The Straight Story with Dana Stevens

Black Jack with Griffin and David

Black Jack with Griffin and David.

Don't know what to say or to expect.

All you need to know is that they made a push with Black Jack.

I'd give each one of them a tangent.

And for each one of them, I'd say,

now you try to listen to that.

And of course,

they'd get real annoyed.

And then I'd say, tie them tangents in a bundle and try to listen to that.

And of course, they loved it.

And then I'd say,

that bundle, that's the podcast.

The only other thing, that's great, great job.

The only other thing, my favorite line in the movie, I guess it would be like,

what do you need that microphone for?

Podcasting.

Yeah.

Grab or grabbing.

It's hard to like, what do you have or grabcast for, podcasting?

Wasn't Wasn't that your entire letterbox log?

Yeah, the most frequent grabber for grabbing.

Yeah.

That's what he needs the grabber for.

Yeah, I couldn't, I look, I, my Farnsworth wasn't quite there, but also it feels foolhardy to even try to actually invoke what he is putting across in this movie, right?

Like, this is one of those like

profoundly affecting just

presence performances in the history of cinema.

Yeah, and you're, you don't have that guy's

life in you.

That's what I'm saying.

I could maybe be like, let me try to get the voice better, but it's like, it's going to be fucking the hollow nonsense

for me.

It would be funny if you auditioned for SNL and you were like, this is Richard Farnsworth in the straight story.

Like, that's your first impression.

Well, no, hold on.

And then it would have to be.

Michael Lauren is like, kind of got the voice right.

He got Farnsworth right.

And you're yelling at the improv suggestions.

Like, what are you doing?

I was going to say, at an audition, I'd have to be like, this is Richard Farnsworth at Line at Costco.

Like, I'd have to come up with some.

This is Richard Farnsworth at the Democratic National Convention,

you know, driving out on a tractor.

I've seen, I've been, you know, in the lead up to this series, I've seen a lot of blank check listeners stumbling upon a realization that I think lives very vividly in all of our minds.

But watching this movie in preparation for the episode, going, holy shit, how did he not win the Oscar?

And then realizing who beat him?

Kevin Spacey and American Beauty?

Yes.

Well, you know.

Even at the time, I feel like there was this feeling of like, wouldn't it be nice if he won?

And, but, but the narrative was, well, the Kevin Spacey, undeniable.

We have to give this man a second Oscar

for the most profound statement on American class.

You're forgetting a couple of things.

Yeah.

And Dane, Dana, please weigh in, obviously, as you already are, and we'll introduce you in a second and we'll talk about the show in a second.

We'll say what the show is.

Yeah.

Russell Crowe was nominated that year for the Insider.

It's a big year.

Which is a performance that could win an Oscar in a lot of years because it's a physical transformation.

And he basically wins his makeup Oscar the next year, his momentum Oscar.

And then Denzel Washington, I would say, was sort of a frontrunner at times for Hurricane because people were like, it's time for Denzel to win an Oscar.

And then he ends up winning his makeup Oscar right after two.

In the year that people thought, is Crow going to win his second Oscar?

And then Washington's almost as surprised.

And so then I think Farnsworth, it was like, well, you know what?

You've had a great career.

And

here's an honor for you to be, you know, nominated and all that.

Who's the fifth nominee?

Sean Penn for Sweet and Lowdown.

Well, of course.

I mean, in my memory, a very good performance.

I have not seen that movie in 20.

Look, it is always funny to like think about the film year of 99 and then go back and check the nominees again.

The year everyone talks about it.

There are some nominees that are very right.

And then there are things that make it in there where you're just like, no one has talked about that movie in 25 years or that movie's reputation has tanked.

And there are 40 movies or performances or elements in that place that you could imagine plugging in.

I would say

Matt Damon and Ripley and Jim Carrey and Man on the Moon were sort of two of the big

outliers.

Richard Farnsworth did win the New York Film Critics Circle Award.

Wow.

Wow.

Yeah.

Our organization before we were in it did a good job.

We also gave it best in a pseudography.

He better have come to the dinner or else I'm revoking the award.

As chair, I have that power.

I just

driving him from the record.

I remember watching the ceremony.

I think

my parents took my brother, my infant sister, and I over to a friend's place.

We weren't watching it at like a party.

The Oscars.

Yes.

They do the clip.

They cut to Richard Farnsworth in the audience.

He has like a single tear in his eye.

And I believe,

I think it was my dad's friend's wife who was there just goes, how do you not give him the Oscar?

I have this very vivid memory of that being said.

And there was this feeling of like, everyone kind of agrees that would be the most emotionally satisfying.

i mean he was dying he was right he literally had terminal cancer while making the movie do you know this ben no this is like very intense to start off the podcast i'm gonna say this and then i'm gonna introduce the show and our guest yes he was 80 years old richard farnes was around you know when he made this movie yes yes uh he gets nominated for the oscar it's this like amazing like career capper he was he'd been in he was a guy who'd been in movies for a very long time he was like an old hollywood stunt man who then became a character actor big western guy you know can i tell you a startling movie that he had an uncredited appearance in?

What?

Gone with the wind.

He is uncredited in Gone with the Wind.

He's one of these guys who is like

a living bridge across the history of like Hollywood as this sort of like Forrest Cump-esque figure and then got like a supporting actor nomination in the 70s.

Is that right?

Did he get a supporting actor nomination?

It's for what's it called?

Comes a.

Comes a horseman?

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Correct.

And then even like when he does this film, it was a bit of a reclamation project of like, oh, that guy.

And it's like so satisfying that he gets this nomination.

He loses to Kevin Spacey.

And then like a month or two later, he commits suicide.

And everyone's like, what the fuck?

And it turned out that he had been like struggling with a late stage,

very advanced terminal cancer, could barely walk through the production of the movie, didn't.

was like resistant to doing the movie because he felt he wasn't up to it.

Was that not known during the Oscar race?

No.

That's the other thing.

It's like there is a very cynical perception of like, if that were known, he might have won.

Well, this is why the Oscars are probably fundamentally kind of bad.

Right.

And it's, I think, like, he wasn't

so touched as like the final note of getting his flowers and the recognition.

I'm not like, oh, and if he had won the Oscar.

I'm not saying anything like that, but it did immediately cast this pallor over it of like, holy shit, we didn't realize that this guy was suffering to this extent the whole time.

Now, this, of course, is a podcast called Blank Check with Griffin and David.

I'm Griffin.

It's a podcast about filmographies.

Wow.

Yeah, it is.

It is.

And this movie was always coming up.

It was always coming up.

The most surprising movie in the filmography of David Lynch, which we've been discussing on this show, right?

Which his take has always been his quote.

My weirdest movie.

Like, this is the weirdest thing I ever made, right?

Something like that.

Experimental.

He called it his most experimental movie.

I can, I'll, you know, dive into the dossier.

It's a podcast about filmography is directors who have massive success early on in their career and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion products they want sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they hop on a lawnmower and drive cross country baby this is a mini series on the films of david lynch it's called twin pods fire cast with me

today we're talking about what i think has to be considered like his second comeback film right This is like a very important rejiggering in his career, I would argue.

I agree with you that as much as this is, I mean, this is a beloved film in many ways, but I would say somewhat of a forgotten movie for him sometimes, right?

Because it's not in his twin iconic sort of three iconic universes, Blue Velvet, Twin Peaks, Mohawk, right?

But the three things he does after this are like huge totemic, clear lynch manifesto works.

Right.

And this is him coming off of a 90s where people turned on him.

Yeah, people were a little sick of his thing.

Lost Highway was at the time poorly,

fairly poorly regarded, mixed at best, right?

I don't know, Dania, I want your perspective on that.

Our guest today.

Yes.

We're talking straight story.

Yes, the film is the straight story.

The great Dana Stevens.

Hello.

Hey, Dana.

Hey.

Yeah, did you see this in theaters?

Do you remember?

Yeah, I have, I have a little story about seeing it that I think maybe points to its reception in some ways, how

lynch heads or people who were excited about a new David Lynch movie saw it at the time, which is that I was supposed to see it on an early date with this guy who we kind of liked each other.

You know, I'm sure that we both talked about David Lynch and wanted to see his new movie.

And because it was about an old guy riding across the country on a trailer, we somehow like, I remember sitting outside the Angelica talking about whether to go in or not.

And we ended up not seeing the movie because essentially, I think it was not like a sexy enough watch or something like that.

You know, that was not consciously on our minds, but I ended up going and seeing it later because it wasn't a date movie.

Did you go to a sexier movie?

No, I think we just walked around.

I think we did, you know, we

were like, forget straight story.

Let's go see kissing in the rain or whatever else.

Now, in retrospect, do you think not seeing the movie is what doomed that relationship?

Do you think that was the fatal mistake?

I think

once you saw the film, you were like, he should have insisted.

I think depending on his response to that movie, it might have ended much earlier.

Interesting.

Right.

Like, if it had become this magical night that we walked around talking about the movie all night afterwards, as one should after the straight story, then it might have been the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

Instead, it was the beginning of an embarrassing, sputtering, failed attempt at romance.

I mean, my memory of this movie was it was playing at the Angelica.

It had premiered.

This movie should still be playing at the Angelica.

This should just have a screen puzzle.

I have to say, in a lot of ways, this movie lives in my mind as the most Angelica movie ever made.

Although it's so quiet, and the Angelica is the noisiest movie theater in New York.

Yes.

We've talked about the Angelica, a movie that basically exists inside of a train station right on top of bravo in a basement yes also here's another thing about the angelica not to just go hyper hyper local here that escalator has been out of service for 10 years i honestly i honestly and i hate yes to be hyper local right now but i don't remember the last time i went to the angelica it's been a while i'm rarely compelled to go there it's not a very very good viewing experience i still go fairly often i do feel like it has a lot of free mouth right movies yeah right that wooden carousel rabbit has been there for like 30 years there's so many things about it that are are insane, but it's deep in a basement.

It used to have up and down escalators and a very long staircase back to street level.

The way the Angelica is, is also, it's like, it's Broadway and Lafayette, basically.

It's, you know, Broadway and Crosby or whatever the fuck, Mercer.

But like, it's, you know, it's in a very, very...

desirable, sexy, you know, expensive part of New York City.

Flagship, high-fashion stores blocks away.

You go up these stairs.

There's a ticket booth.

You can buy your ticket if you want.

And then you go into an atrium the size of just like an airport.

It's massive.

There's nothing in it but a few tables.

Coffee shop, basically.

There's a little coffee shop with like one guy who will make you mediocre coffee.

And then you go downstairs into the movie theater.

It's such a bizarre distribution.

The whole thing is strange.

Yes.

Yes.

And then the movie theaters are these like weird corridors and the with a terrible rake

and people are kind of loud and people forget to close the doors.

And you're right above an incredibly busy subway station.

And so there's a lot of, it's a weird theater.

My, my, my, uh, Romley Newman, longtime sister of mine, is 26 years old.

We went to see some movie there recently, and I made a comment.

I'm like, I can't believe they still haven't fixed the escalator.

And she said, I don't think it has run once in my entire lifetime.

That is false.

I'm sure.

Now, the escalator used to work.

Yes.

But shouldn't it?

But it feels that.

And I started to take an accounting.

And it's not like, I feel like there was a period of time where it was like, oh, it's down a lot.

And to be clear, down escalator always works.

Up escalator has not worked in over a decade.

Feels like you,

which makes the trek out of the movie very difficult.

But can't we all agree that if the Angelica closed, it would be a great loss.

Trendous.

100%.

I don't want the Angelica to go anywhere.

Maybe I just want a bit of a revamp or something.

Here's what I want them to do.

Fix the fucking escalator.

Here's the other thing.

They're doing this theater.

There is constantly like workstations, like flags, a kit with fucking tools splayed out across the like decommissioned escalator.

They're constantly trying to make me think, hey, we're actively trying to fix it.

I've never seen someone working on on it.

All this to say, every time I go down the escalator at the straight story, at the Angelica, sorry, I do feel like I have this Bruce Madeline thing of like the sense memory of going to see the straight story.

Not the first movie I'd seen there, but my parents were like, isn't this so funny?

There's a David Lynch movie being released by Walt Disney Pictures.

Rated G.

It's rated G, We Can Take Our Kids.

And they were talking it up to us.

You guys are going to like this movie.

It's really funny.

It's an old man.

It's a tractor.

And it's weird because it's David Lynch making a family movie.

And I'm like, I don't understand what any of that means.

And they were like, isn't it weird that David Lynch made a Disney movie?

I'm like, I have no context for this.

And my brother and I just sat there and we're like, that's the most boring shit we have ever seen.

This is not a movie in our fucking lives.

Right.

Really going to rev up a couple young boys.

I came around to it much later and now recognized it as a masterpiece.

But like the framing of like my parents hyping this up so much, but the way they were hyping it up was in a way that was alien to me of like, this is fascinating because of his career up until this point.

And they liked it, like, we can take our kids.

Isn't this weird?

And that's how Griffin Newman became Griffin Newman in a lot of ways.

In a lot of ways.

I don't, I didn't see this in theaters.

No, I definitely caught up with this later in that way that many people, the young cine ass probably do, where they're like, So this is David Lynch too, huh?

And then you watch it and you're like, it's a David Lynch movie, like from minute one, seeing some the stars, obviously with this sort of font, you know, the title phone, but then just that shot of someone sitting out on a lawn with the, uh, you know, the, what do you call the tanning mirror thing?

Reflector?

Yeah, you know, you're just like, that looks like a David Lynch character.

Like this, I'm already in it, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

The deliberate way people talk to each other, right?

Just like the sort of care with every character

being presented a certain way.

You know, it's just

always been in all of his movies, maybe save for doom, right?

Like that energy.

And the only thing that's quote-unquote weird about it is that he's removed the most superficially abstract, expressionistic, sort of gonzo David Lynch layer from the top of it, the metaphorical layer that he usually gets into.

But yes, no, this is like, this movie is incredibly lynchy.

And re-watching it after having been watching Twin Peaks for the first time, I'm like, this is 50% of what made Twin Peaks connect with people, that it functions as this like small-town interpersonal drama narrative, which he's always been really good at depicting.

But then, usually, more explosive things happen.

Right.

He always establishes that sense of place at the beginning, right?

The beginning of this could be the beginning of Blue Velvet total the year, you know?

Right.

And I was just even thinking about a thing we weirdly didn't acknowledge at all in our Wild at Heart episode, but like the cutaway to

the explanation of the Crispin Glover character, this weird guy with his weird behavior.

I'm like, you could cut that into this movie and it would kind of fit, you know?

A lot of Wild at Heart would clash with that, but it's like his sort of, you know, I think what a lot of people look at is like, oh, he creates these insane characters and these bizarre performances and these things that are like so out of the ordinary.

I think he's always kind of like starting from a place of observing the kind of human behavior that other people just don't talk about.

I think he has more of a, right, more of a handle on human behavior than the master of surreal weirdness might, you know, you might think.

Which, as much as Crispin Glover is an actor who embodies that kind of thing, if you look at that scene, you're like, yeah, this is the kind of thing someone tells you like, you know, my brother's really weird.

