Radio Better Offline: Kyle Barr, Alex Cranz & Michael Fisher

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Coolzone Media.

Hello, and welcome to Better Offline.

I am, of course, your host, Ed Zittron.

And we are in a very intimate podcast studio on like 9th Avenue and it's a wonderful day.

The last episode we got lost, but it will not be happening this time.

All of you were very kind with the notes you sent.

One of you said, why don't you take a backup?

Thank you.

We never thought of that.

It's not like there was another issue that could have happened in the fucking radio station.

Anyway, today we have a wonderful Gizmos and Doodads episode.

On my right, I have the wonderful Michael Fisher, Mr.

Mobile himself.

Ed, nice to be back.

Thank you for having me.

And so happy to have you here.

Alex Kranz, the wonderful Gizmone gadget queen.

Yeah, I'm so excited to talk about the gizmos.

Me too.

But not the gadgets.

And I'm knocking my phone over.

That's staying in the episode.

That's where my elbow goes.

Yeah, that's what you feel like.

And there we go.

That's what we do before every episode.

And Kyle Barr of Gizmodo is here as well.

Hello.

I exist.

And he does exist.

So this episode actually came from an idea of, I told you all this now, went on Amazon, typed in gadgets.

Because I was like, I haven't, like, I mostly spend money on Diet Coke and occasional baseball games and flights

and like weird protein snacks.

I don't really like, so I was like, you know what?

I want some doodads.

I want to see what gadgets are going.

Typed in gadgets into Amazon.

Fuck all appeared.

It was like phones and laptops.

I'm like, I don't need a new phone or laptop.

I'm happy with those.

I want something weird and stupid.

And I genuinely was like.

Wait, why is it so hard to find these?

You go on a tech site these days.

It's all about fucking AI.

So I brought you all together to talk about the weird stuff you've been looking at.

And Michael, one of my favorite things you do is you've been the flip phone

foldable advocate.

And honestly, I'm deeply jealous you're on Android.

I'm so addicted to iMessage, but so much fun.

You've got a device in front of you.

I do.

And the Honor Magic V5, which you cannot buy here.

One of the world, you cannot buy it here.

No.

One of the world's thinnest foldables.

The thinnest foldable if you decide to lie about it in your spec sheet.

Yeah.

It's gorgeous.

Yeah.

And this thing is, and obviously we'll have links in there, but this thing is you can see the crease, but you can't really when you're looking at it.

No.

I find these things magnificent.

I realize that they're imperfect, but I think they're just lovely.

And there's rumors that Mark German was tweeting earlier about Apple's foldable.

Please do it.

Please do the Apple fold.

That's all I want.

Cosign.

Yeah.

Big agree.

I mean, I want this, but not Android and sold in the United States.

Yeah.

And no huge camera bump.

Oh, see, I like the camera bump.

I think it gives it all kinds of characters.

I mean, it does.

Slap a big

quad Oreo?

The quad stuff or whatever?

Slap a big one of those over there.

I prefer.

So this thing has a giant circular blob coming out of it, like a giant moon crater.

I love that.

The size of a thing you would stick

a phone onto, a magnetic phone thing, like a fairly large circle.

I prefer that to the weird boils coming off my iPhone.

The camera bump, the panel.

And you get a case on, so you've now got a raised bit with three.

And I don't know.

I don't like that.

I don't think it looks good.

I like that it captures all of the lint.

Yes.

Anytime I put it in my pocket, I like that there's a bunch of crap on, and also just a new thing for me to scratch.

Yeah, it's the best.

I love it.

I think that what we're running up against, though, is we're approaching the limits of the current interfaces we have.

I think that we are, the current tablet phone interfaces and the current laptop phone interfaces are just kind of maxed out.

And I'm wondering if the next thing is just foldables and extendables and all this shit.

Not according to Mark Zuckerberg.

Mark Zuckerberg is.

Mark Zuckerberg has

reimagined his AI department four times in the last year.

It's so cool.

I love that this, he's going to apparently release a wrist thingy.

Yeah, yeah, you know, he's doing the wrist stuff for better tracking.

So do you have any idea, Alex, what he's doing?

Yeah, so his whole conceit until AI came around was that the metaverse was going to be the next big thing.

He's since changed his tune, except for presumably at,

what is it, Kinect back in next month.

And one of the things he's doing is making it easier to track.

Track your hands and stuff.

When When you put on these headsets, whether it's the Apple Vision Pro or the Doculus.

Which is cool.

Yeah, they're cool.

But when you put them on, you do hand tracking.

And it's kind of like,

okay, but not great.

Yeah.

It's like good enough for some like games, like, but even then, you're just still using the controllers anyway.

Right.

And this, this, this bracelet, you know, we've seen this before.

I think Leap did it like 10 years ago.

Oh, yeah.

And, but it really is meant to just be better at tracking you and tracking your hand movements.

To be clear, you have to be in VR for this to mean anything, right?

You have to first have Oculus on your head.

Be wearing glasses.

That's the whole thing.

They're moving towards the one day when they can do the glasses.

But

everyone's been promising glasses for 10 years.

But props, though, we have to, I have to say, the Ray-Bans are outstanding for content capture.

I think we all agree on that.

They're really, really good from a phone call perspective for listening to music.

Wait, wait, wait, phone call work.

How's the phone, how's that work?

It's just, it's a Bluetooth connection to your phone, just like earbuds.

Oh, so it just connects.

Yeah, yeah, because you've got the.

I'm putting my hands in front of the mic.

Take that back.

Yeah, yeah, because you've got the microphones in the nose piece of the glasses, so it listens really, really well.

And you can hear music using the glasses?

Yeah, because you have little speakers shooting into your ears over.

They're really, really good.

That's really good.

And they're some of the best fancy.

I hate and love this.

Yeah.

It's cool, but it's also meta.

So, well, the tragedy of it is that those are practical benefits that we all love about them.

And they have a pretty good camera.

But Meta refuses to market them as such because they want to market them as an AI tool.

So it's like, no, you got to use Meta AI to ask what you're looking at.

And what's the best pool shot I can get on this billiards table?

It's like, no, shut up.

I love that fucking use case as well because it's like, I don't walk around being like, what the fuck is that?

What the fuck is that?

What is that?

Sorry, everyone, this is my first rodeo.

Like, I'm just like constantly surprised by everything.

But I hate that it's them.

It's the onion thing, the worst person you know.

Yeah.

Has a pretty good point.

But the thing is, Kyle, you actually, talking of glasses, you were looking at this Insta360 thing.

Yep.

When you were wearing these robotnik glasses

connected to a drone, no, this thing, I will link to it in the notes.

This thing looked fucking cool.

So, those glasses that almost make you look like Cayman Ryder, like that Japanese superhero, it's all part of this giant apparatus from Insta360.

You know, they make 360 cameras, okay?

So, what are they gonna do when they make a drone?

Well, they just slap a 360 camera on it, okay?

But then they also add the pair of goggles that's similar to the DGI goggles that you already can get.

But this one makes you able to kind of look around in a 360 space.

So as you're flying around, you literally can turn around and see below you, see above you, see whatever is happening around you.

It is cool.

As far as like flying around,

you know, there's other drones like FPV drones, which also have like a lot more maneuverability to capture

first-person view.

So it's almost like you can do flips and stuff.

It's like when you're in a video game.

Yeah, exactly.

That's so cool.

So, but this one is more just like experiential.

You can say it's like a quote-unquote immersive.

That's the word they like to use.

But I prefer to just say

you're a big floating head in a glass jar high above the ground.

Video games.

That's awesome.

I like it.

Even though I know in your review, you were like, it's imperfect, there are issues.

And actually, what were the issues you ran?

So, I mean, it's not like the best flyer.

There was problems when you're trying to bank.

It'll just stop.

what does that what do you mean by banking when you're trying to turn oh like uh and this isn't actually a product yet it's not out in the open it's going to be in like 2026 this is just like the first iteration and they're trying to show it off to people and they're really trying to make it like a thing it's also going to cost like probably more than two thousand dollars i can already tell

i can't hate the thing is this is not meant to be like for everyone and i'm glad someone's doing something different this is so cool you can look around a bit if you go like going in a weird canyon or something ooh, go and fly it like above something.

I'm glad that there's something happening.

Yes.

Sorry.

No, go, no, no, please.

I just covered something that is almost exactly the opposite of this, right?

Where this is this total immersion thing that you use outside.

And I just got done covering Terminal, which is this little tablet for the home.

I hate that thing.

Oh, I'd be excited to hear why you hate it.

Hold on.

