The Feud

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Speaker 10 My phone rang. She's like, Christy, I need you to sit down.
And I'm like, oh no. Well, this is never a good thing.

Speaker 11 Praise the Lord for this country.

Speaker 10 He loved being out in nature. He felt happy there.

Speaker 12 Everybody was family up there.

Speaker 13 What was the main thing you would get called in there for?

Speaker 14 People trying to access private land.

Speaker 15 On private property without permission.

Speaker 10 It was really hard for him to swallow that.

Speaker 14 The neighbors felt he was a bully.

Speaker 16 And he stated that the next time I see Tim Newman, I'm going to push him down.

Speaker 10 She's like, I'm sorry, your dad was shot.

Speaker 18 Tim is dead. It's him or me, and I shot him.

Speaker 19 He asserted it's self-defense.

Speaker 21 Joe said he came at me with a gun, and I didn't have a choice.

Speaker 22 I believe he murdered him.

Speaker 23 Murder. This really all came down to what the body told you.

Speaker 25 Absolutely.

Speaker 26 The story didn't make sense to us.

Speaker 10 Who is this guy that can just steal such a beautiful soul from this world?

Speaker 29 There are still places in America so peaceful, God must have been smiling.

Speaker 31 Like this place in Montana, the Bob Marshall Wilderness.

Speaker 8 More than a million natural acres just south of Glacier National Park, the humans here, merely a small pale stain on the fringes of a paradise.

Speaker 38 Strange that a person up here would feel so tense.

Speaker 22 We always knew that something was going to happen.

Speaker 40 But there was no question about it.

Speaker 28 Sue De La Rosa was a worried woman.

Speaker 22 We just didn't know who was going to be on the receiving end of it.

Speaker 40 Yes, there was trouble, big trouble.

Speaker 43 Sue and her husband Dan could feel it in their bones.

Speaker 41 And this had been such a happy place.

Speaker 1 For nearly a century, people have been coming here to hunt and fish, ride the trails, summer, winter, whenever.

Speaker 45 Where are you guys staying?

Speaker 30 Families like the Dela Rosas bought small lots and built cabins downhill from the public lands.

Speaker 30 Around an old dude ranch called the Diamond Bar X.

Speaker 12 It was a place to get away from your daily grind and go up on the weekends and let your hair down and have fun.

Speaker 30 With no boundaries, I'm assuming.

Speaker 12 That was exactly right.

Speaker 37 Harmony, community were the rule.

Speaker 31 In fact, in 2001, Sue and Dan were married up here by everybody's favorite waterfall.

Speaker 12 We invited everybody. It was a fun place to be, and everybody was family up there.

Speaker 3 Oh, how they loved it.

Speaker 11 Praise the Lord for this country.

Speaker 5 Tim Newman loved it too.

Speaker 35 Tim's daughter, Christy.

Speaker 10 My dad was a real mountain man. You know, he loved being out in nature and sleeping under the stars without a tent.

Speaker 50 That's what made him happy.

Speaker 35 Tim and his wife Jackie were fixing up a cabin of their own here.

Speaker 26 I felt so blessed.

Speaker 52 We were blessed.

Speaker 38 Or were before the trouble.

Speaker 51 It was that business about the land that started it.

Speaker 54 One of the neighbors, who'd always used the land and the trails like everybody else, managed to buy up hundreds of acres for himself, smack dab between all those little cottages and the vast public wilderness up on the mountain.

Speaker 28 And then he refused to allow anybody to use the generations-old trails connecting their cottages to the forest.

Speaker 37 This is him.

Speaker 2 His name is Joe Campbell.

Speaker 6 How'd you feel about that?

Speaker 46 Not happy.

Speaker 58 Not good.

Speaker 12 That was like they were, it was like they were taking something away that was mine all along. I mean, you felt violated.
It's like, really? Why would you do that?

Speaker 35 Deputy Brent Colbert responded often.

Speaker 60 Any one particular name you began to hear about more than others?

Speaker 14 Yeah, Mr. Campbell.

Speaker 61 What was the neighbors' feeling about him?

Speaker 14 The neighbors felt he was a bully.

Speaker 2 Not only neighbors, mind you.

Speaker 15 On private property without permission.

Speaker 62 We are.

Speaker 31 This is 2008.

Speaker 35 Joe Campbell confronting a visiting hunting party.

Speaker 13 You're on our property.

Speaker 7 Your pin was. For about three-quarters of a f ⁇ ing mile.

Speaker 35 Joe was wielding a high-powered shotgun called a street sweeper

Speaker 37 developed for riot control and combat.

Speaker 62 It's quite a weapon you're carrying. Are you threatened?

Speaker 47 Do a little bird hunting.

Speaker 62 That ain't a bird gun.

Speaker 43 Then there was the time Joe barged into a De La Rosa family reunion, the family said, claiming one of their cars was blocking a road.

