Intolerable Cruelty with Katey Rich

Blank Jack with Griffin and David.

Blank Jack with Griffin and David.

Don't know what to say or to expect.

All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Jack.

Your husband had told me you were the most beautiful podcast he'd ever met.

I didn't expect the most beautiful podcast I'd ever met.

It's a great line.

It is.

I don't have a good clooney.

Few do.

He's one of the least impersonated movie stars of that size, I would say.

He's got a thing.

Someone could figure it out.

People do it, and you're like, this is, let's get right into the deep end here.

I believe you kind of can't be a great movie star without being someone that someone can impersonate.

You need to be distinctive

enough

that there is an ability to impersonate you in a specific way.

Someone could definitely do Clooney.

I've seen people do it.

Yeah.

But very few.

You need to have like a hook that someone can hang on to.

Fascinate me, but I can't, I can't do you know how to do the head tilt.

It's a quality of voice.

It's very grovelly in this.

Yeah.

Yeah, the

down.

But then in this, he's doing the Cohen's.

The Cohen's get him working his neck unlike anyone else.

And the teeth, obviously.

I mean, that's a whole separate thing.

Yeah.

I think this is.

Yeah.

I mean, I guess.

What's your favorite Clooney Cohen's performance?

Oh.

He's done four.

Yeah.

Okay.

O Brother.

This one, Burn After Reading.

I skipped one.

Tail Caesar.

Oh, thank you.

Yeah.

His Idiot Trilogy, which is now four films.

My default answer is Burn After Reading, which I think he's unreal good in.

When I'm watching this, I go, how could it be anything but this?

He's unbelievable in this.

And this is so much on his shoulders.

Yes.

Even more than O Brother, where it's like

amazing in O'Brother, but right now.

Well, O Brother has so much going on.

Like, I didn't re-watch that one before this but i did re-watch burn after reading and burn after reading is like it's an ensemble way more than this is like this is just like really a two-hander but really kind of a one-hander

show yeah he's yeah he's the best he's unbelievable he's a nominee for me this year yeah yeah it's an amazing performance and this is

after ocean's 11 uh two years two years and before ocean's 12 which catherine zeta jones is of course in this is the thing we've talked about in the past on this podcast that i found really interesting i remember very distinctly catherine zeta jones

best supporting actress for Chicago in 2002.

I do remember that.

Her three immediate follow-up films are

Intolerable Cruelty, directed by the Cohen Brothers, Ocean's 12, directed by Steven Soderberg, and The Terminal, directed by Steven Spielberg.

And upon the release of Ocean's 12, which I think is the third.

That's the last, I think.

Yeah.

She fires all of her reps.

I did not know that.

It's not just that.

Her career is over.

Basically, yeah.

No, no, no, not basically.

You can draw a line.

Well, she's married to Michael Douglas at what point?

That doesn't matter.

That's already happened.

Let's say in 99.

The follow-up to the run he just said, the immediate follow-up is Legend of Zorro, no reservations, death-defying X,

then two years later, the rebound.

Which sat on a shelf.

It's over.

Was there not the sense, though, that she's like, I'm married to Michael Douglas and I got kids.

I'm going to just peace.

There was part of that.

I think everyone was like,

she stinks it up in all three of those movies.

Sorry.

That was sort of, I think, the perception at the time.

It was a little bit what happened to Helen Hunt post-Oscar.

It was a take-her Oscar away run.

Right.

But it's also that she made movies with exclusively incredible filmmakers.

Movies that are basically, well, the terminal's not good, but are basically all pretty good.

But among the least regarded of all of their movies.

Yes.

I mean, obviously, we all love Oceans 12 now.

Oceans 12 has now been reclaimed.

At the time, it was not well reclaimed.

We're trying to start the drumbeat here.

I think the drumbeat was started.

Oh, oh, yeah.

Oh, I see.

Yes.

Which has not happened, but may start today.

And then Terminal, I feel like, is the furthest off.

Although some will defend it.

People stick off Frit.

I don't, I do think she's not one of the better parts of it, though.

Like, you know.

No, but that's a perfect example of that part sucks.

It is basically designed to make the audience hate whoever's occupying that role.

Get away from me.

I'm sick.

Do we think the Catherine Zeta Jones revival is going to happen after Naked Gun has that great joke about her, which is fresh as we are having this conversation?

It's remind me of a joke.

In my day, the only things that were electric were eels and Catherine Zeta Jones's Chicago.

It's just a great joke.

It's so good.

Right.

He's talking about the electric guitar.

The electric car.

Sorry.

But I feel like he says three things.

It might be guitar.

It might be guitars eels.

And then the third thing is so wordy.

Part of the majesty of it

is that they give Liam Neeson three sentences to say quickly.

And it goes, time and Catherine Xena Jones' electrifying performance in 2002 film Chicago.

Like, that's what they do that joke so many times, and it's always, always hits.

Just Liam Neeson saying a long thing.

Well, the Buffy Tebow joke that comes right out of the field.

Buffy Teeboo getting the black-eyed teeth about something

from early 2000s pop culture that is still so

Janet Jackson at the Super Bowl.

Right.

You're like, why is this guy so hung up on the pop culture from when he was 50?

Like, it's part of what is so good.

Because he's ageless.

But I don't.

Look, I think that the Catherine Zita Jones comeback in quotes happened in that she is back and is on Netflix's hit show Wednesday and

did a national treasure show she's around

there is no chance of her there's the post-Oscar run there's the run you just said that it's like big drop off then she disappears for a couple years then there's like the 2013 sort of attempted comeback she's in six movies in two years in 2012

right it's like playing for keeps rock of ages side effects uh uh what's the other one i was about to say i don't know i'm looking at oh broken City.

What the hell is that?

I'm looking at the game.

It's a political thriller.

No, just one Hughes.

It's a Hughes, Wahlberg, and Alan Hughes.

And then there are two more.

Two more.

One,

you might remember just as

anonymous title, much like playing for Keeps Lay the Favorite.

Oh, that's a Freer's.

Her character's name is Tulip.

Uh-huh.

That's a movie that's

10 giant movie stars in it and doesn't exist.

Bruce Willis is in it.

Vince Vaughan's in it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Giant.

I mean, it's a lot of movie stars who are at the tail end or whatever.

And then Red 2 is the final.

Now, the thing about what we're talking about here is that this is the third of the three movies usually, you know, the Intolerable Cruelty Terminal, Ocean 12, that we have covered.

We have covered that.

Have really put a magnifying glass on Catherine Zeta Jones's post-Oscar bust.

Yes.

You know, like, we haven't ever talked about great movies that she's been in, such as The Mask of Zorrow,

High Fidelity, Traffic,

Chicago, America's Sweetheart.

She just skipped right over that one.

Not on the lineup.

She stinks in that movie.

A movie I rewatched recently, kind of like.

I would be interested to rewatch it.

I do not remember her working in it.

Almost worked.

The only good joke in that movie is

Hanka Zeri's Hank Hunkit the entire time.

The whole supported cast of that movie is really.

I remember walking as air, you know, right.

Touchy?

Touchy.

You get a good touch of the touch in in that.

Yep.

But like, you know, all the all the movies that made Catherine Zena Jones the star that she was.

Where it's this, and we've talked about this, but this meteoric rise where it's basically like 1997, who the fuck is this?

Yeah.

2002, an Oscar that almost feels like an overdue anointment.

Oh, at that point, yes.

Yes.

Of just like, well, she's undeniably one of our greatest movie stars.

And then just a media drop off here.

That run of 2013, we just called out.

She has not been in a movie since then.

She she has done five different tv series

but she has not been in a feature film you're forgetting of course dad's army the british i'm sorry um you know homage sort of uh revival that was 2017 2016 that is her actual last film correct

since then she's done disney plus national treasure series i will say when she has a film coming up What is it?

She's in Kathy Yan's Birds of Prey follow-up, which is called The Gallerist.

That's right.

And has a stacked cast.

Natalie Portman, Jen Ortega, Sterling K.

Brown, Charlie XCX.

Interesting things about this.

I've heard unreleasable, but, or, or I've heard, I guess, like, why hasn't it been released?

Yes.

You should read the plot description because

it grabs you.

A gallerist conspires.

to sell a deceased man at Miami's Art Basel.

That sounds kind of fun.

I'm into it.

In it, Bernie's meets the art world.

Sounds good to me.

She does feel like a world movie, art world satire.

That is tricky.

Remember Velvet Buzzong?

I never saw Velvet Buzzaw.

You know, and if someone tries it every couple of years, it's like, it's tough to, you know, they're all so silly to begin with.

It's tough to satirize.

I'm a fan of Kathy Ann.

Me too.

I'm excited for this.

I want to see it.

It does feel like she is someone who is just like...

A little cursed.

Well, but also.

Kathy Ann or Catherine Zeta Jones or both.

Catherine Zeta Jones, but also I'm just like, it feels like it's right there for the taking.

Yes.

It feels like you don't even have to go full substance.

Yeah.

The right movie, the right supporting part for Catherine Zeta Jones, you look like a genius.

Yep.

And I thought she was incredibly good in side effects.

I remember seeing that in theaters and going, like, this is it.

And then that movie just makes no impact whatsoever.

That's a weird Soderberg like wilderness.

I really like that movie.

Yeah.

I liked it too.

I don't like her.

Interesting.

This is a real David's Being Mean to Catherine and Zeta Jones episode so far, which is weird because I think she works in Intolerance.

I think she's

its weakest element a little bit.

I would argue that's Jeffrey Rush, but we can get there.

Jeffrey Rush.

He's in the two scenes.

I like this take.

I just like coming in with this part of the cake.

I didn't realize it was like.

I remember even at the time.

The whole thing.

Look, I'm getting worked up about Catherine Zia Jones.

Look, this is a blank check with Griffin and David.

I'm Griffin.

It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want.

And sometimes those checks clear, and sometimes they bounce.

Baby,

Kirshner was in Kentucky.

Forget Kirshner.

Forget Kirshner.

Forget Kirshner.

Are you crazy?

You've forgotten Kirshner.

The best line.

Kirshner was in Kentucky.

Richard Jenkins shows up in this movie and you're just like, we are off to the race.

Richard Jenkins drops 80 atomic bomb, like just face, like, just eyebrow twitches.

And then Paul Adelstein hits like 43.

Like just crazy number.

Jenkins, I think, has two, three three scenes and i'm just like i want to know everything it feels like he's in the entire movie

just be well placed i think it's the two meetings in the courtroom yeah he won't eat that croissant he won't pastry and pastry excuse me uh this is the mazer is on the films of joel and ethan cohen yeah

together and separately

it is called pod country for old cast Today we're starting the drumbeat of the Intolerable Cruelty Reclamation, a movie I have found in my anecdotal conversations with people as we've been doing this series,

even the most ardent Cohen supporters I know in my life,

by and large, are like, Yeah, I saw that when it came out in theaters, it's bad, right?

And have never re-watched it.

More than late killers, I always thought.

Okay, all right.

More killers.

I did a little different.

Well, he tried, but I'm saying like a little different.

I agree with Griffin that I know there are intolerable cruelty fans out there because I'm one of them,

but we did kind of cast nets being like, so come on, who's the big defender out there ready to come on blank check famous podcast?

Time 100.

Yes.

Decade of dreams.

Yes.

Seth Rogan's on the show.

You didn't say that.

I said all of this.

You said all of this.

You didn't dangle Seth Roger.

I was walking on the top of 30 Rock, just blaring this from the top of my lungs.

You had an old-timey director megaphone.

I couldn't really find anyone who was like, yes, intolerable cruel.

I want to defend.

We've been such big defenders for a while that we're like, there have to be others.

And I just keep finding people who are like, Sawn Theatre's opening weekend, disappointed.

Didn't like have never considered re-watching.

Or I've heard from others like, oh, I mean, it's okay.

You know, a little bit of that.

Not so much what I expect and what I've always thought since I saw it in theaters,

which is this rocks.

Love it.

Now, David, in order to complete this task, we had to look to the aforementioned Time 100 Greatest Podcast of All Time list.

We had to shunt her from two other episodes she was booked on because we kept booking famous podcasts.

I think it was considered for three, actually.

There were definitely three titles in the mix at some point, and I would have done any of them.

We will be clear.

You are overdue.

We were like, we're getting Katie on somewhere.

And you were like, I'm going to be to be in our defense, you were also kind of like, I'm coming to New York somewhere in like a free window.

Yes, I'd make it difficult.

I was supposed to have come on for a whole previous series, and then I had to go to Los Angeles instead, which is way less fun.

Are you supposed to come on?

Always?

Yeah, always.

You guys replace me with Richard Lawson, which I accept.

Listen, from one of the hundred greatest podcasts of all time, and other podcasts.

Fighting the Lord Room, but also Prestige Junkie.

Prestige Junkie and all the ankler.

True.

Katie Rich, who I'm overdue, but I'm going to anoint you with a title now.

What do I got?

We always say that you were kind of the first blank chick.

You kind of were.

Emily Ishida was.

This is the thing.

But she was on this weird sort of vishyme, jerky.

Did she do like the early Shyamalans before the show?

She just talked about it.

She did a revisiting of Force Awakens.

Force Awakens, yeah.

So, like, it was basically, but it was the early run of me asking my friends, and you had asked

the Star Wars show.

You, I feel like, was asked more comedian friends because it's like we were more of a comedy.

Also, most of our trivia team.

Like, I wasn't going to ask film critics that I admired and respected.

We call Emily the mother blanket.

Anyway, but you know, this is a title she has earned.

I want to be clear.

She comes up with the term in the episode.

In that episode, we're like, should we rename our show?

Right, right, right, right.

You were the first guest on the show.

It was officially blank checked.

Yes, I were on the sixth tenth episode, to be clear.

Yes, and it was kind of the first episode the box office game got played.

It is?

Was it really?

Because I kind of favorite box office weekend.

I did it as a whim.

I was like, oh, let's try to guess this.

I called out how much I love that weekend.

Yeah.

It became the game.

So

I want to anoint you here in this decade of dreams.

The auntie of Blankies.

Oh, God.

What an honor.

I thought you were

the auntie of Blankie.

That's true.

I'll be sitting on a porch, just like this porch that it is right here in the studio.

Sipping on a sweet tea.

Yeah, or half sweet, or half lemonade, Arnold Palmer.

You know,

I could have brought some piminos for

here.

Y'all could come on.

You have been talking for years pre-pandemic about doing a road trip and coming down.

David, I realize you have a large cargo now.

But I love, I love North Carolina.

We have a lot of toys in our house.

Bring your children.

Including some that I've sent.

I know.

That's true.

My kids aren't like, oh, yeah, all I need are some toys.

Anyway, Karen.

I do think Griffin was spiritually with us because we went to Pandora.

We went to Animal Kingdom and saw the floating islands of Pandora in Florida.

And I do think the banshees that you you sent to our house were like with us along on the journey.

And like, I talked to you about going through the little boat ride that people think is boring, but I thought was beautiful.

Anyway, you have helped encourage it.

Come down and see Fire Dash with us.

We're going to be there opening night, I'm sure.

I like that idea.

Charlie went to the summer camp, Charlie, past and future guest, now nine years old, which I just feel like he's on the Titanic episode now.

He's a sub six-month-old baby.

As a baby, and now is nine years old.

For youngest guys.

I hope he keeps it.

But he went to summer camp and the week that the Fire and Ash trailer came out.

And I picked him up.

And while we were in the car, before we'd gotten more than two miles away, I was like, you got to watch this.

You got to see the Fire and Ash trailer.

And he's so hyped.

We're ready.

We'll be there.

Few things in this horrible, broken world make me happier than how much Charlie loves Avatar III.

He rocks about Fire and Ash, too.

What?

Is there a Fire and Ash?

With Wayne of Water, just years of...

Yeah, but is he actually going to make it?

And yeah, and it kept getting delayed and all this.

And then Avatar 3, he was like, yeah, it's going to come out two years after.

Yes.

And like, like clockwork, they were like, here's your trailer.

