Texan-Palestinian Comic Mo Amer

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Starring Natalie Dormer, now playing only in theaters. This is Fresh Air.
I'm Dave Davies. Season 2 of the comedy series Mo is now available on Netflix.
It's based on the life ofe Ammer, a comedian of Palestinian descent who grew up in Kuwait and Houston and is fluent in Arabic, Spanish, and English. As the first season ended, Moe was trying to stop the theft of his family's olive trees from a Texas farm when he ended up trapped in the thieves' truck and transported to Mexico.
As season When two opens, he's stuck in Mexico City because he's undocumented. He sells falafel tacos from a vending cart and plays in a mariachi band to get by.
But he's desperate to get back to Houston, where his long-awaited asylum hearing is fast approaching. Here, he's talking to a clerk at the American Embassy in Mexico, where he's been seeking a travel document to get into the United States.
You know me, this is like the 12th time I've seen you. I've seen your colleague like six times.
Yeah, this is like the 13th time I have to ask you, where's your passport? I don't have a passport. Exactly.
Next. No next.
Wait, wait. Okay, look, I got an asylum hearing coming up in Houston that I've been waiting for for 22 years.
And if I get that asylum granted, I can eventually get a passport. Please, God, I've been begging for the last six months after I was kidnapped and brought to Mexico against my will.
And no one's willing to help me. Right.
You were kidnapped by the Olive Tree cartel, it was, right? No, no, no. My lawyer said if I can get a lazy passe lazy passe, I can legally cross the border.
Just come to terms with the fact. You're Mexican now.
Okay? Feliz cumpleaños. I'll tell you what.
If you give me a lazy passe, I'll donate to your vacation fund. You want to go tubing in San Marcos? Because I can't afford more than San Marcos.
You want to bribe me? Who said bribe? Nobody said bribe. I didn't say bribe.
I did not. Put your hand down.
I didn't say bribe. I said donation.
Politicians take donations all the time. Then I'm going to need you to politely off.
Mo, short for Mohammed, has made a name for himself in comedy, starring in stand-up specials, touring in the U.S. and other countries, and co-starring in the Hulu series Rami.
In his Netflix series Mo, he's close to his mother and autistic brother, his Mexican-American girlfriend, and a kaleidoscope of ethnically diverse friends. Season 2 eventually takes him to his ancestral home in the West Bank, where the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is integral to the story.
A review in The Guardian says season two of Mo brings together food, identity, immigration, family, and Middle Eastern politics in a way that's as fresh and intriguing as the falafel tacos that become central to the plot. Today we're going to listen to my 2022 interview with Mo Ammer when the first season of Mo aired.
Mo Ammer, welcome to Fresh Air. Thank you for having me.
I got to tell you, I struggled a little bit when I was writing your introduction, because I feel like if I describe you as Palestinian, that doesn't quite capture the Mo Ammer I see in your stuff. You kind of have more than one identity, don't you? That's really interesting you say that i mean i i definitely identify as palestinian american but i you know it's one of those things that as a refugee as i lead america uh someone is trying to fit in and feel like have some kind of sense of belonging you kind of become a chameleon and you really start putting yourself in other people's shoes almost immediately to be like more relatable and understood.
It's very interesting how that works, that naturally and organically just comes together that way. But, yeah, I definitely identify as a Texan, Palestinian.
I mean, I know this feels like a juxtaposition and kind of like two worlds that should be colliding, but I feel very much at home with those two worlds.

Right, and when people first met you,

I mean, given your skin color,

they probably assumed you were Mexican-American,

and I can tell from the series that you speak obviously Arabic.

You speak Spanish pretty fluently to me,

and at least a couple of three dialects of English too, right?

Absolutely, absolutely.

I can pretty much cover all the dialects in English.

I am conversational, completely conversational in Spanish.

My grammar is not perfect sometimes, but yeah, I don't have any problems at all having a full-on conversation in Spanish and fluent in Arabic.

All right.

Well, I wanted to listen to a scene from the series Mo, which, as we said, premieres on Netflix tomorrow.

And this will give us a little bit of sense of some of your linguistic ability to fit in. The series is about you, a character which named Mo, kind of pretty much you in your 20s, I guess, single, living in Houston, dating a Mexican-American woman, which, of course, your Palestinian mom sort of disapproves of.
this is a scene where you've just lost a job you had in an electronic shop because the owner

was concerned about an immigration raid and you didn't have your papers. So you've returned to an old side hustle of selling knockoff merchandise out of the trunk of your car.
And this scene happens in you've got your big car backed up to the edge of a strip mall, which you see plenty of in Houston. And there's this heavyset guy and a white guy in a cowboy hat walking down the sidewalk.
And you engage him and say, hey, it looks like you got orthopedic shoes there. Does that hurt your back? And try and sell him a pair of shoes from the trunk.
And they're imitations of these odd-looking shoes marketed by Kanye West, kind of in part made from the foam.

