Misty Copeland Begins A New Chapter

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Speaker 2 This is Fresh Air. I'm Tanya Mosley.
When Misty Copeland stepped onto the stage at Lincoln Center, golden confetti rained down as she took her final bow with American Ballet Theater.

Speaker 2 After years away from performing, she returned to dance Juliet one last time and spin through Twilight Tharpe's Sinatra Suite, closing a chapter that began over two decades ago.

Speaker 2 It was a farewell to a company where she made history as the first black woman promoted to principal dancer in ABT's history. By ballet standards, Copeland came to the art form late, at 13 years old.

Speaker 2 It was the culmination of a journey that began not in a traditional ballet academy, but in a boys and girls' club gym, where a shy teenager first discovered what her body could say through movement.

Speaker 2 Copeland rose through ABT's ranks to dance the roles that define classical ballet. Odette O'Deal in Swan Lake, Juliet in Romeo and Juliet, and the title role in Firebird.

Speaker 2 But her impact extends far beyond technique and tradition.

Speaker 2 As a best-selling author, film producer, and founder of the Misty Copeland Foundation, her goal is to build pathways for children who've never seen themselves reflected on the ballet stage.

Speaker 2 Now, as Copeland steps away from ABT, she's turning her focus from performance to transformation, working to remake an art form that has for centuries defined beauty through exclusion.

Speaker 2 Misty Copeland, welcome back to Fresh Air, and it's a pleasure to have you as you enter this new chapter in your life.

Speaker 4 Thank you. Excited to be here.

Speaker 2 You never wanted a farewell performance, but you got one. I I mean, there's a 15-minute standing ovation.
How are you feeling now that it's over?

Speaker 4 Yeah, it's so interesting to just kind of process all that I'm feeling. I actually feel very calm and low.
I don't know if that makes any sense.

Speaker 4 And it's a reminder, too, of kind of all the stages of recovery after performance that I feel like I forgot because it's been years.

Speaker 4 One of my favorite things about, you know,

Speaker 4 what I do is, of course, is going on stage, but then there's something so special that happens after the fact, you know, of kind of coming down and letting your body really feel

Speaker 4 all that you put into it to get to that point. And then just being grateful for it after.
And I'm trying to

Speaker 4 let myself enjoy this kind of recovery process before I start to feel normal again.

Speaker 5 Because this was quite a ramp-up.

Speaker 2 I mean, you had been gone for five years. How long were you practicing to prepare yourself for this actual performance?

Speaker 4 Yeah, it's been over five years. I think the last time I was actually performing on stage with American Ballet Theater was December of 2019.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 I started preparing October of last year. So it was a very gentle preparation

Speaker 4 towards the end of the year, like October through the end of the year.

Speaker 4 And then come January, I really started to really hone in on the ballet aspect of things because before it was really just getting my body back in some sort of shape because I really wasn't doing anything over the last five years.

Speaker 2 No dancing.

Speaker 4 No dancing. No, no, no, no, no, no, dancing at all.
No, and not a lot of physical activity either. I really needed a break.

Speaker 4 And, you know,

Speaker 4 injuries, I don't really count injuries as breaks, but, you know, I really hadn't stopped dancing since I started at 13 and,

Speaker 4 have always been very physical and was just kind of at a breaking point

Speaker 4 at the beginning of 2020 when I just felt like I needed to pause and really figure out what was going to make me feel fulfilled and good about using all that I've built, my voice and my platform and my reach.

Speaker 2 How did you approach that time period, the things that you wanted to do, the insights you wanted to discover about yourself, stepping away from ballet.

Speaker 4 I've always just really listened to myself and

Speaker 4 my instincts and my gut and you know about what felt real and authentic to me,

Speaker 4 which is why I stepped away when I did, because it was no longer feeding, I guess, a part of myself that

Speaker 4 It felt necessary.

Speaker 4 I've never been someone that has kind of fed off of the

Speaker 4 accolades or the applause. You know, I love being in the studio.
I love being on the stage, but bows have never been my favorite thing to do. And

Speaker 4 yeah,

Speaker 2 I think that is. Because that's where you get all of the

Speaker 2 response to all of the work that you've put in. Folks are standing, they're clapping for you, they're just giving you their flowers, literally.

Speaker 4 Right.

Speaker 4 Yeah. I don't know.
It's hard for me to like accept, I guess. I know it sounds so counter

Speaker 4 to what I do, but I've just never been someone that really enjoys being in the spotlight.

Speaker 4 Again, I enjoy the work and I love being on stage. And

Speaker 4 I've always felt very protected. when I was on stage.

Speaker 4 And this is something as a child and from my upbringing that being in a studio and being on stage was the first time that I felt safe in my young life.

