A TikTok teen charged with murder. A defense team requests evidence testing. Plus, interrogation tactics.

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Speaker 5 Hey, weirdos, I'm Elena, and I'm Ash, and we are the hosts of Morbid Podcast.

Speaker 6 Each week we dive into the dark and fascinating world of true crime, spooky history, and the unexplained.

Speaker 5 From infamous killers and unsolved mysteries to haunted places and strange legends, we cover it all with research, empathy, humor, and a few creative expletives.

Speaker 3 It's smart, it's spooky, and it's just the right amount of weird.

Speaker 5 Two new episodes drop every week, and there's even a bonus once a month.

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Speaker 4 Yay! Woo!

Speaker 8 Hey, good morning.

Speaker 9 It's the start of another busy day here at 30 Rockefeller Center.

Speaker 8 Let's just jump right in.

Speaker 10 Our dateline team is catching up on breaking crime news.

Speaker 8 He took the stand, insisting throughout that he did not kill his wife because he is afraid of blood. It would become big news if she did get a new trial.

Speaker 8 We have interrogation footage of the actual guy taking a polygraph.

Speaker 9 Welcome to Dateline True Crime Weekly. I'm Andrea Canning.

Speaker 13 It's August 21st, and here's what's on our docket.

Speaker 16 13 years after a UNC student was found murdered in her bedroom, the man accused of killing her raises new questions about evidence collected at the crime scene.

Speaker 4 Police took a swab of a two-inch-long bloodstain from the scene, but according to the defense, it was never tested.

Speaker 9 In Dateline Roundup, the latest from the trial of Donna Adelson, Adelson, the Florida grandmother accused of masterminding a murder plot, and a courtroom surprise at the sentencing of former Major League Baseball pitcher Dan Seraffini.

Speaker 20 He got some new attorneys, and they then filed a motion asking for a new trial.

Speaker 19 Plus, you see them in most dateline episodes.

Speaker 10 Police interrogations.

Speaker 9 An expert gives us a scoop on how investigators prepare.

Speaker 22 You may have an ace in your pocket, so to speak, basically irrefutable evidence. You'll want to reveal that at last.

Speaker 9 But before all that, we're heading to a Georgia courtroom where a teenager who who posted on TikTok grieving her murdered mom and stepdad is now facing charges of killing them.

Speaker 9 On February 20th of this year, a teenager named Sarah Grace Patrick called 911.

Speaker 10 Her mother, Kristen Brock, and her stepfather had been shot dead in their home.

Speaker 26 From the very moment the 911 call was received, a relentless investigation began.

Speaker 28 That is the spokesperson for the Carroll County Sheriff's Office at a press conference last month.

Speaker 15 While investigators did their work, Sarah Grace took to social media posting photos of herself in tears, mascara running down her face.

Speaker 16 She also sent messages to people who post about crime asking for help publicizing her parents' case, which is why what happened next surprised so many.

Speaker 26 Today we can confirm that an arrest has been made in the case.

Speaker 26 Kristen Brock's 17-year-old daughter, Sarah Grace Patrick, has been taken into custody and charged with two counts of murder and two two counts of aggravated assault.

Speaker 13 On Tuesday, Sarah Grace went before a judge in Carrollton, Georgia for a bond hearing.

Speaker 9 And in that courtroom, the two sides of her family completely disagreed over whether or not she should be released before her trial.

Speaker 10 Rebecca Luftwich, managing editor of the local paper, The Times-Georgian, was there, and she joins us now to tell us what she heard.

Speaker 31 Hi, Rebecca. Thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 32 Thank you for having me.

Speaker 25 Kristen and James Brock, the victims.

Speaker 33 James goes by Jamie.

Speaker 25 They had a five-year-old daughter and also Sarah Grace.

Speaker 9 They all lived together.

Speaker 34 They did.

Speaker 13 What is the sheriff's office saying then about, you know, who found the bodies?

Speaker 34 Can you take us through that?

Speaker 32 Of course, they were very tight-lipped for a very long time because the investigation, I guess, was going like gangbusters behind the scenes.

Speaker 32 And my understanding is that the five-year-old went in, found her parents. told her sister, and Sarah Grace then called 911.

Speaker 35 Both Kristen and Jamie had been shot multiple times.

