Return to the Lake

Hey, friends, Ted Danson here, and I want to let you know about my new podcast. It's called Where Everybody Knows Your Name, with me, Ted Danson, and Woody Harrelson, sometimes.
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And trust me, it's always a great hang when Woody's there. So why wait? Listen to Where Everybody Knows Your Name, wherever you get your podcasts.
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Tonight on Dateline. So many people still think about them.
I wish I could tell them. I miss you so much.
Whoever has my children, please bring them home. It was the story that broke America's heart.
She said a man forced her out of the car and sped off with the children. Susan is distraught.
She's crying. The tears seem genuine.
I believe David Ward was coming out of her mouth. Then the news no one could believe.
Susan Smith has been arrested. Some of our agents were just sobbing when the car was pulled out of the water.
Now, Susan Smith breaks decades of silence. Should she be released? Susan doesn't pose a danger to society.
She lied and manipulated everybody. They can't let her out.
You don't believe that Susan Smith is remotely remorseful? Right. A powerful new interview with a father whose loss still aches.
You're not going to make me bitter. You're not going to make me mad at the world.
You're not going to win. A mother's

unthinkable crime. A father's unforgettable courage.
The case of Susan Smith. Tonight,

a revealing new look. I'm Lester Holt, and this is Dateline.

Here's Craig Melvin with Return to the Lake.

A manhunt is spreading across this country for a man who pulled a carjacking Tuesday night.

A mother's nightmare came true in South Carolina.

Tips continue to come in, but there's no sign of the 14-month and 3-year-old brothers.

Tonight, the tragedy that gripped a nation 30 years ago and still won't let go. Why do you think people still care so much? Because we all united with the hope that we would find those little boys.
Two brothers missing for nine agonizing days, a nationwide manhunt with a heartbreaking end. And the mother at the center of it all speaking out for the first time in decades.
While the father continues his fight for justice. Would you have been better off had the state executed her? Wow.

For myself, yes.

Because I wouldn't have to be dealing with what's coming up now and in the future.

It all started in the tiny town of Union, South Carolina. A rural community, textiles and farming were the big businesses there.
It had just a few traffic lights. Church-going neighbors would wave on their morning walks.
The people here are friendly. Harold Thompson grew up in Union and is now the

mayor. They're willing to help in any type of situation.
You know, we got a lot of volunteers. People get along with each other.
No big problems or issues. But that all changed the night of October 25th, 1994.

Around 9 p.m., a young woman

banged frantically on the door of this house.

Homeowner Shirley MacLeod answered. She just wasn't physically able to hardly stand up and took her to the couch and asked her to tell me again what she said.
And she said, he's taking my children. He's got my children.
Shirley's son immediately called 911.

Some guy jumped into a red light with her car.

And he's got the kids?

Yes, ma'am, and her car. I don't, she's real hysterical.

Get them going, Pam. I got two kids.

The woman at the door was Susan Smith, a shy, quiet 23-year-old brunette who worked as a secretary at a local textile company. Tiffany Moss knew her from school.
What was she like in high school? She was just, you know, nothing extra popular or anything like that, but, you know, she was just your friendly high school girl. Susan and her husband David lived in Union and had two little boys, Michael, three, and Alex, 14 months.
They were just your typical little boy, toddler, you know, precious, playful, sweet. But now they were missing.
Sheriff Howard Wells raced to the scene.

And when I walked in, Susan was seated on the sofa there in the living room.

He talked to Dateline in 1995. I knew time was of the essence, and so we went right

directly into the informational stage of trying to find out what had happened.

Susan told him she was driving with her boys that night to visit a friend named Mitch Sinclair and stopped at a red light. She said that's when a black man suddenly accosted her with a gun.
After giving her statement, Susan called her husband David. What do you remember about that? I remember it was around nine o'clock.
And Sheriff Wells said that your children have been taken and we're at the McLeod residence. You need to get here.
And when you get there, what do you find? Susan is in their living room, and when I walk in, she's just distraught. She's crying.
What was she saying about what happened? That I was at a red light and that a black man jumped in the car, made me drive, and then forced me out of the car and drove off with them and still in the car. The sheriff put out an APB while David and Susan went on camera to appeal for help.
I was stopped at a red light, and just out of nowhere, this black guy came up and just opened the door and jumped in the car, and he had a gun. And he had it pointed in my side and told me to drive, and so I did.
And when I tried to ask him why he was doing this or whatever, he just told me to shut up or kill me. So I just kept driving, driving.
My babies were in the back seat and they were crying. And I tried to tell them everything was going to be okay.
She said she drove a few miles until the man told her to stop. He told me to get out.
And I said, well, can I get my children? And he said, no. He said, they said, I don't have time for that.
And they were just crying. Do you want to make a plea to if anybody sees this story or this person? Yes, if anybody sees anything that looks unusual.
I mean, this is a black guy with two white children. Obviously, they're not his.
You want to make a plea as well? I just, if anybody sees anything whatsoever, please contact your local police department and inform them if anything looks unusual. Please.
For Sheriff Wells, it was an all-hands-on-deck moment. He sprang into action, ordering his deputies to hunt down the carjacker and find Michael and Alex.

We are hoping that he's going to be as good as his word, that he will not harm the children since he did not harm her.

But what police hoped would be a quick search stretched into nine days that captivated the country.

We'll take you inside the investigation with newly unearthed audio tapes.

Revealing jailhouse letters and exclusive interviews.

I used to sit there and look at the back of her head and think about killing her.

You wanted her dead.

I did.

All from those nine fateful days

and the unspeakable crime that left everyone asking one question.

Why?

Why on earth?

It was intense for those nine days, but then it went thermonuclear.

In the early morning hours of October 26th, deputies scoured South Carolina searching for a kidnapper.

Said it was a black male driving a burgundy protege. Affirmative.
He had two juveniles with him. From what I understood, these were small children.
Sheriff Wells asked Susan for a more detailed description, and she was happy to comply. She came in between 3 and 4 in the morning met with a composite artist on day one.
Susan described a tall black man 30 to 40 years old wearing a knit hat. The sketch was disseminated widely throughout the state.
Jeff Bailey is the current sheriff of Union. Back then he was a young deputy just starting out.
And we were looking through files and probation probe who had a criminal history of child molestation or crimes against children. And we were trying to put that face together with pictures that we had.
I was six months into my second job. As daylight broke, reporter Heather Hoops Matthews drove into work at WIS-TV, the NBC affiliate in Columbia, South Carolina.
How did you actually hear about the case initially? I walked into the newsroom in the morning and the assignment desk said, we hear there are two children missing in Union. Grab a photographer and go.
What are you hearing? What are folks saying? At that time, I remember thinking how shocking that was. You know, that's terrible.
Surely we're going to find the kids. As Heather and the other local reporters began digging around Union, they started to learn a lot more about Susan and David Smith.
What were your impressions of them initially? I thought that he was very loving to her.

