Dating Apps Are Broken—Inner Circle is the Fix! Find Love Using this Innovative App (Featuring David Vermeulen)

I read this quote from you. You wrote, Tinder became a little like McDonald's.
It's addictive and you want more, but as soon as you consume it, you feel sick. All right, welcome back to the How to Get a Girlfriend podcast.
I'm your host, dating coach Conal Barrett. I'm here to help you learn to flirt, get a great girlfriend, and do it with authenticity

and integrity.

No sketchy pickup artist moves needed.

And speaking of integrity and authenticity, we have a pretty great special guest for this

episode.

My guest today is David Vermeulen.

David is the founder and CEO of Inner Circle, the global dating app for ambitious singles, just like you, seeking real connections. He launched it over a decade ago in Amsterdam, and now Inner Circle has grown to have more than 2.5 million members.
It's in 30 countries, more than 30 countries, and it's in cities like New York, London, and Paris. And the cool thing about it is that Inner Circle is not just a swiping app, quote unquote.
It taps into members' lifestyles and who they are as people, because David is about believing that the real magic happens offline, not on a dating app. And the other thing that's cool about the app, and we're going to talk about this a lot, is Inner Circle also hosts exclusive events in real life so that like-minded people can meet and mingle.
So check out their Instagram, at Inner Circle CO, for a peek into their events and their community. You can also go to their website, about.theinnercircle.co.
David, welcome to the How to Get a Girlfriend podcast.

Thanks for having me, Conal. Really exciting to be on your podcast.
Your intro is so long, we might need to do two parts. Part one for your intro, part two for the rest of it.
But yeah, I'm really excited to talk to you because I don't have very many podcast people on my, I should say, dating app experts on my podcast because I don't like a lot of them. But what I love about Inner Circle is that you are helping men and women solve some very common relatable problems like the problem that you had back in the day.
You were struggling, as I understand it, with things like bad dates or just not finding the kind of women who shared your interest back in the early, maybe circa 2011, 2012. Talk a little bit about the dating problems you were struggling with and how that led to you beginning Inner Circle.
Yeah, well, everything starts with a company with the problem you personally have.

And at that moment in 2012, I was single.

I was living in London.

And it was for me difficult to meet somebody at work,

but also in the pub with the English women were not really approachable.

So I thought, let's give it a try online. At that moment, it was only websites.
There was no Tinder launched yet. Well, at least it didn't have a big breakthrough.
So I was going on different websites. But, I mean, if you looked at the pictures, it was most of the times too good to be true.
And if it's be true it's too good to be true and also the names like butterfly 69 I mean it was really difficult to actually find a normal to have a normal chat conversation and it took me hours and then in the end you went on the actual date and it was not as a success so I thought I want to create something that actually I would use and who do I want to meet and that was for me like the big the big turnaround like I want to meet somebody that

i in my inner circle that is like me like-minded somebody that shares the same lifestyle same values and how can i do that and that was the beginning of first website and later on the app Do you have a first date horror story?

Or just the pattern that you saw where you were, I don't know,

matching with or communicating with women

and maybe they weren't the right age or the right type.

Did you have your moment where you said,

okay, I need a different dating app?

Yeah, there's quite some horror stories. You have to go through them.
You learn. For example, in my opinion, you should not chat too long and go offline relatively soon because the magic happens in real life.
But if you are chatting with somebody, you're going to draw a picture of how this person looks like. And that's based on the photos.
And basically what I learned is that if you look at the photos, it's always the best four pictures of the last 12 years.

So if you think about that,

it was not really always the most pleasant experience in the beginning.

So what I'm hearing you say is round about 2012,

you're looking at photos of some women who were celebrating the millennium from 2000. Exactly.
Oh boy. Yeah.
We've all been there. Yes.
Yeah. And it was, I mean, the quality of the pictures was really not good.
And it was also really fishy. So there were also like scammers on all these websites.
It was really, really a bad experience.

People asking for money over the chat.

So for me, it was like, oh my God, this is not what you want.

