Souring on Sweet: The Great Soda Wars, Part 1

Speaker 2 With a Spark Cash Plus card from Capital One, you earn unlimited 2% cash back on every purchase and you get big purchasing power so your business can spend more and earn more.

Speaker 2 Capital One, what's in your wallet?

Speaker 1 Find out more at capital one.com/slash Spark Cash Plus Terms Apply.

Speaker 1 With a Spark Cash Plus card from Capital One, you you earn unlimited 2% cash back on every purchase.

Speaker 2 And you get big purchasing power.

Speaker 1 So your business can spend more and earn more.

Speaker 2 Capital One, what's in your wallet?

Speaker 1 Find out more at capital1.com slash spark cash plus terms apply.

Speaker 4 At least half the kids start their day with a Coke and a pack of hot fries. Like that's breakfast.
And then throughout the day, drinking soda like it's water.

Speaker 4 Those empty calories have an enormous cumulative effect on our society. We're paying the price in the medical bills and you know all of the kind of health outcomes in the community.

Speaker 5 Well this is a classic socialist government.

Speaker 5 Stick your hand in a citizen's pocket while they're trying to refine a refreshing drink, pull the money out, and then condemn the citizen for drinking sugar and trying to save their life by saving them from sugar.

Speaker 6 That's a roller coaster.

Speaker 7 It's the pro-soda tax, anti-soda tax, roller coaster ride.

Speaker 6 Some people think soda taxes are absolutely necessary. Some people think they're basically the devil's handiwork.

Speaker 7 That roller coaster ride, that is basically today's fun-filled Gastropod episode. And actually, it's the next episode, too.
That's right, we have got a special two-part series for you.

Speaker 7 The first two-parter we've ever done.

Speaker 6 We, of course, are Gastropod, the podcast that looks at food through the lens of science and history. I'm Cynthia Graeber.

Speaker 7 And I'm Nicola Twilley.

Speaker 7 And for the next two episodes, we are going to be exploring our fatal attraction to sweetness and one of the best, or maybe depending on who you listen to, the worst, tools we have for cutting our sugar consumption.

Speaker 7 Soda taxes.

Speaker 6 First, what's the science behind why we love that delicious sweet taste? And the science behind why kids crave desserts that seem actually sickly sweet to us adults.

Speaker 7 And if sugar tastes so good, can it really be so bad? What is the science on how our sugar consumption affects our health?

Speaker 6 And why might soda be the worst form of sugar delivery of all?

Speaker 7 Plus, if the goal is to cut sugar consumption, are soda taxes really the best way to do it?

Speaker 7 It's a huge, huge story filled with fascinating science, forgotten history, and even a little good old-fashioned blackmail. Today's episode is part one of the great sugar-sweetened beverage wars.

Speaker 6 We'd like to thank the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation program for the public understanding of science, technology, and economics for their support of Gastropod and of this episode.

Speaker 7 Today, the average American eats a lot of sugar. Exactly how much is a little tricky to pin down.
Even different government departments publish different numbers.

Speaker 6 But overall, we eat way more sugar today, per day, per year, than we did in the past.

Speaker 6 A couple centuries ago, we ate only two pounds of sugar a year, and now we on average are likely eating that much in only two weeks.

Speaker 7 Part of the reason we eat so much sugar is that we love it. We're set up biologically to love it.

Speaker 8 It's pleasure, and we are hedonic animals that like pleasure. And one sees that at a very early age, even in the child.
You really don't have to learn to like sweets. It's there.

Speaker 6 Julie Minella is a sweet connoisseur. She's actually a developmental psychologist, and she studies all things sweet at the Monell Chemical Census Center in Philadelphia.

Speaker 8 For sweet, many would argue that it is our signal, thinking of the environment in which we evolved in, it's our signal for energy or calories.

Speaker 7 This is the theory that we evolved to get super stoked when something tasted sweet because it meant that we had hit the calorie jackpot.

Speaker 7 And just like hitting the lottery jackpot today, that was a rare event for our ancient ancestors.

Speaker 8 You know, think of the environment in which we came from, if you will, and we didn't evolve in an environment of manufactured sweets or added sugars.

Speaker 8 Our sweet quality came from mother's milk, from fruit, nectar, honey. That probably were the primary sources.

Speaker 6 And of course, as Julie pointed out, we love it. We're wired to love it.

Speaker 8 For sweet, in general, there are areas of the brain that receive information that are associated with pleasure and reward,

Speaker 8 and often leading many to say that sweet is our oldest reward.

Speaker 7 There's been a lot of debate recently around whether sugar is actually addictive.

Speaker 7 Researchers have shown that in some conditions, lab rats pursue sugar over cocaine, and they found that sugar seems to cause the same type of symptoms of dependence and withdrawals as addictive drugs.

Speaker 6 But researchers are careful not to say that sugar is genuinely addictive to us humans.

Speaker 6 They can't really say that people who love it are dependent on it and engage in risky behaviors to get it the way they do with drugs. Julie agrees, it's complicated.

Speaker 8 I mean, one would argue, could foods ever be addictive per per se, because it's something that you need and it's calories.

Speaker 8 But many drugs of abuse are actually co-opting these brain pathways that were designed for sweet.

Speaker 8 When you taste something sweet, there are chemicals in the brain, dopamine being one of them, that are released in certain areas of the brain that are also activated with certain drugs of abuse.

Speaker 7 Basically, sugar, that sweet taste, it's powerful stuff.

Speaker 6 So, okay, we adults adore sugar, but kids love it even more than we do.

Speaker 8 I think all you have to be be is an observer of human behavior, and you know that children like sweets.

