Ebon Moss-Bachrach Takes Us Inside 'The Bear' Kitchen

Support for this podcast and the following message come from Sierra Nevada Brewing Company, where pure ingredients and sustainable brewing meet a legacy of craft.

Share one with a friend today and taste for yourself.

Sierra Nevada, taste what matters.

Please drink responsibly.

This is Fresh Air.

I'm Tanya Mosley, and our guest today is Eben Moss Bachrach.

He's won two consecutive Emmy Awards for playing the role of Richie in the FX series The Bear.

The show, which has won 21 Emmys altogether, returns this week for its fourth season.

Moss Bachrach spoke to Fresh Airs and Marie Baldonado.

When we first meet the character Richie in the bear, he's loud, abrasive, and ornery.

We get the sense that he's like this all the time, but he's also dealing with the recent death of his best friend and business partner Michael and the return of Michael's younger brother Carmy.

Carmy left Chicago to work at the world's best restaurants, and now he wants to transform the neighborhood sandwich shop Richie used to run with Michael.

Here's Eben Moss Backrack as Richie with Jeremy Allen White as Carmy and Iowa Debry as Sydney from the first episode of the series.

Hold on.

Listen, let's just have a conversation for a second.

Whoa, is this?

This is Sydney.

I'm massaging today.

You're wedding today.

No, oh, you chef.

Yeah, oh, you chef.

This fifth, he was using them to make a giant nut.

So play on a Panettonia would have been beautiful if you'd let me finish the play Richie Jarimovich pleasure to meet you sweetheart.

Don't say sweethearts.

I mean nothing by it Sydney saying sweethearts just part of our Italian heritage

Don't be rude and start doing a million things like a smartphone I got all kinds of receipts from my divorce lawyer backing up because all the time I'm spent trying to put your family back together because you're too much of a to come home.

The guys are texting me.

You're telling them I'm gonna do all sorts of weird backwards.

Don't do that, Carmen.

Don't go messing with our heads and ordering different mayonnaise and hiring new bras without talking to me first.

This is your brother's house, okay?

Yeah, remember?

I was running it fine without you.

Why didn't you leave it to you then?

As the show goes on, the viewers grow to love Richie, learning all the ways that he's hurting, which include the end of his marriage and his worry about losing a relationship with his young daughter.

Moz Bachrach has won two Emmy Awards for Best Supporting Actor in a Comedy Series for playing Richie.

He played Desi on the TV series Girls and starred in shows including Andor and The Punisher.

He's also appeared in many plays and films over the decades, and next month he co-stars in the next big Marvel film, The Fantastic Four, First Steps.

Eben Moz Bachrach, welcome to fresh air.

Thanks, Thank you.

I know that you're very protective of the characters that you play.

So I want you to, I mean this in the best possible way.

I think that Richie is the character I've done the most dramatic 180 on, maybe ever.

We just heard Richie from the beginning of the series, but as the show goes on, I know I'm not alone when I say that we're rooting for Richie.

I feel that.

In many ways, he's the heart of the show, which is a testament to the writing and to your performance.

What did you know early on about the journey that Richie was going to take?

I knew that this was a man who was suffering, who was finding himself in a world that he didn't really recognize anymore,

who felt under threat, back against the wall, kind of, you know, trying to grab anything that could keep him afloat.

And

somebody in that position,

I think that kind of a part can hold

a lot of volatile, dangerous, spontaneous behaviors.

A lot can be justified by somebody who's fighting for their survival.

And then

as somebody who's at a certain point in my life, I also related to this guy.

I'm just seeing so many things that I loved in my neighborhood, in my city, changing and seeing things, everything becoming a bank.

I really related to him in that way.

I will say that the bear can be a pretty stressful watch.

You know, there's yelling often, adrenaline always, and there's, you know, this anxiety that pulses throughout a lot of the time.

What is it like to film?

Does it feel that pitched as you're doing it?

Does it feel that like high octane?

It's funny for me to think about like a set that would be

like how the how the scenes are.

Like they call cut and then everyone's screaming at each other and putting out the cigarettes that were in the scene and then lighting up cigarettes that they're going to smoke in between takes.

No, I mean, to make something that

a live feeling in a way, I think, you know, it takes an enormous amount of rehearsal between the actors, between the actors in the camera department, in the props department.

Like, we have such a deep and wonderful crew that, you know, it really requires a lot of sensitivity and listening.

I think the people

involved in making the bear listen a lot more than Richie, Sidney, and Carmy.

So it's a very loving, fun,

calm, well-run set.

I want to play a scene from season three of the show.

The restaurant is getting off the ground, but both Richie and Carmy are still battling.

They've just had a huge fight on the first day of service for friends and family, and they really yelled hateful things at each other.

The character Richie even calls Carmy Didi, which is Carmy's mom's name, and calling that may be one of the biggest insults Richie could give because, you know, that mom is pretty, you know, troubled.

