Blue Velvet with Jamie Loftus

Blank Jack with Briffin and David

Blank Jack with Griffin and David. Don't know what to say or to expect.

All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Jack.

Don't be a good neighbor to her. I'll send you a podcast straight from my heart, fucker.
You know what a podcast is?

It's a fucking audio program from a fucking player, fucker. You receive a podcast from me, you're fucked forever.
You understand? Fuck. I'll send you straight to hell, fucker.

It's a very good hopper. Thank you.
Yeah. I had it a little more than I thought I did.
How do you describe a podcast? That conversation. Yeah, right.
You were me.

I could feel you halfway into that being like, oh, I have to now elaborate on what a podcast is as Frank Booth. You know what my brain did in real time?

It was like, how do I explain it to my grandmother?

Right.

and it's like radio because she'll brag to people she'll go my my grandson he has a very successful podcast and then she'll turn to me and go what is a podcast she knows that she wants to brag about it

and then she says like what time does it air or like things like that sure yes sundays at uh 3 a.m right and i yell at her like frank booth sundays at midnight well is it midnight est yeah wow So those LA guys, they go to 9 p.m.

on a Saturday. They kept getting pushed forward a couple hours.

Yeah, because people were complaining and I don't know. That's what we landed.

It was like you would, you'd post it at time and then someone would email you and go like, you know, it'd be a lot better for my commute if you posted two hours earlier.

And then you would like acquiesce to that. No, you would just get mad.
I would. But then you would.
But then you would be mad. Then you get it.

I believe it. It's actually really funny.
I'm not saying that I respect when you're angry. I understand it.
Yeah.

And you're allowed to feel angry, but it is kind of funny because you do kind of stomp around. And sometimes you'll text us in advance and be like, I'm stomping mad today.

Yeah. You'll like, remember, when's that time when he texts us? He's like, I'm going to be arriving grumpy.

Or whatever. Or whatever.
Some kind of warning. Holy shit.
Ben has a gun. Ben has like a very vivid, like emotional tapestry.
Like you feel things very deeply. Yeah.
Yeah. I'm a cancer in that way.

Wait, I wouldn't say you run mad, but I'd say when you get mad, it's, it's full-bodied. I had a big breakthrough recently, Jamie, that Ben is all for Ninja Turtles.
Wow.

I think a lot of us are all for Ninja Turtles. You really like that.
I'm excited to be for turtles. As much all for Ninja Turtles as anyone I've ever met.
Yeah. I can't tell.

That's kind of a beautiful compliment, right? Yeah. Sometimes he's on Raphael hothead mode.
Yeah. Yeah.
Sometimes he's just quietly doing his machines.

Yes. Yeah.
He's pointing over to a monitor, producing the show, which is kind of like being the leader. Right.
In some ways. Yeah.

In a certain way, you know, there is the clarity of like, let's keep this running. And then there's the party, dude.
Which turtle are you? Tag yourself, Jamie.

I don't know. Are you not a turtle girl?

I honestly didn't grow up with turtle culture, but I don't know.

I feel like you're not allowed to prescribe a turtle to yourself any more than you could prescribe any of the, whenever there's four people and you have to be one of them. Well, sure.

Let's put it this way. Inside each of us are four blue velvet characters, right? There's inside each of us, a Dorothy, a Jeffrey, a Frank, and a Sandy.

Okay, I was wondering, right, who the, you know, you're not, you're not putting Ben in there. Ben, speaking of.
Ben's not a character. Dean Stockwell's character.
Oh, Ben. Yeah.

I mean, I guess nobody really addresses him. Is he the exact center point? Yeah, I guess, or he's just, you know, outside of the matrix.
Sure. Yeah.
I like to think of myself as,

how does Frank refer to him? He's so chic. Yeah.
A suave. So you're so funny.
And I do think of myself as being a bit suave at times. And I could, of course, course, at any time just

dab myself with powder, sink into a light bulb. Sure, little eyeliner.
Yeah. A Dorothy.

Are you, though?

No, I don't know what you are. This is maybe the worst personality group anyone's ever thought of.
Thank you. I want to be the little dog at the beginning.
Yeah, I'm the bird going.

I think we've identified what's funny about the bird is everyone's going to choose something outside of the four. I mean, I guess I must have that person inside of them.
I think I'm a Sandy.

I'm a gossip, but I try to look on the bright side of things.

So I think I'm probably a Sandy. Are you the lady that dances on the roof? Possibly.

Are you the yellow man? Possibly. Just standing there at the end.
Yeah. It's crazy when he's just standing there and he's dead.
Yeah. What happened to his brain, do you think?

I think he got shot with a gun. Oh, yeah.

I don't know.

Come on, Jamie. What are you? And then introduce her.
Come on, Jamie. Come on, what are you doing? Are you a turdler blue velvet? Well, you can pick or you can't give me a sex in the city character.

I don't know. I'm going to say

Michelangelo. I think that's right.
And,

oh, God, I don't want to be Jeffrey. It's okay to be Jeffrey.
But I just like, you know, Dorothy and Sandy, like, I'm not far enough in either direction. Jeffrey has a little bit of your like.

podcast journalism tendencies. Yeah, he's wandering around.
He's snooping. And like none of his business kind of like weirdo journalist, like gonzo journalist.
Yeah. But arguably a pervert.
Right.

Arguably a pervert.

Jeffrey's the closest one. The thing I like about the blue velvet matrix that we have created, we're all perverts.
Like everyone on that, everyone on there is some kind of pervert.

Everyone's pervert. Everyone's mommy.
Everyone's dad.

Right. I also think, yes, you know, it's like, you're, it's like, you're like, I'm going to do this.
I'm going to go to Alaska.

And I would be like, well, Jamie, that sounds, that sounds like a really wild thing to do. And like, Jeff is like, I'm going to sneak into the gangster.

Right. Twice.
Right.

I love how passively he presents it. And I love how quickly,

you know, that she's just like, yeah, I guess we should do that. I think that's a good way to spend.
Oh, I love it. I love it.

This is one of those timeline things where I always know what the reality is, but my brain flips it to like,

Lynch discovered him on this. And then obviously, when he gets offered Dune,

he casts his guy in the lead role in Dune. It is so much funnier that it's like he casts this guy as a leading man in Dune.
And then it's like, oh, you'd be better in one of my weirdo movies.

And he was right. He was right.

You know, Dune, we will talk about it. We haven't talked about it yet.

But like, there's these audition tapes you can see of Kyle McLaughlin shirtless, just like doing tumbles in a yard and kind of going.

you know, like being Paul and being like, yeah, I think I did like a good job in the audition.

And you're like, I can just see what Lynch fell in love with, both as the special boy who will save Arrakis, but also just like, oh, I want to mess this boy up.

But just normal enough to have like the studio sign off on him as like, you're not casting a crazy person in the heroic lead of your movie. He's got the right jaw.
You know, he's got the right face.

I feel like Kyle McLaughlin's like one of the most successful examples of a hot guy that's rarely doing hot guy things. Yes.
And people accept it.

Cause I feel like a lot of times people don't accept it. Like Brendan Frazier, we almost killed him.
We almost killed him.

We almost killed him when he was a hot guy doing things that weren't hot enough.

But

Mr. Kyle, he gets away with it and he's great at it.
His first movie is Jew. That's his number one first movie.
Which is wild.

I didn't know that before

getting ready for this episode.

His second movie is Blue Velvet. His third movie is The Hidden.
Have you seen The Hidden? I haven't. No.
Have you seen The Hidden? Both of you would love The Hidden.

Ben, you probably also love The Hidden, which is about a cop who is chasing a bad guy who's doing some crazy stuff and gets paired up with another cop paid by Kyle McLaughlin, who's kind of like weird and slimy.

And it turns out Kyle McLaughlin is an alien, as is the guy they're chasing. But Kyle McLaughlin's like a good alien.
Oh, people love this movie. I did not know that was the premise of the movie.

It rocks. Wait, when you say he's weird and slimy, you meant like physically? I meant more physically.
Like he's not like personality. There's just something like odd and shiny about him.

And you're like, what's the deal with this guy? And you're like, oh, he's an alien and he knows that this guy's also an an alien. Which is kind of Colin McLaughlin's vibe.
That's what he's so good at.

That's why it's so good. And then you like, you so you see those three, and you're like, Man, Hollywood was doing right by Colin McLaughlin.

And then, like, I feel like Hollywood didn't know what to do with Colin McLaughlin.

His other mode is like buffoonish asshole, sure. It's like, you know, Showgirls, or you know, I was gonna say,

you look at his 90s, like, Hollywood, what do we do with this guy? And on two-year-olds,

yes, it's Flintstones and Showgirls. It's like, here's the grown-up version and the kids' movie version of what we slot him into.

I also forgot that he was in the Flintstones, but I do like that he, yeah, he sort of pivots to like belligerent guy with erectile dysfunction. That's like his entire like 90s into the 2000s

vibe. I was thinking, like, it must have been so exciting.
Like, it must be such an exciting moment for a director when they find their self-insert guy

who is

slightly hotter than him and 15 years younger. And you're like, this is is my guy.

This guy gets to be me for 15 years, but hotter. That's so, that has to be such an amazing day.

I think that's why I flip it in my mind, because it's like, it's harder to believe that he could successfully cast Paul Atreides to the studio's wishes with his self-insert guy when that character does not in and of itself feel lynchian

versus this being a movie where it's like, and now I need to find me. It's wild that he found a guy who fit both.
What's the podcast? The podcast is called Blank Check with Griffin and David.

I'm Griffin. I'm David.
The smile that washed across his face. Curtains like blue velvet, kind of.
Well, our curtains are red. Yeah.

But, you know, kind of like you could imagine putting some fonts over it. Sure, you could.
Play an old song. I think it would say red velvet instead, but yeah.

It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want.

And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce. Baby, this is a mini series on the films of David Lynch.
It is called Twin Pods Firecast with Me.

This guy really did have,

it's a perfectly structured blank check career in terms of what we do here. It's true.
Right? You go like, first movie is like total outsider object. But gets him tons of builds a huge cult.

Then it's like, now we're going to try to fit you into like prestige studio. slightly more traditional filmmaking.
Success. Knocks that out of the fucking park.

They're like, great, you get to do a blockbuster now. Destroys him.

And then the fourth movie, Rebirth, is the like beginning of the rest of his career, right?

This is when it's like settled in, where he's like, Dune has taught me everything I never want to do ever again. I'm going to do things by my own terms.

I'm going to find the middle ground between the three modes I was in for the first three movies. And here's the model of what a David Lynch movie is.

What I found comforting, like re-watching this, like in the context of this point in his career, was was that even though, like, I mean, Dune was like a catastrophe, like for him personally,

you, I feel like you can sort of see things he learned doing Dune in this movie.

So it's, I don't know, I feel like stuff like that is so often like, and it was all for fucking nothing and it was humiliating and I felt horrible, but it's like, you can see, you can see that, you know, it was not for nothing, even though it did seem like a humiliating, terrible experience.

He treats it as such, but it is, yes, it informs his career in ways he right may or may not acknowledge

finding McLaughlin and shit like that.

And his relationship with Dinon DeLorentis, this movie doesn't happen without him. Like, he doesn't end up with Isabella Rossellini if this movie doesn't happen.

Everyone in this movie is fucking each other behind the scenes. It's great.
Oh, man.

But also, the blank check thing of like, oh, Dune, he has a tremendous amount of money, but he doesn't have a lot of freedom, right? He's getting like boxed in and overwhelmed by everything.

This is a movie where it's like, if you can get this done for $4 million, everyone will back the fuck off.

We'll talk about it. Yeah,

that is the joy that is harder and harder to find these days, right? Even at that level. Yeah.
Yeah.

And having made a film at such a big budget, he perhaps had a better understanding of how to make this smaller now. Now, I would fuck Stockwell if I had to pick.
No one asked you.

And I think I just need to. It's an interesting answer to a question.
I was not watching. To an unasked question.
A really, a deeply unasked question. What I really want to tell you.

I was just seen to edit in

one of us us asking the question. Now, David, I need to know

who was

fucking the cat. I kept going, would he fuck Dean Sockwell or not? I know you love Dean Stockwell and he's incredible in this movie.
Cliff Vandercave, who Kyle McCockland plays in The Flintstones.

I just want to say his name again. I think it's so funny.
Say his name.

And his name. Cliff Vandercave.
Say his name.

Some poster of him.

I just love the Flintstones writing process of like, all right, so he's like a rich guy.

So like built yeah so what do we do there vander cave job done yeah and then can we get jeploys evil secretary's name uh remind me sharon stone right yeah callie barry plays the role of sharon stone yes which was written for sharon stone yes and she dropped out and they were like we're still gonna call her sharon stone

we can't talk that i mean stone's in the name jesus christ can you imagine how weird that would have been if sharon stone were in the movie the flintstone playing a character with her own name i think everything about that movie is weird but never stop talking about how weird that movie is.

Maybe we should do it on the movie. I have pitched it before.
Is it just that and Viva Rock Vegas? Well, the question is: is there like a live action? Would you do both?

There's a man called Flintstone, which is the fucking espionage girl, the James Bond parody, which was a theatrical release, or do you do a live-action Hanna-Barbera thing? Okay.

Where it's those two, the two Scooby-Doos

and Yogi.

I was, I mean, I'm pro Scooby-Doo. I'm James Gunn, Scooby-Doo.
James Gunn, Scooby-Doo, ruled. Just the first one.
Scooby Doo, really special. He wrote both.
He wrote both.

I've never seen them. Second one, I would say, is not as good.
Monsters Unleashed, of course, one of my favorite subtitles.

Yeah,

I approve of it as a subtitle. Inferior Product.
The first one, Rips. I watched it last year and I was blown away.
The top top bottom ever. Yeah, and my favorite.

SMG and Linda, my two biggest crushes as a kid. Yeah.
It's, and they're perfectly cast. It's so good.

And James Gunn, when we were covering that last year, year, James Gunn was really, and to this day was like so, like singing the praises of Shrek as Scooby-D was coming out.

He's like, I wouldn't have been able to make this the way I make it. Like the tone.
Without the, yes, he's interesting.

I think the direct quote, if I'm remembering it correctly, was Shrek changed everything.

Holy shit. What a wild thing to say the year after 9-11.
Like, that is so wild. Well, Shrek was the number one biggest thing that happened in the year 2001 in terms of impacting culture.

And then you could say 9-11. It changed everything.
It changed everything. Steven Spielberg wanted to cast Dabney Coleman as Cliff Vander Cave.
Okay. An entirely different idea.

But I guess just sort of like, yeah, just do nine to five, right? Like, hey, Dabney, can you come in? And Dabney Coleman turned it down. Yeah, wild.
And so Kyle got to swoop in there. Good.

And the world is richer for it.

No disrespect to Dabney, but yeah, that's the obvious choice. Today we're talking about Kyle McLaughlin's second most iconic film.

Behind the Fun Sounds. Yeah.
Yeah. Blue Velvet.
Our guest today returning to the show. She's back.
One of the best. Wait, how many times have you been on, Genie? Is this four or five?

I think this is four. I don't know.
I think, no, it could be five. The pandemic scrambles everything.
No, this is four. This is four.
Dark Shadows. Yeah.
Drag Me to Hell. Yeah.

Seven Chances slash Go West. And Blue Velvet.
It's a good short. Who's our guest? Jamie Loftus, the great Jamie Loftus.
Oh, Jamie.

Of many famous back.

Of the book Raw Dog,

of the Bechtel cast. But I've been listening to your new show, which is so fucking good.
Oh, thank you. Achievement of Fame.
Yeah, I've been having so much fun making it. So good.

Did I get the title right? Yes. Yes.
I've been looking to rip it off. I'm giving it.
I'm going to give it a shot. Please, you've been looking to rip it off.
Come up with your own idea.

Yeah. I got ripped off by a large news podcast last week.
It was

kind of fun. But so I'm, I'm just, that inspired me to rip the embassy off.
You should do it. And I think I'm going to do it.
I think what we've learned is it's easy to do and I won't push back.

No, you're right. There's not much you can do about it.
So I think I'm just going to just go ahead, dive in and do it. I mean, I'm going to announce it too.
I'm going to telegraph my intention.

Talk to the same two guys.

Go pitch it to cracked.

We kick those guys so hard when they are down.

It's like kicking a skeleton. It's just still funny, dude, dude.
I know.

Jamie Kracked started a movie podcast when we were like a couple years in

called Cracked Movie Club. Oh, yeah.
They were maybe like two years into our show. And they were like, we go deep into the careers of directors, but they only would pick four movies.

They'd embody a director's career in just four episodes. Cowards.
Cowards. Lack of commitment.
Why? But they did the same four directors as us in a row in the same order we were doing them in.

Why do that, Jesus? I don't know. And then we just decided that they were our enemies.
And then the show ended after the fourth season.

It was gone within five months. And once or twice a year, I just come back around and kick it one more time.

Cracked has been sold to like Hungarian AI farms at this point. They're like, I don't know what, you know, I just keep kicking skeleton notes.

I appreciate that. I do the same thing.
I'm like, anytime someone's like, you should be like, it's a flattering thing. You're like, well, it doesn't fucking feel that way.
Right. It feels bad.

But I say this not to blow smoke up your ass, but I think that your, your podcast has a great book. It is a great premise.

It is these people who had this sort of viral outsized internet sort of fame and then disappear from the culture. And it's like, what happens in the 16th minute after they recede from the public eye?

And how does that sort of virality affect people in their lives long term and all of that?

It's a great idea that many people could rip off. But I do think the thing that makes your show so good is very much like about your perspective and your attitude and the way you engage with.

Jamie does is good.

Yes, absolutely. His personality and voice and intelligence.
That's so nice. Don't you have a new book out too? You freak.
Now I'm like weirdly hostile.

Now you're kicking my ass. Charlie Rose should have done that more.
He's like, wait, you did Breaking Bad? What's so good about that, freak? It's a pretty fucked up show, don't you think?

He was like, I don't know, I have a bunch of Emmys. And Charlie Rose's like, oh, that's great.
He comes right out of it. It is wild how much new documentaries still use Charlie Rose footage.

It's really well lit, and people tend to be allowed to talk for a while because Charlie Rose was snoozing there in the other seat.

