373: Infinitely More Versatile (w/ Mike Trapp!)

Cold open.

Oh my gosh.

It's happening.

Hello, everyone.

It's kind of not happening, but it also is, but kind of not.

But you'll see.

So here's the situation.

I

am currently on a show, a show that is on the internet called Dimension 20.

The season is called Mentopolis.

It's a lot of fun.

It's a tabletop role-playing game show.

And this season is me and a bunch of cool people being inside of a man's mind and trying to solve mysteries.

It's like a, it's like inside out, but noir detective thriller.

And it's very fun.

And you can watch the first episode for free on YouTube.

And then the rest of them are behind a paywall at dropout.tv, which is a subscription service that I quite like.

And I'm a big Dimension 20 fan and I was really excited to be on the show.

And I am.

And when I was like, okay, this show is going to come out.

What we should do is we should record a bunch of podcasts with all the other people who are on the show with me.

And then I got diagnosed with cancer and I got very busy with that.

And I had only recorded one of them.

And so, and I was, we were going to release them during the release of Mentopolis, which is now going on.

So we're going to release the one that I recorded,

which is with Mike Trap.

And you can get that.

And it was recorded back before I had a diagnosis of any, I did not know there was anything wrong with me.

And you can watch the first episode of Mentopolis on YouTube by searching Mentopolis on YouTube.

So this is kind of not the thing.

We're kind of not coming back, but the news is we also are coming back.

We're going to start recording Dear Hank and John again, and they will start coming out in October.

I believe that's the plan.

They might come out a little bit sooner than that, but we'll see.

We're still, you know, in sort of a transitional phase.

Somebody used the phrase, healing season.

You're in a healing season with me the other day.

And I'm like, yes, I am in a healing season.

And I'm going to try and take care of me as much as I can.

So, thank you.

We're sorry that we went away for so long, and then we are very excited to come back.

But in the meantime, I hope that you will enjoy this episode of Dear Hank and John.

Except it is not Dear Hank and John, it's Dear Hank and Trap.

Hello, and welcome to Dear Hank and John.

Or as I like to call it, Dear Trap and Hank.

It's a podcast where two brothers and sometimes a brother and a friend to answer your questions, give you to beast advice, and bring you all the week's news from both Mars and AFC Wimbledon, but probably not that this week.

Hello!

We're joined by a special guest today.

This is Mike Trapp of Actually and various other cool things that have happened in the world.

College humor stuff and sometimes Dungeons and Dragons things.

Hello.

Hello.

Thanks for having me.

Do you know why you're on my on Dear Hank and John?

I mean, I think it has something to do with the fact that we have

recorded and hopefully by the time this comes out put out um a season of dimension 20 called mentopolis and we had a great time playing we did playing i was gonna say dnd it together i guess it was kids on bikes but we we we tabletop together and we had a great time and now we're just we're keeping the party going It's been so hard to not talk about this.

I don't know how people do that.

I am a YouTube boy and I live a YouTube life.

And to have made a piece of content, like, I don't even know, like months, almost a half a year between when it was recorded and when it comes out is very uncomfortable for me, especially when I have been as excited about it as I am about this.

Yeah, you don't get that instant gratification.

I mean, I've been, I've been writing for animated shows since 2020.

And what are some of your credits?

Well, that's what I was just about to say.

I can't talk about any of my credits because they haven't come out yet.

They're like, what have you been doing for the past three years?

And it's like, well,

one is a show that hasn't come out yet.

I don't think I'm even allowed to talk about it.

I think I can say that I'm writing on Big City Greens right now, but the stuff I'm writing won't come out for another two years or so.

So like, people are like, I want to check out your things.

It's like, you can't.

I either can't talk about it or you got to wait.

I'm writing things that are going to come out of the mouths of animated characters in three years' time.

It's great.

It's a fun job.

If you've ever wondered why there's not a lot of topical topical content on an animated show.

I will say, though, I kind of love that.

After writing for the internet for years and sort of needing to be on top of everything and have a take, it's really actually kind of refreshing to write stories that are like,

you kind of just have to write like timeless human stories because it's like, it'll be a while before it comes out.

So don't link it in time too much, you know?

I walked into the experience of

having watched a lot of Dimension 20,

seen you on Dimension 20, seen a lot of these other people on Dimension 20.

And

like sitting down with people, the majority of whom are professional improv comics and comedy writers.

Yeah.

Very intimidating, you guys.

They did this thing that was really, this is not meant, there will be regular Dear Hank and John, but they did this thing that was a very good idea where the day before we started recording, we played a little game together.

yeah like like you know we kind of developed some relationships and we played uh you know one one session in the world that was not recorded and um it actually i put it on my phone because i was i'm such a fanboy i was like i want to save this so i recorded it on my phone so i can listen to it just for me and um and it was that that was the scariest moment aside probably from like the very first like time I had it was like my turn to go and develop my story a little bit.

But then it like went so well.

Everybody's so crazily supportive.

And you in particular, like your character, you immediately embody this, this

horrible man.

He's not horrible.

He's a good guy, but he's like not an effective person.

No.

And

I like the character you created was just such a delight.

So I'm so excited to have people actually watch it.

It's on dropout TV, which does cost money.

I apologize.

Yeah.

Hey, sorry for putting this a safe one.

I'm sorry.

I got so much good stuff, though.

But yeah, I think you're right, too, that like the, this, I think that is why that, there is that session zero where, cause like that is the scariest point where it's like, oh, I'm playing for an audience, but I'm also playing for the people at this table.

And if you can like get one session to like clear out the anxiety about the people at the table and be like, we're all friends here.

Here's one less thing to worry about.

Like we'll get comfortable and then we'll worry about entertaining all the people out there.

Yeah.

And I was like, aren't we going to make this like a Patreon exclusive or something?

And they were like, literally, no.

The point is that there's no audience.

Yes.

Just accept it.

Which was hard for me.

You can monetize this.

You're telling me that I'm not supposed to talk right now?

That I'm not currently making content.

I don't know what that's like.

Me walking through the forest and filming things being like, I bet I should make a video about lichen

as my life.

So you want to answer some questions from our listeners' trap?

Let's answer some questions.

Yeah.

I miss y'all so much.