The easy foam runners, and I swear by them, okay?

The easy foam runners, and they are, I like literally mean everything I say in the clip.

Well, here, you open this, and then you pull out a little stool.

You've got a little portable store there.

So it begins with you engaging this fellow.

Let's listen.

How you doing, brother? Beautiful weather, huh? Yeah, it is. Yeah, we're lucky.
What do you got, orthopedics? store there. So it begins with you.
Thank Yeezy's is what I say.

Come on, let me show you something.

Oh, no, I...

Holy .

You got a whole store in there.

That's right, baby.

I'm an entrepreneur.

Look at this.

Good for you.

Thank you.

Designer yet orthopedic.

Hell, that don't look like anything I put on my feet.

They look like alien shoes.

Well, they are from whatever planet Kanye's from,

but don't judge them to you. Try them on, brother.
Come on. Come on in for a moon landing.
And take 30 seconds of your time. Here we go.
You gotta look after your lower back. Yeah, that I do.
Here you go. Come on.
Give them a try. All right.
These are genuine recycled algae. Whoa.
Yeah. Whoa.
Oh my goodness. Look at that..
Son these shoes are golden. How much? Aftermarket these go for about $350,000.
Now I'm gonna give them to you for $200. So I can't tell my wife I paid $200 for a pair of algae shoes.
Brother I smell what you're stepping in okay so I'm gonna sweeten the pot. Now for $300, I know, hold on a second, hear me out.
I'm going to throw in the Chanel purse, all right? Now this will retail well over $1,000. You ain't going to find a better replica than this.
She won't know the difference. And that is Mo Ammer making a sale in the series Mo, which premieres on Netflix tomorrow.
You know, we hear you speaking kind of the Texan version of English, which I will say I grew up in South Texas. I recognize that accent.
You use that to connect to people, I guess, lots of times growing up, didn't you? Yeah, I think it's one of those things that I actually just connect with in general. I mean, the Palestinian culture is a folksy farmer kind of mentality in life.
And when I came to Texas, it's one of the things that was really attractive to me was the country music, the folksy music, the storytelling tradition of that. And I really just attach myself to it because it's in my blood.
And, you know, in the character, in the scene itself, it's meant to be that I'm, you know, endearing to him and, and develop trust. So you did sell knockoff stuff on the street.
This is a real thing. No comment.
Yeah, no, I did. I absolutely did.
I was a teenager. It's just something that I just fell into.
Honestly, I was wearing knockoff Versace sunglasses that I thought were cool. And someone was just like, hey, those are really nice.
You know, you selling those? I'm like, yeah, it's my last one. And it just became my shtick where somebody would walk in where I see someone that might be interested in what I have.
I'd put it on, I'd wear it, they'd comment on it, and then I would sell it. That's how it worked.

I imagine you developed some kind of skills for reading people and communicating that

probably helped in stand-up when you got to that.

No, absolutely. Assessment of situations of people is crucial to be not only a great salesman,

but a great stand-up comedian. So it did help a lot.
And it's one of those things that when

you experience such hardships, you become really good at figuring out what's good and bad and

Thank you. So it did help a lot, you know, and it's one of those things that when you experience such hardships, you become really good at like figuring out what's good and bad and following your gut.
More so following your gut, right? Like, you know, this could be a good thing. When you tap into that and you realize that you have a high percentage of hit rate where you're right, you start to trust it way more.
And when it's time to close things up and split too, I imagine. Exactly.
Exactly. You know, we mentioned earlier that your family left Kuwait and ended up in Houston.
Tell us a bit more about that. Your family was in Kuwait, had a comfortable life.
And then the first Gulf War happened, which was Saddam Hussein invading Kuwait. How much do you remember of that departure? I remember all of it, every bit of it.
That's why I recreated it in the flashbacks as much as possible, whenever budget allowed us to do. I think it's one of those things that is not really, that's glossed over.
It's such an important topic, the Gulf War, that really sparked everything, right? Even to this day, we're still dealing with that war, this domino effect of political relations throughout the MENA region, Middle East, North Africa. and I really believe that that was one of the biggest turning points in that area.
I mean, if you think about it, there wasn't any American military presence there pre-Gulf War

