Raising the Dead

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Speaker 14 Tonight on Dateline.

Speaker 15 She loved horses. She was a horse girl.

Speaker 16 Well, he was just...

Speaker 15 He was a cowboy.

Speaker 17 You never ever thought that something like this would touch your life, that somebody would break into your home and kill you.

Speaker 19 My sister was stabbed. Tim was stabbed.
It was pretty much gut-wrenching devastation.

Speaker 20 The major scene took place inside the house.

Speaker 21 What did you see when you got in there?

Speaker 20 A lot of blood. Probably the worst scene in my entire career.

Speaker 24 There were some strange goings on before this occurred. Tim's truck was blown up, is that right?

Speaker 20 There was an explosion and all of a sudden it was burning.

Speaker 25 He had gotten at least one threatening letter.

Speaker 26 The letter scared me.

Speaker 16 I just said, you need to be careful.

Speaker 27 There were a lot of suspects, a lot of people who might have done it.

Speaker 26 I thought, that's insane. There's been a mistake.

Speaker 29 In my heart, I know he did not do this.

Speaker 30 He's an innocent man.

Speaker 31 30 years without an answer.

Speaker 32 And then finally, there is one.

Speaker 33 It's pretty tough to talk about.

Speaker 16 I mean, murder is shocking, but this?

Speaker 35 Two deaths, three decades, one shattering twist.

Speaker 33 Murder at the farmhouse.

Speaker 36 I'm Lester Holt, and this is Date Live.

Speaker 38 Here's Keith Morrison with Raising the Dead.

Speaker 39 The morning was gray

Speaker 40 and solemn.

Speaker 43 It was Friday, the 13th of June, 2025.

Speaker 44 We are present at Oakwood Cemetery in the city of Wiawega.

Speaker 44 This is the official recording for the court-ordered exhumation.

Speaker 42 They knew, every one of them knew, it could all turn on this moment. Raising the dead to solve the murders.

Speaker 25 Evidence doesn't lie.

Speaker 46 Was the man in the grave the killer?

Speaker 21 Did you hear that he had made statements about getting away with murder?

Speaker 26 I did.

Speaker 47 Or would he, now long dead, point to someone else?

Speaker 16 He's not a man.

Speaker 16 He is a monster.

Speaker 32 It all started on another Friday.

Speaker 48 in tiny Wiawega, Wisconsin.

Speaker 14 That was March 20th, 1992.

Speaker 8 Tana Togstadt Togstadt and her boyfriend Tim Mumbrew were heading for a night out at a bar.

Speaker 14 Tim's sister, Tina.

Speaker 50 Their plans were they were going to go watch a band called Sweetwater.

Speaker 51 Are you coming?

Speaker 47 This is Tana's brother, Rick.

Speaker 19 They were up there dancing and stuff.

Speaker 38 They liked to have a noisy, good time.

Speaker 19 No, yeah, yeah, they did. Yeah, Tana and Tim, they enjoyed having fun, yes.

Speaker 8 And why not?

Speaker 53 She was 23, he 34, and their love was still new, exuberant.

Speaker 10 They were on a double date with their friend Jill and her boyfriend.

Speaker 25 It was elbow to elbow. Tim and Tana started dancing Country Swing, which takes up a lot of room and it's a very fast-moving dance.

Speaker 9 Not everyone loved that, as Jill could see, even if Tana didn't.

Speaker 25 I said, it might be a good idea for us to leave. I expected an argument, but she's like, yeah, I think I'm ready to go too.

Speaker 23 You don't forget certain moments.

Speaker 52 Even now, Jill recalls it fresh, like a wound.

Speaker 25 She gave me a hug, which was

Speaker 25 odd. We weren't real, you know, physically affectionate at all.
And then she said, you know, will you come over to my house tomorrow morning?

Speaker 8 When Saturday broke, Jill saw that it had snowed overnight.

Speaker 55 She didn't feel like going to see Tana.

Speaker 25 I

Speaker 25 talked myself out of going over there. We did that often, you know,

Speaker 25 I guess broke commitments, and I thought maybe she would call me later in the day and say, hey, are you going with us tonight? But I never heard from her.

Speaker 8 All day that Saturday, no one heard from Tana, and no one heard from Tim, which was unusual given Tana's family lived right next door.

Speaker 58 And then the following day, Sunday, they couldn't help but notice Tana and Tim's Tim's trucks hadn't moved and Tana hadn't fed her horse.

Speaker 60 And so

Speaker 60 they walked over to her farmhouse, went inside.

Speaker 22 What they saw could not be erased or undone.

Speaker 20 I was the detective on call for the weekend, and my weekend was winding down.

Speaker 39 It was mid-afternoon when Al Crager, then a newly promoted police detective, got the call, go to Tana's farmhouse.

Speaker 20 They just said there were people deceased, and I was to head over there. The chief deputy was en route.

Speaker 62 Oh boy, a big deal here.

Speaker 59 Yes.

Speaker 20 When I got to the scene, everything was roped off with the Do Not Cross sheriff line.

Speaker 46 Another detective took him inside the house.

Speaker 21 What did you see when you got in there?

Speaker 20 A lot of blood. Then he takes me to the bedroom, and

Speaker 20 that was like there was a war in that room.

Speaker 57 Tim's body was on the floor.

Speaker 63 Could you tell what had been done to him?

Speaker 20 He had a lot of blood on his chest.

Speaker 61 He'd been in a hell of a fight.

Speaker 47 Was stabbed 27 times.

Speaker 42 His throat cut.

Speaker 48 Tana's body lay on the bed.

Speaker 20 Totally exposed with no clothes. And then she had one single piercing to the heart area in the chest.

Speaker 5 Man.

Speaker 64 Had you ever seen such a thing before?

Speaker 65 Never.

Speaker 20 Never.

Speaker 20 In fact, that was probably the worst scene I've ever seen in my entire career, 41 years.

Speaker 55 Not even Tana's little dog, Scruffy, was spared.

Speaker 67 Scruffy,

Speaker 20 we believe, was stabbed out by the front door.

Speaker 58 Did it seem to you like it was done by one person or more than one person?

Speaker 20 That was tossed back and forth. Could it be one? Could one possibly do that? Whoever entered took him by surprise.

Speaker 62 And was very, very angry.

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 70 Inside the farmhouse, Crime Lab techs went about the dismal work as best it could be done in 1992.

Speaker 20 Blood was collected from various spots. There was semen collected on Tana, so we believe she was sexually assaulted.

Speaker 14 They lifted what fingerprints they could, though perhaps surprising, given that chaotic scene, they didn't get any useful matches.

Speaker 59 But there was this.

Speaker 20 The door was taken because we had a bloody palm print. They collected anything that they thought might help in the future in case this case didn't get solved immediately.

Speaker 10 Just as well, because it did not get solved immediately.

Speaker 8 Neighbor eyed neighbor with suspicion.

Speaker 16 Are we next?

Speaker 62 As the families lived and relived their pain,

Speaker 72 never giving up on justice.

Speaker 19 I don't give up.

Speaker 56 No matter what.

Speaker 39 They were sure they knew who did it.

Speaker 74 Guilty as hell.

Speaker 19 He knows that he did it.

Speaker 75 The evidence was overwhelming.

Speaker 42 And they were sure they knew who didn't do it.

Speaker 76 It's not possible.

Speaker 25 I was just in disbelief.

Speaker 66 There's just no way.

Speaker 78 No way.

Speaker 39 But of course, that's why we have juries, isn't it?

Speaker 79 I said, he'll either be found guilty by the 12 in the jury or by God.

Speaker 11 That Sunday in March 1992, amateurs monitoring the crackle of police radios picked up the news that Tana and Tim had been stabbed to death.

Speaker 7 Neighbors lit up the phone lines as they tried to reach the couple's families.

Speaker 19 Get home as soon as you can. They said, well, what happened?

Speaker 10 Tana's brother, Rick, was out getting farm supplies when his wife called the store to find him.

Speaker 19 Just in a panic. She said, Tana's dead, Tim's dead.

Speaker 8 What happens inside you when, you know, in your stomach and your heart?

Speaker 9 The pain and the anger and...

Speaker 19 I guess I was completely distraught.

Speaker 70 Tana's friend, Jill, who, remember, had planned to see Tana again hours after they'd all left the bar on Friday night, was working when she got the news from her mom.

Speaker 25 At first, I thought, well, this has to be some kind of mistake. And

Speaker 25 I didn't, I was just in shock.

Speaker 82 Tim's sister Tina had been expecting him to visit that weekend.

Speaker 50 I can't even explain how horrific it is to have something that

Speaker 50 savagely, brutally horrific happen.

Speaker 2 She called her brother Todd in a foreign run.

Speaker 33 It was Tina.

Speaker 20 She told me they both had been stabbed to death.

Speaker 84 Meanwhile, Tana's family told investigators about some strange noises they heard from their place just a few yards away, night of the murders.

Speaker 20 Tana's sister heard a dog barking in the middle of the night. She got up to explore and see what was going on.
And she looked out this window right over here.

Speaker 20 She saw a pickup truck leaving the residence and it sped off very fast.

Speaker 8 That was after 4 a.m.

Speaker 60 on Saturday.

Speaker 9 The detective figured it could have been the murderer or murderers getting away.

Speaker 5 But why would anyone want to murder this young couple, both from local farming families?

Speaker 27 Tim remember was 34, Tana just 23.

Speaker 15 She was just... She was a goofball.

Speaker 87 She was an absolute goofball.

Speaker 8 And captivating, said friends Michelle and Tammy, from the minute they met her in high school.

