S3: E7 – One in Six

Speaker 1 This is an iHeart podcast.

Speaker 3 When your alarm goes off in the morning, do you feel energized or are you tempted by the snooze button again and again?

Speaker 6 If you're dragging yourself out of bed, fighting brain fog and fatigue, I've been there too.

Speaker 9 Then I found Early Birds Morning Cocktail.

Speaker 10 It's formulated with clinically studied ingredients like clean caffeine, electrolytes, antioxidants, and adaptogens.

Speaker 12 It's a simple morning cocktail that fits seamlessly into my wake-up routine.

Speaker 8 It starts working immediately to combat grogginess, fatigue, and mental blocks.

Speaker 14 One drink, and the brain fog clears. The fatigue lifts.

Speaker 15 I'm in control of my day again.

Speaker 9 Take back your mornings.

Speaker 16 Visit clubearlybird.com and use code BETRAYAL for 20% off.

Speaker 18 That's clubearlybird.com.

Speaker 20 Life gets messy. Spills, stains, and kid chaos.
But with Anibay, cleaning up is easy. Our sofas are fully machine washable, inside and out, so you never have to stress about messes again.

Speaker 20 Made with liquid and stain-resistant fabrics, that means fewer stains and more peace of mind.

Speaker 20 Designed for real life, our sofas feature changeable fabric covers, allowing you to refresh your style anytime. Need flexibility? Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa effortlessly.

Speaker 20 Perfect for cozy apartments or spacious homes. Plus, they're earth-friendly and built to last.
That's why over 200,000 happy customers have made the switch.

Speaker 20 Get early access to Black Friday pricing right now. Sofas started just $699.

Speaker 20 Visit washable sofas.com now and bring home a sofa made for life. That's washablesofas.com.
Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

Speaker 22 Did a GLP-1 help you lose weight, but now you're noticing unwanted facial changes? The weight came off, but facial volume loss and dull sagging skin are making you look older?

Speaker 22 That's where the next phase of your weight loss journey comes in.

Speaker 12 There's before weight loss, after weight loss, and the after after.

Speaker 12 Help restore and refresh your facial skin and reclaim your natural looking youthful glow.

Speaker 11 To learn more, visit faceafterweightloss.com.

Speaker 22 That's faceafterweightloss.com.

Speaker 26 On this episode of Betrayal, you're going to meet a survivor of male sexual assault.

Speaker 29 It's a Hollywood actor many of us have an affinity for, Anthony Edwards.

Speaker 31 If If you watched ER in the 1990s or early 2000s, then you might have known him as Dr. Mark Green, and before that, as Goose in the iconic film Top Gun.

Speaker 32 Pure, unadulterated rage, anger that I'd never felt before. I wanted to take out a full-page ad in variety and say, you know, Dr.

Speaker 32 Green and Goose was assaulted by this man and have a wanted picture of him.

Speaker 15 I'm Andrea Gunning.

Speaker 33 This is Betrayal Season 3, Episode 7.

Speaker 31 1 and 6.

Speaker 26 Justin Rutherford's betrayal of Tyler, his wife Stacey, and family opened my eyes to a whole new community.

Speaker 31 It's men who are sexually abused and are carrying the trauma into adulthood. They are husbands, sons, brothers, fathers, and friends, and they have been largely silent and hurting.

Speaker 31 Some like Tyler are seeking a community.

Speaker 18 It's something he expressed in an earlier episode.

Speaker 35 There's no one that relates to you.

Speaker 35 You hit YouTube or Google and, you know, you're searching self-help videos or stuff related to your trauma and you're scrolling.

Speaker 35 There's not a lot of resources out there.

Speaker 28 We found a resource that we thought Tyler should know about.

Speaker 26 It's called One and Six, an organization which helps male survivors through providing information and support resources.

Speaker 31 And the name denotes what research has shown that one in six men have experienced sexual abuse or assault, whether in childhood or as adults.

Speaker 31 So we arranged a meeting with the heads of One and Six and Tyler. Stacey, Tyler's mom, was there too.

Speaker 14 This is huge. When you're going to talk to our studio B,

Speaker 31 we wanted to spend a day peeling back the layers of why it is so difficult for men of any age to seek help as victims of male sexual abuse and assault.

Speaker 31 Anthony Edwards is the chairman and national spokesperson for 1in6.org.

Speaker 32 I'm a professional pretender by trade. I've been an actor professionally since I was 16.

Speaker 33 Anthony has spent his career in the spotlight, but it wasn't until he was 52 that he came out of the shadow of abuse to tell his story.

Speaker 32 I was assaulted by my mentor, the man who had taught me a lot about theater and about art and was intimately involved with my love for acting.

Speaker 32 And as a result of the betrayal,

Speaker 32 I

Speaker 32 lived most of my life in fear because my experience of having been assaulted as a kid set me up for being afraid and not trusting in people, places, or things.

