Bestselling Author Dr. Robert Glover on How to Confidently Meet Women without Being Too Nice (Encore Episode)

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the How to Get a Girlfriend podcast. I'm your host, dating coach Connell Barrett.

Speaker 1 I help men learn to flirt, gain confidence, and of course, get a great girlfriend, all by being radically authentic, being your best true self. And thank you so much for being here for Relaunch Week.

Speaker 1 This podcast used to be called Dating Dating Transformation. And I've changed some things, made some adjustments, and we are now the How to Get a Girlfriend podcast.

Speaker 1 And I hope you've been listening to the last five episodes because over the last five episodes, I've shared five puzzle pieces for how you can get a great girlfriend.

Speaker 1 So the last five episodes, if you've listened to them, thank you. If you haven't, go back and check some of them out.

Speaker 1 The first episode is all about radical authenticity and why that's what women want. And there's an episode all about flirting.

Speaker 1 In my last episode, I had my girlfriend on, my amazing girlfriend Jessamine, and I talked about our first date and how she and I got on the path to becoming boyfriend and girlfriend.

Speaker 1 And anyway, the last five episodes, all the puzzle pieces are there for what you need to get a great girlfriend. And I wanted to finish Relaunch Week with...

Speaker 1 a special episode featuring an amazing, iconic thought leader. His name is Dr.
Robert Glover. He wrote a best-selling book called No More Mr.

Speaker 1 Nice Guy that sold a bazillion copies and is still selling copies. And he's also the author of a great book called Dating Essentials for Men.
And Dr. Robert Glover is all about No More Mr.
Nice Guy.

Speaker 1 It's all about understanding why and how many men put on a mask with women and put on a false, supplicating, quote-unquote nice guy persona that is inauthentic, that women don't like.

Speaker 1 And if you are one of those men who puts on a mask, who comes across, comes across as overly nice, falsely, supplicatingly nice, then I'll bet you've struggled with some problems like the friend zone or having women say, hey, you're a nice guy, but I'm going to go hook up with this cool charismatic guy over here.

Speaker 1 Sorry. So if you struggle with those things, this is a great episode for you.
I had a great conversation with Dr. Glover basically way back in the very first first days of this podcast.
Dr.

Speaker 1 Glover came on and we had a great conversation. So I'm going to do a replay of that for you in two minutes.
So I hope you listened to the whole episode. It's all about

Speaker 1 how to not be a fake nice guy and how to be a lot more confident with women and putting that true, real best self out there. So I hope you listen to the whole episode.
It's definitely worth it. Dr.

Speaker 1 Glover is a true, frankly, he's a genius. He really is a genius in the area of helping men go from struggling with shame and lack of self-worth to a lot of confidence and true worth in themselves.

Speaker 1 All that said, if you don't have time to go through and listen to every word of the episode, here is the TLDR version. I'm going to suggest you go to a couple spots in particular.

Speaker 1 There's a great moment at the 19 minute and 57 second mark. where Dr.
Glover talks about what nice guy syndrome is and how it could be hurting your love life.

Speaker 1 also at the 34 minute mark there's a part where he talks about why indian men and asian men struggle with dating in the u.s

Speaker 1 he's really articulate about why men of those ethnic backgrounds can really struggle with dating in america and i know this as well i've coached a lot of men of indian and asian backgrounds and so he's right on the money there and then i think my favorite part comes at the 50 minute mark 50 minutes and 22 seconds where dr Glover gives his formula for what he calls loving dominance.

Speaker 1 I love that term, loving dominance. My term for that, before I ever heard his term, is positive dominance or assertive dominance.

Speaker 1 Basically, it's about being a kind, loving, good man, but also a man of strength and backbone, because women want both.

Speaker 1 They want muscle, metaphorically speaking, and they also want heart, heart and muscle, steel and heart. And Dr.
Glover's term for that is loving dominance.

Speaker 1 And he talks about that formula for creating that because that is absolutely what women want. So enjoy this episode.
Enjoy Dr. Robert Glover waxing eloquent.
It was a great, fun, lively discussion.

Speaker 1 And without further ado, here is Dr. Robert Glover.
Enjoy. Don't you just love a woman with a really elegant, amazing accent like that? Hey, what's up? Connell Barrett here.

Speaker 1 Welcome to the Dating Transformation Podcast. This is our very first episode.

Speaker 1 You are on the maiden voyage of learning how to gain self-confidence, flirt, and find an amazing girlfriend, and to do this all with authenticity as your real best self.

Speaker 1 Not some pickup artist, not some guy who's just reciting a bunch of lines from

Speaker 1 YouTube or Reddit.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so who am I? Well, my name's Connell Barrett. I'm a dating coach for men.
Basically, I am hitch. If Will Smith was a skinny ginger with glasses,

Speaker 1 except I would never slap Chris Rock. I would never do that to Chris.
I love Chris.

Speaker 1 And I'm so glad you're here. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 Stick around because by the time you're done listening to this episode, you're going to get some game-changing tips to help you overcome your fear of rejection, to become more confident and authentic, and also to get on the path of meeting your dream girlfriend.

Speaker 1 So stick around. You're going to get three game-changing tips later in the show.
And I'm going to give you a really good tip actually right now.

Speaker 1 But first, let me start by

Speaker 1 doing a little psychic mind reading. I'm going to read your mind, okay? Here I go.

Speaker 1 Not literally, by the way, but who knows, maybe. I'm going to guess that you

Speaker 1 want to approach women. You want to feel more confident.
You want to get more dates. You would love to have a real nice abundance of dating options.

Speaker 1 And eventually get a great girlfriend who you choose from some wonderful options.

Speaker 1 But I'm also going to guess that there's some things that hold you back, right?

Speaker 1 Maybe you doubt that the kinds of women you're attracted to are in your league. Or maybe you struggle with what to say.
Maybe you don't approach.

Speaker 1 Maybe you have just never had the kind of quality dates, quality women, quality relationships that you've always wanted.

Speaker 1 And then if you're anything like I used to be, there might be some occasional really dark moments when you just wonder, do women even like me?

Speaker 1 Am I ever going to find the one? Am I ever going to find love and find someone who loves me for me?

Speaker 1 And that's what this podcast is here to help you do. To gain confidence, find love, and help you understand that, hell yeah,

Speaker 1 you're enough.

Speaker 1 The big bad wolf here with dating, a lot of guys think, oh, you know what?

Speaker 1 I need to just meet girls. I need to find out where they are.
Or I don't know what to say. Or I just need the right lines.
And sure, it's good having the right flirtatious lines.

Speaker 1 But really the main enemy here, The thing that you really want to overcome is self-doubt and lacking confidence in in your yourself because when you go through life when you go through your dating life doubting yourself and just lacking that self-belief then

Speaker 1 you end up in a lot of pain or you can right you can get friend zoned

Speaker 1 what

Speaker 1 what are women attracted to more than anything else arguably i would say it's confidence so if you have that self-doubt and low confidence it keeps you from approaching it ends up

Speaker 1 causing you a lack of dates. You might struggle on the apps.
You get in your head about what to say if you doubt your words. And basically, you ask yourself the question, do women even like me?

Speaker 1 Or at least do quality women like you?

Speaker 1 And I've totally been there. I've totally been there.
And so have a lot of guys.

Speaker 1 And I want to tell you a quick story about this guy named Ken. He was one of my very first clients.

Speaker 1 Ken came to me, he was in his late 20s. Ken's a little bit chubby, and he had never had a girlfriend.
He'd never even kissed a girl. And when Ken came to me, he

Speaker 1 had never had a date, never kissed a girl, and just really felt like, well, I guess I'm going to have to settle for somebody I'm not that into or maybe even end up alone.

Speaker 1 And what Ken thought he had to do was do a bunch of pickup artist tricks. was do a bunch of things he read in the book The Game or he read on, you know, Reddit forums and things like that.
So

Speaker 1 basically Ken came to me and and I said, you know what? I think there's a better way. Let's do something a little bit different than what you read about in the game.

Speaker 1 I said, let's do something, what I call being radically authentic.

