INFAMOUS: Aarushi Talwar & Hemraj Banjade

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Hi, crime junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers.

Speaker 1 And I'm Britt.

Speaker 2 And the story I have for you today is one that I bet you haven't heard. Everyone knows Jean Bonet Ramsey because of how her case played out.
It was a media sensation here in the U.S.

Speaker 2 Murdered child, weird circumstances, contaminated crime scene, bad police work. But there was actually a case in India.
that mirrors that case in so many ways.

Speaker 2 One just as big and just as confusing, making it one of the most infamous unsolved cases in India's history.

Speaker 2 Now, quick disclaimer, because this case takes place in India, we received some guidance on our pronunciations for this episode, but I'm gonna be very honest here.

Speaker 2 We have tried the best we can, but all the guidance in the world won't make either Britt or I native Hindi speakers.

Speaker 2 But that said, we didn't want that to stop us from sharing this story with you all because as you'll come to see, there are still so many questions surrounding this case to this day.

Speaker 2 This is the story of Arushi Talwar and Hemraj Banjade.

Speaker 2 It's around 6 a.m. on May 16, 2008, in Noida, India.
And that's when Newport Talwar wakes to the sound of the doorbell ringing at her flat. And she's not surprised by this.

Speaker 2 She's expecting their cleaning lady to arrive and start her day.

Speaker 2 What she is surprised by is the fact that she has to climb out of bed and get to the door herself because their live-in house employee, Hemraj Banjade, hasn't answered it yet.

Speaker 2 He's usually on the ball as part of his job along with cooking and other household chores. However, Hemraj doesn't seem to be home.
So Nupour quickly calls him.

Speaker 2 And according to an article in Siffy by Aviruk Sen, it sounds like someone answers, but then the phone just cuts off, which is a little strange to her, but she continues to the front door and opens it.

Speaker 2 When she does, though, she discovers a problem.

Speaker 2 The outer screen door has been bolted from the outside, so she can't actually get out.

Speaker 1 She's locked in her own home?

Speaker 2 Basically, and I'm not sure why that's even like a setup like that, especially if there's like a fire and you're inside.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it seems like a hazard. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But this is like the second of three doors. And at the other end of this like little entryway, there is a locked mesh or like grill type door where the the cleaning lady is waiting.

Speaker 1 This is a very confusing and kind of dumb

Speaker 1 setup.

Speaker 2 It's a weird setup. I haven't seen it.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 So Nupur tells the cleaning lady that Hemraj must have gone out for milk and then bolted the door from the outside. Cause again, you can't bolt the door from like if you're in the house.

Speaker 2 Someone had to have left and done that. So the cleaning lady tells her, like, okay, just throw the key over the balcony and then she'll like let herself in and then unlock that bolted door.

Speaker 2 So that's precisely what she does. According to Aviruk Sen's book, Arushi from 2015, it's about this time that Nupur's husband Rajesh is up and notices a whiskey bottle on the dining room table.

Speaker 2 He asks his wife about it because he knows that he wasn't drinking that last night. And as far as he knew, she wasn't either.

Speaker 2 And she's like, yeah, I didn't get up in the middle of the night and hit the whiskey bottle while you're sleeping. So their thoughts immediately go to their 13-year-old daughter, Arushi.

Speaker 2 Now, I don't know if they're thinking maybe she drank it or they were unnerved enough to be like, okay, like, you know, wear the kids kind of thing. But either way, they go right to her room.

Speaker 2 There, they find her door ajar. And when they push it open, they are met with a horrible scene.
There is blood on the wall. Arushi is laying in bed with a blanket over her.

Speaker 2 And when they lift the blanket, they find that her throat has been slit and her skull has been crushed. And Brett, there is blood, so much blood on her pillow, so much that it drips down her mattress.

Speaker 2 Oh my God. And immediately, I mean, they don't even know what to do.
How is anyone supposed to know what to do in this scenario? Because I don't care how much I know about crime scene preservation.

Speaker 2 In that moment, I would just be mom and I would want to hold my daughter and fix everything and undo all of this.

Speaker 2 At one point, Rajesh tries to pick up his daughter's head, probably thinking like all the same things that I would be, but it's pointless. A harsh moment of reality sets back in.

Speaker 2 Both the talwars are dentists with enough medical knowledge to know that she's gone. By now, the cleaning lady has gotten back inside to find the parents just absolutely distraught.

Speaker 2 I mean, more than just crying. Rajesh is banging his head against the wall.
She sees Arushi's body and she hears the parents saying, look what Hemraj has done.

Speaker 2 Because in their eyes, like they're putting all the pieces together and in their mind, they know who did this. Their daughter is dead and their house employee is missing.

Speaker 2 So this cleaning lady rushes over to the neighbors to get help. And that neighbor then contacts a security guard who works in their building complex.

Speaker 1 Why didn't any of them just call the police?

Speaker 2 Good question. When I was reading up on this, I literally had to like double back and check the year because I was like, why, why aren't you calling police? I had the same question, but it's 2008.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, she calls the security guard, but even then, it's not her.
Right. The neighbor does it.

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 1 It seems like just go to the source.

Speaker 2 I don't know. I don't know if they're just so upset, like you're not even thinking straight, but that is what should have been done.
It just isn't.