This is not where you want to spend your subscription money on.

Is it fair to say that if somebody were to join Inner Circle

and he is communicating with a woman,

she is going to be pretty much what he sees?

Thank you. somebody were to join inner circle and he is communicating with a woman she is going to be pretty much what he sees well i mean you can't guarantee it obviously but high likelihood we

hope yeah yeah so we have like um a face uh recognition tool that we integrated in the app so

and that compares

your real

photo with

your profile

photo that

you upload

and that

you show

Thank you. recognition tool that we integrated in the app.
So, um, and that's your real photo with your profile photo that you upload and that you're showing. So there are some, uh, tools where we try to hope that the person that's on inner circles also really that person.
Um, and yeah, it is, uh, we also have recommendations so people don't invite their friends so we can also see, okay, this is like genuine. Yeah, I actually logged on to your dating app today.
I went through the process of signing up. I'm still waiting for approval.
No pressure. All right, I will fix it.
I will fix it. I do have a girlfriend, so I'm just there for research purposes.
So if that excludes me, I understand. No harm.
But no, it was really easy to do the facial recognition technology, and that just made me feel so good putting myself in the shoes of a single man. I remember thinking, great, I love knowing that this is the real me women are going to see, because I want to know as a single man that that woman I'm talking to is probably highly likely going to be the woman I actually meet in real life.
Yeah exactly and I mean that's what's all about I mean real people and and the magic happens in the real world but it helps if the person online is also that person. I think that inner Circle was way ahead of the game, was innovating years ahead of what other apps are doing right now.
Because what's really cool about what you started doing years ago was you basically said, hey, let's marry, let's put together these two ideas of an app-based connection, but marry it to real life, to meeting in real life. Some other people are doing that, but I feel like your team is doing it ahead of the game.
I just think that's really innovative. Can you talk about why in-person is so important? Yeah.
I mean if you really want to make it work it only can happen in real life so you have to meet that person and you can fall in love somebody online but that's that's not real real love and with inner circle we really wanted to create an opportunity for our members, not only through our app, so we also are hosting events. And this is something we do from day one, and we really see that this is helping so many people meeting somebody.
and an event for some it's a's a bit of a hurdle. But in the end, I mean, if you're single and you go to drinks or you go to a wine tasting or a gallery with a group of singles, you have to work.
So, I mean, here, don't stand alone at the bar waiting until somebody approaches you. You have to work.
But it's worth it. That's the hurdle you mentioned, right? For some men, for some people? Yeah.
If you go to these events, I mean, you go alone. And, well, it feels a bit uncomfortable because, well, you go to a singles event singles event right and then if you're there you don't know anybody so you have to not everybody is comfortable with that so you have to be step a little bit out of your comfort zone right but it will pay off i'm naturally introverted i host a podcast and i had to learn how to approach women and work on myself for years and years.
But I am a card-carrying introvert. I'm much more comfortable being kind of quiet and alone.
Do you have any advice for the introverted male single guy who's like, oh man, meeting women in real life, I don't know, that seems pretty scary. what would you say to that gentleman yeah i would say like um find something you can bond over um that takes that makes you tick so for example you you create podcast you know talk about what podcast do you like because this is what you genuinely love and by talking about these shared passions, it will definitely break the ice.
So for an introvert, I would really recommend to do that. And it feels a bit uncomfortable, especially in the beginning.
But if you're talking about something you love, it will make it much more easy. Well, if you're getting out of your comfort zone, you're doing the right thing as a single guy.
If I had to boil my whole teaching philosophy down for my clients and also the listener of this podcast, I say, go out and take authentic, courageous, uncomfortable action. Because that's where your love is waiting for you on the other end of a certain amount of steps.
And some of those steps are going to be scary, especially if you're an introverted man. Yeah.
And for the long term, I do believe that in the beginning, it's a little bit of a role playing because it's not who you are, genuine. And it's also if you meet somebody, I always say, if you really want to find out if it's the one, don't judge it on the first date.
Because the first date, people are uncomfortable. People are playing a role and they are doing more than their best.
And that's not how they normally are. But if you want to really meet somebody, you have to meet this person maybe a second or a third time.
Talk a little bit, if you would, about some of the successes you have seen people on your dating app have. Do you have any stories? Do you have any poster boys or girls for some of the kinds of wins you've seen? Because this is all about finding love and finding somebody.
Yeah, well, I mean, there's a lot of success stories we have at the headquarters at Inner Circle. We have a whole wall with baby cards and wedding cards.
So it is really, really working. And, I mean, they all met on Inner Circle.
And sometimes you'll hear a really cool stories. So we had an event in Paris and there was a girl actually on a date.
She was living in London, he was living in Paris and he said we have this event and she said well I live in London and I mean he thought this could be the one and he said well the The train London to Paris it's about two and a half hours I will buy the train ticket we go to the inner circle event and let's have drinks there so that was the first date was an at an inner circle event and I mean she went she stayed for two more days and then so I mean and now they are married they have two kids so it is yeah i mean it's a bit persistent but um i mean those stories and that's also nice that the love most of the times it's always within your city within your range but also for people that travel because we have a lot of people that travel they also use it a lot for this how does it feel as somebody who has cultivated people coming together and finding love to know that you've helped bring children to the world and brought couples together that must feel fantastic i would i would i'm sure it does right i mean i can't imagine if that there's better job than that. I mean, it's like you really, really make impact in a positive way.