It's we've filmed for like five days and I'm like, my summer camp friends.

That is what it feels like.

It's like a series of like brief, intense,

and like you go through a big adventure together and then it just all kind of fades away.

Yeah.

And somebody cooks the food for you.

Yes.

Just like some

right.

This first question comes from Hannah, who asks, dear Hank and Trap, why is it called Eastern and Pacific Pacific Time?

Why not Eastern and Western or Pacific and Atlantic?

Never been to Montana, Hannah.

For clarity, and I've said this before on the podcast, Hannah Montana is not from Montana.

Her last name is Montana.

She is from Texas.

I don't know why her last name is Montana.

I guess just because it sounds good.

It is a constructed identity after all.

It does feel like time zones are sort of named a little willy-nilly, especially when you cram mountain time in there where it's like, hey,

that's where the mountains are we're cramming it

well i i do think like i don't i don't know the answer to this i'm gonna venture a guess here but i'm gonna i'm gonna venture a guess that it is um

that everything is coming from like an eastern centric point of view because that does seem to be how things go where it's like well clearly this is eastern time and then for them everything

Everything after that is Western.

So like, well, we have to be more specific than Western because the rest of the country, that's just, that's all West.

And like, they needed to like define it more.

That's kind of my guess.

But

we don't, I don't know that there was like an oral history of how this happened, but that is definitely part of it.

That the West, what we consider to be West, is so big that you can't have a Western time because I am in Montana, which is definitely the West.

Like, it's, you know, you think of Montana as more Western than you'd think of California being or Oregon.

But, uh, and so you, so it's like, can you really, can you say Western?

Um, but also, importantly, there is an Atlantic time zone.

Ooh.

It is the one that is east of Eastern.

So Puerto Rico is in it.

The Virgin Islands are in it.

And so

that was taken.

Or I don't know.

Somebody had to name these things.

So it was.

So there is an Atlantic and a Pacific time.

It's just that those are not referring to the...

parts of the U.S.

that are Atlantic and Pacific.

Interesting.

Though there's a lot of Pacific out there that also is in different time zones.

Yeah.

That's true.

Because you get the other end of the Pacific.

Yeah.

There's so much Pacific that it seems it's a little bit nuts that America's like, this is Pacific time.

It's the part that contains a very narrow slice of the Pacific Ocean.

Yeah.

It's like, what about the biggest of the oceans?

What about like a lot of Asia?

And what about parts of Russia and Hawaii and the Polynesian Islands?

Like, that's all Pacific, too.

Yeah, I mean, the part that's the Pacific time zone should be the one that has the least stuff in it.

And I have no idea what that time zone is called.

But yeah, I was a little bit surprised to find that there was an Atlantic time zone, even though obviously lots of people live in it.

Yeah, it feels like that, like, just thinking about how this sort of like Eastern-centric view of so much West, it's like, I still sort of feel like sometimes when people talk like the Midwest, it's like, you know, it's like, a lot of that's more East than it is West.

Like, you could call it the Midwest, but like, I don't, I don't know.

Like where are you?

It's all like, it's just pure historical reasons why it's like.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's because the people on the East Coast, as and as a person in Montana, I'm I accept

your lack of interest in what's going on.

And that's fine.

It's fine.

It's fine.

But also

if just a tip.

If you ever, if you ever say to me,

oh, Montana, I go there sometimes.

And because what I'm going to hear is I go skiing or fishing there.

Like I go to Whitefish or I go to Big Sky, which is a ski resort.

I know what you mean.

I know what you mean.

You don't go to Montana.

You like fly in on your private jet and you do a thing and then you leave again.

I remember

when I

grew up a military brat.

So I moved around a lot.

When I moved from California to Maine,

I remember talking with a lot of people and they were like, oh, what part of California did you just come from?

And I was like, oh, you know,

around San Francisco, around the Bay Area.

And the number of times people would say something like, it's like, oh, that's cool, cool.

You know, I just visited San Diego last summer.

And

I'd have to sort of like explain.

It's like,

the California geography, you have to understand, that would be like me being like, oh, I'm so glad to be here in Maine.

I went to North Carolina

last summer.

It's like, it's really, it's pretty far apart.

There's a lot of space.

Yeah, I got confused by San Diego for a while.

I don't know it particularly.

I was like, I don't know.

It could be anywhere.

It could be really anywhere between L.A.

and San Francisco.

And I don't think it even is.

No, no, it's south of L.A.

I've figured that out now.

I've gotten there.

I actually am going to San Diego shortly.

We'll have already gone when this podcast comes out.

And I was like, I can take the train from San Diego to Los Angeles.

And I did.

I booked the train ticket on Amtrak.

And they were like, here's your train ticket.

It's going to be amazing.

It's like, you could go three times on on this day.

I picked my time.

I'm going to be up there.

And then they sent me an email and they were like, that train line doesn't exist anymore.

And, but we can get you on a train, take you to a bus stop.

You could take a bus to another train station and then take a train to Los Angeles.

And I was like, oh,

I will drive.

Like, that's fine.

That's no thanks for that.

I remember I was so excited about my train trip and it's just canceled.

It's also, it was like supposed to be like one of the most beautiful train trips you can take because it just like goes along the beach in Southern California.

look at the waves.

I still, I remember hearing about this.

I wasn't clear whether it was a permanent closure or whether, because I think it was somehow related to like

the like rains washing away some important part of the tracks or something.

So I wasn't sure whether it was like, oh, we have to rebuild some things or whether it was like, no, we're permanently closing this.

But whether they were like, well, the train broke, so it's America and we're not going to fix that.

I mean, there was, there was a period a year or two ago where there was a portion of the Amtrak line in Big Sur that like there was a big old mudslide and washed it away.

And it was the same thing.

It's like, we'll take you halfway to San Francisco, then you can get on a bus and go through the mountains and we'll unload you on the other side, then keep going.

It's like, this is, none of this is

efficient or logical at all.

Yeah.

We'll figure out trains right around the time when we, like right before we invent transporters from Star Trek

and don't need them anymore.

I'm glad that we figured out the answer to your question, by which I mean we definitely did not.

This next question comes from Leah who who asks: Dear Hank and also Trap, what would happen if I blended my smoothie for a whole year?