He's got a bunch of odd ticks.

And they tell them to you and you're like, how does that guy function in society?

And the answer is he does and no one really kind of pays attention to it.

You know, just barely.

And this is a very kindly, sort of positive, sensitive version of that kind of thing, but it is still the same.

Even as we said, the introduction of the next door neighbor is just like, this is a very specific type of person who is either not put in stories or is exaggerated to such a comedic degree that they become a cartoon.

And I feel like every character in this movie is like that.

It is wild, though, when you look at his filmography to see that this was in between Lost Highway and Mulholland Drive, you know, and that he only had one more movie after that.

Yeah.

Correct?

I mean, this is so close to the end of his filmography for film, and it's stranded in between two weirdos, you know?

And so it feels to me like it must have been important for him, for David Lynch himself, as a kind of breather.

And he's into meditation, right?

I mean, as a kind of moment of meditation and gathering before going on to make what.

like many would regard as his masterpiece, Mulholland Drive.

But he doesn't talk about it that way.

I mean, it's like, I mean, we'll, we'll dig into this

fully in depth, but like, he just talks about it as, you know, his longtime partner at the time, both in life and in art, Mary Sweeney, is like compelled by the story she reads, options it, works on the script, passes it to him and says, hey, can you give me your thoughts on this?

Not intending for him to direct it.

And he's like, this makes sense to me.

I want to direct this.

He does not talk about it as any sort of strategic pivot or reset.

Right.

He's not someone who talks about that.

No.

Right.

But even

in retrospect, he doesn't talk about it as like, I clearly needed to, I was going through something.

I needed to strip down to the bottom.

Take a breath.

Right.

At any rate, that's what it lets audiences do.

I find.

Oh, yeah.

And there aren't many Lynch movies that do, right?

Because he's the, the, the, I feel like the affect that he's so expert at creating that only he can do and the way he can do it is absent from this movie.

The way that like an empty empty room can be incredibly menacing, right?

Or a TV that's off or, you know, some sort of potential space that's menacing.

That's gone from this movie.

There's a really tactile, direct experience that you're having with the screen at every moment without lurking things around the edges.

Although I do think he's using some of that same skill set, but manifesting it towards melancholy instead.

You know, it's some of the way he shoots empty spaces.

Right.

There's stuff off screen, galore, right?

And it comes out a little bit, for example, when the war comes up late in the movie and things like that.

But what's off-screen is not that kind of, you know,

menacing,

murderous.

Like, there's him working on things, right?

Sawing,

soldering, you know, like things like that.

The farms are, you know, the Alvin.

In like, in this sort of like way that it's like, this feels like the sort of industrial stuff David Lynch likes to do.

This is the fucking opening crits of Twin Peaks.

But like, yeah, all the way quieted down, right?

To actually just like, yeah, this is one man in his little project right now.

And, you know, he wants,

he wants a grabber and he needs it for grabbing.

I also think another thing is that, like, his movies are so often about like the things that cannot be expressed verbally.

These like shames and these pains and these fears that are like internalized and like repressed and then come out in these explosive, menacing ways in, in a lot of senses, I think.

And this is a movie that is just like actually just about people who can't have the conversation,

you know, aren't like tortured inside with themselves.

But the idea that like men will literally ride a tractor cross-country to visit their dying brother in order to avoid going to therapy is not to be glimpsed.

What this movie is.

He's running away from therapy at like five miles and now like therapy is walking very slowly towards him.

But it's what not to jump all the way in makes the ending so profound where it's just like he knows that he actually can never have the conversation with his brother that he's probably needed to have for decades.

The only thing this guy knows he can do is if he drives all the way there and shows up,

that is the statement.

He can physically be there.

Yes.

Ben, had you seen the straight story before?

This is some real Ben Cinema, is it not?

I loved it.

Yeah.

It was so

delightful.

And I just loved how.

Like you guys are saying, these are characters I don't really get to see in movies, I feel like often.

People who remind me of like

people from my town growing up.

I was going to ask, did you say it's Ben Cinema because you're from the Midwest?

He's not a Midwesterner.

This is New Jersey.

This is hardcore Midwest stuff, at least how I think of the Midwest, right?

But I think this movie is filled with

a lot of silent nods.

Yes, as the one member of the crew here who grew up in the suburbs, I guess.

Right.

I fit that.

I think this movie is just filled with the kind of guys you like, like the kind of people you find interesting, you know, in a way that isn't like as much your lived experience, but a thing I feel like you've always been sort of tapped into.

Yeah, I lock into people like this, like the Olson twins, the Olson twins, and the mechanics.

The mechanics is like Mary Kidd and Ashley.

Well, what would Mary Kidd and Ashley make up?

It's true, they're not the first Olson twins in pop culture, but they're the best.

They're both Chris Farley's brothers, right?

I believe you're right.

Yes.

Are you serious?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's Kevin and John

John Farley.

Yeah.

Yes.

Kevin, I feel like I know better.

That guy's in a heavy amount of stuff.

He looks a lot like Chris Farley.

And of course, he was the lead in American Carol, the David Zucker Chris.

He plays a Michael Carlton

type.

I forgot about that.

But is a very good comedic actor.

And then John is a guy that I forget is Chris Farley's brother.

Yeah.

Because he doesn't look like him, but he has a very specific face.

Yeah.

And he's in, like, I think he's in a lot of like, you know, Sandler movies and stuff.

Right.

Anyway.

Ben.

What's up, Griff?

This is an ad break.

Yeah.

And I'm just, this isn't a humble brag.

It's just a fact of the matter.

Despite you being on mic, oftentimes when sponsors buy ad space on this podcast, the big thing they want is personal host endorsement.

Right.

They love that they get a little bonus

on the ad read, but technically that's not what they're looking for.

But something very different is happening right now.

That's true.

We had a sponsor come in and say, we are looking for the coveted Ben Hosley endorsement.

This is laser targeted.

The product.

We have a copy that asks, is the product a porch movie?

It certainly is.

And what is today's episode sponsored by?

The Toxic Avenger.

The new Toxic Avenger movie is coming to theaters August 29th.

Macon Blair's remake of...

Reimagining.

Reimagining, whatever.

Yeah.

Reboot.

of the toxic Avenger.

Now, David and I have not gotten to see it yet, but they sent you a screener link.

Yeah, I'm going to see it.

We're

excited to see it.

But, Ben, you texted us last night.

This fucking rules.

It fucks.

It honks.

Yeah.

It's so great.

Let me read you the cast list here in billing orders, they asked, which I really appreciate.

Peter Dinklage, Jacob Tremblay, Tremblay, Taylor Play Page, with Elijah Wood, and Kevin Bacon.

Tremblay is Toxie's son.

His stepson.

His stepson.

Okay.

Wade Goose.

Yes.

Great name.

Give us the takes.

We haven't heard of them yet.

Okay.

You got fucking Dinkledge is fantastic.

He's talking.

He plays it with so much heart.

It's such a lovely performance.

Bacon is in the pocket too, man.

He's the bad guy.

He's the bad guy.

There's a lot of him shirtless.

Okay.

Looking like David.

David sizzling.

Yep.

And then Elijah Wood plays like a dang-ass freak.

He certainly does.

He's having a lot of fun.

Tell us some things you liked about the movie.

Okay, well, I'm a Jersey guy.

I just got to say the original movie was shot in the town where I went to high school.

Yes, yes, that's right.

The original film.

Yep.

I grew up watching toxic and trauma movies on porches

with my sleazy and sticky friends.

It informed so much of my sensibility.

Your friends like Junkyard Dog and Headbanger.

Yeah, exactly.

Making Toxic Crusader jokes.

And so when I heard that they were doing this new installment, I was really emotionally invested.

It was in limbo for a while before our friends at Cineverse rescued it and are now releasing it uncut.

But I feel like there have been years of you being very excited at the prospect, but also a little weary.

They're playing with fire here.

Yeah, it's just, it's something that means a lot to me.

And they knocked it out of the fucking park.

Okay.

It somehow really captured.

that sensibility, that sense of humor, even just that like lo-fi, scrappy kind of nature that's inherent in all of the trauma movies and the original Toxie movies.

And they have like updated in this way that it was just, I i was so pleased with it it's gooey

gooey tons of blood tons of goo

uh great action it's really fucking funny it just it it hits all of the sensibilities that you would want in an updated version cineverse last year released terrifier 3 unrated yeah big risk for them there i feel like it's a very very intense movie and one of the huge hit more interesting yeah theatrical box office phenomenons the last five years want to make that happen again here

Tickets are on sale right now.

Advanced sales really matter for movies like this.

So if y'all were planning on seeing Toxic Avenger, go ahead and buy those tickets.

Please go to toxicavenger.com slash blank check to get your tickets.

Blank check one word.

In theaters August 29th.

Yup.

And Ben, it just says here in the copy, Wants to call out that Elijah Wood plays a weird little guy who says summon the nuts.

Can you tell us anything about that moment without without spoiling it?

Summon the nuts is in reference to a

psychotic new metal band.

Hell yeah.

Who are also mercenaries.

Cool.

And drive a van

with a skeleton giving two fingies up on the grill.

And that's all I'll say.

Okay.

And they are.

The most dang-ass freaks of dang-ass freaks.

I'm excited to see it.

And your endorsement, I think, carries more weight than anyone else's in the world on this list.

Seriously, get your tickets now.

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The straight story.

Yeah, it's one of my favorite David Lynch movies, but it is also one of those movies where you're kind of like, is it like saying,

what's the Beatles album that this is?

You know what I mean?

Where you're like, well, you know what?

My favorite part of this giant artistic canon is, is the kind of quiet, stripped-down one that people don't, you know, people overlook.

Rubber Soul?

No, it's not Rubber Soul.

The Beatles might be the wrong.

Is it like saying, like,

Amnesiac is your favorite radio head album?

I'm like, literally trying, you know what I mean?

Life of Plants is your favorite Stevie Wonder?

Right.

Where you're like, ooh,

it'll be a little different there, huh?

Everyone likes that one.

I mean, my favorite lunch movie, not to get ahead of rankings in a couple weeks as i've said many times throughout this series is elephant man and i feel like that's the other one that people see as like why is that your favorite that's the least lynchy that movie's so much lynchier than people give it credit for being there is a conventional version of that movie that could be made unlike other david lynch movies which could only be the version he made to an extent but like that movie has his stuff in spades And I think what he added to it is what makes that movie special because no one else would have made it that way.

It does feel like if you say this is your favorite David Lynch movie, maybe you don't like David Lynch.

I can hear you.

Not to generalize.

I can hear you on that.

And I think it's one of his great films.

It's a great film.

Yeah.

Look up at the story.

When you were recruiting people to do this series,

did nobody want the straight story?

Is that what I'm doing?

We should talk about this a little bit.

We established a bit maybe like a year ago on the podcast.

I forget what context in which it came up, but Joe Perra, are you familiar with Joe Perra, the great comedian?

No, he's one of the funniest people alive.

He's a wonderful comedian and a unique comedic presence.

I would say he is the only stand-up comedian who has the comedic sensibility of David Lynch's The Straight Story.

He has this kind of, I mean, I think he's from Buffalo, right?

He's not from the

Midwest, although, you know, Buffalo sort of has some of that

energy.

But he has a style of

assisting,

observant yes and so we were like oh we'll have joe para on the straight story episode and so you got in touch with this is the thing it was even before we knew we were doing lynch somehow joe para came up in some episode conversation he has a great show he did on adult swim called joe para talks to you that i would argue is very much in this kind of vibe but he's never done a blank check no but know him a little bit uh

we're massive fans He came up in some episode and then it was like, would he work on this show?

Would he like clash with our energy, which is so aggressive and talky?

Is there a movie that would fit for him?

And then, somewhere we pulled out, like, you know, if we ever did David Lynch's straight story, it would be perfect for Joe Para.

So, then Lynch wins our March Madness competition.

And we immediately go, Well, the movie is we got to see if we can get Joe.

I want to read his quote just to honor Joe, who was supposed to be maybe on a version of this episode.

And then my wife went into labor the day we were supposed to record it.

Yes, it truly, he was David.

I just want to say Joe was doing two stand-up tours this year.

There was a brief window in between two tours where he was set to do the episode.

And the day he was supposed to do the episode is when David's twins were born.

And now I had to email Joe and say, don't go to the studio.

A wonderful thing has happened.

Sure.

Yes.

Yes.

I just want to say what Joe Paris said, and you're going to have to put it into his voice if you're listening, if you know his voice.

My dad.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down.

Slow way the fuck down.

My dad took us to see it as a kid while our mom was out of town, and he loved how the guy ate baloney.

I haven't seen it since then, so it'll be a good chance to re-watch.

Now, that was his whole take on the straight story.

I have no idea if he would have had further take on the straight story.

Um, it's a specific, it's that kind of bratwursty baloney, right?

That uh, Sisty Space I guess piling on.

Yep, Braun Sweiger.

Bronze Feiger.

Don't know if I've had that kind of stuff in many years.

Well, I put one on each one of our tables.

I eat it.

Feel free to just jump in at any point

real slowly.

But that, right?

It's like basically kind of like Bratwurst baloney, right braun schreiger uh anyway um

anyway but uh joe could do it joe made a real effort the circumstances got in the way

slot opened up you are one of my favorite guests we have on this show and every time i see you as well you're like when can i come on again like i feel like you're always very eager to come on oh yeah i say yes before you're done asking the question yes so i we were like oh we need to do straight story quickly uh and i was just immediately like dana might love that i just have a feeling feeling.

I mean, I'm from Texas, suburban Texas, but we'll call that my rural cred.

I am from suburban San Antonio.

Yeah.

Nice.

Hot, though.

Yeah, too hot.

Would not live there now.

Yeah.

But it was, it was a real, you know, one door closes, one door opens opportunity.

We're very excited to have you here.

And Danny, you discussed this show on Flashback, right?

Which was a podcast you had.

Yes,

my classic film.

And we defined classic film as before 2000.

So this just got in under the wire.

It might have been, in fact, the most recent movie we ever talked about on Flash Management.

Was that a you pick or a cam pick, or I don't know how you guys came?

I can't remember.

I believe it may have been a cam pick.

I mean,

the picking process for that show was very

aleatoric, I guess you'd call it.

It was sort of based on things that came up in each conversation.

And then suddenly we'd say, oh, wait.

You could do that.

We couldn't talk about this without seeing this movie.

And so somehow it became straight story.

Aleatoric is just a really good word to be busting out.

I have not heard anyone use that word in a long time.

It's like, it's like roll of a dice, right?

Like, or whatever, like, yeah.

David's socks were just knocked off.

I was just sitting on the floor.

Get the heck out of here.

But you're making me miss.

I love that podcast, Flashback.

It was too good to live.

Yeah, well, most things are.

Except for blank check.

Just soldiers on inexplicably.

10 years ago, we had Flashback.

We had cereal.

Cereal's back, isn't it?

Oh, yeah, right.

Cereal's back.

I keep forgetting when cereal kind of comes in and out.

So you don't remember when you saw this movie, but you saw it some years ago.

I went to it.

Yeah, when I dived into Lynch, I think.

