The Bridge

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Speaker 2 Tonight on Dave Live.

Speaker 5 I knew he was going to be out at the lake. I'm calling and we're getting nothing.

Speaker 6 Days and days putting out flyers and just searching.

Speaker 5 That's all I can think about is I want James.

Speaker 7 I'm pretty confident we've got blood spatter on the side window.

Speaker 8 The last person to see him alive, that's the key.

Speaker 9 You have not told me that truth since you walked in that door.

Speaker 10 He would post on Facebook different personas, homicidal highway.

Speaker 11 He will morph to survive. Why is he in a Bible college?

Speaker 7 They got a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Speaker 12 So he's talking about shooting people before.

Speaker 13 He's made it sound like that.

Speaker 5 He's now seeing a young woman.

Speaker 14 That terrifies me.

Speaker 15 We did not even have a body in the case. The evidence was not overwhelming.

Speaker 6 You literally cannot stop thinking about it.

Speaker 2 A missing son, a tangled mystery, and a desperate mother on a mission.

Speaker 4 What keeps you going on these searches?

Speaker 5 My promise.

Speaker 5 It's all I got left to give him.

Speaker 5 And he's worth every mile.

Speaker 5 I'm Lester Holt, and this is Daideline.

Speaker 2 Here's Andrea Canning with The Bridge.

Speaker 16 What we're going to be doing is a foot search on each side of the banks of the river. What you're looking for is any sign of any remains that may be left.
Don't leave any stone unturned.

Speaker 4 It was a long shot.

Speaker 4 A Hail Mary.

Speaker 5 One more look.

Speaker 4 Spring 2021.

Speaker 4 Search teams scoured the thick forest some 40 miles from Fayetteville, North Carolina.

Speaker 17 It's going to be difficult, but it's not impossible. Everything's possible.

Speaker 4 Among them, a devoted mother, relentless in the face of a shattering loss.

Speaker 4 She never stopped searching or believing the mystery could be solved.

Speaker 4 You have to be really careful when you pull it out. A mystery dating back seven long years when her son simply vanished.

Speaker 5 I love him.

Speaker 5 I promised him. And I'm here till

Speaker 5 we find him.

Speaker 4 Now, all this time later, could she and the others finally do it?

Speaker 18 Take a picture of that.

Speaker 4 And end the nightmare that's haunted his family for so long.

Speaker 6 I pray it's part of my son.

Speaker 6 If it is, long time coming.

Speaker 4 It all started on a hot and humid afternoon in August 2014, when a weekend of fun awaited James Chambers. It was Friday, payday, James's getaway day.

Speaker 4 He just wrapped a busy week working for his dad Pete's construction company.

Speaker 6 On the weekends, he went down to Lake Layman in Wallace, North Carolina, and was on lifeguard down there. That's where he was supposed to be headed that night.

Speaker 4 Had he always kind of had a love of swimming in the waters? Yes, loved it.

Speaker 6 And fishing.

Speaker 7 Yeah, he loved it.

Speaker 4 And everybody seemed to love James, says his mom, Rachel Wellhauser.

Speaker 5 He's 28. He's single.
There's a couple of girls he's talking to.

Speaker 5 He's figuring out which direction he's going.

Speaker 4 He was good looking. He was popular.
He was outgoing.

Speaker 5 Yes.

Speaker 5 He loved the women.

Speaker 4 A real people person remembers his close friend and roommate, Brandy Chigrew.

Speaker 19 James was smart. He was very witty.
He was caring. He cared about people.

Speaker 4 James's parents were divorced, but he remained close with both and always kept in touch. Pete Chambers says his son was someone you could count on.

Speaker 6 If he told you he was going to be there, he'd be there.

Speaker 4 Did you always kind of know when he was coming and going? Always.

Speaker 6 He would call, text, he would do something to let me know where he was at.

Speaker 4 In fact, James spoke to his mom the day before he was supposed to leave for the lake. Do you remember how you ended the call?

Speaker 4 Like always.

Speaker 5 I love you, but miss you.

Speaker 4 Did you hear from him again over text?

Speaker 4 No.

Speaker 4 Neither did his roommate, Brandy, who said that by Sunday, James hadn't returned home.

Speaker 19 We all thought that James was off doing James things. He's found a girl he likes, and he's just holed up somewhere for a few days and then he'll pop back up.

Speaker 4 But as a new week began, still no James. Monday morning he's supposed to be at work.
Yep. Doesn't show.

Speaker 11 Doesn't show. What's your first thought?

Speaker 6 No show. I tried calling him, texting him, never anything about him.
So then I said, well, I'll just let it go for a day or so. And then Tuesday shows up, he's not here.

Speaker 4 Rachel was now in a panic.

Speaker 5 I started blowing up his phone. I left a message.
Marco.

Speaker 4 Marco?

Speaker 4 That was her family's emergency code word.

Speaker 5 My daughter and my son and my husband and myself always knew we had to have a safety word to contact immediately. James didn't.

Speaker 4 That must have spoke volumes to you.

Speaker 5 I was screaming inside.

Speaker 5 Five minutes, ten minutes, an hour goes away. James has always, immediately responded to anything.

Speaker 4 By now, James's roommate Brandy was also worried and called his manager at the lake.

Speaker 19 The lake said he never showed up. I was kind of gobsmacked at that moment.
I did. I was like, what do you mean he didn't show up? I was like, no, he didn't show up.

Speaker 19 So at that point, it was kind of a deer in the headlights moment.

Speaker 4 Especially when Brandy realized what James had left behind.

Speaker 19 His driver's license, his dog. Well, at that point, that was when it said, hey, something's not right.

Speaker 4 Maybe James had suddenly changed plans about leaving for the lake.

Speaker 4 If so, he didn't tell Rachel or anyone else for that matter.

Speaker 5 I'm an absolute basket case

Speaker 5 because I know James.

Speaker 4 Were you holding out any hope that maybe he's been in an accident? Maybe he's not hurting him.

Speaker 5 I was hoping that the vehicle was off on an embankment or somewhere. Somewhere where I could find him.

Speaker 5 And we hit the roads.

Speaker 4 Crisscrossing every back road in the county.

Speaker 4 Little did Rachel realize her journey to find her son was just beginning and would take her tens of thousands of miles to places she could have never imagined.

Speaker 20 Coming up.

Speaker 2 What had happened to James?

Speaker 15 His parents take the next step.

Speaker 4 Kind of scary going to the police because you're almost sort of acknowledging

Speaker 4 that this could be really bad.

Speaker 6 Yep, that's all I want to know is where he was at.

Speaker 2 Would it be another dead end?

Speaker 4 Just not taking you seriously enough. Is that how you felt? Yes.
Like, how do you know he's not off on a trip somewhere?

Speaker 5 Yes. But I was screaming, I know my son.

Speaker 4 Where was James Chambers? The young man who kept in constant contact with his family had simply disappeared.

Speaker 5 I start getting in touch with different ones of his friends. No one is seeing.
Jessica, his sister, she is posting all over Facebook, trying to find where he's at.

Speaker 4 She's calling.

Speaker 5 I'm calling. And we're getting nothing.

Speaker 4 Five days passed. With hope fading that James would somehow show up.
His father Pete made the one call everyone dreaded.

Speaker 6 Something's not right. I need to call and make a police report.

Speaker 4 Kind of scary going to the police, too, because you're almost sort of acknowledging

Speaker 4 that this could be really bad. Yep.

Speaker 6 All I want to know is where he was at.

Speaker 4 The Fayetteville Police Department launched a missing person investigation. Pretty routine, but it was not routine for Rachel.

Speaker 4 Years earlier, she'd made a promise to James and was determined to keep it.

Speaker 5 I have a meeting. Pete has a meeting.
We're all meeting with the police. I think we're driving the police crazy.

Speaker 4 Like most missing person cases, police believe James would eventually turn up. Just not taking you seriously enough.
Is that how you felt?

Speaker 5 Yes.

Speaker 4 Like, how do you know he's not off on a trip somewhere?

Speaker 5 Yes. But I was screaming, I know my son.

Speaker 4 This wasn't the first time Rachel had felt so helpless. Six years earlier, she lost her younger son Michael to muscular dystrophy.

Speaker 4 Now, the prospect that James could also be gone was becoming a painful reality.

Speaker 5 I know when that word Marco came out and it did not come back,

Speaker 5 and there had been no report of an accident,

Speaker 5 I knew my son was not with me anymore.

Speaker 4 Two weeks passed.

Speaker 4 Still, no sign of James anywhere.

Speaker 4 So the missing persons unit turned the case over to the homicide division and veteran detective Mike Ballard.

Speaker 21 This is like he fell off the face of the earth.

Speaker 8 Based on my experience, we weren't going to find Mr. Chambers alive.

Speaker 4 You thought that

Speaker 4 very quickly after you got the case? Yep.

Speaker 8 When we found out there was no contact with family, I didn't think he would be found alive.

Speaker 4 Ballard kept that to himself as he started interviewing James' inner circle, quickly learning about the last day anyone saw him alive.