I assume the smoothie would be blended so hard that it would just disintegrate into nothingness.

But uh, feel free to prove me wrong.

Have a blended day, Leah.

Yeah,

uh,

so

we're talking about a single smoothie

in a blender.

One year, you turn it on and you just let it go for the whole year.

One year.

I so I assume that there is a point at which you hit like terminal smoothness,

like a sort of terminal velocity.

Like there's a point at which it's like, this is a smooth, this, this smoothie's gonna be.

New to cut.

Yeah.

Everything that can get cut got cut.

Yeah.

But then I, then I sort of start, but what I kind of started wondering with this was

what happens to, like, does the movement, does the motion keep like bacteria from developing on this?

Certainly not, right?

Yeah.

I think we got a couple of problems

you're saying i shouldn't drink the smoothie at the end of this yeah yeah i mean i actually i do wonder because i you know mold

does re

most i think that mold actually

not all funguses but mold specifically do require for the fungus to be able to build a structure with all of its stuff sort of tied together and sort of hyphae like these like root structures that would also be getting blended.

So, like, they wouldn't be able to form a mold.

Bacteria don't care.

They're like, ooh, fun.

Like, it's a, it's a roller coaster and food.

Uh,

now that it's like, it'd be like a water slide made of smoothie for a bacteria.

It's just like having a great time.

And, and it's kale and carrots and apple juice.

Great.

Um, so I think that it would, you know, what there's like honey or something kind of antibacterial in there.

Is that going to help at all?

Well, there is a way to put enough something in there that that, so this is what this is correct.

This is the correct course of action.

I like that.

Okay, great.

We'll put something in the smoothie that makes it so the bacteria don't grow, or we dose it with a bacteria that's like cool, like the

outcomes heat, like a like a lactobacillus or something.

Or like a yeast.

Yeah, something good that actually maybe makes it into booze.

and then you got a booze smoothie at the end of the year and that's surprise you thought you were gonna get the smoothest smoothie of your whole life but actually you're drunk

um

and it's like a it's like you know kind of a chill kombucha vibe sure um

i think there's also a reality that your smoothie smoother is going to be adding energy to the system the whole time.

And I'm worried about the heat that your smoothie might get up to.

Yeah.

I was wondering too, but I mean, we should talk about the heat for sure, but also like just the pure mechanical problems of this engine running for, like, I feel like I get, I get nervous running my blender for like,

like for like

60 seconds.

I'm like, this is too long.

This is crazy.

You know,

it's making a lot of noise.

Yeah.

I feel like I'm break, actively breaking something just by having this running.

To have it running for a full year, it's like, I feel like that, that,

we'll talk about the heat first though.

No, like, so I think that if we took a blender from the 60s, that thing would just keep going.

That's

like they used to.

Exactly.

So

we have to get an old one because nowadays, I think you're right.

I think they'll just shake themselves apart in 25 minutes.

But those

60s blenders, they were made by people who were making airplane engines.

Like the same man.

Not the same company, the same man

made both the smoothie and the airplane engine.

And it's just going to go on the same wonderful day where he was like, He accidentally chucked a banana into the jet engine.

I was like, Holy moly, this goop's delicious.

We're really going to change things around here, Jeff.

Uh,

uh, uh, yeah, I don't, like, I think the heat in this system, the main, like, I think that you might actually get some,

well, also, you're gonna, there's gonna be oxygen in there, and it's just gonna be oxidized, like, you know, like a banana in

a room.

It's not going to be real brown.

Even if there's no bacteria around it, it just, it will break down.

And so I think that what you're going to end up with is a very smooth, and if you dosed it, if you've got a good blender that's from the 60s,

and

maybe you have

a thing in there to keep the temperature good, you're going to have a very, and some antibacterials, you're going to have a very smooth smoothie that's going to taste not good.

But how smooth is it?

Does the smoothness make it worth it?

It's going to be a textural experience.

I mean, it's like a level of smooth.

It's like, I am transcending to another plane.

I have smoothie pieces.

This might be how life happened.

You know, it's like you take a bunch of non-living chemicals,

mix them around, add some heat.

Maybe you, maybe you invent life again.

That would be, I mean, this is, this is like a new like Frankenstein thing where it's like, hopefully,

I just wanted to have a very smooth smoothie and somehow I've become God.

I've created life and I don't know what to do with my own creation.

Yeah.

Okay.

It has thoughts now and feelings and it doesn't want to die.

John Bajuce sells it for eight bucks.

But not as a smoothie, more as a friend.

It's a companion.

And if I get, if I get, if I get 10 of these, the next one's free, okay.

You can't keep making these things, Jamba Juice.

They have thoughts.

They have feelings.

This is an ethical problem.

They're normal men.

They're just innocent men.

Okay, here's another one.

It's from Andrew, who says, hello, blank and blank.

So it's almost like they knew.

Hello, Hank and Trap.

I'm a high school teacher and I get to overhear some of the greatest sentences ever.

Recently, I had two students walk into class arguing, and one of them said, you're hallucinating.

Potatoes are infinitely more versatile than cheese.

Oh, wow.

To which a third student across the room yelled, I've been preaching this for years.

What is objectively and or subjectively the most versatile food?

Slightly more versatile than Gouda Andrew.

I have strong and definite opinions on this subject.

I have thoughts on this too.

So

my immediate thought.

was just in answer to to the the debate that was going on that was overheard which is that i think cheese is easily more versatile than potatoes.

I think cheese is easily more versatile than potatoes.

Potatoes are very versatile.

I'm not taking

men.

I come here not to bake.

Besmirch the good name of potatoes.

Absolutely.

One of the very best things that ever happened, a potato.

But I do think that, you know, you look at like cheese can go on almost anything.

It can be a dessert.

It can be, it could be a whole meal.

It's,

I think, I think there's, there's no question even here.

I don't know how much we even need to get into this because it's so clearly knocking out the heart.

I feel like these children do not understand.

They haven't experienced anything like the true versatility of cheese.

Once I was, I was shopping.

I was going to go shopping for my roommates

in college.

And

someone had written cheese on the list.

And I said, Blink, this was his name.

Yeah.

I don't think that was his name when he was born.

But I said, Blink, what kind of cheese do you want?