Anyway, they're trying to get back on track and have the restaurant be successful, but they have different ideas about how to do that.

So here's the scene.

Hey, Chef Sid, have you seen my iron?

Also, when you have a sec, would you ask Chef Carmen what the do with my tables up for?

Chef Sid, would you please tell Richard that I thought I would set him up for success and arrange his tables in a more efficient pattern.

Is that what you do?

Yes, that's what I did.

It was really funny.

I walked in, and it was so strange.

It looked like the person who had done it previously had never left the city of Chicago.

You can leave the city of Chicago out about it.

Zero flow, no efficiency, so I thought I'd give you a hand.

Chef said, would you tell Chef Carmen that I can give him a f ⁇ hand if he wants to give it away?

He wants to give me a f ⁇ ing hand, he can give me a hand.

I just might suggest that the both of you stop, because I don't like this at all.

Sid, it's fine.

Chef Carmen uses power phrases because he's a baby replicant who's not self-actualized.

Which is maybe why he repeatedly referred to me as a loser.

Richie, I apologize.

No, no, no, it's all good.

I don't need your apology.

I know how you feel now.

Also, I respect your honesty and bravery from inside a locked vault.

You know what?

Matter of fact, Chef Sidney, I don't remember Richard apologizing for all the s ⁇ .

He was literally screaming at me while I was like, I love you.

What?

You know what?

Out there, that's my dojo.

It's rearranged without my approval or consent.

It creates an environment of fear, and fear does not exist in that dojo.

Richard, I added added more two tops because all those four tops were nonsense.

Okay.

I lose the flowers.

Jesus Christ, that was a lot of flowers.

Those flowers are delicate.

I can't apologize and you're screaming.

Am I?

Yeah, yeah, you are.

Oh, yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Is it rich, Richard?

You want to get the out of my face?

You both, shut up,

please.

Sorry, Sid.

It's just textbook sublimation.

You've seen it once, you've seen it a thousand times.

I actually don't know what to do right now.

That's a scene from season three of The Bear with Io Debry, Jeremy Allen White, and Eben Moss backrack.

When a scene is like that with that much screaming, is it written that way, or are you sort of improvising how you approach the arguing?

That scene, to quote

Walter in The Big Lebowski,

eight-year-olds, dude.

That scene was as written.

I mean, you know, at this this point in Richie's life, you know, he's trying to do some work.

He's reading some self-help books.

And, you know, I don't really have that kind of vernacular at my disposal.

Like, you know, all the self-actualization.

And I'm sure there were some changes in words from take to take.

But yeah, I wouldn't call it like improvising.

I want to ask you about a few beloved episodes of the show.

One is from season two called Fishes, which was a flashback episode going back five years before Michael's death and the changes at the restaurant.

And we learn about their family, the Berzato family.

The episode takes place on Christmas.

It's a Christmas family dinner.

And for those of us who grew up in families where there's a lot of yelling, friction, and also alcoholism, this episode is so good, but it can be triggering.

And I know you say, you know, your favorite episodes of the bear take place with the family of the restaurant, the staff that works there, but this episode has this impressive group of guest actors like Jamie Lee Curtis as the matriarch of the family.

There's also Bob Odenkirk, Sarah Paulson, John Mulaney, Gillian Jacobs, and some of the rest of the regular cast members.

What was it like filming this episode?

Was it as frenetic to film as it was to watch?

Yeah, we shot this over two days.

It was different.

All of a sudden, there was SUVs on set and the food was a lot better.

That was kind of different.

I think that they rolled out the red carpet a little bit for all of our esteemed guest stars that week.

Yeah, I mean

it's funny because these were actors that

they're so high powered and we all know their work so well, but then they were guests

on our set.

And one thing I've noticed over the you know the years that I've done this is like no matter how experienced you are and how many sets you've walked onto, it is always a little bit nervous and you feel a a little bit shy, or I feel a little bit shy every time I walk onto a new set.

And so I was sort of observing these incredibly talented actors go

experience that.

And I was, I don't know, I think, at least for my part, I was very empathetic and trying to make everybody feel at home and

welcome.

There's an episode that's focused on Richie's character called Forks, and it's great and it sort of marks a transition for Richie where where he seems to find new purpose.

It's season two.

They're trying to open the restaurant, and Carmi has sent your character, Richie, to train at another restaurant, one that's called one of the best restaurants in the world.

I've read that you found filming this episode to be lonely.

It's a quieter episode, and you're really the only member of the regular cast in it.

What was it like filming this one?

Yeah, I mean, I found it lonely in a way.

I thought the lighting was cold.

It had a very different color to it than the rest of our episodes.

There's usually a real warmth.

And the bear in this one felt kind of blue and austere,

almost like an operating room.

I mean, I really love the people I work with.

