Super Fry: The Fight for the Golden Frite (encore)

Hey, guess what?

It's a leap year, which means you get an extra day this week, and so you deserve an extra episode of Gastropod.

In this case, it's also an extra French fry.

Who doesn't want an extra fry?

I certainly do.

And this Encore episode is all thanks to our friends at American Express.

Thanks for the fries, folks.

But if there's one thing we've learned about French fries, which actually we've learned a lot, but it's that you should never wait before eating them or listening to this episode.

Get in there.

They're beautiful golden color.

They are very pretty.

They look like what I expect them to look like.

They smell delicious.

They're amazing.

I can't keep on doing this.

I'm eating.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

That's a really good French fry.

Cynthia, here we are having fries in Belgium and you're calling them French.

I'm sorry, it's a habit.

This was a challenge.

I kept wanting to call them French fries.

But we were in Belgium.

In Bruges, to be precise.

And the issue, Cynthia, is that fries are not actually French.

Or at least, that's what the Belgians say.

They think fries are Belgian.

The French, though, they do also lay claim to fries, and sometimes we Americans like to pretend that we are the center of the fry universe, and a few politicians have even tried to get rid of the word French.

And back in the home of the English language, we don't even call them fries.

We call them chips.

So there.

We, of course, are Gastropod, the podcast that looks at food through the lens of science and history.

I'm Cynthia Graeber.

And I'm Nicola Twilley.

And this is our last episode of this season.

So we decided to give you a treat.

An episode all about one of the world's truly great culinary inventions, the fried potato stick.

Whatever you want to call it.

We take you right into the heart of the battle that continues to be waged over who owns the fry, who invented it, who perfected it, who reveres it the most.

And then we take you behind the scenes into another epic fight, the struggle for the perfect fry.

Can food scientists create a fry with the ultimate crispy shell and soft inside that also stays that way all the way to your home?

Plus, does Mayo really have the edge over a ketchup?

Biting words, but we're not afraid to wait in.

Gastropod is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network in partnership with Eater.

Support for this show comes from Pure Leaf Iced Tea.

When you find yourself in the afternoon slump, you need the right thing to make you bounce back.

You need Pure Leaf Iced Tea.

It's real brewed tea tea made in a variety of bold flavors with just the right amount of naturally occurring caffeine.

You're left feeling refreshed and revitalized so you can be ready to take on what's next.

The next time you need to hit the reset button, grab a Pure Leaf Iced Tea.

Time for a tea break?

Time for a Pure Leaf.

AI agents are getting pretty impressive.

You might not even realize you're listening to one right now.

We work 24-7 to resolve customer inquiries.

No hold music, no canned answers, no frustration.

Visit sierra.ai to learn more.

There are two fry museums in the world.

They're both in Belgium, which is only the size of Maryland.

And one of those fry museums is the size of a small regular museum, like a historical society.

And the other museum is the size of a very small apartment.

In fact, it is actually an Airbnb called Home Fried Home, and it's also a Fry's Micro Museum.

So we went to Belgium to visit these Fry Museums.

First we went to Bruges to the larger one.

It's called the Fried Museum.

And it is, in fact, the world's largest collection of fry-related stuff.

It's a project of a man called Eddie Van Bell.

He's a successful businessman, but as a hobby, he likes to collect things.

He started young.

On Sunday mornings, I would go to flea markets, to antique shops, basically in the beginning with my father.

He brought me there when I was 12.

So when I was 12, I bought my first lamp, let's say.

I was buying lots of little stuff,

jars, a gun sometimes, or a sword, or things like that, like some kids buy.

But that lamp really triggered something in Eddie.

He bought one small lamp, and then another, and then the next thing you know, it ballooned into 5,000 lamps.

And one day I was asking my wife and the youngest boy, what are you going to do with this collection the day I'm not there anymore?

And Kevi said, that's my son, oh, Papa, don't worry.

We'll sell it.

It'll bring a lot of money.

So I said, no, Kevy, I've been collecting for 40 years in those days already.

This is a very big collection.

It's probably and almost certainly the largest interior lamp collection in the world.

Eddie didn't want his precious lamp collection to be sold.

He also didn't want to donate it to another museum because he was afraid they wouldn't love it the way he does and all those lamps would just end up sitting in storage.

So he started his own museum just for lamps.

Then a few years later, Eddie's other son says, hey dad, there are 42 chocolate shops in Bruges, but there isn't any chocolate museum.

We should really start museum number two devoted to chocolate.

And Eddie's like, sure, great idea.