And he said, regular.

This is an opinion of a person who

that a potato is more versatile than cheese.

That's an opinion of a person who thinks there's a regular cheese.

Yeah, there's multiple cheese.

By which cheese everything else is a spin-off.

By which he meant craft American singles.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

That's regular cheese, which I get.

Okay.

If there's a regular cheese out there, that's it.

At least for an American college student.

But oh my God, so much cheese.

But trap.

Yes.

Cheese is a kind of another food.

That was exactly my thought process, too.

Because it was like

potato is a food in and of itself, but cheese is a processed food.

So if you're going to say that cheese is more versatile, you then also have to say, well, milk is more versatile than cheese because milk includes the subset cheese, but also everything else that milk does.

But then also had the question.

Does it also include all of the milks?

Sure.

Wait, so not just, we're not just saying cow milk, all the milks.

And milk as a general category.

Anything a mammal creates.

Walrus milk, plateau milk.

Whale milk.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Camel milk.

Uh-huh.

I also was wondering, and I'm curious what you think about this.

Is salt a food?

No, actually.

I think that this has come up on this podcast.

I don't know.

Salt's in everything.

it's not salt's not yeah and you don't turn salt into other stuff you turn stuff into other stuff with salt but salt is a rock soft is a mineral that's like that if that were the case water would be the most versatile food i mean i was neither of them have calories

yeah

because yeah like milk is made of water and stuff uh so in that case cheese is made of water and stuff meat is made of water and stuff but you just go down to the atomic level we're We're finally saying, like,

I think carbon.

I think carbs are versatile.

Yeah.

Definitely.

It could, it could be, it can be each of the things.

It can be salt.

It can be carbs.

It can be alcohol.

It can be the other one that I forgot.

I also think there's potentially an argument to be made for, I was just thinking of like, well, what do we like?

What do we grow a lot of?

What do we eat a lot of?

If I was thinking, and there might be an argument to be made for soy being an extremely versatile food.

Yeah, soy and corn.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because those, I mean, like, just in terms of pure industrial

uses, those go into just about everything.

And like, you can have a, you can have a meal that is like

miso glazed soy with some edamame on the side.

And it's like, that's just like soy three ways.

But you, you would kind of look at that and be like, yeah, that's a meal.

Whereas you can't really have like butter on cheese with the glass of milk.

Like that.

Nobody's having that dinner.

Not without severe regrets at the end of the night.

I can do it.

I could pull this off.

I don't know that you can make a bread out of cheese, but you can.

Well, you can't really make a soy bread.

But I bet you can.

I bet somebody has made soy bread.

Yeah.

And they make soy milk.

And you can like turn almost anything into a flour, it feels like you dry it out and grind it up.

It's a lot of people like it these days.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's not going to be super effective all the time, but it's like, yeah, you're soy flour.

You can do something with that.

It's a, it's a wild world that we live in now where we've decided to flour everything.

Everything gets flourished.

And also milk everything.

It's, it's shot and it's like, like, what milks are next?

I mean, I'm totally in favor of getting animals out of the process.

It seems like a lot to ask.

of another organism to be like, hey, I know that that's for your baby, but I'm a 42-year-old man and I want to put it on a cracker.

So

get on into this machine.

So I'm totally in favor of figuring out other solutions to this problem, but I do wonder what we're going to milk next.

Because I didn't see cashews coming.

Yeah.

It feels like we've hit a lot of nuts.

Well, plenty more nuts left.

There's a lot of nuts left.

I want to say just because also like cauliflower has been big in the like, I'm pretending to be something else game or maybe cauliflower milk.

That sounds disgusting.

Sounds like maybe someone's going to try it.

Yeah.

Here's how I feel.

I think that we've been at cheese and milk products for longer.

Like we've got ice cream and we've got

just the regular milk and we've got all the different cheeses and we've got curds and whey and I don't know what else we do with that.

It seems like we're doing a lot.

But I think that we've been working at some of these other problems for less time where we can actually like turn.

Like I think, in my opinion fungus is the future i think that we're going to figure out how to make anything out of fungus we'll have we'll have mushroom milk and mushroom cheese and mushroom meat and mushroom everything there's been a lot of dairy substitutes in my house lately because uh my daughter has um my young infant daughter has a has a insensitivity to cow milk protein uh which means that my wife cannot consume any dairy or eat any beef.

Otherwise, my daughter will have health problems when that protein passes through the breast milk.

And so we've been just trying.

Like, it's like, what's this?

Is this any good?

Is this?

And

my wife was particularly fond of

a fungus-based cream cheese substitute.

She was like, this is actually pretty close.

It's like, it's

interesting to find?

Yes.

I love that.

It's so good.

It's like

we did sponsors for them on SciShow.

We did a whole thing complexly to sponsor.

And like they sent us

chicken nuggets.

Yeah.

I mean, their cream cheese is better than cream cheese.

It's so good.

And it's like based on the, it's based on the fungus like grows in the hydrothermal events at Yellowstone National Park or something.

I love that.

Like I,

if true, if we can harness fungus to make me any food I want, like, what a dream.

What a horrifying dream.

Yeah.

A beautiful, horrifying dream.

Yeah.

Like people sometimes wrinkle their nose at like meat grown in vat and grown in vats and things like that.

And I, I'm kind of like, no, let's do that.

That sounds incredible.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

I'm trying to figure out what time zones are in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, but they don't have names on this map.

Oh.

There's got to be somebody who's...

Maybe, do the time zones not all have names?

Sure, they do.

They must.

I mean, I guess it's...

Well,

who named them?

Now I'm wondering.

Now I'm like going back and thinking about this.

Because it's, you're covering full vertical swaths of, you know, of the world.

You're cutting across many countries.

Every time you're like, this is the time zone.

Do they have the same name in other countries?

Did everyone agree, like, yeah, yeah, like this is, this is what this time zone is?

Right, right.

Or is it like, it's got to be like any other place name where like the people in the place call it something and then everybody else calls us their like whatever they felt like that day like Florence.

Is most of the Eastern time zone in like

Western South America, right?

Because

that aligns like that, right?

I'm not looking at a map, so maybe maybe I'm selling.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The Eastern time zone is Western South America.