So you change the course of someone's life. Yeah.
I remember in the mid-teens, I'd been coaching for about a year, and one of my very first clients sent me a picture of his new baby. And I thought, I did that.
Wow. I helped.
Not in a kinky way. I wasn't in the room, but I helped.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then you suddenly, I mean, you don't stand still too many times, but that's the moment to stand still until you actually see the impact, the positive impact that you created.
Did you celebrate it? Probably not as much as I should have. But I still remember it to this day.
It's been over 10 years. It's been about 10 years now, come to think of it.
10 years exactly, I brought my first baby into the world, in a way. I'm probably never never gonna have my own other than becoming a dog dad but it felt it felt incredible to help people meet the right way and it was just a priceless bonus of being a coach and I imagine being somebody who's helping millions of people try to find love and often they do that's got to feel pretty incredible so it's great to have that kind of purpose, I would think.
Yeah, no, definitely, definitely. Let's go back to your dating journey.
So you had these problems, not meeting the kind of women you wanted. Butterfly 47 was born in 1947.
That's not what you were looking for. Tell us a little bit about your breakthrough moment, whether it's a great date you had, or maybe you just started to figure out, hey, here I am having the kind of success.
Whether you were dating on Inner Circle, or whether you were just seeing people succeed on Inner Circle, what did you start seeing happen in your dating life in a good way? So when we launched, we did only um that people on it could invite their friends so i launched with a really really small group because i had about maybe 20 30 people that i knew that were single and they all invited their friends and this was um first of all i didn't had the marketing money to make a big boom. And I wanted to keep it also like Inner Circle, the name.
I wanted to keep it really small. But the moment it became big was actually in the first few months, everybody that signed on Inner Circle, and that's something something we still do is we check the profiles to see if they're real genuine and the moment we got bigger and then you know you're on to something we started to get like crazy profiles that I just described on the other websites and then you know okay if these crazy people also want to be on it, then suddenly you realize this could, you know, this could become big.
But at the same time, we decided to stay really, really small and not let anybody in. And what you then see is that it really pays off because the people on it were talking to me like this.
I've never seen something like this before. I mean, the people on it, they actually respond.
They are real. Yeah.
They put intentions. And if people talk about that to you, then you know, okay, this actually works.
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Do your customers, and I have not yet used the app, I'm not going to as a single person, I have a girlfriend, but if I was on your app as a single man, would I be able to meet women without having to go to an event or must you do the in-person meetups for that to happen now you can also meet one-on-one through the app so what we do we want to match also through shared lifestyle so we work a little bit different than the other apps right it's not only sw swiping but for example the people in the circle they love going out they love food they share their top restaurants and then you can also see other people that go to the same places the same restaurants people love to travel so you can share i'm going for example to la these are the dates and then you can share is anybody up for a date people in la see who's coming to la and they read that so it's much more about these um yeah shared lifestyles that people uh connect over then it's like i see a picture like you have a match. Yeah, I'm so glad you said that because I want to quote you.
I found something you said that I loved. I read this quote from you.
You wrote, Tinder became a little like McDonald's. It's addictive and you want more, but as soon as you consume it, you feel sick.
And I assume that you meant it is kind of fun or addictive to swipe, swipe, swipe. Oh, she liked me.
She didn't. What might happen here? But gosh, it does feel a little bit like when I'm using Tinder when I was single, but also for my job.
Afterwards, I feel like I'm walking out of a casino and I've been pulling the one-armed bandit. It doesn't feel good for me.
Is that what you meant? Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it's like you can swipe, swipe, swipe.
And at one moment, it's like there's almost no feeling. It's like, like, dislike, like, like, dislike, dislike, like, match, okay, whatever, like, like.
And then you type, hey, and you continue. So I think that also on Inner Circle, we spent quite some time on creating rich profiles because you have to put a bit of effort.
If you want to date somebody, you have to to put effort into it and we basically really believe that profiles with good pictures but also telling about yourself what do you like what do you don't like where do you go out all these kind of things that it will make the matching and the conversation starter also much easier yeah when, when I was signing up for your app today, just for practice, the prompts that were asking me to upload a new photo, it said, hey, now how about a photo of you with your favorite animal or your dog? Hey, how about one where you're smiling or you're doing your favorite hobby? So it was, I had to put in a little bit more effort than i would with some other app but it wasn't so much effort i didn't want to do it it was engaging yeah yeah it was a pretty quick sign up but i had to put in the effort but hey you want people who are trying right yeah yeah and what you also now notice that you're now on the waiting list so we have a whole team of screeners checking your profile, looking into it if you're saying who you are. So that's also part of what Inner Circle makes Inner Circle.
So we don't want to grow towards the 100 million plus users as a Tinder bumble. That's not who we are.
Yeah. No, I love that the philosophy is it's not about quantity.
It's about quality and ultimately that one person who you really connect with and feel the same way about. Exactly.
You only need to find one person. Right.
I met my girlfriend, Jess, on a different app. I won't mention it, but the vibe is the same.
It's not about a million likes and matches. It's about, let's find somebody really great for you because it only takes one.
It really does.