I saw him put his arm around her, and I just remember thinking how nice that was.

Both Susan and David had grown up in Union in modest, church-going families.

How did you meet?

We were both working at a local grocery store.

Winn-Dixie?

Yes, Winn-Dixie.

And then we just got to talking like teenagers do. Small talk soon led to dating.
And the young couple married in 1991. Susan was 19.
David was 20. And then Michael was born.
And I was head over heels. My first son.
Then came little Alex. Tell me about Michael.
Tell me about Alex. Michael was the more sensitive one.
His feelings would get hurt easy when you scolded him. He was very protective of Alex at the daycare.
Even at home, Alex was more rambunctious, more mischievous. Susan later left her job at Winn-Dixie and got a position as a secretary to the CEO of a major textile company in town.
David says she was an attentive mom. She always made sure they were well-dressed.
Whoever was taking care of them while we were at work, she made sure they were in good hands. But not long after Alex was born, David and Susan's marriage started to fall apart.
I was a lousy husband. You know, there was infidelity.
But there was, you know, infidelity on her part too, after mine, but... You were both cheating on each other.
Right. Yeah.
The couple separated in the spring of 1994. By the next fall, David had a new girlfriend, Tiffany.
Yes, the same Tiffany who knew Susan in high school. We met after my first year of college.
Okay. When I started working at Winn-Dixie.
And he was the assistant manager there. What drew you two to each other? I just remember the day that I started and when I started working at Winn-Dixie.
And he was the assistant manager there. What drew you to each other? I just remember the day that I started and when I walked in the door and I saw him stocking shelves.
And I was like, hmm. Susan had started dating someone else too, Tom Finley, a co-worker at that textile company.
But with the boys missing, David knew he had to be there to support his wife any way he could.

I just want to hug him so fast and tell him I love him.

As Susan and David got their message out to the media,

deputies and volunteers widened their search to the woods surrounding Union with bloodhounds on the ground and helicopters in the air. Everybody in the state of South Carolina knew about it as soon as it happened.
Mark Keel is now the chief of the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division, known as SLED. But in 1994, he was attending law school and working as a pilot.
So he joined the search team. And we were up flying the next morning and looking for that, searching for that vehicle.
You're flying around South Carolina. What are you guys looking for? Where are you looking? We started from where she was carjacked and we were flying every route that you can imagine.
The manpower is overwhelming. Reporter Heather Hoops Matthews began following along with the search teams.

My videographer flew in a helicopter with them as they flew over Long Lake,

and I stayed down on the boat ramp. What were your folks at law enforcement saying initially

to you? They said they were searching that area because it was close to where she called for help,

you know, knocked on the door. As the search expanded, so did the media coverage.

Thank you. 250.
The streets were lined with satellite trucks. A carjacker with a gun took her car and with it, her two small children.
The gunman did not farm them or ask for money. Soon, it will be 24 hours since they last saw their mother.
Union was now in a hot media spotlight, but still with no sign of those little boys. With time slipping away, police released a new bit of video to jumpstart their investigation.
Would it work? Explore the world's hidden wonders on the Atlas Obscura podcast. A village in India where everyone's name is a song, a boiling river in the Amazon,

a spacecraft cemetery in the middle of the ocean. Every day, the Atlas Obscura podcast will blow your mind in 15 minutes.
You can find it on the SiriusXM app, Pandora,

or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode.

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Terms and conditions apply. October 28th, 1994, a Friday.
Michael and Alex Smith had been missing for three days.

The family released this video of Susan with the boys celebrating Alex's first birthday.

Look at it.

What did that do for the story?

I think the release of the images of Michael and Alex swiftly added to the interest in the story.

And I remember watching it in the satellite truck over and over and over and thinking, surely we're going to find Michael and Alex. What started as a small town carjacking is now a massive search, first spreading into four surrounding states, now nationwide.
Police are receiving calls from all over, one tip every minute. It hurts all the way to the heart.
And I'm a grandmother, and I said, what if that was my children? What if it was my grandbabies? Everyone in the community came to look for Michael and Alex. People were on horseback looking for them, and they were, you know, people just looking everywhere trying to help to find these kids.
While David stood by Susan, his new girlfriend Tiffany joined the search. What do you remember about that eight or nine day period? Just looking everywhere I went, looking for her car, looking for this composite drawing of this black man, looking for Michael and Alex.
I mean, that was all I was doing. Of course, then I started having to hide out myself, too, because there were certain media that were coming after me and harassing me.
Why were they harassing you? Because they had found out that I was the girlfriend. And so they started wanting to talk to me and see what I had to say.
Meanwhile, police blasted that sketch of the suspect everywhere. After the sketch was drawn and it was distributed, the black people of our community were our greatest asset.
They came forward and told us who they thought that looked like. One officer went to the home of a man who resembled the suspect.
We asked him where he was during this time, but it's so easy to check out. We checked it and he was where he said he was.
A big disappointment for investigators, but the tips kept pouring in. A robbery in a nearby state.
A man fitting the description of the carjacker has been spotted 100 miles north of Union in Salisbury, North Carolina. A sighting in a national park.
Someone gave a report of a child crying in a national forest in North Carolina. That was going on at the same time.
And a man seen running just miles from where the boys disappeared. Anything to give us a clue.
All of them turned up nothing. How low could you get in those choppers? You can get as low as you want to get.
We were generally flying, you know, 300 foot above the ground, up to 1,000. Were there moments where you did spot something, where you did see

something? No. I mean, we spotted cars that, you know, were the same color and, you know,

that were similar, but not what we were looking for. As they continued to pursue more than 700

tips, police developed other theories about the case. Could someone who knew Susan be behind the

kidnapping? They questioned friends and co-workers, including that new boyfriend of hers, Tom Finley. Family members, too.
You start finding out an abduction case, a high percentage are family abductions. You have to look at family to find out what is the motivation here, why, or who would have been behind it.
Investigators wondered whether Susan and David's pending divorce might have played a role. We had to look at all the possibilities of who may have been involved, of whom it would have benefited from abduction.
Including David Smith. Susan had custody of Michael and Alex.
Could David or someone else have conspired to have the boys kidnapped?

Everyone was a suspect in this case until we could narrow it to a single individual or whatever.

But anyone who may have had a motive, anyone who may have had contact with Susan,

who may have been a participant or whatever, sure, we looked at everybody.

Investigators gave David a polygraph test, which he passed. What did the sheriff, what did those investigators tell you privately about their theories, what they thought may have happened? I don't remember them really talking to me a whole lot after I took the polygraph and obviously passed, as they said, with flying colors.