Let me tell you what it is.

Terminal, take out all the vowels because it is, in fact, 2008.

And you put this in your house.

It's like $150 or something, and it's just an e-ink screen that gives you ambient information throughout the day.

It's like one of these Google Home or Amazon things that has a screen, except the screen is much less distracting.

And

it only refreshes once every five minutes.

And it doesn't listen to you, it doesn't do anything like that.

It just tells you the weather, tells you when the next train is, tells you how many city bikes are at your desk.

But it doesn't always refresh.

And so you're like, oh, it's not going to rain.

And then you just go outside and you're like, well.

Whoops.

Yeah.

So you're right, because it's this very hackery thing.

Not only do you have to tell it, like, it's not like an iPad where you're like, okay, refresh every five minutes.

It's like, okay, now you have to go in and tell all the tools you added that you want them to refresh every five minutes, too.

It's like a Pebble Smartwatch Circa 2012.

It's like, okay, well, we've got to tweak it.

You got to mess it up.

You have to tweak it so much.

But it was, I don't know.

I really wanted to like it, but the slow updates and it's just, it's very hackery.

And I was like, I'm too old today.

I don't know.

Maybe it was just.

Yeah, I appreciated it.

I liked having to put the effort in because here's the thing.

I take the ferry everywhere, right?

I don't take a subway because I don't have a subway near my house.

But to do that, you had to go get the API yourself from the ferry website and plug it in and do a

crazy stuff.

That's insane.

It was fun, though.

You want to nerd out, Ed?

I'm nerding out.

Okay, no, this is great.

No, you're right.

No, I like this whole thing.

And is it super customizable so it just requires the API?

Yeah.

I mean, depending on what you want to do.

Yeah, and that's like, what, 100 bucks?

150?

Yeah, it's just a little bit of a data.

Any subscription?

No.

Wow.

So is it, when you say the API from the ferry, can you code?

Did you have to code it in, or is it just you give it a token

API token and it refreshes the data?

Doing kind of

stolen valor for nerds because I'm like, no, you just follow the instructions of the thing and copy and paste it on the field.

That's fine.

Someone smarter than us has come before us.

I see that.

I put a table of contents into my newsletter today and I had to learn, get my editor to do the HTML and then explain how it works.

Yeah.

No, this is, that's part of being online.

It's like learning, standing on the shoulders of giants.

Yeah.

Like you get two kinds of redditors.

You get the one that's just like, I'm just a casual racist.

And then you've got the one which is like, I'm actually the expert in homebrew on PlayStation Portables.

Yeah.

And I'm like in the middle of you two.

I like the idea, but as ever, I'm like, what shit do I actually need to know every few seconds other than like what the last thing someone posted was?

Yeah, I think if I were, if I was like a YouTuber, if I was doing that sort of stuff, I'd probably want it more.

I'm just in my house smoking weed.

So it's like, I just need to know, am I going to get rained on when I go sit on the deck?

And it's sometimes good at that.

And I haven't plugged it in in at least a month.

Give it another go.

Yeah, I'll plug it in when I get home.

This actually reminded me of something that you posted about, Kyle, as well, which is the GPD-Win5, which is one of Kranza's favorite industries, the little

portable PC things.

It's so fun.

Because we're talking about like real, just like rinky-dink shit.

It has an extend, an external battery.

Yep.

So imagine, you know, you got your Steam Deck like handheld, except, you know, the battery life keeps dying.

You're like, oh, that sucks.

If only it had a bigger battery.

Well, they have a bigger battery.

It's just attached to a cable, and you just, you have to, you can slap it onto the back of it.

Have you held it yet?

No, no.

I mean, a lot of these companies, like, you know, a lot of the jankier handhelds are all like China-based companies.

Oh, yeah.

They're all just like cranking them out routinely, like GPD.

This is the fifth one.

So I have the GPDM Win4.

Yeah.

And it is, I love it, and I fucking hate it.

It is so large.

It is so much larger than it.

It feels doesn't feel as large until you've used it for one minute and you're like, oh.

But it scratches that itch, doesn't it?

Oh, it does.

It feels just like a PlayStation Portable if I take three of them together.

But I went and watched the video, and this thing, just for the uninitiated, is just a Windows tablet in a PlayStation Portable handheld form.

And it's cool when it works.

You can play Hades 2 and it looks great.

It feels great.

They took the keyboard off this year.

It's not

a keyboard.

No, you can see it.

I swear there's one with a keyboard you can slide up.

That feels like a keyboard.

That was what it went for.

I'm pretty, yeah.

And I like GPD, by the way, because they do just crank out these insane looking, like a, yeah, we've got a 10.4 inch tiny laptop with the worst keyboard you've used in the world.

It sucks, but it rules.

And you're like, ooh, why did you make this?

Who's buying this?

And it's like every Kickstarter is 10 million.

You're like, ah,

criminal enterprises.

No one is buying these things, but we are all loving them.

I love that they're experimenting.

But I actually, this is my control.

I don't mind the external battery.

I don't either is the weird thing.

Because, okay, I've I already have to do that.

Like with my Switch 2, I just review.

There's a case that I got that has the external battery.

You slap it onto the back, and now it's lasting four hours instead of two.

You already kind of have to do that with a lot of these handles, unless you're just sitting at home playing it on your bed where you have the cable right next to you, and you're like, oh, I'm running low, plug it in and go do something else or something.

Yeah, you get the 10-foot USB-C cable,

and then you get the even longer power cable, and and you plug everything together and you've suddenly got 20 feet of reach.

I mean

I've seen and I've seen a few people derisively talking about this external battery situation.

It's like, I don't know, I love my Rog X ally.

I really do.

But that motherfucker, if you leave it, it's like you hit sleep and it just, you're like, this will sleep.

And you come back in an hour and it's dead.

And it's just, oh, it woke up.

Well, that's because the Windows machines really struggle with powering down.

Like these handles.

I'm just going to say, I'm glad nothing has changed in Windows for the last 20 years.

Yeah, it will never change.

Windows will always be the most inconsistent handling of power.

I think Microsoft is truly evil.

I think the Microsoft, like they have such an open goal here with handhelds.

They have companies.

I know that they're doing an Xbox Rog Ally X.

And I saw fucking Tom Warren on the verge going, for the first time, you just hit a button, you go to Windows.

Actually, Tom, you could do that with all the ROCs.

Fucking.

But it's just like, they're like, we're releasing a special Xbox.

Did we change Windows in any way?

Fuck you, customer.

You piece of shit.

We laid off everyone who did that.

I will say, usually it's not Microsoft's fault.

It's usually these other companies are just not building the drivers and stuff to properly handle power management.

But it is also Microsoft's fault because the Xbox ROG.

What?

I didn't even hear about this.

Tell me more.

You didn't hear it.

It's just an ally?

It appears to just be a ROG ally.

It is basically a ROG ally.

They all have a weird, like, handheld.

Yeah, there's the Xbox grips that come along with it.

Okay, so according to...

I want those grips so bad.

So this is the thing.

You don't even need to get the new one, really?

Like, sell the grips?

Well, no, because if you want the grips, then you have to get the new one.

But the whole

thing with it now is that they've changed the software.

They're saying that they've limited

a number of stuff on the back end so that it should run better, it should sleep better, so it should be better with power management.

And this is a lot of shoulds, right?

Because

none of us have actually put it through its bases over a long term.

I just think that Microsoft is trying, but they're doing it so late, and it's coming off of like a bunch of stuff that happened recently with Xbox that made them look really bad, so it looks like they're trying too hard.

Right.

They had a handheld, it was long rumored.

I remember Tom was covering it at the verge, and then they just abruptly killed it because they realized I wasn't sure how far along that was, even.

Well, my understanding was it's fairly far along, but they were entirely dependent on streaming to handle it.

They got it.

And like Game Pass, yeah, Game Pass is great.

I use it on my Steam Deck, but it's not great enough to do it that way.

Yeah, we're not there yet.

Yeah.

This actually reminds me, I wanted to ask you about this at some point.

You said something about GeForce Now install, and I've seen stories about this.

What is this GeForce Now install thing?

Crans?

I mean, I just know GeForce Now, you tell me.

Okay, well, okay.

GeForce Now,

they just released an update.

So GeForce Now is a streaming service.

You have to play your own games versus like, you know, other, like Xbox's cloud gaming thing where you can use their games and, like, you're paying for the service.

This one, you're paying for the service to use their servers to download the games and play them remotely.

Right.

They've just added a thing where supposedly you'll be able to just kind of use your whatever games, like, not even on their list as long as a developer opts in, whatever that really means, if they're already opted in properly.

