Mardi Gras With New Orleans Jazz Clarinetist Doreen Ketchens

Speaker 1 for NPR and the following message come from Indeed. Hiring, do it the right way with Indeed's sponsored jobs.
Claim a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com slash NPR.

Speaker 1 Terms and conditions apply.

Speaker 2 This is Fresh Air. I'm Tanya Mosley.
And if you're ever in the French Quarter in New Orleans, chances are you've spotted my guest today, clarinetist and vocalist Doreen Ketchens.

Speaker 2 For over 30 years, she's performed on the the corner of Royal and St. Peter Street four days a week, sometimes 12 hours a day, with her band, Doreen's Jazz New Orleans.

Speaker 2 Doreen Ketchens has many nicknames, Lady Louie, Queen Clarinet, and Miss Satchmo, nods to her passionate performances of Dixieland and traditional jazz, and for her ability to hit and hold high notes for long periods of time, like the great trumpeter Louis Armstrong.

Speaker 2 Ketchens has performed for four U.S. presidents, Bill Clinton, George H.W.
Bush, Ronald Reagan, and Jimmy Carter.

Speaker 2 And initially, she played classical clarinet before her late husband, Lawrence Ketchens, introduced her to jazz while the two were students at Loyola University.

Speaker 2 Lawrence was an accomplished musician in his own right, too.

Speaker 2 As part of Doreen's band, he played the tuba, valve trombone, drums, and piano, becoming a major attraction for his ability to play the sousaphone and drums at the same time.

Speaker 2 A few years ago, Ketchens fulfilled her dream of performing at the Kennedy Center. She's also played with orchestras around the world.
Doreen Ketchens, welcome to Fresh Air.

Speaker 3 Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 I want to offer my sincerest condolences on the loss of your husband Lawrence, who

Speaker 2 just died this past January. And I had the pleasure of going down the rabbit hole of watching your performances.

Speaker 2 And aside from being utterly captivated, I was also just taken by what felt like magic watching the two of you performing together. Are you still performing?

Speaker 3 Yep.

Speaker 3 I mean,

Speaker 3 I don't want to get haunted for the rest of my life, you know. And that's what he'd do.

Speaker 3 He used to always tell me, you know, you got to play, no matter what.

Speaker 3 So that's what I'm doing. And it's working.
It's working. I get strength from just

Speaker 3 thinking about the times he's been in the audience, you know, and

Speaker 3 giving me a nod, you know, one way or the other.

Speaker 2 It seemed like there was such a great love between the two of you, and your love language was the music.

Speaker 2 You all performed together for many decades and I think maybe a beautiful way to start our conversation is to actually hear a little bit of the two of you.

Speaker 2 I watched this video of you two performing for the New Orleans jazz station WWOZ

Speaker 2 and there you are playing the clarinet and singing And Lawrence was playing sousaphone and the drums at the same time. I don't actually think I've ever seen that in my I was thinking how.

Speaker 2 Can I play a little bit of that performance?

Speaker 3 Yes, please.

Speaker 2 The song is House of the Rising Sun.

Speaker 2 Here is

Speaker 2 the house

Speaker 2 and near

Speaker 2 a holy

Speaker 2 that all the world

Speaker 2 is in zone

Speaker 2 He's been

Speaker 2 the run

Speaker 2 of a many

Speaker 2 young lines.

Speaker 2 And now

Speaker 2 I

Speaker 2 know who

Speaker 2 I

Speaker 2 want

Speaker 2 my mother.

Speaker 2 That was my guest today.

Speaker 2 Doreen Ketchens and her late husband Lawrence playing House of the Rising Sun.

Speaker 2 Doreen,

Speaker 2 what a remarkable performance. I mean, as I mentioned, Lawrence is playing the drums and blowing into that sousaphone, which is a type of tuba at the same time.

Speaker 2 How did he figure out that he had that talent?

Speaker 3 We had drummer problems,

Speaker 3 and

Speaker 3 the drummer didn't show up, and he was tired of it, you know, and we were on the street.

Speaker 3 He said he wasn't that good anyway. I bet you I could play just as good as him and play play the tuba.

Speaker 3 And so he sat behind the drums and he took one stick in his left hand and uh he just started to do it. I mean, just like that.
And it was there.

Speaker 3 He can't play roles and stuff like that, so he does the inflections, you know what I mean? So um

Speaker 3 if you're just listening to the drummer, you know, there's a lot of space in there.

Speaker 3 But if you're listening to the group, then he fills in all of these spaces that you would normally hear the drummer do. It's j just amazing, you know.

Speaker 3 But uh necessity is the mother of invin of invention, and

Speaker 3 he invented the tuba drummer.

Speaker 2 One thing I noticed is that you've got a growl that, you know, it's not only present in your singing voice, but we also heard it while you were playing the clarinet. How do you do that?

Speaker 2 Like, you make your clarinet growl.

Speaker 3 People have asked me about that growl a lot. So I did it.
Actually, I did some videos on it on YouTube during the pandemic when I was going absolutely crazy because I couldn't go out and play.