Speaker 1 And that's the main tip I want to give you here in the first five minutes of this show: is I want to give you a window into the power of being radically authentic,

Speaker 1 which means awakening your best, most confident, most amazing higher self and putting that guy in charge of your dating life. So

Speaker 1 Ken and I go out for the weekend. This is New York City.
This is almost 15 years ago. I'm sorry, over 10 years ago at this point.
And Ken's a short, little, nerdy guy.

Speaker 1 He's a little bit chubby, but he's very smart. You know, he quotes Plato.
He can read, he reads classic philosophy. And

Speaker 1 he was under the impression that, you know what, I'm too short. I'm 5'7.
I'm a little bit chunky. Women just don't want me.
Women just don't want to date me.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 1 I said, you know what, let's try something different. Instead of cool, amazing lines, why don't we try putting your real self out there?

Speaker 1 Let's have, let's show women the best, awesome, most awesome Ken. So we go out for the weekend.
I do this in-person training with guys where we go out for the weekend and I'm their wingman.

Speaker 1 And so I became Ken's wingman for the weekend. And we start approaching women in some bars and some clubs in New York City.
And at first, Ken struggles a little bit. He's in his head.

Speaker 1 Nothing's clicking at first, but he keeps at it. He keeps taking action.
And the thing about Ken is he's so intelligent and witty that, you know, some guys can quote Homer Simpson.

Speaker 1 Ken can quote Homer's Odyssey. He's a college professor, assistant professor.
And Ken was walking up to girls and he was having really intelligent, fun,

Speaker 1 cool nerd conversations.

Speaker 1 I remember at one point we were standing in the middle of this bar and I said, hey, what is your favorite karaoke song?

Speaker 2 He said, Purple Rain.

Speaker 1 I said, great. What girl here do you find most attractive? And he looks around, he points over to this really cute brunette standing a few feet away.
And I say, cool. Here's how you approach.

Speaker 1 Walk over and start singing the first line to Purple Rain.

Speaker 1 And Ken walks over. He's laughing.
He's nervous, but he's laughing. And he walks over to this girl and he says, hey,

Speaker 1 I never meant to cause you any sorrow. Kind of points at her.
I never meant to cause you any pain.

Speaker 1 Sort of like the scene in Top Gun where Tom Cruise is serenading Kelly McGillis. And this girl busts out laughing and she starts singing with him.

Speaker 1 And by the end of the conversation,

Speaker 1 she's taking his phone. and punching her number into his phone saying, you better call me.
You're awesome. I love nerds.

Speaker 1 So Ken started to get a glimpse of what it's like when you put that authentic, real, true self out there, when you become vulnerable and take courageous action.

Speaker 1 And the highlight of the night was the second night we went out. We're on a rooftop bar in lower Manhattan.
Ken approaches a tall, beautiful blonde. She kind of looked like Gwyneth Paltrow.

Speaker 1 And I'm on my phone, standing about 10 feet away. I'm taking notes.
I'm watching my client and they're just talking. They're just talking.
They get a drink.

Speaker 1 And then I look over and I see Ken kissing quote-unquote Gwyneth, the Gwyneth lookalike, and she's kissing him back. She was taller than him.
He actually had to get on his tiptoes.

Speaker 1 And what was so amazing and moving about that was, unbeknownst to everyone else on the rooftop, I knew that I was watching Ken have the very first kiss of his life at age 27.

Speaker 1 He had never kissed a woman before,

Speaker 1 but

Speaker 2 he

Speaker 1 was making out with this beautiful, awesome woman who liked the real authentic Ken.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I was just, I almost had to look away.

Speaker 1 It was almost too personal, but I couldn't look away because it was just amazing seeing Ken just absolutely crushing it, being courageous, being authentic, and letting him feel what it felt like for a cool, quality, wonderful, intelligent, attractive woman to be into him.

Speaker 1 That was his very first kiss.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 one month later, they were married. I'm just kidding.
I'm just kidding. They were not married.
Look, it was just a drunken bar makeout. I didn't want to make too big of it.

Speaker 1 I wanted to pull your leg there.

Speaker 1 I don't think they ever even dated. It was just a fun, drunken bar makeout.
But you know what?

Speaker 1 In those little moments, the drunken bar makeout, the approach where a girl gives you her phone number, getting getting

Speaker 1 more matches on a dating app, having that date where you learn, oh, that's how I attract women, that's how you connect. Those little moments can change your life.

Speaker 1 And that's what Ken, that's what happened to Ken that night. He changed, he transformed the way he saw himself.
He realized, hey, I am worthy. I am enough.
A lot of really cool girls like introverted.

Speaker 1 cool, nerdy guys, as long as they're meeting that best, radically authentic, confident amazing cool guy so Ken was basically the client who got me addicted to becoming a dating coach and I just wanted to share that story because that's a great example of

Speaker 2 excuse me

Speaker 1 that's a great example of the power of being radically authentic and

Speaker 1 I had a very similar story. I'm sure I'll be talking about this in future podcasts, but basically I used to be really introverted, shy.
I never dated in my 20s and 30s.

Speaker 1 I found, I finally found a woman in my

Speaker 1 youth who wanted to be with me, and I married her. And then

Speaker 1 nine weeks later, she dumped me. She left me for a guy on a motorcycle,

Speaker 1 a mustachioed, cool, muscly guy on a motorcycle. You know, your marriage is in trouble.

Speaker 1 When during your quote, honeymoon period, somebody you work with says, hey, Connell, I saw your wife on the back of a guy, of a guy on a motorcycle.

Speaker 1 Yeah, not a good thing. And basically that sent me off on a five-year journey where I hired all these different dating coaches, cool dating coaches, brilliant self,

Speaker 1 what would you call it?

Speaker 1 Peak performance coaches.

Speaker 1 cool dating coaches, sketchy pickup artists. I hired hypnotists.
I worked with all kinds of coaches. I worked with a guy who used to coach coach top tennis players and athletes.

Speaker 1 And basically over the course of the four or five years I spent doing this, I basically came up with a, let's call it a formula, a system about, hey, be radically authentic, show women that best, true, authentic self, take some courageous action, and let those dating chips fall where they may.

Speaker 1 And I guess that's my tip for you today. That's what I want you to begin to do and make a shift is to follow this philosophy.

Speaker 1 Here's a philosophy I want you to follow on your next date or the next time you're texting a girl from a dating app or the next time you're at a party and you're not sure what to say and you get stuck in your head.

Speaker 1 Here's the philosophy.

Speaker 1 What I'm thinking and feeling is what I'm saying and doing.

Speaker 1 I'll say that again. What I'm thinking and feeling is what I'm saying and doing.
When Ken went out that night, he wasn't overthinking. He was walking up to women.
He was cracking jokes.

Speaker 1 He was quoting Plato. Like, who quotes Plato at a bar? Nobody.

Speaker 1 But because Ken was putting his real, true, genuine self out there, women who like that kind of type, they're going to go crazy for that guy. And really, that's what this is about.

Speaker 1 Think of your higher self. It's sort of like if you use planned lines, if you pretend to be someone you're not,

Speaker 1 if you wear a mask around women, then you're kind of like a watered-down well drink. You're like a watery wine spritzer.

Speaker 1 Not very satisfying.

Speaker 1 But if you become radically authentic, if you say what's true, if you take risks that are honest, if you're authentic while always being respectful of women and empathetic, of course, but if you're putting that true best self out there, your jokes, your sense of humor, your stories, your version of nerdy Ken, then what's going to happen is you, instead of a watered-down wine spritzer, you become a

Speaker 1 shot of Jameson. You become a shot of really strong whiskey.
Not everybody wants whiskey. Not every woman's going to want that shot.

Speaker 1 But the women who want, who love a good Jameson, they're going to become intoxicated on you.

Speaker 1 And the great thing about being radically authentic is you attract the kinds of women who like your type.

Speaker 1 You don't attract the other women, and that's okay. We're not trying to attract every girl.
We're just trying to attract the right wonderful woman for a relationship with you.

Speaker 1 And also the other great thing about being radically authentic is you don't have to be somebody you're not. You get to lean into who you are.

Speaker 1 You get to... If you're a nice guy, you can be a nice guy, as long as you're not being supplicating and fake, as our guest will tell you about later.

