Scorned

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Speaker 10 Hello, I'm Keith Morrison.

Speaker 17 Love, infatuation, desire.

Speaker 20 You can inspire people to do wonderful things and not so wonderful things.

Speaker 14 Bad behavior, sadly, is an all-too-common destination for people at the end of love.

Speaker 24 People are hurt.

Speaker 25 Then generally move on.

Speaker 22 Generally.

Speaker 14 But sometimes the end of love is as convoluted and confusing as,

Speaker 23 well,

Speaker 25 this unforgettable unforgettable tale of reality turned on its head, which made it very hard to tell who was who and what was what, in this story called Scorned.

Speaker 16 It was dark when they started searching, dark and cold, the 5th of December 2015, just across the night black Missouri from Omaha.

Speaker 32 Back and forth went the chopper as squad cars prowled the park, Big Lake Park, Iowa, looking for a shooter.

Speaker 36 I've been shot in the leg.

Speaker 37 Looking for whoever shot her.

Speaker 39 The woman who'd come out here alone to clear her mind, get that nemesis out of her head, and instead was bleeding through a hole shot clean through her thigh.

Speaker 35 Is there any serious bleeding?

Speaker 35 Oh, my, my finger leg is filled with blood.

Speaker 7 Oh, Jesus.

Speaker 2 Oh, she knew who did it, she said, as they patched up her wounded leg.

Speaker 21 She knew all too well how deadly that crazy woman could be.

Speaker 47 So she gets to shoot somebody, and then she gets to kill another person, and then she gets to move in with Damien, and she gets to be free, and you guys aren't arresting her.

Speaker 7 She?

Speaker 49 Who was she?

Speaker 46 That furious woman scorned.

Speaker 44 And what horrors was she capable of to eliminate her rivals, to win or punish the one man she so desperately wanted?

Speaker 14 The man who didn't want her.

Speaker 54 It began, as these things often do, on an innocent and ordinary day in Omaha, Nebraska, three years earlier.

Speaker 16 the fall of 2012.

Speaker 57 I'm working, I'm behind the counter, I'm doing 10 things.

Speaker 58 It happened in an auto repair shop to a mechanic named Dave Krupa.

Speaker 57 She walks in, I see her, we meet eyes, and just for a moment I kind of stop and I go, well, hello.

Speaker 27 He was working. She wanted her SUV repaired.

Speaker 57 And, you know, in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, wow, she's gorgeous, but I'm at work. I'm representing the company I work for.
That's off the table. It's not a possibility.

Speaker 60 But did you detect a little sort of signal coming back your way?

Speaker 36 I thought I did.

Speaker 17 And then a few weeks later, it seemed like fate.

Speaker 61 Dave went on a dating website and there she was.

Speaker 17 Her profile, her picture, her name, Carrie.

Speaker 43 He started typing.

Speaker 57 I just said, hey, I know you, haha.

Speaker 57 And she replied, same thing.

Speaker 13 And then before long, Carrie came into his shop again.

Speaker 57 Without saying anything, there's kind of some sparks flying. We're looking at each other like we're both trying and wanting to say something.
And

Speaker 57 we did. And we exchanged phone numbers.

Speaker 64 They had dinner.

Speaker 38 The food didn't matter.

Speaker 57 And we were very, I would say, enthralled with each other.

Speaker 37 He invited Carrie back to his place, and she agreed.

Speaker 65 And that's when something else happened.

Speaker 58 Didn't seem so important, not then, not like it would later.

Speaker 42 Just as they walked into the apartment, the doorbell rang.

Speaker 66 It was Dave's ex-girlfriend, Liz, here to pick up some things she'd left behind in his apartment.

Speaker 24 Awkward.

Speaker 26 But Carrie just laughed, bowed out.

Speaker 57 She said, ah, I get it. It's not a big deal.
I'm going to go home. You call me when you're done dealing with this mess.

Speaker 50 So Dave escorted Carrie to the door.

Speaker 57 And her and Liz passed each other at that moment.

Speaker 57 There were no words spoken.

Speaker 63 Did it start then at that moment?

Speaker 69 Later, once Liz left his apartment, Dave called Carrie.

Speaker 57 And she invited me out to her place, which was like an hour drive outside of town. Carrie, when I got to her place, we were there 20 minutes making coffee, BSing.

Speaker 57 And of course, pretty soon we're on the couch and we're getting a little closer. Now at this point we haven't even kissed.

Speaker 57 And she turns to me and she said, look, if we're going to have sex, that's all it is.

Speaker 57 Period. There's nothing more to it.

Speaker 57 And asked me, are you good with that? Is that going to to be a problem? And of course, my eyes lit up and I'm like, ping, I hit the powerball.

Speaker 6 Because Dave felt exactly the same way.

Speaker 57 As a man, I want companionship, so I'm always looking for a girlfriend,

Speaker 57 but never a committed relationship.

Speaker 71 And you let them know that this is the way it's got to be.

Speaker 57 That was the first conversation.

Speaker 57 Take it or leave it, that's how it is.

Speaker 27 But with Carrie, he didn't have to bring it up.

Speaker 57 It was all her. Yeah.

Speaker 57 And we hit it off right from there.

Speaker 52 Carrie told him she was a computer programmer.

Speaker 2 Her office was close to his apartment.

Speaker 73 They met there often, made love, talked.

Speaker 57 She was extremely intelligent. She was much smarter than I am.

Speaker 57 Just in general, she just, she had a brain on her.

Speaker 51 Different than the women you had dated before?

Speaker 39 The majority of them, yeah.

Speaker 57 Yeah, she, well, for instance, what she did for a living, programming. I consider myself a little bit of a computer nerd, but compared to her, I didn't even know what a computer was.

Speaker 49 Dave reconsidered his no-commitment rule, a rule he'd broken before, with a woman named Amy Flora.

Speaker 74 They had two kids together, but it didn't last.

Speaker 75 After 12 years, you would think there would be some kind of a proposal or something, but like I said, he's kind of emotionless, so.

Speaker 69 He really didn't want to get married.

Speaker 77 No.

Speaker 75 And I wanted to eventually be married, you know. I mean, every girl does.
Everybody wants their fairy tale wedding.

Speaker 78 Amy and Dave stayed friendly for the sake of their kids.

Speaker 80 And Amy knew about Dave's other women, heard about Carrie.

Speaker 10 You expected you would meet her at some point if it continued?

Speaker 75 Well, if it continued, yeah, I would have liked to have met her.

Speaker 68 But Amy didn't meet Carrie. Not then.

Speaker 14 No idea what was coming.

Speaker 54 Early that November of 2012, Carrie told Dave she had a big project at work.

Speaker 53 She'd stay over at his place instead of driving home to the country every night.

Speaker 63 And so they began their work week together.

Speaker 17 And then on Tuesday, November 13th.

Speaker 57 Yeah, I gave her a kiss on the way out the door.

Speaker 26 You know, like, hi, see you later, honey.

Speaker 83 That kind of thing.

Speaker 57 You know, it was almost like a...

Speaker 57 That sort of 50s TV show garbage.

Speaker 63 That doesn't sound like a guy who's got no attachment.

Speaker 57 Well, I didn't say honey, but that's the way it changed my progress, you know.

Speaker 57 But she brought that out of me. That's why I say with Carrie, it was potential that long-term it might might have been different.

Speaker 16 So when you went off to work that day, you're in a pretty good mood.

Speaker 13 Oh, hell yeah, I was in a great mood.

Speaker 82 This beautiful lady was going to be in my house when I got home.

Speaker 45 I don't know who wins fall about that.

Speaker 29 Dave was at his shop by 6.30, entirely unprepared.

Speaker 18 And then.

Speaker 57 By 10 o'clock, I receive a text from her that says, do you want to move in with me? Or should we need to move in together or something along those lines? Really?

Speaker 57 But immediately I text her back, no, I'm not interested. We've known each other two weeks, it's not going to happen.

Speaker 57 As soon as I text her back, I get a text back that says, fine, I don't ever want to see you again.

Speaker 57 Go away, I'm dating somebody else, I hate you, on and on and on and on and on.

Speaker 7 Weird.

Speaker 57 Very weird. Very,

Speaker 57 what is going on here?

Speaker 57 But I was at work. It was very busy.
I didn't have time for that nonsense.

Speaker 57 So in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, phew, I dodged a bullet there.

Speaker 40 Oh, but he didn't.

Speaker 81 No.

Speaker 36 Now,

Speaker 50 it was just beginning.

Speaker 26 So, this is the woman from hell now, all of a sudden.

Speaker 10 Who was this mysterious woman named Carrie?

Speaker 3 She was about to vanish in a very mysterious way.

Speaker 86 I started getting text messages saying she was going to Kansas to live totally off the wall.

Speaker 41 Where is she?

Speaker 87 I didn't know what to think at that point.

Speaker 69 Dave Krupa, the man who liked his sex life uncommitted, was confused.

Speaker 88 The woman who seemed to share his philosophy had turned on him, was behaving like a woman who expected something from him, like a woman scorned.

Speaker 63 Suddenly, she wanted to move in, and when he refused, she responded with a non-stop staccato of angry, often misspelled texts.

Speaker 85 Carrie.

Speaker 61 Now, that name sounded like his personal horror show.

Speaker 46 So, this is the woman from hell now, all of a sudden.

Speaker 57 Yeah, or in the course of a couple of hours.

Speaker 24 Wow.

Speaker 62 Maybe to Dave in Omaha, that's how it seemed.

Speaker 53 But an hour's drive away, there was quite a different story.

Speaker 88 Here in this tiny, sweet farming town called Macedonia, Iowa.

Speaker 86 I think there's only around 250 people that live there now. It's very...

Speaker 86 It's just home.

Speaker 26 Home to Carrie.

Speaker 3 Carrie Farver.

Speaker 18 And where she was raised by her stepfather Mark and her mother Nancy, who would stick with Carrie through it all.

Speaker 79 But of course, they'd always known there was something different about Carrie.

Speaker 86 She felt like she wanted to do her own thing and sometimes that

Speaker 24 always go well, yeah.

Speaker 91 Thing is, Carrie was smart, super smart.

