A verdict in Chattanooga. A widow accused of murder. And how to avoid natural disaster scammers.

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Speaker 4 You're listening in to Dateline's Dateline's morning meeting in 30 Rockefeller Center.

Speaker 3 Good morning, Jim. You got a weather report? Yes, today it is cold.

Speaker 4 Our editorial team is catching up on breaking crime news around the country.

Speaker 3 Probably will get really big. It's a crazy story.
It's contrary to what he said in our interview. He breaks down on the stand, and they basically have to end his testimony because he is so upset.

Speaker 4 Welcome to Dateline True Crime Weekly. I'm Andrea Canning.
It's January 23rd, and here's what's on our docket.

Speaker 4 In California, eight years after a celebrity hairstylist was found stabbed to death on his patio, his widow is set to stand trial for allegedly masterminding his murder with her lover.

Speaker 5 She's apparently glued to her phone watching her home security system when the intruders had broken into the home and were murdering her husband.

Speaker 4 In Dateline Roundup, rap icon Tupac Shakur was gunned down 30 years ago. This week, his accused killer appeared in court.

Speaker 4 And an update on the trial of the West Virginia pharmacist accused of poisoning her husband.

Speaker 6 The defense argued that if you're going to murder someone, why would you keep the murder weapon in your fridge, right?

Speaker 4 Plus, NBC News senior consumer investigative correspondent Vicki Wynn is back.

Speaker 4 In the wake of the devastating wildfires in Los Angeles, Vicki has tips on how to avoid disaster-related scams wherever you live.

Speaker 7 Just do a gut check, always pause, get a second opinion before you ever give out your personal information or pay a penny to anyone.

Speaker 4 But before all that, we're heading to Chattanooga, where there have been some big developments in a story we've been watching closely on the podcast, the murder trial of Jason Chen.

Speaker 4 There were sobs and cheering in a Tennessee courtroom earlier this week when Jason Chen's 10-day trial for murdering his girlfriend, Jasmine Pace, came to a rapid conclusion.

Speaker 8 I'm calling the jury out of the verdict.

Speaker 4 Chen had been facing charges of first-degree premeditated murder for allegedly stabbing Jasmine 60 times in 2022, then packing her into a suitcase and leaving the suitcase next to a creek.

Speaker 4 His defense, that Jasmine had actually attacked him and that he'd killed her spontaneously before covering up her death out of shame.

Speaker 4 When we talked about this trial last week, the prosecution was making its case. The defense took over on the holiday weekend.

Speaker 4 Here to fill us in on what we we missed is Dateline producer Mario Garcia and associate producer Jess Koenig. Hey guys.

Speaker 11 Hey Andrea. Hey Andrea.

Speaker 12 Thanks for having us.

Speaker 4 All right. Let's do a quick reminder of this case.
It's the one where Jasmine's family took matters into their own hands.

Speaker 13 They did indeed, Andrea.

Speaker 14 I mean, in court, we found out that they went into Jason Chen's, the accused department, at least three times. And then they called 911 after the first time.
But they were desperate.

Speaker 14 And they, as Katrina, the mother, said on the stand, I would have done anything to try and find my daughter.

Speaker 4 And according to the prosecution and and the defense, their actions of going in there kind of lit a fire under the police. And then that led to a search warrant.

Speaker 4 And they found blood on the rug and floors, which was huge in this.

Speaker 12 The blood, in their words, all over the apartment, bedroom, bathroom, it was everywhere.

Speaker 4 So Jason Chen has admitted to killing Jasmine. His defense lawyer said as much in his opening statement.
Jason Chen

Speaker 1 is guilty,

Speaker 15 but he's not guilty of the crime that he's charged.

Speaker 4 So, really, at the heart of this is: was it premeditated or not? The medical examiner testified last week for the prosecution. Did the medical examiner's testimony support that it was premeditated?

Speaker 14 The medical examiner went through very precisely and said: look, all 60 of the wounds were in a very focused, small area.

Speaker 14 And really, the only sense that it made was that she was already bound in that fetal position that she was found in. Right.

Speaker 4 In the suitcase, she had handcuffs on that locked her wrist to her ankle. One of the key witnesses for the defense was a neighbor who overheard something.

Speaker 12 Yeah, Andrew. So the first witness up for the defense team was a neighbor that lived right below his apartment.

Speaker 12 And she says that at about 2.11 a.m., she was woken up by a scream and then heard some yelling. And it was a female.

Speaker 13 Did you hear any crying?