Speaker 33 It was her smile.

Speaker 15 And it would just light her face up.

Speaker 16 And you would just see just behind the eyes this little bit of trouble.

Speaker 25 She loved horses, but also dogs and cats and cowboy culture.

Speaker 48 We got along really good.

Speaker 19 It was just her love of life and her fun personality.

Speaker 32 Fun, even when getting busted by the cops.

Speaker 17 We ended up getting underage drinking, but not Tana because she told the cop that she wasn't feeling all that great.

Speaker 76 And she's like, sucker,

Speaker 51 you got it, not me.

Speaker 4 And I'm like, really?

Speaker 10 When her father died, Tana moved into his farmhouse.

Speaker 42 To pay the bills, this being Wisconsin, she worked at a local cheese factory.

Speaker 37 Boys, her friends said she was cautious, didn't put up with any BS.

Speaker 16 For her, I think her knight in shining armor would be a cowboy.

Speaker 8 And around Halloween of 1991, she found him.

Speaker 26 Tall, slender,

Speaker 16 great smile,

Speaker 17 attractive looking man.

Speaker 16 If you saw him standing someplace, you would think he came in on a horse.

Speaker 4 Her cowboy, Tim.

Speaker 50 All of our family have been rodeo people.

Speaker 93 We're all really close.

Speaker 7 Tim's friends, Carol and Mark.

Speaker 74 He was good to everybody. Easy going, good with the kids.

Speaker 42 Tim was the protector when his sister Tina was 12 years old.

Speaker 50 We were hunting and I had fallen through the ice and I was up to my neck and he was the first one up there to run up to me and grab my gun and pull me out of that.

Speaker 54 After a stint in the U.S.

Speaker 81 Navy, back home, Tim got a job doing maintenance at the local iron foundry.

Speaker 70 But his passion was rodeo.

Speaker 50 He would protect the kids by being the clown to distract the bulls so that the bulls wouldn't hurt the kids.

Speaker 10 It was thanks to Tina that Tim first laid eyes on Tana.

Speaker 42 He had been looking through Tina's photos.

Speaker 50 A picture of Tana was in those pictures because Tana was at my baby shower.

Speaker 50 And he saw her and he's like, who is she? I need to meet her.

Speaker 4 Awkward.

Speaker 73 Tim was still married to his second wife, Colleen.

Speaker 8 They had a four-year-old son.

Speaker 55 So Tina said maybe not a good idea.

Speaker 7 But Tim didn't listen.

Speaker 11 And anyway, he and Colleen were getting a divorce.

Speaker 85 It was weeks away from being finalized.

Speaker 50 Tim, when he set his mind to doing something, he was going to do it.

Speaker 2 So Tim and Tana became an item.

Speaker 53 They rode horses, they went dancing, they fell hard for each other, said Tim's brother-in-law, Mike.

Speaker 65 He was in love with her.

Speaker 9 Devoted, apparently until his last breath.

Speaker 94 He did everything he could until he couldn't do nothing else. And it was to protect her and to keep her safe.

Speaker 88 But why them, of all people?

Speaker 32 Neither Tana nor Tim seemed to have any enemies.

Speaker 48 There was no obvious motive.

Speaker 46 Not from the crime scene, anyway.

Speaker 60 Was there any sign of robbery?

Speaker 20 Not that we could tell. Once the family was allowed to go in there, once the scene was released, they couldn't pinpoint anything that was taken.

Speaker 95 So somebody just walked in on the middle of the night as they were in bed?

Speaker 81 Yes.

Speaker 42 In a town like Wiaweka, with fewer than 2,000 people, somebody had to know something.

Speaker 42 Tana's brother Rick was sure of it.

Speaker 95 What's in a little town?

Speaker 19 Well, little town, as they say. Everybody knows everybody and everybody's business.

Speaker 14 Way back at the beginning, soon after that awful Saturday in 1992, investigators already had some solid leads.

Speaker 41 They knew who they needed to talk to.

Speaker 20 He had a temper

Speaker 20 and

Speaker 20 he was into knives.

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Speaker 27 Investigators were pretty sure of it.

Speaker 109 They'd soon figure out who killed Tim and Tana.

Speaker 21 Did the sheriff tell you that he thought it could be solved fairly quickly?

Speaker 19 I think they did think it was going to be solved very quickly.

Speaker 14 As Detective Krager interviewed family and friends, he learned that there had been signs, terrible signs, that something bad was coming.

Speaker 38 Scary stuff.

Speaker 14 About two months before the murders, Tim's truck was parked in the driveway.

Speaker 50 Then we heard just the most horrific

Speaker 50 boom you could imagine.

Speaker 20 Something exploded underneath the hood and his truck caught on fire.

Speaker 50 And his whole entire truck was engulfed in flames and it was 20 feet in the air. Everything that he had

Speaker 50 from his home was in the back of that truck. And he was in the back of the truck throwing things off.

Speaker 83 They were all yelling and gotta there and it just burned up.

Speaker 20 Of course they called the police right away they couldn't find out if there was something put in there to detonate or what nobody knew why or how or who write it correct

Speaker 14 then poison pen letters arrived about a month before the murders one warned tana that tim was a jealous violent man and that he was using her

Speaker 14 another warned tim that Tana was sleeping around.

Speaker 110 The final threat came just days before the murders.

Speaker 14 A message scrawled on a bathroom wall at the foundry where Tim worked.

Speaker 93 Tim Mumbrew must die on Friday or something like that.

Speaker 24 And Friday was the day it happened, right?

Speaker 20 Friday night into Saturday morning, yes.

Speaker 111 Did you get the sense from these incidents that somebody was targeting?

Speaker 2 At least Tim and maybe both of them?

Speaker 81 Yes.

Speaker 73 But who?

Speaker 19 I suspected everybody. Anybody that looked at me crossways.

Speaker 84 And one obvious man to suspect was a guy known as Scooter.

Speaker 23 Scooter was Tana's ex-boyfriend.

Speaker 2 What did you know about Scooter?

Speaker 20 He had a temper. Uh-huh.
And

Speaker 20 he was into knives.

Speaker 27 Tana's family and friends had stories about Scooter.

Speaker 39 He could be scary, they told the detective, and violent, too.

Speaker 25 This is where Scooter punched the wall. This is where Scooter kicked the wall in or broke the door or whatever.

Speaker 16 He threw a beer bottle through the back window of his truck and she was sitting in the passenger side. It came through the window and just ruptured the window.

Speaker 16 I don't know if she got hit by the bottle, but I went to see Tana the day after and she was still picking glass out of her hair.

Speaker 10 Thing was, investigators learned Scooter was determined that Tana couldn't leave him.

Speaker 16 He did not take the breakup well. He threatened her.
If I can't have her, nobody will. So we just assumed it was him that he finally did it.

Speaker 41 He was a good suspect.

Speaker 20 Yes, he was. He had nobody that could give him an alibi.
I interviewed him many times. I was convinced he was our guy.

Speaker 39 But

Speaker 52 relationships.

Speaker 77 If Tana's ex was getting the third degree, so was Tim's.

Speaker 14 In fact, Krager discovered that Tim's not quite ex-wife, Colleen, was the one who'd written those menacing letters to both Tana and Tim.

Speaker 53 Was it obvious right at the get-go that it was Colleen?

Speaker 81 Yes.

Speaker 73 The divorce was especially bitter because Tim, who'd moved in with his sister Tina, wanted more access to their four-year-old son, according to family.

Speaker 50 The divorce that he was going through was the most wicked divorce thing I'd ever seen and heard. I needed to remove my baby daughter from the house.

Speaker 50 because of what was being said on both ends of the phone.

Speaker 68 Did you question Colleen?

Speaker 20 Yes, but she was a very small, petite gal,

Speaker 20 and there was no way that she could do this. If she wanted it done, she would have to find somebody to do it for her.

Speaker 59 So was it a murder for hire?

Speaker 8 Certainly there was a motive, possible one, anyway.

Speaker 20 There was a $100,000 life insurance policy.

Speaker 38 That had to make you think a time or two?

Speaker 20 Or three or four.

Speaker 45 They couldn't find the murder weapon, the knife, but they had two viable suspects, and they didn't stop there.

Speaker 9 They widened the search and rounded up men who lived in the area who were known in the past to have been violent.

Speaker 73 One of them was a guy who worked at the foundry where Tim worked and also lived close to Tana's farmhouse.

Speaker 39 His name was Jeff Teal.

Speaker 20 He was capable of doing it. He had a record.
He carried a knife, but his threats usually were with a gun.

Speaker 5 Jeez.

Speaker 24 Nice fella.

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 71 A fella investigators learned who liked liked a drop or two of the hard stuff.

Speaker 19 If you ran into him in a bar or someplace where he's having a bunch of liquid fight, you just stayed away from him.

Speaker 84 He just

Speaker 19 always carried a knife and he'd come off as a very mean ombre.

Speaker 25 I just remember a lot of talk about violence with him, domestic abuse.

Speaker 38 Kind of the guy you would think, we got to look at him for sure.

Speaker 30 Well, they did.

Speaker 19 They did look at him for sure.

Speaker 42 What might his motive have been?

Speaker 10 Investigators found out that Jeff Teal had stolen some wire from the foundry, and Tim had turned him in.

Speaker 95 What did you think about him as a possible suspect?

Speaker 20 With his background and his build and strength,

Speaker 20 he was certainly a person that we had to go after.

Speaker 42 Tim and Tana, such a bright young couple, were gone.

Speaker 7 The whole county seemed in mourning as their families laid them to rest.

Speaker 19 All I remember is I could still see her laying there.