I just feel like anytime I watch any like making a monster documentary. Yeah.

They all have the same same composer and it's a computer, right? And they use a bunch of Charlie Rose clips, and you're like, Are you intentionally like double-loading this?

When your new book maybe is not out in time for this to come out, I'm trying to remember when your new book is out. Oh, it's not coming out anytime soon.

Okay, okay, okay, but you do have another book sometime. I do,

yeah, and it's uh, it's I, it, it's definitely uh influenced by this very movie. Really? I would say, yes, yes, there's some uh, there's some,

you know, some

psychological body horror stuff. It's my favorite.
And is this a fiction book? Yeah. That's very exciting.
Yeah. It's about a

objectum sexuals.

So like people who fall in love and have sexual relationships with objects. Objects.
Yeah.

And so it's about an architect who starts cheating on her husband with a building that they're constructing together.

Yeah. So it's basically it's like 21st century lefty Ayn Rand.

I There, I it's so scary because I have never read Ayn Rand, and you're not the first person to tell me that. And I was like, Now I have to

think about Ayn Rand.

Look, I'll say this about Ayn Rand. That book does have war horse vibes of like, does everyone want to fuck this building? I, yeah, 100%.

I actually think it would be funny for me to just say, I'll say this about Ayn Rand and then never finish the sentence. And then people go and say, start thinking like,

um, she writes some very impressive run-on sentences. There's stuff in those.

I've never read

Atlas Shrugged. I read The Fountainhead.
I read The Fountainhead. This is, I have my, I have the same approach to a lot of books that I have to a lot of movies where you're just like, it's too long.

I'll never know. It's too long.
I mean, her books are, Atlas Shrugged seems quite long to me. Yes.
But everyone who loves it is so good and cool. So everyone else is a little bit more.

Everyone who loves it is so good and cool. Yeah.
That's right. No, I think that's right.
It's 1,200 pages long. It's very long.
Oh my God.

Could you describe what Ayn Rand has as a fan base or like something more sinister?

Right. They actually aren't allowed to be called fans because they're behaving too creepily.
They're like, no, you guys aren't fans. Although I guess all fan bases are

all fan base. Einsteins, that's what they should call themselves.

Like Paul Ryan should get up in front of Congress and be like, I'm an Einstein.

So

I've got a question for all the gamers out there, and I'm pointing at you, David. Are you seriously going to miss out on Alienware's biggest gaming sale of the year?

I mean these are Cyber Monday prices we're talking about so it's not just another sale. Yeah I took a look and this is some pretty big bang for your buck.

You know it's Alienware with some of the most advanced engineering out there with systems at the top of every reviewer's lists. And what about a gift for yourself?

Give yourself a new Alienware 16 Area 51 gaming laptop. I mean, this thing's got performance at the absolute next level with Intel Core Ultra Process.

And even better, you can get it during Cyber Monday. Plus, you can save on all kinds of displays and accessories like the Alienware 32 4K QD OLED gaming monitor for ultimate visual fidelity.

These really are incredible deals on PCs with otherworldly performance. So I'd visit alienware.com/slash deals soon and grab what you can before the lowest prices of the year go dark.

Bong.

David, this episode is brought to you by Mubi, the global film company, the champions great cinema. From iconic directors to emerging auteurs, there is always something new to discover.

And with Mubi, each and every film is hand-selected so you can explore. the best of cinema.
True. And that's right.
In particular, The Mastermind.

one of my favorite movies of the year from one of my favorite filmmakers alive, the great Kelly Reichardt. Uh, it's streaming on Movie in the U.S.

from December 12th. Uh, Kelly Reichhart, first cow showing up, lots of great movies, directing Josh O'Connor, the unforgettable Josh O'Connor, in her latest canned triumph, The Mastermind.

In a sedate Massachusetts suburb, circa 1970, unemployed family man and amateur art thief J.B. Mooney sets out on his first heist with the museum cased and accomplices recruited.

He has an air type plan, or so he thinks.

Yeah, you like this film, right? I love this one. Gabby Hoffman, John McGarrow, Hope Davis, Bill Camp Billy,

a Kelly take on a heist movie. Yes, it's like

loose and quiet and noodly and kind of political. Elusive and yes, incredibly funny.
Josh O'Connor's amazing in it. Josh O'Connor's really good in it.
He's the guy right now, as far as I'm concerned.

But this is a really fascinating vehicle for him. And I feel like it's Kelly Riker kind of dealing with a movie star persona in a way I haven't quite seen her do before.

An excellent movie, one of my favorites of the year. And that's all they have.
Obviously, Mubi has an incredible selection. Yeah.
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There you go.

David. Yes.
This episode, can you guess? Movie. Brought to you by Movie.
Wow. The curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema.
It's like from around the globe.

It's like when Norm enters the bar on show

Look Movie's got all kinds of great hand-selective streaming cinema that you can watch that's really cool. We like movie and that's great and we've been talking about them for years.

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They've been doing more of it, and we love it. Did you see Revenge? I did.

That film was excellent. And this is from the same director.

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Very exciting.

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Yeah, it was always one of our brightest shining stars. And Dennis Quaid is a repelling studio executive.

How did he find anything to play that kind of role? Look, we're excited to see this. It sounds really cool.
Ben and I have our tickets at the time of this recording. Yeah, you got your tickets.

We got our tickets. It got huge reviews at Cannes.

It's a big player this year. I'm very excited to see it.
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Bye-bye.

but we are here to discuss david lynch's film blue velvet

does it this is a completely stupid question but is this still the definitive lynch film it was obviously forever has mohawan drive sort of supplanted it with a younger generation or is this still kind of like look if you want to get jam david lynch's whole vibe in one movie you should probably watch blue velvet yeah boring question you know i think so not not to say it's the best film not best or whatever but i think if you're trying to like watch the definitive encapsulation i think the the suburban white picket fence aspects of this movie are a key part of the sort of lynch psyche that's not really in mulholland drive as much imagine seeing this movie like without knowing what it was about I remember you know what I mean yes I want stories of people who went on dates right to this movie going in cold.

It's got the guy, it's got Isabel Rossellini and the guy from Dune. I don't know.
It's about blue velvet. Well, let's go see it.
Sounds romantic.

This might be a slightly false compiled memory, but like years before seeing this movie, I remember seeing the segment of them talking about it on I Love the 80s when I was

fucking 13 or 14. Yeah, Charlie Rose.
I love that movie.

I think it was Molly Sims, the model, who was always on that show.

Okay. On I Love the 80s.
Yes.

She was the one who was on Las Vegas. Yes.
The show Las Vegas.

But it was someone like her who said something to the effect of like, Blue Velvet was one of those movies where it came out and there was this collective feeling of like,

we've all been waiting for someone to say this. Wait, Molly Sims said this? This is why it's such a specific memory in my mind.
And I was like, what does that mean?

I also feel like that's like aversion. Everyone who says anything on those shows says aversion of that.
Regardless, like they could be talking about easy squirt catch up.

And they're like, when that happened, things kind of just changed overnight.

It was one of those, like not framed as a joke, but was just like, it felt like, here's this thing that's been in the culture that has been unspoken.

And Lynch is the first guy to like put it up there. Okay.
Well, I said this. This is not to do with Molly Sims, but I said this to Ben off mic.
I don't want to say

watching Batman and Robin with a friend. Must be nice.

Right. Then, you know, up pops, of course, it's very funny to watch it right right after Batman Forever, which I always forget.

Literally, the last scene is Bruce and Chase Meridian being like, and now we've solved all the barriers between us and we're going to be together. Batman Robin begins, El McPherson's here, right?

No acknowledgment of Chase Meridian. Someone should say, like, yeah, she went off and fucked Superman.
They at least do that with Vicki Vale in return. Right.

She's not there. El McPherson is here.
And I'm like, this is El McPherson. My friend's like, who's that? And I'm like, you know, she was a supermodel.
They called her the body.

My friend was like, what kind of a fucking nickname is that for a super? They've all got bodies. That's That's not even a nice nickname for a super name.
It's not even a nice, gross nickname.

And I couldn't explain. I was like, I don't, I don't, I just know they called her that.
It was like her wrestler name, El Dabody McPherson. That's what they called her.
Yeah. I know what?

The only thing worse is being called a body. Like, that's, yeah.

That would be funny. El Abody McPherson.
Yeah.

Yeah, they just called her the body. And she was like, why? And I'm like, well, she's very statuesque because she's like, she's a supermodel.
Like, was this not news? Sure. They're all statuesque.

What is anyway?

I, I just think maybe McPherson also thinks blue velvet is when someone was saying what we were all thinking. Kind of, but I just like that there's ants crawling over the human ears.

It is a crazy way to describe it. It is a crazy way to describe it.
And to not have seen the movie and hear that, like, I just, it's always still the line I think about in relation to this movie.

And when I finally saw it years later, it was in my head of like, what was it that she felt he was expressing? Look, we have enough fans, not bragging, I'm just saying

that maybe someone is going to crawl for this clip and find whatever was Molly Sims' unconstructed thought on Blue Velvet. But I think you look at the response to this film at the time, right?

And it's like Eraserhead cult phenomenon. Then Elephant Man is just like beloved, a critically, you know, Oscar-fetted film.

Then Dune is seen as just kind of like roundly aflop in all corners at the time of its release.

This movie comes out, and I think some percentage of people were young Molly Sims sitting in the theater theater going, Finally, I've been waiting for someone to do it.

And then the other half of the culture is like,

You, which I think is what makes it kind of his definitive movie in a certain way, where it really feels like it feels like this was the first one to really touch a nerve where people were fighting over, like, what, how dare he

getting over a cold. Yes, uh, Jamie, what's your relationship to blue velvet? I was a material, no, just a move.

I was actually, I I have a nasty story about Red Velvet. I'll save that.
Blue Velvet,

the film. I was a latecomer to it.
I'm a latecomer to David Lynch in general.

I did not start. I mean, I had like seen clips.
I've certainly lied about having seen movies of his. I feel like he's a great person to lie about.

It's a rite of passage. Yeah.
If you're cornered at a party, yeah, I've seen Blue Velvet. Sure.
I actually watched it in high school. I didn't.

I did not watch it. Even now, having seen it, you lie retroactively about when you saw it.

My worst nightmare is someone digging up movies I said I've seen in other contexts over a course of years and quizzing me. Like that is my version of hell.
It is. It isn't.

Right.

But yeah, maybe, maybe that is what hell will be for me. No, I saw this.
I saw this a couple of years ago. I saw it during lockdown.
I was like, if not now, when?

and i really i don't know i went into it exp like i wish i was like oh well you know but you you're so familiar with what a david lynch movie is if it was i'd seen enough of his work that it was weird that i hadn't seen blue velvet and so much of what happens in this movie is like my brain is like no no no

uh and then at the end i was like i I really liked that. And I watched it.
I watched it twice in a row in that night, which is maybe just speaking to my mental health at the time.

But I watched it twice in a row. And then I went on a long walk.

And then I didn't, you know, and then I didn't watch it for a year. I think this was like my fourth time watching it.
I just, I, and, and every time I watch it, um, it's, you know, I, I don't know.

I personally like Blue Velvet better than Mulholland Drive.

I can't even really articulate why, but I just, I, I, every time I watch this movie, I feel a different way or I like connect to a different part of it.

This, this watch, and it's just so reflective of like where you are at personally, but this time I'm just like,

you know,

is Jeffrey like just looking for something to do while he's worried about his dad? Like, what is what is he up to?

You know, like, there's, there's so many different ways to, to watch it. And

there was like, I was watching a ContraPoints video recently just about how, like,

how lovely it is to watch a movie that is like not uh desperate to explain itself to you and she was referencing like the end of psycho and how she viewed it as almost like an insecure thing at the end of the movie to be like so in case you had any questions about what was going on the whole movie it was this here's literally his diagnosis yes yeah yeah and uh that like this is a great example of a movie that you're like who fucking knows that's not even the point i really appreciate this movie.

I like it a lot. I was reading a lot of the recent

press that Glenn Powell has been doing on his campaign run for infinite president of Hollywood, his sort of lifelong run that he's now beginning.

And he's now just like getting on TikTok and being like telling like stories that you tell at sleepovers. Yes.
He's just like, crazy thing happened to my sister.

He's like telling these random stories. He's doing story time videos.

He feels that way. And he blamed the poop on the couch on the dog.
So then the dad comes out.

And you're kind of like drinking it in because you're like, yeah, Glenn, that sounds great.

I think I like, I don't like, I, Glenn Powell does nothing for me, but it's only because it's like, I feel like I look at him and I'm like, I'm looking through him, you know, like he's just like the kind of handsome that you're like, he's just like so sharp.

And you're just like, huh. All right.
I do think I like him a tremendous amount.

He is the kind of guy, it's almost a Kami-Gla Clung thing where you're like, are you too perfectly handsome where you become uninteresting? That's why I like Hitman, though. Yes.

Because it's about how he's like, exactly. That's why I think it's like a brilliant movie star like vehicle for like have you seen Hitman? No, are you on board for Hitman? Oh, yeah.

Yeah, I'm excited.

And like, if McLaughlin hadn't found Lynch so early in his career, who knows what it would have looked like? Where you're like, I just see through this guy. Right.

Even if there was an inherent weirdness of him, you need someone to contextualize or whatever. But Glimpao in an interview was talking about how he's tried to strategize his career.

And he said he feels like the mistake a lot of young actors make is they're just like, well, I'm going to go off and do the big fucking franchise movies and then my serious movies are like me showing how hard i can act and trying to get an oscar and whatever and he was like people don't really re-watch oscar movies yeah the kinds of movies that often win people an oscar are like brutal one-time watches The worst biopic you've ever seen in your life.

And that's when it works out well. Yeah.
That's the best version of it.

If you fail to make the good version of it, then you've made a shitty version of the kind of movie that people only like to watch once. Yeah.

And he's like, part of movie stardom is making movies that people want to watch over and over and over again. It's what makes people feel kind of like totemic in their mind.

Costner, who we've just talked about so much, is a perfect example of that. It's a thing that makes him kind of an infinite movie star is he has 10 movies that will be re-watched forever.

But Lynch has this weird version of that thing where like his films are wildly re-watchable for how uncomfortable they are.

Because there will be scenes where you're just like, I can't fucking explain why this has some weird hold on me. This movie is profoundly upsetting.

It has like, you know, truly intense content in it, not to sound like the movie phone man or whatever. And yet you're kind of like, I love everyone in this movie.
They're so random and cool.

That's my point. Like, they look awesome.
They have cool films. It differentiates him from so many other filmmakers like him.
Yeah. That most people, you'd be like, that film's great.

I'm obviously never going to watch that ever again. Right.
Versus Blue Velvet, you're like, I can sit there and be uncomfortable while watching it and immediately want to watch it again.

That's what I like. It's like, by all, and I think like, this is one of the few movies that I can really say this about, like, I, by all accounts, I should hate this movie.
And I love it.

And, like, it's, I don't know.

And you, there's a million, you know, David Lynch imitators that you're like, nope, this is the movie I hate.

Like, this is the movie where you're just like, there's no rhyme or reason as to like why you're showing.

Yeah, you're smearing our face in this, and it's not right, like for any reason except to upset us or right. But there's a rise out of us.

But there's like just enough dream logic that you can like follow it and I don't know trust him and then and then just like reading about the production of it it's like he's you know riding around the set on a pink bicycle like

you know and he fell in love with like they fell like everyone in this movie fell in love you're like well I can't argue with that you know yeah I mean it it's one of the things that's so interesting about this film is like the people who hate it at the time were like this thing is like ugly and horrible and I cannot see how this wasn't damaging for the people who made it.

There was this hand-wringing in the press of, like, how dare you do this to your actors? Right.

What I just saw has such a like ugly power to it that there's no way you could have gotten that effect without actual human cost. Right.

And then you talk to everyone who made the movie, and they're like, absolutely not. Incredibly, like, warm, safe, supportive environment.
Yeah. We all knew what we were doing.

And we like trusted the director because he was kind. I don't know.
And all of the questions that I had about, like, well, where did this come from? Where did this come from?

I mean, he's so candid that you get the little threads of like the story when he's a little boy and there was a naked woman, you know, in his lawn. You're like, oh, okay.

Just like searing, upsetting image that he never forgot. Right.
He's a little boy and he and his brother see a naked woman walking down the street in their neighborhood.

Clearly, you know, not just like taking a stroll, like a woman who's like in some traumatic state. Yeah.
Right. And then she like disappears.
And it is a thing that haunted him his entire life.

And for how much he constantly says, like, there is no irony to my depiction of the suburbs and the white picket fences and the, the sort of like Americana and all of that.

This is a genuine warmth for me. My childhood was warm.
All of this was warm. He cites that as being the one moment in his mind

as a child where he's just like, there is evil like so close to the surface.

It is just barely underneath the veneer of civility that we live in where there's like profound darkness that might be happening that is inexplicable.

He obviously does not then go hide in a closet and try to solve this mystery himself. I don't know.

But it, I think that's a key detail that this movie doesn't come out of him being like, what's the most fucked up shit I can put on screen? Right.

It's this guy 20 years later never having gotten over.

Do I want to know the answers to how this woman ended up in that situation at that moment? When did you first see Blue Valve Griffin Newman?

I think I only saw it about 10 years ago, maybe a little earlier than that. I saw at the IFC Center at some point in the 2010s when it was

playing revival there. The voice of Molly Sims ringing in my head.

What is this film about to unlock? I'm about to see

a really relatable experience that we've all been waiting to be. We've all been waiting for.
But like you did say, look, let's have a little less conversation and a little more action.

Because that was the theme song to Las Vegas. That's like a...

I just want to pull as many things as I can about the forgotten James Khan NBC show, Las Vegas. Josh Mel.
Yeah, he was there. Who else was in the Castle Hospital? Nikki Cox.
Nikki Cox.

Or former wife of Jay Moore. Yes.
James LeSure.

I always thought he had a good name. Yeah.

Sellek.

I've met James. Right.

Selleck replaced Khan.

I think that's right.

Is that true? He at least, he's, he was a late. No, he's like the villain in season five.
He buys the Monte City. But they were both on it the same same time.

Con was always in it. Wow.