Speaker 9 The voice that came after the screaming, that was,

Speaker 9 it kind of sounded like when you're already upset, but you're trying to prove a point.

Speaker 4 Which can connect, you know, to possibly that this was a spontaneous fight.

Speaker 14 I mean, it fit their narrative. The narrative was Jasmine was the provoker of the fight, upset about alleged messages on a dating app that she didn't know about, and she came at him.

Speaker 4 But there was a witness for the prosecution that poked a big hole in that narrative, a tech investigator for the district attorney, right?

Speaker 12 Yeah, so they went through Jason Cheng's phone records and they found that there was no Tinder data at all from November 22nd or from the early morning of November 23rd.

Speaker 12 So, okay, suddenly the defense's story that Jasmine saw a Tinder message pop up in the middle of the night makes zero sense anymore.

Speaker 4 Closings were on Monday. The prosecution's first argument was quite methodical going through everything again.

Speaker 14 They started the closings where they started the openings.

Speaker 14 They had the suitcase again and let it sit there while they went through the timestamps, all of the cell phone records, all of the traffic cameras, everything we've shown you leads to premeditation.

Speaker 4 What did the defense say in their closing argument?

Speaker 14 Their closing was pretty short and just tried to emphasize what premeditation meant.

Speaker 9 Everything that Jason did showed that there was intent.

Speaker 9 It showed that he wasn't acting rational.

Speaker 9 Rational

Speaker 9 people

Speaker 9 don't shackle individuals and put them in garbage bags and put them in a suitcase.

Speaker 14 And then the prosecutor, the DA, Cody Womp, she had a rebuttal and she literally opened with, wow, just like that and said, nothing they just said connects to their opening.

Speaker 14 They gave you this theory about what happened, and we've heard nothing else about this in this trial.

Speaker 10 It's certainly not a defense when you say it, and you never prove it.

Speaker 14 It was one of the most dramatic closings we've ever seen.

Speaker 10 Jasmine Pace is not just some girl listed in an autopsy report. She is not the photos that you have seen.
She is a person.

Speaker 10 She had family that loved her.

Speaker 4 So the jury got the case at about 4.30 Monday afternoon. How long did they deliberate for?

Speaker 12 Well, it was less than an hour and we were back in the courtroom and they announced that he was found guilty on first-degree premeditated murder and abuse of a corpse.

Speaker 4 That has got to be one of the shortest deliberation times I've ever heard.

Speaker 12 Yeah, and honestly, I think it was due to the fact that the jury was attentive. They were asking questions.

Speaker 4 Yeah, that's so true because you had told us that in this trial, the jurors could ask in real time. Jason's mother gave a statement at the sentencing hearing the day after the verdict.
Yeah.

Speaker 12 She was sobbing. Jason was wiping his tears away, and she just kept repeating.
He made a mistake. Like, he knows he made a mistake, he's still young, please.

Speaker 12 I give him a chance to live his life and learn from his mistakes.

Speaker 4 Did Jasmine's family speak?

Speaker 14 Her older sister spoke.

Speaker 14 Then her older cousin spoke and she took out a glass jar and started dropping blue little glass stones into the glass jar and she counted out 60 little glass stones for each stab wound

Speaker 14 that Jazzy had experienced.

Speaker 16 For two years and two months, I have thought at this very moment, the moment I would have the chance to confront the subhuman villain sitting among us.

Speaker 14 She also said, you know, you haven't just torn apart our family. I pray for your mother.
I feel awful for your mother. You have torn apart two families.

Speaker 4 That's heartbreaking.

Speaker 4 The jury also had

Speaker 4 say in the sentencing. They did.

Speaker 14 In Tennessee, if you're found guilty of first-degree premeditated murder, the jury then decides the sentence. The jurors spent about 20 minutes deliberating the sentencing.

Speaker 16 We, the jury, do unanimously agree that the defendant's sentence shall be life imprisonment without the possibility of correcting.

Speaker 14 The Pace family did let out a little triumphant scream.

Speaker 14 His mother and his brother were crying.

Speaker 4 Mario and Jess, thank you for covering this for us. Thank you, Andrew.

Speaker 11 Thanks for having us.

Speaker 4 Up next, with her trial set to begin in Los Angeles, we've got all the details in the case of the widow accused of masterminding a plot to murder her celebrity hairstylist husband.

Speaker 4 Will her lover testify for or against her?