Speaker 3 But there are two ways of doing a growl. There's one with the throat, you know,

Speaker 3 like that, like you're gargling. And there's another one with the tongue, like a Spanish R, you know.

Speaker 3 And both of them basically sound the same when I do them.

Speaker 3 But you pick one, you know, and I picked the Spanish R because I thought the transition to and from

Speaker 3 was smoother.

Speaker 3 So, and that's how I do it. I just,

Speaker 3 that's how I do it. That's it.

Speaker 2 How did you two start playing on the streets of the French Quarter?

Speaker 3 Well,

Speaker 3 we were away in Connecticut. We met at Loyola, and we had really good scholarships.
But,

Speaker 3 you know, when you get to be a junior, you know, well, tuition continuously goes up, whereas your scholarship stays the same.

Speaker 3 So in my junior year, you know, well, I was junior year, we asked for more money. And, you know, universities, they don't really invest in, you know, student juniors that are already there, you know.

Speaker 3 And it hurt my feelings, so I started applying to different places and got accepted into a few. But the University of Hartford, the Hart School of Music, you know, had the most money.
And

Speaker 3 I didn't realize the cost of living in Hartford was a whole lot more. But it still worked out okay.
And I went there and I stayed on campus for the first semester, didn't like it.

Speaker 3 So I found me a nice apartment off campus for the following semester. And I stayed stayed there, and it was good until they stole my car.

Speaker 3 I stopped in to take a nap, and when I came out, there was nothing there. My car was gone.
My clarinet was in my car, because I was, you know, clarinets were in my car because I was taking a nap.

Speaker 3 You know, I thought I'd just hop on back. But anyway, they eventually found my car.

Speaker 3 And the only reason they took everything out of there except the clarinet because the latch on the case came loose.

Speaker 3 and there were two clarinets in there and so when they picked it up all of the pieces just you know sprawled all over the trunk and so they didn't bother you know picking them up or nothing and so my clarinets were intact and which was cool because you know that was the biggest thing that was in the car.

Speaker 3 But once they stole my car and Lawrence was still here, he was going to Xavier at the time. And he said, Man, she can't be out there by herself.
She's too far and she's alone. I got to go.
And

Speaker 3 while we were there, he got us some work with this company called the Landerman Agency. And they threw parties, you know, corporate events and stuff like that.

Speaker 3 And, you know, it was nice that they had this exclusive New Orleans band. And so, you know, we worked that way.
And that's how I started practicing, basically, you know, just playing the music.

Speaker 3 I just played melodies in the beginning. But, um, after a while, you know, I started,

Speaker 3 you know, improvising just a tiny bit. And, uh, so we're in Connecticut and we're doing pretty good.
And then Lawrence's father dies.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 actually, his father was sick, and we went down and we got married

Speaker 3 there because, you know, he wanted his father to see him married. I mean, we were going to get married anyway, but we pushed it forward at that point.
And then his father died.

Speaker 3 And a month and a day later, my father died. And, you know, well, you don't know, but I'm the youngest of three and he's the youngest of three.
And he had two sisters and I had two brothers.

Speaker 3 And we were caretakers, you know what I mean? We're the ones that took care of, you know, our parents and stuff like that. So

Speaker 3 we didn't want to be so far away. We wanted to try and be here for as long as we could with our mothers, you know, as they transitioned from having partners to not having any at all.

Speaker 3 And so we came down and we started doing whatever we could, you know, to make ends meet.

Speaker 3 And we were walking in the French quarter one day and we saw some people playing on the street. And Lawrence said, hey, look, we could do that.
And I'm like, Man, you must be crazy.

Speaker 3 I've been to college. I'm not playing on the street.

Speaker 3 But love makes you do crazy things. And, you know, we went out there and we played.
And I was okay because we were together, you know, and

Speaker 3 got a little following. You know, people liked us.
We were young, cute, and all that stuff. And I know the music was pretty good.

Speaker 3 Actually, yeah, it's approaching four.

Speaker 3 You know, yeah.

Speaker 2 I love watching the videos of you and your band. And I was just thinking about that experience of

Speaker 2 seeing basically like a concert, these expert musicians

Speaker 2 in an accessible space when you're out on the street. But was it always so welcoming out there?

Speaker 2 I know it can be like notoriously competitive among musicians jockeying for space when you're a street musician.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah. I mean,

Speaker 3 but we, you know, sometimes we sleep on the the spot. I mean, you do what you have to do, you know, and it was the two of us, so it was easier to fight.

Speaker 3 So, you know, it was kind of set up for victory, you know, as far as, you know, as long as we weren't lazy.

Speaker 3 And, you know, you had to deal with the people who, for some reason, they moved to the French quarter and want quiet. I don't understand that at all.
But they called upon the people.

Speaker 2 Oh, you mean the people who live?

Speaker 3 Yeah, the people who live there.

Speaker 3 Yeah, man. You know, they say,

Speaker 3 I don't want to hear the music. And I'm like, bruh, you're in the French quarter.