and since then we've never left and we we've been present in that area ever since. And there's so many people that were affected by that war.
You know, particularly a lot of Palestinians were affected by it. They had to flee from there.
It was like, now it's that they're, you know, think about my mom and my dad's perspective. This is the third, second or third time they have to flee because of being stateless and, you know, to have to create a new life again.
So this is something that was really important to me to show this like generational trauma, essentially, that you're starting now to see it starting over in Houston, Texas. They had fled Haifa before when the 47 war happened? Right.
So they were 47. So once Israel became a state and the United Nations was formed, if you were in the, some people were able to, some Palestinians were able to stay in the Israeli quote unquote territory.
So those people are called Israeli Arabs and they're Palestinians, but they're referred to Israeli Arabs. And we had to, yeah, my family historically left Haifa and ended up in Burin, which is right outside of Nablus, one of the biggest cities, I think, in the entire area.

Why did your family end up in Kuwait?

Well, it was before I was born.

So I'll just tell you what I know.

I know my father was offered a job at the Kuwaiti Oil Company as a telecommunications engineer, and that's why my family relocated to Kuwait. And so we settled there for a long time.
My father was actually instrumental in building wireless communication between oil rigs and was one of the first people to build a radio station in Kuwait, he and his team. So we were there for years before that.
And they would visit regularly before, you know, everything blew up in Palestine and in Tefada and created the situations became more and more and more tense and it became more and more difficult to go back and visit. So tell us what happened in Kuwait.
I mean, you were there, your dad was

working in telecommunications, making a good living. You had a pretty comfortable life.
What

happened that forced you to leave? I mean, I know the Iraq invaded, but how did your family

experience that? Sure. I mean, I was a little kid.
I was nine years old when that happened. So I was,

you know, this is my first time seeing my parents worried about anything, right? Like something as dramatic as this. And I knew it was really, really serious.

the conditions became like not really livable because of what Saddam Hussein was doing.

He released a bunch of prisoners at that time and instructed them to rob the entire area and everything just became so incredibly unsafe when it was one of the safest places to be in the world you know it became so unpredictable and it was really scary time and turbulent time so it was it was at that moment that my father and my mother both made a decision together that we should leave um and head to america and that's why we ended up in Houston, Texas. But that is not something that you just pick up and leave overnight.
At that time, we had to leave on a bus. And I remember this clear as day.
That's why I put it in the flashback in the series is us fleeing on a bus and leaving with whatever we had and my mom having to hide it, hide the money strategically so it doesn't get taken from us through Iraq to Amman, Jordan. Finally, we got our paperwork to leave.
My sister and I actually left and ended up in Houston, Texas. My mom actually went back.
So that's how much of a gangster, an incredible woman she is. She went back to Kuwait to finish everything up with my father and my brother.
And it was a really delicate and difficult situation. Also, politically, it was really different, right? Because at that time, you know, yes, Arafat gave his blessings or support to Saddam Hussein.
So it became a really difficult time for Palestinians, even though it had nothing to do with us, you know, as a political thing. And that's what normally happens, right, where politicians make decisions that affect the people that have nothing to do with anything.
So we had to leave at that time. We had no other choice.
So you were describing how your family left Kuwait after the invasion by Iraq in the first Gulf War in 1991. You and your mom and your siblings eventually made it to Houston.
Your dad wasn't there for quite a while. He got there a couple of years later.
And you got into school. And as we heard in that clip, it was a weird beginning.
You were used to wearing a bow tie to school and speaking with an English accent. And everybody assumed you were Mexican-American.
And you managed, you made your way, and then your father died. You were 14, is that right? What was the effect of that on you? It was incredibly potent.
I didn't know. You know, so many things changed from 9 to 13 from my age.

So many things were already changing so dramatically.

And to lose my father was a devastating blow.

You have all the things going through your head.

I didn't have enough time.

What did I do?

What did I say to him?

You have regret.

You go through all the motions of that.

I was completely lost, to be honest.

I started skipping school. Stopped being interested in it at all in high school.
I didn't want to participate in anything. Uh, and it was really hard to focus.
And I just had it in my head. I was going to be a standup comedian anyway.
Why do I need this? Uh, just forget this. It's a joke anyway.
I just, I just had zero interest in anything other than being a stand-up comedian and entrepreneur.

That's all I wanted.

And then my teacher, Mrs. Reed, and Mrs.
Broderick in English class changed my life.

And she woke me up to it.

She was like, how would you feel if you don't graduate?

How would your father feel if you don't graduate?