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Speaker 4 In January 2017, respected Hollywood hairstylist and executive Fabio Cimentilli was found stabbed to death on the patio of his multi-million dollar mansion in the upscale Woodland Hills neighborhood of Los Angeles.

Speaker 4 There had been a run of burglaries in the area, and the crime seemed like a break-in gone wrong until six months later. Here's what our affiliate, NBC4 Los Angeles, had to say at the time.

Speaker 19 Neighbors we talked to were initially concerned this might be a robbery or a burglary or a random, but now it appears police believed it was much closer to home.

Speaker 4 Monica Cementilli, Fabio's wife of almost 20 years, was arrested and charged with first-degree murder. And she wasn't the only one.
Her lover, a man named Robert Louis Baker, was also charged.

Speaker 4 Both pleaded not guilty. Now, after eight years, Monica's trial is set to begin next week.
Dateline producer Chetna Joshi is here to break down the story for us. Chetna, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 5 Happy to be here.

Speaker 4 So many of our datelines start out this way where, you know, police have to look at could this have been...

Speaker 4 you know, a more random murder. There was a string of burglaries in the area.

Speaker 4 In this case, though, there were some details that stuck out to the detectives that maybe this wasn't one of those burglaries.

Speaker 5 Yeah,

Speaker 5 that's exactly right. They did find video very early on.
Investigators came across video of two suspects running towards the house wearing hoodies so you couldn't see their faces.

Speaker 5 Only the master bedroom appeared to have been ransacked.

Speaker 5 Another thing is that the intruders who broke in, they took the DVR of the home security system, which was tucked away in the garage, not really in an obvious place.

Speaker 5 And it would sort of call into question, if you're taking that, how did you even know where that was?

Speaker 5 And I think the most odd thing that stuck out to investigators' minds was that Fabio had a Rolex watch that was still left on his wrist after the murder.

Speaker 4 So yeah, that's something you would very likely want to take as a burger if you're a burglar.

Speaker 5 Right.

Speaker 4 This got investigators thinking that this could be an inside job. And one thing they discovered was that Monica was having an affair.

Speaker 5 Yeah. Apparently, according to court documents, Monica had been having an affair with a racquetball instructor at her local gym.

Speaker 4 So his name is Robert Lewis Baker. Their affair had been going on for, what, about a year and a half?

Speaker 5 According to the documents, yeah.

Speaker 4 Was there a murder weapon found?

Speaker 5 They've never found a murder weapon. Fabio was a big guy.
He was a really big guy. And for one person to have been able to take him out like that, you know,

Speaker 5 would not have been an easy feat.

Speaker 4 Was there any evidence left at the crime scene that,

Speaker 4 you know, pointed perhaps to the man Monica's having an affair with?

Speaker 5 They did find blood at the crime scene, but they weren't sure who it belonged to. Fabio's Porsche was also taken.

Speaker 5 And a couple of days after the murder, they find this Porsche, and inside there's blood. And when they test it, it comes back to Robert Baker.

Speaker 4 From the beginning, prosecutors said that Monica wasn't involved in the the actual murder, but that she helped plan it.

Speaker 5 Yeah, so Monica told officers that she was at the local Target running some errands when this crime happened.

Speaker 5 Prosecutors say there's apparently a video from inside the Target that shows Monica

Speaker 5 on her phone, glued to her.

Speaker 5 We haven't seen this video yet, so we're waiting to see it in trial, but she's apparently glued to her phone watching her home security system when the intruders had broken into the home and were murdering her husband.

Speaker 5 There's also information that came out in court documents that she had set up a new home security system several months prior to Fabio's murder and that she had taken the instructions on how to work this home security system and emailed it to Robert Baker.

Speaker 4 What do they believe was her motive?

Speaker 5 Yeah, you know, we haven't gotten a firm answer on this, but based on what we've been able to put together over these last several years and attending court hearings and listening to prosecutors, Fabio had a sizable life insurance policy, $1.6 million.

Speaker 5 And they alleged that Monica and Baker had plans to be together, to take this money and to pursue their relationship together.

Speaker 4 In July 2023, Baker ended up pleading no contest to the murder charges.

Speaker 5 Yeah, so that plea really took a lot of us by surprise. He decided to do this on his own free will for whatever reasons he decided to do it.

Speaker 5 No contest is basically a defendant is accepting the conviction without admitting guilt, but saying, okay, I'm prepared to take responsibility for this and accepting the sentence.

Speaker 4 Most of the time with these cases, you know, it's kind of like who's first when there's a couple of people involved and who's going to flip on the other, you know, to get a better deal.