Speaker 6 Anthony is now a leading advocate for male sexual abuse survivors.

Speaker 29 One of the One in Six's co-founders also joined the discussion.

Speaker 32 My name is David Leesak. I'm a clinical psychologist.
I've spent my career working in the area of trauma and also violence.

Speaker 32 I've studied perpetrators and I've also studied primarily men who experience child abuse.

Speaker 32 I have spent the last 30-some years working in applied areas, training law enforcement and prosecutors.

Speaker 30 We wanted to give Tyler the opportunity to connect with someone who truly knows what he is dealing with. So we asked Anthony to share more of his story with Tyler.

Speaker 32 Men, by nature, minimize,

Speaker 32 deny, hide, and isolate. And that's the tragic result of

Speaker 32 what happens to

Speaker 32 people who were assaulted or traumatized as kids. And I learned to survive by hyper-focusing.
I think probably the reason why I worked so young and so hard was because that was the way to survive.

Speaker 32 That was the way out. Be an actor, achieve everything.

Speaker 32 The other flip side of that is that

Speaker 32 acting was something that I loved. It was really important to me before I met this person.
And when this person came in

Speaker 32 and twisted it all, I still had that core of the joy of that. And that's what always I kept trying to reconnect to.

Speaker 32 So it reminds me of the fact that

Speaker 32 we can be damaged, we can be hurt, but that core of who we are is always there.

Speaker 32 And that's what recovery is about. That's what what I've learned about recovery is that you're recovering the good.
You're not there to take away all the bad.

Speaker 33 When you were 52,

Speaker 36 what inspired you to

Speaker 36 start talking about this?

Speaker 36 What happened to you?

Speaker 32 Pure, unadulterated rage, anger that I'd never felt before.

Speaker 32 The man who had been my perpetrator, been the perpetrator, we try not to say my, because he's not mine. He is a perpetrator, was back in the news 22 years before.

Speaker 32 I had had the experience when I was 30 years old of being a new father, and I had run into him on a plane,

Speaker 32 and I said, hey, what you did was wrong. What you did to us as kids was wrong.
And I confronted him.

Speaker 32 And he then spent about 20 minutes telling me as I walked from the plane about how it was the worst thing in his life. He'd gotten help.

Speaker 32 He no longer hurt children, he'd felt remorse, that he was healed and he was trying to lead a good life. And I bought it.

Speaker 32 In 52, when all of a sudden he was in the news, having been accused, I was so angry, I was so filled with rage. And I wanted to take out a full-page ad in Variety and say, you know, Dr.

Speaker 32 Green and Goose was assaulted by this man and have a wanted picture of him.

Speaker 32 Luckily, a friend took me and said, before you do that, why don't you go talk to this psychiatrist and start your journey of healing of what really happened to you when you were a teenager?

Speaker 29 So you almost turned that anger into purpose.

Speaker 32 I luckily did, and I think a lot of survivors don't.

Speaker 32 We've learned a lot from the Me Too movement, and there's a lot of women that were hurt and abused, and they need to get together and get angry and shout out.

Speaker 32 My experience, our experience at 1 in 6, is that a lot of men are already really angry and they're already acting out.

Speaker 31 I asked Anthony how the trauma of his sexual abuse impacted important relationships.

Speaker 32 The same year that I disclosed was the same year that my marriage ended.

Speaker 32 The problems within that relationship were directly affected by my inability to be truthful and honest with myself and what my experiences were.

Speaker 32 So

Speaker 32 you'll see that when you talk to men in their 50s, they're at this crisis of looking at this because a lot of their life has exploded.

Speaker 32 The result of unprocessed trauma will definitely manifest itself in unhealthy relationships.

Speaker 37 Tyler, what parts of Anthony's story resonate with you?

Speaker 35 A lot of it, having to like overachieve and just be super successful in life, having that desire to want to do something bigger than myself and like help others because of what I've been through and use my story for good.

Speaker 35 At the end of the day, we've gone through the same thing. I can relate to them.

Speaker 38 I know you guys spoke a little bit in the green room, but can you give us a little bit, to the extent that you're comfortable, what happened to you?

Speaker 35 Yeah, so

Speaker 35 I was abused by my stepfather growing up. Started around age nine to ten, all the way up until right before I turned 16.

Speaker 35 He had assaulted one of my friends. And growing up as a kid, going through it, I didn't know that.
It was terrible thinking I was all alone.

Speaker 35 And I'm not saying that it's good to know he did it to other people, but it let me know that I wasn't the problem, that this was just like a terrible man and other people had felt that pain too.

Speaker 35 Again, not that that's a good thing, but it makes you

Speaker 35 feel understood sometimes, like in some way.

