377: Dear Hank and John: Taylor's Version

Hello and welcome to Dear Hank and John.

Or as I prefer to call it, Dear John and Hank Taylor's version.

That's a podcast for two brothers.

Answer your questions, give you the abuse of advice, and bring you all the week's news from both Mars and AFC Wimbledon.

John, about this Taylor Swift person,

exactly how good is she at making clothes and how quick is she at it?

Oh, she's a swift tailor.

That was your joke.

That's where I went.

I like it.

You know what?

I've consumed a lot of Taylor Swift content over the years, and I've never heard that particular riff on her name.

And so in that way, it's impressive.

Thank you.

This is our first ever episode of Dear Hank and Sean devoted to a single person.

That single person is Taylor Swift.

Somebody...

asked us if we could stop answering questions and just make an episode about Taylor Swift.

And we agreed to do that.

I actually

searched the Deer Hank and John inbox and in it, just for Taylor Swift.

And at the top right, after I searched, it says one of 100 of many.

Wow.

There you go.

I mean,

there's no question about it.

Taylor Swift is having a year.

I

it's kind of cliche among people of my generation to be like, let's put the music aside and talk about what's really interesting.

And I think I really like Taylor Swift's music.

And

I don't think that the community building is the only interesting thing that she does in her work.

I think she does a lot of interesting stuff.

And I think she's a really, really talented songwriter.

But I am fascinated by the community building.

And so what I want to talk about is, and I do want to talk about my favorite Taylor Swift albums, the concerts I've been to.

What was my favorite one?

I don't think you've ever been to a Taylor Swift show, Hank, but they're incredible.

I haven't.

I keep meaning to, John.

Yeah, she doesn't come to Missoula that often.

I don't know why.

No, it's not.

It's definitely a trip for me.

Yeah.

She comes to Indianapolis most of her, most, most years or most tours, which I am grateful for.

So anyway,

I wanted to start off, though, by talking about Taylor Swift as community builder, because I think that is.

I feel like, John, we're jumping in it too fast.

I have some updates I need to hit you with.

Okay.

Several things.

One,

we're tossing it up here.

We're mixing it around.

We're mashing it together.

I got a lot of emails and I saw a lot of buzz about people not being excited to lose the dad jokes.

Yeah.

No, we should not lose the dad jokes.

Yeah, I'm about to do the Nerdfighteria survey and the census.

So I just did the census analysis.

By the time this is up, it will be uploaded.

It's not right now, but it will be.

And the census is just like a time where we ask questions of the community and learn things about you.

I'm going to ask questions about Dear Hank and John

to see what people love instead of just getting this anecdotal data.

But I think that I think if I'm finding joy in the dad jokes, I don't care what John feels.

I feel the same way.

No, it's not about me.

This podcast has never been about me.

That's why it's always been called Dear Hank and John.

That's right.

I'm going to be about you in a couple of years.

I'm the Ed McMahon of this podcast.

You know, like my basic job is to say like, yes.

It's not surprising to, this is going to be weird.

It's not surprising to me at all that we're not going to be on Mars in 2028.

Yeah.

It is surprising to me that it's going to be 2028.

Absolutely.

100% agree.

The fact that we're not going to be on Mars in 2028 was totally predictable.

The fact that 2028 is going to arrive is an astonishment.

Yeah, I mean, both

in terms of like, wow, the future keeps occurring and in terms of, wow, we're still making this podcast.

I've been thinking, like, when am I, like, what year am I likely to make it to?

Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2028.

I've been thinking about that more lately.

I'm sure you have.

2028.

Welcome to my world.

I mean, I've been trying to tell you, Hank, that mortality is a huge omnipresent problem.

And you've been like, anyway.

But suddenly, suddenly you're listening.

I don't know what changed.

Yeah.

I think I'd be happy.

I want a long life.

I'm not going to make any bones about it.

Yeah.

It doesn't mean that I'm going to get one, but I just want you to know if I don't have a long life, know that I'm disappointed.

That sucked.

I wasn't happy about that.

Yeah.

But anyway, let's talk about Taylor Swift, or are we still not ready?

There was also people talking about our considerations of the fake sponsors and how much they like them, which is nice to hear that you like the the fake sponsors.

We'll think about it.

We'll feel it out.

And also, maybe we'll add new segments that you'll like even more.

Yeah.

Like maybe it'll just be this week in Taylor.

Maybe it will.

The whole podcast, every episode, we will turn into a Taylor Swift podcast.

I'd rather turn into a podcast that analyzes the life of a much smaller celebrity, you know?

Oh, wow.

Just pays a whole lot of attention.

Actually, I...

I don't think that what the world needs now is more celebrity news, now that I've thought about it.

But here's an episode about Taylor swift so listen

yeah taylor swift is a brilliant community builder and hank and i have been trying to build communities like that's basically what our job has been this entire time yeah

if you ask us like what we do at at our core that's what we want to do when we grow up i think and what we've been trying to do for the last 20 years and taylor swift is such a genius at it and

unlike certain other people who were also geniuses at it, like hasn't alienated or abandoned a huge portion of of that fandom, which is incredibly difficult.

But on a personal level, I just have to say, like, this is probably the first fandom that Alice has really, really been a part of.

You know, Alice is 10 and she's a huge Swifty.