Exactly. Exactly.
Yeah. I want to talk a little bit more about the experience of using Inner Circle.
So you're on the app. What are some of the features on the app itself that you have found your customer base enjoys? What are some of the bells and whistles that people are going to experience when they're on the app on their way to potentially meeting somebody special? Yeah, so we have a section where you can add your lifestyle.
So, for example, if you are a runner, but it's not only we ask if you are a runner, but also where do you run? So do you run in Central Park or do you run in a different park? And by going a bit deeper into those lifestyles, because then people see like-minded people because they also love running, they also go to the fitness and we don't say, you don't ride fitness but we also ask, okay, so what fitness chain, where do you go? And the fitness chain, it says so much about you. The festivals, people are going, not I love music but which festivals do you love and do you go to?

And by bringing that into the app, we also see like smaller communities of people that go to certain festivals, connect with each other before festivals, because they know that they are going as well. So it becomes also because dating is one-on-one, but people also, especially also in Brazil, we are really big in Brazil, and there are communities around the Inner Circle app where people also host their own drinks, host wine events, because people love wine and they see it in the app and their contact.
I'm doing this in this if you want you can join that's great i'm a big fan of what two two important concepts that inner circle does i completely endorse and i do in my own way is quality over quantity and also going out and enjoying life and finding people who feel the same way about things and having a social circle, people who share some of your interests in a social circle. I love how inner circle is, I assume, partially inspired by the idea of finding somebody from your social circle because if you meet somebody at the runner's club that you both are part of, you're going to have that shared passion.
Or you meet somebody at the cooking class you both took, you have at least one thing in common, and you might have something else in common. Exactly, exactly.
That's what it's all about. Yeah.
It's so much easier. I tell my clients, I say, let's get you on whatever dating apps you want to be on.
But remember, the right social circle match, quote unquote, somebody you meet through a shared interest is worth 10 matches on a given dating app. They're one of the basic, more well-known dating apps, like the quote unquote biggest ones.
But man, I'd much rather have a guy with two or three really great quality options and that he then chooses a great girlfriend than 50 matches that all flake or aren't what he