Speaker 12 Screaming, yelling, profanities, you know, just being an absolute jerk.

Speaker 63 The De La Rosas wrote a letter to the county attorney asking him to do something about Joe before somebody got hurt.

Speaker 59 They were advised that the property disputes were a civil matter.

Speaker 36 So then some of the families sued and years later made a deal with Joe that gave them the right to cross his land.

Speaker 35 Joe put up signs listing the people granted access.

Speaker 20 Oh, we saw some deer.

Speaker 65 Yeah.

Speaker 35 Thing was, not everybody could afford to join the lawsuit.

Speaker 30 Tim Newman, for example.

Speaker 10 So it was really hard for him to kind of swallow that. He wasn't accepting of it at all.

Speaker 11 There's Dan up there leading the way.

Speaker 66 Anyway, he figured his God-given right to use those trails superseded any earthbound lawsuit.

Speaker 37 It's just a gate to annoy us, is the way I think, because it's annoying.

Speaker 61 Yes, Tim Newman was convinced.

Speaker 33 He had a natural right to cross Campbell's land on long-used traditional trails into the very public national forest.

Speaker 11 Campbell lives somewhere over there. We're not going that way.

Speaker 43 By late September 2013, tension was,

Speaker 59 well, was tense.

Speaker 33 Tim challenging Joe.

Speaker 53 Joe increasingly angry.

Speaker 51 Threats flying back and forth.

Speaker 51 Then it was hunting season and here a brief calm Tim and a hunting friend avoided Joe Campbell's land okay here we are cutting trails

Speaker 11 hunting season 2013 she's a getting pretty

Speaker 31 later that week Tim left a voicemail for his daughter Christy

Speaker 10 and he was telling me about a bear he'd just gotten he'd been wanting to get a bear for a long time and he finally got the bear

Speaker 61 what's the old saying Sometimes you get the bear, sometimes, well, you know the rest.

Speaker 40 Oh, by the way, everybody but the bear lived that day.

Speaker 24 But not for long.

Speaker 24 911, what is your emergency?

Speaker 21 There were shots fired and one of them was down.

Speaker 32 A shooting up on the mountain.

Speaker 29 But who was the victim? And who was the shooter?

Speaker 10 She's like, Christy, I need you to sit down. And I'm like, oh no.
Well, this is never a good thing.

Speaker 3 And a puzzle for the sheriff.

Speaker 6 Two guns, one angry man.

Speaker 19 It was just plain, I thought he was going to shoot me, so I shot first.

Speaker 35 On a Friday afternoon, October 2013,

Speaker 61 a sheriff's deputy raced 20 miles from the small town of Augusta, Montana

Speaker 5 to the edge of the Bob Marshall Wilderness.

Speaker 21 We need the Lutheran Clark County Sheriff to get...

Speaker 6 There'd been a 911 call.

Speaker 4 Reports of shots fired.

Speaker 6 A man down.

Speaker 53 And when the deputy finally pulled to a stop, he found Joe Campbell standing behind the gate he'd built to block the trail to public lands.

Speaker 6 And just 10 feet away, sprawled in the dirt, there was Tim Newman.

Speaker 35 The deputy ripped open Newman's shirt, saw a gunshot wound to the chest, and that it was too late.

Speaker 10 My phone rang, and she's like, Christy, I need you to sit down.

Speaker 59 Tim's daughter got a call from her aunt.

Speaker 10 And I'm like, oh no, this is never a good thing.

Speaker 10 And I just immediately said, no. I'm like, no, no.
Like, I don't want it. I don't want you to tell me what you're about to tell me.
No. Like, no.
And she's like, I'm sorry, your dad was shot.

Speaker 10 Tim is dead.

Speaker 55 Tim Newman was 53 when he died beneath the big sky he loved.

Speaker 72 I was floored. I was stunned.

Speaker 22 We always knew with the guns being pulled that something was going to happen. We just didn't know who was going to be on the receiving end of it.

Speaker 73 It's a beautiful area.

Speaker 19 And as you're driving there, you're thinking, how could anybody who lives in such splendor

Speaker 19 be so angry?

Speaker 13 Sheriff Leo Dutton responded to the scene just after his deputies and found Joe Campbell in the back of a patrol vehicle.

Speaker 14 Buddy, sir.

Speaker 46 Hi there.

Speaker 14 Sheriff Denton.

Speaker 19 We had to take his story at face value because nothing else

Speaker 19 seemed to miss.

Speaker 54 And what was that story?

Speaker 19 It was just plain, I thought he was going to shoot me, so I shot first.

Speaker 6 Made sense.

Speaker 30 Tim Newman's 357 Magnum was found on the ground, not far from his right hand.

Speaker 31 And the sheriff knew that Tim Newman had been baiting the bear, fighting Joe Campbell's rules about who could or couldn't couldn't cross his land.

Speaker 43 He carried a video camera with him.