Then you can just rent out space on their servers to download that game and then basically just have a shadow PC to play those games.

Oh, interesting.

That's been going, I mean, there was the company Shadow.

Yeah.

That's exactly what I'm still around.

Yeah.

Well, are they?

This service sucks.

They're just really expensive.

And I mean, NVIDIA, the reason they're likely doing this is they have a lot of server space.

They have a ton of server space because it's NVIDIA, and they've currently made everyone's

401k beautiful.

For now.

For now.

For at least the end of this month.

Until Wednesday.

Till Wednesday.

We don't know that.

But yeah, that's why they're doing it, is they have all this server space, and it's like, why not make a few extra bucks?

Because it's not going to be a huge money driver for them.

But there are people out there who want to play their games remote.

They used to be able to do that when it first launched.

Yes.

That'll get a little more popular once we get one of the more gadget-y elements of phones back, which is this, remember Samsung Dex, this sort of desktop simulator that lets you plug your phone into a monitor and keyboard and mouse and it acts like a laptop.

Well, it's been just decrepit and gathering dust for ages.

It hasn't been updated in a meaningful way in a long time.

But now that Android, Google's is building it into Android 16 as this kind of mode that will not require you to have a Samsung phone.

You can have any Android phone running 16.

One of the things I did was, I thank you for reminding me about Shadow, because I forgot.

Last time I reviewed Samsung Dex, I used Shadow to play like Titanic Adventure Out of Time and other CD-ROM classics from my youth.

And it was absolutely great.

But wait, wait, wait, wait.

What does Dex actually do?

So you plug your phone into a monitor and keyboard and mouse.

You need a dock or something?

You do not.

A USB C doesb C,

whatever.

And then it just creates a desktop environment like Windows.

Except it's Android.

It's your phone.

So you don't have to find a Wi-Fi hotspot.

You've already got a cellular connection.

You don't have to move your files to it because your files are already on your phone.

Atrix promised us this when

15 years ago.

And the pad phone.

The Atrix.

What was it?

It was the Verizon.

Yeah, Motorola Verizon.

ATT.

Was it AT ⁇ T?

It was.

Atrix 4G.

Never trust that fucking guy.

Well, actually, Motorola's good now, though.

They've got the Razor.

It's a Razor Ultra.

We love that.

We love a wooden phone in the 40s.

Thank you, Lenovo.

It's wooden?

Indeed.

It's got wood on it.

You got wood.

You got got Alcantara if you want to get it really gross overnight.

And then what?

Fake

gross.

Yes.

Alcantera is like a fabric.

And that was what they put on the palm rest for the surface.

And it can get dirty because it's fabricated.

I want a Velore one.

Just velour.

Just flipping out a Velour razor.

But like two months in after you do like a New York summer, it's just going to be so disgusting on the front.

No one will ever.

You drop it, it like just absorbs all the stuff.

Yeah,

but you know, then it's your phone.

You've got a nice patina.

No one will ever touch it because they'll be disgusting.

Yeah, enough, right?

Like, yeah, I think it's great.

And I will say, I want Apple to do this fucking flip phone.

I want them to do something different.

I'm tired of it.

I want my, I have the most giant phone.

I occasionally go back to the smaller iPhone.

I hate it.

I want the big one again.

Except I want an even bigger one.

I want Apple to do foldables so bad.

You don't need to wait for a foldable.

I got just the thing for you.

You ever use clicks for the iPhone?

I do.

I have a Clix.

I have a Clix.

Disclosure.

I'm a co-founder of Clix.

I'm a co-founder of Clix.

I bought one.

I sent you a picture of me using it.

Which I appreciated.

Thank you.

That makes it big.

Just use that.

And it makes it clicky, too.

No, it's fine.

The thing is, I don't have trouble typing on a phone at all.

I just want the screen.

I would like my screen to be twice the size.

Well, you could just carry an iPad.

I do carry an iPad, and I love the iPad Pro.

I really do.

Is it for taking photos?

No, I'm not my dad.

Okay.

My dad, no, I love my dad.

He pulls out his iPad Meni, and it is just like the most like.

He's just like, put it down.

No, no, I love it.

I love the fact that he's into the iPad because I got him his original iPad whenever, like, the second, no, it was the first iPad Meni they released.

And my dad, he loved hearing this.

And he loved it.

He uses it all the time.

And I consider that the best sign of technology.

If, like,

an older users of it?

Like, like an older person who's just a regular person who does like a business job and like listens to the radio and watches the news.

Like, what are their use cases with it?

And the fact that he picks it up and uses it like as a pic, as a, as a picture taker, that's the term.

Picture taker, isn't it?

I think it's lovely.

And I think

it's a very good idea.

And look, it's me.

He's photographing me.

And that's actually really cool.

And this is.

And I get back to my thing that the UX situation, we're just at the limits of the current UX.

I think so.

And also my controversial opinion, which is the Vision Pro is amazing.

When it works.

It's so heavy.

It is, but when I say when it works, I mean we're talking 4% of the time.

Have I told any of you what's happened with my Vision Prime?

No.

So I got told by my good friend Matt Bambike, who told me that Metallica was on the Vision Prime.

I'm like, a big, heavy thing that's kind of lost its way and we're not really sure why we engage with it.

Sounds like Metallica.

So I get this thing.

I put it on.

It goes, you need to update.

I'm like, fuck yeah, okay, I'll update.

I update shit all the time.

I let it start downloading.

I pick it up.

I put it down.

I pick it up.

The UX doesn't load again.

Yeah.

You have to keep this thing on your fucking head while you update update it.

It's like a 15-minute long update.

This feels like just the easiest thing in the world for them to fix.

And it's just, it's so annoying because there are, there are like several minutes at a time when I'm using the Vision Pro when I can make it work, which is not at the moment.

Where I'm just like, damn, this feels like the future.

It's a giant screen.

I can grab things.

And then like the headset moves three centimeters.

Yeah.

And now it's out of focus.

Have you used the Quest?

I have, the Quest 3.

And it's just like, even then, my strange skull.

Yeah.

Like, lots of people love measuring my skulls for different reasons, but it's just like the Quest 3 doesn't feel right, but it feels better than this.

Yeah.

But the Vision Pro has these moments.

And I think it's just because

it's less about the Vision Pro and more the idea of, yeah, an interface that we could reach out and grab and move around with our hands.

It's cool itself.

And it works when it works, but it doesn't work very often.

And it's just, the problem is, is every article is either this is the most amazing thing, which is not, or it's, this completely sucks, which it does a lot of the time.

Yeah.

It's in a journey phase.

I wish all the money from AI had gone into this, not because I think it would be particularly successful, but

we'd get somewhere quicker.

It did go into it at Meta.

It didn't go.

Yeah, $42 billion went into experiments doing air quotes.

Yeah.

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I mean that's what Android XR is supposed to be, right?

It's going to be first Samsung's Project Moohan is just going to be, you know, Apple Vision Pro, but with, yeah, it's so Samsung's making a Vision Pro.

It's going to have very similar like micro OLED displays.

I don't know if it's going to go the full like 4K, 4K or whatever bullshit, but it'll just be like, you know.

It'll be Android's version of Apple's Vision OS.

It's just going to be a little bit more AI focused because it's all focused.

Because it's Google.

Yeah, because it's Google.

I was using these Vitcha glasses.

Have you heard of these?

Yes, I've used them.

Are they weirdly intriguing?

You just put them on, you have a USB.

It doesn't try and be fancy enough.

You just have a cable, you put it in your phone, and you have them on your glasses, and it looks pretty big.

That's the best thing about Apple.

I like AR glasses because I just like secondary screens.

It's like, oh, okay, you know, they're good for a plane.

They're just a little bit expensive, but yeah, they do what you need them to do.

But then I put it on on the plane.

I'm like, all right.

I don't want to look straight ahead.

Like, it was just like immediately just like, this is cool.

Can I move it?

Nope.

This is attached to my fucking face.

But there is something here, I swear to God.

No, there is something there.

There's so much more here than generative AI.

Like with generative AI, I've not had a goddamn moment of peace in two years, but also not a goddamn moment where I've been like, okay,

I kind of see it.

And there were moments with the vision.

There's moments with the quest

where I've been like, okay, like horseshoes and hand grenades.

Yeah.

Steam game where you can just like pick up guns and it's like extremely realistic.

And it just feels so good.

And it's satisfying, like exactly the kind of moment that you're like, this is great, fun technology.

I fucking love the future.