Speaker 32 You learned so much, unfortunately, when you started uncovering these rocks, but the Predator in my case very much worked with a group. We had a group of boys that were all into theater.

Speaker 32 We were his special group. And so the grooming aspect, which you realize that so much of this is about control and power and not, I mean, sex, yes.

Speaker 32 But the most important thing is the control and the manipulation and the power. And part of the silencing is the fact that you think, oh, well, I'm not being hurt as badly as Scott is.

Speaker 32 Scott's really getting the brunt of this. And, oh, it's my fault that it's happening.
So it's a way of keeping everybody silenced.

Speaker 35 And then, like, for me, I was always trying to bring friends over like as much as I could because it gave me a sense of safety. I felt like this was only happening to me that he had something for me.

Speaker 35 I don't know why necessarily I didn't think like it was him. It was just he had something for me.

Speaker 35 Little did I know that I was bringing all those friends into a dangerous situation because I wanted to be safe.

Speaker 35 And if someone would have told me this is hurting all your friends and your family and you're bringing your friends right to it, I probably would have done it.

Speaker 35 That would have made me break my silence.

Speaker 30 Psychologist David Liesak heard something that didn't sit right with him.

Speaker 32 I sniff a little guilt.

Speaker 35 Well, yeah, because you got like

Speaker 35 some friends who he had done stuff to.

Speaker 32 But who did it to him? To your friends?

Speaker 35 It was my stepdad at the time. Don't call him that no more.

Speaker 32 Yeah.

Speaker 32 I really don't want you to walk around with that guilt because it ain't yours. It's not your fault.

Speaker 35 I'd say that's probably like the worst thing of it all to this day now, because I like worked on what

Speaker 35 my problems were, but not, I guess, that problem because I thought it more so had to do with just feeling bad for those people, but more so it's feeling bad for how I went about it.

Speaker 32 Yeah, that kept me silent for a long time because my best friend Scott was the one who was repeatedly raped.

Speaker 32 And

Speaker 32 he was a gay man

Speaker 32 and he

Speaker 32 of AIDS in 1994.

Speaker 32 My silence really weighed on the fact that I thought, my God, if I could have said something, if I would have done something, would his relationship to sex and promiscuity been different?

Speaker 32 Would Scott still be alive today?

Speaker 32 They make you feel responsible. And to this day, as David's pointing out, us sitting here, and here you are doing this heroic thing, there's still a part of you that's going,

Speaker 32 fuck, why did I bring my friends over?

Speaker 32 You know, that that's somehow your fault and it is not

Speaker 32 your fault. And that's something we all work on and we carry.

Speaker 32 You're truly heroic and strong to be 19 and talking.

Speaker 31 Tyler's willingness to share his story at his young age really is remarkable.

Speaker 34 Anthony understands the significance and so does David.

Speaker 26 He isn't only an expert on child abuse and perpetrators, he's also a survivor.

Speaker 32 I disclosed for the first time when I was in my 30s, I think the way in which the abuse that I suffered affected my relationships primarily was sort of a deep lack of trust.

Speaker 32 I was abused by somebody who was living in our house.

Speaker 32 He was a boarder in order to help cover the rent. We were pretty poor.
And

Speaker 32 my mother was a refugee from Europe, and this guy was a refugee from Asia, from all World War II. And

Speaker 32 he would come into

Speaker 32 my brother and I, my bedroom, and he would wake me up by suffocating me. And then he would take me out of the room.
And between our bedroom and his room, there was a hallway about maybe eight feet.

Speaker 32 And in that eight feet,

Speaker 32 every night,

Speaker 32 I would be terrified, knowing what is about to happen to me again.

Speaker 32 And my brother is sleeping over there, 10 feet from me. My mother is 10 feet down the hall this way, and I'm alone, and nobody's protecting me.
I was five years old.

Speaker 32 And that's where I lost my trust. You know, if my mother doesn't protect me, if my brother doesn't protect me, I had no father.
There's nobody's, I don't have trust in anybody.

Speaker 32 And it took me a good chunk of my life

Speaker 32 to

Speaker 32 get out of that hallway.

Speaker 32 Yeah, to get out of that hallway. Exactly.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 34 That moment affected everyone in the room.

Speaker 40 It was heartbreaking.

Speaker 28 Not only the awful abuse David suffered, but the years it took for him to process and work through the trauma.

Speaker 6 Anthony pointed out that Tyler was changing the pattern.

Speaker 32 You're setting an example, not of

Speaker 32 success, that it's all gone and done, and we got rid of it,

Speaker 32 but the shame is less.

Speaker 32 You're not going to carry that. You're not going to carry what's not yours.

Speaker 32 You know?

Speaker 32 This was done to you, not because of you.

Speaker 30 Coming up, Dr. David Leesak explains how Tyler's experience was like living in a war zone.