Speaker 4 And I still feel a sense of that when I'm on stage. so for me it's never been about kind of this outward thing

Speaker 4 you know the reason I agreed to having the farewell performance was because I wanted to say thank you I wanted to say thank you for the dance community the black community all the people that have spent their hard earned money and flown from their hometowns and come to support me and and I understand like what I represent I understand all of that so like yes I had to get back upon that stage because what I represent is something far bigger than me.

Speaker 4 And I've always known that. It's just, it can be a lot.
It can be really overwhelming. And I've kind of carried that for the last 25 years.

Speaker 4 And, but, yes, I am so grateful and thankful to everyone who has built me up and poured into me and invested in me in ballet and in dance and hopefully will continue far beyond me.

Speaker 2 You know, Misty, you always seem so composed. And I got to watch the standing ovation at the end, the 15 minutes.
But in that moment, you were also dealing with a hip injury.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You were in a lot of pain.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 I think it's just a part of

Speaker 4 what we're

Speaker 4 used to.

Speaker 4 dealing with as performers and as dancers. And so it just kind of comes with the territory.
But it's so fascinating.

Speaker 4 You know, I've been just kind of very reflective over the the last couple of months and especially over the last couple of days and just thinking about how whenever I have these like

Speaker 4 monumental moments, there seems to be an injury that comes with it

Speaker 4 with all of them. And I was having this conversation with my husband about it and

Speaker 4 trying to kind of

Speaker 4 decipher, you know, what pushes me. And it's like, if I didn't have these injuries, I wonder how I would be.

Speaker 4 I wonder what, where the drive or fire, you know, if that would be coming from somewhere else, but there's always some kind of obstacle that I have to overcome to get to these, you know, the stage or to these roles.

Speaker 4 Even in my last performance with ABT,

Speaker 4 you know, I was barely walking before

Speaker 4 and somehow, you know, muster up the

Speaker 4 I found out as in in preparation for the performance that I have bone spurs in my in my left hip and a labral tear and loss of cartilage and my doctors you know they were just like I don't think this is a good idea for you to push for this performance and I said well I've already agreed to it and I'm definitely not going to wait any longer to get back on that stage so what can we do to make it happen without you know further injuring my hip so it's been a journey and I've been really good about pacing myself and in good health.

Speaker 4 And then

Speaker 4 about a month before, a couple weeks out, I think my hip was just like, I can't tolerate anymore. And it just got worse the closer I got to the performance.

Speaker 4 And I actually was canceling rehearsals and pulling back on training. up until the show because I was just

Speaker 4 trying to reserve my hip for performance.

Speaker 2 Oh, Misty, every time I think about you, I think about the pain that you endure. I mean all ballerinas to a certain extent, but yours, you've been so open about it.
You've documented it.

Speaker 2 When did you first begin to understand

Speaker 2 maybe your relationship to pain, to control it rather than to let it control you?

Speaker 4 I think that's something I learned as a child. So many things in my childhood, I feel like really,

Speaker 4 whether they're good or bad, they prepared me to be in this position. You know, I think about just

Speaker 4 always feeling uncomfortable, whether it was in the living circumstances that we were in, in my own skin, feeling so much shame around like, you know, not often having a home or food on the table.

Speaker 4 And so I didn't keep friends close. Like I just felt like I was never

Speaker 4 comfortable and was always kind of dealing with

Speaker 4 that navigating, but like keeping a happy face on on the outside like I was you know I think anyone who knew me would say like she was very quiet but she was always very happy and you know I had severe migraines growing up and I remember I would have to leave school early sometimes like to the point of vomiting and and it was just like all this stress that I held inside but somehow was able to still remain like very pleasant on the outside

Speaker 4 I think also just watching my mom navigate life and raising six children on her own and dealing with

Speaker 4 you know, a lot. And so I feel like my relationship with pain, yeah, it started very early.
Like I can remember like seven years old, probably.

Speaker 4 And so coming into the dance worlds and experiencing just the, I mean,

Speaker 4 leaving injury out of it, just the pain of what it takes to train in ballet and be an athlete, the mental strength, all of that, I think was very innate, very natural for me.

Speaker 2 You revealed to us some years ago that you've been painting your own point shoes for years to match your skin tone.

Speaker 2 And now folks can find various different skin tones with point shoes and with the tights and everything. But can you take us back to when you first started doing this?

Speaker 2 When you were doing it in those early days,

Speaker 2 how were you actually doing it? What were you even using to make them? your color?

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 I think the first time I ever did it, I must have been 14 performing with

Speaker 4 Debbie Allen in California, in Los Angeles. She was a mentor of mine, in her version of the nutcracker, which at the time she was calling the chocolate nutcracker.

Speaker 4 And that was the very first time that I was understanding what the ballet shoe even represents and what the tights mean.

Speaker 4 And it's an extension of yourself and your skin, and it should be the same color. I was wearing brown tights then and painting my shoes.

