The Secret to Viral Marketing? It’s Not Marketing.

Your greatest marketing tomorrow is the service that you deliver today.

Customer experience moments are the best marketing material.

Look at what just happened to the appearance of your business.

The gap in your service you don't realize exists.

I don't know how many of these organizations and businesses are actually sitting down around the table.

with customers.

That's what I think I've been most intrigued by in the last like couple conversations I've had is how people are using these AI tools to augment the employees so that way they can actually focus more on that human experience.

There's your efficiency.

Taking out those mundane, everyday, lots of people can do the same type of thing.

If you were to recognize ChatGPT for their great ideas,

what does that do to your team?

When profits go before people, that's when I start to worry.

We have these great customer experiences that we can highlight and share.

It actually makes the job of the marketing team, the job of the sales team so much easier.

This is what I do in my interactive workshops and masterclasses.

Now, maybe we've got a list of 20 ideas.

Five of those might be illegal.

I was going to say, some of these would be pretty outrageous.

One question's changed everything in that person's mind who thought she was delivering a high level of service.

Jeff, I'm bought in.

I'm interested.

I'm intrigued.

I want to apply this to my business.

What do I do?

Lacey, did you hear anything about this viral Marriott Hotels customer experience with this like teenage girl leaving her lammy, her childhood stuffed animal, at a Marriott hotel.

Okay, wait, I've heard someone mention this on the show, or is this new?

Is this recent?

This happened.

This is like maybe within a couple of weeks.

Okay, someone definitely mentioned it, but I did not look into it.

So, I don't know the details.

I don't know the conclusion of the story.

So, tell me, Rose, what happened?

Okay, and honestly, I haven't been on social media enough lately.

So, shout out Brie Reynolds.

She's a senior consumer comms manager at Yahoo.

I saw her post about this six days ago, and I immediately saved it.

And I was like, I have to talk to Lacey about this because this is so cute.

And shout out Marriott.

So

this girl, Ava, basically, she's maybe like in her 20s.

She made a TikTok and she's got 4,000 followers.

So she's not a huge influencer.

Yeah.

She made a TikTok and she posted it saying

that she was really sad.

She traveled to a

Marriott hotel in Hawaii and she left her cherished like childhood stuffed animal, her Lammy, there.

And

lo and behold, just maybe a week or two later, she receives Lammy in the mail.

But not only does she receive her stuffed animal from Marriott, they sent Lammy with a custom Marriott robe.

Like Lammy was wearing a robe.

Yeah.

Like that fit him, like the right size.

Oh my gosh.

And it was the right size.

And we'll put an image on screen of what Lammy came,

how Lammy came home and all of his new attire.

Oh my gosh.

They also sent him with a custom Marriott team member shirt.

So there was a little like uniform, Marriott uniform that fit Lambie.

Yeah.

Oh, so as well as, yeah, and the cutest, well, honestly, the best part, in my opinion, maybe this isn't, this is me not being sentimental enough.

She also got a three-night voucher to any Marriott hotel.

So they gave her like a free three-night stay anywhere she wants to stay.

Wow.

Okay.

I should start leaving stuff in hotels.

Is that what I'm hearing?

I think so.

Let's go digging through our attic and try to find your childhood stuff.

Oh my gosh.

It was just a really sweet, like, she didn't have to post about any of it.

And she she ended up posting about it.

And it's obviously gone viral.

But I just, I thought that complemented our interview and the theme of our interview today so well.

I agree 100%.

I think it's a great lead into who we talked to today.

Okay, but like pause there.

The amount of coordination that the social media manager of the TikTok account for Marriott had to reach out to God knows who to like contact that hotel, the managing staff there, probably the cleaning service there.

And then like whoever's in charge of their like, they must probably have a, you know,

lost and found area somewhere in the hotel.

Like that alone was a whole thing just to get in contact with finding it, let alone sending it back to her with all these cool gifts.

Like that's amazing.

That's so true.

And I didn't think about that.

I didn't even think about the size of Marriott and the amount of teams and coordination that probably

required to make that happen.

And something Bree says in her LinkedIn post, which I love, she starts it saying Marriott Hotel's social team spent $80 for 330,000 impressions.

Like it was, it's not like they spent thousands on this person to try to wow them.

It was such a simple gesture that meant so much.

Another reason why I want Marriott to come on the show, subtle plug for anyone that can make an intro.

Yeah.

Marriott, shout out Marriott.

Yeah, come on, let's talk.

Well, okay.

Lacey, should we introduce ourselves to anybody that maybe is new to the podcast?

Oh, yeah.

Like, hello.

My name is Lacey Peace.

I'm the host of Experts of Experience.

And Rose, you are?

I am Rose Shocker.

I am a producer.

I produce Experts of Experience, and I get to sit on these really, really cool interviews.

She makes everything happen, ladies and gentlemen.

Without her, there is no show.

I'm trying not to argue with you about that, but I appreciate it.

Well, welcome back, everyone.

Today, we've got an amazing guest that we've teased a little bit.

His name is Jeff Ram.

He's been described by Forbes as a game changer, which is very impressive.

He's a creator, an author.

He's written two books called Celebrity Service and Celebrity Service Superstars.

He's talked to audiences all over the world.

And we've got to sit down with him one-on-one to hear what celebrity service is all about, how to implement it in your company, and ultimately just like endless stories from him on what this actually looks like in practice.

Yeah, it's a super practical episode.

He gives the five steps basically to attain this celebrity service framework.

Everything he lays out, I think, is very applicable no matter what industry you're in or what size your company is.

It's an exercise you can do with your team today.

But before we get over to Jeff, I've got one thing to ask of all of you.

Please hit that subscribe button.

It lets us know that we're doing great work here and helps us get these amazing guests that we get to speak to every single week.

Yeah.

And go hit up Lacey's LinkedIn page, hit up the Experts of Experience page, hit us up on LinkedIn, tell us what questions you want us to ask.

It's such a privilege to be able to sit down with these executives.

So we want to make sure we're asking the right questions.

So if there's something that you want to know about, let us know.

Absolutely.

Okay.

We've teased you enough.

Without further ado, here's Jeff Ram, author of Celebrity Service and Celebrity Service Superstars.