I was going to say, so you probably saw it after Mulholland had such a profound impact on you.

100%.

Like such a profound impact.

And then I probably went back to, you know, like Elephant Man, Blue Velvet, things like that.

But I think I came across this pretty quickly.

And as an Oscar boy, I think I was also aware of it.

And I was aware of, like, that's what I was aware of it at the time.

Like, and you see, you had that sort of profound reaction to it when you were the Oscar season.

I remember it more in the cynical way of my mom being like, yeah, that's like a, you know, he's like an old actor that everybody knows.

And he did a movie where he's like an old guy.

And so they're kind of like, ah, good for you, buddy.

You know, like she had the more, I don't think she'd seen the movie.

Here's the wild thing.

Even though my brother Jamesy and I were both unified in like honk zhu, honk shoo boring shit, when Oscar season came around, I was like, it'd be nice if he won.

Like I even threw that saw, not just for sentimental reasons.

And also, I was a 10-year-old.

I hadn't seen American Beauty, right?

I was like, I don't know, everyone's telling me this is the most profound thing that's ever been made.

But it was absolutely the first Lynch movie I saw.

And then it was only when then in my teen years, I started watching other Lynch movies that I was like, oh, even in my mind's eye, that movie now retroactively starts to make sense.

Also, everything about it I found boring when I was 10 now makes it like, in my eyes, one of the most relaxing watches.

of all time.

It's true.

It is incredibly relaxing without being, for an adult at least, boring at all.

Right.

I mean, there's so little suspense.

The suspense is like, will he slowly chug, chug his way across the state border?

You know, but I love that there is that one moment of possible physical danger, right?

When his brakes go out,

but it is not one of those movies, like almost every movie, where there's some sort of physical danger looming at some point over the main character.

Totally.

And even just like, you know, as a child, the one scene I remember working for me was the monologue about the woman who keeps hitting the deer.

Right.

And I remember that being this sort of like big explosive comedic moment that broke up the silence.

Oh, this movie's like trugging a lot.

Then there's this huge set piece, and then it goes back to whatever.

It goes back to him not talking to his brother on a porch, right?

The other reason why this is real Ben cinema, right?

Um, that's true, major porch action.

Oh, yeah, and that was a really good porch.

Yeah, great porch.

I'd have to give that.

They probably looked at a bunch of porches to settle on that.

I'd have to give that maybe a nine out of ten.

Wow, nine porch scale.

What would the scale for porches be?

Nine crawl spaces, flats,

yes

nine screen ends

dilapidated shack but great porch on it uh no i just it was interesting re-watching this and like that scene is so much shorter than i remembered it being you know and it's incredible but in my memory it was like oh this is some like lights out eight minute beatrice straight monologue that is to like play into the back of the house and it is an incredibly funny scene that is astoundingly well acted, but it's like a small moment.

And anytime the movie sets up a thing that could be huge, it doesn't feel like it brushes it off, but it just like handles it kind of as simply as it could and then just moves on.

Yeah.

I mean, it's a classic road movie in the sense that, you know, each encounter adds something to the thematic material that the movie's kind of gathering up, but they don't trigger each other, right?

It's not an after hours where it's sort of like, this happened and therefore this happened, right?

It's more like a bunch of essays or short stories kind of woven together by the fact one man is witnessing which is why i think he's arguing this movie it continues to argue this movie is his most experimental because you're like this is sort of this goes against every rule of like dramatic storytelling in a lot of ways and like a thing that i now find astonishing and like brilliant and beautiful that as a 10 year old i was like are you fucking kidding me is that like he tries and it doesn't work and the movie basically resets 25 minutes in where it's like When his first mower breaks,

right, when he hits the road, you're like, Great, movie started, movie start the road in the motor, and then immediately it's going so bad that you're like, this surely is not how he's gonna make it, right?

Yeah, it goes on long enough that it doesn't feel like a false start where you're like, he gets like 15 minutes into the first attempt before he's back to square one, has to buy a new mower.

Oh, which leads to my favorite, favorite gag in the entire thing.

It's such a good sight gag when he goes to the John Deere dealership.

Just the scale difference between the giant green John Deere machines and like the tiny thing that he buys, that whole transaction, that's when the movie really, really pulls you in.

It's just pure comedy.

What a lovely fucking scene.

There are very few scenes in this movie that you could not say that about, but yes.

But to have Big Ed just kind of in the pocket being like, that's my, that's my mower, and I'm selling it to you, you know?

And even the hot rod second mower that he gets is 33 years old.

Right.

He's seeing all these state-of-the-art ones and he's like, what's the worst one you've got?

And he's like, This is an old model that will get you there.

Right, right.

Like, this functionally will.

Yes.

Also, knowing that this movie was based on like don't like the

you know, the one wheel on the road, you're just immediately like, Jesus, man, like, this isn't gonna work.

Anyway, sorry.

Uh, what were we gonna say?

Knowing this movie is based on a true story, yes.

And in fact, I have here my French 4K copy of it, where the title is literally a true story.

Yes, Dunistois Verre.

Yes.

Which, this is one of the few movies that I'm like,

it can get away with that being its title.

Absolutely.

Right.

A true story.

But I think when my parents were pitching me what this movie was to get us excited to go down the escalator at the Angelica,

I was like, oh, and then he becomes like a celebrity.

Like I expected some

force, gump-esque.

He becomes a towering folk hero.

Right.

And people are cheering him when he pulls into.

Right.

Right.

People start hearing about it on the radio and then they watch him go by their town and they give him a you know bucket of fudge because the only reason this movie exists is because they read it in the newspaper and it's like no doesn't happen he's just on his way and people are like i don't know if we'll make it at the end they're like damn

are you giving fudge buckets out if you want some you can get get to work all right uh all right 1994 august 1994 the new york times broke One of the biggest stories of the year, JJ being funny because of a certain white Bronco.

Alvin Strait, 73-year-old man from Lawrence, Iowa with poor eyesight, so he could not have a driver's license, went 240 miles from Iowa to Wisconsin on a 1966 John Deere lawnmower to see his 80-year-old brother Henry, who had had a stroke.

I know this geographic.

Talking about six weeks.

Doesn't make any sense, but could you imagine if the Bronco and the John Deere had intersected?

Yes.

Not crash, but we're running at parallel lanes at any for one solitary second.

Like, and then the news footage is like, by the way,

we're zipping right past him, but that's that uh farmer guy.

The helicopters are like, This guy's moving real slowly.

And at one point, of course, his engine failed.

Another point, he had to wait for a social security check.

Uh, and uh, his brother told the Associated Press, all I could do was unhitch his motor, it ain't that hard to unhitch.

Did it really take five weeks in real life?

Six weeks, yeah, five, six weeks, yeah, took a few weeks.

Saved a week off, man.

So much for being a true story.

Summer of 1994, David Lynch was somewhat obsessed by O.J.

Simpson.

O.J.

Simpson obviously informs Lost Highway, I would say, a little bit.

But Mary Sweeney was obsessed with this story, and she said, because I'm from the Midwest, it spoke to me.

She's from Madison, Wisconsin, which JJ calls the greatest fucking city on Earth.

Our researcher lives in Madison.

JJ was texting us links of things we should talk about in reference to Madison.

And one was the Mars Cheese Castle, which I have been to.

And then said, by the way, I'm vegan.

And then sent us a link to a beer employment went, by the way, I'm sober.

So he's pitching out ideas and then telling us that he doesn't engage with them.

But yes, best city in the world.

Yeah.

So I've never been.

I've never been.

I'd love to go.

Good.

I've only been to the cheese castle.

I was in Chicago and we drove an hour out of the way to go to the cheese castle.

What the fuck is the cheese castle?

It's exactly what it sounds like, my friend.

It's a big castle that's filled with the most cheese you've ever seen in your life.

If it's not made of cheese, I'm not paying ticket price.

I want to say the castle facade does not iconic like I-94, you know, stop.

Right.

It doesn't look like it's a castle made of cheese, but inside it is the most comprehensive cheese store you could imagine.

Yeah.

I've never been to the great state of Wisconsin.

Sorry to say.

I think that was my only experience.

I've been to Chicago, but I've not really been to a lot of America's Midwest.

I apologize to the region.

So do any of you know this route that Richard Farnsworth is tugging?

No.

Nope.

JJ started talking to me about it.

I was like, I'm talking to Google Maps.

Well, I know Mary Sweeney made the trip with her co-writer while she was writing this screenplay.

Beyond that, she and David Lynch, who were a couple at the time, bought a house on Lake Mendota, which is one of Madison's three major lakes.

And so they were familiar with the place.

And Sweeney says, I grew up in Wisconsin.

I connected with that kind of stoic, nonverbal, stubborn,

idiosyncratic American character.

I get how hard it is to have pride and dignity when you're old and poor and living in the middle of nowhere.

That really comes through in this movie because it's like, that's all he really wants.

And like all that most of these characters really want is just to be like, it's just some goddamn dignity.

And I'm sure you're about to get to this, but like he was very resistant to selling his rights.

And I'm sure her saying that exactly was probably what got him to trust her.

Yeah.

John Roach,

who co-wrote a childhood friend of hers, co-wrote the screenplay with her.

He's a Madison-based television producer,

went to the same like grade school as her.

They knew each other very well

and they had stayed in touch their whole life.

But as you say,

his life rights, other people have made a play for it.

Ray Stark, who worked with Barbara Streisand by the back in the day, optioned it to have Larry Gelbart write a screenplay for Paul Newman, and Alvin Strait said, nah.

And then Sweeney got the rights after he died, I think.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

After Alvin Strait died, to be clear.

And

they could not consult with him as a result, but they did

Roach talked to him once before his death.

Right.

I know she did.

He says that he was a tough old cob.

Okay.

He said he would test you, but he had a smile in his voice.

And I think he was leery of all the media attention.

But he did sign the deal.

So he did.

They got him to do it, I guess, right before.

I think just while writing it.

Right.

Yeah.

He passed away.

Did they write it with Richard Barnsworth in mind?

I mean, you can't do that.

That's a good question.

You can't, but all right.

That's.

I thought that was a lynch.

Well, that's like, all right, yeah, that's interesting.

Cause, right, it's like, so there, it's like, right.

She's not working on this thinking, like, I'll give this to David.

No, she's working on it herself.

She's explicitly thinking he wouldn't.

This isn't his cup.

He said at one point, right, it's an interesting idea.

It's not my cup of tea.

She gave him the script just to see if he thought it was any good.

And it struck an emotional chord with him.

And she wasn't surprised.

She says, because like you say, there's the Twin Peaks small town quirkiness and there's the tenderness.

But nonetheless, somewhat surprisingly he was like i think i should make this

and uh you know uh they opened a bottle of wine they were on lake whatever the hell it is jj note men dota i already forgot see he knew i would forget and david poured them a couple glasses of wine and said uh john and mary i'd love the honor of directing your screenplay is jj off they went starting to write these dossiers book of henry style

Your left mom, no, your other left.

Like, he's giving you directions, guessing how you're going to react in real time.

Two in my head.

Wow.

Anyway, so Lynch says, what struck me was the simplicity, the purity of the story.

It's about a man all alone, and we learn a few things about him.

And in the end, he teaches us quite a bit about life.

It's funny how Lynch sometimes will give these really clever quotes, and sometimes he gives the most kind of trite,

basic, back-of-the-DVD box kind of quotes.

Like, you're going to learn a few lessons too, you know?

He'll teach you some lessons.

A film that will touch your heart.

And

he's, Sweeney says, yeah, I see a lot of parallels with David's other work, his lyrical, emotional side.

And even though his movies are dark, there's a struggle, a hunger for love and dignity.

The Elephant Man may be the most obvious parallel.

I don't know.

How do you feel about the Elephant Man, Dana?

How do you feel about David Lynch in general?

I haven't really asked.

When Griffin said Elephant Man is my favorite, I thought, I've never, I'm not a ranker.

I've never gone through and tried to rank David Lynch's movies, but I think Elephant Man would be somewhere near the top for me too.

And while I admire David Lynch's work tremendously, I would not say that he's one of my guys.

You know, he's not a guy who even his best movies are sort of, you know, desert island beloveds for me.

Like, I could have a whole sub-conversation about Mulholland Drive, which I think has moments of incredible brilliance and sublimity, but still feels to me like a TV show that didn't make it to being a TV show.

Well, that never happened.

That's made up.

How dare you say that?

And I have had many a table-pounding dinner with folks, including the people I saw Mulholland Drive with, where I tried to make the point, like, this,

not every part of this movie works.

And you can talk to me all day, and I will not say that the Justin Thoreau plot line in that story really needs to be in there.

But it's a very, it's a, you know, whatever.

But yeah, but, but for that reason, maybe.

Our

very long Mohawan Drive is coming up next week.

Who did your Mohaw and Drive up?

Leslie Hadland.

The great Leslie Hedland.

And I believe it is without question.

Oh, I'm sorry.

We're going to do a fucking episode on Robert Zimekis here next week, just FYI people.

But Mohal and Drive is the week after that.

Great.

And that won't be five hours.

But when

he says very long, it was nearly four hours.

It's the record breaker.

I mean, but that's the great conversation piece movie.

That's what I always say about Moholland Drive is like, there is no more fun movie to talk about.

I'm sure that the dinner I had with the folks that I saw it with must have lasted four hours.

Well, for both you and Leslie also, David, that is like one of your all-time activators.

The Thunderbolt movie for me is a, yes.

And I think, oh, you mean it's a movie that got your cinematic imagination kind of going.

Right, right, right.

For me.

But that, but that is not the movie we discussed today.

Yes, Lynch still had this three-picture deal with Sibi2000, which had folded, but was now part of Canal Plus.

Pierre Edelman was there, and he got him a budget of about $7 million.

I don't know how it ended up with Disney, but I'm sure we'll get to that later.

I mean, I know the basics of it are just that it went to Cannes and it didn't have American distribution.

And Disney was like, weirdly, this could fit into our branding.

And that was a period of time where Disney would still kind of take flyers on like something that is family friendly and more art house or more sophisticated at a low enough number

and like, you know, try to get Oscarnoms or whatever.

And it is part of the weirdness of like, it is so incongruous with Disney's branding now in a way it wasn't as much in the 90s that this is the one country where the movie does not exist on any modern form of physical media because Disney just kind of can't be bothered.

It is on Disney Plus streaming, which is amazing.

Right.

And like in every other country, you have an Australian Blu-ray, I gave you.

I have my French 4K here.

Here, Disney's like, what are we going to fucking, the straight story?

What are you talking about?

Make a few bucks.

But Disney only had it in the States.

Yeah.

and really tried to i think pitched it as more of a like

almost i know this movie comes later but something like the rookie

where they were like this is like a humanistic true story true story drama and yeah there's a world where the rookie gets dennis quaid an oscar nomination absolutely which is i like that movie yeah he's very good in it he is very good in it yeah sometimes he's bad sometimes he's good it feels like that's you know what though Like this is kind of the last movie of its type that Disney does.

And then the 2000s, they're like, build this around sports stories.

And that becomes their own sub-franchise of like, remember the Titans, the Rookie, Miracle.

Yes.