Speaker 7 Julie and her colleagues at the Monal Center have done a number of scientific studies looking at exactly how much kids favor sugar.

Speaker 8 What we consistently find over the years is that children will most prefer a sweeter solution than adults. We all like sweet, but it's to a different degree.

Speaker 6 But how much sweeter exactly?

Speaker 8 So, the most preferred level of sweetness on average for an adult is like a can of cola. Let's say you've got a can of cola.
Add seven cubes of sugar to it, and that's a child.

Speaker 7 I can't even imagine how crazily sweet that would taste. But Julie's tried it.

Speaker 10 Of course, yeah.

Speaker 7 What does it taste like?

Speaker 8 It's one would expect very sweet.

Speaker 6 Kids are super sensitive to even slight differences in sweet. Julie's tested this with blueberries.

Speaker 7 Different varieties of blueberry have very tiny differences in their levels of sugar, just naturally.

Speaker 7 Julie's colleagues measured these differences in the lab, and then Julie fed the blueberries to a group of volunteers.

Speaker 8 And we had adults and children a variety of methods. I always like to ask the child a question in a number of different ways.

Speaker 8 Whether they picked which one they liked the best, whether they ranked them, which one they wanted to take home.

Speaker 6 So when kids and grown-ups could choose from blueberries that had the same sugar content but maybe slightly different textures, there was no real difference in what both groups chose.

Speaker 8 But when there was a slight difference in the sugar content, children really went for the ones that were sweeter.

Speaker 8 Where adults were probably were picking up other cues or liking a blueberry for other reasons, whether it was texture, the crunch.

Speaker 7 If you're a kid, sweetness is just the most important quality in a blueberry or anything else. And there's a very simple reason why sweet matters to kids more than it does to grown-ups.

Speaker 8 So you see children attracted to that which they need. They're growing, they need the energy, and then when growth has stopped, you actually can see that children start preferring lower levels.

Speaker 8 You know, it's often fascinated me where many will say how their children change during college.

Speaker 8 You know obviously there's a lot of social changes that are occurring but I think that there may also be something biological.

Speaker 6 Julie's tested this too.

Speaker 8 It was first done at the University of Washington in which they measured sweet preference in children and then also collected urine and measured a biomarker for bone growth.

Speaker 8 And then several years later we did a similar study.

Speaker 6 And they found that when that biomarker in urine shows that kids are growing the most intensely, they also crave sweet the most intensely.

Speaker 6 And when their growth stops in adolescence, so does that overwhelming obsession with extra high levels of sweet.

Speaker 7 None of this would be anything other than interesting science if it wasn't for the fact that we now live in a world that is super sweet compared to the world we evolved in.

Speaker 7 And so kids who are biologically programmed to crave sugar, they can eat a lot of it. More of it than they actually need.
And they do.

Speaker 8 From the age of two, an American is more likely to eat a manufactured sweet on a given day than a fruit or vegetable.

Speaker 6 Steve Gortmaker studies the implications of what kids are eating today at the Harvard School of Public Health, and based on his research, he can predict what this means for kids when they grow up.

Speaker 11 Like we projected, 59% of today's two-year-olds will have obesity when they're 35.

Speaker 12 That's where we're headed.

Speaker 7 59%.

Speaker 6 That is a truly shocking statistic and horrifying because it's not just that they'll they'll be heavier. There are a lot of health problems that come along with that.

Speaker 6 Joint problems, higher risk of type 2 diabetes, higher risk of certain kinds of cancer, higher risk of cardiovascular diseases like strokes and heart attacks.

Speaker 7 So some of you will have heard stuff in the media about whether rising rates of obesity are even real, and if they're real, whether that's something we should even be worried about.

Speaker 7 Here's where we are on that. Yes, different individuals can be healthy at different weights.

Speaker 6 No, we should definitely not be body shaming anyone, anyone.

Speaker 7 And yes, obesity is measured using a flawed system. BMI or body mass index.
That doesn't account for the difference in weight between muscles and fat, for example.

Speaker 6 But still, there is a scientific consensus here. Rising rates of obesity are real.
They are a problem right now. And they'll mean rising health problems down the line.

Speaker 7 And Julie's concern is that we're setting the next generation up for these problems. And actually, that today's sugar-filled environment is reprogramming them to consume more sugar, even as adults.

Speaker 13 So children are learning and they're learning what a food should taste like.

Speaker 6 As Julie said, today's two-year-olds are more likely to eat a sweetened cookie or candy or extra sweet juice than to eat a piece of fruit.

Speaker 6 So she's studying what impact this will have on the foods they prefer in the future.

Speaker 8 You know, many consider that some of these added sugars are almost like super normal stimuli.

Speaker 8 And there's basic research in animal models that would suggest this, but it's the type of studies that we're trying to do now with children to see how they learn, how does exposure affect the level of sweetness they like.

Speaker 7 What makes this especially hard is, given how much kids biologically just love sweet and how happy it makes them and how much sugar there is all around them, how can a parent possibly deny that pleasure to their kids?

Speaker 8 So I think there are many people that are looking at that question.

Speaker 8 And I leave it to those minds to come up with a solution.

Speaker 7 Okay, so let's see what those minds are thinking.

Speaker 6 In theory, one thing we could do, the most simple thing, just ban sugary foods.

Speaker 12 We can't ban them.

Speaker 14 We can't ban food. The problem is a little food is okay for you, a lot of food is bad for you.
Phew.

Speaker 7 Thank you, Barry. It would be a sad world indeed without the occasional sweet treat.
That's Barry Popkin. He's an economist and nutritionist at UNC Chapel Hill.