Speaker 25 This is according to the arrest warrant.

Speaker 32 That's correct. And at the hearing, the bond hearing, one of the relatives mentioned that both Kristen and James had been shot in the head at least once.

Speaker 33 This case has received national attention because Sarah Grace was posting on TikTok. There's photos of her with eye makeup running down her cheeks and then text saying, I can't do this without my mom.

Speaker 10 There's one where she's making a sad face, you know, saying this can't be real on the way to my parents' funeral.

Speaker 32 You don't want to judge somebody by the way they grieve.

Speaker 32 I would hate to have my grief picked apart some days.

Speaker 13 There's one post with the victim, the mom, Kristen, and her voices on it.

Speaker 32 But at the bottom, it has a GoFundMe link, which it just seemed a strange place to stick a GoFundMe link because it was a very sentimental and very sweet video.

Speaker 17 According to people behind some popular true crime accounts like allegedly, reportedly, and true crime mama, Sarah Grace was even reaching out to them.

Speaker 32 So it appears that about a month before Sarah Grace's arrest, she reached out to a TikToker who goes by allegedly reportedly to ask for help investigating her parents' open case.

Speaker 37 Y'all, this is Sarah Grace, and she messaged me back on June 3rd and just said, search up Brock case. She was asking for me to cover the case, and I did so.
I get requests like that all the time.

Speaker 37 So that is a screenshot of me covering it and where she said thank you. And as of today, July 8th, 2025, she was arrested.

Speaker 37 Why would you ask me to cover a case where you are going to get arrested for taking your parents' lives?

Speaker 25 So, what led to Sarah Grace's arrest?

Speaker 32 Well, they won't say.

Speaker 32 When Ashley Hulsey from the Carroll County Sheriff's Office, when she led the press conference, there was some mention of how a lot of it took place electronically and that they called in other agencies.

Speaker 32 She said there's a mountain of evidence. That is the exact phrase that she used.

Speaker 10 She's being charged as an adult, even though she's 17.

Speaker 35 She is.

Speaker 38 Sarah Grace's biological father, DJ Patrick, has spoken out about this. He has.

Speaker 32 And so has the grandfather.

Speaker 10 DJ told Newsweek, I know 100% of my heart that Sarah's innocent. She would never do this.

Speaker 10 And Sarah Grace's grandfather, her mom's dad, spoke to a local Fox station and Court TV and he said, quote, nothing puts the gun in her hand.

Speaker 13 They don't have the gun.

Speaker 32 That may be true, but I'm not sure that without seeing all of the evidence, but you could say that with any sort of authority. I don't blame him for saying that.

Speaker 32 I feel like he's going to defend that grandchild because I would, you would, we all would.

Speaker 39 Rebecca, other family members aren't as supportive as Sarah Grace's father and grandfather.

Speaker 40 Let's talk about this hearing that happened on Tuesday.

Speaker 39 Some of the family of Sarah Grace's stepfather testified.

Speaker 41 Every night I lie awake unable to sleep.

Speaker 41 Her family maintains that she is innocent.

Speaker 41 And given her manipulative behavior, I believe she may attempt to flee

Speaker 32 the one thing that came out that i think surprised me just a little bit was these people are genuinely scared of this girl they are afraid that she will hurt them if she gets out of jail if the defendant can kill her own parents in such a violent

Speaker 41 violent manner I fear for my own safety.

Speaker 10 Sarah Grace turned herself in, but has yet to enter a plea.

Speaker 23 Her defense attorney called a number of character witnesses on her behalf.

Speaker 13 Of course, they're trying to get her out

Speaker 13 before trial.

Speaker 32 Yes.

Speaker 32 They want her back where they can take care of her, is what they said. And she did have quite a few people from different areas of her life.

Speaker 32 She had a teenage friend that she's had since middle school and her mother.

Speaker 41 She is not a threat to anyone. She is deeply loved and supported by my family, by me, and her own family.
I truly believe she deserves a chance to be home, surrounded by those who care about her.

Speaker 32 They had the pastor of the church where they all attend or attended. And he's been going and seeing her and praying with her.

Speaker 32 That was a big thing, you know, that the church family would support her however they needed to. Yeah.

Speaker 25 I know there were a lot of people, you know, some had on t-shirts that read, I stand with Sarah Grace.

