We started this podcast to teach the importance of teamwork in solving these crazy crimes.

Speaker 75 Come join us in learning from detectives, prosecutors, authors, canine handlers, forensic experts, and most importantly, victims' family members.

Speaker 69 In 1997, in Belgium, 37 female body parts placed in 15 trash bags were found at dump sites with evocative names like The Path of Worry, Dump Road, and Fear Creek.

Speaker 131 Investigators made a new discovery yesterday afternoon of the torso of a woman. Investigators believe it is the work of a serial killer.

Speaker 69 Despite a sprawling investigation, including assistance from the American FBI, the murders have never been solved. Three decades later, we've unearthed new evidence and new suspects.

Speaker 132 We felt like we were in the presence of someone who was going to the grave with nightmarish secrets.

Speaker 69 From Tenderfoot TV and iHeart Podcasts, this is Le Mansre Season 2: The Butcher of Moss, available now. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 3 Malcolm Glaubau here.

Speaker 133 This season on Revisionist History, we're going back to the spring of 1988 to a town in northwest Alabama where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control.

Speaker 135 35 years.

Speaker 135 That's how long Elizabeth Sennett's family waited for justice to occur.

Speaker 135 35 long years.

Speaker 136 I want to figure out why this case went on for as long as it did, why it took so many bizarre and unsettling turns along the way, and why, despite our best efforts to resolve suffering, we all too often make suffering worse.

Speaker 137 He would say to himself, turn to the right, to the victim's family, and apologize. Turn to the left, tell my family I love them.

Speaker 137 So he would have this little practice: to the right, I'm sorry, to the left, I love you.

Speaker 133 From Revisionist History, this is the Alabama Murders.

Speaker 134 Listen to Revisionist History, The Alabama Murders on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 103 We're back.

Speaker 55 Sponsors love that sort of thing.

Speaker 12 Hey, that's their problem for going dynamic.

Speaker 1 That's right. That's right.

Speaker 4 So, Gabe called our boy Paul, and off they went to meet Myrna.

Speaker 51 Benowitz, who is working for that civilian organization, not working for, but is like one of the head guys at Apro, that civilian looking into UFO things and like is also working with this actual sheriff's deputy uh partners he and and uh gabe partner with a university of wyoming professor who's lit who's an ex a quote-unquote expert in hypnotic regression and this guy's name is literally dr leo sprinkle

Speaker 126 Fuck yeah. Great stuff.

Speaker 3 What a name.

Speaker 120 Great stuff.

Speaker 12 Man, good on you, Leo, for making it to adulthood.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's a real boy named Sue situation.

Speaker 12 Leonardo Sprinkle.

Speaker 121 Leonardo Sprinkle.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 32 Oh, fuck me.

Speaker 27 So in his book, Saucer, Spooks, and Kooks, Adam Go rightly summarizes: Binowitz, by this time, had convinced himself that the ETs were transmitting a mind control beam to repress Myrna Hansen's memories.

Speaker 15 Binowitz believed that the E.T.s were likely beaming him in an attempt to disrupt his ongoing UFO probe.

Speaker 6 To thwart this extraterrestrial electronic harassment, Binowitz arranged for Hansen's regression to take place in his 1979 Lincoln town car with multiple sheets of aluminum foil draped over the windows to deflect the dreaded alien beams.

Speaker 85 Binowitz connected these perceived beams to cattle mutilations.

Speaker 3 It's so cool. I love this shit.

Speaker 1 I love it.

Speaker 121 He's fucking wrapping his car in 10.

Speaker 129 No, he sees it. The aliens are blocking our memory with the beads.

Speaker 12 He's married, right? Is he a young wife?

Speaker 126 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 11 He's got a wife, and she is a long-suffering.

Speaker 37 I don't know much about her, but a saint.

Speaker 32 I'll say that much.

Speaker 3 No, the power of the woman.

Speaker 31 She's putting up with a lot.

Speaker 12 I know the power of disassociation this woman is capable of. Man, oh, yeah.
It's like, honey, I need the car to go to the grocery store. No, I have to go interview this woman.

Speaker 12 I just got the aluminum cable.

Speaker 3 Where's your tinfoil?

Speaker 12 Get the tin foil out. Babe, we need it for the potatoes tonight.
Absolutely not. I need it to protect us from aliens.

Speaker 39 And again, he's been talking to Dodie for months at this point.

Speaker 11 And Dodie is kind of just like every, he's yes-anding everything Paul says, right?

Speaker 29 Like, oh, yeah, that sounds real, Paul. Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah, no, no, aluminum foil.

Speaker 29 Great idea, man. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 12 is this where aluminum foil comes from? Is this like the

Speaker 12 origin of that? Like, this will block waves? Part of it, yeah.

Speaker 113 I don't know that Paul is the only guy who starts it, but this is like, he is on the ground floor of the aluminum foil will stop the aliens from reading your mind thing.

Speaker 25 Yes, that's definitely fair to say.

Speaker 6 He's among the, because he's very influential in this culture, too. Yes.

Speaker 6 So we can see at this point, he's already kind of starting to go over the edge right yeah paul begins writing analysis of myrna's hypnotic regression regression sessions replete with lines like the alien does all caps kill with the beam generally

Speaker 12 generally huh kill with the beam huh yeah we're those bodies we're in those bodies poly

Speaker 27 okay paul yeah now The reality is that Hansen had just brought up a bunch of existent UFO lore during her sessions, right?

Speaker 6 She complained about missing time. She described being picked up in a tractor beam.
She claimed an alien crewman had brandished a silver knife before cutting into a cow's chest.

Speaker 87 And she eventually described being taken to an underground base where a metallic device was put inside her brain.

Speaker 3 Now,

Speaker 53 this is part of why there's some theorizing that, like, maybe she was a plant.

Speaker 53 This is when...

Speaker 8 And Paul is the guy who really does more than anyone to start this.

Speaker 10 This is when you start getting these

Speaker 138 UFO conspiracies about underground bases.

