The Secret
Press play and read along
Transcript
Speaker 1 If you're a smoker or dipper ready to make a change, you really only need one good reason. But with Zen nicotine pouches, you'll discover many good reasons.
Speaker 1 Zinn is America's number one nicotine pouch brand.
Speaker 3 Plus, Zen offers a robust rewards program.
Speaker 1 There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction, but there's only one Zen. Check out Zen.com/slash find to find Zen at a store near you.
Speaker 1 Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.
Speaker 4 At Capella University, learning the right skills could make a difference. That's why our business programs teach you relevant skills you can take from the course room to the workplace.
Speaker 4 A different future is closer than you think. With Capella University, learn more at capella.edu.
Speaker 5 Dragging me through that night
Speaker 5 haunts me.
Speaker 5 I didn't know that people were capable of that.
Speaker 5 It destroyed the rest of my life.
Speaker 6 Intelligent, educated, accomplished.
Speaker 5 I am a professor. I've tried to seek a meaningful life.
Speaker 6 She had a prestigious career, a loving husband, a young daughter. But she also had a secret.
Speaker 5 I've lived with this nightmare for 18 years.
Speaker 6 And it's centered on murder.
Speaker 8 They'd followed him, they'd kidnapped him, and then they dumped his body. It was clearly a plan.
Speaker 6 What did she know?
Speaker 9 I was
Speaker 9 completely in shock.
Speaker 5 They were dangerous and they were violent.
Speaker 6 What did she do?
Speaker 10 I didn't realize she was involved as deep as she was.
Speaker 6 Scholar, professor, mother.
Speaker 5 What is going to happen to my daughter? I am innocent.
Speaker 8 She certainly knew.
Speaker 4 Manipulative, in your eyes?
Speaker 8 Uh, yes.
Speaker 6 Everything is at stake.
Speaker 5 I could face life in prison. I'm willing to do anything that needs to be done.
Speaker 6 I'm Lester Holt and this is Dateline.
Speaker 5 Now I have the strength.
Speaker 6 Tonight Andrea Canning with The Secret.
Speaker 4 She was the embodiment of the American dream, an immigrant who'd escaped a childhood of poverty and abuse, attended elite schools, and rose to the top of her field.
Speaker 4 Against all odds, Norma Patricia Sparza became a well-respected psychology professor and a champion for children's health care around the world. A success story, a life 40 years in the making.
Speaker 4 So how on earth did it come to this?
Speaker 12 Whatever the charges are that they're asking me to plead guilty for, it's essentially something that I cannot accept because it would essentially be a lie.
Speaker 4 The professor's case would draw international attention
Speaker 13 A young mother and a professor who is now in custody for home.
Speaker 1 Behind bars in connection with the murder of her alleged rapists.
Speaker 4 The 39-year-old woman says she is the victim. And it started a heated debate.
Speaker 17 This is not America.
Speaker 17 This is not justice.
Speaker 18 This is abuse of power.
Speaker 4 Did this well-educated mother orchestrate a horrific murder, then sabotage the investigation?
Speaker 8 You don't get a pass to become a vigilante and kidnap people and kill them.
Speaker 4 Or was she the victim at the center of it all?
Speaker 4 Do you ask yourself, how did I get here?
Speaker 5
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.
I rewind so many events in my life. I rewind so many things in my mind.
Speaker 4 To try and make sense of this mystery, you do have to rewind. All the way back to 1974, the year Patricia was born in a small farming town in southern Mexico.
Speaker 5 It was just a very rural, rustic place. It's a town with unpaved streets, no sewage, no running water.
Speaker 4 The family moved to Southern California for a better life.
Speaker 4 But Patricia's life here wasn't easy. She says her dad physically abused her mother.
Speaker 5 My father had lots of difficulties. He was an alcoholic, and he was...
Speaker 5 quite violent with her.
Speaker 4 And Patricia says she too was victimized by her dad, dad, claiming he had sexually abused her beginning when she was just five years old.
Speaker 5 As a five-year-old,
Speaker 5 I
Speaker 5 couldn't go to anybody for help.
Speaker 5 He...
Speaker 5
Who could I go to? I couldn't go to him. He was the one abusing me.
I couldn't go to my mother.
Speaker 5 when she couldn't stop him from beating her. So I really had nowhere to turn.
Speaker 4 Apparently, Patricia didn't tell anyone at the time. Both her mother and sister learned about the abuse later.
Speaker 4 Patricia's brother said their father eventually admitted to him that the abuse had happened. But the brother also said his father would not respond to our questions about it.
Speaker 5 The way that I dealt with all that chaos was
Speaker 5 to throw myself into my books, into education.
Speaker 4 So the bad things that were happening in your life were really driving you to essentially be a better person.
Speaker 5 Absolutely. To better yourself.
Speaker 5 Yeah.
Speaker 4 And all her studying paid off. She excelled, earning a scholarship to attend high school at Phillips Exeter Academy, a prestigious boarding school in New Hampshire.
Speaker 4 It just must have been a culture shock to go from the life that you had to this very privileged surrounding.
Speaker 5 Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.
Speaker 4 Did you feel like you were living the American dream?
Speaker 5 Oh, absolutely. I've always been so grateful to the U.S.
Speaker 4 She probably could have had her pick of any Ivy League school, but chose to attend Pomona, a top-notch college near her family's California home.
Speaker 4 But on one weekend in her sophomore year, her dreams of a happy college life were dashed. It was March 1995 when she made a decision that would haunt her for the rest of her life.
Speaker 5
I was a very serious student. I wasn't a drinker.
I wasn't a partier.
Speaker 4 Although she didn't go out often, one Saturday night, Patricia decided to go to the El Cortez nightclub. There, someone caught her eye.
Speaker 5 I met this person
Speaker 5 and we exchanged numbers.
Speaker 4 What was it about him that attracted you?
Speaker 5 There was really nothing attractive or unattractive. It was just somebody...
Speaker 5 somebody who seemed to be nice. I didn't think that I would be seeing this person again.
Speaker 4 But he called the very next morning and invited Patricia to breakfast along with her sister and friend. After they ate, he offered Patricia a ride back to campus.
Speaker 5 When we get to Pomona, he says, you know, before I go, would you mind if I get a glass of water? So we go to
Speaker 5 my dorm.
Speaker 5 My dorm room.
Speaker 4 And it was then, she says, the casual date turned terrifying.
Speaker 5 When we're inside, he tells me that
Speaker 5 he wants to have sex. And I
Speaker 5 tell him, no, I'm not interested.
Speaker 5 He starts to get
Speaker 5 aggressive and starts to to try to kiss me and I push him away. We're struggling
Speaker 5 and then ultimately he takes off my pants and
Speaker 5 he forces himself on me. When he's finished, I
Speaker 5 just turn away from him and I'm half naked and I curled up into a ball and I just start sobbing.
Speaker 5 When he gets to the door, he tells me, you have a lot of problems and he walks away.
Speaker 4 Patricia says she was raped and like many victims, she felt somehow it was her fault.
Speaker 5 Oh, God, I felt so dirty and so ashamed and I was just blaming myself. I thought, my goodness, why?
Speaker 5 Why did you, why did you do this? Why did you bring him here? Why did you trust him?
Speaker 4 Patricia didn't call the police, but the next day she went to her college health center where she says she saw a nurse, but says the nurse didn't take any action to report her rape allegation.
Speaker 5 I told her that I had been raped and uh
Speaker 5 and I
Speaker 5 I remember her reaction because it made me feel
Speaker 5
just as ashamed. She didn't want to deal with it.
She she walked away.
Speaker 4 Patricia herself had walked away from terrible experiences before, but moving on from this proved nearly impossible, especially when just weeks later, police found a body.
Speaker 6 A body? When do we come back? A strange and sinister puzzle.
Speaker 11 I've been to a lot of scenes in my career, but this one was a little more gruesome.
Speaker 6 A mystery victim, a crime of passion, and on a phone bill, a clue.
Speaker 10 There was a handwritten note that said, Patty.
Speaker 4 Three weeks after Patricia had her fateful encounter at El Cortez nightclub, two men went to the same club and had a life-changing encounter of their own.
Speaker 10 I believe they were just heading home and approximately a mile and a half from the club. They were rear-ended by a white van.
Speaker 4 Dean Fulcher was a detective back then with the Santa Ana police. Was this just a minor traffic accident?
Speaker 10 It was just a fender bender.
Speaker 4 Gonzalo Ramirez's pickup truck had been rear-ended by a white van. Gonzalo's friend in the passenger seat said not to stop.
Speaker 10 Gonzalo said, no, we got to pull over and exchange information.
Speaker 4
As the friend later told police, when Gonzalo got out of his truck, several men got out of the van. The men attacked Gonzalo.
The friend ran to get help.
Speaker 10 He just turned and ran northbound on the street at that time.
Speaker 4
Gonzalo's friend came back to the accident scene with police, but the white van was gone. The police arrive.
Is Gonzalo
Speaker 10 there? He's nowhere to be found.
Speaker 4 He's just vanished.
Speaker 7 Correct.
Speaker 4 Any signs of a struggle?
Speaker 7 There were.
Speaker 10 I believe a shoe that we believe belonged to Mr. Ramirez, a watch, and then there was also a small amount of blood.
Speaker 4
Gonzalo was now missing, possibly kidnapped. Police had no idea where he might be or who would have kidnapped him.
Now frantic, the friend called Gonzalo's family at three that morning.
Speaker 4 After hearing the news his brother was missing, Carlos Ramirez started making phone calls.
Speaker 20 I called his friends. Hey, have you seen my brother?
Speaker 11 No.