Speaker 4 But I would continue to do that throughout the course of my career at ABT. And I would just go to the drugstore and get whatever, the cheapest

Speaker 4 liquid foundation and put it on my shoes. I mean, it's not meant to be danced and it doesn't have the right like ingredients and consistency.
It's going to be very slippery.

Speaker 4 But it's the first thing that a young dancer receives is their, you know, their leotard, their ballet slippers and their tights. And that's just right there saying

Speaker 4 for a black or brown dancer, this isn't for you. You don't belong.

Speaker 2 was there ever pushback when you started doing that in the beginning did anyone tell you it was wrong

Speaker 4 no you know i i definitely knew that there were certain roles i couldn't do that in so if i was doing a more contemporary role modern um then i would wear my my skin color shoes but the conversation has now evolved into well what classical works can we allow for dancers of color to wear their their skin color in and so every company you know, has kind of come up with their own set of rules, I guess, because we're kind of just, you know, making it up as we go along because it's just, it's always been this way that when you wear, when you do a classical work, everyone wears pink tights and pink shoes.

Speaker 4 And so I know at ABT they've evolved with, I know Giselle, they allow for the Corde Ballet dancers now to all wear their own skin color.

Speaker 4 I believe in Swan Lake they still wear pink, but you know, this is, this is an ongoing kind of learning, evolving thing.

Speaker 4 And the fact that we're even at this point and companies are having the conversation is is huge.

Speaker 2 I want to ask you about something that you also talk about quite a bit, but I've always been sort of curious about. You don't wear pads in your point shoes.

Speaker 2 I mean that's something that's pretty famous. People know this about you.

Speaker 2 Most ballerinas do though, because even with pads, the pain can be excruciating.

Speaker 2 Why no pads?

Speaker 4 Well, when I started dancing, I wore lamb's wool or whatever kind of padding is what you put in your shoes. That was with my first ballet teacher.

Speaker 4 When I moved to my second ballet school where I was training, I think I was about 15 when I moved to that school. She didn't allow

Speaker 4 for us to wear anything in our shoes. She said she could see...

Speaker 4 the loss of the articulation in the toes, like when you have something between your foot and the shoe that you don't have as much control.

Speaker 4 And I remember just being so terrified of her because she could tell if I snuck a little bit of tissue or anything in my shoe, I would go up on point and she would say, Misty, there's something in your shoe.

Speaker 4 And I'm like, how does she know she must be a witch?

Speaker 4 But, you know, I'm very grateful for, and I agree wholeheartedly, you know, at this point.

Speaker 4 But preparing for this performance, after having five years off and losing all of my calluses, I had to put something over my toes. It wasn't a pad.

Speaker 4 I mean, I was wearing like a thin paper towel because

Speaker 4 I didn't have enough time to really build up all of the calluses that I had lost over a lifetime of training by not being in point shoes.

Speaker 4 But it definitely makes a difference.

Speaker 2 I need to know, you mentioned your son. How does childbirth

Speaker 2 compare to the kind of pain that you've experienced, that physical pain from injuries?

Speaker 4 You know, I couldn't have felt more prepared for labor, you know, by being a ballerina.

Speaker 4 I felt so completely emotionally, mentally, and physically prepared to give birth.

Speaker 4 And I still don't think that anything compares to Swan Lake.

Speaker 2 Really? Oh, my. Okay, so wait.
Mr. Copeland is saying

Speaker 2 Swan Lake is harder on your body than childbirth.

Speaker 4 Oh my gosh. And I know everyone has very different experiences with childbirth, and there's no way to know what someone else feels.

Speaker 4 You know, I

Speaker 4 really enjoyed giving birth to my son. Like yes, it was difficult.
There were some complications that happened.

Speaker 4 I almost had a cesarean, but my doctor pushed for me not to do it. And I ended up giving birth without any pain medication in the end.

Speaker 4 But there was something that was so familiar to me that I just kind of walked into.

Speaker 4 And it was like, oh, I know this feeling of preparation, of mental preparation, and kind of preparing yourself for the pain and breathing through the pain and just staying as calm as possible.

Speaker 4 That it was so interesting because I hadn't been on stage, you know, in some years and I felt like I was preparing for a performance.

Speaker 4 And when I gave birth to my son, I looked at my husband, I said, I want to do that again. He was like, you're crazy.

Speaker 2 What was it like to see your three-year-old son, Jackson? He walks out with his little tuxedo to give you flowers. And three-year-olds, they're just so precocious.
They say

Speaker 2 like the most amazing things. What has he said about that moment?

Speaker 4 Oh my gosh.

Speaker 4 I had no idea how he was going to respond. I mean, it can be really overwhelming or scary.

