The Shadow

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Speaker 6 It was one of those moments where

Speaker 7 you just want to go back two minutes.

Speaker 9 Two minutes ago, he was laying beside me and he was alive.

Speaker 7 Now he's gone forever.

Speaker 12 Inside a sleeping house, an armed intruder hunts for prey.

Speaker 13 I heard Angie scream, oh my god, oh my god.

Speaker 13 I could see blood running down his neck.

Speaker 6 I nudged Justin and he didn't respond.

Speaker 14 Her fiancé had just been killed, but she's calm somehow.

Speaker 16 To me, very calm. I thought maybe there was a boyfriend on the side, some kind of love triangle.

Speaker 11 But on a dark highway, the case would take a dramatic turn.

Speaker 17 All the hair in my body was standing on edge.

Speaker 18 Made you nervous.

Speaker 17 Extremely nervous.

Speaker 11 A mysterious driver carrying ominous cargo.

Speaker 19 How did he explain that?

Speaker 20 At that time, you don't.

Speaker 21 It's evidence to suggest that there is some sort of conspiracy.

Speaker 11 Unraveling a mind-bending plot to reveal a shattering truth.

Speaker 13 Evil is the only word I can think of: inhuman, to do something like that.

Speaker 22 It was a moonless night in Iowa, four o'clock in the morning, the quietest of quiet hours.

Speaker 32 A small-town cop glided down the empty highway out of Des Moines, bound for the early shift at his rural police department.

Speaker 35 That's when he saw it.

Speaker 36 Corner of his eye.

Speaker 38 What was that in the ditch, maybe 30 yards off the highway?

Speaker 39 A car? In trouble?

Speaker 39 He swung around.

Speaker 40 Somebody clearly missed a curve on on the gravel access road.

Speaker 41 The driver's door hanging open on it. Looked like airbags deployed, dome light was on.

Speaker 40 And then suddenly, who was that?

Speaker 19 Knocking on his car window.

Speaker 41 Gentleman didn't have a shirt on.

Speaker 40 Seemed agitated, weird. Eventually, a second cop appeared.

Speaker 17 He's excited. He seemed like,

Speaker 17 you know, if you were to talk to somebody right after they got done running a marathon, just out of breath, sweating profusely. The entire time I'm out here, it's just a very, very,

Speaker 17 it's an uneasy feeling.

Speaker 17 My stomach was turning.

Speaker 40 But no law broken.

Speaker 42 He called the guy Cab, sent him home.

Speaker 43 No idea what was coming.

Speaker 39 How could they know?

Speaker 13 It makes you question the goodness of humanity. It makes you question your faith.
It makes you question

Speaker 45 your beliefs. It was a point where evil

Speaker 45 outdid good.

Speaker 39 Even here in the heart of the heartland, its lovely capital,

Speaker 48 its famous state fair, all manner of deep-fried delicacies and presidential casting calls here.

Speaker 50 Des Moines, a place known for its sweet and gentle nature, for people who are simply nice.

Speaker 52 Like him.

Speaker 13 He was he was just very good.

Speaker 53 His name was Justin Michael.

Speaker 54 These are his parents, Weldon and Marie.

Speaker 13 He cared about people. He was kind and considerate.

Speaker 14 Just a nice guy.

Speaker 13 Just a very nice guy.

Speaker 13 A very good person.

Speaker 47 Sort of person who volunteered for things, like helping to build houses for habitat for humanity.

Speaker 13 He really enjoyed it.

Speaker 50 Justin was almost 31.

Speaker 28 The eldest of three, his brother Nathan idolized him.

Speaker 58 All three of us stayed close. Just always grew up like playing sports and hanging out with Justin.

Speaker 6 He was just a great older brother, very supportive and caring and

Speaker 60 would give you the shirt off his back if you needed it.

Speaker 62 In fact, said Sister Sidney, Justin saved her life when as a teenager she was caught in a riptide at the beach.

Speaker 6 It was absolutely terrifying. I felt like I was literally drowning.

Speaker 6 And then all of a sudden there was Justin and he was pulling me up on our boogie board and telling me that everything was going to be okay, everything was going to be fine.

Speaker 29 So you get the idea.

Speaker 62 Just a good person, a nice guy who is about to get as lucky as a person can in life.

Speaker 33 That is lucky in love

Speaker 8 with her.

Speaker 6 I found him very attractive and interesting and

Speaker 6 he was fun to talk to.

Speaker 50 Her name is Angie Verhuel.

Speaker 24 And what happened to Angie and Justin was that thing that some people don't even think exists.

Speaker 49 They fell in love at first sight.

Speaker 40 Bingo, just like that.

Speaker 6 Then after our third date, I texted my friend and I said, I'm pretty sure I'm going to marry this guy.

Speaker 19 He seemed to feel the same way about you?

Speaker 39 Yep.

Speaker 22 It was...

Speaker 6 very easy. From day one, we both knew.

Speaker 25 So they did what people do.

Speaker 47 They tried out each other's interests, and Angie discovered the man she was in love with also loved things like skydiving, which of course he wanted her to do, too.

Speaker 15 Lured you out a time or two.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 19 He had you jumping out of an airplane?

Speaker 69 Yes, yes. What the heck were you thinking?

Speaker 70 Yeah.

Speaker 6 I am terrified of heights.

Speaker 8 So he took you up there.

Speaker 22 Yeah.

Speaker 6 It was so exhilarating, though. I was terrified up until the moment that we got in the plane, and then I just was calm.
And it was so much fun.

Speaker 61 Which was a little like their courtship, really.

Speaker 49 A jump that some people would find terrifying, but not them.

Speaker 8 You got engaged very quickly.

Speaker 6 When you know, you know.

Speaker 71 Was there ever any doubt?

Speaker 44 I mean,

Speaker 70 no day you woke up and thought, oh, God, what have I done?

Speaker 8 Nope.

Speaker 71 So, in August 2013, two months after they met, Angie and Justin were an engaged couple.

Speaker 36 In December, she moved in with him at his house in a tiny place called Grimes, about 20 minutes outside of Des Moines.

Speaker 74 And they planned their wedding,

Speaker 62 which would be, they decided, a family event on the beach in North Carolina, where his parents lived.

Speaker 64 They set the date, July 20th, 2014.

Speaker 37 It was May, excitement building, when Justin's parents came to visit in Grimes.

Speaker 45 A Mother's Day weekend.

Speaker 47 And on the Wednesday evening before that Mother's Day.

Speaker 13 We were laughing and talking about

Speaker 13 Halloween costumes for the next year.

Speaker 9 And

Speaker 13 as it grew dusk, we ended up cooking s'mores over their fire pit, which was one of Justin's favorite things to do.

Speaker 53 Justin's dad, Weldon, was on business in Minneapolis that night, so Marie stayed alone in Justin and Angie's guest room.

Speaker 27 As far as she knew, all was well.

Speaker 78 Across the hall, a couple in love, all good things on their way.

Speaker 66 Dark now.

Speaker 12 Moonless dark.

Speaker 66 She closed her eyes and slept.

Speaker 8 And then.

Speaker 13 So I heard the door opening, and my first thought was Angie was coming in to grab a scarf or a piece of jewelry from the dresser. You know, I knew she kept some things, spare things in the bedroom.

Speaker 13 The person just stood in the doorway.

Speaker 3 What did you see? Just a silhouette?

Speaker 13 I saw a dark silhouette, a person dressed in dark clothing. And I could see a red laser light shining in my eyes.
And then as I was laying there, I noticed the red light shine across the pillow.

Speaker 13 And I remember thinking, you know, that's a strange flashlight. And that's when I saw a much bigger person than either Justin or Angie.
So I knew this was an intruder. My heart sank.

Speaker 13 I'm sure I

Speaker 13 froze. And a second or two later the door was shutting.
And I remember praying,

Speaker 13 just please take what you want and just leave us alone.

Speaker 53 But of course, leaving them alone was not what the strange intrusive presence had in mind.

Speaker 74 Not even close.

Speaker 50 A night of terror, only just beginning.

Speaker 22 No one was prepared for what would happen only seconds later.

Speaker 13 I heard Angie scream.

Speaker 13 Oh my god, oh my god.

Speaker 66 Marie tells detectives a horrifying story, but they're not sure they believe it.

Speaker 16 To me, that was very odd.

Speaker 72 Hard to think about it now.

Speaker 61 That night in May 2014, when Marie Michael drifted off to sleep, things were so good, so full of possibilities for her eldest child and his fiancée.

Speaker 45 The save the date cards had gone out for the wedding.

Speaker 13 They were just perfect together.

Speaker 66 Then that terrifying pinprick of red light hit her eye in the dark, woke her up, and she saw him, it, whatever, shrinking away.

Speaker 56 away and the fear that took over her body, she froze.

Speaker 83 Maybe she prayed for those horrifying seconds.

Speaker 31 How many seconds?

Speaker 22 Three, five seconds?

Speaker 66 Across the hall, Angie.

Speaker 6 I heard the bedroom door open

Speaker 6 and I had been in such a hard sleep, I just assumed it was

Speaker 6 Justin leaving to go to the bathroom. Then I heard a pop, pop, pop.

Speaker 13 And it sounded very muffled, so I'm thinking that could not be a gunshot.

Speaker 38 And unaware that her world was quite different now, Angie opened her eyes.

Speaker 6 And I rolled over and

Speaker 6 saw somebody running out of the bedroom

Speaker 6 and

Speaker 6 I knew that was bad and I nudged Justin and I said, Justin, Justin.