Speaker 8 Chambers went to work that day. The roommates took him to work, and Howard brought him home.

Speaker 4 Howard, as Detective Balor discovered, was Howard Ashelman,

Speaker 4 a fun-loving 21-year-old coworker of James's, hired by Pete.

Speaker 6 He was a nice young boy. He was polite, respectful.

Speaker 4 This was a good employee.

Speaker 7 Yeah, he was.

Speaker 6 He worked out pretty good.

Speaker 4 Howard lived in this country house with an older couple named the Bensons, who knew his family and helped him get a job with Pete.

Speaker 4 In fact, Pete had asked Howard for a favor the day his son disappeared.

Speaker 6 I said, All right, Howard, do you mind taking James home? He's no, I have no problem.

Speaker 4 So, Detective Ballard wanted to learn more about Howard. Raised by a religious family in Illinois, Howard later moved to North Carolina.

Speaker 4 Turns out he had been interviewed by the missing persons unit several days earlier. So Ballard studied the tape as Howard discussed his relationship with James.

Speaker 22 Did you guys ever hang out after work?

Speaker 5 Yes, ma'am.

Speaker 24 How was that?

Speaker 5 Not bad.

Speaker 4 Howard was soft-spoken, polite, and seemed eager to help.

Speaker 24 You guys left work. Tell me what happened.

Speaker 5 Well, we went and I stopped at the ABC store. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 24 How was work that day? Was everything good?

Speaker 5 Everything was great.

Speaker 4 Howard recalled how he took James to buy liquor, then went to James's house where they had some drinks.

Speaker 4 Howard said he left before it got dark. So this is the last sighting by anybody of James.

Speaker 8 All contact with family, social media, he disappeared from everything.

Speaker 6 Everything.

Speaker 4 I went home. Howard then detailed what he did the rest of the evening.

Speaker 5 When I left him, I went straight home.

Speaker 5 Then the neighbors were having a barbecue across the street, so I stopped in there.

Speaker 24 Who was all at the barbecue?

Speaker 24 The people who live there. Just them.
Some friends.

Speaker 4 Surveillance video confirmed Howard's account of being with James Chambers that afternoon. But what happened after he dropped James off remained a mystery.

Speaker 4 Given their late start, homicide detectives were now playing catch-up, and it would cost them.

Speaker 8 We done lost a tremendous amount of time. We was behind the eight ball.

Speaker 4 But sitting just a mile from the police station was a strange but significant clue.

Speaker 4 If they could still find it.

Speaker 20 Coming up.

Speaker 10 I could just almost hear the desperation in her post.

Speaker 2 A stranger comes to a mother's rescue.

Speaker 4 She's like your guardian angel.

Speaker 5 Yes.

Speaker 2 When Dateline continues.

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Speaker 4 Fayetteville police were chasing every lead, checking locations, interviewing virtually anybody who knew James Chambers,

Speaker 4 including his roommate, Brandy Shagrew.

Speaker 4 We don't know where he is, we haven't heard anything from him.

Speaker 4 James's mom, Rachel, and sister Jessica feared the worst, so they posted an urgent message on Facebook pleading for help. It was seen by people all over the country.

Speaker 5 A lot of people saying they were praying for us and that meant so much.

Speaker 5 Someone is praying for your son to come home.

Speaker 4 That Facebook message just happened to catch the eye of a woman named Fran Funderberg.

Speaker 10 I could just almost hear the desperation in her post, as though I were hearing her voice to say, someone please just help us find James.

Speaker 4 Fran was a longtime volunteer with Class Kids, an organization that assists families whose children are missing or exploited.

Speaker 4 It was founded after the disappearance of Polly Class in 1993, a tragic story that captured worldwide attention.

Speaker 21 Police are searching for any sign of 12-year-old Polly Class.

Speaker 4 Fran reached out to James's family, then drove 90 minutes to Rachel's house.

Speaker 5 When I opened the door and she said, I'm with class kids and we are here to help you. Felt like a lifeline.

Speaker 4 You needed that at that moment.

Speaker 5 Oh yeah, because I was falling apart.

Speaker 10 One of the first things that I said to Rachel is,

Speaker 10 you, from this moment forward, you are the voice for your child.

Speaker 4 Fran immediately put a plan into place and gave Rachel a reality check on what to expect.

Speaker 5 This may not happen tomorrow and this may take years.

Speaker 5 Without her guidance, there is no way I'd have been prepared for this journey.

Speaker 4 She's like your guardian angel.

Speaker 5 Yes.

Speaker 4 Fran and Rachel circulated thousands of flyers and canvassed countless neighborhoods as search teams scoured the forests surrounding Fayetteville.

Speaker 6 We walked days and days putting out flyers and just searching anywhere we thought he might be.

Speaker 5 But nothing. Nothing.

Speaker 6 Nothing at all.

Speaker 4 It was around this time that Pete told Fran about Howard Ashelman.

Speaker 4 He had a hunch Howard might know more than he was letting on and suggested that Fran, who had experience with these types of cases, talk to Howard. So they met at this restaurant.

Speaker 4 What were your first impressions?

Speaker 10 Oh, he was charming. He was very cordial, very polite.
We wanted to understand what his last encounter with James was.

Speaker 4 Once again, Howard gave the same story he told the missing persons unit. But to Fran, the way he answered her questions was a little strange.

Speaker 10 Sometimes he's very forthcoming, and other times there's a long pause, as though he's thinking of his answer.

Speaker 10 So that did make us concerned about how truthful he was actually being.

Speaker 4 Did you ever ask him, did you have anything to do with James' disappearance?

Speaker 10 Absolutely.

Speaker 4 What did he say? No.

Speaker 4 So they wrapped up the meeting, which ended as warmly as it started.

Speaker 10 When he left, we embraced.

Speaker 10 And I said, hang in there. When the police come to you, cooperate, and they'll be done with you.

Speaker 4 But detectives weren't done with him, especially after they checked out something odd Howard said during his police interview. It was about his truck, the one he gave James a ride home in.

Speaker 24 What happened to the vehicle?

Speaker 5 My vehicle.

Speaker 5 I sold it already.

Speaker 4 Not only sold it, Howard said he sold it to a scrapyard of all places.

Speaker 4 Sure enough, detectives found surveillance video that showed his truck being towed into the yard just five days after James disappeared.

Speaker 42 What was wrong with your truck?

Speaker 5 I blew it up.

Speaker 4 Blew it up, doing donuts and burning rubber on the road for fun.

Speaker 4 Howard said it wrecked the engine, so he scrapped the truck. All of which seemed very strange to Detective Mike Ballard.

Speaker 8 Come on, would you scrap a truck?

Speaker 15 If the engine locks up, you replace an engine.

Speaker 8 Once they crush, and it's gone.

Speaker 15 It just, it didn't make sense.

Speaker 4 But to Pete Chambers, it was starting to make sense. Pete remembered confronting Howard at work a few days after James disappeared.
The very next day, Howard sold the truck. And...

Speaker 6 He never showed back up for work.

Speaker 5 That's odd.

Speaker 6 Yeah, very odd.

Speaker 4 Odd, yes, but incriminating? Not really.

Speaker 4 Detectives had nothing solid linking Howard to James's disappearance. But little did anyone know that a stunning list of new names would soon surface, leading to a prime suspect.

Speaker 20 Coming up,

Speaker 2 someone knew much more than they were saying.

Speaker 15 He was with Howard Ashelman on the evening that James Chambers went missing.

Speaker 2 But he didn't want to talk to police.

Speaker 8 He says, not without a warrant.

Speaker 4 So something's up with him.

Speaker 5 Something's up with him.

Speaker 4 Fall 2014 was approaching in Fayetteville. James Chambers had been missing for over a month.

Speaker 4 And while the weather was cooling, detectives and district attorney Billy West were feeling heat from the family.

Speaker 15 At this point, we did not even have a body in the case. We didn't know if it was a missing persons case or a homicide case.
And all we had were some stories from Howard Ashelman that did not add up.

Speaker 4 So detectives brought him in for yet another interview. Howard told basically the same story, but he did add a few intriguing new details.

Speaker 9 When you left James' house, where did you go?

Speaker 8 Home.

Speaker 2 Where were you at for the whole evening?

Speaker 43 I was at the house and my friends across the street.

Speaker 4 Except detectives had checked Howard's cell phone records, and they showed he was not exactly where he said he was.

Speaker 9 Your cell phone was pinging at this place for almost two hours.

Speaker 9 Okay, so that means you're within this three-mile radius. That means you're not at home.

Speaker 5 I think I can explain it.

Speaker 9 Okay, well, explain it to me.

Speaker 43 Reno's house is in here somewhere.

Speaker 16 Okay?

Speaker 7 And he had my phone on him when he went back home.

Speaker 4 Who was Reno? And why would he have Howard's phone for two hours? Detectives learned his full name was Reno Parks and that he sometimes hung out with Howard.

Speaker 15 We didn't know a whole lot about him, but what really stood out was that he was with Howard Ashelman on the evening that James Chambers witnessing.