Speaker 4 Carlos drove around that night, searching, but never found Gonzalo.
Speaker 4 At 8:30 the next morning, Easter Sunday, 1995, investigator Larry Montgomery got a call at home. He immediately knew something bad had happened.
Speaker 11 And it was my sergeant, and he told me that there was a body found, and I was to respond.
Speaker 4 Montgomery, at the time, was an experienced detective with the Irvine, California Police Department. He was used to dealing with murders, but this one stood out.
Speaker 11 I've been to a lot of scenes in my career, but this one was a little more gruesome just because of the sheer amount of injury to the body. He was definitely hacked to death.
Speaker 4 The man's body had been found near a stretch of the 405 freeway. He had clearly suffered a brutal death.
Speaker 4 His body was sliced dozens of times with some kind of heavy-bladed knife, like a meat cleaver or a machete. His right hand was nearly severed.
Speaker 4 And oddly, there was some kind of blue towel-like material wound around the body.
Speaker 11 The blue towel was wrapped all around it, from the torso and legs all the way up to the neck area. It was wrapped around five times around the neck and then several times around the eyes.
Speaker 4 One thing was clear to police. This murder was personal.
Speaker 11 After looking at the victim's injuries, I would say that it was really consistent with somebody who had some sort of heat of passion because the injuries are just consistent with somebody very angry.
Speaker 4 Detectives had so many questions. Who was this man and why had this happened to him?
Speaker 11 One of the problems we had is we have no identification on the victim.
Speaker 4
Another day passed. It was now Monday.
Gonzalo's family heard that a body had been found in the area. Praying it wasn't their brother, they called police.
Speaker 11 When this man called, he identified himself as he had a brother that was missing from Santa Ana area, and he was possibly kidnapped.
Speaker 11 And so he thought that it was very possibly his brother that was the victim.
Speaker 4
Police were able to connect the dots rather quickly. The body they'd found was that of Gonzalo Ramirez.
And when his family went to identify his remains, they couldn't believe how he looked.
Speaker 4 Gonzalo's brother, Benito.
Speaker 21 When we pick up my brother, we couldn't recognize his face.
Speaker 20 It's very sad.
Speaker 20 You know,
Speaker 20 I don't want nobody seen or one of his family like
Speaker 20 we saw it.
Speaker 4 Gonzalo left behind two little daughters, just one and two years old.
Speaker 21
He was a very good person. He was a responsible person.
We have no idea why.
Speaker 4 Police were also trying to find out why. Their only witness was Gonzalo's friend, the last person to see him alive.
Speaker 10 He was pretty detailed and able to give the responding officers at that time a lot of good physical descriptions of both the vehicle and the suspects.
Speaker 4 But the friend said he had no idea who the men in the white van were or why a fender bender turned into a kidnapping and murder. Where do you go from there when you don't even know who these men are?
Speaker 10 Well, generally, you would start with the individual who's been kidnapped, looking into their background, seeing what's going on in their life, whether they have financial issues, maybe a love relationship that's ended.
Speaker 4 Detectives interviewed Gonzalo's friends, work associates, and family members and got nothing.
Speaker 10 I don't think they were able to provide anything that really could point the detectives at that time in the right direction.
Speaker 4 But eventually, investigators stumbled across something in Gonzalo's home, something very curious scribbled on his phone bill.
Speaker 10 There was a handwritten note that said Patty,
Speaker 10 and
Speaker 10 there were two numbers.
Speaker 4 Was this Patty someone they needed to talk to right away?
Speaker 10 It was
Speaker 6 Coming up.
Speaker 5 I was just weeping and crying. It was really hard.
Speaker 6 Patty is about to open up to the police.
Speaker 4 That's kind of a twist. That threw a whole new element into the investigation.
Speaker 6 When dateline continues.
Speaker 4 Santa Ana police were trying to solve the mystery of who had kidnapped, tortured, and murdered Gonzalo Ramirez.
Speaker 4 The leads were thin until they stumbled across Gonzalo's phone bill, where he'd written the name Patty, along with two phone numbers. They were eager to find her.
Speaker 4 Mike Murray, then an Orange County Deputy District Attorney, didn't work this investigation back in 1995, but later joined the case. They called this Patty?
Speaker 8 They did.
Speaker 4 And where did it lead them?
Speaker 8 They contacted her, and she agreed to come down to the police department and discuss Gonzalo Ramirez.
Speaker 4 The mysterious Patty, it turned out, was then college student Patricia Esparza.
Speaker 22 I'm Detective Maza. This is Corporal Buckles who worked for the Santa Ana Police Department.
Speaker 8 She told the police that Gonzalo Ramirez was a young man that she had met at a club in Santa Ana. several weeks prior,
Speaker 5 that
Speaker 8
they had danced together. She liked him.
He seemed to like her. They exchanged phone numbers.
Speaker 4
That's how her name and numbers came to be scribbled on Gonzalo's phone bill. But Patricia didn't seem too concerned about why she was being questioned about Gonzalo.
At what point does she say,
Speaker 4 what is this about?
Speaker 4 Why are you asking me about this man?
Speaker 8 She never does.
Speaker 4 She never asked?
Speaker 8 I don't ever recall her asking that question to the police during that interview.
Speaker 4 In the interview, Patricia reluctantly told her story about what happened in the dorm room with Gonzalo.
Speaker 22 While in your dorm, he took sexual advances of you
Speaker 22 to the point of even possibly being raped by him.
Speaker 7 Is this correct?
Speaker 5 Yes. He turned around and kissed me and I just stopped in my way.
Speaker 5 And
Speaker 5 I got up at that instant when he kissed me and
Speaker 5 I was walking towards another chair and then he got up also and
Speaker 5 that's when it happened.
Speaker 8 She told the police that he had sexually assaulted her.
Speaker 4
That's kind of a twist. I mean that threw a whole new element into the investigation.
What did they make of it?
Speaker 8 Well initially they just wanted to hear what she had to say.
Speaker 4 She said the rape happened about two and a half months earlier, but this was the first time she was reporting it to the police. All the while, she says her world was falling apart.
Speaker 5
I was just weeping and crying. It was really hard, really hard to put myself together.
I wasn't doing my assignments as I should have. My migrates were dropping, and so I...
Speaker 5 I wasn't able to deal with the rape as well as I had wished I had.
Speaker 4 She also told police that after the alleged rape, she confided in an ex-boyfriend named Guiani Van.
Speaker 4 They dated for about seven months, but were no longer together. Still, one day when Gianni stopped by her dorm room, she broke down and told him what happened.
Speaker 4 That must have been hard to finally open up.
Speaker 5 Yeah, yeah. I didn't feel that I...
Speaker 5 that I wanted to, but I guess I did want somebody to be there and understand.
Speaker 5 I wanted somebody to just listen to me and just make me feel that it wasn't...
Speaker 5 that I wasn't so dirty and so ashamed.
Speaker 4 Did he help you? Did he make you feel better?
Speaker 5 At first,
Speaker 5 but then
Speaker 5 he became angry, and I didn't understand why. I mean, yes, you know, of course, you would be
Speaker 5 angry, of course, if somebody did it to your sister or to your friend, but we weren't together anymore.
Speaker 4 She told detectives about Gianni, and they listened very carefully.
Speaker 16 Did you have a boyfriend at that time?
Speaker 24 What's his name?
Speaker 5 Gianni A. Ben.
Speaker 25 What is it? Gianni.
Speaker 5 Well, Well, he wasn't my boyfriend at that time, actually.
Speaker 22 We have broken up.
Speaker 20 He was upset about it.
Speaker 22 Yeah, of course.
Speaker 8 She did tell Gianni that she had been raped by a man named Gonzalo, but she said she wouldn't tell Guiani what his full name was or anything about how to locate him, that she just wanted Guiani to comfort her, didn't want him to try and find this guy and retaliate in any way.
Speaker 4 Was he expressing that he did want to retaliate?
Speaker 8 She said that he was angry. She didn't say he wanted to retaliate, just that he was angry and he wanted to know more details than she wanted to disclose.
Speaker 4 An angry ex-boyfriend? Could he have been angry enough to track down Gonzalo on his own? Investigator Dean Fulcher. Did this give the detectives something to
Speaker 4 cling on to, that he was so angry about
Speaker 4 the rape claim?
Speaker 10 Absolutely. I mean, you now have a motive for somebody wanting to do
Speaker 10 what they had done to Mr. Ramirez.
Speaker 4 Detectives wanted to talk with Guiani Vann, and they would soon find a key piece of evidence that they believed could tie him to this murder. So the detectives must be thinking we've got our guy.
Speaker 8 They did.
Speaker 6 Coming up.
Speaker 26 You tell me right now why you're not the guy.
Speaker 6 Intense moments in the interrogation room.
Speaker 27 Was it a meat cleaver?
Speaker 6 Just what kind of evidence did they have against the man named Guiani Van?
Speaker 8 It was a huge clue.
Speaker 4 After speaking with Patricia Sparza about the murder of Gonzalo Ramirez, police quickly developed a theory of the case. Patricia told them she had met Gonzalo at a dance club.
Speaker 4 The next day, he allegedly raped her, and that after hearing about that rape, her ex-boyfriend, Guiani Vann, became enraged.
Speaker 4 Investigators now believed this could be a case of an old boyfriend seeking revenge, and they wanted to find Guiani.
Speaker 4 They go to talk to him?
Speaker 10 They did interview Mr. Vann.
Speaker 4 And where did that go?
Speaker 10 He denied any involvement with the death of Gonzalo Ramirez.
Speaker 4 In fact, Guiani told police he couldn't have had any role in the murder because Patricia knew few details about Gonzalo, including how to find him.