Speaker 7 School was easy, but then so were boys.

Speaker 92 Guys were just drawn to her.

Speaker 31 And she liked it.

Speaker 40 Yeah, she did.

Speaker 82 Hello, Killie.

Speaker 4 But there was something else about Carrie, said her friend Holly Drummond.

Speaker 61 Brainy, yes, but She sometimes made dubious choices.

Speaker 79 Like when she was away at college and there was this guy, one of a parade of guys.

Speaker 92 She would constantly talk about this night where they were all dressed up and it was midnight and they were walking in the streets with a bottle of champagne. I mean, she made it sound like,

Speaker 92 she made it sound like a romantic movie.

Speaker 60 Didn't last, even when Carrie found out she was pregnant.

Speaker 16 Did it come as a surprise?

Speaker 26 Yes.

Speaker 92 Yeah.

Speaker 86 I was just, I knew what she was going to have to go through because I had been divorced with children, young children.

Speaker 36 In his heart. Not easy.

Speaker 52 She moved home, took computer courses, and she named the baby Maxwell.

Speaker 91 Everyone called him Max.

Speaker 86 She was such a good mother.

Speaker 86 But I know she had so much on her plate, too, at that time when she was going to school and everything else. But she did very well.
She held up very well.

Speaker 40 Except, that is, for the mood swings, the dreadful depressions.

Speaker 86 She just would go under the covers and sleep and she'd just, you know, she'd hibernate. She'd close herself off from everything.

Speaker 95 It's hard for a mother to watch her dad go through that.

Speaker 41 It is.

Speaker 86 Trying to get it out of her, you know, what can I do? And there's really nothing that I can do or say.

Speaker 7 But it got better.

Speaker 69 Once Carrie was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, medication evened things out.

Speaker 11 And Carrie and Max settled into an apparently happy and successful life.

Speaker 25 And then that inexplicable turn.

Speaker 29 Carrie had just started that high-tech job of hers in Omaha.

Speaker 86 She really liked that job.

Speaker 2 What was she doing?

Speaker 86 She was computer programming.

Speaker 11 And then, November 2012, she took on that big project.

Speaker 20 Max, who was a teenager then, he understood about her long hours and how she'd decided to stay in the city for a few days.

Speaker 14 didn't ask about the man she'd be staying with.

Speaker 87 I didn't know Dave at the time. I just had heard of a Dave.

Speaker 87 That was about it.

Speaker 34 She didn't talk about him?

Speaker 26 No.

Speaker 87 Usually things like that she didn't really talk to me about.

Speaker 45 Dave, that's all her family knew.

Speaker 86 She was in a very good place. I mean she had been for a long time.
And

Speaker 86 I didn't think too much about it.

Speaker 61 And so that weekend, Nancy picked up Max and later Carrie drove off to Omaha to spend the week with Dave.

Speaker 73 She didn't text me or anything that Monday.

Speaker 86 And then I started getting text messages saying that she had quit her job, she was going to Kansas to live. And

Speaker 49 what was it like to get there?

Speaker 86 It was totally off the wall.

Speaker 15 That was about the same time Dave was getting those angry texts, though Nancy had no idea about that.

Speaker 34 Anyway, Carrie's news came as a big surprise to Nancy.

Speaker 79 Though to Max, maybe not so much.

Speaker 87 Because she had something down in Kansas that she was going to be going and interviewing for after those few days at work.

Speaker 79 His mom had mentioned a possible job change.

Speaker 16 She even discussed with him staying with Grandma to finish high school.

Speaker 7 And then, early that weird week.

Speaker 87 I got a text saying, hey, I got a second interview.

Speaker 43 But she'd be back from Kansas on the weekend, she texted, for a family wedding, at which Max was an usher.

Speaker 45 But as the bride walked down the aisle, no sign of Carrie.

Speaker 87 I was just like, okay, she's she's just running late, she'll be at the reception, she'll be there for the party and everything.

Speaker 87 But at the party, I remember probably every five to ten minutes I was glancing back at the door, just hoping.

Speaker 41 Where is she?

Speaker 87 Yeah, just wondering where she was. I just kept saying, Oh, she'll be here any minute, be here any minute.
Midnight got around, and she wasn't there. And

Speaker 87 I didn't know what to think at that point.

Speaker 39 Unsettling doubts about Carrie's story.

Speaker 61 Was she moving or was she missing?

Speaker 86 I could just feel it in my bones. Something wasn't right here.

Speaker 83 I wasn't sure what was going on.

Speaker 86 It scared me tremendously, and I thought, I've got to do something.

Speaker 80 Long as he could remember, Max Farver believed he knew his mom Carrie as well as anybody possibly could.

Speaker 87 We were definitely really close. I was her second opinion on most things.

Speaker 27 So when Carrie was a no-show at the wedding, Max knew something was way off.

Speaker 26 I wasn't sure what was going on, but I just knew something was wrong.

Speaker 86 I could just feel it in my bones. It was something...

Speaker 86 something wasn't right here.

Speaker 29 Nancy didn't tell her grandson about the truly disturbing text she'd received from Carrie.

Speaker 61 This one didn't say anything about a new job.

Speaker 78 Instead, Carrie texted she broke up with her boyfriend and was thinking about checking into a mental hospital.

Speaker 86 Yep, it scared you. Yes, it scared me tremendously.

Speaker 52 By boyfriend, did she mean this mysterious Dave?

Speaker 42 Did you know how to reach this guy or even what his last name was?

Speaker 86 I didn't know how

Speaker 86 to start looking for.

Speaker 41 So what is that like?

Speaker 36 It's

Speaker 24 hell.

Speaker 86 It's just

Speaker 86 frustration and just helplessness.

Speaker 16 So before dropping off Max at the wedding, she called the county sheriff's office to file a missing persons report.

Speaker 86 They took down all the information, of course, and they couldn't.

Speaker 86 They didn't really offer too much.

Speaker 16 Well, I guess they thought, well, she's a grown woman.

Speaker 3 She can leave if she wants to leave.

Speaker 64 Nancy told the deputies about Carrie's struggles with bipolar disorder.

Speaker 37 And here's what they told her, said Nancy.

Speaker 86 Well, she's probably off her medicine, and, you know, these things happen, and so that happens a lot.

Speaker 98 Nancy tried calling, but Carrie just wouldn't pick up.

Speaker 5 She did respond to texts, but sent mixed messages.

Speaker 86 I'm moving down with this Dave. I had no idea who this Dave was.

Speaker 11 It was confusing.

Speaker 53 Did she have some sort of mental breakdown?

Speaker 28 Terry quit her job in Omaha, sent her company a text to let them know, and texted her mom that she was taking that job in Kansas and moving away, and had sold her furniture.

Speaker 53 She attached a photo of a check from the buyer.

Speaker 16 Carrie wanted Nancy to let the buyer pick it up out in Macedonia and take it away.

Speaker 86 And I said, absolutely not. I said, either you call me, you come to see me.

Speaker 86 I'm not doing anything until I hear you. And that's when the nasty text started.
What did she say then? That I was a bad mother. And she said, I'm going to take Max.

Speaker 24 We're going to leave.

Speaker 53 Carrie texted Max, too, and let him know.

Speaker 87 You're coming with me. You have no choice.
I'm the adult here.

Speaker 87 And what I say goes.

Speaker 100 I'm just trying to imagine what it was like to be you in the middle of that situation.

Speaker 87 It was uh it was a bit scary because we all thought that someone might come at school to trigger me

Speaker 87 because the school would legally have to let them let me go with them.

Speaker 24 Yeah.

Speaker 87 Like if my mom showed up.

Speaker 20 Max was scared, had no idea what was going on with his mom.

Speaker 43 And he wanted to stay with his grandparents.

Speaker 86 I've heard all of these horror stories about people having these personality changes and going off the deep end. And I thought, I've got to do something about Max.
I've got to keep him safe.

Speaker 3 Nancy applied for temporary guardianship of Max. That must be so weird.

Speaker 24 Oh,

Speaker 41 fraught. Yes.

Speaker 86 And just wondering, what am I doing to my daughter?

Speaker 24 If

Speaker 86 we were doing this, the lawyer said, now this is just temporary. Now, if she comes back, you know, you can always undo this.

Speaker 86 I said, okay.

Speaker 63 Meanwhile, surely the sheriff could find her daughter, get some help.

Speaker 43 She showed them Carrie's texts about the furniture.

Speaker 69 The phone company said they were coming from a location in Omaha.

Speaker 80 Officers went there.

Speaker 8 No Carrie.

Speaker 10 Sergeant Jim Doty and Corporal Ryan Avis of the Pottawatomie County Sheriff's Office, who joined the investigation much later, said the next step was to find the woman who'd paid for the furniture.

Speaker 17 Her name was Shanna Gallier.

Speaker 102 They called her, left a voicemail, which she returned that call the next day.

Speaker 20 Shanna went by her middle name, Liz,

Speaker 61 and it turned out that was the same Liz Dave Krupa once dated.

Speaker 54 She lived in Omaha with her two kids.

Speaker 31 Liz told the cops that somebody stole her checkbook, and she suspected that somebody was the woman she ran into at Dave's place.

Speaker 37 Liz gave the detectives his contact information.

Speaker 31 She's with him and then suddenly she goes off the rails and starts doing weird stuff like this.

Speaker 61 So he must know something.

Speaker 24 Yeah,

Speaker 99 definitely a person you want to talk to.

Speaker 34 And by then, the story Dave could tell the police

Speaker 95 scary.

Speaker 57 He was drilling me with them policeman eyes.

Speaker 2 Police have some questions for Dave.

Speaker 61 She was at your house.

Speaker 68 Yes.

Speaker 96 You were the last one to see her.

Speaker 57 Was as if I'd already done something and he already knew it.

Speaker 71 Dave Cruper was upset.

Speaker 16 Maybe as upset as he'd ever been.

Speaker 42 Ever since he told Carrie that she couldn't move in with him, she'd been texting and emailing and saying awful things and making his life miserable.

Speaker 63 He tried calling her, but she didn't answer.

Speaker 28 And then, a little more than a week later, the cop showed up at his auto repair shop.