Speaker 3 You know, what do you expect? You know?

Speaker 3 But, yeah, so, and then, you know, you got to deal with police who are having a bad day, you know, and stuff. So, yeah, it gets kind of challenging, but, you know, it's fun.

Speaker 3 And, you know, it was fun creating together. It was fun growing together.
It was fun.

Speaker 3 just making music and you know making people stop. I mean, because you know street shops are different.

Speaker 3 You You go out there and you set up, and most people think, you know, you're on drugs or something's wrong with you.

Speaker 3 And so they pass by you or decide they're going to pass by you, but then you start playing and they stop. And, you know, you're on the street.

Speaker 3 You got to make people stop and listen and then give you money. You know,

Speaker 3 we're extremely blessed because, you know, we always seem to find that combination that makes people say, oh my goodness. And they still do it.
And it's grand

Speaker 2 you know to watch you perform you really are you're like putting your whole body into it your eyes are closed and I mean I guess that's not unusual I mean when when you are like intensely focused on your instrument I've heard you say when you're playing

Speaker 2 you're constantly digging for more information within yourself. And I was like, wow, really taken by that, but also wonder

Speaker 2 more of what you mean.

Speaker 3 I mean, just like with anything else, you know, if you're

Speaker 3 a parent, you want to be a better parent than your parent, even though you had a great parent, you know, you know. But

Speaker 3 I just don't want to fall into a rut. People are growing up listening to what I'm doing, what I did,

Speaker 3 and, you know, I want to be above that. It's flattering.

Speaker 3 In some senses,

Speaker 3 you know, it's insulting because people steal your licks and everything else and they don't acknowledge it, you know.

Speaker 3 But it's still, you know, you want to stay ahead of the game. You want to be the best.

Speaker 3 Lewis Armstrong is like a big influence on me. And

Speaker 3 I have listened to, well, I thought, up until the other day, actually, I thought I listened to everything that was out there about Louis Armstrong. But there's always something new, you know.

Speaker 3 But I can hear the same song over that I've heard for hundreds of times and find something new inside of it. It's amazing.

Speaker 2 Is there a favorite Armstrong? I know that's like asking, is there a favorite child? But is there a favorite song of his that you love or you go back to often?

Speaker 3 Yeah, that is like...

Speaker 3 Asking about a child, you know what I mean? Because

Speaker 3 there's some that strike me in in certain ways and others that strike me in others you know um

Speaker 3 I mean when you say that you know La Vian Rose comes to mind and probably because my daughter hates it oh really why

Speaker 3 she says

Speaker 3 yeah you know but

Speaker 3 and then you know she got she got she fell in love and stuff like that and she like understood it you know and stuff like that but

Speaker 3 La Vian Rose comes to mind because you know he had a way of doing things you know sort of like Nat King Co, you know, you can hear Nat King Co singing French in Spanish.

Speaker 3 It ain't the best French in Spanish, you know, but it's great, you know, because he had that respect, you know, for it.

Speaker 3 And you can hear Louis do all kinds of different kinds of music, you know, and still know it's Louis, first note, you know. I mean,

Speaker 3 so I just aspire to

Speaker 3 just be great. And in order to be great, you gotta keep aspiring to be great, you know.

Speaker 2 Do you have your own take on that favorite, on your favorite Armstrong song? And if so, can you play a little bit of it? Not the whole thing, but just a bit.

Speaker 3 Oh, Will I Be on Rose? I set myself up for that, didn't I? Let me see.

Speaker 3 And when you speak,

Speaker 3 angels

Speaker 3 sing from above

Speaker 3 every day what it seems

Speaker 3 to turn into love songs.

Speaker 3 Give

Speaker 3 your heart and soul to me,

Speaker 3 and life will

Speaker 3 always be

Speaker 3 long

Speaker 3 behind.

Speaker 2 Thank you so much for that. I mean,

Speaker 2 you're nicknamed all of these names, you know, Lady Louie for a reason. And that's very clear some of the reasons why.
But I'm very curious to know, when did you first discover yourself in Armstrong?

Speaker 2 Do you remember when you first heard that within his music yourself?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I didn't realize it at all. I was just doing what I do.
I was just learning songs and playing songs. And

Speaker 3 somebody asked me, you know, when I was

Speaker 3 singing, you know, they said, how do you do that with those words? And I'm like, what are you talking about?

Speaker 3 And, you know, just Louis spoke like my dad, you know.

Speaker 3 And so without realizing it, you know, instead of saying word, I say void,

Speaker 3 you know, stuff like that, you know, because

Speaker 3 that's what I grew up with. You know, you change

Speaker 3 with society.

Speaker 3 You go to college and you say, well, that boy. And they're like, what the heck are you talking about?

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 3 it always comes back when I do that. And

Speaker 3 a lot of the melodies, the way he interpreted the melodies and stuff, I really, really, really liked it.