That was in 2004.

And then a couple of years later, Eddie accidentally bought another building.

He didn't really want it, but the owners kept calling him and eventually he named a really low price, thinking that would get them off his back, and they said yes.

And we were brainstorming, and someone says, what are you going to do there?

I said, well, we don't know, we don't know.

Beer is, but there's already two beer museums, chocolate, we already had a chocolate museum.

And someone says, look in your plate.

And there was fries and meat.

I said, not a meat museum.

No, no, I says.

Fries, fries, Belgian fries.

So I said, okay, that's maybe a good idea.

And so we went, in the evening, I went on the internet looking for a fry museum.

Nothing in Belgium, nothing in the world.

And that's when we decided to go for Belgian fries and make a museum out of it.

This is the story of the founding of the world's largest fry museum.

As it turns out, the world's smallest fry museum was also founded by accident.

Home Frit Home is just down the road in Brussels.

My name is Hug Henri.

I discovered the Frees universe around twenty years ago when I started to publish a web site called frit.be.

At this time the the project was to have funny information about Brussels, but as we choose the the name Fry Frit, a lot of people began to ask me a lot of questions about fries.

And then I discovered that there was a real universe around the fried potato piece.

And I began to collect objects, document interviews about fries.

That's how it began.

Two fry museums, two obsessed Belgians.

But why Belgium?

Aren't fries, you know, French?

French fries?

You make it sound so simple, Cynthia, like, oh, French fries?

They must be French.

But you know how this stuff goes.

These stories are never that straightforward.

The true origins of the fry are shrouded in mystery.

To start to clear up some of that mystery, first we have to get the potato to Europe from its original home in Peru.

The Spaniards were colonizing South America in the 1500s.

They encountered the potato.

They would bring back those potatoes, not necessarily to eat them, for instance, here in Bruges.

The first uses of those potatoes was for flowers.

And it's only at a later stage that that people started to really plant them to eat them.

Because you know in Europe and in France when the the potatoes arrived they were not always uh understood.

Some people think it was uh part of the devil even.

So we we had to not to fry the potato at first, but to fry the potato.

Of course, long before the potato arrived on the continent, Europeans had discovered the joys of frying things.

Yes, they were frying as everywhere in the world.

It's a way of cooking to fry, so they were frying fishes, for instance, different things.

And so when the potato shows up and when people finally realize it's great to eat and not just to look at, well, it's just another fun thing to dip into bubbling oil.

In Spain, one of the first who began to eat potatoes was Saint-Terese da Villa.

And as they had in Spain a real frying tradition, the best explanation about the the origin of the fried potato could be that at the end of the 16th century Saint Therese de Vila was the first to to fry potatoes.

Uh what?

What does Saint Teresa of Avila have to do with potatoes and frying them?

And a bigger question for me is who is Saint Teresa of Avila?

A quick Google search revealed that she's the patron saint of headache sufferers, but more importantly, she was a Spanish noblewoman who was a nun in the 1500s.

And legend has it that she grew potatoes in the grounds of her nunnery in Seville.

And, like Ug says, if you have a potato, why not fry it?

But these potatoes that may or may not have been fried in Spain were not French fries.

They were probably cooked in olive oil and they'd have been kind of soft, and they definitely weren't shaped like a stick.

No, of course, it was at this time slices or pieces of potatoes.

So it was not the fries as we know it.

For crispy, stick-shaped fries, we have to head north.

And this is where the great France versus Belgium battle begins.

Potatoes did likely get to Belgium before they got to France, because though there aren't many remnants of Spanish life there today, Belgium actually used to be part of what's called the Spanish Netherlands.

That's why we very early had chocolate here in the Flanders and specifically in Bruges, which was a harbor.

And also in the rest of Belgium, we had very early the potatoes, earlier than in France, anyway.

We know this from a book.

It's an account of travels in Latin America by Jean-Baptiste Labas.

It was published in 1724 and Eddie showed us a copy.

We have a book in the museum that is mentioning that it's very strange that in France, for instance, they still are eating buckwheat.

Yes, their food is still buckwheat and maron glacé.

What is it?

Chestnuts?

Chestnuts.

Thank you.

Wow.

So buckwheat and chestnut.

Whereas in Belgium, they already were eating potatoes.

So potatoes do seem to have gotten to Belgium before they got to France, but descriptions of fried potatoes, those show up first in France in the late 1700s and specifically on one bridge.

Well they claim it's a French fry

and they always talk about a fry shop on the Le Pont Neuf in Paris.