There was some twist where someone got blown off. I think Laura Flynn Boyle, speaking of David Lynch.
Oh, sure.

Yes. She gets blown off the roof by wind.

And like, that's her dead. She's like three sweet.
She was like a big villain. Right.
Exactly. And she's like, I'm going to blow up the hotel or whatever that she was going to do.

And then she gets blown off the roof by a must of wind. Wow.
Is it like a fun choice, like the Sex in the City lady falling out the window? Or is it like a...

Yes, it was. Okay.

okay it's it's sort of for laughs it's and diana muldur walking into an elevator shaft in la law which is a very famous tv death which i feel like now this our younger people don't know about la la law they don't know that someone just walked into a goddamn empty elevator shaft died and then they like rolled credits and were like see you next week and people had to go to the office and talk about it i think something similar happened on pretty little liars at some point and then later

what if it turned out one whole season of pretty little liars was just la law storylines you know

because there's no there's these kids don't know LA Law. I feel like this is the third time you've done a version of the These Kids Don't Know About LA Law monologue.

You did once about Larry Drake's character, I want to say. That might be true.
He was a big deal. Yeah.

I mean, I was too young for LA Law. But you know, what you're saying is I did my homework.
You did the rest. You watched every episode.

And David Kelly's still with us, just churning out crap. Or whatever.
I guess he did.

He's had a couple of lies. He's doing something.

David Lynch makes the film Dune.

It drives him insane. He makes the film with the cooperation of the Dina DeLorentis group.
Yeah, who are normal and not weird and don't do anything weird ever. Yes.
Right.

But before that, I guess in between Elephant Man and Dune, he takes a meeting of Warner Brothers. Do you want me to read from the dossier? Yeah, exactly.
Yes, obviously Dune devastates him, you know.

Meditation, he says, has saved him a lot of times, and that's one of them. David Lynch will always, of course, remind you that, you know, in times of trouble, he turns to meditation.

But, you know, Dune, it's not just that the movie's bad, but like he didn't have the freedom. He didn't have the final cut.
It gets taken away from him. He lost himself in the thing.
Yeah.

But he does have this project called Blue Velvet that he's had since 1973, Griffin. Okay.
Fragments of things, he says.

I'm a bad radio. Sometimes the parts don't hook together.
It took a long time for Blue Velvet to emerge. Because right after Elephant Man, his first instinct was to try to do Ronnie Rocket.

Was that the first time? Right. Yeah.
He met with producer Richard Roth and he gives him the script for Ronnie Rocket, which is this, you know, never produced David Lynch concept, right?

I mean, sort of a

buried gem, right? Lynch fan. It's his great, unmade, yeah.
Life's project.

Like a, do we, how much do we know about Ronnie Rocket?

I feel like the script is pretty out there. Yeah, I've never read it.
It's basically about,

I don't know, a detective who wants to go to a a dimension and he can like stand on one leg to do that.

And there's like a dwarf and a like, it's one of those things where you can feel like he tore stuff out of it and put it in other things. Yeah, that feels like a David Lynch mad list.

Yeah, a little bit.

A haunted detective meets a dwarf to go to Dementi.

Hilarious to think, right, of course, Elephant Man. He's like, well, what about Ronnie Rock? And the guy's like,

yeah, maybe. Do you have any other ideas? Yeah.
And he's like, come on, do you have any other ideas? And Lynch says, well, I always wanted to sneak into a girl's room at night.

And he was like, ideas for movies, David.

I'm serious. This is what I'm doing.
Like for what to do on a Sunday night. And then he was like, and I've always thought, like, what if you did that?

And then it turned out to be like the clue to a murder mystery.

And to Richard Roth's credit, he's like, well, that sounds like a movie. Like,

that is the premise of a movie. Sure.
Right. You know, you're cooking with something there.
Yeah. Like just the image of someone like hiding in a closet seeing a, you know, murder.

And did he have the ear already at that point?

And he went home and he pictured someone finding an ear in a field, is how he puts it. I've seen that ear.
That ear is in a movie store in Portland, Oregon. Oh, the actual

props ear. The fucking

wait, I wrote it down because I've been there before. I went there.
Yes. It's it's it's it's it's movie madness in Portland.
Yeah.

David, there's this place called Movie Madness in Portland that's like a Valhalla of like actual DVD rental. And it's got like VHSs and I see it here.
It's beautiful. Everything.

It has the most insane movie memorabilia collection. Very walk in and you're like, oh, cool.
They have like a couple things they bought. Are these like replicas?

And then you're like, all of this is real and it's like extensive. It's basically like a mini museum of moving image.
Love it. It's so awesome.
Yeah. And you can just walk in.

But yeah, they have the ear. All right.
Well, I'm going to go get it. I thought you were saying, Jamie, I saw that ear in another movie.

Like you recognized it. You went like, they don't even need anything from.
It's like talking about like seeing like Jimmy the crow in more than one movie yes blow the ants off it like fine you can

david yep oh wait hold on one second

was just here where did it go griffin what are you looking for well it's just i lost sight of my money and financial responsibility this time of year this always happens

Every end of the year, I'm rushing out of the house. Keys, got them, wallet, cell phone, glasses.
But where's my money and financial responsibility?

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And Wyatt Russell as young Kurt Russell. And maybe Anders Holmes as young John Goodman.
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I wish it was as simple as raising Mohwai.

Exactly. They only have three rules.
Money has like infinite rules.

A different kind of monster that you're bringing into the ad read right now, but it's just folded into the monarch. That's a good one.
You're folding it in like, you know, like Bay Cane. Exactly.

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Ah

do you know what that's me reacting to David what cold mornings and a holiday plans

So you're cold and upset. Upset, scared, stressed.
This is when I need my wardrobe to just work. It's the last thing I want to worry about when I'm dealing with my two greatest fears.

Stuff that looks sharp, feels good, and I'll actually reach for. That's what I'm asking for, David.
And that's why I go with Quince.

Plus, it makes gifting easy when everything's worth keeping for yourself. Now, usually we're dragging you out on a leash to do ad reads, but you said, oh, I got something for this one.

Well, I recently shopped at Quince, which I do all the time. And I did get one of their Mongolian cashmere sweaters, which is mentioned here.
Yeah. In their ad copy, which are only $50.

And literally I gave someone a hug and they were like, you're so soft. And I was like, I ain't soft, baby.
Cashmere is. They hugged you and they went, that must have cost $200 or more.

And you said from

rival retailers, but at Quint's, only $50 plus wool coats that actually hold up to daily wear and still look good. Here's the other thing I got, though.
Please tell me. I recently upgraded my bed size

to brag because of another sponsor we had, which I won't mention right now, crossover event. And so I needed a new comforter.
And I was like, Quince has comforters.

What if I got a down alternative comforter from Quince? And it's really, really nice. So nice, I'm upset to be here today.
I'd much rather be under it. It's in my bed.
Alternative comforter.

Does it have like a nose ring and it listens to like indie music? Yeah. Okay, wait, hold on.
I can't go for that. I can also as well.
Okay, go ahead.

Comforter, because some of these rival companies, it's more like like an uncomforter. So true.
Sure, you go with the alternative thing and then stop there. That was a better bet.
Yeah.

Hugely affordable. It was, it came right away.
It's really nice.

Every time I shop at Quince, I am impressed. And I just want you to get your wardrobe sorted and your gift list handled with Quince.
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Canada too?

That's q-u-in-ce-e.com/slash check. Free shipping and 365-day returns.
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So, what are his inspirations here? He wants to spy on a woman. An ear in the grass.
Bobby Vinton song cover of Blue Velvet. Yes.
The kind of music you really liked. Something mysterious.

It made me think about things. I thought about lawns, the neighborhood.
It's twilight. Maybe a streetlight is on.

And, you know, in the car, there's a girl with red lips. I mean, this is just what he just goes into some state and pulls out David Lynch's.
Like, David Lynch chopped a gradient. Yeah.

Because this is what you have to do. This is why I think this is still the quintessential,

right?

It has all

Holland Drive is just the other side of his coin. If this is the like, right, the small town America thing and Mulholland Drive is like, LA is this.

I would say that is now seen as his masterpiece, and this is still seen as his like definitive. Yeah, which I totally get.
I just feel like

by the time Mulholland Drive comes out, you like, not that you can ever truly know exactly what to expect, but this is the one where you're like,

he hadn't, it was unprecedented. I mean, imagine being Molly Sims sitting there in the theater going, this guy isn't going to speak to the thing.

It sounds like she's related to me, but I don't believe that she is.

What if we found that out by the end of this episode? Molly Sims. Let's see.
She was born to Jim and Dottie Sims. Okay.

In May Murray, Kentucky.

Any Jim Sims? No, the Sims are all in Europe.

My dad, you know,

the Sims are English and Scottish. Married to Scott Stuber.
Cool. Who was the head of Netflix? Yeah, until he was fired for winning too much.

Let's have you spit in a cup, David.

But not for any other reason. Just period.
I just want to see how strong your spit is. Yeah.
Not, I think not good.

But we'll send it out and then we'll see what you know ancestry.com has to say oh i don't want those guys having my dna why

they probably have it anyways yeah they probably your cousin did it i've licked enough lampposts in my life david what

ah david yes aunts Aunts? Aunts. Ants, aunts, aunts.
Aunts, aunts, aunts, aunts.

I hate getting cornered by him. We all do.
I knew that was going to be a relatable conversation starter. Why aren't you getting married? What's going on with that promotion?

Why haven't you moved out of mom and dad's basement, Griffin? Oh, those were directed at me?

Oh, now I feel attacked. Get out of the basement, Griffin.

She doesn't listen. She just judges, judges, judges.
You're getting together with your family. You might have to be in a barrage with these kinds of questions.

Stand there and grin and bear it. I don't want you feeling that way when you talk to your doctor about like a weird rash or that you eat pizza one too many times a week or something else.

Unfortunately, we have Red for Filth by this head copy right now. Unfortunately, the twist to this riddle is that the doctor is my aunt.
Oh, no, but other people might have another aunt.

I can't feed this patient.

He's my nephew. Yeah.

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Often you can do like within like 24, 48 hours. Yeah.
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Thank God, because you know, the unfortunate thing is, what the receptionist, my other aunt, sheesh, yeah, when I go to the doctor's office, I get an Are you calling from a basement,

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Go to zocdoc.com/slash check and download the zocdoc app for free. Then find and book a top-rated doctor today.
That's z-oc-d-oc-c.com slash check, zocdoc.com slash check.

You can get an appointment in like 24 to 72 hours. Yeah, or in the middle, 48 hours, and ultimately Murphy, which I accidentally said is ultimate Murray twice.

David Lynch, Blue Velvet's the opposite of Elephant Man, he says. That's about a Elephant Man.
He's like, you know, it's this terrifying, ugly exterior, right?

And there's a beautiful soul and a beautiful person within. Blue velvet, it's the opposite, right? The beautiful sheen of the suburbs and like

then the horror stuff within it. You get me.
No, I get what you're saying 100%.

Like Ebert in particular, I hate at this point. We'll talk about it.
His review is iconic. Yeah.

I remember reading it when I saw this film in high school after watching Mohan Drive. I think I was like, okay, I need to, you know.

And I remember going to his review because I was a little Ebert boy. I was like, what did Radio Ebert say? And like, it's just like, it's the most upset review.

He's just like, I understand why people think this is a masterpiece. I feel horrible.
Like, I'm, you know, I'm too upset by this movie. And he like wrote follow-up pieces.
Right.

He's like, I tried to get back into it. No, it still freaks me out.
Ultimately, it comes back around to being like, I do think Lynch is like a master filmmaker. I think that movie is still evil.

Like, he never

really changes his mind on Blue Velvet specifically. I appreciate, yeah, I went through his sort of soul-searching journey to try to like Blue Velvet.

And I like, I mean, even though I don't agree with him, I can also see how, you know, it's easily a movie you could watch, especially right when it came out if you didn't know what to make of it and be like, yeah, this feels evil.

I don't want any part of it.

Well, the thing I found very interesting is a lot of the people who took that stance, Ebert Chief among them, had this attitude of like, it's a film about just like kind of gross

depravity. It almost feels like this fetish object of watching all this like humiliation and abuse and misanthropic sadness and what have you.

And then on top of it is this very like glib kitschy layer of like 50s Americana pastis that's his idea

of like satire.

But I think what was misunderstood at that time and it's one of those things that like it just there wasn't enough of an understanding of who Lynch was

that people thought he was putting that on top of it to mock like, well, this is like people keeping up appearances in this phony bullshit way.

And he's doing all of this with this like side eye versus him looking back on that and being like, these are genuinely the things that make me happy.

This is what I associate with my childhood, which I think of as being very nice. None of this is done like cynically or sarcastically.
I understand where Eber is coming from.

If you don't know who he, like David Lynch fully is at this time, which no one really quite did.

You know, he is the exception to the rule there, where there's so many like directors with his level of you know creative vision and power that would take the opportunity to humiliate their actors and to subjugate them and like i i don't know i mean especially with regards to like how isabella like rossellini is like brutalized in this movie on my first viewing i was like what the fuck like what what do what do you make of this and so like i went straight to like watching it again to be like, okay, was that what, was what I thought I saw and like what I actually saw parse that out and then it was just like i just wanted to hear her talk about the experience of making the movie and like listening to her talk about making the movie and listening to david lynch talk about the creative choices he was making made it like makes it an easier movie it's never an easy movie to watch but it makes it an easier movie to interact with but like that wouldn't have been possible when it came out no and i think the elephant you're seeing this thing pretty right unvarnished the elephant man thing you said right which is the key to it for him of like that's a movie about a guy who on the surface people think is very frightening looking.

And inside, you're arguing for the humanity of this person. That if you think the Americana stuff on top of the movie is all done tongue in cheek, then you're like, what the fuck is this?

There is no sincerity to this thing. Versus what he's saying is like, I genuinely think these things are beautiful.

Like David Lynch is like, nothing is more beautiful and poetic to me than like a malt shop. or like

two kids going steady or like, you know, a lawn. And it does sound like a lie, but then when you know it's him, you're like,

it is real, which is what's fascinating about him and why anyone trying to make a movie like this by design, it would be as ugly

as what people are accusing him of doing versus this film being like a very honest reflection of his worldview.

So he gets, Roth is like, look, take this to Warner Brothers. I'll take, I'll get you in a meeting with Warner Brothers.
He pitches, this is pre-Dune, post-Elephant Man.

Pitches it to Warner Brothers and the exec is like, what? Is this like a true story? And Lynch is like, No, I made it up. And the guy's like, All right, I'll do it.

Like, cool, the guy's just like, Phew,

exactly.

Lynch says he wrote two screenplays that were horrible, that were just the ugly stuff, right?

And that the guy Warners was screaming at him on the phone, and so the film kind of got put away, and then he went to work on Dune.

And even though it is so weird, he had a horrible time working on that movie. Dino DeLaurentis is there, and I guess he's like, Maybe you're the guy for Blue Velvet.
Yeah, yeah,

Italian freak, Dino,

your worst. Uh,

and he's like, the only issue is uh, Warner Brothers, I think, has the rights to it, and Dino is like, Don't worry about it.

And uh,

he uh doesn't, you know, he called Warner Brothers and got it back very quickly. Um, so it is funny that, like, Dino kind of makes it up to him in a way, this horrible experience he has.

This film for four million dollars is far and away, like, the cheapest film he makes that year. He's generally working on a much larger scale, if not always at a Dune scale.

Dino's doing Conan movies and shit like that.

Right. He says, can I have the final cut? And Dino says, no problem.
Just cut your salary in half, cut the budget in half. Right.
He's like, you have to make it for under 10.

And Dino assigns him the producer, Fred Caruso.

who he said was this like very disciplined, old school kind of Hollywood guy. And he looked at it and he's like, you could make this for four.

Yeah.

Lynch said to Caruso, the budget's $10 million.

And he read the script a few times. And he says, I don't know what this movie's about.
I'm happy to work on it. I can get the movie down to $4 million easy, basically.
And he loves this man.

Bless his heart. Because he knows that Caruso turning back and saying, I can make it for less than half of what you're offering, it gives Lynch, by proxy, complete freedom.

At this point, DeLorantis is like, well, at four, that's a fucking rounding error. Why not? I won't say anything about this movie.
I won't even watch it. Right.
Who cares?

Lynch says Fred Caruso talks in a way that gives you a feeling of assurance and safety. And he would often say to him, I don't know what you're doing, but he was a really good producer.

So Lynch gives the script to Kyle McLaughlin on the set of Dune, maybe on Arrakis, maybe when they're on a worm or something.

He's like, you want to read this, my boy?

They're drinking. I saw you as the pervert.

Jeffrey highlighted the launcher. What were you saying?

I just, I haven't seen any Dune that's ever come out. And is it, do they drink?

Okay, two questions.

Do they drink their own piss? Yes. Okay.
But like, not out of a cup. Their suit is doing it fine.
On screen?

Sorry. Not in, not even in the David Lynch one.

Well, okay, so like in Dune, you know, in on the world of Arrakis, the harsh sand world of Arrakis, you're wearing a still suit that's recycling your water. My brain just turned off.
I'm sorry. Okay.

I mean, that's what a lot of people do in like page one of the book. Like before, you know, where it's just like the quiz that's how to rock and people are just like, it's gone.
It's got to go.

I'm not reading that. Jamie, you're not into this hard lore.
You just like opening shot, the Mariner pisses into a contraption on his own ship. We live in Water World.
Exactly. He drinks the piss.

Just working that pump. Yeah.
I was like,

there's no live Dune show at Universal Studios Hollywood.

That actually might happen. Yeah, I mean, that seems more likely.
That would be so cruel and unusual if they got rid of the Water World show to replace it with, ooh, ooh.

I think the Water World show isn't going anywhere. It's more implied piss drinking.
Yeah. not not uh they do drink worm piss in a way yeah it makes them go crazy

and like see visions and stuff yeah so you do see that but it's you know it's not their own piss it's not you know and it's not the good stuff it's not the good stuff the spicy stuff i do well of course they do ingest the spice I do like Lynch's quote about Kyle where he's like, some actors, when you look in your eyes, their eyes, you can't see them thinking.