Speaker 13 I heard Angie scream,

Speaker 13 oh my god, oh my god. I knew something terrible had happened.

Speaker 6 I turned on the light and I just ran out of the bedroom down the hall.

Speaker 3 Did you see him?

Speaker 6 I didn't.

Speaker 8 You just knew.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 13 I looked

Speaker 13 in the bedroom doorway and I saw Justin

Speaker 13 laying on his back on the right side of the bed with his head tilted and I could see

Speaker 13 a bullet hole in his head and I could see blood running his neck.

Speaker 6 My instinct was to figure out how they got in the house. You had a really big window.
I checked to see if that was closed, and it was. Checked the front door, that was still locked.

Speaker 6 Saw that the back door was unlocked. And I went and I opened it a little bit, and then I was like, That's not a good idea.
So I closed it.

Speaker 14 Did you understand right away that everything was different?

Speaker 43 That the man you loved was dead?

Speaker 43 It was

Speaker 6 It was one of those moments where

Speaker 7 you just want to go back two minutes.

Speaker 9 Because two minutes ago he was laying beside me and he was alive.

Speaker 69 Now he's gone forever.

Speaker 85 But in that moment, her brain, her fingers, wouldn't cooperate.

Speaker 6 What they say about about not being able to dial 911 in an emergency is very true. I had to try like three different times.

Speaker 86 Somebody just came in and shot my fiancé in the head.

Speaker 86 Ma'am, what's your name? Andy. Can you go over and check the status of...

Speaker 86 He's dead.

Speaker 86 Okay. I know he is.

Speaker 87 Marie called 911 too.

Speaker 88 Somebody came in and shot somebody.

Speaker 86 Do you know who was shot?

Speaker 88 My son, Justin Michael.

Speaker 51 a few minutes later deputies from the Polk County Sheriff's Office arrived and looked around the house as the two women sat in the living room in complete silence

Speaker 13 as we were sitting there across from the TV we noticed that a DVD player had been pulled out and there was a fluorescent yellow sweatshirt laying there which

Speaker 13 didn't belong didn't belong we pointed it out to the officer and it was neither one of ours was that what happened some awful mistake a robber hitting the wrong place?

Speaker 68 The wrong person?

Speaker 24 Deputies told them, get your things. We're taking you out of the house.

Speaker 6 I couldn't go back into the bedroom.

Speaker 7 I didn't have my glasses on.

Speaker 8 They were in there.

Speaker 10 So

Speaker 7 I said, I need my glasses.

Speaker 13 She asked me if I would grab her glasses from the nightstand. in their bedroom.

Speaker 13 So I did go back into their bedroom one more time.

Speaker 13 I looked at Justin and I

Speaker 13 told him goodbye and

Speaker 13 how much I loved him and

Speaker 13 how I couldn't imagine why that had happened to him.

Speaker 14 Is it even possible to understand what it does to you to look through the door and see your eldest son lying there with a bullet hole in his head?

Speaker 13 It was

Speaker 13 something in a hundred million years. You could not imagine who could have done that to my son, who

Speaker 13 wouldn't hurt a fly,

Speaker 13 had never spoken ill of anybody, or to my knowledge, had any enemies, or

Speaker 13 it just was unfathomable.

Speaker 63 The sheriff's deputies took Angie and Marie outside, put them in separate patrol cars, where they sat and watched the activity around them.

Speaker 83 quite stunned.

Speaker 92 Before they took her cell phone, Marie called her husband, Weldon.

Speaker 61 She begged him to hurry.

Speaker 45 I wondered when I heard the news whether they had gotten into the wrong house. I mean, it was so bizarre.

Speaker 24 Reality failed to gel in Weldon's head.

Speaker 45 On the drive from Minneapolis down, I mean,

Speaker 45 I couldn't believe it. I expected to see him there when I got there.
I thought it was a mistake. I asked if Justin was all right, and she said no, that he was gone.

Speaker 13 It was a feeling of isolation and I could see you know people in and out of the house. I could see detectives with flashlights combing the neighborhood and all around his house.
Crime scene.

Speaker 13 Crime scene. It was

Speaker 13 a very long three hours of my life just sitting there not knowing what was going on.

Speaker 6 News reporters are setting up everywhere and

Speaker 6 there's so many police cars and

Speaker 6 they weren't saying we got the guy. And

Speaker 6 I just felt they don't have him. They need to catch him.

Speaker 6 I know I'm safe, but is everybody else I love safe?

Speaker 36 Eventually, they drove both women separately to the sheriff's headquarters, where they installed them in separate rooms for separate interviews because something about this

Speaker 12 didn't smell right.

Speaker 16 There was just a lack of emotion, and to me that was very odd.

Speaker 48 Detectives become concerned about something else, too.

Speaker 14 Did it say anything to you?

Speaker 43 That these two women in the house, one of them lying right beside the victim, were unharmed?

Speaker 16 Yeah, it was suspicious.

Speaker 48 On the morning of May the 8th, 2014, local TV trucks roared off to a most unexpected place.

Speaker 87 Peaceful little Grimes, Iowa, population 9,000 was crawling with cops.

Speaker 24 Very unusual, said reporter Stephanie Moore of Des Moines NBC affiliate WHO-TV.

Speaker 93 It's the kind of place where they have the convenience store and everyone's there drinking coffee in the morning.

Speaker 8 What about crime?

Speaker 14 Much of it?

Speaker 93 No, no crime in Grimes. Neighbors live there, probably don't lock their doors.
It's just a quiet neighborhood.

Speaker 53 But sure enough, something big was going down, though just what?

Speaker 52 The deputies wouldn't say.

Speaker 93 When we talked to neighbors, they were surprised just to see even more than one police vehicle in the neighborhood.

Speaker 93 And then the DCI Division of Criminal Investigation van came, and that's hard to miss. It's huge.
People are coming out with little booties on and full suits going in and out of a house.

Speaker 93 There's crime tape up. And neighbors.

Speaker 93 and neighbors are starting to ask, what's going on here?

Speaker 12 Anxiety is like a virus.

Speaker 33 It spreads fast in crimes.

Speaker 93 Yeah, they were nervous. People don't just get shot in Grimes.
They knew Justin Michael and NG

Speaker 93 and couldn't imagine anything happening there.

Speaker 66 And if reporters and neighbors were mystified about what happened, so was Detective Robin Bartholomew.

Speaker 16 I was the on-call detective. I got called out at 3.30 in the morning.

Speaker 85 Who confronted a messy, bloody crime scene.

Speaker 49 A victim shot point-blank in the head.

Speaker 95 And here was his fiancée without a mark on her.

Speaker 76 Blood tends to spatter, but there wasn't a drop on Angie.

Speaker 8 I mean, how far apart were they?

Speaker 16 Right next to each other.

Speaker 15 Has that ever happened in your experience that you've encountered that before?

Speaker 16 Not that I've encountered.

Speaker 14 Did it say anything to you?

Speaker 42 That these two women in the house, one of them lying right beside the victim, were unharmed?

Speaker 16 Yeah, it was suspicious.

Speaker 25 Yes.

Speaker 50 And also, if the killer was intent on robbery, he certainly didn't succeed.

Speaker 61 That DVD player pulled out of its place in the living room, that was it, said Detective Tim Hopper.

Speaker 28 Nothing else was taken or disturbed.

Speaker 10 Well,

Speaker 96 it didn't make sense.

Speaker 48 Did it make sense as a burglary?

Speaker 8 I mean, as an attempted burglary, no.

Speaker 19 So if it wasn't an attempted burglary, why would somebody be messing around with this?

Speaker 96 Stage it. To try to throw people off track.

Speaker 31 Mind you, there was that sweatshirt that didn't belong in the house.

Speaker 61 Had the killer in his rush to escape left it behind?

Speaker 52 Well, officers tried to track that down.

Speaker 12 Angie and Marie were at the sheriff's office in separate interview rooms, answering a lot of pointed questions. Why not kill you, too?

Speaker 12 And I don't know if

Speaker 13 he looked in on Angie and Justin and Justin woke up and he sensed trouble. I don't know.

Speaker 16 I mean, why not tell Angie?

Speaker 33 And this was weird.

Speaker 25 Somehow, said Detective Bartholomew, their tone just didn't seem right, especially Angie's.

Speaker 16 I thought that, I guess, due to what had just happened, that she would be very emotionally upset. And

Speaker 16 to me, it was just like a regular interview.

Speaker 16 It did make sense.

Speaker 83 Like when she told Detective Hopper about the intruder who had just fired several bullets right through her fiancé lying right beside her, an intruder she saw just a few feet away.

Speaker 83 Describe this figure the best you can.

Speaker 6 It was all black. I'd say, probably,

Speaker 6 I'd say pretty tall. When you say black, you're talking black.

Speaker 96 Everything was black.

Speaker 96 Shadowly or a black person? I don't know.

Speaker 6 It was, just, I didn't see any color.

Speaker 39 Did that arouse any suspicion that maybe she was involved in this somehow?

Speaker 16 I thought so.

Speaker 75 So, Detective Bartholomew pulled Angie and Marie's 911 calls.

Speaker 75 He's dead.

Speaker 88 I know he is. Somebody came in and shot somebody.

Speaker 69 And?

Speaker 16 Same thing. I just really.

Speaker 42 Curiously devoid of emotion.

Speaker 13 Very much so.

Speaker 16 I think there was a panic, but

Speaker 16 listening to it,

Speaker 16 I just think that there was some distance there from the,

Speaker 16 you know, the caller to the victim.