Speaker 1 If you're a jock you can be a jock if you're a computer nerd if you're an engineer if you're uh uh like me if you're a kind of a hipster slash theater nerd

Speaker 1 slash star wars nerd put that self out there and then when women can take a drink of that shot of jameson that is the real authentic you they're gonna catch a buzz off the good stuff So give women the good stuff.

Speaker 1 Give them that true, real best you.

Speaker 1 What you're thinking and feeling is what you're saying and doing on dates, when approaching, when texting. Lead with honesty, authenticity, and vulnerability, and you can't go wrong.

Speaker 1 If I had to break my entire philosophy down into one sentence, it would be

Speaker 1 take courageous, authentic action. That's what Ken did.
That's what I want you to do. And it's what I'll be talking about every single episode here on the Dating Transformation podcast.
Okay,

Speaker 1 let's let's take a break. And when we come back, you're going to have an amazing treat.

Speaker 1 Dr. Robert Glover, a best-selling author of the incredible book, No More Mr.
Nice Guy, is going to be here.

Speaker 1 He is going to give you some game-changing tips about how to get over your fear of rejection, how to be a lot more confident, how to approach with directness and realness.

Speaker 1 And I think you're going to love our conversation with Dr. Glover.
So stand by. We'll be right back.

Speaker 3 I'm going to read your mind. Ready? I'll bet that you would love to confidently approach women, get great matches on the dating apps, flirt with charm, and attract your dream girlfriend.

Speaker 1 Right?

Speaker 3 But fear keeps you from approaching. You're not sure how to flirt.
You struggle on the apps. And desirable women just don't seem into you.
Well, I have great news.

Speaker 3 Dating coach Connell Barrett can help. He's guided thousands of men like you to more more confidence and helped them attract their dream girlfriends.

Speaker 3 So book a free strategy call today to see if Connell's coaching is right for you.

Speaker 3 On your call, Connell or a team member will give you personalized advice to help you have more confidence, more dates, and more fun.

Speaker 3 Oh, and you'll be dating women as your best self, a charming gentleman. That's because Connell does not teach creepy pickup artist tricks.

Speaker 3 He unlocks your most confident self so you can make authentic, romantic connections. Your next steps?

Speaker 3 Book your free call today at datingtransformation.com forward slash contact and grab a time that works for you.

Speaker 3 Then you'll be on your way to more confidence, better results, and attracting bright, beautiful women. Oh, so you know, soon Connell will stop taking on new clients.

Speaker 3 So book a call today while you still can. Go to datingtransformation.com forward slash contact and transform your love life.

Speaker 2 Bye.

Speaker 4 And we are back. It's launch week here at the Dating Transformation podcast and it's a special week.
So we've got a very special guest. Today I'm talking to Dr.

Speaker 2 Robert Glover.

Speaker 4 Dr. Glover is the author of the mega bestseller, No More Mr.
Nice Guy. I know it's a bestseller because I've seen his sales figures and I've salivated over them.

Speaker 4 He's also the author of the book Dating Essentials for Men, which has recently become an Amazon bestseller. And Dr.

Speaker 4 Glover has over 30 years of experience as a therapist, a coach, an educator, and a public speaker.

Speaker 4 Through his books, his online classes, and his workshops, he has helped countless men change their lives, helping them transform from being more passive, resentful, inauthentic men.

Speaker 4 to empowered, confident, real authentic guys. And I'm all about that.
For more information on Dr. Glover, please visit his website, drglover.com.
That's d-r-g-l-o-v-e-r.com. End of plugs.
Dr.

Speaker 4 Glover, thank you so much for joining. Thank you so much for joining me there.

Speaker 2 Every time I hear somebody read the bio that I've sent them, I think, I need to shorten that. I need to cut it down to just, you know, Dr.
Glover lives in Mexico. It's just that, you know,

Speaker 2 no more, no more than that. But anyway, it's good to be here.
Thanks for the invitation.

Speaker 4 My pleasure. My pleasure.
Let's get right to it. The man listening to this podcast is a nice guy.
And I mean that both in the good ways and maybe some of the ways that aren't so healthy and good.

Speaker 4 He's maybe a little introverted. He's a white collar guy.
He wants love. He likes and respects women, but he struggles with confidence and he struggles with dating.

Speaker 4 For this guy, please tell them a little bit about what it means to be a nice guy and specifically what it means to have nice guy syndrome.

Speaker 2 Okay, so yeah, we'll get to kind of cover two topics here, the whole nice guy dynamic and dating.

Speaker 2 And, you know, they often overlap, not always. But yeah,

Speaker 2 I'm a recovering nice guy. I, you know, if you'd met me 30 years ago, I would have told you, I'm a nice guy.
I'm one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. I would have thought that was a good thing.

Speaker 2 I couldn't understand why everybody didn't have that philosophy. You know, be kind, be generous, be easygoing,

Speaker 2 and, you know, avoidant of conflict and pleasing of other people.

Speaker 2 And for me, My story began in my second marriage when my wife just flat out told me, says, you need help. Everybody thinks you're such a nice guy, but you're not.
You treat me badly.

Speaker 2 You're passive-aggressive. You'll blow up.
You embarrass me in public. You know, if you don't go get help, I'm going to leave you.

Speaker 2 And I thought, wait a minute, you're the one who's angry all the time, never wants to have sex anymore, is moody, you know,

Speaker 2 and I'm the one that has to go get help. Okay, I went.

Speaker 2 And luckily, I quickly landed in some really good places and started to really understand why my roadmap, my paradigm that I'd had since childhood, of thinking if I just do everything right, make everybody happy, avoid all conflict,

Speaker 2 you know, hide all my mistakes, then I'll be liked and loved and get my needs met. And

Speaker 2 I started finding out why that didn't work. And

Speaker 2 I started learning about how to be more honest and more transparent, how to ask for what I want, how to have boundaries, how to say no.

Speaker 2 And as I started working on my issues in therapy and later a men's group,

Speaker 2 I was a therapist at the time. And I started noticing a lot of the men coming to me were saying a lot of the same things I said.
Really, there's two categories of guys.

Speaker 2 The first one were in relationship, and since I was, that's who I'm most related to. But they'd come with their wives or girlfriends, and they'd say same thing as me.
I'm a nice guy.

Speaker 2 I treat her better than her ex. I'm raising her kids.
I do everything for her. I try to make her happy.
It's never enough. When's it going to be my turn?

Speaker 2 And I thought, man, they're just like me. The second kind of guy was a single guy.
And they'd come in and they'd say, you know, I'm a nice guy. All the women I know tell me that.

Speaker 2 I have lots of female friends, except none of them want to date me or get naked with me.

Speaker 4 I know that all too well.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they all say, someday you're going to make some lucky woman so happy, but how come they don't want to be my girlfriend?

Speaker 4 You are something. Such a great catch.
Not a great catch.

Speaker 2 Somebody else.

Speaker 2 You know, these guys, I thought, okay, I'm not the only one.

Speaker 2 So I started almost 30 years ago, my first No More mr nice guy men's group uh we just started working on on these nice guy issues that paradigm that says if i'm just a good guy everybody will like me and love me and women don't want to get naked with me and um

Speaker 2 and i just started writing i don't know what to call them chapters lessons blogs just I'd write every Wednesday and give these guys what I was discovering about what I thought the origins of nice guy syndrome was,

Speaker 2 how it manifested, what to do different. And I just kept writing and the guys and often their wives and girlfriends said, Robert, you need to write a book.
You need to go on Oprah.

Speaker 2 This could be a bestseller. Lots of people need this book.
And so I kept writing over a period of six or seven years, finally finished, took about three years to get it published.

Speaker 2 A lot of publishing companies said, Robert, we like your book, but our marketing department says men won't buy a self-help book.

Speaker 2 You know, that book now makes uh annual six-figure royalty checks. So apparently, men do buy self-help books.

Speaker 2 And so I've been working with nice guys for about 30 years.

Speaker 2 And then when that second marriage that I was in came to an end after about 14 years of marriage, and I was out in the dating world in my late 40s for the first time, really, I'd been married twice for a total of 25 years.

Speaker 2 You know, I got married the first time two days after I graduated from college.