Speaker 30 And they're usually either like bases that our military shares with the aliens, or maybe the aliens run the base.

Speaker 88 You know, there's some stories about them having fights with the army and whatnot, and these bases underground.

Speaker 6 But the real thing behind this is that a bunch of people in Albuquerque had watched, and like, this is something that Paul would have seen from his house, as the Air Force dug this massive underground nuclear storage space, like the largest underground weapons storage base ever, or at least at that point in time.

Speaker 103 And so people are like wondering, well, what's this really for?

Speaker 121 And the answer is pretty evil, like it's for nukes, but yeah, yeah, it's a whole full of nukes.

Speaker 124 There's a lot of theories as to why.

Speaker 6 So Hansen also claimed per Binowitz that she had picked up an STD described as a vaginal disease like Streptococcybacillus from the aliens.

Speaker 17 Paul wrote to his colleagues at the volunteer alien hunting group that, quote, we are trying to culture it.

Speaker 55 No luck as yet also it has evaded all of our known antibiotics with penicillin

Speaker 101 damn nobody's doing sex ed on these aliens that's the problem they gotta learn to wrap it up whatever it is you gotta wrap it up though paul you are an electrical engineer i don't think that you are qualified to say that it's an un like it can't be like it's it's a it's gotta be an alien std maybe it's a normal one maybe it's just a normal one yeah exactly you're not a doctor paul you should first off you should be giving this lady antibiotics, Paul.

Speaker 3 You're again, not a doctor.

Speaker 1 You're really not.

Speaker 49 So he also revealed that Myrna was being, quote, badly beaten on by the alien with their beams 24 hours a day.

Speaker 123 And once Myrna starts talking to him about how she's just constantly being beam attacked, Paul starts to believe that he too is being beaten on with beams.

Speaker 6 And he urges his colleagues who plan to do regression work to lock themselves in a car in a garage coated with three layers of aluminum foil to protect themselves from the beams.

Speaker 15 He's doing well is what you'd say at this point.

Speaker 118 He's doing great.

Speaker 33 Paul, our boy Paul, very, very healthy, making rational choices.

Speaker 3 Oh, Paul.

Speaker 12 Paul, you've fallen so far. You were doing so good, buddy.

Speaker 18 So Dodie is occasionally checking in with Paul, but he's also spending the intervening months, you know, 79, early 1980, working on another mark.

Speaker 42 And this guy is a journalist or a quote-unquote journalist, depending on how you see it, with a reputation for he is considered to be one of the more rigorous guys within the UFO community by the UFO community.

Speaker 114 Take of that what you will. His name is George Moore.

Speaker 55 At least that's how he's described in Project Beta.

Speaker 23 But also, the author of Project Beta really likes this guy and is like impressed by him.

Speaker 42 So I don't feel the same way about Moore.

Speaker 9 Go Reitley's narrative makes him out to be like less, more of like one of an interchangeable number of UFO kind of weirdos, although one who is, you know,

Speaker 87 reached out to by the government to spread disinfo.

Speaker 29 And Moore claims that like he's down with this, right?

Speaker 46 And the reason we're talking about him is that he is the co-author of that book, that first big book that gets like

Speaker 51 UFOs back in vogue, right?

Speaker 22 He's interviewing that guy from Roswell.

Speaker 112 He's one of the guys who helps make Roswell into like the thing that it is in our culture, right?

Speaker 6 He's written a bunch of other stuff.

Speaker 111 You know, he's a very influential figure within this field.

Speaker 119 And that inspires Dodie and a colleague to approach him.

Speaker 88 In July of 1980, Jim Lorenzen of Apro receives a letter with no return address claiming to tell the story of an 18-year-old Civil Air Patrol member who had sighted a UFO and then been threatened by a man in black named Mr.

Speaker 100 Huck.

Speaker 85 The young man had reported this to a Mr.

Speaker 119 Dobie at Afosci, right?

Speaker 92 That's the Air Force.

Speaker 107 That's Dodie's agency.

Speaker 6 So Lorenzen gets this letter and he thinks it's weird and he sends it to Bill Mitchell, who's the best journalist he knows, or Bill Moore, who's the best journalist he knows.

Speaker 27 And Moore is immediately like, oh, this is bullshit.

Speaker 38 And he knows it because he does

Speaker 119 some actual journalism.

Speaker 52 Like he reaches out to the named witness and the witness is like, well, yeah, I saw some like weird lights, but I never was, I was never threatened by a man in black.

Speaker 105 Like none of the rest of this is real.

Speaker 12 The tiniest amount of journalism uh-huh yeah it really that's all it takes in a lot of cases

Speaker 12 let me just double check this

Speaker 55 just ask this guy if this happened um the letter was actually the creation of doty and his colleagues at aphosci they were hoping to rope in somebody like uh bill right somebody smart enough to have credibility in the subculture but also who might fall for a fake right they didn't succeed in tricking him but they continued phishing in september of 1980 more finished a blockbuster book, The Roswell Incident, which is, yeah, that's one of the things that radiates public entrance.

Speaker 53 So military intelligence gets very interested after this point.

Speaker 114 And while he's doing his book tour, he keeps getting calls at radio stations where, like, guys will be like, hey, do you want to have a meeting?

Speaker 27 You know, I'm from a government intel agency and I'd like to talk.

Speaker 15 And he is, he eventually agrees and he's met by a man who dresses and acts very much like a spy in the movie.

Speaker 49 Now, my opinion on what's happening here is that there's some two-way feedback.

Speaker 27 Moore desperately wants to be a journalist working on classified fringe, like X-Files kind of stories, right?

Speaker 85 And he wants to feel like he's part of this great game of spies and spooks.

Speaker 27 Now, the spooks he's talking to, these are real spies, but they're not the high-level operators working to unearth, you know, Russian nuclear secrets or doing the fucking cool shit that they make movies about.

Speaker 107 They're some enlisted guys at the Air Force, mostly, tasked with lying to rubes to cover up flight testing.