Then suddenly, a new tip from 3,000 miles away.

And this one sounded different.

We're working on some very promising, exciting information right now,

and that's all I'm going to be able to say. Day six in the search for Michael and Alex Smith was Halloween, warm and sunny.
But fear hung in the air in Union as parents and kids headed out to trick-or-treat. They have a tradition of trick-or-treating in the downtown.
Michael Cogdo was a reporter for WYFF, the NBC affiliate in Greenville, South Carolina. That Halloween, people were hanging on to one another and one another's kids.
They thought there might be a threat afoot. I think everybody should stay close to their kids.
Keep an eye on them. Alongside the fear, he saw something he didn't expect.
One of the things we noticed, this is a

woman who has fingered a black man for this crime, and you would have thought it would have torn that

town apart. Instead, it brought people together.
There was such love, blacks and whites, arm in

arm, hand in hand, holding on to each other's kids. On the one-week anniversary, Sheriff Wells

has been Instead, it brought people together. There was such love, blacks and whites, arm in arm, hand in hand, holding on to each other's kids.
On the one-week anniversary, Sheriff Wells had nothing new to report. Well, we've looked at any possible motivation for this case, and we have not developed anything concrete.
What do you remember most about that period of time? The media. It was out of control.
Circus. They were camped out at her parents' house where we were staying.
They were camped out at the courthouse. They were trying

to follow us. I grew up in South Carolina and remember the extensive media coverage and the

endless waiting. I was a teenager and I I, like millions of other folks, for days on end, glued to the television, trying to figure out what happened to these little boys.
For you, day in, day out, the rollercoaster of emotions, how did you grapple with it? I just got up every day and did whatever somebody told me to do. If it was to go for an interview, if it was to take a polygraph.
He cooperated, hoping law enforcement would stop looking at him and find the carjacker. I guess I was trying to get more boots on the ground, as you say.
The national search for Michael and Alex continued, while local investigators worked their way down the list of Susan's family and friends. They focused on her relationship with Mitchell Sinclair, the man she said she was going to visit on the night of the carjacking.
Sheriff Wells was especially interested in Sinclair

after seeing an interview he did with a reporter for a current affair.

Truth's gonna come out.

What is the truth?

Tell everybody what the truth is.

Exactly what the sheriff says it is. Police questioned him several times.
Turned out, he wasn't even home that night. Sheriff, has Mitch Sinclair now been eliminated as a suspect investigation? I'm not going to say he is any more or any less than he ever has been because we still do not have the information we need in this case.
Investigators were also taking a close look at Susan as a mom and heard nothing but good things. They never saw those children dirty.
They never saw her spank her children. We never found one detrimental remark towards Susan about those children.
Then on the eighth day, a true glimmer of hope. At 3.30 a.m., a call came into the command center, a sighting of a young boy who matched the description of 14-month-old Alex riding in a car with South Carolina plates.
He'd been dropped off at a motel in Washington State. It's solid lead lead right now.
If it turns out to be the lead we need, it might give us the direction we need in this case. Sheriff Wells appeared elated.
We're working on some very promising, exciting information right now, and that's all I'm going to be able to say. Are you going to see? Susan and David rushed to the command center.
Three hours passed. The town of Union held its breath.
Then Sheriff Wells addressed the press once again. Our heart soared for a while that we were close to recovering the children in this case.
That did not happen. The news was crushing.
The little boy abandoned in Washington state was not Alex Smith after all.

It's very hard once you get your hopes up to come back and then see them die. Soon after, what everyone hoped would be a joyous appearance by Susan and David became yet another anguished plea.
I would like to say to whoever has my children that they please, I mean, please bring them home. I would like to take the time to plead to the American public that you please do not give up on these two little boys.
But almost as soon as Susan and David finished their nationally televised plea, the story took another turn.

That night, Dateline got a tip that crime lab technicians were headed to Susan's home.

Our cameras captured law enforcement going into the house.

They took photographs, examined paperwork, dusted apparently for fingerprints, and went into the crawlspace underneath the home. Can you tell us what you're doing? The search ended about two hours later with investigators carrying several paper bags out of the house.
To outsiders, it didn't look like investigators were any closer to answering the painful question, where were

Michael and Alex? But for insiders, the investigation was becoming laser-focused

on the only witness in the case, the woman saw a heartbreaking scene. Two young parents pleading for their children's safe return.
I want to say to my babies, that your mama loves you so much. But at the command center, Sheriff Wells had been verifying Susan's story.
And not everything checked out. There were questions about the traffic light.
She stated she was stopped at a red light at an intersection in Monarch, and there were no other cars around. Information from the Department of Public Safety had landed on Sheriff Wells' desk.
He learned there was no way that light could have turned red. That cannot be.
A car has to be at the opposing light in the intersection to make the light change. Without another car, the light would stay green.
The sheriff tried to keep his doubts about Susan's story under wraps, but other officers were coming to the same conclusion. What do you recall about how members of law enforcement were talking about the case? There was a lot of suspicion, I would say, as to what happened, especially after days that we had searched and looked.
Chief Keel, who'd been searching for clues by helicopter, says too much of it didn't make sense. Carjackings take place often, but generally you end up finding the vehicle.
So as days went by and we didn't find anything, the suspicion continued to grow. While retracing the steps Susan said she made that night,

investigators discovered something astonishing. That night, you were actually having her followed?

Yes. Why? Because I knew she was running around on me too.
So you have your girlfriend at the time

following your soon-to-be ex-wife? night that your boys go missing. Yes.
So we were wanting to try and catch her so he could countersue. And so I had put on my PI gear, my ball hat and everything, and sat in the car watching when she left work and had watched her when she went and picked the boys up from