Speaker 100 How did you find out they were coming?

Speaker 80 They just showed up.

Speaker 57 Oh, yeah, there was an old warning.

Speaker 43 The detectives took him outside for a talk.

Speaker 57 And he tells me hey do you know carrie my first thought is oh that crazy one yeah what you know yeah when did you see her last oh the morning of yeah huh and okay so where is she now no idea

Speaker 57 the detective didn't seem to buy that he was drilling me with them policeman eyes them ones that are like uh

Speaker 57 you know yeah you feel like you're in the principal's office and where were you at 630 on that morning and yeah yeah no i totally had the feeling she was at your house yes you were the last one to see her and that was how he approached me was as if i had already done something and he already knew it and it's time to deal with it you know and i was like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa slow down

Speaker 57 dave tried to explain he said hey man i don't know where she's at but i've got nothing to do with it it's yeah you know i'm backpedaling as fast as i can huh i don't know where she's at and i don't want to know where she's at at that point i just want her to go away because dave told the detectives, Carrie would not stop messaging him.

Speaker 14 He showed them his phone and was adamant he had not seen her since the morning he left her at his place.

Speaker 16 Do you think they believed you when you said you didn't know where she was?

Speaker 57 I'm 100% they believe me.

Speaker 43 And then, the strangest thing, Carrie started texting the detective, too.

Speaker 34 I would really appreciate if you leave Dave Krupa out of it.

Speaker 3 The detective texted Carrie back.

Speaker 102 We can't stop looking into it. We need to locate you.
And the missing person entry won't be taken out until someone talks to you in person to where we know you are okay.

Speaker 52 Did she respond to that?

Speaker 85 She said it was pointless.

Speaker 62 She didn't want to be found.

Speaker 7 Exactly.

Speaker 68 But the detective got another text.

Speaker 13 This one seemed ominous.

Speaker 20 I want one person to go away for destroying everything for me.

Speaker 13 Who might that person be?

Speaker 64 The detective had a pretty good idea.

Speaker 61 Dave showed them texts in which Carrie blamed Liz for their breakup, even though, as he explained, he and Liz weren't even together when he met Carrie.

Speaker 91 Made sense that Carrie must have stolen Liz's checkbook all right.

Speaker 20 Maybe even forged that check for five grand.

Speaker 78 The detectives called Liz right away and told her she should file a report with the Omaha PD.

Speaker 43 It was their jurisdiction.

Speaker 36 But before she got the chance, Liz went to her garage and there, scrawled on the wall, she found the words, whore from Dave.

Speaker 46 Had to have been Carrie.

Speaker 43 All of it was so strange, thought the detectives.

Speaker 99 Very out of the ordinary.

Speaker 16 Yeah, like maybe she'd had a breakdown or something, a psychotic episode, and that would be the only answer.

Speaker 34 To the police in Omaha, Carrie was now a suspected stalker.

Speaker 61 But back home, in Pottawatomie County, Iowa, she was still a missing person with a very worried family.

Speaker 16 Carrie's mother heard about the threatening texts, the harassment, the police reports filed against her daughter.

Speaker 7 To her, it didn't seem like Carrie at all.

Speaker 56 And it made her wonder, how serious were the police about finding her daughter?

Speaker 86 I got a little callous towards the authorities, thinking that

Speaker 86 I didn't think they were doing quite as what they should have been doing.

Speaker 100 Did you get the feeling you just wanted to get in there and storm the barricades and make something happen?

Speaker 24 Yeah.

Speaker 86 But again, I didn't know how much I could do, and I didn't know where to start.

Speaker 15 Carrie had been gone for almost two weeks.

Speaker 64 Thanksgiving, a day away.

Speaker 61 Nancy sent Carrie a message on Facebook.

Speaker 15 I've got a roast in the crock pot, and we'll eat about six.

Speaker 63 We're going to dad's for Thanksgiving and eating about noon or one.

Speaker 17 We love you, Carrie.

Speaker 61 Carrie didn't respond and didn't show up for Thanksgiving dinner.

Speaker 63 Less than a month later, Nancy's ex-husband, Carrie's father, died of cancer.

Speaker 79 Carrie didn't come to the funeral.

Speaker 52 Instead, she sent a message on Facebook, I'm sorry I missed the funeral.

Speaker 90 And just a few days before that, she posted on Facebook, David Krupa proposed to me.

Speaker 39 I said yes.

Speaker 69 What in heaven's name was going on?

Speaker 5 Nancy called the detectives, who called Dave, who swore no way he was engaged to Carrie.

Speaker 5 He said he hadn't even seen her, but still heard from her constantly, a hail of texts and emails that was only getting thicker.

Speaker 57 I would get 50, 60 a day.

Speaker 39 A day?

Speaker 57 Oh, yeah, all day long. It at one point rendered my phone completely useless.
It would just be digging so much I couldn't answer a phone or send a text.

Speaker 53 Make you want to change your phone number, wouldn't it?

Speaker 57 I did that a couple of times.

Speaker 72 You did, and they still kept coming.

Speaker 58 They did.

Speaker 72 Occasionally, Carrie's texts seemed almost normal.

Speaker 15 I know I ruined it.

Speaker 43 I tell myself, don't be crazy, this guy was nice to you, but something takes over.

Speaker 13 But mostly the emails and messages were angry rants about perceived romantic rivals, Liz Gallier, in particular.

Speaker 72 She's a whore.

Speaker 8 You shouldn't be with someone like that.

Speaker 42 I hope we can see each other soon.

Speaker 17 And then, with a shudder, Dave realized Carrie did see him.

Speaker 61 She seemed to be watching his every move.

Speaker 57 It was very common for me to get messages, emails from whatever that say, oh, I see you through your window, you're doing this. And I'd go, I am doing this.
Okay, great.

Speaker 57 And I'd haul ass outside, go looking for somebody, because somebody knows what I'm doing.

Speaker 2 Even more disturbing, Carrie messaged Dave.

Speaker 15 that she'd taken his extra apartment key and had been coming and going when he wasn't there.

Speaker 63 Liz got unsettling emails too.

Speaker 34 I'm out in your garage, so what should I do to your car?

Speaker 61 I see my handiwork is still on the wall.

Speaker 50 Attached to the email, a photo to prove Carrie was there.

Speaker 4 Eventually, the messages got threatening.

Speaker 61 Carrie wrote Dave a note claiming she'd kidnapped Liz.

Speaker 16 You will do exactly as I say, and then I will let her go.

Speaker 34 Do it or say goodbye to her.

Speaker 2 Attached was this photo: a woman bound.

Speaker 11 Couldn't see her face, but was that Liz?

Speaker 57 I told her, BS, that's crock of crap. I don't believe you.
Go away, leave me alone.

Speaker 20 Through it all, Carrie remained invisible. Even after she texted Dave, she was moving into an apartment building nearby.

Speaker 31 Yes, a couple of buildings away.

Speaker 33 Why, does that bother you?

Speaker 14 I'm only doing month to month till I find something else.

Speaker 85 Dave told the cops, of course.

Speaker 20 They went looking for Carrie.

Speaker 57 And the building number was correct, but the apartment number did not exist?

Speaker 16 Carrie was still nowhere to be found.

Speaker 23 But near the complex, Dave did find something that belonged to Carrie.

Speaker 5 A crucial discovery, almost buried in the snow.

Speaker 3 And the danger escalates.

Speaker 57 It was like, what in the hell?

Speaker 9 Into something deadly.

Speaker 103 It's like you're on edge as to what's going to happen next.

Speaker 22 Big snow in Omaha that winter of 2012-13.

Speaker 32 The winter Carrie Farver's texts were driving Dave Krupa crazy.

Speaker 46 Blizzards were nothing compared to them.

Speaker 88 And worse, said Dave, the skin-crawling feeling that she was stalking him, spying on him.

Speaker 28 But always like a ghost.

Speaker 52 When he looked, she was gone.

Speaker 79 Then, one day, about two months after it started, Dave was driving home from his shop.

Speaker 57 And I'm coming through the parking lot, and I noticed the truck there because it still had all the snow on it. And when I got up close, I'm like, oh, it's an explorer.
Oh, it's the right color.

Speaker 68 Hmm.

Speaker 57 So I called the sheriff and said, I'm pretty sure I found her truck.

Speaker 64 He was right.

Speaker 3 It was Carrie's SUV, still half buried in the snow.

Speaker 99 They impounded it. We had a crime scene tech process it, and it was really clean.

Speaker 78 They did a thorough investigation.

Speaker 99 Yeah, they dusted it for prints, and they found a fingerprint inside and recovered that.

Speaker 52 The fingerprint was found on a mint container in the cup holder of the SUV.

Speaker 43 They ran the print through the national database.

Speaker 54 No hits.

Speaker 89 But if Carrie wasn't using her SUV, at least certainly not daily, her presence was as unavoidable as ever.

Speaker 63 What with the texts and emails, graffiti, threatening photos sent to both Dave Krupa and Liz Gallier.

Speaker 88 County detectives made sure to do a phone dump from both of their devices to preserve the evidence and perhaps figure out where Carrie was.

Speaker 28 There was even a link to a fake obituary for Liz.

Speaker 15 Go see what I made for the whore.

Speaker 33 I will kill her.

Speaker 43 And they already made her obituary, so it's done.

Speaker 4 Then, minutes later, I'm trying to hire someone to get rid of that whore Liz for us.

Speaker 69 You told me before you wanted her gone.

Speaker 2 Do we want to pay just for the whore or her two kids, too?

Speaker 42 I hope to see you soon.

Speaker 44 Your beautiful Carrie.

Speaker 42 Trying to enlist you in your scheme and totally kill Liz.

Speaker 57 Yeah, totally, yeah.

Speaker 57 Yeah, that was a very interesting read the first time I read that. It was like, oh my,

Speaker 57 what in the hell?

Speaker 13 Carrie didn't seem to realize that her ongoing harassment was actually pushing Dave and Liz back together.

Speaker 67 You compared notes on the harassment you were?

Speaker 57 Oh, we'd spend hours talking about it, showing each other texts and emails we got, and yeah, it was kind of comforting each other.