Jeff, there's one thing that I know about you, and I think the world might know about you, and that's that you love Star Wars.

And I can see in your background, you've got a bunch of photos

of Star Wars characters.

And I know there's a bunch of stories there with each of those photos.

But I wanted to ask you out the gate: what's your favorite Star Wars character?

Oh, I didn't expect that.

Oh, I didn't expect that.

The hard questions start now.

Possibly Leah.

Possibly Princess Leia.

That's a common answer.

I think that's a good one.

Everything, everything about that character.

Feisty, gutsy,

yeah, sort of.

Yeah, there's a lot, a lot to unpack there.

And look, there's lots of characters that I like, but

the Boba Vette one, possibly.

But yeah, I think Leah, I would just go with Leah.

I think she's

so magnetic on that screen.

She's quite a creature.

Yep.

Yeah.

Now, fantastic acting, but also just the character development, the writing.

I'm obsessed with Joseph Campbell, and I know that he had like a huge influence on George Lucas with that storyline.

So, like, all around, I think Star Wars is very interesting and amazing.

And like, the cultural phenomena that it developed afterwards, very interesting as well.

Um, but thank you for answering that very difficult question.

Well, I want, yeah, so I'm curious, um, and I'm sure you're, we just had a great conversation about like a client that, you know, picked you up at the airport or didn't pick you up at the airport, but sent a taxi driver who picked you up at the airport in a costume.

Tell me a little bit more about that.

So it was actually, it was this time last week.

So exactly a week ago, I got the 6 p.m.

flight from Newcastle.

I live in the northeast of England.

And it's only about an hour's flight to Southampton, right on the south coast.

And my client, P ⁇ O Cruisers, big, big sort of global brand,

I've worked, I'm friends with the customer service director there and uh he brought me in because i've worked with them previously under their hospitality roles

and he brought me in for the team he said we've got a conference so we'll pick you come to come down the night before uh would you like picked up at the airport i said oh that would be great so they booked a taxi but they've obviously called the taxi firm and said

these are some of jeff's likes the text

The taxi driver, a guy called Stefan.

So I walk out.

I've got my case.

I walk out of

into the sort of foyer of the, it's only a small airport.

And there is Stefan in full Jedi robes.

And you've got, you've got, you've got all the passengers walking out going, what's going on here?

And I'm thinking,

I think this is for me.

And it was brilliant.

So we had a great conversation.

We had a good laugh.

It was wonderful.

But this is a taxi firm that said, what can we do?

So you've got the client thinking, how do we make a great experience with Jeff?

I mean, they're my client, but they want to treat me like

I love that so much.

Oh my gosh.

And these are moments in which I will talk about, I will photograph.

Oh, there's thousands of photographs on here.

I will write about.

Just earlier today, I put a piece on this on LinkedIn, on Facebook.

So now the whole world is exposed to this taxi firm and P ⁇ O cruisers.

for something that they did.

And this is the wonderful world that we live in nowadays.

You receive a great piece of service.

It It used to be you tell three people.

It's 300,000 people in seconds.

So I love,

personally, as a speaker, as an author, I love to put people on a pedestal and say,

this is how it should be done.

You know, and often it can cost nothing, but mean the world to the person receiving it.

So it's just that little bit of thought, that little idea, and it just adds to that experience.

You know, a taxi taxi arriving on time, being courteous, clean, that's good service.

But we can elevate it to what I call a celebrity service, which we'll talk about in due course.

Of course, of course.

And for anyone who's not following you on LinkedIn, I highly encourage you to go add Jeff on LinkedIn and follow him because his feed is basically just like stories on stories on stories of great examples of great customer service.

So if you're looking for more ways to like be creative or new ideas, his feed is just full of them.

Definitely go check it out.

But speaking of celebrity service, which I'm glad you brought it up,

there was one thing that you've shared before that quote unquote five-star service is outdated.

Tell me more about that and why you feel that way.

I'm just picturing your viewers and listeners going, what?

What?

We're striving for five stars.

Well, no, no, literally our, so we're working on a new podcast cover for this show.

And literally our podcast cover has the five stars on it.

So I'm like, oh, no, do we need to burn that?

Do you know what, Lacey?

This is the issue I have, right?

Five-star, a five-star hotel is based on facilities and not experience.

It's based on what that hotel has.

Now, you would expect a five-star service, you know, people being very attentive, kind, you know, the things that they would do.

And hopefully that's the case.

But I've always had this thing about five-star,

it's just a number, and numbers are infinite.

And if somebody was to set up a five-star business next to me, my business would be called six-star

because of that six-star of experience and service.

And that's never mentioned when people it's five.

Oh, it's five-star.

It's like, no, no, numbers are infinite.

Now, that's the one thing I say should be outlawed.

There are another two,

and I'll give you these.

Okay, are you ready for this?

Um, and

for the last

four decades, maybe it's five, but let's just go for four.

Last four decades,

there's been nothing new in the world of customer service.

We, every speaker, trainer, book manual will tell you the same, mainly two things.

Yes, we've got five-star, but two things.

And the first is this: they will tell you, in order for you to be number one in your field, number one in your sector for service and experience, the number one thing is you've got to go the extra mile.

Go the extra.

Now, that sounds good.

I understand it, but that's the first one.

The second one, let's see if you know this one.

You must always exceed expectations.

Now, let's go to your viewers and listeners on this pod right now.

So, right now, if they were to go to their team tomorrow, gather them up and say, Just heard this guy from the UK has been speaking about service and he's got some great ideas.

And they say, Oh, what has he told you?

And he said, Well, come in, close the door.

Come here, come here.

From today,

we're going to go the extra mile.

And your team are going to look at you and go, right, we've heard this before.

And how are we going to do that?

And you're going to say, oh, Jeff said we're going to exceed.

Lacey, there's been nothing new in the world of service.

All of your competitors right now are talking

in a boardroom, in a conference venue.

We're talking about going the extra mile.

Exceed expectations.

Let's create a five-star.

There's nothing new in the world of customer service.

But I think I found something.

The thing that I've been speaking about and sharing, you know, for

23 years now

around the world into, and it's about inspiring the team.