Speaker 15 Right.

Speaker 3 And they, here's the thing.

Speaker 53 This is like a two-way street because they also want to feel like they're doing cool spy shit.

Speaker 3 Right.

Speaker 102 And so Dodie and George Moore, part of what they're both doing, because they're both much more rational than Paul is at this point.

Speaker 23 They're kind of LARPing together, in my opinion, you know?

Speaker 51 They're kind of like, well, Dodie, I get to play like I'm this very serious man in black.

Speaker 27 And Moore is like, and I get to play like I'm fucking Fox Mulder almost, right?

Speaker 20 You know, the show's out in the air at this point, but that's what they're both getting here, right?

Speaker 9 And Moore is offered a deal by, by Doty and a colleague.

Speaker 24 Help us out with some odd jobs, right?

Speaker 53 We need some like deniable work that you can do, and we'll pass you some classified UFO information, right?

Speaker 12 Oh, I see. Got it.
That's how that, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 27 And the first dossier that Dotie and his friend hand over is bullshit.

Speaker 15 Like George, again, does some minor reporting and is able to figure this out.

Speaker 83 From Bishop's book, quote, after a few preliminaries, the question started.

Speaker 113 Well, what did you discover?

Speaker 6 Moore threw the paper down on the table and, trying to sound less annoyed than he actually was, replied, This whole mess is a lie.

Speaker 113 None of these people exist.

Speaker 27 The agent and Dodie looked at each other and smiled.

Speaker 22 What's going on? asked Moore.

Speaker 27 You passed the test, said the man, whom he would eventually refer to with the code name Falcon.

Speaker 84 Within a few years, Moore and his colleagues would begin to assign code names to their growing coterie of contacts so that they could talk freely about developments without fear of identification if they were overheard.

Speaker 1 And,

Speaker 126 you know, maybe this was a test.

Speaker 34 I think it's likelier that they were like, okay, so we figured out this is bullshit.

Speaker 16 Let's just tell him that that was a test and then, you know, stroke his ego and he'll believe the next thing we say, maybe, right?

Speaker 12 Yeah, yeah, exactly. We're just we're gonna keep refining from our side until we actually make him a believer and he'll feel great because he's passed all these tests.

Speaker 12 So he's right, gonna start looking less and less because of how smart he believes he is, too.

Speaker 3 Yeah, right.

Speaker 85 And they hand him some shit, and he'll admit, like, I knew some of what I was putting out into the UFO community was bunk, but I think some of it's real too.

Speaker 98 And like,

Speaker 33 he's being a shady character here as well.

Speaker 85 Now, unlike Paul Benowitz, George is a pretty, I think, a mentally resilient guy.

Speaker 16 Like, he definitely is a believer to some extent, but I think he also, I don't think he

Speaker 113 takes it as seriously as Paul does, right?

Speaker 111 I don't think this is breaking his brain.

Speaker 9 I think he's having a good time, right?

Speaker 95 My favorite story from Moore is that Dodie and his partner apparently thought Moore might be gay and decided to test him by like one day when they're hanging out, they like park the car and

Speaker 4 Moore is like, and a bunch of men start walking past the car wearing tight pants or high heels and dresses that like fit really weird.

Speaker 127 And like it doesn't seem like they would like are comfortable in.

Speaker 92 And apparently this is a test because they want him to troll the gay bars of Santa Monica looking for a guy that the Afo C wants for some reason.

Speaker 12 Oh my God.

Speaker 12 It was a slow day in the office when they came up with that one. They were just like, ah, well, we got to do something this weekend, right? All right.

Speaker 38 So Dodi and his colleagues, they get some of what they want out of Moore, right?

Speaker 6 He launders some info into the UFO community, some of the disinfo they want to distract from their real programs.

Speaker 21 But he's also not,

Speaker 53 he's a little too smart.

Speaker 105 Right.

Speaker 85 He's not willing to destroy himself publicly as much as was necessary for the kind of misinformation that they wanted to get out.

Speaker 109 And this is where Paul Benowitz re-enters the story.

Speaker 97 It is obvious by 80, 81 that this is a guy who is not well, but also he's respected.

Speaker 110 And he is a guy who, because of his tech acumen, might endanger some top secret operations.

Speaker 55 So

Speaker 55 the decision was basically made: hey, let's fuck him up a little, right?

Speaker 47 Paul gets invited to give a speech at Kirtland, and most of the attendees leave before he's done.

Speaker 95 But like, one of them is like, oh, this is really interesting stuff, Paul. And that just lights his ego on fire.

Speaker 37 Paul, so happy to hear this.

Speaker 85 He applies for Air Force grants, which he does not receive, but he apparently gets an NSA grant.

Speaker 95 And I think that's maybe the NSA fucking with him because some real fuckery is about to happen here.

Speaker 12 Hey, I love an ironic grant.

Speaker 12 Ironic grant money still spends.

Speaker 128 It's a little more messed up than even that.

Speaker 39 Dodie is now spending hours with Paul Benowitz, and he claims that they became friends and that he found the orders he received to spread lies to Paul personally distasteful.

Speaker 85 If you watch the documentary Mirageman, you'll see a lot of Doty.

Speaker 110 And he does express a degree of what kind of feels like real regret over what he did to Paul.

Speaker 27 He is also a spy and a professional liar.

Speaker 48 So I don't know that I believe he's really, or he just knows that he needs to perform regret, right?

Speaker 3 I think that's probably likelier. Yeah.

Speaker 22 So,

Speaker 22 God.

Speaker 12 What do you think like the

Speaker 12 internal notes of a person person that constantly lies are like is it just like a notebook? Is it like a series of post-its around their house? How do you keep that shit straight?

Speaker 12 It sounds exhausting.

Speaker 27 I, I don't, you know, one of the things that you get when you like read these stories and like the way in which a lot of the writers and quote unquote journalists who cover this stuff, the degree of credulity they have to these guys' stories,

Speaker 20 the thing that becomes clear to me is like, oh,

Speaker 85 this is your first time being lied to by a weirdo in the desert.