And my favorite scenes to shoot, like we said, are like the group scenes where, you know, I'm talking with Liza and Lionel and

Edwin, and everyone's sort of talking over each other.

And there's this, the shorthand.

and

Here I was without any of those kind of hallmarks of the experience that I'd grown to love and was was

looked forward to and

I was working with all new actors I remember that the layout of this restaurant was so confusing I could never find what like where the bathroom was or where my little chair I've carved out some little like put my chair in like some corner where I could sort of be alone and look at my lines and think about scenes and stuff and I could never find my way back to it I was just confused, I think, most of the time.

I think that comes out in the episode, actually.

That darkness and that confusion.

Yeah, I mean, it's an episode that I don't, I've seen it once kind of through, you know,

like squinting eyes behind hands.

It's just a lot of me for me to take in,

to be honest.

One thing that's heartbreaking about Richie is how he mourns the end of his marriage.

And because of flashbacks, we know that it seems like on on the timeline, as recently as five years ago, Richie and his wife were together.

They were about to have a baby and they were very much together.

But by the time we meet Richie five years later, his marriage is over and his ex-wife is with someone else.

And I want to play a scene from that episode Forks.

Richie is working at the Michelin Star restaurant for that week.

He's taking a break and gets a phone call from his ex-wife, played by Gillian Jacobs.

Hey, hey, how are you?

I'm uh, I'm crazy.

I'm great, you know.

What's going on?

Is Eva okay?

No, she's great.

She's totally great.

Um, yeah.

Oh, yo, uh, Jimmy, um,

I got those Taylor Swift ticks.

You did, huh?

Yeah.

Oh, she's gonna be so excited.

I know, right?

It's incredible.

I got three if you wanna come, you know.

You don't have to.

No, no, no, it's I.

That's so sweet.

That's so sweet.

Um,

I just uh

I know you're really busy, so I wanted to just tell you something.

Um,

and it's a little bit hard to say.

Okay,

are you all right?

I'm fine.

Yeah, I'm fine.

Uh,

I just want you to hear it from me.

Um,

Frank proposed to me

what'd you say?

I said yes,

he's like a really good guy.

That's great, Tiff.

Thank you.

And I want you to know that nothing's gonna change between us.

That's awesome, you know.

Um,

and I love you.

That's a scene from season two of The Bear.

Will we learn more about what happened to their marriage in that relatively short period of time?

Yeah, that scene, Bear, a comedy.

Yeah, that scene's brutal.

Gillian Jacobs, such a great actress.

I love working with her.

Unfortunately, most of her scenes are phone calls because

they don't have much of a relationship anymore.

Actually, I do think there's a lot of tenderness there, and she genuinely loves them.

Do we learn more about what happened with them?

We spend more time with them together as parents, as exes.

In terms of like a literal sense of like a flashback of the two of them, that's not something that we've shot.

Do you do work to fill in what might have happened to them?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, I spend a lot of time kind of daydreaming and thinking about these things and filling in the blanks.

And

these are thoughts and fantasies and ideas that i

will never share

understood

um i think one thing that makes viewers love richie is the way that he is with his daughter even though he's divorced he's so devoted to her and doing the right thing by her and trying to be a good dad, besides having what seems like a tough upbringing, where he's sort of, you know, so much so that he becomes part of the family that owned the restaurant.

You have two daughters, and I think that being a parent of girls can be very, a very specific parenting experience.

What did you want to make sure that you brought to Richie as a father?

I mean, some of the things that

are

challenging for him and making it difficult for him to navigate his way through the world,

like...

loyalty,

honesty in a way, you know, so these things I think are sometimes

hindrances and sometimes, you know, they're really great qualities.

And

I wanted to see the kind of converse of some of these things in his relationship with his daughter.

Obviously, he, you know, he's a dad that would do anything for his daughter, like so many parents, like most parents, I would say.

And then he's really into her world.

And where he doesn't listen as well on the outside with her, his time with her is so limited that it's so valuable.

And I think each minute minute is something that he really invests himself and tries to be present in a way that he's not when he's at the restaurant.

I also,

I don't know, I just enjoy doing scenes with that little actress so much.

I think she's so great.

And

I don't know, she's so fascinating.

She's such an eccentric young girl.

There's a scene later in that episode where Richie has completely won everyone over at the fancy restaurant.

He's really getting it and getting the value of his work.

And he's driving home singing along to the Taylor Swift song, Love Story.

And it's this great triumphant moment for Richie.

How did that moment come about?

Like, was that always the song?

I read you weren't necessarily a Swifty before you shot this.

It's just such a great moment.

Yeah, it is a great moment.

I'm not going to comment about my Swifty-ness or non-Swiftiness, but

that's a minefield either way.

It's just.

Sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

Yeah.

I can't believe I did that to you.

Yeah, please, please.

Come on.