Just like in Spain, Eddie says these weren't potato sticks.

We also think is that maybe,

maybe in France they started to cut the potato in slices and fry the slices.

That's the text that you find, the oldest books that we have mention that.

So you take the potato, peel the potato, slice, and then you fry the slices.

At this time it was on the stick of potato.

It was also pieces and slices of potato fried.

So we had to wait a little bit before the real Belgian fries appeared.

There is of course vigorous debate on this matter.

We were standing firmly amongst the ranks of the Belgians at this point, so we had to be careful.

But as we looked at engravings of fried potato cellars from the 1800s in Oog's collection, we saw things that looked like potato sticks.

And even he admitted it was possible that the French might might have come up with the stick shape themselves.

There is an evolution.

First it was mainly slices, then other kind of pieces, and on some of those drawings, sometimes it could be sticks.

So maybe it's possible that the first sticks appeared in France.

So now we're starting to draw the battle lines here.

Potatoes show up in Belgium before France, point for the Belgians.

Fried potatoes show up in France before Belgium point to the French.

But the stick shape.

This is the tiebreaker.

And there's documentary evidence.

The engravings of the fry sellers on the Pont Neuf, but also the famous French chef Escoffier.

In 1903, he published a recipe for fried potatoes Pont Neuf style, and he clearly describes sticks.

So maybe this one goes to the French.

Oh, the Belgians are not surrendering that point.

Eddie has a story to tell, and it gives the invention of the stick shape to the Belgians more than a century earlier.

It's a not confirmed story, and unfortunately, the person who wrote it died two years before we opened the Fry Museum, which is which is a real pity.

I don't know about you, but I believe this story already.

He was a journalist and he wrote an article in a magazine and in that article he mentioned that in his house he had a kind of text document written by one of his ancestors.

So this journalist says that the document was a century old and in the document somehow it describes that in the late 1600s people who were living in southern Belgium in a valley by the river Meuse they regularly caught and fried small river fish.

And apparently during a certain number of years it was very, very cold, and the rivers were, say, frozen, and they couldn't fish.

So, what did they do?

They apparently took large potatoes, cut the potatoes in the shape of small fish, and started to fry that.

And that's apparently how today is explained how in Belgium we started to have Belgian fries.

But there is nobody saw it, nobody saw the document, disappeared, we don't don't know.

Maybe nobody got really interested in it.

And it's too late now.

The guy's dead.

There's no document.

I'm with you, Nikki.

This smells fishy.

Oh, God, Cynthia, please.

There's a slightly better documented story from the 1800s on the Belgian fairgrounds.

That's around the same time as those engravings of fry sellers in Paris.

And this one has to do with a guy, a real one, named Mr.

Frederick Krieger.

Who later changed his name to Mr.

Fritz for reasons that are apparently not fry-related.

Mr.

Krieger had a real success in the Belgian fairground and he was looking for a new way to

improve fried potatoes and an easy way to produce them and to sell more of them.

So he imagines to cut them in sticks.

The theory, if you can call it that, is that a thin stick-shaped potato cooks more quickly than the potato slices.

So if you're running a busy fried potato stall at the fair, sticks give you a competitive advantage.

Ta-da!

The invention of the fry, as we know it, the fried potato stick.

Fritz slash Krieger is German, and so Eddie isn't too keen to give him credit for inventing fries, and it's not clear that he invented a new method or instead that he was just a really great salesman.

But he did seem to have played a pretty major role in popularizing fries in Belgium.

Suddenly, more and more fry stands popped up around the country.

And these fairground stands, these are another reason why the Belgians claim to have invented the true fry.

Because the stick shape is not everything.

There's also how you cook it.

The trice frying is really, really important

to have good fries, to have this crispy outside and the soft inside.

A twice-cooked fry, that's what really made early Belgian fries a thing of beauty.

But that process might not have been invented to create the perfect fry.

It was probably just a practicality.

Because when the fritouristes

were doing fries, sometimes when there were not too much people, when it was not overcrowded in front of their fry stands, they used to fry them a first time at a lower temperature.

So they were ready to fry them definitely at a higher temperature when the people was coming.

This double frying, which today is the standard way of making a fry, the Belgians own that one.

Or so they claim, and we haven't found anything to prove them wrong.

Initially in France and in the other countries countries outside Belgium people would not bake twice.

They would only bake once.

Maybe the Belgians weren't the absolute first to cut potatoes into stick shapes and maybe they didn't invent double-fried potatoes.