Speaker 33 Letters were written that she's a, you know, normal, typical teen, loved in her community.

Speaker 10 What did the judge ultimately decide after hearing both sides?

Speaker 32 The judge denied bail, denied bond.

Speaker 32 His reasoning was that the prosecutors had proved that she was a flight risk because the side of the family, they called it the Nolan side of the families, Kristen's maiden name, that they had the means to theoretically get her out of town and not bring her back.

Speaker 35 And I know that the judge mentioned specifically the state's argument that Sarah Grace might influence or manipulate witnesses.

Speaker 25 This is going to court next on September 22nd, and there's actually a trial date set.

Speaker 32 Yes. If there are no continuances, then the trial is supposed to start on January 5th.

Speaker 38 Yeah.

Speaker 16 So that is, I guess, what the judge called speedy justice.

Speaker 32 Right. That's exactly what he said.
And I do believe that part of that he said was out of a concern for her, that she's 17 years old in an adult prison and being isolated from the general population.

Speaker 38 Right, right.

Speaker 31 All right, Rebecca, thank you so much.

Speaker 33 What a disturbing story.

Speaker 4 Thank you.

Speaker 9 Coming up, the man accused of killing a UNC Chapel Hill student 13 years ago wants new testing of evidence from the crime scene.

Speaker 14 His defense says it could point to someone else.

Speaker 43 Hey, everybody, Ted Danson here to tell you about my podcast with my longtime friend and sometimes co-host Woody Harrelson.

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Speaker 29 September 6th, 2012 was a busy day in the life of UNC Chapel Hill student Faith Hedgepeth.

Speaker 12 The 19-year-old went to a rush event for a sorority she was hoping to join, put in some study time at the library, and that night went to a nightclub with her roommate.

Speaker 14 The next morning, she was found beaten to death in her bedroom.

Speaker 47 On her bed, there was a note that read, I'm not stupid, bitch, jealous.

Speaker 12 At first, investigators believed the note might be a clue that her killer was someone she knew.

Speaker 11 But nine years later, when they finally announced an arrest in the case, the accused man, Miguel Salguero Olivaros, seemed to have no connection to faith.

Speaker 47 He has been charged with first-degree murder as well as first-degree burglary, rape, and sexual offense. He has yet to enter a plea.

Speaker 16 Now, in a series of recent court filings, his defense team has asked for new testing of crime scene evidence to see if it can reveal who was really there that night.

Speaker 12 Dateline producer Mike Nardy is here to tell us more.

Speaker 13 Mike, thanks for coming back on the podcast.

Speaker 4 Thanks for having me, Andrea.

Speaker 34 Yeah, so to start, why don't you just tell us a little bit about who Faith was?

Speaker 4 She had Native American ancestry and she was part of the Halawa Saponi American Indian Tribe, which is based in North Carolina. She was a biology major at UNC Chapel Hill.

Speaker 4 Her loved ones described her as constantly smiling, someone who loved to joke, and she had dreams of being a doctor. So it was a huge shock, needless to say, for her family when this happened.
Yeah.

Speaker 10 So Mike, what did police initially think when they investigated this crime?

Speaker 4 Well, you touched upon it when you mentioned that note. They thought it was someone close to faith, and there was DNA left behind at the scene.

Speaker 4 It was a bloody scene, and they knew she'd been sexually assaulted. There was a wine bottle and a bottle of rum that they got DNA off of.

Speaker 10 So when we're talking about DNA, are we talking about Faith's DNA?

Speaker 18 Are we talking about unknown DNA?

Speaker 4 Unknown DNA. So they were thinking, this is our killer.
Find the owner of this DNA, find who it is. That's our killer.

Speaker 39 So let's talk about her roommate.

Speaker 10 She was the one who found Faith's body and called 911.

Speaker 17 What do we know about her roommate and their relationship?

Speaker 4 So her name is Karina Rosario, and they were close friends. They were really good friends.
They met as freshmen.

Speaker 4 And Faith had temporarily moved in with Karina before the start of the school year while she was waiting to move into her own apartment.

Speaker 9 Okay, so Karina told the police that she was at a club with Faith before she was killed.

Speaker 34 What does she say happened after the club when they came home?