That's what this evolves into in a certain way of like, we could make these ourselves, put a little more dramatic stakes in it, cast a bigger movie star like you've never seen him before.

Yeah.

To answer your question, Dana, the straight story was offered to Gregory Peck, who had not been in a film since Marcus Corsesi's Cape Fear.

Yeah.

In which he's kind of being used in this sort of referential way of like, oh, it's from the original.

It's Gregory Gregory Peck.

Yeah.

That is a different movie.

I cannot imagine Gregory Peck in this movie at all because Gregory Peck is such a like, you know, sort of statue of a man.

He's such a titan.

Like, you know, I can't see him being kind of like the kind of quiet dignity guy in the same way where like Richard Farnsworth feels like someone who's really been worn down to a bit of a nub, like.

not in a like bleak way even, but just like he's, he's really kind of like a rusty old guy.

I don't know.

Yeah, I also think that

the best version of Gregory Peck doing this is a little about Schmidty, just in like you're thinking the whole time, wow, it's incredible that Gregory Peck stripped down this much.

Right, right, right.

You know, like you're, you're thinking about how much he's playing against his persona, even if he nails it.

Versus Richard Farnsworth, I like as a child was like,

this guy was in movies before.

Yeah, he absolutely has the quality of the movie.

It feels like they just just dug him up, right?

And right.

And he, Farnsworth was the second choice.

He had not been in a film since 1994's Lassie,

which was, I've, in my, if I've seen it, I don't remember, but sort of in that same era as they did Flipper and like, you know, where they were like, let's bring back all the, right, all the old kid animal movies.

Yeah.

Um, he had been working on a steer ranch for five years in New Mexico, and he was interested, but then he backed off.

Um, he didn't say it was because of his health, but Lynch later thought like he must have been worried about his health that he wouldn't be up to it.

And so then Lynch went to John Hurt,

which is of obviously makes sense in terms of David Lynch.

And obviously, John Hurt has the kind of craggy face that, you know, but like he's a British thespian.

It's a little, that's a different vibe.

Yeah, I mean, you could not worship John Hurt more than I worship Johnny.

I love John Hurt, but I'm glad he didn't get that role.

Same.

Yes.

And then Farnsworth came in, I assume, on tractor or lawnmower for his annual meeting with his agent in Hollywood.

I just like to imagine him like once a year getting up from the ranch and being like, let's see if there's any offers for Farnsworth.

But also, I mean, the idea that he hadn't acted in almost five years at this point, that he was presumably in retrospect already struggling with severe health issues.

I also imagine that once a year he'd go into his agent and be like, yet again, blanket no, and then walk out.

He said that basically, his agent said that basically it was a tradition at this point.

They would get lunch in L.A.

once a year, right?

They'd probably been doing it for a long time.

Hard passed on everything.

They were gnawing on some Braunschweiger together.

Exactly.

That was their lunch.

They'd go to a porch and shoot Braun Schweiger.

And they met for lunch and the agent said, you know, Richard, you look good.

Maybe you should do the story.

Should the straight story.

And Richard said, you know, I think I should.

And he called.

And so Lynch had to call John Hurd, who totally understood.

And we're so thankful for how that worked out.

And Lynch says about about Farnsworth, it's a thing coming through him that I think is unique.

He's kind of an amazing person.

He's smart, but he's innocent and he's adult, but he's a little childlike.

He feels what he says.

When he says what he says, you can see exactly what he's saying.

That is beautifully put.

Yes.

Well, and it gets at why Gregory Peck or anybody really who had that strong, silent machismo kind of style wouldn't really work because he's, this guy's a man's man, right?

In the sense that he clearly can ride a horse, you know, he can fix a car.

He has this, he's a veteran, all of that.

But there's a real gentleness and vulnerability to him all the way through, not just at the moments that he like breaks down at the bar with the other veteran, right?

He's always emotionally open.

And a boyish quality that Lynch is like invoking there.

There's something of like some of the scenes, it feels like he's thinking out loud and putting something together for the very first time this late in his life.

Obviously, his relationship with the daughter also informs that right away in the movie with Rose.

But Farnsworth says, I identified with the guy.

I'm on a cane.

He was on a cane.

I was proud to be in a film with no four-letter words, no sex, no violence.

You got the fields, the flavor of the farmland, and that old man, he wanted to do it his way and didn't want anyone helping him.

Well, and to be fair, he had just had a bad experience with Lassie cussing up a storm.

That diva.

Yeah.

And he said, you know, we would go, we went along the route, and people would come by and say, hey, I remember when old Alvin came through, and they would tell us about it.

That kind of rules.

Yeah.

And of course, he was nominated for his second Oscar, became the oldest actor to get a lead nomination at 73, beating out that hack Henry Fonda for On Golden Pond.

Until Anthony Hopkins for the father is the one who beat him out.

And yeah.

And Jack Fisk was the production designer.

It is wild.

Who had never worked with David Lynch before on a feature?

Right.

And who was

going to say it's wild that it took this long for Lynch to work with Spacek, considering they had known each other for decades.

They had, and they'd always been talking about, like, we'll find a part for you one day.

Yeah.

Also, wasn't he married to Jack Fisk's sister at some point?

So it's all of the family, right?

I mean,

Spacek was like a family friend.

These are like formative people in his life.

Yeah.

Can we just also just shout out Jack Fisk is such a Fisk is such a genius.

And if he's on a movie, it's almost like the Harry Dean Stanton rule, which we'll get to later on, which is that if Jack Fisk is involved with the movie, it's going to have something great about it.

His track record is incredibly strong.

Obviously, he mostly works with like David Lynch and Terrence Malik and Paul Thomas Anderson and all these incredible people.

Well, he just did Killers of the Flower Moon for Scorsese, a movie which I think the production design is one of the most outstanding movies.

He built a fucking town.

Insane.

Right.

By himself.

Right.

And it was a billiard hall with the barbershop in it.

I just love it.

Like the amount of research that goes into that, making those spaces.

There were so many people I talked to who I consider like hardcore film nerds like us, where I was like, fucking Killers of the Flower Moon should win production design.

And they'd be like, but poor things and the whatever.

And I'd be like, Jack Fisk has never won before.

Yeah, it's great.

And they'd go, that's wrong.

You're wrong about that.

Right.

How could that

feels incorrect?

To me, it's one of those things where it's almost like he's too good for an Oscar.

I kind of agree.

It's like you almost want your, those kind of faves to just sail above it all.

He's also fascinating because, like, he has such a big career, like, kind of developing the Lynch visual world in his art school days, and then doing like Days of Heaven and all this stuff.

Then there's like a 15-year period where he's mostly directing.

He like directs several movies with Sissy in them, and then he like comes back to production design after like a long gap.

Yeah, Raggedy Man, Violiths are blue.

These are some of the sissy space deck movies he made.

And he doesn't work that much.

And when he does, it feels important.

And it's like always.

But then there's the odd credits.

Like he did the production design for Causeway, and I'm not sure why.

Oh, the Jennifer Lawrence movie?

Yeah, the Lena Nukemauer movie.

I don't know.

Yeah.

But then obviously it's mostly right, like Paul Thomas Anderson and stuff like that at this point.

He did the Revenant, which is a beautifully designed movie for for whatever you might think of it.

I think it's really amazing looking movie.

Anyway, the straight story.

They shot it in sequence

going along his route.

It made sense, of course, because they were traveling the route to shoot it in sequence, basically.

They shot very quickly because it was going to get really cold, really fast out there.

Freddie Francis, who had worked on Elephant Man and Dune, was the...

cinematographer again, hadn't worked with Lynch in a bit, and this is his final credit.

Angelo Battlementi doing what I would argue is his coolest score.

Really cool score.

I mean, the score rules, but it's just so cool that this is him going this outside of his wheelhouse and nailing it.

Yes.

Film premiere to Cannes for the first time since Lynch had sort of bombed there with Firewalk with me.

Lynch says he didn't win anything because David Cronenberg was the jury president, which is funny, where he's just like, this is not a Cronenberg movie.

You know, I don't know what won Canned that year.

No, now I want to.

99?

Yeah.

Rosetta.

Rosetta won unanimously.

I'll always remember remember that.

If you've seen the Dardenn movie Rosetta, which is like Rosetta is one of those movies that you walk out of feel like you've been hit in the face with a sledgehammer.

I can, that's a huge, they make film festival movies.

Like, I like the Dardennes a lot, especially back then.

But you know, you're always just like, Jesus, what a fucking situation they're all in in that movie.

You're just like, how can we not acknowledge poor Rosetta?

Anyway, do you like Rosetta?

I think that was the first Dardenn movie I ever saw.

So at the time, I think it blew me away because I hadn't seen them do their thing.

Right.

You're You're like, oh, that's always the movie.

I was going to say also a movie that's like a little forgotten now.

I think it's a little forgotten.

Even their ooh.

It's a good movie.

Yeah.

L'Enfant is my favorite of their movies, which also won the Palme d'Or.

Anyway.

Did they win

three times?

Only twice.

Okay.

Have they won three times?

Am I insane for thinking they won a third time?

No, only twice, but they've won so many.

festival prizes over the years.

Anyway,

but the film was very well received at Cannes.

Disney sees dollar signs in their eyes.

Mickey's rubbing his hands together.

Oh, boy, oh, Walt Disney Chief Peter Schneider said it's an ode to America, to human values.

It's a journey of redemption.

It celebrates the aging of America.

They backed the movie.

It didn't make a lot of money.

You know, it didn't have like the

whatever breakout sort of, you know, word of mouth success, I assume they wanted, but it got good reviews and it got an Oscar nomination.

That is the straight story.

Goodbye.

David!

Oh, no, right.

The movie.

I maybe said David in a tone that's too close to the ad read, David.

Now that's going to throw people off.

David, what?

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The fact that it starts so slowly and patiently with such a minor, such a, excuse me, major inciting incident.

But that we're like seeing the woman setting up her tanning, right?

Then we're seeing the guys at the bar slowly recognizing, like, a little weird that Alvin isn't here, but not in this huge, like, where's Alvin kind of way?

They slowly make their way over.

Nobody's huge.

No,

they're asking the tanning woman, she's annoyed that she has to be dealing with it.

She seems annoyed with Alvin in general.

They go discover him.

She immediately starts sort of play acting her like visible concern.

What's the number for 911?

Yeah, but all this stuff could be so broad and silly.

And it's like, it takes basically seven and a half minutes, I think, before you actually see him on the floor.

Yes.

And him being like, I just need a little help getting up, you know.

But I'd say Sissy Space Deck is the one who's big, right?

Because she, like, that character has much bigger emotional reactions to things than everyone else.

A pretty credible performance.

Yeah.

I mean, she's like one of my favorite actors of all time.

I wondered if it was true, and maybe we don't have enough background on the real Alvin Strait, but did he have a daughter who was like intellectually disabled and her children were taken away?

His real-life daughter's name was Diane, and she had a sort of stutter, an unusual sort of speech pattern that Sissy Spacecraft was trying to replicate.

I don't know the details beyond that.

They don't mention like if it's exactly the same way.

Sissy Spacecraft is wearing like a dental prosthetic, I think, to assist with like.

The speech impediment, right?

Yes.

I mean, this is just like the circumstances of this character could be such a train wreck in the hands of a less skilled actor and director of going towards like insane, maudlin, showy.

Yeah.

On paper, it is that way, right?

Like even her looking out the window at the kid with the ball, and then later that becomes a story that you understand in a different way.

But why is it not sappy the way it plays out?

I mean, the kid with the ball, I will take back what I said before about not having very much Lynchian menace in this, because that shot is complete Lynchian menace, right?

There's a sense of dread hanging over it, but you don't know why, of course, until much later.

Right.

And her big monologue comes fairly early in the movie because she really is kind of gone once he gets on the road.

You know, I mean, I feel like the Disney poster, the American poster for this, at least was Farnsworth SpaceX above the title.

She's still a big name.

Totally.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so I was like, well, they're going to keep cutting back to her on the phone, checking in with him.

And they don't.

She's called home more often.

Totally.

But you're like, she's really important in the beginning to be able to sort of

pathologize him because he's he's so unwilling to talk and explain himself, but to have that character not just be a conduit for his emotions, but be someone who's gone through so much herself and then have this like big sort of like explaining my whole tragic backstory monologue at like the 30-minute mark that she somehow underplays.

No, she just also has it for dad that he's talking about.

You're right.

You're right.

You're right.

I don't think we hear it through her.

I think we hear it through him telling some, but I can't remember who he tells now.

Is it the

fireside chat with the young girl?

Maybe.

Yeah, I guess so, because she asks if he has a wife.

Yes, that's right.

And then he gets into his family and mentions that he has six other kids, right?

Yes.

Yeah.

Alvin Straight had seven children.

So, right.

Like, you know, there are other that we do not see in the movie, but yes, the real Alvin Strait had seven kids.

Too many kids, in my opinion.

Well, no wonder the guy's tired.

Yeah, you're catching up.

So.

He goes to the to go, David.

If you have two more sets of twins, you're done.

No, there's, there's,

there are plans in motion to uh

never

okay hear me out hear me out one set of four you're not gonna one you just i don't want to my kids

my kids you know my kids my twins were born and they went to the niku like because they were early and there were quads at the niku like uh not not in their room but like in you know we would always be hearing about the quads ride those around in there

Five comedy points back.

The nurses get around by a quad bike.

I don't know what you're talking about.

I mean, it's a big hospital.

You gotta, you gotta, no, it's just, there were quads.

And you're just like, how is that?

You just immediately start being like, that can't be true.

I mean, it's just like, how could that be true?

When you told Ben and I the news that you were, you and your wife were expecting twins and we were taken aback.

I do feel,

I do feel like I pretty quickly responded with at least it's not triple.

Yeah, man.

One of the first things we asked.

I remember we were like, and it's, there's two in there.

And I remember the doctor being like, that is a good question.

Check the corner.

One more more look.

There's not a little guy.

No, 100%.

Anyway, so Alvin straight falls down on his kitchen floor.

He is told to go to a doctor.

He sort of reluctantly trudges over there.

The doctor's like, it's time for you to, one, stop smoking, two, use a walker.

He is like, you know, no thank you on the smoking.

No, thank you on the walker.

He offers for two canes, which is like that kind of like rugged individualism little, right?

Where it's like, that's, that's a little less demeaning in a way than just, right, the walker feels more of a sort of, I'm really surrendering to my age.

But also this, like, I don't want to be a problem.

I don't want to make a big thing out of this.

I don't want anyone feeling bad about me.

I'm fine.

And you're right.

Early on is that that sort of very Lynchian scene of Sissy Space Deck looking out the window at the boy with the ball where you are kind of like, where's this going?

Right.

Like, you know, if you, if you don't know it's a true story.

about a guy who rode on a tractor and you're watching this movie, Griff, like, where do you think this is going at this point?

I mean, I did know that, though.

That was the

one that

you think the little boy meant.

I think I thought at that moment that she was either lonely and thinking about the fact that all she had was her dad, and when he was gone, she wouldn't have anyone, any family, or

that she was sort of just thinking about a lifespan that she's talking to this really old guy who's at the end of his days, and she sees like a child, and it's the life cycle.