Speaker 85 Like I spent a lot of my childhood and like, or not childhood, my young adulthood, in like off-grid places, just letting listening to like lies from dudes at bars and stuff.

Speaker 16 I've heard a lot of crazy stories that definitely aren't true, and that's a ton of fun.

Speaker 85 But I think some of these, these people just like decide they want to live as if that's real.

Speaker 12 You know, that's fair. Yeah.
God, how many time, how many timeshares do you think they own?

Speaker 31 It feels like oh my god, these guys are, these guys are very, very vulnerable to timeshares.

Speaker 19 So on some of his early visits to hang with Paul, he's shown a complex computer system, Doty is, that Benowitz had constructed and had his employees help him build to translate these encrypted messages, right?

Speaker 37 And it's unclear what's actually happening.

Speaker 27 Is he just getting random static and then like running it through an algorithm to like create text based on that and then kind of going through it almost like it's one of those like word puzzles and and just like picking up words out of a feed of words that like and then saying like oh this is you know a message from the aliens right

Speaker 85 because some people will say like it looked like gibberish to me but he would pull out you know five or six words from this like paragraph of nonsense and say like this is the real message right yeah um

Speaker 27 and this is a quote from doty uh benowitz had the computer rigged up to antennas on his roof that included a small microwave dish and he would look at the screen and there would be images on the screen that certainly wasn't an alien.

Speaker 11 But he was convinced that it was.

Speaker 29 I would actually tell him, I don't see anything.

Speaker 16 And he said, I see it and I can hear them.

Speaker 18 And he had these earphones that he would put on.

Speaker 27 And he said, I can hear them talking.

Speaker 32 And I asked Paul, what language are they speaking?

Speaker 6 He said, They're speaking their language.

Speaker 46 And he wrote a hundred-page document about the alien language.

Speaker 27 When he went out to Kirtland to give his presentation to all these generals, he presented them with that information.

Speaker 15 So the NSA, and this is probably where the NSA gets heavily involved, and maybe why they give him that grant, because a plan gets hatched to gift Paul with a new computer, right?

Speaker 53 That he's told is a gift from Afosi.

Speaker 11 Some accounts, maybe Dodi offered him the machine.

Speaker 105 Other, the story you'll hear more often is that an Air Force consultant named Dr.

Speaker 115 J.

Speaker 7 Alan Hynek, who's a former scientific advisor for Project Blue Book and a big guy in the alien community now.

Speaker 48 I think he denies this, but you'll hear that too.

Speaker 46 We don't really know exactly what happened here because I've also heard like the NSA did it.

Speaker 114 I've heard that the Air Force did it.

Speaker 85 Adam Go rightly notes: this computer had been provided at the behest of the U.S.

Speaker 10 Air Force, and embedded in the software was a code that generated an alien language.

Speaker 123 With the aid of the Air Force computer, Benowitz claimed he established constant direct communications with the alien using a form of hex decimal code with graphics and printout.

Speaker 3 Now,

Speaker 52 so what's happening here probably

Speaker 51 is that

Speaker 6 because some versions of the story say that the NSA was literally set up across the street in a rented house, sending messages directly to Paul's computer.

Speaker 30 I think it was maybe a little less direct than that, but basically he's got this machine that's probably programmed to allow them to send him fake messages from aliens.

Speaker 53 And so he starts getting messages like this.

Speaker 103 Ground, ground, women of earth are needed.

Speaker 104 Flexible.

Speaker 6 The next just charges.

Speaker 91 Our ship. Women do not command.
The north among us.

Speaker 8 You have many friends. Water, very short.

Speaker 11 Resist all attempts at alteration.

Speaker 8 Listen, orange, make peace.

Speaker 38 And Paul doesn't know what to make of this.

Speaker 53 He becomes convinced actually that this is the aliens trying to trick him into thinking that they're peaceful, but he knows they're really dangerous.

Speaker 12 He's so close. He's getting there.

Speaker 3 Yeah, he's getting there. Yeah.

Speaker 10 Greg Valdez, who's Gabe's son, visited Benowitz during this period, and he described seeing the computer in use.

Speaker 9 He would type a question into the computer in a very complex for the time period form of a computer program, much like a current email.

Speaker 6 Much to everyone's surprise, he would get an answer to the questions he was asking. Sometimes he would get an immediate response, and sometimes it would take several minutes.

Speaker 53 He would even receive very crude and basic pictures or graphics on his computer of these aliens.

Speaker 6 Some of these pictures resembled birds with reptile features, and some resembled reptiles with bird features.

Speaker 6 During this question and answer session, Gabe instructed Paul to ask the simple question: where are you from?

Speaker 6 Paul already knew the answer to the question because he had already asked the question, and he answered it verbally when a response came back on the computer.

Speaker 10 It simply said the Zetta Reticuli star system.

Speaker 55 So

Speaker 31 they're now really fucking with this guy in a way that's very irresponsible.

Speaker 12 I mean, who is? I want to know who is writing this stuff because that's the best job on the base.

Speaker 12 Right.

Speaker 3 Maybe Dodi.

Speaker 21 It's probably a team of guys, right?

Speaker 85 Because Dodi, there's some evidence he was working with the NSA.

Speaker 20 So maybe it's multiple, it's almost certainly multiple people feeding him bullshit.

Speaker 56 Yeah.

Speaker 102 But yeah, the result is that Paul grows convinced that the U.S.

Speaker 6 government has signed a treaty with aliens, perhaps to breed some sort of hybrids, and they've been given real estate in an underground base near Dulce, New Mexico.

Speaker 27 This played the happy dual role of covering up ongoing weird experiments around Dulce.

Speaker 16 You know, there's that poison gas fucking hole

Speaker 107 and diverting the attention of Paul and others away from Kirtland Air Force base and towards somewhere less harmful, right?

