Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade with Chris Gethard

Blank Jack with Griffin and David

Blank Jack with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect

All you need to know is that the name of the show is blank Jack

you have podcasted poorly that that's good right I I do want to just I want to highlight two interesting taglines for this movie.

One I really like, one I think is really stupid.

Is Adventure still has a name or was that for last year?

I think that's the second

one.

So the first one is terrible, in my opinion.

So bad.

So funny that they did this.

And this is the teaser poster that's just Indy holding his whip.

The man with the hat is back.

Okay.

And this time he's bringing his dad.

I remember that.

It just sounds like a Macaulay Culkin movie or something.

It just sounds so stupid.

I remember remember the man with the hat is back, and I had flipped in my mind that that was for Temple and that for the first time.

The man with the hat is still Chris.

The man with the hat is back.

The man with the hat is back.

And this time he's bringing his dad.

I'm like, what do I care if he, like, that's exciting?

His dad?

Like, it's not inherently good news.

First half, man with the hat is back.

That's fine.

It's a little iconic hat.

And maybe

he's more than a hat.

He's bringing his dad.

He is a man with a hat.

He was recently on connections, NYT Connections,

things indiana jones like is associated with and it was like hat whip bomber jacket there's a fourth thing anyway the other tagline i i just want to say i want to say about that poster yeah beautiful drew strusen painting really nice painting although i also think i prefer the the main poster painting oh well that one's incredible because it's so like nice looking but you said like oh it's that tagline in indie with the whip you should make it clear that painting is like that poster is like a drew strusen painting of indiana jones at like a kmart photo studio.

It is like a high school, like

head and shoulders turning to the camera three-quarter profile.

I think they settled on a really nice tagline for the main poster, which is have the adventure of your life keeping up with the Joneses.

I think that's a clever way to do the family thing.

Yeah.

That's all.

Here's what I'd say.

This movie kind of needs no tagline.

You just like put the poster out and you're like, here it is, the third Indiana Jones movie and Sean Connery is his dad.

But that's why I think they're saying the dad thing because they're like, what with the dad?

you know, like they want you to know about the dad.

Sure.

It's not just like a third Indiana Jones movie, which would probably be enough.

Just like, Indiana Jones, he's here.

It is a little bit sad that they didn't come up with Keeping Up with the Joneses first.

I think Keeping Up with the Jones is just really clever.

That was the second swing, though.

You know, that shouldn't have been.

No.

Not only is it the second swing, but it's also like the second beat of the second swing.

And here's a...

a cool Japanese poster, which has River Phoenix on it.

That's pretty cool.

I think River River Phoenix is so fucking good in this movie.

And I love that sequence so fucking much.

Well, we'll get rid of right into it because it's the first sequence in the movie.

I'm just going to get ahead of this, right?

This is my favorite Indiana Jones movies.

I've said it in other episodes.

I know it is objectively not the best.

I know that

Raiders

does basically everything this movie does better.

They are so similar.

And like, similarly, I'm like, I can't argue that it's better than the opening fertility idol sequence of Raiders, but the River Phoenix sequence is my favorite Indiana Jones sequence, which is absurd to say when it doesn't have Harrison Ford in it.

That is absurd.

That's that's borderline.

Not saying it's the best.

Not saying it's the best.

I have so much fun watching it.

It's really great.

It's really great.

It is really great.

Last Crusade is my favorite, but it also,

I have really been thinking hard.

And I know, I don't know if I'm supposed to jump in yet.

I never know.

I've never known.

Absolutely.

This was,

I did briefly have to think.

I thought, I was like, was this the first movie my dad ever took me to see in the theater?

In 1989, how old would you have been?

I was nine, but I realized it wasn't.

I realized that it feels a little old for you.

Some of the first movies, I actually, it made me research the first movies I ever saw in the theater.

And the first movie I believe I saw in the theater is actually really,

really, to me, quite funny.

Which was that I started breaking down the earliest movies I remember.

It was like this, an American Tale,

Home Alone, and Batman.

Right, but these are all 89, 90, 91, like that era.

Then there was an early outlier, which is that my dad clearly had no one to go with and did bring me to see Star Trek 4.

Hello theater.

That's a great movie.

But for a six-year-old,

for a six-year-old

first experience in the movie is the fourth sequel.

Well, sure, story-wise, but you know what?

It's fun because it's like they're in

fish out of water and there's the whale.

It is whale.

It's a pretty gentle movie.

It is maybe the Star Trek movie that is most accessible to a six-year-old with zero context, which is like space people in modern day San Francisco being confused by like cabs and shit and then giant flying whales.

It does have like almost police academy style gabs.

Yeah, and it's a real animals.

A really well-executed version of that, too.

It's like

fun.

I will say, though, all of these things, I love your defense of it.

I have a feeling that if I sat my father down and said, why is the first movie I ever saw in the theater Star Trek IV?

He'd be like, Your mom didn't want to go on it.

It was that or me sitting by myself in a way that would have made me sad.

Right, right, right.

Do you remember liking it?

I remember liking the experience of seeing a movie.

But Indiana Jones, the part of why I felt like Last Crusade might have been the first movie I ever saw was, I was like, I do have those sense memories, and I'm so glad to get to talk about them here where I'm like, This is perhaps the movie more than Raiders for me because of the theater experience.

Like, this is the movie that makes me feel how you want movies to make you feel.

This is my thing with it.

I'm like, I know Raiders is better.

And I watch Raiders more because I'm like, I want to study this.

It is such a miracle of like construction and craft.

And yet I just have so much fun watching this.

And I'm like, this is a perfect example of like what I want out of just like

fun, well-made popcorn.

well performed.

I like this movie a lot with Chris, though.

You had some thought I feel like you were completing.

i can't maybe not just the idea of like this will always be my favorite indiana jones because i saw it in the theater i also have such a i i'm 95 certain it was attached to this movie that because this was 1989 i started reading comic books around 1987 88 and i have a very distinct memory that Someone might correct me.

Lord knows your fans will be the first ones to tell me if I'm right or wrong.

No idea what you're talking about.

Or Sweetie Pie fans.

I love your fans.

I love them.

And it's also nice.

Famously.

I also want to say it's nice too because a lot of other times times I've been on, there's been natural segues into Star Wars stuff.

And

I know your fans sometimes think I talk about Star Wars too much, but I don't really see too many connections between this movie and

the George Lucas-produced film, the Sean Janet.

No, like, so this one I feel like

this is just, it's a streamlined episode.

As the offspring told us.

So they have the same

separate Colonel Veer's stunning performance as Walter Donovan.

I love that guy.

But I do remember seeing a trailer for the Matt Salinger Captain America that I think was before this movie.

movie.

That line here.

I've heard a lot of people talk about that.

That's a

90 film.

So that would have been appropriate.

Captain America Shield came up and a few nerds in the theater flipped out.

But this was an era in my life where I had been reading comics for two years in isolation.

And I was like, Oh, so you were like, oh, there are others like me.

I'm in a room with people who like being.

Yeah.

Although I feel like that was like a nadir for comic book Captain America.

Like late 80s, he was very uncool.

X-Men had become so cool.

Yeah.

Like the Avengers were kind of not that cool.

Is it really Nomad Error or is Nomad about to?

It's probably around there.

Nomad might be earlier.

We are in the very fascinating 10-year plus run by Mark Grunwald, which I've made, which has the best Captain America's ever been and also some of the most...

inexplicably atrociously bad writing you've ever seen in a comic book.

I should do a deeper...

I've never really read Cap in like a sort of thoughtful way.

Well, because you're not a patriot.

Right.

I just am not a patriot.

I know it's because I'm a U.S.

agent guy, actually.

I just love that guy.

When you dive into the Mark Grunwald run of Captain America, you know who to text if you're interested in that.

I know that's interesting.

Conversation about it.

He's, yeah, it's funny.

Like he, he's not someone like his Rogues Gallery.

I'm not that familiar.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I loved, obviously, when Captain America got cool again, when Ed Brubaker did him, right?

When suddenly it was like, whoa, Captain America's like dark spy stuff.

And this is so cool.

I loved all that.

I feel like I've heard a lot of folks of your generation talk about that that experience of the Captain America trailer being pretty widely attached to Last Crusade in the same summer that Burton's Batman has just come out and feeling like, oh shit, it's all happening.

Like if you've just seen Batman work and you see the Captain America teaser that's the shield, you have to think like, holy shit, they're all going to happen now.

Every year, they're going to make all of them.

They're all going to work with the public.

And then it's like Captain America comes out, is like muddled with, is a nothing movie, disappears.

Batman basically becomes the only superhero that works until the 2000s.

We're also people, I think some

people, younger people sometimes forget we are also now, not again, I don't want to dwell on it, but we're also now far enough away from Return of the Jedi that liking Star Wars is getting decidedly lame.

Star Wars has become like cheesy kid shit.

Before the re-releases of the original trilogy.

Actually, before the toys got cool.

It's in its weird kind of swampy love.

I love what you're fucking setting setting up.

Right?

I was going to correct you on the toys thing and the fact that you fucking got to it.

The toys got cool.

The re-releases happened.

Star Wars got cool again.

But we are in a stretch where

liking, like wearing an X, like I liked the X-Men by this point.

I would never wear an X-Men t-shirt to school.

When I say the X-Men were cool, I mean they were cool in the sense of like they had become Marvel's biggest star, but obviously comic books.

They were the coolest thing within comic books.

And where, again, to tie into the culture, too, let's not also forget, Griffin, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is in the process of about to explode.

Like nerd shit is about to hit.

And

it's got its own little quadrant, right?

Like it's not like now where it's the main thing in culture.

But yes, this movie.

This movie made you feel good about being an unabashed fan.

Yeah.

For the first time in my, that, that cycle has always spun, but in my life cycle, being in that theater, hearing those people flip out.

Being there with my dad, I'm like, man,

it's just the movie that probably more than any any other imprinted in me the feeling of like, I want to sit here.

I want to eat popcorn.

I want it to be dark.

I want everybody to be quiet.

I also feel generations of people molded by Spielberg giving you that beautiful feeling.

89 is a year that for better or worse starts to feel like

the year that sets Hollywood on the course to where it is today.

Like you look at the 89 blockbusters and you're like, this is a good slate, but also

the studios kind of become obsessed with chasing this lineup.

They start chasing Dick Tracy almost immediately.

Right.

But it's like Disney Renaissance.

Because I believe Last Crusade, Batman, and Ghostbusters 2 all break opening weekend records.

It's like the record gets broken like three times in one summer.

You've brought this up many, many times.

Next thing you know, everyone's having panic attacks in San Diego.

Wait, I don't get it.

Comic-Con.

Comic-Con Crusade.

Oh, sure.

No, this is everything.

This might be the snowball down the hill that leads to Comic-Con culture.

I think it all kind of

sub one with someone.

I now have it.

I can now restore it.

You always say this, and then I just, I'm always like, I can't tell how to look this up.

But here are the opening weekend records.

It was held by Beverly Hills Cop 2 with $26 million opening weekend in 1987.

Last Crusade beats that with a 29.

Ghostbusters 2 then beats that with like...

29.4, you know, like slightly higher.

And then Batman does.

And then Batman crushes that at the end of the year in 1989 with $40 million, which is then beaten by Batman Returns.

Yeah.

So it holds five three years.

Yep.

And then Jurassic Park, Batman Forever beats Jurassic Park.

People forget 52 mil.

And then Lost World beats Batman Forever.

What do you think beat Lost World?

People kind of forget about this because Spider-Man becomes the famous, the first movie to open over $100 million.

Is it Sorcerer's Stone?

Harry Potter.

Yeah, nice.

Right.

Because I remember people being like, is Harry Potter going to be the first movie with $100 million weekend?

A little below.

Made like 94, 90.

And people were like, you know what?

I guess it's just mathematically impossible.

There was no way to have that many showtime.

All that many tickets.

Right.

And then the following year, not even like six months later, Spider-Man does 114.

And people were like, holy shit, impossible.

And then you get to like a decade plus later, Avengers Endgame does like 114 opening day.

Avengers.

Oh, Endgame did.

Yeah, yeah, sure.

It did 357.

I wonder if that'll ever be beaten.

I guess it will one day.

But this movie did break the record, like you say, Griffin.

And it does, it is a year of sequels and comic books and also like the Little Mermaid.

So like that, you know, that element rising again, the cartoon, you know, movies.

Yeah, it's a year of like, right.

It's this is what we want the industry to be.

But you also have Look Who's Talking, Dead Poets Society.

You have

non-franchisees things.

Like you have a big comedy.

You have a big adult

family drama franchise yeah yeah dead poet society to two two dead two poets yeah dead dead poet society tokyo drift you know yeah we can keep anyway look this is blank check with griffin and david i'm griffin david it's a podcast about filmographies directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks make whatever crazy passion products they want and sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby This is a mini-series on the films of Steven Spielberg, first half of his career.

And we're talking today about Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, his third of four Indiana Jones movies.

That he directed?

Yep.

That he directed.

Yep.

His third of his four.

For many years, the fairly satisfying conclusion to the Indiana Jones series, and now the middle entry in the Indiana Jones series.

Yeah.

Technically.

It is weird to be like, that is, this is now the exact midpoint.

And it's another thing where like you talk about that Star Wars dead zone.

And I know that was a little before David and I's time, but I've dug into it a lot because I do think it's a fascinating thing that's basically been culturally forgotten, which is that like Star Wars just kind of goes away for 10 years.

Yeah.

And is like a

vine.

Right.

It's like hardcore norms are keeping it alive at a very low burn in a way that like

everyone loves those Timothy Zahn books now.

The Grand Admiral Thron shit, and it's coming back in the, in the Filoniverse.

But it was a little.

You were reading those Timothy Zahn books?

Yes.

You were a door.

You were a

quate it to the period between original Star Trek and canceled in the movies, right?

Where you're like, there's a small, fervent group of people who are digging into the stream.

But that period is shorter.

And that period is like, it's like those people were cultivating a cult show.

They were like, we need to keep this cult show that didn't get that many viewers alive.

Star Wars, it's like, these were the biggest movies in the world.

They're just done.

But the fans are like, well, we want more.

So we'll just sort of write.

We'll read some books.

And we'll, but like, it was like,

you know, Star Wars fandom was wide and thin.

And Star Trek fandom was like more concentrated and small.

But the other part of it is that like, you know, Lucas very early on was like, I'm going to do nine.

Right.

And then after Return of the Jedi, people were like, that's not fucking happening.

And he so quickly does the two Ewok movies and is like, and I'm doing two cartoon shows.

And droids and Ewoks and the Ewok movies all kind of don't really hit in the way I think he hoped.

And we try, as someone who was alive then, like the Ewok movies?

You tried.

We watched them.

We were ready.

Yeah.

We were confused.

Right.

We knew what they were.

Only fans were confused.

Yeah.

Give you a sense.

Like, and this will age me.

Everyone will know that I am truly an exennial, that this, this micro generation, the

Oregon Trail generation, as some of you are called, the exennials.

We had Apple IIEs with Oregon Trail in our classrooms.

Here's what it meant to be a Star Wars fan is that I was on a pre-World Wide Web internet where you would dial in from your computer to individual BBSs.

And when I tell you there was one that I found in Whippany, New Jersey that had an archive of Star Wars fan art that you could spend hours downloading for 2,400 hours.

It would take a 2,400k modem, but like, oh, someone drew a picture of an ATAT Walker and you can dial this BBS and download it because someone's making fan art.

Like the level of loserdom that I just described that I actively participated in and was that kid of like, I like Star Wars.

So I have a floppy disk of fan art that I'm downloading from a BBS in Whippany, New Jersey.

Like that's where we were at.

This idea that

every store was going to be stocked with lightsabers, that there would be an entire theme park to go get lost in the immersive experience of this.

No, you're using your computer to sit for hours communicating with another computer in Whippany, New Jersey.

That's what you have to do.

You have talked to me about, and not said with sadness, just kind of an objective reality that when you were starting out at the UCB theater, you were like, the cheat code is, if you make a Star Wars reference, everyone in the theater will laugh.

Especially when you were on the road doing college shows.

Because you're just like, the people who come to improv shows are the exact people who have this knowledge base in their head, and they don't hear other people say it out loud.

And you even look at early Conan O'Brien and there's a similar thing of them making jokes about deep cut Star Wars characters, which is like, they know their audience.

They're going to pop if they hear Lobot or Bosque.

Right.

And you're like, now if you say that people are like, yeah, Bosk is at Walmart.

Everybody, my kid knows who Boss is.

Everyone knows who Boss is.

My five-year-old son is a boss.

I don't know.

Also, I just want to say, I did not come here to talk about Star Wars.

No, no, no, no.

We're not talking about it.

I had a real firm intent to not

dwell too much on Star Wars.

Just understand that this is a cultural discussion about the impact of 1989, that I did not lead everybody.

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.

When you're seeing this in theaters chris let's say our guest today oh sorry go ahead i didn't realize we had to see these blankies no they know i am

i'm the bad boy of blankies we forgot about chris the bad boy of blank check

this is deaf blank check jam

hamburger

i ain't scared of you motherfuckers

i just did a show with hamburger really a month ago i did a show with the real alonzo hamburger jones

in new jersey i got a text from a club booker that was like hey if you're free tonight, we're just doing a show, a bunch of people dropping in.

Hamburger's going to be here.

I was like in the car before I could even hit reply.

This is incredible.

How did he do it?

Because they crushed.

Of course.

Yeah, fucking cowboy hat.

And he said the word hamburger 45 times

in like 10 minutes.

Yeah, right.

It's like Hansen.

I'm like, they better play mbop.

And they play umbop.

I'm like, I got what I wanted.

The whole thing is he says hamburger instead of swear word.

Instead of swear words, but it's almost become like an OCD compulsion.

Like he'll hit a punchline and then in between the setup as next Joe, he'll be like, and here's the punchline in the rhythm, hamburger.

And here's the setup for the next one.

It started out like curse words and now it's become like the smurf saying smurf.

Yeah, it's wild, though.

But he also was, I'm not making fun of him.

Hamburger was fucking great.

He's been doing it forever.

But it was also fun because it was a bunch of very young New Jersey comics in the green room.

and Hamburger, who predates me by many, many years.

But then I walked in and was like, everyone's just sitting quietly, not talking to Hamburger.