That's the key to this.

We all know what great service looks like, or we should, and greater service looks like.

But how do you inspire your team to go way beyond that extra mile?

and

this is where celebrity service was born there 23 years ago now okay take me back to that a little bit more so 23 years ago yes if i was talking to you then what was top of mind for you that kind of like birds this idea of celebrity service okay

here is how the birth of celebrity service happened.

Now, I didn't sit in a darkened room to think, oh, I need to think of something different in the marketplace.

It actually happened live on stage.

It happened in an audience.

So I walked, there were 300 people in the audience, entrepreneurs,

small, medium enterprises.

And I walked on stage

and I changed my opening line,

which I don't do.

It's a big risk to take, but you know, and I changed it.

That's huge.

That's like really outrageous to do on the spot.

Wow.

So I walked on.

Oh, I'll just change it up a bit.

So I walked on and and I said, do you treat everybody the same?

And everybody looked at me and said, and I said, do you treat everybody with the same high level of service, no matter what day of the week, no matter who they are, no matter how you're feeling?

Does everybody receive the same amount of service levels from you?

And around half of the room nodded.

Yeah, yeah.

Apart from one woman and she was sat right at the front.

She was an entrepreneur.

She was sat right at the front and she shouted out.

And I was like, and she went, absolutely, Jeff.

And she shouted out.

And the whole audience were like, oh my God, she shouted out.

And you never get people shouting out.

And she went, absolutely, Jeff.

And Lacey, I was like, I was like, oh, what do I do here?

And I turned to her and I said, okay.

And I opened up this can of worms because I knew as soon as I got into a conversation, my whole track and thread had gone.

Everything is off.

Yeah.

And I just thought, just go for it.

And I said, okay, right.

Brilliant.

You've got a great service.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I said, okay, tell me, tell the audience,

what is it you do?

What sort of business have you got?

She said, I've got a boutique store here in the town.

And this was in the northwest of England in Cumbria.

And I said, okay.

And I said, so what is it you do?

She said, well, we design and handmake children's toys, homeware, and kitchenware out of wood, metal, and stone.

She said, the products are rather exclusive, quite expensive.

And I said, oh, wonderful, brilliant.

I said, come on then, give me examples of this wonderful service that you provide, because obviously you're very passionate.

And of course, all the audiences are like, oh my God, where's this going?

And she said, it's not all about sales.

If we can get the service right, the sales will follow.

I said, give me some examples.

She said, well, we've got...

two big red leather couches, settees at the front.

We take away some of the sales area.

People can come in, have a look at the products, sit down and relax.

And I was like, fantastic.

Anything else?

She says, yeah, we serve tea and coffee.

In a retail environment?

Wow.

In a retail, that doesn't happen.

I said, oh, how much is.

It's very unique.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I said, how much is the tea or coffee?

And she said, oh, it's free.

And we had 299 people pick up the pens and

free tea and coffee.

Right.

It was a game changer.

And

out of nowhere, and I mean nowhere, this question popped into my head, which has never left in 23 years.

And

I turned to her and I said,

but what happens if a celebrity were to come into your business tomorrow?

And she said, like who?

I said, I don't know.

I said,

I said, who do you fancy?

And she went, ooh, George and Brad.

Okay.

And I said, okay, picture the scene.

I said, George Clooney's making a movie here in the Lake District.

And I said, he flies home in a couple of days' time, but he's heard all about your wonderful products

and the service that you provide.

So he picks up the phone this afternoon.

He says, sir, hi, it's George Clooney.

I'm a sexy Hollywood god.

I've heard all about your wonderful store and your wonderful products.

I'm flying home tomorrow.

I would love to come to your store and buy from you, but I've got two problems.

The first is the paparazzi.

They've been following me around for six months.

I'm

tired.

And the second problem is a nice problem, but fans, you know, they're coming over, they want autographs and photographs.

And he said, I'm tired.

So what I'd like to do is come to your store, but would you close it just for me while I have a look around?

And the whole audience is still involved in this conversation.

And I said, would you close the store for George?

She went, yes, I would.

I said, well, I'm speaking here today.

I've got another event tomorrow.

If I come to your store tomorrow, would you close it for me?

And she shook her head ever so slightly.

And I kid you not, the entire 299 people turned that day in the room because they all went,

and she said,

I said, what's the matter?

She said,

I would treat people differently.

Yeah.

I said, Of course you would.

Of course, you would.

And I said, Everybody would.

I said, You would.

I would.

Everybody here, if somebody like that was to come into your business, what would you say?

What would you do?

How would you react?

How would you, what would be the difference in service levels?

If somebody asks, if somebody like George Clooney, Angelina Jolie,

Tom Cruise were to ask for a proposal from you, how long does it take?

What words do you choose on the email when you respond to them?

If you respond to them, you might even hand deliver it.

What would be the difference in service that you'll give them compared to a normal customer?

And I turned to her and I said,

and this is the final question of the day.

I said,

what else would you do for George tomorrow?

And

people started to laugh.

And I said, please keep it clean.

She said,

and

she came up with six ideas in 30 seconds.

She said them so quickly, I can't remember two of them, but I do remember four.

First thing she said, oh, I'll get my hair done.

I said, okay.

She said, I'll wear my best dress.

I said, right.

Now look what just happened.

Somebody like that was to come to your business, your appearance changes.

You go from there to there.

She said, we have a beautiful oak floor in the studio.

It's needed varnishing for the last six months.

I would varnish it tonight.

Look at what just happened to the appearance of your business.

And the last thing she said that I remember that day, she said, I'll get rid of the tea and coffee.

And everybody's like, no, you can't get rid of the tea and coffee.

It's a great idea.

She said, no, no, no.

I would bring in the proper coffee.

She was serving good coffee, but she found a way to improve that.

She found a way to improve her business.

She found a way to improve herself.

And when I talk about this, that's a story I never tell on stage anymore.

I used to do it a lot, but it's very rare that I do it.

But I thought, this is good for this pod.

Later that day, I got in the car and I'm driving back home after this conference.

And it really hit me.

I got into a conversation with a stranger in the room.

I asked her if a celebrity were to walk in,

what would be the difference?

