Clueless with Heidi Gardner

Blank Jack with Briffin and David

Blank Jack with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect

All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Jack

Why Should I Listen to You Anyway?

You're a podcaster who can't drive.

That was way harsh, Ty.

You should call me David.

Well, you're doing the character.

That's not how you do it.

I'm doing the character.

I'm in habit of character.

That's a character.

We had to do a flip there because that was the quote that jumped out to me.

And then I realized I am a podcaster who can't drive.

It would be unfair if I accused you of being a podcaster who can't drive because you love driving, even though I get the quote.

I have a quick question to the, and please our guests should weigh in on this too.

Is Ty rich?

Because like this is a private school, I think, or I think, or it's like a really nice Beverly Hills school.

It feels like it.

everyone there is probably like kind of well but she's got the new york accent to sort of differentiate her and she's a little more alt but like is like do you think what her parents are like you know music promoters or something you know what i mean like you said right before we started recording that this is perhaps the movie you've seen most in your life i've thought about this movie a lot they never They don't really get anything get at why she moved from New York to Beverly Hills, right?

It is an interesting question.

You have to imagine it has to be some kind of parent job transfer.

Yeah.

Right.

Sure.

Yeah.

Like, is it a showbiz thing?

She's just so New York, you know?

Yeah, it's a good question.

I saw, I mean, like, Fast Times at Richmond High, Amy Heckerling's other totemic high school movie is a film we talked about is very class aware, but it's also a movie that doesn't touch on parents at all.

Yes.

It is the thing on our recent watch.

It's locked in the first time.

You never see a parent in that entire movie, which doesn't feel like some stylistic choice, but it's it's just part of the tapestry.

This is a movie that, like, Hidey is the main parent you see.

Yeah, of course.

But I also feel like you're invoking the parents.

You hear about them.

You don't see him.

You don't see him a ton.

No.

No.

I hope that she's not rich.

And I kind of hate that you ever put that in my lap.

I'm so sorry.

I don't mean like rich in like an evil way.

But I'm just like, so

now I'll blow something a little bit here, which is that Amy Heckling wrote about this, right?

Like she in her um biography i think okay she talked about adapting emma jane austen's emma for clueless what does that what does emma have to do with clueless

and how do you transpose the characters right and she said tie was really hard because that character harriet is like of low birth right is like the idea in emma she's a little lower class and she was like i didn't want to like get into wealth like because then

everyone just seems like a huge asshole right like if it's like oh we're befriending the poor girl like immediately it's like, just throws it off.

So she went for New York to be like, that's how I'll make her seem different.

Which also makes me like a New York girl.

The heckerling insert character.

Right.

In a lot of ways.

Right.

And like, she dresses in a different, you know, she dresses in this kind of grungy way, which is like cool, but is different.

It is the very smart conceit of this movie of turning the class structure into just social click.

like hierarchy within a high school rather than within the outside world.

But some other interview I watched with her on the special features, I think, she was talking about how her intent was to like make an idealistic high school where as much as there is like factions,

everyone kind of gets along.

Everyone kind of has money to dress perfectly.

New girl feels like enough for me.

Right.

Just the new girl that doesn't know how to do her makeup yet feels like enough.

And she has her own heightened dialect.

Yes.

Yes.

Just, I have a lot of questions like that I want to pose.

Yeah.

Just because I've thought about this movie so much.

And when I first saw it, I was only dimly aware of all that stuff anyway.

I was just like, this is, I get it.

Like, it's American high school.

I don't know.

And now I think about it a lot.

David went to high school in the UK.

I did.

That's so true.

New York.

With boys only.

So very different social scene.

Yeah.

Not like this at all.

Yeah.

Did have the stoners, did have the jocks.

Okay.

Did kind of have the AV kids, I guess.

Yeah.

But not like this at all.

You had some kids at school who are sipping a bit of weed.

Sipping?

Yeah, sip a bit of weed.

So Griffin does an English accent sometimes.

It's accurate.

It's just

like a single person.

You get it.

You understand dialects.

This is what you do for a little bit.

Sipping a bit of weed.

Sipping a bit of weed.

Do you do an English?

You've done an English accent or two.

You know, I have.

And I, among friends, I think I can confidently do it.

Whenever they have me do it at SNL, I doubt myself completely.

We had a sketch this weekend that got cut where I was British and I was like, I'm kind of glad.

Is it an, is it an in-your-head thing?

Are there other things like that where you're like, don't make me do this?

Because I feel like you, you, you have tremendous range.

I, well, thank you.

I remember when I thought the first time I could do a British accent, I was practicing at home and then I called my friend Paula and left a message on her answering machine, just as a confused British woman that was like, Hey, Lori, I was just calling to see if we're still meeting tonight.

Could you give me a call back?

And I was like, oh, if I trick her, sure.

Right.

Then I can do it.

You know, and I was just waiting the next day at school, just kind of like, what, did anyone call you last time?

Any funny stuff happened on your answering machine?

Yeah.

How's your answering machine?

Do you give it a listen?

And she was like, yeah, you called me last time.

She just a British woman confused.

But do you think when you get self-conscious about having to do a British accent in SNL, it's still you flashing back to that from high school?

It might be, getting called out immediately.

Yeah.

Because is there any other stuff like that you bump on where if they like throw you an ask, you're like, oh, fuck, that's my weak spot?

I mean, singing is too.

I'm not a singer, and also they never put me in anything with singing, where at this point, I am just kind of like, well, I am missing good opportunities

where,

so yeah, okay.

The singing, but I've tried harder and I definitely commit.

It's just I don't always get the cue to come in on.

I'm like a beat late.

You do, you often do the singing singing during the like,

which is insane.

So I'm like, you guys use me when you need me for like a kind of a thankless thing.

I mean, I enjoy warming up the crowd, but then you don't put me in the show

doing, you know, a solo piece.

This is, I would, I would struggle with a lot of live comedy broadcasts on national television.

I think I would be a little anxious about all of it.

The idea of singing and being funny is so like face-meltingly scary to me.

Like, there's no way I could begin to think about that.

so you do think like i think in my head why i'm like bad singing is funny it is that's true it can also be so annoying and grading and i think our boss is that a little bit of that goes a very very long way and right more than like 10 seconds of that you're probably losing people yeah see when i've had like auditions and stuff and people ask me if i can sing my answer is always i can comedy sing yeah that's true i think i can comedy sing as a character but right people at snl have great voices and these music videos they're singing as singing for real yeah, yeah.

Comedy sing, I feel like, is a very specific thing, though.

But when you're up against people who like, can comedy sing and real sing, yes.

Hey, you know what this is, please.

This is blank check with Christian names.

Thank you.

I'm Griffin.

I'm David.

Podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion products they want.

And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce.

Baby, sure.

I was trying to try better.

I was like, specific.

Whatever.

I don't know.

I was like, what's the thing I can say instead of baby?

Sometimes they bounce well when.

Sometimes they bounce and sometimes they're bugging.

Sometimes they're bugging.

They are bugging.

Sometimes they're bugging.

This is a mini-series on the films of Amy Heckerling.

It's called Pod Times at Ridgemont Cast.

That's right.

And today we are talking about your favorite film of hers, what you often refer to as your favorite movie of all time.

Basically.

The one I've seen the most.

I really think that's true.

I think I've seen this movie more than any other movie.

The other movies I feel like I hear you call interchangeably your favorite movie: Jerry Maguire, which we've covered.

Basically, the same time and the exact same thing, in that it is a movie I owned on VHS that I would watch with my mom all the time.

You know, those they're they occupy the same space.

Yes, McCabe and Mrs.

Miller, you've thrown out.

Yeah, but that's more of a watch of a good movie, like, you know, not like you know, 10:30 at night, like, well, watch like 45 minutes of McCabe.

And then I feel like First Matrix, although maybe more reloaded,

not the same.

Nah, Master and Commander.

Master and Commander.

Yeah, sure.

Spirited versus Totoro.

Spirited away.

Sure, totally.

But this is my daughter.

It's Totoro.

This is one of your favorite movies we will ever talk about.

It's the number one.

It's the number one.

I was in a bad mood Sunday night.

Like a long day.

One of the twins blew a nap.

Right.

Tariffs paused.

Ah, tariffs.

I'm like, what do I do with my semiconductor money?

Do I go in more?

Do I put that back?

Sure.

And I put on clues and like within two minutes, I'm just in the most like wonderful mood.

Right?

I mean, just the, because it is such a bouncy, colorful, like, peppy movie anyway.

Like, it's very hard to be mad at Clueless, in my opinion.

Can I throw it a white hot take right from the beginning that I've sort of considered before, but re-watching it last night hit me really hard.

I think this is the character you most aspire to be in movies.

You want me to be Cher Horowitz?

I don't aspire for you to be Cher Horowitz.

I think you idolize Cher Horowitz in a way where you're sort of like, I wish I could be my version of what Cher is in her life.

Cher is,

she's on a journey of sort of learning a little self-awareness and like emotional kind of growth and all that.

You think I just want to like shop till I drop when I'm 16 years old?

I'm like a pal.

I do love to gossip.

That's true.

Here's a thing that will often happen.

And let's say our guest today

from Saturday Night Live, Heidi Gardner.

Hello.

Hey, Heidi.

Here's a thing that will sometimes happen in our office here.

Okay.

We're all just doing our little work before, after, record.

Yeah.

Two minutes of silence.

And then David just goes, What's the gossip?

What's the gosh?

You like to gossip.

Yeah, I do.

And I have, I have friends that also are the that pose the question.

The down.

So yes.

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But David does like focused on an email, then looks up and bangs his thighs like he's a king.

Bring me gossip.

I get it.

That's so funny that maybe I do identify with share more than more than i think like i that i mean that could be true i

i love the performance and i love the character and i love i i love jane austen and uh i was an english major and i read a lot of jane austen and i always say persuasion is my favorite jane austen novel which is about an introvert who hasn't gotten married and is very shy also your favorite dakota johnson movie

Moving on.

That's the one where it's like, it is period setting, but like they're talking like it's fleabag, right?

Yeah, that sounds right.

Yeah, I did see it.

Yeah.

But then I'm like, maybe I like Emma best, who's like a,

you know, a bit of a meanie and a little shallow and needs to learn, you know, a couple lessons, but kind of has a good heart throughout anyway.

I kind of like, she means well.

I think you like the balance of being a little mean and a little fun.

A little salty, a little sweet, all that.

Loves getting people together.

Yes, I also just love this 97-minute movie that has a great joke every minute.

Like, that's the other thing about Clueless.

It's not just that I love Tagas.

Riff just thinks it's.

I'm not, I'm not, no, I'm, I'm, I'm, like, there is a great joke in every minute of this script.

I really, I really, we could print it out and I could point here on every page.

That's a great line.

It jumped out to me.

I feel like there are less than five examples in this movie of something being a traditional setup punchline joke.

Like, almost every joke is something that is funny because the sense of the character is so well established.

Yeah.

Like, the sort of like, my surgeon says I should avoid activities where balls.

I'm like, that's a joke.

That's like a joke.

I mean, to be fair, it is a setup also for Dion saying, there goes your social life.

That's a great question.

Which is a great idea.

I'm saying that's a setup.

Right.

And then there's like a slam.

But you're saying that is a setup joke.

Right.

Right.

Most of the jokes in this movie are just like, it's funny.

That is exactly what this character would say.

You see how the way I swim about my shoes and they only go on my feet.

And every character's voice is so specific.

You know, it would be comes from

a cute little project for you, David.

I'm just imagining because you said you're getting a project.

You said there's probably a joke every minute.

Yes.

If you did print out the script, I think you should highlight everyone.

I know you have kids, but just

kind of like

share highlighting the September 3rd call.

I just like sit down and I'm like, yep, that one's good.

Just to honor the film.

I'm just picking up the film.

The ticket is the first notice that that, like, there are jokes like that where I'm like, it on the 20th time, you realize that Hediah knocked that out of the park, right?

You know, like, you're thinking about other things.

He says, yeah.

The ticket is the first notice.

I mean, I can't do Dan Hidaya.

Have you heard her line about why she cast him?

Uh, no, she said, I want the dad to be an actor who would play a hitman in any other movie.

I mean, that's what it was brilliant,

he's so good.

He's still alive.

Yeah, I was thinking about him because you know, he's pretty old, but he hasn't done a lot of movies in a while.

I used to

be two blocks away from him, the apartment I lived in during the pandemic.

Oh, yeah, over here.

And I had a celebrity spotting at peak lockdown where he was fully masked, and yet

the hair poking out from the t-shirt collar, wow, the eyebrows.

I said that is unmistakably dead to rights Hideo.

Yeah.

I don't need to see the mouth and the nose.

I know.

I know.

And he had the posture.

Yeah.

He's one, if you were smart and he wanted to still work, if I was making like good television right now, I would cast it.

Like he would pluck it.

Put him in a white lotus or something.

Like you would know, like him, a Joan Q Zack.

Those are people like put him in a show.

Let's get him to White Lotus.

Season 2 had F.

Murray Abraham, right?

And that's fine.

But let's have Dan Hideya like in that slot.

Let's do a White Lotus cast that is all 90s Paramount Comedy Supporting All-Stars.

Okay, so Larry Miller.

Yeah, put Larry Miller, Joan QSA.

Tray Mill is still alive.

He's still alive.

Yeah.

So it's just like a retiree's White Lotus is the thing?

Okay.

What about Alex Mack?

Maybe we call it the Grey Lotus.

Yeah.

Now I'm like, let's just have the cast of 10 Things I Hate About You.

I'm like, Joseph Gordon Levitt, Alex Mack.

Just get them all.

I know Heath isn't with us anymore.

Julia Styles, all of them would work on the the White Lotus.

I think that's its own season.

Julia Styles feels like

a major option.

They always have that person.

Yeah.

Like, oh, yeah, like that person who was sort of a big star and then like transitioned to kind of like TV star, right?

You know, like,

always works.

Yeah.

All right.

Heidi, welcome to the show.

Thank you.

What is your relationship with Amy Heckerlink's Clueless?

Okay, so.

It'd be funny if you're like, never seen it.

Can you describe it to me?

It was major for me.

And the big thing I remember about it is obviously seeing the trailer, knowing Alicia Silverstone from the Aerosmith videos.

I was like, that's the coolest girl in the world.

Then it's like, she's going to have this starring vehicle movie.

This is the best, the preview, incredible.

So my older brother, Justin, who's six and a half years older than me, he could drive at this point.

So if we were going to see the movie and we were movie buddies, it was usually Justin's pick.

So he was kind of taking you to the movie.

Yes.

But we were usually in agreement.

But I want to to say I had kind of blown the whole thing up.

I want to say it was this movie that came out before Clueless, Mad Love, where it's like,

yeah.

Check it out for dates.

Chris O'Donnell, right?

Yes.

And Drew Barrymore.

So that was May 26th, 1995.

And this was July.

Yeah.

Okay, so

I pushed so hard for an opening day mad love, you know, and Justin didn't really want to see it.

You know, I'm probably 11 or 12 at this point.

And, you know, he's into college and was just like, I don't want to see mad love.

And I'm like, what about when she, in the preview, when she holds her hands over his eyes and they're driving?

And then you can tell she goes psycho, you know, and is like scraping the walls.

And he's like, I don't want to see this movie.

I begged, I pleaded.

He was like, all right, fine, I'll take you to mad love.

Even I could tell 20 minutes in a mad love.

It was bad.

This is a stinker.

You're like, oh, boy.

And my stomach dropped.

And I was like, I'm not going to get to pick another movie for all of you.

It's a terrible thing.

You took your shot.

Yeah.

And probably at Mad Love, I probably saw the trailer for Clueless, you know, and was like, ooh, like, this is a good movie summer for me.

So you're sitting there as Mad Love is bombing and knowing, fuck, have I ruined my play for Clueless, which now is the next target.

Yes.

Yeah.

So I am now fascinated by I've never seen Mad Love.

It's an Antonia Bird movie.

She's a good filmmaker.

Yeah.

But this, I think, was her like, okay, I'll make an American romantic drama.

And nobody cared.

Yeah, I mean, they looked great.

Sure.

But I just knew there's few movies, Biodome is one of them, where I was so happy.

And then I knew this is a bad movie.

Ben's ears just perked.

Is that your favorite movie?

Bad movie.

I decided

as Cher says, you know, looking for love in high school is like searching for meaning in a Pauli Shore movie or whatever.

Right.

Yes.

I mean, it's trashy, but it's kind of fun.

We can't deny that.

I think I walked out and I was, oh my God.

I think I was in seventh grade and I was like, this is stupid, which was big for me.

I like stupid stuff.

It is so funny to me that they did that, right?

The thing where they built the biosphere in Arizona, right?

And people lived in it.

And someone was watching that.

I was like, what if Pauly Shore was in that?

Paulie in that.

Can we get like 10 million bucks?

Like, is that enough?

I love that.

Pauly Shore's been that.

Yeah.

It wasn't, that was a shorthand bad movie for about 10 years where I feel like other critics, just because the title was so specific,

would be like, not since BioDome.

Yes.

Has Pauly Shore ever hosted SNL?

Great question.

I don't think he has.

I don't think he has either.

I feel like I would definitely still be watching that episode.

But it could be watching it on reading.

So you thought you'd blown it.

I thought it was.

Clueless is coming out.

Clueless is coming out.

It's like a week before Clueless comes out.

And I'm like, Justin, it's the summer.

We were staying at our Mammo and Bampos.

That's my grandparents.

Basically, the whole summer, above-ground pool.

It was just like a good summer.

And I remember saying to him, like, can we see Clueless on Friday?

And he was like, absolutely not.

I was like, Justin, please, this means a lot to me.

It's a big deal.

It's the girl from there elsewhere.

He's like, I don't care.

But you're trying to sex self.

Yeah.