daycare. Tiffany continued to follow her.
She saw Susan make several stops with the boys in the car. Then a little bit later, she went home.
And then I saw the boys. They were getting down out of the back seat, and she had Alex on her hip.
Tiffany then went to visit a friend nearby, and when she came back 45 minutes later, Susan's car was gone. So I kind of, you know, give up my PI search at that point.
Investigators couldn't find any witnesses who saw where Susan went that night. They were becoming more and more convinced she was hiding something.
So, they brought in SLED agent Peter Logan, a polygraph expert, to meet with Susan. We interviewed him back in 2000.
Susan Smith showed up with her family, and I introduced myself to her. Agent Logan quickly built a rapport with Susan and asked her if she would agree to a polygraph test.
She said yes. Then there comes a point where Susan says to you that she thought that she was probably a suspect.
When she said that to you, what did you think? I said, don't worry about it. I told her not to worry about it.
I was trying to, like, help her pass polygraph tests. I was telling her, like, to think about a field of daisies, an autumn day in the fall, to calm her down to pass the polygraph, because I wanted us to get past that.
When she first sat down with Agent Logan, he took it slowly. I realized that if Susan Smith didn't talk about this, that we may never know what really happened.
So my first polygraph that I did was to determine at that time whether or not the carjacking was truthful. He didn't tell her the results.
Instead, he said she'd done enough for the day and sent her home. But it didn't take long before rumors that Susan failed a polygraph circulated through the small town of Union.
When you had heard that she had failed one of those polygraph tests, what did you talk that up to? I didn't put a lot of weight into it. Because to me, she had just had her children, our children ripped away from her, snatched from her.
How in the world would she be able to pass the polygraph? Susan was supposed to come back the next day to continue the polygraph, but that didn't happen. She didn't want to come in for the interview, so I phoned her at home.
Agent Logan shared with Dateline this newly unearthed tape of that call. Hello, Susan? Hi, Kate.
Hey, how you doing? You doing okay? I'm hanging in there. Well, that's good.
I'm concerned about you and just wanted to know how you were doing. Well, I appreciate you calling.
That makes a lot. Then he brought up a rumor he'd heard that Susan told her mom she'd failed a polygraph.
He tried to reassure her, saying the results were inconclusive. You know, I don't want you to misunderstand anything or anything like that.
Yeah. So.
Well, it does worry me. Yeah.
And I'm trying to, try not to think about it. Yeah.
Well, you know, the bottom line is, and we talked, is sensitivity. Every mom who's missing her kiss got sensitivity.
He asked her to write down everything she could remember from that night. She agreed and said she'd meet with him again the next day.
I enjoy talking to you and hopefully you get some little help out of it. Oh, I do.
Okay. I walked out feeling a lot better than I did when I walked in.
Yeah, well, that's good. That's sort of the bottom line.
When Susan returned the next morning to continue a polygraph, Agent Logan gently explained that part of her story did not make sense, that the light would not have turned red. I said, is there some reason that you have not been truthful about this light and it happened somewhere else? It could have happened somewhere else.
She initially denied it. But then she said the agent was right.
The carjacking had happened somewhere else, 15 miles away, in a town called Carlisle. I said, well, let's go to Carlisle.
So I got her out in the car and I took her in the sled car. I said, now you tell me exactly where you were when the carjacker came out and got in your car.
And she had some hesitancy in actually picking out the exact location, but she did. He asked her why she didn't say it happened in Carlisle from the beginning.
Her explanation at that time was that, well, I knew I shouldn't have been in Carlisle, that people would question me, why was I in Carlisle riding around? She told him that when she was 18, she had an affair with a married man who used to live in Carlisle. She said we used to park in the woods down in this area, and that's what she went back.
By the time Susan and the agent left Carlisle, it had grown dark. So he told her to go home and write down exactly what happened at this new location.
I knew at that time in my my heart, that she would probably tell us the truth,

but I wasn't sure under what circumstances.

She trusted me, I thought at the time,

she trusted Sheriff Wells.

So Agent Logan alerted Sheriff Wells

that Susan had changed her story.

Then, they put their heads together

and came up with a plan for the next day,

a carefully orchestrated dance that would lead to an unimaginable admission. There was a shockwave.
It's like the place was struck by lightning. Explore the world's hidden wonders on the Atlas Obscura podcast, a village in India where everyone's name is a song,

a boiling river in the Amazon, a spacecraft cemetery in the middle of the ocean.

Every day, the Atlas Obscura podcast will blow your mind in 15 minutes.

You can find it on the SiriusXM app, Pandora, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And don't forget to follow the show

so you never miss an episode. Angels, soft and strong, budget friendly.
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November 3rd, 1994. For nine days, Americans had been glued to their TVs, hoping for the safe return of two young boys.
It's been real difficult. That morning, Susan and David Smith appeared on the Today Show.
I think what's kept me going more than anything is the lowered. The public had no idea Susan had changed her story, but it was clear feelings toward her were shifting.
Katie Couric asked about the police search of her home the night before. Were you there at the time, and do you know what they were looking for? No, ma'am, I was not there, and I do not know.
I did agree, sign a form for them to do that. I was aware they were going to do that.
How do you all feel when you hear that some members of the public think that you might have been involved? Well, my first reaction is it hurts to know that I would be accused or even thought that I would ever do anything to harm my children. David spoke directly to his boys.
Me and Mommy believe that you guys are okay and that you will be coming home soon. We're not going to give up until we find you.
Just hours after that interview, Susan handed Agent Pete Logan a written statement of her new version of the carjacking. Logan recorded their interview that day.
How do you feel today about it? It didn't happen there, but it happened somewhere. How do you feel? I mean, how are your feelings today? Well, I feel better now that that came out.
But it still worries me about anybody else. Agent Logan says he could tell she was getting tired.
It was time to set in motion the plan he and Sheriff Wells had worked out. He asked the sheriff to come into the interview room and explain that Susan had changed her story, pretending the sheriff didn't already know.
And so we sat in there for maybe a couple minutes and discussed it. And then I left under the pretext of somebody beeping me with the idea that the sheriff would talk to her to see how he made out.
Susan repeated her news story that the carjacking actually happened in Carlisle. That gave Sheriff Wells an opportunity to pounce.
I told her that we had that

intersection under surveillance. It was at a suspected drug drop site and that it could not

have happened there as she said. This was a bluff.
There was no surveillance. And she says,

why do you say that? And I told her, I said, there's no way because we would have seen it.

With that, Susan Smith completely lost it. She broke down, started sobbing.
She cried. She said she was so ashamed.
And then she asked for my gun. And I said, why would you want to do that? And she wanted to kill herself.
And I said, but why? And she said, you don't understand. My children are not all right.
That was the first incriminating statement that she had made. After nine days of intense investigation, hundreds of tips, and a search that consumed the country, Susan Smith finally told the truth.
She'd killed her two young boys. When I walked back in, Susan was on her knees

and crying hysterically with her head in the chair.

And the sheriff had told me that she had admitted

that she had let the car go in the lake

with her kids in the back seat.

They gave her a pen and paper,

and she wrote down her confession.

I dropped to the lowest when I allowed my children to go down that ramp into the water without me. She told the sheriff where to look for her car.
A few hours later, divers found it at the bottom of John D. Long Lake, two small bodies strapped in car seats in the back.
Sheriff Wells alerted the press. Susan Smith has been arrested and will be charged with two counts of murder in connection with the deaths of her children, Michael III and Alexander, 14 months.
There was a shockwave. It's like the place was struck by lightning.
This thunder went over that crowd. Shock.

How did you find out that she had confessed?