Speaker 3 And it appealed to me. So

Speaker 3 sometimes I start off like I learn the melody

Speaker 3 right from him. I'll do exactly what he does.

Speaker 3 But as, you know, as I play it, as I develop, you know, with the song, it becomes me.

Speaker 3 You know, I change a few things, you know, because he played a trumpet and I played a clarinet, you know, and he was a much older man. I was a much younger woman.

Speaker 3 And just other things that come into play that you don't expect, but they do because it's human nature, you know. So,

Speaker 3 yeah.

Speaker 3 I didn't realize it.

Speaker 3 But once I realized it, I embraced it and just roll with it, you know, and I'm still rolling with it.

Speaker 2 Our guest today is jazz clarinetist and vocalist Doreen Ketchens. We'll be right back after a short break.
I'm Tanya Mosley, and this is Fresh Air.

Speaker 1 Support for this podcast and the following message come from Built, where you can earn points on your monthly rent payment.

Speaker 1 But did you know they make it possible for you to get more outside of your home, too?

Speaker 1 By paying rent through Built, you earn flexible points that can be redeemed toward hundreds of hotels and airlines, a future rent payment, your next lift ride, and more.

Speaker 1 Earn points on rent and around your neighborhood wherever you call home by going to joinbuilt.com slash fresh.

Speaker 1 This message comes from LinkedIn, who knows how even one hiring nightmare can ruin your small business dreams.

Speaker 1 That's why LinkedIn Jobs' new AI assistant uses insights from over 1 billion professionals to create a personalized shortlist of the best applicants and even finds candidates you would have otherwise missed so you can hire right the first time.

Speaker 1 Start hiring with LinkedIn and post your job for free today at linkedin.com slash npr

Speaker 1 this message comes from LinkedIn, delivering candidates who rise above the rest.

Speaker 1 With an up-to-date view into shared connections, skills, and interests you won't find anywhere else, your next great hire is here.

Speaker 1 See why 86% of small businesses who post a job on LinkedIn get a qualified candidate within a day. Post a job for free at linkedin.com slash npr.
LinkedIn, your next great hire is here.

Speaker 4 Hi, this is Molly Sevinesper, digital producer at Fresh Air.

Speaker 6 And this is Terry Gross, host of the show.

Speaker 4 One of the things I do is write the weekly newsletter.

Speaker 6 And I'm a newsletter fan. I read it every Saturday after breakfast.
The newsletter includes all the week's shows, staff recommendations, and Molly picks timely highlights from the archive.

Speaker 6 It's a fun read.

Speaker 4 It's also the only place where we tell you what's coming up next week, an exclusive.

Speaker 6 So So subscribe at whyy.org slash freshair and look for an email from Molly every Saturday morning.

Speaker 2 Doreen,

Speaker 2 you're a fixture in the French quarter of New Orleans, but tell us a little bit more about the area that you grew up in.

Speaker 3 I grew up in the Tremay.

Speaker 3 And yeah, a lot of people... are familiar with that neighborhood because of the TV series.
And

Speaker 3 I grew up in the house that I was christened in, actually. It used to be a church.
It was a church. And I was christened in that very house.

Speaker 3 And then it became a whole bunch of other things. But yep, right in the middle.
And my parents had a sweet shop. And

Speaker 3 they named it after me. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yep. And that's a whole nother New Orleans traditional story in itself.

Speaker 2 Like naming stores and things after each other?

Speaker 3 Oh, no.

Speaker 3 See,

Speaker 3 I went to a nursery school called Marietta Bottery.

Speaker 3 And like any other institution, you know, people need to raise money. And so we have these innovative ways of raising money here in New Orleans.

Speaker 3 You know, I mean, you could sell things like world's finest chocolate, which everybody knew mama

Speaker 3 has at least tried once.

Speaker 3 And, you know, oranges, jams, and or other candies. But I wanted to be queen of my nursery school.
And every year they would have a fundraiser, which would be a Mardi Gras ball.

Speaker 3 And that Mardi Gras Ball

Speaker 3 you get to dress up, you know, and walk down the aisle. And, you know, there's a king and this

Speaker 3 queen in their court. And, you know, I just thought it was the coolest little thing.
I went there two years in a row.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 3 so it came time to raise the money. And what you do is you do things.

Speaker 3 So my mom, she decided to sell candy from the front room, you know, so she'd go and buy some wholesale candy and, you know, we were right down the street from school.

Speaker 3 So naturally, you know, kids would come and, you know, get on the doorstep and buy candy.

Speaker 2 You had to be pretty popular.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah, learn how to fight too.

Speaker 3 But so, you know, she was pretty good, you know, sell candy and cookies and stuff like that and

Speaker 3 raised some pretty good money and um turned it in. But when we turned it in, I wasn't wasn't queen.
I didn't have enough money to be queen. I was

Speaker 3 third maid.

Speaker 3 And it was cool. You know, I got to wear this big, beautiful yellow dress.