I'm going to sit down and ask Hamburger some questions and then the whole room gathered up and showed their respect and listened to the stories of alonzo hamburger jones that fucking rolls hamburger uh chris cether yes you did our live show last year for the ninth anniversary i think that was the last my presence has been felt on blank check this is true and you made a bit about you guys are afraid to have me back on which you always think you'll make the joke publicly and then you'll text me and you'll be like i get it if you guys don't want the heat i don't take it personally

yes yeah now

it is kind of crazy that it's been five spread out over 10 years, but I also think you're a high-impact guest.

We want the right pairing.

You text me four times a year and you were haranguing us about this right before the record.

When are you guys doing Kurosawa?

When are you doing Akiru?

That's the episode I want.

You walked in here today and you went, you guys call yourself a movie podcast.

Isn't this supposed to be a movie podcast?

No, where's Kurosawa?

I'll pull back the curtain.

Edit it out if you have to.

I said, when are you guys doing Kurosawa?

David Sims's response was, that's just so many movies.

And I went,

is this not a movie podcast?

That's a funny rejoinder.

Is that not the

one?

It would take half a year.

It would take half a year.

For us to do Kurosawa in the various.

That's the whole fucking format.

The only workaround is we split it in half, which is what we did with Spielberg.

We did half of Spielberg seven years ago.

And now we're only finally getting half of the Sielberg.

You forget that you're not scrambling to watch a six-hour long reinterpretation of Hamlet.

It's King Lear.

Is it King Lear?

Is his colour colorful

rips.

That movie's good.

But do the people not want to hear you guys talk about fucking Yojimbo?

Am I crazy here that they don't want to enjoy it?

I think it's an aspiration.

I think there's a certain level of people personal.

But I just do want to say, I oftentimes have texted you guys like, hey, if you can't have me back, I get it.

And I just need to be clear.

I'm not ever setting out to make your fans furious.

Of course not.

I don't want to.

You're the nice guy of podcasts.

I'm not trying to get people mad, but if they get mad to a degree where I find it funny and unreasonable, I will at that point be the heel.

You did a bit at our live show where you played into that and played the heel.

And my manager, who I don't think has ever listened to an episode of the podcast, texted me and said that angry nerd was hilarious.

Where did you find him?

Look at that.

Where did you find him, Griffin?

But this is when I was someone shepherding you in your early career.

This is how bad things have gotten for Chris Gether.

Where did you, Griffin, discover Gethard?

This is what's wild to me is the amount of time she's had to hear me talk about you.

They don't even know these people.

It's if I remain on the the show.

When I was like, that's Chris Gethard.

And she was like, oh, people don't.

It's not that she doesn't know who Chris Gethard is, but it was like disconnected for her.

I get it.

I think also you came in, started speaking from the crowd, started riling people up.

We maybe never properly introduced you because everyone was like, we know who the fuck this is.

Also, the way you asked me to do that show was, we're doing this thing at Town Hall.

Can you come do the Gethard thing?

Right.

Come like, essentially.

Play full heel.

Yeah, full heel.

Like, fucking World Order.

Can I just say one quick thing?

And I'm not apologizing.

We talked a lot about Spider-Man 2 on the Spider-Man 2 episode.

I think we talked about it.

I don't know.

Did my bit miss?

Maybe.

There are people where I've read their opinions that they were looking forward to that episode and felt let down by it.

And I feel very sad about that because it's one of my favorite movies.

That episode's good.

I mean,

if there is a problem,

when I read some people on the blank check subreddit going, this guy, his show got canceled and he's been cut from every movie.

And I'm happy.

I go, maybe there's something to be said for the culture of Reddit and fandom and where they crossed over that some of you could do some soul searching.

I'm not setting out to piss.

I agree with you.

And this is why I'm bringing all of this up.

This is why I'm bringing all this up.

At the end of your bit, you walk off stage and we had a moment of genuine earnest reflection.

in which we just called out, this whole podcast doesn't happen without you.

We used to watch your show.

We were obsessed with you, you know, exactly.

But I mean, yeah, it's like basically David and I bond over the ritual of the Getherson.

So he wrote a very nice review, and I believe you interviewed him about that review for the Getherson.

No, Lyssa, who saw both of us being really active in the community, was like, you guys should be friends, but also I'm eat fucking Hosley because Creek in the Cave hires him to take over as producer of all of their podcasts, but specifically talking TCGS, which was a witch.

Which Riley and I were already doing.

He comes in mid-May.

There was a stretch where that podcast was, I think, getting as many

listens as the show was getting views.

Correct.

It maybe even started to, at times, threaten it.

We were like, we can't have the podcast analyzing the show.

There was a more popular TV show.

That's a bad sign of this show's future.

Which platform the episodes used to be on?

Do you remember there was the website where they would go, like the archived episodes before you were uploading them to YouTube?

I'm trying to remember the name of that place.

Blink TV.

I think so.

Blip TV.

Blip TV.

Blip TV.

blip.tv what i remember is reporting to you imagine if the gethard show existed when twitch and discord insane i mean it's we're out here

i remember telling you how the first episode of the podcast talking about the show had done and you said that's more listens than blip tv reports we get per episode and it forced you to look under the hit and be like is blip tv's algorithm wrong like do they not know how to actually measure it?

It turns out I was wrong.

If we see everything that's happened with Blip TV since then, my paranoia was incorrect.

I should have trusted it.

But this is.

Was.

You always love a Wikipedia entry and it starts with blogs.

10 years of blank check.

A decade of dreams.

It feels very important to have you back on.

You're getting them mad at me right now because they're going, just talk about Last Crusade, guys.

Why do all the Gethered episodes have these farms?

Let's talk about Indiana.

I'm trying to get it.

And David is famously not on the street.

It's me being a really good boy.

He's being a great boy.

Being a really good boy.

I'm enjoying the movie in that we're starting off the episode by talking about the early days.

Correct.

But now we're going to swing into talking about the subject.

Geth, tell me about your relationship with Indiana Jones up until the point.

Had you seen the others?

The first one I see is Last Trusade in theater.

Yeah.

The second one I see is that my parents used to take me.

There was a campground called Otter Lake.

It's still there.

It's in the Poconos, North Jersey.

That's a good, cheap vacation.

Go camping at a a campground in the Poconos.

This campground is one of these places that has a camp store.

That's the first place I ever bought comic books.

They also did movie nights, and I see Raiders.

Uh, I see Raiders as part, it's screened at a campground in like a little outdoor pavilion, which is a really beautiful way to see Raiders.

In your memory, is it a print?

Are they like showing a print or are they like projecting a VHS?

It's a VHS.

I would be shocked if they had.

No, they weren't.

They didn't have a projector out there.

We went to very different summer camps this is true

this is true i'm not gonna deny it out it's the old days touching on things that make listeners angry i'm not gonna deny it

all right my parents were like where's the cheapest place we can go these people probably like literally prop up a big screen tv no it was not a screen they would project dvds at my summer camp but i do feel like there was a weird culture it's the only reason i asked the follow-up question there was a weird culture of like 16 millimeter prints existing of blockbuster movies that were basically just for like boy scouts and shit like i wouldn't be

in my memory it wasn't like i want to tell you that i can still hear like the crickets and smell campfires and hear the like of the film starting i wouldn't probably vhs probably a vhs but i would argue Crusade in the theater and then double back to Raiders of the Lost Ark with your parents at a summer camp surrounded by other kids.

This is the stuff of childhood.

That's an 80s childhood.

And then do you immediately jump to Temple to fill that in?

Temple, I don't see for a few years.

From what I remember,

one of my best friends in high school and later one of my college roommates, he has a VHS of Temple that I watch.

I don't watch until high school.

I don't think I saw Temple until just, it was randomly on TV or whatever.

But I do feel like a lot of the most iconic things I knew about Indiana Jones before seeing any of them were images from Temple, which is weird.

I think we talk about it in that episode, but there was such a media frenzy around look how fucking jacked Harrison Ford got for Temple that I think the imagery of him with like the ripped off sleeve and the machete and his chest showing was for a long time kind of just one of the most repeated Indiana Jones images.

And him, him tied up to a stake.

I remember feeling like that was really scary in my head.

And again, I haven't re-watched all of them for

recent purposes.

And I know I will also say too, I'm not obsessive with Indiana Jones.

Him, the big ball chasing him, that's temple as well.

That's right.

That's Raiders.

That's the iconic individual.

They were jumbled up in my mind.

But yes, it's Last Crusade in the theater.

It's Raiders at a summer camp.

You're making me realize all three indies have a big, he's tied to something scene.

Like the first one has him and Marion while the ark is being open.

The second one has him tied up while they're like hypnotizing him.

This one is tied to his own dad.

Yes.

And then, yeah.

And they talking about fucking

fucking

tied to your dad.

The bondage.

They're talking about fucking A.

I mean, we have to talk about this later.

It's a huge part of this movie.

A movie that is largely airy fun with this sort of

silly, weird thing at the center of it of like, they become Eskimo brothers.

They both had sex with the same woman who again.

Like back to back.

Also, though, like the psychology of Steven Spielberg

making the Nazi that they both had sex with

undeniably super hot in her Nazi outfit is, I am now old enough to realize the psychological layers of that are very short.

I want to see if there's anything

because I do wonder.

She's when she's dressed as a Nazi.

Yowski.

Empire of the Sun.

I mean, I agree.

Empire of the Sun's the episode right before this, correct?

Yeah.

Just because we've been recording a little out of order.

Correct.

Okay.

So Bilga, our friend Bill Gabiri on that episode put forward the notion that the big shift in Spielberg's career is like at about the midway point, he shifts in the perspective of making movies from the vantage point of a son to making movies from the vantage point of a father.

And that this is kind of the fulcrum movie because it's dealing with both sides of that.

Sure, sure.

Which is very interesting to me.

And I think through that prism, this movie's relationship to sexuality is very interesting and how weird like Spielberg's relationship to depicting any form of sex in movies or even really talking about it is, but also so much of his core trauma being related to the like cuckolding of his dad and being too aware of the sexual lives of his parents and all this sort of shit.

It is just funny that this movie is like an Eskimo Brothers family adventure comedy that just kind of like won't move on from that, but that also it's like you've set up these Indiana Jones movies that have this sort of like James Bond style.

We're going to have a new love interest every movie.

And then this one basically does the fake out of just like, she's not a love interest.

She's a villain.

And for the second half of the movie, it's going to be him and his dad kind of having a weird conversation about the fact that they've both fucked her in the past.

I also have been re-watching, I just finished, really deeply meaningful to me, re-watched the original Star Wars trilogy with my five-year-old, which anybody who's heard me on the show can imagine that that was like very, very real for me.

But I am.

Was she like D plus?

No, he medium.

He loved him.

Of course, there was a lot of people.

He loved him.

And you know what, Alcoholics?

Here's the thing that's really, really cool.

It's not cool talking about Star Wars in that.

I mean, he did love it.

This movie has so little to do with Star Wars.

We can't focus on it too much.

Loved Obi-Wan, like, loved Obi-Wan, loved every time Obi-Wan came back.

It is sad to see, though, that kids now growing up grow up with enough spoilers that, like, another kid had told him

about Luke and Vader.

Yeah, he knew so much about Yoda that you realize the magic of this little impish creature turning out to be a wise old they all like he had i wish i could have seen that cold i mean yeah i saw that cold i saw it cold and it blew my mind.

I think I already knew, like, Yoda's wise.

Right, we're not talking about that.

The only reason I wanted to bring it up, because I don't want to dive down the Star Wars rabbit hole, is that both Hans Solo and Indiana Jones are also by modern standards, and who cares?

But I'm like, oh, Harrison Ford played a real good sex pest.

I don't think Indiana Jones.

Okay, so here's, I don't know, man.

Here's my Venice.

Like,

here's a flower.

He's a little.

He's a peppy-le-peeu level in the Venice scene.

I agree with you.

He gets off the boat with it.

He basically starts rubbing his dick over his pants.

I gotta fuck this rod.

Like instantaneously.

Kev, can we just get that sound clean one more time?

I agree with you, and it speaks to how good Spielberg's story math brain is at this point, where he's like, if we later find out she's a Nazi, the audience won't hold it against him.

He's so smoking hot.

But I also...

It's like to the point where he's still trying to save her as she tries to steal the holy grail one last time.

He's like, no, no, no, come on.

You got to get back on here.

Like, you're like, oh man, she's.

That scene is interesting.

We'll talk about that.

There's dynamics to that.

I find Willie Scott so annoying.

She's one of my least favorite characters in the history of movies.

And part of what I find annoying about her is, as we've covered in that episode, it feels like a character who's trying to stop Indiana Jones from being an Indiana Jones movie.

And the tension between the two of them is just him being like, I'm Indiana Jones.

Sooner or later, she's going to to fuck me.

I'm just kind of sitting here being like, okay, lady, until she finally breaks down, right?

What I think they correctly identified in sort of recalibrating for this movie is like, man, you know what's Harrison Ford magic and the thing they stumbled upon that you wouldn't think would be his superpower is like the back and forth between him and Leia

and this guy who's so fucking cool and confident.

being a little flummoxed by like,

fuck, I wish I didn't care about you.

yeah and you can actually needle me there's character growth with i'll say marion has that because of the history and henry jones senior has that where it's fun to watch indiana jones be like

i'm pretending i don't care it's i i also want to say too i'm not bringing it up to be like sex piss let's let's cancel harrison ford's early characters just like oh society has changed this does

This does feel jarring.

Like my kid will watch Indiana Jones someday and be like, it's kind of aggressive with girls, dad.

Like, like,

you go, oh, I'm not saying,

like, I don't, I don't care and I'm not looking for a debate on it, but I'm just like, oh, whoa, like the shifts stand out that like this was the most charming motherfucker of our childhood twice.

I ooh franchise, him charming the shit out of all of us.

And it does, you do flag it pretty quickly.

in 2025.

I just think there's an interesting kind of rug pull on this movie, like sort of emasculating him halfway through, because the second his dad enters, it's like he's infantilized.

And also, his dad's like, instantaneously calls him sir.

Right.

And also, his dad's like, yeah, I fucked her, you know, and it's just sort of like it kind of defangs that weird sexual element of him in a way, where it's like, now he's like a little boy.

Also, it comes, the reveal comes via she talks in her sleep, which I think famously was an improvised line.

It's a very good line, or either improvised or maybe suggested by someone.

Let's open the dossier.

Ben.

What's up, Griff?

This is an ad break.

Yeah.

And I'm just, this isn't a humble brag.

It's just a fact of the matter.

Despite you being on mic, oftentimes when sponsors buy ad space on this podcast, the big thing they want is personal host endorsement.

Right.

They love that they get a little bonus ben on the ad read, but technically, that's not what they're looking for.

But something very different is happening right now.

That's true.

We had a sponsor come in and say, we are looking for the coveted Ben Hosley endorsement.

What?

This is laser targeted.

The product.

We have copy that asks, is the product a porch movie?

It certainly is.

And what is today's episode sponsored by?

The Toxic Avenger.

The new Toxic Avenger movie is coming to theaters August 29th.

Macon Blair's remake of

reimagining, whatever.

Reboot of the Toxic Avenger.

Now, David and I have not gotten to see it yet, but they sent you a screener link.

Yeah, I'm going to see it.

We're

excited to see it.

But, Ben, you texted us last night.

This fucking rules.

It fucks.

It honks.

Yeah.

It's so great.

Let me read you the cast list here in billing orders.

They asked, which I really appreciate.

Peter Dinklage, Jacob Tremblay, Tremblay, Taylor Play Page with Elijah Wood, and Kevin Bacon.

Tremblay is Toxie's son.

His stepson.

His stepson.

Okay.

Wade Goose.

Yes.

Great name.

Give us the the takes.

We haven't heard of them yet.

Okay.

You got fucking Dinkledge is fantastic.

He's talking about it.

He plays it with so much heart.

It's such a lovely performance.

Bacon is in the pocket too, man.

He's the bad guy.

He's the bad guy.

There's a lot of him shirtless.

Okay.

Looking like David.

David sizzling.

Yep.

And then Elijah Wood plays like a dang-ass freak.

He certainly does.

He's having a lot of fun.

Tell us some things you liked about the movie.

Okay, well, I'm a Jersey guy.

I just got to say the original movie was shot in the town where I went to high school.

Yes, yes, that's right.

The original film.

Yep.

I grew up watching toxic and trauma movies on porches.

Yes.

With my sleazy and sticky friends.

It informed so much of my sensibility.

Your friends like Junkyard Dog and Headbanger.

Yeah, exactly.

Making Toxic Crusader jokes.

And so when I heard that they were doing this new installment, I was really emotionally invested.

It was in limbo for a while before our friends at Ciniverse rescued it and are now releasing it uncut.

But I feel like there have been years of you being very excited at the prospect, but also a little weary.

They're playing with fire here.

Yeah, it's just, it's something that means a lot to me.

And they knocked it out of the fucking park.

Okay.

It somehow really captured.

that sensibility, that sense of humor, even just that like lo-fi, scrappy kind of nature that's inherent in all of the trauma movies and the original Toxie movies.

And they have like updated in this way that it was just, I was so pleased with it.

It's gooey

gooey.

Tons of blood, tons of goo,

great action.

It's really fucking funny.

It just, it hits all of the sensibilities that you would want in an updated version.

Cineverse last year released Terrifier 3 Unrated.

Yeah.

Big risk for them there.

I feel like it's a very, very.

intense movie and one of the huge hits.

More interesting, yeah, theatrical box office phenomenons the last five years.

Want to make that happen again here

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Summon the nuts is in reference to a

psychotic new metal band.

Hell yeah.

Who are also mercenaries.

Cool.

And drive a van

with a skeleton giving two fingies up on the grill.

And that's all I'll say.

Okay.

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Before Indiana Jones' Last Crusade, Steven Spielberg was supposed to make Rainman.

That was a masterful moment of leadership.

Thank you leading us out of our manic.

Well, please, I'm going to keep leading us out of it.

And just

tell you, Geth, things we've covered in the previous Indiana Jones movies.

Spielberg really wanted to make James Bond.

They kept rejecting him.

Lucas comes to him and is like, I got a good idea.

This is like the James Bond killer.

But when he brings it to him, he's like, if you make it, you have to promise me you make three.

There's sort of this handshake deal of like, I want this to be a franchise and I don't want you to run off and have shittier jaws sequels in your wake.

I need three out of you.

So he's not contractually like tied on paper, but he owes a third Indiana Jones.