Speaker 40 For their ends, you know?

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 32 Definitely.

Speaker 104 Now, during his communications with the ETs, Paul became convinced that there was a secret war going on.

Speaker 49 Dozens of base security in Dulce had been murdered by the aliens in a gunfight.

Speaker 92 He wrote up plans to lay siege to Dulce base and began working to develop a sort of beam weapon that could kill aliens.

Speaker 12 Now, oh, Paul, wow, okay.

Speaker 129 Yeah, now we're making beam weapons, huh, buddy? Oh, yeah.

Speaker 12 He was like, I better hope the aliens don't have aluminum foil.

Speaker 50 Listen, folks, if you have a friend who's making beam weapons to fight the underground aliens,

Speaker 124 I actually don't know how you should handle that situation, but probably don't give him a computer that lies to him.

Speaker 12 I think you got to sign him up for bowling league or something. Let's get him bowling.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 12 Yeah. Let's get some more social

Speaker 1 contact happening.

Speaker 1 Maybe.

Speaker 12 Fill out that social schedule a little bit. You know what?

Speaker 11 Let's see if he wants to play D and D.

Speaker 20 Maybe his imagination needs a little bit of a workout, you know?

Speaker 3 That might be great. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 55 Now, if a lot of this sounds like the overarching conspiracy plot for the first like five seasons of the X-Files, that's because this is almost certainly the direct inspiration for a lot of the X-Files, right?

Speaker 46 Like this is in fact, because this is all happening in the 80s, not long before the X-Files starts, right?

Speaker 16 So Binowitz, as he's communicating with these aliens, he's gathering information on this secret underground base and this war he believes is going on underneath everyone's noses.

Speaker 111 He's sending back everything he's getting to special agent Dodie, his good friend.

Speaker 114 And Doty dutifully forwards this up up the chain and encourages Paul, keep digging.

Speaker 123 You know, you're getting close.

Speaker 40 He's doing the deep throat thing, right?

Speaker 54 He's like, Yeah, keep, keep digging, Agent Boulder, you know?

Speaker 90 Yeah.

Speaker 12 Yeah, yeah. You're so close.
You're going to get there.

Speaker 92 He's telling him that the aliens at Dulce base had been responsible for what he'd seen over Kirtland.

Speaker 16 And he does this because he's like, oh, yeah, man, you know what?

Speaker 20 I ran it up the flagpole and those that underground base, that's

Speaker 10 why you were seeing those weird lights.

Speaker 111 Don't look near the Air Force base.

Speaker 130 Keep hanging out around Dulce, you know?

Speaker 113 That's that's where the shit's going on, right?

Speaker 20 Yeah.

Speaker 87 Go rightly claims the ultimate intent of stringing Benowitz along, according to researchers like Greg Bishop and Christian Lambright, was to shift Benowitz's attention away from Kirtland to a remote area like the Archuleta Mesa near Dulce, where Afosai could ramp up their disinformation operation and more easily stage UFO events.

Speaker 11 Speaking of staged, you know what's not staged

Speaker 130 is the reliability of our sponsors.

Speaker 6 That's completely legitimate, you know?

Speaker 119 Don't even question it.

Speaker 6 Don't think about it.

Speaker 4 Hand over your credit card information.

Speaker 24 Text it to me.

Speaker 57 I'll buy stuff for you.

Speaker 67 I'm Josh Zeman, and and this is Monster, Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York since the son of Sam.

Speaker 75 Come join us in learning from detectives, prosecutors, authors, canine handlers, forensic experts, and most importantly, victims' family members.

Speaker 69 In 1997, in Belgium, 37 female body parts placed in 15 trash bags were found at dump sites with evocative names like the Path of Worry, Dump Road, and Fear Creek.

Speaker 132 We felt like we were in the presence of someone who was going to the grave with nightmarish secrets.

Speaker 69 From Tenderfoot TV and iHeart Podcasts, this is Le Mansre season 2, The Butcher of Moss, available now. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 3 Malcolm Glaubal here.

Speaker 133 This season on Revisionist History, we're going back to the spring of 1988 to a town in northwest northwest Alabama where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control.

Speaker 135 35 years.

Speaker 135 That's how long Elizabeth Sennett's family waited for justice to occur.

Speaker 135 35 long

Speaker 3 years.

Speaker 136 I want to figure out why this case went on for as long as it did. Why it took so many bizarre and unsettling turns along the way.

Speaker 134 And why, despite our best efforts to resolve suffering, we all too often make suffering worse.

Speaker 137 He would say to himself, turn to the right to the victim's family and apologize. Turn to the left.
Tell my family I love them. So he would have this little practice.
To the right, I'm sorry.

Speaker 137 To the left, I love you.

Speaker 133 From Revisionist History, this is the Alabama Murders.

Speaker 134 Listen to Revisionist History, The Alabama Murders on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 83 And we're back.

Speaker 28 Okay, so near the end of 1981, Richard Doty convinces his superiors to let him take Paul on a special helicopter flight around the Archuleda Mesa, since Paul is a pilot and they see some stuff, you know.

Speaker 115 There's some, and apparently, Doty claims that he and other agents put out props, right, to look like air vents for the secret underground base and other evidence, right?

Speaker 3 This is so crazy.

Speaker 12 Now there's an art director involved. Yeah, there's an art director involved.
There's a little production,

Speaker 12 production. There's production meetings about like what to do to this poor man.
like yeah

Speaker 92 they're having pitches and stuff they're yelling pitch meetings on with this guy there's a whole there's a prop team now yes um oh no so because paul's a pilot after this first trip he follows this by doing his own recon flights over the area and he gets very obsessed with this and i have some questions i don't know if i believe doty entirely that like he's being handed all of the men and equipment necessary to carry out a staged operation on the scale he describes.

Speaker 8 But also it's possible, and in fact, maybe likely, Paul is sometimes seeing some real stuff.

Speaker 29 Like he reports seeing what he describes as a crashed Delta wing aircraft.