Like, hey, she's a hottie, her midriff.

We all knew.

It didn't work for Mad Love.

So that was your very morality.

That was what I'm piercing.

We're not seeing this.

So then he says, And, but I wouldn't shut up all day.

Right.

So he says, I will make you a deal.

So in the Kansas City Star, there was a movie critic, Robert Butler.

And Friday, when movies came out, you get Robert Butler's reviews.

And just for context, and that was our holy.

For 41 years, he was the critic for the Kansas City Star.

Yeah.

He was your definitive voice.

He was definitive.

And I feel like we usually agreed with Robert Butler.

So for context, like

it was a scale of one to four stars.

A movie like, and I'll probably get this wrong, but a movie in my remembrance, like Sleepless in Seattle, would have gotten a two and a half.

Like, he was, he was hard on comedies, like, totally solid.

Another David favorite, but that, but that's

speaks to even right.

He likes comedy.

Oh, it's okay.

That's high watermark of rom-com.

He's still a little bit thumbnail.

Yeah, but it's right in the middle.

It's a little better than middle.

And so you're like, we're seeing it, you know?

And then a movie like The English Patient would be a four-star movie.

Sure, sure.

He liked your Tony Oscar classics.

So he told me, we can see the movie if Robert Butler gives Clueless.

And I was like, he's going to say two and a half.

And you know what?

And that's possible.

In my brain, I think that's possible.

He said three stars.

And I mean,

everything I deflated.

Like my balloon of a person was like, there is no way Clueless is pulling three stars.

I just know it.

And it came out and I opened it.

And Clueless got three stars from Robert Butler.

And my brother was in the pool.

And I ran out out on his like raft, and I ran out.

This sounds like it's ran out of Clueless.

I ran out there, like, about to tell him, like, you know, like

America won the world or something.

And I was like, Justin Clueless got three stars.

Clueless is a teen movie that's way too clever to be wasted on teens, he says.

Three stars.

In fact, one would be hard pressed to name another recent laugh-out-look comedy that works so efficiently.

Wow.

He's very positive on it.

I mean, as he should be.

It's a really good movie.

But I have to imagine in that moment, not only are you like, I have won.

Yeah.

He has to drive me to Clueless.

You're also like, Clueless is legitimately about to be great.

100%.

Right.

You're not going to follow Butler's review.

There it is.

I'm so happy that that wasn't a dream.

It happened.

Nope.

But

that feeling of like, I'm not going to have a mad love on my hands.

Yeah.

If he likes this that much, I'm going to be in hog heaven.

Yes.

Yes.

Did he enjoy it.

My brother loved it.

Yeah.

He had to admit this is killer.

Yeah.

He was laughing throughout it.

And did you have like the greatest afternoon of your life?

Yes, because it, I mean, for a girl in seventh grade, clueless, who loved movies and comedy, but also loves aspirational people and women and girls at the time.

Like.

the way that it looks is so amazing you know it was just it's eye candy and comedy candy and and then just seeing like Wallace Sean, like, that's the guy from Princess Bright.

You know, you're seeing so many people.

It just does everything.

It checks every single box.

It does.

Yeah.

I

don't think I saw it in the, I would have been nine.

I don't think I saw it in theaters.

This was very much a movie I watched.

Like my mom rented it and we watched it.

And it was like, we're going to buy this and own it for life.

Like, and we watched it constantly.

It's definitely the first movie where I was like, it's based on like a a book that's like not teen

high school shit, right?

Like where that, because that became so popular, that format of movie was so big

in the late 90s, the, you know, 10 things.

Romeo and Juliet.

Romeo and Juliet.

But they're using the language there, but that was also a big me and my mom movie.

We saw that together in theaters.

This is a David and his mom episode, I'm realizing.

Yeah.

In my head, I was about to be like, I think Can't Hardly Wait is based off of a novel, but it's not.

I love that movie.

That's a good good one.

I think it could be.

I feel like there's another really obvious one I'm forgetting right now.

Yeah, what it fuck.

10 Things is the most obvious other one, but Clueless is the finest example of the form, obviously, and

just

hits that kind of high, low culture thing, right?

Where it's like, it's a dumb teen comedy in a way.

Yes.

I guess.

I mean, it's a very smart movie, but right, like it has the sort of aesthetics of like a bubbly, silly, forgettable.

10 Things kind of didn't hit at the time.

It did okay.

I mean, it did okay.

Okay, I just remember this movie coming out over the summer and then going back to school in September.

And every girl in my year, their personality was clueless.

Like it had been the most overwhelming cultural sea change.

Yeah.

I did not see it at the time.

I probably saw it on TV like four or five years later.

I think to a degree, I resented like, what is this thing I'm not a part of

that they're all obsessed with and that my mom didn't want to take me to see.

Why didn't she want to take you to see?

Well, you were very young when this film came out.

Yeah, I mean, I was

six, seven.

Yeah.

But what's all young for Clueless?

Every girl in my grade.

I remember one girl.

I'm doing like sort of the slapping of hands, screeting, like things that you could grab from Clueless if you're a kid watching.

I wonder if I ever confidently pulled off a whatever.

I just remember there was a girl in my year who said she had, she owned two copies of Clueless on VHS.

What a brag.

And I said, why two?

And she said, for when I eventually run out the first one.

Yep.

And just degrade the hell out of it.

Right.

But it was like they swung back with like a linguist, like they were all just speaking in clueless talk.

Can I throw out just a fun fact about me?

I, because I had multiple VHS of certain movies, et cetera.

My most insane version of her story was, I recorded Goodwill Hunting on audio cassette so I could listen to it in the car.

That is amazing.

So you like held your

tape recorder up to the TV.

100%.

So just to be clear, you had it on VHS, but you also had a cassette version in case you weren't close to a screen, but you just wanted to get a hit.

You just want to hear that Danny Elfman score.

The strings.

Yeah.

I, Paul Rudd, is in this film.

This is his first screen credit.

Astonishing.

Number one.

Yeah, because Halloween 6 comes out the same year, but I think came out more in the sort of Halloween range.

And people will forget now.

I'm sure you guys know, but Paul Rudd did, his career did not take off for years.

Like he kind of floundered or whatever.

You know, he was like stuck in like cute 20-something guy where he's competing with everybody, I guess.

And it's not till he's on Friends that I feel like he finally starts to pick up a little steam.

I mean, I think you're missing the other part of it, which is he's like a big fan of alt comedy.

Yes.

He's going to all these shows you know wet hot and

they talk about that like he reached out to david wayne and was like i'm a big fan of your guy's stuff do you have anything and david wayne was like this guy's been in a movie yeah this is the most legitimate person we know yeah he has something vaguely resembling a name even if it's sort of like what happened to the guy from clueless when they're putting together an indie budget he's a big boon to them oh yeah yeah yeah and i feel like somebody he's in roman juliet he's an object of my affection like he's in some movies

right This is like 95, 96, 97.

And by the time that Wet Hawk comes around in 2001, he had sort of fallen off a little bit.

A little bit.

And then it's like he's getting cool comedy cred, and then the friends thing happens.

That's when he starts to

40-year-old.

Who I'm just going to talk about.

Heidi, I'm not that obsessed with my mom.

He's very obsessed with this moment.

In 2000, no one remembers this, but there was a TV mini-series version of The Great Catsby starring

Toby Stevens and Mira Servino and Paul Rossy

as Nick Carraway.

Jennifer Tilley is not in this, so she must have been in a different Great Gatsby.

And my mom interviewed Paul Rudd for this.

Okay.

And she said on the phone, like, my son, like, is like a big fan of yours.

And he just went like,

clueless.

And she was like, yeah, yeah.

And he's like, yeah, no.

I mean, that's nice.

But like, clearly, he was like, I can't get out from under this fucking thing.

Right.

And it's so funny to think about that now, given how successful he is.

That's all.

Yeah.

Well, it's funny.

You were even talking about he kind of had like a floundering career in rom-coms until Friends, because a big part of the equation for me is Paul Rudd is from Kansas City, where I'm from.

So this guy, the fact there's a Kansas City in the best movie of the summer.

And did you like AC Boy makes big?

Yeah.

You clocked that immediately.

Yeah, I think we, there had to be an article in the paper

probably by Robert Butler a week later.

Look a boy does good.

Yeah.

That

it was just the biggest deal in the world.

So, even you saying that, I'm like, wait, well, when you said, well, and then Romeo and Juliet, it's like Kansas City Guy, that's the biggest movie ever.

And then Object of My Affection, because I was about to say, what about Object of My Affection?

Films I saw in theaters, but it was not a big hit.

It's not, not a, it was not nothing.

Yeah.

It's a good movie.

I like that movie.

And he's really good in it.

He's really good.

He's great.

And then being a comedy nerd and liking all the stuff and loving the state, when Wet Hot came out, we were freaking out that Paul Rudd was in it.

He's so good in it.

And it was one of those things where it's not just like, oh, yeah, they got like a famous guy to be fine in it.

I'm like, he might be the funniest guy in it.

What is this?

Yeah.

And that Christmas after it came out, my friends and I, there was a bar in Kansas City called Harlene's that you could get into when you're 18.

They did an ID.

And we went to this bar underage and Paul Rudd was there of age,

as you should be.

And we were like, oh my God, it's the guy from Wet Hot.

You know, and we went up to him freaking out about Wet Hot American Summer, and he couldn't believe that these teams

the flip of the clueless phone call for like, oh my God, you know me from that?

And then he took a picture with us giving like the stank face from Wet Hot.

It was, it was incredible.

He lived mostly in Lanexa.

What's Lanexa?

It's a like a Kansas City suburb or something.

I'm just reading about his.

I feel like it was Leewood, but I might be.

Look, I'm going by Wikipedia, which is not always right.

I was watching the Blu-ray for this movie, which is we're coming up on the 30th anniversary of Clueless.

Crazy.

The Blu-ray I have is the 20th anniversary edition and is basically loaded with special features from the 10th anniversary edition.

So it is a bunch of interviews cut into different themed packages.

That thing I love in that era where they're just like, we need...

eight special features listed on the back.

And you watch them and you're like, this is one special feature cut into separate chunks.

Right.

This is the same batch of interviews you did with everyone 10 years later.

And you're like, but this is 10 minutes just on the language.

This one's just about the fashion.

But it's all cutting in the same footage.

They talk to everyone basically other than Silverstone, interestingly.

And it was late that I clocked, like, huh, she's the one person who's not here.

Right.

But there's a bunch of Paul Rudd clips and all these people in 2005.

And Paul Rudd is at like such a transitional moment where like 40-year-old Virgin is coming out that year.

Anchorman came out the year before.

He's about to have the full comedy crossover threshold.

Yeah, hit.

And he's saying that like he got sent the script and was like, ugh.

And is like reading it kind of begrudgingly, where you have to imagine he's like, I don't want to do like shitty, stupid.

teen comedies because he's such a comedy nerd.

He's like assuming this is lowest common denominator.

And then he's like 15 pages in, I'm begrudgingly like, that's kind of funny.

That's like kind of a good joke.

And then he's like, I got to the end of it.

And I was like, this is actually really well written.

Like, this is good.

Right.

And then said he basically auditioned for every other character before Josh.

Wow.

He didn't want to play Josh.

He wanted to do Alton or he wanted to play Murray.

And he went in and was like, I want to read for Murray.

And they're like, Murray's black.

I was going to say, duh.

And he was like, I didn't get that.

Yeah.

You didn't get that?

How close was he reading this script?

It makes sense, though, if you like, think about Paul Rudd.

Woman, let me $5.

He's like, hey, I can do that.

He thought that was the

best.

It's a white kid who's obsessed with hip-hop and talks like this.

Okay, okay.

And Heckerling said in his defense, it's not stated in the script.

Sure, sure.

Right.

But you imagine, here's this guy who's this unbelievably handsome.

Right.

He's like a cute guy.

He's a good-looking guy.

Yeah.

But also has like this weird sense of humor that he's like, the thing I don't want to do is play the like heightened, boring, serious guy that she ends up with at the end.

Like playing the love interest could be constricting to yourself.

Let me play a silly guy.

Let me play a silly guy.

Let me play Alton.

Let me play any of the other guys.

And that they just kept being like, you want to maybe read Josh?

You want to maybe read Josh?

And he liked the script so much that he agreed to do it.

I have to imagine that the scripts he got sent after this was a hit, if he's reading the shitty versions of Clueless, asking him to play the Josh type again,

that's probably death to him.

Yeah.

Which is probably why he spent a couple years sort of floundering.

Right.

Because he didn't like cash in on the options.

He also just needed to get older.

I mean, it's the most boring observation in the world, but Paul Rudd just like, you know, just needed to hit his 30s and look even better.

But Object of My Affection is him like not doing the obvious rom-com thing.

Yeah, no, because he's playing a gay guy in that movie.

Right.

In the 90s.

Yes.

Yeah.

And I mean, he's in like Ciderhouse Rules, but he's got kind of the boring role in that.

Anyway, look, we'll talk about Paul Rudd.

we'll talk about all this stuff

ben what's up griff this is an ad break yeah and i'm just i'm this isn't a humble brag it's just a fact of the matter despite you being on mic oftentimes when sponsors buy ad space on this podcast the big thing they want is personal host endorsement right they love if they get a little bonus ben on the ad read, but technically, that's not what they're looking for.

But something very different is happening right now that's true we had a sponsor come in and say we are looking for the coveted ben hosley endorsement what this is laser targeted the product we have copy that asks is the product a porch movie it certainly is and what is today's episode sponsored by The Toxic Avenger.

The new Toxic Avenger movie is coming to theaters August 29th.

Macon Blair's remake of

reimagining, whatever.

Reboot of the Toxic Avenger.

Now, David and I have not gotten to see it yet, but they sent you a screener link.

Yeah, I'm going to see it.

We're

excited to see it.

But, Ben, you texted us last night.

This fucking rules.

It fucks.

It honks.

Yeah.

It's so great.

Let me read you the cast list here in billing orders, they asked, which I really appreciate.

Peter Dinklage, Jacob Tremblay, Tremblay, Taylor Play Page, with Elijah Wood, and Kevin Bacon.

Tremblay is Toxie's son.

His stepson.

His stepson.

Okay.

Wade Goose.

Yes.

Great name.

Give us the takes.

We haven't heard of them yet.

Okay.

You got fucking Dinkledge is fantastic.

He's Toxie.

He plays it with so much heart.

It's such a lovely performance.

Bacon is in the pocket too, man.

He's the bad guy.

He's the bad guy.

There's a lot of him shirtless.

Okay.

Looking like David.

David sizzling.

Yep.

And then Elijah Wood plays like a dang-ass freak.

He certainly does.

He's having a lot of fun.

Tell us some things you liked about the movie okay well i'm a jersey guy i just gotta say the original movie was shot in the town where i went to high school

yes yes that's right the original film yep i grew up watching toxy and trauma movies on porches yes with my sleazy and sticky friends it informed so much of my sensibility your friends like junkyard dog and Headbanger.

Yeah, exactly.

Making Toxic Crusader jokes.

And so when I heard that they were doing this new installment, I was really emotionally invested.

It was in limbo for a while before our friends at Cineverse rescued it and are now releasing it uncut.

But I feel like there have been years of you being very excited at the prospect, but also a little weary.

They're playing with fire here.

Yeah, it's just something that means a lot to me.

And they knocked it out of the fucking park.

Okay.

It somehow really captured.

that sensibility, that sense of humor, even just that like lo-fi, scrappy kind of nature that's inherent in all of the trauma movies and the original Toxie movies.

And they have like updated in this way that it was just, I was so pleased with it.

It's gooey.

It's gooey.

It's sufficiently gooey.

Tons of blood, tons of goo,

great action.

It's really fucking funny.

It just, it hits all of the sensibilities that you would want in an updated version.

Cineverse last year released Terrifier 3 unrated.

Yeah.

Big risk for them there.

I feel like it's a very, very intense movie.

And a huge hit.

More interesting, yeah, theatrical box office phenomenons the last five years.

Want to make that happen again here?

Tickets are on sale right now.

Advanced sales really matter for movies like this.

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Yup.

And Ben, it just says here in the copy, wants to call out that Elijah Wood plays a weird little guy who says, Summon the Nuts.

Can you tell us anything about that moment without spoiling it?

Summon the Nuts is in reference to a

psychotic new metal band.

Hell yeah.

Who are also mercenaries.

Cool.

And drive a van.

with a skeleton giving two fingies up on the grill.

And that's all I'll say.

Okay.

And they are the most dang-ass freaks of dang-ass freaks.

I'm excited to see it.

And your endorsement, I think, carries more weight than anyone else's in the world on this list.

Seriously, get your tickets now.

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Amy Heckerling, just to open our dossier, our research dossier,

makes Look Who's Talking.

And then she makes Look Who's Talking 2.

Yes.

These movies are hits, but she's very depressed.

The first one is

fun experience.

And she's like, they basically forced me to make the second one right away.

She gets attached to a remake of the Alan Renee comedy, My American Uncle, which is going to be called Rat Race.

Not related to the later actual movie called Rat Race.

But she was literally going to have rats running around in little business suits.

She was going to have that as a motif

that at Disney, they keep giving her notes and they eventually pass and say, quote, this is too smart.

And so she says, you want stupid, I'll show you fucking stupid like you've never seen.

Okay.

She also apparently worked on a movie called A Pyromaniac's Love Story, which does exist, a Billy Baldwin John Laguazamba movie.

I've never heard of that movie.

What is that?

I don't know.

Okay, cool.

Two initial sparks that set her onto Clueless.

Uh, one, she wants to center.

She's like, I'm so depressed.

I want to make a movie about someone who's happy.

Like, why don't I just like focus on the optimist, you know, rather than like

what I am?

Like, let me let me try to sort of get that going.

I mean, Amy Hepperling looks like a Tim Burton drawing if people don't have a visual in mind.

