Talking Dateline: The Intruder

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Speaker 1 Hi, I'm Dennis Murphy, and I'm here with Andrea Canning and the producer of this episode, Brad Davis. This is Talking Dateline.
Hi guys, how are you? Good. Hey, Dennis.
Hey, Dennis. Hey, Brad.
Hey.

Speaker 1 Today's episode is is called The Intruder, and it's a case that begins with a violent home invasion and a woman named Rachel Owens.

Speaker 1 She's clinging to life after being shot multiple times at a friend's house in Maine. But what investigators uncovered was no random break-in.
This crime was personal, calculated.

Speaker 1 And the person responsible was someone Rachel loved and trusted, her husband Greg Owens.

Speaker 1 If you haven't listened to the episode yet, you can find it right below this podcast or watch it now on Peacock.

Speaker 1 When you come back, we'll share an extra clip from Andrea's interview with Betsy Wonki, one of the women at the center of the story who once ran an organization called the Warrior Princess Academy.

Speaker 1 And later, we'll share some more behind-the-scenes details about the episode and answer some of your questions from social media. And I've got a little bit of a cold and I can hear my voice breaking.

Speaker 1 How are you guys? Look, I had to go to my thesaurus to find extra words to describe this guy, Greg Owens. Narcissist,

Speaker 1 cad,

Speaker 1 murderous. Andrea, who did this guy turn out to be for you?

Speaker 2 I mean, yeah, the fact that,

Speaker 2 I mean, the whole thing was crazy.

Speaker 2 You know, I mean, he's got another woman in another state, and he's not only planning the murder of his wife, but he's planning the murder at his wife's friend's house. Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, so it looks like the friends were the targets. I mean, the whole thing was...

Speaker 2 was wild.

Speaker 1 This story of a home invasion theory doesn't hold water for very long, does it? Yeah,

Speaker 1 it seemed like it was targeted from the beginning. They just didn't know exactly what the circumstances were.
And

Speaker 1 it really, in those early stages of the investigation,

Speaker 1 they got a phone call from this police chief out in Wisconsin

Speaker 1 who said, hey, I think

Speaker 1 I heard that there was this shooting and you should know that this

Speaker 1 that this woman's husband is having an affair with my friend. You have two women and they don't realize at all that they are in a romantic love triangle.
Right. Yes.
Right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Greg is happily married to the people who know him, right, in his circles.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. And then he's got this relationship going with Betsy Wonkey in Wisconsin and she has absolutely no idea that he's married and has this other life.

Speaker 2 And she's thinking she's met her Prince Charming. He was so perfect for her, she thought.

Speaker 1 He was really lovey-dovey, wasn't he, Andrea? I mean, it was kind of like cringe stuff, the stories they told him.

Speaker 2 With Betsy, yeah,

Speaker 1 dancing on the deck. And

Speaker 1 I think the pedicures that he would give Betsy pedicures in the bathtub, which was the detail that we all were sort of cringing at.

Speaker 1 Or Mr. Smoothie up in first class saying, Hey, I happen to have your seat here for you.
Right, right. That was how it was.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he really, he really was, you know, so charming with her. And, you know, poor Betsy walked right into,

Speaker 2 you know, this trap. I mean, having just no idea what was really happening.

Speaker 1 And it was a real relationship. I mean, they were together almost 10 years.
So it wasn't sort of like a, just a brief affair. She really thought that this was a meaningful, you know,

Speaker 1 they were going to be together.

Speaker 2 And just to just to give you some background on Betsy, you know, Brad and I got to know Betsy.

Speaker 2 You know, she She was a very lovely woman and we went out there and we interviewed her and we did the Princess Academy, you know, where she was showing some of her moves.

Speaker 2 And little did Betsy know at that time when we're shooting this date line that she would be in a future dateline.

Speaker 2 Another case, and this was the episode called The Safari Story,

Speaker 2 and it was about the murder of a woman named Bianca in Zambia. So Betsy knew the killer.
Betsy knew Bianca's husband, Larry Rudolph. And she was in the same hunting circles as him.

Speaker 2 And in fact, Betsy told a story at one point of when Larry in the middle of the night tried to get Betsy to come to his hotel room.

Speaker 2 And she was friends. Betsy was friends with Bianca.

Speaker 1 You know, so I mean, you can't tell me enough about Betsy. I think this is a fascinating character and it's a great interview.