Like a pinky swear.

Totally.

And so I don't want to talk too much about George Lucas.

He doesn't have much to do with it.

They're working on scripts for years, right?

And it's just sort of not happening.

And Spielberg has this attitude of like, I'm not going to do the third one unless I like the script because we kind of got eaten alive on template.

Drain man.

Martin Brest project.

Martin Brest drops out.

Steven Spielberg works in that project for a long time.

Of course, he eventually drops out for reasons that Griffin is kind of setting up.

And Barry Levinson takes over and wins Best Picture and Best Director.

And Best Director, both of them.

Which are trophies that Spielberg obviously was hunting for in the 1980s.

Also interesting to think about him potentially working with Tom Cruise 15 years earlier than he actually was working with Dustin and Tom Cruise on it.

Like it's a whole thing.

And he says they just could not get the script where he wanted it.

And they hit this point where

they were planning on an indie you know indie three memorial day 1989 and he was like i'm just gonna have to stop doing rainman because like i won't have enough time to do indie essentially so you know

he's made a lot of grown-up movies right like before last crusade he's made he's back to back made uh color purple and empire of the sun these two sort of like conscious departures from like the spielberg type of movie and temple of doom is also like a spielberg movie that's kind of fighting itself.

I think the public is like, can you go back to doing something?

Can you go have fun?

Be a showman again.

The other movie, of course, that Spielberg almost does is Big, which was written by his sister Ann.

And

he wanted Harrison Ford to play the part, you know, to play

Joey, Joel, right?

Yeah.

You know, the

imagine Harrison Ford.

Josh.

Josh back.

Josh.

Harrison Ford at F.A.O.

Schweitz.

I just don't see that at all of design toys.

Just pointing his finger at people.

I like candy.

He decides that he would be stealing his sister's thunder in a way.

That's the way he sort of puts it.

And he, I don't know, he steps aside.

Which, look, I think was smart.

And like, the path works out better for everyone involved.

Harrison Ford.

has had kind of a great run post uh temple of doom he does witness gets an oscar nomination i still think it's one of his best movies is that witness very good every screenwriting book talks about it.

It's Witnessable.

Then he does another movie.

It's Down and Witness.

Another movie with Peter Weir, Mosquito Coast, that I feel like at the time is mixed reception, but is a good movie.

He talks about that as being a real turning point in his career: like, this is not what the public wants out of Harrison Ford.

I can't fight it.

They're like, they're bought into the brand, and they don't care about me going and doing something I find interesting.

They want to see me.

play the hits.

But it's an excellent film with an excellent performance.

And then in 8080, this Frantic, that's not a huge hit, although it's not a bad movie, the Polanski movie.

And Working Girl, which is a great hit for him.

And I think a nice swerve in terms of the diversity can be a distinction movie of just like this guy's movie star-like power is expanding.

While Spielberg and Ford are off doing all this stuff, George Lucas, who we're not going to talk about much, apparently.

I don't have that much to do with this.

Is developing whatever this will be.

Tentatively, initially, The Monkey King was the name of this entry.

Sure, sure.

which is like ancient Chinese mythology, a very big figure.

He says at first he had said to Steven Spielberg, like, what about the Holy Grail?

And Steven Spielberg had been like, meh.

Uh, then he, uh, you know, he goes over to the Monkey King.

Um,

wait a second.

Oh, I see.

Spielberg says when he was said holy grail, he was like, Are we going to have like rabbits jumping out of, you know, like he was like, Monty Python?

Oh, in his mind, the like the shadow of Monty Python was too big to take Holy Grail seriously.

I respect.

Respect.

Yeah, I like that.

So, right.

So, this Monkey King idea, which Chris Columbus, a writer of gremlins at that point,

is a big amblin, yeah, in-house developed something.

It eventually is called Indiana Jones in the Lost City of Sun Woo King.

Okay.

Not rolling off the tongue.

But has this prelude set in a haunted castle, which was something they thought about for Indy 2 of like, what if we did like a big haunted Scottish castle with Indy?

And then mostly it's like

set in the Far East or whatever.

This all gets junked.

You know, they eventually just like forget it.

There is, I think, a script you can read out there, though.

Like, there's something out there that people have found.

And that's when George Lucas is like, please, Holy Grail, can we do my idea for the Holy Grail?

There also have always been the rumors that Diane Thomas at some point was developing a version that was the haunted castle expanded at large.

The haunted castle thing was just around for a long time.

They're like throwing a lot of shit at the wall, but Spielberg was like, I just did poltergeist.

I don't want to do another haunted house movie, even if it's a castle.

Lucas is Holy Grail.

Holy Grail.

Spielberg is like, Can we put his dad in it?

Spielberg said, basically, takes total credit for, like, I was the one who's like, that's holy grail is not that interesting to me.

The dad thing is interesting.

Weird.

I wonder why Steven Spielberg was insistent on putting a complicated dad relationship into a movie.

So he's like, we can do a character study here.

Like, there can be some juice there.

And George Lucas says, How is that conducive to the Grail search?

Sounds like George was a real fun guy.

George Lucas famously does not like

using interiority to interrogate his own relationship to his father.

It's just like, no, Darth Vader is just based on the future.

Also, Lucas is like, well, the dad could be like the Grail Hunter in a way.

Right.

Like, that could be the thing.

And Ford likes that idea.

They bring in Meno Mayhez, who wrote Color Purple.

Uh-huh, of course.

A Dutch white man who wrote the color purple.

They don't like that script, so they bring in Jeff Bohm, who is the credited guy who had done the lethal weapon movies.

Big thing I read, Bohemian.

Banter.

Yes.

Well, also that in the Menho script, to a certain extent, Jones Sr.

was the MacGuffin.

You had this thing of like, he's been kidnapped.

He's gone missing looking for it.

You don't get to him until the very end of the movie.

And Jeff Bohm's like, that's the halfway point.

You want to

have half a movie of them riffing off you.

I was actually shocked re-watching it to come in today.

It's, it's.

deeper into the existing movie than it.

It's 48 minutes in.

Yes.

Where I was like, oh, you already have a really good, fun 48 minutes.

Like, imagine Sean Connery even appears.

Yes.

And imagine if he didn't enter until they like got to the cave at the end.

You know, and you just, I feel like we talk about so many modern movies that do this, especially like Lega sequels and shit, where they're like, and then at the end, you bring out the old guy or whatever.

And you're just like, no, we want to see it.

Like, it feels like sometimes movies outthink the big blow up like pop at the end of the movie.

And like, they think that's the maximum impact and stringing the audience along in anticipation until that point you're like no we want to see the characters we like doing stuff if you have a good hook let it play out rather than let it be a twist so you know i think they settled well right on what you're talking about uh they

initially lucas is imagining kind of an olivier type like an eccentric british guy

more prim and proper person but spielberg is immediately like no james bond like we need sean Connery, which is just like a billion-dollar idea.

Now, Sean Connery is only 12 years older than Harrison Ford, but they, I think they sell that just great.

Ford looks weirdly young, like, I guess, for his age.

And Connery looked old.

The fact that he let himself go bald and wasn't dying his hair and all that shit.

You know, he's got the gray.

I feel.

Lucas is a flat no.

He's like, no, he's James Bond.

It's overwhelming.

It's too much.

And Spielberg is correctly like, unlike James Bond at this point.

And like, Untouchables has recontextualized him in a really good way.

And I also think the 12-year age difference, I feel was like a movie fun fact that was, I heard a lot as a child of like, you want to hear something crazy in like books I read about movies or like in theater pre-movie trivia.

And much like the box office record getting like beaten multiple times, I feel like there are now so many movies where you're like, the mom is five years older, where the 12 years between Connery and Ford doesn't feel that insane anymore.

I'm also like,

I kind of buy that Connery could have gotten someone pregnant when he was 12.

Not to be gross about it.

I don't think the movie is asking us to accept that.

It comes down to that.

But that's your vaccine story.

That's your vaccine.

Going off of that, though.

Sean Richards.

He's like one of these

teachers.

I'm going to say a lot of money

is having a really close relation with his history teacher.

Hand Burger.

Perhaps some extracurricular studies.

I'm picturing a 12-year-old full beard.

Fall through puberty.

Listen, the thing I have to say is

that staying down, by the way, major cut can stand down.

They bring Connery the script.

He has some notes.

He's Sean Connery.

He comes over to George, according to Spielberg, and says, look, anything Indy does in the context of the story, I have done better.

When he talks about sleeping with Elsa, write in that I slept with her too.

That's Connery.

putting that in.

Now, in that context, it sounds like Connery is going to do shit that is nonsense, but back to back.

I do think it was a gift for the movie.

I do think they figured out the right way to execute that.

Connery is so charming and funny in this movie.

Is it fair to say he is to the Indiana Jones franchise what Samuel Jackson is to the diehard franchise?

This injection of joy and

third one.

I know what you're saying.

Right.

The third one is getting like a kind of one is wobbly.

We covered killer performance brings.

We covered those last year.

And it was right.

And it was a similar thing, but we're just like, Die Hard 2 doesn't have a handle on what this is anymore and is just trying to repeat the same thing and find ways to flip it you're right where they're just like we need to like balance this with something else we need someone i agree with you i think that's a really good take thank you so much and also solves their problem of like how do you top marion connery's take is which is like don't make it a new love interest he thinks indie is kind of

the tension between griffin's interjections and david david's no i'm just i'm just trying to get i got you i got you i'm with i'm on your team i'm a good boy

I'm truly just trying to read this uh great statement from Sean Connery who's definitely not problematic in any way.

Okay.

I didn't want the father to be so much of a wimp aside from the fact that Indiana Jones is not as well dressed as James Bond.

I mean, they're not really in the same dress area.

Yes.

But okay.

The main difference between them is sexual.

Indiana deals with women shyly.

In the first film, he's flustered when the student writes, I love you on her eyelids.

James Bond would have had all those young co-eds for breakfast.

Just he used to just, you know.

Say shit.

Yeah.

I do feel like they kind of trick Connery into playing more of a wimp than he realizes.

By doing this bit of he's kind of like the whole movie being like,

all these theatrics.

It's unbecoming to do this fucking adventure hero shit.

Like the intellectual aspect of it, even if he's like fucked Elsa first, it does have this vibe of just like, He is a man of letters.

He is smarter and more mature.

And he's unimpressed with everything in these same alpha energy of like, I don't know how to use these guns and planes and shit.

And when they're in the car, he's just like, go faster.

You know, or it's like.

It's the perfect balance of the two things.

They found a way to satisfy his, I need to be the coolest guy note in a way that is funny and gives Indiana Jones more to fight against in terms of feeling low status.

But I also think some of that is to give credit to the filmmakers and the choices surrounding it, like, is not some of that intentional in the themes of like, nobody thinks their dad is cool

when you're young.

Yeah.

And then you grow up and realize maybe your dad has done some cool stuff.

And then obviously, the other side of the coin, which I think the idea of this being the fulcrum between son to father in Spielberg, you go, in a movie that is weirdly almost all set pieces and almost all big adventure fun,

that line Sean Connery has of like, I never even told him anything.

It would have taken five minutes.

Weirdly emotional to watch as a dad right now who has thought a lot about my relationship with my father and my relationship with my son.

You, you did a great one-person show that is available for public consumption.

On audible, on audible,

that is all about that, about you sort of re-examining your relationship with your father through the prism of being a dad.

That line always, I mean, I will also say, and I don't want to jump too far ahead, like, I do have such a distinct, you know, when you learn how movies work, some of the magic goes away.

I remember being nine years old and when the tank went off the cliff, I was, I was like, oh, shit.

Oh, Indiana Jones

is dead.

Okay.

I had not

been trained.

You hadn't been trained that that was never going to happen.

Yeah.

So that movie, that moment really stands out to me, but re-watching it today as a dad of like, I never, it would have taken five minutes.

Here's the other thing I think this movie is very clever about is like the real narrative spine of this thing, or let's say the emotional spine of this is that like

Indiana Jones would tell you, I'm nothing like my father.

Right.

I hate my father.

I hate, but he resent my dad.

I didn't really know that.

He and I didn't know each other.

He was not good at, he was not there for me.

And I think it's the brilliance of the opening sequence, which kind of does this mislead of like Indiana Jones had one encounter with this random stranger who seems so fucking cool and mythical that he modeled his whole life after him.

And yet this movie is like, Indiana Jones doesn't realize that he's become his father.

That so much of what he does is informed by his father.

He's like the difference is his dad of like, you bailed and dodged all responsibility when the only reason he's here is because we watched him climb out of a window to not do his job at the U.S.

And not to jump all the way to the end, but it's like the thing of.

Connery on the floor talking through the things he hopes Indiana Jones has digested about the Grail

so that he can make it through the traps and Indy's running running it in his head, and it being this sort of silent, disconnected dialogue between the two of them.

Although I would argue, Griffin, and we can pin this for later.

I would actually argue that the narrative spine of this movie, strangely, is

an ode to the wonders of transportation.

Okay, well, I'm interested in that.

You're lighting that up right now.

I want to just say the other, the prologue, the young Indiana Jones prologue, is another George Lucas idea that Spielberg is also very resistant to, kind of against Bielberg being being like, I've kind of done that, right?

Like, I've done so much, you know, movies about kids and stuff like that.

Also, do we need to like explain Indiana Jones?

Which I'm like, this is the good version of what I hate every time a modern franchise movie tries to do it.

This movie somehow just like gives you 10 minutes with a lot of like, that's the first time with the whip.

That's the first time with the hat.

Here's how we got the scar.

I love it so much.

And part of it's that it's like, they don't hit it with dialogue, that it's all visual and that it moves so fast.

And that part of it is like dismantling him as like, this is like a show.

This is like a posture, you know?

Are there any other films you guys can think of that do the little mini movie before the movie?

Like Inglorious Bastards.

Yeah, there's, I feel like there's, I mean, my recent Fave the Empty Man.

Yeah.

You know, I like movies that do that, that are kind of like.

Right, like we're going to tell a whole contained little mood setting story.

Some of the lore, some of the,

I mean, that is a James Bond thing.

usually it's sort of like we're gonna have a whole little james bond mission happen and then credits and then james bond will begin the main mission which may or may not be connected that much there's maybe more of it in horror like the opening of screens version of that you know the misdirect of like this is your favorite lots of examples but i do always love that This one is beloved, right?

In general, I would imagine

as any people that are like, the River Phoenix thing felt like extraneous.

Hard of it is the River Phoenix.

He's really good.

He had worked with him on Mosquito Coast where he was the hair sign.

And like they pitched this to Ford and he's like, A, I think River Phoenix is a great actor.

B, that's the working actor in his age group who looks the most like I looked at at that age.

Have you guys looked up?

I looked up

the chubby wet friend.

The chubby wet friend.

Yeah, he's really good.

The River Football.

Oh, it is me.

The story of that actor is pretty fascinating.

Really?

Who's the actor?

Pretty fascinating.

Who's the actor?

Do you remember?

I am remiss because I took a bunch of notes on my laptop, which I did not bring.

But that actor,

look, if you.

Is it fascinating in a way where if we start talking about it on Mike, it would bum us out?

No, I don't think so.

I think he, if I remember right now, he's like a fitness guru with a lot of opinions on having been in the Indiana Jones mini-movie.

Was he credited as chubby wet?

No, I forget his character's name, but he's just,

he's a chubby friend and he's strangely wet.

He's sweaty to the degree of wetness through the entirety of the River Finn.

They're in the desert.

Yeah, no, it's a warranted wetness.

Can I sidebar to Jeff Bohm for a moment?

Had like a killer fucking screenwriting career.

And you look at this guy.

He dies at 50.

He's like credited on all these like big Amblynny movies or sequels or whatever.

And you're like, oh, this guy must have been like a Shane Black Joe Esterhouse.

Like died in a mountain of cocaine, was like doing high-paid script punch-ups.

No.

No, okay.

Okay.

He had like a bizarre like heart illness.

He died young after a protracted battle.

And then you read about him for being this guy who they like brought in to fix scripts and got paid so much and has all these huge credits.

He sounds a lot closer to John Hughes, where it was like, didn't like the industry, was a real family man, just had really good story math instincts.

And all these things where they'd bring him a script that was like, this has been development for 10 years.

The premise is great, but yet no one can crack it.

We keep attaching talent, but we lose them.

And he would just be like, here's the problem right here.

And just immediately solve it.

Like the emotions of it.

And you can read his Wikipedia is really thorough and actually very well written

and goes through like project by project and what his takes on each project.

Very few he originated.

And it was like one of his things where he was like.

Henry Jones Sr.

has to come through at the halfway point.

Like stuff like that, where he would just immediately go, that's the movie.

And it's just kind of a tragic loss.

Um,

the thing about his screenplay, just to note, is that according to Spielberg, Tom Stofford wrote every single line of dialogue in this film.

That I believe, which was sort of like at that point, Stopfford had written Empire of the Sun for him.

Like, Stofford is right.

So, like, all those great lines we were talking about.

I think a lot of that is coming from Tom Stofford.

Anyway, Spielberg, I think, recognized as After Temple of Doom.

Oh, Dan Hill Elliott should be in this movie.

John Rhys Davis should be in this movie.

Like, I don't know why I didn't have his friends from the Raiders of the Lost Ark that everyone liked not being the second movie.

You talking about being surprised at how late Connery comes in.

I was surprised where I was like, in my memory, the whole second half of the movie is like the four of them as a wrecking crew.

To me, it was much closer to the River Phoenix prologue.

And then we're pretty quickly into this father's story.

It's like, oh, no, that's all.

after Venice and the search and all this stuff.

And because it ends with like, oh, the four of them riding off into the sunset iconically, I'm like, all four of them are together for the whole second half, right?

And it's like, no, Denim and like John Marie Stavies are kind of off at their own thing.

They only really all converge at the very end.

But it is so nice to have both of them in there.

And Spielberg's just so clearly aware of like, these guys fucking rule.

The audience loves these characters.

Let's give them more fun.

And which I think is a wise decision.

Allison Doody, who plays Elsa.

Which, let's say, is.

Funny to say, funny to hear.

An Irish actress.

Not to be disrespectful.

Her name is Allison Doody.

Her name is Allison Doodoo.

There's no,

you know, getting around.

I can't, as someone whose last name spells Gethart, I cannot participate in a last night.

Not me.

She made her debut as a sort of like small character in a view to a kill, the Bond movie.