Speaker 6 So you can't ban sugary foods, but maybe you can make it a little harder for people to eat them.

Speaker 7 But there's sugar in everything, bread and crackers and ketchup. So nutritionists and economists and public health folks, they've chosen one particular food to go after.

Speaker 15 So beverages, sugary beverages, are the largest source of added sugar in our diets.

Speaker 7 That's Sarah Bleisch, a professor of public health policy at Harvard.

Speaker 7 And again, it's hard to pin down exactly what Americans eat and drink, but researchers believe that roughly half of all the sugar consumed in the U.S., half, comes straight from sugary drinks.

Speaker 6 This isn't just soda, of course. It sports drinks like Gatorade and sweetened teas and energy drinks and any other sweetened drink you can buy.

Speaker 6 But it seems like roughly a full-third of all sugar that's consumed in America comes from sodas. Scientists call this whole category sugar-sweetened beverages, but that's clunky.

Speaker 6 Sorry, Nikki, not a great title for the show. So we're just going to lump it all together and call it soda.

Speaker 7 There are regional differences in what a soda is called. I grew up calling them fizzy drinks, and I kind of love pop as a term.
But soda is what we're using this episode, so deal with it.

Speaker 6 Everyone knows that sodas have sugar in them, but it's kind of shocking just how much sugar there is in a normal 12-ounce can of Coke or Pepsi.

Speaker 7 That one can, it has 10 teaspoons of sugar. For me, it's still kind of hard to picture how much that is, but here's an experiment you can do to get a sense.
Put 12 ounces of water in a glass.

Speaker 7 That's just a cup and a half. And then add 10 teaspoons of sugar, and then try to drink it.

Speaker 6 We did, and it is disgustingly sweet. That sweetness gets masked by both the cold temperature and by the fizz.

Speaker 6 But try a Coke warm or a Coke that's gone flat and you'll see it is incredibly tooth-numbingly sweet.

Speaker 7 And of course, all that sugar makes soda a pretty major problem for public health.

Speaker 12 Well, the research on this probably goes back about 15 years, but in the past seven years or so, the research on this has just become rock solid.

Speaker 6 Kelly Brunel is director of the World Food Policy Center at Duke University.

Speaker 12 So there are studies using many kinds of methods using different populations as study subjects, and they're pretty uniform in finding that there are significant links between consumption of sugared beverages and important health outcomes, obesity and diabetes in particular, but other health outcomes, pretty scary health outcomes as well.

Speaker 12 There are some studies not showing this, but those tend to be industry-funded studies.

Speaker 6 We will actually be coming back to those industry-funded studies.

Speaker 7 But wait, there is more bad news about sodas because they're not just a target because of how many calories they contribute to the average American diet.

Speaker 7 Turns out, sodas do something a little different to our bodies than other sugary foods.

Speaker 17 Let's be honest, are you happy with your job? Like, really happy? The unfortunate fact is that a huge number of people can't say yes to that.

Speaker 17 Far too many of us are stuck in a job we've outgrown, or one we never wanted in the first place. But still, we stick it out, and we give reasons like, what if the next move is even worse?

Speaker 17 I've already put years into this place. And maybe the most common one, isn't everyone kind of miserable at work? But there's a difference between reasons for staying and excuses for not leaving.

Speaker 17 It's time to get unstuck. It's time for strawberry.me.
They match you with a certified career coach who helps you go from where you are to where you actually want to be.

Speaker 17 Your coach helps you get clear on your goals, create a plan, build your confidence, and keeps you accountable along the way. So don't leave your career to chance.

Speaker 17 Take action and own your future with a professional coach in your corner. Go to strawberry.me/slash unstuck to claim a special offer.
That's strawberry.me slash unstuck.

Speaker 10 Oh, the car from Carvona's here.

Speaker 20 Well, will you look at that? It's exactly what I ordered. Like, precisely.
It would be crazy if there were any catches.

Speaker 10 But there aren't, right?

Speaker 20 Right.

Speaker 17 Because that's how car buying should be.

Speaker 6 With Carvana, you get the car you want.

Speaker 19 Choose delivery or pickup and a week to love it or return it.

Speaker 20 Buy your car today with Carvana.

Speaker 19 Delivery or pickup fees may apply. Limitations and exclusions may apply.
See our seven-day return policy at Carvana.com.

Speaker 6 So soda is different from other sugary foods in one particularly strange way. Kelly told us that people just don't seem to get as full from soda calories as they do from food calories.

Speaker 12 So let's let's just say, for example, we take half of your audience and we do an experiment.

Speaker 12 And on the same day, half the audience gets whatever they normally eat for lunch, but we add 200 calories to what they normally eat. But it comes in solid form.

Speaker 12 It could be pizza donuts or ice cream for that matter, but it's solid. And then the other half of the audience gets what they normally eat for lunch.

Speaker 12 They get an additional 200 calories, but it comes in sugared beverages.

Speaker 12 The ones that got the sugared beverages won't adjust as well in subsequent meals for the 200-calorie excess because the body doesn't seem to register the calories as well.

Speaker 12 It doesn't seem to feel as full with these calories that are coming through liquids.

Speaker 6 Richard Menis has done a bunch of experiments that show this. He's a professor of nutrition science at Purdue University.

Speaker 22 Well, we've done trials where we manipulate food form from clear liquid to semi-solids to solid foods and have people consume them in fixed portions.

Speaker 7 And then Rick monitored these people to see how full they felt and how hungry they got afterwards.