Like the same thing when I, I remember when I got the original iPhone on Singular Wireless in Penn State.

And I remember the moment of like, wow, I don't have to wait for my voicemail.

Wow, I can just type out a tech, and I can move apps.

This is cool.

Those moments are there with XR and VR.

I'm actually like, I'm not like a fantasist about it.

Most of the shit sucks.

Yeah.

Well, I think what Google is going to say is that they've invested in AI so that the AI can go and actually fix all of the problems that the brilliant scientists and researchers haven't been able to do to actually make a pair of good-looking XR glasses that you can wear on your face that aren't going to be so.

It's so funny.

Well, so I spent almost the entirety of last CES looking at displays because I was going to cover other things and then I very quickly realized the most interesting stuff on the floor was eyeglasses for AR

applications.

And I used the Even Realities G1.

Have you used these?

What are these?

These are some very normal-looking glasses that, if you're a Harry Potter fan, you're really a fan of them because they kind of make you look like that.

But they don't look like they have tech in them.

In fact, the first ad I saw for them, I did not believe that they existed.

I'm like, you guys are just hitting me with a render, and this is Vaporware, it's never going to launch.

And I saw them on a friend's head, and I'm like, wait, are those they?

And you put them on, and they have a monochrome War Games-esque, like green text display i've seen these on instagram you know dude they are and they look

they do very few things but they do them all pretty damn well i saw chris velasco the legend over at washpo talking about them and they're great i kept wearing them for weeks after the review and what they do and

caveat i'm a sucker for notification dashboards terminal yeah smart watches this takes your smartwatch puts it on your face And so if you're just interacting, you're fine.

And then you look up and then you have a little dashboard.

There's all these machines.

You have to look up.

No, you can set it so that if you get a notification, it pops up right in front of you.

So if I'm looking at you, I'm actually reading my messages, and that's creepy.

So I keep that off.

I'm the other way around, though, where I'm like, I wouldn't want this on all the time, but if I could look up just to take a look.

Yeah, because if I see a notification, I want to chew on it.

Yeah.

I want to take a look.

What you got for me?

Absolutely.

And I love this.

And again, is this super useful?

It's useful.

Is it too expensive?

I assume, yes.

Probably.

I forgot how much it costs.

They look like you have to wear a leather duster with them whenever you're.

Yeah, yeah.

No, that's the thing.

So this is my main complaint with all the other stuff you're talking about.

And I'm sorry, I always bring out X-Reel just to beat on them.

But great technology, but when you wear it, it's freaking...

What is X-Reel?

You put on sunglasses, but you have four inches of, I don't know, foam between them and your eyes.

They just ride so damn high, and they're just because of the...

What is X-Reel?

They're like what you just described for airplane viewing.

They're like, you know, wearable displays that we're doing.

Yeah, they've been doing it for years.

But they're also working on an XR thing for Android.

Are they?

Yep.

Okay.

But it means a display technology that doesn't require you to sit like We would have a working Vision Pro by now if they'd have put the $400 billion into this shit.

Like that's the that's the actual thing.

If they wanted to invest in the future, even if it's not XR VR, if they put hundreds of billions of dollars into the next interface, and their argument would be, oh yeah, well, AI is the next interface because you can just talk.

No, I can't.

No, I can't at all.

I have a British accent.

Do you know I have to have British Siri sometimes?

Yeah.

Because sometimes Siri just goes, I don't fucking fuck.

Oh, no, my.

A lot of my family has really strong Southern and Texas accents.

It's incredible.

Like, it has not, nothing has improved from when Google first announced first issued like voicemail where we would transcribe it.

Nothing's improved.

Siri, Android, any of them.

If they've got a really strong accent and they're talking like this, then my God, it is not going to fucking work.

Oh, my God.

Just tap it out.

Yeah.

You have to.

People in the South and people in Baltimore just fuck.

Just absolutely fuck.

Give me that phone.

Actually, did you know that when you go to Europe, the Android dictation engine changes?

No.

GDPR, I assume, or something like that?

I don't know why.

All I know is when I'm in Europe and I'm trying to type and I'm like, no, I'll come to you, period.

It says period.

I have to say, no, I'll come to you full stop.

Oh, that makes more sense.

Yeah, it's pretty cool.

It's pretty smart.

Yeah, if you go around in England being like, period, people don't look at you at the end of every sentence.

Like, oh,

you seem fine.

But it's, I do think, though, that

this is a very dread infused time.

It's very doomery.

And then I see these little folder.

I see the fun device.

I'm like, the tech industry does actually have other things.

It's just I think we might have maxed out software.

I think we may have reached the limits of what software can do based on what we have as computing devices.

I'm sure it's not fully at the limits, but I'm just saying, as far as consumers go with using stuff,

what do you think, Alex?

I would say that it is more

laziness of the large companies.

The Apples and the Samsungs and the Googles and the Microsofts, the Lenovos.

I mean, well, the Lenovo actually

have fun.

They're actually better than London.

Yeah, Lenovo's actually really good at like, we're going to experiment.

And they're a Chinese company.

They're always trying something.

You know, a lot of, but primarily these American companies making gadgets and stuff, they don't try.

All of they're interested in is how can I get you to replace what you have in two years?

Yeah.

That's it.

And instead of being like, how can I get you to replace what you have in two years by completely redefining the entire industry?

They're like,

now you can use magnets.

It's longer.

Yeah.

And it's like, well, that's cool, but am I really going to upgrade my phone just for that?

I might.

No, I don't.

The people in this room might.

I definitely would, but you're right.

But with the people outside of this room.

Anybody have a case for that.

Yeah.

It's also, I think they've tried to do everything with one device, which is great, but that's where you bump up.

Like the limits of entertainment, I think, are we're reaching especially because watching,

I'm done with people telling me to watch.

I don't know how people watch like full movies on their phone.

Even the biggest, most hugest.

Oh, they're young.

They started.

No, I mean, I mean, older people, too.

Okay.

I mean, I've met people, and it's like on like a six-inch phone.

And it's like, what the fuck?

This is worse than an air.

My brother did that.

He watched Sinners, like, on his iPad.

And he was like, why does everybody like Sinners?

It's not very good.

And I was like, how'd you watch it?

Like, you know, in the middle of the day with the lights all on on my iPad.

And I'm like, well, of course you didn't like it.

Hell yeah.

Get it together, sir.

Watching the good, the bad, and the ugly.

I'm like,

on a droid, too.

You were getting attention.

That was a good phone.

I like the droid too.

That was.

And also, just to be clear, you can do experiments that suck.

I did also try the BlackBerry Storm back in the day with its like, it was a screen where you could just like do hap.

It was like you could press.

It felt like you were pressing in, but it felt.

It didn't.

It floated on a button.

It felt bad.

It felt like

a slightly harder version of poking some like Greek Greek yoga.

It was which is not the sensation I want while typing.

No one wants that.

It like had a clunk to it.

That was the one that like BlackBerry was like, this is going to save us.

Yeah, it was their big, it was so, it was like the homomobile of phones.

It fucking rock.

I love them for how bad it was.

Yeah.

They were like, we're going to, we don't need this multi-touch stuff.

We got this.

Yeah, we got.

You want your screen to move.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We want a screen that feels, that makes you feel bad every time you touch it.

And everyone else is like, we're working on that with different ways.

I also think that

it's nice to hear that there's some fun as well, because the AI stuff, and I'm not going to make this a big complaint fest about AI.

You've got the rest of the episodes.

But there's something joyless about large language.

It's not fun.

I'm not using any of it and being like, oh, how whimsical.

Like, oh, you're having...

They don't seem like they're having fun.

We're not having fun.

At least with some dorky, insane fun.

You're like, okay,

what are you going to find?

I mean, the vibe coders.

The vibe coders are having fun.

No, they're not.

Read the vibe coding, Reddit.

It's a bunch of people talking like they've been captured by North Korea.

Yeah.

Like, it's straight up.

Like, I love doing this every day.

I put three months of my life and thousands of dollars into this, and I have eight paying customers.

It's the best thing in the world.

It's so funny.

And you read it.

And they're like, yeah, I don't get how this happened.

And someone will be like, yeah, you don't read code.

You can't understand how this cat.

Well, I asked it to tell me.

It's like, yeah, that's the problem.

But it's like, there's nothing dorky or funny about it.

Even the metaverse was more fun than this.

It was more fun to make fun of.

No, it was like the metaverse, that first time you put on that stupid Windows headset and you had your big Windows playhouse, and you go and you put a giant dinosaur in it.

And then you ask your coworker to try on the headset, and they're like, why the hell is a giant dinosaur staring at me?