Yes.

Which when we did that Patreon series, I was like, who the fuck is that?

Started doing like wolf whistles.

And then I was like, oh, it's Alison Duty.

And

so I guess she's kind of getting cast off of that.

It's sort of interesting.

She is kind kind of plucked out of relative obscurity.

Reed in her body doesn't really have

a big career.

He was like, I want a Grace Kelly.

I found this woman.

She looks like Grace Kelly.

She does have the look, like Geth was saying, like, to a T, you know, she.

But also, this character is going to be a weird fantasy.

You know, it's like, right.

It is again, we'll get there, but she is obviously an extraordinarily attractive human being and is playing an object of affection for multiple characters in this movie.

But a costumer made a choice to say, She shall be at her most smoking hot while in full Nazi regalia.

River Phoenix, obviously, brought to Spielberg by Harrison Ford.

Julian Glover, obviously, had been in The Empire Strikes Back, right?

Yes.

Yep.

We had him do.

I think he'd interviewed for other parts in Indiana Jones movies before.

He was very on their radar.

We had him on George Lucas' talk show.

A thing that I've told you, and you went, like, that's

kind of depressing.

You had Donovan?

You had Colonel Vex.

And the weird place is Colonel Viers, right?

No, he, yes, correct.

Yes.

He's the guy in the ATAT who's like.

Your favorite character?

No, my favorite.

No.

No, Piet is Admiral Piet.

I'm sorry.

Admiral Piette is way.

They are companion characters.

Yeah, but Admiral Piet.

My favorite thing in Star Wars is that sidebar of Empire, of the Empire 2 Jedi.

He's in both.

Yes.

The fact that he's just the guy who someone gets killed next to him, and then it's like, you're in charge.

And he's like,

David wrote a very good piece at the Atlanta.

Yeah, the Ballad of Admiral P.

Yeah, one of my best pieces.

And then, like, he makes it all the way to the end of Jedi.

Like, he keeps dodging Vader, strangling him, even though he fucks up himself.

He's in the corporate machine, climbing the corporate ladder, trying to stay out of the way, which is a very relatable thing for anyone who has ever worked in.

He's the only Star Wars Empire

Empire, I mean, member of the Empire, that they bother to give any arc.

Everyone else tends to just kind of die.

David, I guess I just don't understand your obsession with bringing up Star Wars everybody.

I love Admiral Piazza.

Speaking of favorite Star Wars characters, though, this movie has a kit fisto, everybody.

Who is?

Kazim.

Kazim is your fisto.

Kazim is the

cool of this movie.

I thought you were going to say that Grail Knight is your fisto.

Oh, wait,

oh, there's so many.

The Grail Knight is cool.

The Grail Knight's maybe the saddest character in the history.

The Grail Knight is very melancholy.

We need to save this, but when I threw the list to Geth and was like, we're doing Spielberg, what do you want?

You responded with a Grail Knight specific.

There's so much a statement that might sound hyperbolic, but that I kind of agree with you.

What did I say?

I'll remind you, but it was your whole reason for why I do this movie.

You didn't tell me the stuff with your dad as being such a pivotal experience.

You focused on the Grail Knight and you had a take.

And I said, you have to do that episode.

It's, I have so much to say about the Grail Knight, but what maybe maybe Kazim is like the sassy 10.

Kazim is the guy.

He's the Kid Fisto, though, where he shows up, doesn't get much screen time.

I mean, you're kind of like, I want to see, like, this guy has to be like, where I'm like, I would want, whatever this fucking Brotherhood of the Cruciform Sword bullshit is,

give me a Disney Plus preview.

Give me an Andor for the Cruciform Sword crew.

I think I can say this.

Who's Kazim?

He has fucked shit up in his life.

He will do so again.

And now he's gone.

What?

That's Kid Fisto.

Years ago, auditioned for what they had said was untitled star wars project and when i read the sides i was like this is clearly a young indiana jones show uh-huh uh-huh and it was going to be animated and then i think as like dial of destiny was kind of getting complicated they were like let's just focus on this and not do the sideshow

but there was going to be a disney plus animated sort of like

River Phoenix-esque rather than young Indiana Jones-esque.

And after X-Men 97, I think they could pull it off.

X-Men 97, some of the best television.

But there's nothing like X-Men 97 where it's like, people are not only nostalgic for the sort of old throwback X-Men, they're nostalgic for the 90s cartoon aesthetics, the 90s cartoon plotting.

Like, it's like, it's not just that X-Men 97 is like, oh, let's sort of like do a new X-Men.

It's like, no, no, no, we're picking up the thread

of that show.

Weirdly bold again.

Weirdly bold to go, it's not a new show.

Yeah, it's like sort of just seasoning it in the back.

And also, we're just like picking good comic storylines that weren't adapting.

Everyone who likes this has aged by 25 to 30 years.

So, like, we'll do some stuff you can handle 25 to 30 years.

Yeah, it'll be normal if they're age it up and it's a wild swing.

It was good.

But the thing that was very funny about the Indiana Jones cartoon thing was usually, you know, you'll get these breakdowns and it'll be like untitled Lucasfilm Project.

And you read it and you're like, this is Star Wars, but they're trying to hide that it's Star Wars.

Yes.

They're like Space Bears famously.

Right.

This they sent out as untitled Star Wars cartoon show.

And I was like, oh, cool.

I'm auditioning for a Star Wars cartoon show.

And then I read the sides and they gave all the characters alien names, but they talked about being at a university and studying adventurers and wanting to collect relics.

And I was like, you're using Star Wars as a cover for it being Indiana Jones.

And you've named all the characters like Blork Blork.

But I was like, I think I'm reading for either young Sala or young Brody.

It was one or the other.

Your Waddo experience could make you a fantastic animated Sala.

I think so, but this show has just not happened.

David, what?

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I'm going to push back on Kazim being the Fisto, and I'm going to say this.

I'm going to explain my reason behind this.

Not that he's not your Fisto, but in terms of his function in relation to the movie.

And it's what I like about Kazim.

Okay.

Okay.

Is that like, you're saying, oh, he's mysterious.

I'd love to watch a whole series about him.

He's like...

He goes a little deeper than this character does in the other Indiana Jones films, the characters that occupy this kind of role, right?

We joked about in the other episodes that like outside of your main like intellectual rival in the Indiana Jones movies, most of the iconic Indiana Jones villains don't have names.

It's like German mechanic and monkey man and like thuggy guard, right?

The guy who swings things around until you get swordsman.

I mean, truly, like...

The merch doesn't even name them, which Lucas loves doing.

They all are just the description of who they are and you get nothing more, right?

And even if you're spending a whole sequence with the fucking guy and there's a sense of character, you're like, this guy is defined by his, what he wears or what his job is or what he holds.

And that is his whole fucking prism.

The fact that Kazim like introduces himself and starts to explain himself a little already makes him a little less mysterious.

And you're just like, oh, I'm not used to like Indiana Jones like side goons being fleshed out to this degree.

And I similarly think it's a nice surprise when he pops back up again when he's

so blatantly facing away from camera until he.

But you're like, I was ready to never see Kazim again.

But I think the Fisto thing is that, like, see, we have a, I think, a fundamental misunderstanding of what the Fisto is as a film archetype, which I think everyone would agree that is a film archetype.

It is.

Let's unpack that.

But I just think the idea of like, who's that person?

They're visually intriguing.

They're.

Kazim looks great.

Looks great.

And also,

both Kazim and Fisto, those parts were written small, but I would argue that

the actors,

the actors squeezed more juice.

The actors squeezed more juice out of that than ever was intended by the screenwriter director.

Fucking juicer machine performance.

Dude,

these the Fisto is the juicer of the movie.

Who squeezed more juice than you ever thought?

And Kazim squeezed so much more juice and intrigued the audience to a degree where, much like Fisto in the prequel trilogies, you can't help but walk away and go,

there are parts of the plot I don't remember.

And I've been looking forward for decades to learn the plot of this.

But what I do remember is that that green guy with those tendrils was

cool.

Kit Fisto, except for this is his reaction to Palpatine, you know, attacking with a lightsaber.

Yeah, I mean,

it's the worst part of the movie.

I would argue

that the false impression of Kit Fisto.

Kazim's death in this, I would say, may be equally underwhelming compared to his punching above his weight and earning a little bit more in the audience's money.

O Dead Fair in The Mummy.

Yes.

Is kind of a plussed-up version of this character.

He's Kazim as like Kazim

in the whole movie, where it's like, right, they're going to the mummy's tomb, and a guy shows up who's like, my entire life job is making sure nobody fucking goes to the mummy's tomb.

Both, I know how scary it is, and it's this sort of like holy thing for for me.

You're right, though.

It's one of the smart things the mummy does is it makes Kazim the child.

Have that character basically join the team.

It makes Kazim the Sol.

And then he can show up.

Sure.

I'm going to say one more time.

Okay.

It kind of makes Kazim the Sol.

Can I also put another thing out here that I never thought I'd have an opportunity to say?

And this did just occur to me.

This was not pre-planned.

Yeah.

As we establish the archetype of the Fisto.

The reason that the movie The Warriors is such a cult classic that has stood the test of time, even with the director's cuts trying to make it worse.

Is it's a movie comprised almost entirely of fistos.

I think it is fair to say that movie is an oops-all fistos.

Exactly.

That movie is

even half the main characters are fistos.

Something went wrong at the Cap and Crunch Factory, and now the whole movie is made out of fistos.

That entire gathering that happens like

it's a conventional, yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

This is my dream conversation.

Can you dig it, Fisto?

Grail Knights.

No, no, no.

We're not getting to Grail Knights.

We're not getting to Grail Knights.

That did the end of the movie.

The city is yours if you fistos can count.

I will say, just

come out and play.

To return to the dossier, this film was shot.

I don't want to go down to Combo Warriors.

Fisto rabbit hole in your Indiana Jones in the Last Crusade episode.

This film is shot in 63 days, which is fairly impressive given the scale.

Spielberg.

The vibe from this set is literally basically: everyone's just like, we had a great time.

Everyone got along and it went really well.

Like, there is no drama emerging from Last Crusade.

Ford and Connery are like, we fucking clicked right away.

We both liked what we were doing.

Can I put forth

obviously at the absolute peak, I think, at this point of like, give this man an action sequence and we'll run it like a machine.

Can I put forth a movie analog?

Yes.

Oceans 13 and Last Crusade, I think, are similar.

Yes.

yes i mean last crusade's better than ocean's 13.

i do like ocean's 13 no i think last crusade's a much better version of this but like we tried something different with the second one and people were less into it we're sorry we're gonna give you the exact indiana jones sequel we think you want you know and i think there is that like freedom especially because he's coming off of some grown-up movies where he's like it'd be fun to play with toys again and like He makes Schindler's List.

So shortly after this, things like making the Nazi Woman hot.

The merchandising line from Schindler's List notoriously bombed i i will say spielberg insists on

i did get shooting the last time he's able to kind of have this sort of yeah but that's what classic that's what i don't like about this movie is if some of it feels a little right uh

i don't know touching below is yeah it's below can i say one other thing too if in the movie the warriors

you replaced every time they said the word boppers with the word fistos

everything about that movie not only still works but gets better i'll move on i'll move on.

He's holding up a noose.

I'll move on.

I'll move on.

I don't care about this.

No, my point about Last Crusade.

Spielberg insists or has the idea of including a moment that I really think is interesting in Last Crusade, which is when you see when they're in Berlin, like books being burned, which is this moment of like...

unlevity, right?

Like where you're like, Jesus fucking Christ.

Almost every other moment, the Nazis in this movie are cartoon nobodies, right?

Who are literally just like bowling pins for Indie to knock down.

Old, crusty guys.

He makes them like feeble,

really toothless in this movie in a way that's interesting compared to even Raiders, where they're quite sinister and like, you know, good villains.

And certainly given that he's beginning to think about things like Schindler's List.

This is 89 and Schindler's List is 93.

I don't have a problem with it.

It's not like I'm like, oh, this movie is, you know, offensive, like, you know, with its cartoon Nazis.

I'm just kind of like, it does feel like Spielberg has run out of things to do with that sort of stuff.

Like, it's like, it's a little painful

that they're so silly.

I mean, this movie is silly.

This movie has a very good tone to it that it doesn't deviate from.

Even the book burning scene, though, I'm like, it has this, it puts a pit in your stomach, and it has since I was a kid.

It does.

And they're marching.

It's one of the only moments that really does that.

But then it goes on so long that you do start to realize like.

Even with all this, they're just marching in a fucking circle, sniffing their own farts.

Right.

There is like.

You don't think there's any part of Spielberg Spielberg that's like, fuck these Nazis.

I think there is.

I just, they're toothless and our two main heroes.

Sleepy is one of them.

I think, you know,

have we talked about that?

I think the Nazis are scarier and Raiders.

I think

I think, weirdly, I agree with you that they're sort of like a more pointed kind of like.

These clowns.

Yeah.

Yeah.

In a way.

As much as he makes them goofier and this movie has so much more of a like cartoon tone.

it does feel like he's attacking them in personality and like culturally a lot more.

I even think that like Hitler signing the Grail Diary thing

is like a moment of just like, right, this guy's just like a fucking narcissist, right?

Like all of this just came out of this guy with like a complex who like literally when handed the thing he's hired goons to find for him, still just thinks that someone.

Right.

You wrote my autograph, right?

There's also, I just on like a contextual note, this movie, I did realize, I'm like, oh, these guys who are actors, who go to school for it, who train, who work really hard, who get to a level where they can be in major motion pictures, and then

they happen to look enough like Hitler to credibly play Hitler.

Well, you never wanted a phone call.

You know what I mean?

I'm like, damn, man, that's a typecasting that's real weird.

We've talked about in other recent episodes, like the world of people who are that for Lincoln, and that's that's a much better silo to be in.

There's Hitler.

You know, there's Hitler.

Julia decks of Hippo.

Like, you'll book shit, but you got to keep putting on that little fucking mustache.

But I just want to, I just want to tell you guys something that seems you do not know.

Do you know who plays Hitler in this movie?

I always forget.

It's Michael Sheard is the name of the actor.

But do you know another role that he played?

He plays Ozzel, Admiral Ozel.

Ah, yes.

The Empire Striker.

Again, David, you're really pushing the Star Wars thing.

Who is the guy who comes out of light speed too fast, fucks up, gets killed so that Admiral P.

gets to leave the next one.

Do you tell me who Admiral Ozel is?

I'm just saying, I don't think that guy played Hitler again.

I have not always been respectful on this show.

I've not always been the most respectful guest.

That's one of the

things that I'm saying.

Let me just remind you.

Anyone's ever done this?

Let me just remind you that our show is being listened to by people who may not immediately know who fucking Admiral Ozel is.

Speaking of Star Wars Admirals, I recently did text Bobby Moynihan, and I'm not someone who smokes weed at all.

I just texted Bobby the other day.

What if Admiral Akbar wasn't an actor?

What if that was a real guy?

What if you were like, I'll mine at Trader Joe's and the guy talking out in front of you, and you had to be, you could be like, oh, yeah, big fan.

I don't know if I can repeat it, but Bobby Moynihan's Akbar baby used to do with the UCB.

Oh, no, no, no.

No, I can't say it, but was incredibly good.

Can I close two loops on two things here, David?

I shudder.

Things that have already been set up.

What?

So Julian Sands was on George Lucas' talk show, right?

It was.

Julian Sands.

No.

No, I'm sorry.

Julian Glover.

I'm sorry.

When I told you that, you were like, that's depressing for him.

Yes.

That he had to be interviewed by you guys.

And I think was in London.

We were doing an all-day stream of people who have been in movies with Harrison Ford and using that as the thread.

So we talked to him about like both Star Wars and Indiana Jones.

He said that Donovan is easily his favorite role he's ever played in his career.

He's really, really good.

And for a guy who's like classically trained, I expect him to sort of be like, well, those are like fun, silly movies I did for money.

And they're like serious roles I prefer.

And he was like, no, it was so great to be the main baddie in an Indiana Jones movie.

And he has

fun with the turn.

Look, he's really good.

I think he's a great villain.

He's probably,

it's weird.

He is the main villain.

He is.

And at the same time, it's like...

You have Vogel and you have Ellis.

And Ellison Duty's kind of more than like the

active villain in a way.

But he's really good.

And the turn is really clever with him.

I know.

now, to this point of what we were saying about this movie's like take on the Nazis, I think this character is sort of like a heightening of

fucking Belloc, right?

Where it's like this guy has like a lot less swag than Belloc.

He's a lot less cool.

He's just kind of a dork in a certain way.

He's like a rich dork hobbyist.

That's the thing.

He's he's like all these jerks we have to deal with now.

Where it's like it's very weird.

Where I'm like, you don't even have an ideology.

Probably you became a Nazi nazi because you want the holy grail because it's like so

i just want to live forever and we're living in an era where some of these billionaire assimiles are trying to figure out

bellock is sort of just like i don't you know when indian jones is like you're working with nazis he's just sort of like i don't think about things that way right like donovan is

coming up with moral justice i joined the club so that i can like get the holy grail right and then has this terrifying line of like I'll be living forever long after the Nazi party is dead.

Like, it doesn't matter what I did to support them.

But you also have him like set up in the movie the way the film introduces him it feels like he is the guy who sends indiana jones on the mission not the guy who's going to be his rival time right and you're like he fits into that role of just being the guy who like introduces the macuff and of course it's a little too slick yeah it's a little too slick but i'm like i i think there's something fun to this character being like these guys are not cool at all and people who do this are like morally bankrupt and like uninteresting all right can i just just before we we move on totally from one other thought?

I just got to give props.

Admiral Ozel and Hitler.

That's a hell of an IM.

I was going to say, that's what I was saying.

I was going to get on the tombstone.

I don't think that's an actor who did a lot of Hitler.

He had a broad British, whatever.

This was the other thing that

adds Hitler in there.

That Glover said was just like Spielberg was really loyal.

Or I'm sorry, Lucas was really loyal to those guys.

He's his British character actor guy.

And that he was saying, like, Steven, we're hiring Glover.

You know, like, my guys we've had in London have just been fucking.

I love the idea that George Lucas calls that guy up.

He's like, I got your back.

I'm going to get you back in.

It's going to be a blockbuster.

You're going to make residuals.

And you're playing

a really

well-known character.

Yo.

Yeah.

