Trump: Hamas has 'three to four' days to accept peace plan

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Speaker 6 You're listening to the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service.

Speaker 6 Hello, I'm Oliver Conway, and this edition is published at 16 hours GMT on Tuesday, the 30th of September. President Trump gives Hamas four days to respond to his peace plan for Gaza.

Speaker 6 Qatar says it will hold talks with the group today. Rescuers in Indonesia are searching for more than 30 students feared trapped after a school building collapsed.

Speaker 6 And the Haitian migrants facing a deportation crackdown in the Dominican Republic.

Speaker 6 Also in the podcast.

Speaker 6 Saying goodbye to internet dial-up.

Speaker 6 President Trump says the Gaza plan he agreed with the Israeli Prime Minister yesterday will deliver eternal peace peace in the Middle East.

Speaker 6 But it's been branded a resounding diplomatic failure by a key member of Benjamin Netanyahu's government.

Speaker 6 It does have the backing of the Palestinian Authority and eight Middle East nations, but Hamas hasn't yet given its response.

Speaker 6 The Qatari government has said it will hold talks with Hamas negotiators and Turkish officials later on Tuesday. Mohamed Jassim Al-Thani is the Qatari Prime Minister.

Speaker 7 We welcome the whole initiative and we do believe that, with the leadership of the United States, that this plan would constitute a comprehensive model for the end of war.

Speaker 7 And our main goal was always to end this war, to get aid to the people who need it in Raza and to start helping the people of Gaza rebuild their lives.

Speaker 6 Not long before we recorded this podcast, President Trump said he would give Hamas about three or four days to respond, warning that the group would, quote, pay in hell if it rejected his plan.

Speaker 6 However, there are plenty of issues that are likely to be problematic for both sides, not least arrangements for governing post-war Gaza, as Tal Schneider from the Times of Israel explains.

Speaker 9 The problem remains with how do you enhance security moving on?

Speaker 9 I mean, there is this international body who's supposed to get into Gaza while when the IDF pulls back, and that means, you know, usually international bodies means trouble or not very effective and we don't know how to look on that.

Speaker 9 It's complicated.

Speaker 6 So what is the likely response from Hamas? Will it accept the agreement? I asked our international editor, Jeremy Bowen.

Speaker 10 Well, you can argue on one level because it is an important moment that the smart thing to do would be to accept it and put pressure on Israel.

Speaker 10 However, there are big questions about the attitude of military commanders inside Gaza who are fighting. There are indications we've been hearing at the BBC

Speaker 10 that they are not in a mood to accept it.

Speaker 10 That is not at all certain. I think that the the weaknesses in the plan are its vagueness, the fact that there is an awful lot that needs to be worked out.

Speaker 10 There aren't maps, there aren't timetables, there aren't the kinds of things that bring in commitment. So, what that means is that there has to be a long process of negotiation.

Speaker 10 And that means as well that those people who want to sabotage it on either side, and let's start with Israelis, if Netanyahu wanted to appease his ultra-right by just not making this thing work and finding ways to blame Hamas, then there is a lot of latitude in those points in the plan that will give opportunities for that to happen during what would have to be quite a protracted negotiating period while the offensive continued.

Speaker 6 So, do you think negotiations will start? Do you think they'll be able to have discussions with Hamas directly, or would this be mediators from the Arab world?

Speaker 6 Because there are suggestions that a lot of those countries which are allies with the US have backed this plan.

Speaker 10 Well, not just suggestions.

Speaker 10 Significant Arab countries plus Turkey have put out a statement, a joint statement, saying that they're behind it and it needs to happen.

Speaker 10 And that's a significant thing, that there is this momentum and push behind it. But they also defined where they thought the plan was going, which ultimately would lead up to a Palestinian state.

Speaker 10 And Netanyahu, before he left Washington to get back to Israel, his people did a video where they asked him questions.

Speaker 10 And one of the things was he said, I have not committed to a Palestinian state, and the IDF can stay in Gaza.

Speaker 10 Now, if you read the agreement, agreement and it's all out there, people can read it, it does say there's an aspiration towards a Palestinian state and the IDF will leave Gaza.

Speaker 10 So already, you know, the obfuscation begins.