And it is such a welcoming,

lovely group of people to 10-year-olds.

Like,

if nothing against the Mountain Goats fandom, which I am a part of, but like if 10-year-olds started showing up and like offering their own critical analysis of Mountain Goats songs, I think most Mountain Goats fans would be like, mm-hmm, yeah, right, okay, sure.

But

it's so, people are so nice to her.

Like, I didn't get to go to the ARIS tour when Sarah and Alice went, but Sarah told me that like Sarah kept tearing up because people were being so kind to each other and

trying to give each other such a wonderful experience.

And like, that's ultimately what it's about.

Like

it's not that special to sit in a movie theater and listen to a three-hour concert.

It's not that special on its own to like go somewhere and be one of 90,000 people at a concert.

But somehow she's created something

that is both

for and about the other people as much as it's for and about her.

And

I

I just think that's extraordinary.

And it must be conscious, right?

Because she doesn't need money.

So

this is my big Taylor Swift question.

Okay.

Like clearly,

and it's because it's a personal question.

Clearly, you've accomplished a great deal.

Like she has,

she had an album re-release that was the largest album of the year.

It's not even an it's it's an existing album.

Well, it had a few new songs, which were very good.

So

I would argue that it was not entirely,

it was very good.

And it was new versions.

But yeah, I hear what you mean.

I hear what you mean.

There were a lot of songs that had been previously released on that on the bus.

And there's also like, there's a story around that.

You know, it's not just, it's obviously not just re-release.

It's also like about artistic freedom and,

you know, how messed up the music industry is and giving people power over their work.

but like the i'm on i'm on the taylor swift merch store right now and i can't i'm just like i'm having a really hard time trying to figure out exactly how these snowflakes have been coded because they are behaving pretty strangely um but that's not important

yeah we really need to up our merch game at good dot store when i go to taylor's merch page i'm always like oh wow well that's a i actually that's a whole different way i don't like it i like it oh i can shop the tree yes hank There's little secrets on the side.

And that's part of what I love about Taylor's whole approach is that there are secrets, there are Easter eggs.

You've got to solve puzzles together.

Like, you know, to unlock the track list, people had to solve riddles and puzzles by the million together in collaboration.

And I just find that kind of stuff so beautiful and cool and fascinating and like wonderful ways of building connections among people.

And that's awesome.

But I think your question is, is

this is a person who's had plenty of success why is she still still still still like selling teachers what's what keeps you hungry what keeps you hungry for for whatever it is is it like the the records is it uh

is it just the the the knowledge of what you can do with the what you what you will gain i'm gonna throw it back on you because i think in a lot of people's imagination you know like obviously taylor swift is on a different level from hank green i'm gonna just gonna say it i don't want to hurt your feelings but

that's a reality, right?

Like,

if you started dating Travis Kelsey,

it would be a news story for sure, but for a different reason.

It wouldn't be it.

In a lot of ways, I think it probably would be bigger news.

I'll tell you what, it would be great for us.

I'm not here to tell you to abandon your family and seek a relationship with an NFL star.

I think that's a little contrary to the brand, honestly.

I don't know.

I think it'd be great for us.

At least like we would sell a ton of those socks that you've made.

People would, we'd be in the zeitgeist.

We would be in the zeitgeist and we'd be just really making socks.

Exactly.

That's not, that's not your goal.

And also,

you know, you're married.

So there's that.

That's the big, yeah.

I really like your spouse.

I wouldn't want you to switch spouses.

I feel very good about the current situation.

Yeah.

But my point is that you're on a different level from Taylor Swift.

But I think in a lot of people's imagination, you're not on that different of a level.

Yeah.

Because you're both in a situation where you don't need to work and yet you work incredibly hard.

And so maybe

the reason you want to ask Taylor that question is because you want to have an answer for yourself.

Oh, yeah.

That is 100% the case.

I was doing, as I was reading through the people's responses to the census analysis, it was like, is there anything that you'd like us to know or that you're concerned about?

And a lot of people were like, I think Hank is working too hard and I'm worried about his health.

Yeah.

And this was in like last December.

So it was before the cancer.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I'm like, oh, you guys, this very, feels very like maybe I should have been paying more attention to how things were going.

Not that I think that my cancer was caused by stress.

I do not.

But

it's not just that I got sick.

It is also that

having stepped back a little bit, I'm seeing things.

in a different way.

Yeah, your work

is my best.

I'm seeing my, my, yeah, I'm seeing like my,

not vitality, but vitalness, like my importance less than I did,

which is good.

I think that that's helpful.

That is good.

I think that it like, it really all sits on Taylor Swift's shoulders, which must be a weird feeling, but I guess she's been feeling it for a long time.

Yeah, and that's probably part of it, right?

Is that it's not just about Taylor.

Our cousin described this as the Jerry Garcia phenomenon.

Now, I think Taylor genuinely loves, and I don't know why I keep calling her Taylor, as if I'm acquainted with her

with her.

Ms.

Swift genuinely loves performing and making music and writing songs.

And I think there has to be an element of, you know that,

is it Tom Waits who has that thing about going out into the meadow?

That like when

you have a really good session making music with your friends, it's like you went out into the meadow as a way of being with, like you're with people.

It's It's nighttime, you're out in the meadow, you're looking up at the stars, you're having that amazing conversation you sometimes have a few times in your life with people you love a lot.