Speaker 4 Did we see that in this case? Did Baker flip on Monica?

Speaker 5 No. Baker, according to court documents, Baker maintains that he was responsible for this, that Monica had no knowledge about this, and that she wasn't involved in any way.

Speaker 4 So you mentioned, Chetna, that there were on the video the two men. in hoodies.
What happened to this other man if Monica's at Target and you've got two guys on the video? Yeah.

Speaker 5 So this third suspect for years and years and years, I mean, we waited, and it was almost almost like a forgotten person because the cases were moving forward with Monica and Baker, and no real mention of this third suspect up until October of 2024.

Speaker 5 And they arrest a man named Christopher Austin. He cooperates with police from everything that we've been able to tell.
And just this past Friday, he ended up pleading guilty to second-degree murder.

Speaker 5 And we've been told that he is going to testify for the state at the trial. And what we expect is that he's going to say that Monica was aware of what was going on as well, was aware of this plan.

Speaker 5 It'll be interesting to see.

Speaker 4 I always think about

Speaker 4 hairstylists and how close they get. to their clients.
And this must have been such a shock for so many, so many people connected to to Fabio and his family.

Speaker 5 Yeah, you know, I've been covering this case since it happened in 2017. I remember like the first, especially those first few hearings, all of Fabio's family is in Toronto.

Speaker 5 So they couldn't make it to all these hearings. But I would end up seeing other people that Fabio worked with.

Speaker 5 I mean, people that would drive up from San Diego, people that would come far distances just to sit in court for like a, you know, 10, 15 minute hearing. You know, they knew Fabio.

Speaker 5 They were touched by Fabio.

Speaker 5 I think he made a big impact on a lot of people.

Speaker 4 Chetna, thank you so much for giving us this preview before this trial starts. A fascinating, fascinating case.

Speaker 5 Nice talking to you.

Speaker 4 Coming up, it's Dateline Roundup.

Speaker 4 We've got an update on an important pre-trial ruling in the Karen Reed case and the latest from the trial of the West Virginia pharmacist accused of poisoning her husband.

Speaker 4 Plus tips from NBC News senior investigative correspondent Vicki Wynn on how to steer clear of disaster-related scams.

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Speaker 4 Welcome back. Joining me for this week's Dateline Roundup is Dateline producer Sue Simpson.
Hey, Sue. Hi, Andrea.

Speaker 17 Hi.

Speaker 4 Okay, so we all know you're our expert on all things Karen Reed.

Speaker 4 She is the Massachusetts woman accused of hitting her police officer boyfriend, John O'Keefe, with her car and leaving him to die in the snow back in 2022. Reed pleaded not guilty.

Speaker 4 Her murder trial ended with a deadlocked jury and a retrial set for April of this year. Sue, we have some new information.

Speaker 6 So, Andrea, last time we spoke on the podcast, we were waiting for a judge to rule on whether or not a dog expert could testify for the defense at the retrial. And that ruling has now come in.

Speaker 6 The dog expert will be allowed to testify.

Speaker 6 That's a big win for the defense because this expert testified during Karen Reed's first trial that the injuries on John O'Keefe's arm were consistent with a dog attack, not with being struck by a car, as you know the prosecutors allege.

Speaker 4 Karen Reed, of course, had so many supporters at the courthouse during her trial. We talked about that before.

Speaker 4 But even in the bitter cold this past weekend, some of them were out in force across New England at protests they're calling standouts.

Speaker 6 It is remarkable, isn't it? You know, in Rhode Island, our affiliate NBC10 NBC10, spoke with Karen Reed's brother Nathan.

Speaker 6 Here's what Nathan had to say about how he and his family are feeling about the retrial.

Speaker 15 Very strong. You know,

Speaker 15 this turnout, both here in Rhode Island and throughout New England, to be honest, we've got, today we've got 29 standouts across the country.

Speaker 15 This really gives us incredible hope.

Speaker 4 Amazing. An Arctic blast does not deter Karen Reed supporters.

Speaker 4 Up next, an update on a story we told you about last week. This is the murder trial of Natalie Cochran.
She is the West Virginia pharmacist accused of poisoning her husband with insulin.

Speaker 4 Sue, what's the latest from the courtroom?

Speaker 6 Well, Andrea, last week's witnesses painted a vivid picture of what happened in the days leading up to Michael's death.

Speaker 6 And it's pretty remarkable how all these people were in and out of the Cochrane's house and they were watching his health deteriorate.