Speaker 98 And

Speaker 55 in this area at this time, they're working on prototypes of the stealth bomber, which looks like that.

Speaker 83 And in fact, Greg Bishop's Project Beta, like, that's his basic conclusion is that like Paul might have seen like some of the testing stages of the prototype of like the stealth bomber, right?

Speaker 114 And maybe that was like part of what Dodie was doing was: if we get this guy to talk about,

Speaker 16 if we, if we show, if we get, if we let this guy see a little bit of the real stealth bomber program, but convince him it's aliens, then anybody who's talking about like a Delta wing aircraft, right, will be like, oh, you're just talking about a UFO, not this actual thing that we're working on, right?

Speaker 12 Yeah, exactly. Let's get everybody off the scent once again.

Speaker 16 So maybe that's what's happening, or maybe it was just an easy thing to make look like a plane from the the air.

Speaker 3 Shit like this.

Speaker 7 They do this in World War II a bunch.

Speaker 98 We do it and actually the Nazis do it too, where you'll like make basically fake out of like wood and shit and spray paint tanks and stuff.

Speaker 15 So people think there's an army where it isn't, right?

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 yeah.

Speaker 12 Where I'm from in Maryland,

Speaker 12 there's a fake cop car on like one of the highways

Speaker 12 that is up just to slow you down. Yeah.

Speaker 35 Love that shit.

Speaker 85 Now, there are other claims about what happened to Paul and his wife during this this period that are more questionable.

Speaker 55 One write-up I found by the Cyberthetic Project claims that Paul and his wife developed red sores or perhaps some sort of rashes on their body.

Speaker 11 I've seen that a few times.

Speaker 6 The Cyberthetic Project describes itself as a token project with a mission to unite holders so that they can communicate in an open forum on the blockchain without fear of being judged or censored.

Speaker 114 So you'd be right about questioning it as a source.

Speaker 105 That said, this is all a lot of fun, so I'm going to quote from it anyway.

Speaker 124 Just, you know, a lot of salt here.

Speaker 6 It has since been revealed that the NSA was in possession of sensitive documents concerning advanced technologies such as active denial systems and active denial technology.

Speaker 27 These technologies were apparently being developed by Sandia Labs and Kirk Glund Air Force Base with the aim of producing a non-lethal weapon that could be used against enemies.

Speaker 27 Were they using this technology on the Binowitz family? The answer to that is also unclear.

Speaker 10 What is clear is that Paul and his wife were being physically impacted by his research into UFOs.

Speaker 95 And that's maybe not

Speaker 18 like, I don't, I think probably likelier than some sort of weird beam weapon is that Paul is losing his mind and he and his wife are both very stressed out by this and convinced that they're being targeted by aliens.

Speaker 126 And they have like shingles, a stress rash, something like all sorts of shit, you know?

Speaker 12 Oh, yeah. It feels like they probably would have like broken out in some sort of like, yeah, stress rash of some kind.

Speaker 12 Like, yes, that's very, I have several friends from the California fires that had them a week ago.

Speaker 1 Right, right.

Speaker 12 Imagine prolonged experience to potential aliens for years. Yeah, you have rashes too.

Speaker 101 Right. I don't think that that's it.

Speaker 130 It's at all unlikely that something like that is the case here.

Speaker 3 And yeah.

Speaker 6 So as he grew more obsessed with seeking out the truth, Paul's business declined, which is another reason why maybe he's dealing with some stress-related problems.

Speaker 101 Oh, my God.

Speaker 12 I just need you to sign off on this.

Speaker 35 Paul, we just really need to make this sensor, man.

Speaker 127 Could we?

Speaker 93 Okay, you've got the whole team working on translating alien speech.

Speaker 101 All right.

Speaker 3 Well,

Speaker 3 I'm going to maybe print out some resumes.

Speaker 12 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 47 In 1978, Thunder Scientific had 30 employees.

Speaker 96 By 1981, the number was down by almost half.

Speaker 130 He starts hiding like guns and knives around his home as the 1980s wore on because he's just incredibly paranoid now.

Speaker 83 And he continues to attend UFO events throughout the mid to late 1980s.

Speaker 96 His yarn about Dulce Bass, which was almost certainly invented or at least heavily egged egged on by Richard Dodie, had been a magnificent success.

Speaker 16 In 1987, John Lear, a prominent ufologist, stated that he had independently confirmed elements of Benowitz's story, right?

Speaker 15 That there's this underground base at a Dulce.

Speaker 87 Several books in the late 1980s published their own variants of the story, which helped to spark a paranoid belief in secret underground alien bases that is still a significant part of QAnon today.

Speaker 27 Like a lot of QAnon guys believe believe that there's a base under the Getty in Los Angeles.

Speaker 12 That's why I didn't burn.

Speaker 129 That's why I didn't burn. They kept it safe.
That's where they keep the kids.

Speaker 3 Center or villa?

Speaker 55 I think it's the center.

Speaker 16 Either way, do a pizza gate at both places, Sophie.

Speaker 50 You know what?

Speaker 20 No, that didn't end well for that guy.

Speaker 114 There's a lot that's sad about this, but one of the worst things is that Paul had almost certainly stumbled upon a very real and very important conspiracy at Kirtland.

Speaker 6 See, today, Kirtland Air Force Base is a major testing site for advanced drone technology, including weapons systems to defeat drone swarms and other experimental tech.

Speaker 41 We know that in 1980, a black mystery vehicle was spotted at the base.

Speaker 55 This is right around the same time Paul is making his initial reports.

Speaker 91 Soviets

Speaker 53 of this mystery vehicle that is being tested at Kirtland Air Force Base when Paul is observing shit, right?

Speaker 11 It looks kind of like an SR-71, but it's like a drone version almost.

Speaker 22 This was apparently what's now we know this was called at the time TD, a TDUX tow target.

Speaker 6 A write-up in the war zone describes it as a high-speed towed aerial target to support the testing of infrared and electronic countermeasures, or IRCM and ECM, respectively.

