Talking Dateline: Justice for Nikki

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Speaker 3 Hey, it's Dennis Murphy here, and I'm your host for this edition of Talking Dateline. And I'm delighted to say that my colleague Andrea Canning is standing by here too.
Hi, Andrea. How are you?

Speaker 4 Hey, Dennis. I am good.
I'm ready to talk dateline with you.

Speaker 3 I've got to disclose right up front, I am a very soft touch for a well-constructed, well-told, keep me baffled whodunit. And boy, this is one of them.
You guys did a great job with this.

Speaker 3 So if you haven't seen this episode called Justice for Nikki, go find it right now on streaming. It's on the podcast list right below this one.

Speaker 3 Take a look, have a listen, and then come back here for dessert because we're going to do a deep dive with Andrea. So let's talk dateline.
Andrea, who is Nikki and what happened to her?

Speaker 4 So Dennis, just to recap for anyone who hasn't listened to the

Speaker 4 show or seen it, Nikki van der Heyden, she was 31 years old. And back in May of 2016, she was reported missing after a night out in Green Bay, Wisconsin.
Her body was found the next day in a field.

Speaker 4 Detectives quickly turned their attention to her boyfriend, Doug Dietri,

Speaker 4 until forensic evidence, GPS tracking, and of all things, a Fitbit pointed detectives to her real killer. So, this is a case where technology played a massive role in solving this murder.

Speaker 3 Andrea, tell me what a Fitbit is. I think I know.
It's a tracking device you wear in your house. Tell you how many steps you've taken in the day.

Speaker 4 We really called it the silent witness because

Speaker 4 it's not a human being.

Speaker 4 It's a piece of technology, but it showed that Doug, the only place he went during the time that Nikki was murdered was steps within his own house to check on the the baby just you know so many steps i mean from one room his room to another and back and that was it so that that was absolutely not enough steps to murder nikki like it just didn't it didn't add up have you ever had a fitbit gadget yourself dennis if i actually worked out i might have one um but i don't have time to work out but i'm always curious about the the the part about it i do like um is how it records the steps andrea have you ever seen a fitbit show up in any other stories?

Speaker 4 Yeah, I actually had another story that our listeners may remember called The Secrets of Birchview Drive, and that was in Connecticut in 2015. Connie Debate was found murdered in her house.

Speaker 4 It initially appeared to be a home invasion,

Speaker 4 but information that was pulled from Connie's Fitbit showed that her husband, Richard, had lied about what happened the day of her murder.

Speaker 4 The major difference with that case is that the Fitbit pointed toward Richard Debate's involvement in his wife's murder. Whereas in Nikki's case, the Fitbit pointed to her boyfriend Doug's innocence.

Speaker 3 And another part of the story, you think, but Nikki went back to the gym to get in shape after the baby, and he has the Fitbit. He's showing solidarity with Nikki.
Yeah, and that's doing workouts.

Speaker 4 And, you know, and that also shows a nicer side of their relationship as well, that

Speaker 4 you hope, right, that they had moments of happiness together, this couple.

Speaker 4 And maybe that was something that, you know, they happily shared together was getting in shape so it's nice to maybe maybe it's not all doom and gloom between doug and nikki so doug the boyfriend is kind of a newish fella in her life i get the feeling though they had a child almost immediately after meeting she gets pregnant she gets pregnant yeah and um so

Speaker 4 they had a son together and she was a new mom So this is sort of, this is sort of a date night, I get the feeling, huh?

Speaker 3 So they're going to go out with his friends.

Speaker 4 Yeah, like,

Speaker 4 I don't know if you would call it like a date night. They're going out with friends.
You know, she's finally getting back out there in the world.

Speaker 4 And this was her night, you know, to return to some normalcy after having a newborn.

Speaker 4 So the poor thing, you know, just wants to go out, blow off some steam, have a good time, get away from her mom duties for one night. And she meets with evil.

Speaker 3 And your team, Andrew, did such a great job of rounding up the friends who could take us inside her life, get a sense for who she is, and then really follow on video her trail as she heads to her doom.

Speaker 3 In the first bar called A Watering Hole, they're going to hear some music and the camera's rolling. And what do we see in that? They seem to be okay, the two of them.

Speaker 4 Yeah, only they weren't.

Speaker 3 What was the camera not showing us?

Speaker 4 This couple had big problems.

Speaker 4 Even though they had this new baby, text messages would eventually show and also conversations that she had with friends and family that they were not getting along.

Speaker 4 Doug did not want to be in this relationship anymore.

Speaker 3 Complicated relationship, to say the least.

Speaker 4 So they, they weren't getting along that night. You know, she had left because she was upset.
And then the thing that really stung was when, was when she called him.

Speaker 4 He didn't answer. So her friend called from her phone and he did answer.