And it pierced my heart.

I'm like, it would be devastating.

I come from a highly educated family.

This would be a really big black mark on us like and myself and I don't want that she goes don't you want to be a stand-up comedian I was like yeah absolutely I do she goes I tell you what if you don't if you stop skipping I'll let you do stand-up in class I was like what are you sure I can do stand-up in class she was like yeah she goes all you have to do is just sprinkle in something because's English class. If you can sprinkle in some Shakespeare or be creative and figure out a way how you can, you know, mix in the curriculum, I'll give you extra credit even, and I'll let you do stand-up on Fridays.
I was like, this sounds like a great deal. I was like, what's the catch? She goes, you can't skip anymore.
You skip once and it's over for you. I'm going to give you, I'm going to fail you.
It's over. Let's back up a second.
You said that, you know, you knew you wanted to be a stand-up comedian. How did you know that? What got you interested in comedy? First of all, I'd never heard of stand-up comedy.
It's an indigenous art form to America, right? There's three. It's jazz, hip-hop, and stand-up.
So I didn't know anything about it. I went to the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo a few months after being in the States to kind of change things up.
My family took me just to kind of get my mind off of things and to try to do something fun. And I saw Bill Cosby performing live.
At the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo? That's great. Yeah, so it was him co-head he was co-headlining with the band alabama uh and i saw it and i just in front of 65 000 plus people just telling these hilarious stories and i looked at my brother i was like what is this it's like this is stand-up comedy i was like oh my god that's what i'm supposed to be doing with my life and And my brother was like, okay, yeah.
This kid's having a moment. He had no idea how profound of a moment it was for me and how it was just so real that this is exactly what I'm supposed to be doing.
How old were you when that happened? I was nine. Oh, wow.
You were little. And how did you start doing it? You started cracking your friends up? Did you do it in front of a mirror? How did you develop stand-up as a kid? I was always really funny.
I was always telling stories. I never had like a – that was just natural to me.
And my mom would tell me like when I just started walking, I would walk in front of the television and turn off the TV and start doing gestures and making sounds. But that's how it worked out.
And I did stand-up in high school. Like I said, I was doing it in classes.
And I would do impressions of Chris Farley. And I would just, like, roast kids in class as Chris Farley.
And then when I graduated high school, I walked into the Laugh Stop, which is an iconic comedy club. Unfortunately, it's no longer open anymore in Houston.
I did the Houston's Funniest Person competition, and that's where I learned about the world of stand-up and what it takes in a comedy club, open mics, and building a set. And that's where I met my mentor, owner of the comedy showcase, Danny Martinez, who ended up teaching me everything I needed to know about stand-up comedy, the art form, getting my wings and how to become a proficient stand-up comedian.

Well, you know, one thing I observed in the performances that I've seen of yours is the way you use your voice like an instrument.

You can quickly get loud and kind of come up and pitch in a way that totally works.

Was that something that you always did or is it something that you worked on? Oh, I learned that. Yeah, I learned that.
It's so important. I think comedians don't understand you have an instrument there with your voice.
Man, it brings me so much joy that you recognize that. It takes years to perfect something like that or to hone a skill like that.
I think that sounds, and again, that's something that Danny taught me early on in my stand-up career is how understanding what mic technique is and where you put the mic and the inflection in your voice and when you use it where. It's not something that I deliberately try to do.
It's just a natural thing that happens while I'm telling a story that I'm highly conscious of. So I just do it naturally in the moment.
Mo Ammer recorded in 2022. He stars in the Netflix series called Mo.
After a long hiatus, season two is now streaming. He'll be back to talk more after this short break.
And later, Justin Chang reviews Black Bag, the new spy thriller directed by Steven Soderbergh and starring Cate Blanchett and Michael Fassbender. This is Fresh Air.
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Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts. What you got your citizenship, what was your immigration status and how did you travel? Oh, my God.
That pre-getting my U.S. citizenship, it feels like a dream.
Like I don't even know how I did it. You had a refugee travel document that's issued.
They still do this to this day. It's only valid for a year, which is so difficult.
It has its own implications because some countries require at least six months validity to any passport or travel document. It takes four months to get.
So you're just waiting forever for it. And then when you and then nobody knows what it is.
Nobody has a clue what it is. The people who should know what it is don't know what it is.
Like the people working at the airlines, when you first check in, no idea what it is the people who should know what it is don't know what it is like the people working at the airlines when you first check in no idea what it is when you get to the immigration counter 90 plus percent of the immigration officers from all around the world look at this as an alien landing like what is this thing you know and they just freak out by it how did you get here why are you hear the questions start to ensue and then you realize how you know, and they just freak out by it. How did you get here? Why are you here? The questions start to ensue and then they realize how, you know, terrible they were to me for hours and hours until they got confirmation that this is a real thing that you can actually travel with, which makes it even more confusing is that it says this is not a passport the moment you open it, right? On the inside, it's big, bold letters.
It says, this is not a U.S. passport.
So it's like, well, what is this thing? And they would read that back to you. This is not a passport.
Yeah. I'm like, yeah, I know it's not a passport.
Yeah, exactly. I know exactly this is not a passport, but it's the refugee trial.
And I would have to become really knowledgeable about what it is, when it was issued, what rights I have attached to it. It was just a mess.
Just an absolute mess. So Moe the Salesman had to take over, right? Absolutely.
Absolutely. I mean, in some cases, I had to mislead them to enter the country.
In some cases, I would have to just completely mislead them or pretend like I don't know what they're talking about or just create some kind of situation or attempt to big time it.