Speaker 22 The findings consistently demonstrate that the appetitive sensations are least affected by the beverages.

Speaker 22 That is, hunger drops the least, fullness rises the least, and that total daily energy intake goes up more when there's a beverage.

Speaker 6 Basically, people don't get full from the calories in soda, not the way they would from solid foods.

Speaker 6 They eat just as much afterwards as they would otherwise, and so they end up with more total calories consumed.

Speaker 7 Amazingly, Rick has found this effect even works just based on whether you believe a food is a solid or a liquid.

Speaker 22 We did a trial a few years ago where we told people that a food would be a liquid or a solid in their stomach after it was consumed.

Speaker 6 It didn't matter what they were told. In fact, it was actually just clear liquid.
But if the participants thought they had a solid food in their body, their hunger dropped.

Speaker 6 Their stomachs actually physically stayed full longer. The liquid even took longer to pass through their intestines just because they thought it was solid.
Rick's not sure why.

Speaker 22 I think the mechanistic explanations are not defined in great

Speaker 22 specificity, but it's clear that we handle liquids and solids very differently biologically.

Speaker 7 Once again, there's an evolutionary theory for why the calories in a liquid don't seem to register the same way as food calories.

Speaker 7 Our bodies are actually quite finely tuned to measure how many calories we take in.

Speaker 7 There are lots of different systems keeping track of that because it's really important that we get enough calories to survive.

Speaker 6 But the only real liquid we drank in evolutionary terms that had a lot of calories, that was mother's milk, and we weren't drinking it for most of our lives.

Speaker 22 You know, beer is only maybe 12,000 years old or so, so in evolutionary times, still a very recent phenomenon. But by and large, post-weaning, we just drank water.

Speaker 22 And so there was no need to monitor energy in beverage form.

Speaker 6 And so we don't seem to have that ability.

Speaker 7 So up till now, we've been talking about sugar in terms of calories, that the main danger of consuming lots of sugar is the excess weight gain. But that's not actually soda's only danger.

Speaker 16 There's independent metabolic effects from those sugars beyond weight. So we have two, there are two pathways.

Speaker 6 Vasante Malik is a public health researcher at Harvard.

Speaker 7 The first pathway or problem that Vasante flagged for us is kind of obvious when you think about it. When you drink a soda, you are getting just a lot of sugar really, really quickly.

Speaker 16 You get spikes in blood glucose and blood in insulin. And over time, that can lead to insulin resistance, diabetes, and put you on that path to cardiometabolic dysfunction.

Speaker 6 And then there's another problem that's a particular issue. When you get all that sugar at once from soda, the fructose from soda gets broken down in your liver.

Speaker 16 And when you have too much fructose getting into the liver,

Speaker 16 your body starts creating triglycerides or fats. And so that contributes to insulin resistance and diabetes again.

Speaker 16 So it's really the sugars in these beverages contribute to cardiometabolic risk independent of weight gain.

Speaker 7 So the case is starting to seem stacked against soda. But still, plenty of foods are high in sugar and not a lot else.

Speaker 12 Now, the soda companies will often complain that they're getting picked on unfairly because there are lots of foods contributing to things like obesity and diabetes.

Speaker 12 And that's an interesting argument that one can address.

Speaker 6 But even if most people don't know all the scientific reasons why soda in particular is bad for us, Kelly says that focusing on soda still makes sense because people get that soda has a lot of sugar.

Speaker 12 People understand soda as a category and they see it as a luxury rather than a necessity.

Speaker 7 And all of this means that soda is officially the target. Mainstream scientists are agreed that we should be drinking less of it, particularly kids.
So the next question is, how to make that happen?

Speaker 6 Well, there's one government response that you listeners might have already heard about. You can tax it.

Speaker 6 This seems like a modern idea, but actually, people first started talking about soda taxes a long time ago, even before scientists alerted us to all these health impacts.

Speaker 6 Coca-Cola was first taxed in the U.S.

Speaker 6 during the Spanish-American War at the end of the 1800s to help pay for the war, and it was taxed as a medicine because of the cola nut and the caffeine and, you know, all of the cocaine and the coca leaves.

Speaker 7 Funnily enough, after the war, Coke sued the government and won. Their argument? That actually Coca-Cola wasn't a medicine.
It was just a soft drink.

Speaker 6 A couple decades later, sodas were taxed at 10% as part of the Revenue Act of 1918. It was just a move to try to raise money for the government.

Speaker 7 This tax was repealed three years later when the government was out of the hole. But it freaked out the soda companies so much that they teamed up to form the American Beverage Association.

Speaker 7 Remember that name because you are gonna hear it again.

Speaker 6 The American Beverage Association got pretty powerful pretty quickly. They kept taxes off the table for decades.

Speaker 6 There were a couple really small taxes, a penny here, a penny there, but nothing significant.

Speaker 7 But these taxes were all about revenue, about an easy way to raise a little extra cash.

Speaker 7 That was how people thought of soda taxes until Kelly Brownell started thinking about them in a public health kind of context in the early 1990s.

Speaker 12 The first time I wrote anything that was of a more public nature was an op-ed piece in the New York Times in 1994.

Speaker 6 Kelly was saying that taxing soda could reduce the consumption of soda because scientists had finally done the research to see that taxes had done exactly that for tobacco.

Speaker 7 Today, it seems obvious that cigarette taxes are a good idea to reduce smoking and improve public health. But Steve Courtmaker says it didn't always.

Speaker 11 Before those went into effect, I remember reading and people going, Are people really going to change their behavior?

Speaker 7 We now know, of course, that as cigarettes were taxed more and more across the U.S., well, people did start smoking less, a lot less.