Speaker 28
I asked her, Do you know where this guy lives? And she goes, No. Do you know who this guy is? She goes, No, I just met him at the club and I don't know.
He seems like a nice guy.
Speaker 28 And that's how I just, and he offered a ride home, and that's it.
Speaker 4 Prosecutor Mike Murray says when Guiani came in for questioning, investigators weren't buying his story.
Speaker 8 They questioned his story, particularly when they learned that he had a white van registered to him.
Speaker 4 White van was there rear-ending Gonzalo.
Speaker 8 Exactly.
Speaker 4 Which is a big clue in this case.
Speaker 8 It was a huge clue.
Speaker 4 Remember, the only eyewitness said several men in a white van beat and kidnapped Gonzalo after a minor fender bender.
Speaker 4 Where was the van?
Speaker 8 When the police asked Gianni if he was familiar with a white van
Speaker 8 or if he owned one, Gianni denied owning one. When they confronted him with the fact that there was a white Astro van that was registered in his name, Guiani said, well, I don't own the van.
Speaker 8 It's registered under my name, but it actually belongs to a guy I know who owns a transmission shop.
Speaker 4 Police got a search warrant for the accurate transmission shop. Sure enough, the white van registered to Guiani was there, but that's not all they found.
Speaker 8 The people who processed the transmission shop saw one single drop of blood in an office.
Speaker 4 And investigators found something else. Remember those old-style towel dispensers in gas station bathrooms? The shop had that exact type of dispenser.
Speaker 8 The towel dispenser had blue cloth towels in the dispenser. And the towels that were wrapped around or the cloth that was wrapped around Gonzalo Ramirez was blue cloth.
Speaker 4 Yet later, when that blood drop found in the shop was tested, the result was less than conclusive. Did the blood match Gonzalo?
Speaker 10 When they ran the DNA profile, they couldn't exclude Mr. Ramirez, but in no way was it strong enough to say that it was his.
Speaker 4 That was a problem for the investigation. So police brought Guiani, the ex-boyfriend, back in a second time for questioning.
Speaker 30 This is Lozano badge number 586.
Speaker 26 I'm going to be conducting an interview of Guiani Van.
Speaker 4 But this time, police had more more information. They learned that Guiani was good friends with the transmission shop owner.
Speaker 30
The relationship between you and the girlfriend, and then Gonzalo, and then accurate transmission and the van. All that comes into play quite obviously.
There's a chain there. It's an unbroken chain.
Speaker 26 The common denominator,
Speaker 30 the common denominator, you understand what I'm saying, right? You're an intelligent guy, you're educated,
Speaker 28 is
Speaker 26 Gianni Van.
Speaker 28 Okay.
Speaker 4 So all arrows were pointing at Guiani.
Speaker 11 Exactly.
Speaker 8 If Miss Esparza has no connection to accurate transmission, then
Speaker 31 you're the link.
Speaker 4
The detectives pressed Guiani, asking about the weapon they thought was used to kill Gonzalo. Was it a meat cleaver? I don't even know what you're talking about.
Was it a meat cleaver?
Speaker 4 This whole entire thing, I don't know what you're talking about, sir.
Speaker 30 You know what I would be talking about.
Speaker 4 Guiani told police he could never kill another human being.
Speaker 26 Tell me why you're not not the guy.
Speaker 26 You tell me right now, you tell me why you're not the guy and why you shouldn't be going to jail for murder.
Speaker 29 Because
Speaker 32 I am not an angry type of person.
Speaker 32 I've always been a loving person.
Speaker 32 I'm not quick to like have a temper and I don't...
Speaker 32 I would never think of such a thing. That's...
Speaker 27 Absurd. Everything's there.
Speaker 4 We got the motive.
Speaker 27 But see, Gianni,
Speaker 27 I am right at this point, at this juncture of the interview.
Speaker 26 It's coming to a close now. If you don't come out and give me more.
Speaker 26 Guiani,
Speaker 30 you're going to be going to jail for murder.
Speaker 28 Okay. I don't know about anything.
Speaker 32 I swear to God, I don't know anything about what you're talking about.
Speaker 4 Despite his denials, in March of 1996, nearly a year after the body was found, detectives arrested Guiani Van for the murder of Gonzalo Ramirez.
Speaker 4 But what investigators didn't know was that Patricia had more secrets that would have a big impact on their case.
Speaker 6 Coming up.
Speaker 5 I feared for my life.
Speaker 6 Patricia and Gianni Vann, their relationship was far from over.
Speaker 4 This is a major game changer. Absolutely.
Speaker 5 I didn't know that people were capable of that.
Speaker 6 When Dateline continues.
Speaker 4
Police thought they had a solid case against Guiani Vann for the murder of Gonzalo Ramirez. Investigators were largely basing their case on the words of Patricia Sparza.
She said Gonzalo raped her.
Speaker 4 She confided in Guiani, and he got very angry, giving him a motive for murder. But then, prosecutors found out something surprising, something that changed everything.
Speaker 8 Ms. Esparza and Guiani Vann had gotten married in Las Vegas after the murder.
Speaker 4 Patricia, who told authorities Guiani was her ex-boyfriend, had secretly married him one month after the murder. Investigator Dean Fulcher.
Speaker 10 Based upon the spousal privilege in the state of California,
Speaker 10 in no way was Patricia gonna
Speaker 10 be forced to testify against Guiani, who was still denying any involvement.
Speaker 4 Without her testimony, said prosecutor Mike Murray, it would be very hard to prosecute Guiani. This is a major game changer.
Speaker 8 Absolutely. Because Ms.
Speaker 8 Esparza had so much information and was so enmeshed in the case that the prosecution would be hampered to the point that they wouldn't be able to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt.
Speaker 8 So rather than put the case in front of a jury and take the chance that without all that critical background information that the jury wouldn't have a full picture, The decision was made to dismiss the case against Guiani Van.
Speaker 4 So Guiani walked, and investigators were, to say the least, unhappy with Patricia Esparza.
Speaker 10 I, as well as the detectives prior to me, knew that they got married for the simple fact they needed to keep Patricia from testifying against Guiani.
Speaker 4 Why would Patricia do that? She told us that in no way was she trying to protect Guiani or the other men in the white van from that night. She said she had no choice.
Speaker 4 Guiani forced her into the marriage. So how do you get into this situation? It sounds almost...
Speaker 5 Yeah.
Speaker 4 Like, how does that happen?
Speaker 5 You know, I was, uh, again, I was 20. I was not very sophisticated in terms of being street-wise.
Speaker 4 But why say yes? Why say yes, I'll marry you?
Speaker 5 Because I feared for my life.
Speaker 5 When I was told I had to marry him, that's when I learned that Gonzalo Ramirez had been killed. And I thought to myself, oh my goodness,
Speaker 5 if they are able to do that to him, what are they going to do to me if I don't follow what they say?
Speaker 4 Patricia says besides being naive, she was also extremely vulnerable. She described herself as haunted, a victim of an alleged rape in college and sexual abuse as a child.
Speaker 4 She questioned her own judgment and wondered how she could have ever dated Guiani in the first place. After all, he was accused of a horrendous murder, one that included butchering the victim.
Speaker 5 I didn't know
Speaker 5 that people were capable of that. Of course, you read things in the newspaper, you see things on TV, but you never think that it's going to cross your path.
Speaker 5 You never think that you are actually going to
Speaker 5 befriend a person that's capable of doing that.
Speaker 4 Why not just go to the police and tell them everything?
Speaker 5
I wish they had told me we will protect you. We will protect you if you come forward.
I wish they had told me that. I.
Speaker 5 I didn't know. I didn't know that they were capable of protecting me.
Speaker 4 And so, she says, she agreed to marry a man she believed was a murderer. Were you in love when you married him?
Speaker 5
No, absolutely not. I was trapped.
I just felt like I felt that it was another punishment for me. We never
Speaker 5
lived together. Nobody knew about the marriage.
I mean, how could you possibly be in love with somebody who's so horrific?
Speaker 4 Patricia says she soon dropped all contact with Guiani, but that didn't change her status as his wife. So a marriage was potentially keeping a murderer free.
Speaker 19 Correct.
Speaker 4 Even though police thought they'd solve the murder, it went into the cold case file. As for Patricia, she says she just wanted to put the whole unbelievable tragedy behind her and get her life back.
Speaker 5 I thought to myself, you're not going to allow them to take away what's so valuable, and that's the ability to trust. How in the world am I going to continue on?
Speaker 4
But she did. She studied abroad in Africa, then graduated from Pomona, the first person in her family to get a college degree.
She went on to work as a political activist.
Speaker 4 All the while, Santa Ana detective Dean Fulcher was keeping track of her and Guiani Van. Patricia's life really changed over the years.
Speaker 5 Yes.
Speaker 4
Three, four, five years passed. The terrible events in California seemed further and further away.
And in 2000 came another dramatic turn in Patricia's life when she met a distinguished scholar.
Speaker 17 She had this freshness, this honesty that I found very rare.
Speaker 4 Of course, he had no idea about the dark secrets in her past.
Speaker 6 Coming up.
Speaker 5 He's been my strength ever since I met him.
Speaker 6 A new romance and a stunning revelation.
Speaker 17 She broke down and started crying. I was willing to take any risks, whatever it was, in order to be with her.
Speaker 4 At just 20 years old, Patricia Sparza had experienced a lifetime of unbelievable tragedy. She says she was sexually abused by her father, raped in college.
Speaker 4 An ex-boyfriend allegedly murdered her rapist, and that she was secretly forced to marry that ex to keep him out of jail. She says it nearly broke her until she met someone special.
Speaker 4 This was really a fresh start for you.