Speaker 43 Why was there with him?

Speaker 4 Then Howard admitted something else.

Speaker 4 He was with Reno Parks after that barbecue across the street. He said Reno needed to treat a cut on his finger.
So Howard went to the hospital with him around 3 a.m.

Speaker 4 As his story kept growing, so did detectives' suspicions.

Speaker 9 Howard,

Speaker 9 this is your hour. I bring you in right now to tell me the truth.
You have not told me that truth since you walked in that door. Yes, sir.
No, you have not.

Speaker 9 That's the only thing I want from you today, Howard. It's the truth.

Speaker 43 I'm sorry, I mean, some of the some of this stuff, it's not like it happened yesterday.

Speaker 4 For the rest of the interview, Howard didn't offer much more, but he did give detectives and the DA a new lead, Reno Parks.

Speaker 15 Reno spent quite a bit of time with Howard Ashelman. They socialized together.
I think there maybe was some criminal record there.

Speaker 4 Reno Parks was now out on parole, but he was hard to track down. So Detective Ballard did a little research on when Parks would be at the probation office and paid him a surprise visit.

Speaker 8 He just lost all color in his face when he seen us walk in because he's been ignoring us and avoiding us. And we asked him if he would talk to us.
He's just not without a warrant.

Speaker 4 So something's up with him, you know.

Speaker 8 Something's up with Reno Parks. We felt like Reno Parks at this time knew something or had something to do with it.

Speaker 4 With Reno and Howard having clammed up, Rachel and Fran moved ahead with their own online investigation, hoping to learn more about who Howard Ashelman really was.

Speaker 5 I knew I was piecing together the personality of the person that was with my son last.

Speaker 5 We started watching.

Speaker 4 Watching Howard by watching his Facebook page.

Speaker 10 I started to learn a lot about him. I was consumed by that.
When you work on social media, it's like a spider trail. One person leads to another.
And Rachel was doing the same thing.

Speaker 5 If I was awake, I was on social media.

Speaker 4 It kind of takes on a life of its own.

Speaker 5 It snowballs. You think you're looking at one person.

Speaker 5 But if you go from one person into their friends and you start tagging from friend to friend and you see the list there of names, that's how I found 12 Howards.

Speaker 4 Did you get that? 12 different Howards. 12 unique Facebook accounts, according to Fran and Rachel, each with its own persona.

Speaker 5 It It started out where he was doing a thuggish look and then he transformed over to a intellectual college look. But all along he's going under 12 different names.

Speaker 10 Howard Ashelman, he was Adrian Manson.

Speaker 4 Manson.

Speaker 10 There were just a myriad of different names and personas and photos that he would post on Facebook.

Speaker 4 And they also found one more rather chilling reference to Howard.

Speaker 5 Homicidal Howie.

Speaker 4 He's calling himself that.

Speaker 5 Yes.

Speaker 5 And Manson. These are very, very disturbing pages.

Speaker 4 Even more disturbing were some of the things Fran and Rachel believed Howard and his friends were sharing on Facebook. You want to read this one?

Speaker 10 This is one of the earlier posts. I never knew much about people until I took one apart just to see how it worked.

Speaker 10 That's pretty daunting.

Speaker 4 This really became a job for you two, just scrolling and searching and looking for clues.

Speaker 5 Anything, just to try to find James.

Speaker 4 Some of the posts were bizarre, ranging from cannibalism to burning things.

Speaker 4 Fran also said there were references to violence and weapons.

Speaker 10 This is a post by Howard using his pseudo name. He says, you might shoot fast, but I shoot faster.
Bust your

Speaker 10 ass like a big contractor.

Speaker 4 It was hard to make sense of what Howard was up to or why.

Speaker 4 Fran and Rachel wondered if they were just attention-seeking posts from a 20-something kid, or maybe they were cryptic clues about what happened to James, like Howard's exchanges with his Facebook friends.

Speaker 5 Sleeping with the fishes?

Speaker 4 His friend posted that?

Speaker 5 We don't do drive-bys, We do walk-ups.

Speaker 5 Howard responded, you already know.

Speaker 4 And in your mind, are you connecting this to James?

Speaker 5 Yes.

Speaker 4 They turned the posts over to police, and even though detectives also believed they came from Howard, there wasn't much they could do with them.

Speaker 10 You can't arrest someone based on that Facebook post.

Speaker 10 It's not evidence.

Speaker 4 So the case sat on the shelf. Months passed.

Speaker 4 Then it was Christmas. The first Christmas without James.

Speaker 4 How are you coping?

Speaker 5 I'm not. I'm just desperate.
I want James. And that's all I can think about: I want James.

Speaker 4 But the new year would bring stunning new leads. And a new investigator.

Speaker 5 Rika find.

Speaker 4 Who you just might remember from Dateline.

Speaker 6 Smith something up here.

Speaker 2 Coming up, a local legend hits the jackpot.

Speaker 7 We start inspecting it, and sure enough, we've got blood spatter on the side window.

Speaker 2 And Howard Ashelman faces new trouble.

Speaker 19 He had beat the date off of her.

Speaker 2 When Dateline continues.

Speaker 4 Six long and painful months after her son James disappeared, Rachel Wellhauser and her second husband Dennis made a tough decision. They moved out of state.

Speaker 4 In trying to find James, Rachel was beginning to lose herself.

Speaker 5 I was obsessed. I had a walk to North Carolina looking for him.

Speaker 5 If I wasn't on the computer, I was looking.

Speaker 5 And my husband thought, the only way I'm going to save me is to get me out of here where I'm not looking over every bridge, looking at every field. So he took me to Texas.

Speaker 4 Even 1,200 miles away in Dallas, the obsession didn't leave her. Rachel continued hunting Howard Ashelman on social media.

Speaker 4 Are you starting to become more suspicious of Howard Ashelman the more you learn about him?

Speaker 5 When I'm seeing some of the posts he's putting up, he's terrifying me.

Speaker 5 Because he's out there.

Speaker 4 Then, during the summer of 2015, came another post involving Howard.

Speaker 4 Only this one wasn't on Facebook, but rather the criminal court docket.

Speaker 15 Howard Ashelman was charged in a domestic violence incident with a young lady he was in a relationship with at the time.

Speaker 4 James's roommate Brandy was Facebook friends with the woman and clearly remembered the allegations.

Speaker 19 I wonder, you need to be careful. And that was when it came about that he had beat the teeth off of her.

Speaker 4 Howard was charged, a court date set, but

Speaker 15 we were not able to proceed to trial, and the case was ultimately dismissed.

Speaker 4 Dismissed because the woman didn't attend a pretrial hearing.

Speaker 19 She was so scared of him, she was afraid to see him in court.

Speaker 4 The James Chambers case wasn't looking too promising either, even though the DA now considered Howard the prime suspect.

Speaker 15 We simply did not have enough evidence to charge him with any crimes related to the disappearance of James Chambers. We did not have a body to build our investigation upon, so it was going cold.

Speaker 4 But James' father, Pete, was hot, furious that the investigation had stalled. He desperately wanted fresh eyes on the case.

Speaker 6 My brother and I were talking one day, and he said, let's contact David.

Speaker 4 David was David Marshburn, a private investigator Pete had seen on TV. Marshburn is known for finding missing people on his own time and own dime.

Speaker 4 He had become a local legend after cracking a cold case in 2014 involving a missing Army medic. A story we covered on Dateline.
How daunting of a task was it?

Speaker 7 It's not that easy to find it.

Speaker 4 Marshburn had secured a confession and even found the body.

Speaker 4 After hearing Pete's story about his son's disappearance, he signed on immediately.

Speaker 7 The James Chamber case seemed to be one that could be solved in a reasonable time.

Speaker 4 Marshburn got right to work.

Speaker 7 I asked Pete, could we get on the property of the Bensons?

Speaker 15 And that's where Howard was living.

Speaker 7 And Pete said, well, I think we can make that work.

Speaker 4 The Bensons were the couple who had taken Howard in after he moved to North Carolina.

Speaker 6 Happened to be Mr. Benson was was not there.
Miss Benson was. She didn't like Howard.
She said, search all you want to.

Speaker 7 We get the dog out and have him start looking around.

Speaker 4 Your cadaver dog, Kaz. Did Kaz hit on anything?

Speaker 7 He did.

Speaker 7 The first thing he did was he went to these two abandoned vehicles.

Speaker 4 When Pete took a closer look, he hit the jackpot.

Speaker 7 You could see the expression on his face.

Speaker 27 Oh my God.

Speaker 7 I'm like, what?

Speaker 15 He said, these are the truck parts.

Speaker 7 These are all Howard's truck that he tore apart.

Speaker 4 Remember, Howard sold his truck for scrap right after James disappeared. But now it turned out he'd kept some parts, significant ones, like windows, the radio, even seat belts.

Speaker 15 That was like a gold mine.

Speaker 7 We started inspecting it and sure enough, we've got blood spatter on the side window. It's still there.
We've got blood spatter on the radio.

Speaker 4 So this is at least what you think it is.