Speaker 85 Yeah.

Speaker 78 Who else would understand, right?

Speaker 57 Exactly. Nobody else did understand.

Speaker 20 And now Dave and Liz were regulars of the Omaha PD, filing one complaint after another against Carrie.

Speaker 63 Like the time they reported that Carrie had broken Dave's apartment window.

Speaker 34 And that's when Detective Chris LeGro stepped in to investigate.

Speaker 103 He says, yeah, it's her. She's done this to me before.

Speaker 103 He identifies a photo of her, shows me, you know, some text messages that she had made a text referencing the fact that she broke out his window.

Speaker 72 LeGro could see the attacks were escalating from angry texts to theft and then vandalism and threats of physical harm.

Speaker 9 He obtained an arrest warrant for Carrie Farver.

Speaker 77 Not that he had much hope of finding her.

Speaker 42 He knew Carrie was a computer expert, probably using software to disguise the phones and computers her messages came from.

Speaker 103 I thought, well, maybe this must be some kind of avenue she's utilizing because

Speaker 103 just nothing's there. We can't find her.

Speaker 50 Weeks passed, and each time Dave and Liz were hit with an even more outrageous barrage, LeGreux would look again and again not find Carrie.

Speaker 14 And yet it all seemed to be leading somewhere bad.

Speaker 34 Were Dave and Liz afraid?

Speaker 103 Oh yes, it's not so much you're terrified of the individual, it's like you're on edge as to what's going to happen next.

Speaker 20 And sure enough, what happened next was terrifying.

Speaker 9 Early Saturday morning, August 17th, Liz called Dave frantic.

Speaker 57 My house burned down. Oh my god, it's that crazy person, Terry, stalking me again.

Speaker 26 Wow.

Speaker 15 Liz had been in in the middle of moving out.

Speaker 43 She and her kids were already sleeping at their new place, but she went back to the old place that Saturday morning to pick up more of their things.

Speaker 20 And instead, she had to call the Omaha Fire Department.

Speaker 96 They responded right away, and later, so did Detective Legro.

Speaker 103 The inside of the house was pretty charred and burned, and the

Speaker 103 smoke damage.

Speaker 13 Big damage. Sufficient, yes.

Speaker 103 Really could have ended up burning down the house, but just didn't quite get to that point.

Speaker 5 But it was deadly enough.

Speaker 3 Liz had two two dogs, one cat, and a pet snake.

Speaker 14 All were still in the house.

Speaker 58 All of them were found dead.

Speaker 32 Neighbors across the street said they saw a woman in a car parked outside Liz's house a few weeks before the fire.

Speaker 63 Detective LeGros showed them a photo of Carrie.

Speaker 13 The neighbors said they couldn't be sure, but she had the same general appearance.

Speaker 34 An email to Dave made no secret of who did it.

Speaker 91 I am not lying. I set that nasty whore's house on fire.

Speaker 10 I hope the whore and her kids die in it.

Speaker 3 And later, Carrie to Liz.

Speaker 79 Hope you and your kids burn to death.

Speaker 103 Once you get into situations like arson or threats to an individual's life or to those around them, their children, the ex-boyfriend, certainly you're going to take that much more seriously.

Speaker 61 Suddenly, the case against Carrie looked very serious indeed.

Speaker 8 But still, like smoke from the fire, she vanished.

Speaker 103 What I did was try and find some way of seeing if somebody saw her.

Speaker 103 And again, came up with nothing. Over and over again, nothing.

Speaker 53 By this time, said Dave, he was afraid she'd try to attack his kids, too.

Speaker 100 What did she say when she threatened your kids, for example?

Speaker 26 Oh,

Speaker 57 something along the lines of slit your children's throats.

Speaker 12 Wow.

Speaker 39 That's pretty hard to read.

Speaker 37 It took a toll, said Dave.

Speaker 57 For a while there, I was drinking heavily, heavily, which is not me.

Speaker 57 There's never been a time in my life where I was a real drinker, and I was drinking until the bar closed and going to work at six o'clock in the morning.

Speaker 62 Wow.

Speaker 88 And you bought a gun?

Speaker 7 Sure.

Speaker 36 Yeah.

Speaker 7 Yeah.

Speaker 46 Why?

Speaker 57 For my safety, my children's safety, for just protection in general, because I didn't know.

Speaker 61 So Dave and Liz kept watch in the city, wary, fearful.

Speaker 21 While out in Macedonia, Carrie's family was coping with a whole different set of emotions: emptiness, grief, and a terrible, gnawing uncertainty.

Speaker 65 Nancy had sent several pleading messages.

Speaker 105 Come home.

Speaker 20 Carrie, you're my daughter, and I'll always love you no matter what.

Speaker 63 We just need to see you, hear your voice, know where you are.

Speaker 88 I love you so much.

Speaker 9 You're my little girl.

Speaker 68 Come home.

Speaker 21 For a parent, for a mother.

Speaker 24 I don't know

Speaker 95 do you characterize this episode in your life?

Speaker 3 How do you talk about those feelings and make sense of them?

Speaker 86 There was no making sense of it.

Speaker 97 Total loss.

Speaker 95 What happened to Carrie Farmer?

Speaker 91 And why?

Speaker 69 News like a lightning bolt for a family in anguish.

Speaker 15 Someone claimed to have seen Carrie.

Speaker 86 My heart was just racing like crazy.

Speaker 3 Could it be?

Speaker 39 After all this time?

Speaker 41 I knew she wouldn't just vanish.

Speaker 94 Where was Carrie Farver?

Speaker 20 Everyone wanted to know, especially her family.

Speaker 61 What was it like at Christmas time without her?

Speaker 73 That was hard.

Speaker 36 That was hard.

Speaker 61 Christmas was once magic for Max here in Macedonia, a celebration of his amazing bond with his mother, of little things like their family's gift opening traditions.

Speaker 87 At our house, instead of everyone just kind of going at once, we go by age and do rounds at Christmas.

Speaker 87 And just going from me to grandma just seemed wrong.

Speaker 24 Well, it was wrong.

Speaker 106 And you kind of had to bottle it up, didn't you?

Speaker 36 Kind of.

Speaker 86 He didn't show his emotion too much to me because he knew that I was...

Speaker 93 You were worried. I was really worried.

Speaker 73 But I found out from his...

Speaker 86 Girlfriend's mother that he would go over to her house after school and stuff to his girlfriend's house. And

Speaker 86 her mother told me that he did a lot of crying at their house.

Speaker 97 And

Speaker 97 that bothered me, of course.

Speaker 16 There had been a sudden bit of hope after that first Christmas without Carrie in April 2013.

Speaker 62 The phone rang.

Speaker 7 On the line was a man.

Speaker 86 Saying that Carrie was at this homeless shelter in Omaha and that we were to go pick her up.

Speaker 24 What was happening in here when you were there?

Speaker 26 Oh, it just flutters.

Speaker 86 I mean,

Speaker 86 my heart was just racing like crazy.

Speaker 20 The shelter was about an hour away.

Speaker 8 Nancy, who had neither seen her daughter nor heard her voice for months, was too wrought up to drive, so she asked her brother to take her.

Speaker 86 Oh, I was so tense, and

Speaker 86 it was just, you know, trying to catch a breath and just.

Speaker 100 Did you rehearse what you'd say, what you saw?

Speaker 87 Oh, where have you been?

Speaker 86 Yeah, and I, you know, I don't care where you've been to your home.

Speaker 69 An investigator met Nancy at the shelter.

Speaker 46 He had a photo of Carrie with him.

Speaker 86 The investigator went into the shelter and showed the picture and wanted to know if there had been anybody there like her. And they said, she hasn't been here.

Speaker 41 What's that like?

Speaker 86 Well, then, you know, then your... Hopes are dashed again.
You just think, where can she be?

Speaker 80 There's a feeling that comes with realizing you're on on a wild goose chase.

Speaker 24 Yes.

Speaker 93 I went home and I thought,

Speaker 86 I can't live with this anymore. This is just too much.

Speaker 61 Again, Nancy messaged Carrie.

Speaker 90 Carrie, we were at Sienna House.

Speaker 36 Where are you?

Speaker 22 No response.

Speaker 2 But then a Facebook post weeks later.

Speaker 15 I am a grown woman, and if I feel like leaving home, I have the right.

Speaker 63 I asked my son, Max, to come with me, but you didn't want to.

Speaker 6 So when I'm ready to come back home, I will.

Speaker 13 I love you all very much, but I need time still to sort things out.

Speaker 43 Then there were posts like this one.

Speaker 71 Liz is the hoe that took my boyfriend away from me.

Speaker 20 Now I've met a really nice guy.

Speaker 7 Nancy had to wonder.

Speaker 71 Maybe it was self-delusion.

Speaker 65 But these messages just didn't sound like Carrie.

Speaker 86 Because my daughter...

Speaker 86 was so

Speaker 86 meticulous about grammar and spelling and the way it sounded.

Speaker 31 And this stuff was like what?

Speaker 86 Oh, it was just garbage. It was just...

Speaker 32 Sort of chaotic.

Speaker 86 Yes, it was chaotic. And it just, the language that was used and everything else, Gary wouldn't have used any kind of language.

Speaker 86 Definitely.

Speaker 100 Unless she had become a different sort of person.

Speaker 7 Right, yeah.

Speaker 86 So I, you know, in that, too, I'm thinking,

Speaker 107 is this the case?

Speaker 78 Had her daughter had a total breakdown?

Speaker 52 Or what if Carrie's disappearance was not what it seemed to be?

Speaker 3 What if Carrie was kidnapped?

Speaker 79 What if someone stole her identity?

Speaker 27 She asked the police about that.

Speaker 46 What do they say?

Speaker 86 And they said, Yeah, well, we'll check it out. You know, that kind of thing.

Speaker 6 Nothing came of it.

Speaker 61 But after Carrie's father died, Nancy's ex-husband, she had this weird dream.

Speaker 97 He came to me very vividly in the dream and said, Um,

Speaker 86 he said, don't worry, Nancy, she's with me.

Speaker 26 And that

Speaker 97 sounds silly,

Speaker 97 but that's when I knew.