Like, you know, you know, just you have to like, I had to assess the situation and each one was very different than the other.

And then I would assess the person and the immigration officer.

And then I had to, you know, come up with a quick plan in that moment to get in.

How would you big time it with a skeptical border agent or airline employee? You have to be super confident, you know? And so you have to exude this confidence and tell them exactly what they're doing. And once you tell them you're a comedian, if they understood what stand-up comedy was, it made things lighter naturally.
But then you just have to be like super direct. And then you guilt them like hey this is my livelihood i'm coming to work like this is what i do and this is where i'm going and would you do this to yourself like would you do this to people you know like what am i doing here like you would just guilt them into like basically let them see how racist this interaction is and then once they start having that their realization and they know that it's legal and they have to, they have to let you go through, they eventually let you go.
You would cite Geneva Conventions? I would. No, absolutely I would.
I would cite Geneva Conventions and this is my rights here. This is what it is according to the articles of 1948.
Yeah, absolutely I would. Yeah.
I mean, it's been a while, so I need a massive refresher, but, refresher, but it was one of those things that I had to do. And I would also add to it recommendation letters from the respective consulates.
I would carry those with me as well as references, so if they had any issues. I would get them before I left Houston.
I would get those recommendation letters. And I would have to work that out, right? I would have to call the Consulate General of Jordan at that time, like, hey, can you connect me with the Japanese consulate? Maybe he can write me a letter.
So when I get there, if I have any issues, I can show that to them, or I would do that with all those countries. It was like a pretty great hustle for a kid that was like 18, 19 years old to think that far ahead.
That's pretty insane. Who has those backup plans like that? And I learned that from my mom.
It took you, I think, 20 years roughly from when you got to Houston before you got your citizenship. Why did it take so long? It's just the asylee process, you know, dealing with the immigration process.
And there was a couple of snafus that nobody really saw coming. But the asylee immigrant process is not that easy.
So your family applied for asylum and you were waiting for a hearing and a decision for all those years. Absolutely, absolutely.
And more so, my dad passed away at another layer of complexity. So we had to like start over cause we didn't know who the lawyer was and it was just a whole situation.
And then by the time you get another attorney and you get another court date, uh, it takes a lot of time. It's not something that happens overnight.
And then when you get there, it has a whole nother layers to it. Like, Oh, what do you need this or this paperwork or that? How can you prove this and that? Like it takes a while.
And then by the time you do get your asylum, if you're lucky enough to get it, you're not deported. It takes you five years to get your green card, another five years to become a citizen.
It's just that's the way it is. That's the process.
So yeah, it takes time. You know, you traveled a lot.
And I happen to know that there's one occasion when you got upgraded to first class and seated next to Eric Trump of all people. Tell us that story.
Well, I mean, it wasn't just a random sitting next to him. It was right after his dad was elected president of the United States and no one from the Trump administration was speaking to the media.
And I didn't even know this because I was so engrossed in touring. I just flew in from Australia to New York.
New York, I'm going to Scotland, Glasgow. And I couldn't think.
I didn't even know. I was so exhausted.
I get there, and I sit next to him. I'm like, is this a joke? I thought this was a joke.
I'm like, am I being set up? Am I being recruited into the Illuminati and I don't know it? Like, what's happening? What's going on? And I just initially thought that the, you know, the ticketing agent had a sense of humor. She was just like, oh, Eric Trump is on my flight.
Let me see who's on standby here from first class. Oh, Mohammed Mustafa Hammer, upgrade you know like i thought that was potentially what was going on and i jokingly you know i gave him the business i was i wasn't holding back and i just uh told him i was like hey this muslim stuff has gotta just stop i don't know why it's happening you know you guys need to relax on that i took a picture with him and i you know had a caption it been a while now, but something along the lines like, don't worry guys, there's no Muslim ID cards.
And I didn't know it was going to become like a global incident. I landed six hours later in Glasgow and I have emails from every single publication and news outlets on planet earth.
I was like, holy what did I just do? When you gave him the business and said uh you know talked about the muslim ban how did he respond he was just like come on my dad he was like the funny thing is like uh you're like uh he was just like you know we do a lot of business in the middle east come on nobody's gonna do that you know like i have arab friends you know he did one of those. And then I told him, I was like, look, I've got your dad all figured out.
He knows the trigger words, right? For the media to cover him and create a spectacle, right? He knows those words. So he keeps the things that he can't touch.
He keeps touching them and saying them over and over again. And he knows he's going to dominate the news coverage.
That's what he does. Without even flinching, he goes, yep, that's exactly what he does.
Mo Amher stars in the series based on his life called Mo, which is in its second season on Netflix. We'll hear more after this short break.
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Find a shoe for every you at your DSW store or dsw.com. One of the interesting things about your career, I read that relatively early in your career, you got gigs performing before American troops in Europe and then in the Middle East, right? Yeah, Middle East, Japan, Korea, Guam, Bahrain, Germany, Italy, Sicily.
What kind of stuff did you do before that? Did you play upon your ethnic background? Yeah, no, it was important for me to be myself. This was like the first time I did those shows was pre-9-11.
It was April of 2001 was the first time I did those in Italy, Germany, and Sicily. I went with another comedian named Carolyn Picard who took me on the road with her.
And it was, yeah, it was one of those things of just doing stand-up, right? It wasn't a big deal. And then 9-11 happens five months later, and I had these shows booked in Japan, Korea, and Guam i was like man i have to go now it's a completely different reasoning now it's not just i'm not just doing stand-up comedy i'm giving these guys a face number one uh to to people that are essentially faceless in the media in television entertainment uh and then and then also for myself like i have to see if i can be myself all the time because if that is if that's taken away from me in stand-up then it's everything is gone i can't fake and be a different persona and different person like no i have to be myself that is the funniest people the most authentic people are are the best standing comedians of all time like i can can't not be myself.
It was a devastating time for me.