Speaker 7 I'm pretty confident at this point in time because this is high-velocity spatter right here.

Speaker 4 Suggesting someone may have been shot inside the truck. Fayetteville police were also at the scene and collected the parts to have them tested for DNA.

Speaker 6 Maybe we have something now that we can prove that Howard did this.

Speaker 4 While they waited for the results, Marshburn had another idea. See if Reno Parks would talk.

Speaker 4 Reno wasn't hard to find. He was locked up on a robbery wrap.
So Marshburn arranged a meeting at the prison.

Speaker 7 I said, Reno, I have this evidence.

Speaker 7 And he's interested now because he's like, wait a minute, what evidence? I thought it was all gone. I showed him a picture of the seatbelt with the bloodstain, the radio, and the windows.

Speaker 5 What was his reaction?

Speaker 7 He shook his head, looked at him, and I said, You can either be a witness or a defendant. It's up to you.

Speaker 4 Did he start talking?

Speaker 7 He looked at the pictures, looked down, and next thing I know, when he looks up, he's crying. He's got tears streaming down his face.
And he said, What do you need to know?

Speaker 7 Nothing would ever prepare me for what would come next.

Speaker 2 Coming up, murder is one thing this was the stuff of nightmares i called the dad and i said pete you don't want to know

Speaker 7 that's what he told me

Speaker 46 Hey weirdos, I'm Elena and I'm Ash and we are the host of Morbid Podcast.

Speaker 47 Each week we dive into the dark and fascinating world of true crime, spooky history, and the unexplained.

Speaker 42 From infamous killers and unsolved mysteries to haunted places and strange legends, we cover it all with research, empathy, humor, and a few creative expletives.

Speaker 48 It's smart, it's spooky, and it's just the right amount of weird.

Speaker 42 Two new episodes drop every week, and there's even a bonus once a month.

Speaker 52 Find us wherever you listen to podcasts.

Speaker 4 Yay! Woo!

Speaker 26 If you're a smoker or dipper ready to make a change, you really only need one good reason.

Speaker 28 But with Zen nicotine pouches, you'll discover many good reasons.

Speaker 21 Zen is America's number one nicotine pouch brand.

Speaker 31 Plus, Zen offers a robust rewards program.

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Speaker 21 Check out zinn.com/slash find to find Zen at a store near you.

Speaker 17 Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

Speaker 5 A Mochi Moment from Sadie, who writes, I'm not crying, you're crying.

Speaker 37 This is what I said during my first appointment with my physician at Mochi, because I didn't have to convince him I needed a GLP-1.

Speaker 33 He understood, and I felt supported, not judged.

Speaker 39 I came for the weight loss and stayed for the empathy.

Speaker 34 Thanks, Sadie.

Speaker 35 I'm Myra Ameth, founder of Mochi Health.

Speaker 38 To find your Mochi Moment, visit joinmochi.com.

Speaker 40 Mochi members have access to licensed physicians and nutritionists and are compensated for their stories.

Speaker 41 Results may vary.

Speaker 4 Inside these prison walls, David Marshburne could feel it. He had Reno Parks primed and ready to reveal what happened to James Chambers.

Speaker 7 And I said, I need to know where this boy is.

Speaker 4 And is he like nervous? How's his demeanor as he's telling you this?

Speaker 7 He's nervous. He's just doing like this.
And he'd look up at me and said, this boy did not deserve this.

Speaker 4 Marshburn had limited time with Reno, so he got him talking about how it all started.

Speaker 4 He says that Reno remembered hanging out at that barbecue across the street from Howard's house when soon all hell broke loose.

Speaker 7 He said Howard stopped at the beginning of the driveway, got out of his truck, went to the back of the truck,

Speaker 7 lowered the tailgate, got out a gun, raised it up, and just shot right into the back window of his truck.

Speaker 4 This is huge.

Speaker 7 It is. He said, I saw him shot.

Speaker 4 Reno insisted he wasn't involved in the shooting, but his story was horrific. He said Howard first hid the body on the Benson's property.
Then two days later, he tried to burn it.

Speaker 4 When that didn't work, Reno said Howard did the unthinkable.

Speaker 7 And he is bawling at this point in time. And he said, ma'am, please tell that mom and dad I'm sorry.
I'm sorry. He said he cut him up.

Speaker 4 Cut him up, Reno explained, by actually dismembering the body and putting it into thick plastic bags.

Speaker 4 With his time in the prison running out, Marshburn still needed Reno to reveal the most crucial detail of all.

Speaker 4 What Howard did with James's body.

Speaker 7 As I'm trying to leave, I said, well, where did he put him? He said, over a bridge. It was concrete, had columns.

Speaker 4 Reno said he was with Howard when he threw the bags?

Speaker 14 Yes,

Speaker 7 he rode with him.

Speaker 4 Was Reno Parks' story for real? We tried reaching out to him, but never heard back. Reno, remember, had a rap sheet.
How reliable was he as a witness?

Speaker 4 Marshburn believed him. And now, as he was leaving the prison, came the most difficult part of all.

Speaker 7 I called the dad, and I said, Pete, you don't want to know.

Speaker 7 That's when he told me.

Speaker 4 He told you what happened.

Speaker 7 That Howard shot him

Speaker 7 in the back, the back of the head,

Speaker 7 and tried to burn him.

Speaker 6 Then cut him up into pieces.

Speaker 5 So sorry.

Speaker 44 Cut him up into pieces and put him in bags and threw him in the damn river like he was trash.

Speaker 4 After 18 months, he finally had some answers, assuming Reno was telling the truth. If so, perhaps Pete and Rachel could bring their son home and maybe bring Howard Ashelman to justice.

Speaker 4 By now, there was a new Fayetteville detective on the case. Larry Donegan had taken the lead.

Speaker 11 I got promoted to homicide. Was one of those, hey, this cold case is yours.

Speaker 4 Detective Donegan later learned about that disturbing interview with Reno Parks and discussed the details with Marshburn.

Speaker 4 But Donnegan wanted to conduct his own interrogation with Parks on tape to make sure it would hold up in court.

Speaker 11 He declined. He didn't even want to talk to us.

Speaker 4 Did you try to interview Howard again?

Speaker 11 I wanted something new to throw in front of him to try and get him to a point like, uh-oh, they got me. That's what we try to do, the DNA.

Speaker 4 The DNA.

Speaker 4 Remember the truck parts that Howard saved? The ones which appeared to be stained with blood?

Speaker 4 Maybe that blood would match James's DNA.

Speaker 4 Detective Donegan expedited extensive tests at two different labs.

Speaker 4 The seat belts were tested?

Speaker 8 Yes.

Speaker 45 And nothing.

Speaker 4 Nothing.

Speaker 8 Nothing.

Speaker 4 Too much time had passed? Yeah.

Speaker 11 Everything was inconclusive.

Speaker 5 Big.

Speaker 11 Big letdown. And it goes as you're back to square one.

Speaker 4 Digging deeper into the case file, Detective Donegan reviewed all those police interviews with Howard and all his suspected Facebook pages.

Speaker 11 Watching him change, he seemed to be an individual that can kind of move through different crowds. And everything just kept leading back towards Howard, that he was the primary key to the case.

Speaker 4 So Donegan went to the house where Howard lived with the Benson family for a look around.

Speaker 4 He found nothing, but he did encounter Ruth Benson.

Speaker 11 That's where I found out kind of Howard was a hunter. He had access to Mr.
Benson's guns. And then she made a comment about Howard

Speaker 11 where she refers to Howard as Homicide Howie.

Speaker 5 Mrs.

Speaker 10 Benson? Yes.

Speaker 5 Is calling him Homicide Howie.

Speaker 4 That name, much like the one Rachel and Fran had discovered.

Speaker 4 Ruth Benson told us that she called him Homicide Howie because she said he had killed a friend's dog. But police suspected the nickname really referred to what Howard did to James.

Speaker 4 Did you start to feel like this is an open secret? How people feel about Howard and what he may have done?

Speaker 11 Yes, I believe the Bensons knew more, and the same with his circle of friends.

Speaker 4 But the Bensons told detectives, and also us, they were unaware of any crime Howard might have committed against James.

Speaker 4 As for Howard, the day Detective Donegan visited the Bensons' property, he wasn't there. Turns out Howard would soon soon disappear and leave Fayetteville far behind.

Speaker 2 Coming up, a mother's vow to her son.

Speaker 5 He says, Just promise.

Speaker 5 And I said,

Speaker 5 I promise.

Speaker 5 Promise, James.

Speaker 2 When dateline continues.

Speaker 4 It's a long drive from Texas to North Carolina. 20 tedious hours.

Speaker 4 But every few months, Rachel returned to the Carolina countryside to search for her son.

Speaker 4 Often alone, sometimes with her husband Dennis. This is where we started at today.

Speaker 8 Yeah, this is need more here.

Speaker 4 Going off some of the grim details of Reno Parks's story and her own intuition, Rachel would tromp through the thick forest along rivers and streams, combing the brush,

Speaker 4 surveying every bridge, searching for any trace of her son,

Speaker 4 something she could bring back home to give James a proper burial.