And she came up with six ideas in 30 seconds.

And by the time I got back home, I thought...

That one question has changed everything in that person's mind who thought she was delivering a high level of service.

And that was the birth of celebrity service right now.

And this is the question I ask, it's a different question I ask now, but it's a question I ask, and I'll ask everybody on the pod: on the scale of one to ten,

if one is abysmal, terrible, awful,

but ten is incredible, stunning, amazing,

what number would you give yourself and be honest, right now for the loves of service and experience, you're giving your colleagues, your clients, your passengers, your members, your guests.

What number would it be?

And Lacey, I've spoken in 54 countries, 54 different countries now,

all brands, all sizes, from entrepreneurs, blue chip, retail, hospitality, you name it, every sector.

The global audience research rate for me is the vast majority of the world will say seven and eight.

And what this in is, Jeff, we're pretty good, but there's always room for improvement.

We're getting a passing grade.

Yes.

But that's it.

It's good.

If you're eight out of ten, hey, thumbs up.

Life is too short.

If you're a seven, you're saying to me, Jeff, we're pretty good, but there's always room for improvement.

Where are you going to get that improvement from?

It's not going the extra mile.

It's not creating five-star.

It is certainly not exceeding expectations.

In order to inspire your team, your staff,

your colleagues,

they want something new, something fresh, something different.

So, therefore, if a celebrity were to become your next colleague, your next client,

what would you say?

What would you do?

How would you react?

What would be the difference?

And I've talked about this seven and eight being that level.

But if Angelina,

if Tom Hardy were to walk in, that's your service level there.

And it's called the gap.

The gap in your service you don't realize exists.

So, celebrity was born.

That is the philosophy.

That is the question.

But it's also a nine-stage program that I have.

So, all of my keynote stories, all of my ideas, all my techniques fill that gap.

And there's nine stages.

So, you're outlining the nine stages and you're saying they correlate to the word celebrity, right?

Is that what we're diving into right here?

Yes.

Okay, let's go.

I'll go because this is a five-hour podcast, ladies and gentlemen.

Here we go.

So, consistency, excitement,

love,

engagement, bravado, response, independence, thank you, and you and your team.

So, these nine components can completely redesign and redefine your levels of service experience.

And that is it.

In a nutshell, that is celebrity service.

And what I do at conferences and events, when I work with teams, I have over

600 stories now.

Stories, ideas.

Stefan, the taxi driver, will be the next one that I'll add to the list.

I love it.

Being on stage and traveling like I do is a wonderful experience in itself.

But the weeks and months and years later, when I start hearing that organizations, teams have got a greater net promoter score, have just gone and won an award because of celebrity service,

I always think back to that conversation that I had by accident 23 years ago.

So it's pretty cool.

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Yeah, I love how it's coming full circle for you.

There's so many moments in our lives that are pivotal moments that we have this grand realization that's going to change the scope of everything.

Like for the next 23 years, this is what you're working on.

This is what you're offering.

This is what you're teaching.

And it all came from this one question moment, this one person spontaneity and you being playful and

spontaneous back with her, you know, on stage.

Yes.

Like, could you imagine if you had shushed your brain and said, no, go back into your keynote speech?

Like, where would we be?

We wouldn't be having this conversation, probably.

It's really funny, isn't it?

Everything we've done.

i i do i'm not spiritual i'm not religious but i i have this

it's everything that we've done every decision that we've made and and along the way has brought us to this podcast i i yep you know it's brought us sat where we are having a tooth out and and and meeting you know a jedi taxi jedi masters in the yeah in the airport yeah and everything is is um i i just find that fascinating um and the the routes and the paths that we take

and there's so many you know if i didn't ask that question, if I didn't go through that door, if I didn't, if I didn't answer that call, you know, your life could be completely different.

I find that really fascinating.

I really do.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love that.

Well, I want to get a little bit more into like the logistics and the application of celebrity service because you've outlined what it is, the origin story of it.

You know, kind of that you've teased a little bit at the impact it can have in organizations.

But like if I'm, if I'm listening here and I'm like, Jeff, I'm bought in.

I'm I'm interested, I'm intrigued, I want to apply this to my business, what do I do?

I have a five-word strategy.

I have a five-word strategy for everybody.

Very, very simple.

You don't need a chapter and verse, big encyclopedia, five-word strategy to deliver and maintain the momentum of a greater service experience.

I was asked.

I've been asked this a few times this year, but I was asked on a panel just a couple of weeks ago.

The host came to me.

I didn't know the question was coming.

Now, I never do.

And I said,

You're very, you're great.

I got an idea where the question is going to go, but I hadn't a clue on this night.

I said, Jeff, ask, and there was, again, there was a few hundred people in the audience.

What's the number one mistake that businesses make when it comes to customer service experience?

And what's the number one thing?

I was, oh, my word.

Where do we go?

And of course, we could go off any direction.

And I said, I've got one word for you.

And that word is time.

And the audience kind of looked, they said, what do you mean, time?

I said, it's the biggest mistake businesses make.

You know how important a great customer experience service is to your customers, to your clients.

And yet, how much time do you dedicate to your team?

And the audience were like, what do you mean?

I said, well, when was your last leadership meeting?

Oh, Thursday.

When's your next sales meeting?

Oh, it's always Tuesday, nine o'clock.

When's your next customer service meeting

and lacy was like tumbleweed going across the audience

never

um

we put it on any other business jeff you know at the end of the agenda at the end of yeah i know you do that's how much

you know it's important but you don't dedicate time so first thing for everybody on the pod and the first word of the five-word strategy you've got to donate and dedicate some time and that oh how long how long jeff look 10 minutes a a week is more than what you're doing right now.

So you dedicate 10 minutes a week, 15 minutes a month.

I don't care what it is, but dedicate time and do not deviate from that weekly or fortnightly slot.

Get your team together, dedicate time, and this is when we start.

The second word in the strategy is space.

We need to create a space.

Now, this isn't just a case of, oh, well, we'll book a room out and we've done that.

What's the third one, Jeff?

No.

Space is create.

And you've seen I've got sort of inspirational stuff on my wall, the Star Wars stuff and all the rest of it.