I hadn't seen it in so long that I, I mean, I certainly must have processed it this way the first time I saw it if I wasn't performatively hong shooing in the in the Angelica basement.

And I once again fell for it this time where I'm like, oh, that's some, she can't have children or she never had children or she feels lonely.

Like it is a little surprising when you find out because of how this character is introduced, you're just like, oh, she's had to stay at home.

She can't exist on her own.

They take care of each other.

It is what is so tragic about her that it was sort of like her life kind of was taken from her and collapsed but yeah i i i i don't know i read it as some sort of longing before you really understand what it is right yeah uh then he goes to the store and he gets a grab her

another another moment of rugged individualism where it's like i want to buy the thing that's not for sale essentially the audience cheers

yeah and and then you realize he's sort of constructing this tractor situation to get over to Wisconsin to see his brother.

That's his sort of quiet mission he's designed for himself.

But But there's never the scene where it's like, I know what I got to do.

I'm making the big pronouncements.

There's the scene, like, there's a scene where he ends to see Space Tech Talk where she's like, I can't drive you.

Sort of have to get that out of the way, right?

And then there's the scene where they're looking up at the sky, which is like just over and over again in this movie, Lynch just sort of tilting the camera up to the sky, right?

And that's where he's kind of like, I got to do this on my own.

And why can't she drive him?

What's the, what was her excuse?

She, she doesn't have a license or whatever, right?

It's like, it's just kind of, it's not in her ability, I think, is

why we're being told that.

And then he starts driving and you're like, great, movie's starting.

And then the fucking tractor breaks down like five miles.

But it's also the thing of like,

I think he knows the statement only lands a certain way if his brother immediately clocks what he had to do to get there.

Right?

It's the like he needs to speak through action.

And like ordering an Uber

is not going to have the same effect on Harrisine Stanton.

And I get like, why can't he take a bus?

I think I back up the same point.

I mean, he says something about that at one point, and you realize, all right, this guy seriously is stubborn.

That's something like, I don't like someone else to drive me.

Right.

I don't trust them bus drivers.

And he, then he goes to John Deere.

He sees my beloved Everett McGill, one of my favorite Lynch actors, favorite actors, really.

Great presence.

And I love that he's just like, look, I know it's small, but the guts are good right like that's his pitch on the uh on the tractor and also like this is i can give it a personal endorsement and this is my own vehicle everett mcgill is just such a

again perfect like fit for this kind of story so wonderful twice i've been on twin peaks as well do you like ever mcgill i'm just looking up who ever mcgill is you'll recognize him

although are you a big are you a twin peaks person Not really.

Right.

Yeah, I see.

So that's.

I haven't seen the new Twin Peaks, the new, new, whatever, the third season.

I definitely need to see the whole thing, but I need to watch it with somebody because it's too scary.

It's very scary.

Oh, sure.

Everett McGill.

Oh, yeah, he should play Sam Beckett.

Oh, he'd be an amazing.

That's a good credit.

Incredible.

Ben, you're watching Twin Peaks right now.

Oh, my God.

It's so good.

Season three, to be clear.

Yeah, the return.

It fucking rules.

I just watched episode eight last night.

Griff, we're recording our first episode next week, so you're going to start watching next Wednesday or something like that.

That sounds about right.

Are you going to cover it episode by episode?

We're breaking it into big chunks, chunks, but it's a big, unwieldy project to tackle.

It's exciting, though, to know why we broke it off into its own episode.

You're seeing, you're, you are now co-signing David's strategy.

You saw episode eight.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You can't really, uh,

it just, yeah, you can't.

That needs to be its own episode.

That's right.

Um, so the next thing that happens is, uh, yeah, is the fireside conversation with the girl.

Well, while he's on the road after he gets the tractor, which is, yeah,

like

he's going to form

short, brief, quiet, human,

100%.

Which, like, when's that bad?

You know, when a movie has this structure, even if it's like kind of a prosaic structure or whatever, you're just like, this is great.

Kind of always into it.

I can't wait to meet all these people.

Like, that movie Bones and All.

Did you see Bones and All?

I saw Bones and All.

Did you see Bones and All?

I heard it was bad and all.

It's not very good.

I didn't like that movie very much.

Bones and all, I would say.

There's stuff in it I love.

There was stuff that worked for me.

I think the stuff that worked for me the most.

The bones are good.

It's got good bones.

It kind of has that thing of like, it's a road trip movie.

So once in a while, they pop in with someone, like the sort of David Gordon Green segment.

Right.

That's the stuff I like the most.

Where you're like, well, this is fascinating.

And then it's like, well, now we're moving on to the next thing.

Right.

And then the next thing is maybe not so interesting.

Right.

I was a little less into the sort of lovers on the run plotting.

Yeah, the sort of forehead touching.

There's a lot of forehead touching in that movie.

But, you know, like anytime a movie has that structure, you have this sort of relief of like, well, if I'm not into this,

they're going to hit the road again.

And then maybe they'll run into some character actor I like or something.

And it's just, that's the kind of shit I love is like, oh my God, this person's showing up and for five minutes, they're going to get to hit a fucking Homer, you know?

Like the joy of watching a movie like this is hoping that you're going to enter like a Hall Holbrook into the wild pocket.

That's another movie that we both really like.

I think we're really big suckers for this.

Yes.

Yeah.

But that magic of like when you get to that chunk of the movie and you're like, holy shit, something like The Beatrice Strait maybe would be it for this movie.

Totally.

Yeah.

Which could be a mod, that could be an audition monologue.

Yes.

It's a great set piece.

Who is the actual actress?

Because I remember like in my mind's eye, I was like, oh, I'm going to re-watch this and realize it's someone

very established who I just didn't know when I was young.

Like the only actors I know in this are Farnsworth Space Tech, Stanton McGill, and then the Farley brothers.

And that's it.

Like, I, you know, the other names are unfamiliar to me and don't even largely don't even have like a Wikipedia link or whatever.

You know, it's like they're, they're not big actors.

But you're right, Dan.

Like, you could do that as like a fucking actor studio audition.

A lot of this stuff you could.

And yet,

this isn't a movie where you're like, what a plum set of actors, you know, like of

actee performances.

It more feels like it's about, no, this is about Alvin and the road

and like people speaking plainly to each other and, you know, what's left unsaid and things like that.

I don't know.

The dear woman, in case anybody knows her,

is named Barbara E.

Robertson.

Okay.

And she is credited as the dear woman.

And I have not heard of a single other title she's ever made, although she was in a movie with the fantastic title Adventures in the Sin Bin.

Oh, I'm familiar with that movie.

I have you seen it?

Audition for that movie.

Are you kidding?

That is like a modern teenage spiritual remake of uh the apartment in which bo burnham has a van that he loans out to cooler kids at high school to fuck in the back of bo burnham good lord and then and that's the sin bin the van that's the sin bin the titular sin bin and then much like in the apartment it turns out that one of the cool kids he hates is taking the girl he has a crush on to the bin and then yes

How would your life have been different if you'd gotten that part in the sin bin movie?

I wouldn't be here hosting blank check.

i'd be having a mental breakdown during the pandemic and selling it to netflix

a really really well edited and put together mental breakdown uh barbara robertson seems like she's mostly like a big uh chicago uh

actor is on uh uh whatchamacallit uh somebody somewhere which people love and i have not watched on max the bridget ever show

yeah that people really like she's in many episodes of that cool uh in searching for her on here

uh jane galloway heights who is hets is the woman who, the tanning woman at the beginning of the film, before launching her own professional acting career, Jane Galloway Heights was a casting agent in Chicago.

She helped launch the careers of Steve Carell, Stephen Colbert, Eric Stone Street, and Richard Kind.

Those are some big names.

Yeah, Anastasia Webb is the name of the actress who plays the runaway, you know, at the fire.

Everyone's great.

A bundle of sticks.

Barry Blair Witch.

Yes.

1999.

But it is, there is a fascinating thing about watching this movie 25 years later and not having that be like, oh, shit, this is her first movie.

And then she went on to be

as much as a lot of these people you like wish they went on to bigger careers, there's something that in a weird way retains the purity of this movie.

Yeah, well, they feel like non-professional actors in the best way, right?

As if they were these fines, you know, almost Dardenn style, right?

Or one of those kind of social realist.

directors who casts unknowns.

So so much so that when Harry Dean Stanton shows up at the end, it's sort of like, wait a second, it was Harry Dean Stanton all the time.

But it's so

impactful not to jump all the way to the end because it's like he's going to be on screen for all of 30 seconds and the hammer blow is going to be them barely saying anything.

You need to reveal him and immediately have the audience go, I get it.

I get everything.

I can map the entire history of these two guys.

I understand who he is if he's a Harry Dean Stanton type.

And like he gets the fucking and in the the billing, you're like, deserved it.

Like, you're like, this could have been fucking Force Awakens.

They paid Harry Dean Stanton five million dollars to show up for 30 seconds at the end, and it was worth it.

Does he happen?

Does he show up in Force Awakens?

What if he'd been the Max Fonstein?

Mark Hamill famously got $5 million for the final 30 seconds of Force Awakens.

And I'm like, hey, you gotta be fucking Mark Hamill.

He dropped that hood well.

That's what he asked him to do.

It's impactful.

So what else happens?

Well, I wanted to say, it's so funny.

We meet the deer woman cut to he's eaten that damn deer that what is that gag because it's it's that thing always

from a living animal to like someone gnawing on a big juicy bone what's they doing last generation

yes but it's it's like

there's like a context there should be a name we should know what like the old vaudeville shorthand is for that type of joke is that is it called a flopsy or something like what's what's the industry term for?

Like, where it's like, oh, there's this

living thing, or even just like, huh, I wonder what's going to happen.

And then it's like, hard cut munching.

I mean, one thing that implies is that he went on the road with butchery tools.

Yeah.

Right?

Like, he was thinking ahead in case a dead deer came along.

This is one of those food on your way where everything they don't explain.

makes the movie more interesting where you're like so wait a second like what did he or didn't he bring I really would have loved a tour, like as a featurette, a tour of the rig, you know, in the back of the rig.

It's this kind of like, it's like a TikTok video, like, get ready with me.

I'm the, I'm the lawnmower guy.

I wake up every day.

I make sure to put my antlers onto my, there's my meat cleaver.

I mean, talking about us both being suckers for this kind of like pica-esque journey character actor showcase thing.

I also just love this kind of like elliptical storytelling where the movie is not constantly like keeping you uh in track of what the timeline is or what the distance is or anything.

And you're just sort of like, I don't know what has happened in between the two scenes I just watched.

It's like after the

runaway, there's a scene where he hides out from the rain in a barn, which is just a nice kind of chill.

You're like, yeah, this is nice.

The rain all around him.

He's under shelter.

Then there's the bikes.

him like waving to the bikers.

Yeah.

Going like, ah, you crazy bikers.

Then there's the dear lady.

Right.

Right.

But I'm like, as a 10-year-old, I'm seeing that moment with the bikers and I'm like, oh, and now he's going to go to a biker bar.

He's going to dance tequila on top of the bar.

Like, I was like, there's going to be some peewee-esque, funny comedy of contrasts, him hanging out with biker shit.

It's like, no, it's just a tiny moment.

Just a little moment.

And then I would say the film's sort of.

you know, high octane, fast and furious sequences when he's going downhill and it's a little too fast and his brakes don't work and there's the house on fire.

But also leads to this this cul-de-sac that is like the movie's sort of Hal Holberg equivalent of this guy being like, can I help you out?

Do you want to just stay put and like, you know, come on, like you can get kind of get better, like, right?

Get right.

Or let me drive you.

And that's, I feel like the scene where you come closest to understanding why he's not taking the bus, why he's not doing X, Y, or Z, where he just kind of plainly says to the guy, like, this is how I got to do it.

There's the scene where he wants to make the phone call and he won't go in the guy's house.

Yes.

And that also feels like kind of a dignity thing of like, right?

Like of just like, I want to have this conversation privately.

I don't want to intrude.

I don't know, Dana, what you make of all this stuff.

I love that.

His whole encounter with that couple that, you know, where he has to stop and fix the tractor for a while.

It's just, it's, it's such a great moment in the movie because it's, it's another glimpse into something that isn't peripatetic, right?

Like a whole universe that has the Olson twins.

Yeah.

Um, that has the marriage between the dude and his wife who makes the world's best brownies, right?

And she has that moment of saying, I knew you'd drive him.

That's why I married you.

Like, it's just this sweet little vignette of a world that he visits, but he's not of it, you know?

And I think that's why he can't go in the house in a way, you know?

It's almost like it would be like eating the food of the dead in the underworld or something.

You know what I mean?

He can't be trapped.

There's this, like, it feels like this very quick, profound emotional.

connection and like understanding and respect between the three of them and like even emotional attachment.

But they are,

they have an openness with their emotions and ability to explain themselves in a way that's like still a little foreign to him, you know?

Like there is,

they are so outwardly kind and explain why, what they're going to do and why.

They have no right ulterior motive here or anything.

They're just worried about his welfare.

Yes.

And that's not how this guy operates or thinks.

It's not that he's then frightened by it or threatened by it, but there is, as you're saying, this feeling of like, I can't, this isn't the world I exist in.

I can't be here forever.

Yeah, it's too much comfort, right?

It's too much.

They're sort of trying to welcome him in a way that he doesn't want to be welcomed.

He wants to have this moment of solitude and exploration.

And I know we're hopping all around, but like, it is what is so profound about the Teenage Runaway sequence for me is like, oh, here's him.

And that is the section of the movie that comes closest to kind of the conventional, more Oscar Beatty version of this movie where you have the bundle of sticks and you have him really kind of explaining sissy spasic and all this sort of shit.

Him opening up.

It is the one person he is the most open with.

And it's because he's come across the one person who is more closed off than he is.

And for her, it's like circumstantial.

It is not as much a clear, like burned in way of life.

It almost feels like he is oversharing with her to try to push her out of making a series of decisions like whatever came between him and his brother that then will trap her for decades.

Do you think she goes back to her family?

Is that what the sticks mean?

I think she does eventually.

Or she at least absorbed his message.

Right.

Or the Blair Witch got her.

This is also possible.

It's 1999.

That's what I'm saying.

Blair Witch coming.

After the sequences we've been talking about is

the bar conversation with the fellow veteran,

which is another

thing that you don't see enough of in movies.

Now it would be almost trite, but like then it's still like, these are, there's still lots of World War II veterans who are alive and old.

And

it's a pre-PTSD, they, you know, came out of the army in a sort of pre-like, you should deal with the fact that this happened to you era.

Instead, it was just like, come back to, you know, America, raise a family, try not to talk about it too much, go to the VFW sometimes.

I'm not saying generalized, but the vast majority of these guys either like completely self-emolated and broke down or just like shut off parts of themselves.

You know, like they either just kind of locked it down and were like, I am fine and I never need to talk about it, or they spiraled.

And it's like there is this, I keep using the word profound, but it's what this movie is of these two guys just being able to kind of nod at each other.

And tell these like really brutal stories because they know they will relate.

Right.

And the way they would have to tell the story to anyone else who wasn't there is the way they never want to talk about the experience.