So do they call it the Eastern time zone in South America?

That's a great point.

What do they call it?

If you're from Peru, please let me know what you call your time zone.

If you call it Eastern time, that must be so annoying.

You must be so mad.

That's some deeply annoying colonial stuff there.

Like, we decided Eastern United States, everything here is to the east.

Yep.

You forget how far to the east, South America is.

Yeah.

It is all over there.

Isn't China all in one time zone, too?

Like, they did put all of China in one time zone.

China was like, here's what we're going to do.

I know it sounds wild, but we're going to go over a border and time's going to change by eight hours.

Trivia boys here.

Trivia boys.

Speaking of which, what do you call a potato wearing glasses while it's watching a football game?

What do you call a potato wearing glasses while it's watching a football football?

It's a spectator.

Aww.

I kind of like that.

Thanks.

You're welcome.

Thanks, Heidi.

Okay, let's do another question.

Here is from Mark, who asks, Dear Hank and Trap, I was surfing Google Maps late last night.

Go to sleep, Mark.

And I came across a town in rural Georgia with nearly completely circular, a nearly completely circular boundary.

It's called Homer, Georgia.

Zooming out and scrolling around, I began to notice that, in fact, there were dozens of towns in Georgia and South Carolina with circular borders.

Most have slight deviations from the circle to include this or that neighborhood or a plot of land, but many retain a puzzling circularity.

In my experience, this is not how we create municipal borders in Ontario, Canada.

What gives?

What are these towns centered on?

As former residents of the U.S.

Southeast, do you guys have any idea?

I don't know.

Did you ever live in the Southeast, Trap?

I did not ever live in the Southeast, actually.

Of all the places.

But I bet you can guess.

Distinct boundaries and dogwood trees, Mark.

Do you have a guess?

I have a guess.

I have a guess that

if you have a circular border, you have to be...

not close to other things for those circles to run into them, to other towns, that is.

Yes, correct.

So I would guess that they are probably centered on either a church or a like crossroads.

That is like, these are the two roads that go through where our town, you know, the town founding was here.

And that will probably be like a church or a crossroads or some kind of point of commerce and be like

20 mile ranges around this point.

Yeah, where two rivers come together.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, and they just said everything within a certain distance from this point and mathematically defined the town.

Yeah.

Which I kind of love.

Indianapolis is actually like this, except instead of it being a circle, it's a square.

And now it's like added like little bits onto the side, just like, you know, they incorporate new area.

But if you look up Indianapolis, I do this because my brother was there.

And I'm like, this is not what I would have imagined things to look like.

But yeah, it's just a, it's just a perfect little square.

It's beautiful.

There's a nice simplicity to having like a perfect square or a perfect circle as like your borders.

And certainly, if you're trying to be like, here are the borders of our town, it seems very simple on paper to be like 12 miles out from this point or whatever it is.

And just sort of like rather than being like, the northern point is this and the sun is this.

But it does feel like you're going to run into like rivers, mountains, other municipalities, things that are like traditionally borders of towns and that like probably you have to make adjustments for that.

I've just zoomed in on the very precise center of Homer, Georgia.

Because I was like, well, is it the crossroads?

And there is indeed a crossroads.

You are correct.

It's very clear crossroads.

And

as far as I can tell, the exact center of Homer, Georgia is about 300 feet north of the crossroads.

So either Google Maps has just messed with me or the people who created Homer, Georgia were a little confused that day.

Like, it's not like they had perfect surveying equipment.

So they like decided and drew the line and then they were like, I guess we're stuck with what we got.

I'm guessing that most of these towns, these circular towns, I'm going to guess that a lot of them are

maybe on the smaller side.

I don't know if that's true.

Tumor has 1,300 people.

Okay.

I'm willing to bet that almost all of these towns has like a field trip for third graders to go visit the center of town.

And it's like, you know,

or it's like there's probably some plaque there in all of these or something to sort of being like, this is it.

Pretty cool, huh?

i are

i want to see if all of them are like this carnesville is kind of like that oh he's right they're all like this

it just became the way to do it um let's see where the center of carnesville is oh no it doesn't like that at all

never mind it's not gonna like you're getting too close to the truth hank you have to go back this is google map just stops you be like you're you're you're digging too deep stop looking stop looking at the center of carnesville i really love the idea that if you figure out that there's like some hidden code, that if you figure out the like how far from the center of each town or something the circle, the center of the circle actually is, this is always

like some like damn brown treasure thing where you find the Declaration of Independence at the end of it or something.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It seems like the

bones of George Washington will be like the fourth installment of national treasure or something.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's like there's a code hidden in small towns in rural Georgia.

oh yeah god yeah you just have to like yeah you gotta you gotta get a whole new outfit so you fit in you get a pickup truck with a gun rack on it and go around be like look i'm just a guy who likes history yeah it's no big deal and then at the end of it you're like golden teeth i found george washington's golden teeth i'm a millionaire

can bite through anything that's

It's the only thing that can stop something bad.

If you put them in your mouth, you become George Washington.

10 feet tall.

We've all heard the legend, right?

We've heard that legend.

You put in George Washington's teeth, you become George Washington.

Which reminds me that this podcast is brought to you by, weirdly enough, George Washington's teeth.

George Washington's teeth, the good ones, though.

This podcast is also brought to you by the smoothest, smoothie at Jamba Jews.

It's so smooth, it's sentient.

This podcast, additionally, is brought to you by the Eastern Time Zone in Western South America.

That's some BS.

This time zone is also brought to you by a lamp grown out of fungus.

You can grow anything out of fungus if you try hard enough.

Why not a lamp?

It's where the future is going.

So, you know, when a new shirt just becomes your go-to?

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This next question comes from Daphne, who asks, Dear Hank and Trap, I recently saw this artistic post with the caption, Get under the shower, you dirty,

and I was really caught off guard by the use of under rather than in.

Should it be under?

I understand that we get in the bath because we're literally in the water, but we aren't in the water in a shower.

We're under it.

When we talk about showers, do we mean the glass box that we stand in or the stream of water coming out of the shower head?

Starting to think John might be right about baths, Daphne.

First of all, John's, I mean, I guess it's fine.

You can bathe whatever way you like.

I'm sorry.