This movie is is ready like this movie's coming i think there's no fire around doesn't get enough credit everyone's talking fire

fire

and ash

i just want to say about fire and ash i agree with you where you're like okay we're getting into like a rhythm here now these are going to come out and then you look at the calendar and you're like four is five years away is he gonna make them do you think he's gonna do it i don't think so you don't think he's gonna make the other ones The way he's talking about, oh, now I really want to like make you live inside of a nuclear explosion for this Hiroshima movie I want to make.

He keeps being like, it's going to be an IMAX.

Maybe I'll make an even bigger IMAX that's even more horrible to witness or whatever.

It will make you hurt.

Basically, every James Cameron quote now is just him singing the lyrics of her.

I don't think I want to punish the audience.

You know, George R.

Martin is someone who clearly hit a wall in his big creative process for his book.

And he just, it's not like he got lazy.

He just started doing other stuff, being like, well, I hope I figure that out one day.

Right.

And maybe he will, maybe he won't.

James Cameron, he may have, he's not lazy.

No, but I you get the sense from him a little bit of like, I just want to take a break and then I'm going to get back to them where you're like, but the man's like 75 years old and uh

okay, he's not and he's and he's a fit man.

Oh, she looks great.

I'm not worried about he could die in a submarine accident at any moment.

That's true.

Although he would tell you, like, no fucking way am I dying at a submarine.

Like, I follow all the

other guys who die in the submarines at staying alive in a submarine.

He's very good at it.

This is true.

Undefeated at this point.

Maybe he'll hand it off to somebody.

I don't know.

He's intimated he could.

That had always been my guess.

Yeah.

And now he's saying, I don't want to hand them off.

Right.

Here's my new theory.

He's always done this thing where after an avatar, he's like, maybe I want to make something else.

And then Disney announces a new record-breaking deal for him to fast track the next avatar.

And they've built him like a space station this time or whatever.

You know, like they've always built him some big facility.

Cleopatra.

Right.

After Way of Water, he was like, I'm going to make this Hiroshima movie right away.

And then they were like, never mind, Fire and Ash coming out two years on the clock.

Right.

I also think he has most of the footage in the can.

For four and five?

You think so?

Yes.

Most of them?

I thought two and three were together and then four and five were guys.

He's been doing more since then.

I see.

Well, he's got like the studio in New Zealand.

He can just throw Kate Winslet into the tank, whatever he wants.

I want.

I want.

We want.

I just wonder if he's sort of now like,

I've captured most of it.

Can I be doing post-on avatars while making new movies?

I see.

Which feels like a tall task, but if anyone has the hubris to believe they could pull it off to do the sort of Schindler drastic.

I was just going to say, it's like Spielberg.

That's my new theory on what he's all for it.

And I'm all for the sort of like these big directors hit a certain age, the Ridley Scott Scott syndrome, and they're like, I want to work more.

Like, I score says he's doing the same thing.

Let's not go crazy.

I mean, Marty works.

He's no Ridley Scott, but he's no Ridley Scott.

He's slowing down now.

Marty is slowing down.

He has been cranking.

I think the other thing with Marty is it's like he can only work at a high budget and all this stuff because he needs to work pretty slow and have a lot of infrastructure around him.

Whereas Ridley Scott's like, send in my team, you know, and we'll make a fucking, you know,

I can build a pyramid for you in an hour or whatever it is he does.

Yeah.

Catherine Zeta Jones.

Zeta, Zeta?

That's an SNL 25 drill.

Say what?

Don't worry, Nick the Lounge singer.

Welsh accent sings to Catherine Zeta Jones in the audience.

How would she go?

You know, the Welsh accent is very seasoned.

Catherine Zeta, Zeta, Zeta, is it Zita or Zeta?

And I always forget how she corrects him.

I always think it's Zeta.

Catherine Zeta Jones, the great Catherine Zeta Jones, in a way, the great Catherine Zeta Jones.

Yes.

I was raised on Catherine Zeta Jones, right?

I saw Mascazaro when I was 12.

Beyond that, bewitched by this woman.

We have said this, the two trailers.

She had two trailer moments that felt like they exploded the universe.

The entrapment trailer?

Entrapment.

Entrapment, her going through the lasers.

Yep.

And the end of the Zoro trailer,

her clothes fall off in a Z.

And it felt like those two things, it was like Bill Clinton got like state of the union.

We all agree this is the sexiest woman on the planet.

And it just so like in a way that was codified for like all children, you were like, I get it.

You're telling me

this is like the height of like glamour and charisma.

And then there was this narrative that like Michael Douglas was like, I must meet that woman.

Bring her to me.

That's a decent Michael Douglas, actually.

Thank you.

This is CNN.

And then it was right.

This constant comedy of like, she has to change his diapers.

Yep.

She's married to the oldest man in the world.

Right.

Meanwhile, he's like, I'm going to play Ant-Man 20 years from now or whatever the fuck.

Then she's in traffic, and people are like, is she actually a good actress?

Traffic was the Oscar.

Right.

Was the, don't bullshit me.

But yeah, she's pretty good.

And then within a couple of years, she's won an Oscar.

Yep.

And I, okay.

I have this very strong memory of my industry dad having the variety that says she's fired all of her reps.

And he goes, like, I know these movies haven't worked.

The

Terminal Oceans 12 run in a row.

But he was like, if you got Academy Award winner Catherine Zeta Jones and the next three projects you give her are Cohen's Spielberg Hanks, you're doing your job.

Spielberg Hanks and Oceans.

You're doing your job.

You kind of can't get three better projects for her.

I would agree with that.

And yet they didn't, none of them really worked out.

And the stink was on her.

The stink was on her.

Even though none of them are her fault, the reason that they did not work.

Although I think I would agree.

I was thinking about her performance in this and whether she's the weak link and like who I would replace her with.

Well, so that was my question.

Well, no, so here's what I want to bring up right now.

So 2003, David Sims, imagine him, 17 years old, a cinephile.

Foggy London Town.

Yes.

Living in foggy London Town, reading his Empire magazines.

By this point, reading his sight and sounds, watching his old movies.

Cool guy.

Oh, so cool.

Active social life.

Yeah.

I had a very active social life.

I am an extrovert of biting your bottom lip, raising the roof.

Doing those things.

Dressing, we're going to say just okay.

Probably some work to be done.

Which is this movie you see the fashion of the time and realize none of us really stood a chance.

That's an interesting point.

So, but there's two movies that come out this year that are related to each other in that they are both trying to recapture the sort of throwback spirit of an old rom-com.

Intolerable cruelty, I would say, is more of a screwball comedy.

And then Down with Love,

which is more of a sort of 50s, Doris Day, Rock Hudson kind of thing.

But like, they both have this same energy of like, arch.

We are going super arch.

We've got movie stars.

We've got costumes.

We've got bright colors.

And audiences are like, no, thank you.

Like, absolutely not.

This is not the tone we prefer.

Down with Love has completely been reclaimed, I would say, at this point.

Down with Love was essentially an instant cult classic.

It came out bombed.

Critics were like, blah, but audiences were like, we hate it.

And the Oscar Watch forums were like, masterpiece.

And it has a period piece going for it, right?

Like the Donald County beat present day.

It does the weird kind of not a period piece, but something of a period like tone.

I think it is why everyone bumped on this when it came out.

Yes.

Is for filmmakers who are so good at pastiche,

this is one of their most pastiche movies, and yet it is committed to being dressed like a modern film.

And featuring modern things like video cameras and and fucking you know just like the sort of cable shows the type of gold digger that it's about is a modern kind of you know all that shit i think that broke brains in both directions and you even look at the trailer for this movie which can't decide

a billion times a billion times you cannot decide uh you fascinate me was you fascinate me was one of those uh we're duly appointed federal marshals

100 right um

the trailer can't decide if they're trying to sell cohen's weirdness or they're trying to sell two sexy movie stars doing rom comedy.

It's more trying to sell, this is, we've got two hot people, they're going to fall in love and it's a comedy set in the world of the divorce lawyer.

Okay, fine.

But yeah, you know, like, yes, lest we forget.

To Klaus the Baron Heinz function.

Exactly.

There's going to be some goofy, Cohen's-y stuff.

Yeah.

And that's me again in the audience, you know, with a little foam finger being like, I'm ready.

I love Preston Surgeons.

In the context of the movie, those things do go hand in hand, but selling them both together is really hard.

I think this movie is incredibly cohesive and like of a piece.

Agree.

But I remember I did not see this at the time.

I said erroneously that from the moment I became Cohen pilled when I saw a brother, I haven't missed one of their films in theaters, but I didn't see this in theaters because everyone around me told me it was bad.

It didn't get very good reviews and it vanished quickly.

Directions where I was like, people who went to see it as a comedy were like, that thing sucks.

It's not funny.

And I was like, well, I don't trust them.

I need to talk to Cohen's people and cohen's people in my life were like it's bad it doesn't feel like them it feels anonymous which is insane to me now it's insane now it's insane yeah but i do think there was that bumping of like people didn't know how to process this yeah i think if this movie had been set in an arch 40s like sort of thing

it would if it had been the hugs out hug look the hudsucker proxy which i did rewatch coming into this and was thinking a lot about that archness and how the setting of it yes tells you what it's going to to be way more than intolerable cruelty does would have

its giant pop

harder upon release yeah but i think it would have found its champions faster yes versus i feel like cohen's people who are like loath to revisit this because they're like i just remember that being a complete nothing yeah i think you watch it now i watched it for the first time on a plane years later and i was like it's the one i haven't seen i guess i should watch it and i got to the fucking kirshner was in kentucky scene and i immediately was like, this is fucking Preston Surgis.

This is the most durgis of any of their films.

100%.

How did people not get this?

Down to like its weird, like seven-act structure.

It's like insane, like scenes, like set pieces built around dialogue and like seven internal games within a five-person conversation.

Objection, Your Honor.

Poetry recitation.

Right.

I'm just going to keep giving you lines.

We would say fern coup marteaux de se fesse.

You would say make hammer on his fanny.

The way they say nail his ass in five different ways across the U.S.

David, what?

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Booking.

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Who is one other person in the room?

This is so rude.

I sleep easy.

I'm definitely not someone who insists on 800 thread count sheets.

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Well, I think of one person in particular, although it's really both of you.

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You do.

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As long as I got a good bathroom mirror for selfies, I'm happy with everything else.

Look, they're again,

they're specifying like, oh, maybe you want a sauna or a hot top.

And I'm like, sounds good to me.

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Please.

Can I check that?

You want one of those in the recording, Stupid?

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I was going to say, you want to be the Dalton Trumbo a podcast.

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It also, it's the funniest thing to me that this remains their most expensive film.

I've erroneously said

it was Hudsucker, but I didn't realize this movie costs a reported $60 million.

I want to see what JJ's research says because I've seen that number.

And maybe it is truly just Clooney and Catherine got their quotes.

I also think a lot of self-development costs.

Maybe that's the cast remember that always counts against the film in this movie.

It just bopped around for 15 years.

Creek, I'm opening the dossier, actually.

Why not?

Because indeed, this is crucial to understanding Intalava Cruelty because it lived many lives before the Cohens made it.

It was written as a film by Robert Ramsey and Matthew Stone, who had made movies like Man of the House.

Of course.

Oh, Soul Man.

JTT, remember it well.

Life, the

Ted Demi, Martin Lawrence, Eddie Murphy, Dromedy.

That is like not bad.

Every time this comes up, that pops up the screen.

It's so close to being great that every five years I'll watch it and I'll be like, is it a masterpiece yet?

Like, do I need to put it back in the oven for five more years?

And they write this script.

Man of the House and Soul Man, of course, two of the least culturally problematic films ever made.

No, no, no, not Soul Man.

Oh, Soul Man.

Soul Men.

With Robert Downey Jr.

and Bertie Mac, which is a service.

Oh, Robert Downey Jr.

I mean, sex sexual dress.

You know,

a three-person.

I'm just going to say that still sounds problematic here.

He wanted to follow up his Tropic Thunder nomination.

I feel like that was like one of the last Bernie Mac movies, right?

Yeah, that came out in like after Intolerable Cruelty, right?

Soul Men came out in 2008.

Yes.

Yes.

I want to say Old Dogs is the last one to be released.

Possibly.

But I feel like it was the last one.

Soul Man was his last Bernie Mac movie.

Where he's above the title.

Anyway,

they wrote this

concept-based, you know, rom-com set in the world of divorce slur.

Okay, funny.

Michael Caton Jones, the director of Doc Hollywood, is attached.

That makes sense.

Sure.

Like, that sounds like a sort of okay rom-com from the 90s so far, right?

The Coens come on as screenwriters because Ron Howard picks it up and brings them in to polish it.

Right.

He wants to make it after rapping Ransom.

And then Howard moves on to make way for Andrew Bergman, the director of The Freshman.

It could happen to you.

Another guy who makes

that kind of 90s on bass single.

But it basically, I don't know if the pitch was this focused at the time, but I feel like my girlfriend was asking me, like, what is intolerable cruelty about?

And I was like, how do I logline it?

And it's interesting because this felt like a script that studios were so hot on for so long.

She just kept being like, someone's got to make it.

Right.

This is such a good premise.

And I was like, I guess the premise is

divorce lawyer who becomes obsessed with world's greatest gold digger.

There's that.

It's like there are stories.

Right, right.

There's a sincerity in it.

What if, right?

What if the world's most

brutal divorce lawyer and the world's greatest gold digger fell in love?

Right.

Yeah.

And they sort of become fascinated with each other.

But imagine Ron Howard doing that with like a few, like a gold digger.

Like there's a cynicism baked into it that's hard to imagine a lot of these people doing it.

But I mean, like, I just figure guys like Ron Howard are like, I'm making, Ron Howard is the ultimate journey.

He's like, I'm making a thriller.

Maybe I'll make a Ronaldo.

I'll make the softest version.

I think everyone else was going to make a much softer version of this.

Chronologically, this is the first four higher work Cohen's do.

Right.

This is the

polish of the script.

So

where are they?

This is before, like, in the period where they're, okay, the period where they're making Hudsucker and they haven't made any money.

So they're doing script doctors.

So I think it's in the immediate post-Hudsucker.

They do a pass on this.

That pass gets people really excited.

That's when it elevates to like, oh now it's ron howard level filmmakers interested so after bergman joe dante came aboard and was going to make it with jeremy irons and heather lockler bizarre which like they don't they're not a pair that makes sense nope uh jeremy irons like i could see that

uh howard then returns then leaves to make uh grinch and beautiful mind great other people are rewriting the script past the cohen draft at this point so they had moved on they've made virgo they they're good they can do other stuff then Then Jonathan Demi, who is clearly seeking out a sort of throwback-y movie and eventually makes it with Truth About Charlie.

But what is it?

Like, circles this one with Will Smith.

This is what's insane.

I need to just get this timeline clear here.

He's trying to do Truth About Charlie with Will Smith.

Will Smith is doing Ollie with Michael Mann.

Right.

And Ollie just takes too long.

Surprise of surprise.

Michael Mann movie runs over budget, over schedule.

And he's trying to.

And Will Smith is very much like, I don't care.

I will do anything for this movie.

Like, he was so in on Ollie.

Right.

That he's like, I guess I'll I'll wait for you.

Right.

There's the threat of a WGA strike that ends up not happening.

Right.

That was right.

You're right.

That has everyone panicked of, like, you got to get something made.

So then he's like, can I find something else?

Maybe I'll make something in the meantime.

So right then he circles this

and he's and he he wants Hugh Grant

and Tay Leone.

But

Leone

English?

Do you think Tay Leoni?

I watched a lot of Just Shoot Me in this period.

Well, she's not in that.

I love it.

She enjoyed it.

Gosh, she was on a show.

It was called The Naked Truth.

Okay, it was so.

What

do I know Taylor

from?

I mean, I think of Tay Leone as emerging with like Flirting with Disaster or whatever, right?

The David O'Reilly.

And then she was in Deep Impact.

Yes.

I took her from Deep Impact for sure.

I guess The Naked Truth is what I'm thinking of.

Right.

