Talking Dateline: The Killer Among Them

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Speaker 1 Hi, everybody. It's Josh Mankowitz, and we are talking Dateline today with Andrea Canning.
Hi, Andrea. Hi, hi.
So, this episode is called The Killer Among Them. It's from 1996.

Speaker 1 An Atlanta millionaire named Lance Herndon was found bludgeoned to death in his home, and detectives dug into his life.

Speaker 1 It turned out one of the people closest to him was his killer, and that person had actually been at his big, glamorous birthday party in Atlanta just a little while before he was killed.

Speaker 1 So if you have not listened to this episode yet, it is the episode right below this one on the list of podcasts that you just chose from.

Speaker 1 So go there, listen to it, or if you want to watch it, you can stream it on Peacock or watch it on your DVR and then come back here.

Speaker 1 Now, when you come back, Andrea has an extra clip that she wants to play for us from the Killer's Police Interrogation.

Speaker 1 And also later, we're going to answer some of your questions about the episode from social media. And now let's talk Dayline.
So you say killer among us in the episode.

Speaker 1 Is this one of those rare instances in which the title is actually your title?

Speaker 3 So I did not come up with this title, but I actually, I watched the show Friday, like everyone else at home. I mean, I'd seen it before that, but I did notice that.
And I had the same question.

Speaker 3 Did the title come from this? So I actually just texted Susan Nall, who comes up with a lot of our titles, and I'm waiting to hear back from her.

Speaker 1 Maybe you're like the muse. I like that.
So

Speaker 1 I loved the using of the clouds and the weather to sort of set the scene at the top.

Speaker 1 And then it ends with the candles being blown out, which suddenly looks very ominous, which is normally a very happy thing. I thought that was great.

Speaker 1 And the whole idea that, like, you just celebrated this birthday with this sort of star-studded party, and now he's dead. And also, the fact that the killer was at that party.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, it really reads like a mystery novel when you, when you set it up that way, almost like like an Agatha Christie.

Speaker 1 And our crew,

Speaker 3 JP, Julie,

Speaker 3 Isar, they actually went to Party City and bought this party stuff so they could shoot it at the top of a hotel.

Speaker 1 And rented the same room, right?

Speaker 3 Yeah, we just clearly we wanted it to be authentic, to really kind of go back to that place. And they did a really good job, I thought.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 I love how that draws you into the mystery that follows. One of the things that sort of jumped out at me in this episode was sort of how weird the crime scene was.

Speaker 1 Like putting the girlfriend's picture face down at the side of the bed. That says to me, I didn't want to see that woman, right?

Speaker 1 Stopping the clocks, which I guess maybe was to prevent the alarm from going off and somebody finding the body sooner.

Speaker 3 That's what I was thinking about the clocks. Yeah, the crime scene, though, I kept calling it like a game of clue.

Speaker 3 There were so many clues, the wrench and the clocks, as you mentioned, and the photo turned down and the shower.

Speaker 1 The gum wrappers.

Speaker 3 The gum wrappers. I mean, it was like the wrench in the library with Mr.
Plum. I felt like there were so many clues.

Speaker 1 The gum wrappers that were found on the ground.

Speaker 1 I think the first law enforcement theory was that this person is standing outside the house watching him chewing gum, throwing the wrappers on the ground.

Speaker 3 I called it the smoking gum.

Speaker 1 Right, which I thought.

Speaker 3 It didn't make the show.

Speaker 1 I know, but but but i i i do love that i'm applauding here yeah

Speaker 1 so i um

Speaker 1 i used to live in atlanta before this happened i lived there about 40 years ago it's one of my favorites and yeah i like it too i called a friend of mine who lives there and asked if she knew Lance because they sort of ran in the same circles back then.

Speaker 1 And she said

Speaker 1 she hadn't even seen the episode when I talked with her.

Speaker 1 And she was like oh yeah I remember that story I remember he died and he was a huge womanizer that was like the first thing that came out of it and she hadn't even seen your story every date line is a mystery but this one really felt like so many suspects it definitely did because of his sort of crazy social life in which there were all these women who many of whom had a sort of a quite legitimate reason to feel bruised by him and angry at him.

Speaker 3 On the other side, though, people really loved Lance, too. He had some really good friends and they said that he was so welcoming to people to Atlanta and he took care of people.

Speaker 3 And so this is not a guy who's all bad here, Josh. I mean, he clearly had issues with women by nature of being with that many women.