Speaker 3 So what's going on? He takes a call from the friend, but not from Mickey.

Speaker 4 Yeah, how would you feel if you call and the person you love doesn't answer your call, but they answer the friend's call. Right.
So it's, it doesn't feel good. And that further upset her.

Speaker 3 And again, the cameras are there to show her kind of going away in a huff, right? She's out of the bar. She's by herself.

Speaker 3 So Doug, he goes home, lets the babysitter go, puts the baby to bed, but he doesn't call anybody. The babysitter said something interesting, I think.

Speaker 3 Andrews, how is it that you can go out together and come home alone?

Speaker 4 Yes. I mean, it was almost like the babysitter kind of suspected Doug of something, but.
But that intuition was clearly wrong. But her feeling that something wasn't right was right.

Speaker 3 So word goes through the community that the the body of a woman has been found naked in a field.

Speaker 4 Yeah. And unfortunately, they get the worst news that that body in the field is Nikki.

Speaker 4 And so immediately, Doug comes under suspicion, her boyfriend, that he's done this. And I have never in all my years at Dateline

Speaker 4 seen someone look so much like the killer who was not the killer.

Speaker 3 I totally agree. Tell us what happens when the detectives call at his home, as they do, and they start looking in the vehicle around the house.
What kinds of things are they finding?

Speaker 4 Yeah, they find shoes that could be that print that was on her body.

Speaker 4 They look like the print from Doug's shoes.

Speaker 3 They think they've got blood. They've got signs of a cleanup.
And then they find out the whole history of the bad relationship.

Speaker 4 There were a lot of red flags. So if you're the police and you're seeing all these things before you get all your evidence back and whatnot, I mean,

Speaker 4 it's no surprise that they thought it was Doug Dietrie.

Speaker 3 As they tell you, they're very, very candid about their case. They say we had probable cause and it looked to our best estimate, our experience, that this guy is good for it.

Speaker 4 Yeah, they're police trying to get a killer off the streets, a brutal killer who left a woman beaten to death in a field. And so for them, they're following the evidence.

Speaker 4 You know, so they didn't do anything wrong.

Speaker 4 I mean, I'm sure if you asked Doug Dietrie, he would say they did everything wrong because he's the guy who was sitting in jail who was innocent of this murder.

Speaker 3 What was your takeaway from the friends that you talked to that told their stories about being friends with her?

Speaker 4 Just how much they loved her.

Speaker 3 They seemed really shaken.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Like, you know, that's that is such a

Speaker 4 horrible, horrible thing to have to contend with when your good friend is killed like that.

Speaker 3 And they were divided on to Doug's complicity or not.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I think absolutely some of her friends thought Doug did it. I mean, look, the police think Doug did it.
He's in jail and you knew the situation of the relationship.

Speaker 4 Why wouldn't you think Doug did it? You know, and then, of course, as we know, Doug did not do it. The evidence starts to come back.
The blood in the garage came back as animal blood.

Speaker 4 There was also Nikki's sister's blood found on tissues in a sweatshirt from a nosebleed, which, of course, again, nosebleed, not murder. And they found out.

Speaker 4 um through this insurance tracker that was in the car that her car never left the garage so that was not some a car that was used to, say, transport her body. I mean, the theme of

Speaker 4 this episode, this case, was certainly technology. What solved this case, what proved, helped prove the innocence of one suspect.

Speaker 4 So all through it, the technology kept popping up.

Speaker 3 Okay, after the break, we'll be back with an exclusive clip that didn't make it into the episode.

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Speaker 3 Andrew, let's fast forward through a little bit of time here. You come up in the courthouse, and there in the chair is George Birch.
He's the first person we see in your narration of the trial.

Speaker 3 Yeah, George Birch.

Speaker 3 He's new to town.

Speaker 4 He's new to town.

Speaker 4 And, you know, the people he was that convinced him to move there and people he was living with, they really liked him. You know, they thought he was polite.
They thought he was nice.

Speaker 4 And he had a girlfriend. So he didn't at first seem like a likely suspect to those people.
But I mean, it's hard to refute DNA. I mean, how does your DNA get on a stranger's sock who's dead?

Speaker 3 And he's got a totally different bizarre story, doesn't he?

Speaker 4 Yeah. George Birch decided to take the stand in the trial.

Speaker 4 So George Birch and his attorney went after Doug Dietree and said he was the real killer, that George and Nikki were having consensual sexual relations outside the house.

Speaker 4 And Doug came along and, you know, pistol whipped. George and ended up killing Nikki.
It was a Hail Mary, if you will, for George Birch that didn't, of course, work with the jury.

Speaker 4 But he certainly had that scapegoat, that red herring that he could try to, you know, focus the attention on with Doug. And a lot of defense attorneys will do this.