wants.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

It takes so much time.

Yeah.

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Let's have a little bit of fun. I like to try to have a little playful fun on the pod just because I think playfulness is a big part of dating.
So let me ask you a couple questions and we'll see what you come up with. Let's do it.
One of the questions I have for you is I did a little research on you because I'm a spy and I know that you have ties to the hague and which is of course the city of international law and justice so here's a fun question for you if you were the chief justice of online dating the king of online dating the big boss and if you could decree some new laws that every dater has to follow what would one or two of those laws be? Well, I would say a law that the person that's on the dating app is also the real person. So if the government finds out, or the international justice in The Hague finds out, you will get fined.
Because then dating, the stigma of dating would be so much better. So that would be for me like the number one law, like real people.
Yeah, mine would be your photos have to be less than 20 years old.

Let's say one year.

How about that?

Yeah.

And on top of that,

that's definitely maximum one year old.

Yeah.

There you go.

One year old max.

Oh, gosh.

So quick horror story.

Not horror story,

but funny story.

I coached a man who lives in Nova Scototia and i won't i won't say his name but he came to me he's roughly my age 50 ish and he came to me and he said connell all these women i'm matching with them but they they lose interest once we do a once we meet up either a video date or an in real life date I looked at his profile. It was from the late 90s.
I am not kidding. Mid-20s.
And he's 50. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And just my jaw dropped, and I said, yeah, we need something. How about something from this century? Yeah.
Is it difficult for him then? Well well he was fine after that

he just didn't understand

that you

I think of online dating

purely at least to start

we're marketing ourselves right

you're a former marketer right

Maxim, FHM

you've got this marketing experience

I just think okay your profile is a piece of digital marketing

but you can market yourself in an honest way

otherwise it's kind of false advertising

Thank you. marketing experience uh i just think okay your profile is a piece of digital marketing but you can market yourself in an honest way yeah otherwise it's kind of false advertising yeah and it's like you sell yourself you oversell yourselves based on your profile and then people meet you in real life i mean yeah that's not that's not gonna end well yeah okay next question is maybe go back to your dating past if you want to or maybe something you notice somebody else what is the most out there piece of dating advice that you know has actually worked at least for some people yeah for me the best dating advisors really take into account that on a first date people are a bit nervous and maybe they laugh a little bit too hard.
They are not really comfortable because for them it's also new and exciting and it's a bit bit scary so I really really would say give it try to know the person through these like little crazy things maybe and and on a second date I'm always I say try to do a second date if you're not sure because on on a second date, people are more relaxed because they already know the person.

And it worked for me also.

Personally, the second date was a success.

The first date was a horror show.

Okay, horror show.

From horror show first date to a good second date.

Yeah, I was nervous. I was talking way too much hardly listening and then my girlfriend said a second date i'm not sure well i will second that tip with a really quick story i once had a first date and i wasn't nervous at least not that nervous but she was on her phone she was not paying a lot of she wasn't being really present and i made the mistake of assuming she wasn't interested in me and i actually ended the date too soon i basically said hey it looks like you're not that into this so why don't we end it and i'm going home that night and i'm thinking wait a, wait a second.
Did I jump the gun here? And long story short, I texted her. I called her.
I said, I think I overreacted, and I apologized. She said, yeah, I was just nervous.
We had a second date, and it went so much better. So I think your advice is great.
Nice. Yeah.
This is exactly how it is people are people