Only you get to have that experience regularly if you're a musician and you have those moments of magic.

And I'm sure those moments of magic have to play a huge role.

But also, there's so many people,

you know, like we feel a responsibility to the 130 people or whatever who work with us.

I mean, imagine the size of having so much of people's livelihoods contingent upon

your work.

And your decisions.

You know, it's not just like the things you've created, it's what you decide to do next.

Right.

Like there are a whole company, like who makes these Christmas tree ornaments and who is shipping them?

Yeah.

And

there's just a lot of, there's a lot of people who are dependent on this idea

happening and continuing and i'm decorating my taylor swift christmas tree right now and then i can export it and share it but also i can add all these things to my cart and and buy them i i know a lot of taylor swift christmas tree ornaments by the way this is a lot i feel like i'm in at disney world i'm really glad hank that you're beginning to glimpse how far behind the taylor swift store our store is

very

very far behind i don't i don't honestly, I feel like this is, and I, I don't mean it in a bad way, but it is a little bit e-commerce from five years to 10 years ago.

I love it.

I don't know.

And vibe.

But I think that like the America is much, a much different place than the America that I inhabit.

And Taylor Swift inhabits the whole America.

That's true.

Yeah, which is part of why I'm so fascinated by her ability to like keep that fan community together and strong and productive is because when Nerdfighteria got even a little close to the center of American pop culture, it immediately lost a ton of its activation energy.

Right.

Yeah, well, I don't think that we were going in that direction.

Maybe that's

pulling it that way.

That's true.

We weren't pulling it in that way, but there was also a real just like, it's a lot harder to

keep people together and motivated and productive and feeling like they're part of something when it's much bigger.

Like that's just a reality.

Yeah.

Hank's not listening to me because he's, I hear him clicking and he's like, oh, this isn't a great shop.

I don't know if I love this shop.

Meanwhile, he like can't pay attention.

He's obsessed with the shop.

He's about to buy 600 Taylor Swift ornaments.

And he's like, oh, no, I mean, this looks like five years ago.

Well, it doesn't, it ain't making bank like five years ago.

It's making bank like 2028.

I was actually looking at this question from Emma who asked, dear Hank and John, I desperately love Taylor Swift and everything about her and her music, but my boyfriend does not prefer her, no matter how much I try to show him my favorite songs or clips of her being an awesome human.

I understand that everyone has to love her music, but how do I get my boyfriend on board?

So celebrating.

uh everything taylor is more fun emma that's so hard because when you're uh like anytime you really love something and you share it with someone you love, it's such a naked, vulnerable moment.

Yeah.

And there's where you're like looking over at them on the couch and you're like, eh?

I once had a friend do an album listening party of his own album and I was like, I

should not have agreed to do that.

That's intense.

It's intense.

But I think that I think

I actually think that your boyfriend needs to learn to love Taylor Swift.

So this is something I feel pretty strongly about in relationships.

You don't have to be able to

love what the other person loves, but you have to be able to love them loving it.

So I'm never going to be great at pottery.

That's something I've learned about myself.

Whereas Sarah is an excellent, like, you know, pretty much an expert potter.

And I don't need to love making pottery, but I need to love Sarah making pottery.

And to do that, I need to appreciate enough about making pottery to be like, wow, that is a very good mug.

And I know it's a very good mug because I've made a bad one.

Yeah,

I know what this is like.

That's totally true.

And I

sometimes I will read a book that Catherine is reading, even though I wouldn't read that book, you know?

Yeah.

And I will like the book.

Yeah.

But I will also like that Catherine and I have both read the same book and can talk about it.

Right.

Well, that, and that, so I understand, like, it inherently makes somebody uncomfortable when you're like, hey, watch this TikTok of Taylor Swift to understand why she's great.

I do this all the time with Sarah, where I'll be like, watch this Liverpool goal to understand why it's beautiful.

Well, I'm bringing all kinds of context to that Liverpool goal, thousands of hours of watching soccer context, a childhood of playing soccer context.

And Sarah is bringing a different context to that clip, and she's not going to be able to enjoy it as much.

And it's just asking a lot for me to ask her to love this Liverpool goal like I love it.

But I do think that he should find a way into what you love enough to appreciate your love for it.

And maybe that's actually putting less pressure on him or just saying that to him, just saying, like, God, I really, I don't need you to love this, but I need you to understand why I love it and appreciate that I love it.

Right.

Yeah.

But that's also like, I don't know.

It's it is a, I think that that's like a,

I'd want to give that advice to the boyfriend.

Yeah.

I don't know if I can give that advice to you because like, I don't know how to make that happen for you.

Like you could have him listen to this podcast.

Make him listen to this podcast.

Yeah.

Cause I like you can't change a person and be like, hey, these guys on this podcast said that you should pay more attention to my hobby.

Maybe start paying more attention to his hobbies.

Maybe be like, hey, you know what?

I'd like to get a fantasy football membership.

Maybe that's what the Travis Kelsey thing is all about.

It is.

So everybody can pay attention to each other's hobbies a little better.

She's.

I wouldn't put that past her.

She's reknitting America, John.

Yeah, I wouldn't put it past her to be like, the fabric is coming apart.

Unfortunately, it is partly my responsibility to help knit this back together.