Speaker 5
Yeah, absolutely. Dating Jorge.
Yes, absolutely. He's a wonderful,
Speaker 5 wonderful human being.
Speaker 4 His name was Jorge Mancias.
Speaker 4 What was it like the first time you laid eyes on Patricia?
Speaker 17 When I met Patricia, I saw this tiny little woman who was intelligent, very well organized, a real leader. She was inspiring everybody around her.
Speaker 4 Patricia, now 25 years old, fell for Jorge while they worked together on a California political campaign. Did you two have an instant connection?
Speaker 19 I certainly was taken by her very, very quickly.
Speaker 17 We both came from very limited environments in Mexico. We both had worked hard to open up opportunities for ourselves through education.
Speaker 4
Just like Patricia, Jorge was a high achiever with a PhD in neuroscience. They both had degrees in psychology.
And one thing he particularly admired in Patricia was her desire to help people.
Speaker 17 She wanted to get a PhD at the Paul University because they had this
Speaker 17 children's clinic.
Speaker 17 Because she wanted to help children children
Speaker 17 learn how to deal with the difficult circumstances she faced as a child.
Speaker 4 It wasn't long before the 48-year-old decided he wanted to spend the rest of his life with Patricia. He proposed to her at New York's World Trade Center in August of 2001.
Speaker 17 Patricia was thrilled when I proposed to get married and she, of course, accepted.
Speaker 4 Did you feel like finally my life has taken a turn for the better and maybe I can put all of this behind me.
Speaker 5
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.
He's been my strength ever since I met him.
Speaker 4 But within hours of that proposal, everything suddenly turned upside down.
Speaker 17 But that night she broke down and started crying and told me that she couldn't marry me because she was already married, that it was a forced marriage, not a real marriage. But she couldn't tell me.
Speaker 17 the circumstances because she felt it would put me at a risk and she didn't want me to live under the threat she was living under.
Speaker 4 So this is the first time you're hearing about her past?
Speaker 17 Yeah, she refused to tell me and she was crying
Speaker 17 and she I had never seen her like that.
Speaker 4 Patricia says she begged Jorge not to ask her details about her first marriage.
Speaker 5
He was very respectful of my privacy. He didn't ask me.
I told him not to ask me because I wasn't able to tell him.
Speaker 5 And he said, well, whatever it is, we're going to deal with this together.
Speaker 4 The couple faced a dilemma. They wanted to become husband and wife, but of course couldn't since Patricia was already married.
Speaker 4 So Jorge hired a lawyer and Patricia ended up telling that attorney everything.
Speaker 17 After she talked to this lawyer, he told me that he couldn't share the facts with me. but that she was right, that it was better for me not to know.
Speaker 4 One thing he did know was that he really wanted to marry Patricia. So he asked that lawyer to help.
Speaker 4 After three long years of negotiations, nine years after the murder, Guiani finally agreed to a divorce. Jorge and Patricia soon got married, but Jorge still didn't know her deep secrets.
Speaker 4 Weren't you so curious?
Speaker 19 Oh, I was curious.
Speaker 17 I was completely mystified by why it was
Speaker 17 and what it was that was so threatening.
Speaker 4 Was it because you loved her so much, you were willing?
Speaker 17 I not only loved her, but I realized how unique she was.
Speaker 17 I felt so at ease with someone who I felt I could completely trust, that I was willing to take any risks, whatever it was that was lurking in her past, in order to be with her.
Speaker 4 In 2004, the couple wed. Life moved on, and they relocated to a small town in France.
Speaker 4 Both commuted to jobs in nearby Geneva. Patricia worked for the World Health Organization as a consultant and became a psychology professor at a local university.
Speaker 4 Five years later, in 2009, came another life-changing event. The couple welcomed a daughter, Ariana.
Speaker 4 After all that you've been through, what was that like, the birth of your daughter? Must have been almost like a rebirth.
Speaker 5 Oh my goodness.
Speaker 5 I know that every parent knows how different the world looks once you have a little, tiny little human being looking up at you.
Speaker 5 You feel that you want to go out there and actually create a better world.
Speaker 4
Finally, Patricia had a loving husband, a happy family, a successful professional career. She even rubbed elbows with the likes of Hillary Clinton.
It was the life she always dreamed of.
Speaker 4 The secrets, lies, the murder all seemed to be hidden away on the other side of the world.
Speaker 4 But 6,000 miles away, a prosecutor wasn't ready to move on. He didn't care that this was now a 15-year-old cold case.
Speaker 8 Sometimes things that seem like a big blow are the best thing that could happen to a case.
Speaker 4 The best evidence was yet to come.
Speaker 8 In this case, it wasn't scientific breakthroughs. It was time.
Speaker 6 Coming up, an explosive new detail about that night.
Speaker 8 It certainly made me realize that Patricia was involved.
Speaker 6 The past Patricia thought she'd escaped is about to come charging back.
Speaker 8 She had lied. I wanted to see why she did that.
Speaker 6 When Dateline continues.
Speaker 34 Hi, I'm Jenny Slate. And believe it or not, someone is allowing us to have a podcast.
Speaker 5 I'm Gabe Leidman.
Speaker 33
I'm Max Silvestri. And we've been friends for 20 years.
And we like to reach out to kind of get advice on how to live our lives.
Speaker 25 It's called I Need You Guys.
Speaker 33 Should I give my baby fresh vegetables?
Speaker 34 Can I drink the water at the hospital?
Speaker 25 My landlord plays the trombone and I can't ask him to stop.
Speaker 4 You should make sure that you subscribe so that you never miss an episode.
Speaker 22 I need you, girl.
Speaker 14 Just got a new puppy or kitten.
Speaker 5 Congrats!
Speaker 14 But also, yikes. Between crates, beds, toys, treats, and those first few vet visits, you've probably already dropped a small fortune, which is where limited pet insurance comes in.
Speaker 14
It helps cover vet costs so you can focus on what's best for your new pet. The coverage is customizable.
Signup is quick and easy, and your claims are handled in as little as three seconds. Pro tip.
Speaker 14
Lemonade offers a package specifically for puppies and kittens. Get a quote at lemonade.com slash pet.
Your future self will thank you. Your pet won't.
Speaker 4 They don't know what insurance is.
Speaker 15 Fun fact, you can't get pregnant every day. You're only fertile for six days, ovulation day and the five days leading up to it.
Speaker 15 Natural Cycles is the only birth control app that can pinpoint your fertile window by analyzing your hormone-driven temperature trends. It's more than just a basic cycle tracking app.
Speaker 15 Natural Cycles is the only FDA-cleared and CE-marked birth control app and has helped millions prevent and plan for pregnancy naturally. Save 15% when you sign up today with code RADIO15.
Speaker 15 Learn more at naturalcycles.com.
Speaker 6 Distinguished career, devoted husband, darling new daughter, Professor Patricia Patricia Esparza now had the life she'd always wanted. She thought she'd buried the secrets of her past.
Speaker 6 But a family in California could not forget what happened 15 years ago, and investigators would not let it go. Kidnapping, murder.
Speaker 6 It turns out there was more to what happened that night than the professor had let anyone know. Again, Andrea Canning.
Speaker 4 While Patricia Esparza was building her perfect life as a professor, a wife, and mother, the murder of Gonzalo Ramirez remained unsolved.
Speaker 4 Gonzalo's two daughters were just toddlers when their father was killed. By 2010, they were young women, growing up in Mexico with just some photographs to remember him.
Speaker 35 It's not the same.
Speaker 14 It was very hard.
Speaker 4 It felt like we really wanted him to be there. Gonzalo's brother, Carlos, saw the pain.
Speaker 20 I see on
Speaker 20 eyes they get sad, you know.
Speaker 20 It's really sad.
Speaker 4 Carlos and his brother Benito were left with so many questions.
Speaker 21 We felt frustrated because
Speaker 21 we couldn't find out
Speaker 21 what happened, why my brother
Speaker 21 was killed, and we didn't know nothing.
Speaker 4 Investigator Dean Fulcher had carefully reviewed the case file from the mid-1990s. What did you want to take a second look at?
Speaker 10 At that time, DNA in the mid-90s was fairly new, but it was also advancing rapidly. So I just simply requested that the crime lab
Speaker 10 re-examine the blood.
Speaker 4 The blood found in the transmission shop, the shop that the prime suspect, Guiani Van, had access to. The original DNA test said the blood might be Gonzalo's, but it was far from certain.
Speaker 4 Was there something different the second time around?
Speaker 10 Yeah, there was a significant change, although the crime lab couldn't say
Speaker 10 it was definitively Mr. Ramirez,
Speaker 10 the numbers were astronomical that it had to be his.
Speaker 4 More sophisticated testing led to a stronger conclusion.
Speaker 10 Mr. Ramirez had been inside that transmission shop.
Speaker 4 So, in 2010, 15 years after the murder, investigator Fulcher brought the case to prosecutor Mike Murray, who was known for his work on cold cases. Murray, in turn, contacted Gonzalo's brothers.
Speaker 4 He says they were surprised to hear from him.
Speaker 8 Both brothers said that they had figured that with all the years that
Speaker 8 had gone past since Gonzalo's murder, that nobody was paying attention anymore.
Speaker 8 That he was just another young Hispanic man who had been killed, and the police probably weren't even investigating the case anymore.
Speaker 4 The confirmation of Gonzalo's DNA in the shop was an important step, but the prosecutor knew they needed more. A stronger connection between Gonzalo Ramirez and his suspected killer, Guiani Van.
Speaker 8 We still needed to establish
Speaker 8 how it is that
Speaker 8 Guiani would have known
Speaker 8 who it was who allegedly raped Mrs. Sparza.