Speaker 4 And when I saw Jackson walking towards me and he wasn't holding Olu's hand, I kind of screamed to Olu, Why aren't you holding his hand? He said he wouldn't let me. He wanted to do this on his own.

Speaker 4 And it was just so beautiful. And, you know, I knelt down and I hugged him.
And he pulled this little figurine, like a dog out of his pocket. And he just goes, here's my, here, mama, this is for you.

Speaker 4 And so I was like holding this little dog in my hand trying to bow. But he was just so excited.
He was waving at the audience and he felt so confident and comfortable. And I was like, wow.
And I saw.

Speaker 4 a change in him the next day. I mean, I feel like he's a different boy now, but I'm just so grateful that he experienced seeing me perform live, well, perform for the first time.

Speaker 4 He'd never seen me dance.

Speaker 2 Not in any way.

Speaker 4 No recordings.

Speaker 4 Well, he's seen me dance with like Elmo on YouTube.

Speaker 4 But it was really, really, really special. And he just seemed like he grew up.
And I was like, a star is born.

Speaker 2 I'm sure your body changed after having a baby.

Speaker 2 What has your relationship been with your body now that that change has happened and there's no going back after that. There's only just working with what you have?

Speaker 4 It's a beautiful thing, you know, to be able to

Speaker 4 to see your body change, to acknowledge that it's changed and that it's different and that you value movement in a different way. I love a challenge and so

Speaker 4 I love the fact that I get to experience this incredible technique of classical ballet,

Speaker 4 but it's as if I've been reborn and I have a new body to try it through,

Speaker 4 which is so cool, you know, that I can focus on different things because my body can't do the things that it once did. You know, it's like learning it again.
It's like learning to dance again.

Speaker 4 It's learning the ballet technique again. And it keeps things fresh.
and exciting and it's and it's challenging.

Speaker 2 Were there were moments where you're just frustrated with your body? You're like, I could do that. I used to do this.

Speaker 4 I think one of the most frustrating is the loss of flexibility in my back, which I had heard, you know, seeing all the ballerinas go through ABT and have babies and come back and just say, it's never going to be the same.

Speaker 4 Like the back is the one thing that, like, I just can't get it to do what it used to do.

Speaker 4 Yeah, it's a strange feeling to look back at your leg and you're like, where is it? Why isn't it up next to my ear

Speaker 4 anymore?

Speaker 2 Our guest today is Misty Copeland, the trailblazing ballerina who became the first black woman promoted to principal dancer in American Ballet Theater's 85-year history.

Speaker 2 She performed her farewell with ABT at a star-studded gala at Lincoln Center on October 22nd. I'm Tanya Mosley, and this is Fresh Air.

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Speaker 2 You know, Misty,

Speaker 2 many people who are first, there is a burden that you carry, sometimes with pride that you're undergoing all of this mental and physical pain of being the first, so that those who come after you don't have to experience that.

Speaker 2 You say, like, I'm gonna carry this burden and deal with all that comes with it. But then you find the Raven Wilkinsons of the world, a black woman in ballet from the 1950s, decades before you.

Speaker 2 And then you realize, oh, there were several, maybe even many firsts,

Speaker 2 but they were intentionally erased. Did you ever at any point feel angry about that because you're so poised and talking about it in such a beautiful way that allows everyone into the conversation.

Speaker 2 But was there ever a moment where you're just like, what the heck, you know?

Speaker 4 Oh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, it was a combination of

Speaker 4 feelings.

Speaker 4 I think,

Speaker 4 in particular, you know, with Raven Wilkinson's story and finding out about her,

Speaker 4 yeah, there was this sense of

Speaker 4 regret that

Speaker 4 maybe had I known of her story sooner, I would just have a different sense of myself.

Speaker 4 But I guess I'm just not someone that kind of like wallows in that space, that

Speaker 4 I feel the anger and then it's like, how can I use this and channel it to do something?

Speaker 4 And so,

Speaker 4 yeah, it went from anger to curiosity of, you know, well, how can I find out about more and how can I share those stories? You know, there's a black dance community.

Speaker 4 There's a, you know, a strong black ballet dance community. And it's, you know, the Virginia Johnsons and the Alicia Graf Max and Lauren Anderson and Desmond Richardson.

Speaker 4 There are people that I have been able to call on throughout my career, even just to fill in the gaps of like people who have come before me that have kind of made me feel more whole.

Speaker 4 And, you know, I think something that I've been so drawn to about about ballet is that I could be a part of something that's bigger than me and that I could be a part of this

Speaker 4 legacy. But then to find out that there's a black ballet history, it's like, you know, even

Speaker 4 more so,

Speaker 4 you know, feeling like I'm healing and becoming this even more of a whole person.

Speaker 4 And it's just been so important that I'm finding ways to document our history as black dancers through my books.