When Sheriff Wells announced it to the public.

That's the way I found out.

Did you think initially maybe this was some sort of mistake, obviously?

They've got the wrong person.

No.

My thoughts were just, what is he talking about?

I didn't think it was a mistake. I didn't think it was correct.
I was just like, what is he talking about? You couldn't even get your head around it. No.
The question of what happened to the boys had been answered. But why it happened would take years to untangle.
A highly emotional trial would rivet the nation

and have neighbors taking silence.

What were people saying leading up to the trial?

You know, there was the question of,

do you think she should die for killing them?

Family secrets would spill out,

setting the stage for an emotional showdown.

You don't kill your children for what happened to you.

I wanted an eye for an eye. I know that what I did was so horrible.
It was a heartbreaking end to an already tragic story. The vehicle, a 1990 Mazda driven by Smith, was located late Thursday afternoon in Lake John D.
Long near Union. Two bodies were found in the vehicle's back seat.
I remember Willard Scott crying on the Today Show during one of the weather breaks. And I would like to wear this white rose this morning.
For those two sweet children, we are so, all of us, emotionally involved in this story. You're sharing this information with viewers, viewers around the world as well.
What was the initial reaction? Anger. People were angry.
For the black community, there was added rage. Everybody's looking for a black man.
And, you know, I hate that she used this as a scapegoat, you know, to cover up the incident. You know, it could have been anything else, you know, but this is the way she chose out.
Susan's attempts to blame a black man inflamed painful stereotypes.

Union Sheriff Jeff Bailey.

She deflected onto somebody else that she knew would gain attention from the media,

gain attention from law enforcement.

It's a black man that took these two white children.

Susan's brother, Scotty, addressed the racial issue at a press conference.

On behalf of my family, we want to apologize to the black community of Union.

Thank you. addressed the racial issue at a press conference.
On behalf of my family, we want to apologize to the black community of Union. I'm thankful, especially to many of my black friends who called me and, you know, to comfort me and to tell me that they still love me.
Amidst the tense climate, police drove Susan to the courthouse the day after her confession. This is no overstatement at all.
There was a howling lynch mob of women waiting to see her. You need to cry.
There was one woman leading that mob of outraged women.

They were just outraged, black, white.

And I remember she screamed at Susan,

hold your head up, hold your head up, I want to look at you.

And that's when I knew this is going to fascinate the world for a long time. Three days after Susan Smith confessed to killing her sons, Michael and Alex Smith were laid to rest.
Their father, David, inconsolable as he walked into the church to say a final goodbye. No, Craig, it throws everything out of whack.
Forever. It changes everything.
Having to bury a child and burying two of them after mother killed them, I didn't know which way to go. Scores of strangers felt his pain and gathered outside the church to pay their respects.
You still can't, you know, grasp and say, why would somebody do anything like that, let alone a mother? Nearly a month later, David gathered the courage to face Susan. She just casually, like you and I, sitting here, said, I'm sorry.
And that was about as far as it went. Me? Craig, I would have been around her ankles begging her to forgive me if I had done what she did.
That was it? That was it. That was it.
Did she ask you to do anything during that conversation? Did she ask for you to testify on her behalf? Did she ask? No. She didn't even ask for my forgiveness.
Did you ask her why? Yes, I did ask her, why did you do this? Why did you, why? And she said, I don't know why, but I'm sorry. David did not buy Susan's apology or her apparent remorse.
And neither did prosecutors. They believed Susan's actions were premeditated and decided to seek the death penalty.

Despite her confession, Susan pleaded not guilty to two counts of murder.

What were people saying leading up to the trial?

You know, there was the question of, do you think she should die for killing them?

That got a lot of coverage, and there was a lot of discussion.

Many in the community were uncomfortable with the idea of sentencing a person to death, especially a woman. But the young prosecutor in charge of the case, Tommy Pope, decided that shouldn't matter.
I felt like Susan got treated differently than anyone else would in a similar situation. And I was determined from a justice standpoint not to let that happen.
Why do you think she was treated differently? I think the problem was Susan reminded people, and I say people, us, jurors, law enforcement, she could have been your sister, she could have been your co-worker. Less than a year after she killed her boys, Susan stood trial for their murders.
Opening statements of the trial of Susan Smith. Once again, news crews from all over the country descended on the small town of Union.
Main Street in front of the courthouse is shut down. The prosecution was ready to present its case.

What did you have to prove? So in South Carolina, I always tell people a death penalty is like a murder plus. And it's a two-part trial.
First part is about guilt. The second part, if you're successful on guilt, is the penalty.
Prosecutors told the jury Susan's guilt was not in question. Her handwritten confession made that clear.

Then, they presented their theory of why she did it. What made her kill those boys was a selfish desire, a delusional desire, but a selfish desire to be with another man.
That man was Tom Finley, the wealthy co-worker Susan dated after her marriage fell apart. The prosecution argued Susan was in love with him.
There was just one problem. He didn't want kids.
Prosecutors showed jurors a letter Tom wrote to Susan a week before she killed her children. In it, he explained why he ended their relationship.
Susan, I could really fall for you, but like I have told you before, there are some things about you that aren't suited for me. And yes, I am speaking about your children.
The fact is, I don't want children and I don't want to be responsible for anyone else's children either. Prosecutors argued those words pushed Susan to murder.
You say, well, why wouldn't you just give away the kids? If you give away the kids, you're a bad mother. But if the carjacker takes your kids, you're a victim.
And if you're a victim, you're more likely that Tom Finley is going to come and rescue you. The problem is that the problem is that the problem is that the problem is that the problem failure to try and save her own sons was proof.
I always tell people if she'd shown up at the house wet, injured, you know, from diving out of the car, if she'd gone straight to that house and said, I've done a horrible thing, you and I'd probably never be talking about it today. But she fabricated that story and put that car in the lake.
Experts testified it took six minutes for Susan's car to sink and play dissimulation video for the jury. You know, as it goes down and the water comes through the vents and the floorboard and it's coming up and it's coming toward that camera and ultimately it covers the camera, which, I mean, even describing it makes it hard to, you know, breathe almost.
Day after day, David listened to testimony about the deaths of his sons, and each day, he was forced to look at the woman who killed them. As you sat there, what was going through your mind? I don't know if I should even answer that.
Be honest, though. I used to sit there and look at the back of her head, and then look where the bailiffs were, officers were, and think about killing her.
How quick could I get to her? Could I reach her before that officer reaches me? Or could I get to her before that person would jump in front of me before I got my hands on her. Yeah.
You wanted her dead. I did.

Of course, David never acted on those thoughts.

He was hoping the state would put Susan to death.

But defense attorneys would have something to say about that.

They had a very different explanation for why Susan killed her children.