Yes, she does.

She's got dark hair, and she's you're right, she's very emo-looking.

Yes, um,

she has a meeting with Fox and TV,

yeah, sure.

And they're like, we want to do like a movie about cool people.

No, it starts out as a TV show.

The first Fox.

I'm just, we want to do stuff about.

They were like, we keep getting pitched nerd stuff.

Right.

Like, because the nerds are cool right now, like reality bites for all this problem.

And they're like, please write us a TV show about cool kids, the in crowd.

And it was intended as a pilot at first.

She reads the 1925 novel, Dental One Prefer Blondes, and she's sort of like, okay,

blonde, right?

Like the sort of the girl who everything works out for.

She also said that when she started doing it, she was like, if that's what they want, I'll write it, but I'm going to make it like so mean and vicious and satirical.

And then as she started writing it and getting in the headspace of it, kind of going back to the like, I want to write something happy thing, she was like, I kind of like this person now.

Yes.

She also, she watches old episodes of Gidget, which I've never seen, but Sally Fields sort of original starring role.

And she's drawn to how much she likes Gidget,

another kind of sunny character.

And Gidget, I think, has a lot of hardship, right?

Like she's

similar to Cher, who doesn't have much hardship, but doesn't have her mom is gone and she's just with her dad or whatever.

Like that, I think she's borrowing that a little bit.

I mean, obviously, it's just in Emma as well.

She's also apparently walking around Central Park with her friend Wallace Sean.

Her daughter's rollerblading ahead of them.

Everyone's listening to grunge music and and drinking Snapple, she says.

And

she starts thinking about a Clockwork Orange and James Cagney.

Her favorites.

And she says,

I love these things.

And what it's not the crime and the killing in those things that interests me.

It's seeing individuals who are confident and energetic and happy.

How did they get that way?

She's really in on, and she also loved Ed Wood, the Tim Burton movie, which is really, is about a really happy, charming guy, as much as he's crazy.

Well, it only comes out a couple months before this.

Right.

It is more that the actual.

No, it comes out a year before this, 94.

But end of 94.

I'm just saying she claims she was inspired by the real life figure Edwood and the Ted Tim Burton film, which came out two months before Clueless started shooting.

That's all I got for you.

Okay.

And

she loved Spiccoli.

She was like, I've never done Spikoli again from Fast Times.

All right, but obviously the biggest influence is Emma.

Well, the Jane Austen novel.

And when she rereads that, she realizes, like, this is my protagonist.

Like, I need to just modernize this.

What I heard her say in one of these 2005 interviews is they pitch the show to Fox.

Fox passes on it.

Her other project sideline, she leaves her agent, gets new representation.

They go, like, what have you been working on?

Let me read your recent stuff.

She gives them the pilot script.

They respond, why would you waste this on TV?

This should be a movie.

Right.

Whereas now, if I wrote a movie script, every studio.

At least cut this into pieces.

long yeah yeah but so then they said like can you come up with a movie off of this yeah and that's when she goes what's the larger story if i'm making one thing

connects to emma had read it i think fairly recently again and was taken by how modern it seemed and how many modern comedies are still kind of riffing on it that emma is confident and imaginative and like manipulative like felt so modern to her have you has anyone here read emma part no no It's a good book.

And I highly recommend the Ramala Gary mini series of Emma.

I think that's the strongest adaptation of Emma in recent times.

Obviously, there's a Gwyneth movie.

And there was the recent Anya Taylor Joy movie, which I thought was also pretty good.

Kind of nailed the whole

thing in Emma, which is not in Clueless, weirdly, is the moment where she's awful to the sort of flibbertage of it.

And Mr.

Knightley, aka Josh, says that was badly done, Emma.

And you're kind of, and she just like has an existential crisis.

Like she gets too mean.

It's so great.

Gives me goosebumps.

They don't do it in Clueless.

She kind of has her realization in other ways.

Yeah.

And Ty is almost the one who gets mean.

Yeah.

Yep.

That's kind of the moment.

But anyway,

you'd already write the the Gwyneth Altro Emma has happened

or is about to happen.

The Angly sense and sensibility is around now.

Like Jane Austen is getting kind of hot again.

Obviously, the big con for Pride and Prejudice is around now as well.

And she just, look, it's obvious, but she's, you know,

the town of Highbury becomes Beverly Hills.

Carriages become cars.

A ball becomes a dance.

The village is the mall, right?

She's like, this is easy.

And she invents this slang for the movie that is largely made up, right?

Yes.

Some stuff is real.

She had a friend who was a teacher and he brought her in to sit in on classes.

And she's like, I pulled a couple things, but it was more fun to actually just invent stuff.

Right.

For Christian, she comes up with his own like christian will speak like a rat pat character she decides like which is to me one of the funniest bits in the movie that only the dad calls him out on it it's like what is the matter with you

um and but everyone else like i mean buggin is real right but things like betty and baldwin and i don't know like a lot of the stuff they say she's just making up i think yeah which is funny that you guys are giving all this context because when I knew that I was going to do this podcast about clueless and I knew the whole Emma part of it, but I just forgot.

And I was like, just thinking about Clueless and definitely did my own rewatch.

And I was like, oh, I bet she was just kind of like, I just want to do fast times again.

I bet, like, in my

get back to that energy.

But I was real lazy about it.

I was just like, I think she just wanted to do that again.

And there's like, but you center on one character a little more and there's a little more narration.

That's it.

So she has talked about that after fast times, she got offered like every teen movie script and said, I don't want to do this.

And I think felt a very deliberate, like, I don't want to get stuck in here, especially as a female director in Hollywood, being like, if I keep making like

female-focused coming-of-age sex relationship comedies, I'm never going to be able to make it.

Right, I'll be stuck in a pigeonhole.

So she does these immediate hard pivots into like Johnny Dangerously in European vacation to be like, look, I can make like boy comedies.

Yeah.

Then Look Who's Talking is her like strategic rebound from two flops.

Have you you seen Look Who's Talking?

Yeah, but that one

oh, I only saw that when I was like six to eight.

European Vacation,

I recently saw again, which I watched a lot as a kid.

And I was wondering, I'm glad you said that was a flop because I'm like, this feels like a flop.

I had never seen it before and I like it a lot, but it is a weird, angry, mean movie.

And it's so brown.

Like the color tones,

I'm just so used to her movies being so bright.

And it also makes me not want to go to Europe at all.

I'm like, it's like looking at a bowl of beans.

Like very damp and kind of like dark greens, oranges.

I'm like, what is going on?

What I like about it is that it's a movie where everyone is awful.

Everyone pissed off in that movie.

But truly, Shawnee Dangerously was a complete flop.

European Vacation was basically a hit on the goodwill of the first movie.

But everyone involved had a bad time.

Everyone

shit talks that movie, including her.

They're like, it was miserable.

And Christmas Vacation is such a coarse correction.

We have to not do that again.

Let's get back to this and become so much brighter and sunnier.

And then Look Who's Talking is like, I need a hit.

I come up with this talking baby hook, but then ends up making this movie that's like weirdly personal to her, does the sequel.

She's talked about that I think by the time Fox reaches out to her and is like, could you develop a TV show for us?

Like a decade had passed.

And I think she was like, do I, is it time to stop running away from the fast times thing?

Right.

It was less her being like, it's time to me to do this again because it was successful.

Right.

But I do think she said, like, Spokoli is absolutely 10 years into my career, the thing I've created that has lasted the longest, that has had the greatest impact.

Like, whatever we synthesized in Spokoli is infectious and has stayed and has this kind of like, can I build the whole movie out of Spokoli thing?

I, I, I, I mean, I want to base my life around Spokoli sometimes.

Like, I, obviously, when you're a kid and you see, I just needed to take a left Spikoli turn.

But, like, when you see him as a kid, it's like funny and duh, and it just has stuck around for years.

It's iconic, iconic.

And then, as an adult, whenever I watch that performance, I'm like,

he's not even pushing it that much.

Like, it is so grounded.

It's very grounded.

And I'm like, what?

Because you look at it and it looks like a joke.

But then there's also just like he just seems kind of Zen too, though.

It's interesting.

You're just like, he's 70.

There's such a sensor to him of like, this guy has it figured out.

Yes.

Like when Mr.

Hands asks him why he's late and he's like, I just couldn't make it.

Like, it's just so.

That's so real.

It's like everyone else would lie.

And he's like, I just couldn't make it on time.

Almost amazing that Travis is in this movie.

Yes.

Because he is a spicoli type.

And yet, I feel like they find a gentler or like kind of like a slightly different energy.

Here's another thing she said when she's like reading the book and trying to figure out like who are the equivalent, what are the modern modern-day equivalents to the social types in this book, right?

And she's like, this guy would be a stoner, yes, but can I do stoner again?

Like, didn't want to do it because of Spokoli, right?

And then said, like, it's the only thing that maps properly

with the worldview.

And I just have to figure out a way to make it.

Because again, right, she's like, I don't want Cher to be looking down on people for really kind of nasty reasons, but like that he's just kind of a burnout.

It does make sense.

And she'd be like, yeah, he's amusing, but like, where do we take that guy seriously?

It's never the worst to him.

Right.

You know, I don't want to be looking down on Cher.

And it's why the title is so good where you're like, the fatal flaw of this character is that she just kind of doesn't get it.

In the book, Robert Martin, that character is like a farmer.

And the idea is she's telling Harriet, like, you can't marry him because he's too, like, basically, like, you're not going to jump the ladder.

Right.

Like,

and she's got to realize that she's got to stop caring about status so much yeah um but uh yeah uh he's an amazing and breckenmeyer is so funny in this movie he's so sweet he's so sweet i i feel like i'm i'm gonna paraphrase this probably very poorly but i remember reading some interview that you did years ago heidi

where you talked about how like your main driving force is trying to figure out how much emotional realism you can put into sketch comedy.

Does this sound correct?

Yeah, yeah.

To something you've said.

Just like, what is the most like real, visceral, and perhaps like unsettling emotion I can load into sketch comedy?

Yeah.

And I feel like it is a thing that Amy Heckerling is so good at.

Not that this movie has high drama in it, but like the same with the Spokoli thing of like, what is so funny about Spokoli is that he feels like a real person.

Yes.

And it's the same with the clueless characters where like, this is a movie where everyone is pitched at Spikoli level, whereas the miracle of fast times is that like it is able to simultaneously hold Spokoli and an abortion scene.

Yes.

And Jennifer Jason Lee is playing really naturalistic and grounded.

This is a movie that takes place entirely in a cartoon world.

100%

with perfect timing, and everyone knows the right thing to say at every moment.

And yet, every character feels like a real person with a real inner life and like hopes and dreams and feelings.

100%.

Like, and shout out to Travis Breckenmeyer in that because, you know, he does that speech where he does the accepted speech for TARDIS.

It's so funny.

And it's so funny, but it's even as someone who would love a role like that, I'm like, I don't know if I could pull that off, you know, but it does feel so real.

It feels really real.

He made it so real, like the way he thanks McDonald.

Without which, I would never be Tardy.

I mean, Ben, this is a character who probably speaks to you in a little bit, right?

He's trying to call you out.

Yeah.

He's into Marvin the Martian.

I was definitely in the stoner click in high school.

Okay.

Ben does a pretty good Marvin the Martian, too.

too oh

i mean even that moment where they're flipping through uh ty's drawings and they're just geeking out on marvin the martian and all their little drawings and it's it's because it's almost because of little moments like that where you are like oh these are real people they're doing such a good and seeing those off moments like

it all just fuels the monologues that yeah but i like that he goes through a change too i like that he gets kind of dunked on for being a stoner and has that realization of like, I should be better, right?

Like, I don't need to fall into this click per se.

Sure.

And I love to see that change in the character.

Yeah, it's like, right.

The thing they do rather than make it a class thing is like, this guy is lacking in ambition.

Yeah.

Cause his priority is getting stoned all the time.

And at the end of the movie, it's not like he shows up wearing a suit and tie and he's like, hello, I'm here to talk business.

It's just like this guy's gotten a little more focused.

He starts taking his skateboarding more seriously, which we love to see.

But I also love that they have this meet cute and immediately you're like, they have great chemistry.

They just should be in the camera.

They can get in.

Right.

Like any, every 20 minutes they interact a little bit and you're like, yeah, they still have great chemistry.

Every moment is so good.

And Cher is just like, no, absolutely not.

This does not follow the rules.

He, Breckenmeyers and Alicia Silverstone both went to Beverly Hills High, which is obviously like one of the schools that this is based on.

And he said he read the script and was like, I can't play this guy.

These are the guys who used to beat me up in high school.

Wow.

That he was like, I was the guy the stoners picked on.

Whoa.

Trekking Meyer is so cute.

He's so cute.

But I think

he should be in Shrek 5 and he should change his name to Shrek and Meyer.

I think you should think about that.

You have had that changed.org petition up for about a decade.

He seems great.

What's he up to recently?

I have not.

He writes for Robot Chicken?

Yeah, I know he's in the Robot Chicken world.

I guess that's what he's mostly doing.

You know what's great too, and I've learned this the hard way in comedy, falling on my face a lot.

And I, I get this note a lot from producers and Lorne, is,

but I see it with Travis.

It's like, even if you're a loser or a stoner, like, you got to play it joyful in comedy.

Like, you can't make the audience sad.

And sometimes it works, but like, for the most part, it's like, if you're, they're like, fine, play a loser, but love that you're a loser.

You know, like, he's loving his parties.

He's loving that he's getting called out about it.

And, you know, there have been a few times like in a sketch or something, I'll just offhandedly like, you know, mention like my crippling debt or something.

And like Lauren or one of my producers is like, why?

Why that?

You know, and I'm like, because it's funny because when I was a kid, that did happen.

And, you know, you have to laugh at it, but it's like, it is also sad to maybe talk about it in therapy, you know?

So, I mean, I like sad comedy.

Yes, me too.

He is,

he's like the quiet MVP of the movie for me.

Yeah, same.

And it speaks to like the fact that he is also coming at it from the same angle as as Amy Heckerling of like, these were the kids I like stood against in high school.

And now I'm trying to understand their point of view in a positive way.

Which is kind of, you know, I went to an all-girls Catholic high school and I was not a stoner.

And I, I don't even know that there was like a lunch table full of stoners, but I do know certain girls that I knew smoked weed and like, and that there were this group of guys that did too, that, you know, they'd hang out with him the weekend.

And I think I was just, it wasn't necessarily that any of them were mean.

They, they also, they just seemed like a level up.

Yeah.

You know, like they're a little more mature.

Yeah.

But they would have been, like, if you came to the party, it's like, hey, what's up?

You know, but then if you're like, oh, I don't want that.

It's like, okay, she's not chill.

Share's whole thing in this where she's like to tie, like, you got to stop doing drugs.

That's like not the thing that like success.

It's okay to get laced at a party.

Yes.

She's not anti-drugs.

She's just kind of anti-drugs all the the time.

Yes.

Yes.

But I absolutely had that attitude in high school without wanting to be a narc because I was scared of doing drugs.

Yes.

And I was like, oh, sure, you were like, you know, you're one of the one.

I just don't want to be involved.

Yeah, I just actually like retaining my brain cells.

Like, I had that.

Oh, you did.

Right.

Which I think is similarly coming out of this like fear of

that seems like an intense thing that I'm not ready for.

And so what?

Now you remember your life?

That must be nice.

You were just stressed out anyway.

That's all you're remembering.

Look, the advice is not good, by the way.

I just want to interject and say, smoking weed at a party when you don't smoke weed is worse.

The worst thing.

Yeah, you're just going to have a shitty time.

You just immediately get in your head and celebrate overstimulated.

Yeah.

Although she, she's, you know, she takes one drag and kind of just mingles.

She's, she, yeah, Sher handles most things with a plom.

God, God bless her.

Like, she does get her ass to the valley and like she's that person.

She doesn't struggle, really.

She doesn't have adversity.

like she shows up to that party in like a you know really really expensive dress and she somehow doesn't stick out or whatever's the credit card bill that her father is paying monthly do we want to try and guess look here's my like she wears a higher dress like we got a time

wow good good one i i have a list of some of my favorite we can get into it

we'll just well i do have that but just more like looks and like style ben is getting into fashion

i've only recently um

heard Eliha.

I thought it was a new designer.

So then when I did the clueless rewatch, I was like, oh, damn, Elihah's been around.

Yeah.

Expensive for a while.

How much would that cost?

That Eliyah dress at that time.

I mean, thousands.

Thousands, tens of thousands of dollars.

Here's my question.

Is

Mel

a good dad?

Because

on the one hand, he's got a bit of a spoiled child who seems to get whatever she wants.

We live in a mansion.

He thrives without a license.

Right.

He's a workaholic.

He yells at everybody.

But at the same time, he seems to have raised a relatively sort of emotionally centered kid.

Like given all of this,

like she's got a good heart, you know?

Like, and he kind of, like, they have enough moments together that you're kind of like, I think he's a little responsible for this.

The mom's obviously, she never knew her mom.

Yeah.

It's just an interesting question.

He feels present to me.

Like, he's

workaholic, but a lot of that work we see on site.

He's at home.

He's doing it at home.

For me, it seeing their relationship always felt like a dream scenario, especially when they bring home the like takeout, which

it just, I'm like, this kind of seems cool.

Dad's working a lot.

I get to help.

I get to highlight some numbers.

Right, exactly.

She's pitching in, like she's trying to instill some sort of work ethic.

Yeah, that's part of it.

He is successful in doing that.

And also, the journey of this movie is her understanding why to do things for other people.

Yes.

Because very early on, she is as much as she is.

She's trying to get him to drink his juice.

And she's like,

you know, this is what I'm saying.

Like, it's the balance she strikes here is impossible.

Yes.

Most movies, you just make the dad more of a hard ass or more of a comical.

Right.