Speaker 4 I mean, that's really at the core of so many of my books and the stories that I'm telling is that I'm finding ways to create our own history books and that the next generation can pick it up and learn something about themselves and their history.

Speaker 2 Is it true that your mother also studied dance when she was young?

Speaker 4 Yes. Yeah.
My mom loves dance and

Speaker 4 not on a professional level by any means, but you know, she did ballet and tap and jazz growing up. And then she was a professional cheerleader for the Kansas City Chiefs football team.
And

Speaker 4 that was just a part of our household. Like there was always music and she was always moving.
She would choreograph things for me and my siblings, like for different talent shows when we were younger.

Speaker 4 But music was like the one constant. in our household and in my life that I'm so grateful to her for because I feel like it's it's what brought me to dance.

Speaker 4 It's what allowed me to start to develop my voice and opinion. And, but yeah, she's a lover of movement and music.

Speaker 2 Most of us go through a stage of rebellion when we're coming of age. And I was curious, what did your rebellion look like?

Speaker 4 I would say I was probably 19 years old. I would say between like 19 and 21 were those years of

Speaker 4 trying

Speaker 4 to

Speaker 4 understand

Speaker 4 and find myself and connect with other people that were like me. And it definitely came out in

Speaker 4 what I was eating.

Speaker 4 I think it ended up hurting me because I wasn't taking care of myself, but it was like I didn't know how else to express myself and not feel like I was just like another peg, you know, in the system of ABT or I don't know, just trying to find my voice.

Speaker 4 And so I was really, you know, pushing back against you know being the only and I remember eating a lot of Krispy Kreme donuts I remember going out dancing going out to the club

Speaker 4 you know just like really in search of myself but I don't regret that time at all because I definitely found myself I found my husband

Speaker 4 found so many incredible friends and artists and people that I feel like a lot of dancers, you get kind of stuck in this ballet bubble. And, you know, like, you can't do this, you can't do that.
And

Speaker 4 then you never really kind of grow into a person and an individual. And you're kind of just like

Speaker 4 stunted by

Speaker 4 this ballet bubble. And I was like, I'm in New York City.
I'm in one of the most like incredible diverse cities with artists. And yet I'm spending my days from

Speaker 4 nine to seven in a studio. And I'm the only black person.
Like, this is crazy. Like, I need to be out in the world and experiencing life.
And

Speaker 4 so I was, yeah, I was going out and meeting people and exploring and seeing art.

Speaker 4 But

Speaker 4 I wasn't getting enough sleep. And I was eating poorly and gaining weight and all the things.
It was rebelling.

Speaker 2 What changed? What was the thing that made you realize like, I'm doing this because I want to do it. And now it doesn't feel so great.

Speaker 4 It was meeting my husband.

Speaker 4 Olu and I met when I was just 21

Speaker 4 out at a club.

Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah. And

Speaker 7 it was meeting him and

Speaker 4 I guess

Speaker 4 someone who

Speaker 4 just seemed so steady and grounded and had such a clear sense of self, even though he was, I don't know, he was 26, I think at the time when we met.

Speaker 4 You know, I didn't grow up really understanding how to take care of my body. Like I stumbled into ballet and happened to be good at it.
And then I became a professional within four years.

Speaker 4 Everything happened really quickly. And I didn't feel like I had a really good base in terms of like just how to take care of myself as an athlete and treat my body with respect and fuel it.

Speaker 4 And he completely changed my mindset. You know, he was a former athlete.
He played basketball, but he was raised vegetarian.

Speaker 4 He just had just such a very like holistic approach to how he took care of himself.

Speaker 4 And I trusted him and he just completely changed the way that I looked at myself as an athlete and as an artist and that it wasn't just something I was doing and I was good at it, but like I have to invest the same way I do in my training in these other aspects of myself and how I'm preparing.

Speaker 2 Let's take a short break. If you're just joining us, my guest is Misty Copeland, the groundbreaking ballerina who recently retired from the American Ballet Theater.

Speaker 2 We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is Fresh Air.

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Speaker 2 I want to ask you just a few questions about your relationship with Prince because it was a pretty defining time period in your life. You guys worked together for about six years, on and off.

Speaker 4 Yeah, you know, he definitely came into my life.

Speaker 4 You know, I guess it was in that same time when

Speaker 4 I discovered Raven and was really

Speaker 4 Raven Wilkinson, yes, and was

Speaker 4 trying

Speaker 4 to

Speaker 4 understand

Speaker 4 how I can be

Speaker 4 my fullest and best self, how I can carry on these legacies of, you know,

Speaker 4 people who have come before me. And

Speaker 4 it was just pretty surprising to find out that Prince was a fan and that he had actually followed my career since I was very young and

Speaker 4 had a vision for me to be in a music video of his and spent a year trying to find me. I still don't really understand that story.
I know. Where was he looking?