Speaker 1 I got the feeling that even after everything was known, she still had a thing for this guy. Do you, do you think there was something there?

Speaker 2 I mean, I think it's just the idea of him, right?

Speaker 2 She had found this man that she finally felt was was her forever man, you know, this man that shared all the same passions and that she connected with. So it's hard to just turn that off.

Speaker 2 And it would be very confusing, you know, to to know one man.

Speaker 2 And then you find out there's this other side of him. I mean, I can't even imagine how, like, just how much that would mess with you.
I'm actually texting her right now.

Speaker 2 So if I'm looking down, it's because I'm texting Betsy. She, she communicates with me like a lot.

Speaker 2 So I'm just asking her. I'm just telling her that we're talking about her on the podcast and just saying, you know, is there anything you want to say or what are you up to?

Speaker 2 So we'll see what I'm sure she'll respond.

Speaker 1 Andrea, you've got two strong women at the heart of this thing. We talked a little bit about Betsy.
Tell me about Rachel.

Speaker 1 When you met her, here was this woman who had this remarkable comeback from death's door. Who did you, who did she turn out to be for you? I mean, I see such a strong resolve.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Survival skill.

Speaker 2 Really? I mean, I mean, just to go through such a nightmare scenario.

Speaker 2 First of all, you know, a home invasion is terrorizing, obviously, you know, and then to find out that it's your own husband who carried this out. I mean, it's incredible that she survived.

Speaker 2 And Brad was the one who, you know, convinced Rachel to do the interview. And we weren't sure what to expect, you know, based on her injury.
And she was lovely.

Speaker 2 And we both thought she did a really good job, right, Brad? Like for what she'd been through.

Speaker 1 Yeah, she was. I I mean,

Speaker 1 I had seen her in court. I actually was at the sentencing hearing.
I saw her and I met her and spoke with her and her son, who was great, and her son, Wayne.

Speaker 1 But we were nervous about how she was going to be in an interview. There was a question about her memory, you know, even before this happened, you know, because Greg basically.

Speaker 1 said she had dementia or early onset dementia, but there was no official diagnosis of that. That was partly his story, I think, to tell Betsy.

Speaker 1 um you know i think she had some memory issues but then but then when this happened i mean she could not remember the incident itself like she could only vaguely remember a man she described in a um you know a jamaican hat that's like all she could really remember which became an issue at trial because it was a little different from what the homeowner said.

Speaker 2 The fact that Rachel sat down and did the interview, that she was, she said, yes. How many people would say no to that? Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, like I'll pass.

Speaker 1 She was amazing. She took the stand and faced down her husband and the person who shot her.
And

Speaker 1 maybe that's what sealed

Speaker 1 the verdict. What do you think, Brad? I think it was very powerful.
I wasn't in court for her testimony, but I did see her testify at the

Speaker 1 sentencing. And, you know, she was very sort of down-to-earth, matter-of-fact about it.
And also has an amazing sense of humor.

Speaker 1 In spite of what she said.

Speaker 1 She told that wink story, right?

Speaker 2 she had a great sense of humor

Speaker 1 yeah yeah yeah um and and she at the end of our story i think she says you know he's the loser you know the whole thing and she's like you know well he really is he's in life he's in prison for life yeah that's the definition of a loser um did the two women at the heart of this thing ever meet did they meet at the courthouse no they never met i mean they were they were there you know at the same time in the same building but they i they never met and uh that was why when we were doing this interview with Rachel, we were able to convey Betsy's message to her, which comes at the end of the interview.

Speaker 1 And Betsy was just like, you know, saying, I'm so sorry. And you were just, you know, I feel so horrible.

Speaker 1 And, and, and Rachel was really, she's just like, well, wow, that's a really nice lady to be saying those things. Yeah.
When we come back, we'll hear a clip from Andrea's interview with Betsy Wonkey.

Speaker 1 She shares what it was like to run the Warrior Princess Academy and how she helped others tap into a power they didn't know they had.

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Speaker 2 So I can give you an update on Betsy, please. Which is a happy ending for her.
She, I'm looking at a picture of Betsy and her husband.

Speaker 2 They are both into, you know, cows and horses and all that. And they, they got married in her dad's barn on May 24th.
She actually invited me to the wedding.

Speaker 1 wow um

Speaker 1 your cowboys your cowboy your cowboy boots

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 2 so yeah she um

Speaker 2 she said it was going to be a western wedding and uh she found her her you know very cool maybe her real prince charming so what is a warrior princess academy this business she was engaged in

Speaker 2 Self-defense.