But

I think that scene is a great scene.

And

it's so nice to spend just a few minutes

singing something loudly and celebrating and

having exuberance and

driving and singing along with a song that you love loudly.

I mean, that's such a visceral, great kind of release.

Something that we don't see that much, I think, in movies and TV shows, or certainly certainly stuff that I'm not being asked to do all that much.

So,

yeah, I really enjoyed that evening.

I love those speed bumps.

I love the squeaks, the squeak of the suspension in the car.

But that was always written with that scene.

I'm sure it was a process finding her, tracking her down, getting permission to use the song, but I don't really know about the details of that process.

Well, there's something perfect about that song because it's like a triumphant young love story, which seems like an echo to Richie's story.

And then also just that he got her Taylor Swift tickets.

That's like, I mean, that's like dad of the year material.

So I feel like it just wraps it all together.

And then also as you're driving, you're still cursing as you're driving.

The character Richie is still cursing at other drivers, which I think is also pretty richy.

Yeah, and what you couldn't see is all these Arby's, these empty Arby's cups in the back seat just jumping up with every kind of speed bump.

The chaos within the car.

My guest is Eben Moss Bachrach.

The new season of the Bear premieres this week.

More after a break.

I'm Anne-Marie Baldonado, and this is Fresh Air.

This message comes from Sony Pictures Classics with East of Wall, written and directed by Kate Beecroft, an authentic portrait of female cowgirls and their resilience in the New West.

Set in South Dakota's Badlands, it follows a rebellious young rancher who rescues horses and shelters wayward teens while navigating grief, family tensions, and the looming loss of her land, now playing only in theaters.

This message comes from Schwab.

At Schwab, how you invest is your choice, not theirs.

That's why when it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices.

You can invest and trade on your own.

Plus, get advice and more comprehensive wealth solutions to help meet your unique needs.

With award-winning service, low costs, and transparent advice, you can manage your wealth your way at Schwab.

Visit schwab.com to learn more.

This message comes from FX's Alien Earth.

From creator Noah Hawley and executive producer Ridley Scott comes the first television series inspired by the legendary alien film franchise.

A spaceship crash lands on Earth, bringing five unique and deadly species, more terrifying than anyone could have ever imagined.

And a technological advancement marks a new dawn in the race for immortality.

FX's Alien Earth.

All new Tuesdays on FX and Hulu.

This is Fresh Air.

I'm Anne-Marie Baldonado, back with actor Eben Moss Bachrach.

He plays Richie on the FX show The Bear.

Season 4 starts this week.

Moss Bachrack has won two Emmy Awards for Best Supporting Actor in a Comedy Series for the role.

He starred as Desi in the TV series Girls and was in shows including Andor and The Punisher.

He started out as a stage actor and next year he'll make his Broadway debut in a stage production of Dog Day Afternoon.

Next month, he stars as Ben Grimm, aka the Thing, in the new Marvel film, The Fantastic Four: First Steps.

One of the first film roles you had was in the Wes Anderson film The Royal Tenenbaums.

You've played a Bellboy at the hotel where Royal Tenenbaum played by Gene Hackman, where he lives.

Here's a little bit of that scene, or all of that scene.

Yeah,

for sure.

There's a coffee, Mr.

Tenenbaum.

Who is it, Frederick?

A Mr.

Pagoda?

That's you and the Royal Tenbaum.

What was it like being in this film?

Was it one of the first times you were on a set?

And if that's true, what do you remember about it?

I re-watched that movie the other day

with one of my kids.

And,

God, it's such a good movie.

Yes.

I'm so happy to be part of it, even in this tiny, tiny little way.

And I think finally enough time has gone by where I was like, you know what?

I'm pretty good at Frederick the Bellhop.

I'm okay.

I'm okay.

It was the second time I was on a set,

probably my first time in such a fancy hotel.

I remember mostly Wes Anderson's attention to detail, him coming down like a tailor and sort of adjusting the hem of my pants, fixing my hair, adjusting my little pillbox hat.

I mean, I got that part because I had

quite a good head of hair.

Yeah, at the time you had kind of curly hair that comes out of the pillbox, sort of at the bottom.

Yeah, exactly.

It kind of explodes.

It's like an upside-down volcano or something.

Well, one of your breakout roles was in the TV show Girls.

You started out as a guest star who is only going to be in a few episodes, but then became a series regular.

When viewers meet you, you're auditioning for a Broadway play, and you meet the character Adam, who's played by Adam Driver, who's also auditioning and just starting out.

And by the way, Desi is a successful actor.

You know, he auditioned for a Broadway play and he got the role.

How did you see Desi?

I saw him as a little bit of a con man,

really well put together on the outside, but a lot of crisis and chaos going on internally.

A bit of a searcher.

I feel like he was not committed necessarily to acting.

He was a musician.

I'm sure he painted.