Like, that's fun, but you can't do that.

Yeah, it's hard to troll people with AI.

I mean, you really have to, like, you really have to think about it.

That's the thing, though.

People trolled a little hard because what I also enjoyed was watching during the metaverse, regular journalists being like, I'll check out this VR chat thing.

And just like getting the worst people online, a bunch of people dressed as knuckles just doing racism constantly, just like endless racism.

And a few 13-year-olds.

Yeah, just 13-year-olds saying the worst shit you've heard in your life.

And they're like, hey, I'm here from business magazine.

It's like, fuck you, you piece of shit.

No, it's great.

I think the journalists need to see the real internet occasionally.

Yeah.

But you can do that with...

You can just do that with the internet.

You've been able to do it for decades.

It's just, but the metaverse also, you saw some people try some weird shit and you saw a lot of grifters and all this crap, like whatever.

But it was like, at least someone was having fun.

Mark Zuckerberg was lying.

But also, people didn't really fully the metaverse.

I wish that they had put this kind of money into it because we would have got one really shit thing and one really funny thing.

Yeah.

And I mean,

to an extent, they did put the money in.

Like,

Apple spent a a lot of money on the business.

I don't think they did that because of the metaverse.

I think that they were planning it anyway.

Really?

I think I always felt it was like we need to play catch-up.

Everyone is talking about it.

Yeah, I can see that.

Apple.

But I refuse to believe it's been two, three years.

Well, it came out 2024.

I don't think they've only been working on it two years.

Maybe they accelerated it.

They've been working on it for a year.

Steve Jobs would have fucking killed them.

Can you imagine Steve Jobs finding about that?

He never would have let him get it.

He would have beaten someone to death with one of those.

Wasn't the idea that they were creating glasses first, and then they're like, this is the step towards the glasses.

And now, well, there was all that talk whether or not they're actually making the glasses.

Now they're back on, whether or not they're going to be smart glasses or AR glasses.

It seems silly.

Yeah, everybody was like, okay.

And this is the dumbest part of the generative AI moment is 10 years ago, everybody was like, we're going to have smart glasses, but they're going to be, you put them on and you talk to somebody because Alex is doing it.

And there's, and Siri and all of this.

So we're going to do it just like this.

It didn't work because we don't know how to interact audio-wise with computers and stuff.

It's not just like it is in Star Trek.

It's actually more complex.

You have to consider multiple users and stuff.

So everybody's like, okay, how else can we do this?

Well, we'll do the metaverse and we'll do these AR glasses.

And then they were like, wait.

We can't figure out how to make these glasses small enough with battery life, with good vision.

Like, we can't do all of that.

And then generative AI came out and everybody's like, you know what we're going to do?

That Alexa shit again.

i love that as well because alexa didn't work it still doesn't and it they were like well we'll make a new one that works worse yes and it's i haven't have any of you used alexa plus yet not yet not only in demos damn i was i really

when i read about that and they're like it's worse and it can you can be like yeah make me a recipe for like chicken pasta and it will tell you it and i just think that people need to accept that voice is not a good interface.

Just in general, I don't think it needs needs to be perfect, perfect.

I think it requires so much more training of ourselves, right?

Because you get...

But I don't want to be trained.

I want to use the thingy.

But you are trained.

Like, we're all trained.

We're trained to use our phones.

There are limited use cases.

Like, you know, turn the lights on.

Open the garage door, whatever.

But beyond that,

to your point,

it's required to be usable by such a wide swath of humans that it's almost impossible.

And we all want to do it just like Star Trek.

Absolutely.

I also think it has a very flat view of tasks.

I think that most people think that it's going to be, well, people like Sundar Peshai or Andy Jassy think that people go into their house and they go, and I will do this and I will do this.

Not me.

I'm like, what about that YouTube?

What about that Chrome thing?

Oh, I should read this article.

No, wait, fuck, I meant to send an email.

Send an email.

Okay, fuck.

No, I've got the information for the email.

Shit, why is it so fucking hot in here?

I need to make it cold in here.

Fuck, it's cold.

I'm going to put this YouTube back on.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, you can't multitask at all.

Right.

You also just can't do any context switching.

You cannot do it.

And I will do something which I think would be tantamount to suicide on any other day.

I will defend an LLM on your podcast.

Okay, go on.

I feel like it's probably a good mechanic for training these things to do exactly that because I have found the one enjoyable bit of using LLMs I have found is that I'll talk to Gemini Live a lot because I'm very used to, as we all are, doing a Google Voice dictated search for what I'm looking for.

But I love that Gemini lets me talk to it like my brain actually works.

I'm like, thinking about this thing, it's like a wrench, but it's not.

It's like a ratcheting socket.

That's probably not ratcheting.

Anyway, it's a vacuum cleaner adjustment.

you know what I mean and then she'll be like oh yeah I totally got it here here's what it is but that's another and then her return to to be fair we will be 20% wrong but at least she's gotten me no I'm not agreeing with you this is the use case of LLMs which is they are better at inferring meaning from what we say and they have found a way to do that which is just better search which gets back to the thing that you were saying Alex about how these companies are lazy because why doesn't why didn't Google have this 10 years ago how were there no other ways to do this and why is Google still not really like this in the search engine part?

You have to go into Gemini, and even when you, you can't type in to Google search that kind of thing.

When you try and, I will type in like cite the information a term, and it will be like, I don't fucking know, man, because I didn't write dot-com.

Yeah.

Because it's just, I don't know what possibly could cite colon the information mean.

Oh, you added a dot com.

It's a website.

My bad.

Like, I'm only worth, we're only a market cap of four trillion dollars.

Fuck you.

Well, they would say you should be using Chrome to do it.

Or Android.

I'm not in Chrome.

No.

I wasn't.

I'm still in Chrome a little bit because certain websites don't work because we live in the future.

I tried to switch to Coggy's mobile browser.

Worst experience.

I switched to Firefox and I hate it.

Sometimes some things just work better.

I live in Chrome.

Especially since Pocket died.

Now I have to use Chrome for all my mobile bookmarks and it has all my passwords.

Oh, man.

That's actually another thing.

It just really grinds my gears.

Bookmarks are the same still.

I don't use bookmarks because I'm chaotic and every time I save something, I forget where I saved it.

I just assume I'll remember everything.

I actually, no,

I genuinely do.

Like, I remember.

No, same.

Same.

Yeah.

And it works out.

I'm like, oh, my God.

He's horrible.

I remember everything, but at exactly the wrong time.

No, I remember everything.

Oh, yeah, I should look that up.

As long as I have the weirdest cues, like several words.

If you read my notes from my newsletter, they're insane.

There's like

three broken sentences with like a question mark and a typo.

I'm like, that's 16,000 words, babe.

Yeah.

Well, hold up.

I didn't have this on my list, but there's a gadget for that.

What is it?

The plowed or plawed

AI recorder things.

Oh.

Right?

What is it?

Those didn't work, I thought.

They work pretty well.

And in fact, you could say they work too well.

They make a little credit card size thing.

It's very thin.

It's very impressive.

It's metal.

It's conclusive.

I have a necklace, too.

Now, this is the notepin.

This is the thing that works too well.

They had a bug.

You want to know know what the bug was?

What was it?

That fucker would record when you didn't ask it to.

I have four hours of me snoring at CES on the notepin.

And I was like, hey, guys, you have to fix this because this is the one thing it can't do.

And they're like, ah, yes, we're replacing those affected units.

I'm like, yeah, you damn well fixed it.

I'm so sorry, though.

Now that is an impossible-to-buy device.

That's what I said in the review.

Anything I said.

Anyone who knows that happened to you, I wouldn't be able to buy it.

Nope.

I don't trust it.

You probably have because we all have phones.

And phones have definitely done that too.

I've more than once had my phone just be like, I'm sorry, I I didn't catch that.

And I was like, I was on the fucking toilet.

I didn't need you to catch that.

Yeah,

I like my home pods, but they do occasionally hear me and just go like, I don't know what that means.

It's like,

I was screaming to myself, thank you.

I was just watching TV.

I was just mad.

I was just saying some of the words that I say inside when I am upset.

Just even the PS5, the PlayStation 5 has that ability.

You don't know it because nobody enables it, but it actually works.

You can talk into the controller and control the PS5 PS5 that way.

And I turned it on, and I just keep forgetting to take it off.

And now I'm just like, I'm just talking with my brother.

And then the PS5 is like, Are you sure?

And I'm like, What do you mean?

No, PlayStation 5.

That's why I'm talking.