And she just does enough to make their relationship feel very like grounded, despite how cartoonish she is.

Yeah.

You know what they said, which I thought was really interesting.

She was basically legally emancipated at 15, I think.

Alicia Silverstone.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Somebody had it quite dramatic.

They filmed this movie.

She's 17, but she's been emancipated and working for like two years.

She's done the trilogy of Aerosmith videos and she did The Crush, which was her one other movie.

That's her first big movie.

Right.

And this is also just,

I feel like Seth Rogan did an interview recently when he was promoting the studio, talking about how much the industry has changed in the last 20 years.

And he said, the way it used to work is we could write a script like Superbad and the studios would read it.

And if they thought it was funny, they would option it and green light it and then go, now who do we cast?

If the script was good, then you figure out who you can get.

And if you can get a name, you get a name and then maybe the budget goes up.

But if not, they've already committed to making it.

We'll get unknown stars or rising stars and we'll make it for cheaper.

And this was a similar thing where just to complete the arc of it, her new reps read it, tell her to write it as a full feature script.

It's set up at Fox.

it's being developed at Fox for a while.

Then her and Twin Kaplan have said there were a rash of movies that were seen as dumb comedies about stupid people that flopped.

I think a lot of Airheads is the big one.

Airheads.

PCU.

Yes.

But the big roadblock, Amy Heckling says, is that there was a movie called Airheads that didn't do very well.

Now, we all know Airheads, a funny movie.

And so the movie being called Clueless was hurting it.

That is until Scott Rudin.

Yes.

The king of string cheese.

Olympic phone thrower Scott Rudin gets his hand on the script.

He had just produced The Addams family.

He also produced The Firm.

And the minute he gets his hand on the script, there's a bidding war.

She's like, great.

Nothing had changed about the project.

Didn't change a comment.

His involvement just gets Fox drops it, puts it in turnaround.

He reads it, says this is good.

And then everyone bids against it competitively.

Paramount, she's thrilled with because she's like, they own MTV and Nickelodeon.

They have like the distribution systems to promote this to the audience we need to get to.

But then immediately is like, I want to cast Alicia Silverstone.

I think she had Alicia Silverstone in mind, even when it was set up at Fox.

Yes, she always wanted the crush girl slash the Aerosmith girl.

And was like, you know, she's untested as a movie star.

And yet they were just like, she's kind of buzzy.

Fox wanted Reese Witherspoon or Angelina Jolie.

Wow.

Crazy to think about.

Yeah.

Heckerling was dead set on her.

Alicia Witt apparently read and came close.

Tiffany Thiessen coming off of Save by the Bell.

Carrie Russell was considered for this role.

There was another girl that they were like, you got to go see this girl.

She's in this movie called Flesh and Bone, Gwyneth Paltrow.

Heckerling didn't get around to seeing it.

Josh was a nightmare to cast.

Adam Horowitz was her first choice.

That kind of makes sense.

Yeah, totally.

Ben Affleck was, I mean, it's just these names where you're like, Jesus, all these guys are just floating around.

What's crazy about it, too, is sometimes you read about these like casting what-ifs, and you're like, bullet dodge.

They ended up with the only person who could have played this.

I think they landed on the best cast possible, and yet you read the alternates, and it speaks to like a generation of talent bubbling.

Totally.

Where you're like, Chappelle was like number two for Murray, right?

Yeah, you know, they're all these, yeah, it could all work.

Yeah, but um, she's 17 when they film this,

and

Heckerling and Kaplan said, like, when she got on set and just started on the first day, she so immediately had it, and she was bringing the missing piece that we couldn't have written, which was there was an innocence to her and a childlike quality to her and like a guilelessness that was just came out of her actually being that young.

And like the Haitians thing was actually just her mispronouncing that word.

Right.

And she went to the crew and was like, no one correct her.

We couldn't have planned this better.

It says so much about the character.

And she's nailing this monologue.

No one make herself conscious about it.

She rocks.

Also considered, okay, whatever.

Britney Murphy is brought in very early and she is just like Ty, right?

Like that's just such a natural performance.

She's so good.

We all love Britney Murphy, obviously.

Dan Hidea, she wanted Harvey Keitel, but he was too expensive.

But that's the vibe she was going for.

She saw Blood Simple and was like, that guy.

Lauren Hill was the first choice for Dion, or was it the one that Stacey Dash beat out?

Stacey Dash is very good in this movie.

Famously 29 years old.

She is.

She does read older too.

Yes.

But I just like that she's meaner, but not too mean.

Yeah.

If that makes sense.

So tall.

And like that she's kind of like, all right, Cher.

You know, like when Cher wants to do something nice.

And then she's like, eh, this is kind of fun.

But like, she's not that nice, but she's nice enough.

She feels grown up, though.

Yes.

Twin Kaplan, who I keep on referencing, who plays Miss Guys.

She's also her producer.

What's the associate producer and is like Heck Erlings, one of her closest collaborators.

She said this thing that I've never considered before.

Sarah Michelle Galler was the runner-up for Amber.

Yes.

Oh, sorry.

That just makes a lot of sense of, I think, a thing I love about teen movies is she was like, the great thing about making teen movies is you get to cast new people who are so full of energy and so eager to prove themselves.

If you have a cast of like 20 teenagers, you're getting all these people who are like just trying to make their mark.

And they show up to set with so much energy and so much like creativity and so many ideas and want to bond too because that's bad.

You just want to make friends.

And then you, you know, people in their 30s and 40s are just kind of like, I need my alone time.

Right.

No one's throwing around weight.

And you like, watch all this fucking like b-roll behind the scenes footage they have.

And it's just everyone doing bits

in between takes, which then feeds into the energy.

DP Bill Pope, the great Bill Pope, one of the greatest cinematographers alive.

Who does the Matrix trilogy and Spider-Man 2 and Army of Darkness?

He says this is the most fun he ever had making a movie.

Like, and that they had no money and he had to do lots of sort of innovative stuff, which is often true with him.

That's him making bound around the same time.

And he says, if we'd had more money, we would have fucked this movie up.

We would have shot ourselves in the foot somehow.

He meets with her and says, how do you want this movie to look?

And she said, happy.

And he said, what does happy mean?

And she said, You know, like, happy.

And so he went through and got like a reference book full of photos of things that he thought captured happiness and brought this giant book to her

and laid it all out.

And she was like, Happy, not happy, happy.

And he was like, Truly, as much as that sounds vague, by the end of it, I had a completely solid idea.

I was able to look at the commonalities because she was throwing something out, which is like, I know how I want it to feel.

So now let's figure out, let's reverse-engineer what creates the kind of imagery that conveys that feeling.

Yeah, because I, you know, growing up in the Midwest, even watching Clueless now and seeing the way they dress and the hats and, you know, I was watching a lot of movies, TV.

I loved Save by the Belle.

Yep.

But it makes me, I'd never seen something that looked like that.

I've seen cool girls before, cool guys, but.

stylistically, it's different.

And so I am like, wait, is that what people look like in Beverly Hills?

Like, or did someone just nail that aspirational element

in a way?

It's the same as the language where it's like, she took like 10% inspiration from the real world.

She like heightened it by 90% comedically and put her own spin on it.

But then it impacted the culture in a way where then it did become the thing.

Yeah.

Like there's this odd sort of like she came up with this warped version of what was actually going on that then became the model that everyone copied.

But you're incredible.

You're right, Heidi, that this does feel like science fiction in a way.

Like, fast times are which one high, you watch it now, and you're like, oh, I love this aesthetic.

I love their clothes.

This feels like a documentary.

Yeah, 100%.

And this, you're just like, they are space aliens.

They are.

Yes, especially Cher and Dion.

Especially Dion, like the last scene at the wedding when Dion has the flowers in her hair.

You know, they just figure out a new, it's just so colorful.

And yeah.

Cher has like 55 outfits in this movie.

That rocks.

The costume budget was $200,000.

It should have gotten an Academy Award nomination.

actually it's one of the classic examples of when the oscars don't recognize contemporary costume design yes um every look in this movie is astonishing even like the boys even how the boys all have a very specific look like elton with his big baggy sweaters but also the elton at uh prom

he's like got he almost looks like a vampire he's got puppy sleeves and like i just clocked that recently where i was like wait and i can't remember my foot hurts can i go to the bathroom

it's elton and i can't remember i think you stay in the scene with Amber at that point.

Sarah looks, it's low-key.

You're seeing it like far away, but I'm like, wait, those looks too.

And it's different.

It's like he was wearing a hoodie and now he's interviewed with a vampire.

It's like, who did this?

This is genius.

There's one outfit that Amber has.

This one.

God,

it's these outfits that you glimpse for like two seconds.

Yes.

Yeah.

Where she's got like a sort of stewardess uniform, but there's like a gold dollar sign on it.

The costume designer said, and can you call out her name?

Mona May, I think is her name.

Yeah, let me look it up.

Said that the game for Amber was that all of her outfits

were gamed.

Right, right, right.

Amber's maybe trying a little too hard in a way.

Which I can totally tell.

Right.

And it's great.

And so Camp.

But recently watching it again, there's one outfit she has.

I think it's during like maybe the debate scene or it's a classroom scene.

She has a black sweater on, just a black tank.

On the sleeves, there's like furry cuffs on the sleeves.

And like she kind of walks past.

I only see a little of her bottoms, and I was like, Are those jeans?

And I was shocked to see Amber in jeans, but

it was like the most like just understated outfit.

But it was, I was almost like, Oh, I want to wear that outfit now.

It's like, but it's just like, I'm like, Well, why did you even decide she gets jeans?

It looks so cool.

Like, but everything in this movie feels like so thought through and deliberate in that way.

Yes, I'm like, there's a reason for the jeans, and the reason is the outfit looks great, but I'm just still shocked because it's amber.

Yeah, um,

is Cher's yellow sort of tartan like suit skirt?

Like, is that her the most iconic look in Clueless?

Like, it's a tough debate.

There's the red plaid.

That's really good.

Matching outfit.

Yeah, Ty has some amazing looks in this.

Yeah.

And I like that the looks Cher finds for Ty are not the looks Cher would wear.

Like, that's how much of an eye Cher has.

Yes.

She can dress anybody.

Like, she's like preppy, but still grunty.

Right.

She knows how to find Ty's niche.

Right.

I also go back to Dan Hidea has raised share well because she's not trying to impose her world on everyone else.

Yes.

She is trying the best that she can to help other people in the way they want to be helped.

She's spoiled, but I almost feel like it's in a good way.

Like he calls her out for the traffic tickets, but like any teenager, she's not going to be able to do that.

He starts at the first notice.

Yeah, she's still going to go drive.

But she is going home and getting called out for these things.

You know, like he's.

Yes.

She's spoiled in that she has whatever clothes she wants.

Yes.

But she doesn't seem like she's required certainly to like get good grades and kind of like do her work.

What the joke of any time there's like a cutscene and then she has a new shopping bag.

Yes.

It just they hit that over and over again.

And it's funny every single time.

My size.

And he has to spoil, like, if you really think about it, he lost his wife.

And he's like, one kid.

Yeah.

Like, you got to spoil your baby girl.

He's recently divorced.

With clothes.

Yes.

Yes.

i also like that

this i mean again this is what happens when you watch share a clueless a thousand times when josh's mom calls looking for him a character we never meet who is just whatever the lady that right

was married to for a few years she likes divorce wives not she's like okay sweetie i'll see you later like everybody likes share right like you know share would be a good stepdaughter to have it's clear like share was like not a pain about having a stepdaughter i think another rookie mistake would be to have josh and share hate each other until the end.

Sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And instead it's just kind of like Josh makes some jokes at her expense, but he clearly respects her.

And it's what makes the moment of him standing up and being like, she's not dumb

so affecting is he knows that and has always known that.

Yeah.

It's not a thing he's learned.

It's very easy to sort of like make the superficial jokes about her, but he loves when she's able to call out the polonious thing.

Polonious moment.

So good.

Right.

And she like is able to make fun of him for being boring.

Yes.

but she thinks he's smart she doesn't dislike him ever no no why does he keep coming over there yeah yeah he's hang out with me

that also is a mansion

it is a mansion and he can like sit by the pool but i love that he sits by the pool in like long sleeves yeah to read nietzsche yes now go in the pool go you said we never see his mom right i think we actually see her once okay where's

at the wedding or whatever i think that woman who's sitting next to him when share's walking down the aisle and smiles at him, there's a woman who gives him a look like something's changed.

And I'm like, and it doesn't make sense that Josh's mom would be at Mrs.

Geist's wedding.

Who knows?

It's a small.

Look, Beverly Hills is small, right?

Like, as much as, right, as much as all the people.

Yeah, it also doesn't necessarily make sense the wedding would happen in Cher's backyard.

You're like, Cher loves to throw a party in that community.

And Cher has kind of taken control of Miss Geist's, like, life.

And you have to imagine that, like, Cher would invite her.

True.

Right?

Yeah.

I want your mom to come.

Right.

In the name of

let's everyone be friendly.

Yes.

Yeah, well, the impression I get is that

her dad broke up with the mom because he's a workaholic, right?

They probably didn't even dislike each other.

They probably just never saw each other.

Yes.

100%.

Because they're both divorced from, they both have for not divorced, you know, they have kids already.

And anyway.

David, what?

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Clueless.

So Clueless

begins with a great montage set to Kids in America.

This movie has a banging soundtrack, obviously, like kind of like Fast Times, where she just picks stuff of the moment that's really, really good.

Although a thing I think that's smart is

Fast Times, she's obviously like closer to that age, right?

Yeah, and she's closing older.

picking music that she likes to make the kids about as hip as she is.

She knows she's getting older here, and so half the soundtrack is cool modern covers of songs that Amy Heckerling likes.

You know, like she's doing a lot of like covers of 70s and 80s songs and then stuff like Radiohead.

There's Radiohead, there's the Mighty Mighty Boss Tones.

Cameo.

I always loved about the Mighty, Mighty Boss Tones that they had a dancing man.

Yeah, yeah.

You got to have a dancing man.

I mean, it's kind of, it's definitely a thing in the ska scene.

Every time I watch it, I get confused and I think it's going to be the Never Knock on Wood song, which I know isn't Boss Tones, but sounds so much like it.

Do you know what song I'm talking about?

Yes.

I think that is the boss.

Is it

called The Impression That I Get?

Okay.

Yes.

But it's not the song in this movie.

No.

I guess it just makes it.

More singing.

Where'd you go?

Boss Tones having a real specific sound.

Did you ever hear a ska phase, Ben?

Unfortunately, yes.

How long?

Did you like the Boss Tones?

What are other ska bands?

I would say the big one for me, I mean, there's all the British stuff, which is great, but there was Catch 22, which is a Jersey band, and I went to see them a couple of times.

Did you have a real big fish band?

I did.

Less than Jake, the Toasters.

I mean, there was so much of like the mid-90s into the aughts of just, I think they called it third-wave ska.

Ska is one of those things that someone had to explain to me what it was.

Suicide machines.

Yeah.

Can I ask a ska if these are considered ska?

Because now, no doubt is kind of ska.

Or they began as Skaza.

So I went to a No Doubt concert, and there were three bands on the bill, and I was just lucky to see No Doubt, but then it was The Urge and 311.

Would you say those two are?

311 are kind of like a jam band, right?

Or are they not?

I don't know.

Aren't they like fish adjacent bands?

They don't have enough brass, I think, in their self-crace to be asked.

You gotta have according to Wikipedia, The Urge combines several genres: hardcore punk, ska, reggae, reggae, funk.

That sounds like they're in that world.

Yeah.

Okay.

3-11, I think, is maybe like reggae more.

Okay, I see how it all came together, but I've always wondered, was I at a pure ska show?

I don't think I was.

I did clock that in the first 90 seconds of this movie.

I paused it at 90 seconds to check the runtime.

There are three different needle drops in the first 90 seconds.

Kids in America, I don't know what else.

The Cash by David Bowie plays for like 20 seconds.

Wow.

And then on Turkey.

Right, because that's during her.

Right.

We see her life.

She has a perfect life.

It looks like a Noxima commercial or whatever her joke is.

But, you know, she's got her computer that sorts her clothes for her.

She's got her daddy who she's giving orange juice to.

The computer is so sick.

The computer's closet was a big, right, September of that year when all the girls come back from summer break and to watch Clueless.

It had become the greatest aspiration.

Computerized.

Such a thing exists.

That actually like science.

Richie Rich has McDonald's in his house as the number one cool thing that you could have.

And some girl got it.

I'm sure.

Some girl got it.

I love the joke that she and Dion are both named after great singers of the past who now do infomercials.

That was like, so some of those jokes my mom had to explain to me, right?

She's like laughing so hard.

And I'm like, what did, what do you, what, who's Dion?

What are you talking about?

And she would just, and I think this was just important building me up as the well-rounded person that I am today.

You know what I mean?

I love that you would even ask or had a parent that would explain.

I just laughed at everything and never asked.

Like in planes, trains, whereas

hands between two pillows.

I just didn't get that until maybe a year ago.

Like really didn't.

Really?

I was still laughing at what I thought I was laughing at.

You just weren't thinking about it.

I didn't think butt cheeks.

I just didn't, I just didn't go anywhere near it.

I have a very distinct memory of

going to see something about Mary with my dad

and the hair gel scene happens with the come on the ear, and my dad's laughing hysterically.

And I said, What is that?

And through tears, he went, I don't know,

just didn't want to have to explain it to me in the moment, and pretended that he, I went, Why are you laughing?

He went, I don't know.

I just, I don't know what it is.

Pay attention to the woman, but just watch the movie.

And I was sitting there doing the math, and I was like, Hmm, what are things I've heard people talk about that are inappropriate that I haven't seen yet?

And I had the very distinct thought, I guess that must be a condom.

That's my memory.

Is sitting there at like eight or whatever, something about Mary and being like, a condom must be goo.