Speaker 5 If I can't find even 50 miles, I'll put 100 miles.

Speaker 4 You'll expand your grid.

Speaker 5 Yes, until I find him.

Speaker 4 Is this something you'll do until you just can't do it anymore?

Speaker 8 I'll do it till I die.

Speaker 4 What keeps you going on these searches?

Speaker 5 My love.

Speaker 5 My promise.

Speaker 4 Her promise.

Speaker 4 Remember when James first went missing and Rachel was frantically trying to fulfill a promise by finding out where he was?

Speaker 4 Turns out, that promise was one she'd made years earlier when James's little brother Michael died.

Speaker 5 The day of the funeral, when we were walking away from Michael's casket,

Speaker 5 and James touched my arm and says, Mom,

Speaker 5 if something ever happens to me, put me by Michael.

Speaker 5 And I begged, I said, James, please, don't ask me that.

Speaker 4 You couldn't bear losing another son?

Speaker 5 No.

Speaker 5 And he says, just promise.

Speaker 5 And I said,

Speaker 5 I promise.

Speaker 5 Promise, James.

Speaker 4 So Rachel tried to fulfill that promise. One step,

Speaker 4 one stream,

Speaker 4 and one bridge at a time. In all kinds of wilderness and weather.

Speaker 4 This rugged area makes searching very difficult. Thick forests, swampy terrain, wild animals, deadly snakes.
Not to mention how many years have gone by.

Speaker 4 The region had also seen a major hurricane and several other severe storms, which could have washed away any trace of James.

Speaker 4 So it wasn't surprising that all of Rachel's searching led absolutely nowhere. Do you ever want to give up?

Speaker 5 No.

Speaker 5 I'll give up when we find him.

Speaker 4 I've had a lot of people say it's been too long.

Speaker 4 Not for me, it hasn't.

Speaker 5 I'm not giving up.

Speaker 10 I can't sit and wait.

Speaker 5 I want him now.

Speaker 4 So finding him would give you at least

Speaker 4 a piece of the closure.

Speaker 5 Yes, and to be able to go to his grave. And another that's as close as I can be to him, because right now I'm living in the where.

Speaker 4 Where are you?

Speaker 4 When she wasn't searching, Rachel was clicking,

Speaker 4 constantly checking Howard Ashelman's Facebook pages and comparing notes with her co-investigator, Fran Funderberg.

Speaker 4 Then, a couple of years after James disappeared, the two noticed something rather surprising. Howard's social media postings just suddenly stopped.

Speaker 10 Many of the postings that had been placed there in the

Speaker 10 year past

Speaker 10 were removed.

Speaker 4 It's quite the contrast from the Howard that you'd been investigating.

Speaker 10 It really was. And we were quite concerned when he went off the grid for a time.
He stopped posting. We were concerned that maybe he was in the wind and would not be found anytime soon.

Speaker 4 Detectives and the DA also noticed that Howard seemed to just vanish.

Speaker 15 The homicide detectives certainly were watching his movements and whereabouts, although there was nothing to constrain him at this time.

Speaker 15 He sort of just, you know, dropped off the face of the earth, so to speak.

Speaker 4 Then, one day, several weeks after Howard had gone silent, a picture popped up on Facebook. It was Howard in the last place you would ever imagine.

Speaker 20 Coming up.

Speaker 11 He will morph and change into whatever he needs to change into to survive. Like, why is he in a Bible college?

Speaker 2 Where he apparently found religion and a girlfriend, too.

Speaker 5 She's standing there with Evo.

Speaker 46 Hey, weirdos, I'm Elena, and I'm Ash, and we are the hosts of Morbid Podcast.

Speaker 47 Each week, we dive into the dark and fascinating world of true crime, spooky history, and the unexplained.

Speaker 42 From infamous killers and unsolved mysteries to haunted places and strange legends, we cover it all with research, empathy, humor, and a few creative expletives.

Speaker 48 It's smart, it's spooky, and it's just the right amount of weird.

Speaker 42 Two new episodes drop every week, and there's even a bonus once a month.

Speaker 52 Find us wherever you listen to podcasts.

Speaker 4 Yay! Woo! Aye!

Speaker 23 A mochi moment from Sadie, who writes, I'm not crying, you're crying.

Speaker 37 This is what I said during my first appointment with my physician at Mochi, because I didn't have to convince him I needed a GLP-1.

Speaker 33 He understood, and I felt supported, not judged.

Speaker 39 I came for the weight loss and stayed for the empathy.

Speaker 34 Thanks, Sadie.

Speaker 35 I'm Myra Ameth, founder of Mochi Health.

Speaker 38 To find your Mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com.

Speaker 40 Mochi members have access to licensed physicians and nutritionists and are compensated for their stories.

Speaker 41 Results may vary.

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Speaker 4 It was late summer 2016 when Rachel saw it.

Speaker 4 A new photo of Howard Ashelman. But it was the setting that really caught her attention.

Speaker 5 In the background, there's palm trees, a couple of buildings, license plates. He is now in Florida.

Speaker 5 Further through his page, there are pictures, and on the corner of a picture,

Speaker 5 there is Hobe Sound.

Speaker 4 Hope Sound.

Speaker 4 A quiet community near West Palm Beach.

Speaker 5 I start googling looking for Hope Sound. Hope Sound Bible College, Hope Sound Christian Church.
All this is popping up in the area.

Speaker 4 And then her search revealed exactly what Howard was up to.

Speaker 5 He is going to a Bible college.

Speaker 4 What do you think when you see that? That he is attending a Bible college.

Speaker 5 He needed it. Perfect place for him, I thought.

Speaker 4 Yes, Howard Ashelman, aka homicide Howie, was actually attending an accredited Christian college whose mission statement in part reads, committed to preparing servant leaders who think biblically live spirit-filled lives.

Speaker 4 And here's Howard sporting a new look, dramatically different from his Fayetteville days, singing a hymn called Statue of Liberty, which was posted on social media.

Speaker 5 I'm so glad

Speaker 5 to be called

Speaker 5 a Christian.

Speaker 4 Singing those lyrics, Howard seems to be proclaiming his faith.

Speaker 4 Word of the new Howard spread fast to Fayetteville.

Speaker 10 It is definitely like two different people. It was quite confusing to us to understand

Speaker 10 what his motivation behind that was.

Speaker 19 It's divine irony for me, for somebody who's fleeing to go to Bible college. I wish I could explain the cluster cluckery that is Howard Ashelman's mind.

Speaker 4 Everyone now wondered, had Howard come here to find God or find cover?

Speaker 6 I think he's remorseful at this time and he wants forgiveness. I think it's eating him alive.

Speaker 4 Rachel amped up her internet search and discovered even more about Howard's new life on campus.

Speaker 5 Then I find out going through different Facebook pages, he's now seeing

Speaker 5 a young woman out there

Speaker 5 that terrifies me.

Speaker 4 Her name was Hannah Jones, just 17 at the time. She also attended the Bible College and sang in the choir, a high-profile school activity.
The college posted videos of it on their YouTube account.

Speaker 5 I was genuinely worried about her, and

Speaker 5 I didn't know if she knew what she was standing next to.

Speaker 4 Through her eyes, she's standing there, you know, with Mr. Wonderful.

Speaker 4 Yeah, her God-loving, clean-cut boyfriend. Through your eyes, she's standing there with a monster.

Speaker 5 She's standing there with evil.

Speaker 7 Panicked, rachel called david marshburn the private investigator and says i need your help i'm like what's going on come to find out howard's at a bible college what do you think when you hear that he's hiding he's trying to play i got away with it i'm gonna get into an environment that keeps me straight so i don't mess up

Speaker 4 Marshburn reached out to the college's youth pastor and shocked him with the news that Howard, the Bible student, was also Howard, the murder suspect.

Speaker 7 He's like, Well, not Howard, you know, he's in the choir. And I said, Well, you obviously don't know Howard.
Like, we know him. I said, Go online.

Speaker 5 Look at it.

Speaker 7 Look up James Chambers missing. I did remind him that his job was to take care of his flock.

Speaker 4 You got a potentially a bad sheep in the flock.

Speaker 7 Well, they got a wolf in sheep's clothes.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 4 After alerting the Bible Bible College, Marshburn spoke with the father of Howard's girlfriend.

Speaker 7 And I said, I believe that your daughter could be in danger. And he's like, I can't believe.
I said, sir, it's just a matter of time.

Speaker 7 And your daughter's going to wind up hurt physically, mentally, or something.

Speaker 4 By now, the Martin County Sheriff's Office was alerted. Detective Dan Dulak was assigned to what would quickly become one of the most memorable cases of his career.

Speaker 14 We were concerned for the safety of everybody in Martin County.

Speaker 8 We need to find out more about what's going on.

Speaker 4 So Dulak spoke with Fayetteville police to get the lowdown on the James Chambers investigation. Detective Donegan filled him in and shared his concerns about Howard.