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I don't know.

And

I just, I want them to do more fun things.

I'm so glad to the fact that you, Michael, have this flip phone tab.

I keep looking at it being like,

but there's the trifold now, right?

Oh, we love the trifold.

China is actually doing, a lot of these Chinese companies are doing really interesting stuff, right?

Like Huawei is doing it.

Lenovo is doing it.

Apple is like, we'll get there in five years after everyone else has done it.

We can test it there.

One thing I will say is you can't do contiguous switch between the windows.

So yeah, when you're running two apps side by side,

I am exactly that kind of thing.

Android demands

you select your focus.

Yeah, so you can't be doing them both at once.

And that's the weird thing.

Apple used to, like, they had the Apple Hi-Fi.

They used to take fun risks.

And then Steve Jobs would kill the families of everyone involved.

Well, and they failed at a risk.

The

air dock.

What was that?

Oh, yeah.

The charging plate

power.

So for the listeners, there was this thing that now exists in 19 different forms where they were going to do this block where you could put your AirPods, your Apple Watch, and your phone.

And they would talk about it every few months and they'd be like, it's just around the corner.

They announced it.

They like shit.

It was like a big thing they announced and Mark German would just put out.

It's like, nope,

that's not going to happen.

And it was, it just, they just cancelled it one day.

And then Anchor and several hundred other companies.

Well, it was different.

It was different.

Yeah.

It was different than this.

So what Apple was trying to do was like

take those coils, the charging coils, and stack them on each other.

so it's one real small spot so you could throw it on anywhere on the pad and it would charge that is whereas everybody else is like no you have to have your little spots and I love I've got I've got one and it's great I use it all the time but air power would have been slightly cooler except for it was like melting things I thought

they couldn't figure it out one way or the other oh wow customers are so demanding like oh no I melted a hole in my phone but now we have like MagSafe obviated the need for it right because the magnets are better for end like it's like you don't it doesn't matter that you need to like discreetly place it because the magnets are going to put it there anyway and that's better for a bunch of reasons.

I will say there is an anchor thing that I have at home that I don't replace out of spite, which is it's one of the things where the Apple Watch component flips up so that the circle, except that thing, there are so many times I put it on, it just does not stick for some reason.

And every time it happens, I'd be like, fuck piece of shit.

Do I replace it?

Fuck no.

No, you just don't have to.

I paid my $50 and I will get every dollar's worth.

10 years later, I will replace it when I throw it from the window.

I mean, that's like all my GAN chargers.

Oh, the gallium.

Now, there's GAN is cool.

We love GAN is gallium nitrites.

We love gallium nitride.

Yeah, no, we really do.

I genuinely.

I mean, that's how you know it's a bunch of like nerds who love gadgets because we're all like, yeah, GAN.

And if you've not heard of gallium nitride, I've mentioned it before.

It's the thing where they basically found a way to make plugs smaller and batteries smaller.

I actually have like these amazing anchor things.

There's just all this cool shit that came out of it.

So great.

And Ugreen makes really good stuff too.

Ugreen?

Yeah, Ugreen.

I thought they were just the slot brand.

No, they're real people.

Yeah, but they have one on my bag right now.

And they're actually good because I've been looking for anchor alternatives just because

I've got a lot of people.

Yeah.

No, I like anchor melting things.

Yeah.

Anchor's gotten a little

recalls.

Things have gotten a little more expensive.

Ugreen, and there's a few others.

I like Anka.

They committed the ultimate sin long ago for me.

The same thing.

All birds did the same thing.

Everything company does that achieve scale is they go from building something interesting looking in a fun color with a weird shape to like, oh no, 80% of people buy the boring black rectangle.

So now that's all we're going to show.

Anchor's variety is black or white.

I actually

somewhat disagree.

Oh, come on.

Just because of the Nebula X1, which I talked about, is this insane $3,000 projector.

Oh, yeah.

You can put it in a weird angle and it will still keystone in.

They do claim it's like, oh, you hit a button and it just works.

Not for me.

I am the person you should bring every new thing to before you say that because it will break everything.

Has there ever been a projector that just works?

But it it does.

It gets about as close as you can.

It sets up in like a minute.

You can keystone it at the weird angles.

It's fucking cool and it looks weird and it's like really nice and like the wireless speakers just work.

How much is it?

It's $3,000 fucking dollars.

It's so expensive.

Good news.

If you Google it, you will get your first three results are cheaper alternatives that they're being paid to be put there.

Nice.

When I bought my GPD for Wim4, I ended up getting scammed by a Google ad.

I had some, and it was just, I was buying it, and I was excited to get it.

And I saw, and I am so resilient to these things.

So I was like mad at myself.

I emailed fucking GPD.

I emailed Google.

I was fucking, I was like, listen to me.

Fuck no.

No, I didn't.

And to be fair, GPD got back to me and like, holy shit, like, we're going to contact Google.

Google did not.

GPD was actually very concerned.

Yeah, because that's like their whole brand.

And it was just like a Chinese guy's G-vail as well.

Like, he had a fake, a perfectly good GPD website.

Did he just mail you a box?

No, I cancelled the payment.

Like, put it on a credit card because these things happen.

I haven't for a long time.

I was quite embarrassed.

But no, I like Anchor, and they occasionally will do something like the Nebula X1.

However, yeah, they are mostly just blocks.

They have them in different colors now.

I mean, the batteries, I have one that's like mint green.

Yeah, I think it's lovely.

Like a pink one in my pocket.

How about that?

I mean,

Anchor's like, you know, charging brand, it's just kind of stayed.

But like, all the other shit they're doing with all their other sub-brands, because now they have like 12,

you know, they have that UV printer.

That's really cool.

Wait, what is that too?

What is this?

So UV printers, they basically use a UV light on UV activated ink to print.

So sort of like thermal printers?

Kind of, but there's less heat involved since it's just light.

So you'll like it'll just, you can technically print on almost anything and it can print in 3D, quote unquote.

So if you like, you know, you're looking at an oil painting, it has those like raised edges where, you know, the oil thickens.

It can technically do that.

Cool.

Okay, okay that it's really it's very cool um and i got to use it i printed out a meme on on a

on a little magnet and uh yeah it looks really nice i can't wait to actually try it out more uh it's how much is this thing it's uh I probably around like $1,300.

I mean, it was more than that.

But that like a good 3D printer.

Oh, yeah.

Now, is this like one of those printers that I saw a number of years ago that's kind of like a mouse, and you run it over the surface you're printing on?

No, this is a big unit, but it's like other UV printers are like gigantic.

And this is like a tabletop one, which is why it was like big in the maker space for like a hot minute.

I don't know where it is right now.

And I've been trying to get a review unit in and anchor if you're listening, please.

So I actually do have a question for all three of you.

I keep seeing things on Kickstarter, but I haven't touched Kickstarter in years because of all the shit.

Is it trustworthy still?

Is it still dodgy?

It depends on who you're going.

Like some companies, big companies, will use Kickstarter to validate the market.

Like Unihertz is famous for this.

If you want an interesting phone, Unihertz is there for you.

They make all the like BlackBerry Revivals, all the ones with weird QWERTY.

They're huge.

They have a screen on the back for no reason.

Hell yeah.

Yeah, you know, you'd love a Unihertz.

Yeah, try it.

Every launch they do is on Kickstarter, and they, you know, I think they also use it as a PR thing because they know they're going to exceed their goal in the first day.

But it isn't 2013 anymore.

I run a PR for.

I know that doesn't work anymore.

But yeah, yeah, you'll see that with like,

it's mainly the big brands.

The smaller brands, I would still be a little bit more.

They're still dodgy.

Yeah, because you just run into this.

I mean, it's just the practical nature of building gadgets.

Hardware is really difficult, can confirm, yeah.

And it's only going to get more difficult over the next, because of the tariffs and stuff, I suspect.

Absolutely.

Especially Americans are going to have, you know, until we get manufacturing in the United States again.

It's going to be a challenge.

I look forward to that happening now.

Any day.

There is one that I actually invested in,

which is technically a gadget.

Now, I was going to save this till the very end because no one could possibly care about this if they didn't follow the moon landing program in the 60s.

Tell me more.

Okay.

This is a watch.

It is called the D-Sky Moon Watch, D-S-K-Y.

And it is not a smart watch.

It's not an L C D and all this stuff.

What they took, there's an Apollo guidance computer from the moon capsule and they shrunk it down to the size of a watch.

Oh my god.

Hell yeah.

It is not just an aesthetic reproduction.

It is literally the same computer.

So you can program it with like old 60s noun verb combinations.