That person would just be like, oh my God, oh, that's crazy.

I don't know what to make of it.

They don't want to turn it into a listen to my trauma.

Here's what haunts me kind of thing.

They want to just be like, I need to just kind of clear the gutter out for a second.

I mean, that's what I...

love about Mad Men, a story that's so similar to the straight story in so many ways.

But like that's very straight story.

Where you're just like, the thing people don't remember, right, or grapple with enough about that generation is like, is that very early on in Madman when Don is with Roger and Roger's like, yeah, I was in the war.

I don't want to talk about it.

I just want to drink as many of these as possible.

Yeah.

Until I first see why,

yes, exactly.

Why is everyone bothering me?

Like, that is what we're going to be doing.

Like, that's, that's, that's how we're going to approach this.

Right.

And that's sort of what Don is doing in a more extreme way.

I don't know.

Dana, what do you make of all of this?

Yeah, I mean, the revelation that he's sober because he previously had a drinking problem after the war, right?

That would be in most movies, in almost every version of this story, that would be some sort of climactic revelation or something that people would talk about behind his back, you know, and sort of their worries about whether he was going to make it.

Is he going to fall off the mower?

And it's just part of it.

I mean, again, it's just, it's Richard Farnsworth is a huge part of it.

That kind of hard won wisdom so clearly actually exists in his body, you know, and is a part of his actual lived experience.

And feels like him breathing.

Yeah.

I mean, and

when you go back to that the sort of like activation of this movie story is his friends at the bar being alarmed by the fact that he didn't show up you're like so this guy's been sober for that long and he goes to the bar every single day and stays planted there for eight hours and he doesn't drink You know, like, I don't think he's like ordering a fucking mock tail.

Like, presumably, it's just like, well, this is the one space.

Like, it's the equivalent of his like

like therapy group you know even if he has enough self-control to know that he should not drink anymore it's like well this is the one place where i can sit in a line next to a couple other stoic men we don't have to make eye contact they are lubricated and we either can say what we need to say that we couldn't say to anyone else or can sit in silence and not say anything And you're

when you just do that math of how much time this guy has spent sitting at bars watching people drink and not drinking himself and also not having some crisis of feeling tempted to pick up the bottle or anything.

Well, I mean, the moment that he has the beer, right?

In a lesser movie, we'd be worried that he'd get off the wagon at that moment, but that doesn't even occur to you at that point because you know who he is.

You know who he is.

And this guy knows who he is so strongly.

Like that is what this movie is conveying to us more than anything of like, God, this guy has some like at first somewhat inscrutable sense of self, but it is so firm and developed.

But he's got this deep guilt too, right?

I mean, both about the friendly fire incident, like the story that he does tell about World War I is in a way even more horrifying than the other guy's story because the other guy's story, well, it involves more deaths, but he didn't cause them, right?

And because this, this hero, you know, inadvertently shot someone from his own side, he's lived with that guilt all that time.

And then clearly whatever happened between him and Harry Dean, right, which we never get any details of, that's the big thing he has to fix, you know, while he's still on Earth.

but my read has always been that like what happened between him and harry dean was probably meaningless

it was some right like miscommunication or falling out or not being able to kind of have a conversation about something a manifestation of whatever tension they had had building for decades at that point their entire lives but they probably had an argument about something stupid and then both guys were too proud to ever apologize and call each other on the phone and they don't live in the same place right yeah and that's it right and it has just lingered yeah

and when he all right so i mean the next thing he does, obviously, is he enters his goth era and goes to a camp in a cemetery.

Of course.

And that's where the priest comes out.

And the priest is like, yeah, I know your brother.

He's never mentioned having a brother.

Like, I know who you're talking about.

These movies often have a priest.

Right, Road movies?

Some heart-to-heart with a guy in a collar.

You need a quick priest.

Yeah.

Well, I love, love, love a priest combo.

Who plays the priest?

This is the thing.

All these people are so good.

He is really good.

And feel like one of one unique to this film.

Yeah, I mean, like the Farley brothers being another great example.

Uh,

names John Lorden, yeah, he's barely in any movies.

I mean, this is a movie where you scroll across the IMDb, and most of the primary actors don't have photos, yeah.

They really, I think they really found a lot of local actors and stuff, and that must have just sort of been the approach after they found their sort of few leads, yeah.

Well, especially, I do feel like

with Farnsworth being so natural and honest and kind of simple in his performance style,

if he was surrounded by more recognizable people throughout the entire movie and people who had more baggage in history, you know, like it helps to have Spacek in that position.

It helps to have Stanton for such a quick moment.

But it's nice that like everyone is a little unknown to you where you're watching them and trying to understand these people at the same time that he is.

But like the big challenge this movie, the movie shouldn't work in a way because it's about a taciturn man, taciturn, taciturn, taciturn, Jesus.

And yet so much of the movie is driven by him running into a random person and kind of unspooling a little more monologue, right?

Like, let me tell you a story.

And like the first chunk of this movie, you're like, this is not the kind of guy to share.

And then yet every other part of the movie is him sharing a little bit with a stranger.

And you get that it's the strangers almost help him open up, right?

Because it's like a more comfortable person to talk to, but it's all Farnsworth making that work, I think.

And if it's Paul Newman, it's that jokey scene in Wayne's World 2, where like,

you know, the guy's giving like a speech and they're like, can we get someone to give like a real monologue?

And they bring in Charlton Hesson and Charlton Hesson does like the monologue of like, yeah, how to get to the next place they're going.

Yeah.

Where you just sort of see, I love Paul Newman.

He's one of my favorite screen actors ever.

But you can see him kind of squinting into the middle distance and looking so goddamn handsome and like, you know, just being like, yeah, me and my brother, we used to play in the yard.

And you're like, yeah, he's sure he's, he's handy.

But the fascinating thing of like, I could see there being a great Gregory Peck version of this movie.

I could see there being a great Paul Newman version of this movie.

I couldn't see either guy fitting in with Lynch.

I know Peck was the only one who ever talked about doing it with Lynch.

Newman tried to do it himself.

Right.

Like, yeah.

But I also don't think either of those movies in their best execution could be anywhere close to what this is.

Dana, what do you think?

Yeah.

I mean, it's just, it's Richard Farnsworth again.

It's like the moment that they got him, that's when the movie started to make sense.

Of course, it's also the writing.

Like all of these scenes that we're talking about, if they were not so sparsely and beautifully written and thought through, right?

The bundle of sticks could be corny.

Yes.

The World War II revelations could be incredibly corny.

It would be so easy to be mad at this movie for exactly for all that stuff of like, okay, now it's time for this part of the movie.

Now it's time to learn a tragedy.

Heartwarming lessons, right?

There's something about, I feel like...

Tuesdays with Mari shit right like say this is jack lemon yes you know being like oh let me tell you a story you're like okay jack lemon why don't you go ride on a paris wheel or whatever tuesdays with mari by the way any of those three guys if they had done this might have won another off sure exactly like it might have been something if it was paul newman people across america weep

and was like a crossover sensation and would not have aged as well whereas this is one of the like most incredible marriage of actor and part i have ever seen and i think there's something to he himself being resistant to the idea of doing any movie again.

And as you said, like how much of it is also the writing, this thing passing his bullshit sniff test sets the movie on a like a correct course.

That they wrote it well enough for him to even feel like it was a little undeniable that he should do it means that it spoke to something in him that is clearly very reflective of the character.

which then allows him to tap into something that makes this performance feel so powerful of of like, this is the exact amount this guy would talk.

Every time he does open up, and it's a little surprising, it is just the right amount that is earned.

I love how all of the characters that come in contact with Alvin have this quiet respect for him and even respect his stubbornness.

Yeah.

You know, there's something about his energy where it just immediately everyone

is

just able to honor that this is just how this man is.

But also, don't you think if you came across this guy in real life, you'd have the exact same response?

You'd be like,

who am I to tell this guy?

This guy has some set of answers that are unknown to me.

I'm jealous

of this quiet respect.

I feel like my life right now, I get loud contempt.

You're not getting Alvin straight respect.

No.

I get no respect.

This movie is all

this for a G-rated movie, Dr.

Vinnie Boombats, even doesn't get any respect?

No, not even Vinny.

What about your wife, though?

Your wife, surely, when you get home, must give you respect.

I got to tell you, she doesn't.

She asked if you want to be on top or bottom.

She says top so you hide underneath the bed.

I fucked up that joke, but it's something like that.

My mom didn't breastfeed me.

She said she liked me as a friend.

That is one of my favorites.

Dana, we've talked a lot on this podcast over the years.

Not constantly, but it will come up across nearly 10 years.

What if this was Rodney Dangerfield on the tractor?

now that could be you know what i gotta go see my brother i'm not saying it would have been as good as the film where it got but i will say it is the only other version of this movie i wish i could see my mom didn't breastfeed me she uh no my mom breastfeed me threw a straw or something that's another one he did his lot of my mom breastfed me anyway every once in a while we find ourselves in a dangerfield cul-de-sac and we basically just remember like rodney dangerfield is the funniest person who ever lived he's very very and dr vinny bumbatz is maybe the greatest comedic i can go see see my Dr.

Dr.

Vinny Bumbatz.

Do you like Rodney Dangerfield or do you have no opinion on this?

I think I have no opinion.

I've only seen him do characters in movies.

I don't think I've ever even seen a studio.

You're saying you don't really give him any respect.

Yeah.

Seeing him on Carson or whatever, you know?

He fell into a not my generation and not being revived for my generation hole for me.

Yeah, he was, you were probably kind of in between.

Right.

He was, he was kind of corny by the time.

Right.

You know, there was, there was cooler comedy like sort of happening when you were right

that age.

I wonder what a doctor.

He told me, I told him I got a ringing on his.

He said, don't answer it.

You're just on classic garage.

I just googled Vinny Boombat.

Should I be Dr.

Vinny Boombats for Halloween?

Sure.

I don't know what he looks like.

Good costume.

Right?

To just get a fucking doctor costume from Spirit Halloween and then write Boombots on your name tag.

It would be good.

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This movie for a G-rated movie could be a great commercial for beer because when he rolls up to that bar and says he wants a cold beer, suddenly you're like, There's nothing more refreshing than a cold beer out of a bottle.

Like, you know, just a regular ass Budweiser out of a fridge.

yes doesn't he go miller he goes for miller i'm just saying any just like you give me any beer a cold beer that's all i want to order there's similarly in margaret there is one of the phone call conversations with kenneth lonergan as her father she asks how he's doing he's he says something to the effect of uh doing well you know i just i went to work and now i'm back home having a nice cold glass of beer and every time i hear that i'm just like i want to drink so badly the way he says it in his like gentle Lonergan tone.

Sometimes a movie just hits something like that where I'm like, oh my God, is beer better than water?

It kind of is.

I actually appreciate that there's a brand name checked there.

I don't know what went behind that, but it's always, especially on TV, but in movies too, everybody will go to a bar and say, I'll have a beer.

Right.

And no questions are asked.

Harry and Dean.

The next thing is just the beautiful coda of the film, him riding down this dirt road, the tractors in front of him,

and then just going to see Harry Dean Stanton, who's in, who has a walker.

So, you know, he's a little over.

For having had a stroke, though, Harry Dean is looking good.

He doesn't have a droopy face.

No, no, he can walk with his walker.

He talks normally.

Not droopier than normal.

He's got his figure a little.

Well, both sides are equally droopy.

A lot, Harry.

They're very plausible brothers.

Those guys were six years apart in age.

Like they're of a similar generation.

It's just that Harry Dean Stanton lived to be a thousand years old.

Right.

Spiritually makes perfect sense.

Makes sense within like tying this the larger lynch Cannon.

I will admit this.

I just saw Paris, Texas for the first time ever.

You never saw it.

I know you went to the future.

And

cinematic blind spot of me.

For me.

Yeah.

And it's had a very long-run restoration

playing at IFC, and I think playing a lot of places across the country.

Lovely movie.

But a movie that does feel a little spiritually linked to this.

I do feel like that's silence, sky.

Yeah.

You know, a lot of things happening just on people's faces.

But, you know, I had re-watched this for when we were going to record with Para before you so rudely decided to have twins, like two months ago, three months ago now?

Yeah, close to three months ago.

And then re-watched it again for this episode.

And in between those two re-watches, I see Paris, Texas for the first time.

And I was very like knocked down by the effectiveness of, of course, it has to be Faradine Stanton.

Yeah.

I think that was the magic trick at the moment when you don't really know what it's going to be.

Totally.

And then watching it yet yet again after seeing Paris, Texas, you're like, that adds even more to it.

That there is this like totemic film of Harry Dean Stanton wandering around the desert trying to like

not knowing how to explain himself.

So much of that movie, he keeps saying, like, I don't really know what I did to fuck up the marriage.

And you never really learn, right?

He has a monologue where he explains it in a way that still feels, as much as he goes into detail, a little oblique in certain regards.

he he tells it as like a fairy tale to natasha kinski not to spoil paris texas but yes i i just think like there there is some interesting there is some interesting dial dialectic between these two movies that it feels like you get from it being stanton the moment with stance just i mean whatever i i i'd consider stanton for an oscar nomination it truly it is just his his eyes shimmering a little bit and just their faces together and standing up to the side never had more automatic presence than him.

I mean, especially, it just, if I didn't know he was going to be in this movie, and I don't think I did the first time I saw it, it is, it is the closest thing this movie has to just like a total kind of like sort of Trump card.

Like, look at Toby Maguire walking out of the portal.

Like, it's like, holy shit, you're doing that?

It does feel like an awful comparison.

I get incredibly rude to the history of cinema, but it does feel like dimensions are like colliding.

What if it was Toby Maguire in this movie, like Pleasant Villera?

Toby McGuire saying, hey, how you doing?

I forgive you.

You're all right.

Yeah.

Well, and all of that.

Why is he talking so hot?

You gotta work in our Toby.

That sounds like Nikki.

Yeah.

Hi there.

I'd like to buy the straight story.

Toby, you don't own a studio.

Oh, Drewiz, you're right.

Yeah, it's a very simple movie.

It's hard to talk about on this podcast a little bit.

Well, the entirety of their exchange at the end, right?

And what's the brother's name?

Lyle?

Lyle Straight.

Yes.

Yeah.

Like Lyle says, did did you ride that thing all the way from Iowa or whatever, right?

He's just confirming that the trip was entirely made on the mower.

And then I believe the last line of the movie is Alvin saying, I did, Lyle, right?

And then the camera tilts

up to the stars.

Yeah, tilts sort of past their faces up to the stars.

And of course, it's daytime.

Something I noticed too is that

it tilts through time.

It goes

presumably to that evening when they're looking up at the stars.

Did y'all notice how many dissolves there are in this?

Is David Lynch always that mad for the dissolves?

He does like his dissolves.

Yeah, but usually he uses them in a far like dreamier way.

No, but I mean, absolutely, because he loves like in Twin Peaks, like sort of Laura's face, you know, dissolving into some background or whatever.

And like, doesn't the ear at the beginning of this dissolve into whatever comes with that?

It's just sort of an iconic coming apart moment in Mulhan Drive where he dissolves their faces over each other, like going like this.