So you're going to be Adolf Hitler.

So clearly, I must have like some meaty monologues, right?

You're like, it's kind of a non-speaking thing.

What's the other loop?

It's an under five.

It's an under five.

What's the other loop, you wanted to call it?

I'm trying to remember.

I'll come back.

Don't forget.

I'll remember.

Not the episode.

Let's not jump to the end.

The whole thing with Last Crusade is like, as much as it has lots of fun stuff.

I do feel like 80% of what everyone wants to talk about is just the Grail scene because it's such a little short story of a scene, right?

And it's so weird.

And also the minute you start to overthink it, you're like, I'm sorry.

Else is just like, this one.

And he's like, yeah, I believe you.

Aren't you supposed to be like rich and smart?

I remember her all along the rocks.

I remember the other other thing that's more relevant in two earlier episodes but makes sense within the context of what we're talking about here i forgot to mention these two 1941 have you ever seen it geth i have not played spielberg film yet first spielberg's first attempt at like making nazis villains in a kind of like popcorn movie that isn't going to take it seriously right well they're barely it's only the film is more about the japanese but christopher lee plays a nazi officer who's working with the japanese and it just like doesn't work and christopher lee obviously like one of the greatest of all time.

He's doing his best.

And he's introduced speaking German.

And you're just like, I can't wait to hate Christopher Lee as a comedy Nazi.

And it doesn't connect.

Spielberg wrote and shot and cut Christopher Lee in 1941 doing the exact tote coat hanger bit.

He was like, here's a really funny idea.

You have a twisted Nazi character.

He takes out a device.

You think he's going to torture the guy.

There's this whole interrogation subplot in that movie.

And then it turns out it's just a coat hanger.

And this guy cares about his fancy clothes more.

And he was like, I thought it was so funny.

I put it in the movie, it fell fucking flat.

It was silenced.

It was dead.

And I couldn't get over it.

And I was like, I have to make this joke work in something.

And then I was like, Raiders, we built this character tote.

It would work for him.

Right.

And it was like, it fucking played like gangbusters.

I wasn't going to throw that out.

That speaks to his like growth in learning how to calibrate.

How can you do Nazis in a movie where you're not dealing with the full weight and severity of what they did, but you're also not completely turning them into like silly bullshit, right?

Which 1941, that's a larger problem with that movie.

It doesn't know how to deal with serious issues in a funny way.

Raiders does it in a more scary way, but pulpy.

This movie, I think, has the right version of like comedy Nazis because it does take more pot shots at their expense.

There's also just something, I do do think there's something to note about

there's a documentary, I believe, called The Last Laugh,

all about how Jewish comedians deal with Holocaust jokes.

And seeing someone of Spielberg's generation come about as a very prominent Jewish director and see him sort out how to portray Nazis throughout the course of his career.

There's just something obvious to be said about culturally, it's fascinating.

And like, there's no real way to get it right.

I just see him like that, does represent on some level

of feeling for

fun.

I think Allison Duty is fun.

I don't think, like, I'm just my big note for this movie.

It's not even a big note.

I don't care.

I like this movie.

I think it's fun.

I think it's a good movie.

It's just, I don't, there's nothing scary about the villainy in it, really.

So there's just not a lot of stakes.

But the whole second half, it's like, no, but the major conflict becomes him figuring out shit with his dad.

That conflict, that stuff is fine.

That sort of supplants the who's the bad guy to me.

That is then completely resolved after the tank goes off the cliff.

Like after that,

they are settled.

I think part of it, David, that's the best thing.

And then we just do the grail, which is fun.

But at that point, the Nazis, I'm not scared of them at all.

Well, one thing that really stands out to me, though, is just a big show-don't tell note of they basically say,

hey, if the Nazis get the holy grail, they kind of indicate now they'll be able to have these.

Nazi super soldiers that can't die.

Yeah, but they will.

Where you're just like, that's, as a viewer, I'd never buying that thing.

No, it's not going to happen.

That's the thing.

With Raiders,

the other thing.

With Raiders, there's this kind of, there is this more gripping, like, we both,

someone's going to get to this weird thing first.

And Lord knows what's in it.

But like, the Nazis have designs on its power.

With the Holy Grail.

Right.

There's this sort of like, well, what if someone got the Holy Grail?

And I'm like, what if someone got, what do you mean?

That he lives forever?

Like, okay, one guy?

Like, I mean,

you're going to have like your whole army come drink from the Holy Grail.

Like, at this point, and then, of course they get there and it's like, yeah, you can live forever if you stay right the fuck here in this place and you cannot leave.

You can't cross the seal.

Yeah, you can't cross the seal.

But like that's the Grail myth is always that easy.

I don't know when it's time to start talking about that scene.

I don't want to say that totally.

The Grail myth is, you know, in Arthurian legend all the way to this.

It's always right.

It's like, oh, well, that would be great.

And then you get there and you're like, I guess I didn't think hard about why this would be great because it's not great.

Like this wasn't worth it.

And the journey is the destination.

Yeah, the destination is the journey and all that.

It ties back into the Nazi thing, though, because how much of it there's also something fascinating too to watch of like hey

prominent jewish filmmaker dealing with nazis also in a movie that presupposes that christian mythology is happening that there is a holy grail that has magical powers well and right the original raiders is old testament it is far more rabbinical in like the

raiders is jewish right temple is hindu this is christian There's like a thing.

There's like a that.

Choices aren't made.

Choices aren't made.

And then Temple of Crystal Skull kind of a bit of a.

I mean, this is the thing that people always point out: like, the disconnect between the original trilogy and the two later old man indie movies more than anything is like the first three are all about like i don't believe in religion right it's like the supernatural but through specifically the prism

artifacts that people cared about

and hid away and like there's you know runic languages and there but right i don't actually think that the holy grail is going to keep me alive.

But you're calling it.

And every fucking time, it's like, oh, church grail keeps going.

Specific religious stories that, you know, like, versus the latter two are like, there's a thing he may or may not believe in, but it's a lot fudgier of like a time travel device or aliens.

This movie is like, it benefits from being like, yeah, fucking Athurian legend.

That's like so baked in.

But it does almost feel like it gets to the end.

And even Spielberg himself is kind of like,

and like

from the Holy Grail.

Like, it feels like a guy who has no certain

investment.

Is so goofy.

And I think it works.

But it is like on paper.

You're just like, this is

really so.

Do we talk about the grell?

With the River Phoenix stuff.

River Phoenix stuff, which feels like Spielberg dusting off the cobwebs and being like, you want Fun Spielberg?

Here's Fun Spielberg.

They're on top of a fucking circus.

train like those are

transportation in this all the way back to uh you know the greatest show on earth the big circus train sequence in that were the first cinematic sequence that impacted him.

But he's also just loading like everything up.

He's like, I'm going to give you all the fun.

They're on top of a moving train that has animals inside of it.

If you ask me, like, what's the big set-piece chase transportation-y thing in Last Crusade?

In my mind, as a fan, since I'm nine, I go, oh, the tank one.

And then you re-watch it.

You're like, they got a train.

Motorcycle.

Motorcycle sidecar.

They got a blimp.

Blimp.

You blimp.

Blimp.

Blimp.

They got a blimp.

Blimp, blimp, blimpy plot then the then the then the then the planes this movie is arguably about

transportation you're locking david back in he's leaning in i i hear what you're saying transportation infrastructure it's a love letter to the history of transportation and camels indie doesn't like camels i mean there is a running theme though of like nature's vehicle hey rats come and help you horses come and help you like do the rats help i guess they start the rats well the rats give them the heads up that the fire is on the horse right the running rats the rats

are pointedly not.

It's also like, hey, the Nazis have all this tech, but animals like Indiana Jones.

He's a more.

Well, and just like Indy uses a gun.

He will use a gun, but it's not really his primary thing.

Indian inelegant.

It's like a blaster.

Yeah.

Inelegal.

Random inelegant.

No, but like,

because when I'm now playing the Indiana Jones video game, which has been

which is really, really good.

Yeah.

And in that game, you don't have a gun initially.

You know, you can get one.

It's not like, again, but it's sort of like, right, you're like, no, Indy has like a whip and he like picks shit up and, you know, improvises, right?

Like, he'll have a shovel or like a statue or something.

What do you like about him?

He's on the back of his heels.

Right.

And,

you know, he just needs his

whip, his fedora.

I mean, is it a little cute that in the uh

River Phoenix sequence, it ends with like the sort of Indiana Jones type guy guy being like, All right, take my hat.

You lost today, kid.

You know, and you have to like it.

Is that that word?

Yeah, always stuck with me, man.

Is that a little too cute?

Am I just kind of sick of that stuff because now it's the backbone of all these Lego sequels?

It's like, get joy, though.

No, I enjoyed this movie.

Just like going, oh, but doesn't it?

It makes you think a little bit, I mean, about like, I always wanted to know where he got his jacket.

And, you know,

I will agree with you that it is the only moment in the sequence that butts up against being a step too cute for me, where I'm like, the guy doesn't have to hand him the hat.

I can be like, and then later he bought a hat because he thought it looked cool on that guy.

But Spielberg likes to put it on things.

But I also like that that sequence ends with like, here's this like thrilling adventure and he's like starting to develop his love for like, you know, this whole way of life and the like, you know, finding a different way to express.

his love and respect for history and these objects than his father who's more purely academic.

Although it's also funny to realize too, and I'm sure this is something that I have a blind spot to, I occasionally don't realize there's already internet dialogues about things, but he's a really terrible archaeologist.

Have we discussed this?

This was part of your text.

He's really, really, really bad at being an archaeologist.

What's your problem?

The Cross of Coronado ends with a ship exploding.

Like he goes to, he realizes, hey, we got to go through this library to get down to this crypt.

And he just takes a fucking metal thing and starts pounding the do smash.

Everything he ever touches in an archaeological sense is lost to time immediately because he explodes it in a ball of fire over and over.

There's also a couple times when he's kind of just like, oh, I found this ancient or whatever.

You know, he's like blowing on some.

And I'm like, aren't you supposed to kind of treat these things with everything?

Everything is just.

But you know what?

It's the 30s.

Maybe a lot of this refined, like, oh, no, no, no, put on your gloves, get your little brush out.

Maybe that came later.

I just feel like everyone in the academic field when they see henry jones jr's name get attached to a case file must just be like ah we're we're

everything we do will be will crumble to goddamn dust before we can even take a photograph of it because this asshole has to smash everything and make it explode your text when you put forth your choice of Last Crusade.

My favorite thing about Last Crusade is that Indiana Jones is the worst archaeologist of all time.

The Venice crypt scene is

we located one of the brothers, great the first Crusader knight.

But before anyone else knows about it, we climb

out of the sewage system and it's gone forever.

Your follow-up text: within seconds of finding the actual tombs and graves of real Templar knights, they are engulfed in firebombing.

He makes it rubbing, he

gets

what he needs, and then it explodes.

I mean, everything he finds is immediately destroyed.

And it's so funny to watch the movie with that in mind.

Yeah, he's bad at archaeology.

Oh, really bad.

Well, it's because he has Steven Spielberg like crafting inventive action sequences around him.

Okay.

He'd love to probably just be chill.

I just don't believe he'd ever get to a professor level at a university behaving this way.

The people are massing in his office, waiting for office hours.

I find that to be one of the biggest logical reaches of this entire film.

It is funny that it's like

we have the opening sequence and then we tie, you know, we jump forward in time and we sort of.

I just want to close the lip on that.

I just want to say, I like that that sequence, it's like he rushes home.

He's got it.

He thinks his dad's going to love it, right?

Connery, we don't even show an actor playing young Connery.

You hear the voice.

He's dismissive.

And then it's like cops show up.

Cops are in bed with these people.

They make him give it back.

We have six witnesses.

And he sees this fucking fat cat out the window.

And it's like system is raked.

Like he's in a microcosm.

He's got this excitement of feeling like.

I've done it.

I've won.

And I'm going to have my dad's respect.

And it's like, your dad doesn't give a shit.

And this fucking lifestyle is going to be a grind.

It's going to be an uphill battle the rest of your life against these fucking dudes with the nice suits and the money.

And then I just like that they're hardcuts.

Man Geo hard cuts to him on the ship in the rain.

And he's still trying to get this one object from this one guy.

It's what makes it feel not disconnected as a mini movie is it's like, oh, the reason we're seeing this now is because

this is about how much Indiana Jones can't get over shit.

But you know, in archaeology, if you go to a museum to display display something, they're going to say, like, okay, so where did you find it?

And he's going to look him in the eye and go, what?

I murdered the entire crew of shit.

That's the thing.

I murdered everyone on his shit.

He didn't mean to.

He just meant to get the cross, but there she goes.

Archaeology-wise, this is bad form in the field of archaeology.

I do.

I murdered a bunch of people and now I have this cross.

I do just like that Indy.

has this basically unseen adventure that we just see the final minutes of on the boat, him getting the cross back, right?

He goes back and he is finally like,

I'm gonna fucking teach my class.

I'm gonna do my office hours, right?

Like, I'm back.

No more like pending adventures.

Tide that thing all closed loop.

I'm gonna have these horny girls.

Yeah, take a number.

I'll see every single person.

It's fine.

You know, hey, Dental Milliot, how you doing?

High five.

Like, you know,

and gets a weird package, right?

And he's like, yeah, weird package.

But you know what?

No, he's at least, I, it doesn't feel forced to me that Indy is trying to be a college professor for a second.

He's so bad at it that there would be, he would honestly probably be, his name, his name and photo would be circulated in, in college archaeology departments worldwide of do not hire this.

His rate, my professor score would be indie.

He's hot.

Fantastic at loadicate, fantastic at locating artifacts.

Unfortunately, instantly destroys them every single time.

I agree with you that he thinks.

he's bad at it.

I can hang up the fucking hat and teach full time and I'm good.

And I closed the last like big narrative arc in my life, which was getting that fucking cross.

And now I'm here.

If he hadn't gotten the delivery from Donovan, he would have in two weeks started going crazy and being like, give me that fucking whip back.

But he's convincing himself he's ready to like move on.

And much like he couldn't fucking move on until he closes the loop on the cross thing, getting the Grail Diary and being like, right, fuck, that's my dad's shit.

Goes to see Walter Donovan.

Walter Ron's like, Grail, Grail, Grail.

He's like, No, right.

That's my dad's obsession.

Call him.

I did call him.

He's missing.

Okay.

There's this.

He, he doesn't really want to do this.

It's a little bit more the obligation of like, well, if my fucking dad is missing, right?

I guess I have to.

I think it's almost less about saving his dad than it is about impressing his dad.

Like he's like, if I show up, he's going to be like good shit, kid.

So, right, the next sequence is venice is the is the catacombs and the introduction of elsewhere sequence dr schneider

kazoo is there

yes that's true great sequence the rats

are the special effect that no one would ever bother with anymore yep like that would be cgi now spielberg gets 2 000 fucking wet rats and makes everyone like deal with them it looks amazing wait say more

2000 wet rats Now, has anyone ever attempted that at New York Fashion Week, Ben?

Not to force an ambition on you.

Yeah.

Damn.

But has anyone ever had 2,000 wet rats on a runway?

I don't know.

I think there is maybe some ASPCA issues there.

Yeah, and also some, you know, public health hypothesis.

Probably

because they are currently fighting against rats.

Right.

We don't want like...

But maybe if you got them all in one place.

Yeah.

To be dealt with.

Sure.

Can I say, old librarian who thinks his stamp is weirdly loud?

I think that is

so fun.

This is the quality gas that makes this my favorite of the movies where I'm like, that is such a gripping bit.

I think it's

reaction.

It's fun to

classic rule of three thingy of like, it's funny once, and by the time it's been like extended for a while, we're just like, I'm just like, I love the library.

But and the choice that it isn't like, oh, this guy's oblivious.

He's not hearing the sound because of the stamp, that it starts to become this little tiny mini story of this guy being like, fuck, am I incredible at stamping shit?

Am I the most powerful man alive?

Also, the type of proof that shows why casting directors deserve Oscars, because

you need an appropriately weird-looking guy to play a befuddled librarian.

And go on this little arc of like, he's starting to feel himself.

You know, like this guy needs to be able to really act.

He can't just pick a funny

guy.

That character grew and changed by the end of the day.

He did.

As much as he goes on a journey.

Now, help me out here.

They learn, okay,

we found the tomb.

Henry's being held at this castle.

Here's the route to the grail, the diary, all this stuff.

This is when Elsa's room has been ransacked, which we later learn she does.

Is she doing that just to get in Indy's bed and like kind of win his trust?

Or is there like a deeper conspiracy here that I don't?

I think it's she really wants the Grail diary.

right and if she trashes her room too he'll never suspect that she went and rooted around his room but i also think it's part of her playbook she she wants to seduce him or make him think that he is seducing her so that there is a guard down perhaps as well yeah i think it's all all part of the same pie the castle sequence somewhat underrated i would say in indiana i agree

hearing you say you're like sort of i don't want to put words in your mouth but like a little un underwhelmed, perhaps, compared to

Raiders' movie a lot.

But I'm like, it's really only the third act that whiffs.

Almost everything else is like a fun adventure.

You think the third act of this movie whiffs.

Only in the sense that like the Grail does, like, I love it.

I love it.

I love it.

I feel like you were the one who was kind of saying, like, there's stuff about the end that I don't buy the stakes themselves.

Every single set piece is so fucking good.

This is fucking great.

And they're like,

this is great.

Yeah.

My whole thing with this movie is that it is basically whatever.

Spielberg is like Barry Bonds of like a high school game in a list.

Right.

Like, where it's like, he can do this shit so good at this point.

He's done it.

He's, it almost feels like George Lucas is like, make my third indie movie.

He's like, bam, I just made it.

Fuck you.

I can do anything.

And he does always the same year, which is not as good, but he's like, not only can I make your third indie movie like that, I can make it and then immediately make another one.

I'll make it in two months, whatever.

Like five amazing set pieces.

Like, fuck you.

He's just becoming a machine at this point.

And so there's a,

yeah, like a slight, I, there's just something about this movie.

I, I'm always, every time I watch it, I'm, I'm like, this is so fun.

Everyone's having a good time.

Maybe it's just a little weightless to me.

I like the Connery stuff,

obviously, because it's great.

I like Connery.

Connery's reaction to the tank going over to the cliff adds like a full star to the movie for me.

And it's because I'm like, that's really just enough for me in terms of like, weight, emotional weight.