Although maybe they were and maybe they did.

It's almost impossible to tell from the little evidence that remains.

But the point is, and we are going to hear more about Belgian fries, they were the first to really popularize these stick-shaped double-fried potato pieces.

So then my next question is, if most of the points here seem to be going to Belgium, why did I grow up calling them french fries?

We are going to get to the bottom of that, or at least have fun trying, but first we want to tell you about a couple of sponsors this episode.

Support for this show comes from OnePassword.

If you're an IT or security pro, managing devices, identities, and applications can feel overwhelming and risky.

Trellica by OnePassword helps conquer SaaS sprawl and shadow IT by discovering every app your team uses, managed or not.

Take the first step to better security for your team.

Learn more at onepassword.com slash podcast offer.

That's onepassword.com slash podcast offer.

All lowercase.

Support for this show comes from Pure Leaf Iced Tea.

You know that point in the afternoon when you just hit a wall?

You don't have time for self-care rituals or getting some fresh air, so maybe you grab a beverage to bring you back.

But somehow it doesn't do the trick, or it leaves you feeling even worse.

What you need is a quality break, a tea break.

And you can do that with Pure Leaf Iced Tea, real brewed tea made in a variety of bold and refreshing flavors with just the right amount of naturally occurring caffeine.

With a pure leaf iced tea in hand, you'll be left feeling refreshed and revitalized with a new motivation to take on what's next.

The next time you need to hit the reset button, grab a pure leaf iced tea.

Time for a tea break, time for a pure leaf.

The story of how French fries came to be called French turns out to be nearly as complicated as the story of who invented them.

There's a bunch of different theories.

Apparently, Thomas Jefferson also served potatoes fried in the French manner at her White House dinner somewhere around in 1800s.

And that is how French fries came to have their name.

Cantha Shelke is a food scientist we speak to frequently on Gastropod.

She's also the principal at Corvus Blue, a food science and research firm.

So Kantha told us one of the stories that people tell to explain how French fries got their name.

But if you look at the recipe Jefferson wrote down, he was serving round slices of potatoes fried in the French way, like the vendors on the Pont Neuf.

Throughout the 1800s, Americans ate sliced round potatoes fried in the French way.

It's even in a story by that master of the last-minute twist, the American author O.

Henry.

In 1894, a French detective in one of his stories says to an American who is visiting France, Our countries are great friends.

We have given you Lafayette and French fried potatoes.

But these potatoes, they're not French fries.

You make a big error.

You call them French fries.

And that's not the right way to do it.

You should call them Belgian fries.

Right.

The Belgians do not endorse the French fried potato Jefferson origin story.

Eddie and Oog told us a different story.

Well, during the First World War, when we had, luckily, the help of the American soldiers to come and help us in difficult circumstances, the soldiers, even when they were Flemish, were receiving their orders in French.

About 60% of the population of Belgium speak Flemish primarily, and about 40% speak French as their first language.

So the people leading the army was more French-speaking than, say, Flemish-speaking.

My father in fact, my grandfather, sorry, was in the trenches with a dictionary because he was Flemish, not speaking French, receiving orders in French and sometimes having to translate them.

And some Belgian French-speaking commanders

invite American commanders and they have a meal together, fries and meat.

And the Americans, apparently, that's what he's told, hear them speak French and they thought they were French people, so French fries.

And in fact, it was Flemish or Belgian people speaking French, and they should have called them Belgian fries.

So far, it does seem like Belgium is winning this argument.

But there's one other potential etymology of French fries, and it's the culinary meaning of the word French.

Because, as you know, to French in American argote means to cut in sticks.

I actually never heard that before.

When I hear to French, I think to French kiss.

But if you're Mortha Stewart, rather than Cynthia Graeber, to French does mean to cut veggies in thin strips, like to Julienne them.

Food writer Jeffrey Steingarten says the term French fries appeared in print first in 1918.

That date.

Maybe that ties the term to Eddie's story about the war?

But also, maybe not.

Whatever.

I'm never going to be able to call it anything but a French fry.

The French have won that battle.

Sorry, Eddie.

But the Belgians certainly win when it comes to fry culture.

Yes, because what is important is that the the potato fried sticks.

It's more than eating.

There is a a real culture around it.

What we called culture fritkote.

And culture fritkot in the summer of 2017

has been recognized here in Belgium as immaterial patrimoin by all the authorities here in Belgium.

In English, that's what's known as intangible cultural heritage.

And fritkot is Flemish for fry stand.