Speaker 3 You know, maybe you're not treating them that well, but you know, it's a two-way street sometimes.

Speaker 3 Dion was married, too, right? So

Speaker 3 what's she doing? Like, she's having an affair on her husband. I think it's

Speaker 3 a little bit of a two-way street as well in some in some situations.

Speaker 1 I will say that one of the great sort of redeeming things about this story is how well Harrison turned out. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Because he seems to be like, he seems to be like living the life that his dad probably would have wanted for him.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Harrison is a sweetheart.
I mean,

Speaker 3 he is such a big personality. That's what I loved about him.
Like right from the get-go, from the moment I met him, he's one of those people you immediately feel at ease with.

Speaker 3 He just has a very bubbly personality and he's really frank about it. And something I thought was interesting was, and I don't know if you noticed in the show, he calls his dad Lance.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I saw that.

Speaker 3 I knew that instead of dad when I asked him, why don't you call him dad?

Speaker 3 And he said he was raised by a stepdad, who he thinks of as a dad, and that Lance, his father, is this larger than life character to him and is so much grander.

Speaker 3 Remember, Harrison was so little when his dad died.

Speaker 3 And so, how he speaks about Lance and how he's shaped his life, even not being here, the way he lives his professional life and going after his dreams.

Speaker 3 So, I thought that was really nice that he still carries him with him in that way.

Speaker 1 When we come back, we have an extra clip from Dion Baugh's Police Interrogation, which is one of the more fun police interrogations I've ever watched.

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Speaker 1 So let's talk some more about Dionne. I mean, it feels like everybody in the episode at one time or another had warned Lance about her.
Like, why are you doing this? This is nuts.

Speaker 1 She's young, and she's, you know, she's clearly swayed by the fact that I'm getting her a Mercedes and I'm showering her with money.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, you have to wonder how genuine is that relationship if it seems like it's based on monetary things.

Speaker 1 She's got this letter

Speaker 1 with her that I guess she thought is going to get her that car.

Speaker 3 That was weird. And in fact,

Speaker 1 in fact, it's like wearing a sandwich board that says, I did it. It's

Speaker 3 just odd.

Speaker 1 Like, who does that?

Speaker 3 And why would anyone believe that?

Speaker 1 Yeah, what are you doing?

Speaker 1 You sort of want to say to Dionne, you were already stalking him. Police already knew that.
He already knew that.

Speaker 3 Like, come on. Obviously, yeah, she's going to be on their radar after that.
I mean, he's found bludgeoned to death in his bed, and everyone says how jealous this woman is.

Speaker 1 So at some point, Dionne is in there for the police interrogation, in which

Speaker 1 I'm going to say, does not realize that she is, that the persona she is showing the cops is more important than the things that are coming out of her mouth because she's telling a story, which later gets picked apart.

Speaker 1 But sort of way she talks about Lance and about money and about what she's owed and who she is.

Speaker 1 That sort of tells you more about Dion

Speaker 1 than any single thing she says.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And also her smiling and you know, oh, is this gonna be on camera? Who talks like that in a police interview room? And also, your boyfriend was just murdered or bludgeoned to death.

Speaker 1 Like, who?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 It's just bizarre behavior all around. Everything was bizarre

Speaker 3 about her. I don't know.

Speaker 1 This feels like a good time to listen to some extra sound that did not make the episode. So let's listen to that.
This is Dionne talking about how she felt fearful after Lance's death.

Speaker 4 There's a part of me, I'm so glad I met him because he was so exciting and he exposed me to a lot of things. But after all this, it's like there's a part of me that I just wish I never knew him.

Speaker 4 Yeah, now that all this has happened, you know, I could understand that. And now I'm having to look over my shoulder, you know.
I won't go to my house in the nighttime because I'm just so afraid.

Speaker 4 I don't know who's watching me. You don't know what's going on.
I don't know what's going to happen.

Speaker 4 It's scary. Scary.
And I don't know if people knew that we were seeing each other. I don't know how many people sell us together.

Speaker 4 You know, you just.

Speaker 1 You have no idea. You know, the interesting thing there is that she's clearly lying.
Now we know that. You know, I was afraid.
The cops are playing along.

Speaker 1 Earlier in that same interrogation, they're lying about the video cameras, and she's playing along.

Speaker 1 It's a nice little dance that's going on there in that little tiny room.

Speaker 3 That's true. I got the impression that she just thought she was smarter or that they would just believe whatever she was selling.