Speaker 22 Traditional security systems respond after someone breaks in. Simply Safe is different because it can stop crimes before they happen with its Active Guard outdoor protection.

Speaker 41 I've been using Simply Safe for the past two years, and I keep finding reasons to recommend it to my friends and family.

Speaker 22 With Simply Safe's 24-7 Pro Active Protection, I have never felt safer in my own home.

Speaker 25 I love that indoor cameras allow me to check in on my pets during the day or while I'm traveling for work.

Speaker 23 Also, Simply Safe's AI-powered cameras detect threats while they're still outside your home and alert real security agents.

Speaker 25 The agents can confront the intruder, letting them know they're being watched on camera and that police are on their way, and even sounding a loud siren and triggering a spotlight if needed.

Speaker 24 This is how you stop a crime before it starts.

Speaker 41 There are no long-term contracts or hidden fees, and you can cancel anytime.

Speaker 22 And Simply Safe has been named best home security systems by U.S.

Speaker 11 News and World Report for five years running.

Speaker 8 There's a 60-day money-back guarantee, so you can try it and see the difference for yourself.

Speaker 41 Don't miss out on Simply Safe's biggest sale of the year, 60% off.

Speaker 22 Right now, our listeners can save 60% off on Simply Safe home security system at simplysafe.com slash betrayal.

Speaker 1 That's simply safe.com slash betrayal.

Speaker 11 There's no safe like SimplySafe.

Speaker 3 When your alarm goes off in the morning, do you feel energized or are you tempted by the snooze button again and again?

Speaker 6 If you're dragging yourself out of bed, fighting brain fog and fatigue, I've been there too.

Speaker 9 Then I found Early Birds Morning Cocktail.

Speaker 10 It's formulated with clinically studied ingredients like clean caffeine, electrolytes, antioxidants, and adaptogens.

Speaker 12 It's a simple morning cocktail that fits seamlessly into my wake-up routine.

Speaker 8 It starts working immediately to combat grogginess, fatigue, and mental blocks.

Speaker 14 One drink, and the brain fog clears, the fatigue lifts, I'm in control of my day again.

Speaker 9 Take back your mornings.

Speaker 16 Visit clubearlybird.com and use code BETRAYAL for 20% off.

Speaker 18 That's clubearlybird.com.

Speaker 20 Life gets messy. Spills, stains, and kid chaos.
But with Anime, cleaning up is easy. Our sofas are fully machine washable, inside and out, so you never have to stress about messes again.

Speaker 20 Made with liquid and stain-resistant fabrics, that means fewer stains and more peace of mind.

Speaker 20 Designed for real life, our sofas feature changeable fabric covers, allowing you to refresh your style anytime. Need flexibility? Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa effortlessly.

Speaker 20 Perfect for cozy apartments or spacious homes. Plus, they're earth-friendly and built to last.
That's why over 200,000 happy customers have made the switch.

Speaker 20 Get early access to Black Friday pricing right now. Sofas started just $699.

Speaker 20 Visit washable sofas.com now and bring home a sofa made for life. That's washable sofas.com.
Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

Speaker 9 We are sitting with Stacey and Tyler as they speak with actor Anthony Edwards and clinical psychologist Dr.

Speaker 27 David Leesak.

Speaker 29 Here's Anthony.

Speaker 32 To this day, I believe the perpetrator in my experience believed that he was doing it because that's what I needed, what I wanted, because there was a lack of that role model in my life.

Speaker 32 I didn't have a father figure. He was going to be the father figure.

Speaker 32 That exploitation of someone's desire is where they get in.

Speaker 32 Oh, you want to be loved? Oh, your dad's not around. Oh, you want this? You want to be part of a group? You want to have a career? You want to succeed.
And you learn that love is conditional.

Speaker 32 There's no such thing as unconditional love. If you're not experiencing it, that is love.
Love is conditional.

Speaker 35 Yeah.

Speaker 32 So you don't trust. You don't trust.
I used to say, that's why I became a good actor, because I could go into a room and I could assess everything.

Speaker 32 Because you need to know where you're safe, where you're not, who you can trust. So you get really good at playing a room to know how to survive.

Speaker 32 Because surviving is the most important thing because when your spirit's broken like that you feel like you'll die if you don't

Speaker 35 yeah no it's hard to find joy in things really like i would say i've worked past my depression and i've worked on myself i've come very far but it's hard to really find something i enjoy like i love watching a movie with my mom or my girlfriend But like, I couldn't do that alone.

Speaker 35 I wouldn't enjoy it. I don't know what I want to do.
I know I want to do something big and important and make a change, but I have no clue really what that is.

Speaker 37 It's interesting that you both felt this need to overachieve in your own ways.

Speaker 38 Where do you think that comes from?