Speaker 96 Everybody's still suspect in this because we have to find out why did someone isolate Justin and want him dead.

Speaker 96 And we didn't see a lot of emotion from

Speaker 96 the mother.

Speaker 8 or Angie.

Speaker 96 And so that was concerning, but ultimately you have to go where the leads take you to.

Speaker 27 So you do.

Speaker 49 But just then, the leads were going in circles nowhere.

Speaker 48 Investigators start digging into Justin's past, and their line of questioning triggers concerns for Angie.

Speaker 6 I was thinking, was I about to marry somebody that I had no idea who he was?

Speaker 35 When Justin Michael was shot to death while lying asleep in his very own bed, right beside his apparently loving fiancé, the cops adopted a handy rule.

Speaker 49 When in doubt, suspect all about,

Speaker 8 including even her.

Speaker 13 It didn't dawn on me that I could have been a suspect or Van G.

Speaker 13 But it didn't dawn on me a bit.

Speaker 14 You know, their minds do have to go to strange places when they're detectives.

Speaker 99 That's what they do. But...

Speaker 13 I understand that.

Speaker 49 But it was the calm demeanor, the apparent lack of emotion in Justin's fiancée, Angie Verhuel, that attracted the particular interest of the detectives, Bartholomew and Hopper.

Speaker 85 Though they pushed her a little, wondered aloud, not so idly, if Angie might have known the killer, or perished thought.

Speaker 100 even colluded with that shadowy person, whoever it might be.

Speaker 54 Like maybe a love interest.

Speaker 34 Someone in his or her past, more likely hers.

Speaker 96 Talked with Angie about Justin's relationships. He had no serious relationships prior to her.

Speaker 96 He did, had dated, but no one that seemed to

Speaker 96 cause a concern. So I went into Angie's relationships.

Speaker 34 Angie had been married before.

Speaker 53 divorced in 2010.

Speaker 42 And the ex-husband wasn't a concern as far as

Speaker 96 nothing. There was no children involved.
There was nothing other than a relationship that ended.

Speaker 101 But then, Angie revealed, she got involved with a guy named Andy, Andy Wagoner, moved in with him, lived with him for three years, and then, this was unusual, continued living with him even after their romance ended.

Speaker 49 Andy, or so she said, was well in her past when she met Justin.

Speaker 24 Hard to know what, if anything, to make of that.

Speaker 38 But then, Angie told the detective about some strange incidents, especially peculiar for Grimes, sort of thing that just doesn't happen here.

Speaker 29 It was one night back in November, she said.

Speaker 49 She parked a car on the street overnight in front of Justin's place.

Speaker 98 And when she emerged in the morning,

Speaker 6 I saw the back window had been hidden, and I was like, oh my gosh. And then I went around and I saw that two of the other windows had been hidden.

Speaker 54 She was shocked, she said.

Speaker 61 Went back to the house to tell Justin.

Speaker 46 They called the police.

Speaker 6 A police officer came and looked at it and noticed that it had been keyed, that it looked like somebody had thrown something at the windshield because there was a big dent on the hood.

Speaker 24 But that wasn't the only incident, said Angie.

Speaker 30 Somebody got into the backyard and vandalized Justin's prized fruit trees.

Speaker 6 There were branches that were snipped off and eventually killed the trees. Why would somebody come into his yard and

Speaker 6 ruin things that he had tried to grow?

Speaker 54 So, was the vandalism a warning?

Speaker 91 Did Justin actually understand that he was a target?

Speaker 29 Maybe Angie didn't know her fiancé quite as well as she thought she did.

Speaker 33 After all, execution-style murders, as the detectives knew very well, often turn out to have something to do with illegal drugs.

Speaker 96 Did you guys get high?

Speaker 96 Did you party a little bit?

Speaker 6 No.

Speaker 96 No drugs involvement whatsoever.

Speaker 96 Did Justin ever sell drugs?

Speaker 6 Not that I know of.

Speaker 57 But Detective Hopper felt it in his veins.

Speaker 47 Something about this didn't add up.

Speaker 96 This morning, Justin was singled out and murdered.

Speaker 96 You wasn't. I know.

Speaker 96 Marie wasn't. Justin was.
I know. Okay.
What do you mean, second Angie?

Speaker 96 There wasn't a brocury at your home.

Speaker 96 That takes away the randomness.

Speaker 6 Nothing was taken? I mean...

Speaker 103 As far as we're aware of right now.

Speaker 23 Okay.

Speaker 96 And somebody came in there for one sole purpose, and that was to execute him.

Speaker 96 So,

Speaker 96 someone was very personal. If for any reason you'd be protecting somebody that you care about,

Speaker 96 I need to know. Right.

Speaker 96 Because

Speaker 96 this is not acceptable.

Speaker 6 When they were

Speaker 6 doing their police thing and coming up with different scenarios, drugs and money, gambling, the question just kept being asked, is it possible? that these things could have happened.

Speaker 6 And of course, everything's a possibility. For a moment, I was thinking, Was I about to marry somebody that I had no idea who he was?

Speaker 73 Oh, but there were so many questions, one in particular, that Angie just couldn't seem to answer.

Speaker 22 Angie tells detectives about someone else from her past who once did something disturbing.

Speaker 6 That to me was kind of like

Speaker 69 that's a little creepy.

Speaker 72 But does it have anything to do with the case?

Speaker 50 Detective Robin Bartholomew was convinced of one thing in particular.

Speaker 28 Justin Michaels' fiancé, Angie, had to be the key to solving their murder case here in Grimes, Iowa.

Speaker 16 I maybe thought even though she was engaged, maybe there was a boyfriend on the side.

Speaker 99 Right.

Speaker 42 And if there's a boyfriend on the side, either the boyfriend wanted to get rid of the competition or she wanted to get rid of this one so she could be with the other one.

Speaker 16 Yeah, some kind of love triangle.

Speaker 84 It sounds devious to say such a thing, but these things actually do happen, right?

Speaker 16 Oh, very much so.

Speaker 52 Detective Bartholomew held her suspicions in check while her partner, Detective Hopper, continued to press Angie about the other men in her life.

Speaker 101 Very few of those, according to Angie.

Speaker 28 Her ex-husband and her ex-boyfriend, Andy.

Speaker 52 And then, three hours into the interview.

Speaker 96 All of a sudden, the name came up of someone that actually

Speaker 96 she had dated, an acquaintance that she had met, in between the breakup with Andy and her meeting Justin.

Speaker 6 It was not a full-on relationship.

Speaker 96 Did you just not remember him when we just met?

Speaker 6 I hadn't, I mean, I had thought about him, but it was kind of like it was like a couple of months of hanging out, and it was kind of like a here or there, and

Speaker 9 he, I feel like

Speaker 6 I felt like he wasn't being very serious, so I wasn't being very serious with it.

Speaker 101 And who was this other guy?

Speaker 6 His name is Dave.

Speaker 96 Okay. What does Dave?

Speaker 67 What is his last name now? I just forgot.

Speaker 6 It'll It'll come to me, I'm sure.

Speaker 99 Dave, Dave, Dave, Dave, Dave.

Speaker 6 God, I don't know why I can't think of it right now.

Speaker 28 Wait, she couldn't remember his last name?

Speaker 96 Which is very odd.

Speaker 96 When did you first start seeing Dave?

Speaker 6 The weekend after Andy and I broke up.

Speaker 6 And it was kind of just like a silly thing.

Speaker 96 Where'd you meet him at?

Speaker 6 Just at a bar. Okay.

Speaker 23 So I was like, all right, whatever.

Speaker 6 This guy's a funny guy.

Speaker 37 Angie told Detective Hopper she didn't spend much time with Dave.

Speaker 49 They mainly texted each other and met up at bars a few times.

Speaker 6 We had kind of had, I guess it was this day and age relationship where we only saw each other about once a week and the rest of our conversations were strictly through text messaging.

Speaker 6 I don't think we ever spoke on the phone. And it was always just

Speaker 16 very like

Speaker 6 playful in nature almost not like a serious type of relationship.

Speaker 96 But it was intimate.

Speaker 23 It eventually did get intimate, but not right away.

Speaker 6 And then

Speaker 6 it was kind of like a once-a-week thing. We would hang out on like Friday nights generally.

Speaker 50 And then, of course, everything changed.

Speaker 6 And then I met Justin.

Speaker 28 And she got the feeling Justin just might be the real thing.

Speaker 56 And so she started avoiding Dave.

Speaker 85 Did he send something?

Speaker 22 Maybe.

Speaker 95 That's when Dave sent Angie a text that referred to a reality television show.

Speaker 6 He had made the comment,

Speaker 6 I'm going to get your final red rose.

Speaker 6 And that to me was kind of like,

Speaker 69 that's a little creepy.

Speaker 6 Knowing I didn't feel that same way.

Speaker 40 Right.

Speaker 14 You hadn't given him any sign you felt that way.

Speaker 99 Right.

Speaker 6 We had never talked about being exclusive. I mean, when you're seeing somebody maybe once a week and talking through text messaging the other times caught me off guard a little bit.

Speaker 49 Then, just after her second date with Justin.

Speaker 6 That's when I told Dave, like, I've met this other guy. So, I had told Dave that I was going to have to cancel our plans Friday because of this.

Speaker 75 And as Angie said, when you know, you know.

Speaker 22 Remember?

Speaker 61 So, she asked her girlfriends, how should I break up with Dave?

Speaker 6 Like, is it appropriate to do this through text messaging? Should I meet up with him? And they were like, no, like, go ahead and do it through text messaging. You don't owe this guy anything.