It is a story of a really complete emotional collapse. In the Amazon, a spacecraft cemetery in the middle of the ocean.

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Every morning, we choose how to begin our day. This is today.
I think about the people at home. They tune in because they are curious.
They care about their world. And they care about each other.
There's always something new to learn, whether a news event or a new recipe.

And when we step through the morning together,

it makes the rest of the day better.

We come here to make the death penalty off the table.

Was there ever a plea deal offered?

Absolutely, yes.

She would have pled guilty in exchange for a life sentence.

Lead attorney, David Ruck. And the prosecution said no, and we made the offer again and again and again.
The defense saw just one option, lay out the case for why Susan should not be sentenced to death. When most people think about Susan Smith, it's manipulative, it's conniving.
Some of the descriptors, pure evil. Pure evil, yeah.
The time that you spent with her preparing for her defense, what was she like? Well, a lot of what I saw was that she was just in an agony of grief and remorse and self-loathing. Grief for her children, remorse for what she had done.

Out of the gate, they offered a very different explanation for why Susan killed her sons.

What led her to the lake is a story of mental illness. It's a story of depression.

It is a story of a really complete emotional collapse.

They argued Susan wasn't homicidal that night. She was suicidal.
To prove it, defense attorneys would present the details of Susan's past attempts to take her own life. Law enforcement agents were also called as witnesses to share what Susan told them.
She mentioned to me that she had started down the ramp a couple times herself to commit suicide with the kids. She felt that was the best thing.
Agent Pete Logan spent days observing Susan during the search for her boys. He testified he believed her account that she tried to take her own life as well that night.
She stopped both times and got out of the car

and she said, I'll never understand why I reached in and let the emergency brake go. The main thrust of her defense was sympathy, sympathy, sympathy.
They told the jury Susan didn't kill her children to be with a wealthy man. To be clear, there was a wealthy boyfriend.
Yes. Okay.

You just maintain that it wasn't her affair with the wealthy boyfriend that led to the murders of Michael and Alex. It wasn't her desire to get back together with the wealthy boyfriend.
That relationship was dead as a doornail before this crime occurred. The defense argued what happened at the lake stemmed from trauma far older than a recent breakup.
It began when she was a child. She grew up in a family marked by alcoholism and violence, and finally her father did commit suicide.
Susan was six when he died. He shot himself and then called 911 and screamed into the phone to get them to come and help him.
That is what suicide is like. It's not rational.
People want to die and they want to live at the same time. And what she did at the lake really echoed the way her father left her when she was just a little girl.
The defense hired a renowned psychiatrist to evaluate Susan and testify about her past. This is a person scarred by childhood, scarred by a disordered family, a dysfunctional family.
And the defense argued those untreated scars and depression led to suicidal thoughts. She as a child at age 13 was making childish suicidal attempts with pills, and again at age 18.
The last attempt, so serious,, was hospitalized. While you were dating, even when

you were married, did she seem like she was mentally ill at any point? No. No depression? Oh,

no. Seemed totally normal? Yes.
And when you heard that, did you think, oh,

well, that might explain this or that might explain that? Or no? No. I don't,

I'm not going to or that might explain that. Or no.
No. I don't...
Nothing gives you the right to kill your children. Susan's attorneys presented even more evidence to shed light on her behavior.
It involved her relationship with stepfather Beverly Russell. A father who seemed to the outside world what she had lacked in her earliest years, but it turned out that he had been sexually molesting her when she was a teenager, at age, at least at age 15, 16.
Susan reported the abuse to a teacher. Social services investigated and Russell confessed.
But after a closed court hearing, no criminal charges were filed. Russell did agree to move out and undergo family counseling.
After Susan's arrest, it was Russell who took out a mortgage to pay for her defense. Bev Russell's quite the interesting character in all of this.
He's an abuser. And oh, by the way, he hires you to represent her.
Yes. Expert witnesses testified the sexual abuse was a major contributor to Susan's depression, promiscuity, and insecurity.
And it all came crashing down at that lake.

You argued there was another reason that Susan snapped that night, this mounting fear that her private life was about to be exposed. What did she fear was going to come out? Well, her ex-husband, David, knew that she had had this sexual relationship with her boss, and it had also come out that this sexual relationship with her stepfather had resumed.
In the year leading up to the boys' deaths, the defense told the jury that Beverly Russell had more sexual encounters with Susan. And she is exhibiting the promiscuity and the impaired judgment of an untreated incest survivor, of somebody who was left to figure out what had been done to her on her own.
The defense argued Susan worried it would come out during her divorce. She was a single mother with two small children who was about to be utterly disgraced.
And she could not, could not survive this. And the children could not be left alone without their mother.

And that is where the suicide idea came from. The defense had done all it could to garner sympathy for Susan Smith and rested its case.
But the trial would have one more twist. At the last

minute, the judge allowed jurors to consider a lesser charge. It took the prosecution by surprise.
The judge decided to give an involuntary manslaughter instruction, too, which suddenly took you from murder to, like, five-year penalty or something. And so that was a little nervous time going to the jury in that first phase.

The courtroom was on pins and needles. Would the jury spare Susan Smith's life?

On July 22nd, 1995, in the sweltering heat of a South Carolina summer, the jury and the Susan Smith trial started deliberations. Do you remember what it was like, Tommy, waiting for that verdict to come back from the jury? It's stressful waiting.
You know, you run through your mind, would I do this different? Would I do that different? But you have to kind of let that go and just accept what comes. Were you fairly confident that they would convict her? I didn't really know either way.
That was the first time I've ever been through a trial and especially one capital murder. just two hours later the the jury returned with the verdict, guilty on two counts of murder.
At least she was going to go to prison. That took some relief off of me.
And right on cue, Mother Nature offered the town a bit of relief as well. The weather broke.
It rained like I haven't seen it rain in a long time. It was like a cleansing in that little town.
The prosecution had won the first battle, but another lay ahead. The penalty phase.
Given the evidence, given the confession, given the mounting publicity, how worried were you that she was, in fact, going to be executed? I thought it was so clear from the fact that this was a murder-suicide attempt that was caused by mental illness that she was not going to be sentenced to death. This time, the defense could call character witnesses to testify, by people who knew Susan well.
What was the strongest testimony that you had? I think the testimony about how much she loved those children from so many people. But the defense's most riveting testimony came from Susan's stepfather, Beverly Russell.
He read from a letter he'd written to Susan after her arrest. In it, he acknowledged his sexual abuse and apologized for the damage he'd caused.
Beverly Russell was a very, very flawed man, but he still saw his responsibility to Susan when this disaster struck and did what he could. But the prosecution had a completely different take and reminded the jury that Susan wasn't the victim in this trial.
Her sons were. David took to the stand to share his fondest memories.
How hard was that for you? It was probably the, I won't say the hardest day I've ever had, but it's been among the top five.