Oh, God.

Oh, man.

So Cher goes to school with Dion, and she's rich, and Dion is rich, and Dion is dating Murray.

Faison's so good.

He's so good.

So every second of that guy is funny.

Yeah, yes.

There should be more there's he's always funny yeah he's always he's always funny

he kind of is like paul rudder and all these other guys where i'm like he also aged superbly oh he has aged incredibly

same like now basically

He's so good.

Well, here's another interesting thing.

Because I'm keeping it real.

My favorite is when he's like shaving his eyes because he's keeping it real.

His hair is barely changed.

I know.

So many times.

And she's so mad.

I have to clock in my head every time.

I'm like, is it that much of a change?

It's not.

Not at all.

So many of these 90s studio comedy guys end up in the robot chicken sphere because of Seth Green, obviously.

And he was similar, I think, like doing voices for whatever.

And then he got really interested in the art of stop motion.

He does his own stop motion now.

If you follow Phase On on Instagram, he just posts like 20-second social media

tests.

He fully went and worked at Stupid Buddy Studios where they do robot chicken.

Yes, I think he interned there.

This guy just seems lovely.

He's always funny.

It's like how Ken Griffey Jr.

now is a sports photographer.

He just photographed.

He was like an excuse.

It's not he's doing it for fun.

Like he was in the photo pool.

It's so cool.

The fact that this guy was just like, this is really cool.

Can I intern here?

Yeah.

Like, I want to learn this the right way.

He's done everything.

Like, right?

Right.

He doesn't.

There's nothing else he needs to do.

He's also in the amazing movie Uptown Girls starring Brittany Murphy.

He's in

Josie and the Pussycats.

Well, yeah.

Different.

Covered, obviously.

With Brecken Myers.

He also hosts a podcast with Zach Braff.

Interesting.

And are they watching old episodes of Scrubs on that one?

No, weird.

They're watching old episodes of Friends.

That would be funny.

Yeah.

You know what?

Yeah, exactly.

We're like, we like Frasier.

We're just going to recap Frasier.

Fuck you.

You don't get to learn anything about Scrubs.

No behind-the-scenes tales for you.

So, okay, so yeah, it's hard to do the plot of Clueless.

It's a pretty gentle movie.

Share, yeah, she's got Josh.

We've already sort of laid out all the

sort of the setup here.

I love in high school movies where they establish the rules of the world and the clicks and go through and show everyone the stoner kids.

I just, I always love how these movies have that in the beginning.

And just, it's, it's like, well, this is another important thing, I think, as a kid.

Another thing I love about high school movies is like the ensemble ecosystem

where you sort of have these feelings of like, this is another thing we lose when studios stop making theatrical comedies, right?

Which is like comedies made with a proper budget.

and a proper scale where you're able to build full sets or like get good locations and have like 25 primary actors on set every day.

Not like we have to shoot this person out in four days because they're only in three scenes.

Everyone's in the background of every sequence.

Like you're constantly feeling like there is a cohesive world to all these clicks bouncing off each other.

Even when the guy's not the focus of this shot,

you're seeing phase on in the background.

Yes.

He's there.

I mean, anytime someone tells me, like, oh, the whole movie takes place in a car, I'm like, bummer.

Right.

I mean, maybe it's worked in some way, but I'm like, yeah, let's go places and meet meet a bunch of people.

And like, yeah.

Ty doesn't enter for the first 15, 20 minutes.

The first 20 minutes is

this movie is her getting the bad report.

Getting the bad, the bad grade and debate

from Wallace Sean and embarking on the setup

between Twin Capital and Wallace Sean.

And then having the moment of self-realization of, I feel good that I made other people happy.

Right.

It's not just that I did it to get my grade up.

Right.

I'm thrilled by the

connection I forged.

Yeah.

They are so cute.

Old people can be so cute, as they say.

I love that they establish that they're students, but it's not a typical teacher-student relationship where it feels a little bit like they don't have to take school that seriously.

They're not like bad kids necessarily.

There's just this nuance there that I've really picked up.

It's the way they're

all sitting differently in their chairs.

This is the part of this movie that watching it last night finally hit hit for me of like, this is too close to home.

Oh, so

I did not go to Beverly Hills High, but I went to like the weirdo fucking New York liberal artsy rich kid version of that, where I, I, it was in that scene in particular where I was like, oh, right, this is the thing that I'm so grossed out by looking back at my own high school is like all the kids felt too empowered.

Yeah.

And when Ty has the line about like, all of you speak like grown-ups.

Yeah.

Right.

Like all my high school classes where everyone being like, okay, whatever you say, Mr.

Blank, you know, like a little like, we're all equals here.

And yet the teacher is beating you on that.

They have to kind of accept it.

Like that's just what the vibe is.

Salton being like, I left my cranberry CD.

Can I get a pass?

Like

the gym practice where Cher just gives the speech about like, this is not like enough athletic.

And she's like, okay, I mean, she just goes to the center.

Well, it's just a combination of like all these kids have clearly been very empowered and supported by their parents.

And also because they're in like an actual hub of culture, they're like, we're not cool for high school.

We're cool in the real world.

We are wearing actual top designer fashions.

We're going to the actual cool concerts.

They don't hear no a lot.

Right.

Right.

No.

They're not hearing.

You're right.

Yeah.

So then, yeah, like the first thing is Wallace Sean and Twin Kaplan, Wallace Sean, King of the 90s, you know, comedy, right?

I mean, come in.

But you see this arc of her like, I can finesse all my grades up and everyone else, she has a better angle, but this guy, she can't fucking talk around.

Yeah.

She has to change something in his life to change his point of view.

Yes.

Which is another great Hideya thing that he's, I mean, it's when he says, like, I couldn't be prouder than if you actually got good grades.

That he has raised her to understand how to like

argue her way into things.

Yes.

But right, Cher's first real moment of altruism is adopting Ty,

which Dion is against because Dion's like, this will hurt our social stock.

And Cher is is like willing to take the hip.

But she comes out of the Geist thing being like, I want to do more of this.

She's still doing it in a somewhat self-serving way of like, what makes her feel good is making other people cool.

It is the thing she feels the most confident in.

I know how to like train someone.

I can do a mini My Fair Lady on anybody, which makes me feel powerful.

And there's enough compassion that she's trying to do it their way.

She's not dressing misguided like herself.

She's not dressing Thai like herself, but it still is a reflection of look how hip I am.

Totally.

And Josh is sort of impressed with it too.

When he watches them doing buns of steel together, he recognizes that she is sort of that she means well.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Um,

and uh, God, he's so cute.

Everyone's so cute.

Everything's so colorful.

I just have the movie on right now.

Paul Rudd is my number one go-to.

That's what I wish I look like, guy.

Sure, yeah.

Any era of Paul Rudd?

Basically,

Wednesday hottest.

I kind of like every look.

I've invoked this before in the podcast, but I had a gay friend be like, you're not like queer at all.

And I was like, no.

And he was like, if you had to sleep with one guy, who would it be?

And I said, Paul Rudd, he was like, fuck, you are straight.

That's so straight.

That's the straightest answer I've ever heard.

But when I look at him, I'm like, God, that's the best a guy can look.

He's like, part of it is also that he's so funny.

And I'm like, I wish that is, I wish I could perform the exact same way as him i wish i moved like him i think

so even mean girls which is sort of the clueless of the next generation right which is a good movie right has a little more stakes to it i guess in this sort of popularity on popularity thing clueless doesn't have a there's no real villain no there's no real threat to their existence no anyway

like the worst thing that happens to her is ty gets a little more popular than her and she's kind of like i don't know what to do about that and yeah she gets like held at gunpoint but the stakes

are self-realized so sweet teen he's not gonna shoot her

the way he says thank you

i'm always so shocked when a movie can figure that out where it's just kind of a good hang and you could watch it for hours i mean it's great that clueless is 97 minutes but i feel like you could you're just enjoying it so much but Not a lot of like major stake stuff is happening, which same with fast times until the abortion, I feel like, you know, but clueless is that without the abortion.

Yes.

Fast times a little darker.

Yeah.

Right.

Clueless.

It would be weird if there was some big problem in this movie in a way.

Like you're like, these people don't have that kind of life.

Yeah.

Even I think the narration helps it a lot because you are so centered from the point of view of the character and you're in her head and you understand the way she thinks.

And so you're starting the movie kind of laughing at her a little bit more and then staying on the journey of her starting to like reassess things and get a better understanding of the universe.

That's another thing, by the way, that is just, I think, very underrated as like a tricky directing thing.

Is here is a movie that's like 50% montage and is going in and out of narration.

And there was a clip I saw in one of the behind-the-scenes things where Amy Heckerling is watching playback of a take and her script supervisor has a stopwatch.

And she's reading out loud the voiceover narration to make sure before they print the take, is that going to time out well?

Oh my God.

Because of course, in the moment, she's just filming Alicia Silverstone doing the thing.

Yeah.

And then later in a wonner, she's going to need to have Alicia Silverstone have the space to do that proper voiceover.

Yeah.

And it's so like Marvis, marvelously done too, because it's so narration heavy in the beginning.

Yes.

And then there's points where it really takes a break, you know, and then she pops back in.

It's just, it's so perfectly crafted in that way.

And it shouldn't, obviously, like doing voiceover narration can really blow up in your face, but it's perfect.

Yeah.

Because she's so self-assured.

And it's that kind of classic, like when you have a unreliable narrator, but she doesn't know like when she sounds like

whatever.

not clueless, I guess, right?

Like she doesn't get the moments where she sounds a little.

We talked about in our higher learning episode, weirdly, the concept of like page 20 knowledge of when you get to page 20 of the book and you're like, yeah, I think I get this.

Yeah.

And like this kind of empowered teenager is like, I think I figured everything out.

I'm 16 now.

I get it.

Yes.

And it's why it helps to be inside her head because like the narration dips away when she's starting to question her understanding of reality, which at the beginning of the movie is so solidified in her life.

She's half right.

She does have life figured out.

It's just that she's not.

mature and she sort of knows like she hasn't had sex and she hasn't really dated like she's known I guess not to dip into stuff that she doesn't know how to control Maybe this is why I feel like women my age who saw Clueless at the time they did are also super into

the whole real housewives franchise.

Cause like the thing you want, I feel like as a woman is to watch someone aspirational and not self-aware and completely themselves.

And that makes for really good television.

Like, and that is what, you know, there's moments, obviously, where Cher becomes self-aware, but in the moments where she's not, it's very funny and she looks great.

She looks great throughout.

Everyone looks great.

I was also thinking about when you read the people

that were also up for the role of Cher.

I was trying to be like, I was like, oh my gosh, yeah, Rhys Witherspoon.

I think I can see it or

Angelina Jolie.

But I

wonder if it was just having the context of seeing her a little bit in those Aerosmith videos.

Like, I don't think I had a context of Gwyneth Paltrow, Angelina Jolie, or Rhys Witherspoon before that.

I'm sure I saw a very small, like, supporting role of them, but there was something about being like, that is the ultimate cool girl who everybody wanted to look like.

And yeah, now she gets the next big thing.

It was right.

And yet also like kind of didn't have a voice at that point.

It was like such a

established piece of iconography.

Yeah.

She was in three videos.

Yeah.

There is a trilogy of Alicia Silverstone is the avatar for modern Aerosmith.

Yes.

As the ultimate cool girl.

Yes.

And now here's a movie that's like based around her talking.

Yeah.

And you're realizing like, oh, she knows how to deliver jokes.

Yeah.

I think that also brought people out to the theater.

Totally.

Yes.

Yeah.

More than the other actresses at the time would have.

She was also the first person to get a belly button piercing.

Like, I know that's not true, but that's sort of what it felt like.

It was like she took that mainstream by doing that in the Aerosmith video.

Crying is the one.

And Crazy is another one of them, right?

I'm trying to remember the three.

And wait, Crying, crazy.

Crying is the one where she falls off the bridge at the end because she's emo.

Amazing is the third one.

That one I don't know.

Yeah, that one's a little like, it's more in a void.

It's taken out of the real world.

And it's more in a void.

90s Harris Smith.

Where are you falling at?

You're more of a honking on Bobo guy, right?

What is that?

That was their late blues album.

Harmonica-based blues album called Honkin' on Bobo.

I thought it was like 2012.

I missed that one, Griff.

Yeah.

Their early stuff is incredible.

Toys in the Attic.

Yes.

Yeah.

Quintessential album of the 70s.

It is the 70s.

Yeah, for sure.

Get a Grip was my first CD.

So that's 90s Erasmith.

That's like prime 90s.

That was your first CD ever.

Yes.

Right.

Top of the Tower.

1993.

Top of the Tower.

The Tower of Aguinaldo.

Yeah.

That's the one with the cow udder.

Yes.

Right.

Oh, sure.

The Pierceds, one of the Pierceds.

And that has Crying and Crazy.

and living on the edge.

Does it have amazing as well?

Does it have all three?

Yes, it has amazing.

It has all three Silverstones.

I mean, listen, it had hits.

Yeah.

I mean, it's weird.

It's so many hits.

And even not the hits, but it's weird to think of myself as a nine-year-old being like, living on the edge.

In my room, like, what the fuck is going on?

But I think it was.

Alicia Silverstone that made it even more palatable for me.

It's like if she signs off on this, it's so smart in terms of reinvention.

I mean, God bless.

Like, old people should still make music, but, like, why did teens go for them?

They looked old.

In the 80s, they used Run DMC to make themselves relevant again.

In the 90s, they used Alicia Silverstone and then later Live Tyler to make themselves relevant to young girls again.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yes.

Permanent Vacation, which is an 80s Aerosmith album.

Starts off with a song called Heart's Done Time.

And I think it's so good, except for when you put it on, it's so overproduced and like loud.

You know what I mean?

Like that era of rock music where it was just like everyone was just pushing up on all the sliders and you're like, you don't need to do that.

But it was just, I guess, the peak of that era.

That's all.

Do you remember the song Janie's Got a Gun?

Of course.

So, and that's kind of got an epic video, and I was really into it.

Another one where I would have been even younger at that point.

I would have been six and a half singing like Janie's Got a Gun.

But at the time, my dad,

yes okay my dad had a girlfriend who knew that i watched the video a lot didn't think that was appropriate but then also

uh pulled me aside and was like i don't want you saying gun i don't want you singing that that's so if you want to sing that replace gun with flower

jamie's got a flower janie's got a flower was my my jam Your dad is a huge music fan, right?

And you have like a massive record collection.

Yeah.

Because I watched your AD and we just have to shout out.

Oh, yeah.

your home in kansas city is incredible thank you the design of it thank you it's like iconic video i i love watching those like i love that series and your

your house is one of the standouts for me oh you're gotta shout out anytime i love to host we almost talked about this before record but i i need to bring this up now yeah your dressing room at snl right feels very clueless styled yeah if not deliberately right and you describe it as like your dream it's like childhood space it is it's you know my childhood bedroom was covered floor to ceiling in cutouts from entertainment weekly and variety and hollywood reporter oscar ads like that and then posters yeah my dressing room now is that

but with christmas lights and chili pepper lights because my mom loved those and uh then things that i wasn't uh able to buy at the time or memorabilia and so it is just a tv vcr combo tv vcr combo

people can watch watch, to be clear.

Oh, yeah.

I did that on AD.

On AD as well.

Yeah.

So does everyone get their own dressing room?

I don't even know the rules of this.

Yeah.

So typically when you...

When you start, do you get like to you have to move up the ladder?

Do you have a roommate usually?

I got my own dressing room, maybe like three or four seasons in.

And then we moved around and we had to spread out more during COVID.

And then I.

I got my own again, like my fifth or sixth season.

And then you've seen the dressing room.

You know how elaborate it is.

It's elaborate.

Then, my like seventh season, they were like, Hey, sorry, like with the cast number, you're gonna have to share again because there's a lot of people in the cast, yeah, because you also laid down roots.

Like, I've been in a couple other SNL dressing rooms, and everyone else feels like they have it set up in a way where it's like, I could move out of here in an hour if you needed me to

switch.

If the cops are coming, I can backdrop a hat, I can rock and roll.

Your place, you've put down I have anxiety about when I will need to

do the move, um, but they were like, and you're gonna have have to move upstairs.

And I was like,

I really don't like this, but also just go to my dressing room.

And if you still feel the same way after being in there, and they're like, okay, you don't have to move.

It's national job.

So they tried to move you off the eighth floor.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yes.

Who is your original roommate?

My original roommate was Melissa Villa Senor, and then Ego was my second-year roommate.

And then since then, I've been sold.

The SNL thing is, it's like college.

Like when people are talking about it, it really does feel that way sometimes.

Yeah.

I,

through

your extended generosity, I went to the Michael Keaton episode this season.

Yep.

My idol.

You love Michael Keaton.

My guy, my number one guy.

And I knew going in that there was a sketch you had been pushing really hard to get on the air.

And at the end of dress rehearsal, it was like on the board as the last sketch of the night where it's like,

right.

Is it going to make it on or not?

Yeah.

And I sat there watching the show and was feeling such secondhand stress the entire fucking time where it it wasn't like I couldn't enjoy the show, but suddenly I was so hyper-fixated on the like high school aspect of it.

Yes.

And all I was doing was watching like Lauren standing on the floor and watching people do their sketch.

And then the second it ended, look to him for approval.

Like I was so hyper-fixed.

Like, how are the sets going to come together in time?

And how's everyone feeling right before and after the sketch starts?

It's insane.

A couple times this season, we've had, because you do, you see people watching on the the floor like you know eggo had a big uh update a couple weeks ago and people like zoomed out to show the crowd on the floor and it's like paul red adam scott lynn manuel there was a sketch i did this season i'm a huge sports fan where uh i did the sketch and then i ran off and three of the san francisco 49ers

were there and like they were like yeah good job

i didn't know that they were there i was just like george kittle and christian mccare what they were just there hanging out, just like there to have fun.