Speaker 2 They go to the neighbor, they go to the security guard, and it's the security guard who then alerts the police.

Speaker 2 And for the life of me, I don't know why it takes this long, but it is an hour before the local police even arrive.

Speaker 2 And when they do, the flat is full of the Talwar's friends and family because they did take the time to call basically everyone else in their lives.

Speaker 1 I know you said like all crime junkie technical knowledge is out the window in a situation like this. And I completely agree, but I feel like

Speaker 1 I'd like to think I would have been together enough not to have a bunch of people traipsing all over the house in a moment like this.

Speaker 2 I agree, but I guess police don't because it doesn't even appear that they try to remedy this situation once they do arrive.

Speaker 2 In an article in the Hindustan Times from 2008, it talks about how they never seal off the flat. People are just coming and going.
And to make things worse, the press has shown up.

Speaker 2 This is a middle-class neighborhood, so a child being murdered in their home just doesn't happen. So this becomes a huge story.
And again, they're just showing up and allowed to just be there.

Speaker 1 I mean, I totally get why you compared this to Jean Bonet earlier.

Speaker 2 It's a lot of similarities. But the thing is, like, even in her case, like at the time where friends had come over to their house, Jean Bonet was just missing, like, presumed kidnapped.

Speaker 1 Which still has enough evidence that you want to preserve the scene.

Speaker 2 Listen, I agree. So I kind of go back to like, no one's just thinking straight, right? You're calling on your whole support system because you don't know how to function.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 But I guess what I was trying to say is like in Jambanea's case, like she's missing. Maybe you have people coming over to help look.
Like that's your first thought.

Speaker 2 But in this one, like, you know, you have a homicide. So so I have to just think.
It's like you're not thinking straight. Again, you need your support system or whatever.
So the police are here now.

Speaker 2 As everyone is coming and going, they begin asking the Tawars about the night before. But they tell police that everything was normal last night.
Nothing out of the ordinary.

Speaker 2 The family had a late dinner together. They even gave Arushi a digital camera for her birthday, which was coming up in a few days.
And they say that they last saw her after dinner at around 10 p.m.

Speaker 2 when she went to bed. She seemed totally fine and there was nothing the whole night that would have alerted them that anything was wrong.

Speaker 2 I mean, they were even in the room next to hers, but they say they never heard anything coming from her room to alarm them.

Speaker 2 But the small caveat to that is that just because they didn't hear anything doesn't mean there might not have been noise to hear.

Speaker 2 In a Hindustan Times article from 2008, Nupur Talwar is quoted as saying, the thing is that we have adjacent rooms. We had both air conditioners on, which are pretty noisy.

Speaker 2 We had the fans on, and probably we were fast asleep. We work like crazy people the entire day, and there are times when you sleep like a log.

Speaker 2 And now, the police do eventually test this theory, and they conclude that she's right. You could be in their room and not hear a thing coming from Arushi's room.

Speaker 1 Well, and to be honest, I don't know I'd even expect them to hear anything.

Speaker 1 I mean, I don't know how everything played out, but if Arushi's throat was slit early on, I mean, she may not have even been able to make any significant noise, you know?

Speaker 2 Which is very true, yeah.

Speaker 2 Now, as far as the rest of the flat, the police don't find any sign of forced entry. They don't see any weapon that could have been used on Arushi.

Speaker 2 Nothing was stolen in the house, except her parents do notice that Arushi's cell phone seems to be missing. It was always on her nightstand, but now it's not there and they can't find it.

Speaker 2 They do try calling it at some point, but they discover that it's been turned off or has died, basically. Like it's just, it's not ringing.

Speaker 2 Now, one benefit to having all of those people there at the scene is that there are a lot of eyes.

Speaker 2 And two friends of the Talwars tell police that they think they might have found some bloodstains on some stairs leading to the rooftop terrace.

Speaker 2 They also believe that there is some blood on the door to the terrace, which you actually need a key to unlock.

Speaker 1 Oh my God, another door, another key. You've got to be kidding me.
I love this help, but

Speaker 1 shouldn't police be searching, not some friends who are continuing to contaminate the entire crime scene.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's not a good look for the police, but here we are. So they start asking the family and friends who are there to see if they have a key to get out to this terrace.

Speaker 2 No one seems to know where this key is. It turns into like a game of telephone.
So-and-so has it. No, this other person has it.
Ask them.

Speaker 2 So they're trying to get out there, but in the meantime, Rajesh is telling police, like, forget the key, forget the terrace. Stop wasting time and find Hemraj because he's the murderer.

Speaker 1 I mean, for all they know, he could have the key.

Speaker 2 Well, potentially. So that's when the hunt for hemorrhage begins.

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Speaker 2 Now, Hemraj is from Nepal, where his wife lives. And it was pretty common for people from Nepal to find work in India, specifically work in homes for families like the Talwars.

Speaker 2 Now, even though he didn't have a ton of connections here, police learned that Hemraj has a son-in-law who also works in India.

Speaker 2 According to the documentary Behind Closed Doors from 2019, the police go to him to see if he knows where Hemraj is. But the son-in-law hasn't seen him.