What do you remember about that experience?

I remember Tommy Pope just asking me a lot of questions about Michael and Alex and about mine and Susan's marriage.

I remember it seemed like I cried a lot. Everybody was in tears.
It was so raw. It was so powerful in its emotion, in its heartbreak, in his heartbreak.
The prosecution wanted Susan to pay for the terrible agony she'd caused and hope the jurors would too. They deliberated just two hours before agreeing on a sentence.
Life in prison. When the decision was read that Susan would not be executed for the crimes, what was her reaction? Well, she was relieved for her family, that her family was not going to have to go through the whole gruesome process of having a loved one executed.
But David was both angry and disappointed. He still is.
It wasn't an accident. She didn't kill them by mistake.
She took a life. She should have gave up her life for it.
Lead prosecutor Tommy Pope says it was a hard loss to accept, but he has no regrets. I mean, I felt like we proved our case beyond a reasonable doubt.
A few weeks after the verdict, Dateline's Dennis Murphy talked to five of the jurors. Why did you decide to spare Susan Smith with your vote? After we listened to everything and we got all the evidence and I'm kind of, I figured that the death penalty just wouldn't, that would be like an easy way out to my opinion.
Would you say you all bought the defense presentation of Susan Smith? Woman with a lot of trouble. I never, I never went for the suicide part of it.
What do you hope will happen to Susan Smith? I hope that Susan will be able to live with herself in prison for the rest of her life knowing that. But that life sentence didn't guarantee Susan would spend the rest of her days in prison.
After 30 years, she'd be eligible for parole, something David could not live with and would fight tooth and nail to prevent. She deliberately killed Michael Alex, and I can't let her out.
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Terms and conditions apply. In the years after his boys were murdered, David Smith's heartbreak was so all-consuming, he sometimes thought about taking his own life.
There were a few times. Take me back to one of those times.
You went back to the lake. And what happened? I had my car lined up on the same boat ramp.
No. Because I wanted to go the same place, the same way they did.
But I couldn't do it.

I prayed for the strength to do it.

There was a time when I was on their grave with a gun in my mouth,

praying to God to give me his strength to pull that trigger. But thank goodness he didn't do it.
Susan's life sentence didn't put David at ease. She would still be eligible for parole after 30 years, and it weighed on him.
Would you have been better off had the state executed her? Wow. For myself, yes.
Because I wouldn't have to be dealing with what's coming up now. I mean, Craig, I know they said she had a tough life growing up, and I've never tried to make light of that.
But you don't kill your children for what happened to you. I wanted an eye for an eye.
But the jury saw a difference. At first, David put the thought of Susan's potential freedom in the back of his mind.
He and Tiffany, who'd remained by his side, focused on building a life together. They married in 2003.
I saw how dedicated and faithful and compassionate Tiffany was through all of it and stuck by my side. So I knew that better make that jump before I lose it.
And while David didn't think he would have more kids, along came a daughter, Savannah. How does something like that change you as a father? When you lose two kids the way you lost them, how does that change you, the way you parent? For me, it was a fine balance between being overprotective and not very protective at all.
Not being part of their life because you're scared to love them because something happened to them. As for Susan, her name still made headlines periodically, mostly when she found herself in trouble.
In 2000, two guards were fired and later convicted of having inappropriate relationships with her. Susan was transferred to a different prison.
She was also punished several times for possessing illegal drugs.

What have you heard? What have you been made aware of? I've heard about drug abuse. I had, you know, sex relations with guards.

But I would just hear it and then move on.

When you heard those things, did it surprise you?

No, no, not at all.

Not much else was known about Susan's life in prison.

And then, in 2004, Dateline producer Carol Gable wrote to Susan asking for an interview.

Though South Carolina doesn't allow prisoners to do on-camera or phone interviews,

Susan was allowed to write letters.

Dear Carol, I received your letter and was glad to hear from you. The correspondence would continue for 20 years and give a rare look into Susan's life in her own words.
When you wrote that initial letter to her, what were you hoping to accomplish? What I was hoping to do is to get some sense of her point of view. We heard lots about her.
Many, many people are willing to talk about her. Yeah.
But she hasn't spoken much about herself. Susan would end up sending more than 50 letters, Some casual, others more revealing.
I am not a horrible person, Carol.

I'm a human being who made a horrible decision. I grieve daily for my boys.
In her letters, Susan wrote about her struggles with mental health. I cannot remember a time when I did not suffer from depression.
Everyone has a breaking point, but not everyone reaches theirs.

I'm not trying to offer excuses for what happened, but neither am I this mean person who harmed her children

because she wanted to be with a man who didn't want children.

She also said she attempted suicide three times while in prison.

When they found me, there was a big puddle of blood and I'd written with my blood, let me die. Carol, I truly did want to die at that moment.
As the years passed, Susan sent cards. She wrote about getting therapy, medication, and a job.
Right now I'm working in the school as a tutor. I teach math to students trying to get their GED.
Did you ever think, especially early on in the back and forth, that she might have an agenda with you? Oh, sure. I mean, you always have to consider that as a possibility.
But over time, she always said the same things. It didn't change.
The facts didn't change. One thing Susan can never change is what she did at the lake that night.
In a recent letter, she included what she says is her best explanation for what happened. I'd never felt so completely alone as I did that night.
I bit all my fingernails off. When I got to the lake, that's when it hit me how I was going to die.
Michael and Alex were asleep. She said she stopped the car from going into the lake several times before finally jumping out, and then she let it roll in.
I never saw the car go into the lake. When I reached the top of the hill, I stopped and looked back, and all I could see was a dark lake.
You'd never have thought that two little boys had just drowned at their mother's hand. Susan says she accepts responsibility for what she did.
David disagrees. I don't think she's even, to me, been really sorry for what she did.
You don't think she's sorry? No, not genuinely. By November 2024, Susan was 53 and believed she was ready to reenter society.
She would argue as much at her parole hearing,

but David would also be there fighting to keep Susan in prison.

You don't think she's been rehabilitated?

I don't think she'll ever be rehabilitated.

The months before Susan's parole hearing were anxious times for David and Tiffany Smith.

For almost 30 years, we've not worried about it.

And then for six months leading up to the parole hearing,

it started eating away at both of us because they could come back and say, let her out.

What do you plan to say?

Thank you. Six months leading up to the parole hearing, it started eating away at both of us because they could come back and say, let her out.
What do you plan to say? I don't know for sure. Just speaking from the heart.
Nothing scripted. But I just want to tell that parole board that they can't let her out.
The day finally arrived, a rainy November morning in 2024. For David and Tiffany, it was deja vu.
There were cameras set up out on the lawn everywhere. But Susan would not face the cameras outside.
She appeared virtually from prison where she'd spent decades. Her trial attorney, David Brock, believes Susan should be released.