Speaker 4 Was that kind of the missing piece all along?
Speaker 8 To me, that was.
Speaker 4 Patricia was the key to helping them connect the dots. But as far as the authorities knew, she was still married to Guiani and could not be compelled to testify against him.
Speaker 10 I was constantly running their social security numbers, all their information, finding out where they were. I would then try to locate a divorce certificate wherever they were.
Speaker 4
So you're just constantly doing random record checks? Correct. It took years of random checks.
But finally, the detective got a hit for Patricia in Chicago, where she had attended graduate school.
Speaker 4 With one phone call, he learned Patricia and Guiani were no longer married. How did that feel after
Speaker 4 all those years that you finally get a hit on a divorce certificate?
Speaker 6 It felt good. There's no doubt about that.
Speaker 4 He immediately caught a plane to Chicago.
Speaker 10 Our next move was to just show up at her doorstep and try to have a conversation with her.
Speaker 4
Surprise. We're here.
Yes. What happened?
Speaker 10 Well, we got to Chicago and we found out she had married and moved to Europe.
Speaker 4 Moved to France, out of his jurisdiction. Was it a bit of a game of cat and mouse with Patricia?
Speaker 23 Yeah, you could call it that.
Speaker 4 Fulcher's partner wrote an email to Patricia asking for her assistance in their investigation.
Speaker 4 He wrote, I hope you believe me when I tell you that you are not a person of interest, nor are you a suspect in this case.
Speaker 4 Did you all believe that at the time, or was that more of a little technique to get her out of the
Speaker 4 rabbit hole?
Speaker 10 I think there was a thought thought process amongst all of us that we honestly didn't know if she was involved or not.
Speaker 10 And my intent, if we could ever get an interview with her, was to try to get her to give us the information we needed to arrest Guiani.
Speaker 4 Your primary goal was to talk to her.
Speaker 5 Correct.
Speaker 4
But the email didn't work. Patricia wouldn't agree to be interviewed.
However, investigators didn't stop there in building a case.
Speaker 4 If Prosecutor Murray couldn't get Patricia to testify, he needed to find someone else who could link Guiani and Gonzalo.
Speaker 4 Is it like finding a needle in a haystack, finding that person to shed light on that?
Speaker 8 As it turns out, no.
Speaker 4
Rereading the file, he noticed a name, Nancy Luna. She'd been with Patricia and her sister the night they'd met Gonzalo at El Cortez.
Murray sent investigator Dean Fulcher to re-interview her.
Speaker 4 And when he did, Luna told him something that changed the case completely. She said that Patricia brought Guiani to the club and identified Gonzalo as the man who raped her.
Speaker 8 She told her boyfriend who Gonzalo Ramirez was and brought him back to the club and pointed him out to her boyfriend.
Speaker 4
This was a bombshell. Patricia had told police all along she didn't know anything about the murder.
Now, a new witness could place Patricia in the club with Guiani the night Gonzalo was killed.
Speaker 4 Did that change the focus of Patricia?
Speaker 8 It certainly certainly made me realize
Speaker 8 that Patricia was involved.
Speaker 4 It also made him take a fresh look at everything Patricia had said to police. It led to a disturbing conclusion.
Speaker 8 Even after knowing that Gonzalo Ramirez had been brutally murdered, she was willing to sit down at the age of 19 or 20 with hardened homicide investigators from the Santa Ana Police Department and look them in the eye and lie to them repeatedly.
Speaker 4 Now Murray had a stronger case against Guiani and he was starting to think he might have a case against Patricia as well. So of course he wanted to question Patricia.
Speaker 8
I wanted Mrs. Sparza to know that we knew that she had lied and that she had tried to derail a murder investigation for 20 years.
I wanted to see why she did that.
Speaker 8 I wanted to give her an opportunity to explain why she would marry the person who seemed to be the prime suspect in a brutal murder.
Speaker 4 But remember, Patricia was in France, out of reach.
Speaker 8
When somebody's in another country and you don't have jurisdiction, there's not a lot you can do. She was not willing to speak, which was her right.
She didn't have to.
Speaker 4 Their only hope was that she would return to the U.S., so they put her name on the Homeland Security watch list in case she did. The next move was hers.
Speaker 8 So we waited. Waited for Miss Esparza to come back to the United States.
Speaker 6 Coming up, a surprise for the professor.
Speaker 5 That was the longest night of my life.
Speaker 6 And another for investigators.
Speaker 5 Konsella was there at the club.
Speaker 4 I identified him. Did any of the details surprise you?
Speaker 10 I didn't realize she was involved as deep as she was.
Speaker 4 October 2012, 17 years after the murder of Gonzalo Ramirez, prosecutor Mike Murray got the call he'd been waiting for. Patricia Esparza had boarded a plane in Geneva headed for the U.S.
Speaker 4 I know you're a patient man, but was it a bit of a shock when you got that call?
Speaker 8 It was a bit of a shock and I was getting impatient.
Speaker 4 Do you just hop on a plane to go talk to her?
Speaker 8 That's exactly what we did.
Speaker 5 I was coming to the U.S. for professional travels and
Speaker 5 Boston was a layover for me.
Speaker 4 She made her way through customs at Logan Airport and handed her passport to the customs officer.
Speaker 5 I noticed something was wrong when he stopped talking and he started to turn red. He
Speaker 5 asked me for my social security number to make sure that I was the person that was on the screen. And
Speaker 5 I realized at that point that something was wrong, that this was not a regular procedure. And that's when
Speaker 5 he gave a document to another woman, another officer who took me to a back room, searched through my luggage, and then handcuffed me.
Speaker 4 Patricia had no idea that Murray was about to confront her with new evidence and new suspicions about the role she may have played in Gonzalo's murder.
Speaker 5 That was the longest night of my life.
Speaker 4 The meeting happened at a holding facility in the airport.
Speaker 8
I wasn't naïve. She had lied to investigators in 1995.
She'd married the primary suspect in the case. She had a life in France that I'm sure she didn't want to give up.
Speaker 8 I was reasonably certain that she wasn't going to talk to us.
Speaker 4 Did you get anything?
Speaker 8 No.
Speaker 8 We didn't.
Speaker 4 That must have been really frustrating.
Speaker 8 To me, it was more about
Speaker 8 giving her that opportunity and having her remember that opportunity later down the line.
Speaker 4
Murray then delivered a big blow Patricia never saw coming. He charged her with first-degree murder.
Was that just a complete shock?
Speaker 5 Oh, absolutely. And the first thought that ran through my head was, what is going to happen to my daughter?
Speaker 4
She called her husband, Jorge Mencias, who was back in France with their three-year-old daughter. He knew Patricia had a dark secret, but never knew how dark.
Are you thinking now I need to know?
Speaker 19 Oh, I need to.
Speaker 4 I need to know what happened.
Speaker 17 So she told me the basic points of the case, and then I immediately started searching now that I had names, now that I had some information.
Speaker 4 Patricia was brought back to Orange County, to a jail in Santa Ana.
Speaker 5 I felt as if I was transported into a different planet when I went into jail.
Speaker 5
I mean, that is a world that was completely just unknown to me. How you have no control over what you eat, when you eat it, where you eat it, when you sleep.
Everything is stripped away from you.
Speaker 4 The prosecutor hoped some time in jail with a murder charge hanging over her head might finally cause Patricia to break her silence about what happened to Gonzalo Ramirez.
Speaker 8
I made it very clear to her attorney in the beginning that I was interested in speaking to Mrs. Barza.
if that was something that she wanted to do.
Speaker 8 That I couldn't make any promises about what would or wouldn't happen with her case, but that I would give her an opportunity to make an immunized statement.
Speaker 8 We would assess what it is that she had to say, and then we would decide whether we would offer her anything
Speaker 8 or nothing.
Speaker 4
Patricia spent two months behind bars. Finally, in December 2012, she broke.
Behind closed doors, Patricia and the prosecutor came face to face once again.
Speaker 29
I don't know if you remember Mrs. Sparza.
I met you in Boston.
Speaker 4 With her lawyer sitting next to her, Patricia finally opened up, starting with the encounter with Gonzalo Ramirez all those years ago in her dorm room.
Speaker 9 As I struggled more, he became
Speaker 9 a bit more aggressive.
Speaker 9 I was pushing him back, and
Speaker 9 at some point he pinned me down and I was wearing a pair of jeans and he took those off.
Speaker 4 She told the prosecutor how she then confided in Guiani about the alleged rape.
Speaker 9
That infuriated him. He got really upset.
He asked me who was it.
Speaker 9 And I told him his name is Gonzalo. Where did you meet him?
Speaker 5 I met him at El Cortez.
Speaker 4 And for the first time with investigators, she admitted that she was at the club the night Gonzalo was killed.
Speaker 9 I remember Guiani being really
Speaker 9 on edge that night. And
Speaker 9
I just felt... I felt so much pressure at that point.
And we went to El Cortez.
Speaker 5 We were there for...
Speaker 9
I don't know. I actually don't know.
I don't know.
Speaker 9 But Gonzalo was there at the club. And I...
Speaker 9 I identified him.
Speaker 29 When Guiani told you he wanted you to point this guy out,
Speaker 29 did he tell you what he was going to do?
Speaker 9 Uh...
Speaker 9 Intimidate him, scare him, rough him up.
Speaker 4 The long, cold case turned white hot.
Speaker 4 Police thought they they finally had enough evidence and arrested guian y van a second time for the murder of gonzalo ramirez and this time they made more arrests to other people who were at the transmission shop that night it was clearly a plan
Speaker 8 they had identified gonzalo ramirez at the club they'd followed him from the club they'd staged a car accident they'd kidnapped him they'd taken him back to a transmission shop from Santa Ana to Costa Mesa, and then they dumped his body in Irvine.