Speaker 1 How many times on Dateline have we seen that? People who sit down in that room and think I'm smarter than these guys who are interrogating me, and they're not. Right.

Speaker 1 You know, she lies on the stand in her divorce trial, or she tells the truth on the stand in the divorce trial, which means she's lying to the cops, but she can't get her story straight.

Speaker 1 And it clearly didn't occur to her that cops are going to be watching both of those things.

Speaker 3 That was a big oopsie.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I loved

Speaker 1 the prosecutor going to the divorce hearing.

Speaker 1 Oh, I know, right?

Speaker 3 Clint shows up like a fly on the wall in the back,

Speaker 3 and she has no idea.

Speaker 1 Clint Rucker,

Speaker 1 when he was a prosecutor, he was the prosecutor in the Tex McIver case, which we covered here on Dateline. And he did a thing, which I,

Speaker 1 in that case, which I think he did in other cases, which is when he's giving, I can't remember whether it's his opening or his summation at the end.

Speaker 1 He had a jar of muddy water, but he shakes it up like a mason jar full of water and dirt. And so it's all muddy.
And he puts it down on the edge of the juror box and he says, this is cloudy.

Speaker 5 By the time I get through with my argument and take my seat, this jar is going to be clear.

Speaker 1 And it's going to be clear just like each and every one of your minds will be clear about the guilt of this defendant.

Speaker 1 And then

Speaker 1 he lays out his case. And that takes an hour or something because it's a long opening or a long summation.
By the end, the silt has settled and you can see through the water. It's a good prop.

Speaker 1 I love it. Well, he had a proposal.
I don't know if he did it in your trial or not.

Speaker 3 He had a prop in this one too. He had the wrench they bought at Home Depot because they never found the murder weapon.

Speaker 3 And Tommy, the former patrol officer, thinks the wrench is at the bottom of the Chattahoochee River.

Speaker 1 Tommy was a good interview. I liked him.

Speaker 3 And you know what? He was so great for this story being so old and that he wasn't one of the detectives on the case, but he knew the case so well, even being a patrolman.

Speaker 1 It was also great that you saw him young, and then you saw him later, too. I love that.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 And that he had that connection showing up when Dion, when he says that he can see Dion's leg. Well, he doesn't know it's Dion, but he sees a leg in the car and he's like, what the heck?

Speaker 3 And then it's Dion.

Speaker 3 And he gets her out of the car. And then he said she just went like

Speaker 3 nuts.

Speaker 1 She's, you know, she's kicking the cake. She's burning.
Yes. Yeah.
Yes. So she's convicted at the first trial.
A couple of years later, her conviction is overturned on appeal. She's retried.

Speaker 1 This time, that does not go to verdict. And they offer her manslaughter and she takes it and she does 10 years.
And Dionne is out now walking around. Yeah.
Any idea what she's been up to?

Speaker 3 No, we were not able to find her. I thought maybe she'd gone back to Jamaica, you know, but no idea.

Speaker 1 Okay, after the break, we will be back to answer some of your questions from social media.

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Speaker 1 So, for the first time on Talking Dateline, we have some audio questions from social media from our viewers, which is a new thing that we're doing.

Speaker 1 So, let's listen to those. So, from Instagram, Ashley Lennington.

Speaker 3 Hi, I was just listening to Deadly Dance, and a silly question popped up for Andrea.

Speaker 3 How does it feel when you are on the plane watching an episode of Dateline that you are featured on? Are you embarrassed if somebody sees you watching Dateline when you're on it?

Speaker 3 Or how does that make you feel?

Speaker 1 I have not had the experience of seeing myself on an airplane.

Speaker 3 The timing was perfect. I was coming home from Salt Lake City last week, and boom, there it was.

Speaker 3 This Dateline aired on the plane on NBC. And yes, there I was watching it.
And I wasn't embarrassed because I don't think anyone knew or was like really paying attention to me or whatever.

Speaker 1 So nobody's pointing at the screen and they're like, is that you? I don't think so.

Speaker 3 But I got to be honest, I really wanted to say to the guy next to me, that's me, that's my show, but would never do that. So, but thank you, Ashley.
Good question. I like it, Ashley.

Speaker 1 And now, next from me to Sampat.

Speaker 3 Has there ever been a news story from the past?