Speaker 11 He's a true chameleon that he will morph and change into whatever he needs to change into to survive. What is he up to? Like, why is he in a Bible college?

Speaker 4 Yeah, usually killers find God

Speaker 4 maybe once they're behind bars.

Speaker 11 Yes. So what's the end game to this?

Speaker 14 We were able to kind of get a background and idea of the type of person he was and who we might be dealing with before we actually approach him.

Speaker 4 Like how dangerous could this guy potentially be?

Speaker 14 Right. And that's the concern is how do we need to deal with him?

Speaker 4 Detective Dulak now found himself knee-deep in a homicide investigation. And soon he would be sitting face to face with the man at the center of it all.

Speaker 30 Do you have any idea why you're here right now?

Speaker 2 Coming up, Howard's girlfriend Hannah would also soon be meeting with police.

Speaker 12 So he's talked about shooting people before.

Speaker 2 Was Hannah in danger?

Speaker 14 She was concerned that if he found out that she had been talking to law enforcement already, would his demeanor change toward her?

Speaker 2 When dateline continues.

Speaker 4 Hobe Sound, Florida bills itself as a charming little beach town with understated elegance.

Speaker 4 But in January 2017, there was nothing understated or elegant about what was going down at the Martin County Sheriff's Office.

Speaker 4 How long have you known

Speaker 4 Howard?

Speaker 5 Since late August.

Speaker 4 That's Hannah Jones, Howard's Bible College girlfriend, with her parents undergoing a probing police interview.

Speaker 5 What have you been told by anybody?

Speaker 5 That he

Speaker 5 shot her

Speaker 5 killing.

Speaker 4 Is there some way that you can use Hannah to try to get something out of Howard?

Speaker 5 Yes.

Speaker 14 The first plan with Hannah was just to get information from her, to find out what Howard had told her about his life in Fayetteville.

Speaker 4 And according to Hannah, Howard admitted he was no choir boy in Fayetteville.

Speaker 13 He mainly sold drugs and

Speaker 13 he was in some gangs

Speaker 13 and he didn't care a whole lot about what people thought. If they didn't do what he wanted, they'd just shoot him.

Speaker 12 So he's talked about shooting people before?

Speaker 5 Hmm.

Speaker 13 He's made it sound like that. I don't know if he came out.

Speaker 14 My impression from Hannah was that it almost seemed like this is someone who was broken and needed help and fixing.

Speaker 4 It was apparent that she truly was in love with this guy.

Speaker 14 Hannah seemed to be on the fence about Howard. She wasn't sure how she was going to be able to break it off with him.

Speaker 4 But Hannah's parents feared their 17-year-old daughter was now in danger.

Speaker 12 But we obviously don't feel comfortable with her hanging out with Howard.

Speaker 53 I don't know when he might snap or change who he is as a person and she'd be right in the middle of it.

Speaker 11 And

Speaker 53 that concerns me as a dad.

Speaker 14 So Hannah seemed to think that Howard didn't pose any kind of threat to her, but she was concerned that if he found out that she had been talking to law enforcement already, would his demeanor change toward her?

Speaker 4 Detective Dulak needed to get to Howard quickly before he discovered police were poking into his past.

Speaker 4 Howard was at work but agreed to come in for an interview.

Speaker 5 I don't want to go through that.

Speaker 5 Well, I understand, but

Speaker 14 we need to try to.

Speaker 4 What kind of person do you think he was? What impression were you getting?

Speaker 14 It was just really hard to read him. He wasn't giving me a lot to work with.
He was very evasive. He didn't want to talk.

Speaker 4 Especially about his troubled time back in Fayetteville.

Speaker 5 I've tried to erase it out of my mind because it was traumatic for me. Right after that, I started using drugs real heavy.

Speaker 5 I kind of fried my brain.

Speaker 12 Okay, but I'm sure you still remember.

Speaker 5 I remember a little bit and stuff.

Speaker 4 But Howard offered no specifics about the murder. You asked him straight up if he killed James Chambers.

Speaker 14 I did. And I told him, I said, I have no doubt in my mind that James is dead and that you know something about what happened to him.

Speaker 12 You want to be a preacher?

Speaker 4 Howard wouldn't say. Dulak even tried appealing to his newfound faith.

Speaker 12 You have made the decision to be a different person, to be a good Christian, to be a leader of the Christian faith.

Speaker 14 He's here at the Bible College. He's trying to be a pastor.
He's learning about Christianity.

Speaker 4 You're really trying to play to the new Howard. Yes.
Yes. Not the old Howard.

Speaker 14 I knew that the old Howard would never talk to me.

Speaker 4 But in the end, the new Howard wouldn't talk either.

Speaker 4 After that police interview, Howard went to see Hannah.

Speaker 14 And she had a conversation with Howard, and she recorded that conversation.

Speaker 4 Did she tell you she was going to do that?

Speaker 14 She did not tell us she was going to do that.

Speaker 4 Hannah didn't tell Howard either, as her cell phone secretly recorded their conversation. She had to know: was her boyfriend also a killer?

Speaker 9 Who got killed?

Speaker 54 Whether it was you or not. Who got killed?

Speaker 43 Did you do something to him?

Speaker 5 I can't.

Speaker 4 As the conversation continued, Hannah kept urging Howard to give up his horrible secret.

Speaker 54 Did you kill the person?

Speaker 54 Tell me. I don't have to do that.

Speaker 54 And I don't have to.

Speaker 54 You sure I didn't?

Speaker 54 If you didn't, you told me you didn't.

Speaker 38 You did.

Speaker 14 When Hannah said, did you kill someone?

Speaker 14 And he nodded his head, she tells us later that he nodded his head. Yes.

Speaker 4 Even though he's not giving a full-out confession, he's really like coming right up to the line. Yes.

Speaker 14 Clearly, the facts of the admissions that he's making lined up with the facts of the case of James Chambers being missing. Clearly, this was going to be strong evidence in the case against him.

Speaker 4 Hannah's mother later turned the recording over to the sheriff's office, but not before yet another bombshell.

Speaker 14 A couple hours later, my supervisor is calling me saying, Hey, Howard wants to confess to the murder of James Chambers.

Speaker 4 What are you thinking?

Speaker 14 I was like, that's amazing. Over the course of one day, we went from having never even heard of this case before to him coming in and now confessing to this murder.

Speaker 4 Detectives in two states couldn't crack Howard, but it seemed his devout and determined girlfriend had finally done it.

Speaker 4 A meeting was hastily set up in this Walgreens parking lot with Howard and the Jones family.

Speaker 14 I told them, okay, I'm all ears. Tell me what you want to tell me.

Speaker 5 I'm definitely going to do the right thing.

Speaker 5 I'm not trying to run or nothing, you know. Okay, I've been playing.

Speaker 4 But that was it. Because

Speaker 14 the Jones family actually said he needs a lawyer before he says anything.

Speaker 4 A Florida public defender soon arrived and advised Howard to hold off on talking.

Speaker 4 So, no confession.

Speaker 14 That was a huge letdown. I wanted to call Fayetteville and tell them, hey, we have a confession.
We've got him here in custody.

Speaker 4 So he just drives away?

Speaker 14 Yes, we parted ways with Howard.

Speaker 4 The Bible College also parted ways with Howard. The college declined our request for an interview, but its then-president provided a video statement about their former student.

Speaker 55 When he shared the incident with us, we realized it was very serious, and we told him that he could no longer continue as a student at Hope Sound Bible College.

Speaker 55 We urged him to go back to North Carolina and make confession to the proper authorities.

Speaker 4 Whether it was pressure from the college, Hannah, her parents, or his own conscience, Howard decided to head up the highway to Fayetteville and finally confess.

Speaker 4 As that was happening, District Attorney Billy West was finalizing a plea deal with the Fayetteville public defender assigned to Howard's case.

Speaker 15 Howard Ashwin would plead guilty to second-degree murder. He would get a sentence of 15 to 20 years.
We thought that we'd get some justice for James and his family.

Speaker 4 And maybe even find James.

Speaker 4 But then, a snag, a big one.

Speaker 2 Coming up, more pain for James's parents.

Speaker 4 You must have been so mad.

Speaker 7 Oh man, yeah, livid.

Speaker 46 Hey, weirdos, I'm Elena, and I'm Ash, and we are the hosts of Morbid Podcast.

Speaker 47 Each week, we dive into the dark and fascinating world of true crime, spooky history, and the unexplained.

Speaker 42 From infamous killers and unsolved mysteries to haunted places and strange legends, we cover it all with research, empathy, humor, and a few creative expletives.

Speaker 48 It's smart, it's spooky, and it's just the right amount of weird.

Speaker 42 Two new episodes drop every week, and there's even a bonus once a month.

Speaker 52 Find us wherever you listen to podcasts.

Speaker 4 Yay! Woo! Aye!

Speaker 26 If you're a smoker or dipper ready to make a change, you really only need one good reason.

Speaker 28 But with Zinn nicotine pouches, you'll discover many good reasons.

Speaker 21 Zinn is America's number one nicotine pouch brand.