we're not perfect

we get nervous

I'm a big fan of

getting

we talk about the Hague and being in a court

getting proof one way or another

whether or not that person wants to see you again

don't make any assumptions

you never know

a lot of my clients say

I'm not going to ask her out again

she wasn't into me

Thank you. If Inner Circle was a person, a single person that had its own dating profile on Inner Circle, what would the opening prompt say? You know, that first line that would make people think, wow, I really need to meet this dating app.
Yeah, that's a good question. Well, it would be something like ambitious, adventurous, and here for real connections.
That would be like the first sentence. Nice.
And also, don't bother if you only want to chat. Don't bother what? If you only want to chat.
Oh, right. Yeah.
Right. Because I as I mentioned i believe the magic happens in real life so like let's take it offline i like that ambitious adventurous and looking for a real connection yeah that sounds like a great prompt that sounds like a great philosophy to live one's dating life by two more topics and we'll wrap things up david my philosophy is all about being authentic putting your real vulnerable self out there your best self but your real self can you give me your opinion on what you see works on inner circle in terms of people being authentic vulnerable real do you see value in really showing that real true you? Oh, definitely, definitely.

I mean, we try to encourage people, for example,

around the lifestyles, not only say

that you are part of this one club or you go running there,

but also show it so people can upload the picture.

And this is what we see. This is the true self picture and this is what we see this is the true

self and this is so authentic instead of you posing like the same poses in every same picture but the picture still lots so if you have those pictures you playing a sport, traveling traveling, hiking or whatever. Upload these pictures and it's definitely something other people would like.
I love it. You just said something really insightful that I want to underline which is show versus tell.
I remember in high school my English essay teacher would say oh don't just tell me something connell show me give me an example so it's one thing to say i like hiking but how about a photo that shows a beautiful rocky mountain backdrop on that incredible rocky mountain hike you were on or don't just say i like to dance show a picture picture of you grooving on the dance floor at the wedding. That's my version of show, not tell.
Yeah, and to be honest, reading is still something that's difficult for people. Everybody looks immediately at the photos also.
So, I mean photos you can tell a lot of you can tell your story yeah exactly photos are about giving a visual narrative as to who you are and what it might be like to date that person yeah let's finish with a big lesson that you've learned about dating. A deep, big insight.
I always like to finish the interview here with what's one of the most insightful, deepest truths you've learned about dating, something that the man listening to this has never heard before. What can you share with us, David? I would say that in the end, it sounds like a no-brainer but I really believe in it.
It's like opposites don't attract. So if you think about it, if you're looking for something serious for the long term, you want to be with somebody, a like-minded person that shares your interests, your lifestyles, your values.
And this is what I genuinely believe in, that that's like the key. So also the whole foundation of Inner Circle, the name Inner Circle, is also based on that.
So I really, really think that finding somebody like-minded is the key to success fantastic i want you to i want to give you the final word here for people who want to learn more about inner circle where should they go should they go to instagram are there other places other resources you would send them to where can where can our listener check out Check out for more information about inner circle well definitely of course on the website the inner circle.com and of course if you're curious you want to try it out you're welcome of course to download the app in the google or ios play store and yeah give it a go I mean, I think it can, if you're looking for something serious and you believe in opposite zone to attract, try that. Well said.
David, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. Thank you for creating a really great dating app that lets people meet in real life and makes us about real connection and finding equally like-minded and ambitious people.
I wish there were a lot more dating apps like this. Thanks a lot.
Thanks a lot, Gamo. And thank you so much for listening.
And remember, please don't just be a passive listener of this podcast. Go out there.
Take action. Make some moves.
And here is your mission for today's pod. I would love for you to go and check out the Inner Circle Instagram, download the app if this philosophy appeals to you, and get out there and take some action.
Because your dream girlfriend, she's out there, and she already is into you. But for her to fall in love

with you, she's going to have to meet the real authentic you. And that means taking action.
So

go out there. Carpe datum.
Seize the date. Until next time.