Speaker 39 Something like this would both look very weird in the sky and also might put off some of the signals that Paul was, you know, receiving.

Speaker 3 Right.

Speaker 53 Now, I don't know if this is what he saw.

Speaker 20 It was other stuff because other shit is being tested at Kirtland, including precursors to our modern drone program, right?

Speaker 14 Paul very likely came across evidence of the development of unmanned weapon systems that have gone on to kill huge numbers of people.

Speaker 114 No aliens need to be involved at all for this to both make sense and be a real conspiracy theory.

Speaker 113 It's also very likely Dodie wasn't fully in the loop as to what was being developed there because he wouldn't need to be.

Speaker 83 And in fact, the more he believed the bullshit he was pushing on Paul, the safer the real secrets were.

Speaker 3 In 1988. Yep, yep.

Speaker 29 Cool stuff.

Speaker 129 The drone program.

Speaker 95 It always comes back to that.

Speaker 12 Hooray. So exciting.
But they make pretty firework alternatives. It's fine.

Speaker 3 Yeah. It's all good stuff.

Speaker 12 Yeah, don't worry. They can form Steve Harvey in the sky.

Speaker 126 Yeah, they can make Steve.

Speaker 32 It's fine.

Speaker 3 They should have done that.

Speaker 12 What if

Speaker 12 the aliens love Steve Harvey?

Speaker 1 Don't mind.

Speaker 128 Yeah, Paul Benowitz went to the Air Force.

Speaker 129 I keep seeing Steve Harvey's face in the night sky. I don't know what's going on.

Speaker 85 In 1988, Paul published plans for an assault on Dulce Base, which he'd become convinced was the nexus of an alien plan to control the world.

Speaker 39 That same year, he became convinced that his wife was working with the aliens, or perhaps in control of the entire alien conspiracy.

Speaker 12 Go rightly.

Speaker 12 Wife.

Speaker 3 Yeah, she's really putting, she's really going through it here.

Speaker 9 And in this passage from Go Reitley's book, which is based on interviews with Bill Moore and Richard Doty, he describes a profoundly ill man.

Speaker 6 Both Bill Moore and Richard Doty on separate occasions witnessed firsthand Benowitz's mounting paranoia, describing him as spun out and barricaded inside his homes, chain-smoking cigarettes, waiting in fevered anticipation for the final E.T.

Speaker 9 showdown.

Speaker 54 In Project Beta, Greg Bishop recounted: Benowitz told Moore that after the aliens injected him, they would make him drive his car into the desert in the middle of the night, but he couldn't remember what he did after he got there.

Speaker 27 Around this time, Benowitz's family committed him to a mental health facility for nervous exhaustion.

Speaker 3 Oh, man.

Speaker 83 And you will sometimes hear it errantly stated that he commits suicide as a result of this.

Speaker 27 He does not.

Speaker 6 This thankfully doesn't have as sad a story as it might.

Speaker 110 Paul gets out after about a month, and he seems to have pulled himself out of the UFO community after this point.

Speaker 51 He and his wife stay together.

Speaker 6 They're married more than 50 years, and he lives until 2003.

Speaker 117 So, you know, kind of a happy ending, but boy, it didn't, it almost wasn't.

Speaker 12 Yeah, for real. Man.

Speaker 12 Also, shout out to the place he was committed, apparently.

Speaker 3 Apparently, they did the job.

Speaker 12 Yeah. That's serious deprogramming.

Speaker 120 Paul, Paul, man, you got to stop. You got to stop using the computer the NSA gave you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we have computer man.

Speaker 12 Man, some poor doctor just cracked all of their knuckles and said, all right,

Speaker 12 let's get into it.

Speaker 33 Paul, we need to have a long conversation about things that are real and things that aren't.

Speaker 27 So, Richard Doty would eventually retire from the Air Force and spend much of his retirement and golden years doing the UFO convention circuit.

Speaker 27 He will say that he was hired to consult on two seasons of the X-Files and that he wrote the screenplay for an episode.

Speaker 11 He's not credited as the writer for that episode,

Speaker 83 but you know, his stuff definitely helps inspire the X-Files, right?

Speaker 127 Like, he is, he is for sure involved in what becomes the X-Files purely because of, like, his role in UFO culture.

Speaker 12 I'm sure he wrote a script, but I'm sure he wrote a script, yeah.

Speaker 12 A lot of people have written scripts.

Speaker 55 And he is, he's a member of a couple of different organizations now.

Speaker 3 He's a very controversial figure within the UFO community because he both definitely worked for Air Force intelligence and tells a lot of stories about seeing aliens.

Speaker 128 He claims to have literally seen them and also admits that he lied about aliens for years to a guy who nearly lost his mind forever.

Speaker 24 I wouldn't trust him.

Speaker 114 But for an idea of how Richard Doty presents himself now, here's a clip from him on the New Realities YouTube channel being interviewed by a UFO ology author named Alan Steinfield.

Speaker 139 I mean, you're no longer working for the Air Force intelligence, right?

Speaker 140 But right that's right i don't work for air force intelligence

Speaker 139 well don't be offended by this question but how do we know you're still not working for them and you're just saying you're not working for them

Speaker 140 well there's a lot of uh

Speaker 140 controversy over that but

Speaker 140 number one i wouldn't have any reason to i'm um

Speaker 140 I left the agency, left the intelligence agency back in 1988, although

Speaker 140 people bring up the fact that I was brought back to active service in 91 and 93, but that had nothing to do with UFOs or disinformation. It had to do with what I did in Europe when after the

Speaker 12 wall fell. So

Speaker 140 I work as a private investigator. I have no connections, official connections with the United States government or intelligence community.

Speaker 140 I do have a lot of friends that still work within the intelligence community, and they feed me a lot of information that I share with you. I mean, I shared it with you at the UFO mega con.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 95 So, yeah, I mean, I think he's still, and they, I even found an interview where he's like talked about, like, he's asked about like, cause Tom DeLong of Blink182 is a big guy and is involved with Doty in one of the organizations he's in.