Speaker 3 But I wasn't queen. When the queen walked up, you know, the aisle, I was like, man,

Speaker 3 look at that. Man, I could be queen.
So we started early that next year. You know,

Speaker 3 of course, they never stopped coming to the door anyway.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 by the time it was time to turn in the money, we had a whole lot more money than we had the year before.

Speaker 3 But it was my last year there.

Speaker 3 I had basically aged out. So my mom, you know, she explained that to me.
I was four.

Speaker 3 And she said,

Speaker 3 now, you know, I know you want to be queen, but we could do, you know, one of two things.

Speaker 3 We could take all of this money. and turn it in and you can be queen.
You walk down that aisle as queen. And I'm like, yeah.

Speaker 3 She said, or we could take half the money and you probably won't be queen. But you could still walk down the aisle and you'll have some money saved.
You know,

Speaker 3 you start saving money and, you know, you grow up, you have more.

Speaker 3 I was four.

Speaker 3 So what I wanted to do was take all the money. and even add some more and be queen.
I mean, I just did, you know. But I looked at my mom and I know what I was supposed to say.

Speaker 3 Even though I was four, I knew what I was supposed to say.

Speaker 3 So I said, okay, we'll do that. And that's what we did.
And I still wound up being first maid.

Speaker 3 But I was okay with it because when the queen walked down the aisle this time, I'm like, yeah, I gave you that.

Speaker 3 But the kids kept coming to the door, you know, and there was a barbershop next door run by two twins. And they closed up.

Speaker 3 And, you know, my dad got the bright idea of, hey, people are coming to the door anyway. You can come to the shop, you know.

Speaker 3 So he inquired about, you know, renting a shop and got it. And we lived next door.
And we had a sweet shop right there.

Speaker 3 And my mom started, and that's why they named it Doreen's Sweet Shop because it all was, you know, brought upon. by me wanting to be a queen.

Speaker 2 I mean, what kinds of stuff did you all sell? You sold all the kinds of sweets that were a part of that contest, but what did what did the kids come there for?

Speaker 3 Oh, I mean, sugar. Yeah.
Sugar. That's what they came there for.
Cookies with sugar, candies with sugar, drinks with sugar.

Speaker 3 You know, on the way to school, my mom would get up early anyway, and she'd be open, and she'd open all day long and close at about nine o'clock at night.

Speaker 3 And she would be in there'cause my dad, you know, he worked for the Park Service. So, you know, he had a nine to five.

Speaker 3 but she was okay with it because it was hers you know and she was home and my mom would cook three meals a day every single day and run the shop I don't do that now I mean you know what I'm saying yeah I was really popular you know

Speaker 3 because you know my parents had a sweet child of course you know you get the negative influences too and you know people telling you you better bring me some candy or I'm gonna beat you up

Speaker 2 I mean because you were were you were you helping your mom make the candy too No, no, no.

Speaker 3 It was, it was, we didn't start making stuff until I got to like college.

Speaker 3 But before then, it was just, you know, just buying things wholesale, like chips and, you know, candies and cookies and stuff like that.

Speaker 3 And they'd come, you know, I was made to work in the store and didn't really like it that much, you know. So a typical kid, you know.

Speaker 2 Please tell the story of how the clarinet became your instrument because

Speaker 2 it's an infamous story that you tell that you started playing to get out of a pop quiz in elementary school.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's amazing.

Speaker 3 We were at my favorite subject, which was lunch.

Speaker 3 And there was a talk of a pop quiz. And it's like, they said we're going to have a pop quiz when we go back.
And I'm like, we ain't never had no pop quiz, you know.

Speaker 3 Well, of course, we got back up and there was a pop quiz. And I got the stink eye from so many people, you know.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 3 the quiz was as such, because there was like 30 kids in the classroom. And

Speaker 3 he'd go down the line, he'd ask one question, and if you got it right, you passed. If you got it wrong, you failed.
And I looked out the window and I said, oh God, you get me out of this.

Speaker 3 I'll do anything. And about two minutes later, the principal came on the loudspeaker.
And she said, anybody interested in joining the band, report to the band room immediately.

Speaker 3 And I'm like, oh, my goodness gracious. I raised my hand.
Of course, everybody else raised their hand too.

Speaker 3 But by God's grace, he picked me.

Speaker 3 And I went running down the hall, and I was so happy.

Speaker 3 And we went to the band room. And,

Speaker 3 you know, we spent all our time in that classroom. But when I got to the band room, it was a huge room.
And it was beautiful. They had music notes and

Speaker 3 pictures of instruments all over the walls and stuff like that. And I saw the flute and I was like, oh, wow, look at that

Speaker 3 I said I'm gonna play the flute you know the band director Mr.

Speaker 3 Bergolot you know he he started out you know introducing different instruments and saying different things and then he asked you know you know he went row by row asking what do you want to play well I already knew what I wanted to play because the flute was so sleek and so silver and so beautiful but The girl in front of me, she said, the flute.

Speaker 3 And the girl next to her, she said, the flute. And it went on and on about seven or nine times.