Speaker 2 So, you know, I'd never just been, you know, like a single guy out there knowing how to meet women, how to date, how to have lots of experiences.

Speaker 2 And so my first two wives were my first two sexual partners. And, you know, I got out there in the dating world.
I thought, okay, well, where do I start? You know,

Speaker 2 I knew two things after

Speaker 2 being married to 25 years to two women, neither of whom I should have gone on more than three dates with, but that's how bad a picker and how bad of an ender I was. I got to become a better picker.

Speaker 2 I got to become a better ender. And so being a better picker means I got to learn how to date.

Speaker 2 And then I also have to learn how to be a better ender because I come to realize that being a good ender covers a multitude of sins of bad picks because dating is actually a series of bad picks.

Speaker 2 You know, when guys complain, you know, I got all I've got is these one and done. You know, they go, that's normal, that's dating, that's that's how it's supposed to work.

Speaker 2 You should go on one date and go, no, no more, that's enough, you know, right? Uh, let's try another one. So

Speaker 2 here I was in my late 40s, you know, typically my nice guy seduction of high school and college was I'd never just walk up to a woman and talk to her and ask her out.

Speaker 2 You know, I'd maybe sit next to her in class,

Speaker 2 you know, try to answer as many questions as I could to show off how smart I was. Show off, right?

Speaker 2 You know, maybe, maybe, you know, get to know her a little bit, volunteer to do something for her, you know, be different than all the other carriers. Can I carry your books? Can I carry your books?

Speaker 2 You know, can I help you move? Can I wash your car? You know, what, you know,

Speaker 2 anything.

Speaker 2 I'd never say, can I see you naked you know will you want to go out with me you know and then then maybe on in college i i'd wait till friday afternoon walk up to the woman on campus that i've been wanting to ask out and tap her on the shoulder and say hey i don't guess you don't go out with me tonight would you and it's amazing how many women were washing their hair that night you know when when i wanted to take them out so i had to learn to do better so I had a lot of clients start giving me books and CDs and DVDs.

Speaker 2 And, you know, I read the game and started listening to podcasts. And

Speaker 2 I decided, I'm just going to get out and be a scientist.

Speaker 2 I'm going to go out and just start interacting socially with just people in general, but just start interacting with women and just see what works.

Speaker 2 Instead of approaching dating as how can I get a girlfriend or how can I get laid, I started approaching dating from a point of view of how does this work? How can I be the most effective at this?

Speaker 2 How can I be that better picker and that better ender? And I quickly got good enough that I was getting a lot of dates, having a lot of sex.

Speaker 2 And my client started saying, Robert, teach us, what are you doing? I go, I'm not a dating guru. I don't know anything about dating.
So

Speaker 2 I'm naturally inquisitive. I'm naturally a teacher.
So I just started teaching the guys what I was doing. And that just kept growing.

Speaker 2 It turned into a class, turned into a 16-lesson course that I taught online for several years. It turned into the book, Dating Essentials for Men.

Speaker 2 More recently, Dating Essentials for Men, FAQ, Frequently Asked Questions. I was just in New York about two weeks ago recording that.
So it'd be out on audio soon.

Speaker 2 It's already out in e-book and print on Amazon. So

Speaker 2 I really don't even still consider myself a dating guru. I'm more of a, I think, a relationship.

Speaker 2 I can say I'm a relationship expert. And for back before I get, I've been married three times now.
I've been married to my third wife six and a half or five and a half years.

Speaker 2 And for a while when I was single, I'd say I'm a marriage therapist who's been divorced twice and a dating guru that doesn't have a girlfriend.

Speaker 2 And people still keep lining up to pay me money to tell them, you know, how to do stuff. But I'm very practical and I really get real with guys and just get down to what doesn't work and what does.

Speaker 2 And most of what most guys do when it comes to women doesn't work. And just because we don't know better.
You know, no one's taught us.

Speaker 2 We learned everything we learned about women from listening to women complain about other men, beginning with our mothers or watching porn or unfortunately, too much from

Speaker 2 the pickup and red pill gurus that say, do this, do that. And

Speaker 2 basically it's a war, us against the women. They're out to get us, so we got to get them first.
And

Speaker 2 so I'm very practical and very respectful. And

Speaker 2 I just believe in doing what works. And

Speaker 2 a lot of guys like the way I approach it because it's a breath of fresh air from spinning plates and

Speaker 2 running corny pickup lines who lies most men or women you know the women have all heard that line you know um you know without peacocking and you know all the other stuff that you know guys do this to get a woman right or do this to get digits basically most pickups mostly about getting phone numbers it's not really

Speaker 4 well much more than that it's funny i i found your book

Speaker 4 back when i was first learning about all these different dating

Speaker 4 from dating gurus i was beginning my journey of figuring out what works with women And at the time, I didn't have a term for it, but the time I would go on a date and I would lean in and I would say whatever I thought she wanted to hear.

Speaker 4 I would essentially become the guy I felt like she wanted to have a date with.

Speaker 4 I remember one woman, this is in my book, one woman, I thought she wanted to be with a rugged, outdoorsy guy, which I'm not. So I did an impression of one.

Speaker 4 I lied to her and told her that I swam with sharks.

Speaker 2 Did you wear a flannel shirt or something?

Speaker 4 I may as well have it. wearing I was wearing a

Speaker 4 suit of sorts with her, and I was listening to myself lie to her, like literally lie, because I just wanted her validation. I wanted her to basically see me as good enough.

Speaker 4 And that reminds me that, so a quote from your book, your book, No More Mr. Nice Guy, that really hit me like a lightning bolt was, quote, nice guys seek approval and validation from others.

Speaker 4 Everything a nice guy does or says is at some level calculated to gain someone's approval or avoid their disapproval. And this is especially true in their relationships with women.

Speaker 4 Could you elaborate on that? Why do so many men seek a woman's approval or avoid disapproval?

Speaker 2 Okay, well,

Speaker 2 it's even bigger than just women, but we're talking mainly about dating, so we'll hone in on that. You know, the one dynamic, well, the dynamic of the nice guy syndrome.
When I wrote No More Mr.

Speaker 2 Nice Guy, I really focused in on the concept of shame. That

Speaker 2 at a very early age,

Speaker 2 everybody, but

Speaker 2 nice guys in particular, internalize inaccurately a belief, I'm not good enough, there's something wrong with me, I'm not lovable, I'm not valuable.

Speaker 2 And this was, you know, through a child's immature mind, internalizing our life experiences of, you know, a parent's angry at us, or, you know, we're hungry and they don't feed us, or, you know, our parents are fighting.

Speaker 2 And children internalize, I'm the cause of that. There must be something wrong with me.
That's called toxic shame.

Speaker 2 And then we all develop coping mechanisms to try to not feel that and to try to get the love

Speaker 2 that we want and desire and get our needs met.

Speaker 2 Now, in time, I came to see that nyeshi syndrome not only is built on that shame of everything we do, is either trying to get external validation and approval or hide anything about us that might get a negative response, but it's also built on anxiety.

Speaker 2 The anxiety that I won't be good enough, that I'll get abandoned, that I won't be loved, that I won't get my needs met. So it's really two pillars behind nyeshai syndrome, this shame and anxiety.

Speaker 2 And they really go hand in hand. They overlap.
So everything

Speaker 2 we nice guys do really is about getting external validation, you know, making good enough grades, making a good impression, making enough money, getting the promotion, driving the right car, being impressive, whatever, trying to get people to think we're okay.

Speaker 2 Because internally, we don't believe we're okay. Now, we may not go around.
Now, I talk about no more Mr. Nice Guy.

Speaker 2 I found in time there's two types of nice guys one and i thought they were all like me what i call the i'm so good nice guy you know i'm so good i do everything right i you know i you know everybody should be happy with me um but my shame is just it's just buried deeper in a more you know locked box dark container inside the second kind of nice guy is what i call the i'm so bad nice guy This is the guy that probably struggled in school, started doing drugs at an early age, got kicked out of school, kicked out of the house, was always in trouble for something.

Speaker 2 And then at some point in their life, you know, found religion, you know, got married or had a baby or got in the military. Something kind of straightened them out.

Speaker 2 And now they're trying their best to be a nice guy, but there's their shame's right up next to the surface.