Speaker 30 And the rest of the whole thing was just.

Speaker 56 I don't remember any of it really.

Speaker 19 I was in shock.

Speaker 17 Tana's mom let out such a guttural.

Speaker 16 It sounded like an animal.

Speaker 17 It was, it was devastating.

Speaker 16 She screamed, oh my Tana, why my Tana?

Speaker 16 Man, sorest thing.

Speaker 19 It was pretty much gut-wrenching devastation. It was like,

Speaker 19 you don't even know the amount of pain that's involved.

Speaker 8 In a separate ceremony, Tim was honored as any cowboy would hope to be.

Speaker 94 There was a team of black horses that was the escort out to the cemetery, and they were the capes and like you'd see like in the old movies or something like that.

Speaker 94 So it was like the old west type of thing.

Speaker 10 Tim's brother-in-law, Mike, remembers how investigators roamed through the mourners.

Speaker 94 They videotaped the whole thing, and I understood why. I mean, most time a person does something like this, they may come back and act like nothing's wrong just to see.

Speaker 40 Did it help?

Speaker 8 Not much, apparently.

Speaker 42 this wouldn't be quick and easy after all

Speaker 70 but every day the investigators chipped away at their leads and one by one their list of potential suspects narrowed this was 1992 remember it was two years before the oj simpson case made dna a household word back then detective krager and the others could only compare blood types But that simple test was enough to rule out their very first person of interest, Tana's ex-boyfriend, Scooter.

Speaker 20 He did not match, so then I left him alone and moved on.

Speaker 8 Moved on to Tim's ex, Colleen.

Speaker 45 The investigators brought her in again and again,

Speaker 7 trying to suss out whether she hired someone to kill Tim for the insurance money.

Speaker 20 That was looked at very hard. In fact, I think we even held that up for a while, the payment of it, until we were totally convinced that she

Speaker 20 probably didn't have anything to do with it.

Speaker 48 Eventually, investigators would rule her out.

Speaker 42 But they kept looking at Jeff Teal, that known-to-be-violent character from the foundry.

Speaker 14 He had left town three years after the murders in 1995, but the next year, in 1996, they got a sample of Teal's blood.

Speaker 41 That's around the time DNA was becoming an evidence gold standard.

Speaker 73 They ran a test with Thial's blood.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 14 investigators concluded Teal

Speaker 54 was not the killer either.

Speaker 8 Well, they kept at it, but there were no arrests, no new suspects.

Speaker 110 Then in 2008, Mike Sassy took over the case.

Speaker 2 Sassy, one of the original deputies of the crime scene, was by 2008 an agent with the Wisconsin Division of Criminal Investigation, the DCI.

Speaker 79 Myself and my partner started to methodically go piece by piece by piece through this investigation, organizing it into the modern day age.

Speaker 41 They dug all the way back to the first days of the investigation, looking for leads that back in 1992 didn't look like leads.

Speaker 42 It was granular sort of work.

Speaker 68 And it seemed to pay off when in 2012, they found something, or rather someone,

Speaker 46 and they pounced on it.

Speaker 79 I get to a name of Glendon Gowker.

Speaker 8 Glendon Gowker was one of the men they'd looked looked at back in 1992.

Speaker 79 Glendon Gauker then worked for a man named Lane Shields, and he ran a Western store at the time.

Speaker 41 Why was that an issue?

Speaker 85 Tim and Tana bought their cowboy gear in that store, so a kind of connection.

Speaker 71 Anyway, back in 1992, they interviewed Gowker multiple times, strapped him into a polygraph at one point.

Speaker 9 Nothing came of it then.

Speaker 86 But now?

Speaker 79 I literally go to Google and I looked at my partner and I said, is it Glendon C. Gowker? He said, yeah, why?

Speaker 79 And I said, because he's in Oklahoma and he's in custody for a homicide he committed in Oklahoma in 2010.

Speaker 79 And it was a brutal murder.

Speaker 27 The case was splayed across the internet.

Speaker 42 In September of 2010, a 19-year-old man named Ethan Walton drove out with his girlfriend to meet with Gauker at his home outside of Prague, Oklahoma.

Speaker 8 Gauker lived in a trailer home down a dead end road.

Speaker 81 Ethan thought he was there to sell Gauker some land.

Speaker 79 There was a property deal that was fictitiously put together by Galker.

Speaker 47 Instead,

Speaker 79 Galker kills him and puts him in 55-gallon drums. He calls the girlfriend into the shed.
She comes in and he sexually assaults her. She's naked and literally gets herself free.

Speaker 23 She squeezed through a window to escape, then ran for dear life through a field to the nearest neighbor's place and made it.

Speaker 62 Gauker in hot pursuit shooting off his gun before the police caught up to them.

Speaker 10 And now Galker was facing the death penalty for killing the boyfriend.

Speaker 79 As this hits warp speed, like we might be onto something here. We now have somebody that's in custody for the same situation.
Yeah. That's involved in our case and was a suspect back in 1992.

Speaker 79 It marries up very similar to Tim and Tana.

Speaker 21 It sounds to me like this guy fits the profile of a psychosexual serial assaulter, if not killer.

Speaker 71 Correct. You think you got something here?

Speaker 79 Yeah, we think we got something. Absolutely, we do.

Speaker 41 After the murders, a certain terror descended on Waupaca County, Wisconsin.

Speaker 16 This was a safe community.

Speaker 17 Tana never locked her doors. For the longest time, I went through, oh my gosh, is it something that did they go after Tana and now maybe Michelle's next or I'm next? Yeah.

Speaker 29 Yeah, that was a definite fear.

Speaker 33 Yeah.

Speaker 10 As long as the case went unsolved, that fear lingered.

Speaker 41 Now Agent Sassy and his unit had revived a person of interest, Glendon Gauker.

Speaker 10 As they dug into his time in Wapaka County, they discovered police had interviewed him even before Tim and Tana's murders for another crime back in 1990.

Speaker 79 Glendon Galker had been a person of interest in a rape in the village of Iola, which is 20, 30 miles from this location.

Speaker 21 Just your sort of guy who would do this.

Speaker 79 Yes, he's a guy with a violent demeanor. He was never caught for the rape.

Speaker 54 Back in 1990, in the days before common use of DNA testing, investigators simply didn't have sufficient evidence to charge him.

Speaker 59 And the case went cold.

Speaker 23 But now, Gauker was in jail in Oklahoma, charged with rape and capital murder, and Oklahoma had his DNA.

Speaker 11 And it matched, no question,

Speaker 39 Gauker was the rapist.

Speaker 6 So maybe Gauker killed Tim and Tana, too.

Speaker 60 Kind of want to talk to him.

Speaker 4 Right.

Speaker 65 And Galker agreed to cooperate.

Speaker 42 But with one very big condition, the death penalty he was facing.

Speaker 8 They'd have to make that go away.

Speaker 7 And after some wrangling, they made a deal.

Speaker 79 So we go down and we confront him. And I said, I know you did this.
You were involved in the Togsted Mumbrew case. And he starts shaking.
He just literally starts shaking.

Speaker 60 I didn't do anything.

Speaker 42 He swore he did not murder Tim and Tana.

Speaker 59 So who did?

Speaker 77 Gauker pointed the finger at this man, Lane Shields, his former boss at that western shop that Tim and Tanna frequented.

Speaker 11 Gauker listed off all sorts of crimes he said he'd committed at Lane's behest, anywhere from arson to burying bodies.

Speaker 64 Gauker told them Shields had asked him to murder Tim and Tanna.

Speaker 112 He asked me, he said, where I killed him, where I killed him.

Speaker 112 He said, I don't want him shot and he said I want him,

Speaker 112 quote, slaughter my cattle.

Speaker 53 And it freaked me out because I'm like, he insisted he refused the job.

Speaker 42 And Gauker said, after the murders, Lane admitted he was responsible.

Speaker 112 I asked him directly, did you do it? He said, I brought somebody in. When you said no, he said, I brought somebody in from outside to do it.

Speaker 14 Gaucker offered to take a polygraph to back up his claims. They conducted it the very next day.

Speaker 113 Regarding the two victims, did you stab either one of them?

Speaker 79 He fails questions about did he kill

Speaker 79 Tana Togsted and Tim Umbrew.

Speaker 8 So what was true and what wasn't? The investigators headed back to Wisconsin to try to run down Gauker's account.

Speaker 39 They got nowhere.

Speaker 85 And so they returned to Oklahoma.

Speaker 114 There were some inconsistencies last time.

Speaker 10 And this time, Galker told them a different story.

Speaker 114 There's only one thing that I haven't told you.

Speaker 42 He admitted he was at Tannis' farmhouse the night of the murders,

Speaker 41 but he said he didn't stab anybody.

Speaker 53 He was just the driver.

Speaker 115 And you're saying you never went in that house?

Speaker 114 No.

Speaker 114 I certainly drove.

Speaker 114 I was not in the house. I was never in that house.
You won't find anything

Speaker 114 for me in that house.

Speaker 68 It was Lane who went into the farmhouse, he said, with that guy Lane had hired.

Speaker 114 I drove him

Speaker 114 and this guy out there that night.

Speaker 114 The night of the homicide?

Speaker 114 I drove.

Speaker 114 Alright. That's all I did.
Who's the other guy?

Speaker 114 But he brought him from outside.

Speaker 79 Lane and the unknown third person, who he said was an Irish guy, committed the homicide.

Speaker 114 Tell me what's that when they walk out.

Speaker 114 Didn't say anything. Bull.

Speaker 114 Are you kidding me? No.