Speaker 97 But,

Speaker 86 because I knew she wouldn't just vanish.

Speaker 52 But of course, Nancy didn't know for sure.

Speaker 86 And every time something would pop up online or we'd get a text or something, there was this hope that maybe she's still out there.

Speaker 52 Max was looking for answers his own way.

Speaker 79 About a month after Nancy went to the shelter in Omaha, Max sent his mom a message on Facebook.

Speaker 7 Hi, that was it.

Speaker 91 And then the next day, Carrie responded, Hey, little man, how are you?

Speaker 18 Max messaged back.

Speaker 66 I have three questions.

Speaker 108 Things only she would know.

Speaker 87 Yeah, things only she would know.

Speaker 79 Max asked, one, what is my middle name?

Speaker 72 Two, what was our first boxer's name, the dog?

Speaker 34 Three,

Speaker 9 who was my best friend as a little kid?

Speaker 7 And what was his response?

Speaker 26 Nothing.

Speaker 87 I never got a response to that one.

Speaker 20 Which meant what?

Speaker 6 Was that his not in her right mind, mom?

Speaker 27 Or could his grandma be right that someone had kidnapped Carrie?

Speaker 89 No way of knowing, really.

Speaker 9 And the messages kept coming, like this one for Carrie's mom.

Speaker 7 I'm not hurt, mom.

Speaker 65 I miss everyone too.

Speaker 63 I just had a breakdown and I think I'm getting over it.

Speaker 29 I should have come to my senses sooner and realized the guy wasn't worth it.

Speaker 51 And then the following year, for Mother's Day.

Speaker 13 Happy Mother's Day, Mom.

Speaker 9 How has Max been?

Speaker 21 Nancy, frustrated, replied, Call me and I'll gladly tell you about him.

Speaker 43 This is not talking. I need to hear your voice.

Speaker 20 Carrie never called.

Speaker 4 For Nancy and Max, the anguish of missing Carrie never stopped.

Speaker 11 And meanwhile, all Dave Krupa wanted was to escape her.

Speaker 9 In February 2015, Dave moved from Omaha to Council Bluffs, Iowa across the river.

Speaker 69 His kids lived there with Amy Flora, and he wanted to spend more time with them.

Speaker 88 And he hoped Carrie wouldn't find him there.

Speaker 69 He bought another gun just in case.

Speaker 60 And after about three years of relentless harassment, things finally seemed to be quieting down for Liz and Dave.

Speaker 61 There weren't as many messages from Carrie.

Speaker 16 She seemed to be fading away.

Speaker 27 And as that happened, Liz and Dave saw each other less and less too.

Speaker 65 There was just one rather scary thing.

Speaker 66 That gun Dave bought for protection, the one he'd kept hidden high in a closet, disappeared.

Speaker 51 And you're the only guy in that apartment.

Speaker 57 Right, I'm the only one living there. Now my mind's racing.
There's no forced entry. The doors are all shut and locked.
The windows are shut.

Speaker 64 But what did you think?

Speaker 57 I didn't know what the hell to think.

Speaker 18 Dave's stolen gun.

Speaker 15 Could Carrie be behind it?

Speaker 99 She's still active and sending text messages, sending pictures.

Speaker 69 Or maybe it wasn't Carrie at all.

Speaker 98 Soon, police will be investigating a whole new suspect.

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Speaker 109 Some stories never make national headlines, but stories from small towns and coastal communities deserve recognition too.

Speaker 109 I'm Kylie Lowe, host of Dark Down East, a true crime podcast that gives voice to victims through investigative journalism and powerful storytelling.

Speaker 109 Set in my home state of Maine and the greater New England area, it's my goal to dig through the archives to bring the stories of the people at the heart of these cases to light.

Speaker 109 Listen to Dark Down East, wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 108 Hey, everybody, Ted Danson here to tell you about my my podcast with my longtime friend and sometimes co-host, Woody Harrelson.

Speaker 108 It's called Where Everybody Knows Your Name, and we're back for another season.

Speaker 108 I'm so excited to be joined this season by friends like John Mulaney, David Spade, Sarah Silverman, Ed Helms, and many more. You don't want to miss it.

Speaker 108 Listen to Where Everybody Knows Your Name with me, Ted Danson, and Woody Harrelson, sometimes, wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 43 In Pottawatomie County, Iowa, where Carrie Farver lived before she became a mysterious and dangerous digital persona, her disappearance was more office chatter than active case.

Speaker 21 And that's when Detective Sergeant Jim Doty and Corporal Ryan Avis got hooked on it.

Speaker 99 We'd heard some stuff, you know, just

Speaker 99 water cooler talk, I guess, about the case.

Speaker 10 And it was something about this strange, crazy woman.

Speaker 99 It piqued her interest, and so we requested to take a look at it.

Speaker 42 That was April 2015, more than two years after Carrie's reign of terror began.

Speaker 54 The file was huge by then.

Speaker 50 The bizarre digital house of mirrors.

Speaker 11 And so Dodie and Avis decided to sort things out, beginning with a very simple question police had never really considered before, though her family certainly had.

Speaker 4 Was Carrie Farber really the vengeful woman she seemed to be?

Speaker 17 Or did she even exist?

Speaker 99 Thought the smart idea was not to have tunnel vision on any direction. So Ryan worked it as if Carrie's still alive.
And he was going to work it until he came to a dead end.

Speaker 99 I was going to work it like she was not alive.

Speaker 99 Because there's...

Speaker 99 There's things that lead us to maybe both conclusions. You know, she's still active and sending text messages, sending pictures.

Speaker 3 She certainly seemed alive.

Speaker 99 So maybe she's alive, but she's also missed so many significant events and hadn't physically been seen by anybody.

Speaker 102 And we started from scratch.

Speaker 7 Started reading. Reviewing all the old material.

Speaker 99 Reading all the reports, looking through those phone downloads, listening to any interviews that had been recorded, just diving in.

Speaker 71 Of course, they spoke to Dave Krupa.

Speaker 69 No doubt in his mind, Carrie was alive and crazy.

Speaker 99 He was transparent. He gave us access to his whole email account.

Speaker 106 11,000 emails that he had saved over the years?

Speaker 24 Could be more. Wow.

Speaker 3 But that wasn't all they had.

Speaker 16 Right there in the file was a wholesale dump of material from Liz Gallier's cell phone.

Speaker 20 So they were learning a lot about both Dave and Liz.

Speaker 6 They'd been immersed in all that for months, but hadn't interviewed Liz yet when in the office one day, pure coincidence.

Speaker 102 I was in the hallway talking with a county attorney, and another investigator was walking down the hall with Liz to his office.

Speaker 7 Wow.

Speaker 102 And to me, it was like I saw a famous person because I knew everything about her and she was there to file a harassment report.

Speaker 27 But this was odd.

Speaker 88 Her complaint wasn't against Carrie.

Speaker 14 It was someone else.

Speaker 106 Amy Flora?

Speaker 14 That's the mother of Dave's children.

Speaker 30 Wait, Amy?

Speaker 85 Not Carrie?

Speaker 63 First, Detective Avis did a kind of psychic double take.

Speaker 79 And then he asked if he could be the one to interview Liz.

Speaker 110 Who's your ex-boyfriend?

Speaker 25 Dave Cooper.

Speaker 25 Dave

Speaker 35 Cooper.

Speaker 24 R-O-U-P-A.

Speaker 37 That's your ex, and he has kids with Amy for him.

Speaker 21 Liz told Detective Avis that her on-again, off-again relationship with Dave was off-again.

Speaker 43 But ever since their most recent split, Dave's ex, Amy, had been stalking her on Facebook.

Speaker 34 And she was very worried because...

Speaker 101 Not even two days after he broke up, his apartment was broken into and his gun was stolen.

Speaker 101 So I told the police officer I was kind of worried that

Speaker 86 since she had the key to his apartment.

Speaker 43 And that, said Liz, is when she suddenly realized that she and Dave had been played for fools.

Speaker 43 For three years, she'd believed Carrie was the woman behind all the threatening messages, the harassing graffiti, the deadly fire that killed her pets.

Speaker 78 But suddenly it was like a light went on, said Liz.

Speaker 21 It wasn't Carrie at all.

Speaker 45 That scary, awful online villainous, the woman responsible for all the trouble, had to be Amy Flora, Dave's ex, the mother of his children.

Speaker 5 Diabolical.

Speaker 49 But think about it, said Liz.

Speaker 43 Amy was the one who so desperately wanted Dave.

Speaker 54 She had the motive.

Speaker 85 But Carrie?

Speaker 68 Not really.

Speaker 101 Like I said, they only dated for two weeks, and I don't understand why a person would still be stalking him almost three years later.

Speaker 24 Carrie and Dave dated for two weeks.

Speaker 83 And she

Speaker 101 supposedly is the one stalking for three years.

Speaker 101 I would find it more reasonable to believe that his kid's mom is the one date.

Speaker 68 Head spinning.

Speaker 43 Detective Avis made some notes.

Speaker 29 told Liz he'd do what he could to help her out.

Speaker 43 And no surprise, the very next evening, December 5th, Liz felt like she needed some time alone to think.

Speaker 13 She drove out to Big Lake Park, took a walk along the trail there, sat down on the bench, quiet, alone, in the gathering cold and dark.

Speaker 7 And that's when it happened.

Speaker 32 The deafening bark of a gun and the pain tearing through her thigh.

Speaker 36 I've been shot in the leg.

Speaker 83 Somebody in the park, what, armed and dangerous?

Speaker 82 Yes.

Speaker 15 A shooter on the loose?

Speaker 63 And the prime suspect?

Speaker 75 All I heard was open up, police. They had two officers with guns drawn.

Speaker 36 Pointing at you? Yes.

Speaker 35 Is the assailant still nearby?

Speaker 24 I don't think so. I took on burning.

Speaker 35 Do you know if it was male or female?

Speaker 24 Male or female.

Speaker 45 It was dark when the Council Buffs PD roared out to Big Lake Park, found the wounded and bleeding Liz Gallier, packed her off to the hospital.

Speaker 15 Well, the chopper trained down a searchlight and ground-based cops scoured the paths and bushes.