Speaker 3 And by the time he's getting close to me, I was like, Well, I don't want to play that now. It's a pretty common instrument, you know.
Right. And the clarinet was right next to it.

Speaker 3 So I said, I'll play that. And that's what I played with clarinet.

Speaker 3 Of course, they had about five or six other girls that said clarinet, because they were boy-girl instruments and girl instruments, you know. Right, right.

Speaker 3 But I was the first one, so I was all right with that. And it worked out pretty good.

Speaker 2 Let's take a short break. If you're just joining us, my guest is clarinetist and vocalist Doreen Ketchens.
We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is Fresh Air.

Speaker 5 This message comes from NPR sponsor CNN. Stream Anthony Bourdain, Parts Unknown, Prime Cuts Now, exclusively on the CNN app.

Speaker 5 These rarely seen, never-before-streamed episodes dig deep into the Parts Unknown archives with personal insights from Anthony Bourdain and rare behind-the-scenes interviews about each season.

Speaker 5 Anthony Bourdain, Parts Unknown, Prime Cuts, now streaming exclusively on the CNN app. Subscribe now at CNN.com/slash all access.
Available in the US only.

Speaker 1 This message comes from LinkedIn. Running a business means you wear a lot of hats.
Luckily, when it's time to put on your hiring hat, you can count on LinkedIn to make it easy.

Speaker 1 Post a job for free or pay to promote it and get three times more qualified candidates. 86% of small businesses find their next great hire in 24 hours.
Also, easily share your job with your network.

Speaker 1 Plus, manage everything all in one place. Post, match, hire, done.
Post your free job at linkedin.com slash npr. Terms and conditions apply.

Speaker 2 You're classically trained. When did jazz become your genre?

Speaker 3 Oh, that Lawrence.

Speaker 3 We were in college and he knocked on my practice practice room one day.

Speaker 3 I went to this performing arts school called NOCA, you know, New Orleans Center for Creative Arts. And I used to practice in this closet, the janitor's closet.

Speaker 3 And in the janitor's closet, you could hear the clarinet all through the school. But since it was a performing arts school, nobody complained, you know.

Speaker 3 And one day, Ellis Marcellus knocked on my door. And he said, hey, you sound pretty good on that.
You know,

Speaker 3 you ever thought about playing some jazz? And I'm like,

Speaker 3 no.

Speaker 3 And he said, well, why don't you listen to some jazz clarinets and see what you think? I'm like, okay. And Ellis Marcellus always did intimidate me.

Speaker 2 And for those who don't know, I mean, he's a legend, but

Speaker 2 was an acclaimed pianist and educator. And his sons, of course,

Speaker 2 are legends in jazz, too.

Speaker 3 Yeah. So.

Speaker 3 You know, I was like, he said, well, why don't you take a listen and, you know, let me know what you think. And I'm like, okay.
And see, I wasn't enthused because that's homework.

Speaker 3 In addition to everything else I had to do, now I got to go to the library because you can't just take out your phone and go and look for it. I got to go to the library.

Speaker 3 I got to check this out and all this other stuff.

Speaker 3 But I did because I knew he was coming back. And I listened and I heard a lot of clarinetists,

Speaker 3 George Lewis,

Speaker 3 Pete Fountain, and

Speaker 3 Benny Goodman, Artie Shaw. And I respected what they did, but we were different.

Speaker 3 I was concentrating more on tone and technique, and they were more concentrated on jamming, you know, bending the notes and not really concerned about tone and stuff like that, you know.

Speaker 3 So it wasn't my thing. And so, you know, a few days later, he knocked on the door again, and he said, well, what'd you think? And I was like, you know,

Speaker 3 it's really not my thing.

Speaker 3 I can appreciate what they're doing, but it's not my thing. And he said, well, you're entitled to your opinion.

Speaker 3 And as I tell you that, I could still see him saying that before he closed the door and I just I thought the world was gonna end because I just made Mr. Marcellus angry you know but

Speaker 3 he wasn't he wasn't angry he was just chilling you know and then I went to Loyola

Speaker 3 and just to cut the story short I was practicing in the practice room and you know there was a knock on the door And when I looked at the door, it was in a cubicle.

Speaker 3 So he could, you know, the doors were glass. This gorgeous, absolutely gorgeous dude dude was knocking on the door.

Speaker 3 And I'm like, may I help you? And he said, almost for a beatum. I kid you not.
He said, you know, you sound really good on that clarinet. You know, you ought to try playing some jazz.
And I was like,

Speaker 3 okay.

Speaker 3 So that's how I started playing the jazz.

Speaker 2 Is it possible for you to play us something to give us an example of the difference between the classical clarinet that you were really into before Lawrence and then what you ultimately came to do.

Speaker 3 Well, how about just

Speaker 3 Mary had a little lamb and I'll just give you an idea of him.

Speaker 3 Right? So, you know, straight tone, you know, fill the horn up with air and stuff like that. And, you know, when you go high.

Speaker 3 So, but when I play jazz, you know, I still consider those qualities, you know, the quality of the tone and the quality of the technique and stuff like that.