Speaker 2 Oh, it's only a matter of time until people find out I'm a fuck-up, I'm not good enough, there's something wrong with me. So the I'm so good, nice guys, the shame's buried.

Speaker 2 The I'm so bad nice guy is right next to the surface. But both operate in the same way, and that is in seeking validation.
Now,

Speaker 2 let me kind of come back to this, but come at it from kind of a side way. Okay.
I've been saying to Manfred Wise sometime,

Speaker 2 again,

Speaker 2 I'm a relationship expert, I guess.

Speaker 2 I earned a PhD in marriage and family therapy at 29 years old. So I've been a marriage and family therapist for over 30 years and teaching guys about dating for almost 20.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 two things I tell guys. Number one, lifelong pair bonded

Speaker 2 relationships with the opposite sex are not natural or normal or in the human DNA. We've only been trying to do those for less than 10,000 years.

Speaker 2 For about 2 million, 2.5 million years, we were tribal. Everything was shared, including sexual access.
People did not pair bond.

Speaker 2 And so trying to do this thing that culture says, do the, find the right woman for you, fall in love, get married, be happy every after,

Speaker 2 it's a fucking fairy tale.

Speaker 2 It's not in human DNA. Now, I say it is, if we do this consciously, relationships can be a powerful personal growth machine.
They can really grow us.

Speaker 2 The other thing that I say is that dating is not in our human DNA. In fact, dating.

Speaker 2 has probably only existed in Western culture at most 100, 150 years. Eastern culture, I still talk to men from India today that, you know, their families still arrange their marriages.

Speaker 2 They don't date. That's why when Indian men come to America, they really are lost.

Speaker 2 I worked with a lot of Asian men and they're lost.

Speaker 2 But even those of us that like grew up in Western culture, Europe, U.S.,

Speaker 2 dating's not in our DNA.

Speaker 2 I read somewhere a while back that Shakespeare 200 years ago wrote Romeo and Juliet to point out the stupidity of romantic love.

Speaker 2 We love each other so much, let's kill ourselves.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 our grandparents,

Speaker 2 Romeo and Juliet.

Speaker 4 That was a bad breakup.

Speaker 2 But even our grandparents, so if we go back 60, 70, 80, 100 years, you know, either...

Speaker 2 you know, married a cousin, married, you know, the girl next door, married their, their brother or sister's best friend.

Speaker 2 My wife grew up here in Guadalajara, Mexico, and she's eight out of 10 kids. Two of her brothers married two of her best friends.

Speaker 2 And that's how historically,

Speaker 2 for the last hundred years, we call that historical. That's how dating works.
Now,

Speaker 2 with what I call pickup culture and hookup culture,

Speaker 2 we got apps we can swipe right. You know, we've got dating boot camps.

Speaker 2 We've got, you know,

Speaker 2 seems like every woman on the planet is single these days. Excuse me.

Speaker 2 I had COVID a couple weeks ago and still recovering a little bit of aspects of it i'm glad you're feeling better for the second time

Speaker 2 that's always better the second time around right no it was actually worse than the first time oh sorry so so the thing is so

Speaker 2 lifelong pair-bonded relationships aren't normal and natural dating isn't normal and natural and so But the way things are laid out nowadays, if we men want companionship, if we want a partner, and if we want to get laid, we got to do something that's not a natural thing to do and that is we have to learn how to interact with women which you know

Speaker 2 it makes sense from a logical point of view that if we want to get a girlfriend or get a woman naked with us we have to get her to approve of us so that's that's typically why why we go seeking their approval right but it's it's even bigger than that kind of the golden rule among men is don't piss off the woman that doesn't mean that means it's not your mother you know, your female boss.

Speaker 2 We men culturally have just been conditioned. Don't piss off women.
You know, they'll, though, they'll go on social media, they'll call you out, they'll hashtag me to you.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 they'll be mean to you. So we're all out there trying to please women and trying to get their approval.
But unfortunately, that is the worst possible way to date that I can think of.

Speaker 2 Because all of a sudden, you know, you hear in a lot of the pickup and red pill communities about alpha and beta stuff.

Speaker 2 And, you know, they, they a lot a lot and and i speak at red pill conferences i got red pill friends but they'll talk about you you know being alpha but the problem is if you go seeking a woman's approval in any way whatsoever you are automatically the beta she's the alpha she has all the power she's the decider and she knows it because every other guy is seeking her approval as well so she gets to decide who or what you know, she goes with or what she does.

Speaker 2 So seeking a woman's approval always makes you the supplicant. It makes you one down.

Speaker 2 It makes you makes her the decider and you, you just accept whether, you know, whatever comes along.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 this approach of trying to get women's approval, whether it be in a dating situation or for guys that are in relationship or married, seeking a woman's approval is

Speaker 2 the absolute worst thing we men can do in terms of healthy relationship dynamics.

Speaker 4 Makes total sense. Let me tell you a quick story from a client of mine, and I'd love to hear your take on it through your lens, if you would, because I think this will resonate with you.

Speaker 4 I had a client named Trevor who was stuck in that terrible place called the friend zone, right?

Speaker 2 Yep.

Speaker 4 He kept going on first dates. He was very approval seeking.
He was very supplicating to women. And he kept hearing over and over again, just not feeling it, but you're a nice guy.

Speaker 4 And then he and I worked together and He had a first date with a really attractive brunette named Becca.

Speaker 4 And I'd given him a lot of tools to try to smash through that nice guy exterior and be just more real, raw, what I call radically authentic, but just be more honest and real.

Speaker 4 And about 20 minutes into their first date, she was telling a story about shoe shopping and buying makeup. And he was getting very bored with it.

Speaker 4 And he did something I told him to, which is be really honest. And he interrupted her and said, okay.
I've totally lost interest in your story, but listen to what happened to me today.

Speaker 4 And he essentially took control of the conversation. Now, I'm not

Speaker 4 saying it's every time you should cut a woman off or tell her to be quiet. I'm not saying that at all.
But what I am saying is he basically said, look, I'm not listening to this.

Speaker 4 This is not helping the date. I'm going to take responsibility and make this fun.

Speaker 4 And she looked at him with this look of surprise and excitement. 20 minutes later, she was sitting on his lap.
They were kissing and they dated for a while.

Speaker 4 What's your take on that?

Speaker 2 Okay,

Speaker 2 going back to our tribal ancestors,

Speaker 2 women by nature are security-seeking creatures.

Speaker 2 Now, they, they, they can, you know, they, they, they outperform, they get more degrees than men, you know, they get higher-paying jobs than men nowadays.

Speaker 2 I mean, they can take care of themselves, they can open their own car door, they can buy their own car.

Speaker 2 They don't need a man, they really don't. You know, the whole Gloria Steinem women need a man like a fish needs a bicycle.
She went on and married a very wealthy man after she said that, by the way.

Speaker 2 Didn't know that. So they don't really need us, but they are wired to see us as their protector and provider, even if they don't need us to protect and provide.

Speaker 2 Now, even with that said, I've seen studies that the highest performing women, the women that out there are high-paying jobs, making the most money, can't get boyfriends because they all want a guy that is performing as high as they are.

Speaker 2 And nowadays, a lot of guys aren't.

Speaker 2 And so even the high-performing women still want a high-performing guy, right?

Speaker 2 Still, they want that security system. So

Speaker 2 if our female ancestors look to the tribal men who are warriors, who are hunters, who are fierce,

Speaker 2 who are competent, who are masterful, right? If they look to them for a sense of security, And that's wired into DNA. That's wired into who we are from a gender perspective.

Speaker 4 They want to be safe.

Speaker 2 safe they want to be they want to feel safe bottom line hashtag me too was all about i don't feel safe that's what hashtag me too was and then but you know if we say nowadays well women don't feel safe it's in their dna they'll go oh you're being dismissive you know you're being gender stereotype but hashtag me too wouldn't exist if women felt safe okay and yeah that's partly our fault that's partly just wired into the the the the feminine gender they don't feel safe now again they they they can do everything under the sun to have you know a good life and make a lot of money but

Speaker 2 when we approach a woman trying to get her approval like i said now we're the beta she's the alpha she's the stronger of the two she's the decider that's not going to turn her on and if we do anything that this shows a little bit of strength a little bit of fierceness a little bit of wildness as is as my coach and david data said you know a little bit of your wild man a little bit of your killer you know yeah that the the woman kind of goes

Speaker 2 that gives me chills You know, this

Speaker 2 caveman, cave woman.