Kyle can think on screen. Jeffrey is connecting different worlds.
He's looking into Sandy's world. He's looking into Dorothy's world.
He can even look into Frank's world.

And I need, like, you know, someone who can communicate that silently. It's interesting, I think,

not that Colin McLaughlin's bad in Dune, but when they announced that Chalamay was doing the new one, and you, David, were like, that's so fucking spot on. Yeah.

And it was at a moment when you were getting a little bit frustrated with Chalamay, and you were like, I cannot deny that that is the perfect application of him.

I called him a grading and mannered actor, and someone said he's only grading and mannered when he's giving you extra Parmesan at Olive Garden. Maybe you and Chalamet were on the rocks.

That is. Wait, who said that? Sam Herbs.
Shout out to you, Sam Herbs. That is very funny.
It was so funny.

I said that his performance in Beautiful Boy was grading and mannered and Sam was like, he is only grading and mannered if he is giving you extra cheese at Olive Garden.

That is one of the funnier things I've heard in a long time.

I was kind of like... Also, I think with Timmy Chalamet, I was kind of like, yeah, but like, right, how does this guy translate?

And then he picked, you know, he's Paul Paul Atreides, and I was like, that is something about him being sort of unerving special boy. Right.
The special boy thing.

Colin McLaughlin, I think, is almost a little bit too adult for Dune. Yeah, sure.
He's a little less boyish. He's still pretty boyish.
We'll talk about it.

But then in this movie, you're like, this is such a perfect young man, which is what this movie needs. He is so firmly in the center of like, this guy returns home.

There are women who are still in high school who remember him from being king shit in high school. He has not quite transitioned into adulthood.
Right, but he does. Right.
He's not a kid.

Like this is a and this whole movie is the journey of him being like, I've kind of left behind the like comforting bubble of the white picket fence world.

Do I want to go back to being like the guy who can pick up the girls at the school? Do I want to venture into a darker world?

I know that

His character and Lauren Dern's character are close in age, but there is something so Jerry Seinfeld-coded about pulling up to a high school in a red convertible where you're just like, no, keep driving.

And also his bad boy 2.0 phase. Let's acknowledge Ben, Com McLaughlin, in this film, rocking a little ear.

You beat me to it. I was going to make fun of Ben.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ben has a little ear.
So I recently changed to a hoop, having had a stud for about a year. Oh, yeah.

Okay, okay. I knew something seemed different.
Yeah,

I felt all the balances in here are off, right? It's crazy. We haven't recalibrated yet.
Yeah, Yeah, Ben's been feeling more powerful.

Ben really happy.

Yeah. You get no, sorry, go on.
Well, I just, I was saying before we started recording, too, that I really was influenced by all of his fits in this movie.

And I'm going to become a sports jacket guy and start wearing ties.

He dresses a lot like Lynch in this movie. You're entering your new wave era, is what you're telling me.
I also fully believe that

Lynch, you know, Lynch in his prime was doing the chicken dance on date one. Like, that's all autobiographical easily.

But I also like to think about all the things that, all the weird things that Jeffrey does early on where I'm like, maybe if he just didn't do the chicken dance, none of this would have happened.

Sure. Like, what are little things? I feel like he conjured this situation for himself, but it is like, I don't know.
I, Jeffrey is, and the, I felt a little vindicated.

I'd never looked into like the cut scenes or anything that was like removed from this movie, but I like, Kyle McLaughlin is really, I don't know.

I think the most iconic Kyle McLaughlin role for me, formatively, outside of the Flintstones. Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants 2 is that is a close.
Okay. Sorry.
Okay. Blue Velvet is my no.

Number two. Okay.
Well, come on. Just

in the state. Trey McDougal.
Yeah. Would you rather measure my John Thomas? I'll just always remember him.

Wow. My John Thomas.

Alrighty.

It's just like, and the things that he's good at feel so consistent regardless of like the genre he's in, where he's great at like being oblivious but he's also great at like he's uniquely good at being like guilty and shameful in like a very like baby way like a baby who's been hit um yes he's so good at being shameful that is very true obviously he's played so many kinds of deviance over the years which is great i support deviancy obviously i'm not i mean you sent him a bunch of facebook messages and he had to write and apologize publicly that he's not his character did you see that the rictus erectus has a fucking behavior?

For the record, I don't actually live in the wasteland and capture children. Oh, yeah.
After some startling messages I've received from strangers.

We live in hell.

If he had just doubled down on us living in hell and been like, I was a notes app apology

for the actions he did in Furio. Basically what he posted.
I know, I know. Poor guy.
Yes, like, so like, right, in Sex in the City, Charlotte Mary is what seems like the perfect preppy guy. Okay.

Wait, do you not know? He's never seen.

I've seen two episodes of Sex in the City. Wait, I've never seen something that you haven't seen before.
This is really exciting. It's really cool.
Yeah. And he turned to be baseball again.

No, of course not. Right.
You guys have a lot of overlap, to be clear.

And right, she marries, like, she's always wanted this, like, you know, kind of picture-perfect husband. She thinks she's founded in this like preppy guy who wears a, you know, boating hat and is.

His mom's name is Bunny. Right.
She's always walking in on them having sex. An impotent mom-obsessed freak who like, you know, cannot get it up in bed because he's got so much going on, you know.

But has no idea he has so much stuff going on. And like, that's.
And he's so good at, you're right.

Like both head empty and head busy lunch with freak shit.

I love like it's that, I mean, in a different, but like, it's like Dale Cooper shit, too, where it's like his head looks empty, but there's just like,

it's unclear whether he knows how much is going on in his head.

I don't know. I've never seen that specific kind of like eye glaze that Kyle McLaughlin can conjure.
Well, he looks so much like a mannequin without being vacant.

You know, this is why The Hidden used him that way. It's why like Fallout this year uses him the exact same.
He's always instant path to that.

Where you're like, I can't tell if this guy is devious or is right, just like a mannequin come to life. The Portlandia character is also doing that.

Yeah. I think the funniest thing on Portlandia was Steve Buscemi being celery.
Anyway, Kyle McLaughlin is given the script, likes the script a lot, is really, he's like, I think I understand this.

He takes it to his parents, which is adorable. Yeah.
Something you do, I guess, when you've only been in one movie. His parents are very upset by the script.

His mother apparently couldn't even talk after reading it. And he was basically like, I think that David's going to handle this well.
Like, please don't worry.

Oh, when we covered seven on this show and reading about everyone's response to the script at the same time, It's one of those things that just like

it feels quaint now. I just think we're at a point now where it's hard to imagine any script being sent around Hollywood where people are like, how dare they

in that same sort of way. People will be like, this is offensive,

but you, you read how people received this on paper. similar to the seven script and they were like, this seems illegal.

It's kind of fun to think about. Are you going to screen this movie in prison?

I wonder how much of that can be like attributed to like just pre-internet where it's like now you can just you can be like, here's a built-in audience for any fetish you could conjure.

Like there are millions of people interested and I have the data. Where before, I mean, that's like, I guess part of what the movie is talking about is like, you just don't know what people are into.

Now it's like, it's, it's, it's far too easy to figure out what people are into. It's like what Molly Sim said, that there's something in the culture that hasn't been spoken to.

No, I think you're right. I think there's this knowledge now that at any point you could Google anything and probably see it.

And most of us are choosing at most times to not Google most things, but there's not that feeling of like, how dare you put that out into the world? Because you're like, I think it's all out there.

I'm just trying to avoid it now. So, this is Lynch's first collaboration with Joanna Ray, who is his casting director going forward, famously the ex-wife of Aldo Ray,

and

someone where it's like basically just at this point. I mean, she works on like Lynch Tarantino.
She casts showgirls, like her entire casting credits on IMDb. They're just all amazing.

Obviously, she has an eye for

freaks, deviants.

Again, I'm seeing this with love. Wow.

Frank Booth is the tough role to cast here. Willem Dafoe was supposedly in discussions at some point.
Makes sense. Eventually, obviously, he's on Wild at Heart.

Lynch absolutely offered the role to Harry Dean Stanton, who was disturbed by it. I don't want to go down that violent trip, he said.
Hopper was basically like, I really get this guy.

Hopper is campaigning for the role. Yes.
Now, Hopper is not in like a Sterling career place, right? Like it's like, he's not really a draw.

No, but as Lynch says, he's like hearing rumors that Hopper might have cleaned up. That this is coming off of like over a decade where Hopper became vaguely unhireable just because like this guy is so

whacked out of his mind on any number of substances at any time that you're just not going to be able to control him.

And there's this question of like, has Hopper cleaned up? I'm so curious. Is there like

footage of David Lynch and Dennis Hopper like working together? What were they like having a conversation together? It almost feels like a Klaus and Werner thing.

Like you're just like, what is this dynamic? How could it possibly have worked?

But that's the fascinating thing is like you watch like the documentary about the last movie and you're like, this is a guy who is like unraveling, right?

By this point, I feel like there's like never a bad story about Dennis Hopper onset behavior from 1985 on. No, he went on the wagon.

I mean, yes, it's like, and I think he had a really chaotic reputation, and that's why Lynch even has to be convinced, even though apparently Dennis is saying to him, like, you have to let me play Frank.

I am Frank.

I mean, like, behavior aside, just someone who's yelling at your

can't not yell. That's the thing, though.

Like, even when he's giving unhinged performances, I feel like from 85 on, the narrative is this guy went through it all, and now he's able to like uncork it when he needs to in front of camera.

But, like, the thing that obviously appeals to Lynch, and then he talks about it, is like, he is such a 50s guy hopper because he does have this like motorcycle bandit thing, basically.

The rebel without a collar. Exactly.
And like, that's what Lynch fucking loves.

Like, that, and so he says, like, there's a scene where Dennis is watching Dorothy sing and he's crying, and it was totally perfect.

There's a side of these romantic 50s rebel things where guys could cry and it was totally okay and cool and then they would beat the shit out of somebody in the next minute macho guys don't cry now and it's false and the 50s guys had these po this poetry swimming through them which is an amazing way to think about this yeah and a guy like this who's had done like heightened studio melodrama had done like countercultural experimental had done had touched so many different eras of Hollywood speed and water world back to back would do speed yeah would do yeah and and drink water back to back.

And you're forgetting King Koopa, of course, which I'm so sorry.

Yeah, an incredible run.

What a career in the 90s. Dorothy Ballons, Lynch really wanted Helen Mirren, who is a mega babe at the time, who's working with like Peter Greenway and stuff.

And I was going to say, make sense for this type of movie. Yes.

And he says that she gave him lots of feedback on the script and really helps him. Lynch says, I didn't know Isabelle Rossellini at all.
I didn't even really know she acted.

I thought of her more as a model. And the son was entirely Helen Marin's idea.

That when he was talking to her about the project, she was like, Her behavior doesn't really make sense if she's doing it for a child.

There has to be a sense of something greater she's protecting that she's making these calculations in the name of.

And apparently, when he met Isabella Rossellini, David Lynch said to her, You know, you look like Ingrid Bergman. And someone was like, That's that's her mother.

Like, David, like, what are you talking about? I don't know if it's apocryphal. I feel like at times I've heard that story relayed as someone tells him, it is her mother, you idiot.

And he literally falls out of his chair, which I could imagine.

You could see Lynch going like, holy smokes! Like, falling backwards. Losing control.
Yeah.

So he reaches out to Martin Scorsese, who is the ex-husband of Isabella Rosslini. They were already split up at that point.

Yes. Okay.
Oh, no, I'm sorry. It's the other way around.
Sorry. Isabella Rossellini reaches out to Martin, her ex-husband, and says, like, well, what's the deal with David Lynch?

And he's like, go see a racerhead.

And she was very impressed by it. And, you know, there it goes.
And Lynch puts her with Kyle McLaughlin and has them talk and do stuff like that. And then gets the part.

Obviously, Lynch is also like madly in love with her. It's very obvious.
Right. I was going to say from these quotes in retrospect that he was just so struck by her.

The reason I didn't think they were already divorced at that point.

point, there was some Scorsese interview where he talked about Rosalina asking him about Lynch that he was interested in her, and they had that conversation.

She walked away or hung up the phone or whatever, and Scorsese was like, She's going to fucking fall in love with Lynch. Like this immediate, like, I know exactly what's about to happen.

But I guess he had already kind of fucked it up at that point. I mean, this is like Scorsese.
How long were they married for? Uh, he, how,

uh, Scorsese or um

were married only for three years, and that's at like the absolute worst of his addiction issues. She's married to him at the worst point before he came back.
1989 to 82. Right.

It's the New York, New York digging himself out to come back the other side with Raging Bull era. And then Russellini dates Lynch from Blue Velvet on to like about 1991.

And

yeah. And then Laura Dern, obviously, this is the beginning of long history collaborations for Lynch and Dern.
She was 17 years old. Obviously, she is a Hollywood royalty, right?

Another daughter of Bruce Dern and

he loves anyone who has history within the industry in that way.

But also, like, people like Dean Stockwell, who are like former child stars, people who are legacy stars, people who have existed in different eras or mediums or what have you.

And

he just wants, obviously, this sort of like pure, you know, creature, right? Who's not really been in Hollywood yet. Yeah.
To embody that. Dern was incredibly good at doing without making it seem

uninteresting. Right.
She'd already been in like

mask and smooth talk at this point. It's like, this is not her first movie, but I don't know, whatever.
All right, Blue Velvet, what do you guys think? It's about

a guy finds an ear. Turns out there's some fucked up stuff going on.

I mean, for me, this movie is about a guy losing his keys.

This is David's take that we're going to solve every lynch movie with the same reading. Right.
That I'm like, no, no, no, guys, I've solved it. It's actually a guy lost his keys.

That's what's going on with him.

I forgot about that bit. Thank you for reminding me.
Welcome. That's what I'm here for.

Blue Velvet. You open with incredible beginnings.
Right. The very classic.
Always sneaks up on me. The credits literally projected on blue velvet curtains.
Hacky choice.

I'm joking. I'm joking.
Wow. It's a joke.
It's a hilarious joke. Well, I'm not laughing.
That's fucking sick, what you just said. And kind of Lynchy, and it made a joke like that.

You play the song over the perfect idyllic sort of footage of the kind of thing that Lynch does revere.

The watering of the lawn and what have you.

God, yeah. At the end with like the

image of the whatever. I don't know what flowers are flowers.
Roses, probably,

and Sky.

I don't know.

I think I like that this movie came out in the 80s and that for some reason, and I'm sure that there's plenty of them. that like this is a decade where this kind of movie could come out.

It's like in the middle of the Reagan years, you could make a movie like this and Tim Burton could make his version of a movie like this and everyone could make their version of a movie like this that is like playing on the suburbs.

It just feels like they're getting away with something incredible. Back to the future.
That's the whole thing of like that movie only makes sense at the exact point in time they made it.

We devote an entire episode onto it, but the relationship between the 80s and the 50s.

was something like very specific, it felt like.

Because this movie feels like it takes place in both decades at the same time.

Yes, I was going to say it isn't until whatever it is, maybe five or six minutes in when I'm watching it and I clock Colin Blocklands. Playing Atari.
I'm trying to be like the most 80s thing.

No, it's the earring. There was a moment, and every time I've watched it, I have the same thing where I get to whatever point, however many minutes in, and I clock the earring for the first time.

It's not like the movie makes a point of revealing it. And I go like, oh, right, this is present day.
This movie is supposed to be in 1986. Right.
But only when they need it to be.

Only when they need it to be. Because like Laura Dern's fits, while great, are not taking place in 1986.
Like they're like weird poodle, like Grease costumes. True, right?

She just not narrate, nothing is bedazzled or, you know, there's no neon or whatever. But I love that.

I really love when like a movie just like doesn't care about the like, about you knowing with specificity what year it is. Oh, I love that.

Which is maybe just like a reaction to watching any like movie that takes place at a specific time that plays like the election results of that year and the background of the first scene.

So you're like, oh, okay, I guess it's the year 2000. Just not seeing enough stories set against the backdrop of the 2016 election.
Anytime I read that from like a festival review.

Oh, God. And for some reason, the filmmakers decide to specifically set this film against the backdrop.

Fuck off. I wonder if they were trying to get at something there.
It's just like so annoying, but I don't know. Maybe it's because I'm rereading a series of unfortunate events right now.

I saw that you're doing,

of course, set against the backdrop of the 2000 election.

It is very

serious of unfortunate events.

There's so much more hanging Chad stuff in the Lemony Snicket books than you remember. It's so great.
It's the VFD, a bunch of hanging Chads, where are the butterfly ballots? A bunch of, yeah,

it's all Chad's, the Sugar Bowl, hanging Chad's. It's all, but, but just like another,

like, they use the spyglass to find the Chads.

But like, they don't give a shit. Like, it's only the present day when

the author needs it to be the present day for the plot to work. And it feels like he's like, I would rather it be 1897, but we do need them to have a telegram or a phone or something in this book.

So it's whenever, whatever year you need it to be. Should I read those? Have you never read them? I was like a little too old for them, I think.
I was like 14. Unsurprisingly.

And my brother loved them. And I think I sort of was just like, well, they're Joey's thing.
Like, he reads those. I saw the movie.
Yeah, you and I disagree with that.

I did not have the same experience, not the same. Wait, did you like it? I don't think so.
No, I think you strongly. Because I feel like you strongly dislike that movie.
That's too strong.

No, I just remember being underwhelmed by it, but

while appreciating that at least had like design in it, right? Yeah, I think that movie is like an astounding work of craft that is narratively

absolute mess. I feel like you're both right.
Yeah, wait, I feel like, okay, I think my problem is Jim Carrey. I think he's also kind of a problem.

The whole thing with him is you're just getting Jim Carrey working hard. It's not an act.
It's, I don't know.

I've just said this to whoever will listen recently, and I'm so glad I found the opportunity to say it again because they made the same mistake in the second adaptation with Neil Patrick Harris.

He's not supposed to be funny. He's supposed to be scary.
It should have been Christopher Lloyd both times.

It could have been Jeremy Irons.

It makes so much sense, obviously, that some exec was like, right, this is a perfect opportunity for some comedic actor to be a goofball.

Oh, and he gets to play like six different characters. Yeah, wonderful, right? He does costume changes.
Yeah. I don't believe that Jim Carrey would kill a child.