Speaker 8 That didn't just happen spontaneously.
Speaker 4 All of them pleaded not guilty. It took a long time, but Gonzalo's family felt they were finally getting some answers and possibly justice.
Speaker 21
We tell the prosecutor, we tell the detectives, we trust in you, we trust you guys. I hope this guy is gonna get what they deserve for the crime they did.
We still trust in the
Speaker 23 loss of California.
Speaker 4
Now authorities had to consider the fate of Patricia Sparza. On the one hand, her cooperation made the case against the other defendants.
On the other, she admitted to playing a role in the murder.
Speaker 4 Investigator Dean Fulcher. Did any of the details surprise you? about what Patricia had to say when she finally broke her silence?
Speaker 10
Yes, I knew she was the catalyst for this whole thing. I knew she had some involvement.
I didn't realize she was involved as deep as she was.
Speaker 4 Just how deeply? As you'll hear, that would become a matter of dispute.
Speaker 4 But in return for her cooperation, Patricia was granted bail and allowed to keep her passport, meaning she could return home to Europe.
Speaker 8 And in 20 years, I've never agreed to recommend bail on a special circumstance murder case.
Speaker 4 Why now?
Speaker 5 She
Speaker 8 was willing to use her mother's home as collateral
Speaker 8 and
Speaker 8 said that she would come back for any subsequent hearings.
Speaker 23 I didn't believe that she would
Speaker 8 jeopardize her mother's home and financial security and flee.
Speaker 4 Her husband, Jorge Mencius, was back in Europe trying to understand the secret his wife had kept from him for years.
Speaker 17 I couldn't understand how she could have been living with such traumatic events in her past.
Speaker 17 I was very moved that she tried to protect me because then I understood what was the threat for me and our family.
Speaker 4
So there was no anger. She should have told me.
I should have known what was going on.
Speaker 17 No, I felt frustrated because I thought that perhaps I could have done something had I known what the circumstances were.
Speaker 4 Patricia arrived home just before Christmas.
Speaker 5 I cherished every minute of the day when I was with my little daughter when I went back to Geneva.
Speaker 5 I felt so blessed and so fortunate that my life had been given back to me, the life that we had worked so hard to create.
Speaker 17 Those days around Christmas and New Year's were very happy. We thought the nightmare was over.
Speaker 4 But the nightmare was far from over.
Speaker 6 Coming up. Defiance.
Speaker 12 He is willing to destroy a family knowing that I'm innocent.
Speaker 6 The professor and her husband strike back.
Speaker 19 I know her heart.
Speaker 17 I know her soul.
Speaker 18 This is the persecution of an innocent woman.
Speaker 6 When Dateline continues.
Speaker 4 Many of the details of the murder plot that began with a strange kidnapping at this intersection in Santa Ana remained a mystery for almost 20 years.
Speaker 4 That was until Patricia Sparza was arrested and finally agreed to speak with investigators about the night Gonzalo Ramirez was killed.
Speaker 9 I was
Speaker 9 completely in shock. I felt it was clearly orchestrated and here I am.
Speaker 9 Oh my goodness.
Speaker 9 It had to be orchestrated.
Speaker 4 But her role in the case and the killing was far from clear. Was she a victim? A witness? Or something much more sinister?
Speaker 8 She had certainly allowed Gonzalo Ramirez's family to sit for 20 years and wonder what had happened to their brother, what had happened to their father.
Speaker 4 Do you think Patricia Esparza is just as responsible as the others?
Speaker 8 Well, when you say just as responsible, if you're asking
Speaker 8 if somebody aids and abets in a crime and is a willing participant in a crime, are they just as responsible in the eyes of the law?
Speaker 8 Are they guilty of that crime? The answer is yes, unequivocally. Yes.
Speaker 8 Are they morally as responsible? Maybe not. Maybe not.
Speaker 4 Patricia, charged with first-degree murder and out on bail, was offered a deal in exchange for her testifying against her ex-husband Guiani Van and the other co-defendants.
Speaker 4 The deal plead guilty to voluntary manslaughter and serve three years in prison. In November 2013, Patricia returned voluntarily to the United States for her next court hearing.
Speaker 4
At that time, the prosecutor was hopeful the deal was done. But Patricia had other plans.
She would take her case to the court of public opinion.
Speaker 4 She and her husband called a last-minute news conference outside the Orange County Courthouse.
Speaker 18
Good morning, and thanks for your patience. This is my wife, Dr.
Norma Patricia Sparsa. Dr.
Speaker 18 Sparsa has been charged with murder in the first degree with special circumstances, which carries the possibility of life imprisonment without parole for a murder she did not commit.
Speaker 18 She is being charged for the murder of the men who raped her 18 years ago.
Speaker 4 Standing with her four-year-old daughter, Ariana, Patricia made a very public statement aimed directly at the district attorney.
Speaker 12 It is unfortunate that he is willing to destroy a family, that he is willing to strip me away from my daughter, knowing that I'm innocent.
Speaker 12 It is unfortunate, and for that reason, we're coming forward and talking to you about it.
Speaker 4 She announced she was going to refuse the plea deal. She would not take the witness stand in the case against Guiani Van if it meant she had to plead guilty.
Speaker 12 The principle of what they're asking me is to plead guilty to something that they know I am not responsible for. It's essentially something that I cannot accept because it would essentially be a lie.
Speaker 4 Plus, she said, a conviction and prison sentence would destroy her professional reputation as a psychologist.
Speaker 17 This is not America.
Speaker 18 This is not justice.
Speaker 18 This is abuse of power. This is the persecution of an innocent woman who has never harmed anyone.
Speaker 4 The news conference struck a nerve around the world.
Speaker 4 She was the one who set things in motion. Patricia quickly gained supporters who saw her not as a suspect, but as a rape victim charged with a murder she didn't commit.
Speaker 4
The day after her news conference, Patricia appeared in court. After she officially turned down the prosecutor's plea deal, the judge issued a ruling.
I do find that the circumstances have changed.
Speaker 31 This matter is going to no bail.
Speaker 4 Patricia was handcuffed and sent back to jail. Her husband gave her one last hug as she was led away.
Speaker 17 And with his wife behind bars, he soon returned to Europe with ariana how do you explain to a four-year-old daughter what's happening to her mother when she asked me where mommy is
Speaker 17 i'm unable to explain it to her so i just tell her mommy will be back mommy will be back soon and i'm committed to do everything to make sure that happens jorge worked to drum up support for patricia Thousands of people signed a change.org petition.
Speaker 4 Was there any doubt in your mind
Speaker 4 that she was telling the truth?
Speaker 17
I believed Patricia's story immediately. There was no doubt in my mind.
I knew her heart. I knew her soul.
And I had no doubt that Patricia was innocent of any wrongdoing. I wanted to know the facts.
Speaker 17 I wanted to understand how it is that she was entangled in a situation like that.
Speaker 4 She had told her ever-changing story to police, to the prosecutor, to her husband. But how much would she be willing to tell us?
Speaker 5 It haunts me and has haunted me for the rest of my life.
Speaker 6 Coming up.
Speaker 4 He was still alive when they brought you to see him.
Speaker 6 Yeah. What was the truth?
Speaker 5 I was dragged, pressured, bullied, intimidated.
Speaker 6 Her full story at last.
Speaker 5 He destroyed the rest of my life.
Speaker 16 Hi there, it's Andy Richter, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast, The Three Questions with Andy Richter.
Speaker 16 Each week, I invite friends, comedians, actors, and musicians to discuss these three questions. Where do you come from? Where are you going? And what have you learned?
Speaker 16 New episodes are out every Tuesday with guests like Julie Bow and Ted Danson, Tig Natara, Will Arnett, Phoebe Bridgers, and more.
Speaker 16 You can also tune in for my weekly Andy Richter call-in show episodes, where me and a special guest invite callers to weigh in on topics like dating disasters, bad teachers, and lots more.
Speaker 16 Listen to the three questions with Andy Richter wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 If you're a smoker or dipper ready to make a change, you really only need one good reason. But with Zen nicotine pouches, you'll discover many good reasons.
Speaker 1 Zinn is America's number one nicotine pouch brand.
Speaker 3 Plus, Zinn offers a robust rewards program.
Speaker 1 There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction, but there's only one Zin. Check out Zinn.com/slash find to find Zin at a store near you.
Speaker 1 Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.
Speaker 13 If you're an experienced pet owner, you already know that having a pet is 25% belly rubs, 25% yelling, drop it, and 50% groaning at the bill from every vet visit.
Speaker 13 Which is why Lemonade Pet Insurance is tailor-made for your pet and can save you up to 90% on vet bills.
Speaker 13 It can help cover checkups, emergencies, diagnostics, basically all the stuff that makes your bank account nervous. Claims are filed super easy through the Lemonade app and half get settled instantly.
Speaker 13 Get a quote at lemonade.com slash pet and they'll help cover the vet bill for whatever your pet swallowed after you y'all drop it.
Speaker 4 Patricia Esparza, the petite psychology professor, was now an inmate wearing a blue jumpsuit. She was allowed to change her clothes for our interview.
Speaker 4 We sat down just days after she was ordered back to the Orange County Jail in 2013.
Speaker 4 Do you ask yourself, how did I get here?
Speaker 5
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.
I rewind so many events in my life. I rewind so many things in my mind, especially being here and having so much time to think about how things progressed.
Speaker 5 I just asked myself so many questions.
Speaker 4 She said for a year she answered the prosecutor's questions and even testified before a grand jury.