But her being in Deep Impact was kind of that thing of like, she was in a movie that made money.

yeah is she a star and like the answer family man i think she's very good and

sorry i didn't mean to put us on the tail yoni uh and then

a weekly cover for naked truth where i believe she's naked wrapping american flag

that all sounds about right um uh demi then

hops off to go back to truth about charlie he goes

who's going to be great i can't wait for will i'll do truth about charlie one of the worst movie star casting choices of all time not waiting for will smith And then he tries after the fact to do Intellibral Cruelty again with Will Smith because he's so angry that he missed his

shot.

He makes truth about Charlie.

He's coming off of that probably thinking, like, nailed that.

Everyone's going to love it.

And then, right, is like, I still have Taileone attached, and I'm now going to try and attract Will Smith.

Would Will Smith have been good in this movie?

Sure.

Yeah.

I think Will Smith has been good in this movie.

Not like Clooney, but I can still work.

I mean, like, Hitch Will Smith, the kind of like overconfident, but doesn't

be fine.

Hitch is the

completely different movie.

Will Smith rom-com vehicle.

Yeah.

Down to now understanding how much of that movie is like weirdly autobiographical.

Right.

So the Cohens, obviously, the whole time are around the script polishers, but they are developing To the White Sea.

They're

ill-begotten, never-made adaptation of a Jadium Sickie novel.

And obviously they want Brad Pitt, and that movie has bounced from Universal to 20th Century Fox.

It's this constant battle of like a budget between $40 and $60 million.

They can get it made for $40 with Brad Pitt, but every time they have a bunch of people.

The Cohen's want like 60 and they want to shoot it in Japan, and Fox keeps being like, isn't this like a movie with no dialogue that's like completely different?

It's tentatively like green lighted at 50 and then a new budget will come in that's 60 and

they're actively in the middle of this like after O'Brother trying to make To the White Sea.

The thing they keep trying to make by 2001, Joel Cohen says in an interview that To the White Sea, quote, went down the old Drainerino.

I do like that they're pretty, you know, kind of.

But they're like close to going.

Yes.

It falls apart, and they're like, I guess we're giving up on this for good.

Carter Burwell.

It's the one movie they to this day talk about as like, that was a movie we wanted to make.

Like, of course, they've had other projects that never came to fruition, but that's the only one.

And it's the great on-made movie.

Right.

In there, our friends Rachel and Torrey Jordan Fish, your former classmates.

My former classmates have done a great podcast about it, continue to do a great podcast about it.

But yes, it's the great on me comment.

I have a question, actually.

Were you in attendance of the early MGMT concert?

Yes, I've seen that video going around.

I'm not in that video, but like I have, I have gone, I have like Zapruder film gone through it being like, I've got to know someone who's in that.

I haven't been able to find it, but yes, I saw them play multiple house parties, circa 2004, 2003.

And you were like, this music of really crushing a commercial.

That kids was the song that they had in college that they would put it on at a party and everyone would go nuts.

Every wedding I've been to from someone from Wesleyan, like they always play kids.

Everyone always gets in.

It's a thing.

What was the other one?

There were two.

Kids and...

Oh, and Time to Pretend was there.

And famously from the Minecraft movie trailer.

Now beloved by children the world over.

I think Katie's right about this.

I think now.

Kids now love Time to Pretend.

The MGOT has had its generational moment.

It's a great song.

I love the second album, which is the one that everyone kind of

was when everyone was like, we're out.

I know.

It's the good one.

Congratulations.

The one with the optical illusion cover.

Well, there were different, there was a scratch-off cover for the vinyl release.

It's Trapper Key.

It's very Trapper Key.

I remember,

right?

Yeah.

So, yeah, that doesn't happen.

And they're disappointed.

Yes.

And they are coming up to this point where it's like, okay, do we like strip to the White Sea down to the tax and try to reconstitute it to something that's going to be cheaper or whatever.

Or do we fucking do something else?

Do we bury it?

Do we move on so we don't keep getting hung up losing years of our lives trying to make this?

At this point, Pitt has moved on, but they had Clooney

attached to Intolerable Cruelty.

I mean, to the White Sea.

And he's the one who's like, why don't we just fucking make Intolerable Cruelty?

Look at this script.

Because Universal has pushed.

that to him as a potential star of the evil.

And it's just there.

It's perfect.

We have always liked this script.

Clooney's response, response, by the way, now having worked with the Cohen brothers, they sent him the script.

He's like, can I read the Cohen's draft?

Oh, everything I've heard is that the Cohen's draft, like, he went to Universal and was like, can you dig that up?

That was the one that everyone got so excited about.

Can I go back and read that?

He reads that and he's like, I would do this.

He goes to them.

JJ has the quote in there, but Carter Burwell basically says that within the same week, they called him to say, unfortunately, to the White Sea is dead.

And then like three days later, said, we're going to to make Intolerable Cruelty.

I hope we get a chance to talk about Carter Burwell because he is on fire on this.

Unbelievable.

Carter Burwell lit himself on fire with, what was it, Blood Simple?

Like, what's the first movie?

He's been running on that.

He's been just one of those guys walking around on fire

ever since.

Incredible score that I think has never been released.

You cannot find this one.

Yeah, because it's like,

like, if I called Universal, they'd be like, what?

That movie?

We didn't make that movie.

Your phone would explode.

So,

but yes, Clooney's attached.

It's suddenly like super fast-tracked.

And Burwell was like, it felt like a breakup rebound thing of because Clooney is as hot as he can possibly be at this point.

He's hot stuff, although we're going to talk about his career in a second because he's in a little moment.

He's having a little moment here.

Post-Oceans, in 2001, I do think there is a feeling of he's cracked it 100%,

right?

The irony, of course, is that Clooney never is able to replicate mainstream crossover movie star in the pocket outside of the oceans trilogy in the way he did there.

But in that moment, I think they were like, he's crossed it all.

But you're forgetting the run is, it's really impressive.

After Batman and Robin, you know, so like, we all love Batman and Robin.

And then Peacemaker, which like did okay.

You've got like Out of Sight, which it just does okay, but is such a smash, critically.

Which is the movie star persona.

Like, that's where he figures it out.

Like, that's the start of it.

And then Three Kings, which does pretty good and again, gets amazing reviews.

And then Perfect Storm, O'Brother, Ocean's 11.

I know.

It's pretty nuts.

But O'Brother, not O'Brother, I'm sorry.

Ocean's 11 is one of the 10 highest-grossing films of the year.

You're not going to beat Ocean's 11.

And even in this big ensemble thing, you were like, this guy's undeniable.

He's taking the Kerry Grant mantle.

I think that's a lot of the feeling.

Totally.

Yeah.

He's now the mayor of the world.

Slap a tux on this guy and we'll want it.

But what does he want to make?

He wants to make an out-and-out comedy.

It's funny that that he's saying that because it's like, he did make O'Brother, but I guess O'Brother is like such an odd movie.

Right.

And he's like, can I fucking make a comedy?

He's also

editing Confessions of a Dangerous Mind, which, of course, he directed.

Yeah.

And he has, like, he's finishing work on Solaris, Stephen Soderbergh's film, The Laugh Riot of 2002,

which is, I mean, one of my favorite movies of all time, but it's a gloomy film.

Let us say.

Let us say.

And

so I'm sure he wants to shake the sillies out a little bit, right?

Like he's like, let me, you know, be a buffoon again for the Cohens.

Yeah.

And I think this is interesting is this is from a Vanny Fair piece 2003.

I did not work on it.

I knew you didn't.

Yeah, I did.

Where he says, he's like, this, it is kind of a terrifying thing to do because this could be so bad.

Like when you're reading the script, this rat-a-tat, this screwball thing where of like, I have to go for it, right?

Like I'm going to have to give like a really big performance.

And he does and rocks, but it could be so like

incredible in this.

Yes, but it's not like he's doing anything that silly, like, he's he's not the big goofy character.

I mean, there's no, I guess he wears a kilt, but like, you know, the Baron and all those other side characters are doing so much of the height and stuff, and he's in the like locked-in Carrie Grant mode.

It's just very stylized, yes, it's a stylized performance, which speaks to why audiences bumped on this movie in general.

Yeah, what is this weird thing going on here without it having the clear signposts of being a period piece, being more stylized?

Yeah.

Rumor has a top choice for this movie.

It's Julia Roberts.

Makes perfect sense.

Obviously, Clooney has literally just worked with her twice, Oceans and Confessions.

Yeah.

They're pals.

But Catherine Xander Jones has just won her Oscar.

Sure has.

Right?

Although, I have to imagine, was this filmed after that?

It must have been.

Chicago was

obviously

Oscar like March 2003.

2003.

You're right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, this film's, but this film's after Chicago's done, but it filmed in June 2002.

Oh, wild.

But they knew that she was going to

Chicago did feel like a.

Did you hear that Chicago's good?

Like it was not

seen as an Oscar contender until like October.

Because it was supposed to be Kings of New York, right?

Right.

And people were just like, that can't can't be good.

And it is crazy that it came in and just fucking right, like elbowed Marty out of the way.

And who's the other?

There's two big

hours.

Well, Penis came on late.

It was the hours, I guess.

Two towers is two towers.

That's what everyone was sort of like,

we'll get there.

And that's the year where I is every

best picture nominee produced by either Rudin or Weinstein?

Except for

The Hours the one Rudin.

No, but Weinstein has his name on it.

Oh, that's the thing.

He still had his name on it.

He did a lot of work.

Yeah.

Right.

And his name is on it because he fired Peter Jackson or whatever the fuck.

Nice work, if you can guess.

He didn't, like, I think Weinstein's involvement with Chicago was low, but it was

a Miramax movie.

Yes, it was.

Gangster New York was obviously...

the Weinstein one where he actually gets a nomination for that one.

And then I do think he had something to do with the pianist as well.

Oh, I don't know.

Maybe not.

Or no.

No.

No, the pianist was somebody else.

The pianist was

fucking.

Who even released the pianist?

Focus?

No.

Canal Plus.

Wikipedia is really not coming through on this one.

Yeah.

Who knows?

Who can say?

It's a mystery.

We'll never know.

Anyway, they had a great time making this movie.

The Cohen's did very little press.

JJ's apologizing.

I don't know why you need to apologize to me.

I don't employ you because you're fired.

Apparently, they were already shooting the lady killers when this movie came out.

Okay.

So I guess they didn't do much press.

They liked that it was set in the present.

Cool.

Cool.

Roger Deakins was coming off shooting House of Sand and Fog, another laugh riot.

PS was released by Focus.

Yes.

There you go.

Carter Burwell says he settled on a Mancini, Mancini approach, light-hearted, 60s jazz pop.

And it's a classic him reappropriating other music into the score beautifully, much like Hudsucker.

And the film premiered.

And I would say this is mistake number one at the Venice International Film Festival.

Oh, wow.

Out of competition as a work in progress, which is insane.

I think it was still missing a scene or two.

It did come out in October.

And then it came out in October.

Like, do not release this in October.

Yeah, put it out of this.

This is a spring or summer movie.

Yeah.

Like, it's a light rom-com.

But this speaks to them not knowing, like, is this a straight-down-the-middle play and we're hiding the ball on Cohen's weirdness?

Yeah.

Right.

Or do we want some level of like Cohen's prestige?

Yeah.

But it looks like America's Sweethearts or some other kind of modern-day rom-com.

So getting that prestige, even getting the Cohen's people on board, I think, is challenging because you look at the poster for it.

You're like, I know what that is.

The most generic poster in the world.

They take this beautiful two-shot.

They're sitting next to each other.

Well, there's this beautiful two-shot of like just

movie star glow of Clooney and Zeta Jones in the elevator.

a scene that is like thrown off its hump by a dog biting his hand and a bunch of funny dialogue right stuff and they just like screenshot that yeah and then remove the elevator and put them in front of the most generic blue cloud trees or whatever right sky yeah

what can I tell the font is bad the font's bad

do you like do you guys like the um actual opening credit you know the the the sort of love it's the suspicious minds right you know the uh the

cupids and the hearts yeah it's fun right right?

Yes.

You're the card.

It's like Monty Python, Flying Circle.

It's very good.

I think they got opening title sequences.

I didn't go through enough of everyone.

I would say so, but this is a movie that demands it, I would say.

This is their most.

I'm trying to think of other films of theirs that have kind of like

standalone.

They don't crush it.

Because, like, Hutsucker, you go through the city, but that's like the set.

I mean, like, Raising Arizona has the like unbelievable like whistle, you know, yodeling, you know, like title rushing at you.

They'll crush an opening title.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But they don't usually.

But this kind of sequence.

Yes.

Yeah.

Having like a cold open and then cutting to the title like makes sense for them.

But like the Cupids felt, you know, the movie.

It's not just this movie opening with like, what is Jeffree Rush doing in this?

How does this factor into the plot?

It takes so long to circle back in any way.

Yeah.

My thing.

So my thing with this movie is I see when it comes out, I think it's great.

And I'm immediately like the only fan of it.

You know, and it's quickly forgotten.

And then over the years, I will show it to anyone I date, any pal of of mine, because I'm like, because they're always like, oh, I just want to watch something light.

And I'm like, have I got a light movie for you?

The Cohen brothers made a rom-com with George Croney.

Do you want to watch it?

Every single one of them.

It starts with the Jeffrey Rushing, and they're just like, okay.

And it loses them.

Why is it?

It never gets them back.

Tailed in the butt with a golden glow.

And screaming bitch at a car.

It's a, oh, God, no.

It's like, it's not an enemy.

It's like a, not a kid sword, but it's a made up.

It's a made-up.

Yeah.

Okay.

But like, and you just, and then, like, you know, oh, Clooney's here and they're doing the right.

And I'm like, listen to this rather chat dialogue.

And they're just like, I don't care.

Like, it's never worked on anyone I've ever shown.

It's wild.

Isn't that weird?

Or am I the fool?

I mean, I said the thing about Jeffrey Rush earlier.

Like, I don't think it's that he's bad, but it's obviously.

And there's something about that sequence being like, oh, she caught it.

She got, he caught his wife sleeping with the pool guy.

Like, oh, I kind of get what this is.

Like, the Cohen twist on it takes time to merge.

I think you need a name like Rex Rex Roth and like the train stuff.

Like the, you know, the sequence later where it's him, you know, driving with the, the girl in the hotel room and Cedric the Entertainer busts in.

Like all the train stuff is so funny and specific.

And the Jeffrey Rush stuff feels more generic.

Oh, Hollywood divorce kind of thing.

I think that's part of the challenge.

You're right.

It's very

broad.

Right.

Yeah.

And it's kind of nonspecific.

Yeah.

To me, I don't know what you mean.

Kind of earthy.

And you're sort of like, what does this have to do with anything?

Yeah.

I mean, it makes sense.

They need this big of an opening credit sequence because you kind of need to like palette reset immediately.

You've also, it's like, you know, you need to understand that this guy, Jeffrey Rush, like nailed his wife in Flagrante so hard and yet Miles Massey like took him for everything.

Yeah, right.

Like this guy is unbeatable.

When you get Clooney in there and being like, well, and we assume that he beat you or that he was trying to sleep with the pool guy or whatever, like that, that's the tone is coming into play.

Who's the lady?

She's very funny.

She's got great face.

Yes.

I'll look her up.

I meant to look her up also.

But yeah.

Stacey Travis.

But the movie doesn't resume with them in court.

It just kind of jumps ahead and you understand that is another battle he won.

I do love the setup of just this guy is so fucking good at divorce law that he's bored, right?

That he can just pull off anything.

You can see how thoroughly the DAC is stacked against the guy.

I think it's great.

Exactly.

I think that's so funny.

It's like, like, right, like he's done it all.

He's done the hardest thing.

So then when Edward Herman shows up, by the way, Edward Herman also hidden

right.

Chugga chugga choo.

So funny and is basically like, hi, like I cheat on my wife all the time.

Right.

She's caught me doing it.

I don't have a prenup.

Right.

And I, like, you know, I've been married to her for a while.

She tries to use the open marriage excuse.

Yeah.

Right.

Was that talked about?

Was it agreed upon?

Well, Clooney's like, you want to like put your unoffending wife out on her.

And you propose

she have her taught.

And Clooney's face

light up.

It's so obscene.

I guess I could try.

In spite of demonstrable infidelity.

With Clooney's performance, I thought so much of Fantastic Mr.