I was really scared that I might not have a career anymore. And little did I know it was actually empowering for me and for them as well.
Yeah, you know, it's been 21 years since then. And there's a generation of people who didn't experience that.
And people can forget the intensity of the – well, I mean anti-Arab and anti-Islam feeling which rippled through the population and I'm sure through service people that you performed for. Did you get blowback? I mean how did you deal with it? Very few.
I mean it wasn't really blowback. It was discomfort.
And I leaned into that discomfort because I knew it wasn't me. It has nothing to do with me.
And it has everything to do with their perception or lack of information. So I never took it hard.
I never took it to heart. I never was judgmental of them.
I made sure that I stand firm in who I am and let that performance, let the subject matter on stage and let the being funny is what's most important. Like you can't be already have some projections on you and then they like, oh, this guy sucks too.
Like you gotta be hilarious. That's the number one thing.
If you're funny, then it melts most ice, right? So how did you lean into this discomfort? What did that sound like on stage? Well, I ripped off the Band-Aid. I just would go up on stage.
When I say stage, I use that loosely because we're performing in war areas in Iraq. And I would just go up on this gravel stage in front of all these troops who are completely strapped and, you know, armed.
And I'd walk on and say, hey, guys, my name is Mo. It's actually short for Mom.
And surprise, bitches, today is the day. I thought that was a really good way to rip off the big day.
They would just laugh. They loved it, yeah.
They ate it up. Oh, my God, they ate it up.
And then I went into the storytelling and everything else, else and it became such a strong relationship and I had a lot of very earnest moments with a lot of soldiers and they would just walk up to me and be very emotional with me you know it was incredible experience that I would never take the right because I get a lot of judgment from even Muslims and Arabs like how dare you go over there and do this and they're killing us and this whole idea of that. I was like, well, you know, obviously I don't agree with war, period.
This is all just devastating. And the reasoning behind it is all false and it's bad.
And I just don't agree with it. And also, I think it's important to not shy away from it and be present in their life and to give them a new perspective.
It was like a win-win, win-win, win. And for me as well, somebody who fled that region to begin with was really cathartic as well for me.
It was like there's so many pluses to going there that I couldn't imagine not doing it. I'm so glad I did.
And the emotional moments that you had with soldiers, what kind of things did they say to you? It was some remorse. Some of them cried on my shoulders.
Some of them had a lot of respectful things to say. And some of them just acknowledging how wrong they were about the projections they had upon the region and the friends that they made that are local, that are Arab, that are Muslim, they found to be like really profound moments.
And since I came and performed there and we had moments where we could share with each other and have tea and whatever is afforded to us to have a drink together, it was a really potent and hyper real moment. I mean, it can't get any realer than that.
You know, in your Netflix special, Mohammed in Texas, you end with a really touching story of you that now that you got your American passport, you went and paid a visit to the village near Nablus where your family had come from. Was that your first time in Palestine? Yeah, that was my first time there, yeah.
Yeah, well, you know, what happens in the stand-up special is you see you describing some things about this visit, and we see footage from the documentary. And, you know, you talk about tender moments with your family, aunts and cousins, and then you see a mosque, and you go and pay a visit to this mosque in the middle of this town where you pray.
And then men in the mosque insist that you say the call to prayer, which is broadcast from a little sound system in the mosque, and the whole village hears it and knows that it's time for prayer. And you say, no, no, no, no, I can't do this.
And well, they say, well, don't you know the prayer? You say, well, don't you know the call? And you say, yes, of course I know the call, but I can't, I can't. They just absolutely insist that you agree to do it.
And so now I want, at this point, I want to pick up the story from the special where you're describing the moment when you have agreed to go and do the call for prayer. Let's listen.
And I walk up, I was like, cousin, be next to me because I'm nervous, make sure I don't mess up. So I do the call for prayer throughout the whole entire village and I'm overcome.
I was like, oh my God, this is amazing. What is this thing that's been written for me? I can't believe this happened.
Right as I'm thinking this, a man just crashes right into the message. Who did the call for prayer like this? And everybody sells me out.
This guy, this guy did the call for prayer. This guy did the call for prayer.
I was like, yo, forget y'all, man. Y'all forced me to do the call for prayer.
He's like, why'd you do it? I was like, I just told you they forced me to do the call for prayer. He goes, well, you just did it 10 minutes early, bro.
You did it 10 minutes early. I was like, that clock is flashing, man.
It's saying