Are you a bather?

I am not.

And the place I live now has no bath.

It just has a shower.

So even if I was a bather,

I would have no choice.

I wouldn't be able to.

I like this question because my initial response to hearing like, get under the shower is like, that's so wrong.

Don't say that.

That's not the right preposition for that.

But then it is like, well, I can't, I do think that like a shower by definition has to be above you.

Right.

Like you can't have a shower coming from any other direction.

But I think I can get in a shower and not get wet.

Okay.

So you're, you're saying the shower is definitely.

Because I don't, because I think that you're getting in the shower.

Okay.

It's the, it's the room.

It's the small little room that is created for the water to be.

But you can have showers of things that are not the shower right because you can have rain showers or showers of light and like that can still apply to and those are going outside and it's and it's raining like it's a it's a it's a shower it's a shower that's a

witch that's i'm now i'm having a really hard time with with the calling of a rainstorm a shower which is a thing that we do but now i don't like it anymore i'm i'm gonna i'm protesting and i don't want to i don't want to play one particularly dirty man who's like ah there's a shower outside it's like that's not what that is that's rain we know what rain is like no no no it's a shower.

I totally got it.

I don't have an umbrella.

I don't need to do that.

What are they?

They say, like, light showers.

I hate this now.

Why do I not like this suddenly?

Now it feels like it's designed to clean you.

Yeah.

But I do think, but also, like, if you

if you, if you had a shower stall and there was a shower nozzle that was coming from any direction but above you,

if you got a hotel and you went into the bathroom

and they're like, here's the shower, and it just like blasts from the sides, I feel like I would be like, that's not a shower, that's something else.

By far, the best option here is if it comes right up from the bottom.

Right.

Like it's just the giantest bidet

of all time.

And it's just like, we know where the problem is.

It's like, yeah, this is where most of the filth.

It's like those things bartenders use to clean glasses, you know?

Just put the glass on top and just blasts water up.

You're just in the container compartment.

It doesn't turn on until your feet hit it.

Yeah.

It's like, and

it comes so strong and so hard.

You really want it to stop.

I hate the shower.

Well, is it a shower?

That's the thing.

I think it's a shower if it's in the shower.

Also, you don't get, you don't just get in a shower.

If I'm telling you that I'm about to be showered and I'm gonna clean myself, I don't say I'm gonna get in the shower, do I?

I say I'm gonna take a shower,

which makes me think that just a great deal of empathy for people who have to learn how to speak English.

Because what

you're not taking it anywhere.

Where are you taking it?

It's not yours.

You're not, you're not, you're not.

Like, what is the shower that is being taken?

Is it the concept?

Is it the action?

Well, to loop things back around to

rain, too, like I didn't think about this until

I took Russian in college.

I retained almost none of it.

But one of the things I did retain was like really taking in how strange the construction it's raining is.

Because it's like, well, what is raining?

It is raining.

And it's like, what does it refer to?

It's like just the general state of being.

Like,

the outside is raining right now but that's not right either it's just like it it is raining and that construction doesn't exist in Russian in Russian

just if you want to say it's raining you say like the rain goes or something something similar to that it's like the rain is going right now it's like well that feels awkward

makes more sense than it yeah it's like is it God like what is it is raining like oh no I like this less than there are showers

yeah

yeah yeah and I'm gonna take one

and then i and then i guess i'll have it but i won't have it anymore i will have had it right

mentally i took a shower i took a shower and then it and then it stopped existing but to go back for a second now you you said you said something about like getting into the shower like that defines the shower or something like that yeah i can get into the i can get into the shower and not get wet i cannot take a shower and stay dry but i can get into the shower and not be wet.

Okay.

I can be in there just like, I don't know, looking at watching a movie.

I see.

So you're saying that that is a more precise way of, because if you say get under the shower, that means you are under the water.

But if you're saying get into the shower, you can be within the stall of the shower, but not under the shower of water.

Yeah, but I also think that in this particular construction, whereas whatever the joke was that you got to take a take a shower, you dirty b ⁇ .

You can't.

In that situation, you got to say, get under the shower.

It's abstracting from the normal speech so that we can enjoy the phrase more.

Because if you just said, take a shower, you dirty.

That's not fun.

But if you say, get in the shower, you dirty b, that's a little more fun than take a shower because it's like, you get in there.

I'm telling you to get in.

But if it's get under, that's more fun.

I don't agree.

I don't know why

language.

Yeah.

It's like, you know, like, you know, when writing advice, like, they always say, like, you know, avoid cliches.

And I, and, uh, but so much that's because you just like, once you hear a phrase enough times, like, it no longer makes an impact anymore.

Right.

And I think it's that.

It's like you just like tweak the words enough to be like, like, you really have to think about a shower now that I've like changed these, the, the structure of this just a tiny bit.

Yeah, yeah.

It's like, it's like creating some kind of structure that's pointing out the sort of ridiculousness of the phrase, take a shower, yeah, or it's raining.

Give me, Give me something that pulls me out of the, out of the sort of, you know, tropes of English speech, and

I'll be like, well, that actually is more like what I'm doing.

I'm more getting under the shower than I am taking one.

Or over the shower, if you decide to install one of our crazy bartender glass sessions.

Okay, well, I think I learned way more about both the English language and water being sprayed on people than I expected to today.

This next question comes from Sabrina, who asks: Dear Hank and Trap, why is surprise such a large source of joy?

Like, people go out of their way to buy a surprise, surprise toys, mystery boxes, and bags.

And there are even places on Etsy where they will send you a surprise outfit.

Now, I have to admit, I am also a victim to the marketing scheme of a surprise.

For some reason, the joy of opening a box with a mystery in it is so much more satisfying than picking something out for myself.

Why are we so much more willing to spend money on a mystery rather than a a sure thing?

A teenager, but not a witch, Sabrina.

That's a great question.

I hadn't really thought about that, despite the fact that I run a surprise sock company.

Never questioned why people would want to purchase your product.

Well, I don't know.

Like, I have always kind of thought, maybe thought that that's kind of a bit of a drawback that you don't get to know what the socks are going to look like before they arrive.

But now I'm thinking, yeah, it's kind of a little surprise that I get to have.

I like it.