Fox because it's a similar rat-at-tap vibe into like, oh, what's left for me in my life?

It really feels like Wes Anderson saw this movie and was like, that's a thing.

That's a really good thing.

Now that Clooney just did a bomb back and is, you know.

You know, whatever, seems to be sort of getting limber again.

Oh, it's coming.

Can I do a Wes?

Can I have live-action Wes?

it would be soons it would be really happened you know the whole thing with fantastic mr fox is that he didn't record them in booths oh yeah they're all running around in circles in

the grass his home yeah and they acted out the whole movie on like mini dv cameras and he pulled that audio so you can see there's like 90 minutes of clooney acting through all of fantastic mr yeah he's like doing somersaults in the backyard yard yeah and they'll show those clips sometimes and i'm like can you please put that full cut out there?

I want that now.

Right.

But I'm just like,

they're great maps.

Oh, totally.

He rocks in Finesse and Mr.

Fox.

Like, give me more of that please.

Yep.

I think we're just also generally, we've just been for years saying, hey, George, how about you direct fewer movies?

Be a movie star, which you are better at than anyone else.

So that's just right.

Let's just touch on Clooney.

Now, we've done Clooney before, obviously.

And we just did O'Brother, and we will be doing Burn and

Caesar.

What else have we done over the year?

Well, we did the Oceans.

Oceans on Patreon.

We did Batman and Robin on Patreon.

You guys have been avoiding Soderbergh.

Tomorrowland.

We've been avoiding him.

You've done Tomorrowland.

Yeah, we did Tomorrowland, which is not a...

He's not bad in it or anything, but it's such an odd performance because he's so depressed.

You haven't done Money Monster?

No Money Monster fans in here?

We haven't done Money Monster.

I did that on this at Oscar Buzz.

I will defend that movie.

Really?

It's not great.

Yeah, that movie would be great, but I mean, it's just the most crucial performance is one of the worst screen performances I've ever seen from a good actor or sometimes a good actor.

The Jack O'Connell.

He's so powerful.

I've still never seen it.

It just ruins.

Jack O'Connell's coming back.

Now's the time to reappraise him.

Yeah.

Yeah, well, then he should

extend that movie.

He should pay to have that movie behind him.

He was a good actor in other things.

He's so off in that movie.

I remember nothing about Clooney.

I remember Julia being good in it.

Yeah.

But a bit of a boring role.

But, you know, anyway.

But it does feel like the last 10 years, every time he's been like, I'm ready to do the movie star thing again, he's kind of picked wrong.

Like, it's Money Monster, Tomorrowland, all these look good on paper.

Ticket to Paradise, which I feel like everyone was so forgiving of because they were like, this is what we want you to do.

It's a wet blanket of a movie.

But everyone was like, okay.

I watched it on a plane, which is it's natural.

Wolves.

And still, it's

Wolfs didn't even get that treatment.

Had it been released in theaters, people might have, again, kind of been like, we appreciate you trying.

Did you like Wolfs?

I never saw it.

So bad.

Okay.

I think it really stinks.

I watched it after months of everyone telling me how hard it stunk.

And I'm sitting there and I'm like, this is totally scratching the itch.

What's everyone talking about?

And then it ended.

And immediately I was like, that sucks.

I was kind of riding along with it the whole time in cruise altitude and was like, whatever.

It's

bad oceans.

Right.

And then it ends and you're like, that was nothing.

It really is.

What a waste of everyone's time and energy.

The audacity to be like, well, maybe Wolfs 2 is coming.

And you're like, don't fucking

get it.

Gonna huff and puff and tell me he'll blow this house down.

And indeed, he's just been making his own films.

Yeah, he's in Midnight Sky to his credit.

It's terrible.

No credit movie assigned him.

I mean, we want them to be in his own movies.

Yeah, but you're like, do you?

The thing about the Midnight Sky is you watch it

and you're like, I can't believe this isn't the worst movie George Clooney has directed.

And like, I never saw the boys in the boat.

I do need to see those boys.

I did never see the boys in the boat.

Tender bar was one of those things where I'm like, hey, you got to a C-.

Like,

something's happening where you're improving a little bit.

That movie was watchable.

But you see Boys in the Boat is.

Affleck is throwing smoke.

He's really good in that.

And Tender Bar.

Are you sure he does?

He'd be getting an Oscar nomination if this movie weren't directed by George Clooney.

Possibly.

And also, it was one of those

pandemic movies that went right to streaming where it's like, you're not going to be.

But Aflek's great.

I remember the year that Suburban Comm was at TIFF.

And David, you talked to Clooney then because I think he was trying to go around being like, look, I'm George Clooney.

I directed the movie.

No, but it was like the pre-release apology.

Let me explain.

Basically, like trying to tell you why his movie actually isn't that bad.

It is one of my favorite, my single favorite things that came out in the Sony hacks was his email to Amy Pascal after the first completed screening of Monuments Men, where he's like, Amy, what can I say?

Sometimes you miss.

I'm sorry.

You gave me a bunch of money.

You entrusted me.

Sometimes the elements just don't don't come together.

We're all embarrassed by this one.

We're going to hold our heads high and march forward.

And you're like, he fucked up monuments, man.

And when that movie was announced on paper, you were like, unquestionable B-minus.

Such a sleepy movie.

Like,

that one at least made money.

Shockingly.

Shockingly.

Well, because Einstein Marsh was right before that.

And that movie was, was that a B-minus?

I don't remember it that way.

I felt like we received a movie.

I despise that movie.

I was literally nominated for an Academy Award for writing it.

Yeah.

One of the most most charitable Oscar nominations I've ever seen.

I think it was charitable.

That was a rough Oscar.

Treat it like a B minus when it's more of a C plus.

Yeah.

It is an F.

That movie is

really ransom.

Would you like it now having seen Midnight Sky?

It's Open.

I'd have March is worse because it really thinks it's smart.

And it's like, we are, this is a really, really sophisticated political thriller.

And it's like really.

It's got kind of nasty.

It's a bad, bad movie.

If anything, we were maybe a little kinder to it in the moment because you were like, look, Leatherheads was a mistake.

He's getting back to the kind of thing he should be making because he was on Good Night and Good Luck for such a long time being like, Look, that movie works.

It's not as good as Good Night and Good Luck, but he's back in his area.

Yep, yep, yep.

And now you're just like, the guy lost it, and he was never getting it back.

He got a lot.

I mean, because Leatherheads

is also

that, you know, the occasional Hail Mary you see someone throw of like, can we do kind of a Breston Sturgis thing?

Yeah, like you're throwing a football at you.

And like Leatherheads also is bad.

Yeah.

But beyond it being bad, it's like also, even if you make a good one, audiences are mostly just going to be like, eh, I don't know.

Your old-timey foosball little triangle.

I'm just doing this kind of like, take the ball.

Come on.

You want it?

Yeah.

Come on.

And John Krzeynski got to continue being a movie star after that.

Despite that, it feels

like he was one of the big people pushing the Krasinski project for a long time.

I think so.

Well, he's a voice and if.

I'm looking at his MDV.

I forgot all about it.

I think Krzezynski's really good at making friends.

I'm not saying Krasinski has no talent, but he's really, because I hear a lot about really respected people who love John Krasinski, and I'm always like, really?

But also, I think he's a nice

15 years of Damon and Clooney being like, we're telling you Krasinski is the next one of us.

And it's

a long way.

Yes.

We're writing movies with him.

Yeah.

We're casting him.

We think he's got the goods to be a multi-tool player.

If, I just want to call out the single greatest movie to play in Cinematrix,

oh, because everybody's in it because it has 28-list voice actors with one sentence.

Yep, I just implore all of our listeners to look up the character posters for if there's like 40 of them.

That's all you need to memorize, is just the character posters, yeah, because there's just that one scene where I have seen the motion picture if I saw it in theaters, uh, and they all just come in for a hot second, or Clooney might be in like the post-credits.

No, it's Brad Pitt, who shows up at the very, very end as like a silent character.

You play a pit

spaceman.

Or Clooney.

Yep.

If on Cinematrix.

You are guaranteed one, if not zero percent.

I got to get back into Cinematrix.

I've let it fall off.

So, but Clooney, what's interesting about Clooney is he just had that run that I just shouted out, right?

The sort of late 90s, early 2000s.

He did it after, of course, being a star on the biggest TV show in America, which is, you know, no, not Chocolate either.

And then it's like

Confessions of a Dangerous Mind, which is a, you know, a niche movie.

It's pretty good.

Solaris, which is a huge bomb and is a masterpiece, according to like eight people, one of whom is me.

Intolerable cruelty, Ocean's 12.

And then like one year later, he does Good Night and Good Luck in Siriana and wins the Oscar.

Yeah.

And that's one of those things of like, okay,

good job.

Right.

You won an Oscar.

Yes.

You gave a fatuous speech that everyone kind of made fun of, but like you won an Oscar.

Right, Smuggler.

But doesn't it kind of feel like it's like over?

A little bit?

Right there?

Like it's like he still makes

Ocean 13, Michael Clayton.

He makes good movies.

Michael Clayton is not a movie.

No, but

it's a new era.

It's like now it's like gray-hair clooney.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like he's no longer, he's already kind of gone away from whatever this little era was, the out of sight to support.

I think what next, the next era is

it's Descendants, up in the air, and

gravity.

The American, which

I remember that

burn after reading, obviously, Michael Clayton.

The big three for me, the three best actor nominations of Michael Clayton,

up in the air, and descendants are like he cut his quote to nothing.

He worked with a younger or rising autor.

Right.

And he like pushed the movie to like best picture, best director status, got a best actor nomination.

All three times, people were like, is he going to win a second acting Oscar?

Because he was sort of so in his movie star pocket.

And all three of those movies become like crossover

middlebrow hits.

But also like up in the air, 80 domestic descendants, like 70 domestic.

Michael Clayton, 60 domestic.

It was like he is willing to like cut his quote to like $2 million and make a movie a crossover.

That felt like a kind of good period for a a moment.

But it's like it's a somewhat distinct era.

Like it's distinct from that first one.

And it's almost like ends with like Tomorrowlands.

I would agree.

Yeah.

And I'd say, which is like him trying to make a more traditional

pole again.

Right.

Yeah.

Because Money Monster coming out the same year as Hail Spider

Money Monster doesn't exist.

That's the true epic.

That's the end.

But like Hail Spider and then Gravity, those are like sort of like, I'll do a supporting role to help out a project kind of things.

Right.

But you're right that all of these roles are now like kind of postmodern clooney movie star persona where he's playing the sad over-the-hill version.

The totem you build the movie around being like this movie is aware of his star persona.

It has to exist to make this movie.

Yeah, exactly.

We're like showing that maybe this guy's kind of broken inside.

Doesn't Casamigos

weigh into this

exactly for you?

In 2013, no, I'm going to tell you exactly what happened.

Hail Caesar Money Monster 2016.

He sold the company, Casamigos, well, tequila operation he has going on with his buddy, ride motorcycles, house of friends, wear jackets in 2017.

I interview him.

It's sold.

You said okay.

He sold it in 2017.

I interview him in 2017 for Suburbicon.

And he says very blankly, like, I have more money than God.

Like, I mean, he doesn't say exactly that, but he's basically like, from now on, if I am in something or if I'm making something, it is only because I'm interested in it.

I have, Hollywood can give me nothing like money-wise.

And then you have so much money.

You look at the CV from that point on and you're like, huh, so you're exclusively interested in boaring dogs?

Shitty taste, huh?

But like, it truly is.

He's basically, and I appreciate, in theory, because all the movies he made are, you know, not franchise movies.

He's making original stuff.

Like, yada, you know, it's like, in theory, I'm like, cool, thank you.

Good job.

But it's just, they're all bad.

Is he a blank check director?

Sure.

One of the worst.

You guys are going to have a great time on that one.

Are you aware that he was in a limited series version of Catch 22?

I guess directly

to the 2020s.

He directed the entire thing.

He went to every streamer because that was Hulu.

Yep.

And then Midnight Sky was Netflix.

Tenderbar was Amazon.

And I swear there's an Apple one in there too.

Boys, Wolves.

Wolves.

Boys in the Boat was Amazon MG.

Yes, that was also Amazon.

Like, he just

hopped around the streamers, collecting bags of money to give them C, you know, C plus.

Everybody, take your C22.

No, Catch 22 was him and Grant Haslov wrote and directed, and he was going to play the lead at the last second.

He decided he was too old.

So he he has to have it right and he plays

off he plays a smaller role right um but you know big cat you know kyle chandler and lewis pullman and you know lots doesn't exist

i mean and i look i if i'm clooney i can be like well the pandemic you know like you can sort of but it's like not just the pandemic you have he's a smart guy when i interviewed him he's so smart he's married to this like you know genius he's like political yada yada but like i'm like yeah but he's kind of middle brown like he is And it's like,

when he was picking your up in the airs, your descendants, those are middle brown movies.

Yeah.

Even Michael Clayton, they're just like really good ones.

I mean, Descendants is just okay.

And that was up in the airs.

He was making like

incredible, intelligent adult popcorns.

And then suddenly it's like he's making unseasoned vegetables every time.

Yes.

He's just boiling some broccoli.

But like pureeing.

He's like pureeing

boiled uninterrupted.

Does he have bad taste?

Because he can't.

He works with so many people.

Medium tastes.

I guess so.

And then he's, yes, he's smart enough.

Look, I don't know.

I have great taste, in my opinion.

Can you direct?

Can you direct Boys in the Bowford?

No, but I'm saying, like, and if you were like, here, you have unlimited money in clout, David.

What do you want to make?

I'd probably make a bunch of dog shit.

I'm not that like you have to be a certain kind of person.

And I do think pressure helps.

Yes.

You know, like, it's better to be under pressure.

Clooney's under no pressure.

Uh-huh.

So, like, that's that's probably kind of bad in a way.

Let's also call out on top of of the fucking Casamigos money.

Yeah.

He's also already rich, we should point out.

Already rich, but also gravity,

the FX budget was so huge on that movie, and it was developed to be Angelina Jolie and Robert Downey Jr., and they both drop out late.

Right.

And when he goes to Bullock and Clooney, he's like, I can't offer you money because the money's all on screen.

You both get back end.

I believe Clooney got tens of millions of dollars for that.

He made a ton of money for that.

Sandra Bullock made like 100 movies.

I hope she made more.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, Sandra Bullock made, again, the kind of money where you're like, huh, she just kind of stopped making movies, huh?

Like, because she just doesn't.

That's always what I want to happen for, especially for actors.

I truly think she made 100.

I think she did.

I mean, it was a huge movie.

They made like 750 million thousand.

But the moon.

The moon though.

The moon, they had to shoot it at it with a big cannon.

The money they shot at.

Big bag of money.

They could have orbit around the moon as we speak.

No, it was such a big hit.

And because it was seen as so risky, they offered them so much of first dollar.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So let's defend intolerable cruelty.

Yeah, I was going to say.

David.

Yes.

Can I identify your single biggest issue?

You might as well.

Call me out.

I think I finally, it's been 10 years of the podcast, about 15 years of friendship.

I think I finally nailed.

Tell me.

What is it?

Your butt.

You're too much of a yes man, like the Jim Carrey comedy.

Okay, yeah.

Okay, so Zoe Deschenel's hanging around me.

Absolutely, Bradley Cooper.

You need to start being more of a Dr.

No, James Bond's first film entry.

Of course.

And we all know who played Dr.

No, and you're going to tell me right now.

If you're still overpaying for wireless, it's time to say yes to saying no.

So maybe you actually need to combine yes, man, and Dr.

No.

Joseph Wiseman, just by the way.

Oh, of course.

We all knew that.

I was saying that.

At Mint Mobile, I was just ramping up to that.

Their favorite word is no, Dr.

No played by Joseph Wiseman.

No contracts, no monthly bills, no overages, no hidden fees, no BS.

Oh, my goodness.

And

what's the yes that you get?

Here's why I said yes as in yes, man, the Jim Carrey vehicle to making the switch and getting premium wireless for $15 a month.

Wow, I know why you did it because it's $15 a month at Mint.

Well, yeah, sure.