Speaker 4 So Karina said they went back to their apartment, and then she says she got picked up by a friend around 4.30 in the morning, leaving Faith by herself. And that's the last time anyone saw Faith alive.

Speaker 4 Karina came back to the apartment, she said, around 11 a.m. And that's when she found Faith's body and called 911.

Speaker 17 According to a search warrant, Karina's former boyfriend quickly became a person of interest in the case.

Speaker 33 Why?

Speaker 4 That's right. Karina's ex-boyfriend is a man named Eric Jones.
And by all accounts, he did not like Faith.

Speaker 4 There were witnesses that said he actually said he was going to kill Faith if he and Karina did not get back together.

Speaker 4 And in the summer of 2012, Jones actually broke into the apartment that Karina was living in at the time. And Karina filed for a domestic violence protection order against Jones.

Speaker 4 But documents show that, you know, they looked at Jones, they took his DNA, they searched his car and his apartment. And most importantly, his DNA was not a match at the scene.

Speaker 4 Almost a decade later, when Olivares is finally arrested and charged with the murder, Eric Jones told our NBC affiliate, WRAL, I felt a huge burden off my chest and that he hoped Faith's family could get justice.

Speaker 2 Are you confident that you will not be charged?

Speaker 1 100%.

Speaker 1 100%.

Speaker 20 I'm not going to say I knew this day was going to come.

Speaker 4 I pray for it.

Speaker 13 So how did they land on Oliveris?

Speaker 4 And it came as a complete surprise to everyone. Certainly, law enforcement has not mentioned any connection between Oliveris and Faith.

Speaker 4 But the warrants show that investigators used ancestry technology to help identify him.

Speaker 4 He'd been charged with a DWI, and they took a sample of his DNA during that traffic stop, and they matched it to the DNA collected at the apartment and in the rape kit.

Speaker 4 You know, there's going to be a lot of expert testimony at the trial, so we'll see what the defense can say about that DNA evidence.

Speaker 10 His defense has recently filed several motions, and they argued that more testing needs to be done on evidence from the crime scene.

Speaker 4 Yeah, in the filing, they note that police took a swab of a two-inch-long bloodstain from the scene, but according to the defense's motion, it was never tested to see if it contained DNA from someone other than Faith.

Speaker 4 So according to the defense, the friend who picked up Karina from the apartment said he noticed blood on her finger when she got in the car and asked her about it.

Speaker 4 He said, Karina said she didn't know where it came from. The defense now wants to depose that friend, saying he's a critical witness.

Speaker 23 Has the defense might directly implicated Karina in this murder, or are they just trying to offer up alternate theories here?

Speaker 4 Yeah. No, the defense hasn't said explicitly in their motion that they think Karina was involved in the murder.
But what they are doing is calling the prosecution's theory into question.

Speaker 4 They seem to be implying that the blood on Karina's finger could have belonged to Faith. And if that's the case, that the murder could have happened while Karina was still in the apartment.

Speaker 4 Now, it's important to note that Karina has never been charged with a crime in this case. She's never been accused of wrongdoing.
She has not commented on the filing.

Speaker 10 Do we know what the next steps are when the next hearing is going to be in this?

Speaker 4 You know, know, there was supposed to be a hearing in October that has been canceled. So hopefully something will be scheduled soon and the case will continue to move forward.

Speaker 35 All right.

Speaker 33 Thank you so much, Mike, for bringing us this update.

Speaker 4 All right. Thanks for having me, Andrea.

Speaker 21 Up next, it's time for Dateline Roundup.

Speaker 9 We've got the latest courtroom drama in the trial of Florida grandmother Donna Adelson, and the sentencing of former Major League Baseball pitcher Dan Serafini is stopped in its tracks.

Speaker 24 Plus, an inside look at police interrogations and what tactics investigators use to get closer to the truth.

Speaker 5 Hey, weirdos, I'm Elena, and I'm Ash, and we are the host of Morbid Podcast.

Speaker 6 Each week, we dive into the dark and fascinating world of true crime, spooky history, and the unexplained.

Speaker 5 From infamous killers and unsolved mysteries to haunted places and strange legends, we cover it all with research, empathy, humor, and a few creative expletives.

Speaker 3 It's smart, it's spooky, and it's just the right amount of weird.

Speaker 5 Two new episodes drop every week, and there's even a bonus once a month.