Speaker 72 So she did.

Speaker 82 Diplomatically.

Speaker 37 She tried to be kind, she said.

Speaker 6 So I just texted him and I said, hey, I

Speaker 6 want to be completely upfront and honest with you. And I've met somebody else that I want to spend my time with.

Speaker 10 We're done.

Speaker 6 His response was, I knew you've been running around behind my back and we hadn't seen each other for at least two weeks at this point.

Speaker 39 It's hardly a relationship, right?

Speaker 72 He didn't take it so well.

Speaker 51 Unpleasant.

Speaker 6 Yes, I was trying to be kind. He was not.

Speaker 37 What did he say?

Speaker 6 He said some kind of nasty things about me as a person. And then at one point, he told me to eat and die.

Speaker 6 And then that was then followed by

Speaker 6 niceties and wanting to work things out. And so it was really back and forth all day.
And at one point, it became obvious that he wasn't going to let it go. So I just finally quit responding.

Speaker 8 You never heard from him again?

Speaker 6 Yeah, he had texted me the next day

Speaker 6 saying, I don't feel like this is over.

Speaker 6 Can you give me another chance? I didn't respond to that. So then after that, yes, I had not heard from him at all.

Speaker 71 That was in June 2013,

Speaker 24 11 months before Justin was shot to death.

Speaker 47 Angie told the detective all that.

Speaker 56 So odd, to say the least, that Angie swore she could not remember the guy's last name.

Speaker 96 You think about what his last name is yet?

Speaker 96 I keep trying to think of it.

Speaker 23 Dave, Dave, Dave, Dave, Dave.

Speaker 67 I do not know why I am drawing such a blank.

Speaker 25 Really? water.

Speaker 49 Detective Hopper turned up the heat

Speaker 96 about one of the first things I'd asked you at the very beginning was who, before Justin, who your relationship, and you said Andy, and you left Dave out.

Speaker 65 Okay.

Speaker 96 For whatever reason, and it doesn't matter at this point either.

Speaker 96 Is there any possibility that

Speaker 96 with Dave or anyone else that while you've been with Justin

Speaker 96 that you've maintained any relationship with anyone

Speaker 47 and then finally after more than 30 minutes of questions about this Dave guy it suddenly came to her she said I remember Dave's last name by the way

Speaker 96 and that is Moffat Moffat

Speaker 82 Moffat

Speaker 50 David Moffat

Speaker 30 A name that meant nothing at all another dead end most likely

Speaker 25 but remember that business about luck?

Speaker 57 Most useful investigative tool there is.

Speaker 72 New suspicions are raised as detectives realize two of the people in the case are connected by one remarkable coincidence.

Speaker 13 Company of 10,000 people here in Des Moines, what are the odds that they would be in the same

Speaker 70 cubicle they were.

Speaker 55 And then a roadside encounter goes from awe to downright unnerving.

Speaker 17 All the hair in my body was standing on edge.

Speaker 77 And that is Moffat.

Speaker 76 So finally, Angie remembered the name.

Speaker 53 The name of the man she dated just before she met Justin Michael.

Speaker 49 David Moffat.

Speaker 27 And who was he?

Speaker 32 Sometimes local accountant, for one thing, but also the scion of of a wealthy Iowa farm family.

Speaker 8 Not very memorable, said Angie.

Speaker 30 Just a guy who liked having fun.

Speaker 32 Though there was, she said, this one remarkable coincidence.

Speaker 55 A couple of months after she stopped seeing David and just before she got engaged to Justin, David got a job in the same small unit of the same department of the same Wells Fargo office building as Justin.

Speaker 81 David left under some kind of cloud, said Angie, months before the murder, but really, what were the chances?

Speaker 56 Their desks were just feet apart.

Speaker 96 And did he know that Justin was dating you?

Speaker 6 He figured out that Justin was dating me.

Speaker 76 Justin told his parents about it.

Speaker 45 He just said it was an awkward situation, but there was no problem. The alignment of that is astral.

Speaker 13 In a company of 10,000 people here in Des Moines, what are the odds that they would be in the same

Speaker 45 cubicle they were?

Speaker 28 But they got on fine, never any bad blood, and David Moffat had no criminal record.

Speaker 61 So should detectives add him to their list of suspects or what?

Speaker 96 At this point, I don't know if I have the complete story regarding Dave or not.

Speaker 31 Coincidences

Speaker 81 sometimes they come in clusters, don't they?

Speaker 49 Not long after Angie's memory coughed up the name Dave Moffat,

Speaker 26 there was another coincidence.

Speaker 96 We figured we needed to continue and focus on Dave and see where that leads us.

Speaker 96 The first thing that was done was a background makeup of Dave to include to see if he had a weapons permit.

Speaker 96 And so while that check for the weapons permit was being conducted, another office person heard the name and recognized Dave Moffat. And she immediately said he had a car impounded this morning.

Speaker 96 Not only was it impounded, it was impounded approximately within 30 minutes of the homicide,

Speaker 96 approximately 4 o'clock in the morning, and it was six miles approximate north of where the homicide occurred. And Dave Moffat resided approximately 28 miles southeast of where the homicide occurred.

Speaker 84 Wow, well that would be a red flag. That's

Speaker 96 through a further investigation we learned that he had actually had an accident.

Speaker 61 So they pulled the accident report and read about those two cops and their strange encounters just off Highway 141 starting at 4 o'clock that morning.

Speaker 49 Place which, by all rights, Corey Rose, cop number one, should never have been that particular morning.

Speaker 51 But life happens to everybody.

Speaker 48 And early on the 8th of May 2014, Officer Rose was adjusting.

Speaker 41 I was traveling back from the hospital in Des Moines. My fiancé's grandma was ill in the hospital.

Speaker 29 Still in his own clothes, not in uniform yet, he was on his way to a 5 a.m.

Speaker 32 patrol shift in the town of Boone.

Speaker 40 25 miles or so up the road, where Officer Rose is an investigator with the local police department.

Speaker 40 department and it was very dark on the highway no moon at all at that hour so he almost missed it there in the ditch maybe 30 yards off the pavement

Speaker 41 and what did you see uh as i was traveling up the road i saw a car would be off here to our to my right sitting on top of the dish just on the other side of this pole What, just over here where the grass is?

Speaker 41 Yep, sitting there with the driver's door hanging open on it. Looked like airbags deployed, dome light was on.

Speaker 89 It appeared the car was headed for the highway, but missed a sharp curve on the gravel access road.

Speaker 30 So Corey pulled up near as he could to the crashed car.

Speaker 41 Just as soon as I'd stopped and noticed that there was nobody in the car, nobody around the car,

Speaker 41 sitting in my vehicle.

Speaker 41 I saw a male approach my vehicle, knocked on the door, and he'd come from kind of off behind me to my left, knocked on my window, kind of startled me a little bit, you know.

Speaker 1 He He was

Speaker 41 asking if he'd get some assistance, get a ride, offered to pay me to give him a ride.

Speaker 41 And I told him that, quite frankly, I didn't feel comfortable with doing so.

Speaker 40 Between that and having to get to work and this not being his jurisdiction, Corey called his dispatch.

Speaker 41 Said, hey, I'm out with a vehicle in the dish. Could you contact the authorities in Polk County, see if we get somebody to come out here?

Speaker 41 And they said they'd have somebody out there as soon as possible. They're tied up on a shooting and grinds.

Speaker 89 So Corey left for his shift.

Speaker 40 And when Polk County Sheriff's Deputy Jason Tart responded to the call from Dispatch a little while later, all he knew was there had been an accident.

Speaker 95 So it hit that ditch at some speed then.

Speaker 17 Yeah, he was going pretty fast.

Speaker 64 Just missed the corner.

Speaker 17 Just unfamiliar with the area and driving too fast for gravel.

Speaker 40 But it was odd because once again the driver of that car, David Moffat, was nowhere to be seen.

Speaker 17 So I get out of the car and immediately I'm thinking, okay, maybe they were ejected. So I go and start searching the area to see make sure they weren't thrown out of the car.

Speaker 17 I was just getting ready to get back into my car and I hear somebody yell, I need help. I was like, well, is this your car? Yeah, that's my car.

Speaker 17 As soon as he gets close to me, he has this real, like a very sweet smell coming off of him. So I automatically, I was, okay, this is an OWI.

Speaker 19 Why would you say a sweet smell means it could be a drunken driving thing?

Speaker 17 Just the time of day, and there's a car accident involved. Single vehicle, I mean, it's just kind of goes with it.
Definitely smelled like he'd been drinking.

Speaker 48 Was he glad to see you?

Speaker 17 I don't know if he was glad to see me, but...

Speaker 48 I mean, you were potentially going to rescue him from a bad situation, you'd think.

Speaker 17 He saw somebody that might be able to help him, but I don't know if he was necessarily happy to see me.

Speaker 62 David Moffat told him he was on his way home from visiting his brother.

Speaker 77 Almost like a defensive demeanor.

Speaker 17 So I basically asked him, I was like, there's no way in chance maybe you visited a friend in Grimes tonight.

Speaker 97 No, why would you bring that up?

Speaker 17 There had just been, within an hour, a homicide had taken place in Grimes.

Speaker 17 The suspect was still

Speaker 17 unaccounted for.

Speaker 48 And you got a guy sweating and smelling sweet.

Speaker 17 Exactly.

Speaker 8 Hmm.

Speaker 48 What did he say?

Speaker 17 I don't even know where the town is.

Speaker 66 Everything about David Moffat made the deputy feel anxious.