Speaker 6 So all three sides, if you like, Hamas, the Israelis and the Americans are looking at this from different lenses.

Speaker 10 Potentially. You know, of course, standing next to Trump, Netanyahu had no option other than to agree to all of this.

Speaker 10 He was always always going to have to do this, but there are lots of reports in Israeli media that his people were involved in the shaping of the plan.

Speaker 10 So it's also certain that there were no Palestinians involved in the shaping of the plan. And that is inherently, if you're trying to do a deal, is a weakness.

Speaker 10 So, you know, we will have to see exactly how it plays out. But

Speaker 10 if there was massive goodwill on both sides, you can make this thing work. But there is no goodwill on either side.
And that's, I I think, a big problem.

Speaker 6 You mentioned the Palestinian state being a key sticking point for the Israelis. What are the issues that Hamas won't like in this?

Speaker 10 Well, they won't like the fact they have to disarm. That's something which they're not prepared to do in the past.

Speaker 10 Do they think that they might be able to get away with somehow squirreling weapons away and keeping them? Well, perhaps.

Speaker 10 And I think they also, it also means that their military project would be they'd be accepting that it was over. And that's something that, you know,

Speaker 10 Hamas is an Arabic acronym for Islamic Resistance. They are an organization that is imbued with the idea of violent resistance and also of sacrifice and martyrdom against Israel.

Speaker 10 So will that mean that they will go quietly, the military side? I somehow doubt it.

Speaker 6 Our international editor, Jeremy Bowen.

Speaker 6 At least 38 people are missing after a school building collapse during construction work in Indonesia. Three students are confirmed dead.

Speaker 6 Rescuers have been using heavy equipment to search for survivors in the rubble, as tearful family members desperate for news crowded around the site. Nanang Sigit is leading the operation.

Speaker 12 The evacuation process is focusing on those who are still alive. We have to be extra careful because there is a possibility that the building could collapse further.

Speaker 12 I hear a lot of crying and shouting voices for the debris. It means they're still alive.

Speaker 6 The collapse of the school on the main Indonesian island of Java happened during afternoon prayers. Our Southeast Asia correspondent Jonathan Head told me more about the difficult rescue effort.

Speaker 2 Basically very heavy layers of concrete have simply pancaked one on top of the other. So it's an unstable structure.

Speaker 2 The rescue teams who are there have been in communication with at least one trapped student who they say they've managed to get food and water and oxygen to, but they believe there are at least 37 others underneath the rubble.

Speaker 2 They don't know whether they're alive or dead. So it's a very delicate operation and moving very slowly.
Indonesia rescue teams are pretty experienced. They deal with things like earthquakes a lot.

Speaker 2 So they're simply moving as best they can into the small spaces and trying to detect life and seeing if there's any way they can reach these people and then the problem is getting them out.

Speaker 2 It's a very difficult operation.

Speaker 6 And tell us more about what caused this to happen.

Speaker 2 Well according to the statement from the National Emergency Disaster Agency, they say that this Islamic boarding school, it's in a very cramped neighborhood in a town called Siduajo, near the city of Surabaya, in the eastern part of Java.

Speaker 2 There are an awful lot of these Islamic boarding schools there. It's a very deep, integral part of social structures there and culture.

Speaker 2 It's where an awful lot of, particularly young men, go to get education. This is an old one in this very narrow neighborhood.

Speaker 2 And they were building what appears to be a fourth floor on top of part of it. When you look at pictures of the building, it looked pretty raggedly built even before they started this extension.

Speaker 2 and they say as they were pouring concrete on this fourth floor the weight of it just caused the entire previous three floors just to collapse without warning and at that time there was this very large group of teenage boys engaged in afternoon prayers it's the time for the mid-afternoon Islamic prayer so all of them were caught up in this and what is the the safety record like of the construction industry in Indonesia It's mixed.

Speaker 2 You know, in small towns, often corners are cut. There are very limited budgets for construction.

Speaker 2 You usually find out in earthquakes, which are very frequent in Indonesia, which buildings are well built, and participating in these small towns, an awful lot of buildings do collapse.

Speaker 6 Our Southeast Asia correspondent Jonathan Head. Migrants from Haiti who've crossed into the Dominican Republic say they are hiding in the hills at night to avoid immigration raids.