Yeah, you can ditch overpriced wireless and they're jaw-dropping monthly bills, unexpected overages and hidden fees.

Jaw dropping is kind of like a thing from the mask, the different Jim Carrey movie.

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I was worried that I was going to say Robert Wise instead.

That's why I didn't have the courage.

I was like, I think it's Joseph Wiseman, but I was worried I was going to flip it.

David?

Yes.

I wear glasses.

Ah, to see.

I do, in fact, wear them to see.

I used to wear them as an affectation when I was a child.

Well, I did the same thing.

Yep.

I pretended they were real.

And then people found me out to be a fake.

And then because of that, when I started actually needing glasses and wearing them for real, all my friends

were convinced that it is still just an affectation, but it is not.

I

do them to see.

My vision gets worse.

By the minute, it feels like sometimes.

But...

I just stopped wearing mine.

Yeah, how's that going for you?

It sucks.

Yeah.

See, this is the thing, Ben.

What do you mean?

Why'd you stop?

I just got lazy.

Ben, you got to get your butt to Warby Parker.

You're the one who's always telling me the value of throwing a good fit, right?

Yeah.

And feeling good.

It affecting your whole sense of self, right?

And Warby Parker is like throwing a fit for the face.

Yeah.

It is.

It truly, it immediately improves your quality of life.

It's like I'm bored with glasses.

Right.

Warby Parker used premium materials.

They designed frames in-house.

They've got silhouettes, colors, and fits made to fit every face.

I love the frames themselves, but let me, can I just talk about the experience?

Because, David, I went through it again recently.

Okay.

I had an old pair of glasses that had been my mains for a while break on me.

After several years of loyal service, I salute them.

And I went and it was one-stop shopping.

I said, it's been two years.

Let me get a new vision test.

Get your eye exam.

We get examed, new prescription, eye pressure test and then immediately while i'm waiting for the results i'm going around i'm looking at frames i'm trying them on and there's a flexibility there right folks just want cool sunglasses you can get them cheaper at warby parker than a lot of other places but sometimes you see a sunglass frame you like and you go can i actually get this in clear vision lenses can i get this pair meant to be readers as sunglasses.

You can try on all sorts of crazy stuff.

This is my new thing I'm into, sunglass clip-on.

So, you just got the one pair.

Sure, can pull the um Chris Farley meme.

Warby Parker has over 300 locations to help you find your next pair of glasses.

You can also head over to warvyparker.com/slash check right now to try on any pair virtually.

That's warvyparker.com/slash check.

Warvy Parker.com/slash check.

And if people want to flip it griff style, I'll just say I'm currently rocking the toddy, wide frames, and tortoise shell.

so we go yeah jeffree rush extended sequence and then we go to edward herman who loves trains

do we think he has a full like he has to the trains have to be involved for him to get it up There's this sort of like quiet acknowledgement of like trains are involved with sex.

I mean, what's his line?

He says to Clint,

like she lets me be myself.

Yes.

Oh, he's so happy about it, too.

But But there's weird sex stuff before that, too, because you see Clooney in the courtroom with the like the woman who's like, and he built devices with that cube and cleaner.

Which is like a preview of Burn After Reading with a sex machine.

One of the greatest

slow burn bits of all time.

It just feels very Cohen's of like, right, let's cast the most milquetoast middle-aged lady with like big hair and glasses and have her be like, I was his sexual slave, you know, while like Clooney and Paul Adelstein are just like bickering with each other.

It's also the kind of thing that the Cohens love to just like come in on.

It's just like, it's so funny that there's just this fucking whatchamacallit.

The like the typist, the courts denominate.

Oh, oh, yeah.

Yeah.

When she comes to later, being like, do you want a milk bone?

Woof, woof, or whatever.

But it's just like, if that didn't exist, the Cohens would create it.

So you're telling me some disaffected middle-aged women

to just sit there at a typewriter and type up every insane thing said in a court.

I mean, thinking of the woman in the courtroom in this one, I'm thinking of the woman in the trailer park in No Country for Old Men.

Are they the best at like middle-aged women with dowdy hair just being flat?

It's hilarious.

It's vital to me.

Yes.

It's they're gestalt or whatever.

Yes.

It's essential to them.

But also,

I guess they've never made a legal movie before, right?

You know, like the courtroom is a great venue for them to be silly.

Yeah.

And all of the courtroom scenes in this movie are so funny.

Yeah.

Poetry recitation, objection you're on to strangling a witness.

I'm going to allow it.

Like stuff like that.

Of course, so broad.

It's just like this sort of get-smart joke of like, Heinz the Baum Kraus von Espi.

And then

the bailiffs keep opening doors and announcing it further and further and further.

Let's also call out Katie.

She specifically said a silly man.

I love that.

Who's that guy?

Yeah, who is that guy?

That's fucking, what's his name?

Jonathan Hardesty?

Yes, you're right.

Jonathan Haytery.

Haddery.

He's the lawyer in fucking Margaret.

He's the guy who runs all the prisons, the for-profit prison monger in Veep.

Right?

Yeah, he's did a bunch of Veep.

His daughter is Mary Holland, who Tim Simons gets hooked up with.

Okay.

He's like in a thousand things.

He's got a ton of credits.

He's different in this than everything else that I always forget it's him.

But he's got the eyes.

He always has those eyes, but you're right.

He usually plays a kind of like rumpled Menshe.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's so fucking funny.

He's so good.

But Katie, you alluded to this, but the introduction of Clooney is through his teeth.

Right?

So that were hard and truths to him.

Oh, brother, it's his hair, here it's his teeth.

The bleaching, yes.

I just like this immediate, like, we're dealing with the ultimate movie star.

Yeah.

And we're starting out by showing you how the sausage get made.

Yeah.

It gets made of like how much work goes into making this guy look like this.

And it helps balance the scales of the women and the plastic surgery, I think, because I do like the way that it gets at like rich Hollywood people, like that part of it like works less well to me, like the women sitting by the pool and talking about their lipo section and stuff like that like that again feels more broad and cohen'sy but having that emphasis on clooney i think helps balance it out and like the pan to his like movie star smile and the score you know swells as he's standing at the desk like it it it brings it back to being something more than just synagogue minds in the sport so good it's so good and it also it's just like

It gives you a drum roll.

So when you get to the full reveal of Clooney's full face, because we're seeing him in the chair first, then we're seeing him in the car with the reflection.

It's that you're only seeing the teeth and nothing else, and you're just seeing him test out the teeth in the rearview mirror and everything.

It feels so satisfying when you're getting the full cloony burst.

But I also like that it's kind of a everyone wants to be Clark Gable, even me thing.

Yeah, of like this guy is a construction, these people are constructions.

Yep, no one is just like this.

Yeah, and these people are very caught up in their reputation and their mythology and the massey prenup and all these things.

And then we're just seeing him, right?

He's he's an ultimate conqueror but he's so bored he can barely get it up for this he's uh torn down his house twice just for fun yes like right we never see his house he has a tab at the mercedes dealership um we don't think we ever see his house we know it's at the at the end that's where the house invasion is because she's in his house isn't she yeah and you see his tennis court right over but like he's a person with no interests he's only good at this yeah um well that's what i mean he's created of course the an unbreakable pre-inupt agreement that is like legally profound.

Which I just think is like a perfect screwball thing about just like you come up with the idea of something that is so important and so huge that you will never break down and explain.

They never get into what makes the massive prenup so good.

If you tear a piece of paper, does that render it legally invalid?

In this movie, it does seem to me if that's real.

But that's why Richard Jenkins saw it putting it all

in the briefcase and running away is really funny.

You're like, he's going to tape it up.

The massey prenup.

But then also, we should acknowledge Edward Herman as busted by a camera crew led by Gus Petch.

Gus Petch, played by Cedric the Entertainer, who's like firmly in his early post-barber shop, you know, kind of original Kings of Comedy, where it's just like, get this guy in movies.

10 minutes of Cedric, please.

Yes.

Yep.

Like, he's going to nail your ass.

And, like, right, you're ordering it.

And then you're like, and you know what?

10 minutes of Cedric.

Have him in there.

Gus Petch likes doing one thing.

Nail an ass.

He sees an ass and he nails it.

Yes.

Man, I would have kicked his ass if he busted in on me.

You would have nailed his ass for trying to nail yours.

I would have took that camera and I would have fucking nailed his ass with it.

I do love this.

Is the only period where it would still be like an over-the-shoulder.

It's less fun if it's a stupid story.

And it is have huge lights glaring on that poor woman and her underwear.

But you're right.

It is a thing that I think people couldn't verbalize at the time where they were like, how can this movie exist in a modern reality TV landscape, but yet everyone is talking like they are in the Great Depression?

Yeah, which makes perfect, like, it's fine if you want to set that up, but like getting people to actually buy into it without actually seeing it is the hard part.

Yes.

So,

yes, he successfully defends Rex Rex Roth.

Rex Rex Roth.

Rex Roth Ross.

Rex Roth.

This is also Edward Herman, of course, is like right in the middle of his sweetie run on Gilmore Girls.

So it's fun to see him be a rascal.

Yeah.

And even though Marilyn, Kathleen Zia Jones, is ostensibly in the right, basically, They've got the great showdown with Richard Jenkins.

You know, that's the

Kirschner.

Kirscher's in Kentucky.

Nuts, have you forgotten Kirshner?

This was the scene.

I'd watched the movies a couple of days ago, and my girlfriend was disappointed because she was like, oh, I've never seen that one.

And I was like, I just watched it.

Just show you the one scene.

So, like, show you the thing that no one gets.

And I think you'll lock into it immediately.

And I just showed her this one scene, and it's just like a three-minute symphony of dialogue.

Yep.

It is basically just two two-shots Yes.

Reverse.

Yes.

Right.

Around a table, just on fire.

Just like precision Swiss watch timing and the overlapping threads that keep circling back.

The way that it implies the relationship between Jenkins and Clooney, everybody's like, oh, sorry about the award or whatever it was.

And he's like taunting him over the pastry.

He's like, there's so much history between those two guys.

He just knows exactly how to like cuck him.

Yes.

And make him have a double chance.

Jenkins is just so good at the, I mean, you know, he's just perfect.

It's not like early in Richard Jenkins' career.

Obviously, he's been working for so long.

The 2000s are when Hollywood starts finally giving him his power.

He's not six feet under at this point.

Yes, but he was, he was like, you know, a spark plug in that show.

Yeah.

Because he was dead.

Spoiler alert for the opening seconds of very first.

But he dies.

But he comes back a lot.

And he's ghosts and he'll come in and like be sarcastic and all that.

And like he's in Man Who Wasn't There also is a lawyer, from what I remember.

We haven't done that episode yet.

And the Cohens love him.

And I remember they gave some interview where you're like, if you need like a sort of milquetoast fussy guy, like Richard Jenkins, of course.

Carly brothers also used him a lot.

He's in all of their.

He's in me, myself, and Irene.

He's in something about Mary.

He's a really tiny role.

He's really good in Hall Pass.

He plays a pickup artist in Hall Pass.

That sounds good.

I've never seen you.

I'm just Jenkins with like a fedora and like Ed Hardy shirts.

How many Cohens is he in?

He's in

Burn After Reading after this.

Oh, he's in Burn After Reading, right?

So three?

I think that's it.

That's his.

That's his year.

The Burn After Reading, Visitor.

Is that the same year as the Visitor?

Yeah.

Step Brothers.

Or all my year.

Step Brothers is obviously his peak and American acting's peak.

Yes.

Would you say?

Yeah.

I don't give a fuck.

You can use that anytime.

But it's all the fucking dinosaurs.

Well, obviously the dinosaur stuff at the end is amazing.

Which is entirely improvised.

Do you know that?

That Michael's is just like, just come up with something.

There's the moment where he starts doing the T-Rex arms and he looks down at them as if like remembering what he's lost.

Do you know what we're talking about, Ben?

I haven't seen the movie in a while, but.

He just tells the boys at the end, like, I also had dreams once.

I wanted to be a dinosaur.

That's crazy.

We're telling them to grow.

I do remember this.

He spends the whole movie being like, you have to be adults.

You have to get a job.

You have to give responsibility.

And at the end of the movie at the Catalina wine mixer, they're like both doing jobs and they're like talking about taxes with each other joylessly.

And he's just like, I can't believe I'm going to say this, but this is depressing.

You guys need to go back to doing what you were doing before.

And they were like, dad, we like like Roth IRAs.

Like, come on.

Like, and then he's just like, no, no.

And his big emotional speech about like not losing your flame is that when I was a child, I wanted to be a dinosaur.

And my parents told me, you can't do that.

And I gave up with my dreams.

And I thought someday I'd circle back to being a dinosaur.

And I never had the chance.

And then they just keep going, like, what do you mean?

Could you be a dinosaur?

And he's like, I was so good at it.

I put my arms at my side and I would roar.

And they're like, but you're a human.

You can never be a dinosaur.

And he's like, that's what I let them convince me.

Wow.

I mean, that's crazy that he improvised.

That's such a good choice.

Stephen is going to eat your dick.

Like Kobayashi.

I don't know.

Stepbrothers is still good, right?

That's not the problem with stepbrothers.

No, it's five stars.

The whole best Jenkins, apart from shut the fuck up, is that it?

Or when's it when John C.

Riley just does the long monologue about how Mary Steenberg is going to want to fuck him?

That's like the introduction to those characters.

So long.

From my chest cubes down to my ball throw.

And then I think he breaks a plate.

Anyway, Jenkins.

You know what, Rich Jenkinson?

What's up?

He's an if.

Just putting that up.

He's an if.

He's an if.

He plays a little wooden

version of himself.

He hasn't been in a movie,

excepting his voice role in if, since Nightmare Alley, which he's very good in.

And I don't know.

He's done like four shitty TVs.

He played like Jeffrey Dahmer's dad in the Jeffrey Dahmer thing.

Thank God.

A few.

And now he's in the Ed Brubaker

adaptation of Criminal, which I'm very excited for.

Ed Brubaker, friend of the show, inexplicably one of those people who's so important to David and I, who is now a listener and text with us.

Shout out Ed Brubaker.

But in whatever recent Cohen's episode, we were saying, where's Jenkins been?

And he's like.

He's crushing criminal.

Yeah.

Which is going to be on Amazon, I think.

I'm Prime Video.

But

let's get it.

I want him back.

I need more Jenkins in my life.

I'm waiting on that.

You know, he introduced Devine Troy Randolph at the Critic Circle the year she won, which was what, 2024?

When was that?

Three.

Three.

Three.

For holdovers, because they did some tiny movie together that no one ever saw.

Right.

You guys have talked about this on air.

I've heard you talk about this in another episode.

I've never heard of this.

This is the first.

Why did you guys talk about Richard Jenkins already?

Because he's a lot too.

The first Cohens he was in.

I have no idea why he's come up before.

I don't know.

He came up recently.

Whatever.

Nah, whatever.

Yeah.

So,

yeah, so all that.

Basically, what happens within

Miles, before he destroys

Marilyn in the courtroom, they go out to dinner.

Oh, just to, I'm sorry, to finish giving Richard Jenkins his flowers.

The thing that's so beautiful about that scene that all rests on Jenkins' shoulders is how quickly he goes from kind of like begrudgingly accepting the way that Clooney bites him down to at the end being so emotionally overcome with like, I'm going to take my briefcase and go home.

Like that Clooney's destroyed his spirits.

Right.

Yes.

But

Clooney asked Sada Jones out to dinner sort of as a kind of like

Again, extension of his boredom of like, maybe I just take her out to dinner.

Like if she's, you know,

it's such an ethical, what you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, legally is he allowed to do this.

I have that question, but who cares?

I do think there's like a little bit of like Ethan Hunt, Elsa Faust in this movie where it's just like they immediately lock eyes.

Game recognized game.

Yeah.

We're the only two people on the planet who operate at this level.

Yeah.

I mean, the way they order wine together is like a rat-at-tat dialogue thing is gorgeous.

So

their dinner scene is nice.

I, again, this is where I'm sorry, Catherine.

I think she's like good.

I wish someone was amazing in this role.

Okay, so can I take Clooney is elite in this role?

Can I get my take?

Yeah, what's your take?