Speaker 2 That guy could kill the spider, you know, and even though, you know, they don't want us to pull their hair and drag them into the cave, they do want to know we've got a strength and a fierceness about my second wife used to say to me, back, I wrote No More Mr.

Speaker 2 Nice Guy when I was married to this woman, and she was hell on wheels. I loved her, but she was crazy.

Speaker 2 And she used to say to me, How do I know?

Speaker 2 I should say, if you can't stand up up to me how will i ever know you can stand up for me right and that's profound and she was right and that was such a great message if i'm if i'm quaking and baking and you know fancy footwork trying to make her happy and avoid conflict and not upset her and she's watching all this women aren't stupid they're watching when we're these placating little boys trying to get their approval and and if they're going if she they're going this guy's a wuss you know if if he's just letting me get away with everything who's going to actually protect me when there's something that's that's a real threat here so anything we do that shows any kind of strength now again i don't teach guys to be asses and i don't think you do either but telling a woman i'm bored of this conversation is is authentic and and it and it takes strength and backbone and balls to be authentic now when you were telling that shoe story i i was smiling because uh i i took a woman out and and we dated for a while for i think it was first date first second date i remember we're walking along a lakefront, nice summer day, and she started telling a shoe story.

Speaker 2 And I think she was telling where, like, her and her sister went to these shoe parties where, you know, they bring shoes and women all drink martinis and try on shoes.

Speaker 2 And I go, oh, shoe shopping is women's porn. And she just stopped.
She just froze, looked at me, and got this steely eye in her, you know, look on her face. And she said,

Speaker 2 you get it. You get it.
You understand.

Speaker 2 Yeah, shoe shopping is porn for us women. And she goes, I like you.
You get it.

Speaker 2 So, you know, anything just about being yourself, whether you say, I'm bored with this story about you going shoe shopping, or you say something like, oh, for women, shoe shopping is, you know, it's women's porn.

Speaker 2 You know, being you and just not holding anything back. I'll tell you another quick story because it involved a date kind of in the same location with another woman

Speaker 2 that also dated for a while.

Speaker 2 And I remember we went and got a little bite to eat at a happy hour and then um we were going to go walk along the same lake and um and she had to go use the restroom so she went to the restroom and walked back and and um i i said okay i'm going to go hit the the restroom too and then we'll go walking and i just said by the way i really enjoyed watching you walk away from me nice and as soon as i said it i thought oh you know i'm you know i've blown it you know she she was a smart lady uh you know uh uh alzheimer researcher researcher local university you know i just thought ah you know i probably blew it but i'm just being me I enjoyed watching her walk away.

Speaker 2 You know, I was looking at her ass. I mean, that's obviously what I said.
So, anyway, you know, we broke up after about three or four months. And, and, um, and then, but we stayed friends.

Speaker 2 And she told me one time, said, Do you remember like first, second date, you made that comment how you enjoyed watching me walk away from you? I said, Yeah, I said, I thought I'd blown it.

Speaker 2 She goes, turned me on.

Speaker 3 I love to tell you: rejection, ghosting, loneliness, lack of dates, and lack of confidence. For many men, dating just sucks, but it doesn't have to.

Speaker 3 There's a simple yet powerful way to gain instant confidence and attract a great girlfriend. Be radically authentic.

Speaker 3 It's all laid out in the number one Amazon best-selling book, Dating Sucks But You Don't. Your step-by-step guide to attracting wonderful women and doing it with total authenticity.

Speaker 3 Author and dating coach Connell Barrett has had and fixed all the dating problems that you struggle with. He's also helped thousands of men gain confidence and find love.

Speaker 3 He's put his best tips and strategies into dating sucks but you don't so that you can.

Speaker 3 Confidently approach women and get dates. Become magnetic and attractive, even if you're not tall or great looking.
Always know what to say to make sparks fly.

Speaker 3 Get lots of great matches and dates on the dating apps and attract your dream woman. You can find dating sucks but you don't on Amazon or wherever books are sold in paperback, Kindle and audiobook.

Speaker 3 Get dating sucks but you don't today to transform your confidence and find your dream girl.

Speaker 2 Be authentic. Be you.
If you're trying to please her, get her approval, say the right thing. You're boring, you're dull.
There's nothing fierce about you.

Speaker 2 But if you will just be you, and guys will tell me all the time, well, being me doesn't seem to really turn women on and i go when was the last time a new woman really saw you the real you really saw the you that you are that maybe you don't even let yourself see because you're trying so hard to you know be good and get it right and you know yeah let them see the real you hell yeah you said something on the art of charm podcast recently that i liked you said and you're talking about a different context you're talking about work and career but i think it can also apply to dating you said nice guys are good at being good but they're not great at being great you got to take risks rock the boat follow your passions and that as a dating coach that resonated with me because you have to be willing to take a risk on a date to say damn i loved i loved watching you walk away i was or however you phrase that yeah that's a risk and she might not have liked it but the women who like that kind of risk taking you're going to be very attractive to the to the women who go for that right well yeah and and because here's the deal one of the one of my core principles i've got i've got several core principles i teach men you know one is be authentic be yourself uh another one is be willing to get to rejection quickly and and that is find out quickly is this woman a good match for you so if you have a certain sense of humor if you have a certain lifestyle you know need to you need to find out does the woman like the you that you are so you know my sense of humor is saying i enjoyed watching you walk away from me or turning to a woman and say oh shoe shopping is women's porn you know i'm as irreverent you know with women as i am like on this call you know i'll swear and just say, I say whatever comes to the tip of my brain without much of a filter.

Speaker 2 And, you know, either a woman's going to really like that or she's not. And you know what? I need to be okay.
I need to be outcome agnostic. You know, if she likes it, great.

Speaker 2 Let's see where it goes from there. If she doesn't like it, great.
I found out quickly, I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince a woman that my humor is funny.

Speaker 2 You know, if she doesn't get it, doesn't like it. You know, I'll give you another example.

Speaker 2 A woman taught me many years ago to always open a woman's door.

Speaker 2 I was dating this one woman. She'd grown up in Europe and I actually was visiting her and we went to London.
And I remember out shopping and like went to Harrods and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 And she stopped me and she said, Robert, are you going to open my door for me or not? And I said,

Speaker 2 I don't know. I hadn't thought about it.
She goes, because sometimes you do, sometimes you don't. I don't care.
Either way, just tell me. Are you going to open my door or not?

Speaker 2 And I go, I'll open your door for you. And since that day, I train every woman I'm with to wait for me to open their door, getting out of the car, going into a building.

Speaker 2 I've trained my mother, my granddaughter, every woman. I love watching my 16-year-old stepson open his mother's door for her.
So, and he does it for his girlfriend.

Speaker 2 So women can open their own damn door. They don't need me to open the door.
But it just, it creates a loving dominance. It lets them kind of be the princess, the queen.
And, and, but here's the story.

Speaker 2 I went on a date with a woman and I met her on mash.com and she put that, she salsa danced. And at that time, I was salsa dancing.
So, all right, that's something in common.

Speaker 2 So we set up a date, and I said, give me a place near where you live. She lived 45 minutes from me, and I'll come meet you there.
So we met there and chatted a little bit. And I was hungry.

Speaker 2 And I said,

Speaker 2 let's go get something to eat. You want to come with me? You know a place nearby? And she said, yeah.
I said, okay, come with me.

Speaker 2 So I was driving a Mercedes-E class at at that time, so I opened the door and put her in, and we drove just a few blocks. And there's a diner, so we pulled up.

Speaker 2 And what I typically do is I just tap the woman on top of her leg, and I said, Wait for me, I'll come open your door. They always do, right? I often have to remind them.

Speaker 2 It takes women a little while to get in the habit of a man opening their door. Sure, my mother is.
My mother said one time, if I was waiting for your dad to open my door, I'd still be waiting.