Speaker 17 All the hair, not on my head, but all the hair on my body was standing on edge.

Speaker 56 That's weird.

Speaker 3 I mean, he's just a regular guy, right?

Speaker 48 Didn't seem to be armed or anything. You're a cop and you got your weapon, and you're still feeling nervous?

Speaker 17 I knew he wasn't armed because I did just a pat down for weapons before he's... Because if you're going to sit in my car, you're not going to have a weapon on you.

Speaker 48 But he still made you nervous.

Speaker 17 Extremely nervous.

Speaker 40 But turned out David hadn't been drinking. There was no reason to arrest him.
Still, the deputy's instincts kicked in.

Speaker 17 So I looked through his car and I couldn't find insurance, so I impounded it it for not having insurance with an accident.

Speaker 28 Not that it was drivable anyway.

Speaker 42 He sent David home in a cab.

Speaker 64 After reading Deputy Tart's report, Detectives Bartholomew and Hopper knew they had to act fast.

Speaker 31 There could be clues still on Highway 141

Speaker 72 and surprises too.

Speaker 41 One of those surprises, this crinkled receipt.

Speaker 48 See why it would raise more questions than it would answer

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Speaker 55 The media people Angie and Marie saw hovering around the patrol cars they'd been placed in that awful May morning had no idea.

Speaker 37 What had just happened in Justin Michael's bedroom, middle of the night.

Speaker 54 The reporters knew only this.

Speaker 61 They'd been sent here because because of a suspicious death and it was related somehow to this house.

Speaker 49 Then as they waited for somebody to tell them something,

Speaker 66 they got a tip.

Speaker 61 Local reporter Stephanie Moore.

Speaker 93 We heard that sheriff's deputies were walking the fields along Highway 141. So that would be the highway you would take from Des Moines to go to Grimes.

Speaker 93 And they were just walking these fields and we asked them, are you looking for a body? No. Are you looking for someone? No.
Are you looking for a weapon?

Speaker 93 We can't say, but the public's not in any danger. We think what happened in Grimes is related to this, and it's an isolated incident.

Speaker 43 And they're just walking up and down the field.

Speaker 93 Just walking the fields, you know, in a line so they don't miss anything. Kind of how they do if there's a missing child, but

Speaker 93 we thought maybe they were looking for a gun or a weapon.

Speaker 33 Good guess.

Speaker 64 In fact, that small army of cops was looking for anything that looked like evidence.

Speaker 47 Because hours earlier, David Moffat's car went off the road around here, and facts were piling up.

Speaker 49 Moffat had worked with Justin, dated Angie, and wrecked his car the morning of the murder, just six miles away.

Speaker 90 Of course, that piqued our interest very quickly. That moved David Moffat to the top of the list.

Speaker 85 Polk County prosecutors Steve Forretano and Brett Lucas have been involved all along.

Speaker 90 We sent the detectives and the patrol officers to that location, Highway 141, to see what else they could find in that area that might be of use or might be telling in terms of the investigation.

Speaker 48 That's why the locals saw all these police officers wandering up and down the field and as if they were looking for something.

Speaker 39 They were.

Speaker 77 They were.

Speaker 49 And imagine what they found there in the ditch along the highway.

Speaker 90 Probably the most important thing was they found loaded magazines. They had the same type of ammo that was found at the crime scene.

Speaker 90 The shell casings found at the crime scene matched that type of ammunition found in the ditch at Highway 141.

Speaker 19 Right there in the ditch near where the car crashed.

Speaker 90 It was actually across the highway and a little bit farther down, but within 500 yards of where the crash occurred.

Speaker 90 They also located in that ditch some paper targets that you would use for shooting target practice, some shooters' earmuffs, a

Speaker 90 camo neck cloth that you'd wear, you could wear as a mask.

Speaker 64 Like somebody preparing for an act of terror, for an execution.

Speaker 30 Clearly, David Moffat was their killer, had to be.

Speaker 25 And then,

Speaker 81 well, you know what they say about assumptions, those cops found something else near the accident scene.

Speaker 95 Sort of thing that could make a person wonder, what in heaven's name is going on here?

Speaker 72 It was one little thing in a shoebox.

Speaker 96 The shoes were not in it, but there was various paperwork.

Speaker 96 One of the things that were found was a receipt from a local car dealership, and the receipt was for a purchase of three oil changes, had the name of Andrew Wagoner.

Speaker 30 Andrew Wagoner, the boyfriend Angie lived with before Justin.

Speaker 66 Weird.

Speaker 25 Another guy without a criminal record, another apparently ordinary person.

Speaker 24 A Des Moines funeral director in his case.

Speaker 71 And yet, there it was in black and white, among all those other pieces of evidence.

Speaker 52 Andrew Wagoner.

Speaker 19 How did he explain that?

Speaker 20 At that time, you don't.

Speaker 62 So, did Andy Wagoner kill Justin Michael, the man who replaced him in Angie's heart?

Speaker 96 We immediately went to Andy's place of business and brought him back to headquarters for questioning. And we asked him about his relationship with Angie.

Speaker 76 And more to the point, perhaps.

Speaker 54 His relationship, or the lack of it, with Justin.

Speaker 96 Have you ever met Justin? Once. And where was that at?

Speaker 23 It was at um Joe's pub in Johnston.

Speaker 96 Just a random run-in or was it a big gathering?

Speaker 70 It was a gathering with kind of a group of friends. It was an

Speaker 70 engagement party.

Speaker 69 Was Justin

Speaker 96 the person who she was in a relationship after you broke up with her, or was there someone else?

Speaker 99 There might have been somebody else in between.

Speaker 23 I have to do it. You don't know.
No.

Speaker 96 The last time you talked to Angie would have been when.

Speaker 84 She sent a text message to me that said, happy birthday.

Speaker 70 I said, okay, thanks.

Speaker 99 And that was it. That was it.

Speaker 96 I'm asking Andy about

Speaker 96 whether or not he's missing anything. And he never tells me about the receipt for the oil changes.

Speaker 24 The receipt in the shoebox, the reason for suspicion, and all these questions.

Speaker 96 And I stay on the receipt because that's where my interest is at. And he believes that he's in possession of the receipt.

Speaker 100 And he said he thought the receipt was either in his car or in his house.

Speaker 96 If it turned up somewhere else,

Speaker 66 how would that happen?

Speaker 96 If it's somewhere other than your car or at home,

Speaker 96 any ideas how it could turn up in this investigation?

Speaker 96 No.

Speaker 33 Then Detective Hopper asked Dandy about guns.

Speaker 96 Do you go shooting at all? Shooting? Yeah, do you have any...

Speaker 96 I have a 12-gauge. you have a i haven't shot it in

Speaker 66 six years do you have any handguns okay and what he did the night before uh yesterday what time did you get off work uh yesterday i got off at oh four

Speaker 96 okay can you walk me through what you occurred from four o'clock yesterday until we showed up at your doorstep this morning and you were so thrilled to see us

Speaker 47 and he said he spent the evening and night with his current girlfriend so you spent the night up at your girlfriend oh yes How long has she been there?

Speaker 65 Three years, three nights.

Speaker 96 Oh, okay.

Speaker 96 Does they have good security there?

Speaker 99 No, I don't know. Is it in a safe area?

Speaker 70 Yeah. It's huggedly.
Yeah.

Speaker 96 Do you have gated to get in? No. Cameras coming in or going, anything like that? No.

Speaker 96 And he had spent the night with his current girlfriend at that time.

Speaker 96 And we verified that before he left the office, before he had a chance to make a phone call or anything else.

Speaker 48 At least according to this girlfriend.

Speaker 96 According to the girlfriend.

Speaker 8 Yeah. Yes.

Speaker 43 That would give him an alibi for the time.

Speaker 96 Yeah, we give him an alibi, whether that was preconceived or whether or not that was legitimate. We did not know.

Speaker 92 And he swore detectives would find no evidence against him in Grimes.

Speaker 16 When was the last time you were in Grimes?

Speaker 16 For any reason?

Speaker 96 There's a basketball court in

Speaker 96 the U is what they call it.

Speaker 96 That was a while ago. What's a while mean to you?

Speaker 65 Three weeks to a month, or three to four weeks at least. It's been a while.

Speaker 99 There's a bunch of guys that get together and we pay five bucks and are able to shoot around this place for a couple hours.

Speaker 96 Let me double-check, make sure we're good to go.

Speaker 57 The detectives exhausted their questions, took Andy back to work, apparently in the clear.

Speaker 46 Unaware that Andy's name was about to turn up one more time in a very suspicious place.

Speaker 24 Investigators have been looking for a single killer, but a fresh clue may send this investigation in a whole new direction.

Speaker 21 It's evidence to suggest that there is some sort of conspiracy involved here.

Speaker 6 Justin didn't deserve this. He always thought of everybody else.

Speaker 6 Always wanted to do for other people.

Speaker 66 As much in love as Angie said she was, the detectives had learned over the years, you never know, they needed to search her phone, see who she talked to in the hours and days just before Justin was shot to death.

Speaker 81 They also got a search warrant for David Moffat's house.

Speaker 25 But inside,

Speaker 87 no, they didn't find the murder weapon.

Speaker 50 But they did find these strange notes.

Speaker 94 Seemed to have been written by someone who'd been watching Justin and Angie's neighborhood.

Speaker 20 Those surveillance notes listed addresses in the immediate area around the crime scene. And they were very specific about when neighbors were turning on and off their lights.

Speaker 20 The creek behind the house is, is it wide enough where I can jump across that? Obviously, it looked like a way to make an escape once the murder was done.