Yes, and pumping me up.

But also, I'm sure you have no time to process that because you already now need to be like running somewhere else to do something.

100%.

And you want to take a second to be like, and also a week ago,

I was going out for a sketch and, you know, only had like a 90-second change or something.

I probably changed in 50 seconds and I had 40 seconds to go.

And the cast of Southern Charm was in the hallway.

Just watching that happen.

Awesome.

Oh, my God.

Let's see the guy let me go.

And my dresser is like, let's go.

Right.

to me, I imagine what they do to Miss Geist, where like you're walking and there are people just like taking clothes off of you and putting clothes like that, like it's like I am there.

Right.

Yes.

And you're responsible to it.

And I'm so comfortable now doing it.

And like I'll know what I have under, because sometimes you underdress things.

So as I'm, if I know that I have proper amounts of clothing, I'll be changing myself as I'm running.

But then I remember there's an audience that thinks I'm about to like flash them.

I'm like, oh, you still need to go behind a curtain.

Oh, there has to, right.

Just the sense of propriety has to be there.

They'll freak out.

The tableside guac sketch on that episode, right?

I'm like watching the time narrow.

Yes.

And I'm looking and I'm like, it's not even 10 to one.

It's like five to one.

Yes.

Right.

How many pages is the sketch supposed to be?

And I'm looking on the floor and watching people furiously rewriting cue cards.

100%.

And it's like you've had like 12 different versions of this sketch over a week and you're going out there and there've been cuts made 30 seconds before.

I know.

How is your brain not short circuiting?

You just have to do it, but it is like a sketch like that that used to be 10 pages, a typical sketch, like then becomes four and a half.

It makes no sense.

But you're making these edits that you're like, I hope this still works.

100%.

But if you pull this line out, the sketch doesn't collapse.

Yes.

Yes.

It's insane.

I mean, I could just talk about this all day.

I'm trying to clueless, clueless.

Clueless.

Yeah.

So they get the teachers together.

That's wonderful.

They remake Ty.

She's immediately attracted to Travis, but they steer her towards Elton,

about as villainous as a character as there is in Clueless.

And he's not villainous, really.

He's just kind of like a mean rich kid, right?

Just into someone else, which is something we all experience.

And

he's got the most kind of like, no, I need to date like a successful rich girl brain.

And I mean, I know who my dad is.

Right.

And obviously, if you watch Clueless a Million Times, you realize that Elton is hugging and kissing Cher every single time he's near her.

Yeah.

Yes.

And she's just completely oblivious.

But that all peaks at the party.

The party is great.

Amy Heckling is so good at a party.

You know what I mean?

Five Fast Times has great partying.

This is a great party.

Don't you?

Doesn't this feel like a real party?

Oh, yeah.

Yes.

It is one of the special features I watched.

This suck and blow thing seems to have been the single most difficult thing in the filming of the entire movie

where they could not get it to work.

They were using a real credit card.

They were like, it's not sticking.

it's because now it looks like a social security card yes so they changed it to that because they were like we need cardboard it can't be plastic then it still wasn't working so they cut tiny holes in it where they were like maybe it will keep a suction that didn't work so then they ended up putting lip gloss and chapstick on everyone's mouth oh that's so funny but you watch it and it's like as if they were staging like an action set piece and they're like stressed out that the explosions aren't going off in real time you watch like bill pope tearing his hair up being like okay, how do we fix this?

I definitely watched this movie when I was 10 years old and I was like, am I going to have to do that at a party?

I have to do this like a laboratory.

It's such a stressful game.

Kissing chicken game.

Like, what is that?

I'm like, either we're making out or we're not.

I'd rather not make out than feel the stress.

Is that real?

Did Clueless make this up?

It's made up.

I think one of the things that brought forth into our culture, what I love about the party too, and

what HackRilling does span of time-wise, is that it's Christmas around the party.

And you just know.

Right.

You got the snowman.

Yeah.

And that happens in fast time.

And it's just like another comfort moment.

Wow.

There's an entire vulture article just about the party scene.

Yeah.

Murray's keeping it real, obviously.

Tara Reed apparently was on set just hanging out.

Cool.

Wow.

But I'm not from California.

I don't know the valley as well.

I only know it from movies, but this is what I thought of when I thought of the valley for so long.

This kind of house, this kind of like anonymous vibe.

Yes.

That's kind of mid-century ranch style.

Well, also the great LA joke of everywhere in Los Angeles is 20 minutes away.

Yeah.

Okay.

When he demands she leave the farm.

That is a thing that was burned in my memory.

And then I got to LA and they were like, nothing.

You can't get lunch in 20 minutes if it's down the road.

Everything takes an hour.

Like, and is it just that traffic's gotten worse or something?

Here's what I would say.

Or is he,

is he, does he live in a sort of reality bubble where he's like, everything takes 20 minutes, like, and he doesn't know what time is anymore.

My experience as someone who goes to LA and, and now just does rideshares everywhere, right?

As a podcaster who can't drive, is that like, if everything is working perfectly, it's all 20 minutes away.

Yeah.

If there is a minor hiccup on the road, everything becomes an hour.

Yeah.

Right.

So you're like, if you get lucky, it's somehow 20 minutes to get anywhere.

Because Kansas City, if anyone wants that ideal, Kansas City really is everything's 20 minutes away in a perfect way.

Yeah.

And there's just never knock on with that much traffic.

Yeah, so I do believe it exists.

And when I think about that, the layout of LA, and I lived there for a long time, it should be like that.

Right.

She gets robbed at gunpoint.

I guess this is sort of her lowest point.

Well, you're skipping over all

of her.

He's maneuvering to try to get Ty in the car with Elton.

Yes, yeah, yeah.

And then he is clearly maneuvering to get Share in the car with him.

Her friend Jamie Loftus, the great Jamie Loftus, has said that in her mind, this is like the best scene of how you deal responsibly with a situation where you're being sexually pressured.

Sure.

She's like, this is like the thing I would show to high school girls on how to handle it.

Yes.

Because he's not like villainously sexual.

He's being a jerk.

He's being

pushy.

He's being pushy.

And then he's kind of like, Share, get back in the car, get back in the car, which is like kind of like, it's, you know, it's pressurey, it's gross.

And she's just like really firm about like, I don't feel comfortable with this.

Right.

Right.

And of course, she does get robbed, but she does, you know, and that sucks.

But, and her dress gets ruined.

Uh-huh.

I guess.

But then Josh has to come pick her up.

The fact that Josh is so quick to pick her up, even when he's making out with a hip intellectual college student, does start to belie the fact that he maybe has feelings for her.

I do love the recurring motif of like you hear the brief snippets of the radio head song multiple times and Cher's always kind of dismissive of like, oh, you're crunchy, like heady college student music.

And it's only when she falls from at the end that like the song plays in full.

Yeah.

And she gets it now.

Yes.

This brings up an interesting part for me, which I just discussed for someone with someone.

Where do we think Josh goes to college?

That's a great question.

Great question.

I assumed UCLA, but I don't actually know.

No, he's an undergrad, right?

I know he wants to be a lawyer.

He's not in law school.

No.

The idea is that he's just like, he's like 19.

Yes, that's what I think.

Okay.

And I think that we only

we see him in his dorm room in that scene with the girl, you know, and otherwise he's at their house or his mom's or something like this.

But Easter egg, which is just interesting,

is that in a later scene, he's wearing a KU hat, which Paul Rudd went to KU.

Yeah.

And obviously it was just like, but I feel like, did he just get that buy with wardrobe?

I think so.

Yeah, because it doesn't make sense to wear a KU hat at all.

Yeah, just college kids don't wear other college hats.

No, absolutely not.

I mean, maybe he's a huge Jayhawks fan.

What were the Jayhawks doing in the 90s?

Yeah.

Oh, that's true.

Like, maybe Josh is.

Like, it's kind of like a Duke thing, you know, like not Duke, you know, where it's just like a big college team.

I'm really.

But who I watched it with was like, do we think he went to KU?

And I was like, and he's flying to Beverly Hills.

No, no, it's impossible.

And that's like, why would he go to like a big state school in the middle of the country?

That isn't tracking for me.

I think if you go that far away from home for school, you're only, you only go home at Christmas.

And you're lucky if it's Thanksgiving, but you see your family one time a year.

I think he goes to USC or UCLA or whatever.

Yeah, she has to because she calls him.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

She has to know he's close by.

Yes.

Yes.

And he's got a pretentious pseudo-girlfriend, not even girl.

I don't know.

Fling.

Fling something.

But we don't know much else about him.

Just that he doesn't want to hang out with his mom, I guess.

Why?

I guess she's just a bummer, right?

I don't know.

Or he doesn't know, he doesn't like the new husband.

That's what it is.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

He mentions the new husband.

Yep.

Um, I'm sorry, I'm just trying to look up Kansas City, uh, Kansas seasons in the 90s.

Just really stressed out.

We were, I mean, around that time, we were great.

Roy Williams was right.

That's the thing.

Yeah.

I mean, I buy it all.

I just so that's the internal logic.

Yes.

I had

for years when I was acting Paul Pierce, Rafe LaFrence.

This is a good tea jack for me.

Yep.

I had a my Derek Simon, my oldest childhood friend,

we made a t-shirt of like his like preschool class photo where he just had a really funny pose where he just kind of like looked like a cool guy.

Yeah.

It was like his mom had dressed him like a little gentleman.

And he was just kind of feeling himself that day.

He was like a three-year-old and he looked really confident.

And so we made shirts of it and would wear it.

And whenever I would do any sort of shoot and they were like, can you bring some t-shirts for home?

I would always force that shirt on camera because I just thought it was so funny.

And I was like, as long as nothing I'm in ever becomes so successful that the t-shirt is established, I can keep getting away with this.

I can keep doing like fucking college humor shorts, shirts where I wear this shirt.

And I have to imagine there was a similar thing of Paul Rudd being like, if I can just wear the hat of like my alma mater for five seconds, it's a win.

Yeah.

It's for me.

Yes.

It hopefully doesn't break the reality of the movie too much.

Yeah.

I was thinking about that recently.

I was like, why don't I just lie?

Not that I'm on red carpets that much, but like when you're asked what you're wearing, I'm like, why don't I just say like Kansas City places, even if they're restaurants?

Oh, sure.

You know, like Winsteads.

Yeah.

You know, like just to get it out there.

Just to boost it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Everyone go to Winsteads.

Yeah.

I'm looking it up.

Steak burgers.

Yep.

All right.

Ooh, this looks fun.

Yeah, it's really fun.

Never been to Kansas City.

Well, you're welcome.

Everyone's welcome.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Great city.

Very fun.

Okay.

So Elton makes his move.

She realizes she's been a little foolish about all of this.

Of course, Elton was never interested in Ty.

He's a bit of a self-entitled jackass.

So now Ty's bummed out.

Cher is bummed out.

You have the diner scene that also reveals that Cher is a virgin, which is this first sort of moment of like Cher is presenting herself as so much more worldly than she is.

Yes.

She is playing high status with Ty, who has done a lot more than she has yes ty is a more

girl in in some ways exactly um

and uh that's when christian enters the

the scene as a transfer right like we actually get the info right at the start the buzz on christian is that he's doing one semester in chicago one semester here she says that and he's a bit of a bald one uh yes what do we think of christian kind of the one cast member that did not have much of a career justin walker yeah and i think he's

so funny in this movie, but he's like got barely any credits otherwise.

I don't know what the deal is.

It's such a good bit.

Yes.

And of course Cher loves him.

Like

he's perfect for her because he's kind of non-threatening and he's so put together and kind of got this like classy like yes.

The stages of it are just so funny from like, here's like, you know, she's saving herself for Luke Perry, right?

Is the joke.

Yeah.

And then this guy comes in and he does have this sort of Luke Perry vibe.

But see, I have, he's the one that doesn't track for me in the movie because he doesn't have the Luke Perry vibe.

He has the Jason Priestley vibe and also looks like a brother of Jason Priestley.

And I just could never figure out.

I'm like, why is she into him necessarily?

Like, there was just because he dresses well.

I really think it's fat.

It's almost too much.

He's got the Chandler Bing shirts and like, it's.

Yeah, he's like out of swingers.

but i think she's she she's doesn't want to have sex with somebody so she kind of likes that he's kind of sexually not threatened

luke perry it would he's like short intimidating for her

jacket priestly's the the safer version of it he's someone she can ask him what do you think of amber and he can go hagsville like looking down his glasses like that's that's the kind of chat she likes to have that's why the transposing of jane austen onto high school makes so much sense because that character is completely different in the book because his whole thing in the book is that he has a secret fiancé that he can't reveal.

They just dump that because they didn't know how to transpose.

The point is, why isn't she interested?

Why isn't he interested in her?

Why doesn't he want to be with her?

I'm just saying, more globally, the idea of taking that era of novel and transposing it into high school culture is like, that is the one modern place where this sense of like who belongs together

feels like so overwhelming.

Where I think, as you said, like

Cher doesn't actually want to be in a relationship.

She's scared of sex.

She's scared of intimacy, right?

She's scared of like having to be vulnerable with anyone else, having to like share power with anyone else.

So her thing with Christian is just like, on paper, this seems like the right kind of guy for me to date.

And I think Heckerling does a good throttling of like, in every scene,

his

weird rat packy affectation is heightened.

Yeah.

It's not as apparent the first time you see him.

And then it's slowly creeping in.

Like, on paper, this seems like a Jason Priestley runoff.

And then you're like, he's got this weird 50s, like swing cat thing.

And then you realize he's gay.

Yeah.

You're sort of peeling him back.

Yeah.

You think the death of Sammy Davis Jr.

left an opening in your rat pack is another joke my mom had to explain to me when I was 10, but is so funny.

So funny.

I got a 45 and a shovel.

I doubt anyone would miss you.

It's the right level of like, he is scary, but you're also like, this is sweet.

you know even just

do you drink?

No, I'm good.

I wasn't asking

if you drink.

Yeah,

him telling her to put something over the dress and she puts like the thinnest see-through like like kind of camisole or whatever.

It's so funny, but that's part of why she's attracted to him.

It's like her

not understanding what she would want in a relationship.

Yeah.

At this stage is her just being like, a guy who compliments all my outfits.

Totally.

What do you mean?

Yeah.

A guy who every day goes like, what did you do to your hair?

That's amazing.

Her joke of he dresses better than me.

I don't know what it would bring to the relationship.

Yeah.

But he's very sweet at the, at the Ska show.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I, there's an interesting thing, too, of like in that diner scene right before Christian enters, where like Cher is

sharing the story of Alton in the car.

and like making it about herself, but also it's like she's delivering this bad news to Ty, which is like, he's not interested in you.

He's been interested in me the whole time.

He's making, you know, he made a pass that failed.

And now we're like shutting this guy out.

Yeah.

And Ty is getting so emotionally worked up about a guy they basically talked her into liking.

Yeah.

That Cher's like persuasiveness has kind of completely warped her brain.

I love that scene then later where Ty is like, they're burning the Elton box of stuff she like kept, like the towel from when he helped her at the party and stuff.

And

I, I so, I, the amount of shit I saved from

guys that like definitely didn't like me or paid me no mind or or play bills of like, you know, just like this was important.

It was so, I love that scene.

It's another dialogue exchange I love is he's too good for you.

If he's too good for me, then why am I not with him?

Yeah.

Which I would like hate when people said that to me.

Yeah.

You know, when I was like 15, I had some crush on somebody and they were like, she's, you're too good for her anyway.

Yeah.

And I'm like, that doesn't make me feel that doesn't help this situation.

I mean, the scene later where she goes to her dad to say, like, I like this boy and he doesn't like me back.

Right.

And he's just like, well, then he's just stupid.

Yeah.

Is so sweet.

Yeah.

And again, it's just getting the right, like the right mix of aggression and kind of like, you know, good-heartedness from him, right?

Where he's kind of bucking her up in the right way, being like, you have a work ethic.

You, you, you care about people.

Like, it's not, you're not just an airhead.

Like, yeah.

Yeah.

I don't know.

It's just nice.

Yes.

But even just like, right, her whole, I mean, because right before Christian's introduced, you have the all the young dudes thing of her explaining why she's so disappointed by the boys of her generation, right?

Like, why can't they put in an effort?

Yeah.

Christian is all effort.

Yes.

Yeah.

That is the main thing I think she's attracted to.

Totally.

Who would you most, Travis is the answer of who would you most want to like hang out with?

Well, I would, for me, it's Cher, but like Travis is probably the easiest Travis and Murray, yeah.

Murray's probably a pretty good hang, yeah, yeah.

Uh, Christian definitely

just, yeah, might make my teeth hurt a little bit at a certain point

for sure.

Christian saves Ty at the mall, yeah, which is actually

it's played up that like she's talking later, being over the top about it, right?

It's a near-death experience, but it's really scary.

It's so scary, like the stakes of it, and like that these guys are being so reckless.

Yeah.

It's fucked up.

Yes.

I'm not trying to apologize for them, but she also shouldn't have never sat on that.

No, also, her up there is so scary.

Yes.

In general.

Because that's slippery.

That like the handrailing.

It's like a metal.

It's scary from the second she's just talking to them.

I'm working.

In the book, she faints because she has like an encounter with local like travelers.

It's completely different.

I shouldn't even bring it up.

But that's

the early 19th century.

They also knew, like, such the way to, because that, yeah, if she's talking about a near-death experience and we're all agreeing that it is scary,

but also they didn't, they still kept it in kind of a light, bubbly, clueless world, you know, because you're kind of like,

what was that?

You know, we're adults now, so we're talking about it and saying it's scary, but I have to imagine in the movie theater, I wasn't like,

you know, like, I knew she was was going to be okay.

Like, yeah.