Speaker 6 The Dominican president has pledged to deport all undocumented migrants.

Speaker 6 Many Haitians have fled poverty, violent gangs, and lawlessness back home and work in construction and the tourist industry in the Dominican Republic.

Speaker 6 Human rights activists say they are often being forced back across the border, regardless of their papers or whether they are minors.

Speaker 6 John Murphy reports from the Dominican Republic.

Speaker 13 The Dominican town of Comendador has one of four official crossing points into Haiti.

Speaker 13 On an average weekday, as many as 20 vehicles carrying around 800 people pass through here, expelling their cargo at the border. So we're trying to be a bit discreet.

Speaker 13 So I'm recording on my phone and we can see into Haiti a bunch of 4x4s, pretty beaten up ones and motorbikes.

Speaker 13 I've been warned not to take any photos or videos.

Speaker 13 The target for the Dominican Republic's president, Luis Abinader, is ambitious. He wants 10,000 undocumented migrants sent back to Haiti each week, irrespective of the violence and uncertainty there.

Speaker 13 Derival, who works works near the major tourist center of Punta Cana in the east of the country, says her 16-year-old daughter was taken by immigration agents without even being given time to get dressed.

Speaker 11 I was out at work in a local restaurant and the immigration people came and broke down the door and took my daughter away.

Speaker 11 I didn't find out until three in the afternoon when immigration had already taken her to the center in the capital. she spent four days there without being given anything to eat, or drink, or a wash.

Speaker 11 She slept on the floor and only had a t-shirt on. She didn't even have any shorts on.
That's all she was wearing when they took her away.

Speaker 13 Eventually, her uncle on the Haitian side of the border brought her daughter some clothes.

Speaker 13 Dereval says she can't afford to pay for her daughter to come back, and anyway, she's so afraid of the immigration raids, she rarely spends a full night at home, hiding in the nearby hills.

Speaker 11 Life up in the hills is very difficult and dangerous. There are armed men who steal our phones, steal our stuff if they can.

Speaker 11 There is no shelter in the mountains. I have to stand under trees, and sometimes I have to take the young children with me.

Speaker 13 Dereval was expelled once to Haiti, but paid smugglers the equivalent equivalent of 400 US dollars to come straight back.

Speaker 13 On another occasion during a raid, she bribed immigration officers to turn a blind eye. The government's constructing a barrier along the border, including in Comendador.

Speaker 13 Abraham is a Dominican who works for a non-governmental organization trying to help especially those who have been wrongly sent back to Haiti.

Speaker 13 The president talks about 10,000 people a week being expelled back to Haiti. Do you think those are the kind of numbers that they're reaching at the moment?

Speaker 13 He thinks yes. And do you think those people, are they staying in Haiti or are they coming back?

Speaker 3 I would calculate that around 50% of those who are deported return immediately. We know of people who have been counted several times.

Speaker 13 The President says it's the international community, not Dominicans, who should be doing more to help Haitians.

Speaker 13 And as he puts it, he remains committed to protecting his country and expelling all illegal migrants. For Haitians like De Reval, that means living in fear of immigration raids day and night.

Speaker 11 I am very, very frightened of the immigration people. And when I think about them, it gives me a headache.
It makes me feel ill.

Speaker 11 My heart beats so fast. I think I might die of a heart attack.

Speaker 6 That report from the Dominican Republic by John Murphy, and you can hear more in the BBC's documentary podcast.

Speaker 6 The Madagascan president, Ange Radzuel, has sacked the government after more than 20 people were killed in clashes between the security forces and protesters.

Speaker 6 President Radzuel promised a new administration within seven days, but the demonstrations, inspired by Gen Z protests in Indonesia and Nepal, have continued today.

Speaker 6 Raisa Youssef, a journalist based in the capital and Tana Narivo, told us what's behind the anger against the government.

Speaker 16 Power cuts and water cuts have only gotten worse and unbearable over the years.

Speaker 16 So when he first came in power, when he was a candidate for a presidential election in 2018, President Ratzuel had promised that if he came into power, he would put an end to power cuts in just a few months, but it's only gotten worse.