Speaker 73 This is what you have to go through with this gate.

Speaker 38 Tim, bold as brass, had been cutting padlocks, which Joe Campbell used to lock his gates.

Speaker 14 When I first talked to Mr. Newman about this, he admitted to cutting those locks and said that he was going to continue to do that.

Speaker 14 And I said, well, I guess if that's the case, me and you are probably going to be pretty good friends because I'll see you quite often.

Speaker 8 Did you charge Tim Newman?

Speaker 47 I did.

Speaker 14 I did.

Speaker 60 You wrote up tickets for him.

Speaker 14 I did for criminal mischief to the locks and gates that he was cutting and destroying.

Speaker 11 Saw a mountain lion.

Speaker 66 Tim thought the charges would put him in front of a judge where he would finally have a chance to set the record straight and preserve what he believed to be his natural right to use the trails across Joe's land to the very public national forest.

Speaker 46 But...

Speaker 2 Just days before the shooting, the county attorney dismissed all the charges against Tim, saying it was not a criminal matter, but a civil one, which Tim Newman took as tacit permission to keep cutting the locks.

Speaker 20 Did you ever say, Tim, but this is not a good way to go?

Speaker 46 Yeah, we did.

Speaker 60 I mean, you go out and cut somebody's locks, they're not going to be a happy camper, right?

Speaker 39 Yes.

Speaker 56 Which leads us back to the gate, where Tim Newman now lay dead.

Speaker 35 And Joe Campbell was telling sheriff's deputies a story.

Speaker 31 He and his wife, Tanny, were walking up the trail toward their property, said Joe, when Tim started following them on his ATV.

Speaker 64 They were frightened, he said.

Speaker 54 They hurried to his gate, slipped through it.

Speaker 27 And then as Joe sent his wife to call the sheriff, he said, Tim got out of his ATV and approached the gate with a pair of bolt cutters.

Speaker 43 Then, said Joe, Tim leaned down to the padlock in the gate and noticed Joe was wearing a pistol on his hip.

Speaker 75 He said, oh, you're armed, and he started putting the bolt cutter down. And then he started putting both hands on his gun and coming up.
And that's when I drew my gun.

Speaker 75 I shot, and he was turning around. I thought I'd hit him, but I wasn't sure.
And he spun around, and he still had the gun in his hands, and he was going down.

Speaker 75 I shot him again in the

Speaker 75 back, and I was ready to shoot again, and then he dropped the gun and he rolled over.

Speaker 75 And then he got up on his elbow and he said, You shouldn't have done that, Joe.

Speaker 64 So that was Joe Campbell's story.

Speaker 29 He was threatened, so he shot Tim Newman twice.

Speaker 30 First in the chest and then in the back.

Speaker 19 We didn't arrest him because he asserted its self-defense, and Montana now has a law that you don't have any duty to run. If you feel threatened, then you can protect yourself with deadly force.

Speaker 64 So essentially, shoot first and figure it out later. Yes.

Speaker 65 And

Speaker 59 figuring it out would take time.

Speaker 75 I can walk home. Well, we'll give you right.

Speaker 5 So Joe Campbell was sent home that very day.

Speaker 4 And Tim Newman's body was taken away for an autopsy.

Speaker 55 When, of course, science would enter the story.

Speaker 42 Science as glorious as all outdoors to bat away foolish human vanities.

Speaker 24 This really all came down to what the body told you.

Speaker 25 Absolutely.

Speaker 34 But Tim's neighbors had already decided.

Speaker 77 They were, why isn't he in jail? He shot a person.

Speaker 19 Why didn't we do something?

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Speaker 31 In the days after Tim Newman was shot dead, Joe Campbell went back to his home on top of the mountain, while many of his downhill neighbors let the death dissuade them from visiting their cabins on the land they loved.

Speaker 61 But not Dan and Sue De La Rosa.

Speaker 12 If all the neighbors had run and hid and not come up to the mountain and stayed at home, then hell, he won.

Speaker 72 Then he's got the whole place to himself, which is what he wanted originally. And so we said, we're going.

Speaker 22 This was our paradise. And even though it was shattered, we weren't willing to walk away.

Speaker 57 And many neighbors vented to the sheriff about Joe Campbell.

Speaker 77 They were, why isn't he in jail? He shot a person.

Speaker 19 Why didn't we do something about it? Yeah.

Speaker 19 But there's a Montana law that guides our behavior.

Speaker 41 So the question became one of intent.

Speaker 59 Yes.

Speaker 27 If you intend to defend yourself, you're within the law.

Speaker 60 If you intend to kill somebody because he's a pain in the ass, against the law.

Speaker 79 Yeah.

Speaker 19 They make him a recream for that. I mean, you don't need to shoot people for that.

Speaker 5 But which was it in this case, self-defense or murder?

Speaker 35 Remember, Joe Campbell claimed Tim Newman confronted him, leveled a gun at him.