Speaker 2 So they drag him to this bus station, hoping he can help them spot Hemraj, who may be trying, they think, to like skip town, but they can't find this guy anywhere.

Speaker 1 What about his phone? We know Nupur called it.

Speaker 2 Well, ultimately, they're able to determine that his phone was in the area when Nupur called it earlier that morning, but they can't determine like an exact location.

Speaker 2 And I don't think it's something that they're able to actively track by the second back in 2008.

Speaker 2 Now, at the time that they're trying to track him down, police also have Arushi's body transported for autopsy.

Speaker 2 The post-mortem doctor determines that she was, in fact, struck on the head and that the blow alone probably killed her. And it was likely after that that her throat was cut.

Speaker 2 The doctor is also able to determine that there were no signs of sexual assault, but vaginal swabs were still taken and sent out for testing, which confirmed that there wasn't the presence of semen.

Speaker 2 And from what I can gather, there didn't seem to be any defensive wounds, which, Britt, to your point earlier, like makes me think that there was nothing to hear, right?

Speaker 2 Like she gets hit over the head. Right.
And that's it. Right.
Right.

Speaker 1 So I guess my question is, what's the motive here? I understand why they're looking at Himraj, but why would he kill her?

Speaker 2 I don't even know that they have a real theory as to why yet. I think they're hoping that when they find him, like they can fill in the pieces.

Speaker 2 Or maybe there is more at the scene that can fill in the pieces. Which is why a retired police officer named KK Gautam stops by the crime scene the next day.

Speaker 2 Even though he's not officially on the case, he shares mutual friends with the Talwars. And he's actually the one who helped get Arushi's autopsy expedited the day before.

Speaker 2 So, like, this dude has some pull because he used to be deputy superintendent of the police. So, no one really has a problem with him being there at the scene.

Speaker 2 Not that they have a problem with anyone being there at the scene, but it seems like he's like welcomed in a little bit.

Speaker 2 And even to get there, though, again, he has to like push through this mob of reporters to get inside.

Speaker 2 But when he finally makes his way in eventually he ends up at the door that leads to the rooftop terrace and this door is still locked they never opened it no like they were still just looking for the key and i guess apparently never found it and were like you know i don't know i don't know okay but just break down the door i mean there's literally blood leading out the door that's locked.

Speaker 2 I know. Oh my God.
That's what I can't figure out either. According to the documentary, Arushi, Beyond Reasonable Doubt, and it was from 2017, that is precisely what ends up happening.

Speaker 2 Like he tells them, okay, forget the key. Let's just get this door down.
And honestly, they don't break down the whole door. They just break the lock.
It's not even that hard.

Speaker 2 And then they push the door open. And as they step out onto the terrace, they find something that no one expected.
There's another body. in a pool of blood.

Speaker 2 And even though by this point, it is badly decomposed due to the hot sun, it's obvious who this is.

Speaker 1 Oh my god, it's Hemraj?

Speaker 2 Mm-hmm. They ask Rajesh to ID the body since he's one of the people there who would know him best.
Like this guy lived in his house. And at first he's reluctant.

Speaker 1 I mean, I also would be reluctant to have to ID a body, but

Speaker 1 if it's him, then police are out there looking for

Speaker 1 the person that they have right here.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I don't know why the resistance is there initially, but eventually he does agree to do it and he confirms that the body is in fact Hemraj.

Speaker 1 And is his phone with him?

Speaker 2 Nope.

Speaker 1 Then who picked it up when Nupour called that morning?

Speaker 2 That is a great question and police don't know at this point. And there definitely is a who

Speaker 2 because If anyone even for a moment theorized that he killed a rushi and then maybe killed himself, that's out the window with his post-mortem, because it determines that he has some trauma to the back of his head and his throat has also been slit.

Speaker 2 Now on him, there were some signs of defensive wounds like on his elbow, but those also could have occurred from his body being dragged from the rooftop terrace steps or from the door to the corner of the roof where he's ultimately found.

Speaker 2 And it's also worth noting that they found no alcohol in his system, according to an India Today article from 2008.

Speaker 1 Which is notable because of that bottle of whiskey Rajesh found on the table.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he wasn't drinking that night. So who was?

Speaker 1 Was the bottle even the families? Like, did it even belong in the house or was it something that no one even recognized?

Speaker 2 No, from what I gather, the bottle is like from their flat. They just don't know who'd been drinking it.

Speaker 1 And I assumed it was collected for some sort of testing at least, right?

Speaker 2 They did. They collected it.
They sent it off, but like the results aren't back yet. I mean, we're on just like day two here.

Speaker 2 And day two becomes a PR disaster for the police because the fact that they weren't the ones to have found Hemraj, who had been out on this terrace the entire time, while by the way, they're doing a manhunt for him.

Speaker 2 It's not a good look.

Speaker 1 Yeah, when all they had to do was open a freaking door?

Speaker 2 Literally. And now that Hemraj has been like taken off the board, like he's no longer can be a suspect.
Police Police have no suspects.

Speaker 1 Was there anyone else living at the house? Any siblings? Other family?

Speaker 2 No. Just the parents, Arushi, and Hemraj.
And they're all in just this roughly like 2,000 square foot flat.

Speaker 1 Honestly, I'm so hung up on this door thing. Like they had to have let someone in.