Speaker 2 Uh, he's been dead for 12 years. Um,

Speaker 2 so I tapped her on the leg and said, Wait for me to open your door. And um, and she she hops out of the car and

Speaker 2 sprints to the front door of the diner and gets in the door of the diner even before I can get there. And we sit down and she goes, I just need to tell you, I don't like to be controlled.

Speaker 2 And I go, I don't want to control you. I said, but if you hang out with me, I'll open your door.
She goes, well, I don't like men telling me what to do.

Speaker 2 And I go, well, I have no desire to tell you what to do. I said, but if you hang out with me, I'll open your door.
And we kind of talked about that a little bit.

Speaker 2 And so then we got a bite to eat and we're walking out. And she again bolts out the diner door before I can get to it and open it.
But she has to wait at my car. I've got the key fond, right?

Speaker 2 So she waits. I open the door, put her in, drive her back to her car.
And, you know, again, before I can even say a word, she jumps out. So I'm driving home thinking, another one and done.

Speaker 2 Got to rejection quickly. That's great.
No problems. Next day, I get an email.
And she says, you know, I think we got off on the wrong foot. I'd really like to see you again.

Speaker 2 I just don't like to be told what to do or be controlled, blah, blah, blah. And I I said, I don't want to control you.
I said, but if you hang out with me, I'll open your door.

Speaker 2 And I just held my frame, you know, good, good dance, right? Held my frame. So here's what I did.
I'm going to try and experiment. I sent her an email.
I said, okay,

Speaker 2 listen to me, meet me at this restaurant at this day, at this time. We'll go get Tapas and then we'll go dancing just up the street at the local ballroom.
She wrote back and said, great.

Speaker 2 So I'm already taking control of the whole thing, right?

Speaker 2 Where we're going to meet, what time.

Speaker 2 So then we go meet. And she says again, and we're eating.

Speaker 2 She says, you know, I i don't want to be controlled i don't like mid i said i get that but if you hang out with me i'll open your door so we go to leave the restaurant she waits and i open her door and we walk up the street we get to the ballroom and she waits i open her door and then i lead her around the dance floor for an hour or so so i'm still you know leading and controlling so to speak and as i'm in position right so i i had to go to work i had something early the next day so i said you know i i i take off So I'll walk you back to your car.

Speaker 2 She was parked somewhere. So again, she waits.
So I walked her back to her car and we get to her car. And this is a Seattle city sidewalk street, busy place.

Speaker 2 And I go to tell her good night. She puts her arms around my neck, wraps one leg around my leg, starts dry humping my leg and sticks her tongue down my throat.
I go.

Speaker 2 I think it's about as far as we go on a city sidewalk. But so

Speaker 2 the being willing to get to rejection quickly, I didn't care if she wanted to keep seeing me or not, but I was going to be me. I was going to set the tummy.
I was going to open the door.

Speaker 2 And her biology, her DNA took over of feeling safe and secure and trusting. And it opened her to where, you know, she was a sexual aggressor in this situation.
So that's why I say, be you.

Speaker 2 you know be authentic be willing to get to rejection and if you're trying to please a woman if i was trying to please her i i would have quit okay all right I won't open your door. You know,

Speaker 2 I won't do that bad thing anymore that you don't like, you know, people doing for you. And so it's just the power of being you.
And, you know, there's a certain percentage of women out there.

Speaker 2 They're going to love the you that you are just the way you are. And an even greater percentage of women who have no interest.
Fine. That's great.
That's how it works.

Speaker 4 It only takes one to change your life.

Speaker 4 It only takes a small handful to get some real nice new reps and wins and confidence. And it also takes some rejections to realize, hey, rejection is not really that bad.

Speaker 4 And that's my next question for you.

Speaker 4 As I understand it, you do or have done drills with men who are single where they go out and they try to get rejected. Is that something you've taught? Can you go into that a little bit?

Speaker 2 How does that work?

Speaker 2 I think the earliest thing I tried to teach men that I learned really early on in, because I like everybody else, I don't like getting rejected.

Speaker 2 rejected um but i came to the realization pretty quickly it doesn't hurt you know a strike a a woman i don't even know you know not giving me a phone number or not going on a date with me that that hurts me how you know i didn't know her five minutes ago and you know she's not going to go on a date with me why why does that hurt but

Speaker 2 we we tend to we tend to that ties into our shame oh there's something wrong with me she can see i'm a loser every other woman's going to see the same thing she turned me down they're all going to turn me down and and we we we do our emotional spiral around that so that that does hurt that that that spiral that shame spiral hurts rejection doesn't so a couple of things i'll tell you a couple of things that i have men do one is yeah go out and you know i'm not big into approach i tell men walking across a room and starting a conversation with a woman just because you find her physically attractive is probably

Speaker 2 the worst reason to talk to a woman. You know, you don't know a thing about her.
Just because she's physically attractive, that boosts your ego. Oh, if she was my girlfriend, I'd be so happy.

Speaker 2 You don't know her. She might be a total fucking bitch.
She may be terrible in bed.

Speaker 2 She may have bad breath. She may laugh like a donkey, but she looks hot.
So she'd be a great girlfriend. I know.
I know it.

Speaker 2 We're sure about that. So what I tell guys to do is to, you know, escalate quickly.
You know, go out somebody's and just for the fun of it, try to get three, five rejections in a night.

Speaker 2 Now, you can't be rude to the woman. You can't just piss her off to get rejected, but just walk up to her and say, hey, you know, my name's Robert.
Saw you over here.

Speaker 2 I got a bounce, but I want to take you out. Give me your number.
You know, just real direct, tell her what to do. I always tell guys, never ask, tell, have your phone out.
Say, give me your number.

Speaker 2 I want to take you out. And, you know, odds are she's going to say, I don't even know you.
You know, you know, but I've gone out. I went out with a buddy one night trying to get five rejections.

Speaker 2 I couldn't get five in a night. I kept getting, I just kept,

Speaker 2 I was, I was talking to women that should not have been giving me numbers. I went to a college music fest with with a client of mine who's a jazz musician.

Speaker 2 I'm sitting next to this, you know, college-age girl. I was probably 50.
I don't know. You know, and I'm talking to her.
And I said, you like jazz? She goes, yeah.

Speaker 2 I say, well, actually, I know the piano player. I said, let's go listen to jazz sometimes.
She goes, I'd love to. I said, give me your number.
She gave it off and spelled her name for me.

Speaker 2 Get three or five rejections in a night. By the time he gets to the second one, he's usually kind of doing a pump fist and grabbing his crotch and doing a happy dance.
I did it. I did it.
It hurt.

Speaker 2 It didn't kill me.

Speaker 4 Exactly. It's the anticipation of what that pain is going to feel like.

Speaker 4 Therefore, I'm unworthy. Therefore, I'll be alone.
Therefore, or I'll have to settle or I'm not good enough.

Speaker 4 And that's what I thought, I felt that way for many, many years.

Speaker 2 I think we all do. I think that's pretty normal for me to feel it.
And women feel it too, by the way. Universal.
That's why women don't typically approach because they're, they're even.

Speaker 4 I was 38 years old the first night I ever went out to approach a woman. And I was so nervous that night that I had a panic attack in the men's room stall of this club before I went out.

Speaker 2 Before you even talked to a woman, right? Yeah.

Speaker 4 And I walked up to the first woman of my life. I approached her.
She was wearing a cowboy hat, blonde hair, white hat. She was half buzzed, half drunk.

Speaker 4 It didn't didn't go anywhere, but, and she wasn't interested, but she was fine. She was a little drunk and more or less polite.
We talked for two minutes and she walked away.

Speaker 4 And I remember thinking, that's what I've been afraid of for 38 years. That was nothing.
It was fine.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So I love the, and I found that when guys will go do that, if you go get that three or five rejections in a night, it pretty much just kills your fear of rejection.
You realize that's it? Yeah.

Speaker 2 That's all I was afraid of. I just got, no, they're not going to give me a phone number.
But the thing is, is,

Speaker 2 going and trying to get rejected,

Speaker 2 you look confident as hell. I mean, you walk right up, you say, hey, I'm Robert.
You know, I want to take you out. Give me your phone number.
That looks confident as hell. And women,

Speaker 2 I've been telling guys for years that because women are security-seeking creatures, confidence is just a major turn on.