Speaker 35 In my head, I like picture where I want my life to be.

Speaker 35 And like I just sometimes tell myself, I know I'll be happy when I have that dream job and I have that wife that loves me and that family that I wanted and that house that's paid off and that maybe not sports car, but decent car.

Speaker 35 I'm not looking for anything crazy, but still, that's what I want.

Speaker 32 But the irony, of course, is that you're using all of these conditions to do it. I use techniques that I learned, which were conditional.

Speaker 32 Oh, if I do this, if I get this role, then that will take care of it. If I get this, that'll be the case.
If I find the right person, then I will have. the perfect family.

Speaker 32 Like it was always looking ahead as opposed to right here and now. So I have to do all these things to get there.

Speaker 32 And that is a habit trail or a spinning wheel that is impossible to maintain your whole life.

Speaker 32 But as long as I was in the mindset of this and this and this is going to make me happy, it didn't work. It didn't work.
Happiness is very hard to achieve when you're conditioned to

Speaker 32 have to do something to get love.

Speaker 35 Yeah, I live a lot in like what he was saying.

Speaker 35 You constantly tell yourself, oh, I'll be happy when I get this, or as I'm approaching this, I'll be happy. And yeah, I'll frequently say that, but I've been trying to be better about it.

Speaker 32 Anthony, as a child, to learn that love is conditional, that's a really scary thing.

Speaker 38 Was it until you became a parent, did you unlock this unconditional love?

Speaker 32 It was directly related to being a parent. That's the miracle.
Like I found the strength to confront this man.

Speaker 32 When you're a parent and you experience that unconditional love, it changes you.

Speaker 37 With the stigma and the fact that men typically don't disclose until much later in life,

Speaker 34 could the number be actually

Speaker 32 we know it is different. That's just what's been.
I mean, David could speak to that.

Speaker 32 It's a notoriously difficult area to study because There's actually a couple studies that have shown that even when you have documentary evidence that a man was sexually abused as a child and you then ask them later in life if they were ever sexually abused, the vast majority of those men will deny it.

Speaker 32 Some have lost the memory. Most probably are just not willing to respond.

Speaker 32 So as a researcher, I conducted many studies and found, you know, about one in six men were acknowledging that they had had some kind of experience that meets the definition of sexual abuse.

Speaker 32 And I'm absolutely certain that it is only, you know, some fraction of the actual number. What the actual number is, I can't even guess.
It's greater than one in six, that's for sure.

Speaker 39 The conversation about denial sparked a thought from Tyler's mom, Stacey.

Speaker 42 You even said, had it not been for the discovery of the cameras in our home, he intended to take it to his grave. I mean, that was just his

Speaker 42 thought.

Speaker 35 I mean, the plan was to get the hell out.

Speaker 35 I kept telling myself,

Speaker 35 next year it'll stop because I'll be older. I'll look more like a man.

Speaker 35 And it never stopped. And I just kept telling myself I can push through high school.

Speaker 32 You know, it's important to understand

Speaker 32 that the intensity of Tyler's need for purpose. It's the same as soldiers coming back from war.

Speaker 32 The experience in a war zone is so intense. You're frightened all the time.
You see death, and it actually affects your brain.

Speaker 32 You know, your brain gets kind of reset to live on edge, and every second, every moment is charged with, you know, what if, what if, what if, and what do I have to do to survive this?

Speaker 32 When you live with the kind of daily fear that you lived with,

Speaker 32 you are in a combat zone. Yeah.
You know, that's the same thing.

Speaker 32 And it really recalibrates your brain, and it takes really a long time to sort of recalibrate again so that, yes, you could be in a situation where you are once again in that kind of a danger, but most of life life isn't that way it just takes a while to

Speaker 32 get to a point where your nervous system and your brain are kind of just a little bit more quiet

Speaker 32 it's okay to just have a quiet day

Speaker 32 you really were in combat and you're coming out of it now

Speaker 36 stacy was sharing something with me this morning about

Speaker 38 one of her concerns for you.

Speaker 32 Do you want to share a little bit?

Speaker 42 A huge concern for me is when I start to feel that something's not okay with you, you're kind of quieter, things like that, and you tell me that you're okay.

Speaker 42 You're trained for so long to be quiet and to lie to everyone around you about what's going on in your world and how you feel.

Speaker 42 But I worry that there are times where he's telling me he's okay and I'm still dealing with that child again who's lying to me.

Speaker 32 You're bringing bringing up just a really important part of all this too.

Speaker 32 Everybody's affected by this event, these traumatic events. Everybody who loves and cares about these individuals is affected.
And in the same way that

Speaker 32 you have to give Tyler space for his change, he also has to and you have to take the space for yourself as a parent to process what it is, to feel that, oh my God, why didn't I do anything?