Speaker 1 Yeah, she was

Speaker 1 helping women, you know, and sort of self-defense training.

Speaker 1 And I think in the clip, we showed her sort of helping Andrea with some tips about how to defend yourself if you're facing some sort of

Speaker 1 harassment or

Speaker 1 assault, really.

Speaker 1 She really sort of prides herself as

Speaker 1 a strong,

Speaker 1 assertive woman, which is what makes this ironic. And she's herself said,

Speaker 1 I can't believe that I'm like the... assertive person trying to teach other women how to face assault and then I get caught up in this crazy drama.
Capital I ironic.

Speaker 1 Let's take a listen to some of your conversation with Betsy.

Speaker 2 There is so much power in your body. It's just how do we use it? How do we harness it? And that's what we're trying to do.

Speaker 2 I had a young woman, I was doing a training for men and women, and I had this tiny little person.

Speaker 2 We were practicing kicks and punches, and she was doing a kick, and she wasn't giving it any effort at all. And she said, Well, I don't want to hurt you.

Speaker 1 And I said, You're good.

Speaker 2 She kicked so hard that she almost, the gloves, the pads almost came off my hands. She was just this little powerhouse and had doesn't matter your size.

Speaker 2 She never knew it. She was like, oh my God,

Speaker 2 I've never been able to do that. I said, yeah, you could always do it.
You just need to do it. So, and that's where the bags come in as well.

Speaker 2 Okay, I'm going to hold it. Now I want you to punch it.
I want you to punch here and I want you to do it several times in a row as hard as you can. Now, I want you to keep your momentum.

Speaker 2 Don't lean backwards. lean forward

Speaker 2 okay um keep your knees bent

Speaker 1 um

Speaker 2 and we're gonna go

Speaker 2 feel it

Speaker 2 there's a lot of power there yeah you i think you have more power than you think you do

Speaker 1 You go, you go, Andrea. That was great.
There's a lot of power there.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's funny. That's funny.

Speaker 1 Do you like work in the bag now?

Speaker 2 I think that was like a one and done.

Speaker 2 But definitely a good exercise for sure.

Speaker 1 I was reminded of that great show and tell you did with a person in one of your stories years before where she showed you how to get out of being handcuffed.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it was the duct tape. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, duct tape. That's what I mean.

Speaker 2 Yes, yes. I know we had tens of millions of views on that, but we learned a bunch of different things about how to get out of a bad situation.
But Betsy, you know, Betsy wants to help others, right?

Speaker 2 she's, she's a, Betsy was put in a bad situation, but she's a very strong woman.

Speaker 1 Well, Andrea has brought us up to the minute on where Betsy is. What do we know about Rachel? How is she doing and her son?

Speaker 1 As far as I know, I think she's doing well. She lives in Rhode Island.

Speaker 1 I think she may be in like an independent living place like that that's not too far from Wayne, her son, and her grandkids. So I think she gets to see them.

Speaker 1 And as far as I know, I think her health is okay despite

Speaker 1 the bullet that's still lodged in her brain. She still has a bullet lodged in the brain, can you imagine? Yeah, unbelievable.
Is there any deficit of her speech or movements or anything because of it?

Speaker 1 Not when we interviewed her. And I think it just sort of sits there, but she's fully

Speaker 1 cognitive and everything. So, yeah.

Speaker 1 So this guy wanted both women, and that's where this horror all comes from. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Where is he, Brad? Where is he being housed?

Speaker 1 Do you know?

Speaker 2 You know what?

Speaker 1 I don't have it in the,

Speaker 1 I don't know exactly where he is. I know

Speaker 1 he's in for life.

Speaker 1 One thing I thought was interesting that I pulled from some of my notes, I had forgotten that he was actually discharged from the military prior to all this

Speaker 1 under sort of murky circumstances.

Speaker 1 He was accused of sexual harassment in the military and a sort of scandal there and was forced to resign. And he denied all these allegations, but that later came up at the trial as well.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 his career was a little tainted by

Speaker 1 more than just this.

Speaker 1 And left the courthouse scene with a rant, huh?

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 I was there for the sentencing, and he was

Speaker 1 very incoherent, sort of a rant about, you know, the FBI is out to get me. And, you know, I'm a military guy, and I know all these secrets and, you know, this is a conspiracy.