Speaker 114 I tell you, the guy that Lane brought, this guy is the scary guy. The guy scared the shit out of me.

Speaker 114 This guy

Speaker 114 was a predator.

Speaker 38 What did you make of his story?

Speaker 79 Well, obviously the hair stood up on my neck.

Speaker 59 But could they believe him?

Speaker 8 The truth and Glendon Gauker were not well acquainted at all.

Speaker 60 That was obvious.

Speaker 52 So...

Speaker 79 Are our chips all in on this poker table? Absolutely not. I mean, he is a con man.

Speaker 4 But a lot was writing on this.

Speaker 53 If there was even a chance his Lane Shield story was true, it had to be resolved one way or the other.

Speaker 10 Just maybe this admitted murderer, this slippery liar, would help them finally catch their killer.

Speaker 97 Hey, weirdos, I'm Alina, and I'm Ash, and we are the host of Morbid Podcast.

Speaker 18 Each week, we dive into the dark and fascinating world of true crime, spooky history, and the unexplained.

Speaker 89 From infamous killers and unsolved mysteries to haunted places and strange legends, we cover it all with research, empathy, humor, and a few creative expletives.

Speaker 101 It's smart, it's spooky, and it's just the right amount of weird.

Speaker 103 Two new episodes drop every week, and there's even a bonus once a month.

Speaker 28 Find us wherever you listen to podcasts.

Speaker 18 Yay! Woo!

Speaker 116 Love the night? Reach for Zinn After Dark, a limited cocktail-inspired series for those who get up when the sun goes down.

Speaker 116 Try Zinn's mojito, spiced cider, and espresso martini nicotine pouches. Find them at select retailers, available while supplies last.
Zinn After Dark. Bring on the night.

Speaker 116 Warning, this this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

Speaker 87 Dermatologists have long highlighted the benefits of indoor humidity for healthy, glowing skin.

Speaker 108 Dry air can start damaging your skin in just 30 minutes.

Speaker 87 That's where Canopy Humidifier comes in. Recommended by leading dermatologists, the Canopy Humidifier is a completely reimagined humidifier with invisible, clean moisture, the best kind for your skin.

Speaker 87 Go to getcanopy.co to save $25 on your purchase today with Canopy's filter subscription.

Speaker 108 Even better, use code Sirius to save an additional 10% off your Canopy purchase.

Speaker 87 Your skin will thank you.

Speaker 73 Murderer, rapist, admitted career criminal, Glendon Gowker, was hardly the sort of man any investigator could take at his word.

Speaker 10 Certainly not Mike Sassy or his partners.

Speaker 42 It helped, mind you, that Galker came clean and pleaded guilty to that whole other murder in Oklahoma.

Speaker 72 But his story claiming that his former boss, Lane Shields, was responsible for the Tim and Tana murders, well, it might be true, but they couldn't know without learning more about Lane Shields.

Speaker 10 And then they caught a break.

Speaker 79 We were able to actually draft and go up on a state Title III wiretap on Lane Shields. This has only been done maybe a few times in Wisconsin.

Speaker 23 You wouldn't be able to get one unless there was a pretty good case.

Speaker 4 Correct.

Speaker 80 How to get Lane talking about the murders?

Speaker 37 Well, get everyone else talking.

Speaker 79 We beefed the media up out of Green Bay in Madison and

Speaker 79 we put billboards up on near the crime scene out on our major highways around there. If you know who, any information who killed Tim and Tana, their pictures were on the billboards.
Please call.

Speaker 42 Now the thinking went?

Speaker 55 A nervous Lane would want to make sure the men with him at the murder would keep their mouths shut.

Speaker 77 So they set up a phone call, Gauker to Shields.

Speaker 4 And of course, unbeknownst to Shields, they listened to every word, full of, what, hope, expectation.

Speaker 41 Instead, what they got was the nasty, deflating feeling of having been had.

Speaker 41 They're not saying what you thought they'd say.

Speaker 33 Right.

Speaker 79 What we were led to believe they were going to say.

Speaker 4 Lane didn't sound worried or threatening or indicate any involvement at all.

Speaker 27 It was just worthless chit-chat.

Speaker 31 So, what did they say?

Speaker 79 There were no confessions. There were no admissions.
There were no, they're coming after me now.

Speaker 76 We didn't get what we were looking for.

Speaker 21 This wasn't the chatter of guilty individuals that you were hearing.

Speaker 33 Right.

Speaker 109 As for the rest of the so-called evidence Gauker had provided?

Speaker 79 We pulled out

Speaker 79 every investigative, high-end investigative technique that we could. And we didn't get anything that corroborated what Gauker was telling us.

Speaker 32 If that didn't put Gauker's account to rest, this did.

Speaker 68 They searched Lane Shields' property.

Speaker 113 You come in here and trash my fing house.

Speaker 65 They interviewed Blaine.

Speaker 81 He was angry, sure, but more than willing to talk.

Speaker 19 I gave you everything when you were here.

Speaker 117 We've talked back. I agree.

Speaker 8 To the investigators, the hard as nails, Blaine came off as upfront, even honest.

Speaker 23 I should have an evidentiary hearing on these people that are putting heat on me because it's not true.

Speaker 20 I run a fing

Speaker 23 here.

Speaker 60 So when he told them he was innocent, they believed him.

Speaker 54 Hard as they tried, investigators could find nothing incriminating. Agent Sassy walked away knowing Lane was not their guy.

Speaker 45 As for Gowker,

Speaker 8 they'd had enough of him.

Speaker 53 Was there ever any point in the conversations you had with him when you said, Glendon, you're full of it.

Speaker 34 Yes.

Speaker 1 And that was it.

Speaker 54 All that time and money they'd spent on Gowker and his story, their deal to allow him to avoid the death penalty for his own crimes in Oklahoma, it was all for naught.

Speaker 95 They wanted so badly to solve the Tim and Tanna murders, and Glendon Gowker had simply played them.

Speaker 23 For more than two and a half decades, Tim and Tanna's families were in the dark about the ups and downs of the investigation.

Speaker 4 There were no arrests, no resolutions.

Speaker 53 It never got easier.

Speaker 19 It was really stressful. It's very stressful.

Speaker 58 Rick Toddstad didn't blame the investigators.

Speaker 60 He knew how hard they were working.

Speaker 45 Still.

Speaker 19 Always seems like right around the anniversary, you know, the newspapers and local TV stations and everybody wanted to know what's going on.

Speaker 19 And, you know, and then I'd get all nerved up and I'd be hard to live with. And I'd be just...

Speaker 19 you know, wanting this thing solved and it wasn't getting done fast enough.

Speaker 27 Tim's older sister, sister, Tina.

Speaker 50 There's no closure, you know, and I watched my family suffer from so much unforgiveness and hurt, and that hurt would turn into anger and distrust.

Speaker 50 I mean, many of us didn't know who might be over our shoulder or why or because there was no answers.

Speaker 8 2018, Detective Captain Nick Traeger of the Wapaca County Sheriff's Office had taken over the case.

Speaker 2 By then, the world of DNA evidence had opened up like a flower, and Traeger wanted to try something new, familiar DNA.

Speaker 68 That is the now widely accepted method of finding unidentified suspects by searching for their family members in DNA databases and then using family trees to narrow it down.

Speaker 62 Basically means, okay, not this person, but maybe somebody related to this person.

Speaker 76 Correct.

Speaker 84 In the same genetic, in a line.

Speaker 76 Yeah, Yeah, so that was the thought process.

Speaker 58 They submitted that semen found on Tana's body to criminal databases and got back

Speaker 4 nothing.

Speaker 92 They were out of new methods to find their killer, out of names.

Speaker 39 They were rudderless.

Speaker 66 And then, a surprise.

Speaker 71 It was April 2022.

Speaker 42 A woman called investigators.

Speaker 38 She was a child at the time of the murder, she said, but she thought she knew who did it.

Speaker 4 A credible suspect, a suspect she knew all about.

Speaker 24 30 years after the crime, she was still carrying this around and she wanted to do something about it.

Speaker 76 Correct.

Speaker 68 She believed she told them that her DNA could finally identify the man who murdered Tim and Tana.

Speaker 70 And who was that person?

Speaker 76 So she turned on her profile and it was like the Christmas tree lit up.

Speaker 5 Really?

Speaker 76 Yes.

Speaker 5 Murder casts its dreadful damage wide and for a long, long time.

Speaker 23 Through the years Tim and Tana's families never stopped looking for answers.

Speaker 21 What is it about you, your personality, that made you push so hard for all these decades to try to solve this?

Speaker 34 Well,

Speaker 19 I don't give up.

Speaker 48 Maybe it's just as well Rick didn't get to know what he was up against as he vowed to get justice for his sister.

Speaker 19 I just don't stop. I won't stop.

Speaker 95 I will not stop.

Speaker 50 We prayed a lot that

Speaker 50 somebody would come forth and somebody wouldn't be able to live with themselves.

Speaker 41 Three decades after those brutal stabbings in Wiawega, Wisconsin, the family seemed to get their wish.

Speaker 3 When a woman called investigators in 2022, her name was Heather.

Speaker 72 She told the investigators she had heard about those murders when she was just a little girl.

Speaker 66 And ever since, she'd had this awful feeling that her father had something to do with it.

Speaker 53 And this got investigators' attention because

Speaker 77 her father was Jeff Teal.

Speaker 4 Remember him?

Speaker 55 Teal, a known violent offender, was one of the original suspects.

Speaker 37 But why did Heather wait so long?

Speaker 9 Well, it turned out she didn't.

Speaker 42 She told investigators the same thing way back in 2010 when Agent Mike Sassy had the case.