By loving this dopey-dopey man.

Well, did you listen to...

Well, first off, don't say anything bad about Travis Kelsey.

Hard stuff.

It's not.

It's not bad.

It's not bad.

He's, he's, I've, I've, he seems kind of dopey.

He's in a good, cute way.

I think he is incredibly, incredibly charming.

I've become a fan of his podcast.

Anyway, um,

I, I, I,

it's Alice.

In that American guy way.

Alice and I are both.

huge Travis Kelsey fans now.

And she'll watch the NFL with me, but she only watches Travis Kelsey.

And then she'll also watch the Colts because we have a friend who's on the Colts and he plays the same position as Travis Kelsey.

And so she'll be like, look, there's Kylan in the Travis Kelsey position.

And I'm like, ooh, I don't think Kylan would love that.

Okay.

I have a question, Sean.

Okay.

And I don't know if it's okay to ask.

Okay.

But is it the weirder outcome that Travis Kelsey, or is it the better or with a preferred outcome that Travis Kelsey and Taylor Swift live happily ever after?

Or that they break up?

Like, obviously, like, it just seems like first off, that is an inappropriate question.

These are real people's real lives, and it's easy to lose track of that.

And I understand that.

I understand, like, that's literally how celebrity works is that, like, you stop thinking of the person as a person.

Like, that's the definition of becoming a celebrity, is that people no longer think of you as a person.

If these two stay together or if they break up, well, yeah, that's probably not a great question.

I think what's best is what's best for them.

That's right.

What's best for everyone is what's best for them.

Yeah.

That said.

Okay.

I mean,

I just, I want what's, I want what's best for, for everyone, and which is what's best for them.

I'm not going to offer, I'm not going to offer my personal feelings on this topic.

I'm just going to say I'm a huge fan of them both.

But if they break up, I'm obviously Team Taylor.

Like, it's not, it's not going to be that hard for me to walk away from Travis Kelsey.

So he should know that.

He should know that I'm Team Taylor because I know that's a concern for Travis.

I know that he thinks about me.

Yeah, no,

I think that Travis Kelsey is fairly aware of his role in the Swift fandom.

God, I loved all those TikToks where people would say to their sports-loving partners, wow, this is really going to put Travis Kelsey on the map.

And their sports leading partners would be like, oh, you mean first ballot Hall of Famer Super Bowl winner, Travis Kelsey?

Travis Kelsey, maybe the best to ever play the position.

And people would be like, Yeah, you know, yeah, sure, whatever, all that.

But like,

he's famous.

He's famous now.

I mean, look, I did, I had never heard of him.

Sure.

No, I mean, I'd heard of him, but I didn't spend much time thinking about him.

And like, I'm, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a person who's watched football a bunch, not this year or the last year, but

I've done it.

A bunch, a bunch.

I've watched

more football games than the average person on earth.

Yes, but fewer than the average American of your age.

Definitely.

Yes.

Absolutely.

So let me ask you, Hank.

So I've been to two Taylor Swift concerts.

I went to the 1989 tour.

I went to the Reputation Tour.

I hope to be able to go to the Ares tour when it comes to Indianapolis, but I didn't get tickets in

the normal queue, so I've got to try to figure out a solution for that.

Weasel your way in, do some John Green and I might have to,

I might have to.

I don't want to, but I also am not above it.

It's right anyway.

Um, those two concerts were both incredible, but at the 1989 tour,

she actually mentioned me and the fault in our stars

and like on stage like on stage, yeah,

yeah.

And um,

was she like, John Green is here.

She was.

She was like, she was like, someone who wrote one of my favorite love stories is here tonight.

Oh, yeah.

She's from Indianapolis.

It's John Green.

It's nice to have those little things that you can like,

if you get hit by a bus, you can be like, oh, remember when Taylor Swift said that?

And then die.

That's not a bad memory to go out on, I got to tell you.

I suspect I have a bad memory.

I'm ready to go.

A memory of some mortification, you know?

But it'd be great to go out on a memory of joy.

Anyway, the punchline of that story is like Chris and I, my best friend Chris and I, were watching this happen, and we were both just jaw on the floor,

utterly astonished.

Yes.

And then Sarah and Marina, about five seconds later, emerge next to us with like beers and popcorns.

And they're like, hey, what's going on?

And we were like,

you're not going to believe this.

I can't wait to go to a Taylor Swift concert so that she can be like, a guy who made some of my favorite TikToks is here.

He did the don't eat grass thing.

Science TikTok legend Hank Green's in the house.

Wow.

I mean, this is a special evening.

No, I mean, I think she did reference that TikTok in her commencement speech that she gave.

What?

She gave a commencement speech and she said in it, why can't we eat grass?

Just like that.

And I'm convinced that it is because of

me and Sidney

making

sick talks about grass.

Maybe, but

it's not, it's not, I'll just say it, it's not as good as mine.

No, John, it's not as good as yours.

But when I go

to the next state of the world, speaking of which, you have a better meeting president story because you've met, have you met both of the most recent presidents?

No, you haven't met Donald Trump.

No, have you met two out of his three most recent presidents?

No, I don't, I don't, I have never met Joe Biden.

Oh, okay.

I have.

Yeah, so I've, I, but you, did you meet Barack Obama in real life?

No, I've never met Barack Obama.