Speaker 32 How come I didn't protect? And so you have to allow yourself your healing in this process because you can't only be good if Tyler's good.

Speaker 32 You have to be good unto yourself, but you can't make your happiness conditional on whether or not Tyler recovers

Speaker 32 because he's going to and he is recovering. It's worthwhile to remember from time to time that there's another part of the equation here, and that is that both of you were groomed.

Speaker 32 I've spent a lot of my career studying predators,

Speaker 32 and

Speaker 32 grooming is an integral part of

Speaker 32 these predations.

Speaker 32 And it's not just the direct victim who's groomed. We're in Boston here now, and I was here during the 1990 Catholic clergy eruption of cases.

Speaker 32 I interviewed a number of both victims of John Gagan, one of the most prolific predators, and also the mothers of some of his victims. And Gagan was just a brilliant groomer.

Speaker 32 And he started by grooming mothers,

Speaker 32 which gave him access to the children. And he would then pick which one of the children, mostly boys, because he understood that boys are less likely to disclose.

Speaker 32 So you were both victimized by that grooming process, and that's something that you are still coping with.

Speaker 32 Yeah.

Speaker 32 Everybody can be groomed. Everybody.
What grooming is, is taking human trust

Speaker 32 and perverting it. It's almost impossible.
to detect it.

Speaker 32 And predators practice this. So they're not just doing this for the first time.
They practice this over many, many years and they get better and better and better at it.

Speaker 32 So everybody is susceptible to it.

Speaker 38 You typically hear from men that are much older than Tyler.

Speaker 37 Can you talk about the impact of a conversation that's starting with a 19-year-old on this public of a platform?

Speaker 6 What does that do?

Speaker 32 to

Speaker 15 the overall conversation.

Speaker 32 Well, Tyler, let me turn a question to you. All right.

Speaker 32 Let's imagine that there's a 15-year-old boy who's in a situation like you were in.

Speaker 32 What would you say to him?

Speaker 35 Probably tell him to listen to the podcast.

Speaker 32 Good start.

Speaker 35 I don't know. I'd probably tell him it might seem like the end of the world, but it's not.

Speaker 35 I'm not going to lie to you and tell you it's going to be easy, but just like anything, you find ways to overcome it and it'll happen.

Speaker 32 It's possible.

Speaker 35 You just got to want it.

Speaker 31 And onein6.org has tools to help.

Speaker 32 You can find not only therapists, you can find support groups, you can find peer support groups, you can find other survivors.

Speaker 32 What we are really focused on here is to confront and challenge the stigma that silences men so that

Speaker 32 young men like Tyler here, who has the guts to come forward,

Speaker 32 we appreciate what you're doing and we don't want you to be alone.

Speaker 35 Like what he was saying, men definitely minimize because I was talking to one of my buddies a while back and he was talking about how he had lost his virginity at like 12 and I was like, yeah, no, that's

Speaker 32 sexual assault, dude. Well, that's what you're doing, man.
You're naming it and you're just that

Speaker 32 you're changing it. You're changing the world.

Speaker 32 But those simple conversations that's what i also like to say too is like you don't have to be on a podcast to affect you know these are the normalizing conversation and that's where the change happens

Speaker 32 and you're doing it in a selfless way that is really it's important and you will hear i guarantee it you will hear it because i know whenever i'm in a situation and there's a group of 50 or 60 people and i'm sharing part of my story or whatever it is

Speaker 32 one out of six of them are survivors

Speaker 31 Coming up, we ask Anthony and Dr.

Speaker 29 Liesak how we can approach children who are holding back what has happened to them.

Speaker 3 When your alarm goes off in the morning, do you feel energized or are you tempted by the snooze button again and again?

Speaker 6 If you're dragging yourself out of bed, fighting brain fog and fatigue, I've been there too.

Speaker 9 Then I found Early Birds Morning Cocktail.

Speaker 10 It's formulated with clinically studied ingredients like clean caffeine, electrolytes, antioxidants, and adaptogens.

Speaker 12 It's a simple morning cocktail that fits seamlessly into my wake-up routine.

Speaker 8 It starts working immediately to combat grogginess, fatigue, and mental blocks.

Speaker 14 One drink, and the brain fog clears. The fatigue lifts.

Speaker 15 I'm in control of my day again.

Speaker 9 Take back your mornings.

Speaker 16 Visit clubearlybird.com and use code BETRAYAL for 20% off.

Speaker 18 That's clubearlybird.com.

Speaker 20 Tired of spills and stains on your sofa? Wash away your worries with Anibay. Anibay is the only machine-washable sofa inside and out where designer quality meets budget-friendly prices.

Speaker 20 That's right, sofas start at just $699.

Speaker 20 Enjoy a no-risk experience with pet-friendly, stain-resistant, and changeable slip covers made with performance fabric.