Basically anywhere.

a shack, a van, a wagon, a hole in the wall, anywhere someone set up and sold paper cones filled with fries is a fritkot.

You had fritkots everywhere, in every town, every village.

You found a fritkot in every square, near the train station,

every place is where you had people, and even the churches.

I have a collection of old pictures and postcards where you see churches, and often there is a little fritkot

on the side of the church.

It was the Sunday fries.

May the fries be with you.

It was like this on Sunday when you went to church.

It's communion wafer, for sure.

Going to the fritkot was a regular tradition for a lot of people.

Eddie went every week.

I remember when I was a kid, which is not 150 years, although it's a few years.

Usually, what we would do on a Sunday, we leave early in the morning, come back in the evening, and spend the day somewhere on a lake or on a river, picnic, and things like that.

And when we would come back, we would always have fries with Mayones.

Always.

So my father would stop at a shop on the road and buy the fries and we would have them in the car and that was really a tradition.

People also used to run out to the fritkart to get fries to serve at home.

There was a tradition in the village mostly.

It was to go to the fry stands with a big plate and so you had chicken at home or anything else or moul.

Which are mussels.

And you gave your big plate to the fritourist who put real good Belgian fries in it, and then you were running to go back home to eat them with your chicken or moul or anything.

Today you'll find Fritkot in Belgian stories, in movies, even in lots of songs.

Just in case all this fry culture doesn't give the ultimate win to the Belgians, Eddie told us another point in their favor.

In Belgium we have maybe two records.

I think we have the highest production per capita of potatoes of the world.

Not the highest production of potatoes, but if you work it out per capita, it's the highest.

But what we yes have as highest is the transformation of potatoes into puree fries and things like that and chips.

That is in Belgium the industry is producing the highest amount of the world.

So, there we go.

Belgium is clearly the center of the fry universe.

I mean, there's a freak cot on every corner, right?

Unfortunately, not

because mainly during the 80s, a lot of those

fry stands disappeared.

In part, people just stopped eating as many fries as they used to.

But also, because some people started to say, we don't like that fry shop there in the middle of the market, or next to the train station, or on that parking along the road.

It's not nice, it's not well built.

Of course these people had not a lot of money.

They would build most of the time their own shop with pieces of wood and things like that.

And so they were not looking very nice, but they were very typical.

Both Ug and Eddie are sad about this.

They think something important is lost when a freet cot shuts up shop.

I think the big advantage of having lots of fry shops was that they were a place for social contact, but also a place where people could observe.

And they were seeing a lot.

Shops that were, say, near a train station and they would be open until 11 or 12, they would see much more than people living in their closed house.

So they saw lots of things happening and they could then also intervene or inform maybe the police sometimes, specifically when they were on marketplaces.

And that has disappeared now.

For Ug, what's been lost is less the neighborhood watch, but rather it's something that's central to his identity as a Belgian.

It was also the reflection of the way we like to be in Belgium, open

to the people.

And if you are

a factory worker or a CEO, that's not a problem.

You like the same thing, the fries.

It's a lovely sentiment, but let's not get too emotional here.

There are still a lot of fries in Freak Cott in Belgium.

In fact, for every Belgian, there are 11 times as many fry stands as we have McDonald's per person here in America.

Belgians eat 165 pounds of fries per person each year.

That's at least three times more than Americans.

And Ug sees this as a great reason for all of us to visit his country.

What I like with the fries is

that you may export good beer, you may export good chocolate, but you cannot export fries because the best place to eat fries is in Belgium at the fries stand.

So, this is really important.

It's also a kind of

invitation to people to come to Belgium.

Fries, togetherness, probably world peace or at least a vacation in Belgium.

It's all happiness and joy.

Unless you take my last fries.

She walks towards a table, purses her lips.

Mind if I hang at your table and sit?

And I'm like, no problem, I'm a nice guy.

And that's when she did it.

Ate my last

Obviously, if you haven't figured this out yet, basically everyone thinks that fries are totally, ridiculously delicious.

And if you don't agree with that statement, well, I don't know what's wrong with you.

The deliciousness of fries is scientific fact.

And in fact, we're about to talk to some scientists about it.

But first, another word from our sponsors:

you're basking on a beach in the Bahamas.

Now, you're journeying through the jade forests of Japan.

Now you're there for your alma mater's epic win.

And now you're awake.

Womp, womp.

Which means it was all a dream.

But with millions of incredible deals on Priceline, those travel dreams can be a reality.

Download the Priceline app today and you can save up to 60% off hotels and up to 50% off lights.