I do believe that Jeremy Irons would kill a child. Well, Jeremy Irons would kill a child to, like, you know, get coffee faster or whatever.
Like, he would do it for the front of a line.

I mean, Carrie, I don't know. You know, I just re-watched Batman Forever.
This is the same series that I'm doing with this friend that was.

It's the same thing in that. It's like, you're getting Jim Carrey.
Like he's doing his thing. This is another.
Obviously, the man is given proper performances in his career. Yeah, yes.
But not,

hey, can you be Jim Carrey for a bit?

It's another way in which I feel very conflicted about that movie is I do think it is one of his best later comedic performances, but I think it's an absolutely horrible fit for the movie.

It's the wrong movie for it. Where I'm like, I wish he was able to bring this to anything else in that 10-year period.
But, and that's also the same year that Eternal Sunshine came out.

I'm pretty sure, as both of those are very near. Best performance period.
Yeah. Yeah.
It's nuts that those came out the same year. And outside of Jip Carrey, I think the movie's Super Bowl cast.

I love Meryl Streep as Josephine. I like, I thought all of this.
This was fucking good. It looks cool.
Timothy Small, Secretary Poe. Come on.
Cedric the Entertainer. It's great.

I don't even remember that. My thing with Carrie and Batman Forever, which I feel like I may not have said when I'm in the commentaries.
Almost suggests that we should talk about the movie Twin Peaks.

I know. I know.
Just one minute.

just one minute. Okay,

he's in Twin Peaks, Blue Velvet. Yeah, but we could talk about Twin Peaks a few times.
Oh, I thought we were just taking one more step to get back to. Nope, nope, nope.
I'm just

introduced to us as like squeerily odd scientist Edward Nigma, who's like disheveled and weird.

Okay, then he becomes the riddler and he's like, it's like his id is unleashed and he's crazy and fun and charismatic, right?

But then he switches to a third persona that's just normal Jim Carrion of Tux. Yes.
When he's like, now I'm Edward Nigma Nygma with money. And I'm like, and I'm like, where was this guy earlier?

You're supposed to be this unhinged scientist. I never connected that.
Yeah, and then he's just suddenly in a tux and he looks hot and he's like, young Jim Carrey.

And you're just like, who this guy was missing? Stop. You found it.
This is the mid-stage way where you need to live. And it's only for like one sequence when they're having a party for you.

His entrance was good. Yours.
Yeah, and you're just like, fuck, this is just Jim Carrey being a babe.

And Drew Barrymore is just flirting with him. Yeah, understandable.
Because she's probably like, this whole shtick where I'm half the guy's girlfriend and Debbie Mazar is the other half.

I can't do this forever. Like, this is bizarre.
Are you single? Depending on how the coin falls.

Drew Barrymore had to be so adjacent to a lot of guys doing their shtick. Yeah.
So true. Just had to endure the shtick.
Oh, my God. Take the check.
Including E.T., that fucking hat.

Bugging it up, getting drunk on camera. In front of kids.
Sick.

Waddling around without his pants on. I'm so glad he died.

No, no, he came back to life.

Oh, I haven't died. I haven't seen the end.

When E.T. dies, you turn it off.

You're just like, great.

Justice done.

Yeah, I am rooting for the government and E.T. Oh, yeah.
Yeah, you're rooting for key guy. Yeah, get his ass.

That guy didn't lose his keys. Anyways, I like when a movie takes place

basically where basically in the two years that the director's interested in except for when he needs something yes it's great um you you have this opening of americana and then you witness a man having a heart attack while watering his lawn As he falls to the ground, you go deeper and deeper into the dirt, and you have this sort of like mechanical industrial.

It's hold on, a little fucked up. Oh,

it's a little bit just under the surface, bugs are like doing shit. There's something so easy to mock.
It's freaking gross. But it is is so cool.
But it works. It's awesome.
Yes.

It's just also like the stock lynch noise.

It's just great.

It's like

the ambient soundtrack of Eraserhead. Right.
It's just underneath the surface. Jeffrey Beaumont summoned thus, a college kid, Jeffrey,

to attend to his father. We basically have no sense of what his life has been like since leaving this town.
Outside of knowing he went off to college.

I know in a deleted scene, there's there's a scene of him just confirming the jeffree creepy guy allegations if there were any doubt of like him doing the same thing at college just like getting closets yeah like or i i think it's like a another

jeffree voyeuristic moment where he's like watching a woman get either harassed or assaulted in some way at school and then just being like well anyways um

this is i i need i haven't actually seen the scene but i know that there was just so much of this movie that was cut.

Yeah, there's an hour of deleted stuff, which is fascinating because the movie is already two hours long. Yeah, I feel like this is often the case with Lynch.

Yeah, he had a much, much longer version of this movie that he, I think, you know, I prefer knowing less about Jeffrey. I like, like, I like that you're sort of left being like, okay, who is this guy?

I don't, I, I don't need the confirmation that he is a fucking creep because you can kind of feel it. Yeah.
Yeah.

Uh, he comes back, his father is incapacitated, but it is one of those things where it's it's like

his father's health issues have nothing to do with the plot of the film. I had misremembered, like, oh,

he has a heart attack and then he finds the ear on the ground. No,

it's completely unrelated events. It just brings Jeffrey back home.
And as you said, it's almost like Jeffrey needs some other project.

He's ostensibly back there to take care of his father, except it's a thing he seems wildly disinterested in doing. He's just kind of like, okay, he's there.
All right. Now I guess I should

be a good son and stay nearby. He also has to mind the hardware store, too.
I think that's somewhat of a motivator, too. But even then, I think we don't see him do much in the film.

No, I have said, and there's, but there's two guys named Ed that work there. Isn't that like double ed?

I,

what I liked about, I don't know, I just feel like if we're thinking of him as like 19 or 20 or however old he's supposed to be, who's just very suddenly been asked to drop whatever his hopes and dreams may have been to leave, probably can't come back.

It doesn't seem like if his dad, if the hardware shop isn't like fully functioning, it doesn't seem like he can go back to school.

And like, I don't know, I think about people I know who are in a position like that where they had to leave school for whatever reason and had to go home and like sort of reneg on like, okay,

what I thought was going to happen is not going to happen. And then I think very often you'll just get really into

some other thing to distract from the fact that your life has been very suddenly derailed and you have no control.

And I like on this viewing, not the first couple of times I watched it, but I was like, oh, I like locked in to my pervert King Jeffrey

and was like, this is a guy who like is just searching for a sense of control because the things that are out of his control are very depressing and mundane. Like he can't go to college anymore.

He has to work at a hardware store. He doesn't seem like he wants to move home, but he can't deal with it.
So he's like, I'm going to be Harriet the spy.

And that's how I'm going to cope with my life very suddenly fucking sucking. But also, I think there's this piece of,

and it's what I like about getting so little kind of like background on him, is he's never talking about how badly he wants to go back to college. He's never talking about his father's illness

derailing a specific track he thought his life was on.

He's this guy who is like very deeply in some transitional state, state, this sort of young manhood, and is fighting against maybe all sides of having to settle in any one place.

Is the coolest thing I can do to fucking take my car around to the high school and try to Jerry Seinfeld the shit out of this town? Like, what, you know, box full of pop cards.

Can I go and frost it on their asses? It's the coolest thing I could do, have a 17-year-old girlfriend.

Or does that make me king shit of like, I'm the coolest version of what I wanted to be when I was 14 and lived here? Yeah, I mean, it it feels like his instincts. I don't know.

I'm sure I'm like, project. I mean, it's easy to project onto Jeffrey because apparently I'm a Jeffrey and that bums me out.
But, like,

you just wish you long for an era when men were men, you know? You kind of like, you know,

remember. Whenever you're Jerry Seinfeld,

just do a Jerry Seinfeld.

But that, like, there's like a very like childish thing behind, like, you know, I mean, it's terrifying to find an ear, but then to be like, it's my job to figure out what is going on with this.

He almost frames it a little bit at the beginning. And obviously he uses this as a way to like get closer to Sandy of like, maybe this is my calling.

Maybe I'm the kind of guy who could like be a detective, you know, meeting her father and getting this sense of like how it invigorated him.

But the other part of it for me is just like, it's almost like an Alice in Wonderland like rabbit hole thing where it's like, here's the hole to adulthood.

Here's all this shit that's been out of reach for me when I was a child. There's all this shit going on behind closed doors, underneath the surface.

Some of it's dark, some of it's exciting, some of it's sexy, some of it's terrifying.

And, like, do I want to just know what it is? And he keeps on, he's trying very briefly to be like, what is the way to know without getting into it? To hide in a closet, to just do the recon work.

I just find the ear, but I want to know what they find.

And then very quickly, he gets too directly involved. I would be so bad at hiding in a closet.
I'm so

large and fidgety. Yeah.
I'd be so shitty. I'm so small and fidgety.

I'd be great at hiding in a closet. Jeanie,

admit it. If you found an ear on your lawn, you would be like, I got to figure out the ear.

Of course, I would. And you would go right into a closet.
You're such a Jeffrey.

And like, what he's doing is, I feel like he has the same instinct that like anonymous Redditors trying to solve a cold case in their neighborhood is trying to do

like no actual skill here except you found the ear and now you've decided, right, you want to. So I must be the guy.
There's a lot of like horrible podcasters that do the same thing. Absolutely.

Like us.

This pretty young girl who's like, I have like 10% more information. Yes.
Right. That's who I am.
Where I'm like, well, I know a little bit of gossip and I want to hear about this.

I am not touching any ears and I'm not going into any classes. I'm staying outside.
I do know how to drive a car so I can beep the horn. Yeah.
I'm great at beeping. Yes.

And there is this game of her like being very upfront that she has a boyfriend, but continuing to spend time with him.

The idea that this is like an activity gives her the safety blanket of being like, I'm not cheating on him. No, and she's near someone who's doing something interesting.

And, but without, yeah, like you were just saying, David, but like with the safety of like, I don't have to do it, but I'm a part of it and I get to be near it. And

I don't know, it seems like her, her boyfriend, I love the scene when

Mike is about to beat the shit out of Jeffrey and then

like Isabella Rosalie is there and then he's like, oh,

I'm sorry. And then just retreats.
One of his friends is like, I thought you were going to kick his ass, man.

Mike's a loser.

Mike, yeah, I hope Mike was hit by a car that night. But there's also, there's the scene where, because he, I guess he goes, first pretends to be the exterminator, right?

And then they go to Sierra Concert after that.

Yeah, he does some, you know, he does some air exterminating he sees this guy in a yellow coat he's like that's weird and so then he decides right let's and he steals a key yes right and so but he goes to

to sandy and he goes like i want to see her sing and you can see that she's kind of just like this kind of finds like a day night with him like she's starting to get more into the idea of like is this a backdoor relationship starter or even if not it's like she can sleep with this guy and then he'll just be gone like it's like he's, he's, he's the cool older guy moving through town and then he's going to go back to college.

Like it's low stakes.

You watch the energy of the way she has dressed herself up, the way she's holding herself at the nightclub, the way she is like putting date expectations on this and then watching the way that he is watching her perform.

And then when they're in the car afterwards, she's just like, this has veered off into a different direction.

I saw something change in you that you are getting involved in this to a degree that I I no longer like,

that I am means to an end for you to solve this thing.

Right. And I also get kind of jealous when my friends do stuff without me.
And so that's how I'm also like, uh, the Sandy.

Strange

at that age, she got so much further than I ever would. And also, it's so hard to tell.
I mean, like. with Jeffrey when he's like, oh, you've never had beer before.

I'm like, is that him like posturing? Is that him being a dumbass? Like, or is that him assuming that she's more worldly than she actually is? Like, you can't really tell.

Um, but you know, I don't know. I, I, I dated a college guy for a little while when I was in high school, and then I got in a car with him once, and he was smoking weed, and I started crying.

And that was then it was over.

He apologized to my mom at Dunkin' Donuts the next day. Wow,

had you told Jamie, you're like, we need to meet on neutral territory today.

Wow, they had to go somewhere safe. And I was at the Dunkin' Donuts across the street watching with my friends,

watch him apologize

to my mom for like corrupting me.

Wow. Was that the first time you had ever been around someone smoking weed? Yeah, I had a meltdown.
I didn't know what to do. It was the least cool thing.
It was the least cool thing.

He's thinking, like, all right, let me right, knock it up, knock my game up here. I'll be really cool smoking a J.
Drove us down high street while smoking weed. And I, and he's like, do you want some?

And I just burst into tears. I mean, you were, you were like a cheerleader, right? And high, right? You You were like a.

I was recently out of my back brace. I was coming into my own.
Okay. Right.
Right. I was emerging.
Yeah. I was on the dance team.

Uh, and I think that, yeah, maybe, maybe, that's why I was like, I don't know, I don't know if Jeffrey assumes she's more worldly than I think that guy definitely thought I had smoked weed before.

Um, and then, but you know what happens when you make assumptions, you apologize to my mom at Dunkin Donuts.

You shouldn't do that.

Bagel twist. Talking about him being I feel like a bagel twist right now.
I i feel like our whole life has been bagel twisted up by my actions that's what he said oh sure yeah uh

speaking of him being a a sort of um representation of lynch on screen yeah

his uh dialogue about heineken is his like lynchiest moment in this film like lynch as a man

where you're like this kind of just like this is the one good beer I love this beer so much.

And that just, I don't know, that he wrote for Dennis Hopper, like

pab's blue ribbon you're like no that's that's real man beer yeah but it's just so funny

that i don't think i had pap's blue ribbon for years after because i it doesn't exist in britain it might now because it's like cool yeah you know beer but back then it wasn't right sure and so i thought that was the coolest in the world when he said pap's blue ribbon he's supposed to be 19 vaguely jeffrey yeah sure 1920 he's in 19

in the 80s like people who are supposed to be teenagers looked 40 Like, it's really confusing.

How old was he when anytime you see like a picture of him? He's like six, I think. Yeah, he's old.
Yeah.

You see, like a picture of a baseball player from back when, and they're like, ah, here he is. A rookie of the year, 23.
He looks like an accountant in his 50s.

Like, you're just like, who is this guy?

Popeye's canonically 34 years old.

Yeah, I know.

I've really fucking been getting the money.

Oh, that's when you're like, why am I not like Popeye? I'm older than Popeye. I haven't achieved as much as iterant sailor Popeye.
Popeye kind of had a child by the time he was my age. Kind of.

I mean, there was a loose baby he sometimes tended to have. And what is your job? Sailor man.
Like, it's like he's a bad man. He had a real job.

He kind of cared for a baby.

A loose baby.

How's it going to describe Sweepy?

There's kind of just like a baby in play.

Because he's not fucking Olive Oil's kid either. No.
He's got a girlfriend and there is a baby in the mix. The baby belongs to neither of us.
I thought you were saying Sweepy has a girlfriend.

I was like, Sweepy has a girlfriend too. I wouldn't be surprised.
That guy, the things I've heard about Sweepy.

No, what I was going to say is it is just very funny to think of a 19-year-old being like, God, I love Heineken. It's so

good. It's sort of a cool European beer, right? Back when, or whatever.
I don't know. But not even do it with the energy of like, hey, can I turn you on to something really cool?

Heineken's like the great beer.

He's just sort of monologuing to himself, looking at this thing, not like I love beer, not like fucking bud light he's just like heineken is just like the most incredible beverage he's a weird guy and you do wonder right like if he like has a penis like it's one of those things where you're like yeah maybe he's just like a jerky college kid who's a little pretentious or maybe he's like a smooth skinned lizard right yes like i don't i don't totally know which is the column mclaughlin magic absolutely like it snaps changes in him when they're outside her place that night they come up with a plan where it's like i'm going in the closet you're staying outside, then drive the car home, just honk four times before she comes in.

Insane that he

pees in her toilet. I know that that needs to happen, but it never does.
That for me is the most shocking part of the movie: is that he has the audacity to pee in an apartment he's broken into.

It's key evidence of him being a dang-ass freak. And also kind of an idiot.
Sloppy as hell. Yes, exactly.

Not the Nancy Drew would not recommend, right the hardy boys don't go around peeing in random toilets does he kick the seat up or does he leave it down i don't let me review the tape uh he obviously then hides in the closet and watches an insanely upsetting thing unfold i mean this is like a 15 minute it almost feels like sequel i mean it feels interminable while watching it which is by design It's like, you know, oh, you got what you asked for, buddy.

You know, like, you, you know, you thought you were going to see something titillating or like lurid and exciting, like a crime movie from the 50s or whatever.

And instead, you see just like the most, you know, jarring, upsetting behavior from an otherwise great guy, Frank Booth, you know, like, you know, in public.

Let's not say great guy, a great podcaster.

The whole thing with Frank Booth is that guy's never chill.

I will say this out loud. He doesn't have an off switch? Yeah, you don't see Frank Booth at any point.
It's like sometimes Tony Soprano is just sitting there being normal. Sure.

Like Frank Booth's never just like, hey guys, what do you want to do today? Should we like go to the movies? Sometimes Frank throttles down into hysterical crying. That's his

range. I'm just like, how does this man run a criminal outfit? All he does is scream at everybody and off gas, like he's scary and beat people up.

Yeah, he's scary, but he's also like weirdly, I don't know, I'm not harmless, but he's so vulnerable at so many points where you're like, why doesn't someone just push this guy over? Yeah.

Like what he's, he's so fallible, but like is not, I don't know. It's weird.

I wrote down during the whole, I mean, that the horrific sequence, it's just like Laura Mulvey aneurysm like scene because it's, it's horrible,

but it feels like there is intent behind the horribleness. I, I don't know, but it's horrible.
I hate watching it. It's tough to watch.

It's arresting, obviously.

You do, you know, I think the lynch is putting you in the closet and you're like i want to stop looking at this but also like i'm you know i'm compelled to look at this well and she finds him and his vulnerability is really frightening yeah she finds him before so like she finds him because he's an idiot he's spying on her in her underwear having emotionally intense phone conversations the exact level of thing he thinks he wants to witness and then she finds him and take makes him take his clothes off which i feel like is probably also something he like has some dark desire, right?

Like that she's unlocking here. And then it's like she's now starting to seduce him.
Frank is here. You're back in the closet.

And now this horrible assault happens, knowing that he is watching it and she knows he's seeing it.