Otherwise, what is this movie about?

I don't know.

But that's a motorcycle with a sidecar.

No, they're really glimpses.

Rangers of the Lost Ark, I think, is so brilliant and scary, and like the shadow of the Nazis hanging over it in such this interesting way.

It's a better movie.

It's so cool.

And a deeper felt.

Temple of Doom is like massively flawed.

I think so, but it's, this is one of those series where, like, I don't remember.

Like, I saw them all when I was a kid.

They were never my movies.

Like, I was always a Star Wars kid more than like, I was an indie kid, I guess.

So I don't have like a deep, like, obsessive love of I wonder how often, because also I know, I know temple does not hold up, but Temple was when I was a kid, Temple was pretty beloved.

And I have

a feeling for people who grew up while these movies were coming out.

Being able to look at them in total afterwards is different.

I have a feeling that for people who grew up with them.

Whichever one you saw first is generally your favorite.

Yeah, I think that's a classic right for these kinds of things.

There is a

whiny, piss baby, angry nerd YouTuber that I hate watch, who I will not get into any more specifics of,

but is Indiana Jones is one of his main beats.

And it's one of those things where he's just like, by Last Crusade, they fucked it up.

It's Spielberg doing kiddie shit.

It's lost the stakes of like the adventure series.

There's some argument for

it's getting too emotional.

Like all the shit.

I don't like that.

Even with Star Wars,

my kid loved

D-Walks.

Yeah,

It's the thing of like the argument of these things are for families and kids is fine.

It's just annoying when then George Lucas is like every complaint directed to him.

He's like, it's moving for kids, move on.

You know, over here.

I'm like,

this guy, I'm like, you're the age where like you saw Raiders in theaters and it probably blew your minds.

And then you were a little older and you saw a temple and you were like, this shit's scary.

It's growing up with me.

And then by the time you see Last Crusade, you still fucking love Indiana Jones.

But for the first time, you're maybe a little bit older than the movie.

And he like throws it down a well and he talks about, he spends so much time talking about like how they fucked up the Indiana Jones franchise and how it's his most beloved character.

And I'm like, you like two out of the five movies.

At this point, you dislike more Indiana Jones than you like.

Like you just have to accept it.

Like you can just say, I love these two films.

But at a certain point, if you're fighting against that much of the franchise, you're denying what

you enjoy.

Right.

Why even care?

The capsule is great.

It's great.

The capsule is great.

It's the car.

His kid doesn't know they realize that they slept with the same girl.

But just Scooby-Doo revolving dogs.

That's crazy.

But like

Ford doing the Scottish accent.

You know, Ford having a little bit of, you know, like character fun.

And the screen shop fun.

But then also the guy calling it out.

If you're a Scottish lord, I'm a, what's it?

Blah, blah, blah.

Like it's fun.

Which also, much like Spielberg, it's like Ford in between these movies did some more grown-up shit.

You feel him being like, you know what, it would be fun to just punch some guys and do some silly voices.

I want to be Indiana Jones again.

Charlie Sheen is an icon of decadence.

I lit the fuse and my life turns into everything it wasn't supposed to be.

He's going the distance.

He was the highest paid TV star of all time.

When it started to change, it was quick.

He kept saying, no, no, no, I'm in the hospital now, but next week I'll be ready for the show.

Now, Charlie Shilberg.

He's going to tell you the truth.

How do I present this with class?

I think we're past that, Charlie.

We're past that, yeah.

Somebody call action.

Aka Charlie Sheen, only on Netflix, September 10th.

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Jumping ahead a little bit, but another, what I assume is a stoppered line that I think is incredibly good is when they're fighting about Indiana Jones's feeling of like indifference to him that he felt as a child, right?

And like his like refusal to engage after your mom left, all this sort of shit.

Talked in 20 years because of you.

And Connery, one of his defensive lines is, well, you moved out just as you were starting to get interesting.

This thing of like, it's a bit of a brutal line.

I have no interest in talking to children.

And the second you start to become an adult, you moved out.

And it's like, yeah, that's how it fucking works.

You didn't want to be a dad.

You didn't do the work.

There's also something to be said.

Like,

I think that there is truth to the kids' perspective of that, but I also think there is something quietly super fucking real about

you understand your dad more when you've been through some stuff and when you were a kid and you get old enough to understand, like, especially back then, historically,

like maybe a dad was gone all the time.

And that's the reason you had food and a house to sleep in.

And a lot of families need the dad back then,

dad clearly, he didn't deal with the loss of his wife very well.

No, and like, but that emotionally, like, I don't know.

And some of this obviously relates to conversations I had with my dad, but I'm like, like, I remember having a conversation with my dad once asked me, my dad once said to me,

I always liked calling you when we moved houses because you and I were really good about packing up a truck.

And I remember saying to him, yeah, I remember during one of those days, it was the first time I felt like I could let my guard down and really

like talk to you.

And seeing my dad had this heartbroken look on his face.

And he's like, wait, you were almost 30 at the time that you're talking about and i was like yeah

and he was like you didn't feel like you could let your guard down around me until you were 30 and it was heartbreaking but when i watched that moment of him being like you were just getting interesting i'm like i don't excuse any of it in henry jones senior or my father but i'm like

sometimes

like that's real that's real that's so real this is why also the eskimo brothers thing even if it comes out of like a horny i still need to be an alpha connery note and it's mostly played as a joke there's something about this movie in the second half forcing them to become contemporaries that's why it works right real because it's just like he's seeing things from a different vantage point because he and his dad are now doing the exact same in lockstep they're on the same adventure they're in the same action sequences they're after the same goal keeping each other alive like i'm nothing like you i spent my entire life trying to be that fucking guy named fedora on the train and it's like no, you're doing my shit in different clothes.

A little bit.

And

I think

Senior

comes to take his son more seriously because he watches him in action mode, which is something he doesn't do.

Right.

Like Senior doesn't do action mode.

He's watching his son actually be in action mode.

Lovely moment of Ford watching

Connery chase the birds away with his umbrella.

The birds is a really fascinating moment.

And being like, my dad's just some guy.

Like, I feel like I've heard you talk about a lot in different circumstances.

Your realization at some age as a nerd that your father knew the names of the members of the Fantastic Four.

And being like, my dad is like a serious grown-up who has a job and has no interest in my like childish bullshit.

And then being like, not only were you into these characters when you were my age, you still remember what their names are.

This is in your head.

You know, there's like that part of it of being being like, he's seeing kind of the little boy version of his dad in that moment.

I think the hat's just crucial, too.

I think, I think for the character, yeah, that Henry Jones Sr.

has such a silly hat.

His look is

being like, don't forget my hat in the same way that his son does, but his son has a cool hat.

I think what I'm realizing as we talk it out loud is, and some of this is Sean Connery's performance.

Some of this is in the script, but I'm, I, I go,

I will say, and David, I respect your opinions on film far more than my own, but I go, the dad son stuff in this movie, I think, actually

does make it significantly more than just it moves from set piece to set piece in a way that, but that doesn't start till halfway through.

Once he shows up in this movie,

but I like that swerve.

I mean, it's like if the second half of this movie were a flipped mirror image of the first half and the dad thing was not part of it, it would be like, yeah, this is just Spielberg showing off that he can do great sequences.

I do like that the movie has this kind of like sneaky turn into thematic weight.

And the weight is characterization, which is basically the thing that is avoided in the first two Indiana Jones movies.

There is characterization, but we're not really digging into the psychology of Indiana Jones.

He's a character defined by action.

And there's the sense of his relationships to these people, but it's like, I'm just fucking moving forward.

And his dad's the only person who can get him to stop and have to like reckon with shit.

And it's why I like starting with him as a little kid again, because you're just like, this guy isn't mythical.

He's a dude.

And like everything that's cool about him is like all of us, a direct result of who he was raised by, right?

For both good and bad.

It also recontextualizes every other Indiana Jones movie now with the thing of like, this guy's chasing his dad.

And after you watch this one, you know that when you re-watch the other ones.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's certainly, especially Raiders.

Temple of Doom is a strange movie to think about in any sense, but, you know, he's he's helping these kids in Temple, I guess.

There's this somewhat fatherly thing with him in Short Round.

You know, like,

I'm not saying that all of a sudden this turns into like a psychological breakdown of the characters that never got the credit that's due, but I do think this movie is more than set piece to set piece because of that exact stuff.

No, I think that's a good thing.

I think once Sean Connery shows up, it's yes.

I agree with what you're saying for the prism: of like Spielberg is just a few years away from leveling up to being able to tell really complicated, mature, adult psycho-emotional stories.

And like in that context, you're just like, aren't you ready to move on from this?

Even if this film has like emotional weight and something to say about like fathers and sons and whatever, it's still doing that in a very pop candy-coated way.

And like, aren't we ready to like level up to a certain degree?

But I think this is like the last time for me that he kind of has this right balance of doing this.

There's a moment to kill a mockingbird.

I believe it does not make the film, but where Atticus shoots this rabid dog.

And in the process, one of his glasses lenses breaks and then he like reaches down with his heel and just grinds out the glass so it's not sharp and nobody get cuts on it, gets cut on it.

He walks away.

And Jem is amazed.

And he's like, I can't believe my dad was the one that you guys all had take the shot.

And one of the neighbors is like, do you not know that your daddy is the best shot in the county?

And everyone's known that for fucking decades.

And it's, and the sheriff is specifically specifically a bad shot.

The sheriff.

And they're like, why do you want our stuffy lawyer dad to do this?

And he's like, fucking Mr.

God.

Did you not know your dad is a fucking bad?

And Indiana, like the Last Crusade is a movie-length exploration of the idea of like, hey,

all the shit you don't know about your dad.

might just fill in some of the emotional gaps that a whole generation of fathers ravaged their sons with.

And what you just said will basically always get me.

Like even in the worst executions of that, when I don't respect it intellectually, I'd be like, they are playing with like powerful materials there.

It's always going to stir a little something in me.

And like being able to do it pretty well in a movie that also delivers good fucking bits and like five of the best directed action sequences you've ever seen.

I'm just like, yeah, this is like a perfect movie movie for me.

Listen, Field of Dreams, them playing catch.

We were talking about right before this record.

Never not make me cry.

Yep.

And I couldn't give less of a shit about baseball.

And yet I watched that and I'm like, baseball is the most important thing that's ever existed.

You know, when they're throwing the ball around, I'm like, absolutely baseball.

Archie Moonlight Graham is the fisto of Field of Dreams.

Now, that is a good take that I have no objection to.

I think Archie Moonlight Graham is more important than Confisto.

What the fuck are you saying?

That's so mean.

Important is actually the most offensive word And I'm the bad boy of myself.

The whole problem with Kit Fisto is that Palpatine just,

you know.

The whole problem with Kit Fisto is that that's our novel.

That's a horrible way to start.

The only problem with Kit Fisto is that characters should have weaknesses and flaws and he doesn't.

But that's why I just hate.

I just.

I mean, I hate Revenge of the Sith.

I always will.

I won't be, you know, turned around by people being like, oh, it's about the fall of Rome and shit.

And I'm like, yeah, I know it is, but it's not a version of all.

David, I'm just going to give you some advice.

Don't go on blank check and say you hate an individual Star Wars movie because it could turn into a thing for you.

I have and will.

It turns into a thing for you.

But, like,

you know, Mace Windu just shows up.

He's like, I'll bring three of my best guys.

Yeah, the Jedi Wrecking Crew.

Exactly.

And Palpatine, who is one billion scroll to the end of this episode,

like this.

All right.

All right.

Well, then let's move on to the star.

Would you not watch a whole Archie Moonlight Graham prequel to Field of Dreams?

Sounds pretty cool.

And do you know that Archie Graham Moonlight can hold his breath underwater and he can smell fear?

And he's got to be getting home so Alicia doesn't think he's got himself a girlfriend.

The Zeppelin scene.

Great.

Anytime I see a Zeppelin, which is not that often in the movie.

Not a lot.

You are kind of like, it's too bad this didn't work out because it does kind of seem nice, right?

Where they're just like, it's just like a

big-ass restaurant, essentially.

What a nice thing to see.

but i just there's rumors we're coming to delivery service and that's like a reminder of like wait this is actually though uh technology that there's a reason why we don't utilize it anymore there's rumors they're bringing them back i think it's time i think it's time i think environmental impact for short flights let's go back to zeppelins are we running out of helium Isn't that a thing?

It's a great question.

Which is going to, I mean, just be fucking murder for the industry of doing funny voices.

I know.

We talk about this in next week's episode.

but I think they just don't go that fast, right?

Isn't that part of the problem with Zeppelins?

But great, let's slow down, let's enjoy ourselves.

Can we just turn off our phones and float in the sky?

We're all so addicted to our phones.

I say as I spin the Disney Emoji Blitz wheel on two different devices, there's a very

double gems.

I would say there is a very funny, consistent thing that I'm not nitpicking in Last Crusade, though, but it shows up in the Zeppelin scene very prominently: is a bunch of things that are so joyous,

funny, awesome moments where the aftermath of them just like the.

It's the clerk's bit of like, you think about how many contractors are going to be.

Well, no, like the pacing of the aftermath doesn't add up.

My point being like, oh, oh, they punch the Nazi, they throw him, he lands on the big pile of luggage.

No tickets.

Everyone takes out the tickets.

Fantastic, funny gag.

Very funny.

But the idea that the Zeppelin just then slowly floats away and no Nazis reactors.

Yeah,

Nazi land kind of violence.

It's a little, I mean, look.

There's a few moments of that in this movie.

Again, like

the boat explodes and then you're left to go like, okay, and I guess Indiana just grabs that little life.

The Zeppelin is tight.

Swims back to shore.

But they do eventually, of course.

Oh shit, we're turning around.

We're back to Berlin.

Yes, maybe it's a little silly like, I guess we should just use this plane that's right now.

I said that Spielberg never gets this balances right again, which of course is me realizing I stupidly am ignoring Jurassic Park, right?

Which is truly the last time he gets the balance right.

But that is a movie where to this point of what you're saying, I think he's starting to realize it here.

He's like, my understanding of like movie logic and spatial geography and what the audience sees and doesn't, what I'm like, like a fucking magician, I'm making them look here and not think about this.

He's starting to like fuck around

and be like, I can put together a sequence that doesn't actually make any sense and not make people realize that it doesn't make any sense.

You won't give up.

And Jurassic has a ton of turnover thinking, which is like very skillful

and one of these things too that it's like i re-watch it now by myself

and then you realize part of the pacing of that feeling weird is because that motherfucker knew the crowd would have been cheering yes That a theater full of people is laughing and clapping at them.

And if they're laughing, they're not going to think about the fact where it's like, well, wait a second, the Zeppelin is still only five feet above the sky.

They'd have 20 Nazi dudes jumping.

Doesn't matter.

Right.

Doesn't matter.

He was pacing it for the fucking applause break that he knew he got.

It's like hamburger had just performed.

The crowd is going wild.

This is what the tank thing is, too,

where

there, I guess, there will come a point, I guess, in any, you know, where these action movies, that these, those kinds of sequences are pre-vis so well that it almost feels too easy, right?

Like, oh, he ducks just when he, you know, like, right, but that's.

But the tank sequence, you're just kind of like, I gotta just give it up.

Like, you know, like angry goes on.

And, you know, like, hey.

The thing that still makes Spielberg better at this than anyone else who has ever lived is the exact thing that the sort of like obsessive pre-visiting before the script is done actually fights against, which is just like, what are the character moments?

What are the moments in this that are going to pop as like a laugh?

And it's not because it's a dumb one-off joke.

It's something that surprises you where someone does something differently than you expect.

It reveals something different about themselves.

These sequences have their own internal like arcs and peaks and valleys.

Like they're symphonic.

And he knows, he knows.

Like,

I got to hold this shot for 30 seconds because if I do something right now, the audience is going to be riding such a high from the last thing, they won't be able to process this.

His mastery is just insane at this point.

I had a very weird thought that ties into this, which I think you guys will enjoy, which is

I've been to Hollywood Studios many times.

You're saying the Disney park?

The Disney park with the Indiana Jones.

The Indiana Jones stunt spectacular.

Which is a great show.

It's a great little show, but it does this funny thing.

Probably my favorite play.

Edward Alby's Indiana Jones stunt spectacular.

Stopper quietly wrote all the dialogue in Last Crusade, and Alby quietly wrote all the dialogue in the Indiana Jones stunt spectacular.

But they do that funny thing, which when I was a kid, I loved, which is like they presuppose that you're sitting in these bleachers watching the actual filming of

an action sequence in Indiana Jones.

And then I get old and I wind up being lucky enough to be an actor who has been on some film sets, largely cut out of films as R dash R slash Blankies has has danced on.

But cut out of some big ass movies.

But cut out of some huge movies.

Also proud of my career.

Anyway, and have remained in the culture.

I've created some great films.

Thank you so much.

Making a joke, referencing my past chic canery on your show.

By the way, same thing with me.

My biggest credits on paper of the biggest movies I've been in are all the ones I've been cut out of.

It's

how it fucking goes.

Also a sign of a quality career.

It's fine.

We're workers.

We're workers.

We're workers.

But you go to it as an actor to the stunt show, and you're like, ah, that's not how movies really work.

And it's silly.

They're pretending this is a movie.

And then you re-watch an Indiana Jones movie and you're like, I bet Steven Spielberg was running this set way closer to the actual tender and tone of the Indiana Jones stunt spectacular at Hollywood Studios than any other movie.

He does have

he actually runs a set that cleanly, especially again, people, there are just no complaints from this.

Now, Raiders, that was hard.

Everyone gets dysentery.

It's crazy.

Shigo.

Shaw's was hard.

By now, it's kind of just like, nah, he's just

fucking crazy amounts of trucks and scaffolding and cranes and shit and things flipping up and people diving off of buildings and doing flips.

Like all that shit that they show at the stunt spectacular.

I'm like, I am willing to buy into the Kfabe that a Steven Spielberg set is actually

as fun and crazy as that stunt spectacular.

Kind of all you hear from people who work on his movies.

I do think, we mentioned it already, but I do think, you know, Connery's reaction to the tank going over, the way he just like simply and quickly plays

the entire afternoon.

It's good action, though, right?

The brothers of the cruiser sword have come back.

There's people fighting on the tank and on top of the tanks.

The

rescued from the tank treads.