Speaker 3 But, you know, guys would do

Speaker 3 You know what I mean? Stuff like that, which was great in its own respect, you know, but just not, I mean, it's like taboo, you know, for somebody who, you know, played classical clarinet, you know.

Speaker 3 But, you know, by the grace of God, I figured out a way to combine the two

Speaker 3 because I wanted to hang with this tuba player, you know, this gorgeous tuba player. So I'd go something like,

Speaker 3 So, you know,

Speaker 2 there's this tradition in New Orleans that's associated with the celebration of the dead or recently departed. I mean, really, Mardi Gras is the ultimate celebration of death and renewal.
And

Speaker 2 you grew up seeing these second line parades happen and watching other loved ones and music being such a part of that grieving process.

Speaker 2 And I'm just thinking about that when I'm thinking about Lawrence and his legacy.

Speaker 3 I mean,

Speaker 3 we'd be in that same fifth grade class where I, you know, where we had to pop quiz and a second line would pass by.

Speaker 3 And sometimes they'd let us, you know, take a break and watch them through the window. And other times we just had to keep going, you know, while a second line passed.

Speaker 3 And we had a funeral home, you know,

Speaker 3 in my neighborhood, they had like four or five funeral homes. So there was always a jazz funeral.
And I thought we were the only ones in the world that did that up until I became an adult.

Speaker 3 And I started doing masterclasses and workshops, you know, around the world and started studying this stuff. But, you know, it's an old African tradition.
And those Africans were enslaved.

Speaker 3 they were spread all over the world. So you can find, you know, the celebration from this life to the other, you know, through some kind of music and song all over the world.

Speaker 3 You can find it in Japan, Germany, especially South America. You know, I think we do it the best, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 We've grown up with being able to express ourselves through music.

Speaker 3 Even if you didn't play an instrument, you could dance. You know, my dad never played an instrument as far as I know, but he was a member of a social aid and pleasure club.

Speaker 3 And those are the guys that dress up and dance, you know, in front of the band. So when Lawrence and I would would come to the living room to learn new songs, my dad knew all the songs.

Speaker 3 He'd call the titles to all the songs. So we grow up here.
The music is in us, you know, and it's all around us. You can't avoid it.

Speaker 3 It's not like in the French quarters where, you know, people with a whole lot of money can complain to the police about the music, you know, and the police could come down and actually ask you to stop in the hood, you know, somebody's playing music or practicing their trumpet or something like that.

Speaker 3 You can't call the police. Police are not going to even listen to you, you know.
But people don't anyway. You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 Lawrence used, his mom used to make him play outside. You know, go outside with your mom.
I'm going to hear all that.

Speaker 3 Right, right. So the neighborhood was used to hearing him play, and he was used to playing, you know, whether you liked it or not.
You know what I mean? So, yeah.

Speaker 2 Have you been out in the street performing since he passed?

Speaker 3 No, I haven't been out in the street yet. I mean, I played his memorial.
but it's Mardi Gras, and we wouldn't be out there anyway this time of the year. They're too crazy.
Around Mardi Gras time.

Speaker 3 And everybody's asking, Hey, when are you coming out? and all this stuff. And, you know, I say, Oh, the weekend after Mardi Gras.
And it'll probably be it. Yeah, I'd probably do it.
I have to.

Speaker 3 I mean, in the beginning,

Speaker 3 when he first passed, I couldn't even listen to our music without breaking down.

Speaker 3 And,

Speaker 3 you know, I thought about it, you know, when I was planning his memorial service.

Speaker 3 I said,

Speaker 3 You know, you play all of these funerals and second lines and stuff for strangers and friends,

Speaker 3 and you're not going to play for your husband. You know, it doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 3 So, I worked at it,

Speaker 3 and it's a state of mind.

Speaker 3 I gotta be,

Speaker 3 I gotta cross, you know, I gotta step to the right,

Speaker 3 or something like that. And then I'm okay,

Speaker 3 and I play,

Speaker 3 and I can play, and like he's here. I mean, I still feel his presence, I really do, and I thank God for that because

Speaker 3 I don't feel alone. And then

Speaker 3 our daughter's husband was deployed.

Speaker 3 So, you know, you could say she just happened to be home. But

Speaker 3 there's God.

Speaker 3 Because she's there and her son's there. And

Speaker 3 it's just

Speaker 3 beautiful, you know. And if she hadn't been there

Speaker 3 that morning when I woke up and he was gone, I would have been alone in that big old house, you know. I'd have still been all right.
I'm still impressed with

Speaker 3 how I handled everything, but I wasn't alone. You know, they were there.
And that's God.

Speaker 2 Doreen, let's take a short break. And if you're joining us, my guest is clarinetist and vocalist Doreen Ketchens.
We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is Fresh Air.

Speaker 5 This message comes from Charles Schwab. When it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices, like full-service wealth management and advice when you need it.

Speaker 5 You can also invest on your own and trade on Thinkorswim. Visit schwab.com to learn more.