And the whole thing does feel, I don't, I don't know, like, this is

the point in the movie where for V, you're just like, oh, this whole thing is just like a bad dream that is not going to end. He can't get out of it.
He can't forget it too, obviously, right?

He can't just be like, well, that was weird.

No, and what he's basically pierced together at this point is that this woman's husband, who is probably the owner of the ear he found, and her son are being held captive

in order to control her into some form of sexual slavery. And then it's like you see him like switch again to,

I don't know. I mean, Jeffrey's so frustrating.
And that's why I hate being a Jeffrey.

He's, but like that, he has like his, his baby boy brain switches to like, I'm Harriet the Spy to like, oh, I'm a romantic hero and I'm going to save you.

And I definitely have the skills and ability to do so. And it's going to be me.

I'm not going to seek out like the appropriate amount of outside help, really, outside of the detective, like outside of another cop. Like, it's just, I don't know, he's, he's a mess.

But it's the other part of this movie that I think made a lot of people uncomfortable in trying to understand the psychology of the Dorothy character is it almost feels like she is trying to train him into doing that, into thinking that way.

Like she is trying to develop some sort of protector for herself.

Because at the end of the day, I do feel like she wants her husband back.

Yeah, I mean, I don't think she's like in love with Jeffrey.

I'm bummed out for, honestly, I'm bummed out for Sandy at the end. I feel like she's gotten a real raw deal ending up with Jeffrey, especially.

And then you hear what's in the cutscenes and you're like, Sandy's fucked.

I feel for Sandy. Her husband's a flop.
Yeah, he's a flop.

But with Dorothy, yeah, I guess it's,

it seems like he needs someone who's fucking fighting for her. She needs an ally.
She has nobody. Right.
She has some control, quote unquote, over Frank in that, like, he needs her, right?

Like, so that's how she's surviving, but obviously he needs her in this depraved way that's very upsetting. Uh, and right, Frank is, I mean, sorry,

Jeffrey is at least

an uncomplicated hero for her. Well, this, like, twisted sense of do-gooderism, he has in his

mind of what he's what's driving him is something I think she recognizes she could use to her advantage of

will then train him towards my needs and and how to best kind of tackle these

also just like telling on himself it's just like

you know because he's you know Jeffrey then has this like dual relationship neither of which really like he's dating Sandy but he's got nothing for her obviously and she's just this like chaste object right that's like the noir side.

Yeah. Right.
And then Dorothy, he has this like relationship with that's like completely just, you know,

upsetting. I can't.
Yeah, but yeah. He's going to use the word over and over again.
But like even the concept of like, here's an idea for a movie I've always wanted to hide in a closet.

Like he's pitching something that is like a penthouse letter, right? Like you won't believe what happened to me. He's also just like pitching like at a piss guy.

He's just like, I've always kind of wanted to fuck my mom. They're like, well, no kidding.
But here's the thing. He's pitching something that feels like some sort of dark fantasy, right?

Some dark, unspoken fantasy.

And then you're like, if that were to play out in reality, one of two things would happen, basically, right?

One is someone finds you and they hit you over the head with a fucking rolled-up newspaper a thousand times and they call the cops on you. And they're like, what the fuck are you doing?

And they kick you out of their apartment.

The second option is something sexual happens in the way you're fantasizing about, but that happening is probably an extension of there being incredibly complicated, fucked up psychosexual dynamics already at play.

And you've now entered into a much darker world, which isn't to say a criminal conspiracy, but you're like entering into very complicated dynamics that have been built over years and different relationships.

And that's basically what he finds himself in. It's like, oh, if you want the woman to like...

discover you in the closet and demand that you take all your clothes off and like control you, which is clearly this thing he wants. That doesn't just happen to fulfill your fantasy.

That is the business end of like 20 years of behavior. Right.
There, I, I don't know, like, I, I, it like takes me back to the,

like, Ebert's original criticism of it, where it's

like

Dorothy's character, I can make it make sense in my head. I don't think it intuitively makes sense.
I think that's what, right, people like Ebert were bumping up against.

It's like, what is this character? This isn't a real person. And does she exist just to serve the movie? Right.
This is this object of torture in the movie. It seems terrible.

Which I, which I think, because there's a strong case for that. And there's also, I don't know, like when I'm watching Door, I mean, it's, I don't know.

I'm glad that David Lynch has inspired women to make their own movies inspired by him because, you know, I think all of the, yeah, everyone in this movie, but it's particularly the, you know, the women are

operating on David Lynch dream logic. Yes.
and

it's true all the way through his work yeah and and it's like

particularly egregious in this one but that that dorothy is i i i agree griffin like she's looking she desperately needs an ally and it seems like she's you know in the dreamy horror like she has the world's worst life and she is both you know, emotionally desperate for connection and also logistically desperate for an ally.

And like both of those things are happening at the same time. And she immediately knows that Jeffrey's a mark and that he is like

a pervert who needs to be scolded and then, you know, like

exactly. Like it's like

he's a tool. He's in the in the truest sense.
Which I do think is there's an interesting, I mean, look, it is deeply uncomfortable.

And it asks questions of the audience that the movie's not going to answer, but that are uncomfortable, right? Of like, is she she telling him to hit her?

Because to some degree, she is trying to use her wiles, let's say, to train him to be menacing enough that he actually could possibly stand up against these guys, right?

It's not like this is her way to like fucking Mr. Miyagi him and train him to be a great fighter, but she's trying to like weaponize some darkness in him.

to bring that a little more to the surface to make him less of like a weird blank boy.

Or there is just a nature of, and I think it's as Lynch's career plays out, as he explores these things in many of his films, it starts to be a thing that people bump on less because they're like, he's not using these elements wantonly, these are things that he's clearly interested in and like actually psychologically engaging with.

Um, but these like lines in sort of situations of like abuse and assault where wires get like inexplicably crossed between things that are done to you and things that you now need to reclaim and own.

Yeah, which especially like in

like cross over in dreams constantly. Yes.
I like why am I having a dream about that? I hate that. Yeah.
Right. And like, why am I having a dream about watching something horrible and enjoying it?

Like that, just like all of these like horrible things that you're seeing, it feels like, oh, I've probably had a, not, not this dream, but a dream where I feel guilty for enjoying something horrible.

And so it's like, it makes sense. I don't know.

It's interesting. No one does it like him.
And it's horrible to watch. And I would understand if no one ever wanted to look at it and thought it was fucking disgusting.

And also, I just don't go to David Lynch movies for like an understanding of women's sexuality.

I feel like a huge through line in his work for me is that he obviously does not fucking get women's sexuality. He's recording that feeling.

He'll never get it. He's almost 80.
Like he's never going to understand

a horniness that is not his own. And beyond that, I just always read it as like a somewhat general befuddlement with women, period.

Like the way you look at his relationships and how they have played out across his life, where almost every one of his marriages, long-term relationships, whatever, ends with the woman just being like, I throw up my hands.

Right. That there's not some horrible blow up or right.
Right. But they're like, yeah, I mean, there's no way in with that guy.
Right. There's no way.

right and that his response is like i don't know why these women keep marrying me can i have more tuna and feta cheese there's i think we ate that every day for like years smacking crisp bacon and black coffee i don't know what just happened i almost went to linda richmond sorry tuna and feta excellent separately unbearable to consider together and also just

stinky and punishing for anyone around when he was on charlie rose our favorite interviewer your favorite interviewer my favorite person yeah exactly you're showing a t-shirt with him right now i saw a couple tattoos yes and you're surrounded by uh black curtains

sleeve yeah uh he told charlie rose like here's your rose sleeve i call him my rose curtain he's interrupting someone on your arm um

he's asking their name for the fourth time on camera and the show is called what uh he told him i eat tuna you make tomatoes feta cheese and olive oil every day for lunch like that that was his lunch That's what fucking Roger Ebert should have been upset about.

Roger Ebert should have written four pieces about that lunch.

He should have been struggling with it for 20 years. Yes.
I just tried the tuna and feta again. I still don't get it.
I understand to some people.

I feel the same way about tuna and feta as I did in 1986. I'm sorry.
I wish I understood. I think the meal is terrible.
I feel terrible for Isabella Rossellini.

I guess I haven't seen Mulholland Drive in a couple of years. So I can't speak to it in like a fresh sense.
But I feel like what I,

for all of the horrific violence against Dorothy specifically,

it's not as if he, and this feels like a weak argument, but like, it's not as if he is adverse to showing that same to show sexual violence against Kyle McLaughlin, too, which I know is shown worse in cutscenes where it's like explicitly

implied that he was

assaulted.

But that

in Blue Velvet, I don't think he's at all pretending that he understands the women that he's writing. I think the cheapest writing for

any of the women in this movie is when Sandy instantly forgives Jeffrey. That's where I'm just like, come on.
She's 17. She's 17.

But you have to have your mom take Jeffrey to Dunkin' Donuts. Like you cannot just take

this lying down. Like you don't need to be mature enough to have the conversation, but you got got to call in a ringer.

That was the worst rating for women in Blue Pollet. It's not like he has like,

but those undeniable, cool, bad boy vibes. You're like, this guy has become so weird and broken that I think if you're her, it's like beyond forgiveness.
You're just like, I'm weirded out by him.

I don't want to be around him anymore.

I'm going to go to college.

Well, she should go to college, not his college, right? But like, she's rescued him. Obviously, this is at the end of the movie, everyone is kind of rescued.

And there's this kind of, you know, dream-like, like, oh, everything's better now. Yeah.

And it's not hard for someone to maybe put on their monocle and look at the movie and be like, is everything better now?

Like, just because we got rid of like a couple bad apples in Wilmington, North Carolina, wherever the fuck we are, like, no. Lumberton.

It's a real place. Yes, it's a real place.

Laura Derm was such like a preternaturally gifted actor at the beginning of her career that she was able to help a lot of filmmakers get away with incredibly underwritten characters.

Because she could take it off.

I think the woman in mask is the exact same thing, where you're just like, just kind of perfectly angelic dream girl who represents some sense of innocence and kindness and whatever.

That movie is like

mask sucks. Kind of dumb.
We agree on this. Mask sucks so hard.
Few movies bum me out more in every sense.

Well, it bums you out because you like the director, and this is actually one of his better regarded movies, but it's like it's Peter Brigdanovich, but like it's not. It's

a sappy, shitty movie.

That's, I just think it's shitty. Does she make the face in Mask? Is this the first? My question was: is this the first time in her career she makes the face? That's a really good question.

Does she like, I was sort of, I thought the movie, I kind of was like,

I forget. Does she? And then

she saves it and then she makes it for like 30 consecutive. And not to be like, because because I'm pro Sandy.
I want her to, you know, not

get stuck with, it just feels like watching someone from high school end up with some guy and you're just like, ah, but you're so great.

Well, I think this is sort of what I'm saying, that I feel like she.

Lord Dern was good at taking a character that was sort of underwritten and idealized to serve the other characters or the story or whatever the fuck and playing it in a way where you're like, I know this type of girl.

Like she could single-handedly make it into the real version of that person in a way that elevated a lot of people's material. Because unfortunately, Sandy is being kind of unreasonable.

Like I understand why she feels so betrayed. Dorothy is also being unbelievably weird and like David Lynch wish fulfillment dialogue where she's like, you're, what is it?

Like you're, you're, not your pee-pee is inside me. Your poison is inside me.
You're whatever's inside me.

Um, and you know is just is standing in her living room naked but it's like sandy you are cheating on your boyfriend also like let's say there there's faults on both sides not you know you're not breaking into apartments and he put his disease in me his disease disease

weirdly hotline yeah regarding

kind of not like a classic like

you have that quote on your facebook page when you're in college

when i was in college well

uh i didn't have it on i'm just saying like I knew a couple of cool people who.

It's also wild that this, I mean, I feel like this is said far too often, but there are only seven years between this and Jurassic Park. Yeah.

And she basically continues to play some version of like a girl or a young woman or someone on the cusp of womanhood right up until Jurassic Park. Well, no.
And then everyone's like, okay, fine.

She's a grad student. We did it.

I mean, I guess that's sort of what she's doing in Wild at Heart, but it's also, you know, that's a grown-up version of it, I guess. I don't know.
Can I ask a question to the group?

Okay, so a thought I'm having about behavior of Dorothy and of Frank and these other characters, something I don't feel like we've touched upon is the drug element. Right.
Frank is a drug dealer.

That is largely what he's doing. And I, you know, this is never answered.
Maybe it's in the deleted scenes. I don't know.
But I always wondered, how did Dorothy get involved with Frank?

And I don't want to like blame

her, but I just, I always kind of have this sense she works in a nightclub. Maybe her and her husband at some point started buying drugs from him.
I mean, I was like, you know what I mean? Like,

there's, there's, they're never gonna, there's never gonna be an answer to this, but I, I do, I sort of think that there's Frank has a hold over everyone because of his access to because it's the same thing with Ben.

Like, who is this guy, right? Ben Posley.

Yeah, I'm doing better.

You just turned it on him immediately. He just asked a question, David.
Where we're like, what is this? What's this like lair? And who is this person?

And it's like, it does feel like it's another of Frank's thralls, right?

I think the answer is it is some connection through the nightclub, whether or not one or both of them at some point got involved in the drugs themselves.

Frank is absolutely the kind of guy who would have some very deep relationship with whoever was owning or running that club. No question he was around.

Frank also just like kind of has a deep relationship with everybody in that he's so intense that, like, if he's talking to you, you're like freaking out and he's like, ah, and you're just, you're, you're in it.

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He's not avoidable. I was almost thinking, this is like maybe a poor comp, but I was thinking about like Jennifer Tilly's relationship to Joey Pants and Bound,

where you're just like, she's kind of like, she's

collaterally

with this person. Right.
Yeah, she's being treated like collateral,

but she's a person and and she's like going to navigate her way out of it. Yeah.
On top of the Molly Sims quote that will forever ring in my ears.

The other thing I kept thinking about while watching this movie is I feel like he says versions of this all the time, but Mark Marin always says when people ask him, like, why do you think so many comedians become drug addicts or have like addiction problems or whatever, that his response is like, that's everyone.

Like you, you frame this as like, well, there are a lot of notable examples of comedians, but he's like, do you realize how many like construction workers have have drug crime?

There's a lot of known examples of people, sure, having addiction. And in the same way, it's like Hollywood, there's so much perversion.

And it's like, they made years of like to catch a predator and they'd go to any random town and people would not stop driving up to that house, you know?

And this is like the kind of thing this movie is about, which is like, you could basically go into any town and unmask some low-level crime ring.

There is almost always going to be in a town like this, maybe not as colorful, some Frank type figure and some horrible things going on around that guy.

Even in just a town that doesn't feel like, well, this is obviously a bad town or a bad part of town or whatever.

You're like, you're never too far from someone who is selling drugs because you're never too far from people who desperately want to be on drugs all the time.

And that person is always going to have this weird web. I want to use this as an opportunity to step over to Ben.

Not Hosley, the character in this film, which I do feel like in a lot of ways is like the pinnacle of the movie, where I think people go,

either this guy has just transcended to a plane that no one has ever hit before,

or the people who are out on this movie are like, now he's just fucking jerking off. Now he's just doing weird shit.

But the notion of like Hopper coming in, kind of like trying to Bigfoot Kama Glaughlin and just be like, oh, you want to live in this like crazy world? Let's do crazy shit.

I got Jack Nance and fucking Chucky with me. My posse is me, Eraserhead, and Chucky.
Let's, let's fucking have a night on the team. Let's get in a car and go as fast as the car goes.
Yeah.

And it's like, here are my crazy guys. You know who's the craziest guy I know? Ben.
You're going to love him. He's fucking splendid.

And you're talking up this exquisite guy, Ben, and you're just like, who the fuck could Ben be?

And then to be introduced to like this very like poised, delicate, classy, like sort of like lizard-like Dean Stockwell, caked in like makeup. It's awesome.
Singing into a light bulb,

holding in a cigarette holder. Yes.
You know, yeah, wearing like a big smoking jacket.

And it's this absolute zag from the movie where you're like, somehow, this guy has now become the scariest character in the entire film. I don't think he's the most dangerous character in the film.

No, but he is scary because this is where these, this kid is being imprisoned, basically.

And he's terrifying because he's so nonchalant and he's so, he's like a weird

animatronic.

This guy, why is frank friends with him when he punches kyle yes you're like oh wow this guy is actually also really scary like i feel like that's a moment where it really turns and you're like okay wait why are all these people living here

they're they're keeping the kid hostage here like what is this situation i i'm i guess almost glad david lynch did not like attempt to help us understand what the women on the fringes of this room were thinking or like how they they get brought into this.

But there's other people there, and they're, you know, like

clearly fearing retaliation. They're not going to come to this kid's rescue.

And I want their Rosencrantz and Gilden Sterner dead. I'm just like, how the fuck? Like, what's their deal? Yeah, how are they stuck here? You want a Ben's Place sitcom.

This town's so boring that it's like, what do we do tonight? Do we go to the bar? I hate the bar. Do we, you know, do you want to go hang out at Ben's? It's just always such a weird vibe.

Someone's always trapped.

It's the fucking drugs, though, man.

If you get involved in these scenes

and you get

to hang out with those off two people,

you really do end up just trapped. And once again,

every town basically has some version of this.

Guys, we have to step out. I don't think this is a realistic.

It is. It's real.
I've seen it myself. Guys, have any of us ever done drugs?

I have done drugs. Be honest.
I have definitely never hung out out with Jen.

This was actually. I don't know if you've hung out with this, Ben.
I just caught you dead to right.

I will say, you know, I, I've usually it's just like a boring guy talking to you, not someone who's like, hey, can I do my Roy Harvest now?

I've definitely had moments in my 20s where I've hung out with a scene of people where we were all extremely high on goofballs. What?

That you did goofballs? I did. What is in them? What? I still don't know anything about it.
They're a little, they're shaped like Goofy's head, obviously.

Uh-huh.

All right, Griffin, be quiet for a second while I speak. I, David Sims, am now speaking to tell you about,

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So Harry sent me a nice fancy razor with a nice ergonomic handle. I got the Truman set, which I assume is an homage to the 1940s president Harry Truman, right?