Speaker 111 Do you remember Heather Teal coming forward?

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 74 What did she have to say?

Speaker 79 She was emotional. She says, I think my dad had something to do with this.

Speaker 65 And I knew

Speaker 79 that he was ruled out.

Speaker 14 That's because three years after the murders, back in 1995, Jeff Thiel got into an armed standoff with law enforcement and then escaped and skipped town.

Speaker 48 It didn't end well.

Speaker 79 He dies by suicide, I believe, in the state of Washington.

Speaker 48 It's how investigators were able to get his DNA.

Speaker 79 The Sheriff's Department and detectives at that point in time are sent his clothing of when he died.

Speaker 58 That was blood on the shirt, is that correct?

Speaker 34 Yes.

Speaker 79 And that is sent in to a private lab, and he is compared to the semen left at the crime scene, and he's not a match.

Speaker 67 In other words, the DNA on his shirt said he didn't do it, and he was cleared.

Speaker 2 Jeff Teal was buried near his home in Wisconsin, and the suspicion about his involvement in the case was buried with him.

Speaker 73 But Heather Teal was so sure her father was behind the murders.

Speaker 24 30 years after the crime, she was still carrying this around and she wanted to do something about it.

Speaker 76 Correct.

Speaker 68 So Captain Traeker and his partner went to see Heather and her mom, Marie.

Speaker 44 You've always believed he's involved in this. What made you believe that?

Speaker 118 Because he did it and then said, it's funny how you can get away with murder these days.

Speaker 76 Jeff even saying

Speaker 76 to Marie, I've gotten away with murder.

Speaker 118 And his ultimate dream was to kill somebody. He used to tell me that all the time.

Speaker 44 Did you believe him?

Speaker 118 Oh yeah, he's had a gun in front of my face that if I ever call the cops on him, he's going to use it.

Speaker 76 A lot of childhood memories.

Speaker 89 My biggest memory of my dad is his obsession with knives too.

Speaker 118 Sitting in his chair in his rock recliner, sharpening his knives.

Speaker 42 On top of all that, they said, Jeff made it pretty obvious how he felt about Tana.

Speaker 118 He was obsessed with Tana.

Speaker 44 How do you know that?

Speaker 118 I had heard, and I can't remember who I had heard it from, if it was Tana herself, Jeff wanted to date Tana. Tana wanted nothing to do with Jeff.

Speaker 118 I always would think back when I heard that she was murdered or whatever that,

Speaker 118 okay, Jeff doesn't live far from her, wanted to date her she wanted nothing to do with him and how he always said he wanted to kill somebody and remember Tana's dog Scruffy was stabbed to death too apparently trying to protect him and Tana

Speaker 60 well Marie told investigators Jeff had a history of killing dogs two of them right in their neighborhood They were two huge dogs.

Speaker 118 I mean, they were really, really big, and Jeff shot them both. I saw him shoot them and kill them.
He picked them up and he threw them in the back of his truck. I remember.

Speaker 105 You saw Jeff shoot whose dogs?

Speaker 118 Neighbors' dogs.

Speaker 10 But DNA doesn't lie, and DNA cleared Jeff deal.

Speaker 77 Just to be thorough, they did a cheek swab, anyway, of Heather.

Speaker 76 So we collected her DNA, which she gave along with her mom, and I guess there was really no intent other than to, I guess, kind of have it because

Speaker 76 Jeff was eliminated.

Speaker 46 Then, just as they were getting ready to leave, Heather offered investigators something else.

Speaker 118 I'm on Ancestry, too.

Speaker 76 She had explained that she does the genealogy as well.

Speaker 14 She told investigators she'd been working on her family tree on ancestry.com and offered them access to her account.

Speaker 39 The FBI had been helping with the investigation and got to work.

Speaker 76 And the FBI agent had reached out to Heather to turn the feature on where law enforcement can view your profile. So she turned on her profile and

Speaker 76 it was

Speaker 70 like the Christmas tree lit up.

Speaker 78 Really?

Speaker 76 Yes.

Speaker 59 Heather was right.

Speaker 10 There was a connection with her father.

Speaker 49 But here came the twist and it was a big one.

Speaker 76 So the FBI agent said, we are very close in the family, but it's not Jeff Thiel.

Speaker 41 After 30 years of of waiting, investigators finally had a DNA match and a new name.

Speaker 22 Was this their man?

Speaker 97 Hey, weirdos, I'm Elena and I'm Ash and we are the host of Morbid Podcast.

Speaker 18 Each week we dive into the dark and fascinating world of true crime, spooky history, and the unexplained.

Speaker 100 From infamous killers and unsolved mysteries to haunted places and strange legends, we cover it all with research, empathy, humor, and a few creative expletives.

Speaker 101 It's smart, it's spooky, and it's just the right amount of weird.

Speaker 103 Two new episodes drop every week, and there's even a bonus once a month.

Speaker 28 Find us wherever you listen to podcasts.

Speaker 18 Yay! Woo!

Speaker 116 Love the night? Reach for Zen after Dark, a limited cocktail-inspired series for those who get up when the sun goes down.

Speaker 116 Try Zinn's mojito, spiced cider, and espresso martini nicotine pouches. Find them at select retailers.
Available while supplies last. Zinn After Dark.
Bring on the night.

Speaker 116 Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

Speaker 87 Dermatologists have long highlighted the benefits of indoor humidity for healthy, glowing skin.

Speaker 108 Dry air can start damaging your skin in just 30 minutes.

Speaker 87 That's where Canopy Humidifier comes in. Recommended by leading dermatologists, the Canopy Humidifier is a completely reimagined humidifier with invisible, clean moisture, the best kind for your skin.

Speaker 87 Go to getcanopy.co to save $25 on your purchase today with Canopy's filter subscription.

Speaker 108 Even better, use code Sirius to save an additional 10% off your Canopy purchase.

Speaker 87 Your skin will thank you.

Speaker 14 Summer of 2022, 30 years after the murders of Tim Mumbrew and Tana Togstad, investigators finally had a new suspect.

Speaker 59 Genetic genealogy pointed to Heather Teal's first cousin and Jeff Teal's nephew.

Speaker 88 a man named Tony Hayes.

Speaker 76 Nobody had ever heard of Tony Hayes in the case file. So we started looking into, you know, where does Tony Hayes live?

Speaker 76 Who is he? And realized that he lives less than two miles from the original crime scene.

Speaker 8 Like a lot of men in town, Tony worked at the Iron Foundry.

Speaker 9 But unlike his uncle Jeff Teal, he had no criminal record.

Speaker 76 Just unbelievable. He's been there his entire life.
and he's a nobody.

Speaker 109 Hiding in plain sight.

Speaker 76 Correct. So we spent several weeks following Tony and it was

Speaker 76 the same thing almost every day. He went to work at the foundry and he went home and he worked around the farm.

Speaker 45 What to do?

Speaker 10 Get the man's DNA.

Speaker 45 So they rifled through his garbage, but nothing.

Speaker 65 So we had to get creative.

Speaker 41 Yeah, I would think.

Speaker 38 I mean, because you're chasing him around looking for him to drop.

Speaker 76 Yeah, throw something out the windows. Yeah.

Speaker 47 They noticed that Tony's car was missing its front license plate.

Speaker 8 So they came up with a plan.

Speaker 76 Let's write him a warning for no front plates and have him touch a brand new pen, and then we'll send the pen down to see if he's a match.

Speaker 62 Clever idea, but it would involve you kind of conducting this ruse traffic stop, right?

Speaker 76 That's what we did. I am Trooper Pullman with the State Patrol.

Speaker 95 I stopped you for no front plate on the vehicle today. I'm just going to ask that you sign to acknowledge that you're a secret warning.
Got a pen right there for you as well.

Speaker 42 They sent the pen with Tony's DNA to the lab, and

Speaker 49 it was a match.

Speaker 5 Wow.

Speaker 95 What was that moment like?

Speaker 20 It was unbelievable.

Speaker 76 I've never felt so joyous in my life.

Speaker 4 And yet, nothing about him looked like the killer.

Speaker 8 He was just a regular guy, a father of four, with no criminal record of any kind.

Speaker 6 Not even a hint of any impropriety.

Speaker 23 He lived quietly on the same farm his family had owned for decades.

Speaker 26 We spent a lot of time goofing off at the farm and with our grandparents.

Speaker 72 Tony's sister, Cherry Hayes Gust.

Speaker 26 But as we got older, he was my defender. I always looked up to him.

Speaker 14 Jody Lynn Morgan met and rode the school bus with Tony when they were just five years old.

Speaker 119 He's the gentle giant.

Speaker 120 As long as I've known him, always, always has been.

Speaker 41 So they grew up liking each other and then loving each other.

Speaker 85 They lived together for about two years, had two kids before deciding to go their separate ways.

Speaker 48 And then a couple of years after that, Tony went on to marry Tracy.

Speaker 38 How'd you meet him?

Speaker 91 We both liked to fish, so we met in a bait shop.

Speaker 21 Yeah, that was his thing, right?

Speaker 78 How did you get fishing?

Speaker 29 Yep, both of ours. Yep.

Speaker 63 Tony and Tracy had two kids of their own and eventually grandchildren.

Speaker 23 The couple celebrated their 25th wedding anniversary in June of 2022.

Speaker 111 And two months later, investigators went to the Iron Foundry, found Tony, and asked to speak with him.

Speaker 76 So he came in

Speaker 76 very nonchalant. It was low-key.

Speaker 24 Hi, Tony.

Speaker 76 We introduced ourselves. We asked just kind of some basic background questions of him, who he was, where he lives, some work history.