Speaker 16 And sometimes it's ups to 12 hours a day without electricity.

Speaker 16 And for water, it's so bad that people have to resort to go to public fountains to fill the infamous yellow containers that you sometimes see in pictures of people lining up in the streets for hours just to get that water.

Speaker 6 What did the protesters make of this decision to sack the government?

Speaker 16 So, basically, this movement was led by a Gen Z, apolitical youth-led movement. And after the speech of Radzuel yesterday, they said that it was too late.

Speaker 16 They said they were disappointed in the speech, and they said they were going to continue to not only ask for the end of power cuts and water cuts, but they also want an end to corruption.

Speaker 16 They want the prefect of Antonarivo to resign. And right now, it's more about the general management of the country than just power cuts and water cuts.

Speaker 6 Journalist Raiser Youssef in Madagascar talking to Rob Young.

Speaker 6 And still to come on the Global News podcast.

Speaker 17 I took some pictures of the place and I also got a good night's sleep in Hitler's bed. I even washed the dirt of Dachau off in his own tub.

Speaker 6 A new exhibition on the astonishing life of Second World War photographer Lee Miller.

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Speaker 6 The South African ambassador to France has been found dead in Paris a day after he was reported missing. Nkosinati Mtetetois fell from the 22nd floor of a hotel in the French capital.

Speaker 6 He'd recently been named in connection with an inquiry into political interference in the South African police service. Pumza Fihlani reports.

Speaker 14 Mr. Mtetois was reported missing by his wife on Monday evening after a quote worrying message from him, the Paris Prosecutor's Office has said.

Speaker 14 He booked a room on the 22nd floor whose security window was forced open, the Paris Prosecutor's Office added. Mr.
Mter served in several high-profile roles in the African National Congress

Speaker 14 and was the country's police minister under former President Jacob Zuma's administration between 2009 to 2014. The circumstances around his death are unclear at this stage.

Speaker 14 An investigation has been opened. French authorities have confirmed.

Speaker 6 Dog fighting is as secretive as it is barbaric, but a BBC investigation has identified key players in an illegal dog fighting network, described as one of the biggest in Europe.

Speaker 6 Journalist Patrick Fee spent six months undercover tracking down fighting kennels in unlikely places, from a busy housing estate to the grounds of a stately home here is his report I can't really put into words actually it was just golden

Speaker 22 Ross Middleton an animal crimes investigator couldn't believe his eyes when he stumbled onto a top secret chat forum one full of the people he's been hunting for years dog fighters all collaborating chatting sharing videos and it just gave us a real insight to the global perspective of dog fighting After a fight, you'll have thumbs up, you'll have 100% signs.

Speaker 22 It's quite upsetting to see.

Speaker 23 The posts in that forum were graphic. Users from across Europe and dogfighting kennels based here in the UK.

Speaker 24 It's much more common than people think. It hasn't died out.
Sadly, it's not part of the history books. It is going on in probably every major town and city.

Speaker 23 David Martin is an expert vet, experienced in dealing with dogfighting cases. He told us this brutal, illegal sport could be closer to home than you might think.

Speaker 24 Whilst people may see the status dog type thing, actually the organised fighting is still there. It's just much more out of sight.

Speaker 24 They don't want to walk their dogs down the high street to intimidate the local people. That's not something they're interested in.
They purely want to be the best in their inverted commas hobby.

Speaker 23 The lengths dog fighters will go to to be the best is shocking. We found members of the network buying fighting dogs from all over the world.

Speaker 24 They may well import the dog from America, parts of Eastern Europe, and even over from Russia.

Speaker 1 They will look to bring the best they can the same way the football market will look. They won't just look for buy their star striker from the UK.

Speaker 1 They'll go wherever they are they'll get them here if they can.

Speaker 23 As secretive as they are, dog fighters have one big weakness. They like to boast.

Speaker 23 I went undercover online pretending that I'm a dog fighter. After months I built up enough trust to buy a fighting dog.

Speaker 8 He should be here by now, but we'll give him a bit longer and just hope he hasn't gotten cold cheap.

Speaker 23 I agreed to meet the seller in Amsterdam.

Speaker 10 Here we go, this is him.