Speaker 4 They put the attention on someone else. So.

Speaker 3 No surprises. The jury's not out very long, four hours, I think.
They come back and what's the verdict?

Speaker 4 Guilty, which, I mean, to me, it was a no-brainer.

Speaker 4 It wasn't one of those ones where you're on pins and needles. Like, is he going to be found guilty or not? I just thought it was pretty obvious.

Speaker 3 Andrea, after the guilty verdict, you had an exclusive jailhouse interview with George Birch. I can't wait to hear about this.
How did it go?

Speaker 4 This was a good one. I'll say this.
You know, you and I have done a lot of prison interviews. The one with George Birch was probably

Speaker 4 the most combative I've ever had, which you don't necessarily see in the show. I mean, I feel like I hit on all the right points with him, but he.
he was a real piece of work.

Speaker 3 Andrea, I loved your line to him where you said, I'm going to put on my mom hat. And let's talk about the logic of this.
And I said, dude, you're in trouble.

Speaker 3 You know, you ask the tough questions, you don't back down, and you let this guy absolutely have it.

Speaker 4 Many people say that your story is just really bad fiction. That you created this story that would fit the narrative of the evidence.
You already knew about Doug Dietri, that he had been arrested.

Speaker 4 and that you just fabricated this whole thing to work in your favor.

Speaker 2 Everyone's entitled to their opinions.

Speaker 3 If you want to be on the up and up, I don't have a violent past.

Speaker 4 I mean, you have had brushes with the law.

Speaker 3 Have I ever been convicted of anything violent in my life?

Speaker 4 You're no stranger to law enforcement. He was no different from most of the killers that I've interviewed.
You know, I'd say like 98% of them deny that they had anything to do with murder.

Speaker 4 And he denied, denied, denied. Just his arrogance got to me.
But I walked away from that interview like no doubt, no doubt in my mind, did he he kill Nikki? He, he just had that temperament.

Speaker 4 And you can see he's one of those people in the beginning who tries to be nice and charming and everything. And then like they can quickly turn.
And he was one of those guys. And

Speaker 4 I fully believe that she rebuffed his advances and she said no.

Speaker 4 And he snapped. And, you know, I could see it with my own eyes how that man could snap.

Speaker 3 And you could see how smoldering he was. He was ready to leap.

Speaker 4 Oh, he was getting mad, like really, really mad.

Speaker 4 And he was, he was trying to turn things around in my direction. So he was trying to play the interviewer with me.
And I was like, I remember my face was kind of turning red. Like he was getting mad.

Speaker 4 I was getting mad. And I actually walked out on the interview at the end.
Usually it's the interviewee who will walk out on you if you're questions.

Speaker 3 Exactly.

Speaker 4 I walked out on him. Okay.
All right. That's it.
Anything else you want to say?

Speaker 1 No, ma'am.

Speaker 3 Okay. You have a good day.

Speaker 3 They find that this George Birch has been involved in some sort of a homicide incident back in Virginia years before.

Speaker 4 He was acquitted in this homicide incident in Virginia.

Speaker 4 But

Speaker 4 that prior homicide charge, which he was acquitted on,

Speaker 4 that provided the DNA in CODIS. So that created the link.
And the family of the victim, Joey White, back in Virginia,

Speaker 4 they were very upset because George Birch was acquitted of that crime, which they felt that he should not. So they tended George Birch's trial for the murder of Nikki.

Speaker 4 And we have some extra sound from them that did not make our original broadcast. So let's take a listen to that.
The verdict was read and it was guilty. How were you feeling?

Speaker 4 It was very emotional, very emotional. Was thinking a lot about Joey and

Speaker 1 Nicole and just

Speaker 4 it was very emotional. You even paid a visit to Nikki's grave? Yes.

Speaker 3 We laid a little heart plaque there.

Speaker 4 You know, I felt we needed to. So these are two women who don't even know Nikki, but they felt personally attached to Nikki's case as well because they wanted to see George Birch go down.

Speaker 4 Whether if it wasn't for their loved one, Joey, then it would be for Nikki.

Speaker 3 And trials in the criminal justice system, of course, can never bring back the loved one.

Speaker 3 But I've seen again and again, and I'm sure you have too, how important it is to friends and families to be able to lay hands on these verdicts and understand that it's there is a resolution to it.

Speaker 3 Somebody cared enough to find out. And I think that's the tale told by these young women.
This event had happened years before. Yeah.
And they just wanted to see him pay for it.

Speaker 4 Right. So it was like partial justice, right? If you will, for the family members.
Like at least he got something.

Speaker 4 That's how they felt in this case that, you know, justice was being done just in a different way.

Speaker 3 Well, now we're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back to answer your questions from social media.