Speaker 31 But then...

Speaker 30 They found what looked like the mother load.

Speaker 33 A bill of sale.

Speaker 20 It was in Andy Wagner's name. Yeah.
But there it is in David Moffat's house.

Speaker 32 That is, the bill of sale for a 9mm carbine and the name on the document, bold as brass, was indeed Andy Wagoner.

Speaker 36 How was that remotely possible?

Speaker 21 It's more evidence to suggest that there is some sort of conspiracy involved here.

Speaker 77 It's too early to really rule anybody out.

Speaker 90 We wanted to find out if Andy was the actual purchaser of that weapon. Fortunately, that bill of sale gave us the lead to where the weapon came from.

Speaker 54 His name was right here, Drew Ballman.

Speaker 53 And here he is.

Speaker 75 He's a small-town high school English teacher in a little place called Sigurney, 90 miles or so from Des Moines.

Speaker 48 There is something you can do with a degree in English.

Speaker 19 Yes, there is.

Speaker 8 Yes.

Speaker 104 And I love my job.

Speaker 47 An English teacher who likes to tell stories.

Speaker 22 And this one?

Speaker 19 Sort of thing that would make an interesting plot for a novel.

Speaker 104 For a novel, perhaps, yes.

Speaker 64 Drew is a self-described nerd.

Speaker 38 He also is a target shooter and a metal detector enthusiast.

Speaker 57 He's forever digging up old coins and such.

Speaker 66 Loves it.

Speaker 47 Mind you, there's only so much a person can ferret out using equipment that's, well, to say down market may sound cruel, but...

Speaker 104 The metal detector that I wanted was about $600.

Speaker 56 Are you out of your mind?

Speaker 40 No.

Speaker 19 You buy a $600 metal detector?

Speaker 104 That's even like the mid-range. You can spend upwards of $9,000 on a metal detector if you wanted to.

Speaker 44 You're getting toward being an uppercase nerd.

Speaker 104 Very much so.

Speaker 39 Yes.

Speaker 36 So he figured he'd sell the gun and use the cash to buy that new metal detector.

Speaker 104 It's what the state of Iowa calls a long gun. It's something that you put to your shoulder and you shoot like a rifle or a shotgun.
So I listed it online. On Arms List, it's like Craigslist for guns.

Speaker 104 What'd you ask for it? $360.

Speaker 57 About a month later, he got a nibble via email.

Speaker 104 I told him that I needed cash and I needed a photo ID, so I knew he was who he said he was and that he was at least 21.

Speaker 48 Who did he say he was?

Speaker 104 He said his name was Andy Wagoner. And that was the email address that he had contacted me from as Andy Wagoner something or other at gmail.com.

Speaker 39 Where'd you meet?

Speaker 104 I work part-time at a gas station. It's public.
There are cameras in the area.

Speaker 104 And if something bad were to happen, I know of at least two or three people that are there a lot that would probably come to my rescue.

Speaker 39 Is that the kind of thing you have to do when you sell a weapon?

Speaker 104 That's the thing I do when I sell a weapon because I've got entirely too much to lose. I have a family, I have a job that, you know, I love them both.
I did not want to jeopardize those.

Speaker 104 We met at the station. I showed him the rifle in the back end of my car and then I filled out a bill of sale because I wanted to make sure that this was trackable.
I kept a copy, he kept a copy.

Speaker 104 We reviewed everything to make sure that it was what he wanted and made sure everything was up to snuff.

Speaker 48 You saw his photo ID?

Speaker 104 I saw his photo ID.

Speaker 43 And how carefully did you

Speaker 14 store the information?

Speaker 104 I'm kind of a pack rat by nature. It's

Speaker 104 my teacher nature. You don't throw anything away.
So all of the email conversations that he and I had, I kept. All the text messages between he and I, I kept.

Speaker 104 I still had pictures that I had originally posted on ARMS list. Those were still on my home computer.
And as he was leaving, again, to cover myself, I wrote down his license plate number.

Speaker 43 You are a careful guy. I am.

Speaker 19 Was he a nice fella?

Speaker 104 For the very limited interaction we had, yeah, he seemed very nice, very normal.

Speaker 104 He asked me how to load it. I showed him how.

Speaker 15 And that was it.

Speaker 44 Off he went. Off he went.

Speaker 24 And then a few days later, the school secretary gave Drew a message.

Speaker 48 A Polk County detective wanted to talk to him right away.

Speaker 104 And my very first thought was, as I interpreted the law wrong when I had looked up the Iowa codes and I'm going to jail.

Speaker 19 You immediately thought about selling that weapon.

Speaker 104 That's the first thing that came to mind. Why else would a Polk County detective

Speaker 104 be calling me? I was going to jail.

Speaker 15 Scary, you thought.

Speaker 104 It was very scary because I had taken so many precautions. I called the detective and he said, Drew, did you sell a firearm recently?

Speaker 104 And that was my second thought. Yes, I am going to jail.
I have completely screwed everything up. And I told him, be forthright, be honest.
I said, yes, I did. He asked me to describe what it was.

Speaker 104 I told him it was a 9mm carbine.

Speaker 104 He said, Drew, we have reason to believe that that weapon was used in the commission of a crime. And my heart just sank.
What happened? I have no idea.

Speaker 104 And he told me it was used in a murder and I about dropped my phone.

Speaker 104 That's what that does to you.

Speaker 104 I unwittingly

Speaker 104 took part with an accessory in somebody's death. I felt terrible about that.

Speaker 77 You felt that way, that you were an accessory?

Speaker 39 How would you feel? I mean,

Speaker 104 I sold something to a man, to a person who later used that to take somebody's life.

Speaker 65 Yeah.

Speaker 70 Terrible.

Speaker 39 Oh, God.

Speaker 104 And still today,

Speaker 104 I've rationalized it. I've gone to a counselor about it.
I still feel bad about it.

Speaker 14 What's the expression? Guns don't kill people.

Speaker 39 People kill people.

Speaker 104 And I still believe that, but I provided him that method.

Speaker 22 Later that day, Detective Hopper drove out to meet with Drew, who turned over all the emails and text messages.

Speaker 47 He'd saved them all, as well as photos of the rifle.

Speaker 73 Three ammo magazines, a scope, and a red laser pointer attached to the weapon.

Speaker 100 Part of the deal.

Speaker 96 And I asked him if he had any shell casings from the weapon that he sold.

Speaker 96 He went and left and came back shortly after and had 63 casings.

Speaker 8 Wow.

Speaker 48 He's a person who likes to keep things.

Speaker 39 Yes.

Speaker 96 Most of those casings were tulamo, 9mm.

Speaker 15 The same ones that were found in the murder scene.

Speaker 96 And at the crash site.

Speaker 25 But who bought the carbine?

Speaker 96 We still don't know where we're at with David versus Andy.

Speaker 51 So, could Drew ID ID the guy in a photo lineup?

Speaker 56 Detectives showed Drew pictures of David and Andy.

Speaker 96 He said that's very odd. He said, This is strange.

Speaker 51 Then, could the killer's true identity finally be revealed in this most unlikely place?

Speaker 20 The red tub ended up being a gold mine of evidence.

Speaker 45 I really thought it was a random home invasion.

Speaker 99 So, during the course of that day, you were completely buffaloed.

Speaker 8 Correct.

Speaker 63 Well, the investigation raced forward.

Speaker 62 The Polk County Sheriff's Office told Justin Michaels' family virtually nothing.

Speaker 80 Didn't tell them they found the man who sold the murder weapon, nor that they had to figure out who he actually sold it to.

Speaker 46 Because surely whoever bought the gun must have been the killer.

Speaker 96 I asked him at that point to look at the photo lineups.

Speaker 96 The first set of six photographs I showed him contained the photograph of David Moffat. Mr.
Bowman looked at it and he said I can't be 100% certain. He said the guy had a hat on, had sunglasses on.

Speaker 96 He goes, I wish I would have had him take it off. And then he pointed at the picture of David Moffat and said, I'm 90% sure that's the person that I sold the gun to.

Speaker 19 What happened when he looked at the picture involving Andy Wagener?

Speaker 96 When I showed him the photo lineup with Andy Wagner,

Speaker 96 he looked at it and he immediately looked at it and pointed to Andy Wagner and said, that's very odd. He said, this is strange.
He was confused. He goes, that looks like the ID.

Speaker 96 That looks like the person I sold the gun to. He picked out both of them.
So we still have our questions.

Speaker 35 It was all very confusing.

Speaker 49 Didn't help that David Moffat and Andy Wagoner looked similar.

Speaker 50 So one last thing to try.

Speaker 62 Earlier, when deputies searched David Moffat's house, they found the bill of sale for that carbine.

Speaker 49 But they also discovered a receipt for lemonade in a candy bar, bought at a Dollar General store in the very town where the rifle was purchased.

Speaker 96 So, I requested video from that store. Person walks into the store, still wearing the hat, but the sunglasses are hanging off of his shirt.
And the video depicts David Moffat. Well, well, well.

Speaker 96 And he purchases a lemonade in a candy bar.

Speaker 54 Which may have settled the question of who picked up the murder weapon.

Speaker 25 But here was another question.

Speaker 49 How did David Moffat get hold of Andy Wegener's ID?

Speaker 37 The detectives had all kinds of reasons for wanting to talk to David Moffat.

Speaker 29 They picked him up about 15 hours after the shooting, took him to headquarters, installed him in an interview room, and no dice.

Speaker 13 He requested a lawyer.