it's time. He goes, that clock is 10 minutes ahead.
I was like, I don't know. That's a digital clock.
Push the little buttons and it'll fix the whole thing. Okay.
You want me to do it? And then he goes, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I've been in the village my entire life.
I know everyone in the village. Who are you? I've never seen you before.
Who is your father? I tell him who my father is. He goes, oh my God.

He goes, oh my God.

Your father is Mustafa?

I was like, yes, my father is Mustafa. He goes, you know who installed the sound system in this masjid? Your father did.
It was truly one of the most beautiful things I've ever experienced in my life And that's our guest Mo Amher from his Netflix comedy special Muhammad in Texas Does it still give you a chill to hear that? Yeah, man, it chokes me up I can't believe that happened, you know's crazy. It's absolutely mind-blowing.
And I meant it. Like, what is this thing that's written for me? It's wild.
Yeah. I mean, it's like the mosque is centuries old.
There's this thread pulling you back to it. Yeah.
And then to find out that, because my father was a telecommunications engineer, but more so than that, he was really familiar with technology of all sorts, from televisions to radios. And apparently, this is where I learned, like your father had a shop here in Buneen, and he would teach people what technology was, because nobody knew what it was.
And he made a joke. He's like, ah, before your dad, they used to plant antennas in the ground and pour water on them, hoping they'd get a signal, you know.

And he was just making an analogy of what my dad did for the town.

And he goes, yeah, your dad's the one who installed the sound system.

I was like, are you kidding me?

Wow.

Like, that is just mind-blowing.

Well, Mo Ammer, it's been fun.

Thanks so much for spending some time with us.