Oh, yeah, which is like a Bergman persona show.

The dissolves he does are usually more like realities, sort of like meshing, liminal things that are not, yeah, yeah, versus this just being this very like it is in his language, but it's applied in a very different way.

It feels like an old school dissolve a lot of the time, you know, the way Hollywood movies would just use dissolve as a transitional.

And it's what you're saying.

It's like, we know time is passing.

We don't really know how much time is passed, how long this is taking.

We're not going to get like a

day six,

80 miles to go or whatever.

You know, like, we're not going to get that, which I adore.

You don't think there should be like.

yeah, that's what there shouldn't be.

There's also some just fade to black kind of chapter closings.

And it's interesting because you never know when those are going to come.

They don't come after every encounter.

No, no, but often he is right going to sleep outside, essentially.

Yeah.

And you don't know like for how many days, for how many nights.

Right.

You don't know if there are other meetings that you have to do.

There had to be this film.

When he says, I've been on the road for five weeks, it's straight up surprising, right?

It doesn't, you sort of assume that time is basically a day per encounter.

It makes sense spatially, but it doesn't make sense in terms of what you've seen.

There could be an expanded universe where you see all the encounters that you didn't see.

I hope, I hope, Disney through their Marvel Comics imprinted universe, extended universe.

A holographic AI Richard Farnsworth is brought back to life.

Let's do some comic book mini-series filling in the gaps.

No, to your point, what you were saying, I do think even in a movie that is bucking convention so much and staying away from the explosive, you do kind of assume when he gets to his brother, there's going to be a big scene.

Yeah,

something will be acknowledged here.

Right.

And especially when Harry Dean Stanton comes out and you're like, holy shit, they have Stanton.

We're about to like go in the paint.

Like this is going to get wild.

And instead, it's like the only things that need to be said, it's why he was so fucking stubborn about doing it this way.

That Lyle asking him, you came this whole way on this tractor and him going, yep, it's just like, that's all that needs to be done.

And they both have tears in their eyes, right?

I mean, so they've already

broken down whatever the fight was, right?

They like from the moment they would be filing each other, Louis Flyle was like, I don't know, man, I think you owe me 20 bucks.

Like, fuck you.

Sorry, I'm bringing it up.

I want a cashier's check.

Yeah, they just immediately start getting in a fist fight.

You son of a bitch

hitting walkers against canes, Barnes Worth's double caning Darth Maul style.

I came here to kill you.

Have you ever seen The Straight Story?

It's wild.

It ends in one of the greatest fight scenes I've ever seen.

Or the revelation is like, well, I was like, what are you doing here?

I'm so mad at you.

And he's like, why?

I thought we would have gotten over.

He's like, you murdered my wife in cold blood.

You started.

He did something terrible.

No, it's forgiven or forgotten, whatever it is between them.

And like you say, right, the gesture is the whole thing.

It's just, he's there.

I mean, what else was he doing?

Let's be honest.

He might have had a very busy schedule.

Alvin?

Yeah.

Alvin.

Yeah, he's got his.

Is this cinema's best Alvin?

Chipmunk?

Yeah.

I think Alvin kind of sucks.

Yeah, the chipmunk guy.

Can you say this?

Even as a kid who liked the chipmunks, you don't usually like the main one who just tells people what to do.

Like, that's never anyone's favorite character.

No, and I feel like, especially 90s Alvin, where it felt like they tried to reboot him a little bit more in a Bart Simpson vein, it was always a little like, this guy's too much, right?

He's a guy.

This is my, I feel, I'm like, I, power ranking, Simon and Theodore smoke, Alvin.

They're both more interesting.

Absolutely.

The Chibettes are more interesting.

Isn't it just

holding down the fast forward button halfway?

And thus, millions, billions of dollars across

almost a century of media.

Why aren't there adorable creatures that have slowed down?

Dana.

Dana?

Dana, you're looking at the right guy.

Well, that's a very interesting pitch.

This episode's coming out in November.

Bennett's maybe worth just.

What kind of animal?

Turtle.

It would have to be a sloth or something big and slow.

Hippo?

Hippo.

Oh, hippo.

Mo Deng.

Could you get Mo Deng?

He's hot stuff right now.

You can get directly.

You can try.

Yeah.

Do you know about the Slow Christmas project, Dana?

No.

so i've been for the last

would this be volume five this will be technically four because i started with zero but it'll be the fifth release correct okay for five years now i've been putting out a christmas compilation of holiday songs cover songs but the the only thing is it's got to be slow like really slow it's slow x mas and so um this concept you're pitching is really intriguing to me.

Year one was Ben just doing what you're saying, just taking pre-existing recordings of Christmas songs, slowing them way the fuck down.

Yeah.

As they should be.

It has grown to Ben curating a lineup of incredible musicians.

Yeah.

And his only marching orders being play it real fucking slow.

But what he has not been doing up until this point is creating proprietary characters within the unit.

I've considered this.

This is huge news.

This is humongous.

Wow.

You have a little lead time at the time we're recording this.

Oh, yeah.

I have at least two weeks to put this together.

We should have some Moondang's reps.

We should probably box up a skin, but is there anything else we want to say about the straight story?

Have you guys ever been on a road trip?

Yeah.

Yeah, sure.

I have.

Yeah.

I love road trip.

I'd love to do like a true like America road trip.

What I never really did that.

I did like a kind of a mini one where I drove throughout like the southeast.

I did a two-week California to New York.

Really?

Yeah.

Oh, that's cool.

Which is great.

Here's my favorite thing about road trips: tricking my friends into driving me across the country.

Yeah, I was going to say, you are not.

You know what you should do?

We should do a road trip.

The best go to rent a car place.

Suddenly, clock wait.

One of the three people here is never going to fucking take a shift.

We're just chauffeuring our buddy across America.

Well, what do you do to help with the trip?

Are you good at like

great company?

Snacks.

Yeah, sure.

Curation.

Yeah.

Okay.

Pitch in for my share of gas, take a bunch of naps in the backseat because I don't ever got to take a fucking flux seat shift.

You ever been on a road trip, Dana?

Oh, plenty.

I mean, I grew up in Texas.

You grew up in Texas.

You don't get anywhere.

You got to drive real far.

You're driving.

But you know, the actual part of the country I most want to take a road trip in and have not seen is exactly this.

I've never done like the northern west, you know, like where you drive through John Ford, you know, Monument Valley territory and stuff like that.

Mount Rushmore.

I've never seen that.

I really want to go to the Badlands.

That's for whatever reason.

What a surprise.

But they don't have like a desolate landscape.

They don't have like a bad attitude, though.

It's not like, you know, like Taz is there.

They're not bad, like cool.

Wait,

other 90s, you know, sort of anti-heroes.

You're telling me that nature won't say, fuck you.

It's all like the Badlands.

Yeah.

The Straight Story Griffin came out on October 15th, 1999.

Oh, I'm sorry.

The box office game is presented, should I say?

Yes.

By our friends at Regal.

Our friends at Regal.

There you go.

Sorry.

Still getting used to that.

Talk about a movie that would play well in 4DX.

Can you imagine?

25th anniversary, re-release the straight story, and you're on the fucking tractor with him.

It's diesel.

Yeah.

It sticks.

You're smelling the bundle.

There's so many good scents.

There's Braun Schweiger.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's firewood.

Yeah.

There's rain.

When they open the cold beer, you can get a little spray.

I'm not even joking.

This is a perfect 4DX movie.

I don't think this is like

sacrilegious to suggest.

I'm going to pitch it.

David Lynch.

I'm getting Lynch on the horn.

Putting him in one of those seats showing him like Aquaman 2 and being like, so this, but the straight story.

Yeah, here's what I predict.

I call Lynch.

I start pitching him.

He goes, I know what 4DX is.

You don't need to pitch it to me.

Twisters was a revelation.

The film opened in limited release.

And I just say by the way, I'm sorry.

I just feel like we we haven't brought this up, but Ben was in LA and texted you and I at like two o'clock in the morning, our time.

He was drunk with Eva Anderson, our dear friend of the show, recent guest, past and future guest.

And the text was just paper moon and 40x.

And then the two of them drunkenly just started making the pitch.

I think you said bad car.

Imagine the bad car.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think it's a good idea.

Hot dogs?

Sure.

Coney Islands and Ehays?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Anyway, sorry.

Box office game brought to you by our friends at Regal, who hopefully are listening.

Their ears are burning and they're working out a deal to put Straight Story in their 40x screens.

October 15th, 1999, Griffin.

We've done this box office game before.

Oh, yeah.

Wow.

Okay.

Yes.

Of course.

An iconic 1999 film opening to an underwhelming $11 million.

Hmm.

At number one.

Is that the movie we've covered before?

Huh.

Is it Fight Club?

It's Fight Club.

What was the widest this movie ever went?

The Straight Story?

Yeah.

Well, it's opening on seven screens, and it looks like it got all the way to about 200 screens.

Okay.

Yeah.

And what did it end up at?

It made $6 million domestic.

Okay.

And $30,000 internationally.

Oh, this movie didn't appeal to audiences overseas.

Interesting.

It's a very American story.

Yeah, sure.

I still do think that's rude.

Yeah, that is rude.

Fight Club, Dana.

How do you feel about Fight Club?

You a Fight Club fan?

fan i have no desire to revisit fight club i think i think all the things that yeah for one thing it's a first time only right it's got the big reveal at the end and then the second watch is not the same thing

but i think that the

the bro culture it inspired has by now turned me off so much that i have no desire to

our episode where we wrestle with exactly that were they angry with us i think so but also that was an episode where we thought ARP was going to come in and make the great case and we could sit back and take a vacation.

And then instead instead he came in and was like, I'm suddenly wrestling with this movie.

Right.

It's a little bit to me, it's a very different movie, but like Memento, when Memento came out, there was a certain kind of guy, right, who just like thought it was the deepest and greatest movie in the world and it was such a masterpiece.

And we like that guy.

We love that guy.

I do think that Memento has been helped.

Yes.

David's waving is that guy from Memento.

I thought I was 15 years old, though.

I don't know if I was that guy.

I think Memento

has been helped.

I'll admit it, but I have been since, yes, similarly reckoned with it.

I think the Nolan cult becoming so humongous has helped Memento in a way.

Whereas like Fincher kind of never made a movie like Fight Club again, so Fight Club is its own thing.

I feel like

Nolan splintered into people who wished that he had stayed making that type of movie and people who love the whole thing and are now like he is our one true living cinema god,

where I think it takes some of the obsession off of Memento in a way that makes it a little easier to watch now as its own thing and be like, oh, this is just great.

Yeah, I admire Memento.

It's cool.

It's a neat idea that's well executed.

You know, it's a great spare minimalist kind of noir story.

Great performances.

Yeah.

Number two at the box office.

Great tattoo movie.

Incredible Hall of Fame tattoo movie.

Absolutely.

Number two at the box office is a

crime thriller.

They don't make them like this anymore that had been number one at the box office for three weeks, makes 116

September.

Yep.

Was it Double Jeopardy?

Double Jeopardy.

Yeah.

Ashley Judd, Tommy Lee Jones, and she did some Double Jeopardy or whatever.

She's what, framed for killing her husband, and then it turns out her husband's still alive and she gets out and she kills him or something.

I'm not going to dig into this, but I've weirdly, for the last month or so, been in a YouTube courtroom rabbit hole watching real cases.

You got to stop doing that right now.

I'm just going to tell you to shut that right down.

David, you saw the breath I took.

the exhale before I revealed this because I knew what you were sponsored.

Joker didn't just turn you right off of that.

Look, you guys are, you should be grateful I did not get into my whole take in the Joker episode relative to one of the cases I've been watching a lot.

I had it locked and loaded and I said the mature thing to do is not even open this box.

But I was going to say, I keep seeing people try to throw out double jeopardy in court.

A misunderstood legal term.

And judges are like doing everything they can to not say, it's not the fucking trailer you saw.

Yeah, it's not the one sentence definition.

That's not how this works.

I have no memory of Double Jeopardy, but it was such a hit.

I have the memory of seeing the trailer and going, holy shit, that's insane.

That's how the law works.

I don't think I ever saw it, but I miss that kind of movie.

I miss that kind of middlebrow legal thriller.

It's a whole great.

Yes.

And was like a blockbuster.

And Ashley Judd obviously was a leading proponent in this moment.

Owned a genres that now we just don't have anymore.

Number three at the box office is a big, goopy sort of rom dramedy with two major movie stars that was a kind of a flop.

Is it Sweet November?

No.

Which I did not know until recently was directed by Joan Chen.

Sweet November was directed by Pat O'Connor.

I'm sorry, what's the other one?

Autumn in New York.

Autumn in New York is directed by Joan Chen.

Joan Chen.

Yeah, you're right.

Isn't that wild?

Those are the right.

Autumn in New York is Gear Winona.

Right.

Sweet November is Kiana.

Keanu Charles.

And I think both,

at least one has a sort of terminal illness.

I think both do.

Maybe both do.

It's the I love you, but you're dying.

Yes.

Exactly.

They both have that.

They came out around the same time and they both were lambasted.

Yeah.

That's not what this is.

This is like a story of a marriage.

Is it the story of us?

Yes.

Well,

you gave me too many other words.

No, I'm sorry.

Written by

Rob Reiner directed it and Alan Zwaibel wrote it.

Alan Zwibel wrote that?

Well, he also wrote North.

Yeah, there you go.

Do we need to blame Alan Zwibel for Rob Reiner's career downturn?

Maybe.

Did he enter a Zwaibel era that he never came out of?

He also wrote the book North.

Like the book that North was based on.

Yes.

He also, have you ever read or seen a production of Alan Zwibel's Bunny Bunny?

A play he wrote about how he didn't date Gilda Radner?

No.

So weird work.

Have you ever seen The Story of Us?

I had never had it.

No, I never have.

Dana, have you even heard of the story of us?

I've been a little tempted to check it out now in a sort of like Bruce retrospective way.

Yeah, like hunts interesting.

That was a swerve for him at the time.

He just did a kind of tender,

realistic, emotional.

The reaction at the time was so like, eh.

People were really against it, but I love him and Pfeiffer.

Sure.

I don't think it's a secret masterpiece, but I'm like, maybe I'll be touched by the shit.

I'll check it out.

If we had known that Pfeiffer was about to disappear for disappointment, this is kind of the end of her movie stardom for a while, yeah, right, because it's like this, then white oleander is like, where's she been?

And then she becomes very intermittent.

And Bruce, I feel like, enters a long period of not trying anything like this again.

Well, it's the same year as the Sixth Sense.

And so he becomes like a such, you know, it's such a whatever, another boost to his like A-list star, you know, so he does mostly that stuff.

Look, number four at the box office is a war film.

A war film in 1999.

It's not

a rules of engagement.

It's not Enemy at the Gates.

I'm a little early on both of those, right?

I think those are later, yeah.

Can you say which war?

Well, that's spoil it.

The Gulf War.

Is it Three Kings?

Yeah, kind of spoils it.

Yep.

David O'Russell's Three Kings, a movie I loved at the time, have not seen in years.

Yeah.