I don't know about that, but it's got this no-slip grip. It's got a weighted core and it's got three German engineered blade cartridges with a flex hinge and a lubricating strip.

It's a very fancy razor that like really feels weighty weighty in your hands uh you get a foaming shave gel for rich lather with this kit you get a travel cover you get blades that are designed for your face so it's just it's gorgeously designed the packaging is really nice everything is really simple and and colorful and just clearly well made

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I've definitely been hanging around with really scary people being extremely intoxicated and like the way that everyone's acting. I mean, it's like, it's so dreamlike and it's so scary.

And it's not like a specific drug. It's like, it's not like you can define it as like they're all on like uppers or they're all on acid, but it's just this vague, scary, menacing kind of

like I've got, I can, I'm so fucked up, I can go really far.

I am not a drug person, but I have had nights where like in my 20s, where I was like, I don't know how I ended up in this room and I don't know if I die here or if this is just goofy.

What you're saying of just being like, everything that's happening here is not presented as being dangerous, but the vibes are horrible.

And I don't know any of these people and I don't know why I'm here.

The closest that I've ever gotten to that feeling, because I was like trying to search for it, like, not with the threat of violence, but with the like, oh, I can't leave is like, uh,

in like 20, I don't know, sometime in the back half of the 2010s, agreeing to do a random guy's podcast, taking three buses to like deep North Hollywood

for no money. And then realizing that I was going to the guy's house recording in his bedroom and the topic of the podcast was the worst thing that's ever happened to you.
Jesus.

And then you're just like, oh my God.

Like, and it was clear that it was like, I was not leaving this apartment until I told this guy the worst thing that it had, like, or it was just like the, I don't know.

Like, remember when there were podcasts that were just like. Traumatic memories.
They were oversharing in like the most insane way. Every ass copy.
Kind of making it weird, if you will. Yeah.

Just making it a little bit weird. Except for like what the vibes but like what if that person was nobody

right

they just messaged you and was like no

i was i was like

eight years ago

david uh cool

she was just a kid no i i was like 20 i was like 24. i don't know i don't know i was like wow this is a great opportunity in los angeles california

this guy has an address in los angeles california that is the city of dreams he's in the noho arts district I better get down there.

But just, yeah, like a feeling of a full hostage situation with nobody you know, or like, or I feel like it's even scarier to be in a room with one person you kind of know. Yes.

And you, you know, them well enough, but like you don't ended up here. Right.
Yeah. But not well enough to not be sure that they would like to be able to do that.
It's like take them aside. Right.

And be like, what, can I get out of here? I feel like that's always what it was for me of like, I thought I knew this person pretty well. Yeah.

And now in this context, I'm questioning whether I know this person.

Honestly, to me, the scariest thing was always being in a car with someone like that, which happened to me a couple of times where suddenly you realize, like, this person's driving.

I actually don't know them very well. They're driving in a crazy way, and I can't get out of this.
Like, at least in a house, you usually,

I mean, I guess there's this sort of pre-Uber era where you're kind of like, what if I like, you have to go and I don't know where the fuck I am?

Um, but uh, yeah, I the thing with Ben, to bring it back to Blue Velvet, is he's also, he is like, he's effeminate and like kind of you know he's got this kind of like

queer vibe to him right that is I do feel part of the Frank thing that is specific like Frank is not this ultra masculine terror he's this odd sensitive poetic terror like Lynch is saying and Ben clearly like awakens the same feelings in him right like that's what he's seeking is some weird like transcendent emotion what's also so much and it's very interesting to see Lynch kind of like, you know, poke at that, not too intently.

I think so much about our friend Chris Gethard and the his scared straight story that has been part of his specials and albums and books at different points in time, where he went and participated in the scared straight program in high school.

And all the tough guys were like, just fucking wait until you meet Crazy Chris.

And Crazy Chris came out and he was like 60 pounds and like seemed fairly a feat.

And there was the feeling of like, if these guys are scared of this guy,

this guy has just become the scariest guy in the world because everything I assume culturally is that those guys would beat the shit out of this guy.

And instead, they're all cowering in relation to him.

Where you're like, right, there's some power dynamic within Ben where he's the exact kind of guy you think that like fucking Brad Duriff would be punching and he's not.

That scene like on paper, you're just,

what the fuck is happening? This is ridiculous. Right.

Yeah, but but we all have been in a room that feels like this room it's it's awesome it is kind of the coolest shit you can do i the big news that i have to tell you guys is that bulldog and gil will be returning to frasier for season two on paramount plus okay they got him wait did you just get that news yes i just got i just got the wait sorry i'm colleagues at the university wait jamie what happened i just got i've been sitting on this for 10 minutes okay and i've so i know i've been checking my if it's that bulldog and gil have joined frasier i did david in fact, break that story.

That is really, I am so thrilled they got a season two, I will say. It's funny to me that they didn't get the first season.

Were those guys busy? They were, there's no way they were busy. I got,

I've gotten three texts.

All the same New York Post article. Joey Chestnut is out of 2024 Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest in Beef over Vegan.
Okay, so I also got this

word beef. And I was worried about bringing it up in front of you because I felt like it's like, this is too much for Jamie to handle right now.

But he signed a deal with impossible i think it's a brilliant move i think it's a brilliant move i love joey i've been saying this i don't want him to unfollow me on instagram i love the man i think he's an extra

occasional slide with joey allege and it's gonna it's gonna happen for me someday

uh but no i i think it's a brilliant move i think that everyone needs to just get out of uh the contest like right like the contest has become kind of like they're too big for it in a way like it's like this petty dictator thing right yeah he can make more money outside of the contest because before i think his his only sponsorships right now are pistachio nuts and dude wipes and you're like he can dude wipes is an amazing fit because he's a messy boy dude wipes is also such a successful company it drives me insane wild it drives me insane that it worked i don't know how it worked they were all on shark tank i saw the pitch Oh, right.

Yes. And everyone else is like, so it's just baby wipes and they put dude on the packaging? No, I mean, they reek.
Have you ever, have you ever taken a whip for the dude wipe?

But it was one of those examples where everyone else is like, this is silly. And Cuban is sitting there silently.
And he's like, I totally get it. You guys are brilliant.

I'm offering $80 million for 1%.

And everyone's like, the fuck are you talking about? And then he wrote it all the way to the bank.

It worked. And Joey Chestnut is one of our nation's messiest boys.
They wanted it.

I don't really see how pistachios come into it, but I mean, go off, Joey, obviously. Is the beef,

as it were, uh-huh, that Chestnut wanted to be able to use impossible franks in the competition, and they said no, so he bowed out.

That is, I believe that's it, yeah, yes, yeah, because it's a Nathan.

He's like, I am now bound to eating these kinds of franks, and Nathan's just like, We have to eat Nathan's, and he's like, Then I can't do it, but right, Jamie, I think, is suggesting maybe that he was looking for a way out.

I think that that is it, yeah, I think it's a smart way for Joey to bow out, especially when you know it's it in my insider opinion, uh, it's unlikely he will top his record of 76

anyways. So he should just take the money around.
He's bigger than them at this point anyway. Yeah, he is the hot dog eating.
And he can change. I think it's like.
Kobayashi retired.

Kobayashi retired. He, I still, he lobby justice.
We love Kobayashi, but I hope he's enjoying his retirement. And I like that Joey's in his like vegan.
era.

I feel like that just challenges who, who did we think Joey was? You know, there's going to be backlash for Joey. That's kind of my favorite.

Bailey has power to to change the conversation i know he's a powerful man let's like examine masculinity in new ways i'm sorry that i just compared joey chestnut to ben and franken uh no they're similar blue velvet

no no you're right i just want to throw out that um

bulldog and gil of course aren't the only major additions no i mean parrot young already announced is back as roz but then here's the thing i didn't know career grammer is being added to the cast this season as roz's daughter hold on so kelsey grammer's daughter who i'll say it looks a lot like kelsey Grammer, is playing not his daughter on the show, is just going to be in scenes with him with his face.

Here's the fucking old daughter.

I think she's a very pretty woman, but I think it is similar to old dogs where Travolta keeps pointing to this daughter who looks exactly like him and saying, hey, Revan Williams, what's the deal with your fucking daughter?

Wait, I need to look up.

Greer Grammer. She looks like Kelsey Grammer.
Good name. The good name.
Greer. I just always think it's weird when a celebrity casts their child to play not their child.

She's not the one who's in Richard Marty. Strives.
It's the one who looks so much like. Yeah, I was going to say it's Spencer Grammar who has more of a Kelsey Grammar look.
I still think it's weird.

I just am like, they got Gil and Boltock, okay? David's got him. It's thrilling.
Sorry.

I haven't watched a single second of the

plus reboot of Fraser War. I'm sorry.
Should I? I've seen it at least five out of ten. And you gave it about five out of ten? I gave it, yeah, maybe generously, yeah.

They're back in Boston, but Cheers has closed. They're back in Boston.
They go out of their way to go like Cheers. No, that fucking place closed forever ago.

That had to have been a financial dispute because the bar they're at fucking sucks. Yeah.
It's yeah.

He is set at a bar. I'm like, exactly.
What the fuck? I mean, obviously,

yeah, no. Paramount bus is like set in Boston at a bar.
The cheers part?

What are you fucking kidding? You know how much that would cost us? Then we have to start giving residuals to everybody. And all the the supporting characters from the original show come back?

No, except for season two. Okay, okay.
Okay, okay. I think, and you know, no, you're right.
It's the kind of movie where people will get mad of us if we continue on this.

I just think the Bulldog News is big. I just think anytime we do an episode on a movie and end up talking for 20 minutes about an unrelated sitcom, people are thrilled.
Yes. People are

this specific thing. Yes.

Being very well received. Okay.
So in the movie, we left off where we meet Ben, he he sings the song, and then they go to a lumber yard.

David Lynch movies are so fun to just lay out narratively. Frank covers himself with lipstick,

kisses Kyle

a bunch, and then beats the shit out of him. Sure.
Obviously, Frank's relationship to everyone is like domination and submission, right? He just keeps flicking between like daddy and baby.

And so like he wants to come in and beat the shit out of you. Then he wants to like chew on blue velvet and cry while you sing to him or whatever.
The drummer, um, yeah,

uh, so he's this right, he's this like endless nightmare, but yes, what do you guys make? Should I put that down as what I'm looking for in my dating profile

the way you just worded it? Sure, go ahead.

Uh, you know, all of this is great, I mean, but it's just this feeling of like, yeah, this guy going deeper and deeper and deeper into a thing that he's never going to be able to come out of, not even because he can't escape these people, but it's just like you now know shit you can't unknow.

Yeah, yeah, he's a like, I mean, he's a Freudian fucking nightmare.

Uh, he can't stop screaming, he needs to do hallucinogenics in order to get access to want to be baby who wants mommy because he's too ashamed to be baby who wants mommy without

his little mask.

You're like, yeah, this is like everyone. Part of him wants to be daddy to a teenager, yeah, right.
He's a complicated man,

he's got range.

Yeah, in in the, it's like specifically in the space of Dorothy's apartment. It's just like the Freud zone.

Like you're just exploring like all of your most disgusting, like Oedipal feelings in this one kind of crusty room. This room that feels like it has carpeted walls.

It reminds me of that apartment in North Hollywood, where I had to say the worst thing that ever happened to me.

And even I just love there's something about like how well lit and sort of like tiled the kitchen is as this offshoot and then the rest of the room just feels like a dressing room like her apartment feels like a backstage area yeah I mean it's just yeah in the it's like having like a knife held to his dick is clearly something that excites him that we're going backwards though we don't need to go backwards no you're but like it's just like the freudian right the freudian zone like thing that's it and but then immediately it's like no now you're a baby and you have to go hide like and like run around naked which feels like again like nightmare shit dream shit like oh, God, suddenly I'm naked.

Like, suddenly I'm like unprotected. Anyway, but it's like, it's, I don't know.

Frank is funny because he's like, there's, it's nuts, but it's also like coherent enough that you're like, okay, David Lynch actually sort of does have a coherent idea of who this guy is.

And then if you try to like apply that same logic to Dorothy, the takeaway is like, I don't know. Like, he has no idea.

Yeah. But like, Frank feels weirdly

like, I mean, obviously deviant, but like it was more, I don't know, like, re-watch, I was like, it's more coherent, like, you're just like, yeah, it's more coherent than I remembered it.

I would agree with it. I have that feeling re-watching each of these for the podcast.
I was saying right before we started recording, that, like, each of these movies has played more coherent.

I don't want to say traditional. This movie is more straightforward than maybe.

Yes.

At least in terms of the story it tells and the way that it moves.

Obviously, there's stuff like the In Dreams sequence where, like, you say, people are probably standing up in the theater and being like, This is silly. Like,

um, but

uh, there's even, yeah, this discovery, you know, the twist that comes is like the guy in the yellow jacket works for Frank.

He's a cop, he steals drugs and gives them to Frank to sell, and like, you know, keeps rival drug dealers at bay or whatever.

Like, you know, he has a guy inside someone that steals drugs, he's a really bad guy, he's a bad guy. You don't think it's good? I think it's quite bad, and uh, I don't think it's good, right?

And then it's good. It says the guy who did goof balls.

You know what means a lot.

That's when you know you're with some, when you're with the goof troop. You're like looking around and you're like,

who am I in a car with?

And then there's a sequence we referenced earlier where it sort of all comes to a head. Like,

like Frank, like, you know, chases them down, but then it's like Sandy's ex-boyfriend is there.

And then like Dorothy just like appears naked and beaten to hell yeah and Mike like runs away and like it kind of feels like everything right like like the evil world is like coming into the normal world right like you know it's not like uh divided anymore made sense to me I mean we've talked about before but this feels like one of those historic examples of someone getting an Oscar nomination for another movie and it feeling a little unspoken that it's like we all know this is like kind of a blue velvet nomination it was both it was both

have you seen Hoosiers? I have, yeah, yeah. He's amazing.

No, no, no. I don't say this was any.

And it's the thing about Hoosiers, I think, that spoke to people is rather than playing like an ether huffing psychopath, right? He's playing a guy getting over alcohol

happening with him one year felt like what a perfect sort of here is modern Dennis Hopper. Right.
But it's also, it's about a guy drying out.

And you know, then personal narrative of that was cool to people. Hoosiers, have you seen Hoosiers? I think you've seen Hoosiers.

Fucking rock. I mean, I'm a big Anspa guy.
Rudy is my jam. Rudy, to me, I like Hoosiers for being less cheesy than Rudy.
I mean, but I get it. You know, it's the...

Check your height again. How tall are you? That's some real fucking six foot.
So I like the basketball movie. Yeah.

But Hoosier's just the start of that movie where it's just like, it's five in the morning and it's just Gene Hackman in a farmhouse and there's like dew on the grass and he's just like.

Every all you guys just start passing the ball to each other and you're just like, God, this is someone's idea of America. Like, Like, you know what I mean? Like, that's just like so fucking exciting,

even if it doesn't exist.

Hopper amazing in that. But yeah, he got the dual knot.
Yeah. Yeah.
This movie was nominated just for best director, right? Yeah, it was another loan. It happened to Lynch twice, I think.

Yeah, because that happens with Mohan Drive too. But anyway, what else happens

at the end of the movie? Obviously, Sandy like dumps Jeffrey, realizing that he's basically been cheating on her with Dorothy. My secret lover.

Yeah, but then you're also, you're like, Sandy, you've been what of Mike? Not that I'm rooting for Mike, but she's been cheating on Mike the whole damn movie. I feel bad for Mike's.

I don't feel bad for Mike. That guy stinks.

But I do, I do appreciate that Mike is revealed to be a cowardly 17-year-old boy. That scans.
Sure, sure. It's not like he should have been heroic.
Yeah.

In the end, it's, you know, he's a flop, but so is Jeffrey. I think that, like, Sandy is in the process of, you know, she's like a teenage girl.

She's not realized that there's more than one kind of guy who sucks. And she's just, she's realizing the first, maybe this is like her first boyfriend.
She's like, oh, this guy is kind of boring.

He's kind of possessive. He sucks.
I got to move on. So what about a guy in a jacket?

And you're like, no, the guy in the jacket also sucks, but I understand your instinct, but give it a couple of years. He sucks as well.
You know, so it's just, I get it.

She's, she's, she's figuring it out. She needs to understand the range, the tapestry.
At least she's not dating a guy in a yellow jacket

or the well-dressed man, which is, of course, a Frank wearing insane eyebrows and a mustache and a wig, looking insane.

That is, I feel like that is often cited to me when I was learning about this movie as like the big scary shot is when you see Dennis Hoffer in the wig

down the stairwell.

And people related that to me as like, it's really unnerving, like in that classic Lynch way. I see it as more goofy.
Same. But I get it.
Yeah, the

Ben lip-syncing one is the, you know, he'll often have this sort of like totemic power shot. I mean, even like the

look of Robert Blake and Lost Highway or whatever. Bobby Peru's a slightly more comical version of it.

But I feel like his movies almost always have this one villain who is simultaneously like goofy and upsetting looking.

I also like that it just, I know that like drugs are, I don't know, I guess like on just a little bit. I mean, do you like drugs or not? Let's just lay it out at a time.
Drugs are really interesting.

I could name at least five of them. Hell yeah.

I feel like in different views of this, there's number one, goofballs. Number two,

weed, the kind of that makes you cry. Yeah.

Number three, weed gummies. Does that count as a different drug?

Number four, Advil. Uh-huh.
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Ibuprofen, the hard stuff.

Yeah, right. I get the liquor tabs.
That stuff goes really fast. Hit me with some PM and a little bit of my friend's Adderall going, Lactate.

Yes.

But like, the drugs are

not that like they're, they are important, sort of, but they're also just like a thing to make, to make the guys bad, which also feels like dream logic. You don't know what the drug is.

You don't know where it's coming from. You don't know who is really in charge of the drugs.
You just know that they need to be there in order for.

them to have this much power and control over well even like frank's tank is like at some sometimes it feels like this is the one thing that's like taking the pain away from him other times it feels like is this making him go turbo is this him like baning up you know like you're like is he addicted to this is this like the thing that takes the edge off or is this the thing that makes him like level up

yeah and it's at times all three

it's the scariest way to do drugs It is, yeah, with a little dentist mask. It's, I mean, it's all, it's the scariest, but it's the the coolest

most yeah impractical carrying your drugs around like that that's why you you got a grip of boys yeah you get chucky tank boys

you have like a cat a caddy for your your freaky drugs my drug caddy that's actually good i like that um

yeah the the final thing the sort of nightmarish thing in the apartment where there are all these like standing dead men i don't know what like that that that's like to me the most freaky kind of image of the final bit of the movement is just nodding at me.