Did you touch the man?

I met Barack Obama in real life when he was a state senator, and we were both recording pieces for WBEZ.

And he was actually doing an interview on the show that I did commentary for.

And my buddy, who's my producer, and I were listening to him, but we like stopped recording to listen to him.

And

Justin was like, state senator, that guy should be president.

So that was pretty cool.

Yeah.

Anyway, I was thinking about it.

That's how I feel when I watch old Strongbad emails.

I'm just like, how is this guy not bigger?

It's incredible.

I don't get it.

It's incredible.

We're supposed to be talking about Taylor Swift, though.

Could Taylor Swift be president?

Go.

Could or should.

Or would.

I don't think she would run.

Because I don't.

It's like Dolly Parton.

Okay.

Like there was that great podcast that

the Radiolab folks made where they talked about how we live in Dolly Parton's America.

and

Dolly Parton is one of the few great unifying things about America.

If Dolly Parton ran for president, it would be a catastrophe.

Yeah, for America and for Dolly Parton.

Right, totally.

Because what she does, the gift she gives us, is reaching across every possible divide, reaching across all the divisions, and doing so by supporting things that

we're universally in favor of, but don't pay enough attention to, like childhood literacy, right?

Like childhood literacy doesn't get people fired up.

It's not like people are making TikToks about how much they love and or hate child literacy because it's just not that kind of topic.

But somebody like Dolly Parton can come in and say, well, but it is really important and I'm going to ask you to pay attention to it.

Yeah.

Which will be a very interesting thing to see over the next, you know, decades of Taylor Swift's career.

Like what is the,

where do the focuses start to focus?

I, I, I think that Taylor Swift could make a pretty good good store.

Yes.

She could go Paul Newman and that would be pretty amazing.

I think Taylor Swift could make a great good store.

But yeah, yeah.

Why would Taylor Swift sign up to have half of America hate her when obviously her goal is to have all of America love her?

But there's also the part where like the job isn't that good, and I'm not sure the job.

Oh.

That's a great point.

Yes.

I also don't think that she would be a particularly good president.

Not that I don't think that she's an extraordinarily capable person.

It's just that I have to build up a bunch of new relationships and skills.

Yeah, probably.

I mean,

I don't think anybody's ready for that job.

I think it's like having a kid, you know, like you're never ready.

And so I don't really buy the argument that somebody who's been in the Senate for 40 years is ready because Taylor Swift's been the boss of way more people than a senator has.

On the other hand,

there's all the political, diplomatic parts of being president,

the complicated dynamics of how power flows through a constitutional republic that is,

I think it's safe to say, strangled by money.

And like all of that stuff is harder to navigate if you don't have experience doing it, which like somebody who's been in Congress for 40 years does.

So there's different kinds of experience that can lend itself to that job.

But the main thing is that it would be,

I mean, almost a step down.

yeah no I did I did have that feeling as I was watching the helicopter land on the White House lawn and then Barack Obama walk out of it I was like that looks like a bad job oh god it was like there were three helicopters too because there was like two decoys just in case

so stressful yeah I was you're always stressed about sure

oh God and not just that it's just you know you have to make horrible decisions you have to make decisions that alienate people.

You, it just, it just seems like a terrible, like you have to call people on the worst day of their lives.

It just seems like a hard job.

Yeah.

So, okay.

The other time I went to a Taylor Swift concert was the reputation tour.

I had an awesome time, almost arguably too good of a time.

Was it okay when she didn't mention you?

How did, did you feel?

Yeah, I wasn't like heartbroken.

Once was plenty, man.

Um,

But actually, that time I did get to see her, and she asked me a bunch about you.

She was like, I know your brother has a book coming out.

Oh, God, I really want it to be about TikToks.

No, it was before TikTok because it was reputation.

So, but, but yeah, she and I did, did talk a bunch about you.

So, how does she know this stuff?

I don't know, man.

She has like a person who like whispers in her ear and is like, this is.

She's on a different, she's on a different level from us, Hank.

She probably has a different memory level.

Like, it's like the the one time I met Melinda Gates.

Melinda Gates walked up to me and she was like, it's so nice to meet you.

I said, thank you.

And she looked at Sarah and she said, and you must be Sarah.

Wow.

And I was like,

I feel like they get briefings.

Okay, but I get briefings, man.

I get briefings before

I get briefings.

Before like a big staff meeting and you're like looking through the Facebook and you're like, I yikes.

Or before a partners in health trustees meeting.

Oh, my God.

Like if I'm going to meet like with partners and health donors and try to convince them to increase their support for tuberculosis or whatever, you don't think they give me briefings and then I immediately, it goes through one eye and out the other?

Is that how sight works?

Yeah, because you have the one laser eye.

It's a projector.

I mean, why?

Why not sucks in the image and the one that shoots it out, right?

I mean, I think that's how it works.

It also is not how it works with ears.

That's actually, that's true.

In one ear and out the other is equally idiotic.

You got one ear that's just a speaker,

you got an ear and you got a trumpet, you never know which one's which.

Yeah, the point is that

I

have no ability to do that kind of thing, and when people do do it, like Chelsea Clinton is another person I've met who does that, and you're just like, wow, like I guess you were trained from birth to do it, but it's still incredibly impressive yeah

so she so anyway she mentioned my books what else did she say

available now still

still very popular uh what else I don't I don't remember we just had a conversation and anyway like I do think that like some of that like sometimes when you like

I think that I think to some extent that stuff should stay private.