Indy holding his dad's leg with the whip as his dad bounced on the tank.

He's literally riding shotgun in this entire action sequence, and he's like, yawn, who cares?

The crazy tank guy.

You mentioned Holdren's.

You also mentioned before, like, the Indiana Jones habit of just like, this guy is the blank, the tank pilot with that with the crazy leather hat and goggles.

Like, it's got, it's so fun.

He just didn't think his son was going to die.

And obviously, he doesn't die, but like, Connery has that, just that moment of like, and he convinces us.

He convinces us.

Right.

It's actually, fuck, I actually didn't get to tell him like all these things I meant to tell him.

Here's another thing that quietly belies.

Him

being so shocked at the idea that Indiana Jones died does quietly speak to a level of respect he has for what he's saying.

That he would never have said out loud.

Right.

Because he's like, I know my son goes off in all these stupid fucking adventures and he's going through like pitfalls and traps and shit.

I never worry he's going to die.

Right.

I know that's why I've been putting off the five minutes.

I'm great at being Indiana Jones.

I hear he's off in some fucking Peruvian, like booby-trapped, you know, temple.

I don't think I should have called him and said, hey, I love you before he goes off.

So that all happens.

Now to me, the emotional arcs of this movie are pretty much resolved.

And it's time for a wonderful, like, LucasArts video game point-and-click adventure, like

sequence, which is the Grail.

And my counterpoint to that, the puzzles of the Grail and then the emotional puzzle of the night, you you know, my counterpoint to that, which is what I said earlier, which is him having to do it alone

and revealing how much he has ingested of what his father's, of his father's work, does add a new wrinkle onto the emotional closure.

I agree with you that it's like they've gotten to the place where they can admit to each other that they love each other.

There is still this one added step of like, I'm more like my dad than I realized.

Every, all of his life's work is in my bones.

And every kid,

and I felt this with my dad.

Spielberg clearly felt it with his, just that feeling of like, the sting of like, why didn't my dad ever slow down and have that five-minute conversation with me is also coupled with why does every son assume that his father hasn't actually thought hard about who he is and why he's behaving and how it relates to his son?

And you're like, ooh.

And then to immediately follow it up with like, he just

fought a tank by hand, saved you in the process, fell off a fucking cliff.

And it's like you have the one moment of emotion that you share, and then he collapses from exhaustion.

And you go, no, get the fuck up.

We got to get back to work.

We're almost at the end.

It's like, God damn.

And it's right back into the other.

Now we understand each other.

It's like the dad has to go through his arc of like, fuck.

What would my regrets have been if that was the last time I ever saw you?

Now Indian Jones is on the flip side of that, which is like his dad's been fucking shot.

And the stakes of this now, like fucking Tomb Raider level, he has to go through is if I fuck this up and I don't do it in time, my dad's dead.

And we're now at the stage of life where the son takes care of the father.

Correct.

Thank you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Now the son has to move forward.

You are never, ever, ever, ever concerned that he's not going to, he's going to die.

As an audience member, no, but those are the stakes for Indiana Jones, the character.

That's why he still has unresolved shit.

It's fine.

You know he's going to do it.

He has to trust his dad.

He has to trust his dad.

Take the leap of faith and all that, which

is so much.

I think all that stuff is great.

The, you know, the puzzle solving stuff is so cool.

The, the, the floor with the Jehovah, the, the leap of faith is the coolest thing.

Hence, the misspelling.

Uh, what's oh, just the right

thing.

But the dodging the blades.

Then he gets to the grail.

Now, let's discuss this sequence.

It's a, it's a fountain.

Or whatever, a pool, a pool of water.

The holy water thing you see at the front.

Every church.

It's a knight in knightly armor, chain mail.

It's old ass dude.

This motherfucker

has been there for 700 years.

No pieces.

Not even across the world.

No magazine.

This guy can't do Wordle every day.

I have the same thought.

700 fucking years.

He's been sitting around and these assholes ruining.

He went through the text.

If he had Wordle, how many times would he have gone through like all of the words?

There's a limited amount of Wordle words.

Not to mention, this guy's getting like queen bee every day.

700 years.

He's getting spanogram and strands.

Eating whatever they can eat.

He's fucking probably jerking off relentlessly.

He doesn't have fucking top roms.

Do you think he jerks off?

This guy.

Do you think he jerks off?

Wait, here's my question.

He's a religious guy.

Every day he picks a new cup to jerk off to because, like, that's the only thing he can look at.

This fucking guy for seven.

They say it's 700 years of silence sitting there.

Guys, I'm sorry.

Breaking news.

Yeah.

I was just sent two texts from my father.

This is breaking news.

Do you know what I'm about to say?

He's going to tell you he loves you for the first time.

This is big.

From Peter Newman.

Deadline link.

Draft day feature to be adapted for TV.

I did, I did.

I did just

with a basketball twist.

And my dad says, time to bring back Rick the internet.

I mean, get him in there.

Is

you didn't tell me this fucking news.

It just noticed it.

Can't trust this guy.

Is Rick Hall grown up?

These are the questions I hope there.

Is it,

you know, is this like

the fucking Suits LA?

Where it's like, oh, it's Suits LA.

Does it have any of the guys from Suits?

They're like, no, it's just like a legal show set in L.A.

We're just calling it Suits.

Is Costner involved?

You know, like, do we have, you know,

let me build one fucking legacy character.

That's what I'm saying.

I'm sorry I'd say this, but guys, we're at the Grail Knights scene and we need to focus.

This is what I wanted to say.

I thought the thing I have been promising to recite back to you was in text.

Then I looked, the text exchange was the he's a bad archaeologist.

The thing you said was said in person, I believe, at the Gether 10th anniversary show.

At Union show.

The reunion show, which was such a wonderful night.

You said this to me backstage where I said, like, hey, and we'll do Last Crusade in like a couple months.

10th anniversary.

15.

15.

You're right.

This show is 10.

That's 15.

So excuse me while I paraphrase this.

Fucking Grail Knight.

But you said to me something to the effect of, I think one of the funniest bits of all time

is this guy being in this fucking cave for like 700 years with nothing and Indiana Jones showing up and immediately fucking up his entire

just like he fucked up the catacomb under Venice.

He fucked up the cross of cord.

So personal for this guy.

Fucking guy has for 700 years has been like, where's the next night that's going to come take over?

Indiana Jones comes.

He doesn't even allow the guy to finish explaining.

Hey, man, finally, you don't look like a knight.

Indiana Jones straight up cuts him off and is like, eh, not my thing, man.

That's not really how this method.

And then before he can finish his sentence, the Nazis come, pick the wrong cup.

That guy turns fucking a Betelgeuse guy right there.

It's weirdly scary.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Then Elsa is all fucked up.

She drops the thing because she's just straight up.

Can't even listen for 10 fucking her ADHD.

He's like, just don't take it past the thing.

She takes it past the thing.

We got the earthquakes.

And then I think the combination, one of the saddest and also funniest moments in maybe all of cinematic history is that guy gives a sad little wave.

He's been waiting 700 years and two minutes later,

this asshole Indiana Jones find it.

This movie movie has three beats.

The cross of Coronado, he makes everything explode.

The fucking Templar Knight's grave, he makes it explode.

He finally finds the Holy Grail.

He fucks that up too.

In your words, maybe the funniest bit of all time.

That little wave that Knight gives is so sad.

Okay, but what is happening to that knight?

Do you think?

He wants, he's been

drinking for death.

Well, no, of course, I know, but I'm saying, like,

because of of all the stuff that I've got.

He's drank death for like 694 years.

We are to assume that he has drank from the correct cup and he gets to live.

Centuries earlier and he gets to live forever.

And that's the curse.

He's over.

And he can finally get the sweet release of a well-earned death.

Move on.

Here's my question.

Indy comes in.

All right.

And let's just go through what happens.

Indy comes in.

Yeah.

Right.

He's kind of like, I don't know, man.

I kind of just need to save my dad.

Nazis come in.

This is a moment I just think we have to touch on.

The Knights like, okay, well, choose a fucking cup.

That's careful.

Single manager, the draft day, Link.

Elsa is like, let me choose.

Julian Glover is like, yeah, sounds good.

She does it on purpose, right?

I assume what she's doing is in on purpose.

They make eye control.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So people are

throwing it out.

How fucking dumb is Julian Glover that he's like, yeah, you know what?

Actually, you pick.

And she's like, literally just goes like, this one.

Like, she doesn't even walk the length of the cups, she just kind of grabs one.

This is my point, though.

It's like he's he is just some dumb door.

No, no, she could have walked over to that old ass,

grab his nuts, and twisted them, and been like, Tell me which one.

Ask a couple questions, just take a curse.

Tell me which one's weird, old man.

Instead, he's like, Oh, it looks great, it's cold.

Kruger syndrome, this guy thinks he knows everything.

We're blowing past the part where Indiana Jones is like, Who are you?

And he's like, I'm one of three brothers.

Test me.

And Indiana Jones straight up is like, Oh, so you're 700 years old.

anyway man i'm kind of not into this

this is not really my scene i love this movie so much but the end is like indie has the it's like a game to save my death this act this dead piece sort of is like playing mousetrap it's everything is like now this now that to be fair spielberg said when lucas initially pitched in the holy grail spielberg was like is there anything fun you can do with the ending of the holy grail like is there enough is there like a special effects thing you can do like what's the he was a little concerned like is it a little boring at the end?

I think that this ending is so iconic and well regarded.

They figured it out.

And obviously, the special effects thing they figured out was the rapid aging is cool, right?

Like, that we'll do that.

But everything that's, it's just like the only time pressure is on Indy, which is, I want to save my dad.

There's no time pressure on Julian Glover.

He could just like really kind of be like, I'm going to take a look at every single.

He could just go, save your dad.

So I know which one is the right that's an option for him there's a lot of options for him anyway some would actually say that's why he shot the dad but he's just like glug glug glug beetle juice i love it i mean i love it i love him turning into beetle juice let's remember his whole thing was he was the most pure one so his two brothers he was like they failed goodbye my brothers we will never see each other again survival of the fittest he is the one he assumes i'm the first link in a chain where other knights will achieve this take over and it will last for eternity.

And instead, the first guy who shows up fucks it all up and he just goes, I guess I could have been fucking and eating cheeseburgers for the past fucking 700 years because the first asshole to come take over fucked it up.

Here's a fun thing to consider.

This Devon Jones sucks as an archaeologist.

This guy doesn't even know that movies exist.

This dude has no idea.

He amatto that like printed words

invented the printing words.

Cheeseburger's cruisical on Broadway.

Well, God, and he would have loved that.

Dude, he doesn't know about Nintendo.

No, he actually does.

Weirdly, there's a deleted team where it's like, that's the one thing they love.

I love Nintendo.

Yes.

Jesus has permitted Nintendo.

He doesn't agree with the owner.

But you know, this asshole's like, he only had Duck Hunt.

It wasn't even the double cartridge of Mario Brothers.

Oh, he just had the Duck Hunt.

His whole life was playing Duck Hunt for Samuel.

Samantha with the controller.

So, okay, so Julian Glover dies.

Julian Glover dying is great.

Indy's like, Indy, even Indy is a little briskly like, well, I think it's this shitty one.

Yeah.

So smart carpenter's cup.

But again, he doesn't even like, I just love him to do one full scan.

Just one full scan.

Hearing you guys say Spielberg was never particularly interested in the Grail Lord.

This, I will say, like, and again, he's you've given him a million props about his mastery.

Like, this one does feel like a guy who doesn't give a fuck about this has made it the

like the ultimate goal of the movie.

And you can sort of feel that he doesn't totally give a fuck about the grail itself.

Um, he's done.

Cup is wrapping up.

Cup is proven good.

Okay.

Takes it to Connery, saves Connery.

That problem is solved.

Now it's kind of like, okay, now what do we do?

Right.

And of course, Elsa takes it across the Great Seal, which is not Indy's fault.

You're disparaging his, you know, he doesn't cause that chaos.

That is Elsa's.

Everywhere he goes, in an archaeological sense, though, the place explodes or collapses.

Um, not three

crack opens in the earth, yes.

Uh, Elsa falls down it.

You know, she's Indy tries to rescue her, she's too tempted by the cup, she falls to her death.

Indy resists the temptation of the cup, gets out,

instead goes with his dad.

The cup, the Grail cup, falls into the curved, into the abyss, right?

Yeah, onto that little ledge.

No, but like, then, yeah, that this is my question.

They all leave.

Grail Knight, as we know, goes like, uh, bye.

Right?

The whole thing's falling down.

Is Grail Knight still going to live

and just kind of be stuck there still?

Grail Knight.

Is he going to go get the cup back?

Or is the cup gone and Grail Knight's about?

Grail Knight has the craziest choice to make of anyone in the history of Earth, which is like, do I just

no one else, I guess, cares about this half as much as I thought.

Yeah.

So I guess now do I stay here and live?

That's my, like, is the grail

steal and die.

Well, there's another option that ties into this, which is that there's another logic, which is

so Grail Night.

I, Indiana Jones, this is not my thing, but

my father has now drank from the cup and conceivably he spent his whole life chasing this.

And it's actually my father that should be doing this.

And my father has sort of lived in absentia in a way that I've always resented.

But if it was for the purpose of this, maybe this was the higher purpose.

He could stay.

And we just watched him drink from the holy grail.

And they poured it on his, on his tongue.

Henry Jones Sr.

also is like, nah, I got illumination out of it.

I got everything I wanted.

Peace, Grail Knight.

I'm not even going to ask you a question.

Much like, yeah, he's no.

Yeah, just no further input required.

But

much like in Rage of the Lost Ark, it's like, oh, what's in the ark?

And it's like, I don't know, weird ghost.

Let's get out of here.

You know, like, and this one, it's like, oh, what was the mystery of the grail?

It's like, I don't fucking know.

It fell into a pit.

Let's go.

Arguably, Henry Jones Sr.

could have stayed there, let the Grail Knight have the sweet release of death.

Marcus Brody could have been sent to any 99 cent store to get one of those little arm extender grabber things.

A grabbing stick.

They could have gone, got one of them grabbers, gotten the grail back, and Henry Jones Sr.

could have taken his

worst.

He dedicated his entire life to this.

To finding it.

But like the whole thing with the Holy Grail is right, you get there and you're like, hell yeah.

And it's like a couple of attached, you know, a couple of provisos here one you can't leave two uh

no one's here so it sucks what do you think the grail knight like when they were all leaving he would have been like no guys no wait one of you has to take over and they'd be like

nah it just asks the question i mean they obviously like we got tick tock and shit now dude like we gotta go man they fixed connery's uh bullet wounds right but it's like by feeding him the water is he now does he live forever or since no because in crystal skull he's like got the picture on his desk this is for this question.

No, you don't live forever just by drinking from the grail once.

Stay there.

You got it out of sight.

Stay there.

Drinking from it.

And it's not just you drink it once.

Hooray.

So that's the kind of

poisoned chalice thing of like, yay, I can live forever.

Yeah, you can live forever in this room.

Do you like cups?

No.

Living a grail knight's life.

Yeah, this room has cups.

It's not life at all.

It's cup room.

Do you think anything but cups?

Does he jerk off into every cup?

Yes.

Yes.

Okay.

Guys, that's a little sacrilegious.

To your point.

Do you think that's a little sacrilegious actually?

You're going to jerk up into the Holy Grail.

It's just a wee bit sacrilege.

To your point about it feeling like Spielberg doesn't really give a shit about the Grail.

Do you think they were all pissed that they had already blown knowledge was the real treasure?

That it feels like this movie is building to some

line.

Illumination always struck me as a very weird line, both in that it's a little soft and there's so many tie-ins that have like holy blood, holy grail has been written.

Da Vinci code isn't out yet, but like this idea that the holy grail ties into the illuminati is out there.

And it feels like illumination is a weird.

What did you get out of it?

That's the illumination.

They're backed into a corner of like, how do we not double beat the ending of the last one?

But it's like the end, that line doesn't make a ton of sense in Temple of Doom versus what's gone on in that movie.

Whereas in this, it's like what you want him or Connery to say is something like, No, the grail doesn't matter.

It's like this.

It's what we know and it's what we care about and the friends we made along the way.

There's a bit Like 700-year-old man there that they just ignore dealing with.

Either way, though, just to be clear, this is all nitpicky, fun things at the end.

This movie rules.

And the Grand Light's one of the greatest characters of all time.

Beyond what we're all saying, it's a fun little mini movie.

Like, and it really does feel like a point-and-click adventure to me.

This sort of like

how old

do you think the Grail Knight was when his dick could no longer get arched?

When did he stop jerking off in the cups?

Like, when was that even off the table?

Like, does, well, does drinking from the grail

make your dick situation?

Well, I also, my favorite thing is.

This is the original Bluetooth beat me to it.

But my Bluetooth, my thing is also, he's in his armor.

He could have taken it off, right?

But he's in his armor.

He like walks up to Indy and Indy's like, what?

And like, he falls over.

Indy doesn't even really push him.

And he's like, anyway, you beat me.

So like, you know, like he's so eagerly like, oh, like, yeah, that counts as single combat BTW and I want to go.

What do you think the ground knight wants?

Like, he wants to sprint out there and like get one or two last things in before he crumbles into dust.

He's like, thank you.

You're taking over.

Here's my sports.

That's a good question.

The second he like crosses the seal, is it like, hey, by the way, dude, you have like 40 minutes left.

Your body's going to be three days to just go party.

Yeah.

Does he end up having like a sentible woman weekend?

Does he want to go do Molly?

You know, he writes a limo.

I think not because of the rules, just because it's like, you are 700 years.

Yeah.

Maybe not.

Maybe he gets a few days.

I don't think the same thing happens to him that happens.

No, no, no.

You don't know.

Beers is being like punished for his folly.

Like that's like a...

Viers gets turned into like tales from the crypt.

He gets turned into crypts.

My favorite feral, and I never forgot the sense of memory.

The hair growing is great, obviously, like as the first.

And then you cut to him.

Her freaking out rocks.

Yeah.

Because she literally wanted this to happen, and nonetheless, is her what the hell.

My favorite thing is her Nazi outfit.

Her Nazi outfit is smoking hot.

She looks really good.

Yeah, I have less of a take on this than you've got.

Did you see RRR?

Chris keeps steering us first.

Chris, did you see RRR?

RRR,

the big

Hollywood epic of a couple of years ago.

If it was, if it came out since Cal was born, I almost definitely.