And a lot of maybe like clothing that, if I'm being like really not charitable, like maybe pre-distressed

jeans.

Yeah, a lot of pre-distressed denim.

Yeah.

But also,

you know, somebody that felt very deeply, loved deeply,

a baby.

Yeah.

A little bit.

I want to play a scene from girls.

Here, Desi is a regular cast member and is now with the character Marnie.

They started out as a musical duo with some success.

Eventually, Marnie and Desi get married,

but they're also this musical duo, too.

In this scene, they're arguing about what music to use in their upcoming showcase for a record label, which is important to their future career as musicians.

Here's the scene.

You know what?

We should open our showcase with this song.

Thank you.

But this is not one of our top two.

What do you like better?

Rattlesnake Cowgirl, Heart for Sale, Woah Wow, Wonderful.

Song from Marcus Garvey, Oaxaca Blues, Coca Pelli Shelly.

I mean, that's top six right there.

Yeah, I know.

I just feel like it's our chance to show some range.

Okay, see what I think about the showcase?

We put our best foot forward.

Agreed.

And if half of our set is a Syrapy love song, that's a total mislead, babe, you know?

But we sing love songs.

Not really.

We sing like

modern American folk with an indie edge.

I tell people that we're like she and him, but with actual romance.

But we're nothing like she and him.

We're not?

Whoa.

You're blowing my mind right now.

Marnie, we are not.

I hope we're like she and him.

My god.

We are nothing.

Are you kidding me right now?

You're freaking me out.

We are nothing like she and him, okay?

We are nothing like that band.

How can we have completely different takes on the same band that we are both in?

That is bizarre to me.

I'm starting to wonder if maybe you don't like Close Up because I wrote it instead of you.

No, I like this song.

Are you sure?

I loved this song.

Okay.

What do you mean loved this song?

And then you told me that you're writing she and him songs and now like my whole I gotta do a heavy rethink here.

How about we talk about the partnership that I thought we were in, Whereas recently, no, recently it's just been me writing while you tinker with your motorcycle.

That's my mode of transportation, Marnie.

That is my mode of transportation.

That doesn't change anything.

That's how I get...

That's weak, dude.

That's my mode of transportation.

That's a scene from girls.

Did you watch girls at the time when it was airing?

I didn't, no.

I watched a little bit of it the first season, but I also was so jealous that I really wanted to be a part of it.

And so it was complicated for me to watch it.

It was filming right there.

It was filming like right by you.

Yeah, exactly.

I would see it walk by.

And then once I was working on it, I wouldn't watch it much just because I didn't want it to sort of affect

the way I was going to continue to work on it.

I didn't want it to make me self-conscious.

What do you think of that scene?

Oh, my God.

That scene is.

That list of songs is really, really funny.

Let's take a short break and then we'll talk some more.

My guest is Emmy Award-winning actor Eben Moss Bachrach.

His show, The Bear, begins its new season this week.

More after a break.

This is fresh air.

This message comes from Jerry.

Many people are overpaying on car insurance.

Why?

Switching providers can be a pain.

Jerry helps make the process painless.

Jerry is the only app that compares rates from over 50 insurers in minutes and helps you switch fast with no spam calls or hidden fees.

Drivers who save with Jerry could save over $1,300 a year.

Before you renew your car insurance policy, download the Jerry app or head to jerry.ai slash NPR.

Support for NPR and the following message come from IXL Online.

Is your child asking questions on their homework you don't feel equipped to answer?

IXL Learning uses advanced algorithms to give the right help to each kid, no matter the age or personality.

One subscription gets you everything, one site for all the kids in your home, pre-K to 12th grade.

Make an impact on your child's learning, get IXL now.

And NPR listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up today at ixl.com/slash NPR.

This is Fresh Air.

I'm Anne-Marie Baldonado, back with actor Eben Moss Bachrach.

Next month, he stars in the new Marvel film, The Fantastic Four First Steps.

He's won two Emmys for his portrayal of Richie on the FX show The Bear.

Next month, you truly enter your Marvel era.

You've been in the Marvel universe before, but you're becoming a main character in the new movie, The Fantastic Four First Steps.

You play the character Ben Grimm, who develops mutant supernatural powers and becomes the thing.

This first movie is coming out, and then you'll reprise your role in the two new upcoming Avenger films.

So you're definitely, you know, in for more than one movie.

What was it like being in this film?

Yeah, very different kind of part for me.

I guess the biggest departure would be that it's it's motion capture, performance capture.

So I wear these groovy looking pajama kind of tights and top and then I have wires strapped to various points of my body, and then I have a helmet with

kind of GoPro-looking cameras kind of on little extended gimbals

right in front of my nose to sort of capture my eyes and my mouth and my facial expressions.

And where are you doing?

What space are you in when you're doing this?

I'm in on the set, you know, and

I haven't seen the movie yet, but one thing I do know is that the art department and our production design is really spectacular.