So don't just dream about that trip.

Book it with Priceline.

Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start?

Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to.

Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin, or what that clunking sound from your dryer is?

With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro.

You just have to hire one.

You can hire top-rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews all on the app.

Download today.

We love our fries.

Some people like it crispy.

Some people like it soft and

lightly crispy on the outside, some people like it absolutely burnt.

And this has been brought to you by food science and technology.

Yes, it's true.

We can thank science for the fact that you can get good fries almost anywhere.

Maybe not the world's best, but decent ones.

So about 50, 60 years ago, it would be not unusual to walk into a restaurant and eat a French fry that was soggy, doughy, knee-not so crisp, limp, or very hard.

You don't get that today.

Practically every restaurant has French fries that are crisp and are deliciously and sensually soft inside.

So how have scientists like Cantha won the war against sogginess, limpness, and mealiness to bring us the perfect fry?

This is another battle.

Honestly, it's a battle I care even more about than the Franco-Belgian skirmish over the fry's origin.

This one has real-world consequences.

French fries are a fairly simple product.

So the majority of the product is the potato that you start with.

Deborah Dial is the vice president of innovation at Lamb Weston.

It's one of the top companies in America that provides frozen french fries to restaurants and stores.

In Belgium, unsurprisingly, they have firm opinions about the correct potato for perfect fries.

What we

think is the best because of consistency and taste is what is called a binkie.

Oh, that's a delicious potato.

That's got like a yellow flesh and it's a little bit more buttery and creamy than the Russet Burbank, but it doesn't grow very well in U.S.

soils.

So, again, it depends on the local taste, too, because they prefer that shorter yellow-fleshed potato, whereas in the U.S., we prefer a longer and white-fleshed potato.

Canther told us there's also a new potato on the block in America, the Annabelle, which also makes great French fries, and which is the daughter of a potato that is named after me, the Nicola.

Yes, that potato was bred as a special tribute to you, of course, but so that's step one, the perfect type of potato.

Next up, find the perfect individual potatoes.

So the potato must not be too wet or too dry, which means it should be between 12 to 14%

dry starch matter.

There's more water involved in cutting potatoes, a water cannon, to be precise.

The guy who founded Lamb Weston, Deb's company, he invented this water cannon cutting method.

He used a fire hose to shoot the potatoes at a grid of sharpened steel.

Think about a tennis racket, and if a tennis racket were knives, think about blasting a potato through a tennis racket and how that's how you cut the strips of french fries.

So that was invented by the founder of our company back in the 60s, and it's still the way French fries are cut today.

And the most popular shape for those perfect cuts?

Oh, I think it's the quarter-inch shoestring, the classic French fry.

The Belgians, as we've hinted, like their fries a little chubbier and shorter.

And the Brits like them full-on fat.

We like a thick chip.

But no matter what type of fry you might want, Lamb Weston's got it.

You know, you wouldn't believe it, but there's over 2,000 types of French fries that we can make.

And we have made over the years.

So you've got like a straight cut and a crinkle cut and a wedge and a crisp cut and a curly fry.

But not all fry shapes are successful.

Deb told us about some of the fries that failed.

Oh, we would have it maybe like a sh a shape that looks like a lightning bolt.

That was kind of a fun one.

We did a shape that had different

like a puzzle piece so you could play with your food and you can build puzzles with the different shapes of French fries.

That we thought that was really fun, but that didn't really take off either.

Eddie told us there were some shapes invented in Belgium that didn't really go anywhere either.

One was a round fry, not a big hit.

This one was a better invention.

It was a fry with six sides.

But apparently nobody wanted to change the fries from square to six angles and so he lost a lot of money.

We tried to obtain some of his equipment, but he doesn't want to talk about the fry anymore.

Oof, the fry-shaped graveyard is a haunted place.

But for the shapes that did live to see another day, the next step is a quick blanche, and then the important part, frying.

You fry the best chips or fries in tallow.

Tallow is beef fat.

Taste-wise and also crispiness.

The crispiness is better with tallow than with any other type of oil or fat.

And ideally for the taste, and again you will not like it maybe, it's two-thirds tallow, one-third horse fat.

But we don't do that because we have too many visitors who would not like to have fries

fried in horse fat.

Yeah, that would not go down so well in the US of A.

Here we tend to fry our potatoes in vegetable oils with no flavor.

But you probably remember that the critical Belgian innovation is the double fry.

This technique might have been invented by accident, but it is genius.

The first frying, that's for the inside.