Speaker 31 Plus, Zinn offers a robust rewards program.

Speaker 18 There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction, but there's only one Zen.

Speaker 21 Check out Zinn.com slash find to find Zin at a store near you.

Speaker 17 Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

Speaker 33 A mochi moment from Tara, who writes, for years, all my doctor said was eat less and move more, which never worked.

Speaker 38 But you know what does?

Speaker 34 The simple eating tips from my nutritionist at Mochi.

Speaker 39 And after losing over 30 pounds, I can say you're not just another GLP1 source, you're a life source.

Speaker 35 Thanks, Tara. I'm Myra Ammet, founder of Mochi Health.

Speaker 38 To find your Mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com.

Speaker 40 Mochi members have access to licensed physicians and nutritionists and are compensated for their stories.

Speaker 41 Results may vary.

Speaker 4 When Howard Ashelman returned to Fayetteville to meet with his public defender and law enforcement to confess, it seemed too good to be true.

Speaker 4 Turned out, it was.

Speaker 15 He basically got cold feet and left the area and did not enter into the plea.

Speaker 4 No plea meant no deal, no confession, no justice,

Speaker 4 and most importantly, no James.

Speaker 4 His father, Pete, was devastated.

Speaker 6 What I was told by Fayeville PD was public defender told him he don't have anything on you.

Speaker 4 They thought that they were looking out for his best interest.

Speaker 6 Right. He don't care about parents of the guy who killed.

Speaker 4 You must have been so mad.

Speaker 7 Oh man, yeah.

Speaker 6 Livid.

Speaker 7 Livid.

Speaker 4 So was James's mother, Rachel.

Speaker 4 Just hours earlier, it seemed like she was on the verge of getting all the answers about her son's murder. Did you just want to give up at that point?

Speaker 8 No.

Speaker 5 One thing Howard wants me to do is give up, walk away, lay down, and grieve.

Speaker 5 One thing I want is James.

Speaker 4 Without a confession, the case against Howard collapsed. District Attorney Billy West had to let it go.

Speaker 15 The evidence was not overwhelming against Howard Ashley.

Speaker 15 We were confident that he was responsible for James' death, but we did not feel like that we were in a position right then to proceed towards trial with the case.

Speaker 19 It seemed like he got away scot-free. He walked off skipping and whistling.

Speaker 4 Howard returned to Florida and continued his relationship with Hannah Jones. What about the Jones family? Were they accepting Howard Howard back into their lives?

Speaker 14 Yeah, from my understanding, he was still very close with the Jones family. I believe he was staying with them

Speaker 14 and they were very tight-knit still.

Speaker 4 So, like, after all they learned about him, they were still

Speaker 14 very supportive of him.

Speaker 4 It appeared Howard, the murder suspect, was back to being Howard, the boyfriend. We tried asking Hannah and her parents to explain their 180.
They declined.

Speaker 4 Detective Dulak, though, had a theory.

Speaker 14 Something happened that made them change their opinion of Howard. I don't know if they were just that forgiving, if they really just saw a lot of good in him, or what was really going on there.

Speaker 4 But back at the Fayetteville Police Department, Detective Larry Donegan's opinion of Howard hadn't changed.

Speaker 4 Even though his case had gone from solved to shambles, Donegan still believed he could nail him.

Speaker 11 We're starting from scratch all over again.

Speaker 4 So how much pressure are you feeling to catch Howard now?

Speaker 11 It's there, because now he's back in Florida.

Speaker 15 But

Speaker 11 is he going to uproot and disappear?

Speaker 4 Or perhaps do something even worse?

Speaker 5 I was terrified. He was going to do this to someone else.

Speaker 4 And are you tracking him again daily?

Speaker 5 I'm still watching him. Yes.
Because we're worried about the people around him.

Speaker 4 Detective Dulak also feared the worst.

Speaker 14 We would keep an eye on what was going on and hopefully that he would go back to North Carolina very quickly before anything else would happen.

Speaker 4 Months passed.

Speaker 4 Howard laid low.

Speaker 4 Did you start to worry that he would never be charged? I mean, there was no solid evidence. There was no body.

Speaker 5 No. I was told early on, get prepared,

Speaker 5 this could take years. Those words just stuck with me.
This could take years.

Speaker 4 But little did Rachel know, Detective Donegan was continuing to compile a case against Howard.

Speaker 11 I went back through the case file, started looking over stuff. We have a statement here, check.
We have the stuff that he talked to Hannah, check. We have statements over there, check.

Speaker 4 It's not perfect, but is it enough? Yes. Now?

Speaker 11 It's to the point where I can charge him.

Speaker 4 The case against Howard included that secret tape from Hannah Jones, which DA Billy West hoped would help sway a jury.

Speaker 15 We're going to get this case ready. We're going to make sure that we've got evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, and then we're going to proceed.

Speaker 4 December 2017.

Speaker 4 It was almost a year since Howard's plea deal went sideways. Billy West called a meeting.

Speaker 15 I remember looking at Detective Donegan, my homicide team, and said, we're going to charge him with murder and proceed to trial.

Speaker 15 If he will not not accept our plea agreement, that's what we're going to do.

Speaker 4 They contacted Howard's public defender.

Speaker 11 Between the public defender and the prosecutor's office up here, things were worked out.

Speaker 4 A deal was worked out?

Speaker 5 Yes.

Speaker 11 First, he had to confess to everything.

Speaker 11 Then after the confession, he had to work with us in an attempt to find James.

Speaker 4 Once again, Howard returned to Fayetteville.

Speaker 11 He showed up.

Speaker 11 More or less, here I am.

Speaker 4 Did you arrest him? No, no.

Speaker 11 I charged him.

Speaker 11 So Howard was supposed to

Speaker 11 come confess. As part of the arrangement, we were going to let him leave.
He would return back the following day, and then the process more or less would start.

Speaker 4 But then it was deja vu all over again.

Speaker 11 Poof, he's gone again.

Speaker 2 Coming up, wedding bell blues.

Speaker 6 Why do you marry somebody that you know killed somebody?

Speaker 2 When dateline continues.

Speaker 4 I appreciate you coming back. First, he was a murder suspect, then a Bible college student, and now Howard Ashelman was a fugitive.

Speaker 4 Just a day after he promised once again to confess, Howard was missing, which had DA Billy West worried.

Speaker 15 We didn't know where he was. People can try to, you know, drive several states away or take a flight to another country, sort of go underground.

Speaker 4 The DA's office called the public defender's office, which didn't know exactly where Howard was either. So Detective Larry Donegan moved into manhunt mode.

Speaker 11 I conferred with the violent criminal apprehension team. They They went and did what they had to do to track him down.

Speaker 4 And it didn't take long.

Speaker 4 Using cell phone records, they located and then arrested Howard some 48 hours later near the tiny town of Randleman, North Carolina.

Speaker 11 I just

Speaker 11 don't know where they plan on going from there.

Speaker 4 Perhaps on a honeymoon, because

Speaker 15 Howard Ashelman had married Hannah Jones.

Speaker 4 That's right. Hannah, now 18, was Mrs.
Howard Ashelman.

Speaker 4 Just a few days before Howard's arrest, the two had driven to another county and tied the knot at this local courthouse.

Speaker 4 When Pete Chambers got word of the wedding, he wasn't exactly celebrating.

Speaker 6 Why do you marry somebody that you know killed somebody?

Speaker 6 Why do your parents let you marry them? Couldn't believe it.

Speaker 5 Why?

Speaker 6 But yet they run off and get married.

Speaker 4 And then apparently celebrated their marriage in rural North Carolina. So there's not going to be a tropical honeymoon in this case when he's got a one-way ticket to the big house.

Speaker 11 Now, I don't know if his intention was to just give me some time with my new wife and then I'll come and take the plea deal. But it was

Speaker 11 the craziest thing I've seen.

Speaker 4 Or maybe not crazy. Maybe it was calculated.
Was it a strategic move, did you think?

Speaker 5 Why now?

Speaker 11 That was, I think, to keep her quiet.

Speaker 4 So she won't have to testify against him if they're married.

Speaker 11 Once they're married, she can claim spousal immunity. I'm not going to speak.
He's my husband.

Speaker 4 And would their marriage also prevent the prosecution from presenting Hannah's secret recording?

Speaker 15 There certainly was a bit of a concern from a legal point of view.

Speaker 15 Are they trying to make some type of move where the evidence that Hannah has is not presented to a jury if this case should go to trial.

Speaker 4 So now it was critical to establish a timeline of Howard and Hannah's relationship and get a window into their private lives.

Speaker 4 So Detective Donegan got a search warrant for Hannah's cell phone and downloaded hundreds of pictures. Sure enough, there was Howard proposing and their wedding at the courthouse.

Speaker 4 Plus, a collection of photos of the loving couple throughout their relationship.

Speaker 4 How did those photos of Hannah and Howard really help your investigation?

Speaker 11 It gave us a little more insight of their relationship. My concern was that potentially Hannah could disappear, just like James.