Speaker 1 So it was a, it was, it was, you could really make heads or tails of what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 This is what it says right now. So he's serving the life sentence plus 20 years in federal prison.

Speaker 2 And he, according to federal prison records, he's currently incarcerated

Speaker 2 at the United States Penitentiary, Canaan, located in Waymart, Pennsylvania.

Speaker 2 And he had an appeal and his conviction and life sentence were upheld.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I feel sorry for the boy in this thing, the son.

Speaker 2 I mean, you always feel so bad for the children that get, you know, caught up in these horrible domestic situations. I mean,

Speaker 2 you know, this is at the hands of his dad and this is the ultimate domestic violence. And this, this son

Speaker 2 is caught in the middle of all of this, and it's awful.

Speaker 1 His dad shoots his mom.

Speaker 2 It's awful.

Speaker 2 But we see it time and time again where these, the children are, you know, the other victims in this.

Speaker 1 And he really looked up to his dad. I mean, he, I think he was, I think, in the military himself, but

Speaker 1 Wayne and

Speaker 1 he really sort of admired his dad as his role model. And then turns out this happens.
So.

Speaker 2 I also just got another text, if we're interested, from Betsy. The wedding was awesome.

Speaker 2 She's now Betsy Harrison of Harrison's Hunting. We've introduced more women into hunting.
Our guiding business has tripled in size and back on the board of our Safari Club International chapter.

Speaker 2 My real estate business is better than ever. We are touring the West as we speak.
It's beautiful. Definitely moving on.
I miss you too, but let's meet over a drink or coffee next time. Okay.

Speaker 2 And let me know when the podcast.

Speaker 1 will air. There you go.
In other social news from Andrea Cannon. Coming up, we'll answer a few of your questions from social media.

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Speaker 1 You know, guys, as always, we hear from our viewers in these stories, and I'd like to read out some of the comments that came into our mailbag. Andrea, here's, here's, here's Mike, H1990, saying,

Speaker 1 I love Rachel winking back at Greg. This is priceless.
Talking about that. That's where her in your interview.

Speaker 2 That's where her humor comes in, right? Like, you know, the wink and the strength and like all of it, right? It's, it's like, hey, man, who got the last laugh? You know,

Speaker 1 it was also sort of funny because

Speaker 1 in the hearing, she,

Speaker 1 I'm sorry, in the trial,

Speaker 1 Greg actually winked at Betsy. And that was Greg trying to wink, you know, to wink to sort of like, you know, get her

Speaker 1 to be on his side, his controlling move. And then Rachel's doing the reverse, you know, so it's sort of funny how they were each doing their own thing.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And Andrea, here's a character shout out for your friend Betsy. This is from at Katie Human.
At Katie the Human. Betsy is a queen, all in caps.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Betsy's a queen.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 I'll say Rachel's a queen, too, both of them.

Speaker 1 And guys, this is in the category of true weird romance at Deni writing. Greg's in prison and still begging Betsy to be together.
Yikes?

Speaker 1 Is there still a thread connecting them?

Speaker 2 Not that I'm aware of.

Speaker 1 There's no communication. Yeah, Greg is behind bars.

Speaker 2 That was a hard pass for Betsy on that one.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 That is over.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
As much as he tried to manipulate her and call her and keep her in his pocket. Andrea, Brad, hey, thanks for taking us down what's probably memory lane for you and Dateline stories.

Speaker 1 This was a very good one.

Speaker 1 I was compelled and tugged all the way through.

Speaker 1 And again, Andrea, I look for words to describe your perpetrator here.

Speaker 1 What a murderous scheme he got involved in.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 But that'll put a bow bow on Talking at Dateline for today. Thanks for listening and thanks to Andrea and Brad for joining us.

Speaker 1 If you have a case you want to cover or a question for the team, reach out anytime on social at DatelineNBC. Or you can leave us a voice memo in a DM or call and leave a voicemail at 212-413-5252.

Speaker 1 And one more thing, we're hitting the road. Join me and the whole Dateline team in Nashville on Sunday, September 28th for Dateline Live.

Speaker 1 It's a first of a kind of event featuring captivating on-stage panels, audience QAs, and a VIP reception. Tickets are now on sale at DatelineNBC.com/slash event.

Speaker 1 And you can also find a link in the description of this episode. We hope to see you there and see you on Fridays on Dateline on NBC.

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