After watching this movie, and is there a better, I was like, I really want to watch Lady Eve again.

Sure.

Because it's not like this is like a quiet remake of Lady Eve, but I do think it pulls a lot of things from Lady Eve.

Obviously, for fans who don't know the Lady Eve, it's one of the better movies ever made.

Yes.

Barbara Stanwick and Henry Fonda,

Pete Preston Surgis movies.

And it's

a movie about an elite con artist, Card Sharp, who multiple times romances the heir to an ale fortune.

There's a lot of difference between beer and ale.

And it's a similar movie where there's this kind of like she keeps running different cons on him based on who has the power in the situation.

And you're part of the mystery of the movie is like, when are there real feelings and when are they not?

And what's motivating what?

And when is it just about money and whatever.

But that movie is all basically told from her perspective even though you meet him first no he's the mark you're getting her doing the kind of ocean style here's what i'm going to do and you have the scenes where she's going back to her father and explaining what's changing in her mind so you're not sure if she's going to be able to pull it off but the fun is her outlining what her intentions or her plans are and how things get in the way in this movie the character is kind of a sphinx it's clearly what they're sort of enjoying is that you're watching the film and it has these gaps gaps where you're like, wait, what just happened?

Why did we just cut ahead six months?

Yeah, I mean, I guess.

And that you need to untangle it after the fact.

Only at the end do you realize everything she's done.

Right.

They're hiding the movie's biggest twist, which they want to hide because it's a twist of like when she reappears with Billy Bob Thornton.

Right.

That's we have not even brought up yet.

Right.

Well, we're going to get there.

Yes.

But

I guess that's what.

But I just, okay.

But I think it means that there's not that much she can play.

It's obvious to say, well, isn't the best version of this Julia Roberts?

Because you just imagine the whole movie having the liar Nathaniel

energy.

Very sassy.

Yeah, yeah.

You see this scene of them at the dinner table together and you imagine that scene in Ocean 7.

Which is just perfect.

Who are the big other kind of elite female stars who couldn't?

Not to conjure leatherheads again, but could Renee Zellweger have done it?

No.

No, you don't think so?

I don't think she's a good actor.

I mean,

and she's my big problem with Down with Love.

See, I love her and let Down with Love.

I do not.

Yeah, she couldn't have done that with, I guess.

She's going to have to pick one or the other.

But obviously, she and Clooney, right, they did try at

chemistry.

He's already done a Julia movie.

He's already done Michelle Pfeiffer.

Someone who could have done it.

She could have done it.

Yeah.

Who else is in that?

Michelle Pfeiffer makes sense.

She's like on the cusp of being a little aged out or whatever, but yes.

Callie Berry is huge at this point, but I don't think she would have worked in this role.

No.

Comedy not her strong suit.

But you're like, who's in goddess territory?

Is an adult woman?

Like, it can't be a girl.

Right.

It can't be like Scarlett Johansson or whoever the new stars are.

Like, you know.

Yeah, I don't know.

I, I, you know, sure, Julia.

I mean, I, see, I'm just saying, like, if you cast Julia in this, and they obviously have such good chemistry and they're biting back and forth at each other.

I still don't know if Julia makes this part explode because part of this role in construction is you don't know what's going on with that.

You're not seeing the heart, the hand she's holding until the the very end.

Julianne Moore.

Julianne Moore could have been excellent.

She could kind of do everything, right?

She could have been excellent.

She does her own divorce lawyer rom-com.

Cause of attraction, not exactly.

Wow.

An endorsement of any for doing comedy, right?

I just had the thought while watching this movie, and you miss the fun of the surprise of the complete unraveling at the end and realizing what you didn't realize you've been watching the whole time.

Seeing really Bob Thornton on the soap opera is like a key delight that you don't get if you know what's going on.

The Julia Duffy scenes, which I agree with you are kind of the broadest and the least interesting parts of the movie, instead had more of a sense of who is this character, what is animating her,

her planning, and it felt like the movie was more of a tennis match and less.

We're seeing it all from Cooney's perspective and she's unknowable.

I think there's a certain degree to which this part, as written, couldn't be played better than it is.

Maybe you're right.

Because the meat of the role is actually not depicted on screen.

Yeah.

And it is supposed to be like, right, you're this beautiful, Sphinx-like woman, and she's totally good at that.

And so my suggestion of.

What about Holly Hunter?

Cohen's collaborator.

She's older than Clooney by three years.

Probably.

Wouldn't she work as the like, the like gliding.

No, but she is.

All right, the one I was going to throw out.

And they're great and oh, brother together.

They have

to bring them back.

This is the other thing.

You're like, who hasn't key worked with, right?

Already at this point.

He tends to be a little bit more.

He's done Peacemaker with Kidman.

There's a universe in which Kidman could have done that.

that.

Kidman absolutely could have done this.

This is an era where she could have done something like this.

Stephered Wives is around this time or whatever.

This would have been a much better choice than Stephered Wives.

But he's basically worked with all the A-listers in his age group.

Yeah.

Did he?

Sandra Bullock could have done it?

Yes.

He doesn't do that until gravity.

Yeah.

She could have.

This is like...

She's still a big star.

Yeah, originality isn't too far away from this.

But it's definitely because by the time she was in Crash, which is a couple years later, you were kind of like, oh, Sandy Bullock.

Well, and then she disappears again into the blind side.

Uh-huh.

The other one I was going to throw out is Charlize.

I think she could have done it.

She wasn't doing comedies then.

No, this is the year she does Monster.

Yeah.

She's not really a proven actor yet.

So she's not big enough yet to hold her own against Clooney.

I don't think so.

Yeah, that's fair.

Did Clooney ever worked with Winslet?

Did he?

I'm looking at like best actress.

I don't know if

he ever did.

I don't know if Winslet would have worked in this.

Yeah.

Cameron Diaz.

No.

I'm not finding an obvious, like,

you know.

Uma.

Yeah, Uma's.

Look, this is the Killbill year.

Yeah.

Uma's a little in the wilderness, too.

Killbill kind of, you know, is her first big hit in a long time.

How is Uma a comedy like this, though?

Like fast.

Uma's a weird one.

That's not her.

Ben just said solely Uma and then pulled the mic back away.

It's like, that's it.

Mike dropped.

I mean, Blanchett's the one I think could have been interesting, but

no one would have famous.

I don't have considered her in this.

Yeah, she's really in the wilderness in this period right like pre-Avoider how dare you the missing well doesn't she she like breaks out with Elizabeth and then makes like she makes terrible movies

she's it up I'm obsessed with her prestige run post Elizabeth pre-Oscar yes where it's truly like you know, a relief pitcher coming in and throwing like eight wild pitches or whatever.

And then suddenly, like, you know, we're like, oh, okay, she got it.

She got the Oscar.

And then after that, she was on the straight and narrow.

In this same period, Kate Winslet, like two out of every three movies she makes are nothing, and yet none of them stick to her.

Yeah, she was kind of onward.

It's like, we all love Winslet.

Was she had like three Oscar nominations back to her?

She would just occasionally, you know, do even an Iris, and that would be enough to be like, yeah, we still love Kate Winslet if she shows up.

And so, yes, nobody thought about the lives of David Gale or the hideous kinkies.

Just to just name some movies.

Starring and Titanic probably gets you there, too.

I don't think Kate Blanche never made anything else.

It's kind of this film that had lingered in the consciousness.

I wonder why.

Yep.

Anyway, so he annihilates her in court.

So the next sequence is, right, is well, hang on.

There is the scene where they go to the diner with Cedric the Entertainer and Paul Epstein orders Babyfield Greens and the waitress, another perfect Middle Age woman, what did you just call me?

What the fuck up?

What the fuck color would it be?

And Clevi orders like an overcooked steak with branch dressing or something.

Right.

Can I get a green style?

And she goes, What other color would it be?

Babyfield Greens.

Who's that?

That's like if round is funny.

Like, that's this perfect Cohen's service worker comedy.

Like, every line in this movie is funny.

It's just like a little kind of like jewelry box.

Can I say, and I don't know if you guys agree with this, I didn't announce this yet, but I do think

the first half is better than the second half.

I do think it doesn't run out of steam exactly, but the first half where the stakes are so defined and Clooney is so on fire and the courtroom scenes are so fun, whereas the second half where it's a little heavier on the plot twists and the kind of like I love the Vegas stuff so much.

I do too.

It's funny.

I'm not mad at it.

I'm just saying, like, yeah, I just, okay, so this was another reason I re-watched Lady Eve last night.

Is like Lady Eve is ostensibly a three-act movie.

Yeah, but I mean, you're talking about one of the best movies ever.

I know, I know, but I was just like, there's a similar thing going on that's very unorthodox in the year that this movie is coming out, right?

Lady Eve is like a three-act movie if you actually look at the story, but act one is like 50 minutes long, right?

Act two is like 20 minutes long.

And act three is like 10 minutes long.

And I think that was a thing back in the screwball era where they were just like this kind of diagrammatic,

you need to build your three acts and each one needs to be half an hour.

Right.

And it needs to be like this clean.

They were sort of like, everything is as long as it can justify being while still being entertaining.

And if the boring part of the movie needs to like get, you need to get through that faster, then you get through it faster.

Or if something more interesting can happen, then there's four acts.

Like who cares, right?

Right.

The first 45 minutes of this movie is the dissolution of the marriage to Edward Herman.

Right, is the right almost half of the film is basically act one.

Um, and so then it's a movie where the acts speed up as they go along.

Yeah, because Billy Bub Thornton shows up, you're like, oh, this is the rest of the movie, and it's like, not really, he's kind of in and out very quickly.

Yeah, that feels, again, sort of like Jenkins of them being like, we just worked with this guy, we loved him, he's so funny for one second in this.

It's like a 20-minute act two.

Yeah, right.

But to conclude act one is he he nails her ass with the bins, heinz, the Heinz the Baron, uh, the Baron Kraus Bonespi, who, after he sets her up by having her cry about how much she loves Rex Rex Roth,

uh, brings in this guy and is basically the guy who's like, I found her a rich, stupid husband.

He's the Tenzig Norge.

Silly man, the Tenzig Norge.

Yeah, just anytime they come up with a good combination of sounds that you can repeat six times, and we should just ask: does anyone have any bones in the house here?

Oh, they want

the milk bone, the chili, the crunchy, for the teeth.

May we, there are no maybes now.

May we, but of course.

See, I think he's funny, but I think stuff is funnier later, like than the Baron.

Like, he's not, he's broader

stuff than like Wee Kirk of the Hills or whatever in Vegas.

I'm really into like Lumiere from Beauty and the Beast being in any movie.

Like, I just like that kind of with a tiny dog, ideally.

Oh, so so you love monuments, man.

Does it have Jerry Orbach?

I'm a legend.

Oh, Duchardin.

Yeah.

Beat Clooney for that Descendants, Oscar.

And that was their

makeup.

Yeah.

The crazy thing is that he, who did he, there's a crazy one he beat in there.

Brad Pitt and Jesus.

Oh, yeah.

That's right.

That's true.

Yeah.

Anyway,

so

then

he annihilates Marilyn.

And then, as we, as you say, it's like six months later.

Yeah.

Right.

And it's sort of like he's back to

being a nobody.

I mean, back to being.

You end that sequence with her with Julia Duffy and her like girl gang saying, like, next time, I gotta, I gotta find a better husband

without

a Klaus, without a Baron Heinz fan.

Yeah, SB.

Yeah.

Right.

She also finds Jeffrey Rush.

She has the one scene in the middle.

She's finds him in an alley.

She finds him in the alley clutching his trophy.

Yes.

but basically you see her call the shot of like i'm gonna do it again i'm gonna do it better and i'm not gonna have a tenz ignorge that he can use to take me down and you because she's sort of activated by like this guy caught me right i need to now get the next point on him right she thought she had the perfect murder she didn't so you assume what she's done is this oil baron who's so stupid

uh and she like gets the prenup signed with massey and massey's like okay what's she up to and then he emotionally tears up the prenup at their ceremony.

Right.

And Massey's like,

that's what he gets with the barbecue sauce.

Right.

He eats it.

The confidence game of she hired me.

Right.

Right.

She respects me.

The prenup.

Right.

I know what she's after.

This guy's money.

And yet she's hiring me to do everything.

You think it's your idea to get rid of the prenup, right?

But of course, the twist is this is all stage, but

he's so depressed at the wedding.

He sees Billy Bob eat the prenup

he's just like she's a genius that's the moment where i think he truly falls in love with her where it goes from being a lust well to like this is the only other genius on this planet well and when he realizes the thing with the prenup and he says to her the line like now that this marriage is winding down while she's standing in her wedding dress it's just right right it is because he's like mission accomplished you got what you want exactly you could divorce him tomorrow yep right yeah uh somewhere in there before that is where we first meet the like senior partner who has the living without intestines magazine in his waiting room like very hot sucker proxy.

It's also a gag that it feels like gets repeated in Serious Man.

Yes.

And it's another gag that anytime I showed this to a girlfriend, they would further back up in the couch somehow.

Yes.

I'd be like, I feel like you're paying even less attention.

They're like, yeah, well, that scene

really works.

The people I remember who were Cohen's fans at the time were like, the movie sucks.

It doesn't feel like them, except for there's this old guy and there's this thing with his assassin.

I mean, those things are obviously very, very, everyone told me those are the only two things that feel like them.

Yes, Weezy Joe is definitely right out of raising Arizona.

Yes.

Talking about the inherent darkness, Katie, in this movie, where it's so surprising that all these different people attach themselves to it and we're like lusting after this script, the Coans are latching onto like an honest cynicism within this story, right?

You could imagine the original version of this script and other versions that people directed being much frothier and having a sort of like, they both make each other good people kind of ending.

And this movie is based on the cynicism of how we've basically set up an industry of marriage, right?

That like marriage has like morphed from being this like property merger thing to ostensibly being a modern thing based on love, but also we're all kind of quietly ignoring the fact that the big concern is always the money at the center of the thing.

Yeah.

And that there are people who become fucking millionaires many, many times over at being able to explode marriages or protect marriages or whatever it is.

Yeah.

That all of this is so callous and this notion of a prenup and immediately, like at the beginning of your marriage being like, and by the way, I don't trust you.

Exactly.

Right.

Well, it made me wonder, because like Joel Cohen's obviously been very happily married for a long time.

Like, was Ethan going through any divorces in this period?

Like, isn't he divorced once very young before he met Francis?

Joel and Ethan have both been married to the same people for decades now.

Ethan's marriage seems interesting.

I would say both have very interesting marriages.

Yes.

They both seem to have interesting marriages.

And

they seem very content in their interest.

Exactly.

In their own ways, they are both major wife guys.

But there's the Joel divorce that he kind of never talks about.

And it does feel like the early days.

Really pre-blood simple.

Yes.

I mean, Joe Cohen obviously is always doing People Magazine spreads.

And he just won't touch that one topic.

It's like Joel Cohen doesn't talk about his personal life at all.

I'm hearing a rumor that he is going to announce his new era soon.

He's going to keep going a new height on his new girlfriend's podcast.

Imagine.

Imagine if

Francis McDohn had a podcast.

no kidding me so taylor swift dumped type tyler kelcey whatever his name is traffic travis kelsey sorry uh and you know who he is i'm not trying to be a sports ball guy over here and was like i've got a new boyfriend joel cohen and she hooked up with joel cohen yeah that would be a great issue would she finally make her movie in that case like she's in hollywood now four years ago everything was pointing towards serious cinephile taylor swift and then we just took a hard left turn to the nfl well she also took a broken tump the mcdorman Cohen marriage.

She also took a hard left turn to doing like a two-year tour that was like the most successful music tour in the history of sung work.

Searchlights just saying like, hey, Taylor, where's the deal?

We signed four years.

I was going to say you're ready.

The most successful thing in the history of the economy.

It was just right.

Exactly.

It was like a country onto itself.

It was crazy.

You look at the stats from the Eros tour, and it's like every city she went to for that.

week had the kind of economy boost that is usually reserved for the Olympics.

Oh, yeah.

My mom and sister went to Indianapolis and there was like a thing in the airport greeting the people who were there for Taylor Swift.

It was bananas.