Speaker 95 And one of the interviews is like, are you doing a Paul Benowitz to Tom DeLong?

Speaker 121 He's like, of course not.

Speaker 3 I would never.

Speaker 12 I absolutely would never do that.

Speaker 101 I think he might be doing a Paul Benowitz on a couple of guys.

Speaker 55 Maybe that's just fun for him.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 12 It reminds me of, what's the,

Speaker 12 in the, Tanya Harding, in the assault of Nancy Kerrigan, Tanya Harding.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 12 The Galooley and the

Speaker 12 idiot friend, the amount of bullshit that they just

Speaker 12 believe about themselves and talk about. Like, yeah, like the other guy, Eckert, he like like talked about how he like was a special forces guy and had all this shit made up.

Speaker 12 You're like, damn, you believe this, though.

Speaker 95 I've heard so many fun lies about being special forces from dudes, like,

Speaker 49 especially out in like the mountains, like every old man you meet who like

Speaker 114 will tell you about all of the crazy shit he did in Vietnam.

Speaker 95 Um, and it's, it's just always, it's always nonsense.

Speaker 39 Like, yeah, I know a guy who's out where in the little mountain town where I used to live who was a SEAL team member during Vietnam.

Speaker 114 And his reaction was very different, which was like he handed me a book that was written about like him and his colleagues.

Speaker 93 I was like, you want to know anything?

Speaker 9 Just read that. I don't like talking about it.

Speaker 12 Yeah. If you've actually done any of this stuff, you're like, it's not, it's not what it is.
It's not the movies, buddies.

Speaker 31 It's kind of a bad time.

Speaker 12 I have a lot to answer for and process. Didn't like it.

Speaker 34 Not happy with how that all went.

Speaker 12 No, no, not worth the free beer to talk about it jovially. No, yeah.

Speaker 101 Anyway, well,

Speaker 120 that's the aliens.

Speaker 3 Or not, but maybe there's aliens.

Speaker 16 This is not conclusive on that matter, one way or the other.

Speaker 23 But there's definitely a bunch of spy agencies who will lie to you and destroy your brain if they think it will help them hide a fact that they're making some fucked up shit to kill people in other countries.

Speaker 12 Of course. Maybe the alien was inside of you, listener, the entire time.

Speaker 97 The real alien was always the military-industrial complex.

Speaker 12 Because, you know, define what an alien is. It's something that works against the good of humanity.
Then, in that case,

Speaker 12 the government is run by aliens.

Speaker 12 I don't know. Who knows? Who knows what's out there? Or in here, apparently.

Speaker 12 Yep.

Speaker 43 But what is out there and what is in here are your pluggables, Brandy.

Speaker 12 Bam. What

Speaker 12 transitions?

Speaker 1 Nice work.

Speaker 12 Thanks, Sophie.

Speaker 12 Yeah,

Speaker 12 you can find me online at Brand Dazzle on all of the platforms, including the new ones and the old ones.

Speaker 12 My podcast is called Lady to Lady, comes out every Wednesday and has been around for 13 years.

Speaker 12 Burn This Records is my comedy label that I run, where I put out amazing comedy albums and people all over the country that are very funny and also good people.

Speaker 12 And then I have my own album coming out on that label

Speaker 12 in the middle of

Speaker 12 March, and I would love for you to buy it. That'd be amazing.

Speaker 12 So, yeah, brandyposey.com has all the information for all of the things.

Speaker 12 But yeah, come say hi.

Speaker 12 If you're a fan of the show, you like me, I promise. So come on over.

Speaker 34 All right, everybody.

Speaker 6 Well, that's the episode.

Speaker 22 Until next time, again, folks, I say this every time. Head to Kirtland Air Force Base, get a camera out, and just start filming and go slowly insane.

Speaker 3 Get a pilot's license, fly over some random mesa, you know,

Speaker 126 just charity, just charity.

Speaker 102 Just do some shit, you know?

Speaker 3 Why not?

Speaker 12 Nothing bad can happen.

Speaker 3 The world's going to hell in a handbasket.

Speaker 27 You might as well lose your mind about some alien shit.

Speaker 12 If you want to test your relationship,

Speaker 13 go down an alien hole.

Speaker 95 See if your wife really loves you.

Speaker 93 You know, this is the only way to know.

Speaker 90 It's the only way to know.

Speaker 58 Behind the Bastards is a production of CoolZone Media.

Speaker 58 For more from CoolZone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 82 Behind the Bastards is now available on YouTube.

Speaker 58 New episodes every Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel, youtube.com slash at behind the bastards.

Speaker 69 A new true crime podcast from Tenderfoot TV in the city of Mons in Belgium. Women began to go missing.

Speaker 69 It was only after their dismembered remains began turning up in various places that residents realized a sadistic serial killer was lurking among them. The murders have never been solved.

Speaker 69 Three decades later, we've unearthed new evidence. Le Monstre, Season 2, is available now.
Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 72 Now this ain't just any old podcast, honey.

Speaker 72 We're going to be talking to family members of victims, detectives, prosecutors, and some nationally recognized experts that I have called on over the years to help me work these difficult cases.

Speaker 75 Come join us in learning from detectives, prosecutors, authors, canine handlers, forensic experts, and most importantly, victims' family members. Come be a part of My Zone 7 while building yours.

Speaker 72 On this podcast, In Cells, we unpack an emerging mindset.

Speaker 52 I am a loser.

Speaker 20 It's also a woman I wouldn't pay me either.

Speaker 141 A hidden world of resentment, cynicism, anger against women at a deadly tipping point.

Speaker 3 Tomorrow is the day of retribution, the day in which I will have my revenge.

Speaker 125 This is Incels.

Speaker 69 Listen to season one of Incels on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 58 This is an iHeart podcast.

Part Two: How The U.S. Government Used Aliens To Destroy a Man's Mind

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