Speaker 83 So somebody in the park on foot and what, armed and dangerous?

Speaker 82 Yes.

Speaker 63 While other cops searched for the shooter, Detective Matthew Kuhlman checked on Liz at the hospital.

Speaker 113 You could tell she was in pain.

Speaker 83 Yeah, imagine.

Speaker 113 Obvious wound to her leg.

Speaker 27 But Liz was lucky.

Speaker 21 The bullet went clean through her leg, missed bones and arteries.

Speaker 4 It could have been much worse.

Speaker 5 She told the detective what happened.

Speaker 113 She says she came out here to clear her mind and she walked out to a bench and sat down.

Speaker 113 And then a female who she believed to be Amy Flora came up behind her, stuck a gun to her back, told her to get on the ground, and then shot her in the leg, and then

Speaker 113 ran off.

Speaker 16 A few minutes later, a city police task force surrounded Amy's apartment.

Speaker 75 And I kind of seen somebody leaning against my

Speaker 75 building,

Speaker 75 and I said, who's there? And all I heard was, open up, police. So I opened the door, and they had two officers with guns drawn.

Speaker 36 Pointing at you. Yes.
Yeah.

Speaker 76 What did they say to you?

Speaker 75 They had said that I was accused of shooting Liz.

Speaker 77 They searched her home and later sat her down in an interview room and hooked her up to to a polygraph machine.

Speaker 52 Asked her questions like this one, among others.

Speaker 16 Did you go to Big Lakes Park that day?

Speaker 75 Um, no.

Speaker 34 Amy also denied that she shot Liz again and again.

Speaker 36 But

Speaker 3 she failed the polygraph.

Speaker 21 Still, something didn't add up.

Speaker 29 When that local detective arrived at Amy's place right after the shooting, he felt the hood of her car.

Speaker 7 Ice cold, hadn't been driven for a while.

Speaker 4 And the neighbor said Amy was home all afternoon.

Speaker 46 So, was Amy so nervous she blew the polygraph?

Speaker 89 Or was something else going on?

Speaker 24 Detective Avis went to see Liz at the hospital, his recorder rolling.

Speaker 7 I feel like it's just written on the wall, what it is.

Speaker 106 It's Amy shot you with Dave's gun, isn't it?

Speaker 111 Pretty much. That's what I'm thinking.

Speaker 101 Dave still doesn't think so.

Speaker 80 Seemed like the friendly cop.

Speaker 36 Or the dumb one.

Speaker 102 I'll be whatever she wanted, as long as she kept telling us information.

Speaker 36 Wait, what?

Speaker 34 Avis was playing dumb, he said, to pump Liz for information because he and his partner had a strong suspicion about who really shot her.

Speaker 80 A truly shocking idea.

Speaker 8 Something beyond devious.

Speaker 102 She shot herself, is what I thought.

Speaker 67 Liz shot herself?

Speaker 9 That sounded crazy.

Speaker 89 Or maybe a certain kind of crazy.

Speaker 72 Remember, to help catch Carrie Farver, Liz had given the police her cell phone.

Speaker 43 And here's what detectives Dotie and Avis found on that phone.

Speaker 11 A photo of Carrie Farver's SUV.

Speaker 4 Which didn't make any sense at all, because

Speaker 99 we looked at the date that was taken. It was taken on Christmas Eve of 2012.

Speaker 89 Wasn't that when her car was actually missing?

Speaker 99 Yeah, it hadn't been recovered until January of 2013.

Speaker 99 So we thought, that's weird that the police couldn't find it, Dave didn't know where it was, but somehow Liz was able to take a picture of it.

Speaker 3 But that wasn't all.

Speaker 63 Remember that threatening photo Carrie emailed to Dave of a woman bound and duct taped?

Speaker 61 That photo was linked back to Liz.

Speaker 69 Which made them wonder, was it possible those wild and scary electronic messages all sent in Carrie's name were really sent by Liz?

Speaker 69 Tricky even for a computer whiz to nail that bit of jello to the wall.

Speaker 99 It's beyond our expertise, and that's what I was going to say.

Speaker 88 How well do you know computers and social media and all of that nonsense?

Speaker 102 We know how to pick up a phone and call Tony Kava and tell him that he's got a lot of information to look at.

Speaker 63 Tony Kava?

Speaker 5 Who's he?

Speaker 33 Your cave.

Speaker 16 By day, I do IT work, and I've done that

Speaker 114 for about 15 years. And then by night, I fight crime.

Speaker 3 You sound like a superhero.

Speaker 34 Anthony Kava's day job was IT supervisor for Pottawatomie County.

Speaker 33 But at night, for a dollar a year, he's a reserve sheriff's deputy.

Speaker 41 I mean, how much stuff did you have to go through?

Speaker 114 It was

Speaker 114 terabytes worth of information, maybe about three dozen email accounts, a dozen Facebook accounts, and a number of different apps.

Speaker 79 And in his tiny office, Cava sat hour after hour, late into the night, deciphering enormous amounts of digital data.

Speaker 114 It might take her five minutes to create a fake email account. It might take me 15 hours to prove that it's actually her.

Speaker 61 Among those many accounts was a YouTube account with this video.

Speaker 70 The title of the video is Husband's Cheating Place. And that video showed the apartment of Dave Krupa.

Speaker 42 But the IP address where that video was uploaded was where Liz lived.

Speaker 77 So again, it was another arrow pointing at Liz.

Speaker 45 Painstakingly, arrow by arrow, Anthony Kava compiled the evidence.

Speaker 17 His conclusion?

Speaker 61 Every one of those threatening emails and texts and Facebook posts and YouTube videos linked right back to Liz Gallier.

Speaker 16 Meanwhile, Detectives Doty and Avis busied themselves with good old-fashioned earthbound evidence.

Speaker 53 Remember that one unidentified fingerprint found in a mint container in Carrie's otherwise spotless SUV?

Speaker 99 And we asked our crime scene tech, hey, can you compare that fingerprint to the known prints of Liz? See what we come up with.

Speaker 58 It was a match.

Speaker 99 This lady who should have had very little interaction with Carrie

Speaker 99 had no reason to ever be in her vehicle.

Speaker 102 Only met her in passing one time, but now her fingerprint is in her car.

Speaker 67 Liz and Carrie's SUV.

Speaker 50 Liz impersonating Carrie online.

Speaker 55 There was no logical explanation for it unless.

Speaker 99 We think Liz may have been involved with making Carrie disappear.

Speaker 34 A case about to dive right through the looking glass.

Speaker 16 And on the other side,

Speaker 29 hard to believe.

Speaker 99 Why else would you disguise yourself as Carrie if you weren't responsible for it?

Speaker 85 What had really happened to Carrie?

Speaker 34 Police hatch a bold new plan to finally get to the bottom of it.

Speaker 115 Well, Investigator Dodia, working for the sheriff's office.

Speaker 71 By the time these two county detectives started looking into the strange case of Carrie Farver and all those jealousy-fueled texts and emails and threats and arson, Carrie's son, Max, was getting ready for high school graduation.

Speaker 14 He hadn't seen his mom in three years.

Speaker 44 But always the optimist, he decided to try one more time to reach her on Facebook.

Speaker 87 I was.

Speaker 87 At that point, it was just a last-ditch effort, just hoping something would happen.

Speaker 7 If this is really you, please come back.

Speaker 69 I want you to be at my graduation.

Speaker 100 When she didn't respond, how did that feel?

Speaker 87 I wasn't really surprised because, like I said, I knew it wasn't her.

Speaker 21 Max and Nancy had suspected for months that that all those digital rants were not actually from Carrie.

Speaker 69 And they didn't know it yet, but detectives Jim Doty and Ryan Avis agreed with them.

Speaker 90 The detectives already had proof Liz was impersonating Carrie online.

Speaker 4 But they also suspected something much darker.

Speaker 63 Remember, another part of their investigation involved this basic question.

Speaker 31 Was Carrie Farber alive or dead?

Speaker 99 Her father died.

Speaker 99 And she didn't go to the funeral. He missed her son's birthday and all these things.
I mean, it didn't take Ryan

Speaker 99 very long at all to come to a dead end where

Speaker 99 he couldn't find anything to show that she was alive.

Speaker 64 Suddenly, Carrie Farver looked not like a villain, but like the real victim.

Speaker 43 And the woman who claimed she was the victim, Liz Gallier, looked like the prime suspect in Carrie's disappearance.

Speaker 99 Because why else would you disguise yourself as Carrie if you weren't responsible for it? Why would you be in Carrie's vehicle if you weren't responsible for it?

Speaker 42 All of that is so counterintuitive and so bizarre that, you know, you wouldn't be expected to believe such a thing.

Speaker 46 No.

Speaker 18 It was stunning, really.

Speaker 72 Liz apparently impersonating Carrie for years, sending thousands of texts and emails in her name.

Speaker 54 But now they had a bigger question and a much bigger problem.

Speaker 99 I guess part of the worry was if even if we could prove that it's Liz sending all this stuff out as Carrie, well that doesn't prove murder.

Speaker 15 Murder?

Speaker 33 Yes.

Speaker 29 Sergeant Doty and Corporal Avis believed that Liz killed Carrie out of jealousy.

Speaker 51 Impersonated Carrie in order to win Dave back, then tried to frame his ex-partner Amy for everything.

Speaker 52 Even going so far as to set her own house on fire, kill the family pets, and shoot herself in the leg.

Speaker 66 Pretty wild stuff.

Speaker 64 But could they prove it?

Speaker 99 We did need something more, so we still weren't quite sure how to get to that point.

Speaker 61 And then Liz herself, by accusing Amy of shooting her, gave them their big idea.

Speaker 24 And that's when we introduced Jim to Liz.

Speaker 115 Well, Investigator Dotia, working for the sheriff's office.

Speaker 72 A little over a week after the shooting in the park, Liz arrived at the sheriff's station wearing her work uniform.

Speaker 115 I told you I was looking into a missing person's case briefly on the phone.

Speaker 27 He told her there was a break in the case.

Speaker 115 There have been some remains that have been located.

Speaker 2 Okay, okay.