Speaker 12 You raise the price, people buy less.

Speaker 11 It's very predictable.

Speaker 6 And so public health folks like Kelly thought, great, taxes work. People are smoking less, they're healthier because of those cigarette taxes.
So.

Speaker 12 Why not tax these foods when tobacco taxes work so well and the soda consumption is having a negative impact on health? So it's a public health argument and partially an economic argument.

Speaker 7 Like we said, Kelly first put out this suggestion that we could tax soda to improve public health. He put that out in the New York Times in 1994.

Speaker 7 And people talked about it, but nothing really happened for another 15 years.

Speaker 12 But then in about 2009, things took a different turn. And several things happened.
One is that the science became very robust and quite clear that the sodas were having a negative impact.

Speaker 12 But also at that time, governments in the United States were struggling for income because of the economy going so badly.

Speaker 12 And one way to raise revenue to help with economic things is to increase taxes. And some politicians began thinking of putting in a tax that would have a double benefit.

Speaker 12 It could raise revenue, but also might lower health care costs. And that's when soda taxes jump back into the picture.

Speaker 6 As you might remember, these taxes aren't technically called soda taxes. They're called sugar-sweetened beverage taxes or SSB taxes because they cover all sorts of sugar-sweetened beverages.

Speaker 6 But SSB is just not as fun to say, so soda taxes it is.

Speaker 7 In New York City at this point, the mayor was Mike Bloomberg. And in 2010, he he started pushing hard for a tax on soda.

Speaker 7 But the problem he came up against was that had to happen at the state level in New York. The city couldn't go it alone.

Speaker 6 And that idea was shot down at the state level. But Bloomberg wasn't done.
He'd managed to get the most comprehensive ban on public smoking in the entire country.

Speaker 6 He'd banned trans fats, and he knew soda was another big health problem. Here he is in conversation with Charlie Rose.

Speaker 23 You attract enormous attention for what you're trying to do in health. There was smoking, there was trans fat.
Now there is sugar and sugary drinks.

Speaker 24 What is this?

Speaker 14 What is it that drives you to try to impose?

Speaker 23 If government's purpose isn't to improve the health and longevity of its citizens, I don't know what its purpose is.

Speaker 7 Bloomberg couldn't legally do a tax. So in 2012, he came up with an alternative.

Speaker 25 We're going to turn now to the looming ban this morning on all super-sized sugary drinks.

Speaker 25 New York City planning to outlaw sales of big sodas and other sweet drinks over a certain size in an effort to curb obesity. It is the first ever nationwide band of its kind.
And ABC's Dr.

Speaker 25 Richard Besser is here with more. And Rich, this is raising a lot of eyebrows.
It really is.

Speaker 12 I mean, this is big.

Speaker 23 This is a dramatic measure.

Speaker 6 What was this big deal? Oh my God, you can't buy a sweet drink in anything larger than a 16-ounce cup.

Speaker 26 Well, the way it would work is simply those organizations, those industries that we regulate, which are

Speaker 26 restaurants and movie theaters and carts,

Speaker 26 they can still sell 32 ounces of sugar drink to you, but they'd have to put it in two containers.

Speaker 7 I lived in New York City at this time and I have to tell you, everybody had a complete meltdown about this. You would have thought Bloomberg was trying to take away everyone's firstborn child.

Speaker 23 I am all for promoting public health, but Mr. Mayor, this plan makes your asinine look big.

Speaker 27 Let me let me get this straight. As a New Yorker, I can go on my lunch break to, I don't know, Carnegie Deli and order 14 pounds of pastrami garnished with seven pounds of beef tongue.

Speaker 27 And not only won't the deli guy go, what?

Speaker 27 That's the most ridiculous, self-destructive thing a person could ever order. The deli guy will go, oh, you want the Mandy Patinka.

Speaker 28 Then I can go from there

Speaker 27 right over to Hooters for a quick basket of chicken wings battered deep fried and tossed in hot sauce and melted butter served with a bowl of cheese.

Speaker 27 Top it all off with a little bit of frozen hot chocolate from serendipities.

Speaker 28 All of this is legal in New York City.

Speaker 28 Until, God forbid,

Speaker 28 I want to wash it down

Speaker 28 with a little something as pure and refreshing as Mountain Ew.

Speaker 28 Oh no, I'm on the run from John and all.

Speaker 6 John, I love you. I do.
I agree with you about almost everything, but come on.

Speaker 7 Wait, Cynthia, he's not done.

Speaker 12 Look, Mr. Mayor,

Speaker 23 I know you can be intimidated by these large-sized drinks.

Speaker 23 You and I are both, let's face it, small.

Speaker 23 We might see a generously proportioned sugared beverage and think of it as a drowning hazard.

Speaker 23 But it's not fair!

Speaker 28 It's not fair!

Speaker 7 But really, what was so unfair?

Speaker 29 Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start? Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to.

Speaker 29 Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin, or what that clunking sound from your dryer is? With thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro.

Speaker 10 You just have to hire one.

Speaker 29 You can hire top-rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews all on the app. Download today.

Speaker 30 Support for this show comes from Odo. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odo.

Speaker 30 It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier.
CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more.

Speaker 18 And the best part?

Speaker 30 Odo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch.
So why not you?

Speaker 12 Try Odu for free at odu.com.

Speaker 30 That's odoo.com.

Speaker 7 Remember, no one was saying you couldn't have all the soda your poor, overstressed heart could desire. You just had to buy another cupful.

Speaker 12 That was all.

Speaker 26 If you want to have multiple ones, that's up to you. We're not taking away anybody's right to do anything.