Speaker 15 And just like that, you're done.

Speaker 96 I sat there for a prospecting hour with him, offering him a phone book, a means to reach his attorney, because we still wanted to attempt to talk with him, even if his attorney was present.

Speaker 96 He never reached an attorney.

Speaker 49 David Moffat wouldn't talk, but it hardly mattered.

Speaker 62 The evidence they already had was enough to arrest him and charge him with first-degree murder.

Speaker 30 By now, detectives understood that Angie had nothing to do with the murder, that what seemed like a lack of emotion in Angie's demeanor, and Marie's too for that matter, was shock, pure shock.

Speaker 46 In fact, the thought that David could be the man who killed the love of her life hit Angie while she was still being questioned.

Speaker 31 And finally, after her apparent calm, she was overcome.

Speaker 6 When Dave came up,

Speaker 6 we talked about that, and the detective came back with a picture of him.

Speaker 6 Do you know this person?

Speaker 90 That's Dave.

Speaker 6 And I said that's him and I immediately started shaking and was very visibly upset. I'm just afraid that he has something to do with it and what if I frost all this?

Speaker 6 And the detective was like, what's...

Speaker 6 what's going on? And I said, if he's the one who did it, then it's...

Speaker 6 It's all my fault.

Speaker 39 What do you mean by that?

Speaker 6 Because I was the one who had broken off the relationship. I was the one who ignored him the next day.

Speaker 14 You really think if you hadn't ignored him, he'd suddenly become Mr. Sweetness alive?

Speaker 70 Well, no, but I just felt like it was

Speaker 6 I brought this monster

Speaker 39 into Justin's life.

Speaker 49 But the prosecutors needed more evidence if they wanted to prove that David Moffat was the man Angie saw as a monster.

Speaker 91 How, for example, did David get an ID with Andy Wagoner's name on it unless Andy was somehow involved?

Speaker 20 One of the discoveries during that first search warrant was a computer box for a laptop.

Speaker 20 And that laptop was never found during that first search warrant.

Speaker 54 So the prosecutors wrote a second search warrant.

Speaker 32 And voila, they found it, but maybe too late.

Speaker 20 They discovered it in the bottom of a red tub that had a few inches of water in the bottom of it.

Speaker 8 And you know how computers hate water.

Speaker 25 But the waterlogged laptop wasn't all they found.

Speaker 20 The red tub ended up being a gold mine of evidence. Like what? They found ammunition that ended up being consistent with the ammunition found at the crime scene.

Speaker 79 And remember that shoebox they found near the car crash?

Speaker 54 It was a Nevados brand shoebox.

Speaker 87 And in David Moffat's red tub?

Speaker 75 What do you know?

Speaker 20 In that red tub were those Nevada shoes, size 11.

Speaker 19 It's almost like he was laying the trap for himself.

Speaker 39 Absolutely.

Speaker 8 They sent the wet laptop off to the computer lab, hoping maybe that text could find something on it.

Speaker 64 And surprise, surprise, they did.

Speaker 20 And off of that computer, we were able to find the work that David Moffat had done to create a fake ID in Annie Wegner's name.

Speaker 54 That's the one David presented to the school teacher Drew Ballman.

Speaker 52 He also created a fake Andy Wegener email address and stole that oil service receipt from Andy's car.

Speaker 35 All of which made it obvious, said the prosecutors.

Speaker 29 David Moffat planned to get away with murder by framing a perfectly innocent man, Andy Wegener.

Speaker 90 What kind of a mind is behind that sort of behavior, I was very cold, very calculating, tremendous amount of planning and premeditation that went into this murder.

Speaker 90 And he tried to execute it so that he would not be blamed, that he would get away with it.

Speaker 56 And remember that sweatshirt left behind after the shooting? As if the killer had been sloppy?

Speaker 20 In the sweatshirt was a boat registration that we could not figure out why it was there and what its meaning was at the time.

Speaker 20 Ultimately, several months later, we learned that that boat registration belonged to the father of the registered sex offender that lived within a few blocks of the crime scene.

Speaker 20 So it appeared to us, once we made that connection, that that was just another attempt to cast the blame for this on somebody else.

Speaker 61 So, convicting David Moffat of first-degree murder would surely be about as easy a task as a prosecutor could ask for.

Speaker 80 Or maybe not.

Speaker 51 The trial begins, and everyone will learn new details about the night of the murder.

Speaker 13 It's just

Speaker 13 unfathomable, like the Twilight Zone.

Speaker 8 Revelations no one will believe.

Speaker 90 That's pretty crazy, isn't it?

Speaker 107 Some stories never make national headlines, but stories from small towns and coastal communities deserve recognition too.

Speaker 107 I'm Kylie Lowe, host of Dark Down East, a true crime podcast that gives voice to victims through investigative journalism and powerful storytelling.

Speaker 107 Set in my home state of Maine and the greater New England area, it's my goal to dig through the archives to bring the stories of the people at the heart of these cases to light.

Speaker 107 Listen to Dark Down East, wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 108 It's called I Need You Guys.

Speaker 109 Should I give my baby fresh vegetables?

Speaker 106 Can I drink the water at the hospital?

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Speaker 93 Trials are really interesting because you get to really hear the whole picture. Several detectives, as well as law enforcement officials, finally said TV reporter Stephanie Moore.

Speaker 62 After months of secrecy, they gathered in June 2015 at the Polk County Courthouse in Des Moines for the trial.

Speaker 66 And the prosecutors revealed all those wild details behind the murder of Justin Michael.

Speaker 49 First time the public heard any of it.

Speaker 81 First time Justin's family and fiancée finally understood what happened.

Speaker 70 The

Speaker 13 detectives and the prosecutors had shared no information with us other than the fact of who they arrested.

Speaker 47 And the little they learned during the pre-trial hearings could be confusing and painful.

Speaker 6 As things started to come out a little bit, I texted Andy and I said, How did he get your ID?

Speaker 6 And he was like,

Speaker 6 I don't know. And I just had that feeling of, what if Andy had something to do with this?

Speaker 54 But prosecutors have good reason for keeping the details of their cases from the public and even from the family.

Speaker 90 We don't want the

Speaker 90 publicity of the evidence to taint the jury panel.

Speaker 30 But now, as the trial began, they were quite confident they had all the evidence they needed, even without the still-missing murder weapon.

Speaker 15 What happened to it?

Speaker 84 I mean, he, you know, he crashed the car apparently right away.

Speaker 12 He either got rid of it before then or...

Speaker 20 Our theory at least is that

Speaker 20 sometime between him getting home after the murder before officers were back out there doing that extensive search and being arrested that evening he was able to get back and retrieve the weapon and throw it into Sailorville Lake.

Speaker 15 And then once it's in the lake, there's no way you're going to find it.

Speaker 8 Now that a lot of work.

Speaker 85 But with all the other evidence collected, prosecutors felt they had enough.

Speaker 20 With the physical evidence that we were able to get, specifically from Drew Ballman and at the homicide scene and at David Moffat's house, from a ballistics perspective, we were able to connect all of those dots.

Speaker 94 The state showed the jury bullet casings and ammunition magazines, targets for practice shooting, David's reconnaissance notes, a Kindle containing a map of Justin's neighborhood, a can of pepper spray, even a flashlight that for all of David Moffat's careful planning ultimately betrayed him.

Speaker 62 It was something that caught the attention of Justin's sister Sidney and brother Nathan.

Speaker 58 There were two times that he reacted significantly in the whole trial, and one was they found a fingerprint on the battery in the flashlight, and so he wore gloves when he was carrying the flashlight, but not when he was putting the batteries in the flashlight.

Speaker 58 And when they said that, he goes,

Speaker 24 As if David just then understood his error.

Speaker 54 It was at the trial, said Justin's mom, that she finally learned what that red light in her eyes was.

Speaker 81 It was not some kind of strange flashlight, as she thought.

Speaker 24 It was a red laser pointer, most likely attached to the murder weapon.

Speaker 13 Pointed at my face. That's a very sobering thought.

Speaker 13 That's

Speaker 13 sitting at the trial

Speaker 13 brought back a lot of trauma issues

Speaker 13 and that being one of them. And the other thing that really bothered me was finding out

Speaker 13 that this guy had the gun

Speaker 13 six inches from Justin's face when he shot him four times.

Speaker 45 Because we had thought, you know, he was in the hallway at the doorway, and somehow it makes it even more invasive, you know, that he's that close and

Speaker 45 just

Speaker 67 somebody.

Speaker 13 And you actually look look at somebody's face and make that choice to

Speaker 9 kill them.

Speaker 13 To me, that's just beyond troubling.

Speaker 13 It's just

Speaker 13 unfathomable still.

Speaker 13 Like the Twilight Zone.

Speaker 25 The prosecutors saved David Moffat's computer searches for last.

Speaker 33 And then the jury and everybody else heard what David looked up on his laptop in the days before the murder.

Speaker 49 A window into the mind of a killer.

Speaker 51 The only murdering murder guide you'll ever need.

Speaker 34 Seriously.

Speaker 31 Convicted crimes of passion in Polk County. Traffic cameras in Grimes.

Speaker 8 What does hell look like?

Speaker 99 And so on and so on.

Speaker 15 Interesting that he would ask what hell looks like.

Speaker 90 There was some reference to the confessional times.

Speaker 89 That is, times when some local priest would be available, a priest whose oath would swear him to secrecy.

Speaker 90 He obviously was concerned about what was going to happen to him had he commit this murder.