Speaker 7 Find us wherever you listen to podcasts.

Speaker 4 Yay! Woo! Aye!

Speaker 45 A Mochi Moment from Sadie, who writes, I'm not crying, you're crying.

Speaker 45 This is what I said during my first appointment with my physician at Mochi, because I didn't have to convince him I needed a GLP-1. He understood, and I felt supported, not judged.

Speaker 45 I came for the weight loss and stayed for the empathy.

Speaker 38 Thanks, Sadie.

Speaker 45 I'm Myra Ammeth, founder of Mochi Health. To find your Mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com.

Speaker 46 Mochi members have access to licensed physicians and nutritionists and are compensated for their stories. Results may vary.

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Speaker 19 Welcome back.

Speaker 10 Joining me for this week's Roundup is Dateline producer Brad Davis. Hey, Brad.

Speaker 4 Hey, good to see you.

Speaker 25 For our first story, we are off to Tallahassee, Florida, where trial is finally getting started for Donna Adelson, the 75-year-old woman prosecutors say helped orchestrate a murder for hire plot to kill her former son-in-law, FSU law professor Dan Markell.

Speaker 9 She has pleaded not guilty to charges of first-degree murder, conspiracy, and solicitation.

Speaker 27 Brad, what is the latest there?

Speaker 20 Yeah, down here on Monday, it was something interesting.

Speaker 20 The day before her trial was to start, the judge held an emergency hearing to review a request from Donna's daughter, Wendy Adelson, who was married to Dan Markell.

Speaker 20 Donna's defense team had previously issued a subpoena to have Wendy testify, but Wendy asked the judge to quash the subpoena because it wouldn't provide her with immunity for her testimony.

Speaker 20 And in the hearing on Monday, the judge said, yes, the subpoena is quashed. So Wendy won't have to testify for the defense.

Speaker 27 Brad, will we hear from Wendy at all during the trial?

Speaker 20 This doesn't mean she won't testify. She She will be called by the state as a prosecution witness, and she will get what's called use immunity for that testimony.

Speaker 20 And the defense can question her on cross-examination if they like.

Speaker 13 Okay, so Donna's trial is officially underway. How does Donna seem?

Speaker 20 She, you know, looked sort of cowering with her lawyers, you know, sort of sitting quietly.

Speaker 20 She's wearing a sweater because it's really cold in that courtroom. I was cold.

Speaker 4 So I don't blame her.

Speaker 20 So it'll be interesting to see, you know, how everyone perceives her as this goes on.

Speaker 42 And Brad, we'll continue to talk to you throughout the trial.

Speaker 10 For our next story, we're headed to Auburn, California for news in the case of Dan Serafini.

Speaker 9 He is the former Major League Baseball player who was found guilty in July of shooting his in-laws, Gary Spohr and Wendy Wood. Gary was killed in the attack.

Speaker 13 And Brad, what is happening there with that sentencing?

Speaker 20 Well, in the lead up to his scheduled sentencing on Monday, Serafini filed some big motions.

Speaker 20 He got some new attorneys, and they then filed a motion asking for a new trial on the basis of juror misconduct.

Speaker 20 With that, they pointed to an interview three jurors did with our NBC affiliate, KCRA, in the days after the trial ended.

Speaker 10 And we have some of that interview.

Speaker 7 I couldn't find a single piece of evidence that made me stop and go, oh, maybe it wasn't him.

Speaker 48 I was the one who had to sign the verdict forms

Speaker 48 and there was a shaky moment.

Speaker 4 It's real.

Speaker 15 So, the defense didn't explain in their filing exactly how those interviews proved juror misconduct took place.

Speaker 10 And in a response to those filings, the district attorney pointed out it's perfectly legal for jurors to do interviews after a trial.

Speaker 16 But even so, the judge made a surprising ruling, right, Brad?

Speaker 20 Yeah, on Monday, the judge granted Serafini's motion to pursue a new trial.

Speaker 49 I recognize the

Speaker 49 difficulty of all of you who have come to see the proceedings, but this is how it needs to operate. We need to ensure for both sides to process.

Speaker 20 So, Serafini wasn't sentenced as planned. There's going to be a hearing in late October for the judge to hear arguments about a possible new trial.

Speaker 20 And if the judge grants that motion, Serafini's case will go back to court. If the judge denies it, he'll be sentenced immediately.