Speaker 11 By going through the photos, looking at their life together, their relationship timeframe, it appeared more that he actually truly cared about her.

Speaker 4 After researching North Carolina's spousal privilege laws, DA Billy Billy West was confident Howard's tacit confession could be used in court because it was recorded by Hannah before they were married.

Speaker 4 So detectives hauled Howard into an interrogation room while attorneys finalized his plea deal, which included several more months of prison time to make up for that year of freedom he enjoyed after nixing the first deal.

Speaker 15 He pled guilty to second-degree murder and essentially 15 to 20 years. And also, he agreed to a a full debriefing about what happened between he and James.

Speaker 5 It was such a sense of relief

Speaker 5 that he was

Speaker 5 finally

Speaker 5 going to answer

Speaker 5 for what he had done.

Speaker 4 You needed one more thing, though.

Speaker 5 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 5 James.

Speaker 5 Who's what, James?

Speaker 4 That depended on Howard and his confession. Would he finally reveal what really happened to James that hot August afternoon? And would he share the secret of where to find him?

Speaker 5 I was scared. I don't know what to do.

Speaker 2 Coming up, tracing a killer's footsteps to try to find James.

Speaker 11 We walk to the edge of the bridge. He looks and he's looking.
He's like, this is familiar.

Speaker 11 You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can be.

Speaker 4 Finally, after nearly four years, the man who morphed from homicide Howie to Bible college student to newlywed

Speaker 4 was ready to confess and solve the mystery of his own making about what happened to James Chambers and where his body was hidden.

Speaker 5 I don't know why

Speaker 5 I did what I did.

Speaker 4 Howard showed little emotion as he started spilling his dark secret, which first began when he gave James a ride home in a truck similar to this one.

Speaker 4 Later that afternoon, Howard took James to the Benson's house where he lived.

Speaker 4 Howard recalled during the drive, James said he wanted to go see a guy to collect a debt and would beat him up if he didn't pay, which Howard didn't want to do.

Speaker 4 Howard said James got upset, things got heated, then got ugly.

Speaker 5 I just wanted to scare him and tell him to back off basically.

Speaker 5 Went back to my truck and I picked up the rifle and I didn't even look through the scope or nothing. I just raised up and squeezed the trigger off.

Speaker 5 I was waiting for him to come out yelling at me to say, did you just try to kill me? But

Speaker 5 nothing happened.

Speaker 5 You know,

Speaker 5 then I realized

Speaker 5 I was in trouble.

Speaker 4 He alludes to the fact that shooting James was perhaps an accident. Did you buy that? No.

Speaker 11 No, not one bit.

Speaker 11 You don't grab a hunting rifle and accidentally shoot through the cab of the truck.

Speaker 5 I put my hand up there and there was no pulse or nothing and he wasn't breathing.

Speaker 4 James died instantly.

Speaker 4 Howard detailed how he dumped the body in the woods behind the Benson's house.

Speaker 4 Hours later, Howard said he and his friend Reno Parks went back to where he left it.

Speaker 4 There, in the dark woods, Howard lit a campfire so he could see.

Speaker 4 Then, he admitted he tried to burn the body, but it didn't work.

Speaker 4 So Howard said Reno helped him bury it.

Speaker 4 Then, some two weeks later, when Howard learned detectives were zeroing in on him, he said he got nervous, dug up the body, and dismembered the remains.

Speaker 5 You put the body in three bags? Yes. I wanted it to be able to

Speaker 5 be easier to handle.

Speaker 4 Easier to handle, said Howard, when he took the bags and drove with Reno to a rural bridge, where he tossed them into a creek below.

Speaker 10 It was that weekend. Yeah,

Speaker 4 when Detective Donegan read the transcript of Howard's grim confession to Rachel, it instantly triggered memories of all those Facebook posts she'd seen.

Speaker 5 As he was reading it, I went, he posted that.

Speaker 5 He posted that.

Speaker 5 Fire.

Speaker 5 Dismember it.

Speaker 4 He had been giving you all along a roadmap

Speaker 4 to what had happened to James.

Speaker 5 Yes, he had.

Speaker 5 Everything except for one.

Speaker 4 The one crucial detail. Where was James?

Speaker 4 Howard, as part of his plea deal, was supposed to help detectives find the remains.

Speaker 4 A week after the confession, Donegan took Howard and his attorney to the scene of the crime, the Benson property. I'll think he can go in.

Speaker 4 Nothing of note turned up there. So now they headed off looking for the bridge where Howard said he dumped James's body.

Speaker 4 Does he know where to go?

Speaker 8 Completely clueless.

Speaker 11 He just knows it is a bridge in Samson County that's concrete.

Speaker 4 How many bridges are like that?

Speaker 11 We narrowed it down to 12 to 15 bridges.

Speaker 4 For a week, they crisscrossed the rural county, surveying every bridge.

Speaker 11 We went by probably about 10, 11 bridges, and it was all no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 4 Then a local deputy gave Donegan the location of a bridge that seemed to match Howard's description.

Speaker 11 We walked to the edge of the bridge. He looks and he's looking.
He's like, this is familiar.

Speaker 4 They searched the area, but some four years after the murder, there was no trace of James.

Speaker 4 Soon after the search, Howard was sentenced to a maximum of 20 years in prison. At his court appearance, covered by local media, Howard Howard was actually caught on camera smiling.

Speaker 6 If I could have got to him, I'd be in jail.

Speaker 6 Because I lost it that day because now here he is actually confessing in front of me to killing my son.

Speaker 4 Did he apologize? Did he show any remorse?

Speaker 6 No, never.

Speaker 5 Never turned around and looked at anybody.

Speaker 6 Cold.

Speaker 4 A few months later, another search was done around the bridge that Howard had seemed to remember. But again, nothing.

Speaker 4 Another year passed. Still, no hint of James.
Time didn't heal the pain for his parents, who vowed to keep searching.

Speaker 6 I'm still not going to stop till my son's laid to rest.

Speaker 4 Was it kind of the first thing you thought of when you woke up, the last thing you thought of when you wanted to be?

Speaker 6 To this day,

Speaker 6 it's that way.

Speaker 6 Before I go to bed, when I wake up, it's all day.

Speaker 6 You literally cannot stop thinking about it.

Speaker 4 But maybe there was someone who could help. Someone who drove with Howard to the bridge where he threw those bags with James' remains into the creek below.

Speaker 7 It's going to be Reno and Reno only that can get us to the bottom of it.

Speaker 4 Reno Parks. Remember, P.I.
David Marshburn interviewed him three years earlier. Now, Marshburn knew that Reno's statement about the murder was very similar to Howard's confession.

Speaker 4 So he went to visit Reno in prison again to get specifics on the bridge where James's remains were dumped.

Speaker 7 You remember the bridge you talked about with solid concrete?

Speaker 53 Was it like that?

Speaker 7 No, it was solid concrete, but there was no metal guardrail.

Speaker 5 No, there wasn't metal guardrail.

Speaker 7 That's the Keener Bridge.

Speaker 4 The very same bridge Howard seemed to recognize. Now, Marshburn and others wanted to check it again.
So another search was mobilized in April 2021.

Speaker 4 For two long days, search teams tracked both land and water looking for any remnant of James.

Speaker 4 There were a few findings, like this cell phone, ZTE, can you see what year it is, but it didn't belong to James.

Speaker 5 A bone

Speaker 44 this big, yeah.

Speaker 4 Neither did this bone, which turned out to be from an animal.

Speaker 4 As the sun began to set, reality set in too.

Speaker 4 James still wasn't coming home. Not on this day.

Speaker 4 Do you still believe that you can find him?

Speaker 6 Yes, they find missing people all the time.

Speaker 6 He'll be found. What keeps me going is the fact that my son is laying in a creek bed somewhere,

Speaker 6 like a piece of trash.

Speaker 6 And that's not going to happen.

Speaker 4 We reached out to Howard in prison to ask if he remembered any more about where he hid the remains of James Chambers.

Speaker 4 He never responded. If he knows, he's not sane.

Speaker 19 Who does this?

Speaker 19 Confession means that you tell the truth. But I don't think he has.

Speaker 19 And I think he knows that he hasn't. But in the end, Karma drives a big bus and she knows everybody's address.

Speaker 4 Even without Howard's help, David Marshburn remains optimistic.

Speaker 4 He's even hoping that Reno Parks, who is now out of prison, can be convinced to help confirm exactly where Howard dumped James's remains.

Speaker 7 We'll keep coming back and coming back. It might take five more years, seven more years, but it's all in God's time, not ours.

Speaker 4 For Rachel, those long trips to North Carolina to search for her son continue.

Speaker 4 A promise is a promise, and one she intends to keep until she can bring James home and bury him next to his brother.

Speaker 4 Every step I take out here, I'm walking with grief. To finally take away the where are you is when our peace and our healing will begin.

Speaker 4 You'll keep making those drives, hmm?

Speaker 5 It's all I got left to give him,

Speaker 5 and he's worth every mile

Speaker 2 that's all for now i'm lester holt thanks for joining us

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