Speaker 20 Experience cloud-like comfort with high-resilience foam that's hypoallergenic and never needs fluffing. The sturdy steel frame ensures longevity, and the modular pieces can be rearranged anytime.

Speaker 20 Shop washable sofas.com for early Black Friday savings up to 60% off site-wide, backed by a 30-day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not absolutely in love, send it back for a full refund.

Speaker 20 No return shipping or restocking fees, every penny back. Upgrade now at washablesofas.com.
Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

Speaker 23 You live for plot twists and never take the boring boring route.

Speaker 2 Sound familiar?

Speaker 14 Then it's time to board a cruise that feels like an adventure novel you can't put down.

Speaker 7 Virgin Voyages is redefining getaways with all-in-voyage pricing, over a thousand dollars in value, Wi-Fi, 20 plus dining spots, group fitness, and entertainment.

Speaker 16 The always included luxury you deserve without extra charges you don't. Simple, transparent, fair, no hidden charges, just smooth sailing with a side of thrill.

Speaker 16 Escape to the Caribbean, think Grand Cayman, Jamaica, Puerto Rico, with seven-night cruises that let you dig deeper into every destination.

Speaker 44 Or plan ahead for 2025-2026 with new routes to Aruba, St.

Speaker 22 Lucia, Iceland, and even the British Isles.

Speaker 23 The twist?

Speaker 13 It's adult only, so the vibe stays immersive, exciting, and all about you.

Speaker 44 Private beach clubs, themed sailings, onboard parties, and luxury cabins built for deep relaxation.

Speaker 22 You bring the curiosity.

Speaker 7 They'll supply the unforgettable.

Speaker 1 Learn more at virginvoyages.com or contact your travel advisor.

Speaker 30 As we continue our conversation with Stacey Tyler, Anthony Edwards, and clinical psychologist Dr.

Speaker 27 David Liesak, we wanted to hear their advice on how to approach children who are afraid to share their abuse.

Speaker 44 How do we help them feel safe enough to disclose?

Speaker 32 It's a question that comes up all the the time. How do we stop this from happening to kids?

Speaker 32 We normalize the conversation. We take the power of the stigma out of this by doing exactly what we're doing here today so that that can role model for people to do it privately and quietly.

Speaker 32 It's not about me going out and being public. It's about taking away the power.
which is done through secrecy and like breast cancer.

Speaker 32 Many, many women were dying of it because because there was shame about even talking about it.

Speaker 32 When we started to normalize that conversation, the energy around it just lowered the numbers because that's all we're trying to do. We're not going to get rid of perpetrators.

Speaker 32 We're not going to get rid of this disease, the sickness of pedophilia.

Speaker 32 But what we are going to change is our reaction time to it and that place where a 12-year-old or a 13-year-old might be able to turn to a trusted aunt or uncle or brother or sister.

Speaker 32 I don't see how we can absolutely come up with a plan. Here's a plan or here are the rules, right? Follow these rules and it'll never happen in your family or never happen to your kids.

Speaker 32 But it's being willing to talk about this.

Speaker 32 There are a couple of big things that we could jump at right away, right now, and that's institutional protection. You shouldn't have a place where,

Speaker 32 you know, unvettered adults can go and spend three days in the woods with children. That's just not okay.

Speaker 32 And we accept these things because we're accepting institutional norms that need to be looked at. And institutions need to be held accountable, especially when they serve children.

Speaker 32 And talking about it is really important. It's that simple thing of not calling it a wigwam or your horky-dokey, whatever.
It's a penis. It's a vagina.
These are things on our body that we talk about.

Speaker 32 We don't have shame. We don't have embarrassment about it.
And I mean, it's that kind of thing, I believe, that will help.

Speaker 30 Saying it out loud to a safe and trusted person is the beginning of a new chapter.

Speaker 32 Literally that moment when they had that first conversation where they said, you know, something happened to me when I was a kid. And someone listened and they were heard and they weren't hurt.

Speaker 32 That's all we're looking for, those moments, because that's the beginning of recovery.

Speaker 32 And all we want to do is start people on their journey because everybody recovers differently isolation is the killer no one gets out of this alone

Speaker 32 and finally what advice do anthony and dr lesak have for tyler it's the beginning of a journey that's a good one it gets better it's worth it it takes some time You know, and that's what you're going to be able to share as a 19-year-old that we couldn't share as old guys.

Speaker 32 And there's one other thing I want to make sure you understand this.

Speaker 32 In all this time that it's going to take that we're telling you to really heal, you know, it's an ongoing process. But you know, it deepens you, really does deepen you.

Speaker 32 You go through this process that you've already started on. You're building yourself, you know, not your physical self, but who you are.

Speaker 32 And that gets bigger and stronger. And the trauma stays the same.