Absolutely.

But I've also got another wall over there, which is full of ideas.

Okay.

It's on a big whiteboard.

And also, my ideas are captured on my phone,

so on my PC and on my laptop.

You've got to create an inspirational

visual reminder of what great service experience looks like.

So you might have been in a restaurant last night.

You went, oh, that person did this.

It was really good.

They wrote this on them.

How fantastic is that?

They did this.

They did that.

Brilliant.

Do you bring that into your business and discuss that with your team?

Because we want to see ideas.

One of the biggest mistakes we have is we come across great service and

we don't document it.

So the next time you receive a great experience, whether through an email, virtual, through your phone, face-to-face, at an exhibition, log it, capture it, take a photograph of it, write it down, stick it on the wall.

Create a celebrity service wall of what Great Amazing looks like.

Encourage your team to do the same.

Oh, I saw this.

I've just received this.

How fantastic is that?

Put it on the wall as a visual reminder because if we don't see it, we can't think about it.

And I want to add to that too.

What I find really interesting about that is you can get inspiration from other industries.

I think a lot of times we're just looking at,

what's my competitor doing?

But if you can take something from this hotel, this, I don't know, this restaurant, my dental experience, like if there's little things here and there that are coming together, you can weave a way more interesting experience for your customers than you would have if you just looked at what the competitor was doing.

Absolutely.

Even if you think of your, think of your website.

Think of your website.

I never look at another speaker's website for ideas.

Why?

Because if I take some of their ideas, it's just a regurgitated somebody else's brand.

But I will look at car manufacturers.

I'll look at alcoholic drinks.

I will look at different things to think, whoa, and get inspiration from that, from that direction.

So, you know, absolutely right.

So, time,

space, a visual reminder.

The third one is ideas.

And this is a big one.

I normally do this live in a room, but I don't mind sharing this with you now on the pod for everybody that's listening.

Okay, so

imagine,

oh, Jeff, I've got some time, I've got some space.

We're going to get the team.

And say your team's 10 people, 100 people, doesn't matter how many it is.

And even if you're a solopreneur,

get your family, get your friends, get them together.

But get yourself a team together.

How do you generate fresh, creative, innovative ideas?

You create a competition.

So let's say for argument's sake, you've got 50 members of staff.

I'm not great at maths, so 50 is good for me.

50, okay?

You get them into teams of 10.

So you've got five tables in a room in your in in your warehouse in your office and this is what i do in my interactive workshops and master classes

i say to everybody on the table you are now a team

okay you know but you're now in competition with the other tables

and we want to find the most creative innovative out of this world ideas in creating a service experience that will have you talked about for decades to come.

So I'm going to, to.

So, what I do is I give everybody in the room the same challenge at the same time.

Okay.

So, I say, How would you create a great experience based on what I've just said?

Now, this could be from a hotel, it could be from Uber, it could be from a restaurant.

Ideally, it's about you and your business, whatever that, but you take one touch point.

Not how do we create an overall experience?

Too long, too long.

When a client emails us,

what should our response look like?

Say, for an example, right, you're all going to work together.

The most creative answers will win a prize.

Candy, chocolates, liquor, a day off, pizzas.

I don't care what it is, but there's got to be some sort of prize.

This is called the 120 challenge.

And when I ask audiences, do you know what the 120 stands for?

It's seconds.

You only have two minutes to come up with an incredible idea.

Now, half of the room, Lacey, at this stage, go, oh,

two minutes, we haven't got time to do this.

The other half have already picked up a pen and they've already started.

Yep.

Imagine the room, five tables of ten, your team, your organization.

When a client emails us, how do we respond?

What could that look like compared to what we're doing now?

I want you to go wild.

I want you to go crazy.

I want you to think

incredible ideas that the world will talk about.

Your two minutes have just started.

Go.

And you can imagine the room all lifts.

Everybody's like, oh, we can do this.

We can do this.

Five, four, three, two, one, pens down.

Who wants to go first?

Chance of winning a prize.

So we go around the tables.

I've done this for 20 years now for the likes of Emirates, McDonald's, IHG Hotels,

some incredible brands all over the world.

And they've adopted Warner Brothers as another one.

And they've adopted this technique to create fresh, innovative ideas in service delivery.

Something I'm extremely proud of.

So we go around the room, they give us all these ideas.

Now,

maybe we've got a list of 20 ideas.

Five of those might be illegal.

Don't I was going to say, some of these would be pretty outrageous.

Yeah, don't do them.

Okay, don't do them.

Jeff said, don't do them.

I'm insured, but not that much.

There might be three or four ideas that will cost a lot of money, and you think, ooh,

maybe he's next year.

Maybe we'll do that next year.

There may be four or five ideas that

you think, ah, that's okay.

Hardly a game changer, but it's okay.

But I can guarantee you this.

There will be three or four ideas in that list that are absolute gems.

Oh,

that would be that easy to do.

That would be really cheap.

Why are you not doing this already?

And taking those three or four ideas,

and this comes to point number four,

which is action.

So we've got time, space, ideas.

Fourth one is action.

Uh-huh.

Action just one.

Action just one of those ideas.

Because if you say, oh, we've got 12 ideas, brilliant, wow, wonderful.

If you try 12 at once, it's too much.

You'll drop the ball.

It's, we did four well, and oh, we forgot to do that.

And maybe we could have done that better.

Look, we're all busy people.

Take one,

build it into your service experience, and you start to build the gap.

You don't just go, bang, we've done it.

You start to grow it.

And after weeks and months, it becomes part of your culture.

It's, oh, we've always done this.

Six months' time, oh, yeah.

And that is how you generate fresh creative ideas, but you action just the one.

And the fifth word in the five-word celebrity service strategy is recognition.

Who was the person that came up with the idea?

Who were the team?

And I'm not just talking about, you know, pizzas and but how do you recognize?

And not just in that two-minute challenge, but continually, how do you recognize that person for their efforts in service, design, experience, and delivery?

Because don't let it go unnoticed.

Don't wait another 11 and a half months for your next conference where you'll do some awards at the end of the night when everybody's drunk.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Or the six-month performance review just with them by themselves, and no one else is seeing or hearing this.