Speaker 25 Let's go.

Speaker 21 Steve.

Speaker 26 Need to take out the dog.

Speaker 25 Here he is.

Speaker 25 Good dog, yeah. Good dog.

Speaker 26 Very friendly and very actively matched.

Speaker 23 That's Zoltan Borb, filmed when I meet him undercover. He's one of the men behind the dog fighting kennels we've been investigating.

Speaker 23 He believes I'm a fellow dogfighter and tells me about his plans to fight again soon.

Speaker 18 Seventh match.

Speaker 25 Right?

Speaker 18 Yes, sixth time winner.

Speaker 25 Granted. Sixth time winner? Yes.
Don't get a lot of those.

Speaker 23 When I told him later that I was a journalist, Zoltan denied involvement in dog fighting. He said that it was made up to help sell dogs.
Then he deleted all of our messages.

Speaker 23 In fact, none of the people we identify in the network, in the UK, or further afield, admit to involvement in dogfighting.

Speaker 23 But now we have Ruby to take care of. She's scarred from her fights and needs a specialist handler.

Speaker 23 She does not like that.

Speaker 25 She does not like other dogs.

Speaker 23 We may never know how many dogs are suffering, but one thing is certain. Ruby's days in the fighting pit are over.

Speaker 6 Patrick Fee with that investigation. The war photographer, Lee Miller, had an extraordinary career.

Speaker 6 She started out as a model in the 1920s, but moved behind the camera and became one of the leading photographers of her day.

Speaker 6 A retrospective of her work opens this week at the Tate Britain here in London.

Speaker 6 Nicola Stanbridge went to meet her son and granddaughter at their family home, where Lee's photography archive was discovered after her death.

Speaker 27 Up into the attic of Farley's house, East Sussex with Anthony Penrose. It smells like the water tank room in here.

Speaker 15 It is the water tank room, and this is the extraordinary thing, because the entire collection of photography was stashed in here.

Speaker 15 Putting it underneath the water tank is a very, very lucky thing to get away with.

Speaker 27 Son of Lee Miller, the model and artist turned war correspondent and photographer, who moved here in 1949 with husband Roland Penrose, turning it into a base for surrealist artists and their work visited by Manre, Picasso, and others.

Speaker 15 We are still unearthing interesting shots from them.

Speaker 15 There was, of course, the really excoriatingly tough pictures of the liberation of Dachau and Buchenwald, other war pictures as well.

Speaker 15 But then there were a great many portraits of artists and then there was more general things of places and now it's of historical value. When we see the Egypt work, it is her choice.

Speaker 15 It is just her Surrealist-inspired eye that is giving us those pictures. And I think it is one of the most exciting sections of the whole work.

Speaker 27 Lee died in 1977, but you didn't really leave this house entirely, and it's now the Lee Miller Archive, where you've been dispatching her images and photographs to shows like The Tate, together with your daughter, Amy Bou Hussain.

Speaker 27 How do you choose photographs for these exhibitions?

Speaker 28 We've been working on with The Tate for six years, as well as sixty thousand negatives and twenty thousand vintage prints, we also have about twenty thousand pages of Lee's original manuscripts, her film captions, we have her diaries, clothes, and things like that.

Speaker 28 So all of this kind of ephemera that goes around the images helps to build the picture.

Speaker 27 So some of the famous works in the show you also have here, like Hitler's Bathtub, 1945.

Speaker 15 This is probably one of the best known images of Lee. She's sitting in Hitler's bath the morning of this day she had witnessed the liberation of Dachau.

Speaker 27 Lee Miller described that experience to CBS in 1946.

Speaker 17 You see, I went in the day they took Munich. I've been carrying Hitler's Munich address around in my pocket for years, and finally I had a chance to use it.

Speaker 17 He had so recently been there that his private telephone wires were still operating, and one of the soldiers picked up the phone.

Speaker 17 I took some pictures of the place, and I also got a good night's sleep in Hitler's bed. I even washed the dirt of Dachau off in his own tub.

Speaker 28 She was very determined and very driven, despite everything that was stacked against her, particularly her gender. Of course, she had no training, so when she goes to St.

Speaker 28 Marlow and she is literally the only journalist there, she has no idea what to do. You're with her through it.