Speaker 32 And so the relationship between the size of that trauma and the size of you keeps changing

Speaker 32 until you'll find yourself as a full of doubt in your 30s or 40s, and you'll realize that,

Speaker 32 you know, it's a much smaller part of you than it was. And in a weird way, the trauma has helped you grow.

Speaker 32 Yeah.

Speaker 32 It's true.

Speaker 42 Well, we just want to say that we appreciate you doing this for us.

Speaker 38 Thank you.

Speaker 20 This was huge.

Speaker 22 On the next episode of Betrayal, Stacey goes back to the Berks County Courthouse for the final part of Justin Rutherford's criminal prosecution, where he answers for his plot to kill Tyler.

Speaker 43 I was prepared to testify.

Speaker 31 If you're a man who has experienced sexual abuse or assault, or you know someone who is seeking support, go to 1in6.org.

Speaker 6 That's the number one I-N number6.org.

Speaker 16 Find a path to a happier, healthier future.

Speaker 6 If you would like to reach out to the betrayal team, email us at betrayalpod at gmail.com.

Speaker 30 That's betrayalpod at gmail.com.

Speaker 6 Also, please be sure to follow us at GlassPodcasts on Instagram for all betrayal content, news, and updates.

Speaker 28 We're grateful for your support.

Speaker 22 One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts.

Speaker 11 And don't forget to rate and review Betrayal.

Speaker 2 Five-star reviews go a long way.

Speaker 18 A big thank you to all of our listeners.

Speaker 22 Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts.

Speaker 40 The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Faison.

Speaker 31 Hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning.

Speaker 40 Written and produced by Carrie Hartman.

Speaker 39 Also produced by Ben Fetterman and Trey Morgan. Associate producers are Kristen Melchary and Caitlin Golden.

Speaker 26 Our iHeart team is Allie Perry and Jessica Kreinchek.

Speaker 13 Special thanks to Stacey Rutherford, Tyler, and the rest of Stacey and Tyler's friends and family.

Speaker 29 And to Anthony Edwards, Dr.

Speaker 34 David Liesak, and the entire One in Six organization.

Speaker 34 Audio editing and mixing by Matt Salvecchio.

Speaker 11 Editing support from Nico Aruka.

Speaker 33 Betrayals theme composed by Oliver Baines.

Speaker 6 Music library provided by MIBE Music. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 25 You know that feeling when your alarm goes off and your first thought is, why do I feel so awful?

Speaker 10 It's like being betrayed by your own body.

Speaker 22 But here's the plot twist.

Speaker 17 It's not your fault.

Speaker 6 Dehydration and brain fog are sabotaging you beneath the surface.

Speaker 2 When I found Early Bird's morning cocktail, I felt the shift immediately.

Speaker 11 It's this blood-orange mimosa drink that you mix the night before and you keep on your nightstand.

Speaker 10 When the the alarm goes off, you drink and it's like flipping a switch.

Speaker 7 Clean energy, no brain fog, no crash.

Speaker 15 I'm in control of my day again.

Speaker 13 Early Bird is clinically engineered to target morning fatigue from all angles.

Speaker 22 There's clean, natural caffeine, mood-lifting nootropics, and a supercharged electrolyte blend to combat dehydration. This is more than just a morning drink.

Speaker 22 It's a science-backed tool to help you take control of your mornings and own your potential. It gives me the energy to show up as the best, most accomplished version of myself.

Speaker 22 Discover how good it feels to rise and grind on your own terms.

Speaker 16 Visit clubearlybird.com and use code betrayal for 20% off.

Speaker 18 That's clubearlybird.com.

Speaker 43 Hey guys, it's Aaron Andrews from Calm Down with Erin and Carissa. So as a sideline reporter, game day is extra busy for me, but I know it can be busy for parents everywhere.

Speaker 43 You're juggling snacks, nap time, and everything else.

Speaker 43 Well, Gerber can help create a more parent-friendly game day because they have the most clean label project certifications of any baby food brand.

Speaker 43 So you can feel good about what you're feeding your little ones. I mean, Mac loves them.
You can't go wrong with the little crunchies.

Speaker 43 You just put him in a little bag or you put him in a little container and he's good to go. Make sure to pick up your little ones' favorite Gerber products at a store near you.

Speaker 45 Making the holidays magical for everyone on your list? It's no small feat. But with TJ Maxx, your magic multiplies.

Speaker 45 With quality finds arriving daily through Christmas Eve, you'll save on Lux Cashmere, the latest tech, toys, and more.

Speaker 45 So you can check off every name on your list and treat yourself to a holiday look that'll turn heads. Now you know where to go to make all that holiday magic.
It's TJ Maxx, of course.

Speaker 45 It's shaping up to be a very magical holiday.

Speaker 1 This is an iHeart podcast.