Speaker 59 It was a ruse, of course.

Speaker 115 We're waiting on the lab results to make a positive ID, but the initial indication is that these remains are Carrie. Okay.
Okay.

Speaker 64 Meanwhile, said Detective Doty, he was hoping Liz could help establish a timeline.

Speaker 4 Like, when was the last time Liz saw Carrie?

Speaker 11 Well, that was easy, said Liz.

Speaker 54 One brief encounter when Liz went unannounced to Dave's apartment back in 2012.

Speaker 112 I didn't know he was dating anybody else at the time.

Speaker 115 So

Speaker 112 she came out and I was going in.

Speaker 115 And she made a smart comment to me. What did she say to you?

Speaker 112 Called me a bitch.

Speaker 115 Okay.

Speaker 112 And it wasn't a big deal. I didn't really care at the time.
I just wanted to get my stuff, and then I left and went home.

Speaker 115 Okay. That's the only time you've ever seen her in person?

Speaker 35 Okay.

Speaker 44 She told Detective Doty that it was Dave who blamed Carrie for all those harassing messages over the years, but just as she had told Detective Ava, she now thought perhaps Amy was really the one behind it all.

Speaker 112 She was with him for 12 years,

Speaker 112 and she still goes in and out of his life all the time. Yeah.

Speaker 115 So you think she could have been a person that did some of that stuff to him?

Speaker 112 I'm just saying as another person who would be possessive of Dave, it would be her.

Speaker 112 So, I mean, I wouldn't put it past her.

Speaker 91 Detective Dodie pretended to agree.

Speaker 115 I'm thinking if she was bold enough to go and then shoot you, okay, she could easily be bold enough to have done something to Carrie.

Speaker 3 Messages, of course, he said,

Speaker 37 he'd need to prove it.

Speaker 115 We had messages from her saying, hey, I did this or I did that, you know,

Speaker 115 I could easily start building that case. Right.

Speaker 99 We want to build a case against Amy. We want to get Amy thrown in prison, which we were hoping was music to her ears.

Speaker 6 And apparently, it was.

Speaker 11 Liz agreed to help with the investigation, and she limped away.

Speaker 106 And she became a little deputy for you.

Speaker 64 Yeah.

Speaker 14 No telling what Liz might come up with next.

Speaker 99 We had to find evidence that would match what she's telling us.

Speaker 8 The chilling clue that might finally unlock this mystery.

Speaker 99 There's a dark red stain right on that seat.

Speaker 50 That's huge.

Speaker 99 It was.

Speaker 107 Hey, weirdos, I'm Elena, and I'm Ash, and we are the host of Morbid Podcast.

Speaker 116 Each week, we dive into the dark and fascinating world of true crime, spooky history, and the unexplained.

Speaker 107 From infamous killers and unsolved mysteries to haunted places and strange legends, we cover it all with research, empathy, humor, and a few creative expletives.

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Speaker 16 When Carrie Farber never returned to Little Macedonia, Iowa, back in 2012, cops and neighbors alike seemed all too willing to believe she simply lost her mind, left her son with her mom, and split.

Speaker 102 In the small community where she's from, they all kind of believe that too, and Nancy never could stand up and argue.

Speaker 45 Nancy felt lonely indeed until one day, Detective Dodie knocked on her door.

Speaker 86 I was a little bit standoffish because

Speaker 36 been down that road before.

Speaker 68 Yeah.

Speaker 86 Finally, he said to me, he said, well, I want you to know

Speaker 86 that I don't think she left on her own.

Speaker 86 And I tell you,

Speaker 86 my attitude just changed.

Speaker 65 The very thing she'd suspected.

Speaker 67 They saw what you had seen all along.

Speaker 36 Right. Yeah.

Speaker 86 So then

Speaker 86 the investigation really got

Speaker 86 going.

Speaker 72 An investigation as unusual and convoluted as the apparent crime, in which an eager Liz Gallier would try to help prove that her rival, Amy, killed Carrie.

Speaker 21 Of course, all the while the detectives knew Amy was innocent, but they let Liz think they believed otherwise.

Speaker 115 She made anything. real threatening statements or inferred that she ever did anything to Carrie because that's like gold to me if we had something like that.

Speaker 89 And what do you know?

Speaker 79 Within days, Liz began forwarding them emails from Amy, she said.

Speaker 40 Although the misspellings looked awfully familiar.

Speaker 34 I shot you, Liz, to make sure Dave stayed away from you.

Speaker 79 I made a couple of those fake emails and numbers you and Dave thought were Carrie to get rid of you, Liz.

Speaker 50 Didn't work too well.

Speaker 99 When they first started coming in, they were pretty vague.

Speaker 27 So, Detective Doty spoke to Liz again.

Speaker 49 They needed more, he told her.

Speaker 47 So, you guys want me to try and email her back?

Speaker 84 And that's, I'm leaving that in your court, Liz. I mean, if that's something you would feel

Speaker 84 okay doing,

Speaker 84 that'd be really helpful for us.

Speaker 43 Liz said she'd try.

Speaker 47 Carrie's family some closure would be nice, probably.

Speaker 84 Yeah, that true. Get

Speaker 84 her family some closure.

Speaker 2 So, Liz said she sent this email to Amy.

Speaker 72 So if you really shot me, then what kind of gun was it?

Speaker 61 So did you ever get to meet up with Dave's ex, Carrie?

Speaker 52 According to Liz, Amy responded, the gun was Dave's that I used.

Speaker 14 Don't worry, you didn't get it as bad as Crazy Carrie.

Speaker 64 Then she wrote this.

Speaker 69 So when I met Crazy Carrie, she would not stop talking about Dave and him being her husband.

Speaker 11 She tried to attack me, but I attacked her with a knife.

Speaker 52 I stabbed her three to four times in the chest and stomach area.

Speaker 83 I then took her out and burned her.

Speaker 20 I stuffed her body in a garbage bag with crap.

Speaker 17 Sort of to tell a killer would know.

Speaker 12 To see that it was working, though, must have been enormously exciting.

Speaker 81 I felt good.

Speaker 52 A couple of days later, Dave Krupa called Detective Avis to say he'd just had a disturbing conversation with Liz.

Speaker 84 She told me that the sheriffs had found remains, like somebody's dead,

Speaker 84 and that and that they thought it was this Terry,

Speaker 84 and that supposedly they had all this evidence against Amy, you know, that she's complicit or knows something or whatever. I don't know.

Speaker 15 Dave was understandably shaken up.

Speaker 44 Avis couldn't tell him much, but he did drop a big hint.

Speaker 84 I'd be damn near moved in with Amy if I were you.

Speaker 35 And

Speaker 100 since Liz did come and tell you this

Speaker 84 I would avoid her like the plague right now.

Speaker 16 Dave took his advice, moved in with Amy so they could protect each other and their kids.

Speaker 68 But that outraged Liz.

Speaker 34 She called the police to say so.

Speaker 47 Looks like the only person that benefited was her.

Speaker 47 So she gets to shoot somebody and then she gets to kill another person and then she gets to move in with Dave and she gets to be free and you guys aren't arresting her.

Speaker 77 Detective Dodie told her he still needed more evidence.

Speaker 53 So Liz gave them access to her email account.

Speaker 15 And over the next month, emails came pouring in.

Speaker 62 Allegedly from Amy, of course.

Speaker 20 I got hold of Carrie and we drive in her car.

Speaker 72 I reached over and stabbed her in the stomach.

Speaker 88 When I killed Carrie, you know she begged me to call Dave at work.

Speaker 63 And then she begged me to talk to her family before she died.

Speaker 13 I remember when I killed Carrie that she had a yin-yang sign on left thigh.

Speaker 30 All that read like a detailed confession, but

Speaker 99 we had to find evidence that would match what she's telling us to confirm that what she's telling us is true.

Speaker 14 They needed to look at Carrie's car again, but the car had long since been sold to somebody else.

Speaker 13 But they found it, much used, in a whole other county.

Speaker 99 Took out the passenger seat, pulled off the fabric of that, and there was a dark red stain right on that seat. Large stain.

Speaker 3 They tested it.

Speaker 13 Human blood.

Speaker 60 And DNA confirmed it was Carrie's blood.

Speaker 50 That's huge.

Speaker 99 It was.

Speaker 81 We high-piped.

Speaker 102 But we didn't really know what to do next, for sure.

Speaker 42 But they were sure they had to move fast because it appeared Liz was scouting a new target.

Speaker 99 We would see her circle Amy's apartment multiple times a day.

Speaker 88 Because Dotie and Avis believed Carrie was murdered in Omaha, they asked the city police for help, and the Omaha PD picked up Liz on an unrelated misdemeanor warrant.

Speaker 18 But in the interview, their questions were about Carrie.

Speaker 3 Liz stuck to her story that she was the victim in this tragic tale.

Speaker 28 What do you think happened to Carrie Barber?

Speaker 28 I don't know.

Speaker 112 I don't even know.

Speaker 109 I don't know if what Amy's saying is true.

Speaker 12 I don't know.

Speaker 112 I'm more scared that something's going to happen to me, and that my kids aren't going to have anybody.

Speaker 9 The Omaha detective added some pressure.

Speaker 74 Why, he asked, was her fingerprint in Carrie's car?

Speaker 112 I don't know, but I've never been in her car.

Speaker 109 I don't even know what car she drives.

Speaker 9 She denied everything.

Speaker 99 Her finger's pointing right at you.

Speaker 112 I'm done talking, and I'm going to have my attorney because I didn't do anything.

Speaker 69 By the end of the night, she bonded out, and the county attorney wanted more time to review the evidence.

Speaker 96 What was it like you're waiting for that? Was it frustrating?

Speaker 99 It was.

Speaker 15 Months went by.

Speaker 79 Max, who hadn't heard about any of that recent investigation, graduated from high school without his mom.

Speaker 41 That was surreal. It kind of

Speaker 93 staking of heart.

Speaker 24 But

Speaker 82 because.

Speaker 100 Well, God knows if there was any occasion she was going to attend, it certainly would have been your graduation.

Speaker 82 Yeah.

Speaker 15 Summer came and went.