And the immediate joke is how quickly, like, through the game of telephone, the story gets heightened.

Yes, yes.

It's crazy proportions.

Yes.

But it does elevate Ty in a way that's sort of out of Cher's control.

Yeah.

And this does unbalance her.

And rather than turning her into a villain, I feel like causes her to look inward.

And what she finds inside of her is that she likes to help people.

And she's like, I guess I'll help with the Pismo Beach disaster, right?

I'll like help, you know, like, was that made up?

It's made up.

Okay.

Now, Pismo Beach is real.

Yes.

My wife had the same question.

She was like, what's the Pismo Beach disaster?

And I'm like, I don't know.

Let me go, but it is just made up.

But imagine all of your belongings, you know, the way Twink Kaplan sells it.

You know, your memory's gone in a second.

The separate boxes for appetizers and entrees.

Daddy, you didn't like that red caviar, right?

But that's an example of what I'm talking about, where it's just like, that is not a setup punchline joke.

Yeah.

That is a joke based on that character being so well established.

And she's earned it.

Right.

It's ridiculous, but with such good intentions, she just doesn't think about like, what do you mean?

That's not important to separate it into courses.

What is her line?

For people who don't have food.

What is her line about the skis?

I can get you the exact line probably, but daddy, some people lost all their belongings.

Don't you think that includes athletic equipment?

Yeah, right.

It's coming from such a good place.

Yes, isn't everyone like she's a little clueless, as the title says.

Go ahead.

And like, she has her moments like when she's watching the news and she's like, I thought they declared peace in the Middle East, which is, I'm like, that's the right kind of dumb girl joke, or it's like, why would she need to know about like the Balkan crisis?

She's only 16 years old, right?

Like that tracks to me.

Like, she's never so silly.

No, and the Polonius moment is like, I remember what Mel Gibson says, and he didn't say that, right?

Yeah.

And it's like, okay, she knows Hamlet because she has a crush on Mel Gibson, but also she was paying attention.

Yeah.

She listened and she remembers the lines.

Yes, exactly.

She's not just

balanced like that.

Getting lost in Mel Gibson's eyes or whatever.

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I like that she realizes that she likes Josh, the fountain lights up behind her, and doesn't go right after him.

Instead, does the Pismo beach that starts to just sort of do shit that is nice?

Yeah.

And it's not until Josh defends her with Mean Suspenders, Boy.

So mean.

Yeah.

That they find they have their moment.

And she gets Josh to sort of like, you know.

whatever admit that they like you and herself is above Josh because Josh is like an unfun dork in her mind, right?

Like he's like the buzzkill who wants to be a grown-up.

Yeah.

And she doesn't get it.

And the moment she has that realization, she's just like, I don't even know what type of woman he wants to be with.

Right.

But I imagine it isn't me.

And I like that she doesn't do this complete pretending to be a different person.

But you notice the next couple of scenes, she starts dressing down.

Oh, yeah.

She's still key.

She's still Cher.

Yeah.

But it's like all more toned down.

The cardigan, like, yeah, just a t-shirt and jeans.

Yeah.

Yes.

You're right.

You're right.

She's

a little less loud or whatever.

And everyone kind of starts seeing, you know, like Travis,

whatever, focuses up on his skateboarding.

Yeah.

Deion and Mercury.

He refers to weed rehab.

Yes.

Little, a little on the nose.

A little right refer madness.

He went to 12 steps from.

I know.

That was the thing.

I was like,

the rewatch, I'm like, oh, you really?

Oh, okay.

He's unrehabed.

He's

in the process.

Because he smoked a lot of weed.

I don't know.

He's pretty functional on this.

Maybe it was too much.

The 2025 version of that joke would be like he's giving up nine of his bongs and only keeping one because he doesn't want to be stoned all the time.

And this movie has to frame it as like he has signed up for like

weed anonymous.

Yeah.

And it's like fully weaned himself off the devil's lettuce.

Yeah.

He's only sober and one.

Like he would be like doing mushroom chocolate and not like

that.

Versus this movie has a little bit still of the 90s.

Like, is weed the innate sign of an unserious person?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Deion and Murray

get closer to have sex, seem to mature a little bit.

It's because of the freeway sequence, which is perfect.

This is a perfect representation of why I don't drive.

Like, I watch this sequence in the movie, and I'm like, this is what I imagine it would feel like all the time.

Right.

The first time you drive on a highway is scary.

I would feel like Sherry, and I'd be crashing into people's fucking rearview mirrors, and I end up on the freeway, and suddenly everything's moving really fast, and I can't get off.

Was that a major stunt?

Because this semi is terrifying.

It actually looks very close to them.

They do a great job, like exactly making it feel very high pressure.

What's the funny part of them having Bill Pope shoot this is you're like, this is the scene that's his bailiwick, basically.

I think there's also just a good joke to how um like tiny their world is that they really wouldn't be getting on the freeway much by themselves.

They don't need to, right?

Like

and uh

god, I guess, yeah, the first, I was maybe it's this movie's fault.

I was scared to like merge on, like, when I'm learning how to drive.

It's terrifying.

I was like, how does anyone do this?

You have to go really fast, really quickly, and then just kind of get in there.

It's scary to drive on those freeways in LA, too.

The first time.

It's so intense.

The first time I drove in LA, I had to like make a left off of like Sepulveda or some big ass road.

And I'm like, oh, okay, I'll just, where's my turning lane?

And then it's like, no, you just kind of have to turn left across like eight lanes of traffic.

Yeah.

That's just kind of what we do here

and i asked like an la person i was like is that did i up did i and they were like no that's just that's just driving in la yeah it is scary i drove there for 10 years and i won't now i'm too scared you you're now you're like i'm getting an uber i don't want yeah i'll drive in kansas city and i would even drive here it's i'm very scared of it i i did it like four years ago and when i got on the highway i felt the way they felt in clueless i was like this is coming at me so fast they're very large and they do go fast i love it i love it i i was so nervous about it and then i was just like, oh no, it's fine.

Like, merging is not scary to me.

I hope I get back to that.

It's more scary driving on the other side of the road.

Did you do that?

Well, I just went to St.

Croix recently.

Oh, that's right.

So they have American-style cars.

You might know the Benstelon Island time.

Yeah, I know.

The beads are starting to come out.

But you have to drive on the other side of the road.

So it's really weird

because the driver is then on the shoulder side.

Yes.

That's fucked up.

Yeah.

And I imagine just turning is just so then like all of a sudden, like, making a right turn is like, you're, it just, it's, I couldn't rewire my brain in the moment.

It was just so weird.

Yeah, I don't know.

It was, it was, I had a few moments where I just was really like pretty terrified driving around.

Don't drive around.

Yeah, join my side.

Never drive around.

No, I mean, I love, I actually love driving, which is weird of me considering what an anxious person I am about travel.

But that ends with Marie consoling.

Yeah, which then is like after that day, her virginity stopped being technical.

Yeah.

Or her like lace, I guess, hat that she wears in the highway scene, Dion.

Oh, yeah, yeah, it's so good.

I know, yeah, it's like a doily beret.

Yes, yeah,

but that's like a realization moment for her, too.

I mean, I think it's later where Sheriff says the thing about like recognizing the good and everyone she knows or the things, you know, she likes about them and says, like, how sweet they are when no one else is watching.

That there's this awareness that their relationship seems to be based in fighting, but it's kind of a like comedic, exhilarating fighting that they don't actually mean.

Yeah.

As much as that's sort of their weird love language.

And then she's like, if no one's watching, they're just really gentle with each other.

Yeah, which I love.

And

she witnesses that for the first time because like the fear of the life and death stakes of being on the freeway

has caused the defenses to go down, which I think in that moment makes her realize like this is an actual relationship.

I don't have this with anybody.

It's not a guy just saying you look fantastic.

And obviously the person she's most vulnerable and closest to is Josh, who she will lounge around in her PJs and like watch running stimpy with him and all that.

And like that's that's the she just needs to realize it.

And she does realize it.

And they make out and they go to the wedding of the teachers together.

And then the movie ends.

In the when there's the and you're so happy when there's nothing else.

I can't believe you just speedran through it that much.

Your favorite movie.

What am I missing?

The thing I was going to say is at the wedding, when there's the bouquet throw, Amy Heckerling is one of the bridesmaids.

Oh, sure.

Okay.

And she framed herself out because they were like, she's really shy.

She doesn't like being on camera.

But we thought it was funny.

She's in one of the dresses.

She's basically cut out of the frame.

But then in the bouquet throw, she thought they were all being too civil.

and was trying to encourage them to be rowdier and more competitive in it, and they couldn't do it.

So she just started throwing elbows and pushing them.

Oh, yeah, I see her.

And if you watch the scene, her head is down.

She's clearly trying to not be seen on camera, but all the chaos is being instigated by her in the middle of it.

There is someone that it looks like Alicia Silverstone falls directly on.

Like, it looks like it might be her.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Did you guys

ever watch the TV show, The Sitcom Clueless?

Yes.

Yes.

Existed for, I want to say, what, like four or five years?

Like, it was like three years.

Okay.

And like 60% of the cast carried over.

Yeah.

Yes.

Although not the two stars.

But we did have Stacey Dash, Donald Faison, and Eliza or Elisa.

I'm not sure.

Donovan.

But then also.

And Twink is in the first season.

Twink and Wallace Sean was in the first season.

And Wallace Sean was in the first season, but Michael Lerner plays the dad.

Kind of a different vibe.

Yeah, but a similarly established serious actor.

Yes.

A different Cohen Brothers all-star.

And then the guy, David Lasher, who plays Josh, gets written out after season one.

After season one, it went to UPN and it became a different show.

Right.

Yeah.

Josh was not much of a character and and Ty was not much of a character.

Right.

Yeah.

It didn't ever.

I watched it, but it didn't ever hip for me.

No, it's not very good.

Yeah.

I was watching last night some of the Fast Times sitcom, which is all up on YouTube because I'd been like, who needs to fucking watch this?

And then I found out she wrote and directed half of the episodes.

So I was a little curious about how that translation was.

And it's very strange because it's her trying to do fast times on network television in 1986.

I imagine it doesn't work.

And so it feels like this is like freaks and geeks 15 years ahead of its time, where it's like she couldn't make it as like edgy and complicated as she wanted to.

It was, it got canceled, was seen as a failure.

And I was like, oh, I wonder what failure was, what the scale was in 1986.

The last episode got 10 million viewers.

And they were like, well, this is unacceptable.

Gone.

Insane.

10 million.

10 million.

Oh, it's the 72nd

show on network television.

But, like, that's

Courtney Thorne Smith is the Jennifer Jason Lee part.

And Claudia Wells, who's the original Jennifer in the first Back to the Future, is

Phoebe Cates.

Like, it has good actors on it.

But it all feels very superficial.

Right.

And even if the Clueless Show wasn't as good, I think Clueless was a tone that was easier to translate to TV.

Totally.

Whereas Fast Times, you're like, you're taking the cursing and the drugs and the sex out.

It all feels a little strange.

Yeah.

Are there any other lines from Clueless?

I haven't shouted out.

Heidi, is there anything else we haven't touched on?

You know, it's a big movie.

Clueless.

Isn't My House Totally Classic?

The columns tape all the way back to 1972.

That's a good.

Her Jeep is awesome.

Her Jeep is so good.

That's so good.

Such a great car for someone who doesn't know how to drive to Owen as well.

And it's like,

it's not the, like, I don't know, you'd think convertible, but, but it's like, no, the cool girl would have the white cheek.

It's like a Barbie power wheel.

Yeah, yeah.

That's what I like about it.

It's a child's idea of a cool car.

Yeah.

Right.

Versus convertible would actually be cool.

Yeah.

Yes.

I was just having a snack at my girlfriend's wear in Kuwait?

The way that he yells at Ty, get out of my chair when she's sitting in his chair.

Anything else, guys?

No?

Yes?

No?

Before we do the box office game?

I'm scrolling through.

I totally paused.

I forget.

an iconic line.

Yeah.

I mean, I guess Kai and Josh kind of have this tension a little bit.

I think it's mostly in her head, though.

Right.

Like, I mean, or I mean, Ty obviously has a crush on Josh, but I feel like Josh is never actually aware that Ty is true.

He's just being a good person.

He's just nice.

Yeah.

Right.

He's just a good fella.

I do like that the sign that Travis has like gotten his act together and become a serious enough person that Ty can date him is that he's now professionally skateboarding.

Yeah.

Right?

It's like he's given up his bongs and now he's doing it within like a competitive structure.

Yeah.

It's also funny that they have like an espresso stand there and Cher has like a tiny little paper Starbucks cup, which you're like, oh, in 1995, that must have been a joke equivalent to them all having cell phones.

Like, look at how mature and hip these kids are.

Totally.

They drink Starbucks.

I like that, right?

He says he can't drink coffee, Christian, because of his ulcer.

She's like, what about those cappuccinos?

That was just foam.

Yeah.

Yeah, the line's really funny.

Yeah.

Obviously, Christian's obsession with Tony Curtis is very funny.

I never got to have a pager.

I had a pager.

I had a pager.

Really?

Yes.

My mom got me a pager after 9-11.

Or was it before?

I think it was after 9-11 because before I was going to, she wouldn't get me a cell phone.

Yeah.

So she got me a pager.

Wow.

And we used it like twice.

Right.

It would have.

You could call a number and read a message and it would, I would get sent like a text message.

They would like scroll on the pager.

Yeah.

And that was ostensibly the point, right?

Was like for an emergency, she could like give me a message.

I never used it.

It was so stupid, but it would tell me the news and soccer scores.

Wow.

So they would just like come up on the pager.

It's just one of those pieces of technology that you see in movies, it comes up, and it's something I'm, I'm like, I'm like, kind of almost like, I wish I was jealous.

Like, I wish I had had that moment in time to have that piece of technology.

Well, it's like the 30 Rock Beeper King King thing.

Technology is cyclical.

It's coming back around.

Maybe you can make the beeper happen again.

Oh, shit.

Yeah.

There could be improvements.

And there's maybe a way of like, there's the cell phones that only do certain things, right?

I don't remember the name.

Dumb phones.

Dumb phones.

There's like maybe some version where it's like you can still text message with people, but it's just more involved.

And I think you have to go in the opposite direction.

What?

People who are going towards the smartphone or the dumb phone, why not sell them a smart beeper instead?

Okay.

They don't want the super complicated smartphone in their life that's sucking up all their attention.

They want to downsize, but rather making a dumber phone, why not make a smarter beeper?

That just tells you, like, this is how many emails you've gotten in the last three hours and texts that makes you realize, like, oh, I got to get back to my phone.

Right.

I got to get back to it.

Or I don't.

Because there's some times where you're in a movie and you're like, I'm going to get out of this movie and I'm going to have 67 texts and 100 emails and you have zero and you're like, oh, wow worst day of my life yeah but that or it feels like the best day well yeah and you're like and i'm not as popular as i thought i truly there are few feelings i love more than waking up and going oh my god no new texts yeah i got nothing to catch up with texts do stress me out day starts fresh yep i'm in too many group chats okay let's start a couple more yeah let's do it um

Clueless came out July 21st, 1995, made $55 million, $56 million.

Openest.

So it had a, it had like tripled its budget.

it was it was a great stand solid hit but it also had major longevity was a vhs classic you know

cable classic yeah and i mean the sitcom is on the air a year later um there was the spin-off uh sitcom which heckerling worked on the first six episodes and then was like okay i don't need to do this um but this is the last successful movie that she makes yeah And like Loser is a big theatrical movie that kind of made some money, I guess.

And then that's kind of definitely seen as a disappointment.

But it's a disappointment.

And then her last two movies, she is very openly talked about having to claw to get a very meagre budget, not being able to make films on the scale that she wants to.

Both of those films we will talk about shortly, but I think the public sort of line on both of them is like, it's a little depressing to see her not be given the tools that she used to have.

There is the clueless musical,

which is about to open in the West End.

Yes.

It was playing on Broadway.

It was like from Katie Tunstall.

When Heckling is making this movie, she's like, this should be a musical.

People should start singing.

I think it was, it ran very briefly off Broadway at the beginning of 2020, I want to say with Dove Cameron playing Cher.

And there was a really good New York Times interview or piece profile on Amy Heckerling talking about like the lasting influence of Cher on her life and this whole arc of starting a script thinking she was mocking this character and then coming to really respect someone who could be that positive

and be that happy and everything.

And so yeah, she was hoping it was going to transfer to Broadway.

The pandemic happened.

The thing sat on ice for a couple of years.

And now it's finally about to open on the West End.

And she's

a number with shopping bags.

I'm sure there's

several.

Yeah.

And for me, I'm, and this is for me, I call a fatal flaw.

I do not care for musicals, and I'm so glad it was never a musical or it is one, but I'm like, it's already such a heightened world.

If they would have broke out in songs in the mall, I would have been like, no.

Are there any musicals you like?

I like

Pippin a lot.

Okay.

And I think I like Godspell.

I like the music in it.

And

I like Fandom of the Opera just because it was a big deal when I was a kid.

And I like that song.

I think we could win you over.

This is suggesting to me that there's music.

Yeah, there's space.

There's music.

Yeah.

Yeah.

If you like Godspell, you like Pippin.

I don't know.

Those are very musically musicals in a lot of ways.

All right, Griff, box office game.

This opens at number two

at the box office.

So what's number one?

It's a big hit of the summer.

I saw it with my whole family.

You might have been too young, but maybe you did too.

It's a family hit.

Or was it just a massive hit?

It's a true story film.

Apollo 13.

There you go.

I was like, I don't need to say space movie.

He'll get it.

Yeah.

Apollo 13, a great film.

Basically always hits.

Yeah.

I definitely watched that.

1913, Heidi.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

Yes, I do.

Because, right, this is June 1995 or July 1995.

I don't care about Tom Hanks yet.