Yeah. Honestly, I like that at that point.
What would you say about this movie? At that point, I'm just like, well, I don't know. You're just like, well, that's he would.

That's when I see that shot, I'm like, he would.

He would have this shot and it would be confusing. And I don't know.
Maybe I'm like being

too

something by not. I wasn't like super shocked by it because it just seemed like, well, yeah, that would be in a David Lynch movie.
That makes sense. We're getting towards the the end.

He's got to get this kind of stuff in. It's burning daylight.
I have a big news update.

Is Bulldog out? Griffin's news. They lost Bulldog.

They thought I had him. Glenn Powell has acknowledged that, in fact, the story about the cannibal massage lotion may have been an urban legend.

He has revealed it in the sense of, I can't believe I fell for it all this time. Oh, me.

God, can you imagine? The handsome star of anyone but you, Glenn Powell. Props to my little sister's friend.

Has he yet acknowledged that he is the one who demanded that someone show urethra in anyone but you because of market research he conducted? Jamie, have you seen anyone but you?

I haven't yet, but I'm going on a plane next week. So that's the place to watch.
I'm going to see that P-hole on a four-inch screen.

See that there is a direct close-up shot of a man's urethra in that film. That Glenn Powell insisted on? No, I don't know.

I just like to imagine him being like, I got two ideas: Sidney Sweeney and a P-hole. For us,

we find it very important to talk about on this podcast because much has been discussed of the phenomena of that movie. Okay.

And people do not acknowledge that there's a point of film in which a deep supporting character holds his penis straight up to the lens, head on, and shows you his pee-hole. His penis.
His penis.

His penos.

There's also koala business, and I'll leave it at that. Okay.

It is Sentinel Australia. I mean, there has to be a little koala.
I don't know anything about this damn movie. Yeah, I genuinely was.
I'm like, I'm flying, JetBlue. I'm going to go nuts.

I'm going to watch watch anyone jet blue just loads at you

it's like it's like a jonathan demi like silence of the lambs type shot where you're like it's looking at me

I also, I mean, that's like,

I was really late to see Anatomy of a Fall, and I was shocked that I didn't yet know about like the Calypso big pimp. Yeah, like that's some real Jamie Core shit.

Yeah, I was like, I would have seen this movie opening weekend had I known.

But almost kind of like, it's nice that the culture rallied around and was like, we just have to make sure sure no one spoils this for Jamie.

Let her get to this movie on her own time. So surprised,

she hates reading at the movies, but she's going to be really feeling like she got like a return on investment.

I would love for my husband to die during a Calypso remix.

It's just so funny that she was like, I wanted Jolene by Dolly Parton for that movie. That was her choice.
And then my obvious second choice. Then just someone's like, ah, what a second choice.

I don't know, steel drum cover of pimp.

P-I-MP. I said big pimp.

I said Calypso. It's fine.
Is there anything else

we want to talk about with Blue Velvet, a film we have talked about a lot, but perhaps now Ben has me spooked? You know, fans will be like, you didn't talk about this particular freaky thing.

The Robin. Love that.
Sure. The whole vibe summed up here.
This beautiful image that's also like kind of frightening and animatronic and off in this way.

Like, and like maybe someone would watch it and be like, well, that was weird. That thing's obviously not a bird.
And it's like, yeah, bro, that's what he's doing. That's this whole thing.

That's the whole fucking idea. The first time I saw it, I

did

shout, grow up at

Sandy because

grow up, but then, but, you know, he's, he's, he's cooking. He's going somewhere.
He's going somewhere. And I understand why it is beautiful.
I just, God, 17-year-old girls,

they're the best and they're so frustrating because you're like, what are you talking about?

What are you doing? Yeah. Go to school.
Like, relax.

I think this movie is really, I don't know. I didn't fully understand

exactly where this fell in David Lynch's filmography. And it feels like it's just, it's an uplifting story of like, you should have let me do whatever the fuck I wanted the whole time.

I will make something near perfect if you just leave me alone. And then this, there's such a straight line from this to Twin Peaks season one, which is his biggest commercial success.

Right. Let me finish out the dossier, in fact, with that.
Right. You know, he says Dino was making 13 films at the time this was being made.
They were lowest on the totem pulse.

So he really just did not check on them. Apparently on the first day, the dailies looked weird because the lens had broken.
Dino called and was like, why is it so dark?

And they were like, the lens was broken. He was like, okay.
And the phone and they basically just didn't get checked in again.

Dino's like, I have a note. I couldn't see the movie.

Too dark.

Frederick Helms shot the film, obviously. I think it was a crazy movie to shoot because it is largely a night.
Okay. And like, it was just like a pain in the ass too light,

especially on no.

And they filmed it all in Wilmington, South Carolina.

North Carolina, which is where DEG had a studio. Yes.
I think people know this, but just for people who don't, maybe

Lynch wanted Ben to be lip-syncing to crying which is a different and wonderful Roy Urban song which of course he uses in Mulholland Drive uh

and um then they switched uh to um in dreams which makes sense um because it's good oh sure that's an interesting take on it David yeah uh and he was gonna use a table lamp as a microphone and instead Dean Stockholm like picked up this work light that was hanging on the wall and like flipped it around like a microphone and they were like, oh, that rocks.

And you provided your own lighting. You saved us some time and setup.
Rossellini, you know, learned to sing Blue Velvet. I mean, look, there's a lot of stuff in here.

The score, Battlementi,

amazing score. They recorded it in Prague.
It's kind of a Lynchian score, if you ask me. Oh, I think, is it,

what are the top three there? It's Lynchian

that people use wrong all the time. Kafka-esque.
Yeah. Gaslighting.

Right? You can get a direct line from Isabella Rossellini to gaslight. David, what do you mean? Everyone uses that word correctly.

What do you mean? You sound crazy right now. David, you sound insane.
You're the person who's been using it wrong. Yeah.
David, everyone but you has been using it correctly this entire time.

Here's your tweet of you using it wrong. I didn't write that tweet.
Yeah, you did. It's your account.

Or anyone who like any bad comedian who just like runs out of ideas and takes their clothes off on stage, they're like kind of doing a Kaufman-esque kind of thing.

You know, you're just like, oh, sure. Blue Velvet, controversial from his first preview screening.
It was just shown to some Randos in the Valley. The reaction was negative.

People thought it was disgusting and sick.

Interesting.

But De Laurentis believed in the film. He put it at the World Film Festival in Montreal and then at TIFF.

Whatever TIFF was called, like the Festival of Festivals back then or whatever.

And then it was released commercially mid-September, which is kind of an odd spot to put it, but I don't know where you put this movie exactly.

And it made about $8 million. So it sort of like doubled its budget, kind of and got an Oscar nomination for best director only.

But one of those movies that had sort of an outsized cultural impact to how widely it was actually seen at first. Exactly.
It just had a long run.

Apparently Lynch met Elizabeth Taylor at the Oscars and she said, I love blue velvet and made out with him.

According to David Lynch, I'm not joking.

Kissed him at least. Well, that's a big difference, David.
Well, but she says for several minutes. With tongue? Did he specify with tongue?

God, the world's most beautiful women do love just like a weird guy. Mac on Lynch.
It's, yeah, it's true. He says he's kissed her several times.
Okay, fair enough. Okay.

Time has obviously been very kind to the film. It's very well regarded today.

And now everyone thinks it's cool and nobody thinks it's weird. Right?

Joking. I don't know.
I think people still think it's weird. I don't know.

There's like so many cases. Like I, there's five trillion essays about it.
I read one.

It's a good start. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
But it seems like people have found different ends to appreciate this. I see a lot of like community

one of those movies that also makes, has only made more sense retroactively as he has built the rest of his canon of work around it. Totally, yeah.
Yeah.

Box office game? Box office game for Blue Velvet.

We're going to do, it's mid-September 1986, Griffin. What's number one at the box office? It's pretty much the biggest hit of the year.
It's pretty much the biggest hit of the year.

I'll look up the year. Even I know what it is.
You know what it is? It's a topic. I think it's top.
Okay. It is, I think.
Yeah, that was the number one of the year.

Only 2 million more than Croc Dundee, though. Okay.
They were very close. Paramount.
Paramount. Two huge mountains at the top of the year.

Number two at the box office is one of those movies that it's kind of like the goonies for me, where I've never really gotten it.

And it was kind of like a cult classic on release that a lot of young people liked of, you know, Jen Xer is more like, you know, and then when it was like presented to me as a teenager, it's like, this is a cult classic.

San Emma's Fire. No, that movie just stinks.
It's just a bad movie. Adventures in Babysitting.

I've never seen Adventures in Babysitting. I'm willing to believe that movie is a fun time.
That movie is a lot of fun. Yes.

Where's the movie on the spectrum we're creating right now? Is it more teen? Is it more kid?

It's about, about it's a coming-of-age film i guess they're supposed to be kind of they're like about 12 years old anyway

it's a director who is on an insane run before not being on an insane run jamie no is it stand by me stand by me

um i've never seen rob reiners stand by me will wheaton river phoenix i think a very good film but not one that was ever like transformative for me in that i saw it right i think probably with a fair amount of hype at that and i was kind of like oh this is okay you know i mix it up with the outsiders which i also haven't seen Outside is very good.

Have you ever seen Rumblefish? No, Rumblefish, you would love James.

Yeah,

come on. Rumblefish is like German expressionist greaser boy movie.
Oh, that's great. Yeah, yeah.
Rumblefish looks very cool. It's true.

Just like fucking huge black and white shadows of knife fights in alleys.

Was just addicted to not making more normal movies, even when he's like, I'll do this. When he was actually addicted to losing money.
Yes, right. Yeah.

Number three at the box office is a sequel to a big hit.

It's a franchise you often trip up on in the box office game. It's Police Academy? Nope.
Fuck.

But it's another one like that. You just always kind of forget about the Dirty Harry.
No.

I feel like Dirty Harry is the one I always forget about. It's more kid focused.
It's more kid focused.

In 1986. It's a part two.
The Karate Kid? Karate Kid Part two. There we go.

Don't you always, you always kind of, you're always like, it's like the last franchise you think of in in the 80s, I feel like.

I think we've had a couple karate kids where you can't do it. You psyched me out.
Sorry. No, it's fine.
Jamie did a good job. Number four at the box up is one of the great films of 1986.

It's a horror film. It's a horror film of 1986.
Full of Lynchian, if you ask me. Really? No, but it's like what.

I mean, sort of. It's a director whose name is also put with an Ian

to just describe, you know,

his kind of shit. Like, his kind.
Is it Cronenberg? Is it the fly? Yeah. One of my favorites.
Yeah.

Great movie for freaks. Yeah.

Number five is a movie I've never seen. And a movie that has a very similar birthing process to Lynch's Elephant Man.
It's Stuart Kornfeld bringing this guy in

to Mel Brooks and being like, we can match him with this material.

And then we'll maybe find a vehicle that's slightly more commercial, but fits into all of their sensibilities and obsessions. Number five, I feel like we've talked about this before, a bit of a flop.

It's a young comic star and an old comic star. The old comic star is his final film role.
Oh, it's nothing in common? Yes. With Tom Hanks and Jackie Gleason.
Everybody's favorite pair.

Do you know this movie? We've told this story before, but we were on our trivia team, our old trivia team of videology, bar in Williamsburg.

And this movie came up and I was like, oh my God, I can see the poster.

And it's fucking Jackie Gleason with the cigars and Tom Hanks.

And for the two of them, and what's the title? He's old. He's young.
Come on.

That's pretty much it.

I knew this was the movie and I couldn't remember the title. And I was

not generic. It's not nothing but trouble.
It's not like, it's nothing but, nothing but. And I was looking and I couldn't pull the fucking title.

And then I looked over at our friend Common, who used to play in our team. Right.
Whose name was K-A-M-E-N. Yes.
And I was like, it's nothing in common. Yep.

And his name was what made me get the title. And of course, we all remember that victory that week when we won trivia and it has gone down in history.
The other rest of the top 10, we've got

Aliens. Good movie.
Pretty fucking good movie. Ruthless People, part of the Debuto Apex Romania.
And the Zaz. Yep.
Yeah. Sucker Abraham Zuckerberg.
A little movie about someone going back to school.

Which one? Rodney. Oh, Back to School, the movie.

Yeah, yeah.

A film I don't know, The Men's Club. Oh, boy.
No idea what that is. Couldn't have that today.

It looks like it's... Okay.

Interesting. It's a Peter Medack movie

starring

Harvey Keitel and Richard Jordan, but then, and Roy Schneider's in this, but then this is the tight. This is the poster? The poster is just Jennifer Jason Lee.

Jennifer Jason Lee looking honestly like a stone-cold babe, but I don't really. Credit it in the role of Teensy.
Okay. I don't know much about this movie.
Do you know anything here?

I never heard of this. Men's

vaguely astonished by this thing. Yeah.

Yeah, it's based on a novel, a band of friends going to drunken all-night spree, spending a night in a high-class brothel.

It is famed for Keitel's assertive denial of masturbation. What the? Well, now I have to watch it to find out what the hell that means.

Number 10 in the box office is Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Okay.
Yeah. Yeah.
A movie I don't like. You're one of those.
Apart from Jennifer Jennifer Gray. Show me her.
Show me her. I'm incredible in it.

That's what I'm saying. Yeah.
How do you feel about Ferris? I don't care about him. I don't care.

I think everyone at school is crazy about him. The American.
The weeds, the burnouts, the weirdos. I don't care about him either.
Okay. I don't care about him.
He's a little bit more.

It's a cool little twerp. Yeah.
Ferris kind of, but yeah, it is. I mean, I get it.
It's kind of the point. It's kind of the point.
Why am I hanging out with this dude?

I need to pee, so we should end the podcast. And we've also, we've done a good chunk of time.
Yeah, we did great. We did good.
We did good. I think we did good.
Yeah.

The bad sign. And the fucking podcast.
Let's fucking do it, man. Man's wearing a blanket.

We got too cold. Our air conditioner seems to only have two settings on or off.
It's like, do you want this place to be sweaty as hell? Or icy

spots. Fucking subway car in August cold.
Like,

anyway, yes. Griffin.
Jamie. Jamie.
David. Griffin.
Jamie.

This is the first one. Jamie's listening.
Thank you, David.

Thank you for being here, Jamie.

Thank you for being here, guys. Jamie, it was really awesome, dude, that you were in person with us, obviously.
It was great. It's always the best.
Hot dog season. It's hot dog seasoned.

It was nice to be with friends when I got the news.

I'm sure that

Joey Chestnut

sold out to the woke mob. And

I have to leave and write a column about it right away. It felt meaningful to get to witness you processing that in real time.
Yeah, yeah. It's really challenging.

People should listen to 16th Minute of Fame. Hey, please do.
I love it so much. It's so good.
Thank you. And I have all of your other work, of course.
Yes.

But this is the new show. James is the new guy.
Yeah, you are such an incredible interview.

And it is, I was getting at this earlier, but the thing that makes it unique beyond just the premise, the thing that people can't rip off is the way that you interact with with your subjects from a place of real interest and compassion and humanity.

And you're asking questions that no, no hack could just do cynically. Thanks.
I think it's the ethos of the show is actually who are these people once we leave them behind.

And the best version of that show can only be done by someone who is actually interested in people in a way you are. Thank you so much.
It's really great. I recommend it highly.

I just think you're funny.

I was trying to think of like the

dumb version of the compliment after Griff being so eloquent. It's just a really great show.

That's so kind.

And

eat some hot dogs. Eat some hot dogs.
It's the season. And eat some vegan hot dogs.
Eat some vegan hot dogs. The god of hot dogs has spoken.
Yeah. Meeters over.

Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe.
Thank you to Marie Barty for helping to produce the show. Thank you to A.J.
McKeon for our editing. A.J.

McKeon is also our production coordinator. Thank you to J.J.
Birch for our research. Lane Montgomery and the Great American Novel for our theme song.
Joe Bow and Pat Reynolds for our artwork.

You can go to blankcheckpod.com for links to some real nerdy shit, including our Patreon, Blank Check Special Features, where we are doing tabletop games.

Yeah, sure. That infamous Hollywood franchise that we've cobbled together.
We're doing movies on tabletop games, of course, because this episode's coming out. On the 20th.

And so the next movie, of course, is Ouija. Ouija

Origin of Evil.

The good one.

Think of how many movies I said I haven't seen during this, and I have seen them. I have seen them.
Yeah, yeah. I've seen both.
One, the Great American Folks. I have seen them both.
Yeah.

First one is absolute garbage, but the second one rocks. Yeah.

Tune in next week for.

Is it the wait a second, actually? Because I'm wondering

what I'm looking at right here. Okay, great.
Because, you know, there's new movies as well. I forget.
Look, there's a fucked up guy who's tiptoeing around the perimeter of our schedule.

He's not going to quite be ready for next week's episode drop, but the following week, a little folly-deh. You think it's do a Joker episode, Jamie? No.
Yes, I know. Yes, yes, yes.

That is so cruel and unusual. And off in the distance, you might hear a chuckle.
And you go, what joke did he just hear?

Wasn't a joke. Joke said.

He heard the joke of crime and laughed. He heard that crime was happening.
And that's his laugh in the distance.

Except this laugh is turning into a song maybe we don't do it do it or maybe he just does it by himself we lock him in a room we're fucking doing it i mean i have to be there yeah all right but you could be like the you could be like the therapist you could be like so you're telling me you watch joker folly out do it griffin's like and if i did

you're not tweaking the right questions

everyone in america saw this movie why aren't we talking about it

bye-bye bye-bye yeah

do me as always or whatever. And as always,

fucking Ricky T is coming in two weeks.

There's going to be a lot of yelling, so I'm trying to make sure there's no

projectile. There's going to be a lot of yelling.
Yeah, I move this microphone back a little, ready.