And so we did, so they're really

pretty incredible set builds, like things that I had never seen before.

That reminded me of like old style, like D.W.

Griffith kind of like movie making huge, big, sprawling sets of New York and Times Square and the Lower East Side, incredible mid-century modern

house that the Fantastic Four live in.

So I'm just on all these really cool sets and very much involved as I would be, you know, I'm just in there

with the other people in the scene, and I'm interacting with them, and they're in costumes, and I'm just sort of in this other strange,

techie kind of,

you know, placeholder for what will then be built around me, animated, you know, this much bigger orange rock guy.

Aaron Powell, can you describe your character, Ben Grimm, who is the thing?

I'm not sure how much of the original story from the comic book series and from other movies are still part of this character.

You know, people feel so strongly

about this.

You can't stray too far from the path.

You got to keep it pretty canon.

Ben is from the Lower East Side.

He's from Yancey Street,

which is maybe

a little bit like Delancey Street, maybe.

And he's a school friend of Reed Richards.

He's a football player.

He's a wrestler.

He becomes a star pilot, really amazing pilot.

And

Reed

is this genius scientist that convinces Ben and his wife Sue and her brother to go up and to steal the ship and go into outer space.

And there's like a storm, some kind of space storm, and these gamma rays penetrate the ship and they all return, changed forever.

Ben is more changed because

he has physically been altered.

He has this new rock kind of dermis, which is so he looks like a monster.

and he doesn't change back and forth like the Hulk or anything.

That's just how he is for the rest of his life, with a couple of exceptions.

Oh, that's right.

Yeah, your character stays as a rock.

Yeah, that's really key

to his psyche, I think.

I haven't seen The Fantastic Four yet, but I like that you're playing another character that has this rock exterior.

In this case, literally, he's made of rock.

You've said that this acting compared to your other roles, it's almost like another job.

I was thinking that you show so much emotion through your face and through your physicality.

What did you mean that it's almost a different kind of job?

What are other ways that it's different?

I would think about it a lot in two ways.

Over the course of a day, my brain would go back and forth.

One speed was that I was just trying to imbue this character with as much humanity as I could.

Because I felt like I had to in some ways fight through all of this animation and because I was interested in

I think it kind of was similar to probably Ben's experience on a day where he knows how he seems and he knows he looks like this horrible monster and so he's making concerted effort to bring his humanity through to to make people feel okay, to make people feel less, to make people be less mean towards him, to sort of undercut his external appearance.

So I had that, that that was going in one way, while simultaneously I was had all this physical freedom And that in many ways, this technology and this animation was

like a mask.

And I had

I wasn't confined to

my body and my physical appearance the way that I am for any other part I've ever done.

So there was things I could do with movement, with heaviness, and the way he would...

his huge hands, huge feet, the way he would interact with things.

So

that became

a much more imaginative

fantasy, sort of almost like how I would play make-believe when I was a kid, you know.

So, you are thinking about movement in a different way.

Yeah, well, certainly.

I mean, I had to.

He couldn't really move the way that I can move.

I mean, he's very, very heavy.

He weighs thousands of pounds.

At the same time, he's very nimble, but I mean, I'm a kind of uncoordinated,

lanky sort of, I don't know,

wet rubber band or something.

So he's a much heavier, grounded dude.

Now, it was recently announced that you will be on Broadway next year in a stage play, Dog Day Afternoon.

It's based on the same real-life robbery that the 1975 movie Dog Day Afternoon was based on.

You star with John Berthal.

who is someone you co-star with in the bear.

You were also on the show The Punisher with him.

And I think you've done plays together.

I actually read that you recommended him for the part of Michael on the bear.

Is that true?

Yeah, that's true.

Yeah.

I got John that job.

So he got me this dog day afternoon gig.

So now we're even

well so what and you know what was it about him that you thought would be good for Michael?

Who's the best friend and you know the brother who passed away, who committed suicide?

And we don't really see him correct me if I'm wrong, but we don't really see him at all in the first season until maybe just the very end of the season in a flashback.

Is that

if I'm remembering that correctly?

I think something like that.

And in my mind, when

I was reading the scripts, I kind of felt like we would never see him.

And I thought that that was probably the way to play it because he's so talked about.

He's this specter sort of informing everything.

And I just

thought it would be disappointing, or

maybe I just like that idea of let everybody

in the in the audience let them have their own idea of who this person is who's larger than life.

And so when Chris Store,

our showrunner, was asking me if I thought I had any ideas for who could be playing Michael Berzato,

I was like, I don't think we should ever see him.

I just think that will just diminish because anything.

And then at one point I did, I was like, you know what, actually,

John is such a

than life, magnetic, charismatic person.

I was like, you know, what would you think about John Bernthal?

And I suspect that Chris all along was sort of encouraging me to reach out to John.