Speaker 4 I don't know. I don't know.
He says he reached out to ABT many times and that I was never given the message. Maybe they didn't believe it was him.
I don't know.

Speaker 4 But, you know, when we finally did connect,

Speaker 4 made sense,

Speaker 4 you know, for him to come into my life at that time. He

Speaker 4 was my biggest supporter. He showed me what it was to be

Speaker 4 one of a kind, to be unique, to be proud to stand in his uniqueness

Speaker 4 and to use that as a power.

Speaker 4 And I think whereas before I felt, you know, like isolated and alone being the only. And he really saw it as the opposite.
He's like, you have such an advantage.

Speaker 4 He's like, you're the only brown girl out there. Everyone's going to look at you.
Now what are you going to do?

Speaker 4 And then, you know, and then just exploring my artistry by working with him, I think made me grow in leaps and bounds as a dancer.

Speaker 4 You know, though I wasn't doing classical works with him, he really challenged me to improvise, to be in the moment on the stages that he performed in.

Speaker 4 And it really broadened my audience and appeal and brought people to ABT that had not been before.

Speaker 4 And being able to show a whole new audience, maybe that had never seen ballet before, me dancing on point on top of his piano was an incredible opportunity.

Speaker 2 That, I mean, he definitely had a vision for you. And dancing on the piano, that seems like such a feat.
I mean, a stability in itself.

Speaker 4 You know, it's interesting. When we first started working together, so the first time that I toured with him, traveling through France and dancing on different stages, and he just let me improvise.

Speaker 4 He would say, I'm going to, you know, these songs you'll dance to tonight, and you know, I'll give you a cue to leave when it's time to go.

Speaker 4 And then, as he was preparing for his Welcome to America tour, he really included me in the whole preparation for it.

Speaker 4 I mean, I was there at Paisley Park, and he was working around when I could perform with him when I wasn't performing with American Ballet Theater.

Speaker 4 So we decided on one song, and it was The Beautiful Ones.

Speaker 4 And then he had a whole idea for choreography. At the time, we were preparing to do Alexei Romanski's, he was a choreographer of ABT's The Nutcracker.

Speaker 4 It was a new version that he was putting together. And so we would be performing it at the Brooklyn Academy of Music at BAM.

Speaker 4 But we were rehearsing it at NJ PAC at the New Jersey Performing Arts Center. And so I would be with ABT all morning, all day, into the night, and rehearsing the Nutcracker until like 10 p.m.

Speaker 4 And then Prince would come in a limo and pick me up from New Jersey and take me to either one of the theaters that we were performing at or he would take me back to his hotel and we would have like a conference room.

Speaker 4 And I would be standing on the conference table using that as my piano and we'd be working through the choreography until like two in the morning.

Speaker 4 And I'm like, Prince, I've got to work in the morning, so I've got to go. You get to sleep in all day, like the rock star you are.
But it was very much this beautiful collaboration.

Speaker 4 And then to be able to perform that song with him, you know, night after night was so incredibly special.

Speaker 4 And I feel like I just grew so much as an artist and just felt like I was very open from the time that I spent working with him.

Speaker 2 You know, one of the things that I was curious about regarding Prince is that he had you in the video, Crimson and Clover, and

Speaker 2 it's a remake.

Speaker 2 What did you think about that choice? And also in that video, you're sort of taking on a modern dance. It's not ballet.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean, I

Speaker 4 mean, I liked the song before Prince remade it. So I was like, this is cool.
This is, it also feels very different for him.

Speaker 4 And just listening to the lyrics, I thought it was like a really cool thing. Just

Speaker 4 because we didn't know each other. Like we met on the set and

Speaker 2 there was no setup beforehand.

Speaker 4 i mean we spoke on we spoke on the phone like briefly and then he asked me he was like do you you know are you interested like we could fly you out this weekend and and shoot it and so i i did um but we met on the set and um

Speaker 4 and so it was just like this kind of tension like we don't know each other and so i thought that the lyrics and the i don't know it just kind of all worked and made sense and he just sat you know right next to the camera guy film filming it he sat on a um what do you call it, an Apple box with his camera and was just taking pictures of me throughout the whole shoot.

Speaker 4 What did that feel like? You'll say, oh my gosh.

Speaker 4 Yeah, it was kind of strange, right?

Speaker 4 You know, I mean, we would chat in between like takes, but I was just improvising. I mean, I had point shoes on and I was just kind of making things up.
And he didn't really give me much direction.

Speaker 4 He just was like, I just wanted you to be in it. Like I envisioned you in this and that was that.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I don't know. I thought the song made sense, especially for that time in our lives, like coming together and not really knowing each other and getting to know each other.
I thought it was cool.

Speaker 2 What meaning did you put to the song? What did it mean for you for that time period?