Speaker 2 So, Campbell was within his rights to fire first.

Speaker 75 I shot, and he was turning around, I thought.

Speaker 6 That second shot in the back was half reflex, half fear.

Speaker 79 He said, Make sure he got the guy who threatened him.

Speaker 75 I shot him again in the back part of the.

Speaker 54 Except, this was curious.

Speaker 51 Tim was left-handed.

Speaker 2 But his gun was found lying on the ground near his right hand.

Speaker 51 And Tim's gun hadn't been fired.

Speaker 79 So if he had the drop on Joe as Campbell said he did, how did Joe get a shot off before Tim could pull the trigger?

Speaker 6 The puzzle landed on the desks of Deputy Attorneys General Mary Kokenauer and Dan Gaczynski.

Speaker 80 I think Mary and I both feel like most Montanans feel that we have an absolute right to defend ourselves.

Speaker 80 I think the challenge is to try to ferret out when there's a justifiable homicide versus a situation where they wanted to commit murder and they used the justifiable use of force to get away with murder.

Speaker 55 The two prosecutors had to decide which applied in this case.

Speaker 75 He looked at me and he said, oh, your arm.

Speaker 35 They'd heard Joe Campbell's side of the story, but the only story Tim Newman could tell would come from his autopsy.

Speaker 6 This really all came down to what the body told you, what the wounds told you, right?

Speaker 25 Absolutely.

Speaker 26 And from that autopsy, we learned that there were two shots to Tim Newman. One shot was to the back, severed his spine, and it would have paralyzed him instantly from mid-chest down.

Speaker 81 The other shot hit his hand first

Speaker 25 and then skimmed his chest and whizzed past his head.

Speaker 33 And to the prosecutors, the angle of those shots strongly suggested that the first shot could have been in Tim Newman's back.

Speaker 81 So it told us that the story that Joe Campbell had told law enforcement that he had shot into Tim Newman as Tim Newman was rising up with his own gun

Speaker 26 physically didn't work out from a common sense level.

Speaker 72 This is your Miranda Warren.

Speaker 31 They called Joe in for a second interview when, again, he said Tim was the aggressor, chasing Joe and his wife with his ATV.

Speaker 84 Tanny was scared, really scared. I asked Tanny twice, I said, maybe you should just go home and call the sheriff.

Speaker 84 She didn't want to leave.

Speaker 34 But she did, said Joe.

Speaker 61 And that's when Tim came at him.

Speaker 84 And all of a sudden, out comes a gun. Can I stop you for just a second? Because I had one question.
I don't want to forget it.

Speaker 84 You're saying that you're really fearful, but I was just wondering why you stay and don't take off.

Speaker 84 Well, we're on our own property, and

Speaker 84 I didn't think, I guess I was hoping that he wouldn't do anything.

Speaker 28 Instead, said Joe, Tim walked right up to the gate and him

Speaker 84 and then pulls a pistol up.

Speaker 42 Then Joe Campbell's story changed.

Speaker 38 Right after it happened, Joe quoted Tim as saying, oh, you're armed?

Speaker 84 Now he claimed Tim pointed a gun right at him and said, shoot him first, something like that, and then cut the lock.

Speaker 81 Shoot first. Well, certainly that statement about shoot first or cut the locks, I think he's trying to show that Tim Newman

Speaker 25 verbally told him that he was going to shoot him.

Speaker 26 And before that, there was nothing.

Speaker 4 And about that thought that the angles of the shots suggested the first shot was a shot in the back?

Speaker 3 No, no, said Joe.

Speaker 37 Didn't happen. Not long after, they sent Joe home again and wondered what was the truth and what wasn't.

Speaker 5 They really couldn't be sure.

Speaker 83 In the end, we really needed a shooting reconstructionist and reconstruct the shooting at the scene.

Speaker 35 But that reconstruction would have to wait for one of those only in Montana reasons.

Speaker 26 Right after Tim Newman had been shot, there had been a big snowstorm and the crime scene had been under snow that whole winter and we had to wait until May to get him up to the crime scene so he could do his work.

Speaker 79 And so, once again, it was springtime in Montana.

Speaker 35 And the answer, pure and mindless as the first tiny blossoms, rose up from the greening soil.

Speaker 47 It was murder.

Speaker 34 Pure and simple.

Speaker 39 Yes.

Speaker 35 How did they know eight months after the fact?

Speaker 13 And how would they prove it to a jury?

Speaker 34 Different sort of science altogether, that.

Speaker 3 In the old West, it was the lowest thing you could do.

Speaker 32 He shot him in the back in cold blood?

Speaker 25 He admits that he shot him in the back.

Speaker 29 And if that was the first shot, then this was murder.

Speaker 16 He stated that the next time I see Tim Newman, I'm going to push him down.

Speaker 17 I'm going to put him down, Lamont.

Speaker 72 Those were his words.