Speaker 28 I unrolled my Ida down on a bed in the back room, shoving barracks bags over to one side, and slept so well that the hundreds of flies and bed bug bites didn't matter.

Speaker 28 Once or twice, I woke for near misses. Once Captain woke me up to get onto the floor as they were obviously aiming at the street.

Speaker 15 She said being a photographer is like getting out on a limb and sawing it off behind you. And I think she had the capacity to learn very fast.
and she did.

Speaker 15 And that's what made her as great as she was.

Speaker 6 Antony Penrose, son of Lee Miller, ending that report by Nicholas Stanbridge. Finally, let me take you back to a sound from the 1990s and early 2000s.

Speaker 6 Well, for younger listeners, that was the way we used to get onto the internet, dialing up through a phone line.

Speaker 6 But today marks the end of an era as America Online is finally shutting down its dial-up service. Back in the day, AOL was the world's biggest internet provider with tens of millions of subscribers.

Speaker 6 TechLife's Imran Rahman Jones caught up with AOL co-founder Steve Case, who described the memories evoked by that sound.

Speaker 8 It reminds me of what was a great time when we started America Online AOL 40 years ago. Nobody knew about the internet.
I think only 3% of people were connected.

Speaker 8 They're only on like an hour a week, so it's super early. And we slowly but surely kind of built a medium that I think we could be proud of.
And the team did a great job.

Speaker 8 Obviously, many other companies did it as well.

Speaker 8 And that modem sound, you know, some people called it the screeching modem sound, but for us, it had a warmer, fuzzier feel because it was just a reminder that we were getting people to believe in the idea of the internet and be part of helping build the internet.

Speaker 6 You said those dial-up days represented accessibility, possibility, and the early spirit of online community. So what was that early spirit to you?

Speaker 8 Well, the early spirit was basically: we saw the internet as a way to connect people to each other, connect them to information and

Speaker 8 education, all kinds of different tools and resources. 40 years ago, that seemed kind of fanciful to most, almost futuristic science fiction.
But we really believed that someday

Speaker 8 the internet really would be a medium. We even talked in those early days about someday the internet would be as important as the television or telephone.
Now, looking back,

Speaker 8 we should have shot higher because it's now more important than the television or the telephone. Indeed, it has integrated those industries into the internet.

Speaker 8 So it really was about just creating this medium and trying to get people to believe there was value in being connected, that value to getting online.

Speaker 8 And it took a while, partly because when it got started, it was expensive to be online and there wasn't a lot of content and there weren't many people to talk to.

Speaker 8 It really was kind of an early phase, but eventually, slowly but surely over a decade, you know, it went from something that most people didn't know about or care about to something that everybody wanted to be part of.

Speaker 8 And that's when the internet really kind of exploded in the late 1990s.

Speaker 6 And do you think we're in a kind of different era to that now? Does it feel like a different place?

Speaker 8 Yes and no. I mean, I think the internet itself has gotten to the point where it's kind of taken for granted.

Speaker 8 And I always said even those early days, that would be a real sign that the internet has arrived.

Speaker 8 People just assume that they're going to grab their phone, they're going to be connected, they will have the ability to access things.

Speaker 8 Maybe there's a little bit of an echo now with what's happening with AI. A lot of interest now in AI in the last two, three years, partly because of ChatGPT's success.

Speaker 8 People are now kind of really curious about AI, more fascinated with what's now possible.

Speaker 8 And we're now starting to see significant investment, almost a gold rush mentality with the AI, much as we saw with the internet several decades ago. But things kind of move on.

Speaker 8 And part of what having dial-up go away is a little bit bittersweet because of those you know memories of those early days you know 40 years ago when we were just getting started but certainly i understand there's a march of technology a march of progress and you you got to keep moving forward steve case and for more on that famous dial up tone and why it sounded like it did check out tech life wherever you get your bbc podcasts

Speaker 6 And that's all from us for now, but the Global News podcast will be back very soon. This edition was mixed by Vladimir Muzetchka and produced by Chantel Hartle and Stephanie Zacherson.

Speaker 6 Our editors, Karen Martin, I'm Oliver Conway. Until next time, goodbye.

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