And what I love, my favorite thing about it is, you know, in the 60s, you didn't have LEDs.

Well, we have to have LEDs in the watch to do stuff.

They came up with color filters to make the LED match the incandescent bulbs of the 60s.

Like, it's perfect.

It looks like an oscilloscope kind of like

this.

Oh, it's expensive.

But I'm going to get it.

That's what I said.

The minute I saw it, I think it was a lot of fun.

Holy crap, it's expensive.

How much?

$890 or something like that.

Look at their website.

It's £659

for the Americans.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes, yes.

Anyway, I'll let you know if I get it because I have backed it.

But what does it do?

It tells you the time.

It looks cool.

Yeah, that's fine.

It also is the guidance computer, so you can program it.

It is limited by your imagination and your coding ability if you know 1969 era code.

Of course.

Yeah.

Which I do.

But it's all open source, so you can actually do whatever you want with it, which is really fun.

It also has GPS for some reason.

I don't know.

I don't know what else.

Okay, while we're there, it's yeah,

I'm so glad.

I wasn't sure coming into this whether we'd have more doodads because it seems like there's still a healthy, but there's just not in America.

Well,

you can get stuff here.

No, sorry, you can get it here, but it's not American companies that seem to be driving this, like Ankers Chinese.

Yeah.

Well, I've got a couple, actually.

Oh, please, please.

I'd genuinely like to know.

You want

to pick up?

Pebble.

Okay, Pebble is bad.

That's you.

Why is Pebble back?

Because

people are so tired of their regular watches.

Yeah, yeah.

No, it's just they're.

Never should have died.

Never should have died.

They're doing e-ink watches again.

They start shipping this month.

I definitely ordered both.

What do they do?

How much do they cost?

You know, they're just watches.

Well, they're smart watches.

Yeah, they're smart watches.

They've got

heart rate monitors in them.

They do notifications.

Is it Bluetooth or ANT?

Ooh, I don't know.

Bluetooth is it?

And it's just a watch.

And you can, you know, they have a very robust user community.

That's the killer.

And what, like apps and such?

Yeah, right.

So that was the thing.

I mean, Pebble was the first one doing apps on a watch, and they did it well, and people liked it, and then they sold, right?

They sold to Fitbit,

who were then bought by Google immediately.

Right.

And it just died.

It killed it.

And the guy got it back, got the rights to people back.

And he's just out there making cool as hell watches.

Yes.

And I think the user community is the thing.

Because all these, I love a smartwatch, but the ones from Google and Apple are kind of soulless of necessity because they're corporate products and they're directly.

They're meant for the wider consumer.

Exactly.

Whereas the Pebble is like, wow, who made this weird ostrich watch face?

That's like, oh, some guy in Denmark.

Oh, that's cool.

I mean, the Pebble watch, my best friend, she goes to Orange Theory.

She's like, very, she drinks her Starbucks.

Very, I love her.

But she does not give a shit about smartwatches, and she's not going to care about the Pebble.

If I told her about it, she'd say, what?

Yeah.

And whereas an Apple Watch cares about it.

Yeah.

And it's just a perfect.

gadget.

And I'm.

How much was it again?

I think it was a good idea.

I don't know.

200-something.

Yeah, 200.

Yeah.

And he's only making small batches, so it could be cheaper, but he's only doing it.

It's like, don't ask me

how much I spent on these watches.

Yeah, right.

That's credit cards, eh?

I spent a lot.

That's future Alex's problem.

Exactly.

I already paid for it all, so it's not past Alex's problem.

Yeah, yeah.

I just get free stuff now.

Yeah, that's what I think about it.

Exactly.

That's how it works.

Yeah.

By the way, any other American American company, the light phone.

The light company.

Yeah, I didn't get a chance to watch your video.

What a trash friend you are.

Okay.

There's only one person I have telegrammed for, and that's you.

You don't even use that anymore.

Don't lie to me.

And I don't use it.

That's why I miss your messages.

But anywho, so wait.

So this light phone, was it good or bad?

The light phone 3

was

a very, well, it was a very 7 out of 10 experience.

Ooh.

Because it was basically half unfinished when I was covering it.

And what does it do exactly?

Very little.

It lets you do phone calls, text messages, and then a handful of apps that are meant to keep you as disconnected as possible.

You have maps.

You will never have email.

You will never have social media.

You will not have a web browser.

But like things to get you from point A to point B, except right now, no payments, no Lyft, no Uber, none of that stuff.

So it made life very difficult.

I tried it for two weeks.

I found I had to carry an iPad mini along with me, which...

The light phone does generate a hotspot so you can use.

That's cool.

Like, you know, if you want to pop open a laptop.

I really enjoyed experimenting with that lifestyle again of reverting to the late 90s when we had to decide to be online and then decide to be offline.

Well, I decided to be online all the time.

It's not really shitty.

I think it's worked out well for all of us.

Yeah.

So sometimes.

But this thing, is it what kind of screen?

Is it like a black and white screen?

So that is, in my opinion, it's shining.

achievement.

Like this is a remarkable piece of hardware.

I love picking it up.

It is like if you blew up an Apple Watch to, you know, by 4x the size and made it it out of black metal and glass and put a knob on the side to control your brightness and the screen is black and white, but it has this diffusion filter on it.

It does have a camera with a nice chunky dual stage shutter button.

Yeah.

It's an okay camera though.

Actually better than I expected to be honest.

But it's black and white.

I'm sorry.

The display is OLED.

So it is a black and white interface.

And when you fire the camera, it activates the color OLED.

This thing's so cool.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But also it's like the opposite of what I want.

Is it?

But I'm abnormal.

I I need to be connected.

I love being connected always.

Yeah, I was going to say that.

I am like a problem.

Try it.

Try it.

The second weekend, I was like, I get it.

I get

people who talk about presence and intentionality.

I hadn't gotten it.

But I also have the steel will of the Buddha.

If I need to focus on people, I can just not look at my phone.

Yeah.

Well, and I think this is...

What is it like to have restraint?

I don't know.

I'm unfamiliar with it.

I think this is the thing we see, though, from American gadgets.

A lot of the American gadgets are about disconnecting.

They're about taking a step back.

And And as we all look at our phones.

I was joking.

But that isn't the enough of the minimum of them.

You know, it's about how do we disconnect from Google?

How do we disconnect from our corporate overlords?

How do we disconnect from social media?

Those are the things driving a lot of American ingenuity in gadgets, which is like cool, but culturally like, oof.

Where are we as a culture?

I'm also the driving point.

I also understand,

like, that is cool, but it's also sad.

Yeah, because it's very, I get the sense that other countries and they look at technology They see like oh like regular people like oh, what could it do for me next now everyone's like is there a fucking way that I could stop using versus like Kate Notopoulos from BI business inside wrote a few years ago.

I think this thing is like I love my phone Stop trying to get me off my phone.

Yeah, make my phone better and I kind of subscribe to that and I know I'm a freak for like liking the phone and being online all the time, but nevertheless, it's like this sense of I want to get away from big tech.

I want to get away from my phone.

I want to do all this.

It's very sad.

And also, they're clearly building towards it by making, oh, we'll just control the shit for you.

You have no control.

You have no industry over this.

So there's a flip side to this, and then I'm going to stop talking about phones.

There's another philosophical approach done by a company called the Minimal Company, the Minimal Phone.

Now, they are much smaller than Lite.

They also have some problems fulfilling orders.

I think they're customer service, whatever.

But their phone is a good idea because the phone, it does the opposite of the Light phone.

It gives you all the apps you want, but the display is e-ink.

So you don't want to use any of them.

But you can if you need to, like Uber, which I needed a billion times on the light phone.

It didn't have it.

It was really

good.

That was really, really cool.

The minimal phone idea is a very cool one.

And I'm a nerd for this, but they put a QWERTY keyboard on there, which I also like.

Yeah, yeah.

That's just cool.

TCL is making a phone.

Well, they made a phone last year.

That's their NXPT paper phone that you can't get in the U.S.

And you can like swap it between a fake like e-paper screen and to a regular screen.

Yeah, it's not actually e-paper, I know.

But it looks, it has like a kind of like, you know, sheen to it that makes it look less.

Or you can just go and spend $10 on a matte glass for your phone.

That's what I did because I looked at that stuff and I was like, oh, this is cool.

I'll just put matte glass on my phone and I get the exact same experience.

I thought I would stop talking about phones, but you just made me think of another one coming to the middle.

Mr.

Moses.

This is my podcast.

Talk about the phone.

I don't care.

Fairphone 6.