You need to heat up all the water that's in the potato flash to boiling point so it tries to boil off.

And it cooks the inside of the fry.

At this point, the potato is cooked, the outside is just a light golden color, and then you cool it down.

And the second fry, that's all about getting the absolutely perfect exterior.

To get that beautiful amber gold color, it's it's best to fry it twice.

It stays crispy, doesn't bend, doesn't become soggy or limp, and the potatoes are ready to be consumed.

Salted or not?

Salted for me, please.

But actually, these days, there's often a long gap between the first frying and the second frying.

For most fries in America, the first frying takes place at the factory, and then the fry is frozen and shipped, and the second frying happens at the restaurant.

The food companies that make those frozen potatoes, like Lamb Weston, they figured out the perfect temperatures and timing for both the frying and the freezing, and the perfect coating, all to make sure the fry doesn't get mushy before it reaches its second dip in oil.

So, in theory, all fries should be utterly perfect.

But you and I, and everyone, we've all experienced the sadness that is a less than perfect fry.

Even restaurants that buy the same basic frozen fries from Lamb Weston, the fries they end up serving can be quite different.

So, when I worked for a company that should go unknown that also owned a very large fast food restaurant whose french fries were not as popular as the competing fast food restaurant that everybody said had the best French fries, you can put in whatever names you want to, I cannot tell you that.

We're going to go out on a limb and guess that Cantha was working for Wendy's and that they were investigating McDonald's, but that's just a guess.

Don't sue us.

But as part of RD, I actually used to drive a van that was fitted in the back with a couple of food scientists and all the equipment that we could have.

And we would drive up to the competing fast food restaurant and order five or six large fries and then drive out into the parking lot and test them to see if our French fries even compared with them.

Cantha would be sitting in the back of the van with an instrument called a texture analyzer, which does exactly what it sounds like.

I can even today look at the curve, a texture analyzer curve of a French fry and tell you exactly which fry it is and which potato it is.

We could never get it to be as crispy and as fluffy as our competition.

Some secrets are still secret.

It's true.

Even though the basic formula for a perfect fry was figured out decades ago, fry scientists like Cantha and like Deb still have a job.

One of the biggest challenges we have lately is the growth of delivery.

And, you know, using Uber to order your french fries and your burger creates a more challenging environment for fries.

All a a restaurant had to worry about before was whether or not your fries would still be crispy when they got to your table.

Now they have to worry about whether the fries stay crispy for the time it takes to load up the car and drive to your apartment.

This anxiety, it all comes down to water.

Everything in fry science eventually comes back to water.

Even after you fry a fry, there's still water left in the creamy, potatoe inside.

And hopefully your fries are hot, so that water continues to escape as steam.

And when you make fresh french fries and you put them in a package and you close like a clamshell, a plastic clamshell, you create like a little sauna in there.

Which, you know, is some delightful self-care and me time for the fries, no doubt.

But it also means they get soggy really fast, which is not a good outcome for the fry eater.

Deb and her colleagues are now battling steam.

They've designed a whole new package just for delivery so that the fries aren't sweating in the sauna.

So you have like a chimney effect where the moisture will exit and not make the fries soggy, soggy, but you still maintain enough heat because you don't want the fries to be cold either.

The packaging is one piece, but Deb and her team also have a super top-secret technique they figured out to help keep the moisture locked up in the fry.

They experimented with a bunch of different starch molecules to design a special coating for the fries.

So you're really sort of making a glass.

So we play with our formulation and the amount of polymers, we call them polymers, but they're just different blends of starches that melt together when you fry them, and then they form that really thin glass.

It's not really glass, not like your window pane, but it is a thin, strong barrier, like a super thin layer of ice that first forms on water.

And the glassier it is, the better it resists the moisture migration.

But the glass can't be too thick, or the fry is tough.

Deb and our colleagues have solved this problem, and they now have a fry that can stay crispy for 30 minutes.

Pretty amazing.

It took us over two years to figure this out.

We even have somebody on our team that became an Uber Eats driver just to understand that whole experience and the challenges that Uber drivers have when they have to deliver French fries.

So thanks to science and Belgians, you have your perfect crispy fry.

And then, horror, you dunk it in wet sauce.

Madness.

But it's true, fries are great on their own, but really, they're a vehicle for condiments.

At the Fry Museum in Bruges, the cafe serves only fries.

But when it comes to condiments, they have far more options.

How many many sauces do you have?

We have plenty of sauces.