That's you've made a great point there, Lizzie.

A brilliant point.

Recognize, but then potentially show the world.

Actually, show the world.

So, yeah, that's a five-word strategy.

I can go a lot deeper into it, but for the sake of the pod, I just wanted to introduce it.

But that two-minute challenge,

there's a page on my website called Results.

It's something I'm extremely proud of.

It's the most important page on my website, if I'm honest with you.

And it's full of the companies, the businesses, the brands, the teams that have embraced the 120 challenge in celebrity service, and they've gone on to win.

And

it's pretty cool.

For those listening, on screen, we're going to have Jeff's results page.

We'll scroll through it so you can get a little sneak preview of all that.

Is there a favorite result that you'd like to share, Jeff?

Like a story or just from one of those brands that you mentioned?

I mean, you've worked with some amazing companies.

Do you know what?

I'm going to give you something that's on the website that's actually just come in over the last week.

I would love that.

Yeah.

I've just, and

so I've just finished a program of celebrity service for Avon, Avon Cosmetics.

You know,

phenomenal brand, phenomenal.

So I've done two of their conferences and we've also done three virtual

sort of masterclasses with all of the Avon advisors all over the UK.

And I set them challenges every week.

I share stories, but I set them challenges.

And, you know, the entrepreneurial, they're working by themselves, but they're within a team.

And the results, I'm in a private Facebook group with them all as well over the past three months.

It's been people actually saying I was skeptical.

I didn't want to do it.

What should I do, you know, celebrity?

But I decided to

increase my packaging.

I decided to put a little something in with the packaging.

I decided to, you know, for Easter, I'll put a little Easter egg in there.

For, you know, for Mother's Day, I did this.

I wrote a poem on International Women's Day and put it in every one of my orders.

And this has just exploded in the UK.

I've got this baton called Celebrity Service.

I pass it to you.

It's up to you if you want to run with it.

But so, so many people from the Avon UK community have gone on to record results, profits.

The biggest one that I don't think I can put a price on, the one I'm possibly most proud of of late,

People have got confidence.

Some people have, you know, lost their way with the brand, or they were just ticking along.

And just to give that injection of inspiration and enthusiasm, people have got their confidence, they're trying things, they're creating videos, they're sending videos to their team or their customers, they're leaving voice notes if they're not too

au fair with video.

But

one of the things we did at the beginning was

within marketing, within service, time just passes you by.

And I said, So the first thing you must get is a huge 2025 wall planner.

You know, the huge ones that you get in offices.

And I said, You can put that somewhere in your home, somewhere.

And I said, You have some incredible key dates coming up this year in which you can sprinkle some celebrity service magic.

So you can imagine International Women's Day was one, Mother's Day was another.

People's birthdays, we've got Easter, we've got Christmas.

And

the individuals have gone and they've plotted the next 12 months.

And they're already focused on what they could do.

And when you see results come in of extra orders, profit, profit doesn't excite me, never has.

It's lovely.

We all need it.

But that boost of confidence that a lot of the entrepreneurs have gained is really cool.

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It's the approval chains, the handoffs, the who owns what debate.

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Well, so, and in that story, too, it's not just, so marketing is typically does this, right?

We know Mother's Day is coming up.

I'm going to have some sort of campaign that goes and targets mothers or kids.

So that way they buy this product for their moms, right?

But like you're kind of flipping it and saying, but you can do this too for service.

Like you can also provide something that when it's delivered is making me feel special.

So it's not just an opportunity for more sales.

It's an opportunity to really make people feel like they got that celebrity service moment.

Yeah, absolutely.

You know, a little card that said, you know, you inspire me.

You know, it's International Women's Day.

I want to sort of see how brilliant, you know, whatever.

Those personal words mean the world to everybody.

We live in a tech world where we download things, where we scan things, and we try to get Wi-Fi to access things.

And yet, you can count on one hand, Lacey, the amount of times somebody's wrote to you in the last year.

Absolutely.

Yep.

So

it's one of my big bears of service and design, if I'm honest with you.

I don't mind sharing it.

We're always trying to find the new shiny toy,

the thing that will press the button, that will make it easy.

Yeah, and that easy button means we don't have to put much effort in, and yet, some of the greatest service experiences lie in our past.

But guess what?

Our competition, they've moved on, they're trying to find the easy way out.

And when I talk about celebrity service,

If your next client was Denzel Washington, if your next client was Tom Hardy, if your next client was Margot Robbie,

you would take the time.

And that's the difference.

It's quality over quantity, always.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

Well, kind of speaking into that a little bit more about future trends,

I am curious your opinions and thoughts on what people can expect for the future.

Like what's going to stay the same and what's going to be maybe new that will shake things up.

I'm such a traditionalist at heart.

I can see it now.

One of my biggest stories actually is a story called Elliot's Magic Ticket.

It's on my website, it's on my YouTube channel.

You can have that one.

I saw that one.

Yeah.

Audiences love that one.

It's really powerful.

It's really emotional.

But you know what?

Ticket offices won't be here in 10 years.

You know, it will all, which I get, I get progress, but when profits go before people, that's when I start to worry.

That's my concern.

That is my concern.

That we do replace far too much.

I'm not anti-AI.

I'm not anti-technology.

Here we are on the other side of the world, connecting and delivering.

Absolutely, yeah.

Seriously, I'm not.

But I've always been a long time fan.

You know, when the competition go one way, do you follow them?

Or do you go the other way?

And when everybody's looking for that quicker, cheaper button to press, I will find the pen, the parchment to really have a deeper conversation and a deeper experience with somebody.

But and answer your question,

it's a real silver ball.

You know, what does the future hold?

I just hope that we can keep a still a high degree of personalization

in everything we do.

And I hope that if we do go, you know, as we have done already,

we've done this this a lot.

Chatbots

are good.

They can be so much better.

But can I get to that human faster?

Because I don't know about you, Lacey, but you know, when people say, oh,

if this hasn't been helpful, please go to the website for frequently asked questions.

My question's never on there.

Never.

Literally ever.

Yeah.

And I think that's

in terms of service design, what the future future should look like.