Speaker 6 That day that all of the computer stuff came out was a particularly brutal day in court for me. It was

Speaker 6 hard for me to handle. I had to leave and

Speaker 6 decided I couldn't go back in the afternoon because it was just, it was overwhelming.

Speaker 19 You say it was too hard to hear.

Speaker 43 You couldn't actually go back, but what made it so hard?

Speaker 6 Just

Speaker 6 seeing my name, seeing Justin's name, you know, he had Googled my name or looked at my Facebook page or whatever for months.

Speaker 6 seeing the

Speaker 6 locations from where he was to our house and just knowing that he was that close.

Speaker 39 And here you were, totally oblivious, living through the happiest stage of your life.

Speaker 37 In his closing, prosecutor Steve Forretano told the jury what must have happened.

Speaker 90 David Moffat, I think, was obviously fixated on Angie Verheule.

Speaker 90 that she broke off with him, which caused him some pain and hurt.

Speaker 90 And then that wound was probably reopened when he started started working with Justin and Justin wound up getting engaged.

Speaker 90 And David obviously would be concerned about the fact that it was Justin that was with Angie and that he couldn't be with her because of him.

Speaker 4 So he gradually formed a plan that somehow he was going to get rid of Justin, possibly even get Angie back again.

Speaker 15 I realize that there is a very high bar to cross to be considered insane by the legal system.

Speaker 90 But that's pretty crazy, isn't it?

Speaker 90 Well, he had a goal, and he worked to achieve that goal. So he's trying to commit this murder, trying to plan and make sure that he got away with it.

Speaker 25 Maybe.

Speaker 49 And maybe something else was going on. Maybe David Moffat could blame somebody or something else.

Speaker 98 And sure enough, he did.

Speaker 48 With a legal defense that could defeat the best evidence in the world.

Speaker 49 David Moffat had no intention of going to prison.

Speaker 51 Moffat's lawyers call a controversial witness to make their surprising case.

Speaker 8 And then the verdict.

Speaker 93 Almost gave you chills up your spine.

Speaker 94 Rarely is a prosecution so replete with evidence of a killer's motives and awful deeds.

Speaker 49 Rarely does that evidence so clearly portray such planning, such deviousness.

Speaker 48 A man who knew exactly what he was doing when he murdered Justin Michael, said the prosecution.

Speaker 25 And then

Speaker 83 it was time for the defense.

Speaker 13 That was the worst day of the trial.

Speaker 40 He isn't gentlemen of jury.

Speaker 34 Defense attorney Keith Rigg did not dispute the wealth of evidence the state presented. All true, said Mr.

Speaker 12 Rigg.

Speaker 98 David Moffat did kill Justin, said the defense, because he was legally insane and therefore not guilty.

Speaker 40 What the facts are in this case are really in dispute.

Speaker 39 The fact that this happens

Speaker 40 because of a mental disease

Speaker 15 isn't really a dispute.

Speaker 104 Because this makes no sense otherwise.

Speaker 39 What happens here, for lack of a better term, is crazy.

Speaker 73 And why should the jury believe that?

Speaker 61 This was a defensive star witness, Dr.

Speaker 54 Peter Bregan, a famous, if controversial, psychiatrist with a resume of television and other appearances, in which he has condemned the use of psychotropic drugs.

Speaker 52 Dr.

Speaker 75 Bregan testified that David had been taking antidepressants on and off for years, and that what David did was was the drug's fault.

Speaker 40 So I think the whole thing evolves out of a progressive

Speaker 97 hammering of his brain by the drugs.

Speaker 72 It was drug-induced violence, the doctor told the jury.

Speaker 44 Drug-induced murder.

Speaker 52 Back in the courtroom, Angie listened to this and upset would not be quite the right word.

Speaker 6 It was

Speaker 10 laughable.

Speaker 6 almost

Speaker 6 and just that you can

Speaker 6 how much money they had to spend to find this guy who's going to say exactly what the defense wants

Speaker 39 him to say.

Speaker 43 Were you afraid the jury would buy it?

Speaker 6 Of course you're always a little afraid because

Speaker 6 it's scary to think that he could potentially get off with an insanity plea and

Speaker 6 The more he talked, the more it was

Speaker 6 It was frustrating to sit there and listen to him.

Speaker 97 He walked into somebody's bedroom with an assault record.

Speaker 65 Yes.

Speaker 40 That's horrible. He told you he thought about whether it was right or wrong, right?

Speaker 97 No, he told me in the beginning he thought about whether it was right or wrong. And then it didn't enter his mind anymore.

Speaker 97 It was like he was in a video game or like in an activity that was outside of the normal reality.

Speaker 36 He even thought about killing somebody else.

Speaker 97 So toward the end, I mean, he's just become

Speaker 97 the vict, I believe, the victim of this manic episode driven by the drugs.

Speaker 95 It's just not him.

Speaker 53 It's the jury that gets to make the decision, right?

Speaker 90 Of course you. You never know quite what a jury is going to do.
It's always an anxious moment when you're trying to wait for them to return a verdict.

Speaker 66 Oh, but it wasn't a moment.

Speaker 78 Hour after hour, they waited.

Speaker 102 And then, almost seven hours later.

Speaker 93 Judge asks,

Speaker 93 do we have a verdict? The jury says they do.

Speaker 40 We find the defendant guilty of murder in the first degree.

Speaker 49 If David Moffat felt anything in that moment, he didn't show it.

Speaker 93 Nothing. Stone-cold reaction.
Almost gave you chills up your spine.

Speaker 8 The insanity defense clearly did not work.

Speaker 20 The threshold that you have to reach for an insanity defense is that you don't understand the nature and consequences of your actions or you don't understand the difference between right and wrong.

Speaker 20 That's an incredibly high threshold.

Speaker 20 You look at the degree of premeditation, the degree of planning that went into that. Those are not the actions of an insane person.

Speaker 13 It does nothing to bring Justin back.

Speaker 45 But it would have been horrific if he had not been found guilty. So it did help.

Speaker 13 And can you imagine if that person was still free in our society? Who knows who he would have attacked next? And he would have.

Speaker 45 I think he would have.

Speaker 13 I think he enjoyed

Speaker 8 the planning and

Speaker 13 seeing if he could accomplish his task.

Speaker 90 The verdicts are always hard, I think, because nobody ever wins in this situation. His family is obviously

Speaker 90 still in pain.

Speaker 90 The Moffitt family is obviously in pain as well. So there really is no winner here.
We want to hold him responsible for what he did, and the jury's verdicts did that.

Speaker 89 Would they have caught him without those lucky breaks?

Speaker 85 Had David Moffat not lost control of his car on that gravel road?

Speaker 46 Had the cop not spotted the wreck off in the dark?

Speaker 48 If you hadn't stopped, if you just went on your merry way, my involvement was as just the

Speaker 41 citizen driving up the road stopping to check check on somebody that morning, you know.

Speaker 8 Had the deputy's instinct not pushed him to seize David's car, he probably would have been caught eventually.

Speaker 8 But what do you think about this now when you look back on it?

Speaker 17 Thankful. Very thankful that I won trust in my gut because we're trained to do that from day one.
Because it's the only thing you really got to back yourself up on calls when you're by yourself.

Speaker 21 Sure.

Speaker 95 If somebody seems a little hinky, maybe he is.

Speaker 17 And you just need to investigate it further. It's not prying, it's trying to figure out if there's something more to the story than what you're hearing.

Speaker 17 And a lot of the times when you trust your gut, it's right.

Speaker 63 Neither David Moffat nor his attorney agreed to be interviewed.

Speaker 56 He appealed and lost, but is still trying to get a new trial as he sits in prison.

Speaker 91 His sentence was mandatory in Iowa, life without parole.

Speaker 62 Cold comfort for Justin's family.

Speaker 50 Only photos of him now and memories of the good person he was.

Speaker 35 Habitat for Humanity, his favorite charity, built a house in his honor.

Speaker 66 His colleagues at Wells Fargo worked on it.

Speaker 67 It's one of the perfect memorial, I think, for him.

Speaker 13 He would like to see

Speaker 13 something good come out of

Speaker 13 the terrible thing that happened.

Speaker 49 There's a thing that happens to people when they truly grieve.

Speaker 44 It isn't voluntary, and it takes a long time.

Speaker 45 Grief is a wave and sometimes

Speaker 45 it just fills you and it takes you away. And it happens less frequently now than it did six months or nine months ago.

Speaker 8 But

Speaker 45 it's still debilitating. And we knew then

Speaker 45 that physically he was gone and

Speaker 45 in our hearts we still haven't let him go.

Speaker 13 It's just still hard to believe that

Speaker 13 a person could be that evil. Evil is the only word I can think of, inhuman

Speaker 13 to do something like that.

Speaker 45 He just seems like, you know, he was a swelled. He didn't get his way.

Speaker 45 And he took Justin's life

Speaker 45 for no reason.

Speaker 71 And the woman at the center of it all?

Speaker 32 What kind of a life would she have had with him?

Speaker 36 A thought perhaps best packed away, like a lot of things.

Speaker 6 Had the...

Speaker 6 Had the wedding dress.

Speaker 6 Had the houses booked, had the venue booked, had catering booked. I mean, we were

Speaker 6 just a little over two months out. Yeah.

Speaker 84 Boy, oh boy, a wedding dress is such a

Speaker 65 simple.

Speaker 43 What do you do with a thing like that in a situation that you're in?

Speaker 19 I haven't even looked at it.

Speaker 90 Where do you put it?

Speaker 6 It's in my mom's basement.

Speaker 6 She's moved a couple of times and it's in her basement.

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