What is this?

I have not paid attention to Fairphone Fairphone almost at all because it's about repairability.

Right.

Which is important, but I don't really care about it.

So, okay.

Fairphone 6 has a big neon green switch on the side.

And when you flip it down, it turns from a regular Android phone into a dumb phone.

And I like that physical trigger.

Because, yeah, you can do it with a custom launcher.

Yeah, you can do it through umpteen software options.

But having a switch seems to suggest more intentionality is required of you.

Well, and that's what I'm saying.

And switching out of it feels like more friction, a little more friction.

Yeah, exactly.

It's a little more friction, but it's also less friction in the setup, right?

Yeah, true.

Yeah, because if I, you know, you can do that with an iPhone, you are going to spend a very long time digging around with your iPhone to get it to that point.

Yes.

I think a lot of these problems come down to the fact that just notifications have become an invasion of our privacy.

That when you look at your phone, it will be like, hey, it's Etsy again.

Yeah, you bought one thing seven years ago.

You didn't delete this app.

Do you want to look at flowers?

Yeah.

And you're just like, leave me the fuck alone.

And Apple's just like, we don't give a fuck.

New York Times used to do breaking news for everything.

They'd just like every damn thing.

They'd be like, you know, Beyoncé is going to be in New York.

Great.

Why is that breaking news?

You can't fix this as well with the phone.

It's the companies.

They've made it worse.

And they make it worse every day.

And they're like, well, we'll give you control of it.

You have to do way too much work to do it.

To your point, you have to do way too much tweaking.

You can't tweak the notifications.

Well, if you have an Android phone, you can.

Yeah, and that's the thing where my message on a fucking Android.

You want to be be able to go to your phone and just say, fix it.

And Google keeps promising that.

And

have they delivered?

Someday.

I mean, speaking of the Fairphone, like, there's Framework is making really cool laptops.

I was just thinking.

I really, really like Framework.

And I don't

tell the audience to do it.

So, Framework's a laptop where all you kind of have to do is you get a bunch of the parts and you slot in the SSD, you slot in the RAM, and you kind of put the screen bezels on, and then you put the keyboard on, you screw everything in.

It's like, oh, it's a laptop now.

You built it.

I mean, it's fun because the company makes it really easy to do.

So you make, yeah, yeah, it's Legos.

You make yourself feel smart, even though they literally put everything out there for you and you just did it.

But it also means you can repair it, yada, yada, yada.

But the funny thing that I like, yeah, you can upgrade it.

I like the feeling of like ownership because half of the problem with ownership is that I don't feel like I actually own the thing.

I bought the thing and they're managing my life for me.

They're putting all the software on it that I don't want.

They're putting this program on it.

You can change how you use it with UX UX updates.

Yeah, exactly.

So I want to own the thing by controlling what goes into it.

And I feel like I want more products that have that ability to just, like, I can just control the hardware at least,

if not the software.

Like, if I could control both, I'd be in a happy place.

I'm more nerdy, but imagine if every laptop had that ability to just take off the back and like just swap things around.

Well, you were seeing that in gaming laptops for a long time before Framework came along, right?

Like, quite a few of them you can still swap the RAM.

Yeah.

Yes.

Some of them, although some of them are more soldered on, like some of the smaller 14 inches are

one of the tricks here is just for laptops, order the business laptops because they usually do have much more upgradeability because the big companies are like, no, we're not going to pay you that much for RAM.

We will replace the RAM ourselves or you will die and never get our business again.

And so they fix it for them.

Like, that's why you see that from Dell and Lenovo and the others.

On the build your own stuff, Kyle, do you follow the, or does anybody follow the the cyber deck building community?

Oh, yeah.

What is the I have a blast.

If you and if you want to have a gadget

binge, I would say just Google Cyber Deck builds on YouTube.

It's basically people are trying to like relive the the Neuromancer book.

And they're just building cyber decks for their neuroma.

What is a cyber deck?

Oh my god.

All right.

I was like, you don't know William Gibson?

So I'm familiar.

Yeah, Neuromancer, kind of like that whole cyberpunk era aesthetic, the idea of a like cyberdeck.

it's like you literally plug into the internet.

You know, you have this deck that you, you, and you sit down in a chair and you plug yourself in, and you're literally a body.

And the whole idea of a metaverse kind of stems from this, except

it's a lot more grungy and a lot more punk.

Right.

So, but the deck itself is like part of it is like it's personalized to you, right?

Like, you build it yourself.

So,

it takes the form in modern day of with what we can do of like little laptops, like kind of like the GVD stuff, right?

Except that you build up your building.

Yeah, I've done netbooks.

I loved netbooks.

I miss netbooks.

What is the functionality of a cyber deck, though?

What's it meant for?

In modern day, it's just basically what a little laptop.

Oh, it's just to be cool.

But the idea is that you're doing it yourself and it's your own and you're making it like, I mean, I don't know, like, are they are they using like Raspberry Pi or something like that?

Like that often they'll be built into Raspberry Pi or something like that.

But if you want functionality, the

MeshTastic is another good thing to look at.

That is like these little pocket terminals that are being built around.

I had to look it up.

An ESP32 system on a chip, which enables a lot of cool stuff.

And a MeshTastic network is like node to node.

You're not on the internet necessarily.

Each phone or each terminal is its own, is a node.

So what did Jack Dorsey just dropped an app for this?

Oh, God.

I mean, I've heard chat.

He's dropped several apps.

Yeah.

It's dropped a lot of things.

That's an app for the iPhone.

And if we all had BitChat, we could talk to text each other without connecting to the internet.

Like, it's a direct peer-to-peer thing.

I like that.

And the MeshTastic, like, there's a lot of handheld hardware.

They all look like Blackberries.

They're all really cool.

They're little mini cyber decks.

And it's just to utilize that network.

And you, again, you can build your own a lot of the time if you're more skilled than I am.

So I'm going to wrap it here.

And I want to end with a message that everyone should go and support Steve Burke over at Gamers Nexus, who Bloomberg has been fucking him up by doing bullshit YouTube DMCA.

He's coming on the show next week.

This is a ridiculous situation.

Bloomberg should be fucking ashamed of themselves, the legal department, and everyone involved.

Other journalists, including at Bloomberg, should see this as an offense against journalism.

And not giving him support is tantamount to not having solidarity with your peers.

Steve is doing some of the best work out there.

And I realize that's kind of a grim thing.

But one of the reasons I love all three of you is you really, in the same way as Steve, get into this stuff and actually know it and love it and are excited about it.

And I think that that is a dying art within journalism, especially within tech.

And I hope everyone's enjoyed this episode because I certainly fucking have.

It's nice to talk about stuff.

And, like, sure, there's bad things going on, and it can be kind of grim out there, but there's still people making dorky little innovations out there.

And it's worth remembering that the tech industry is not all bad, which does not mean that AI doesn't fucking suck.

Bing-bong.

Michael, where can people find you?

They can find me on YouTube at the Mr.Mobile, T-H-E-M-R-M-O-B-I-L-E, or on Threads at CaptainTwoPhones.

It's Captain the Number Two Phones.

Miss Kranz.

Most places, Alex H.

Kranz, Blue Sky, Threads, all those places.

And Kyle.

You can go to Gitsmoto.com and just look at the review section because it's me and like two other guys.

Hell yeah.

You can find me, of course, at betteroffline.com and on the podcast you're listening to.

Please subscribe to my newsletter and hit the premium as well.

We will have some really fun episodes coming up.

We've got, of course, the interview with Steve Burke from GamesNexis next week.

I will work out a monologue later today.

I am really loving doing this show.

Things are about to get spicy.

I have the spiciness in the air.

So looking forward to the next few episodes as things begin to collapse, because that's where we're going.

Peace out, everyone.

Thank you for listening to Better Offline.

The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song is Matosowski.

You can check out more of his music and audio projects at matosowski.com.

M-A-T-T-O-S-O-W-S-K-I dot com.

You can email me at easy at betteroffline.com or visit betteroffline.com to find more podcast links and of course my newsletter.

I also really recommend you go to chat.where's your ed.at to visit the Discord and go to r/slash betteroffline to check out our Reddit.

Thank you so much for listening.

Better Offline is a production of CoolZone Media.

For more from CoolZone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Hi, I'm Morgan Sung, host of Close All Tabs from KQED, where every week we reveal how the online world collides with everyday life.

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It actually really matters that driverless cars are going to mess up in ways that humans wouldn't.

Should I be telling this thing all about my loved life?

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You can find Close All Tabs wherever you listen to podcasts.

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