I don't know how many of these organizations and businesses are actually sitting down around the table with customers.

That's the biggest thing for me.

Actually, with the customers,

what would make it easier for you?

What would put a smile on your face?

Is often a phrase I would use.

What can make you smile?

What can make it easier?

So

AI, I don't think we've even scratched the surface.

You know, we've got the,

you can order your food at McDonald's, you don't have to go to the cashier anymore, you don't have to strike up a relationship.

I get that, um, but at the moment, all we seem to be doing is creating videos with babies on them and uh creating our own little action action videos.

Why is that a thing right now?

I don't understand.

But can you see?

It was only about a month ago, wasn't it?

Everybody was creating these action

Barbie figures, and I'm thinking, oh my word, this is such 2025, isn't it?

In a world of technology where we have infinite possibilities, let's create something that looks like us.

And even the world was saying, I love all this technology, but oh, I wonder what I would like.

And it comes back to the customer, doesn't it?

It comes back to, actually, this is all about me.

And then nobody ever talked about it.

By the way, I didn't do it.

Did you do one?

I did not do one.

No, I was like, it feels like too much effort to have to put this together and then make it look more like me.

So, like, no.

I'm hard enough looking normal.

Never mind.

But

no,

I love the people that did the opposite, where they actually took pictures of themselves with their stuff.

Like, they had someone take a photo of them pretending to be an action figure with all their little like four items that they would have.

I thought that was cool.

Cause I was like, okay, counter to using GPT to do that.

That's more authentic.

It's, do you know what?

And it's a a phrase I've used.

I don't mind sharing it to you now.

People have asked my opinions on AI, and I'm not anti-it at all, but

all I will say is this:

AI needs to be efficient.

But HI, human, you know, HI needs to be exquisite.

And

if we can have the balance of both.

So if I can order that tax,

you see, if I order that taxi

on an app and I don't phone up, that experience doesn't happen.

I just think we're going to lose opportunities.

We're going to gain some, we're going to lose a lot.

We've got to be careful because, funnily enough,

just very quickly, actually, on the 120 challenge, I did this at a conference in Wales,

in the UK, not so long ago.

And when I did the two-minute challenge, one of the teams actually put it on ChatGBT, the challenge.

Two of the tables.

Were any of the ideas good?

It was all right, but do you know what it is?

It's computer generators.

Like, come on.

Yeah.

For years, we have these wonderful ideas.

We corks them out.

We coax them out.

But

yeah, it's

an interesting thing.

So, my problem with that isn't just like, I think it's, I think GPT is great for brainstorming whenever you have a core idea to help get you to this point of like, oh, this is how I might present it.

Yes.

But

I think it detaches you as an individual from the outcome.

Because then if that idea doesn't work, then you're like, well, it wasn't my idea to begin with.

And I think it takes a passion and the like fear, fierceness that I really want to do this out of that, out of that like project or the mission that you have, whatever it is you're working on.

You know, and I don't know the percentages.

Some people will say, this is great.

I'm not very creative.

I'm not very innovative.

I put this in wonderful.

I get it.

I think some industries would do quite well from it.

Personally, and I'm from a creative industry, you in terms of speaking, in terms of my roles and things that I've done over the years, we're dumbing down our creativity.

Yeah, I mean, I fall in the middle here.

I'm mixed on that because I think it can be a tool that you can use just like anything, or you can over-rely on it and have all your marketing copy written on it without doing any.

actual sitting and thinking about what your customer might like or what the experience should be.

So I think, I think it's both.

Like you've got to balance the time, but you also have to understand what the tools can do and if they can make you more efficient.

I am for that if it means means you get to have that HI, the human intelligence experience be stronger.

And that's what I think I've been most intrigued by in the last like couple of conversations I've had is how people are using these AI tools to augment the employees.

So that way they can actually focus more on that human experience.

Like if I'm not having to input data over and over and over again and I don't have to do this reporting over and over and over again and AI can do that for me so I can actually sit and do the 120 second challenge, then I'm for that.

So, there's your efficiency.

There's your efficiency.

Taking out those mundane, everyday

lots of people can do the same type of thing.

The mundane, the efficiency.

I get that.

But those pockets of inspiration, those pockets of opportunities in every touch point,

get your team together.

You know what?

If

you were to take an idea from

chat GBT, if you were to recognize ChatGPT for their great ideas, what does does that do to your team?

You know, we live, I've lived in a world now for the last five years where everybody, so many clients have said to me, Jeff, it is so hard to attract great talent.

Yeah.

And it's harder to keep greater talent.

And if we were to let our

creativity, teamwork, collaboration, if we were to outsource that,

what does that do for your team?

You know, I think

there's a longer tail here and not just a quick fix of an idea that will help us in the short term.

I think there's a longer,

if we rely on this too much,

we're going to lose that collaboration and recognition with the team.

That's my own personal thoughts.

Whether I'm right or wrong, we'll never know.

We'll have this conversation in 10 years.

We can have this conversation, yeah, in five years, 10 years, and we'll be like, you, Jeff, you were wrong.

And we'll both be computer animated.

That's what we'll do.

Yeah.

It won't even be, yeah, it won't be us.

It'll just be our GPTs talking to each other.

I always make that joke because I think it's funny.

Like, we're kind of headed to that direction for sure.

It'll be like little Jedi Jeff talking to me.

Could you imagine?

I do have a question.

Jeff, I can really hear and see your passion.

And so it's making me want to ask you, was there a moment you had either with a local business or a big brand as a child or a young adult that wowed you, that made you feel very seen, very understood, and in even a low budget or low tech, simple way?

I remember a tea shop that I went to with my babysitter often after school.

And that was the first time I saw people working and they remembered me and they remembered my order.

So that's how like it was, but it made me, I was like, oh, there's people behind this brand, behind this business that care.

So it really opened my eyes: like, oh, okay.

Like, it's not a 2D experience.

No, no, that's that's that.

No, that's great.

Um,

oh, my word, that's a really good question.

Um, do you know what?

I'll have six answers as soon as we press stop.

Um, but this, there's one that springs to mind.

Um, it's my football team, I uh, soccer, as you would say, but my football team is Sunderland.