Speaker 109 He knew Tim and Tana personally?

Speaker 76 He said he had never met Tim. He knew of Tanna only because they lived in the same town.

Speaker 52 Interesting.

Speaker 117 Did he wonder why you were talking to him about this all these years later?

Speaker 76 He questioned why we were talking to him. We explained that his name had come up in the investigation.

Speaker 41 Now, investigators asked him directly. Did you have any

Speaker 41 involvement whatsoever in this incident?

Speaker 41 In what

Speaker 41 incident with Tim and Tanna?

Speaker 76 No, no.

Speaker 76 We asked if he'd be willing to give his cheek swabs and fingerprints to us, and he agreed to.

Speaker 54 Tony also agreed to take a polygraph.

Speaker 14 So investigators took him down to the sheriff's station, performed a cheek swab, and had him take that polygraph, and then they placed him in an interview room.

Speaker 113 I'm sure you want to know how you did? Yep. Okay.

Speaker 113 You did not pass. Okay?

Speaker 113 It was very clear when it came to the questions regarding Tim and Tanna's death that you are you're lying. You continue to deny and lie,

Speaker 113 and we will show you the evidence that we have.

Speaker 113 It's not going to look good for you.

Speaker 113 That makes sense? Well, it makes sense.

Speaker 113 I don't believe that I could have done something like that.

Speaker 31 And did he actually fail it? Yes.

Speaker 76 So they confronted Tony and explained that he was the match to the semen of the DNA that was left at the crime scene.

Speaker 113 Your semen that was found on her body at the murder scene. I still won't buy it.
It doesn't matter if you buy it, Tony. I get it.
I get it. You need to explain it.

Speaker 76 And what I found interesting was he never said, hang on, guys, you're talking to the wrong person. That's not me.

Speaker 76 He just kind of sat there and was like, I don't understand.

Speaker 84 Did he ever say anything that would suggest that maybe he did remember doing something?

Speaker 76 So, Tony took a long time to kind of get going.

Speaker 113 But once he did get going, it's gonna sound stupid, but

Speaker 77 I never knew I did it.

Speaker 113 Okay,

Speaker 42 August 11th, 2022.

Speaker 53 At the sheriff's office, investigators led Tony Hayes to an interview room and asked him questions about the murders of Tim Mumbrew and Tana Togstad.

Speaker 27 That is where he first mentioned what he called clicks or blurbs from the night of the murders, memories of some sort.

Speaker 113 Over the years, little by little,

Speaker 113 you know, I'd see a little click here and there, but

Speaker 113 that I was wondering if I had something to do with it. But I'll tell you straight up, and I'm not lying, that I don't believe that I would do that.

Speaker 32 But then he recalled going on a binger that night and ending up at Tana's house.

Speaker 112 I remember the house.

Speaker 113 I remember the. You remembered that house?

Speaker 112 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 113 Remember the steps. I remembered a...
like a barbell or something like that.

Speaker 76 Which, when you look at the crime scene photos, there's a dumbbell in the bedroom.

Speaker 113 What's another blurb?

Speaker 113 I remember walking down the road.

Speaker 113 I got into my truck

Speaker 113 and drove home.

Speaker 2 Could that be the truck Tana's sister saw driving away late that night?

Speaker 63 But even as his memories seemed to incriminate him, Tony remained adamant.

Speaker 8 He could not have done this.

Speaker 113 I don't remember nothing about hurting any people.

Speaker 59 Investigators pressed him for a possible motive.

Speaker 113 You were never attracted to Tana when you saw her? No.

Speaker 113 Never wanted to date her, never jealous of some guys that were dating her. No.

Speaker 14 Tony was dating Jodi at the time and denied any attraction to Tana, but then he started describing what sounded like a motive of sorts.

Speaker 84 It happened when Tony was just seven years old.

Speaker 84 His dad had been racing snowmobiles with Tana's dad and another friend, and suddenly the belt on Tony's dad's snowmobile blew, and he was hit by the snowmobile coming up behind him.

Speaker 113 Killed my dad instantly. The third guy

Speaker 113 coming up ran that guy over. It was a horrible accident.

Speaker 69 Only Tana's dad survived, though he died a few years later.

Speaker 42 His father's death said Tony resurfaced 14 years after the fact on the night of the murders.

Speaker 113 I was drunk

Speaker 113 and all I could think about was that accident. I didn't go there to hurt anybody.
I didn't.

Speaker 113 But I honestly can tell you that I don't know

Speaker 113 what started, what happened, what started it all. I don't.
What took you so long in this room

Speaker 113 to tell us the story about your dad and the snowmobile and Tana's dad being involved. Because I didn't want it to sound like I had this planned.
Because I didn't.

Speaker 4 Planned or not,

Speaker 41 investigators felt they had enough.

Speaker 113 It's 1:39, Tony.

Speaker 113 I have to place you under arrest for the homicide of Tana Togsted

Speaker 113 and Tim Mubre. Yes.
Okay.

Speaker 8 Investigators were convinced they finally had their man.

Speaker 48 Tony's family was blindsided.

Speaker 29 Our youngest son messaged me in the afternoon and

Speaker 29 said that the cops were at our house. And I couldn't even drive down my road that I live on because I had it all blocked off.

Speaker 62 Did you, Tracy, have to somehow deal with that question

Speaker 95 that you might be married to and living with a man who had done a very, very, very terrible thing all those years ago?

Speaker 29 No.

Speaker 62 Not even when they got the DNA in comparison with the semen that they were.

Speaker 78 In my heart,

Speaker 29 I know he did not do this. There is no possible way he could have ever done something like that.
So, no.

Speaker 45 The investigators talked to Jodi, too, of course.

Speaker 103 Well, the first thing I said was,

Speaker 120 no, you have the wrong guy.

Speaker 120 You have the wrong guy.

Speaker 32 Back in 1992, Jodi and Tony had only just moved in together.

Speaker 22 And yes, the murder happened nearby, but...

Speaker 84 Did you notice any changes in Tony's behavior after that?

Speaker 120 No.

Speaker 4 No, nothing.

Speaker 120 Nothing at all.

Speaker 111 But then landing with a sickening thud,

Speaker 11 that DNA.

Speaker 84 And Tony placing himself at Tana's house?

Speaker 8 Remembering that barbell?

Speaker 42 The snowmobile accident?

Speaker 117 Why do you think those things came out of his mouth?

Speaker 32 And what do you think it all meant?

Speaker 26 He didn't say any of those things until he had proclaimed his innocent a hundred times and was shown pictures and videos.

Speaker 26 They repeatedly told him he must have done it. He did it.
He did it. They kept coming down harder on him.

Speaker 10 Tony's family knew they needed help, and they turned to defense attorneys John Birdsall and Nicole Mueller.

Speaker 121 Usually when we get contacted, we get contacted by maybe one family member.

Speaker 70 And the interesting thing was, is that

Speaker 122 everybody believed in Tony Hayes' innocence so much, all his family, all his friends, that we had a conference call of people that wanted to help him financially to hire us.

Speaker 20 On that conference call, there were 55 people.

Speaker 46 And

Speaker 69 right there, before I even met Tony, I was like, there's something going on here.

Speaker 75 There's something wrong with this picture.

Speaker 68 Bert Sahl and Mahler got to work that summer of 2022, trying to get their heads around 30 years of records they received from the prosecution.

Speaker 107 It took months. It was almost as if they just brought a truck with a bunch of boxes and dumped it out on the front lawn and said, there you go, work it out.

Speaker 67 And in the middle of all that working out, they read about the sheer depravity of the crimes.

Speaker 122 This is not

Speaker 122 somebody who just got drunk and had a bad night, like the interrogators tried to suggest to Tony. Something else was going on here.

Speaker 42 Which, it seemed to them, fit those other suspects.

Speaker 4 Remember?

Speaker 41 The suspects we've told you about.

Speaker 20 Basically, there were three there.

Speaker 33 Three? Three.

Speaker 119 Yeah.

Speaker 107 Glendon Coker, Lane Shields, and Jeffrey Thial.

Speaker 41 But remember, all three had been pretty thoroughly investigated, and all of them were cleared.

Speaker 84 In Teal's case, by his own DNA, which excluded him back in 1996.

Speaker 48 But 26 years later, thanks to familiar DNA technology, it identified his nephew Tony Hayes as the likely killer.

Speaker 23 So now, pretrial, a legal skirmish began.

Speaker 53 Defense versus prosecution.

Speaker 10 The defense wanted to claim Jeff Thiel was not excluded from all the blood evidence at the crime scene, and because of that, remained a potential suspect.

Speaker 80 Wapaca County DA Cat Turner objected.

Speaker 117 Jeff Thiel seems like an obvious suspect to go after.

Speaker 84 He's dead. He was a bad guy.

Speaker 119 So

Speaker 119 he had already been excluded in 1996.

Speaker 42 The judge sided with the defense.

Speaker 65 So

Speaker 14 investigators decided.

Speaker 76 Let's show for a third time that he's been eliminated. And that way the defense can't use Jeff Thiel

Speaker 76 as the person who committed these crimes.

Speaker 58 But testing Jeff Thiel's DNA wasn't easy.

Speaker 10 He was six feet under.

Speaker 71 Which brings us back to that gloomy day in the cemetery.

Speaker 119 So we asked the court to allow us to exhume Jeff Teal. We did.

Speaker 97 Hey, weirdos, I'm Elena and I'm Ash, and we are the host of Morbid Podcast.

Speaker 18 Each week, we dive into the dark and fascinating world of true crime, spooky history, and the unexplained.