Speaker 4 He had said to me, you know, many times that, you know, he actually filmed the whole video with another dancer. And he was not satisfied.
And so that's when he started to look for me again. But

Speaker 4 there's like a line in the song that's like i've been waiting to know her or something like that that um i feel like just kind of sums up that time and that moment of just him really wanting me in his life and um and making that happen and and it i think it changed my life um in so many incredible ways and so it was like you know meant to be

Speaker 2 you know misty

Speaker 2 Now that you've had that five years away and you're able to discover some things about yourself, is there anything specific that you have on your list that you want to to do that you haven't done?

Speaker 4 There's so much and I feel like I've never been someone that kind of like has a list or like I have to do this. I really try and let things play out and happen organically.

Speaker 4 And if it makes sense that I'm like, okay, yes, this is, this is what we're doing, you know. But I'm open, you know, I'm open to just creating and

Speaker 4 being able to be an artist in a different way now, like to have more say in the stories that I'm telling.

Speaker 4 I'm really looking forward to all of the projects that I have on the horizon with my production company in collaboration with some incredible other producers.

Speaker 4 It just feels limitless right now, but I really want to stay true to myself and not just kind of be out there just to be out there, but with intention and purpose.

Speaker 2 Misty Copeland, this has been such a pleasure. Thank you so much.

Speaker 4 Thank you so much.

Speaker 7 Misty Copeland gave her final bow with the American Ballet Theater last month.

Speaker 4 I hope she walks out over.

Speaker 4 Cause I've been waiting to show

Speaker 4 her

Speaker 4 crimson colour

Speaker 4 of love and over

Speaker 4 baby, I baby,

Speaker 4 think

Speaker 4 of you.

Speaker 4 I wanna know about your

Speaker 4 Come in here,

Speaker 7 Coming up, TV critic David Bean coolly reviews All Her Fault, the new Peacock miniseries, starring Sarah Snook. This is Fresh Air.

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Speaker 7 Sarah Snook, one of the stars of HBO's Succession, returns to television this week. She's the star of a new eight-part miniseries called All Her Fault, based on a novel by Andrea Mara.

Speaker 7 The first four episodes drop all at once this Thursday on the Peacock streaming service. Our TV critic David Biancouley has this review.

Speaker 3 Sarah Snook has provided plenty of proof about how good an actress she is, and attention has been paid.

Speaker 3 She won an Emmy Award for her role as Shiv Roy, one of the manipulative wealthy siblings on Succession, and won a Tony Award for playing 26 different roles in her one-woman Broadway production of the picture of Dorian Gray.

Speaker 3 In her new peacock TV miniseries, All Her Fault, she plays only one role, but right from the opening scene, it's a dramatic and challenging one, and she pulls you right in.

Speaker 3 Snook plays Marissa Irvine, a wealthy wife with a five-year-old son.

Speaker 3 We meet her at the start of All Her Fault, running a seemingly mundane errand, picking up her son from an after-school play date at the home of Jenny, one of the other classroom moms.

Speaker 3 Except when Marissa arrives at the address that Jenny had texted to her, the woman who lives there isn't Jenny and knows nothing about a play date or about Marissa's son Milo.

Speaker 3 Linda Cropper plays Esther, the helpful homeowner. Sarah Snook as Marissa reads aloud from the text on her phone.

Speaker 11 The address is 1800 Crescent Hollow Road. If I'm not home from work when you get there, my nanny will be there with the boys.

Speaker 12 This isn't.

Speaker 11 Isn't 1800?

Speaker 4 It is, but there's no Milo here.

Speaker 12 It's just me, all by my lonesome. Who sent you the text?

Speaker 11 Uh, a mom from the school, Jenny.

Speaker 12 Milo's on a play date with her son Jacob, and this

Speaker 12 is where I'm supposed to pick him up.

Speaker 12 I'm not crazy, right? That's this address.

Speaker 13 It is.

Speaker 12 Should you give her a call?

Speaker 13 Yeah.

Speaker 13 Yeah.

Speaker 13 We're sorry.

Speaker 11 You have reached a number. It's not working.

Speaker 6 The number isn't working.

Speaker 12 Come on in. We'll figure it out together.

Speaker 4 You have reached a number, Denny. Thank you.

Speaker 3 From there, things escalate quickly and frighteningly. Milo has an electronic tracker in his backpack, but it's been disabled.

Speaker 3 When Marissa calls another parent at the school to confirm Jenny's phone number, she learns Milo couldn't be on a play date with Jacob because Jacob is with that other parent.

Speaker 3 And when Esther uses the correct phone number to call Jenny, who's played by Dakota Fanning, the news gets even worse.

Speaker 3 And in the space of a few moments, Marissa goes from calm to justifiably panicked.

Speaker 2 Would you like me to call Jenny for you?

Speaker 4 Uh,

Speaker 4 yeah, yeah.