And you're like, oh, the one week she was in Indianapolis.

Yeah, it was bigger than the Colts, probably.

The city went up $2 billion.

Yep.

Yeah.

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You have in the in the hotel hallway after the wedding where Clooney basically like monologues to Catherine Zeta Jones of like, aren't you in love with me?

Right.

Right.

It all happens.

We're the two stars of this movie.

Can we like get over and and admit it?

And he kisses her and she kisses back and then basically has no reaction, walks away.

He does the you fascinate me.

Fascinating me.

And this is like six months after the bit about both wedding.

Like we've gotten.

But like, right, but it's like he's operating on the premise of she is divorced and about to collect more money than even I have.

Yes.

And

it's a con.

I mean, what we're looking just to spoil the movie, like she's conning him.

She has arranged it so that he will marry her in Vegas while he's at his convention.

Oh, I'm sorry.

The kiss in the hallway happens after she brings Billy Bob to him.

Yes, it's after.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

The introduction of Billy Bob.

That's in his office.

This is well before Vegas.

Right.

He's like, let's cut through this shit, right?

Post-the marriage.

And yes, and then Vegas Convention of Divorce Lawyers.

Right.

She shows up looking like a trillion dollars with a big dog.

And he's immediately kind of like goo-goo-eyed at the idea that she's worth more than he is now.

Yes.

And this is where the big like power shift happens: is

she gets a call that Julia Duffy had died.

Right.

Well, that's after they go to that dinner, which is so lovely and like sad, where they're both like realizing they're not happy with what they've gotten.

But she's faking it.

But she's faking it at the time.

She feels very sincere.

Does where they're both like, right?

We, there's nothing left for us in the field except for love.

We've

achieved everything else.

Exactly.

Exactly.

There's nothing left.

Right.

And then she gets this call and she's like, my friend.

She had all this money.

She had all these divorces.

She died from, you know, recovery of another the perforated ulcer.

Well, because she, yeah, she couldn't take the medicine for the ulcer because of plastic surgery, right?

And she's like, and she didn't have anybody, yeah.

And Clooney's like, We have to get married right now.

It's a thing I love that they have not slept together, but it is this kind of thing, it's a fairly chaste movie.

Well, I was gonna say, it's like post-code movies where they have to sort of skip over the implication that the characters have ever

slept together.

And I guess in some ways, it's a more traditional, you might just say, like, I like your look.

Will you please take my hand?

Yeah, they gotta go get married so they can finally kiss on the bed.

But he's basically, he just makes like a logical plea to her of, like, shouldn't we just be together?

Let's just get this over with.

I'll give you the massy prenup.

Yep.

Right?

I'm so in this for love that I want you to know that I'm not after your money.

Right.

They go to the little trap and then they get married and she does.

The week of the heather.

She does incredible.

She does the

tearing up the prenup thing three times in this movie.

In their marital books.

And the first few times it's fake.

The third time it's real.

Yeah.

But right.

I mean, obviously, this is all a long con.

She is taking his money by marrying him.

She was never married to Doyle, who's a soap opera actor.

Yes.

And

you're right about the Lady Eve thing, where it's like, right, that second act is brief and it's at Vegas.

crowning moment you mentioned in your letterbox review is his speech yes his kind of greed is good speech where he's like love is good yeah this is act three.

Second act is Billy Bob, which is really short.

Yes.

No, this is act two.

Oh.

Act three to me is after they get married.

Is Weezy Joe?

And then is

no, you're right.

You're right.

You're right.

I forgot about the whole Weezy Joe.

And then, so, but then, right, that's what I'm saying.

We leap to Massey is ruined.

Yes.

Marilyn has all his money.

Speaking at the No Man Convention, he has what would be your big triumphant third act.

The character has seen the light.

But that's in the second act of

the monologue.

Right.

Saying, like, I think what we're doing is bad, and actually, love is important.

And they give him the slow clap.

And do they lift him on shoulders?

Or is that just the implication?

He's conquering hero.

Yeah.

And then he immediately clocks Billy Bob on the TV.

Apparently, with Bruce Campbell, is there, which I did not clock, but I saw that on Wikipedia.

Just to clarify, he signs the prenup because he believes that Billy Bob has given her the money.

She has his wealth, but she has no wealth at all.

Right.

And instead, like by ripping up the prenup, he's in the bad position.

Now he's and so he gave her the prenup to protect her to say to her, I love you not for your money.

So he thinks that her ripping up the prenup is her saying, I love you so much.

I want you to share my money.

And reality, he's giving her access to his money.

She's not going to be a motherfucker.

I just know.

I'm just so confused at this point.

And it took me until the end to actually understand what was fucking.

It's another thing with this movie of like, as I was saying, it is a movie and most comedies are not structured like this.

Like a thriller heist movie where you don't know until the end what's been going on the whole time.

I've now seen this like four or five times.

And even still every time while I'm watching it, I'm trying to remember exactly where it's going.

But in the third act, like now Clooney is ruined.

Marilyn has his money.

Cluny has his house.

She has his house.

Clooney's partner, you know, the old guy Herb is like, you have to kill her to protect the reputation of the firm.

And Clooney's having nightmares about like this guy who previously had said like, you're the best of us, you're the future.

Now he's having nightmares basically about becoming that guy.

Hire Weezy Joe.

Or I guess the nightmare is what gets him to propose to say.

Played by the great Irwin Keys, who's just one of those faces.

I mean, a bajillion fucking movie.

Born to be in a Cohen movie.

Big school.

Yes.

It's pretty funny to ask him, are you Wheezy Joe?

While he's wheezing.

Yeah.

Whose bit, of course, is that he has an inhaler.

Also, he and Paul Adelsein get a lot of those like

raising every single screams at each other where they just turn and shriek on top of their mouth.

They're really good at it.

It's funny.

It's

it's um

Paul Adelstein went right from this because it was like he was just emerging Paul Adelstein, right?

Like prison break is right around this time.

Right.

He does prison break and private practice.

He does like three TV shows in a row.

And like in Prison Break, he was like a hard-boiled asshole.

It's like, he's such a good goof, and I feel like he didn't get to do enough goof.

Yeah.

He usually plays in movies like a guy wearing an FBI jacket who's like, it looks like he went that way.

Yeah, you watch this and you assume he's like a comedy UCB guy or something.

He's so fucking funny.

It feels like he got caught in a very, very lucrative detour.

I mean,

I guess he did TV stuff.

That's right.

Network procedural stuff.

But anyway, he's but yes, but the final gag is they hire Weezy Joe to kill her.

And before he gets to her, they realize she's rich because Rex Rex Roth has left her his fortune.

He did not, he never updated his will.

He died

in a train orgy.

Yes.

He's got a big bed in front of him.

He's got a code movies where it's like, right, he's jumping on a big bed with a bunch of ladies in kind of like fancy old-fashioned conjunction function hats

in front of a big train.

Oh, yeah.

There's like a train coming into the station.

It's an orgy, but like

this movie is an orgy.

It felt like the sell-on this this movie was trying to be, here you go, the two sexiest adults in Hollywood being sexy.

Well, that's how the Cohens are about sex, though, right?

Like, is there any movie where there's like real, like, genuine sex scene?

What's the one we were saying?

I mean, it's what?

I mean, of course, the hottest sex scene, I hear Bills, when Buscemi's getting ridden in Fargo.

The parallel.

Yes.

I hear bells.

Yeah.

Yeah, sex and Cohen.

They've had their sex in their movies.

Many episodes ahead, but it's what's so bracing about driveway adults.

Oh, goodness.

is you're like oh my goodness ethan's been holding this back all this time

colin movies either cut away fade out before the sex starts and fade back in the next morning right like this film does yeah or make it ridiculous or it's like it's it's cuckolding

or it's kind of like comedic banality yeah it is like this is depressing

yeah

um

so uh so they have to stop weezy joe from murdering her because now she's richer than him.

So he will now benefit from the divorce.

And of course, Weezy Joe accidentally inhales his own pistol and dies in an iconic Coon Brothers goofy criminal moment that I do feel like is the one thing I've ever seen.

Everyone gave them a job.

Well, it's also that violence, like the sudden, shocking bit of blood that like this movie really lacks.

There's no violence in it other than that, really.

You watch that, I mean, he does like get shot.

You see the fucking bullet wound.

There is a lack of blood.

You feel in a way where it's like, right, this is a PG-13 universal Imagine Entertainment movie.

Yeah.

It costs $60 million.

But it's also as surprising as Brad Pitt in the Closet and Burn After Reading or something, right?

That's like bloodier.

And that's heartbreaking at some point.

Well, it's also Brad Pitt.

So it's so shocking when that happens.

Whereas Weezy Joe,

kind of feel like they're teeing him on.

I mean, Wheezy Joe is a studio would probably be like, we're introducing this guy like 100 minutes into a 100-minute movie, right?

Like, he's a big swing.

He wasn't made to be long for this world, We C Joe.

Like, you could combine him with

Cedric the Entertainer, maybe.

Right.

He's like a final destination setup where you're like, gun and inhaler, got it.

I know how this is ultimately going to end.

I'm just waiting to see the joy of how they finally like it.

Basically, yeah.

Yeah.

And the epilogue is: okay, time to do the divorce.

We're back at the table.

We're back with um

Jenkins, Jenkins, and uh, they finally are like, Maybe we are in love, right?

Tear up the prenup, you're exposed.

Like, it's like the final tears.

Jenkins is furious where he's like, she hired someone to murder you,

and then he runs off with the briefcase, and Alison's like, That's not fair, and chases after him.

Lady Eve has a similar thing where, like, the guy is so hurt by being conned the first time, he needs to be conned a second time to forgive her.

You know, like they have to go so far beyond the pale to work past their problems.

Yeah, well, they've gone through all this effort to con each other, so maybe they are just they deserve each other.

It's also like that's how they know that the other one cares.

I guess

I guess, your point, re-rush.

We probably don't need the America's Funniest Divorce videos, Coda.

I mean, I like Gus getting his little star.

Yeah, you want, you want him back one more time, but I.

He says, right, how did you find the actor?

He said, I found this.

Protestants.

Yes.

But I don't know if we need that.

I mean, we could probably buy it.

Find it, tidy, specific dated in a way.

And like, not that this movie is trying to feel timeless, but you do get to that.

You're like, I don't know if I need because I feel like that scene in the law in the office is so perfect.

Like, that's the note that you want to end.

It's probably the note that a real Preston Surges movie would end on, as opposed to the

tactician.

You want an ass nailed?

Gonna nail that ass.

I do think you watch a lot of like Lubitch

and Sturgis in particular, and the final beat of the movie will often be some loop closing with a supporting character.

They end with like, here's the perfect, like romantic, like,

that's right, positively the same.

Or the three guys opening the restaurant at the end of Ninochka or stuff.

Yeah.

It does feel very classical to be like,

we don't put game pieces on the board unless they will ultimately get their final payment.

Well, and there's the bit about Jeffrey Rush where it's like, that show will be yours someday.

So, like, to have Catherine Sidden-Jones has now ownership of the game show, like, yeah, I don't really know how that's a transfer to property, but it does feel like a callback to that, too.

Right.

And the idea that she has something of her own that's now his and whatever.

Oh, well, it's the thing that they do together, right?

Does he say, like, what are we going to do now?

And she's like, I have an idea.

And then it's such a entertainer on TV show.

It's interesting.

Did JJ have anything more about the budget?

I mean, I do think a lot of this was some development costs, but also.

JJ Louis fired, of course, because he didn't sign the massem.

We're going to nail this.

We are going to nail this.

No, I mean, the budget is not really.

There was just so little reporting on this movie because it was kind of there and gone.

Clooney has always said that he thinks there are less than five times in his career where he actually got his full quote.

Right.

Because he is a guy who likes to be like, I wanted to do the.

He just didn't do a lot of paychecks.

I want to do the descendants.

I'll do deferred salary, you know?

I feel like this is one of the cases where he probably got full quote.

Maybe he did.

And maybe, like, I think this is probably more than the Cohens were ever paid upfront to direct a movie.

I'm guessing.

So everyone just got paid a lot.

That's my thing.

And I'm like, I bet

Craft Services was much better on this film than it was in the Cohen Brothers film.

Sure.

You know, they talk about how they prep so meticulously to be able to keep costs down, to have worked everything out so far in advance that they don't have to go searching on the day.

And I just think that's them working around a lot of

the second there's a certain price tag on your head, people start asking questions and they start breathing down your neck and there's pressure.

Even if you're people who are able to retain final cut in a movie like this, they just don't want that pressure on them, right?

And this is just, I think everyone was more comfortable.

People probably had better trailers.

I think fucking

Grazer and Ron Howard both were probably paid like a million dollars to produce this, even though Ethan was the main producer, you know?

Like, I think this is just a movie where everyone got their full salary, where everyone was treated nicely.

It doesn't feel like they made it any differently, but you do watch this and you're like, holy shit, burn after reading costs $20 million?

It's crazy that's a good thing.

And this costs cheaper.

True Grit's like $40 or $50.

Wild.

You know, like, they're just so good at just like, don't waste money on things that aren't on screen.

And also, big stars want to work with them and they will ultimately benefit.

when the movie is profitable, which almost all other movies are because the bar is so low.

You think this one's eventually made its money back?

It made 80 worldwide.

Wow.

Yeah, let me look up the numbers.

I do think 30 domestic fits.

I had Seth Rogan on the show recently to discuss the Big Lebasky.

The episodes already aired.

And he put it, which correctly, which it made 120 worldwide.

It made 35 domestic.

It made 120 worldwide?

So it made 80 overseas?

So that movie stars, man.

And it's like, but as he said, as he put it, and he's right, he's like, at this time, every movie made $40 million on DVD.

Yeah.

Even bad ones.

That's the bad.

But maybe they made more.

Everything would just make so much money on DVD.

And especially comedies.

Anyway, the film came out October 10th.

But I do think it spooks them a little bit.

It is weird.

Even though no one's losing their shirt on it, I think it's perceived as a miss.

I'm sure it spooked them as much as the Cohens are spookable.

I don't know how much they do seem quite.

self-assured, obviously.

And yet they followed up

a very similar move.

It's another movie they were originally just hired to write that they decide to take over and direct with a huge movie star.

Yeah.

And it's a studio project that's being pushed as a conventional mainstream comedy, or at least trying to sell it that way.

You've already recorded Lady Killer's episode.

And I did not, I've seen it once.

You know,

I mean, I will, I will spoil here.

I just contend that they have never made a movie with a failing grade.

I'd say that's the one that's on the cusp.

Close.

That's the one I give a failure.

I'm like, I give it like a fucking C plus, B minus.

Yep.

Ben, did you like Intolerable Cruelty?

I haven't realized I haven't really gotten the, and I was getting this sense.

You've been quiet.

I was getting this sense.

You had a hard time following.

I

laughed at some moments.

I

found

the characters quite despicable

in a way

that made it hard for me to want to follow them along.

It's a very ascetic movie with no one to root for.

Yep.

But then it it makes you believe in love at the end anyway.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And there's something about the crassness, and I understand it's arch.

It's arch, but arch as hell.

It just.

Then you're a sincere fella.

Yeah.

I struggled with it a little bit.

Like, I will say I had to pause at one point because I got

so frustrated.

Like the moment when Clooney, they get married.

I was like, I got to walk away from this.

I'm so annoyed.

I also think so much of the movie is misdirecting the audience that you kind of need to see it twice to have seen it once

which is another thing of like people seeing in theaters at the time and never revisiting it yeah yeah and i bet that that's a symptom of me always you know knowing that if i were put in this situation that it would work out of course and so seeing him up so

i gotta get out of here but i can't even deal with this ben to david's point of view being a sincere fella and someone who loves love yeah unlike bag of money movies I think you can't even place yourself in the characters' heads in this.

Yeah, you don't play around with that shit.

Heinz, the Baron Cross, funny.

They are engaging in intolerable cruelty towards each other, which you don't fuck with.

Number one.

Hang on, hang on.

Can I say one more thing about the tone of this?

I know, David.

I also have to leave.

But it's like, I feel like if you have to leave, that's why

if this had come out with Burn After Reading, like post-no country, put those two movies together.