Speaker 100 From infamous killers and unsolved mysteries to haunted places and strange legends, we cover it all with research, empathy, humor, and a few creative expletives.

Speaker 101 It's smart, it's spooky, and it's just the right amount of weird.

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Speaker 71 The man in this casket had kept his secrets to himself for almost 30 years.

Speaker 48 But Jeff Teal was about to give one up.

Speaker 119 We rushed the testing. The DNA analyst worked on nothing but that until he had the analysis complete and again excluded Jeff Teal from all of the blood evidence that was available.

Speaker 41 All of the other evidence, prosecutors said, pointed straight at Tony Hayes, who was due to stand trial for murder in just two weeks.

Speaker 68 But when the prosecution revealed the new evidence, Tony's attorneys argued they didn't have time to prepare a response.

Speaker 77 And the judge agreed with the defense.

Speaker 10 He ruled that if the trial went ahead, the prosecution could not tell the jury about any DNA evidence involving Jeff Teal.

Speaker 21 Did you think that was a good decision?

Speaker 119 No, I did not.

Speaker 119 And we very, very, very, very, very strongly argued to the court that it was inappropriate because everyone in the room, with the exception of the jury, knew that Jeff Thiel had been excluded as a potential contributor to any of the biological evidence.

Speaker 73 Tough luck, said the defense.

Speaker 122 They had years to do this.

Speaker 62 And they were trying to act like they were the victims.

Speaker 122 And even the judges, like, that's really, he used the word twice, disingenuous.

Speaker 68 For the prosecutors, Tana and Tim's families, it meant an agonizing choice.

Speaker 67 Go to trial with a weaker case, as they saw it?

Speaker 4 Or set a new trial date, who knew when, with a stronger case.

Speaker 39 In the end, they decided to go for it.

Speaker 10 Tana's friend, Jill.

Speaker 25 They said the case is strong enough, we will go forward.

Speaker 109 And so on July 17th, 2025, it began.

Speaker 84 One of the biggest trials in Wapaca County history.

Speaker 27 Finally, a jury could deliver justice, said Tennis friends and family.

Speaker 62 What was the most important thing in your mind that they had against him?

Speaker 19 Well, the confession was huge to me.

Speaker 30 I mean, it was just like, wow, it's on tape.

Speaker 17 There were things that

Speaker 17 he said that

Speaker 17 unless you did it, you don't make that kind of stuff up.

Speaker 18 No, he wouldn't know.

Speaker 117 Did you feel a kind of weight on you as you're trying to bring this case to a successful conclusion?

Speaker 119 Absolutely. This is a small, small town, and you want, as the prosecutor, to get justice for those

Speaker 103 people

Speaker 119 who you care about.

Speaker 15 For three decades,

Speaker 123 this crime went unsolved.

Speaker 2 Assistant Attorney General Amy Otani opened for the state.

Speaker 123 For three decades, the person that committed these crimes believed he would never get caught botany told the jury that tony hay stabbed tana and tim in the early morning hours of march 21st 1992 and she said the prosecution had the receipts so what ties tony hays to this crime his semen on tana's body his handprint in blood on tana's door his own memories of killing Tim and Tana.

Speaker 48 The handprint evidence first, found on the door, for years a bloody emblem of this case.

Speaker 41 A forensic analyst for the state crime lab testified she was able to make a match to Tony Hayes.

Speaker 124 Item AB FRD2 was identified to the left palm of Tony Garrett Hayes.

Speaker 124 AB FRD3 was identified to the left palm of Tony Garrett Hayes.

Speaker 2 How confident can you be in a handprint?

Speaker 119 I believe they're reliable.

Speaker 25 However,

Speaker 119 I would not feel confident if

Speaker 119 that was the only evidence.

Speaker 59 It wasn't.

Speaker 109 Remember that male DNA on Tana's body?

Speaker 41 Over 30 years, it had been seriously depleted by repeated testing.

Speaker 42 But new testing methods require very few cells. So when the analysts retested the DNA for investigation, they used the minuscule amounts that remained.

Speaker 62 But were you confident there was enough,

Speaker 95 even at that level, that they could get an accurate result?

Speaker 119 From speaking with our genetics DNA analysts, I was confident.

Speaker 10 It's a principle of DNA testing that there cannot be 100% certainty.

Speaker 85 So the prosecutors called a DNA analyst with the Wisconsin State Crime Lab, who had worked out an exact probability to show it most certainly was Tony Hayes' DNA.

Speaker 125 The randomized probability, the profile would not be

Speaker 125 less common than one in 234 quintillion.

Speaker 30 Okay.

Speaker 124 And that's 234 followed by 18 zeros, right?

Speaker 83 Correct.

Speaker 8 In other words, the likelihood of the DNA on Tana's body being from anyone other than Tony Hayes was astronomically small.

Speaker 38 But perhaps the most compelling evidence came from Tony Hayes himself during that marathon interrogation.

Speaker 113 I remember getting into the scuffle. You're in a scuffle with who? With Tim.

Speaker 67 Would you call it a confession?

Speaker 119 I would call it an admission.

Speaker 119 I don't know that he confessed to everything, but he did acknowledge remembering committing the crime.

Speaker 73 Prosecutors played that interview for jurors, all five plus hours of it.

Speaker 8 They heard Tony recall fragments from that night.

Speaker 113 Whatever

Speaker 113 happened

Speaker 113 that him and I started tussling, I'm pretty sure she was the one that said, what the f? And that's when I hit her. Okay.

Speaker 113 And

Speaker 113 then I was, you know, fighting with

Speaker 113 Tim.

Speaker 113 And then you go back to her.

Speaker 113 I must have.

Speaker 20 He

Speaker 119 said that he recalled some details of the order that Tim and Tana were killed in, and he said he remembered a knife.

Speaker 113 There was a knife. I remember having a hold of his arm,

Speaker 113 and we tussled,

Speaker 113 and then

Speaker 119 I had the knife. He said he remembered trying to have sex with her.

Speaker 113 Had sex with her. What made you...
Okay, I'm sorry. Keep going.

Speaker 113 She started to stir, and I had to have stabbed her.

Speaker 110 And this, as the interview was ending.

Speaker 113 I remember

Speaker 113 thinking, holy,

Speaker 113 what did I do?

Speaker 73 In the end, the prosecutors told the jurors it was the weight of all the evidence that pointed to Tony Hayes.

Speaker 119 Despite living a seemingly law-abiding life for 30 years, he remembered and he knew what he was hiding.

Speaker 18 He knew what he had done.

Speaker 119 I'm confident

Speaker 119 you'll find him guilty.

Speaker 47 Not so fast, said the defense.

Speaker 65 The prosecution had it all wrong.

Speaker 122 When they lie and manipulate to get someone to make a statement, that is not discovering the truth.

Speaker 75 That's planting it.

Speaker 43 Tracy Hayes dealt with the trial just as she had dealt with the years of heartache since her husband's arrest in 2022.

Speaker 6 She took it day by day, going to court, sitting right behind her husband, stoic and silent.

Speaker 30 We were told we couldn't talk to him.

Speaker 29 I couldn't give him a hug.

Speaker 29 Couldn't tell him I love him.

Speaker 78 Anything.

Speaker 82 What'd you do?

Speaker 29 I knew he was there. He knew I was right behind him.

Speaker 68 And she listened intently to defense attorney John Birdsall.

Speaker 121 What kind

Speaker 74 of a sick,

Speaker 85 twisted, psychopathic person

Speaker 62 would commit a crime like this?

Speaker 7 Not gentle Tony Hayes.

Speaker 70 The state had the wrong man, he declared, thanks to a deeply flawed investigation.

Speaker 121 You're going to see

Speaker 121 the utterly botched crime scene collection of both fingerprints and DNA and blood for that matter.

Speaker 107 And it's like once you have a compromised crime scene.

Speaker 75 How do you trust anything from that scene?

Speaker 107 It's just not possible.

Speaker 109 That door, for instance, with handprint evidence on it, other prints were on it as well.

Speaker 85 Prints that should never have been there, said Birdsall.

Speaker 121 One of the detectives, the main detectives, fingerprints on it.

Speaker 23 Fingerprints on the palm print or just on the door?

Speaker 4 On the door.

Speaker 11 What's more, the defense insisted, no one could be certain any of the prints on the door actually belonged to Tony.

Speaker 33 The problem is that it's subjective.

Speaker 107 And I'm not even going to call it a subjective science because it's not a science. But the whole point of trial, the analyst, she had to admit, she couldn't be 100%

Speaker 107 sure.

Speaker 68 And the DNA from the crime scene?

Speaker 9 Utterly unreliable, the defense attorneys argued.

Speaker 68 Its quality undone by repeated testing.

Speaker 41 and decades of storage.

Speaker 54 And so they said the state was driven to extreme measures, examining DNA residue in tubes and spin baskets.

Speaker 93 So they're just retesting their old equipment, basically.

Speaker 46 As well, the defense alleged the state's analyst had added data to the DNA profile developed from the crime scene.

Speaker 82 Those were used to compare to Tony.

Speaker 95 Correct?

Speaker 107 Correct. We saw the DNA profile was a...
engineered profile. And when you are engineering facts, you're not finding the

Speaker 6 The analyst denied engineering facts.

Speaker 11 On redirect, he testified that he updated the DNA profile to reflect new standards.

Speaker 18 So you didn't add anything.

Speaker 82 Objection rule. Right?

Speaker 82 Objection rule.

Speaker 82 Correct.

Speaker 2 But the defense attorneys reserved their greatest outrage for that hours-long interrogation.