But anyway,

I love both those albums.

1989 for me is the album of the Paper Towns movie because we were all singing it all the time, the entire time we were making the Paper Towns movie.

And actually, there's a scene in the movie where there were two versions.

One, they sang the Pokemon song, and the other, they sang a Taylor Swift song from 1989.

And Taylor generously agreed to allow us to do that, although they ended up going with the Pokemon song.

I thought the other version was great.

But

that, like, it's just like, still, I listen to that album and it just takes me right back to that place.

But now, and this is something I love about music.

I listen to it and it takes me back to both that place and to Alice now, like to Alice's just utter enthusiasm.

Like, she and her best friend are

they do not think about anything or talk about anything other than Taylor Swift.

It's like Nerdfighters in 2008.

Like, she is hardcore.

It's great.

I love it.

I'm so proud of her.

Like, it just makes me so happy that she's found this awesome fandom.

It's great.

That is, so 1989.

So that's what that makes me think of.

Paper towns.

Yeah.

It's when it's that's when it really like hit me as like super stardom and like every song that I heard come off of that album was a massive hit and very good.

I remember once at like 9.30 at night being at my local grocery store, which is like half the size of a normal grocery store, but still a very good grocery store.

And

like Shake It Off was on the radio and everyone I walked past was visibly dancing.

Like not like nodding their heads or like singing along, but I was like, am I in a music video right now?

Well, it does, it does make you want to get down to these sick beats.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that, I think a lot of, like, it's also the place, it's like the place that had, it's got a normal amount of beer.

Like it's got like a regular grocery store amount of beer and like half of everything else.

So it's kind of the beer grocery store.

And I think that it was sort of had a couple of drinks.

Yeah.

People were stocking back up a lot at 9.30 at night on a Friday.

And

yeah, but I also

we performed that song on tour.

Yeah.

And I love performing it.

People go freaking crazy.

They know every word.

I know every word because I sang it a bunch of time on stage.

And it's just so,

it's so fun.

But obviously that, like, that album, it just, and like

they're all quite different from each other.

You know, they're all very tailored.

It's why the era is work, right?

Is that Reputation is very different from 1989 is very different from Red, is very different from folklore, is very different from Midnights.

Yeah.

I

love Reputation.

I think it's an amazing album.

That show was incredible.

It was like an astonishment.

It was like performance art.

I don't know how else to describe it.

It was just, there were so many snakes.

There were so many like little novels.

Live snakes?

Little snakes.

No, no, way better.

My favorite kind of snakes, fake ones.

And it was just, the whole performance was just incredible.

But so many of the songs on Reputation are songs that I like sing to like get me fired up, like when we were taking on those pharmaceutical companies.

This is embarrassing, but like that stuff is really hard for me.

I don't, I'm not a natural like like advocate or activist.

Like, I, you know, like, I don't like it when people don't like me.

And I think it's safe to say that the executives at some of those pharmaceutical companies don't like me.

And I, it really, it, it, it is, for whatever reason, I don't have to get into it too deeply, but it's very hard for me.

And

I would play that one song that goes,

She don't start,

but she can tell you how it ends.

To like,

be like,

all right, I didn't start this.

Yeah.

But I think we can tell them how it ends.

There are graveyards full of my enemies.

Can you believe that Elon Musk unironically tweeted, there are graveyards full of my enemies?

I mean, there are graveyards full of my enemies, but like, I don't talk about it.

It's embarrassing.

You should be embarrassed of the graveyards full of your enemies.

Yeah, yeah.

You should be mortified.

I look at the graveyards full of my enemies and I'm kind of sad.

Like, yeah,

me too.

I didn't put them there.

They did it to themselves, man.

Exactly.

You think I have the power to put my enemies into graveyards?

No.

And then I felt a little bit of glee when it first happened, and I feel guilty about that glee because that was the one I didn't feel.

You're right.

I did feel.

I have a few people from the days of YouTube who I always knew were bad.

And then

you got a little jolt of Schadenfreude.

It turned out to be even worse than I thought.

And yeah, when at first I was like, ha, ha, ha,

and now I'm just sad.

You know?

That's the thing.

The jolts of one thing I've noticed about my life, Hank, as I've gotten older is that the jolts of Schadenfreude I feel, I used to feel very purely, and they used to really motivate me.

Like I was so motivated by resentment.

But now, like, whenever I get that feeling of Schadenfreude, I'm always like, now, now because I've seen the other side of it, I've seen that you eventually journey to that like feeling of like, oh, I should, you know, this isn't,

I shouldn't celebrate misery and pain.

I always just, now I like, I feel preemptively guilty.

So, like, I have the Schadenfreude, and then, like, within 30 seconds, it's all gone.

But

we shouldn't knock Graveyards Full of My Enemies too much because this podcast is brought to you by the new Metallica album, Graveyards Full of My Enemies.

I mean, it's not impossible that Taylor could make a song called Graveyards Full of My Enemies.

I don't think it'd be a full album, but

I feel like she could pull that off in a way that Elon Musk can't.

And that's an important thing for both Taylor and Elon to understand.

Yeah.