Speaker 13 What was the response in court to that ruling?

Speaker 20 The victim's older daughter, Adrienne Spohr, she was silent, but she did look disappointed.

Speaker 20 Meanwhile, her sister, Dan's wife, Erin Spohr, who testified in his defense at trial, she's filed for divorce from him and was not present at the sentencing.

Speaker 10 And for our final story, Brad, we're headed to Connecticut for an update in a case we've covered extensively here at Dateline, the murdered mom of five, Jennifer Dulos.

Speaker 10 She disappeared in May of 2019 while in the throes of a custody battle with her estranged husband, Fotis Dulos.

Speaker 29 Fotis was arrested for Jennifer's suspected murder, but he died by suicide while awaiting trial.

Speaker 14 This news is about Fotis' girlfriend at the time, Michelle Troconis.

Speaker 20 That's right. Michelle Traconis was found guilty last year of conspiring to murder Jennifer Dulos.

Speaker 20 She's currently serving a 14 and a half year sentence for that, but she's been working to appeal her conviction, and last week, a judge issued a big ruling in that effort.

Speaker 22 What was the ruling?

Speaker 20 Well, Traconis has been arguing since last September that her former attorney provided ineffective counsel.

Speaker 20 She She said he didn't properly prepare her before she spoke to police when they were looking for Jennifer Dulos. Triconas says that is enough to warrant her conviction being vacated.

Speaker 20 That previous attorney of hers, Andrew Bowman, has denied the accusations. But a judge last week ruled that Traconis' petition could move forward to a trial in January.

Speaker 40 So if a jury finds that there was ineffective representation, Michelle Traconis could possibly get her conviction overturned, right?

Speaker 4 That's right.

Speaker 23 Okay.

Speaker 10 Well, we will make sure to check back in and see where all that goes. Thanks for all these updates, Brad.

Speaker 4 Sure. Thanks, Andrea.

Speaker 9 Police interviews are at the heart of nearly every dateline episode and can be a make-or-break part of any investigation.

Speaker 10 For our last story, we wanted to find out more about what methods investigators rely on to extract information from a suspect, even when they don't want to talk.

Speaker 9 Our next guest, Kristen Barnett, spent hundreds of hours in the interview room during her time with the U.S.

Speaker 21 Air Force Office of Special Investigations.

Speaker 9 And today, she's going to give us a primer on the techniques she used to get closer to the truth.

Speaker 40 Welcome, Kristen.

Speaker 22 Thank you so much, Andrea.

Speaker 13 So let's start from the top.

Speaker 9 What exactly is the goal of an interrogation?

Speaker 22 The goal of an interrogation is actually not just to get a confession. You want to get to the facts of what happened.
So what you're really doing is trying to find the truth of your entire case.

Speaker 10 And you have all different kinds of personalities coming in, right? You have...

Speaker 40 the ones that are tough and won't say anything and just are angry to be there.

Speaker 13 And then you have probably ones that don't stop talking.

Speaker 22 Absolutely. And that's why I always like doing a baseline interview first.

Speaker 22 That's where you'll sort of be able to analyze their behavior and see what kind of person they are, see how they respond to questions, see how they respond to your attempts at rapport building.

Speaker 22 From there, you can kind of adjust and even maybe sort of call it for the day, get more evidence if your investigation is still at that point, and then come back later with a much more thorough interview.

Speaker 40 A question I often ask detectives before an interrogation even happens is, what was your strategy going in with the suspect or the person of interest?

Speaker 22 One of the methods that I always found particularly helpful was going in with a game plan to present almost a justification for why they did what they did.

Speaker 22 And with certain cases, this is easier than others.

Speaker 22 So for example, if they pass counterfeit checks, and say if they have kids going into college, you can say it kind of makes sense why you might want to pass these counterfeit checks because you need to pay for your kids' college tuition.

Speaker 22 Again, that's just an example. And most of them are, frankly,

Speaker 22 sort of people pleasers, sort of someone that wants to give investigators and interrogators the information they're looking for.

Speaker 22 Now, if you do have a subject who's different from that and is sort of confrontational, that's where you can go with a more confrontational approach yourself.

Speaker 19 And is there, do you think about what evidence you

Speaker 23 want to reveal during that interrogation?