Speaker 2 Well, that, or it was someone who was already inside.

Speaker 1 Like the parents?

Speaker 2 Maybe?

Speaker 1 But can you even close that latch on the one door, like from the inside? I'm so confused about these doors and locks and keys and who has them.

Speaker 2 They haven't tested anything yet. So I'm not even saying it's possible.
I'm just saying like the only two logical options are you let someone in or it was somebody who was already in, right?

Speaker 2 So police are thinking this too, which is why they start interviewing basically everyone in the family, everyone in their circle, all of the domestic help that they had, other families had, just like trying to figure out who had access, who had motive, all of it.

Speaker 2 A Hindustan Times article mentions that one person they end up detaining is a guy named Vishnu.

Speaker 2 He's a distant relative of Hemraj's, and Hemraj actually took over his job about eight months ago after Vishnu had worked for the family for over seven years.

Speaker 1 And did he want him to take his job?

Speaker 2 So that's kind of the theory at first. Like maybe he went to Hemraj to like get his old job back, but then Hemraj wasn't interested in leaving and then there was some kind of argument that ensues.

Speaker 2 He kills him and then for some reason kills Arushi. Maybe she was a witness or seen them together or whatever.

Speaker 2 But the problem with this theory or any theory around Vishnu is that it turns out he was in Nepal the day that the murders were committed. So he is cleared as a suspect.

Speaker 2 But in the time that they looked into him and then talked to others, they were able to find out a family secret, one that actually might lend itself to motive.

Speaker 2 Apparently, Rajesh may have been having an affair. And with that information, a whole new theory starts to emerge for police.

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Speaker 2 The Inspector General of Police holds a press conference to lay it all out. And the theory goes a little something like this.
The police say that Rajesh was having an affair with a fellow dentist.

Speaker 2 Arushi found out and then discussed this with Hemraj. In doing this, they became quote-unquote close.

Speaker 2 And he just kind of leaves that hanging out there. He doesn't elaborate on what he means by close.

Speaker 2 But the implication becomes clear as he continues, because he claims that on the night of May 15th, Rajesh finds Arushi and Hemraj in an objectionable but not compromising position.

Speaker 2 And then Rajesh kills them both in what would be, for him, meaning Rajesh, considered an honor killing, which is an all too real reality for young women in India at the time.

Speaker 1 I think it's pretty notable and maybe convenient the way he was phrasing things like saying objectionable but not compromising because he knows the post-mortem doctor didn't find any evidence of sexual assault or sexual activity.

Speaker 2 Yes, super convenient. And by the way, during this press conference, he keeps referring to Arushi as Shruti.

Speaker 1 Was that one of her nicknames or something?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 2 He's just straight up getting her name wrong. So like, what? Yeah, how much do you trust this big theory when you can't even get the victim's name right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 But that doesn't seem to bother anyone else because on May 23rd, exactly a week after Arushi's body was discovered, her father, Rajesh, is arrested for both murders.

Speaker 2 And of course, the media and the press pounce on all the juicy details from this press conference, turning the case into a bigger circus than it already was.

Speaker 2 And to give you an idea of how big, Aviruk Sen's book talks about how you can measure a news story's popularity in India by comparing it with the cricket ratings, which is like a huge sport there.

Speaker 2 The viewership of the Talwars case was greater than that of the Indian Premier League matches.

Speaker 1 So is this case solved or is there just pressure to hurry up and say, we got the person who did this, even if all the pieces don't exactly fit?

Speaker 2 You're asking all the right questions. After After this press conference, the police catch a lot of heat, rightfully so, because it feels quick and doesn't quite make sense.

Speaker 2 Arushi's classmates hold a march actually protesting because in trying to name a killer, even when, like you said, the pieces don't all fit, they were assassinating her character.

Speaker 2 The National Commission for Protection of Child Rights even goes after the police regarding their framing of Arushi's quote-unquote relationship with Hemraj.

Speaker 2 And the Talwar family demands that the Central Bureau of Investigations, which is basically their FBI, take over the case. And that's exactly what happens a little over a week later on June 1st.

Speaker 2 The CBI comes in and finally seals off the family's flat and collects any remaining evidence. blood, fingerprints, any other forensic evidence.

Speaker 1 That's wonderful to hear, but is any of it even usable at this point? I mean, how many more people have trampled through this crime scene by now?

Speaker 2 Well, Britt, by this point, total strangers have eventually made their way inside. Oh my God.
Like at first, it was all family, friends, police, whatever, which is bad enough.

Speaker 2 Then they apparently let everyone in.

Speaker 2 To your point, I almost wonder if this was just for show, like a good photo op for the CBI to prove that they were doing things differently.

Speaker 2 I mean, also, you have to do it because to say that you didn't is negligent, even if like the stuff is compromised. I don't know.
Cause again, you have to get it. Will it hold up in court? Who knows?

Speaker 2 Now, there was some evidence gathered even before the CBI got involved.

Speaker 2 A Times of India piece from 2009 mentions that when the CBI looks at the prior evidence, they discover that 24 of the 26 fingerprints collected by the police were useless because they actually used the wrong procedure procedure in collecting them.

Speaker 2 What? But if there is one saving grace, the prints that were good don't match anyone related to the case.