But today's podcast, of course, is also brought to you by Taylor Allison Swift.

Taylor Allison Swift.

Anytime that I say Taylor Swift in our home, my daughter corrects me and says Taylor Allison Swift because her name needs that level of respect.

This podcast is also brought to you by whatever's best for them.

Whatever is best for them is best for us.

And today's podcast is brought to you by the Good Store, our actual sponsor.

They didn't pay us for this slot, and indeed they don't pay us for anything.

Good.store, where 100% of the profits go to charity.

You can get amazing holiday gifts like soap and coffee and socks, like the socks that Hank designed when he was in chemo.

And look, I'll be honest with you, is it as good as Taylor's merch store?

No.

I think the products might not be substantially, they might be better.

Oh, yeah, we've got great products.

Yeah.

No, the design products.

We don't have like a whole house you can shop through and a bunch of Easter eggs.

Maybe I'll throw an Easter egg or two on the site.

I'll try.

I'll try for you.

Why don't we give Dear Hank and John listeners a special discount, Hank?

Okay, I will do it right now.

It's going to be called, you use the discount podcast ad.

Podcast ad, classic, a classic of the genre.

That way we'll know where you came from.

What do you want to do?

Do you want to do something else?

Podcast ad.

P-O-D-C-A-S-T-A-D, podcast ad.

That's not, it's not fun at all.

I really, I really like whiffed on making that one fun.

No, I think that's so fun.

That's such a good.

are you kidding?

I'm blown away by your creativity.

And you get, and if you put in the, if you put in offer code podcast ad,

when you're checking out, you will receive

10% off of your entire order.

Whoa, it's generous.

It's generous considering

money that would otherwise go to partners in health.

Only for the first 200 people.

Okay.

Oh, that's a proper podcast ad.

That's right.

You get that illusion of scarcity.

Good.store.

I could actually set it so that it's only 200 people.

It's not an illusion of scarcity.

There's real scarcity.

It's manufactured scarcity.

Not different.

Illusory scarcity.

Very, very important distinction.

Good.store.

It doesn't sound like a URL, but it is.

Beautiful.

That should be the real tagline, John.

This episode of Dear Hank of John is brought to you by Factor.

There's so much going on.

And if there is a strategy available to you so that maybe you can outsource a little bit of the labor to somebody else, that's something I might want to take a look into.

Well, Factor helps me eat smarter with tasty, chef-prepared meals that are dietician-approved and delivered right to my door.

And now, with more than 65 weekly meals made for how I live and what I like to eat, I've got more ways to get a real meal, regardless of what has been tossed into my inbox.

The variety is a big deal for me because there are a lot of different ways that a lot of different people like to try and eat healthy.

I've got my own version of that.

Also, I'm allergic to shrimp, but they do have premium seafood choices like salmon, which I can eat, and shrimp, which maybe you can at no extra cost.

This is the only body I've got, and I like to try to be kind to it by not having no food in the house and running to the grocery store to get a chicken tender and honey mustard sauce and having that be my lunch.

You can also savor some new flavors for the first time.

Factor's got some Asian-inspired meals.

There's some Chinese dishes, there's some Thai flavors, more choices, and better nutrition.

According to Factor, 97% of customers say Factor helped them live a healthier life.

That's a big deal.

Sour cream and chived chicken, smoky barbecue chicken breasts with mashed potatoes, cream corn, and chive butter green beans, cheesy bacon pork tenderloin with mashed potatoes?

Eat smart at factormeals.com slash dearhank50off and use the code dearhank50Off to get 50% off plus free shipping on your first box.

That's code dearhank50off at factormeals.com for 50% off plus free shipping.

Get delicious, ready-to-eat meals delivered with Factor.

This next question comes from Sid, who asks, Dear Dear Hanka John, please, please, please re-release the Eras to her Pizza John shirt.

I'm a lover of Taylor Swift and a nerdfighter, and this crossover is one I did not know I needed.

I am a student and was too busy to be involved in Pizzamas.

I missed the incredible opportunity.

Please,

not a base, a CID.

Aha!

I had to say it to get it.

Oh, oh, oh, a CID, ACID.

Acid.

Yes.

Yeah.

No.

P.S., you could always just send me one size small.

Maybe.

But we're not re-releasing the shirt.

No, we can't re-release the shirt.

But

if there's a size small still in the warehouse after we ship everything out, Sid,

maybe I'll get you in touch with Abby or Josh and they can see what they can do.

Are you going to do that right now?

Because if you don't do it right now, you're never going to do it.

I'll just tell you that right now.

It's a good point, John.

It's a good point.

To all the people who are listening to this and you're thinking, wow, I should really ask Hank and John for a free shirt next time I send them an email.

Don't do that.

Don't do that.

Do it.

But if it's just asking for a shirt, it's not going to happen.

It's also not going to happen.

Also,

if it's silly, that is going to make your life better.

I think we've got a pretty good chance of being able to get one small shirt to Sid.

Yes.

I'm not totally confident, but I think we've got a chance just based on our order numbers versus our order numbers, if that makes sense.

Yes, it does.

Okay.

All right.

Just a couple, just a couple of high-level good store executives doing the work right here.

Hank Green and John Green.

Do you think Taylor

sets the discount codes?

Podcast ad.

I'll tell you what.

If she does, she has something better than podcast ad.