Speaker 5 I had no idea.
Speaker 5 I had no idea I was going to revisit that night again and again and again during these last 12 months.
Speaker 5 I'm taken back to those moments and I get flashbacks and I start to feel
Speaker 5 panic attacks and I have to really contain myself and bring myself back.
Speaker 4 Her cooperation led to murder charges for her ex-husband Guiani Van and two alleged accomplices who prosecutors say were involved in the death of Gonzalo Ramirez. But what about Patricia herself?
Speaker 4 What was her role in all of this? The prosecutor said she was legally responsible for the murder because she had set it in motion when she identified Gonzalo at the club.
Speaker 4 But Patricia told a very different story, that she was an innocent victim at the mercy of Guiani Van.
Speaker 5 I would go home to my mother's home on the weekends, and that's when he took the opportunity to drag me through that whole night and the chain of events that took place that night.
Speaker 4 Patricia told us that three weeks after the alleged rape, Guiani suddenly showed up at her door.
Speaker 5 He said, let's talk, let's let's just continue to see where we can go. I got in his car, and once I was in the car, he
Speaker 5 took matters into his own hands.
Speaker 4 Does he bring other men into the picture at this point?
Speaker 5 Yes.
Speaker 4 And does he tell you his intentions?
Speaker 5 Never. Never.
Speaker 4 She says she was too frightened to do anything but go along.
Speaker 5
I was traumatized by the rape. I was still depressed.
I was still weeping. I was still in distress.
And he took advantage of of that. And he took advantage of that state.
Speaker 4 Did they take you to the bar?
Speaker 4 Where you had met Gonzalo?
Speaker 5 I don't want to revisit
Speaker 5 details that
Speaker 5 my lawyer has advised me not to revisit in the interview.
Speaker 4
Patricia did fill in the blanks for investigators about the rest of that night. Guiani and the others, she said, drove her to the club.
They went inside and insisted she point out Gonzalo Ramirez.
Speaker 4 When he walked by, she told Gianni that was him. When they left the club, she watched as they rear-ended Gonzalo's truck.
Speaker 4 When he got out to check the damage, the men forced him into the white van and drove him to that transmission shop.
Speaker 4 Patricia said she waited at a nearby bar and then later that night, she was driven to the shop and led up a small staircase to a loft.
Speaker 4 Did you see him being beaten?
Speaker 5
Uh, no, no. I didn't see when they were actually beating him.
They made me witness the aftermath of the beating.
Speaker 4 So he was still alive when they brought you to see him?
Speaker 5 Yeah.
Speaker 4 And what kind of shape was he in at that point?
Speaker 4 Um,
Speaker 5 not in good shape.
Speaker 4 Did he know it was you? Did he remember you?
Speaker 5 I don't know if he did or didn't.
Speaker 5 I just
Speaker 5 at that point I
Speaker 5 just knew that they were doing all this to punish me.
Speaker 5 They were mad at him for what he did, but they also were punishing me.
Speaker 4 What were they punishing you for?
Speaker 5 For having allowed it to happen.
Speaker 5 For somehow not stopping it.
Speaker 4 Were you able to say anything to Gonzalo before he died?
Speaker 5 No.
Speaker 5 No.
Speaker 5 I was I was in shock and I screamed and I was uh I was just I was just in fear. I couldn't
Speaker 5 I couldn't possibly
Speaker 5 I
Speaker 5 was unable to.
Speaker 4 Patricia told us that was the last time she saw Gonzalo. His hands were tied with chains in the loft of that transmission shop, but she says she didn't find out he had been murdered until much later.
Speaker 5 What I can tell you is that I was dragged, pressured, bullied, intimidated into that night when they actually took Gonzalo Ramirez, kidnapped him, beat him up and ultimately killed him.
Speaker 5 I never saw him dead, but I was terrorized by the violence that
Speaker 5
I witnessed. I...
For me,
Speaker 5 these people were
Speaker 5 so foreign to me. They were just...
Speaker 5
I didn't know who they were. I just knew that they were dangerous and they were violent.
And that scared the living deadlights out of me. I feared for my own life.
Speaker 4 Did you tell Gianni you wanted to seek revenge on Gonzalo? Never. Did you convince him to go there that night to kill Gonzalo?
Speaker 5 Never.
Speaker 4 She says she too was a victim of Gianni Van that night.
Speaker 5 He destroyed the rest of my life.
Speaker 4 You know,
Speaker 5 the rape was difficult.
Speaker 5 But dragging me through that night haunts me.
Speaker 4 Do you wish now that you had have gone to the police?
Speaker 5 I wish that at some point this whole cycle had been stopped, either by an adult or by myself.
Speaker 5 But when you are traumatized, when you are raped, when you are terrorized, when you see what you saw, when these people are a mob, violent, I don't see how I could have possibly stopped it if it wasn't somebody coming forth and helping me.
Speaker 4 Patricia said she was still willing to testify in Guiani Van's trial, but as she said before, it had to be on her terms. She was not about to plead guilty to voluntary manslaughter.
Speaker 5 Perhaps it's 18 years later, but I don't think it's too late. I don't think it's too late to seek justice for him and to seek justice for myself.
Speaker 5 The only justice I can obtain is to not be wrongfully convicted and taken away from my daughter's life.
Speaker 4 Some might say it's quite the gamble to decide not to take a plea deal and you know as few as say three years when you could get life in prison. Why
Speaker 4 take that chance?
Speaker 5 I never wanted Gonzalo Ramirez to be harmed and I had to look deep within myself.
Speaker 5
I had to reflect on who I was, think about my conscience and what could I live with. And I can't live with the guilty plea.
I could face life in prison.
Speaker 5 I will be stripped from my daughter's life for the rest of her growing years.
Speaker 5 And that's a risk. But I'm trusting that the district attorney will know that we're both seeking the same goal, that we both want justice for the man who raped me and justice for myself.
Speaker 5 We are both unfortunate victims in a horrible series of events.
Speaker 4 A horrible series of events, to be sure. But Patricia Sparza, a victim? The prosecutor wasn't buying it.
Speaker 8 She was a very educated woman.
Speaker 4 Manipulative?
Speaker 11 In your eyes?
Speaker 8 Yes.
Speaker 6 Coming up.
Speaker 6 Another woman there that night with yet another revelation about Patricia.
Speaker 10 She's using other people to exact revenge.
Speaker 4 Some
Speaker 4 might describe Patricia as a mother, a PhD, a wife.
Speaker 8 You could still add to that list murderer.
Speaker 6 When dateline continues.
Speaker 4 As Patricia Esparza sat in an Orange County jail, there was another inmate who also faced charges in the murder of Gonzala Ramirez. Her name was Diane Tran.
Speaker 4 And what put her in jail was Patricia's statement to investigators. She said there were several people involved in the murder and one of them was Diane.
Speaker 5 From outside of the door, right outside, a male voice said, Should we kill him?
Speaker 5 I heard sort of a resounding yes from everybody.
Speaker 9 But the one who
Speaker 9 struck me
Speaker 5 in saying yes was Diana, only because I didn't expect
Speaker 9 her.
Speaker 4 Remember the transmission shop where Patricia saw Gonzalo in chains and police found his blood? Diane Tran owned that shop with her husband, Cody.
Speaker 4
Cody, too, was a suspect in the murder, but killed himself before police could charge him. That left Diane.
Her defense attorney was Robert Weinberg. How is she doing?
Speaker 24 She is under so much pressure. The loss of her freedom, to say it's a shock is an understatement.
Speaker 4 According to Diane's attorney, Cody was part of the group that killed Gonzalo, but Diane was only at the shop because he forced her to be there.
Speaker 24
Cody Tran was a very, very difficult character to live with. Very volatile, violent.
I would say that she was subject to his commands. Come to the shop, come with me.
We're going.
Speaker 4 In other words, Diane's story was much like Patricia's. She says she was an unwilling participant, a wife who went along out of fear.
Speaker 24 Diane had nothing to do with this at all.
Speaker 4 So when Patricia Esparza turned down her plea deal and refused to testify, a door opened for Diane Tran.
Speaker 36 You're willing to plead guilty to the new charge and the enhancement and receive a possible sentence of up to four years in prison?
Speaker 4 Diane made a deal with the prosecutor, pleading guilty to a reduced charge of voluntary manslaughter.
Speaker 4 In exchange, she agreed to testify in the case against Patricia, Patricia, and her testimony would be explosive.
Speaker 4 Diane said Patricia wasn't forced into anything, but instead took part in planning the murder.
Speaker 8
Guiani was talking about wanting to find this guy and retaliate. According to Diane Tran, those discussions about retaliation all began immediately.
Ms.
Speaker 8 Tran also indicated that there were conversations that took place where she was present, where Guiani
Speaker 8 talked about killing Gonzalo Ramirez,
Speaker 8
where Ms. Esparza was present, and that Ms.
Esparza knew that the plan was to kill Gonzalo.
Speaker 4 A claim, remember, that Patricia strongly denied in our interview. And does he tell you his intentions?
Speaker 5 Never. Never.
Speaker 4 Investigator Dean Fulcher believed that Patricia not only knew what Guiani was planning, she may have orchestrated it.
Speaker 10 When you start peeling back the layers, you find that there was an individual who I think is a very manipulative person who was kind of pulling the strings and all the time claiming to be the victim.
Speaker 10 Well she's using other people to exact revenge on the individual she feels raped her.
Speaker 4 But many people did see Patricia as a victim and a movement calling for her freedom was building. Supporters attended court hearings wearing t-shirts that read, set Patricia Free.
Speaker 35 We're here to stand in solidarity with her and as well with other sexual assault victims across the world.