Speaker 2 So those might actually belong to someone that we want to find if we ever get around to finding them. They then discover that Arushi's bed sheet and blanket were disposed of.

Speaker 2 And then there's the fact that Arushi's mattress was tossed on a neighbor's terrace so that the house could be cleaned.

Speaker 1 What is happening?

Speaker 2 It's a disaster. However, they do get some results back from at least one of the tests.
Results that actually give DNA. The problem is it's just not helpful.

Speaker 2 The tests they ran on the whiskey bottle come back as having blood on it. And the blood contained DNA of both Arushi and Hemraj.

Speaker 1 Which just means the killer touched it after committing the murders.

Speaker 2 That doesn't give us anything. Correct.
The killer doesn't seem to have left anything of themselves behind.

Speaker 2 Now, there's reports of partial fingerprints, but again, nothing matching anyone connected to the case so far.

Speaker 1 And besides an affair, what do they have tying Rajesh to this then?

Speaker 2 I mean, we know he was in the flat that night. We know he could have done this, but that's it.

Speaker 1 That's nothing.

Speaker 2 Yeah, the CBI doesn't seem to be as convinced as the the police that he's the murderer because they start looking at three other potential suspects in June.

Speaker 2 One of them is Krishna, one of Rajesh's dental assistants.

Speaker 2 The others are Raj Kumar, a domestic worker for the family of the Talwars, and Vijay Mandal, a domestic worker for one of the Talwars' neighbors.

Speaker 1 And why are they honed in on these guys?

Speaker 2 Well, I guess all three of them are friends or acquaintances of Hemraj. And it makes sense to look at people around him and who he knew.

Speaker 2 And in addition to knowing him or being connected to him in some way, all three of these men had connections to the Talwar family in some way as well. So again, it's just like connections.

Speaker 2 But honestly, I'm wondering if there isn't just some straight-up bias on the part of police here.

Speaker 2 But the CBI puts these three through a series of narco tests, which I had never heard of. But in an article in The Hindu from 2022, it breaks down precisely what a narcotest entails.

Speaker 2 So I'm just gonna read this verbatim.

Speaker 2 The test involves the intravenous administering of a drug, such as sodium pentothal, scopolamine, and sodium amethol, that causes a person undergoing it to enter into various stages of anesthesia.

Speaker 2 In a hypnotic stage, the person becomes less inhibited and is more likely to divulge divulge information which would usually not be revealed in the conscious state.

Speaker 1 So, truth serum.

Speaker 2 Basically, yeah.

Speaker 1 But that's like a lie detector. You can't use that in court.

Speaker 2 Not in the U.S., no.

Speaker 2 But according to that same article in The Hindu, it can be admitted there, quote, under certain circumstances when the court thinks that the facts and nature of the case permit it, end quote.

Speaker 2 Now, I don't know what those certain circumstances are. That's like pretty vague to me.

Speaker 2 But the CBI believes in the results and they might be fighting to get them admitted because during their narco tests, Krishna, Raj, and Vijay implicate themselves in the murders of Arushi and Hemraj.

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Speaker 2 according to an article in the tribune from 2008 the cbi claims that the narco test findings reveal the truth of what happened Hemraj let Krishna, Raj, and Vijay into the flat on the night of the murders, presumably after the family had gone to sleep.

Speaker 2 Now, this part is somewhat believable because as mentioned earlier, the three men did actually know Hemraj. And Krishna and Raj were also from Nepal.

Speaker 2 So the CBI goes on to say that they all drank alcohol and then went into Arushi's room to sexually assault her.

Speaker 2 And when Arushi resisted and tried to call out, basically raised the alarm in some way, they hit her in the head.

Speaker 2 And then panicking, they ran onto the terrace where this fight breaks out and Hemraj was killed. And in an attempt to conceal what they'd done, they went back to Urushi's room and killed her.

Speaker 1 But that doesn't 100% line up because we know that Hemraj wasn't drinking. He didn't have any alcohol in his system.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's true. But it doesn't necessarily mean that the others couldn't have been if you believe this version.
Now, the CBI has something else, though.

Speaker 2 They think that one of the murder weapons could be a kukri, which is a Nepalese knife. They actually find one of these when they search Krishna's room.

Speaker 1 And is it tested?

Speaker 2 It is. And from what I can gather, those tests show no trace of human blood, per the Hindustan Times article from 2012.
But apparently the CBI feels confident that they're on the right track.

Speaker 2 So much so that Rajesh Talwar, who was in custody at that point, is finally set free.

Speaker 2 But now the CBI is getting a little taste of what the local police got when they put out their theory.

Speaker 2 Not only are the families of the three accused upset, but there is this perception that they're being framed because they are poor domestic workers and two of them are not even from India.

Speaker 1 Well, and I don't think anyone they've arrested should be put away based on theories and basically drugging them. I mean, show me one actual piece of evidence here.

Speaker 2 Everyone wants to see the evidence, but the problem is it's just not there.

Speaker 2 So by September, the case against these three men is already falling apart. And honestly, even the things they try to do to prove their theory backfire.

Speaker 2 Like the CBI sends out Arushi's vaginal swabs for retesting, hoping that this time around, something is found to indicate some sort of sexual crime.