Speaker 26 All we're trying to do is to remind you that this is something that could be, should be, is, not should be, is detrimental to your health, and to do something about this national epidemic.

Speaker 26 It's not perfect. It's not the only answer.
It's not the only cause of people being overweight.

Speaker 26 But we've got to do something, sitting around and doing nothing and watching our kids get fatter and fatter. Then they're going to be overweight as adults if they're overweight as kids.

Speaker 26 That's just not something that we should do as a society.

Speaker 6 And the Board of Health in New York agreed with Mayor Mike Bloomberg. They thought that keeping sweet drinks to only 16 ounces was a great idea and could be a boon to public health.

Speaker 6 They voted in favor of it.

Speaker 7 And the soda industry, They went ape. They ran a full-page ad in the New York Times showing Mike Bloomberg looking super frumpy in a blue dress looming over the city like King Kong.

Speaker 7 It was made to look like a movie poster where the movie was called The Nanny. Tagline, you only thought you lived in the land of the free.

Speaker 6 Bloomberg did respond to the ad at a press conference. Would I wear a dress like that? No, it was one of the more unflattering dresses.

Speaker 7 But putting Bloomberg in an unflattering dress wasn't the only trick up the soda industry's sleeve.

Speaker 7 They hired a public relations firm to start a supposedly citizen group called New Yorkers for Beverage Choices.

Speaker 24 This is New York City.

Speaker 24 No one tells us what neighborhood to live in, what team to root for, or what deli to eat at. And don't even try to tell a city that never sleeps that it's bedtime.

Speaker 24 So are we going to let the mayor tell us what size beverage to buy? If we let him get away with this, where will it end? Hey, New York, it's time to take a stand. Join us.

Speaker 6 Nobody was taking away anyone's choices. Drink all the soda you want.
But frankly, the research does seem to show that if you buy a 16-ounce cup, you usually just drink that.

Speaker 6 And if you buy 32 ounces, well, you drink all of it. That's why this was a good idea.

Speaker 7 But Jon Stewart and the rest of the media spent so much time ridiculing the portion cap and saying the mayor was trying to ban soft drinks.

Speaker 31 and the American Beverage Association spent so much money shifting public opinion and so much money paying lawyers to nitpick over the jurisdictional issues and in the end the ban on the sale of those giant sugary sodas the subject of so much late-night comedy well that ban has been put on hold it was a big public health effort by the mayor of new york to help with obesity and it was supposed to start tomorrow but today a judge said not so fast.

Speaker 6 But Bloomberg wasn't done. You'll hear his name in part two of our story because he thinks that reducing soda consumption is really important.

Speaker 7 But I want to spend a minute here because what about this argument that Americans don't need a nanny, that we can make our own choices about drinking soda?

Speaker 15 Well, so number one, I think one really important thing to understand. Yes, people hate being told what to do.

Speaker 15 But public health has a very long history of essentially telling people what to do and creating these bumper cars around our lives to make us safer.

Speaker 15 So that includes sanitation, that includes vaccines, that includes seat belts in cars, helmets when you ride a bike. There's a whole long list of things that public health has done.

Speaker 6 This is Sarah Bleisch again. She says that, first of all, as you might remember, we need extra help to stop drinking soda because it just doesn't make us full.

Speaker 15 A second thing is that Americans and people in general have no sense of calories. So if you said to them, you know, that soda is 400 calories or 500 calories, that's going to require mental math.

Speaker 15 Numeracy is poor in the United States. It's going to require an understanding of how many total calories do I need in a day? And where does this fit in?

Speaker 15 And can I remember what I even had for breakfast? And so that level of attention is often not normal in the U.S.

Speaker 7 Given all of this, maybe we kind of do need a nanny when it comes to soda because we can't rely on our bodies to tell us we're full.

Speaker 7 And most of us, me included, can't make sense of the numbers on the label. And also, we've been trained by our environment to expect to drink huge amounts of these sugary beverages.

Speaker 15 I am of the mindset that if you handed someone a 20-ounce soda rather than a 32 ounce soda, I'm not sure they're going to be any more thirsty.

Speaker 15 They're probably not 12 ounces more thirsty because you've reduced the size.

Speaker 15 And so a big part of this is, you know, the expectations we have around beverage sizes and just expecting everything to be very large. But I'm not convinced we do that because we're thirsty.

Speaker 15 We just do it because it's right in front of us.

Speaker 6 So we don't actually have totally free will. We think we do.
We think we've chosen to drink all that ice cold soda, but, and it's not just the expectation of size.

Speaker 6 We don't even realize how intensely we've been subjected to soda marketing.

Speaker 15 Yeah, so advertising is like the elephant in the room.

Speaker 15 So, particularly for children, children younger than the age of five or six can't tell you in the 20-minute show what was a commercial and what was actually the show.

Speaker 15 So, the advertising can have a huge impact on them. I have small children.
I have observed that firsthand.

Speaker 12 It's not easy to escape the presence of these sodas. First of all, there's relentless marketing.
The companies will very often say they don't market directly to children.

Speaker 7 Which they used to do, blatantly.

Speaker 16 What makes you cool is your attitude, your inner self.

Speaker 8 It's not the way your hair is cut.

Speaker 8 It's not the clothes you wear.

Speaker 9 Not the clothes. Not the clothes.

Speaker 7 You got Pepsi for me?

Speaker 6 Okay, it's clear who's supposed to think that drinking Pepsi makes you cool in that ad from the 80s.

Speaker 6 But even today, some of the marketing to kids is not obviously directed at kids, but really, they're still the target.