Speaker 12 Hello. Hello, Jenny.

Speaker 4 You don't know me, but I'm here with your friend Marissa. Hi, this is Jenny.

Speaker 13 Yeah, is everything all right? Well, Marissa thought her son was at your house today, but there seems to be some kind of confusion on that.

Speaker 14 Oh, no, I'm working tonight. Jacob's at Sarah Larson's for a play date.

Speaker 13 So, Milo isn't with you.

Speaker 4 No, he isn't.

Speaker 6 Okay, so.

Speaker 12 No, you sent me a message.

Speaker 4 Hi, I'm Marissa.

Speaker 14 No, I'm so sorry, but I didn't. It's on my phone.

Speaker 14 I'm not crazy.

Speaker 2 It's on my phone. You sent me a text.

Speaker 14 I promise I didn't.

Speaker 2 Is Milo okay?

Speaker 14 I'm sure he's he's fine. We'll figure it out.

Speaker 6 Thank you, Jenny.

Speaker 3 The next call is to Marissa's husband, which goes straight to voicemail. You've reached Peter Irvine.

Speaker 14 Please leave a message. Peter, can you call me back?

Speaker 2 Right now, please?

Speaker 4 Right now. That's your husband.

Speaker 14 Could he have picked up your son?

Speaker 2 Maybe forgetting to tell you.

Speaker 6 No, he doesn't do that. It's a...

Speaker 6 Sorry, Danny urts me and he doesn't ever pick up Milo from school.

Speaker 4 Could your son still be at at school? No.

Speaker 2 No, it's past five.

Speaker 14 School is closed.

Speaker 7 So there's no way he could still be there.

Speaker 6 No, they would have called me. If no one picked him up, they would have...

Speaker 6 So someone has picked him up.

Speaker 4 Who picked up my son from school?

Speaker 3 This is all before the opening credits.

Speaker 3 Megan Gallagher, who created and wrote the TV adaptation of Andrea Mara's novel, ramps the tension to a fever pitch at the very beginning, then follows the narrative in two directions at once.

Speaker 3 Part of all her fault moves forward, day by day, tracking the events as the police work with the family to try to locate Milo.

Speaker 3 But an equal part of the story is told in flashback, revealing, slowly and sometimes surprisingly, the mysterious pasts of many of the characters.

Speaker 3 There are lots of characters, and they're almost like a school of red herrings. At some point, it's fair to suspect all of them of something nefarious.

Speaker 3 The detective on the case, played by Michael Pena, has his hands full, but Penya is up to it.

Speaker 3 Whether he's interacting with suspects in an interrogation room or playing with his own young son at home, Pena radiates sensitivity and weariness, like Mark Ruffalo in Task.

Speaker 3 The rest of the exceptional performances are turned in by women. Dakota Fanning, as Jenny, becomes a key character.
So does Abby Elliott from The Bear, who plays Marissa's sister-in-law.

Speaker 3 Her emotional range and rawness matches that of Sarah Snook.

Speaker 3 And the same can be said of Sophia Lillis, who plays a nanny who becomes increasingly central to the plot. The drama's focus on all these women is not coincidental.

Speaker 3 Told from their characters' perspectives, their differing viewpoints and memories are crucial. So are the performances of the actresses who play them.

Speaker 3 The title All Her Fault turns out to be relative, depending upon which her in the story is being blamed, because eventually all of them are.

Speaker 3 But the women in front of and behind the camera in All Her Fault deserve nothing but credit. It's a thriller and a psychological drama that works so well mostly because of them.

Speaker 7 David Bean coolly reviewed the new Peacock series All Her Fault.

Speaker 7 Tomorrow on fresh air, journalist David Graham of The Atlantic on how the groundwork for next year's midterm elections is already being laid.

Speaker 7 From new voting restrictions to legal battles and political power plays, his latest piece, The Coming Election Mayhem, looks at what's ahead. I hope you can join us.

Speaker 7 To keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews, follow us on Instagram at NPR Fresh Air.

Speaker 7 Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham.
Our managing producer is Sam Brigger.

Speaker 7 Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Anne-Marie Baldonado, Lauren Crinzel, Teresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Theia Chaloner, Susan Nakundi, and Anna Bauman.

Speaker 7 Our digital media producer is Molly C. V.
Nesper. Our consulting visual producer is Hope Wilson.
Roberta Shorrock directs the show. With Terry Gross, I'm Tanya Mosley.

Speaker 5 This message comes from Vital Farms, who works with small American farms to bring you pastor-raised eggs. Farmer Tanner Pace describes what makes a pasture-raised egg unique.

Speaker 15 Before we first started with Vital Farms, I thought, you know, an egg's an egg, not a big deal, but it's hard for me to even eat an eggs that's not a vital farm egg now.

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