Speaker 2 But then they get this big shock because the swabs come back and they don't even belong to Arushi. What?

Speaker 2 whose swab is it then that's a good question they don't know all they know is it's not a rushi's which means that the swabs were switched or lost or contaminated who knows and they have nothing yeah and they have to open a whole secondary investigation to find out what happened there but as far as i gather there's no resolution really they just don't know so there goes that evidence and there is nothing

Speaker 2 nothing else that puts any of these guys at the crime scene. So as they're nearing the end of this 90-day window that they have to charge these guys or let them go, they let them go.

Speaker 1 And the police are just back to square one.

Speaker 2 They are. And the case goes cold for over a year.

Speaker 2 But then, In September 2009, the CBI puts a new team together to reinvigorate things. And almost instantly, things begin to move again.
And the CBI brings in a forensic expert to help.

Speaker 2 And that's when this weird piece of evidence kind of falls into their laps, a Rushi's cell phone.

Speaker 2 According to an article for NDTV from 2009, the Delhi police were investigating an extortion racket. They basically came across a phone in the city of Bulan Shahar.

Speaker 2 And when they traced this ID number on the phone, the ID name, it came back as belonging to Arushi.

Speaker 1 The ID number, like the phone number?

Speaker 2 I don't think so. I don't know the exact details, but it seems like maybe it was something more like a serial number.
Okay.

Speaker 2 And what I'm thinking is that when police found out that Arushi's phone was missing, they must have entered this ID number into some kind of database.

Speaker 2 And then when this other investigation is going on and they find it, I'm assuming they like plug that number in to see if anything pops up.

Speaker 2 I don't know, but basically that's how it gets connected through this ID number. So anyways, the guy that had the phone was using it off and on for the last few months.

Speaker 2 And he claims that it was his sister that gave him the phone. And the sister, it turns out, happens to be a domestic worker in Noida.

Speaker 1 And how far is Balancha Hart to Noida?

Speaker 2 It's like under an hour and a half. But don't even get too excited because they don't find anything on the phone.
The SIM card had been destroyed or wiped.

Speaker 2 And then when they interview this brother and sister, the sister claims that her son found the phone abandoned.

Speaker 2 And the CBI ends up going to the area where they say that it was found, but there's nothing in the research that shows the exact location or where it is in relation to the Talwar home.

Speaker 2 And ultimately, like, again, they follow this whole thread, but they don't think that it actually has any connection to the murder.

Speaker 1 This family just had the bad luck of finding this particular phone.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and I mean, again, it is her phone, but someone dumped it. And they don't think that, again, the people who had it or found it are connected in any way.
Right.

Speaker 2 Now, around the end of September, something else strange happens.

Speaker 2 According to Avi Rook Sen's book, the doctor who performed Arushi's post-mortem examination altered his initial statement and decided to inform the CBI that Arushi's, quote, vaginal opening was prominently wide open and the cervix was visible, end quote.

Speaker 2 According to him, he did not include these details in the post-mortem report earlier because the quote findings were nonspecific and very strange.

Speaker 1 Uh, you left out very strange findings the first time and now over a year later, you're suggesting there was some sort of sexual assault or encounter?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Like, why you change your mind this late in the game is beyond me.
And to me, in a murder investigation, something is, that is very strange absolutely should be included.

Speaker 1 Right. And I'd like to focus in on what you said, change your mind.
It's not even like he can go back and examine her another time. Like, right.

Speaker 1 He's just looking at his report and being like, actually, no, that's not what happened. What he wrote.
He's just changing his mind.

Speaker 2 I'm saying his report that he did not write that in. So he literally like woke up one day and was was like, you know what? I never wrote that down, but I remember I should probably let someone.

Speaker 2 It's weird. It's so weird.
Totally bizarre. And hold tight because he's not the only one who changes his mind.

Speaker 2 Avi Ruk Sen's book also states that by mid-October, Hemraj's post-mortem doctor also changes his findings, stating that he thinks the person who slit the throats was surgically trained and used a sharp-edged light instrument.

Speaker 1 Oh my God.

Speaker 2 Oh no. Yep.
You know where this is going.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 2 When the forensic expert turns his report in at the end of October, he accuses Rajesh and his wife, Nupour, of committing the crimes.

Speaker 2 He suggests, like the police initially did, that this was a case of an honor killing. and that a golf club and a surgical instrument were most likely the murder weapons.

Speaker 1 And did they have the weapons all along, or did these just magically appear too?

Speaker 2 Well, there were some golf clubs in the family's flat. And I guess he's saying that like, oh, it was a convenient weapon.

Speaker 2 And, you know, based on the looking at the wounds, like it could have caused the same type of damage to both of the victims.

Speaker 2 So the CBI decides to take all of the golf clubs and they send them out for testing. But then this is the problem.
This is where we get holes again. The tests find nothing.

Speaker 2 So it's just someone's idea again, just a theory. And again, the CBI have nothing.

Speaker 2 But in the beginning of 2010, they ask a judge for permission to conduct narco tests on the TALWARs, and they get the permission.

Speaker 2 In February, they undergo narcoanalysis, which ultimately determines that they were not involved in the crime. So if the CBI wanted another confession, they didn't get it.