Speaker 38 Montana State Capitol in Helena.

Speaker 27 February 2016.

Speaker 53 Into the old Supreme Court chambers

Speaker 69 came a small, elderly man.

Speaker 35 Joe Campbell, 70 years old, was charged with murder.

Speaker 64 Deliberate homicide, they call it here.

Speaker 28 Accused of killing Tim Newman in cold blood.

Speaker 10 It just made me wonder how it had gotten to this point where someone died.

Speaker 35 Worse, of breaking the unwritten code of the West.

Speaker 60 You're accusing this man of doing probably the lowest thing you can do in Western mythology, shoot a man in the back.

Speaker 31 Is that what he did, really?

Speaker 32 He shot him in the back in cold blood?

Speaker 25 He admits that he shot him in the back.

Speaker 52 But was it Campbell's first shot or his second?

Speaker 63 That could make the difference between murder and self-defense.

Speaker 83 This was not a justified killing and the state of Montana is going to ask that you find Joe Campbell guilty of deliberate homicide.

Speaker 27 Remember the crime scene expert who had to wait for the snow to melt to make his calculations?

Speaker 37 This is him.

Speaker 58 My job was to independently investigate what could have happened at this particular crime scene.

Speaker 71 William Schneck, a forensic scientist.

Speaker 34 What he did was try, with an assistant helping, to reenact events as Joe Campbell claimed they had happened.

Speaker 27 Lining up body positioning, track of the bullets, that sort of thing.

Speaker 30 And?

Speaker 25 Were you able to reconstruct the scene as Mr.

Speaker 87 Campbell said it had happened?

Speaker 58 No, I was not able to do that for for either shot.

Speaker 79 But guess what did line up?

Speaker 4 The shots in the opposite order that Campbell had claimed.

Speaker 58 My opinion is Mr. Campbell shoots Mr.
Newman in the back as he's running from the gate. At that point, he falls to the ground on his back in the death position.

Speaker 21 At that time, Mr.

Speaker 58 Campbell takes the second shot. a grazing shot over the hand and across the chest, missing the head.

Speaker 27 Look at it, said the scientist.

Speaker 41 With Tim felled by the first bullet to the back, the second bullet travels south to north, grazing his vest, nicking his hand, and zipping right past his head.

Speaker 4 The only way it could have happened.

Speaker 3 Was he right?

Speaker 59 Why not call a legend to confirm it?

Speaker 8 Legendary expert, that is.

Speaker 26 The state calls Dr. Werner Spitz.

Speaker 31 Dr.

Speaker 28 Werner Spitz literally wrote the book on forensic pathology.

Speaker 6 He even brought the book to court.

Speaker 88 I can only tell you this, that if weight has a meaning by way of quality, then this is nine pounds and a quarter.

Speaker 65 Okay.

Speaker 65 All right.

Speaker 79 89 years old when he took the stand.

Speaker 34 Dr. Spitz investigated the assassinations of President Kennedy and Dr.

Speaker 2 Martin Luther King and many, many more.

Speaker 64 He testified more recently in the Phil Spector and Casey Anthony trials.

Speaker 27 So, what did Dr.

Speaker 59 Spitz say about this case?

Speaker 87 Just to be clear, Doctor, your opinion is that Mr. Newman was shot in the back as he turned away from the gate, some 10 feet from the gate.

Speaker 88 Yes, that's correct.

Speaker 86 And then he fell to the ground on his back.

Speaker 88 That's correct.

Speaker 25 And then he was shot a second time, landing in this death position.

Speaker 86 And those wounds to the hand line up perfectly.

Speaker 43 The big mystery then, according to the prosecutors, was why?

Speaker 63 Why would Joseph Campbell have shot Tim Newman in cold blood?

Speaker 65 Well,

Speaker 27 remember that video of Campbell taken by a hunting party in 2008?

Speaker 15 On private property without permission.

Speaker 62 We are.

Speaker 35 Prosecutors played it for the jury to show that Campbell wasn't afraid to confront and chase off anybody who dared cross his property, even when he was outnumbered.

Speaker 26 You could see on that video that he was not scared of those hunters.

Speaker 25 And to accept his story that he was terrified of Tim Newman, a man, a neighbor of his that he had known, just seemed implausible.

Speaker 31 Nor was that an isolated incident.

Speaker 80 Your relationship with Mr.

Speaker 89 Campbell, how would you describe that relationship?

Speaker 47 One word, miserable.

Speaker 72 And he looked up at me and he said, I don't know who the f you are, mister, but you're trespassing and I don't ever want to see you again.

Speaker 43 This woman was an Army colonel on leave from Iraq, out on a ride with her father, when they were confronted by Campbell and his shotgun.

Speaker 85 Again, he's like, hey, sweetheart, who are you? Both my dad and I told him to put the gun down.