Speaker 6 One friend testified about Natalie's refusal to take Michael to a hospital to be looked at.

Speaker 15 Did she accept any of those symptoms?

Speaker 5 No, she said she was going to let him sleep it off.

Speaker 6 And a contractor working for the couple recalled speaking to Michael a few months before his death and that Michael told him he was feeling dizzy and that he felt he'd been poisoned.

Speaker 4 On Friday, an FBI chemist testified about the evidence central to the prosecution's case against Natalie, the vial of insulin recovered from the Cochrane's home. What did he tell the jury?

Speaker 6 This chemist confirmed that one of the vials was in fact insulin.

Speaker 6 But during cross, when he was asked if he could confirm whether he knew the vial had been used, this chemist said that was not in his area of expertise.

Speaker 6 The defense argued that if you're going to murder someone, why would you keep the murder weapon in your fridge, right?

Speaker 4 Well, we'll keep an eye on this one.

Speaker 4 Up next, we're headed to a Las Vegas courtroom with an update in the murder case against hip-hop legend Hupak Shakur's alleged killer. His name is Dwayne Keefe D.
Davis.

Speaker 4 Remind us about the murder itself, Sue. It certainly has been a very long time.

Speaker 6 It has been a long time. 1996, to be exact.
And that's when Shaker was fatally shot.

Speaker 6 He was sitting in the passenger seat of a BMW when a white Cadillac pulled up alongside the car and shots were fired.

Speaker 4 So his murder has been unsolved, fueling conspiracy theories until, of course, an arrest was made in 2023. Dwayne Davis, he was charged with the murder.

Speaker 4 How does law enforcement say he was connected to the the crime?

Speaker 6 It was really his own words authorities say that put him there. He wrote six years ago in his 2019 memoir that he provided the gun that was used in the drive-by shooting.

Speaker 4 So they feel that he incriminated himself with those words. Davis' team filed a motion in the beginning of January seeking dismissal of the charges against him.

Speaker 6 Davis's attorney claims that his client's constitutional rights were violated because of a delay prosecuting the case. Witnesses have died.
evidence has potentially been lost.

Speaker 6 You know, all of that could negatively impact the fairness of a trial.

Speaker 4 How did the judge rule this week?

Speaker 6 The judge rejected the motion and upheld the murder case against Davis.

Speaker 4 Davis has pleaded not guilty. What's next?

Speaker 6 Murder trial is still on happening in March.

Speaker 4 Sue, thank you so much for joining us.

Speaker 6 Thank you, Andrea.

Speaker 4 These past few months, our hearts have gone out to those impacted by Hurricane Helene in North Carolina and the wildfires in Los Angeles. The devastation is truly massive.

Speaker 4 Entire neighborhoods have been destroyed. Thousands of people have lost their homes or been displaced.
So many of us, of course, want to help.

Speaker 4 Unfortunately, according to the Federal Communications Commission and the Better Business Bureau, scammers often take advantage of natural disasters to prey both on those looking to give help and those most in need of it.

Speaker 4 So here to give us some tips on how to avoid getting scammed is NBC News Senior Consumer Investigative Correspondent Vicki Wynn. Vicki, thanks for joining us again.

Speaker 7 Andrea, I love this topic. It's very timely to talk about right now.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I know you're going to have amazing tips on this subject. So Vicki, in the past week or so, we've seen lots of fundraising links go up for things like GoFundMe on social media.

Speaker 4 I've seen some that have surpassed $100 million.

Speaker 4 But I've also heard there are some fake GoFundMes going around where scammers are posing as disaster victims and pocketing the money, which is so horrible.

Speaker 4 If you want to donate, how can you be sure the money is actually going to the people who need it?

Speaker 7 GoFundMe actually has this centralized hub for all of its fundraisers related to the wildfire, and their trust and safety team has verified that.

Speaker 7 So you can go to that hub to make sure the fund that you're trying to donate to is legitimate.

Speaker 7 They do have a money-back guarantee for your peace of mind, but they also say, please use your common sense, not just for this disaster, but for all GoFundMe accounts that are set up.

Speaker 7 So, some tips: donate to fundraisers where you directly know someone or it's a a friend of a friend. That way at least you have a connection.

Speaker 7 If it's a stranger, you want to look at the description and make sure it has information about the organizer and their actual relationship to the beneficiaries.