Okay.

She is in that playing basically the older version of this character, right?

Like horrible colonialist woman.

I like to think with Grail Knight that after this all goes down, he grabs a bottle of champagne that he's been holding on to.

And then, like, a streamer comes down that says, happy retirement and balloons fall down from the ceiling.

Gets a watch.

He gets a bunch of

novelty greeting cards over the hill, too old to count.

Exactly.

He just sadly takes a swig out of the bottle.

Yeah.

And that's that.

They get him a gold watch.

and he's off.

He moves into the margarita villain intentional housing community.

Yeah.

So

is

everything about Indiana Jones better if this movie ends with that sequence?

They leave, get on the horses, ride into the sunset, Spielberg just absolutely, again, just kind of being like, we just do that.

Best shot, cool shot.

And then that's it.

And by the way, what I love about it,

it goes on.

Yeah, I think so.

It goes on for so long.

It's one of those things as they're riding off into the sunset and the silhouettes is so beautiful.

You're like, oh, I'm like conditioned from movies of like, at some point, this will fade to black as the credits play.

The shot goes on for like six minutes.

It's a real kind of thing.

You see them get so tiny.

Yeah, it is.

I will say, like, I don't, not to bring it back to something divisive, but it's because these are this sort of like old school serial style.

pulpy adventure.

It's very, very easy to ignore the ones you don't like as much.

I love it.

Whereas that's why I think Star Wars, which obviously is connected, has this lore and this mythology and this relief.

But that would only be true if they had continued to make an indie every sort of like five to six years instead of like, now we wait 17 years or whatever, or 19 years, however long, you know, Crystal Skull comes out.

The weight of expectation is far too large.

It has to be about

legacy guys.

Crystal Skull and Dial of Destiny are like, how do we make a movie that responds to the weight of expectations of Indiana Jones' back and dealing with the advanced age and what is a proper ending.

There's some moment where in the mid-90s, Spielberg should have either just been like, fine, I'll make a fourth one.

Like we should just keep doing this or

done what he did with Jurassic Park where he's like, I did three.

I, you know, I did plenty.

Like someone else can do them.

But there's the thing we're not acknowledging here, which is that like Ford just always wanted to play the character again.

Like Ford wouldn't drop it.

And he wouldn't drop it.

He wouldn't visit the canyon on how to get it.

Like, please, please, please, guys.

Yeah, but the problem is Lucas gets bogged down in starting with the prequels.

Spielberg gets bogged down in being like a studio mogul who makes Schindler's list.

And Oscar went to the street.

I would still argue like one of the heartbreaking things about Star Wars is the misses.

Well, with Star Wars, it's a woven together saga.

But I think

and because of that, like my son's going to grow up with a Star Wars where the misses do take away some of the magic that I got to grow up with.

I do not think that Indiana Jones's Mrs.

take away the magic of Raiders or Last Crusade.

No, I think the two sequels being so far away does mean you can kind of keep it hermetic.

Even Temple, even Temple's flaws.

Right, sure.

I could sit down.

Raiders is Crusade rather.

And some of this, obviously, I have such clear,

you know, personal memories of being in the theater with my dad.

But

has there ever been a time?

where Last Crusade or Raiders of the Lost Dark is on cable and you don't stop and watch for at at least five or six minutes.

No, like it's one of those.

Yeah.

It's always in forever.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And nothing can ding that.

And I think it is because, like,

you know, they, they, the, the guys who wrote the Pirates of the Caribbean movies talk about when that first movie was such a surprise success and they were like, Disney wants a trilogy.

The first question they asked themselves was, are we Star Wars or Indiana Jones?

And I think a lot of franchises these days make the mistake of being like, we have to be Star Wars.

We have to try to weave an intentional epic, a narrative that feels like it was planned from the beginning, all these things.

And there's like a real benefit to being like, Indiana Jones, make it up as you go along.

Just have fun.

Play around, you know?

And I think that does help its legacy where you're just like, there's nothing any amount of other Indiana Jones shit can do that will ever damage the earlier films.

Like you're like, it probably would have been better if they never made a fourth or fifth movie, but I also don't think they really take away from anything.

Whereas let's talk about stars, but there's shit in Rise of Skywalker.

I'm like, it leads up to that.

That does sort of color other shit for me.

You know, as much as the movies like themselves are objects that can't be damaged, there's these moments that do get, like, you watch Andor and you sit there and you're like, oh, the way that they are looking back at the original movie.

And this series actually shows you like, no, this had, this world had turned into a fascist dystopian nightmare.

And then you think about how Rogue One leads into it and you go like, man, people had gotten to the point where they're like killing their own allies for making noise to make sure they don't get killed.

And that's so grim and it's so dark.

And then you think about the foolishness of a teenage kid going, oh, the Death Star,

it's not much worse than shooting out a womp rat back home.

And you're like, you needed a kid that naive to be able to pull this off.

And in a hopeless world, everyone must and or does such a good job of getting it back, the grimness of the audacity of even having hope.

And some of those attempts at Star Wars do get it back, which is why Last Jedi, making Luke Cynical is an absolute betrayal.

All right, I don't want to say that.

David, how'd this movie do at the box office?

So, May Memorial Day, 1989.

It's the, like we said, the

to be clear, George Lucas, that was his entire plan.

Yes, doing

a bunch of handshakes.

I had to.

I wanted to avoid it completely.

But you set it up.

All cynicism curdles.

You had to do it.

You had to say it.

No idealism lasts.

Even Tintin and the Picaros, the final completed Tintin novel, right?

The graphic novel.

I don't love that you pointed at my hairline without Tintin.

Specifically, the Hair Justin.

Tintin, not even at you.

You know, Tintin is always a fairly idealistic person, right?

And it's only and literally in pretty much in the last few books, you're starting to see like a bit, the slightest edge with him, but it's only Tintin and the Pikaros, which is the final book Hair J completed before he died.

Where Tintin suddenly is not wearing his plus fours, the pants he used to wear.

He's wearing longer pants.

Yeah, he's wearing like sort of flared pants.

I love you making direct eye contact and screwing.

I want you to hear about Tintin.

This is you giving, handing me my ass after years of me tormenting me.

Right.

And Tintin the Picros is about they go to this sort of fictional Latin American country that's been in the books before,

and their friend, General Alcazar, who they've had adventures with before,

he's on the outs.

He's become this kind of guerrilla fighter.

They help him take over

and kick out the sort of the mean general who's in charge, right?

But

the book begins with them landing like the plane and you sort of see the city and there's like a cop spinning a, you know,

what do you, a bat, you know, whatever.

Billy Club.

Billy Club.

Right.

And then in the end of the book, when they're leaving, you see the same cop.

He's just got a different uniform on.

And there's sort of Hergé's cynicism abounds a little bit.

And Tintin is more cynical of just like, we're not.

We're not really doing good here.

You know what I mean?

Creator cynicism or the creator.

But you see it in Tintin for the first time starting to bleed in.

Yes, and it's so fascinating to me.

I think I get the point you're making.

Anyway, what you're saying is that General Alcazar is the fisto of Tintin.

I mean, I General Alcazar is a character I truly adore.

So sure.

Yes,

I'll go with that.

But also to just bring this all together, right?

Like, I love the Tintin movie.

You love the Tintin movie.

Spielberg made his Tintin movie.

He did, yeah.

That is.

That's more classic Tintin of like, he's the, he's the sweet kid who, you know.

But also in direct relation to this movie, I'm like, that's just Spielberg having fun.

That movie is not about anything.

Not really.

It's about less than the books are.

Yeah.

No.

It is like

filmmaking shit and him being like, look at what I can do with new technology.

And I think you put that next to Last Crusade, and Last Crusade's got a little more on its mind than the Tintin movie as a text.

Yeah.

Last Crusade is.

Quite a bit more, I should say.

Not even a little more.

Yeah.

I just think at this point, Spielberg has more depth.

He does.

Oh, I just wanted to say, Wet Chonker,

the actor's name is J.J.

Hardy.

There we go.

Yeah.

Read up.

Of course, that's read up at Jack's name.

Yeah.

So it opens number one, Griffin, $37 million.

More extra

movie for the four-day.

Can you now please get me the name, individual names of all 2,000 wet mice?

You're on about that.

Number two at the box office, Griffin, is a comedy from like a duo who did a lot of movies together, but I think this is seen as maybe their worst.

I think it's also their last.

Is it another you?

No.

What's that?

Is it a prior and wild?

Okay, okay.

It is prior and wild.

Right.

Another you is their true last.

It's their second one.

So this one is See No Evil, Hear No Evil.

I feel like a movie Ben likes or you would watch a lot as a child.

Obsessed.

That was weirdly this movie that I feel like I caught on cable TV.

enough times that then I ended up having it on VHS.

I brought comedy watch it a bit.

With the premise of what if one guy was blind and one guy was dead.

And they get involved in like a murder

crime, whatever, right?

Right, yeah.

But it's not, I haven't seen it.

It's not well regarded, right?

The scene is a bad movie.

Well, because a lot of the comedy is based around their disabilities.

Sure.

Yeah.

Which the actors, of course, do not have.

Right.

Another you is the one, though, that is like truly dead.

That's 1991.

I mean, and Prior.

Prior must be really real.

Yeah, he's not in good shape.

Struggling.

Yeah.

Number three, the box office, a film we mentioned on this episode several times, times,

inspirational or

heartwarming drama.

Field of dreams.

Field of dreams.

Oh, wow.

Is doing great at the box office, kind of like a little engine that could type movie and will sort of sleepwalk its way to a surprise.

Best picture nomination.

Correct.

Number four, at the box office.

Geth, are you just leaving, Geth?

I legitimately am about to miss my son's school.

Yeah, yeah, you gotta go.

Leave.

So I gotta give you this.

What's that?

I have long promised to send something for Cal, your son.

Oh, that's so nice.

And you did send it.

You sent a Kit Fisto Onesie when he was back.

I did.

A couple times I've asked for your address to send it, but now I have it.

I'm so sorry to have to run, but I'm not.

I'm shit about trying to keep the train on time.

And now, like, Keth has a heart out.

I'm having fun.

You guys are having fun.

I'm crazy idiots.

You want me to open this on mic?

I think so.

A gift for my son?

I think so.

It's also good to remind your viewers that I'm not a monster.

I do have a life.

You do.

And you're a dear friend.

You really have to stop looking at Reddit, Chris.

Like 99% of people do not think you're a monster.

I've also met so many blank check fans.

Like, I'll go on the road and they come to stand-up shows of mine and they're lovely.

Yes.

In person.

Great to hear.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

There are two items in here.

Oh, my goodness.

And these are for your son.

We've got a Star Wars

battle, Jedi versus Darth Sidious.

This is specifically a box set of the Jedi Wrecking Crew.

It is your favorite moment.

It is the three guys showing up to fight Sidious.

This is really the other item.

Amazing.

Which I couldn't believe existed.

Dude, a Kit Fisto Transformer?

It is a robot Kit Fisto that transforms into Kit Fisto Starfighter.

That's so fucking sick.

It just feels like your son's at Star Wars age now.

It's time to Star Wars age and Transformers age.

I think here we go.

He's Delta 7 Asperite class

I'm truly touched thank you you're welcome

thanks for doing the app anything to plug you're doing your new show at UCB

that show at UCB hosted by Chris Gethard it's selling out months in advance I'm not sure why but I'm very flattered live in New York but also live stream tickets available tickets first yeah it's the last Wednesday of every month beautiful

still going strong it's a good look at humanity one human at a time thanks everybody we love to get we'll drop links in the episode description for all that and get this running with a box full of kit fisto toys send helly and your son might love

um thank you guys sorry no no no did we finish the five number

four at the box office

cult movie

not really a big hit at the time people forget i mean it was a whatever okay it was a reasonable hit

um but has become quite a cult movie has become quite a cult movie

action action i guess it was recently remade.

It was recently remade.

Yeah, it's kind of like an action drama.

How to describe it?

Wikipedia describes it as an action film.

What studio distributed the picture?

Oh, United Artists.

No, I don't know.

It's a silver film, Joel Silver Film.

It's not Red Dawn.

But you've got the right actor.

It's a Swayze.

Huh.

What is it?

Well, it's not Point Break.

That's later.

No.

It's the Swayze movie that's a big big

remake.

Road.

Yeah, Roadhouse.

Sorry.

What do you think of Roadhouse?

Yeah, I get it.

It's never been mine, but I'm like, I understand the cult around it.

Say like Roadhouse?

Hello.

Yeah, of course.

Yeah, of course.

Yeah.

Fun.

Yeah, man.

He was a philosophy major.

Yeah.

But now he's the freaking best bouncer around.

He rips out throats.

Yeah, dude.

Number five at the box office

is

a film that I

think I've described on this podcast.

It's a very specific film.

It's a major movie star

who often would direct himself, but this is one of the ones where he's being directed by one of his guys.

It's a Clint?

It's a Clint movie.

Is it like Firefox?

Not Firefox.

Clint directed Firefox.

Okay.

But it's in that zone.

It's not Iger Sanction.

That's earlier.

Clint also directed the Iger Sanction, which is an amazing movie.

I'm trying to remember which ones he didn't direct.

Well, I'll say this.

I described it, I think, on this show as what if Clint Eastwood played Gene Parmesan.

Because it's one of those movies where you're like, it's about like kind of a skip tracer, right?

He's this guy who, who like Bronco Billy?

What is that?

Not Bronco Billy Eastwood.

I don't know what that movie is.

Clint also directed that.

That's a really good movie.

Damn it.

Skip Tracer, you know, so like a guy who like basically finds people.

Yeah.

And the whole premise of the movie is like, he's really good at like.

donning disguises to catch people and like he is not like they are gene parmesan level is it called the blank no it's called pink cadillac oh i never knew that's that's what that movie was about.

I guess you've told me it's

a Buddy Van Horn movie.

Buddy Van Horn also directed Any Which Way You Can and The Deadpool.

Pink Cadillac opening at number five.

So I think probably not

a bigger success for him.

Only made $12 million, but it's Clinton Bernadette Peters.

Yeah.

Okay.

You've also got K-9.

That's the Jim Belushi dog movie.

Right.

Outgrossing Turner and Hoosh.

No, there you go.

You've got Pet Cemetery, the original adaptation of Pet Cemetery, that is pretty good.

Yeah, solid movie.

Pretty scary,

directed by Mary Lambert.

Yeah, that's a well-made film.

You have a film that Ben likes a lot, a little movie called Major League.

Well, well, well.

And Bob Euchre just died.

You know, Bob Euchre?

The announcer?

Bob Euchre is a famous announcer, but he also was really funny.

And so he's the announcer in Major League.

And he has two of my favorite line deliveries ever.

One, of course, is just a bit outside, which is so funny.

Kind of a proto-Fred Willard and the best in show performance.

But I just, it just always gets me where he's like, you know, saying, like, setting up, like, all right, and it's all stakes on the line.

And then the other team gets ahead and he goes, ah, shit.

It just always makes me like.

Can we do major leagues?

Yes, we can.

We can just do it.

We can just do it.

We can do whatever the fuck we want.

We run this whatever we want.

We're in charge.

We have no bosses.

We always were kind of like, oh, well, maybe we'll do David S.

Ward.

It's like, we're not going to do that.

The directors.

Maybe we do David S.

No.

Come on.

We're finally going to knock out some David S.

Ward.

So I think we could do Major Leagues one and two on our Patreon.

Do we do back to the Minor League?

We have to.

It's not too good.

Bakula.

Bakula.

Hazebert.

Hazebert and Bernstein, I think, are the two holdovers.

Sure.

From the

two.

Is Major League Two any good?

I love Major League Technology.

I think that's the one.

That was the one I preferred.

Well, that's a crazy one.

But that might have just been...

I actually kind of prefer it too.

It was more regular rotation on Comedy Satchel.

I saw it so many more.

Truly, I have cried at Major League 2 many, many times.

I like the arc of Wild Thing trying to go normal.

Yeah.

And I find the moment at the end where he goes full film.

Well, then I think we need to watch Major League.

Great.

Then we'll do Major League.

Yeah.

Number nine, Rain Man.

which has been in the box office for like six years, six months or the highest grossing film of the year before.

I think so.

it's still yeah yeah uh and then number 10 of the box office is a movie called scandal

uh it looks like a sort of erotic british oh no it's a british it's about the perfume affair very famous uh british sex scandal uh stars john hurt and uh joanne joanne wally the uh wife of uh val kilmer as christine keiller

That's the box office game.

We're done with Indiana Jones' Last Crusade.

Our guest had to leave.

Yeah, box full of fisto.

With a box full of fisto.

And we have a pie from Chris.

Yeah, he gave you a pie

in

celebration of your,

I was, I was about to say growing family, but grown family.

It has now reached its maximum size.

So tired and hungry.

Great.

So the episode's over.

The episode is over.

Yeah.

I love this movie.

Thanks to you all.

It's a good movie.

Thank you for listening.

It's a good movie.

Thanks to you all.

And it's also,

as much as Spielberg is, it's time for him to put aside childish things.

He then makes two kind of ungainly, flawed films before

Jurassic Parks.

Yeah, next week we'll talk about always a very weird kind of total miss for him in terms of public,

you know, response at the box office and critics and all of it

with our friend Richard Lawson returning to the show.

It was kind of his Major League 2 growing up, a movie he watched a weird number of times.

And over on the Patreon, we are talking Star Trek the Next Generation.

And the next movie we are talking about is

Star Trek Nemesis.

Wrapping up the end of that, Stuart Baird's Star Trek Nemesis.

Should we say what we're doing next after that?

Well, we have Galaxy Quest.

Oh, great.

So then we'll save it.

But we're doing Galaxy Quest after Nemesis.

Great.

So like, it's still a few more weeks of that.

Cool.

Thank you all for listening.

And as always, I sent my manager the draft day link.

She responded, we'll look into it.

And I just want to on the record say, I predict nothing will ever come of it.

You predict they will not look into it.

I'm predicting this is the last I hear about it.

Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims.

Our executive producer is me, Ben Hostley.

Our creative producer is Marie Bardy Salinas.

And our associate producer is A.J.

McKeon.

This show is mixed and edited by A.J.

McKeon and Alan Smithy.

Research by J.J.

Birch.

Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American Novel.

With additional music by Alex Mitchell.

Artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds.

Our production assistant is Minic.

Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help.

Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit.

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