Speaker 85 We were just trying to go on a horseback ride and I told him I'm like, hey, I have to go back to Iraq tomorrow. But he refused to put the shotgun down.
And then he started waving.

Speaker 85 He's like, this is my property and this is my property and can't be on my property.

Speaker 4 The prosecutors argue that the clearest proof that Joe Campbell intended and planned to kill Tim Newman, his own words.

Speaker 35 Like what he said to the deputy county attorney who declined to prosecute Tim for cutting locks.

Speaker 29 This was days before the shooting.

Speaker 87 He told me that if I wasn't going to take care of Mr. Newman, that he would.

Speaker 68 And this one.

Speaker 12 He did refer to Tim leaving the top of the mountain in a body bag.

Speaker 29 Joe's words to a contractor two days before the shooting.

Speaker 16 He cleared his jacket back from his pistol and touched his side like that. And he stated that the next time I see Tim Newman, I'm going to push him down.

Speaker 17 I'm going to put him down, Lamont.

Speaker 72 Those were his words.

Speaker 25 He said he was gonna kill him, and then he killed him.

Speaker 50 It was murder.

Speaker 35 The rule in Montana is as clear as day: you can defend your castle if you're threatened.

Speaker 59 Absent a threat,

Speaker 79 then murder is what it is.

Speaker 79 And what could Joe Campbell possibly say about that?

Speaker 6 Well, as it turned out,

Speaker 65 lots.

Speaker 65 I was trying to stay alive.

Speaker 65 Someone wanted to.

Speaker 18 It's him or me, and I shot him.

Speaker 65 I did.

Speaker 34 Dramatic testimony from the accused.

Speaker 79 But would a jury believe him?

Speaker 89 So all these people came into court, took an oath, and have lied in front of this jury. Is that right?

Speaker 65 Objection, Your Honor.

Speaker 2 Hey, everybody.

Speaker 4 It's Rob Lowe here.

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Speaker 90 There are new episodes out every Thursday. So subscribe, please, and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 70 Point of view can change everything, can't it?

Speaker 21 Perspective.

Speaker 2 Even in the crisp, clear Montana air, we're here inside the grand old courtroom.

Speaker 33 The view was about to get decidedly hazier.

Speaker 92 It's about self-defense.

Speaker 92 That's what this case is about.

Speaker 55 This is Joe Campbell's attorney, Greg Jackson, who wanted the jury to see a justifiable shooting by a terrified man in fear for his own life.

Speaker 92 As Joe Campbell looked into that barrel, he was faced with the horrifying decision at that point.

Speaker 92 Try to stay alive

Speaker 92 or die.

Speaker 74 All that fancy forensic testimony bolstered by legendary forensic pathologist Dr.

Speaker 2 Werner Spitz to show Joe first jot Tim in the back, just spin, said the defense.

Speaker 68 Besides, the defense had its own legend, pathologist Dr. Vincent DeMayo, who wrote the book on gunshot wounds and said.

Speaker 58 You have to have some description as to where the shooter is, and then you can say this is consistent, or no, no, it's not consistent at all.

Speaker 6 And in this case, Dr.

Speaker 41 DeMayo came to a far different conclusion than the prosecution experts.

Speaker 59 There is nothing to disprove Mr. Campbell's story.

Speaker 35 Dr.

Speaker 63 DeMayo offered his own theory that Tim could have been jumping or falling backwards when the first bullet hit his hand and chest and then the second shot hit him in the back.

Speaker 41 Dueling experts?

Speaker 43 Maybe they'd canceled each other.

Speaker 35 But if Joe Campbell was going to walk out of the courtroom a free man, the defense had to hope the jury perceived him and her in a favorable way.

Speaker 21 Joe Campbell's my husband.

Speaker 68 And so here was Tanny Converse, Joe Campbell's wife.

Speaker 59 And how long have you two been married?

Speaker 21 23 years.

Speaker 41 And the only other survivor of that confrontation on the hill.

Speaker 7 So far you've heard that Joe Campbell was a bully. And there isn't any right-of-way through here.

Speaker 31 That he was a threatening, mean, and dangerous old man, unafraid and aggressive.

Speaker 53 But Tanny told the jury that in the weeks before the shooting, it was Tim Newman driving a pickup who confronted them as they walked to their horse pasture.

Speaker 21 He said, Joe and Tanny, I finally found you.

Speaker 21 Joe just said, Tim,

Speaker 21 we've given you a notice that you're not welcome on our place. Please don't harass us.

Speaker 43 Were you afraid of him when you were next to the robber?

Speaker 21 I was startled. Joe just said, let's go.
And he just hollered

Speaker 21 out his window,

Speaker 21 come on let's just get it over with right now

Speaker 30 and then he did drive off and that's why she said she and Joe were afraid of Tim and why on October 18th as she and Joe walked toward home they were alarmed to see Tim coming up behind them what were the things that made you believe that he was going to physically harm you Well, if he was just wanting to cut the lock, why would he chase us up the hill?