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Speaker 3 Andrea, we always ask our viewers what they thought of an episode, and our social media, we get some fascinating responses. You add a lot to this one.
A lot of people took it to heart.

Speaker 3 It was such a sad story, huh?

Speaker 4 It was. It really was.

Speaker 3 We had

Speaker 3 Camille asking on Facebook, Why didn't they look into the boot mark on her back? Well, they did look into it.

Speaker 3 It was a shoemaker. What does she need to know about that bit of technical evidence?

Speaker 4 Yeah, it was a shoe mark.

Speaker 4 And that was initially with Doug Dietree,

Speaker 4 they found shoes in his house that looked like they could be that a matching tread that was on Nikki,

Speaker 4 but the shoe mark was inconclusive.

Speaker 4 I am not sure if they were able to prove that it was George Birch's shoe. I don't have the answer to that because they had

Speaker 4 so much powerful evidence with the DNA and the Google Dashboard that I don't, I don't know where the shoe fit in in the end.

Speaker 3 And you heard from people that had met Nikki and they'd affected her in their lives. One of them said on our Facebook, Nikki was so funny, the teacher.
She once wrapped a science book of rhyme to us.

Speaker 3 Can you just see her? It really evokes who Nikki is.

Speaker 4 I love that. I love.
I mean, who doesn't remember teachers like that? You know, that come up with creative ways to teach the kids and just put themselves out there, right?

Speaker 4 That, I mean, that takes a special teacher who can do that. And her students loved her.
And she loved being a teacher. She taught biology.
You know, she, oh, she was,

Speaker 4 no one had a bad word to say about Nikki.

Speaker 3 Carrie M on Facebook has a good but probably unanswerable question: What was George's motive?

Speaker 4 I think what the prosecution believed was that she rebuffed him, you know, his sexual advances, and he snapped.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 I saw that in him. I saw that anger in my interview.
And I truly felt that he

Speaker 4 doesn't like women or doesn't like women questioning him. I mean, would he have felt the same way if I was a man questioning him? Maybe.

Speaker 4 But I felt that like that just like evil was looking at me during that interview.

Speaker 3 We saw a flare-up of that same trait in the stand. The prosecutor got to him.

Speaker 4 Yeah. And I'll say it again: you know, we didn't show the whole interview in prison with George.
We can't, you know, in our in our show.

Speaker 4 Um, we really tried to hit on, stay focused on the evidence and his story. But I mean, you could see it.
And that's why I walked out on that interview.

Speaker 3 And so many of the Facebook responders were telling us how sad they were to hear this story. Yeah.
Enjoyed, enjoyed your reporting, but it just made them feel very bad.

Speaker 4 It was because, again, she's a, she's a new mom. And then you think about her three children and that they will grow up without their great mom and that her life had to end that way.

Speaker 4 Just imagine her final moments.

Speaker 4 And her baby is just,

Speaker 4 just, you know, just on the other, on the other side of the wall, right, in that house. And her boyfriend is in that house, but...
they're sleeping. He's sleeping.

Speaker 3 He doesn't know what's happening, but she's so close,

Speaker 4 you know, to

Speaker 3 her front door is right there.

Speaker 4 And no one knows what she's going through and that she's being killed.

Speaker 3 Andrew, Andrew, was this a tough one for you to do, to dive into the material here?

Speaker 4 Yeah, absolutely. Because,

Speaker 4 you know, I had a baby at that time. And, you know, I have six children.

Speaker 4 And to think of that time when you have a newborn and you're breastfeeding and, you know, you just want to go out and be normal again for a night as a mom and, you know, get away from all of that just for a minute, you know, to feel normal and like you're back out with your friends and society.

Speaker 4 You know, that's exciting to get out again and to have it end that way for her in such a like,

Speaker 4 oh, gosh, like the happenstance of something so horrific.

Speaker 3 And with that, Andrea, I think we'll button up this edition of Talking Dayline. Good job.
You know, as always, thank you. Thank you for taking us through it.

Speaker 4 Thank you. And Jay Young did a great job producing this episode.
True. Truly.
Very thorough, thorough producer who worked tirelessly on this story. And I truly believe that Jay

Speaker 4 and all of Nikki's friends and family did such a good job honoring her as a person and

Speaker 4 really highlighting what a great mom she was, what a great teacher she was, daughter, sister. You know,

Speaker 4 this was a special woman.

Speaker 3 And that all came through. That all came through.
Absolutely. And that's talking dateline for this week.

Speaker 3 Remember, if you have any questions for us or stories about Dateline, you can reach out to us on social media at Dateline NBC.

Speaker 3 Also, be sure to check out the newest season of our podcast, Dateline Missing in America, featuring missing person cases brought to our attention by our followers on social media.

Speaker 3 Listen now wherever you get your podcast.

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