And then Thanksgiving Toy Story is going to come out.

So by early 96, I'm like, well, Tom Hanks is obviously my favorite actor.

So 94 was Forrest Gump, right?

You can't care about him.

Right.

So then by 96, I'm going through the Tom Hanks VHS collection because I got to fill in knowing what Woody's face looks like.

Yeah.

Third is a rom-com that's a bit of a flop that is better known for the sort of, well, it's actually, it kind of made money, but it's better known for what's going on around the movie.

Was there a real life coupling?

A real-life scandal.

A real real-life scandal.

Was there an affair?

Oh,

was it

the actor?

It's nine months.

It's nine months.

Hugh Grant, nine months.

Yes.

Okay.

A movie where I feel like no one even remembers what the plot is, but everyone remembers that he got a blowjob on the strip.

And that was what the movie was about.

Have you seen nine months?

I've still never seen it.

Chris Columbus is nine months, written and directed by Chris Columbus.

Yes.

And Chris Columbus is, content.

We've said this many times on the show, Heidi, but Chris Columbus's contention is that it got like the highest test screening scores in the history of Fox.

And everyone was like lighting cigars and saying, like, this is going to be bigger than Mrs.

Doubtfire, which he was just coming off of, right?

And he was like, if you hadn't gotten that blowjob, it would have been my highest grossing film.

And I'm like, I think there is no universe.

You look at the cultural tale of that movie, which is non-existent.

People don't remember which movie he was promoting when he got the blowjob.

right?

Which movie he went on Leno to talk about the blowjob.

Yeah, right.

That's not the problem.

The premise is just

he gets someone pregnant, Julian Moore.

I remember my parents coming home from date night seeing nine months and being like, Robin Williams is funny.

And I was like, Oh, it's a Robin Williams movie.

And they're like, He's in like 10 minutes.

Okay.

He's uncredited.

Number four, it was a two and a half.

I'm sure Robert Butler gave it a two and a half.

It's a classic two and a half.

Yeah.

Number four at the box office, and I'm going to find out what

Robert Butler gave it.

Is a Ben favorite, an action film, a sequel.

We've covered it on

Sage 2, Dark Territory?

Under Siege 2, Dark Territory.

Great movie.

Which a listener very kindly sent us on Laserdisc.

We now have it on Laserdisc.

Yeah.

Cool.

So you can see that beautiful square.

Have you ever seen the movie?

You don't seem that excited.

No, I do.

What's the matter?

Like, cool.

That's cool.

Yes, I have seen that.

Looks like Robert Butler skipped reviewing nine months.

At least his review has not been uploaded to the internet.

What about Under Siege 2?

Oh, yeah.

It's basically just a big CD.

I bet Under Siege 2 got a one.

That's a one.

Yeah.

It sounds like he was a really class.

Like for the time, like he liked classy.

Yeah, he was just still an evert for sure.

Right, right.

Number five at the box office.

We were just talking about it on one of our mini text threads, Griffin.

We were just talking about it on one of our many

sexy horror films.

Is it species?

Species.

What if an alien, what if alien, but with boobs?

We have a really, really cool group text called News and Deals Deals that ostensibly is to talk about announcements and sales on physical media.

Okay.

But ends up being a wide-ranging conversation.

And we just honed in on species being a formative first time I saw boobs movie for many people in the thread.

Have you seen species?

I have totally.

I saw that with my brother Justin.

I'm sure that was one where Justin's like, oh,

you have to go.

But that movie is violent.

It's really good.

It is good.

It's a very fun movie.

We were

astonishing it hasn't been replaced.

Heidi,

incredible work saying Natasha Hintstridge's amazing last name, where you're always like, oh, it's Natasha Hintridge or Henstridge.

Hintstridge.

It's just this type of work.

I love looking at it.

Hintstridge.

Yes, love her.

Sim said, I can't believe Sidney Sweeney has not already

bought the rights to species.

Some young star needs to be like, I'm rebooting species.

It's coming back.

Species legacy.

Yeah, whatever.

Hintstridge makes one appearance at the end.

Yeah.

No, so that's the top five.

We've also got opening at number six, Free Willie to the Adventure Home.

Sort of unnecessary sequel.

He already necessary.

Hurry was freed.

Yeah.

He hasn't gotten home yet.

I guess.

I remember even as a kid being like, I think we've told the Free Willies.

Like what I was seeing in theater.

So I was like,

what I was digging into the other day, unsurprisingly, Free Willie the Animated Series, where they were like, we got to raise the stakes on this.

So in Free Willie, the animated series, there is like a league of Captain Planet-esque villains.

Wow.

There's like cyborg men who are like, I hate the ocean.

Free Willie must be captured.

And this boy is still just like, Willie, jump.

But you got these guys with like drill submarines and lasers trying to attack Willie.

And you're like, the movie's just about a kid trying to get a

big ocean.

He switches a good squat.

Yeah.

I hate Willie.

Number seven is Pocahontas.

Uh-huh.

Which I've re-watched with my daughter.

It still just does not hit for me.

Look, I understand it is a deeply problematic movie.

It's not just as problematic.

It's very slow and stately.

The songs are nice.

Yeah, that's kind of Pocahontas.

And it looks nice.

Just around the riverband.

Yeah, no, it's a good-looking Willie.

Should I marry Cocoum?

Yeah, but this is the thing.

It doesn't have a lot of, you know, like

juice.

Because I'm juice.

What about Coco Om?

Who's yeah, should she?

Is she supposed to marry?

Yeah, should she?

It's like, no one's really that fun.

I don't know.

Yeah.

Oh, so wait, the raccoon.

Flitt and Miko aren't getting a rise out of you.

My daughter's obsessed with Tarzan.

Well, that one I don't get.

It's so weird.

Yeah.

Anyway, those very serious late 90s Disney.

What's your Disney Renaissance feeling overall, Heidi?

Oh, definitely, yeah, that era.

Yeah.

I mean, Robin Hood's my favorite, but definitely.

Yeah.

Robin Hood and Jungle Book are my two.

Sure, sure.

Robin Hood and Beauty and the Beast are my two.

But the Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast were just magical.

Yes.

And then I just, I tapered off around the Tarzan Pocahontas.

You're getting too old for it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So my daughter's obsessed with Little Mermaid right now.

She

will not allow the scene where Ursula gets big to be shown to her, though.

Interesting.

Like, she saw that once and was like, like, truly classic.

But she takes it like villains, right?

She loves Crowe.

She's obsessed with Ursula.

as

long as she maintains a normal size.

Her getting big is scary.

It is scary because she gets way too big.

And then they run her through with a ship.

But she's not scared by Vanessa.

Which is Vanessa?

Vanessa is when Ursula becomes.

No, she loves that, but

what's she doing?

And I think she's learning

trickery.

It's like, you know, being introduced to her.

Like, she's tricking her.

Him.

Yeah.

Eric, whatever.

Indian in the Cupboard, number eight.

A banger.

Pretty good movie.

A movie that had that movie

we will cover on this podcast someday.

Oh, will we?

It's directed by

Frank Oz.

Oh, sure.

Yeah.

First Night, the serious King Arthur movie with Richard Gere and Terry Connery by David Zuckerberg by David Zero.

One of the Zuckers.

And number 10, the great Batman Forever RIP, Tafal Kilmer.

That was 10?

Well, it's been out for two months at this point.

It's made a

Memorial Day movie.

Yeah.

And No Mad Love.

No Mad Love Love.

Where in

this Mad Love?

Mad Love is not even on the charts.

So it probably left left theaters within weeks.

Can I tell you a formative thing that summer that was a Batman Forever thing?

Okay, so I would always see movies with Justin.

My mom was like, you guys go together.

Heidi's your younger sister.

I'm nine years older than my sister.

So I had a very similar dynamic where I was the Justin.

Yes.

And you're the responsible one and all this stuff.

So I had seen Batman Forever the weekend that it opened with my best friend Ashley and her dad.

Justin wanted to see it either that next week or that Sunday at Ward Parkway.

And I was just like, I've already seen it.

I want, and he's like, well, I guess you could see

something else.

We could split off.

And so I went and saw Water World.

He saw Batman Forever.

Wow.

We both agreed we weren't telling mom, you know?

And then I let it slip that I went and saw, or we both were just talking about two different movies.

And she figured out, she's like, wait a second, you were in Batman Forever while your sister was in Water World.

What the hell?

And she got so mad at me, and she said, Do you know that you could have been sitting in that movie and someone could have come over to you with a needle and injected you with something, and then we would have never seen you again?

What?

Yes, like it was obviously a news story of the time.

Yes, I do sure, a panic.

Yeah, so Romley, my little sister, would watch SNL with us, with my brother and I, even when she was young and liked SNL a lot.

And I guess she was probably

11, maybe when the Magruber movie came out.

And I remember I was like supposed to pick her up from school and take her to see something.

And there was probably some kid movie or teen movie that was like what we assumed we were going to see.

Yeah.

And I sort of said to her, I was like, this is my moment to be the cool brother.

I think she's old enough where I was like, you know, Romley, if you wanted to, we could see McGrouber.

Love it.

But you can't tell.

our parents.

Yeah.

I'll do this if you're cool about it.

Because I was like, it's cool that she likes comedy.

I was like, she may be on the path to becoming a comedy nerd.

She was not.

But she was interested in seeing it.

And I took her to see Magruber and like had this kind of electrifying, like watching her at 11 be like, oh my God, I can't believe I get to see these jokes.

Yes.

Sort of the inverse of my experience with my dad taking me to see something about Mary, which my mom never let him live down.

Right.

And then like four days later, this is when I've like, I'm out of the house.

I'm, you know, not living with my parents.

My mom calls me in a fury and says, you exposed my daughter to Magruber.

And I said, she told you and she went, she wouldn't stop singing the theme song during dinner.

McGruber.

And I was like, Romalee.

So good.

How did you give this up?

And also, it's on the show.

You should have just lied and said, yeah, I know the song from the sketch.

Yeah.

She was just too excited.

She just blew it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Too excited.

I get it.

Little sister vibes.

Yeah, that was always going to happen.

Yeah.

McGruber, R.I.P.

Valcomer.

Yeah.

Everything comes back to

the pass.

Heidi, thank you for coming on the show.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for having me.

I'm glad.

Is there anything else you want to plug aside from Saturday night?

Saturday night live.

Winsteads in Kansas City.

Yeah.

Let's get our asses there.

Let's just do Winsteads.

Steak burgers.

It's been an establishment since I was a kid.

Looks like the onion rings look pretty good to me.

They're great.

What's your go-to order?

Cherry's lime.

Oh, yeah.

Just the regular limeade, which it has sherbet in it.

And then like a single steak burger with the 50-50.

And the 50-50 is either fries and onion rings, onion rings and tots, onion rings

or tots and fries.

I am all about that.

Like an onion ring something

is great to me.

Cause like if I just get onion rings, I kind of feel insane if I just

come in.

It's always more than I want if the plate is just that.

Tell me about their fry structure.

They just have a thin

fry.

I like that.

Yeah.

No, no, no, no.

You know what?

Winstead's has a steak fry.

Winstead's has a steak fry that you always end up

adding kosher salt to.

They give you the pack and you salt it up.

I think it's time for the steak fry to make a comeback.

I think, you know what I mean?

People aren't giving a steak fry.

It's my least favorite.

Yeah, it's my least favorite.

I would say bring back a curly fry.

Yeah, you know, rare and amazing.

Well, here's my thing with curly fries.

If they are good, they're so good.

If they're like frozen curly fries, which they often are, you know what I mean?

They're like, they're fine.

If you can make a proper good curly fry, they're the best.

I feel like I've seen the bag of frozen curlies that I'm like.

No friend of mine's family ever bought those and neither did we.

So I don't, I haven't seen that.

You don't have curly fries.

No, but like certain restaurants you'll go to and you're like season frozen.

But I'm going to say this, so I'm going to stand by the statement.

Here we go.

I prefer a frozen curly fry to the world's best steak fry.

But here, my thing with the steak fries, I'm like, I want to see a good one.

There's got to be a good one out there.

Show me the good one.

For some reason, this continues

in our culture.

Someone must have done this well at some point.

The basket weave one is good.

Oh, like the waffle fry?

Yeah, waffles

the more technical.

This is why I put steak fry dead lowest.

Yeah, yeah.

I like a good crunch.

Even I put a potato wedge above it.

Same.

You know what?

Because steak fry is no fish nor foul.

Yeah, out.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Also referred to as a JoJo fry.

Okay.

Jojo fry.

I don't know.

At my college, it was.

Okay.

Yes, they are potato wedges sometimes known as JoJo fries.

Interesting in the Midwest.

The Times recently did an article where the title is Reviled or Underappreciated Edible Spoons.

America's least popular fry, but some chefs are still devoted to them.

So there's people out there doing steak fries and trying to do them well.

And also more importantly, New York Times is still committed to targeting journalists.

Thank God.

They're doing the work.

It looks like the Park Avenue kitchen does like a fancy steak fry with stuff on it.

That's cool.

I want to see a regular steak fry like blow my socks off.

I don't know if it can happen.

What are your favorite fries in New York?

That's a really good question.

Oh, okay.

Okay, there's these are just places that SNL does the after party and at the end of an SNL, it's good to have fries.

So La Avenue, that's in Sax Fifth Avenue.

They have a restaurant.

Their fries are really good.

Mermaid Oyster Bar, their fries are seasoned with Old Bay.

Oh, that's great.

I love that.

Yeah.

I love Old Bay.

Yeah.

That's that's good.

Yeah.

La Avenue, I feel like that's the, again, having just read the Lorne book, that's like where Lorne

is always at a corner table or whatever, right?

Like that's where he has the big dinner.

Uh-huh.

Yes.

Yeah.

Are people reading the Lorne book at SNL or do they not want to be spot?

Like, are they putting like a fake book cover on it?

I think a fake book cover.

Yes.

If I worked on the show, I'd be like, I have to read this book, but also I don't want to be the person who's reading the book while I work here.

I think it's one of those things that like you would read years later when you're chewing it.

Like, I haven't seen the Saturday night movie because I just be like being at work.

Also, you're a big partner in a weird way.

I'm joking.

Okay.

It would be funny if everyone in the Jason Raymond movie is like, you know, one day a girl called Heidi will walk through these doors.

We have a recurring bit about how that movie does so much compression of timeline of things that happened in the first five years of the show.

Right.

That were also like at one point they cut to delivery room or Keenan's being born

that they want to call dibs on every single thing that happened over 50 years.

I love that scene.

So I'm just imagining like a scene in the movie where your parents go to SNL and they're like, we're thinking someday we'd name our daughter Heidi

many, many years from now.

The deleted scene.

It's a special feature.

Yes.

Look at my kids.

Look at them.

Just got a picture of the twins.

They have twins.

What are their names?

We're going to bleep these out.

And

right.

But on the podcast, we call them Bebop and Rocksteady.

Cool.

That's the code name.

Thank you for coming.

Yeah, we're done.

We're just chatting now.

Ben laughs.

He's the only one who can end the episode on a technical level.

I don't know.

Anything else?

Yeah, Heidi, are you in a maze?

Anything else?

There's a big charity event I do in Kansas City.

Oh, yes.

Yeah.

Every end of May, early June called the Big Slick.

Oh, okay.

There's also Thundergong.

Thundergong.

That's a good thing.

Big Slick.

We raise money for pediatric cancer at Children's Mercy Hospital.

And it's a really fun event.

If you're thinking about coming to Kansas City, you know, we play like a celebrity baseball game at Kaufman Stadium.

It follows, a Royals game follows after, which is really fun.

And then we show, we do a big show at the T-Mobile Center.

Like last year, you know, we have like stand-ups like Jeff Ross, Fortune Feemster.

He did a roast.

She did stand-up.

mail non-Johnny did stand-up.

We did a hot ones challenge because the host of hot ones is there.

Patrick Mahomes was throwing balls, assigning footballs, throwing them into the audience to Travis Kelsey.

It's like so much fun to all raise money.

And you're bringing like all the

big shots of Kansas City together.

Yeah,

Rob Riggle started it, and then he got Paul Rudd and Jason Sudeikis in, then Eric Stone Street, David Kechner, and then they brought me in as the host.

It's incredible that there's like such a good batch of generational

Kansas City comedy all-stars.

Ham was just on the show, but he's St.

Louis, right?

He's from but he's on the big slick.

Yeah, is he a Royals fan?

No, is he a Chiefs fan?

No, no, he's a Chiefs fan, but I bet he's a Cardinals, he's a Cardinals and Blues

fan, but he's a Chiefs fan because there's no Kansas City,

no St.

Louis.

I mean, sorry, no St.

Louis.

Yeah, I want to go to Kaufman Stadium.

It's beautiful.

Yeah.

Live show?

David, you want to do a live show?

Do you think we could fill Kaufman's Stadium?

Apparently, it seats 37,000.

Do you think we could do that?

There are still tickets available to our town halls.

Yes, and that theater seats a little less than 37,000.

I know my friend Austin in Kansas City is a blank check listener.

Shout out to Austin.

Austin, thank you for listening.

I hope you enjoyed this episode and we're done.

Ben's got to go to the dentist.

Please remember to review and subscribe.

Tune in next week for Loser.

And as always,

Ben has to go to the dentist because he broke his crown.

Not my crown.

I cracked my molar.

Let's get him out of pain.

Oh, yes.

Fuck, you think so?

Maybe.

You'll need something.

Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims.

Our executive producer is me, Ben Hosley.

Our creative producer is Marie Bardy Salinas, and our associate producer is A.J.

McKeon.

This show is mixed and edited by A.J.

McKeon and Alan Smithy.

Research by J.J.

Birch.

Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American Novel with additional music by Alex Mitchell.

Artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds.

Our production assistant is Minnick.

Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help.

Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit.

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This podcast is created and produced by BlankCheck Productions.