Speaker 21 Why would he do that? We were watching him. He was on his ATV and he was off his ATV and he was grabbing the bolt cutters.
He was unpredictable. He was highly agitated.

Speaker 58 So, what do you and Joe decide to do next?

Speaker 21 Joe just kept saying, You need to try to get out of here. You need to try to get safe.
You need to try to get home. You need to call the sheriff.

Speaker 65 I didn't want to leave, Joe.

Speaker 33 But she did leave, she said, and on her way to calling 911, heard gunshots, placed the call, rushed back, and...

Speaker 21 I saw Joe standing at the gate, and he said he came at me with a gun, and I didn't have a choice.

Speaker 21 And I saw Mr. Newman lying on the ground.

Speaker 51 In their sometimes intense cross-examination, prosecutors pointed out, not so gently, that elements of Tanny's story had changed also from previous interviews

Speaker 44 but altered or not her story was emotional

Speaker 93 as was joe campbell's call joe campbell to the stand

Speaker 76 so kindly and sometimes frightened grandfather of seven or neighborhood bully the man who brandished weapons at neighbors and strangers alike the defense set about changing perceptions on private property without permission the neighbors the hunters did you threaten threaten him with a shotgun, anything of that nature?

Speaker 18 No, just they were trespassing. I asked for leave.

Speaker 65 The Army Colonel and her father ever point a shotgun at him?

Speaker 72 No, sir.

Speaker 2 But there was no getting around the fact that he told the deputy D.A.

Speaker 35 he was going to take care of Tim Newman himself.

Speaker 2 Couldn't be more than one way to perceive that.

Speaker 30 Could there?

Speaker 18 We were going to take a legal action. We were really frustrated.

Speaker 72 I was really frustrated.

Speaker 59 Legal action?

Speaker 51 That's how he intended to take care of Tim Newman, said Joe.

Speaker 31 He was just a peaceful, frustrated man, he said.

Speaker 35 And he was terrified when Tim Newman chased Tandy and him up the hill in a rage that day in October 2013.

Speaker 3 Man had murder in his eyes, said Joe.

Speaker 18 It's hard to stand up here and say in front of everybody, but I was trying to stay alive.

Speaker 18 You were me, and I shot him.

Speaker 65 I did.

Speaker 28 Had Joe Campbell succeeded in changing the jury's perception?

Speaker 56 Before Mr.

Speaker 27 Campbell could leave the witness stand, prosecutor Dan Gaczinski got a chance to cross-examine him and again present the bully of the mountain.

Speaker 66 The neighbors said they knew all too well.

Speaker 89 Lamont Moultray says that approximately two, three days before you shot and killed Mr.

Speaker 80 Newman, that you told him, I am going to put him down.

Speaker 80 Did you say that to Mr. Moultray?

Speaker 14 I did not.

Speaker 89 So all these people came into court, took an oath, and have lied in front of this jury. Is that right?

Speaker 65 Objection, Your Honor.

Speaker 64 Ultimately, the prosecutor said, Joe Campbell could have avoided a confrontation.

Speaker 30 Could have, but did not, because he wanted it.

Speaker 89 All you have to do to save your wife, to save yourself,

Speaker 80 is to turn downhill and walk, jog, run

Speaker 65 down that hill to safety.

Speaker 18 Well, I looked at some of those options, Mr.

Speaker 18 Kaczynski, and it's a hell of a lot harder up there on the hillside when somebody's threatening you than it is to stand here in a courtroom two and a half years later.

Speaker 8 So, if you were a juror, what would you think about Joe Campbell and the gunplay on the mountain?

Speaker 41 Was it murder or self-defense?

Speaker 8 Waiting for the jury.

Speaker 81 There's so much anxiousness.

Speaker 46 Hoping for justice.

Speaker 10 Who is this guy that can just steal such a beautiful soul from this world?

Speaker 27 On the 3rd of March, 2016, in the old Supreme Court chamber at Montana's State Capitol building, the question went to the jury.

Speaker 34 Did Joe Campbell have a right to shoot Tim Newman?

Speaker 33 Was it self-defense?

Speaker 34 Or was it cold-blooded murder?

Speaker 28 Neighbors Dan and Sue De La Rosa waited and willed their thoughts into the jury room.

Speaker 22 I believe he murdered him.

Speaker 72 Murder, absolutely.

Speaker 28 Though they knew full well that since Montana passed a new law legalizing certain kinds of self-defense, it was hard to know what a jury might decide.

Speaker 12 If they find a non-guilty, he moves up, there'll be four sales signs for everywhere up there.

Speaker 44 So, nervous hours around the old courtroom, which turned into a whole day,

Speaker 61 and then a second.

Speaker 25 There's so much just anxiousness, just waiting for the jury to come back.

Speaker 41 And then, just after noon, day two, the jury sent the judge a note.