I think they go really hand in hand.

But I do think Burn After Readings,

that tone directed at DC as opposed to like divorce lawyers and love, like is a little bit better aimed.

Like it makes more sense to be cynical about that than I vastly prefer this movie to be

the dislikes burn, although we will see how the rewatch goes.

We will.

It's not like I think Burn is like a bad movie.

Like it's well made.

It's got a lot of great stuff.

But like I, that is the one time where I kind of had the Ben reaction.

And on every re-watch I re-watch, I have the Ben.

I'm like, too mean.

I kind of hate everybody.

I'm, I, you know, feels like an exercise.

I agree with you, Katie.

Katie.

And as I love to remind people, Burn After Reading is weirdly their third highest grossing film.

I love to remind people of that, but I don't care about that.

But I'm just saying it did cross over in a way that, to Katie's point,

I do think it was more palatable.

Like the acidity in that movie is like, we all hate these guys.

This movie is based around people who are kind of like annoying and arrogant.

but we can all find common enemies in them.

Yeah, and you want to

control the level of power.

Yeah.

And also just like the the post-no-country thing, people were like ready to seed it on its level as opposed to this period where it was a little bit weird.

It wasn't just Clooney, it was Clooney and Pitt.

But I think that movie has targets that are acceptable.

There's also something to like grimy scumbags versus these are like rich, awful people.

You haven't seen Burn After Reading it.

They're rich people.

I have.

Okay.

I have, but I just think that movie has a really goofy tone.

I just remember really enjoying it.

But they are rich people.

Yeah.

I like this kind of because it's like the rich people aren't happy even when they're not being mean.

You know,

it gets it.

That's what I like.

October 10th, 2003.

A bad time to release this movie, in my opinion.

I already said it's opening number four at the box office to $12.5 million, which is just straight up bad for your George Clooney PG-13 rom-com.

Like, come on.

Yeah.

Now, number one at the box office,

making $22 million.

So, again, I don't know why they opened this against this.

Yeah.

Is an Oturis masterpiece that is...

Is it Killbill?

It's Killbill Volume 1.

Yeah.

Which is like one of the greatest experiences I ever had in a movie theater.

It's another reason I think I didn't see this in theaters because I was seeing Killbill three times, yeah, you know, like I was just all the Cohen's people you were talking about who didn't want to see it, they were busy.

It just felt triumphant.

The guy's back, and this thing is like a fucking thrill ride.

What kind of crazy you know, studio is like, Yeah, let's open the new Coens against the new Tarantino literature

anyway.

So, that's number one.

Number two is, I would call a big sleeper hit of the season.

Okay.

It was number one last week.

It's going to make $81 million.

It's making $15 million in its second week.

It had very good legs.

So was September 2003?

Yeah, I guess so.

Yeah.

Late September.

Like a charming comedy with a movie star.

It's kind of his movie star breakout.

It's kind of his movie star breakout.

And I was thinking it was a race for.

And you think it's true?

It's a great movie.

It is a, I think, at this point, a canonical classic.

It's a canonical classic 2003 september it's his breakout kind of i mean he's already a big star i get or he's he's becoming a big star right now he's he's been a big kind of supporting actor guy for a few years and now pacifier doesn't come out until 2004.

we're not talking about the pacifier he said big star so it has to be venties

what would you say is the main genre of this star com uh comedy comedy comedy star yeah it's a big comedy star is it will farrell nope it's No, because Elf is a little later.

It's the same year.

Yeah.

Christmas time.

And it's not a Stiller, and it's not Nolan Wilson.

And it's not a Vince Vaughan.

And it's School of Rock.

It is School of Rock, a wonderful Richard Linklater movie,

which, right, it's that thing of like,

it's a mainstream family comedy.

that's made by Richard Linklater and feels like it was made by him.

It is what I think everyone hoped Intolerable Cruelty would be.

Sure.

And there's this feeling.

Actual crossover appeal beyond just art movies.

Jim Jacks, who our buddy Kevin Smith talked about a lot on the podcast, was the guy who originally got the Intolerable Cruelty script and set it up at Universal in the early 90s.

And his big thing was find these Sundance guys

who have, you can see the gem of a commercial movie within them and protect them enough to let them make it their way.

And that was like dazed and confused.

And at the time, it was like, one of these days, Link Later is going to figure out how to make a movie that cracks the mainstream.

And there was that similar feeling with the Cohens.

Yeah.

Number three at the box office, new this week, is the movie that I'm sure an angry phone call or two were made about not even opening above this.

Okay.

Right.

You know, it's like, I'm sure some agents got chewed out.

Some assistants got yelled at.

It's a

family comedy.

It's a family comedy.

It's heavy on animal.

Is it Good Boy?

It is the film Good Boy.

Yeah.

What is it?

Which stars dogs.

It's a Jim Henson production.

Ostensibly, I think Molly Shannon is first filled in this one.

Leonard Aiken is the kid actor.

Yes, but I think you're right.

Molly Shannon's the mom, and it's like dogs are actually aliens.

Matthew Broderick is an alien.

I'm an alien dog.

Matthew Broderick's an alien dog.

So the dogs, the dogs talk.

Yeah, Ben.

Matthew Broderick,

Britney Murphy, Carl Reiner.

Yeah, these are all the dogs.

Sounds like people?

Cheech Marin doing.

But I think it's basically like dogs are from Mars.

I mean, this is one of those movies that has like been banned from existence by like congressional actors.

I have never

intolerable cruelty opening below.

Good boy.

Number five of the box office.

Polly Shane was top build, but top build is a dog.

Like it was a movie that was sold.

Top Build is like eight dogs.

Like you're just like ninth build.

Yeah.

And they're beating two of the biggest movie stars of the moment.

Number nine of the box off the box office is a movie star thriller.

Okay.

I would say it is a lesser entry in his oeuvre, although it is a he's working with a director he made a great movie with

before.

Is it a fuqua?

No.

It's like a Denzel Foucault.

So it is a Denzel.

It's a Tony Scott.

Denzel Washington.

Nope.

Not Tony Scott.

He only worked with this guy twice.

Okay.

He's a great filmmaker.

I believe he's directed you, Griffin.

Oh, this is Out of Time?

It is Out of Time, directed by who?

Carl Franklin.

The great Carl Franklin, who, of course, made One False Move and Devil in a Blue Dress, which are amazing.

And of course, One True Thing, which is solid.

One episode of Vinyl.

One episode of Vinyl, which I assume was good.

Yeah, what I liked about him, he whispered all his direction.

That's cool.

Is that a good vibe?

It just felt very intimate.

Like he'd go up to someone and just really hand on shoulder.

Out of the I don't want to announce things in front of everybody.

That would be in the note to just you.

Right.

Right.

It's a Denzel mode that I love, which is Denzel as a sloppy, fucked up mess, right?

Like rather than Denzel as the cool professional or whatever, like it is a

sweaty Miami or it's a Florida Keys thriller about like a cop who's like, he's the chief of police, but like scandals are piling up.

Yes.

Eva Mendes is there.

Here is my story about this movie is that.

Dean Kane, a great patriot.

I texted you about this movie because I was at a trampoline park that was playing, I guess, a Denzel, it was had TNT on.

And I saw the final, I was like, what is this movie where Denzel is like sweaty and kind of a bad guy and holding a gun?

And immediately after that, they started playing Malcolm X, which was just playing in the background in a trampoline park, which was quite a sight.

I do remember that as well.

Does Denzel own a trampoline park?

Does he own Urban Air?

He's probably making a lot of money off of it.

It's not an amazing movie, but it's all right.

Nets number five of the Boxet Office.

Number six of the Boxet Office is new this week is House of the Dead, the video game adaptation that Clooney did have the temerity to beat that one.

Uve Bol.

That's the beginning of the Uve Bol video game dynasty.

We've also got the rundown, the early Dwayne Johnson

action, pretty good movie in my Peter Berg movie, right?

Yeah, it's if it's like fun.

It feels like there's an alternate history where you're like, if that movie was a bigger hit at the time, the entire Dwayne Johnson trajectory would have been very different.

I don't think the interview has gone up yet, but I interviewed Benny Safdie for Smashing Machine, and he calls him DJ.

Okay.

And that was very interesting to me.

I was like, oh, is that how we refer to him?

Because I still don't really know, you know, like when I'm interviewing someone like, so what did Dwayne do?

What did Rock do?

What are we calling him?

And he calls him DJ.

Number eight at the box office, under the Tuscan Sun,

a masterpiece, C plus masterpiece.

Yeah.

Number nine, Secondhand Lions.

Never seen that one.

That's the Haley Joel post-Oscar.

Michael Kane, Robert Duvall.

Yeah.

Right.

From fucking adult studio post

of iron shot and Duvall.

You mean Kane and Osmond had Oscar Heat?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then number 10, it's been out for five weeks.

There's the idea that that's a burying the hatchet movie

between between Kane and Bella.

Haley Joel.

The beef must be squads.

Kane does what he did.

It's fine.

I got mine for Tender Mercies, was it?

Yeah.

Haley, you'll win this time.

Second and alliance.

And Kane's like, oh,

I won't campaign.

You can campaign for this.

The lions are yours.

What the fuck?

I've never had a good cane, and that was somehow the worst cane I've ever had.

Meanwhile, David's cane just popped out there.

It was broken.

You grew up in Britain, everyone has to say.

Never say the lines were yours.

The lines are yours.

I can't remember.

I lost it.

Number 10 is Lost in Translation,

which people forget came out in like an August.

It was in August.

Yeah.

Wow.

It was in early September.

Right.

Did it go to Venice and then straight into theaters or something?

I think so.

But it like played for five months.

Are you high on crack?

All right.

We're going to complete the episode with Ben.

Griffin, you would have gotten a text from Ben.

Ben, I guess, just started hitting up eBay because he didn't care for the movie.

So he's just hyping shit.

Oh, no.

I looked up if there's any merch.

He looked up merch spotlight and sent an eBay link.

For $125

or best offer, perhaps.

Yeah.

You can buy a shirt.

Maybe the most wrinkled shirt.

I was going to say.

A city wrinkled shirt worn by Cedric the Entertainer.

Wow.

With Studio COA, so it's

a screen prop.

It's just funny because the picture of the shirt now is so wrinkled.

Yes.

But then the picture of him wearing it, you're like, this shirt was very iron it was new in 2003 it's also

it's the shape of the shirt i will say is not making a ton of sense to me it almost looks like it's like a midriff cut it is does look short but maybe it's a proportion and i'm like are the sleeves tiny or are they hidden are you guys tempted to buy i mean i'm looking around this office with all the stuff here and i cannot tell how much of it is shit you have bought on ebay just like this in a recording every day we come in here and david goes i wish there was more stuff he goes no he's just buying more it's interesting that you've you've said, we.

It's true.

Fuck.

He is.

There's no option for best offer.

I would make a best offer.

We still haven't received our device that turns a fucking complicated delivery process.

Water or air into water.

Text Minix to figure out.

I feel like I'm supposed to bring a trinket.

I have to have an offering here.

We're done because we have to do tank girl.

And Kenny has to go see uh, if I had legs, I'd kick you the uh, the movie for

moms who are separated from their children as I am right now.

And made me well, it made me want never want to go home.

We'll see, uh, possibly.

I might give you some little avatar stories to bring back to the boys.

Oh, okay, true.

We'll be ready.

I think this is going to be worth it.

Very quickly, I looked up alternate titles for the foreign markets.

Uh, Love is Expensive in Argentina and Brazil.

That's pretty good now.

That's solid.

Uh, Japan divorce show.

Good.

Okay.

My favorite Austria is Anne, uh, parentheses, I am, close parentheses, possible case.

Got it.

I don't get it.

An impossible.

I don't know.

Oh.

And possible and impossible.

Oh.

Okay.

It's got layers.

Yeah.

I think David's giving me kind of a

intolerable cruelty is one of the, it sounds like the title of a USA show.

Oh, you don't think it was a good title?

It's okay.

It's before suits existed and royal pains or whatever else.

In 2003, it sounds like necessary roughness.

Nice.

There you go.

But it's like, it's fine.

You'd believe that there's like

a 10-star Hepburn Tracy movie called Intelliberal Project.

100%.

Or a fucking Rock Hudson movie.

It's like, yes, yes, 100%.

That is true.

Your best.

I'm so happy to be back here.

What a thrill.

I got to get back to New York more.

You do.

Give me the finger guns.

This episode came out last year.

I think we may have recorded it.

That's true.

We recorded it.

Well, as I said, before we started recording, it was right before I started the terrible, endless process of being laid off.

So I was like, I have a job that I like.

And And then by the time it came out, everything was insane, but it all worked out.

It all worked out.

Because I have a new job that I really like.

Yeah.

People should follow everything you're doing on the anchor.

Yeah, I'm going to promote because Prestige Junkie, I've got the podcast that's free to everybody, but we have a paid tier now where you can get extra stuff.

Chris Rose and I are talking about award season, some real nerdy nonsense.

Let's run out great takes.

You and Chris Rosen, you're interviewing great people.

Yeah, it's been fun.

I feel like you and David are united in the idea that Sandler is going to win the Oscar this year.

I'm at least floating it.

I'm not like locking it up.

I mean my super hot take is that Happy Gilmore 2 and how well that did and how many people are in it was like a really good like that's good that that's pushing him forward.

Listen to this episode.

They're both Netflix movies.

Like I think it's all there.

It's a super take that it is it is emblematic of a level of love

and just like acceptance in like you are part of the firmament.

Yeah, that movie is so cheerful and like heartfelt in this way that it just makes you more affectionate toward Adam Sandler, even if you don't like it that much.

And then people forget that for 20 years the industry would be like, oh, we hate our most successful movie star.

They would throw him under the bus at every opportunity they got and be like, we're ashamed that he's our most consistent.

Yeah, he keeps making all this money for us.

And now I feel like he's just accepted as like part of Mount Rushmore.

Yeah, I gotta be.

Speaking of Clooney, like, I'm so ready for,

I guess, by the time this airs, it will have premiered at Venice.

So the world will know if they got the goods.

I'm ready.

Yeah.

Thank you for being here.

Thanks for having me.

David?

Yes.

Did you order our lunch?

Yes.

I can't wait.

Great.

I'm excited to eat it.

We got to watch Tanko right away because I have to go to physical therapy.

Okay.

Thank you all for listening.

Please

to rate, review, and subscribe.

Everything in my body hurts.

It's not a competition.

I wasn't trying to win off.

I understand that.

It's just one of those things where my shoulders hurt for three months.

And I'm like, I guess I got to deal with this now because I'm old.

Like, it just won't stop hurting.

Yeah.

I know why.

It's because of the babies, but like, yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, that's a good call.

Yeah, I hold that.

Yeah.

They weigh, they weigh pounds.

Yeah.

When are they going to start standing?

Soon?

Soon.

Oh,

standing.

whatever.

Sorry.

Bebop's name.

Bebop.

Bebop.

I don't know.

We have to be going to do Tank Girl.

Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe.

Tune in next week for The Lady Killers.

Well, we can all agree is their worst film, even though I will mount a half-hearted.

That one is.

Right.

I would struggle with it's not their worst film for somebody.

Right.

But I was just like, you could rank Intelbra Cruelty as their second worst, and I wouldn't even argue with that because you're only putting masterpieces ahead of them.

That's the thing is I would defend this movie a lot, but it'd still be like, What am I going to put below it?

Yeah, other than Lady Killers.

It's bottom five for me.

We'll see where it is.

Yeah, it's probably top of the bottom five for me, too.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You're the greatest defender, and you're like, top of the bottom five.

They've made a lot of good movies, they made a lot of perfect films.

Um, and we'll continue to talk about them.

And as always,

we're gonna nail your asses,

we're gonna nail every one of your asses,

every person out there.

Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims.

Our executive producer is me, Ben Hosley.

Our creative producer is Marie Bardy Salinas, and our associate producer is A.J.

McKeon.

This show is mixed and edited by A.J.

McKeon and Alan Smithy.

Research by J.J.

Birch.

Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American Novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell.

Artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds.

Our production assistant is Minnick.

Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help.

Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit.

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This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.