Speaker 63 Another winter set in.

Speaker 42 And then December 22, 2016.

Speaker 7 Four years after Carrie Farver vanished, after reviewing all the evidence, the county attorney finally felt there was enough.

Speaker 67 Liz Gallier was arrested for murder.

Speaker 99 The best part of it was being able to go to Nancy and tell her,

Speaker 99 we've arrested somebody for the murder of your daughter.

Speaker 64 That was a big day for her.

Speaker 99 That was what made working this whole case worth it.

Speaker 96 I feel like driving out there to see them.

Speaker 102 Couldn't drive fast enough.

Speaker 40 It was big news for Dave, too.

Speaker 57 That was the first time I could go outside and take a breath of fresh air and say, I don't have to look over my shoulder today.

Speaker 61 Liz sat in jail.

Speaker 78 Well, the prosecutors prepared for a trial they knew would not be easy.

Speaker 30 Well, yeah, no-body cases are tough, right?

Speaker 119 Yeah, and circumstantial. It was very circumstantial.

Speaker 21 But then, as the trial date was bearing down, a teeny, tiny memory card yielded an amazing discovery.

Speaker 42 Which was basically just BS luck you ever got that, right?

Speaker 119 Last minute? I don't think it's luck. I think it was divine intervention.

Speaker 65 A signature tattoo.

Speaker 5 The ultimate computer clue.

Speaker 10 That turns up on a picture of a dead body.

Speaker 12 Yeah.

Speaker 12 Holy cow.

Speaker 69 Would Carrie Farver get justice at last?

Speaker 87 It was nerve-wracking.

Speaker 119 We've had our fair share of homicides and bizarre cases, but this certainly, in all my experience, tops the charts for most bizarre.

Speaker 2 Not just bizarre, challenging.

Speaker 22 Even for seasoned prosecutors Brenda Beadle and James Masteller.

Speaker 99 Your typical murder case, you know exactly when the murder happened, you know exactly where it happened. When you don't have a body, you don't really have a good date, time, or location.

Speaker 119 This is a bizarre and twisted case of a fatal traction.

Speaker 85 Nevertheless, on May 10th, 2017, they put Liz Gallier on trial for the murder of Carrie Farber.

Speaker 119 It's about an obsessive woman that would stop at nothing to get what she wanted.

Speaker 46 Liz waived her right to a jury trial.

Speaker 34 A judge would hear the evidence.

Speaker 51 The prosecutors laid it out methodically.

Speaker 45 Carrie's blood in the car, Liz's fingerprint on the mint container in the car, the emails that red like confessions, the vast trove of digital forensics.

Speaker 3 They even tracked down a purchase on Carrie's bank card made after she vanished, a Walmart receipt.

Speaker 99 One of the items was a shower curtain.

Speaker 99 And that shower curtain looked familiar to us because in one of her, that phone dump that we did in 2013 of Liz's phone, there's a picture of that shower curtain.

Speaker 31 And they found the shower curtain itself at Liz's apartment.

Speaker 27 There was also a photo of Carrie's driver's license with a large knife next to it that was emailed to Dave.

Speaker 29 He thought it was a threat from Carrie.

Speaker 43 In fact, it was sent from an email account created by Liz.

Speaker 119 All these pieces together made a big difference.

Speaker 29 All of it put together, said the prosecutors, told the story of how Liz Gallier murdered Carrie Farber.

Speaker 43 They told the judge it happened the morning of November 13th, 2012, after Dave Krupa left for work.

Speaker 91 Carrie was on her laptop.

Speaker 99 We know by examination of Carrie Farber's known Facebook that she logged into her Facebook at 6.39 a.m.

Speaker 77 that morning.

Speaker 63 About two minutes later, she logged off.

Speaker 28 She was supposed to leave for work, but never made it.

Speaker 99 She was intercepted.

Speaker 119 Something happened.

Speaker 99 That something was the defendant.

Speaker 16 Hard to know exactly what Liz did to Carrie, but.

Speaker 63 And it didn't take her too long.

Speaker 99 Because at 9.54 a.m.,

Speaker 99 Carrie Farber's cell phone is being used to access Facebook.

Speaker 74 And at that moment, it appeared, Carrie unfriended Dave.

Speaker 99 The fact that they had the temerity to actually be Facebook friends, this is one of the very first acts the defendant takes to actually eliminate that Facebook friendship.

Speaker 39 And from then on, in cyberspace, Liz became Carrie.

Speaker 99 All for the purpose, for the reason of

Speaker 99 convincing people, her friends, her family, relatives, everyone, that she was still alive.

Speaker 29 Nancy went to court every day for the trial, heard the details for the very first time.

Speaker 86 When I heard all of those, what this person was doing in her name,

Speaker 86 it just made me so angry.

Speaker 86 Because Carrie's, she didn't deserve that at all.

Speaker 63 So, strong case?

Speaker 78 The prosecutors hoped so, though, no-body cases are tough to prove.

Speaker 52 But, was it luck, divine intervention?

Speaker 66 Before the trial began, Detective Avis and tech guru Tony Kava went back to Dave Krupa again and asked if he had anything that might help them.

Speaker 9 And that's when it hit him.

Speaker 66 He'd put a tablet into storage, had forgotten all about it.

Speaker 32 So he fished it out and Kava examined it.

Speaker 6 Tony removed the external SD card, the memory,

Speaker 81 and had been deleted and reformatted.

Speaker 7 Blank.

Speaker 21 Or so it seemed until Kava took a closer look.

Speaker 46 Pay dirt.

Speaker 110 There were, I want to say, thousands of pictures that he was able to locate.

Speaker 45 Thousands of photos that Liz thought she had deleted.

Speaker 102 One of the pictures we found, it was a Chinese symbol that we were able to determine meant mother.

Speaker 102 And

Speaker 102 there were dark lines in the picture.

Speaker 73 Dark lines?

Speaker 36 They looked more closely.

Speaker 6 Those lines were veins on what looked like someone's foot.

Speaker 42 Someone's deceased foot.

Speaker 7 Avis called Carrie's mom, Nancy.

Speaker 102 Nancy was able to email a few pictures, and sure enough, Carrie has that same tattoo on her left foot.

Speaker 74 Wow. Identical.

Speaker 14 And remember the yin-yang tattoo mentioned in one of those possibly confessional emails?

Speaker 10 Lo and behold, it turns up on a picture.

Speaker 76 Yeah.

Speaker 12 Of a dead body. Yeah.

Speaker 12 Holy cow.

Speaker 27 That was Carrie's too.

Speaker 37 The tattoo parlor kept a record.

Speaker 99 My first thought when I saw those photographs was that this defendant had taken a trophy or trophies of the person she'd killed.

Speaker 38 The motive, a very old one, jealousy.

Speaker 119 It was really all about Dave Krupa. She did it because she wanted this man.

Speaker 52 Jealousy makes people do strange things, but that's just why so much?

Speaker 2 What?

Speaker 119 Why? I think it snowballed. I think once she did it,

Speaker 119 she couldn't stop. She had to make Carrie look like she was still alive to keep the heat off of her.
And it just went on and on and on for years.

Speaker 5 Dave Krupa heard it all and finally understood.

Speaker 57 I mean, it makes sense now at the end, you know, but the Tarantino movie always makes sense at the end. You know, it doesn't make any sense getting there.

Speaker 104 What can you tell for?

Speaker 21 And Liz's defense attorney, James Martin Davis, agreed.

Speaker 7 It was like a movie.

Speaker 91 A fictional one.

Speaker 104 I know they've got all this bizarre behavior, and they've got all this circumstantial evidence, but it doesn't show my client on that day in this jurisdiction took a knife and stabbed Carrie Farver to death.

Speaker 81 Without that?

Speaker 8 No murder case.

Speaker 104 You may have camcorders and you may have smart cards and you you may have phones, but you don't have a body and you don't have a cause of death from a medical examiner.

Speaker 104 What we have is their belief, their speculation, their notion that this is what happens. But

Speaker 104 that can't convict.

Speaker 32 And then the judge retired to think about it and returned to an anxious courtroom.

Speaker 61 Max, inside the courtroom, waited for the words.

Speaker 87 It was nerve-wracking.

Speaker 15 And then finally, an answer.

Speaker 43 The The court finds and adjudges the defendant guilty.

Speaker 63 Guilty of first-degree murder for killing Carrie Farber and second-degree arson for setting fire to her own house and killing her pets.

Speaker 64 She was sentenced to life in prison.

Speaker 62 Just a few rows behind Liz, Carrie's mother, Nancy, finally heard the longed-for words from the judge.

Speaker 86 Saying that Carrie did not vanish off the face of the earth and she just didn't vanish into thin air.

Speaker 86 It was just a total relief to me and I just started crying.

Speaker 69 You can't grieve really until you know and now they did.

Speaker 86 It'll never go away but at least we can deal with it now.

Speaker 86 Have to deal with it.

Speaker 25 So important, said Nancy.

Speaker 68 to finally set the record straight about a loving mother and a good woman who never abandoned anyone.

Speaker 86 And I think it would have been important to Carrie too, because she would have wanted people to say, this was not me.

Speaker 53 Max is in college now, studying computer science.

Speaker 26 Yeah,

Speaker 87 she was the one that really got me to understand computers. I'll never type as well as she could.

Speaker 51 But

Speaker 87 she's definitely a big influence there.

Speaker 28 And inspired your love of them.

Speaker 87 She definitely did.

Speaker 35 But

Speaker 26 I have her to thank

Speaker 26 for what I'm going down now.

Speaker 3 I think she'd be pretty proud of you.

Speaker 3 I hope so.

Speaker 108 Hey, everybody, Ted Danson here to tell you about my podcast with my longtime friend and sometimes co-host Woody Harrison.

Speaker 108 It's called Where Everybody Knows Your Name and We're Back for Another Season.

Speaker 108 I'm so excited to be joined this season by friends like John Mulaney, David Spade, Sarah Silverman, Ed Helms, and many more. You don't want to miss it.

Speaker 108 Listen to Where Everybody Knows Your Name with me, Ted Danson, and Woody Harrison sometimes, wherever you get your podcasts.