Speaker 73 Please be seated.

Speaker 31 And everybody was summoned to the courtroom.

Speaker 73 I am told that you folks are hopelessly deadlocked and that even if given more time, you couldn't reasonably expect to reach a decision. Is that your understanding of events?

Speaker 73 I'm going to declare a mistrial.

Speaker 6 A mistrial.

Speaker 28 Three weeks of testimony.

Speaker 65 Oh, for nothing.

Speaker 73 And the state may or may not bring the case again. We're done here.
Thank you.

Speaker 10 I couldn't believe it. It was a complete shock, I think, for the whole family that he could just leave that courtroom and not have a guilty or a not guilty and just like nothing happened.

Speaker 10 Like nothing happened.

Speaker 57 What was the state to do?

Speaker 34 Well, in this case, said the prosecutors, the decision was obvious.

Speaker 42 They offered Joe Campbell a plea deal and they scheduled a retrial because it's a dangerous situation and I'm concerned it'll be repeated and somebody else will be killed.

Speaker 43 Joe Campbell remained out on bail with the proviso that he remain at least 10 miles away from his property up on the mountain.

Speaker 47 But

Speaker 53 less than three months later, May 2016, Joe Campbell elected not to face a second trial.

Speaker 4 Instead, he walked into a courtroom and waived his claim that the shooting was legal.

Speaker 50 How do you plead to the charge of negligent homicide?

Speaker 84 No contest, John.

Speaker 56 A plea of no contest, meaning Campbell neither admitted nor denied the charge that he committed negligent homicide.

Speaker 35 Mr.

Speaker 56 Campbell.

Speaker 63 A reduced charge from the original allegation of intentional homicide, Montana's parlance for first-degree murder.

Speaker 18 I believe it's in the best interest of myself and my family.

Speaker 27 In a case like this, said the prosecutors, you take what you can get.

Speaker 86 We're focusing on community protection, and we think it's probably the best agreement that we could reach and have a guaranteed resolution of this case.

Speaker 35 Before the judge pronounced Campbell's sentence, Tim Newman's wife Jackie went to the podium.

Speaker 94 Just because you are callous and have no remorse, I want you to be aware as Tim's wife,

Speaker 94 you have affected our lives in a horrendous way.

Speaker 43 Tim's daughter, Christy, also sent a statement, unable to be present because she just had a baby.

Speaker 61 A granddaughter, Tim, never got to see me.

Speaker 86 My dad died a hero.

Speaker 83 What will you die?

Speaker 10 It makes me very angry. Yeah, very upset, very sad.
Like, who is this guy that can just steal such a beautiful soul from this world?

Speaker 40 The judge offered Joe a chance to explain or apologize.

Speaker 50 Is there anything that you would like to say?

Speaker 15 Nobody wrote.

Speaker 43 Campbell also declined a chance to explain a dateline.

Speaker 31 His lawyer issued a statement which reads in part, the plea agreement allowed Mr.

Speaker 35 Campbell, his wife, and family to go forward with the certainty of freedom and the removal of constant stress and anxiety, while still allowing him to maintain his innocence and continue to maintain he acted necessarily in self-defense.

Speaker 50 For your plea of Nola Contendre to the sentence.

Speaker 31 It was, of course, part of Joe's deal with the state.

Speaker 13 20 years,

Speaker 61 but not in any prison.

Speaker 59 With all of it, a suspended sentence.

Speaker 50 And no fines or restitution is imposed.

Speaker 27 But as the neighbors listened, the judge told Joe he'd have to abide by some very important conditions.

Speaker 4 He'd never again be allowed to possess a firearm.

Speaker 32 And until 2036, if he lives that long, he's banned from the mountain altogether.

Speaker 31 From the forest, the trails, the home he so jealously guarded.

Speaker 34 He sold his cabin in 2022.

Speaker 68 Ironic, isn't it?

Speaker 20 You care so much about your property that you never get to see it again.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 46 Yeah.

Speaker 22 It's very ironic. You know, before he owned all the big property, he recreated just like all of us.

Speaker 22 And he walked down those trails across everyone else's property and hunted and enjoyed it, and life was good. But when he decided he needed to take control, that's when it all changed.

Speaker 20 It's like a fable, isn't it?

Speaker 39 Yes.

Speaker 8 Aesop could have written it.

Speaker 59 There you go.

Speaker 59 Huh.

Speaker 44 And if Tim Newman were on a cloud up there somewhere, said his daughter Christy, he'd be telling her,

Speaker 35 well, she knows exactly what he'd say.

Speaker 10 I'm sorry. Sorry, darling.

Speaker 10 Sorry for going up to that gate without someone with me.

Speaker 10 I'm sorry I'm not there to meet my granddaughter.

Speaker 10 I'm sorry we can't go on another hike together.

Speaker 10 Or I love you, you know.

Speaker 11 Praise the Lord for this country.

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