Speaker 7 I mean, mean, for heaven's sake, Coke literally has Santa Claus and fluffy polar bears in their ads.

Speaker 12 You know, you don't have to look very far in a sporting event to see on the scoreboard or some prominent place in the stadium big advertisements for sugared beverages.

Speaker 12 There are music stars and movie celebrities and other people children admire who become spokespeople for the beverage companies.

Speaker 12 And I'm moving down like that,

Speaker 12 down like that. When I do it, I found it.

Speaker 13 Embrace your past, but live for now.

Speaker 13 Now special hour on this,

Speaker 13 because I put it down like that.

Speaker 13 You're a whole new generation.

Speaker 13 You're dancing through the day.

Speaker 13 You're grabbing us all magic on the run.

Speaker 13 You're a whole new generation.

Speaker 13 You're loving the ones I do.

Speaker 13 I put a Pepsi in the motion. And that choice enough for you.
Hey,

Speaker 13 you're the best

Speaker 13 generation.

Speaker 13 Cause I'm down.

Speaker 7 That medley, Cynthia. I'm about to moonwalk.

Speaker 6 If you're anywhere around my age, I dare you to not start dancing to an ad.

Speaker 7 Sarah and Callie told us that soda companies spend billions on advertising. Literally, Coke spends more than $4 billion a year.

Speaker 7 And then on top of that, they also do a lot of quote-unquote philanthropy, sponsoring school sports and community stuff. And that doesn't even look like advertising to most people, but it is.

Speaker 6 Imagine you're a teen, your school has regular football or basketball games, and every time you go, you see a soft drink company's logo on the billboard. Why wouldn't you be triggered to drink it?

Speaker 6 That's an ad.

Speaker 7 Remember, soda is basically flavored, fizzy sugar water. But But the marketing folks at those soda companies have turned that sugar water into a magical potion.

Speaker 7 It's even capable of bringing world peace.

Speaker 6 I am back in elementary school right now listening to this. I think we sang it in school.

Speaker 7 That jingle was so popular, Coke literally released it as a single. And that's from the 70s, but Coke is still doing this world peace shtick today.

Speaker 6 Coke, this is out of control.

Speaker 6 Coke set up this thing a couple years ago where there were vending machines in India and Pakistan, and there's like a Skype hookup, and you could get a free Coke if you touched hands with someone in the other country.

Speaker 7 Who knew that one of the world's longest-running conflicts just needed some fizzy drinks to smooth things over?

Speaker 6 But let's not forget that Coke apparently can provide happiness on an individual level too. You can make someone else happy, you can make yourself happy.

Speaker 7 This stuff is pervasive and it has made Coke and Pepsi two of the most loved, most ubiquitous companies in the world.

Speaker 6 And even if you think that this is because they're the most delicious drinks on the planet, it's impossible to disentangle those feelings from all that advertising. It really has a big impact on us.

Speaker 15 So, what a lot of the behavioral psychologists will argue is we're not actually making the choices that we think we're making because so much of our environment is scripted around us.

Speaker 6 And remember, kids drink a lot of soda, and a lot of the marketing is targeted at kids. And kids, well, everyone knows they need nannying.
Teens, too, they're not the best decision makers.

Speaker 6 We all need these little nudges, but kids most especially.

Speaker 7 So, there are a lot of reasons why we might need a little help from nanny, aka the government, to cut down on our soda consumption.

Speaker 7 Again, no one is saying you can't have a soda if you want one, just like no one is saying you can't have a cigarette if you're an adult and that's your kind of treat.

Speaker 6 But basically, really, soda is only sugar and water, and it comes with health risks. Maybe not to quite the same degree as cigarettes, and soda isn't addictive like nicotine is.

Speaker 6 If you want it, okay, but there are potential harms from drinking too much of it.

Speaker 7 So why shouldn't public health officials introduce just a little friction into into the whole process?

Speaker 7 You can still chug the 24 teaspoons of sugar in a big gulp if you want, but given all the ways the soda companies are manipulating you, why shouldn't government use a few of its own tools to make you think just a tiny bit more before you drink?

Speaker 15 And so behavioral nudges, which have been shown in lots of different areas with just these simple little tricks, you could call them, sort of move people in the right direction.

Speaker 6 That's just what Bloomberg was trying to do. He was trying to make it just a little bit harder for you to drink a huge amount of soda, to help you drink less.

Speaker 6 He wanted to try to combat all the ways that the soda industry has been convincing you to drink more.

Speaker 7 His cap didn't work.

Speaker 7 The same time Bloomberg's cap was being debated, places that could pass taxes, remember, part of Bloomberg's problem was that he wasn't able to do that at the city level in New York.

Speaker 7 But other places around the country decided they'd try to pass taxes to use that as a nudge.

Speaker 33 Now, the campaign against sodas and sugary drinks in the name of public health. One city in California may be poised to go farther than anyone has so far with a new tax.

Speaker 6 This is Richmond, California in the Bay Area. The year is 2012.
It's just a few months after Bloomberg first proposed a soda cup.

Speaker 7 As PBS's Spencer Michaels reported at the time, Richmond is a pretty low-income community for the region, and it had and has a serious childhood obesity problem.

Speaker 34 In fact, the rising rates of diabetes and other weight-related illnesses are at the heart of the debate now raging in Richmond over the proposed tax.

Speaker 36 We have a big problem with childhood obesity in Richmond, as you probably know, and it's a health disparity issue for us.

Speaker 36 Fully a third of our Latino fifth and seventh graders and a third of our African-American fifth and seventh graders are obese.