I think I'm pretty sure that he all along, this is, he was just waiting for me to come to this realization.

And I think John's, you know, terrific, really, really great in this part.

And also like one of the few actors that could fill the shoes of this guy.

What is your connection to the story and the film Dog Day Afternoon?

Because you'll be playing the role of Sal, which was originated by the actor John Casal, who appeared in only five movies before passing away too young.

But the five movies were The Godfather, The Conversation,

Godfather Part 2, Dog Day Afternoon, and The Deer Hunter.

He was also a theater actor, like an actor's actor.

I was wondering if a young Evan Moss backrack dreamed of having an acting career like John Cazal.

Oh, 100%.

I mean, what a gift.

What an incredible gift he was.

Yeah, the conversation's like probably my favorite movie.

I mean, it's a tragedy

that he died so young, but it is probably...

Lung cancer.

Yeah, in his short time here.

Oh, my gosh.

What a force.

So, yeah, I do feel, you know, it's like...

I'll try to do my best to honor this guy, but we're going to make it a bit different.

Make it something else.

Yeah, so it's based on the same source material, which was this true story of a bank robbery that happened in New York, and that became the movie.

But the playwright is going back to that original material, too.

Yeah, there's a lot of stuff going on in that robbery before that robbery that's not in the movie.

That's really interesting that we're digging into.

There's a lot there.

When you announce something like that, a Broadway show that you're going to do next year, what is the process of preparing?

Because I'm sure you're doing other things too, but is it just that that's sort of when it fits into your schedule?

Or do you do things in the year lead up or both?

My process right now is to pretend that it's not happening for as long as possible and to delay, delay, delay.

But yeah, I don't know.

I'm very, very, very excited to do this thing and to spend a few months with my dear friend John.

And I'm sure it'll be a wonderful Kath.

And I like nothing more than like working on New American plays.

It's kind of my favorite thing to do, to be in that rehearsal room when the writer's there.

The writer's alive.

They're there.

It's a work in progress.

It's a deep, deep collaboration between writer, director, dramaturg, and the whole cast.

It's like everyone's getting their hands dirty.

It feels very alive and exciting.

And it's been a long time since I've done that.

Eben Moss Bachrack, thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you.

Thanks so much for having me.

Eben Moss Bachrack speaking with Fresh Airs and Marie Baldonado.

His film, The Fantastic Four, First Steps, comes out next month, and season four of The Bear premieres tonight.

After a short break, TV critic David Biancoly reviews a new documentary about Jane Mansfield by her daughter, Marischka Hargatay.

This is Fresh Air.

This message comes from NPR sponsor, Thrive Market.

It's back to school season, aka snack packing, lunchmaking, schedule juggling season.

Thrive Market's back-to-school sale is a great way to stock up this month with 25% off family favorites.

Easily filter by allergy or lifestyle to find kid-approved snack packs, organic dinner staples, and more, all delivered to your door.

Go to thrivemarket.com slash podcast for 30% off your first order and a free $60 gift.

This message comes from Alian's Travel Insurance.

If you're starting the year in Honolulu, ending it in Austin, and taking a sojourn to Sweden somewhere in between, it's important to protect yourself and your packed agenda.

The more adventures you have on your plate, the more chances there are for travel mishaps to leave a sour taste in your mouth.

And All Trips' annual travel insurance plan can help protect you and your peace of mind on every trip you take this year.

Learn more at Alianstravelinsurance.com.

This is Fresh Air.

On Friday, HBO premieres a documentary film called My Mom Jane.

It marks the directorial debut of Law and Order SVU star Marischka Hargate,

who sets out in the film to learn about her mother, who died in a car accident when Marishka was three.

Her mother was Jane Mansfield, the famous movie star of the 1950s and 60s.

Our TV critic David Biancoule says that My Mom Jane turns out to be much more intimate and full of genuine surprises than he expected.

At the very start of My Mom Jane, producer and director Marishka Hargatay lays out the basic facts as she knows them about her parents, siblings, and early childhood.

She has only the vaguest memories of her mother, Jane Mansfield, the sex symbol star of such films as The Girl Can't Help It and Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter.

Jane Mansfield died in 1967 in a car crash at age 34, when Marischka, one of her mother's five children, was only three.

She was raised by her father, who also was a celebrity of the 1950s.

He was Mickey Hargotay, a former Mr.

Universe.

And to young Marishka, he was the only parent she ever really knew.

My dad, who was my rock,

died in 2006

and there were so many questions that I never asked them.

I've also never really talked to my siblings much about their experiences.

But I want to understand her now

because it's a part of my life and a part of me

that's always felt locked away.

One method Marischka Hargate uses to unlock her family secrets is to do the research she had previously avoided.

She reads celebrity tell-all biographies and magazine articles and collects as many of the existing TV and movie appearances and recorded interviews as she could.