Speaker 42 I mean, sometimes you can be showing too many cards.

Speaker 22 Absolutely. So you may have an ace in your pocket, so to speak, with one piece of evidence, say it's CCTV footage of the subject going into the bank and coming out with a bag of money.

Speaker 22 Obviously, it won't be that obvious, but basically irrefutable evidence. You'll want to reveal that probably last.

Speaker 27 Kristen, you brought up, you know, building that rapport with the person you're interrogating.

Speaker 10 What else can you do to kind of disarm that person, I guess?

Speaker 22 So the interview location is really important as well.

Speaker 22 So for victim interviews, local police departments, state, federal agencies, for the most part, all have this ability to hold the victim interview in what we would call, at least anyway, in the military, a soft room.

Speaker 22 So it's a room that's more warmly lit, has couches, tissue boxes, water, and the couches and chairs are in a less aggressive position as opposed to a subject interview room where the hardback chairs are facing each other, they're close, so you're more in their space.

Speaker 22 So the layout of the room and how things are positioned actually makes a big difference in throwing someone off balance. Yeah.

Speaker 38 The white hot spotlight.

Speaker 32 Right, exactly.

Speaker 13 Exactly.

Speaker 30 What happens if they just won't crack?

Speaker 22 That's where you want to be strategic about the breaks you take. So you may want to leave the room for up to an hour almost.

Speaker 22 You can have them sit there and wait in terms of a subject and become more and more uncomfortable, be more and more in their own head, and maybe think about what's going on here and things at stake.

Speaker 27 What do you think the key is?

Speaker 10 And I know every case is different, but to getting a confession.

Speaker 22 I think that really comes back down to that relationship you've established with the person sitting across from you. Keep them talking.

Speaker 36 Yeah, I mean, I think sometimes people just want to get it off their chest.

Speaker 22 Exactly.

Speaker 36 And then on the flip side of that, any lawyer is going to tell you to keep your mouth shut if you're in an interrogation room.

Speaker 22 Right. Yes.
That's pretty much tip number one. If you're called to be questioned by law enforcement in a subject interrogation matter,

Speaker 22 probably best to retain a lawyer.

Speaker 10 Kristen, yeah, thank you so much for giving us this glimpse into what goes on in the interview interview room.

Speaker 22 Absolutely, no problem.

Speaker 27 That's it for this episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly.

Speaker 17 My friend and colleague, Blaine Alexander, will be here next week.

Speaker 9 And coming up this Friday on Dateline, Blaine has a classic episode.

Speaker 17 After a woman is found dead in a house fire, investigators quickly learn the flames didn't kill her.

Speaker 9 She was murdered. But the identity of her killer remains a mystery for 30 years until a witness makes a shocking confession.

Speaker 2 That's when I said, what's going on?

Speaker 4 And she

Speaker 2 not tell me.

Speaker 10 Watch Justice for Joy this Friday at 9-8 Central. And one last thing before we go, we wanted to remind you that Dateline is hitting the road next month, and we'd love for you to join us.

Speaker 19 On Sunday, September 28th, the whole team will be in Nashville for Dateline Live.

Speaker 9 It's a first-of-a-kind event featuring on-stage panels, audience QAs, and a VIP reception.

Speaker 10 Tickets are on sale now at datelinenbc.com forward slash event. You can also find a link in the description of this episode.
Thanks for listening.

Speaker 10 Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Franny Kelly and Katie Ferguson.

Speaker 24 Our associate producers are Carson Cummins and Caroline Casey.

Speaker 9 Our senior producer is Liz Brown Kuriloff.

Speaker 10 Production and fact-checking help by Mackenzie Mattwick and Terry Dickerson.

Speaker 9 Veronica Mazeka is our digital producer.

Speaker 13 Rick Kwan is our sound designer.

Speaker 9 Original music by Jesse McGinty.

Speaker 33 Bryson Barnes is head of audio production.

Speaker 9 Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Dateline.

Speaker 8 All right, anything else?

Speaker 1 Okay, thank you.

Speaker 2 Hey, this is Jeff Lewis from Radio Andy. Live and uncensored, catch me talking with my friends about my latest obsessions, relationship issues, and bodily ailments.

Speaker 2 With that kind of drama that seems to follow me, you never know what's going to happen.

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