Speaker 34 City Councilman Jeff Ritterman, a cardiologist, proposed the tax, which would be the first of its kind in the country.

Speaker 6 The plan was to use those taxes to raise millions of dollars for local sports fields, diabetes treatment for low-income kids, and nutrition classes in schools.

Speaker 7 But not everyone was on board.

Speaker 34 At the family market in the working-class town of Richmond, California near San Francisco, owner Mohamed L.

Speaker 34 Solfrey is deeply concerned about a new city council-backed measure which would place a penny per ounce tax on sugar-sweetened beverages.

Speaker 35 This will just hurt the poor people and hurt the business owners like myself. People that want to drink sodas, they drink.
Palm Springs and Beverly Hill, they all drink sodas.

Speaker 35 I mean, it's not a matter of, you know, just Richmond that got fed.

Speaker 6 A city councilman named Corky Bouzet agreed that this was a bad idea.

Speaker 34 Bouzet says some residents will shop elsewhere to avoid the tax, but poor people won't be able to.

Speaker 37 It's unfair to people. who basically don't have the means of getting out of their neighborhood store to go into the neighboring communities to be able to avoid that tax.

Speaker 34 And Bouzet says he doesn't think the government should be in the business of dictating what people should drink or eat.

Speaker 37 I think that when we get into the point of being a dictator to people, I think it's wrong. People are heavy for all kinds of reasons.

Speaker 7 These arguments, they're the arguments that were being made by our old friends, the American Beverage Association. They spent heavily to campaign against this tax.

Speaker 7 They paid people to argue against it at community meetings, and they even ran a Super Bowl ad.

Speaker 32 Feeding a family is difficult enough in today's economy. Now, some politicians want the government telling me how I should do it.

Speaker 6 On November 6th, 2012, the people of Richmond, California went to the polls. They had to say yay or nay to Measure N, a one-cent per ounce tax on soda.
And it failed.

Speaker 7 Over the next couple of years, a soda tax ballot initiative failed in Telluride, Colorado. It failed in Santa Fe, New Mexico.
It failed in Chicago. It failed in El Monte, California.

Speaker 7 It failed in in dozens of places around the U.S.

Speaker 6 Until one finally passes in 2014. Voters in Berkeley, California are the first in the nation to approve a tax on sodas to make people drink less sugar.

Speaker 6 76% of people voted in favor of the tax, despite the fact that the soda industry spent nearly $2.5 million in Berkeley against it, $30 per voter.

Speaker 6 Four months later, the city would put the tax in place. It would add a penny an ounce tax on sweetened beverages.
So?

Speaker 7 Did it work? Did the soda tax reduce obesity? Or did all the failures the soda companies predicted did they come true?

Speaker 6 Industry groups had some pretty dire warnings.

Speaker 6 They said people would just go buy their soda somewhere else, local grocery stores would lose money, they'd lose jobs, the poor would suffer the most, and people wouldn't cut down their soda consumption at all, so there wouldn't even be a health benefit.

Speaker 6 And? We'll tell you that story in two weeks. Plus, why and how did the soda industry take the entire state of California hostage just this past summer?

Speaker 7 And is a soda tax the most effective tool to reduce obesity? Or is there something else places could be doing that would have more impact?

Speaker 7 Thanks this episode to Julie Manella, Barry Popkin, Rick Mattez, Vasante Malik, Kelly Brownell, Sarah Bleisch, and Stephen Gortmaker.

Speaker 7 And a special thank you to Gastropod listener and volunteer Sam Panzer, who helps us get transcripts of our episodes for you all and who also found quite a bit of the cool sound in this episode.

Speaker 7 Thank you Sam.

Speaker 6 And don't forget, we want your ideas for how to improve the diversity on the show. Email us at contact at gastropod.com.

Speaker 6 We want your help by filling out our survey at gastropod.com/slash survey, and you might win a $100 Amazon gift card.

Speaker 6 And we really need your help in telling people regularly about the show in person and on social media. Help us spread the love.

Speaker 7 Tune in in two weeks for the second part of our Soda Wars story, in which big soda takes things up a notch.

Speaker 6 You described the media kind of calling it blackmail. Does it sound like blackmail to you?

Speaker 15 I mean, essentially, I think that is what happened. I mean, if you ask the legislators, did they want to make that choice, it doesn't sound like they do.

Speaker 15 But it also doesn't sound like they had much of a choice in the process. So I think it was a very, I mean, it was checkmate.
It was a very effective strategy by the American Beverage Association.

Speaker 21 What do walking 10,000 steps every day, eating five servings of fruits and veggies, and getting eight hours of sleep have in common?

Speaker 13 They're all healthy choices.

Speaker 10 But do all healthier choices really pay off?

Speaker 21 With prescription plans from CVS CareMark, they do. Their plan designs give your members more choice, which gives your members more ways to get on, stay on, and manage their meds.

Speaker 18 And that helps your business control your costs, because healthier members are better for business. Go to cmk.co/slash access to learn more about helping your members stay adherent.

Speaker 21 That's cmk.co/slash access.

Speaker 3 Nobody knows your customers better than your team, so give them the power to make standout content with Adobe Express.

Speaker 3 Brand kits make following design rules a breeze, and Adobe quality templates make it easy to create pro-looking flyers, social posts, presentations, and more.

Speaker 3 You don't have to be a designer to edit campaigns, resize ads, and translate content. Anyone can in a click.
And collaboration tools put feedback right where you need it.

Speaker 3 See how you can turn your team into a content machine with Adobe Express, the quick and easy app to create on-brand content. Learn more at adobe.com slash express/slash business.