Speaker 4 Many saw an accomplished woman who had overcome terrible trauma only to be victimized again by the legal system.
Speaker 35 There are two victims here and I hope that the DA finds in his heart to strengthen his case and really get justice for those who committed this crime and stop persecuting the other victim in the case.
Speaker 4 But that didn't seem to phase the prosecutor.
Speaker 8 I knew that she had hundreds, if if not thousands, of supporters who had never read a single police report, never listened to a single taped interview.
Speaker 8 She had them all convinced that she was being wrongfully accused and that somehow, if she was a victim of a sexual assault, that she couldn't therefore also be
Speaker 8 a defendant in a murder case.
Speaker 4
So much time had passed. She didn't actually commit the crime.
Why were you not willing to let it go?
Speaker 8 They left a man on the side of the the road like garbage. Why should the fact that she lived a free life for 20 years be in any way mitigating? To me, it's aggravating.
Speaker 23 She got her time.
Speaker 8 She got to live as if she had never been involved in this incident.
Speaker 4 Some might describe Patricia as
Speaker 4 a rape victim, a mother,
Speaker 4 a PhD.
Speaker 4 a wife,
Speaker 4 someone who has
Speaker 4 done good things for the world. How would you describe her?
Speaker 8 I think all of those might be accurate, and yet you could still add to that list murderer.
Speaker 4 A tough prosecutor poised for trial with one more move up his sleeve.
Speaker 8 It was another one of Miss Esparza's lies.
Speaker 6 Coming up.
Speaker 4 Did you tell Patricia I think we can win this?
Speaker 7 I did tell Patricia I thought we could win the case.
Speaker 6 18 years of secrets. One momentous decision.
Speaker 37 How do you plead guilty or not guilty?
Speaker 4 When seasoned defense attorney Jack Early met Patricia Sparza, the psychology professor charged with murder, she had turned down a plea deal and was no longer cooperating with the Orange County District Attorney's Office.
Speaker 4 Patricia flipped the crime on its head by calling herself the victim, that she had to witness this brutality. Do you think that's a fair assessment?
Speaker 7 I definitely think it's a fair assessment because I think that Patricia would be the first to say that she would never want anyone to think that this was done in her name.
Speaker 4 But that's exactly what prosecutor Mike Murray believed.
Speaker 4 In his mind, Patricia Sparza initiated the murder, helped plan it, then obstructed the investigation by marrying the prime suspect so she wouldn't have to testify against him.
Speaker 4
The prosecutor believed Patricia lied repeatedly for 20 years, right up to the time of her arrest in 2012. Remember, she told us she was on her way to the U.S.
for a conference.
Speaker 5 I was coming to the U.S. for professional travels.
Speaker 4 It turns out, says the prosecutor, she was really flying to Boston to meet a former boyfriend.
Speaker 8 A gentleman arrived at the airport, and
Speaker 8 that gentleman said that he was there to to pick Miss Esparza up and that she had agreed to come and stay with him in Connecticut for a week at his home.
Speaker 4 That's kind of an interesting turn of events.
Speaker 8 Interesting, not particularly significant to the murder investigation,
Speaker 8 just interesting that Miss Esparza continues to lie when it suits her needs.
Speaker 4 And there was yet another inconsistency that was relevant to the case. Patricia told us, you may recall, that Guiani Van forced her to marry him.
Speaker 5 I feared for my life.
Speaker 4 Photos of Patricia and Guiani showed a seemingly happy couple, and they were taken after the murder, after they had secretly married.
Speaker 4 And according to the prosecutor, it's possible the biggest lie of all was the reason for the murder in the first place, that Patricia had been raped.
Speaker 8 She claims that she told the nurse from the clinic at Pomona College that she was raped.
Speaker 4 But there is no record that she did. According to the medical records, Patricia was examined by both a doctor and a nurse that day.
Speaker 4
But the notes from the visit only said Patricia had unprotected sex and wanted a morning afterpill. No mention of a rape.
We contacted Pomona College about Patricia's visit to the clinic.
Speaker 4 They told us that given the two decades and personnel changes since Patricia was treated, they had no further information. What was your gut telling you about the rape?
Speaker 4 Did you believe that Patricia was really raped?
Speaker 8 Anybody who's sexually assaulted, it's a horrific experience. I can only imagine.
Speaker 8 I don't know. There just isn't enough evidence.
Speaker 23 It's inconclusive.
Speaker 4 Patricia and the prosecutor remained at odds, and he pushed ahead for her trial.
Speaker 4 The DA was playing hardball with her.
Speaker 7 He was playing hardball.
Speaker 4 Did you tell Patricia I think we can win this?
Speaker 7
I did tell Patricia I thought we could win the case, but I also told her I'm not the one who does the time. I was able to raise my children.
That's not a decision I have to make.
Speaker 4 Meanwhile, the date was set for Guiani Van, Patricia's former husband, to face a jury. Patricia was running out of time.
Speaker 4 Any possibility of a plea deal would have to come before Guiani's trial so she could testify for the prosecution. So she instructed her lawyer to see if a deal was still possible.
Speaker 4 The clock was ticking. Was it just tearing her up?
Speaker 7 She had a lot of traffic in her mind as to what that decision meant to a lot of people, including her husband, her family, groups that were supportive of her.
Speaker 7 So it was a very, very difficult decision.
Speaker 37 Do you have any questions about what you're doing here today?
Speaker 4 Patricia's decision came on the same day the trial for Guiani Van was set to begin.
Speaker 37 Did you have an opportunity to read this plea agreement?
Speaker 35 Yes, sir.
Speaker 8 Did you discuss it with your lawyer? Yes.
Speaker 37 Ma'am, as to a violation of Count 2, voluntary manslaughter of Gonzalo Dominguez-Ramirez, how do you plead guilty or not guilty? Guilty.
Speaker 4
Guilty of voluntary manslaughter. Patricia had backed down.
Her sentence under this new deal, six years in prison.
Speaker 4 According to the prosecutor, everything they had learned made the case against Patricia stronger. She turned down the initial three-year plea deal.
Speaker 4 She ended up getting six. Does she regret that decision at all?
Speaker 7 Well, of course she regrets it in that way. That was another discussion we had because you have to live with yourself.
Speaker 4 Did you feel like justice had been done?
Speaker 8 That's a hard question to answer. It's,
Speaker 8
did I feel like there was some closure with regard to Ms. Esparza? Sure.
Was it justice?
Speaker 8 No. It's the way
Speaker 8 in many cases you solve crimes. I don't think it was necessarily justice for Gonzalo Ramirez's brothers or his daughters,
Speaker 8 but it's what allows us to move forward with the rest of the case. It's what allows us to move forward with the trial against Guiani Van.
Speaker 4 Guiani Vann's long-delayed trial began in April 2015, 20 years to the day after Gonzalo's death.
Speaker 8 The evidence is going to show that the defendant acted as judge, jury, and executioner.
Speaker 4 The prosecutor said Guiani committed murder to avenge the alleged rape of Patricia. Not so, said defense attorney Jeremy Dolnick.
Speaker 38 Even though he was upset about the rape, he never had homicidal thoughts of revenge. He was the one that would provide the fights and not instigate them.
Speaker 38
Everyone knew him to be honest. They always knew him to be the good-natured kid.
What happened in April of 1995 was way beyond anything that Mr.
Speaker 38 Vann could have ever imagined or could have ever even possibly conjured up.
Speaker 4
Patricia testified for the prosecution. Guiani took the stand in his own defense.
He said the other people in the transmission shop that night were the true killers.
Speaker 4 After just one day of deliberation, the jury reached a verdict.
Speaker 31 With the jury in the above entitled action find the defendant Gianni Van guilty. of the crime of murder in the first degree.
Speaker 4 Guiani Vann was sentenced to life in prison without parole. The remaining co-defendant pleaded guilty in 2016.
Speaker 4 Patricia was released in 2018 after serving most of her six-year sentence.
Speaker 4 Gonzalo's brothers say they were disappointed she got a deal because it was her accusations, her story, that led to the murder.
Speaker 20
He's very smart and he's a criminal mind. She's a criminal mind.
She knows how to
Speaker 21 play with the people.
Speaker 20 Yeah.
Speaker 4 And so, after 20 years, the murder of Gonzalo Ramirez may be solved, but a big question remains. Who is the real Patricia Esparza?
Speaker 10 Throughout the investigation, I saw her as potentially a victim, but as it progressed and as time went on and I learned more, the only word that I can come up with was manipulative.
Speaker 10 I mean, she can manipulate people.
Speaker 4 But to those who support Patricia, she's a woman who beat tremendous odds, went from poverty to a PhD, and became a symbol for victims' rights. A role she now embraces.
Speaker 5 The reason I went into psychology was to try to heal people precisely from the kinds of traumas that I experienced.
Speaker 5 I think that it's enough to be terrorized, it's enough to be abused, it's enough to be traumatized by a rape.
Speaker 5 And I've tried to seek a meaningful life where I can actually change people's lives, and that has been my objective.
Speaker 5 I'm going to put this behind me. I need to put this nightmare behind me.
Speaker 6
That's all for this edition of Dateline. We'll see you again Sunday at 7 6 Central.
I'm Lester Holt. For all of us at NBC News, good night.
Speaker 3 Finding the music you love shouldn't be hard. That's why Pandora makes it easy to explore all your favorites and discover new artists and genres you'll love.
Speaker 3 Enjoy a personalized listening experience simply by selecting any song or album, and we'll make a station crafted just for you.
Speaker 7 Best of all, you can listen for free.
Speaker 3 Download Pandora on the Apple App Store or Google Play and start hearing the soundtrack to your life.