Susan doesn't pose a danger to society.

I don't see what punishing her

year after year after year in prison

does to help anyone.

To those who would say,

Michael and Alex deserve more than

25, 30 years for their murders. Michael and Alex are beyond harm or help.
Susan's parole attorney, Tommy Thomas, told the board Susan's untreated mental health issues led her to the lake that night. It doesn't take away from the horrendous nature of the crime.
She knows that she's guilty. She struggles with the guilt every day.
He said Susan would live with her brother back in union and try to become a counselor if granted release. I think that her motivation of being released is secondary to the primary goal of if she can maybe help some other mother who is thinking of maybe the same things.
And then, for the first time since 1994, Susan Smith appeared on camera to speak on her own behalf. First of all, I want to say how

very sorry

I am.

I know that what I did was horrible.

And I don't give anything if I could go back and change it. And I love Michael and Alice with all my heart.
The board asked what she would say to the law enforcement community who worked tirelessly for nine days to find her children. I'm sorry that I put them through that.
I really, really am. And I'm especially sorry to the person that I had to find them.
I wish I could take that back. I really do.
I was really, I didn't lie to get away with it. I really didn't.
I was just scared. I didn't know how I could tell the people that loved him that they would never see him again.
I didn't know how I could tell David he couldn't see his son again. Susan acknowledged she hasn't been a model prisoner, but claimed she's changed.
I grew up and I knew that I needed to start making dumb decisions.

And I did. I just, I knew it was time to just to grow up and do the right thing.
I just made a lot of dumb choices and mistakes and you know, so I know I've learned from those mistakes. In closing, she begged the board for

her freedom. I am a Christian and God is a big part of my life and I know he has forgiven me

and it is by his grace and mercy that and I have a lot of faith and I live by that every day

and I just ask that that you show that same kind of mercy as well. But the hearing wasn't over.
David and Tiffany were about to address the board. They filed into the room, flanked by family and friends, all wearing a pinned photo of Michael and Alex on their chests.
Tiffany cautioned the board not to be swayed by any of Susan's arguments.

All I can think about is how much she lied and manipulated everybody.

And that just makes me feel like if she could do that then,

whatever she's told you today, I'm sure were probably lies as well.

And then all eyes were on David Smith. God gives us free choice.
And she made free choice that night to end their life. This wasn't a tragic mistake.
Wasn't something that she didn't mean to do. She purposely meant to end their life.

I understand back in 95 that through the state's law life in prison meant 30 years to life. But ultimately to me that's only 15 years per child, her own children.
It's just not enough.

After three decades, Susan's fate lay in the hands of the parole board. Its decision was just moments away.
After an hour of tense, emotional testimony at Susan Smith's parole hearing, the decision came quickly in the end. Susan Smith has denied parole.
The board denied Susan's request. By that point, she had left the Zoom hearing.
Once again, David spoke to the swarm of cameras outside. Today, the committee made the right decision and denied her parole.

That's how it was.

You literally could feel and see the relief off of both of us.

For now, Susan Smith remains in prison.

But going forward, she'll be up for parole every two years.

Every two years, you're going to have to deal with this.

Yes.

Have you made peace with that?

Yes.

How?

Because it's going to give me another chance to stand up for Michael and Alex,

to defend them and try to keep the sympathy off of her that she keeps trying to conjure. And every time he goes up to the parole board, Tiffany says she will be there with him.
How hard has this been on you over the last 30 years? It's been very hard to start with. It took a while for him to trust me again because he had been betrayed so awfully.
But I stuck beside him through it all to try to win his trust, to show him that I wouldn't do anything like that. That's not who I am.
And then losing Michael and Alice was a loss to me as well because I've always loved children. David and Tiffany don't live in union anymore.
They have a home near Spartanburg where David continues to get up every morning

and work at a manufacturing company.

How have you been able to do it?

What has been the secret

to not letting what happened define your life?

I would say the top would be my faith in God.

You know, I was mad at him for a long time.

Me and him have had some heated discussions,

but I never blamed him.

But the second was not letting her win.

You may have took my children,

but you're not going to make me bitter.

You're not going to make me mad at the world. You're not going to make me take my own life.
You're not going to win. Have you forgiven her? Of course.
Why? Because that's the way I was taught. I had to forgive her because it was just going to eat me up if I didn't.
It was going to hold me back. But he says there's another painful struggle he faces daily, trying to remember his boys.
It's been three decades now. Are the memories, are they still fresh or do they fade at some point? I've never really had any memories of them since they passed.
I was told by, you know, psychiatrists and stuff through the years, early on, that that was just my self-defense system. It was protecting me from myself, but that they would come back.
But, Craig, we're here 30 years later, as you said, and I still have very few memories of my own. And that hurts.
It hurts. You want vivid memories? Yes.
Of course I want to remember them. I remember things I did with them, but they're not there.
What do you think that is? Do you think that perhaps that is to help you on some weird level? That's all I can think it is. It's my own mind protecting me from myself because I still miss them so much that those memories would just hurt too much.
And my own self knows that. And it's just saying, not yet, David.
Not yet. In January 2025, David returned to John D.
Long Lake, the place where this whole tragedy began.

Stopping at the memorial the community erected for the boys, people still come here to pay their respects.

Michael and Alex have touched so many hearts.

The lake, he says, looks a little different. This is the first time I've been back to this lake in about 25 years.
For one thing, that boat ramp that Susan used is gone. To the eyes, it's more peaceful, but to the heart, it's still sad, sadness.

David listened to the quiet wind blow over the lake,

then shared a few final words for his little boys.

I'm so sorry.

I think your life ended this way.

I'm so sorry.

It's just such a peaceful place to have such a horrific thing happen. I miss you.
That's all for this edition of Dateline. And check out our Talking Dateline podcast.
Craig Melvin and Josh Mankiewicz will go behind the scenes of tonight's episode, available Wednesday in the Dateline feed wherever you get your podcasts. We'll see you again next Friday at 9, 8 central.
I'm Lester Holt. For all of us at NBC News, good night.
Hey friends, Ted Danson here, and I want to let you know about my new podcast. It's called Where Everybody Knows Your Name, with me, Ted Danson, and Woody Harrelson, sometimes.
Doing this podcast is a chance for me and my good bud Woody to reconnect after Cheers wrapped 30 years ago. Plus, we're introducing each other to the friends we've met since, like Jane Fonda, Conan O'Brien, Eric Andre,

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Listen to Where Everybody Knows Your Name

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