Obviously, somewhat tinged by the fact that David O'Russell is such a tough customer.

That's a way to put it.

Such a big jerk.

Yeah.

But I remember it being very cool at the time, like being kind of impressed by Three Kings.

It is an explosive piece of film directing.

Right.

Like kind of undeniable.

Very, very brash, slick, crazy.

Yeah, and I don't say that backhandedly.

Like, I don't think it's a style of or substance movie, but it is kind of undeniable of like, oh, my God, this guy is just really going for it and pulling it off.

But also getting punched on

set in the face by his leading men.

For being a jerk.

Yeah.

What do you think of Three Kings and or David O.

Russell, Dina?

In that era, I was very into David O.

Russell.

I love Flirting.

Flirty with Disaster, an amazing movie.

And you can switch genres.

I'm a big fan of iHard Huckabees.

Like, I like when he goes down with that.

Yep.

I mean, there really is.

That's kind of the last Russell movie I loved.

Like, I thought The Fighter was like fine, you know.

I liked The Fighter a tremendous amount when it came out.

I do wonder if I rewatched it, if I'd be like,

I think a little bit, because it's what he then just started doing of these like really big, loud, like everyone's yelling at each other.

It's unquestionably the best of that run, right?

But still, is it like, oh, we know the trick so well now?

And he, he rang him dry, where now fighter has less impact.

But yeah, no, I mean,

him doing the jump from flirting with disaster to three kings, it really did feel like, oh, this is the guy.

Number five at the box office.

but then it just sort of disappointed a little bit.

Of course.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Number five at the box office is the film that beat Richard Farnsworth.

Is Kevin Spacey good in American Beauty?

That is the question I think.

That's an interesting question.

Like, is that a good performance?

I think it is.

That character is hiresome.

I was going to say, it is like in a and we don't like to talk about Kevin Spacey.

No, but we're about to do it.

I think it is in a certain way the performance of his that is now the most cursed and tinged by everything we know about Kevin Spacey, it is the one that like

rings the creepiest.

And already, like, within 10 years, people were like, Wait, what's that movie about?

Uh, I've told the story of my sister watching it for the first time five years ago and being like, Can you explain to me what happened here?

Like, what in the culture birthed this?

And why did people respond positively?

Like, she was looking at like it was like a fucking like cave painting.

I don't want it kind of is like that watching it now.

You're

talking about it before.

She's born a year before it comes out and has no sound cultural object for you, like sliver of time.

Like, one of the things that I'm saying, and like a few years later, American Beauty would be like, I don't give a shit about this guy.

Like, I don't know what you don't care.

It's maybe the hardest swerve of any best picture winner in that sense.

Yes, right?

Yes.

And it's also, I just think, like, I, I, I always just feel like that and Shrek are like the two pillars of pre-9-11 cinema in a certain way.

Were you a critic in 1999?

Like, would you have had much?

No, you were, you're too young for that, right?

Like, it's like, I don't know what your,

what your American beauty take would have been in 1999.

I thought it was brilliant when I saw it, but I was 13 years old.

Like, I right.

I saw it on DVD a couple years later and was like, yeah, I get it.

I mean, who can deny?

The power of the plastic bag.

I was probably, yeah, I think the plastic bag probably moved me.

Yeah.

I don't think that this, the, the, you know, kind of pedophilia story even creeped anyone out in those days.

I mean, Election came out that same year.

This movie that I still love.

This movie is saying what people are like, refused to say, which is that, like, poor Gen Xers are horny for teens, I guess.

Right.

You could imagine Molly Sims on a talking head show saying Alan Ball and Sam Mendez said the thing that was underneath the culture that had been waiting to be expressed or something.

I think as a teenager, right, I was just like, yeah, this is about like what grown-ups are like, which is they're all these kind of like weird losers who are obsessed with us young people.

I do remember thinking even wanting to be young again.

I was a little older than you guys, but I do remember thinking at the, even at the time that the movie was mean to Annette Benning's character, just mean to her.

Totally.

You know, like she's just there to be,

she's the haranguing.

She is fantastic in it.

She's amazing.

Her big scene where she freaks out in the house that she's trying to sell.

But I agree with you.

The movie turns her into like a pretty cut and dry, superficial villain.

A little little bit.

It just sort of makes it like, oh, being a frustrated middle-aged man is poetic, but being a frustrated middle-aged woman, that's comic and pathetic.

Right.

And the way it all manifests in her is in ways that are like, um,

feel like attacks on Spacey.

It's like, why are you doing this to me?

You know, there's no sense of like respect for her going on her own journey.

Yeah, I mean, just, yeah, so, so strange as a cultural object, but this is early in its run.

Yeah, it would have come out, well, yeah, about a month ago.

Yeah.

So it's building steam.

Kind of the first.

It's made $41 million.

But it's going to make 130.

Yeah.

Jesus.

As a very long run.

And that's going to come back in 40x too.

The seat vibrates every time something problematic happens.

Just kidding.

Feel like you have an essential tremor.

Seat is just shaking the earth.

You've also got Random Hearts, a big bomb of the year with Harrison Ford,

Superstar, the SNL movie, an era of SNL movies.

Deeply strange movies.

Maybe the strangest of that era.

Directed by Bruce McCullough.

Yeah.

The Sixth Sense,

still three, four months into its crazy run.

Yeah.

Blue Streak, the mediocre Martin Lawrence comedy.

But was a big hit?

A solid hip.

And then a movie called The Omega Code, which is like a really junky.

Is Walking in that?

Am I wrong?

Not seeing Walken.

Michael Ironside, Casper Van Dien, Michael York.

I think it's vaguely biblical.

I think there's some sort of Christian element to it.

It's some apocalyptic end of days

movie.

Yes.

Yes.

Now that would be whatever.

Trump would be screening it on the side of a wall or whatever for everyone.

But yeah.

You sound really excited about the possibility.

Okay.

Yeah, the straight story.

Yeah.

And, you know, it made a little bit of money.

And David Lynch pretty quickly, I think, goes on to start making a project for Disney, which is Mulholland Drive for ABC.

Yeah.

And I have no idea if those two things are really related.

Like, obviously, his association with ABC is with Twin Peaks, but

this is the beginning of the sort of final act of his career.

I do think it, in its small, quiet way, did sort of signal to everyone, like, oh, he's come back down to earth.

Right.

And he's capable of this kind of storytelling still.

Like, it's not all going to be like very aggressive.

The fundamentals

are still in place.

Yeah.

And yeah.

And it sets up this kind of incredible run of the last two decades he has.

What are you thinking, David?

We're done.

I would literally just looking on his Wikipedia at this point, being like, is there anything else we need to say about the straight story?

No, the font on the poster, I don't think was,

I don't think a lot of time was spent on it.

Okay, go on.

It seems like the font that is the first font, it's the default font.

You're saying it's like an aerial?

Yeah.

Like, I'm pretty sure they just typed in the straight story.

We're like, done.

as fits the the title of the movie yeah like let's get to it just straight to it sure yeah yeah but it is kind of a beautiful poster image but it's an incredible poster yeah yeah the the poster itself the silhouette of him on the tractor is pretty sort of magic hour yeah

but no you're right but i think a lot of the lynch movies have that you know i mean certainly like Inland Empire has that just like, here's the title poster.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But that has style to it.

Sure.

It is just just so funny that like the experience of watching this in the context of it being a Disney movie is purely an American experience.

Like this French disc I have doesn't have that versus my previous rewatch had been on Disney Plus.

And there's something just very jarring about this movie starting with like Scott, a shot of starry sky and the big blue letters Walt Disney Productions presents.

And there's a warning.

The only content warning is something about smoking moments.

Yes, well, Disney Plus puts content warnings for like anything like that.

Yeah, yes.

I have to.

But I do think in a certain way, it is the best way to watch the movie.

It's the most interesting context to put around.

It's just my Disney Plus Carousel is all movies I watched with my daughter.

Like, so I just had to be like,

get Cinderella out of here.

Where are we going?

Oh, Straight Story.

There we go.

And now she's watching Straight Story.

You've seen Straight Story 30 times.

I don't think she was.

She points and says, tractor.

No, we're watching our 18th go around on the baby.

I have to say, it is really, truly a mitzvah that you are blank checking David Lynch and doing this movie because I bet there's a lot of Lynch fans who haven't seen it.

You're just saying it's not out on physical media, right?

It's certainly not being pushed on Disney Plus.

I bet there's some people listening who've seen every other David Lynch.

Tiger.

Yes, I think you're right.

And I think people don't even know that it's on Disney Plus in a lot of cases.

And it's also like fully rentable through all legal rental channels.

This is not an illegal movie, right?

Ben, what did you want to say?

I

had a question that I wanted to make sure I asked on this episode.

Have either of you ever mowed a lawn?

Absolutely.

I have absolutely mowed a lawn, yes.

But

do you find either of those answers surprising?

I kind of do, but then I'm,

was this a British?

A British lawn, a garden, or what do they call it lawn?

We didn't really have like a lawn in England.

We did, I lived in a house in England and we did have like a little garden, but it was like, it was not.

Do they call them like sabers of grass

or something?

A A wee garden?

Sabers of grass.

But like, no, my grandma made me mow the lawn.

Like she had, um, she lived in Utica, New York, and she had a little lawn and she had a big back, backyard.

And, uh, and then she had a little house in the Adirondacks.

I mowed that lawn.

And in Connecticut, I've mowed the lawn.

Yeah.

I'm not, I'm not, I don't think I'm very good at it, though.

There's a weird skill to mowing a lawn.

Like,

you know, the sort of like your, your, your sort of tactic, right?

Your kind of approach.

Yeah, it's a huge, it's a huge pain.

My entire childhood.

I would say that in Connecticut, where my wife's family goes sometimes, like they're all, that's all, that's the teenage boys, right?

Like around town.

Like they're the ones mowing all the lawns.

Like it's just like the economy of teenage boys getting 20 bucks to mow a lawn or whatever it is.

I don't know what the going rate is.

Anything like that with heavy machinery, society basically like.

just storms upon me and goes like this cannot happen someone will die if you attempt this i will say step away from the machine Re-hard, re-sort of like manual labor, right?

Yeah.

I worked at a sandwich store when I was a teenager, and one of my jobs mopping the floor.

Oh, okay.

Right.

Like at the end of the day, like they're like, hey, can you mop the floor?

And I remember I started to mop the floor and like an experienced worker at this store looking at me being like, have you ever mopped a floor?

Because I was clearly had no idea what I was doing.

I must have been like 16 years old.

Just going to dry my dry mop.

No, I mean, mean, I think I don't honestly don't remember what I was doing because she taught me how to mop a floor and I did then did like okay at mopping the floor or whatever.

It's the same principle as mowing, just the tight U-turn, right?

So that you cover that transition.

I must have not been, I must have been slopping water all over the floor, right?

Like I must have not been squeezing it out enough to slop to a slop to or walking in the trail of the water.

Yeah, like, and I just remember I was like.

one minute in and she was like, David, have you ever mopped a floor?

And I was like, no, I don't think so.

Like, yeah.

I know.

Are you a smaller

you just came in with like some hard knowledge.

Well, I was just thinking of how gendered those tasks still are because I was never asked to mow a lawn.

Yeah.

You know, either it was the teenage boy in the neighborhood or my dad or my brother.

It never came up the money.

The mowing possibility.

And partly because

it's a machine.

This is it.

Yes, right.

But mowing, it's right.

You have to work this complex machine.

Only men can do that.

People treat me that way.

I just want to say, not to make this a competition, but they're like, you, Griffin, we can't.

Don't touch it.

Break it.

Yeah.

You have to teach me your road trip

that kind of suck up to your friends' techniques because I can't drive either.

Yeah.

Oh, hey.

It's sneaky.

You just kind of, you find a way to talk around it for long enough until the deposits have been put down.

That would be fun.

We could do the ND's idea.

And what about, yeah.

Oh, man, we could listen to Born to Be Wild.

Yeah.

We probably just listen to a bunch of fucking podcasts.

Ugh.

Gross.

I know.

All right.

Take us out.

Dana, thank you so much for being here.

It was such a joy.

You're the best.

Everyone can read.

You're writing at Slate, which is always excellent.

And the podcast.

Yes, the Slate Culture Gab Fest.

Every week on Slate.

Flashback does still exist.

The archives are accessible.

Good question.

Well, it was a subscriber-only podcast, but I think if you're a Slate Plus member, it better exist.

I don't even know if they kept the archive.

They killed that thing overnight.

It was so, so sad.

Hey, speaking of reading,

something

kind of exciting to announce on this episode.

The newsletter?

Correct.

The newsletter.

No.

Tomorrow, November 4th.

Yes.

At noon.

Wow.

Noon letter morning.

Eastern time?

Yeah.

We are going to be putting out our first edition of our new weekly newsletter that is called Griffin.

I don't want to.

There's been a lot of back and forth.

No, we picked it.

There's been a lot of back and forth.

I just want to make sure.

no we picked it the checkbook but it's not the a drop drop the the cleaner checkbook checkbook checkbook one word and so featured in this newsletter we will have expanded um insight into details about the film that we're discussing each week uh we'll also have uh stuff that didn't make it into the episode from jj's research people want to see glimpses of the dossier and boy are you gonna get them yeah you will yeah and uh marie Bardy, who will be running the show, is also going to be offering up some industry

insight.

Yeah.

I mean,

I think this is a thing that's going to evolve, and we're going to test out a lot of different things that can possibly go in there and sort of, you know,

people who exist in the blank check universe and things that we want to draw people's attention to that are coming up in the film world.

And it's going to be a fun catch-all of a bunch of different types of things that we're really excited about.

And that I think is going to be a really

cool sort of outlet for Marie.

And

also,

relevant because it's been a slight issue recently and a lot of like last-minute scrambles on our end.

Newsletter is always going to have a really clear schedule of what's coming up on all things.

It's the most up-to-date version.

Announcements you need on changes.

Absolutely.

That's a thing you can rely on.

So if you want to subscribe, there'll be a link in the episode description.

And yeah, we'll have it out every week.

So exciting stuff.

But yeah,

now we can wrap up.

Now we're actually done.

Thanks again, Dana.

Thank you.

Have you back?

Wild that this is our last Lynch movie now in the timeline of us actually returning.

Of course, we have to do the return.

Yes, we have to do the, we have to return.

We have to go back.

Thank you all for listening.

Please remember to rate, review, subscribe, and

subscribe to Checkbook.

Thank you to JJ Birch for our research.

Wild, his level of commitment spending three decades boots on the ground in Wisconsin just for this episode.

That was, it's appreciated.

But don't invoice us for it.

Thank you to.

We're not going to pay his entire living for three decades.

This episode has to end.

Thank you to.

AJ McKeon for our editing.

It's also our production coordinator, Marie Barty,

of the aforementioned checkbook for helping to produce the show.

Thank you, Elene Montgomery, and the Great American Novel for our theme song, Joe Bone, and Pat Reynolds for our artwork.

Tune in next week for here.

Yep.

Demeccus is here.

What promises to be the most normal film of 2024.

And as always, my dad took us to see it as a kid while our mom was out of town, and he loved how the guy ate the loan.