Speaker 2 And so they move to have the case closed.

Speaker 1 Closed? They're just giving up?

Speaker 2 Sorta. In December, the CBI files something in India known as a closure report.
And the CBI has its own court system, which is kind of interesting.

Speaker 2 And they need permission from this court to close a case. And so they present this closure report.

Speaker 2 And in it, they list all the reasons that they suspect the Talwars are guilty of the crime, but basically say that there's insufficient evidence to prove it.

Speaker 1 It feels like a reverse Alfred almost, but I guess, what are these reasons? I feel like I'm missing something here.

Speaker 2 Well, so again, they like list them out in this report. And there's that terrace door that's locked.
They're like, it's hard to see an outside murderer take the time to stop and do that.

Speaker 2 Then there is the blanket or the sheet that was placed over Arushi's body. And they're like, you know, why is the murderer taking time to do this?

Speaker 2 And then we have the whiskey bottle found on the table that had both of the victims' blood on it, which they say means the killer stopped to have a drink after the fact.

Speaker 2 All while if it's not the parents, the parents are just like sleeping in the same small flat. So they turn this in.
And then when the court sees it, they're like, hold the phone.

Speaker 2 We're not permitting you to close this case. In fact, we're going to require that the Talwar stand trial for the murder of Arushi and Hemraj.

Speaker 1 I did not see that coming.

Speaker 2 I didn't didn't even know that they could do that.

Speaker 1 Do you think this was the CBI's intention all along? Like, oh, we're gonna close it. Hope the court doesn't make us take this to trial.

Speaker 2 Right, because of course they know how it works, right? We don't, but they do. I don't know for sure, but I definitely think that has to be considered.

Speaker 2 Because if you look at everything that they listed in this thing, it seems like they presented it more as evidence to keep the case open than to close it.

Speaker 2 Now, the Talwars tried to fight these charges for over a year, appealing to higher courts, trying to get them dismissed, and the media continues to just fuel the story, which is now turning negative toward the Talwars.

Speaker 2 After one court appearance, Rajesh is attacked by someone with some kind of sharp weapon or knife or something.

Speaker 2 An article in the Times of India from 2011 states that his injuries are so severe that they require him to have surgery on his face.

Speaker 1 Oh my God.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it is getting ugly.

Speaker 2 All of their appeals eventually fail. And in June of 2012, they have to go to trial.
All the evidence against them is laid out again.

Speaker 2 But in an interesting twist, continuing with the theme of people changing their minds or just adding to their stories, remember KK Gautam, that retired police officer?

Speaker 1 Yeah, the one who finally found Hemraj.

Speaker 2 And that's the one. Well, if you remember, so he's the one who was able to help expedite Arushi's autopsy.

Speaker 2 And I guess that call was prompted by a friend of the Talwars. So KK claims on the stand that when he got that call, there was something else mentioned to him, rape.

Speaker 2 He says he was told that if there were any signs of rape, that the family didn't want that to show up in the autopsy report.

Speaker 2 Now, he claims that when he gets this call, they're asking him, like, can you call to get the autopsy expedited? But by the way, way, they ask him if this shows up, not to mention anything.

Speaker 2 He says he then makes the call to get the autopsy expedited, but he says that he didn't relay the information about leaving out any signs of rape.

Speaker 2 All he relayed was like, hey, could you speed this thing along?

Speaker 1 So he's implying that they were covering things up or trying to cover things up.

Speaker 2 Yes, but also saying like, I think what he's trying to say is like, it was there all along. It's not weird that it's popping up now, but like, also, I didn't do anything bad.

Speaker 2 Like, you know what I mean? It's like, it doesn't work without you in the middle. I don't know.

Speaker 1 Yeah. But he is trying to like give more credibility to some of these stories that have shifted around.
Correct.

Speaker 2 Correct. And him saying this is lending credence to the idea that maybe this was an honor killing.

Speaker 1 And again, why didn't he mention any of this earlier?

Speaker 2 Exactly. I mean, this is a very convenient turn of events for the prosecution.
And the Talwars are already behind the eight ball because the judge they have is tough. Like this guy is no joke.

Speaker 2 In that behind closed doors documentary, it's revealed that his nickname was Sazalah, which means the man who always punishes. And this isn't a jury trial.

Speaker 2 So any decision starts and ends with the man who always punishes. The Talwars lawyer tries a similar tactic they used before the trial even started, stalling.

Speaker 2 They start filing all these legal briefs to higher courts.

Speaker 1 And how does that help them?

Speaker 2 Well, so this tough as nails judge is actually set to retire soon and they know this.

Speaker 2 So I think this is strictly a legal tactic, which by the way doesn't actually work. A higher court finally tells them to just get on with it, which they have to do.

Speaker 2 And so on November 25th of 2013, The Talwars are found guilty of the murder of their daughter Arushi and the murder of Hemraj. And the next day, they are sentenced to life in prison.

Speaker 1 Did they ever admit to anything?

Speaker 2 The exact opposite. And they continued to proclaim their innocence for over four years until October 2017, when Rajesh and Nupur have their convictions overturned after appealing to a higher court.

Speaker 2 And that court points to the fact that they were convicted solely on circumstantial evidence. And this means that both of them are officially exonerated and released from jail.