I'm fully with Sabrina here,

but this is coming from someone who I'm a very indecisive person.

And I feel like

and it only gets harder for things that don't really matter.

Like if it's a choice that really matters, it's like you can do a pretty good weighing of like pros and cons and stuff like that.

But if it's something like, well, let's say like like, here's 80 different patterns of sock you can have.

And it's like, I don't, I have to make a choice if I'm going to buy a pair of socks, but I don't, I I don't want to, doesn't really matter, but I still have to make a choice.

And like that can be kind of paralyzing.

So having someone else just be like, I'm going to take care of this for you, I think is very comforting.

And then you get, but I don't also don't think, so that's comforting, but there is, I think, a second, there's like a separate joy that comes from like actually like the discovery, right?

Of like actually opening it and seeing like, what is this thing?

What did I get?

And that's, I think, a separate thing from just like avoiding a decision.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I think

there's a piece of that's like, can someone curate this for me?

Like, I need a person who's better at socks than me.

And I'd like you to choose that.

I actually have,

there's a local business in town that will give you a

thrifted item.

Every, not give, but you buy, like you pay a monthly thing and they'll just like give you one of the, one of the things that they thought was really cool.

And I love it.

I like, I love it.

I wore one of them on our series and everybody complimented me on that that shirt.

So, when the fuzzy red one with the collar,

when that one's there, every single person I walked by on that day was like, oh, my, well, I love that one.

And so I was like, what's wrong with all my other clothes?

No one has said anything for the other five outfits.

Oh, we deeply hate those.

Does you know?

We really, really hate those.

So I do love the curation aspect of a person that I trust making a decision for me.

But I also think that there is something to like, I don't know what it's going to be and then I find out what it is.

I love that.

I think it's a value that's, that is delivered.

And I like a blind bag from like the Disney store with a Mickey that's painted like Boba Fett, maybe.

I'm into that.

I don't know why.

It's the experience.

Yeah, I think there are neurotransmitters.

Yeah, what I'm running into is this sort of like, I'm like running into like that endless chain of why, right?

Where it's because like, I do think there is something inherently joyful about discovery, like the chance to experience something new for the chance for novelty, the chance to, like, that is, I think, inherently joyful.

And going, like, getting a box and being like, I don't know what's inside this, but for that moment, it has the potentiality to be something that could be incredible, something you've never seen before that would really make you happy.

There's like a, there's like maximum potential in there.

And I think.

And there's almost like anxiousness as well.

Like, there's worry in that moment.

That's the worry is part of the excitement.

Like, I don't know what it's gonna be and and i'm worried that i'm like sometimes like maybe i don't know maybe i'm not gonna like it yeah and but and i think that there that it is something that is like that is just like deep within us like i i think about surprise a lot because because i i write comedy scripts and like so much of comedy is about surprising people but in a way that like also makes sense and is logical.

And so it's like, okay, well, how do you like blend those two together?

And like, how do you set up expectations in just the right way so that you can come in from the other side and surprise someone?

And they spend so much time like trying to arrange the conditions for maximum surprise, but not a lot of time asking, but why do we like to be surprised?

Why is the surprise in and of itself like something that is

a joy?

And I don't know, but it does feel like something like deep and biological.

It's yeah, I bet it is a an evolved trait that

conferred advantage to our ancestors, you know?

Sure.

Where it's like, and

I think that humor is one of, it's hard to see it in other species.

I, like, I'm not going to say that it's definitely not there, but it's, it's very there for people.

It's a really big deal.

And it's so weird.

Like, I bet if, if and when we meet some other intelligent species a thousand years in the future, they won't have humor like we do.

They won't have laughter like we do.

They, they, like, that, I don't, like, it, it seems weird enough that it's pro, like, it's probably something that wouldn't happen every time an intelligent living system evolved and like that makes it really special I feel like whereas music is all around like lots of different organisms make music which I think is another really lovely thing that people do but jokes feel pretty just human yeah we're so goofy

maybe and maybe a little like I'll something you said made me think about maybe it was in sapiens uh if you read that book yeah yeah um but there

there's something I read that was talking about like how much human evolution has been sort of like supportive of risk takers or like or from a sort of broad point of view of like humans have been rewarded for taking kind of insane risks, whether that is like canoeing across the Pacific or spreading across like continents and being like just like a little bit crazy, like just crazy enough to like do take these like these big risky moves that that a lot of times fail but sometimes pay off and then they pay off big and i wonder if if this is all tied together of like this sort of like you're being rewarded for taking a risk you're being rewarded for for unknown for like looking at the unknown and going like ooh that's cool right and uh and if you're being like sort of if you're getting like these this like you know dopamine rush from like wow the unknown that's cool and then to tie it back to you're like do aliens have humor like that does that mean that like we just look totally insane like we're just laughing and giggling and taking insane risks and it's like a little bit crazy like we're like the crazy old prospector that you come into that is he's just like giggling and laughing.

It's like, man, that species is just off its rock.

Well, I mean, please let me know if you know about this out there listening.

Because so there's a, there's a lot of,

there are traits.

So evolution does this, where you have a visible trait that's representative of something, representative of something else, but it's actually a good representation.

Like antlers growing out of the head of an elk are going to be bigger if that elk is better at finding resources and fighting off people competing for those elk competing for those resources.

So, like, it's an actual sign of that elk's ability to thrive is how big the antlers are.

You know, it's older, it's been able to eat a lot of food, it's big, it's strong.

And so, it's not like, it's not like a, it's not like something you can fake.

You can't grow big antlers if you didn't actually succeed.

And, and so maybe there, this is like humor and like the feeling of joy at surprise might be, or like not necessarily being able to make a joke, but being able to enjoy one might be like antlers, but for like risk-taking, like safe risk-taking and

like social success.

Where if you're good at like enjoying and laughing at a joke, it's a surrogate signal that you are also good at being curious and taking a risk intelligently.

Interesting.

And so that's like, like, humor evolved as a way to signal our ability to do those things.

Seems like something that

a researcher might have looked into.

And if you know about that, please send me the paper because I would love to see that.

I could also see, but now we're just talking about humor instead of surprise.

Well, they're kind of tough.