Yeah, it could have been like Taylor Swift is the greatest.

Slifty could have been eyeball projector.

Could have been anything.

Yeah, no, I like podcast out a lot.

That way, we'll know that it's from the podcast.

It will help.

As opposed to if we'd invented a different one that was podcast specific, in which case we never could have parsed it.

I also have to email and say that we're setting up this podcast because I do this all the time where I'm like, I set up a code and they're like, where'd this code come from?

We get in trouble.

Yeah.

We get in trouble.

I just actually, it's funny you should say that because I just got in trouble for making a TikTok without telling anybody.

Oh, good for you, John.

All right.

So, Hank, unfortunately, we've reached reached the end of our delicious hour discussing the work of Taylor Allison Swift.

Full respect on the name.

This has been a delight.

I'd love to do it again, but I don't want to do it for another person.

I only want to do it for Taylor Swift.

Yeah, I completely agree.

But I do like the idea of doing specials sometimes.

And especially because we have so many questions in the inbox.

We can just search for anything and find a question.

I thought we could do a Napoleon special, you know?

Yeah, I could try.

Let's see.

Let's see if we have any Napoleon.

Joaquin Phoenix.

See if he's interested in

talking to us about the life of Napoleon.

Yes.

This says, I'm genuinely concerned with your knowledge and opinions on pop culture.

You have so many hot takes.

They are entertaining, though, so keep them coming.

I'd love to hear your opinions on Napoleon Dynamite since I'm from Idaho.

That's not the Napoleon I meant.

Yeah, but it's still, it's a good quality cold take, you know?

Right.

That's freezing.

That's freezing cold.

I loved Napoleon Dynamite.

Sadie?

I have a controversial take on Napoleon Dynamite, which is that I think it's good, but not as good as that Will Farrell ice skating movie.

You know, I've never seen that, but I've heard it's great.

It's so good.

It's so good.

It's delicious.

All right, Hank, thank you for podding with me.

Thanks to everybody for your questions, Taylor Swift and otherwise.

You can email us at Hank News.

Do we not have Mars and news?

Oh, you want to do Mars News?

I don't know.

Do you have news?

Yeah, I always go.

Hank, they play every week.

Okay, hit me with some news.

So big news from AFC Wimbledon is that we were supposed to play the franchise currently plying its trade in Milton Keynes over the weekend, but they pulled out because they were like, oh, no, we can't do it.

We have so many players reporting for international duty in Antigua and Barbados, and it's just not possible, even though they're players who don't start for us.

And we were like, that's fine.

Ali Alhamedi has to go play for Iraq, and he's overwhelmingly our best player.

So you thought you were like pulling a fast one on us, but actually we're hugely relieved.

So no game against Milton Keynes.

It got moved.

Instead,

I got to watch Ali Alhamedi play for the Iraqi national team.

And one intrepid AFC Wimbledon fan flew to Vietnam in order to support Ali Alhamedi in Iraq's game against Vietnam.

And that's the kind of thing that we need to do more of if we want to hold on to this guy in the January transfer window.

We need to make him feel so loved.

He is the best.

Some people say he is the Taylor Swift of kicking balls into nets.

He's a genius, an unparalleled, great 21-year-old.

And we just want to keep you till you're 22, okay?

Then you can go,

then you can go live your dream, play in the Premier League, take Iraq to the World Cup, do all the amazing things you're going to do.

Just stay till May.

Well, in Mars News,

Duboke says, I wanted to find something Taylor Swift related, but everything was about astrology charts.

So instead, we have a story about the one thing Taylor Swift doesn't do, rest.

This week in Mars News,

we will.

This week in Mars News,

we have entered and left the Mars-solar conjunction, the phase that happens every two years where the sun is between us and Mars.

And during the Mars-solar conjunction, we cannot communicate with spacecrafts on Mars because there's a sun in the way, which is a really big thing that produces a lot of radiation.

So to protect the missions, things go on a kind of a little hiatus.

No one sends any instructions to the spacecrafts, but the spacecrafts can still do a little bit of work on their own because they're smart and they can do stuff.

They'll just have to wait until the conjunction ends to send their data back.

NASA stopped sending signals on November 11th and it began again on November 25th.

Oh, so it's just like a nice little Thanksgiving break.

Yeah.

Weirdly enough, it's during Thanksgiving, which of course it is not always.

Hopefully they had some great, they all gave thanks on Mars.

And I don't think that they can eat food, but hopefully the solar

power that they consumed was sort of gravy tinged.

I just want to say this Thanksgiving, I'm very grateful for you, Hank, and grateful that we get to make this podcast again.

And I know we're not going to be together in real life for Thanksgiving.

So I just wanted to say that I

am very, very grateful this particular Thanksgiving.

I'm grateful for you as well and all of your support

because it was a lot and it was very helpful and it felt very good to be loved and supported.

And always, that always feels good.

And let's all be grateful to Taylor Allison Swift.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

I think this podcast is edited by Joseph Tunamedish.

It's produced by Rosiana Halls-Rojas.

Thanks to Duboki Chakravarti for an amazing job on the Mars News and lots of other support.

And our head of community and communications is Brooke Shotwell.

The music you're hearing now and at the beginning of the podcast is by the great Gunnarola.

And as they say in our hometown, don't forget to be awesome.