Speaker 7 And this one's a little trickier, but if you know how to go on Google and use a reverse image search, Google will allow you to look up the images on that GoFundMe to see if those are just stock photos.

Speaker 4 Almost like catfishing, Tiki, in a way.

Speaker 7 Exactly. They use these great images that really tug on your heartstrings.
And then you realize, oh, this is from from like 2009. And honestly, it just takes a moment, right?

Speaker 7 To do a quick Google search. Has this GoFundMe or this organization been written about by reputable news outlets?

Speaker 4 You know, I have a lot of friends who've been displaced. I have one friend who lost his house.

Speaker 4 What can people do who are looking for help right now as they start thinking about the long process of rebuilding?

Speaker 7 The first thing they need to do is understand what the benefits are that they're eligible for. for.
People can get assistance from FEMA.

Speaker 7 They can get help with short-term rent, with lodging, like if they need to stay at a hotel or somewhere, and rebuilding. But you do need to reach out to the government.

Speaker 7 FEMA's website is there for you to go and fill out those applications, but you need to make sure that the people you are interacting with really are. from the federal government.

Speaker 4 Yeah, so that could be an opportunity for scammers to step in. What should you watch out for on this end of it?

Speaker 7 Yeah, be very careful if you're getting a phone call from a random number, right? Scammers will pose as callers from FEMA.

Speaker 7 Sometimes, Andrea, they will will spoof FEMA's number to make it look like it's coming from FEMA. So if anyone is calling to ask you for your personal financial information, that is a red flag.

Speaker 7 No, dude, this is for you to reach out to the government, not for someone to call and, you know, solicit that information from you, right?

Speaker 7 Also, if someone comes to you, you know, maybe you're going through the belongings you have at your home and they show up. You want to ask, what is your government ID?

Speaker 7 A FEMA jacket, that's not enough. You can buy that online and put that on.
They should have a registration registration number as well.

Speaker 7 If you've already set up your account, you're going through the process. They should be able to verify information to you, not vice versa.

Speaker 7 If you are applying for aid through FEMA, you don't have to pay anything. It is free.
You do not have to pay an application fee at all. If someone's trying to charge you, that is a scam.

Speaker 7 Same for any sort of inspection from FEMA. That is free.

Speaker 4 There will be a lot of rebuilding in the coming weeks and months and of course years.

Speaker 7 What I want people to know is contractors will be out. People will be soliciting business.

Speaker 7 But what you want to do is make sure you get their name, their phone number, their license number, and you can look up whether or not they are a licensed contractor in the area where you're rebuilding because taking the time to do that research will save you so much heartache later on.

Speaker 4 The best defense is listening to Vicki

Speaker 4 because these tips are so, so good. Vicki, thank you for everything you're doing to help people.

Speaker 7 We're so grateful for the opportunity to talk about this.

Speaker 7 So I want people to be empowered with this information and just do a gut check, always pause, get a a second opinion before you ever give out your personal information or pay a penny to anyone.

Speaker 4 Such good work on this, Vicki. Thank you.
Thank you.

Speaker 4 That's it for this episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly. Next week, we'll have the latest from the courtroom and the run-up to Brian Koberger's summer trial.

Speaker 4 You can read more about the cases featured on the podcast on our website, datelinetruecrimeweekly.com.

Speaker 4 And if you have any questions or comments for us, you can reach us on social media at DatelineNBC.

Speaker 4 and coming up this sunday on dateline after a pittsburgh dentist predicts his own death his friends and family vow to track down his killer it does seem outrageous that this person is not being looked at closer and they want to make me or friends feel like we're expecting the impossible

Speaker 22 why is that so impossible to do why why is that expecting too much

Speaker 4 You can watch my classic two-hour mystery, The Premonition, this Sunday on NBC at 9-8 Central. And if you have any questions or comments for us, you can reach us on social media at Dateline NBC.

Speaker 4 To get ad-free listening for all our podcasts, subscribe to Dateline Premium. Thanks for listening.
Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Frannie Kelly and Katie Ferguson.

Speaker 4 Our associate producers are Carson Cummins and Caroline Casey. Our senior producer is Liz Brown Kuriloff.
Production and fact-checking help by Sarah Kadir. Veronica Mazeka is our digital producer.

Speaker 4 Rick Kwan is our sound designer. Original music by Jesse McGinty.
Bryson Barnes is head of audio production. Paul Ryan is executive producer.
And Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Dateline.

Speaker 1 Anybody have anything else?

Speaker 3 Great. Thanks.
Everybody can see all.

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