Oh, thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much.
I've had a great time. Mo Ammer recorded in 2022.
The second season of his Netflix series Mo is now streaming. Coming up, Justin Chang reviews Black Bag, the new spy thriller directed by Steven Soderbergh.
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Learn more at ucsd.edu slash research. In the new comic spy thriller Black Bag, Cate Blanchett and Michael Fassbender play a married couple who both work as British intelligence agents and who are drawn into a web of intrigue concerning a possible in-house mole.
Steven Soderbergh directed the film, which opens in theaters today. Our film critic Justin Chang has this review.
It feels like only yesterday that I was recommending a new movie from the director Steven Soderbergh and the screenwriter David Koepp. Actually, it was about two months ago.
The movie was Presence, a ghost story made with the thrift and ingenuity that Soderbergh has long been known for. He and Koepp have become ideal creative partners.
They're both prolific Hollywood veterans in their early 60s who know genre conventions inside out and who continue to play with those conventions in smart, stylish ways. Compared with Presence and their earlier thriller, Kimmy, Soderbergh and Kep's latest outing, Black Bag, is certainly a slicker, bigger-budget affair.
But it still has a breezy, light-fingered intelligence that feels consistent with their M.O. Cate Blanchett and Michael Fassbender star as Catherine and George, two brilliant, high-ranking operatives for Britain's National Cybersecurity Center, or NCSC.
They're also a longtime married couple, not an easy feat in a profession where monogamous commitment, especially between two agents, is virtually unheard of. It's fair to ask how much Catherine and George can really trust each other, given the insane levels of duplicity and compartmentalization their jobs require.
The title, Black Bag, is basically shorthand for classified intel, something Catherine and George say when they're going somewhere or doing something that they can't disclose. The plot is set in motion by one of those signature movie MacGuffins.
A deadly cyber weapon called Severus has fallen into the wrong hands. NCSC suspects one of its own, and so it enlists George, a master at sussing out lies,

to figure out who. George tells Catherine that they'll be hosting a dinner party for four of their colleagues, one of whom is the mole.
What he doesn't tell Catherine is that she herself

is a suspect. I understand this is not the casual dinner you prefer.
Yeah, it's an unusual group. Data scraper, two agents, and the in-house shrink.
What are we hunting this time? Severus. And you think one of them took it? Possibly.
It's been a while since we had a traitor to dinner. At least knowingly.
We shouldn't be discussing this. No, probably not.
I could have thought you'd start with polygraphs. I wanted to try something more elegant first.
What's on the menu? Fun and games. Will there be a mess to clean up? With any luck.
The four dinner guests are a compelling group, in part because they, too, are romantically paired off, which makes the

whole evening play a bit like a John le Carré rewrite of Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? Tom Burke plays Freddie, a longtime agent whose reputation for drinking and philandering makes him a volatile match for Clarissa, a smart young data expert played by Marisa Abella. Regé-Jean Page, of Bridgerton fame, plays an ambitious young agent named James, who's in a similarly stormy relationship with Dr.
Zoe Vaughn, the agency psychiatrist. She's in the mildly kinky position of knowing everyone's intimate secrets, some of them anyway.
Zoe is played by Naomi Harris, who was Moneypenny in the last three James Bond movies. That's not the only 007 tie-in.
Look out for Pierce Brosnan in a key supporting role as a glowering agency head. Black Bag has its share of Bond-style globetrotting intrigue.
There's a mysterious murder, a brief car explosion, and a nail-biter of a secret mission to Zurich. But at heart, it isn't really an action movie.
It's a marital dramedy masquerading as an espionage thriller. Or maybe it's the other way around.
Either way, it's a witty, sexy riff on themes of loyalty and betrayal, in relationships as well as on the geopolitical stage. The story unfolds as a series of teasingly intimate one-on-one conversations, in which secrets, lies, red herrings, and revelations are dished out.
It's been a while since I've seen an ensemble of actors this deliciously in sync. There's an almost promiscuous energy to the way the story keeps pairing the characters off, in new and surprising configurations.
Fassbender and Abella have a few chaste but scintillating scenes together, and there's an extraordinary sequence in which Catherine goes in for a therapy session with Zoe, a battle of wits for which both Blanchett and Harris are exceedingly well-equipped. In the end, though, it's Catherine and George who hold our attention the most.
They have been told that their marriage is their one major weakness, as it risks compromising them both.

And Blanchett and Fassbender, without so much as a hint of histrionics,

convey that even amid all the fun and games,

something real is very much at stake.

I don't think it gives away too much to say

that Black Bag is ultimately an ode to a happy marriage.

I'm talking about George and Catherine, of course, but after three terrific movies in a row, I'm also talking a little about Soderbergh and Kep. Justin Chang is a film critic at The New Yorker.
He reviewed Black Bag. On Monday's show, writer Clay Risen describes a political movement which destroyed the careers of thousands of teachers, civil servants, and artists whose beliefs or associations were deemed un-American.
His book, Red Scare, is about post-World War II America, but he says there's a through line connecting that era to our current political moment. I hope you can join us.
To keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews, follow us on Instagram at NPR Fresh Air. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller.
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