Speaker 3 It doesn't matter what the timeline is, but from the past that you wish Dateline had covered and there wasn't an opportunity to do so?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I can answer that question, which is that sometimes there are stories that we want to do, and the people in them that we need to interview them, they want to get paid.

Speaker 1 That's happened to me once or twice. They want some kind of monetary compensation.
And we do not pay people because one, that changes the story. We're not in that business.

Speaker 1 And you can't, you know, when you pay people, you're sort of saying to them, We expect a great story out of you. And it sort of encourages them to, you know, kind of soup up their account.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, we don't pay people. Yeah, then the whole story falls apart.
All right, let's go to more social media. Joanna F318-94705, which is a very catchy social media handle, Joanna.
Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 3 I will never forget that handle. Yeah,

Speaker 1 I wanted to get that, but apparently, yeah, it wasn't. It was Jacob.
Yeah, that's that's the first one I went after.

Speaker 3 We love you, Joanna.

Speaker 1 She's referring to Lance's phone call telling his friend to take care of herself right before he was killed. And she says, that sounds like a goodbye call, like he knew it was coming.

Speaker 1 I don't think he knew it was coming. Yeah, no,

Speaker 3 but his friends sure thought it was odd.

Speaker 1 I think, in fact, he wasn't suspicious enough because he shouldn't have let that woman into his house.

Speaker 3 Yeah, but she'll never forget that call, and she did think

Speaker 1 it wasn't like him to call out of the blue and talk like that next uh southern beach girl says if you have to designate girlfriends as primary and secondaries i don't want to be on the list yeah i would agree i agree with you southern beach girl absolutely yep Mike H.

Speaker 1 1990 says how horrible for Talana because she tried to warn him as best she could and she did.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's, yeah, she, I mean, I thought of all the people in this that were actually involved in it.

Speaker 1 I'm not counting the son because he was a baby at the time, but I I mean, I mean, she was, you know, she was on the side of the angels. She loved him.
She cared about him. She worked for him.

Speaker 1 She was trying to sort of keep him on the right path.

Speaker 3 And what a great interview, too, I'll say about Tolana. I really enjoyed meeting her,

Speaker 3 really like her as a person.

Speaker 3 She was such a great ad to the show.

Speaker 1 Freekev 22 or Freak EV22, no way to know,

Speaker 1 says, he leased a married woman at Mercedes. How How on earth did her husband not know? That's a good question.
I presume at some point Dion's husband had to cross police radar, right?

Speaker 1 I mean, that's yeah, that's the kind of thing that makes you want to kill somebody is you find out that somebody's not only seeing your wife, but leased their car, right?

Speaker 3 Oh, by the way, Susan Nall responded about that question that we had, remember,

Speaker 1 about the name of the Killer Among Us. The Killer Among Us.

Speaker 3 Susan Nall says, who writes our titles a lot of the time, she said, she did

Speaker 3 come up with with the name based on my question the killer among us wow in the show so i was her muse there you go okay there's your update and you're also mine oh you should put that on your business card

Speaker 3 that's the nicest thing you've ever said to me josh

Speaker 1 That is talking dateline for this week.

Speaker 3 Before we go, you have a new podcast called Deadly Mirage. Yes.

Speaker 1 Tell us about it. This is a story from here in California from about 10 years ago.
There was a whole other life that went on involving open marriage and involving what people would call wife swapping.

Speaker 2 My wife and I and Robin Sabrina would engage in sexual activities.

Speaker 3 If that's what a couple agrees with in their marriage, then that's their business.

Speaker 1 And then there was also infidelity that in this case was not sanctioned. And then there was a murder that came from that.
And it is one hell of a story.

Speaker 1 And one of the amazing things which made a lot of people crazy was the idea that religion was used as sort of a way to not only justify the murder, but also cover it up.

Speaker 3 Look forward to it.

Speaker 1 And that's called Deadly Mirage, and it will be available very shortly.

Speaker 3 Awesome. Thanks, Josh.
This has been fun as always. Andrea, thank you.

Speaker 1 And thanks to everyone for listening to us.

Speaker 1 Remember, if you have any questions for us about our stories or any cases that you think we should cover, you can reach out to us on social at DatelineNBC or send us an audio message for a chance to be featured in our next Talking Dateline episode.

Speaker 1 Also, don't forget to listen to my all-new podcast, which is called Deadly Mirage, and you can start getting episodes for free beginning next Tuesday, December 3rd, or you can subscribe to Dateline Premium and start listening now ad-free wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 See you Fridays on Dateline on NBC.

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