Speaker 41 They argued that any admissions from Tony Hayes were false, pried out of a frightened man by investigators using a controversial interrogation procedure called the Reed technique, which critics say uses manipulation and pressure tactics.

Speaker 113 You can't just keep saying, I don't want to remember this. I don't want this to be true.
That stuff's got to go. Now it's got to be, I did it, and now I've got to come up with the answers.

Speaker 113 There's a lot of people who are waiting for your explanation.

Speaker 113 I don't have one.

Speaker 113 I don't.

Speaker 48 And when Hayes insisted he did not commit the murders, the investigators kept at him, told him they knew what happened that night.

Speaker 113 We are telling you,

Speaker 113 and this is true, your semen was on her body, okay?

Speaker 113 So, regardless of whether you're the kind of guy that could ever do that, regardless of the guy doesn't want to believe he did that,

Speaker 113 when I say, Jay says, you did that, no dispute,

Speaker 113 how do you feel about that?

Speaker 113 Well, I sure wish I remembered it.

Speaker 41 As for those fragments of memory he'd told them about, those were flashbacks investigators said to a nightmare he'd been trying to suppress for decades.

Speaker 113 You know you stabbed her through the chest when you were having sex with her or right after.

Speaker 113 You see it, but you don't want to say it. But

Speaker 113 those are the facts. Yeah.

Speaker 113 And we can see that from the scene.

Speaker 46 The The defense called an expert in false confessions to the stand.

Speaker 82 He believed what they said, that he was, there was no question that he was there and that it was his semen, so now he had to figure out how that could have happened.

Speaker 2 Dr.

Speaker 9 David Thompson testified that when he evaluated Tony Hayes, he found him to be suggestible, vulnerable to the investigator's tactics.

Speaker 82 When you look at those personality characteristics,

Speaker 82 and then you look at the investigator's tendency to provide suggestive questions to him. That combination, I think, is very significant.

Speaker 122 When they lie and manipulate to get someone to make a statement, that is not discovering the truth.

Speaker 75 That's planting it.

Speaker 62 Well, but, you know, he's a grown man. He's not some kid.

Speaker 122 No, there's no buts about it.

Speaker 70 Okay?

Speaker 4 Those injuries.

Speaker 68 But the defense attorneys weren't done.

Speaker 9 Instead, they put a different man on trial, Jeff Thiel.

Speaker 11 Remember, the judge had ruled the jury could not hear the prosecution's DNA evidence, which they said excluded Thial as a suspect.

Speaker 42 And now the defense went after Teal hard.

Speaker 38 They called his ex-wife, Marie Stanchik, to testify to his bad character.

Speaker 82 I do. Did he ever physically hit you?

Speaker 123 Yes.

Speaker 124 I was pregnant with Heather then, and we were on our way to Hamas classes. And he hit me in the mouth, and I got a fat lip.

Speaker 107 and then just months after Tana and Tim were murdered this he'd held a gun in my face and said he was going to use it on me and she told law enforcement Jeff Teal told me that he was going to kill me and get away with it just like the Togstead mumbrew homicide that's not somebody having they told jurors Jeff Teal had reason to murder Tim and Tana Tim had reported Teal for a theft at the foundry, and Tana had rejected his advances.

Speaker 122 So we have direct connection and direct motive to both the victims.

Speaker 12 How did it go down on that long ago night?

Speaker 8 The defense leaned on the tale told by convicted criminal Glendon Gowker, that he, Gowker, drove two men to Tana's house that night, and one of them, an Irish-looking guy, the guy the defense decided was Jeff Teal.

Speaker 27 Surely there was more than enough reasonable doubt, the defense told jurors, to find Tony Hayes not guilty of the murders.

Speaker 62 If you pause or hesitate

Speaker 74 when considering all of the manipulation,

Speaker 69 mistakes, cover-ups, lying that you heard in this trial that I didn't make up,

Speaker 93 if that makes you pause or hesitate,

Speaker 46 you know your duty.

Speaker 59 Now

Speaker 27 it was the jury's turn.

Speaker 52 There's always more to the story.

Speaker 38 To go behind the scenes of tonight's episode, listen to our Talking Dateline series with Keith and Andrea available Wednesday.

Speaker 14 In August 2025, A jury of 12 at the Wapaca County Courthouse went out to decide if Tony Hayes murdered Tana and Tim.

Speaker 56 Tim's sister Tina leaned on her faith.

Speaker 50 We walked around the courthouse seven times praying. I was praying for God's justice.

Speaker 2 Tana's brother Rick on his 33-year journey for justice was trying to stay calm.

Speaker 63 When they went out, were you feeling relatively confident at least?

Speaker 19 I felt as though we were going to get a good verdict.

Speaker 45 Even though the defense had persuaded the judge to throw out all the DNA evidence clearing alternate suspect Jeff Teal, so the jury never got to hear about it, Tim's family remained upbeat.

Speaker 93 I was feeling real confident because

Speaker 20 I thought the prosecution did an amazing job.

Speaker 100 We thought for sure we had a slam dunk.

Speaker 41 Jurors would later reveal that when their deliberations began, six jurors believed Tony Hayes was guilty and six not guilty.

Speaker 29 It was extremely hard to know that his life was in somebody else's hands.

Speaker 77 Tony's family and friends were all too aware that a guilty verdict had to be unanimous.

Speaker 13 Was I confident when they went in?

Speaker 109 You can't be confident.

Speaker 13 I'm confident that he's

Speaker 14 not the guy,

Speaker 14 but it's not me, it's them.

Speaker 26 Of course you're worried and you're scared,

Speaker 119 but I feel like it had been proven.

Speaker 95 But then the days went by, right?

Speaker 56 One after the other.

Speaker 91 That meant that they were really

Speaker 29 looking this over.

Speaker 13 Among Tana and Tim's family members and friends, anxiety was setting in.

Speaker 25 I was more and more nervous the longer the jury stayed out.

Speaker 100 You could hear those guys arguing in the room. The jury.

Speaker 94 And you could tell they were arguing about something, but we didn't know what.

Speaker 2 On Monday, August 11th, 2025, day four of deliberations, the moment of truth was at hand.

Speaker 45 The jury came back, and the judge read its verdict.

Speaker 35 We, the jury, find the defendant Tony Garrett Hayes not guilty.

Speaker 29 When they came back and they said not guilty,

Speaker 29 that was beautiful.

Speaker 2 Tony's friends, Joe, Jason, and Liz.

Speaker 74 I cried.

Speaker 90 Tears of joy.

Speaker 56 They got it right.

Speaker 26 Thank God the jury.

Speaker 115 I was just thinking of Tony, right? I can't imagine what he'd been through, you know, during that three years of being put in that position, right?

Speaker 57 Tony's wife, Tracy, would get her husband back.

Speaker 109 What was it like to give him a big hug when he finally came out of there?

Speaker 29 It was awesome to

Speaker 29 take him home to our children.

Speaker 120 He got to see his grandpa.

Speaker 29 His grandpa said that was the best day of his life.

Speaker 41 Of course, it was a different reaction on the other side of the courtroom.

Speaker 63 What that was like when the judge read the verdict?

Speaker 19 I couldn't believe he even said it.

Speaker 30 What?

Speaker 30 It's just like, wow.

Speaker 93 My heart just dropped. My stomach turned.

Speaker 50 A complete shock that 12 people could be that deceived.

Speaker 25 Took you outside of your body almost.

Speaker 15 Pure rage.

Speaker 18 I couldn't breathe.

Speaker 11 Today, Tony is back home with his family, breathing the clean air of Wiawega's farmland, feeding his cows.

Speaker 2 He's a free man.

Speaker 53 His wife, Tracy, feels free, too.

Speaker 60 So what now?

Speaker 29 Just live day by day.

Speaker 29 Let's see what happens.

Speaker 29 See where God takes us.

Speaker 95 How are you and Tony adjusting to this?

Speaker 95 Good.

Speaker 16 He finally gets the sunshine and the fresh air.

Speaker 71 Have you gone fishing lately?

Speaker 56 No, not yet.

Speaker 78 We will, though.

Speaker 91 He owes me that.

Speaker 43 On the advice of his attorney, Tony himself did not speak with us.

Speaker 60 His criminal case is over.

Speaker 13 Hard to accept for Tim and Tana's family members and friends.

Speaker 16 Those people on that jury let out

Speaker 16 a man that butchered two people. And he is now walking around, going to have family time, play with his grandkids.

Speaker 16 Tanna never got to have a kid. Tanna never had a life.

Speaker 52 It's a hard pill to swallow.

Speaker 78 Yeah.

Speaker 19 Was he found innocent? He was found not guilty.

Speaker 81 Tanna's brother Rick, who lives just three miles from Tony,

Speaker 42 filed a civil wrongful death lawsuit against him said it isn't about financial gain

Speaker 19 I don't want his house and I don't want his retirement acknowledgement is what I want going to be expensive that acknowledgement

Speaker 72 Rick set up a go fund me page and meantime the crime against Hannah and Tim remains officially unsolved

Speaker 81 even though investigators and prosecutors believe they know the answer.

Speaker 42 Nothing to do about it now.

Speaker 30 You're going to be able to get used to it, live with it?

Speaker 19 I don't know if I'll ever get used to it. Sometimes not knowing is better than knowing.

Speaker 38 That was a piece of wisdom right there.

Speaker 109 As Tana and Tim's families and friends try to make peace with the outcome, they take some comfort from their memories of the vibrant young couple taken far too soon,

Speaker 57 who lived long enough to find each other and fall in love.

Speaker 36 That's all for now. I'm Lester Holt.

Speaker 35 Thanks for joining us.

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