And you might have seen them on Netflix.

It's called Sunderland Till I Die.

Uh, that's the stadium is a mile from our house.

And I had numerous broken bones

when I was in my early teens.

And I broke my heel.

I broke my collarbone.

It was all three separate accidents and broke my wrist.

Oh my gosh.

It was weird.

But anyhow,

and I went along to

the

club.

My parents took me down to the club.

And the team came out and they all signed my cast.

They all signed my cast, which was really cool.

I mean, I didn't want the cast to come off, but it had to come off eventually.

But

you go into school the next day, and everybody's like,

wow, you know, you know, so just things like that.

Again,

you come back to personalization.

They were celebrities of mine, I suppose.

But that was a really cool thing because

the club

didn't have to do that.

You know, they must get numerous,

so many,

so many requests for donations and, and time.

And, uh, you know, they've got their professional outfit, they've got a job to do.

So that's, that's a big one that sort of sticks in my mind.

Cost nothing

to them, but meant the world to me.

And that's, that's a big, a big line that I use a lot.

You know, what does it cost?

Nothing, but it means the world to somebody receiving it.

That was beautiful.

I'm so glad that you had a chance to shout them out.

We'll be sure to shout them out over socials too.

That's so sweet.

And it goes back to your earlier point about time.

Like, where are you putting your time?

It's surprisingly simple.

And I like that.

Thank you.

Thank you.

It is an observation I've made over the years.

Customer experience, customer service is put on any other business on an agenda.

And yet we all know how important it is.

That has to be separated from the world of the norm.

It deserves more respect than what it currently is receiving.

Well, and I I think you've shared this.

I saw it on your LinkedIn recently, and I believe it's from your book, that great customer experience moments are the best marketing material.

So it all comes full circle, right?

Like if we have these great customer experiences that we can highlight and share, it actually makes the job of the marketing team, the job of the sales team so much easier.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Yeah,

it's wonderful that you've read that, actually.

It's a lovely little phrase.

I've had it for years now, but it's yet, your greatest marketing tomorrow is the service that you deliver today.

Is there a recent memory you have, like in the past maybe year, with a business that's really impressed you?

You know, whether it might be going to a hotel or a restaurant or whatever it could be that really made you feel seen as a grown-up.

I work a lot with IHG hotels.

I work a lot with

the team.

And I was very much part of the launch of the Vorcor brand.

It's a lovely premium brand.

They're all over the world now.

They're growing every day.

It's phenomenal.

And there's one thing that they do.

Now,

I'll go, I've got not one of their competitors, but another brand.

If you go to a Double Tree Hilton

and you check in, what do they give you?

So they give you a cookie.

I didn't know that.

It's this warm cookie in a bag.

It's warm?

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh.

They've got like a little oven.

I'm hungry.

It's lunchtime here, Jeff.

So that's great.

And I've always thought it was a really good touch.

You know, it costs next to nothing, but even if you don't want it, it's warm.

You can smell the cookie.

It smells lovely.

Anyhow,

Vocal have gone just that one step, in my opinion, beyond what the likes of the competition do.

So when you go to a Vocal hotel, and I was at one last week in Southampton on the South Coast.

So I'm on the South Coast.

I can literally see the sea and the cruise liners are in the harbour.

So I check in, oh, welcome, and here's your gift.

So, you know, both hands, and it's a tiny little wrapping, and the wrapping is

recyclable, or

it deteriorates.

It's good for the environment.

But inside,

there was a chocolate, seashell-shaped chocolate, but it was made out of sea salt.

You go into any vocal hotel in the world, so Singapore, in Germany, in Paris, anywhere in the world, and the little treat that they give you, and it's it at check-in will be something to do with the area.

It's not just

unique, depending on where you are.

Yes, yeah, I love that.

So, there's a one in there's there's two hotels at Voco, Voco is V-O-C-O.

It's all lowercase.

Beautiful.

I love that.

I love the brand.

And I work with the team a lot.

If you go to the, there's two hotels in Oxford and one of them's got I think there's a honeycomb there's a honeycomb nearby there's sort of bees and all the rest of it and they've got this honeycomb suite

so

they tend to have either herb gardens or fruit or whatever itever it may be in that even on site that the chefs will use to make the gifts so it's a it's a welcome to their area it's it's it's really and i just think that's a lovely thing to do it's um it's different it takes a lot of doing, it takes a lot of effort,

but there's that pride in your area of work.

And um, if I was on the other side of that desk and I know I'm going to give somebody a little gift, a little something,

I feel good about it because I know that's going to put a smile on their face.

So that's a that's a personal favorite of mine.

Look, I've I've so many examples.

We can literally sit here all night and talk about ideas and and stories but that that one's a bit of a favorite of mine at the moment that one's great i what i love about it too is it's kind of an easter egg so anyone that likes to go around and travel every time you go into a hotel you're kind of like oh what am i gonna get it's like a little surprise on the surprise because you know you're gonna get a little gift but you don't know what and that's that's super fun yes brilliant yeah awesome all right jeff wolt we've took up plenty of your time you've given us a beautiful masterclass in celebrity service today thank you so much pleasure i do want to give you the opportunity to share a little bit more about where our listeners can find you because if they want to i don't know learn more about celebrity service watch some videos maybe see some keynotes where should they go okay well the the obvious one is the mothership so you can go to jeffraam.com so it's g-e-o-double-f-r-a-double m.com on my website there is on my web there there's videos on there um there is a link to my books but if you want those books for yourself i've written two books you can go to amazon that'll be dead easy and simple for you certainly if you're in north america i've got a YouTube channel.

Again, my name is Jeff Ram.

Just type it in.

I think there's about 80 videos on there.

And there's some key stories of me on stage.

There's some stories I'm in Dallas.

I've got some great examples of some wonderful stories in the US.

Help yourself.

If you want to connect with me, wherever you get your social fix from, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, I don't mind.

If my material stories, ideas can help you, I wish you every success with it.

And

yeah, it's been wonderful to meet you both, to work with you both.

And I hope your listeners can take at least one idea forward to deliver a greater experience.

Well, if they don't, I definitely did.

So at least I got something.

Thank you so much, Jeff.