Yeah, you're talking like

there being something to this developing as just a way of dealing with the sort of like the cosmic horror of consciousness.

maybe every conscious organization

is really goofy because you can't do it otherwise.

You can't, it would just drive, it's like it's that you have to be a little goofy or you have to go totally insane.

You have to like look at the world around you and be like, this is so crazy.

None of this makes any sense.

It's it to be conscious right now on this earth is so much, so unlikely and so stupid that I have to laugh at it.

Otherwise, I will just crumple into a ball at the enormousness of it.

We need someone to do a big fart right now, or else

it's not going to work.

We can't be humans without nice big fart sounds that we can have a good time with.

I like that farts are loud.

I think I talked about this on Twitter a while back where I said, the fact that farts are loud kind of indicates that loud farts didn't hinder our ancestors' ability to procreate.

And I love that for them.

Yeah.

It's interesting to like

something

do

let me posit this question to you.

Okay.

And then I'll back up and explain where this is coming from.

Do you think humans have the loudest farts?

And now I'm going back up and say, because humans I know have a pretty large butt ratio, but to the rest of your body ratio because we are bipedal and we like need those strong gluteal muscles to like move us around.

Yeah, they do different kind of work.

And a lot of the sound is going to come from air moving between between those big old cheeks.

It actually maybe doesn't.

Okay.

So, so I actually, I've looked into how fart noise happens, and it mostly does not.

So like the cheeks matter.

Oh, of course the cheeks matter.

The actual sound, though,

isn't the, it's not the cheeks hitting each other.

The sound is actually the anus itself flapping.

So it's the anus

smacking together as pressure builds behind, and then the pressure is released.

And then when the pressure releases, the anus slaps together again.

The pressure builds.

The anus opens.

It slaps together.

After it releases, the pressure builds again over and over and over again.

It's just like you can do it with a balloon.

It's the same, like mechanistically, the same thing is happening.

But it's the, it's...

But most of the sound is from the anus and not the cheeks.

Yeah, the cheeks can control what the anus is doing.

So like if you like lift the cheek, you can fart more quietly because the cheek isn't causing the anus to like it's not putting that pressure to slap it back together again, but the noise is actually and also I think that it matters, like the loudness of the fart matters.

That the rectum is full of gas, and so like is kind of a sound,

like resonant chamber.

I can tell you're a professional radio man because

as soon as you, when, when you start describing the cheeks clapping together, you clapped too.

So the audience could be fully transported to the visual of two cheeks, a fart so loud.

No, not the cheeks, it's the anus.

Stop misinforming people.

Actually,

Sabrina, did this answer your question about why you like your mystery dress?

But seriously, another thing I really desperately want to know is what species has the loudest fart.

And if it is humans,

I think that without a doubt, that means that farts, we evolved intentionally loud farts.

Like in Stomach, it didn't hinder us.

It helped us.

I really think there's a good chance that it could be humans.

Cause I think we do have loud farts.

Loud farts.

And I think there's probably like so many.

I try to imagine so many like predator-prey relationships where it's like, hey, it is really

evolutionarily disadvantageous for you to have a loud fart right now.

Like

that jaguar is going to eat you if you let out that, if you like let one rip right now.

Which is like true for humans too, like with things prey on humans.

But I wonder if sort of like, I don't know, being sort of top of the food chain for a while or whatever has sort of allowed loud farts to

exist.

So then you would think that the things with the loudest farts are going to be either the top of the food chain or the really big animals that don't have to worry so much.

Yes.

I was just reading that hippos.

Because I was like, like, maybe hippos have loud farts.

They don't, though.

They have quiet farts.

They have long farts and they have disgusting farts, but they don't.

they're silent but deadly they're not they're not loud uh so like great white sharks can't possibly have a loud fart they're sharks do they fart at all i don't know i'd love to know the answer to that question that well that seems like something i should know uh elephants you didn't you didn't catch that scene in jaws

like it's like you've got a great white the loudest farters on the planet i like the i do like the idea that they're there on the ss indianapolis there's like a there's like a mouse hiding from a fox and it's just like be very quiet and its little heart's just

and it's sitting there next to its like, you know,

like mouse wife.

And she's like, quiet, Henry, quiet.

And then, and then he's like, oh, no, Susan, Susan.

And she's like, what's wrong, Henry?

And he's like, and he's just like,

tiny mouse fart.

And then the fox is just like,

that's the, but we don't have to worry.

We're, we're humans.

We can fart in front of a great white shark.

And actually, probably, that would be a bad idea.

We are on on a, on a on a species level the rude uh the like rude husband from a 90s sitcom who's like we're just letting it go like what are you gonna do eat us you can't

good luck with your time zone south america

um

i i've i have so many questions and i feel like we're about to get to a really deep and true truth about humans.

So we need to stop the podcast.

Because if we get to it through farts, then we're going to, then, then like, I don't know what anybody's going to take us seriously.

And also, it might be a problem for the eventual white paper that we publish in nature.

So, but I'm looking forward to doing that.

Everybody, go check out Mentopolis on Dropout TV.

It was one of the

best things I have ever done in my life creatively.

It was so good.

So,

yeah,

I'm extraordinarily privileged to have been able to be a part of that cast.

So, thanks for doing it with me, Trappin.

Thanks for coming on.

Oh, I felt privileged to be able to play with you, of course.

It was a great time.

And there's also lots of other really amazing stuff on dropout.tv.

If you haven't heard of that or seen it, what's happening?

Come on, Game Changer?

Come on.

It should get Emmys.

It's the best.

I hope it gets a Tony for Christ's sake.

I don't know how, but I feel like.

How did they do this?

Someone put an iPhone on stage and they just let it play with the autoplay for through a couple seasons of Game Changer.

And somehow they got a tone in it.

That's how it works.

That's how it works these days.

If you want to send us questions for the podcast, you can do that at hankandjohn at gmail.com.

We don't have a podcast without you, so thank you to everybody who does that.

This podcast is edited by Joseph Tunamedic.

It's produced by Rosiana Hallsrojas.

Our communications coordinator is Brooke Shotwell.

Our editorial assistant is Debuki Trapravarti.

The music you're hearing now and at the beginning of the podcast is by the great Gunnarola.

And as they say in our hometown, don't forget to be awesome.