Speaker 2 Then, in March of 2018, both the CBI and Hemraj's wife petitioned the Supreme Court to challenge the Talwar's exoneration and release.

Speaker 2 It goes to the Supreme Court in August, but according to our research, there's just nothing after that.

Speaker 2 So either the CBI didn't go through with this, or it hasn't happened yet, which, I mean, I know stuff takes a long time, but I can't imagine it taking this long.

Speaker 1 But regardless, it leaves the case exactly where we started, unsolved.

Speaker 2 Correct. And whatever you feel about Arushi's parents, guilty, not guilty, or anyone else considered a suspect in this case, I think we can all agree that Arushi and Hemraj deserved so much better.

Speaker 2 Better from police who investigated the case and better from the media that covered it.

Speaker 2 And I do want to say that I feel like there is so much that can be lost in translation with this case or that is lost in translation with this case.

Speaker 2 So much so that I don't feel like I can even have an opinion. I have a lot of questions, like plenty of questions.

Speaker 2 Why was her phone taken? Why was it on? And if the point was to hide something on it, why not make sure the phone was destroyed forever? Throw it in a body of water. Like, don't just wipe the sim.

Speaker 2 Is it even possible to lock that door? then get back into the house or can you lock it from the inside?

Speaker 2 Would her parents even have sway over people to have things like an autopsy covered up culturally would that be a thing people would go along with as far as i can tell kk is the only one who claims that everyone else just changed their minds but then why were her swabs lost and what happened to them what about hemraj's phone right like it's missing someone answered it who's that someone right And they have two prints.

Speaker 2 Who do those belong to?

Speaker 2 We know that there was blood on the whiskey bottle, but but like was the mouth of the bottle tested for dna because as far as i can tell there aren't any glasses laying out so or were there glasses you know what i mean like i right there are all i all i have are questions hamraj never got to return to his home country of nepal and a rushi at 13 years old was just a kid she had her whole life ahead of her and instead her whole life was violently snatched away from her and most likely by someone she knew or someone that the family knew, someone who had access to them.

Speaker 2 All we can hope for at this point is that the truth eventually does come out. Because until it does, Arushi and Hemraj will never truly get the justice they deserve.

Speaker 2 You can find all the source material for this episode on on our website, CrimeJunkiePodcast.com.

Speaker 1 And be sure to follow us on Instagram at Crime Junkie Podcast.

Speaker 2 We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. But stick around for the good.

Speaker 2 All right, crime junkies. I know you missed us last month, so we're back in the new year with some good that will really make you proud of being a crime junkie and proud of our community.

Speaker 2 I have been looking forward to this all month.

Speaker 1 Ashley, please give us all the warm, happy tinglies, please.

Speaker 2 Don't need to ask me twice. Okay, so this is a web submission that we got.

Speaker 2 Hello, ladies, just finishing up listening to one of your Crime Junkie episodes. I was listening to the good segment and figured I would share my story with you as well.

Speaker 2 About a year ago, I started binge listening to Crime Junkie and the Deck. I really started getting into mystery podcasts.

Speaker 2 I downloaded your file and got everything together that I would need for myself and my kids if we were to go missing.

Speaker 2 I had long talks with my oldest son about internet safety and about strangers and if something were to happen to any of us.

Speaker 2 Most of what I said goes in one ear and out the other, like most 13-year-olds.

Speaker 1 And all the parents said, amen.

Speaker 2 He gets a little tired of my safety and constantly listening to the podcast since it's not music.

Speaker 2 But I really feel like me listening to you guys is what really helped me stay focused, have a plan to follow, and use a part of my voice I never actually thought I would have to use.

Speaker 2 You see, a little over a month ago, my son was kidnapped. I'll never forget that feeling of having to call the police and tell them my child was was missing.

Speaker 2 Thankfully, I didn't get told I had to wait 24 hours. When I filed the police report and got down to the police station, I was informed that my 13-year-old son was traveling with a 24-year-old female.

Speaker 2 My family and friends rallied behind me. We took to social media and spread the news like wildfire.
The Crime Junkie community is amazing.

Speaker 2 By the time I thought of it and checked the pages, they had already shared my son's missing flyers. His phone was pinged almost two hours away.

Speaker 2 Because Because of listening to Crime Junkie so much, I knew what we needed to do. I used my voice, I hounded the police, I got the news and social media involved, and my voice paid off.

Speaker 2 On the fifth day, my son was found and returned to me. The woman was arrested and is still in jail.

Speaker 2 But as I cook dinner and listen to you guys talk about this week's episode, I can't help but cry and smile. I look up and my boy is here.

Speaker 2 My son has a long road ahead of him, but if it wasn't for the Crime junkie community, the community of people who shared enough to get his face around, I don't think he would be here. So thank you.

Speaker 2 Thank you for using your voice to get cases heard, to spread awareness, to help people be prepared. Thank you for being there for this mom when she needed it most.

Speaker 1 Oh my God.

Speaker 2 I want to say thank you to our listeners. You guys are the ones who

Speaker 2 rallied for this mom.

Speaker 1 That's who activated. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 I'm so proud of you guys.

Speaker 1 These are the ones that like stop me in my tracks.

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