We have cocktail sauce, curry sauce, that's sweet sour,

garlic, pepper, mustard, plain mustard, curry ketchup, andalouse.

Samurai is really spicy, it's with chili and sambal in it.

Then we have the tartar, it's a mayonnaise herbs.

I know, I know.

You are thinking, what?

People dip their fries in sweet and sour sauce.

Are they barbarians?

But this is an area where reasonable people do differ.

In England, where I grew up, we like to put malt vinegar on our chips and it tastes amazing.

I do love the taste of vinegar on chips, but I feel like it makes the fries soggy pretty quickly.

I think we breads just have a higher tolerance for squidge in our fries.

Hence the fact we also prefer them fatter and more potatoey.

Here in America, our fry religion insists on ketchup.

I like regular ketchup fine, but I'm particularly obsessed with the ketchup at Goldie's in Philadelphia.

It's kind of spicy and I think it's made with with a mango pickle.

Go there, get the fries with schwarma spice, and get as much of their ketchup as you can.

I'm with you, Cynthia, but I promise there are some of you listening who are screaming in horror right now.

Fry dipping habits are deeply tribal.

Just think of pulp fiction.

You know what they put on french fries and holland instead of ketchup?

That's how the Belgians eat their fries, and as we've now established, they invented the twice-fried potato stick.

And dipping fries and mayonnaise is, in fact, also delicious.

The Belgians, they win.

Nikki, I have to say, I've worked so hard this episode to call this particular food just a fry out of respect for our Belgian friends and their fry expertise.

After this episode, though, I'll probably return to my ingrained habit and call them french fries.

And that, Cynthia, is because you are a cheese-eating surrender monkey, I believe.

That's the technical term.

In protest to France's opposition to a U.S.

war on Iraq, the U.S.

Congress's cafeteria has changed french fries and French toast to freedom fries and freedom toast.

Afterwards, the congressmen were so pleased with themselves, they all started freedom kissing each other.

In a related story, in France, American cheese is now referred to as idiot cheese.

Ah, the freedom fry era of 2003.

Good times.

We wanted to talk to you about this freedom fries thing.

Is that true?

Did they take off French fries from the menu in the congressional cafeteria?

I mean, you know, we got a lot of problems, right?

And the Republican leadership brings up freedom fries.

Oh, this was a Republican leadership issue?

Yeah, this was the Republican leader.

This is what they do.

I mean.

That was Jon Stewart talking to Dick Gephard, who was the Democrat minority leader of the House at the time.

And yes, this name change really happened because Republicans decided it was an effective way to protest France's opposition to the Anglo-American invasion of Iraq.

Leaving politics and the war aside, this particular effort didn't take.

And you know, folks, speaking of the French, normally when I am this depressed, I binge on some good old American comfort food.

Some hot dog pie,

maybe a baseball sandwich, and always on the side, a heaping order of freedom fries.

You can feel the liberty coat your arteries.

But

not anymore, I guess, because a few weeks ago, the cafeteria at the U.S.

Capitol went back to calling them French fries.

But they're Belgian!

Thanks this episode to Eddie Van Bell at the Fried Museum in Bruges and Hug Henri at Home Freet Home in Brussels.

We have photos and links on our website, gastropod.com.

Thanks also to Deb Dial of Lamb Weston and Campa Shalke of Corvus Blue.

Also links on our website gastropod.com.

Our fabulous intern Emily Pontecorvo helped us find all the fun songs and TV clips this episode.

And we apologize in advance for all the fries you now need to go consume.

Enjoy.

We'll be back in a week with a brand new episode.

Till then.

This month on Explain It to Me, we're talking about all things wellness.

We spend nearly $2 trillion on things that are supposed to make us well.

Collagen smoothies and cold plunges, Pilates classes and fitness trackers.

But what does it actually mean to be well?

Why do we want that so badly?

And is all this money really making us healthier and happier?

That's this month on Explain It To Me, presented by Pureleaf.

Support for this show comes from Saks 5th Avenue.

Saks 5th Avenue makes it easy to shop for your personal style.

It's fall, and it's time to invest in new arrivals you'll want to wear again and again.

like a relaxed Prada blazer and Gucci loafers that are great for work or a weekend rendezvous.

Saks makes shopping feel totally customized to you, whether that's in person with their in-store stylists or online at Saks.com where they show you only what you like to shop.

They'll even let you know when arrivals from your favorite designers are in, or when an item you've been eyeing is back in stock.

For a personalized, easy shopping experience, head to Saks Fifth Avenue for the best fall arrivals and style inspiration.