Speaker 1 This message comes from Michelin. More than a tire company, Michelin is an innovation company.

Speaker 1 From connected mobility to clean materials, and now taking on one of the toughest mobility challenges, space.

Speaker 1 Developing an airless wheel for space exploration designed to withstand the extreme conditions at the moon's south pole.

Speaker 1 Michelin isn't just making exceptional tires, they're helping build a better future. Motion for life.
More at michelinman.com slash y-michelin slash innovation.

Speaker 1 This message comes from NPR sponsor eBay, who is home to millions of parts for your next project and free returns. If it doesn't fit or it isn't what you expected, eBay has your back.

Speaker 1 Eligible items only. Exclusions apply.
eBay, things people love.

Speaker 2 A very high moment that listeners might be familiar with is your performance in 2023 at the Kennedy Center. Ted Koppel and CBS Sunday Morning followed you for that big night.

Speaker 2 And I want to play a clip of you performing one of your legendary long notes.

Speaker 2 Let's listen.

Speaker 2 That was my guest, clarinetist and vocalist, Doreen Ketchens, performing at the Kennedy Center in 2023.

Speaker 2 My God, Doreen, have you ever or anyone ever counted how long the amount of time that you can keep a note?

Speaker 3 It varies. You know, there's a buggy driver who says she can hold her breath for two minutes.

Speaker 3 I don't know about all that. But when I was a kid and I was in junior high school, I used to hold my breath for nickels, you know,

Speaker 3 and get, you know, and and I made a lot of money, you know, doing it. So I have, um, you know, it was no problem putting it in the clarinet.

Speaker 3 Matter of fact, but it has to be a high note because they don't take that much wind. You know, it couldn't be a low note.

Speaker 3 I couldn't possibly do that on a low note note because it, you know, it takes too much wind.

Speaker 3 But with those high notes, sometimes, you know, instead of taking a breath at the end of it, then you know, I have to release.

Speaker 2 Doreen, this has been such a pleasure to talk with you, and I really appreciate you taking the time in the midst of your grief to share your beautiful love story and the beautiful music that the two of you all made together.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I want to end maybe by asking you about

Speaker 2 this song that is on your latest CD that was Lawrence's. can you tell us about it?

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 it's called West Africa, and

Speaker 3 it's absolutely wonderful.

Speaker 3 It was a joint collaboration, but I just came up with the melody and the words, which came really easily, you know, because of what Lawrence established in the piece already.

Speaker 3 And my daughter and I, we have it on loop, you know, we just play it all day, every day. And it's just absolutely wonderful, you know, and

Speaker 3 even listening to it, you know, I tear up because so much of him went into it and you can hear it. I mean,

Speaker 3 I can see him in the studio, you know, because he was supposed to be doing harmonies. And he said, you're going to think I'm crazy, but this is what I'm feeling.

Speaker 3 And it just went on and it's just beautiful, just beautiful.

Speaker 2 Doreen Ketchens, thank you so much.

Speaker 3 Thank you.

Speaker 2 That's Doreen Ketchens with her band, Doreen's Jazz New Orleans, from their album, Walking Through the Streets.

Speaker 2 Tomorrow on Fresh Air, two experts join us to explore the rapid dismantling of diversity, equity, and inclusion, commonly known as DEI, across public and private sectors.

Speaker 2 Once hailed as markers of social progress, conservative critics now portray DEI as emblematic of excessive woke culture. Join us.

Speaker 2 To keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews, follow us on Instagram at NPR Fresh Air.

Speaker 2 Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham.
Our managing producer is Sam Brigger. Today's senior producer is Teresa Madden.

Speaker 2 Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Roberta Shorrock, Anne-Marie Boldonado, Lauren Crinzel, Monique Nazareth, Thea Challener, Anna Bauman, and Joel Wolfram.

Speaker 2 Our digital media producer is Molly C. V.
Nesper. Susan Nakundi directed today's show.
With Terry Gross, I'm Tanya Mosley.

Speaker 5 This message comes from Vital Farms, who works with small American farms to bring you pastor-raised eggs. Farmer Tanner Pace shares a moment that brings him a sense of purpose.

Speaker 7 I think that when the barn doors open and the hens run to the paddocks, you can truly see what a happy hen really is.

Speaker 7 I love Pasteurais Eggs because you can see the work and the pride that the farmers have and have put into these eggs.

Speaker 5 To learn more about how Vital Farms farmers care for their hens, visit vitalfarms.com.

Speaker 1 Support for this podcast and the following message come from Humana. Your employees are your business's heartbeat.

Speaker 1 Humana offers dental, vision, life, and disability coverage with award-winning service and modern benefits. Learn more at humana.com/slash employer.
This message comes from Mattress Firm.

Speaker 1 Tired of losing sleep? Mattress Firm sleep experts can match you with a Temper-Pedic mattress built to absorb motion. Shop the Black Friday sale and save up to $500 on select Tempur-Pedic sets.

Speaker 1 Restrictions apply.