Marischka's mother was raised in Texas, played classical piano and violin, and spoke several languages.

She married young and persuaded her then-husband to move with her to Los Angeles to pursue her dream of a career in show business.

He didn't last long, and neither did their marriage.

But Jane Mansfield persisted and explained in an early interview how her plans for being a serious actress were affected by the way some people responded to her looks and especially to her very curvy figure.

I did a soliloquy from Joan of Arc for Milton Lewis, who was the head of casting at Paramount Studios, in order to audition.

And he just seemed to think that I was wasting my, as he said, obvious talents.

And he lightens my hair and tightens my dresses and leaves it a buck.

In 1955, when she was only 22 years old, Jane Mansfield became a Broadway sensation as the scene-stealing co-star of the comedy, Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter.

Movie roles followed quickly.

First, as the sexy star of the early rock and roll film The Girl Can't Help It, which also featured Little Richard and That's Domino, then in the movie version of Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter.

Also in that film was Groucho Marks, who later welcomed Jane Mansfield to his TV show Tell It to Groucho.

By that time, she was trying to shake her sex symbol image.

But as a clip from Groucho's show illustrates, even her strongest supporters couldn't resist perpetuating it.

Actually, and I've told this to other people, you're not the dumb blonde that you pretend to be, and I think the people ought to know that you're really a bright, sentimental, and understanding person.

And

this is a whole facade of yours that isn't based on what you actually are.

Oh, that's sweet of you.

Thank you.

I think you're aware of that, Jane.

This is a kind of an act you do, isn't it?

Oh, it's

people don't know that, though.

I think that it's like this: the public pays money at the box office office to see me a certain way and

they get their money's way, too.

So I think it's just all part of the role I'm playing as an actress.

My mom Jane is equally thorough about looking into Mickey Hargitay's past and how he and Jane Mansfield met and fell in love.

But after delving deeply into the public record of films, TV clips, and vintage interviews, Marishka takes an even deeper dive into the private record.

She interviews her brothers and sisters who share detailed memories with her for the first time and who are invaluable contributors as both sources and on-camera supporting characters.

Marishka also examines the vast contents of a family storage locker that had remained unopened since 1969.

And, like the determined detective she's played on Law and Order SVU since 1999, Marishka follows the clues wherever they lead.

Those clues include faces cut out of family photographs and stories about that fatal car crash, which, it turns out, was survived by the children in the car, including young Marishka.

By the end of this documentary, the information she's uncovered upends and rewrites much of what Marishka Hargate knew about her parents and herself.

The first half of My Mom Jane is a somewhat standard, well-done biography, but the second half shifts into a wild, emotional mystery story.

Eventually, there's a lot of hugging and a lot of closure, and every bit of it is arrived at honestly.

As a first-time documentary filmmaker, Marishka Hargate has done something special here.

But as a daughter telling the unvarnished truth about her parents, she's done something even more impressive.

David Biancoule is a professor of television studies at Rowan University.

He reviewed the documentary My Mom Jane, which premieres on HBO this this Friday.

Our president said, and I agree, that we must balance our economy.

There are problems that we all must face,

and luxuries are out of place.

JFK, you're right.

I'm joining in the fight.

I don't want expensive treasures.

I prefer the simple pleasures like a Longfellow poem, a cattle like Rome, a villa in Rome or in Spain.

I'm just

Lane Jane.

Oh, Jane, you're just too marvelous.

I've no eyes for tomorrow on fresh air.

Pulitzer Prize-winning fashion critic Robin Gavon joins us to discuss her new book, Make It Ours: Crashing the Gates of Culture with Virgil Ablo.

She traces the late designer's unconventional path to luxury fashion, how he challenged tradition and opened once-closed doors, and why she believes he may be one of the last of his kind.

I hope you can join us.

With Terry Gross, I'm Tanya Mosley.

This message comes from Visit St.

Pete, Clearwater, Florida.

Visitors can unwind on 35 miles of white sand beaches along the Emerald Gulf and find a variety of open-air dining options, including restaurants recognized by by the Michelin Guide.

Learn more at visitspc.com.

This message comes from NPR sponsor, Capella University.

Sometimes it takes a different approach to pursue your goals.

Capella is an online university accredited by the Higher Learning Commission.

That means you can earn your degree from wherever you are and be confident your education is relevant, recognized, and respected.

A different future is closer than you think with Capella University.

Learn more about earning a relevant degree at capella.edu.

You come to the New Yorker Radio Hour for conversations that go deeper with people you really want to hear from, whether it's Bruce Springsteen or Questlover or Olivia Rodrigo, Liz Cheney, or the godfather of artificial intelligence, Jeffrey Hinton, or some of my extraordinarily well-informed colleagues at the New Yorker.

So join us every week on the New Yorker Radio Hour, wherever you listen to podcasts.