Speaker 2 And I tell guys, you know, if you interact with a woman confidently, she will have the exact same brain chemicals, you know, releasing in her her brain that you would have if she lifted her shirt and showed you her tits.

Speaker 2 And, you know, you don't have to think about, do I like that? No, you, you, you get aroused because it's wired into you. Again, it's evolution, it's wired into you.

Speaker 2 It's wired into them that when a guy interacts confidently with them, they get that same tingle, that same arousal, that same buzz that we get when we, you know, see tits.

Speaker 2 So it that trying to get rejected is actually a powerful tool because it, as I said, I've gone out and couldn't get five rejections because I just came across as so confident the women wanted to give me their numbers.

Speaker 4 And it's really a Jedi mind trick you're doing on yourself because

Speaker 4 what can often create that low confidence or rejection? You want it to work.

Speaker 2 You want her to like you. Attachment drill.

Speaker 4 You want to get rejected.

Speaker 4 Yeah, you said outcome agnostic. You're becoming free from that outcome.
And then it's hard. I call it the rejectathon.

Speaker 2 And the rule is

Speaker 4 the rule is you got to go out. Five was my number as well.
And you have to get five rejections in a row. If you don't, you have to go back to zero and start over again.

Speaker 4 And guys just give up because they're like, sorry, I can't get there. Too many women are enjoying me.

Speaker 2 I'm having a good time, and so are they. And that's really all women want is to have a good time with us.

Speaker 2 And if we're having a good time, and you know, Buddha said that attachment to outcomes is the cause of all suffering.

Speaker 2 So that thing i want that woman to like me i want that woman to give me a phone number i want that woman to be my girlfriend well that that's just a recipe for suffering so if you are outcome agnostic where you just go interact with people have fun be you good things happen and then you know again not everybody's going to want to give us a number or go home with us or date us that's okay

Speaker 2 so just quickly the other thing that i do in my workshops with guys and i don't tell them ahead of time the reason why we're doing it and i and this little little drill has many different applications that I use with nice guys.

Speaker 2 But I just pair everybody up.

Speaker 2 Everybody's paired up with another guy. And person A will decide who person A is for two minutes, has to say to person B, I want, I want to be happy.

Speaker 2 I want to make a million dollars. I want a bigger dick.
I want world peace. You know, I want whatever.
And person B has to say no. to everything they say.
You know, I want to be happy. No.

Speaker 2 I want to make a million dollars. No.

Speaker 2 And so for two minutes, and then they switch and do it the other way. Now, just for two minutes of that, you know, the guys are always, they'll be laughing, having a good time.

Speaker 2 I have to holler over them, time, time, switch, you know, we're done. And then, and, you know, there's laughing and having a good time.
And then so we sit and make some applications.

Speaker 2 And I'll say, you guys, everybody says, oh, rejection hurts.

Speaker 2 I said, you just got rejected over and over again for two minutes and you were having fun and you were laughing and you were were having a good time, and I couldn't make you stop.

Speaker 2 What's the difference? And really, the difference only is the context and the story we put on it. This guy standing across from us telling us no for two minutes, we don't create a story about it.

Speaker 2 It's just no, it's just words, it's just a game, it's just play. But when we're with a woman, because we're attached to outcome and we want her to like us to validate our

Speaker 2 low sense of self, we get attached to that. And then, when she doesn't want to give us a number or go out with us, it hurts because of the story we put on it.

Speaker 2 But what if we treated all of our interactions with women like that game we were doing with a buddy at a workshop of just anticipating no, going for, you know, go for no, go for rejection, and then, you know, and just laugh and have fun and have a good time.

Speaker 2 And you get a lot more yeses that way.

Speaker 4 Beautifully said. I could not have said it better.

Speaker 2 I like that.

Speaker 4 I want. Plus, I like saying, you said something, Greg, I love a tip you gave about five minutes ago.
You said, don't ask, say what you want, tell her what you want. Hey, let's go on a date.

Speaker 4 I want to take you out. Let's go over here for a drink.

Speaker 2 I love that. Wait for me to open your door.
Yeah. Wait for me to open your door.

Speaker 4 Not can I open your door. Sometimes my clients come to me and they say, oh, I asked her if I could kiss her.

Speaker 2 And I said, no. Wait a minute.
Hang on shit.

Speaker 4 Wait a minute. Hey, don't ask.

Speaker 4 Either do it or at the very least say, I want to kiss you. Yeah.
And maybe read her signals. That's okay.
That's that's more me too friendly, but I'm I'm cool with that.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 I'm going to kiss you.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 one night I taught just an evening dating class at a local community college. And afterwards, I said, I'm hungry.
You guys won't go get a bite to eat.

Speaker 2 So about six or eight of us went to one of my favorite restaurants or a Rooster Chris restaurant near where I lived. And I knew all the wait staff in there and the bartenders.

Speaker 2 And this one woman, Jessica,

Speaker 2 kind of a snarky woman, but I liked her. She's a a good waitress, comes by our table and said, Jessica, I got a question.

Speaker 2 I was asking this for the benefit of all the guys. And I said, Jessica, how do you like it when your boyfriend leaves all the decisions up to you? Says, what do you want to do tonight?

Speaker 2 What do you want to eat? Where do you want to go?

Speaker 2 And she just looked at me and says, I hate it. And they're like, what's your order?

Speaker 2 I looked at the, well, after she left, I looked at the guys and said, they really do hate it when we leave those decisions up to them. We're making them the alpha again.

Speaker 2 And most women nowadays are alpha in so many parts of their life, they don't want to be alpha in their relationship.

Speaker 2 Now, they will, they can, but they really prefer that they have a man that will set the tone and lead and not be controlling, not be an asshole, but say, hey, let's go do this.

Speaker 2 And they'll go, yeah, let's go do it. They don't have to make all the decisions.

Speaker 2 So with the whole thing, getting numbers, when I first started dating, that was like, you know, my biggest like, I don't know, I don't know how to do this. I don't know how you get numbers.

Speaker 2 And so like being the good scientist that I was, I just practiced getting numbers.

Speaker 2 And what I quickly found out is if you have your phone out, I remember back then I had a razor phone back when razors were really cool, a little flip phone.

Speaker 2 You're looking like I've never heard of that.

Speaker 2 I have heard of that. I'm old enough.
Yeah. So I'd have it out on the, you know, on the bar next to me or whatever.
And I used to go eat my meals at happy hours. I just talked to the people around me.

Speaker 2 And you know, people once say, is that a razor? And you go, yeah, yeah. And I'd say, hey, you know, give me your number.

Speaker 2 I'm going to send you a message. I'll call you later.

Speaker 2 I'm going to take take you out later on this week and so you know i'd already have my phone out so always have your phone out and so whenever i go for a number i have the phone out now you know for several years had an iphone um

Speaker 2 i have my phone out and i say all right i'm gonna call you later this week give me your number i got a plan and i have my phone out you know it's like and use the assumptive clothes that salesmen use instead of saying do you want to buy some they say how many can i put you down for you know right so it's an assumptive close i get my phone's out it's It's like, you're going to give me a number.

Speaker 2 And I said, give me your number. And in my experience, eight or nine times out of 10, they'd give me a number if I just said, give me your number.

Speaker 2 Now I'd already be interacting with them and already gotten them to yes, you know, on several other things like in sales.

Speaker 2 And, you know, maybe one or two out of 10 would say, oh, I don't give my number out or I don't do this. And they'll go, give me your number.
I'll call you.

Speaker 2 And I'll go, nah, you're not going to call me. I said, just tell me you're not going to go out with me.

Speaker 2 Don't give me that. And so they'd give a number.

Speaker 2 And when they give me their number i key it into my phone right then and and hit dial you know hit hit hit the call button so that their phone rings in their purse or if it's nearby them and i i've never gotten a bogus number ever no woman's ever given me a fake number and by calling it you know if it's real because it's going to ring

Speaker 2 her purse will start vibrating right right so and then i leave a voicemail and i'll say you know you know hey hey hey sweetie pie or whatever you know i i i told my wife this i started calling every woman i dated sweetie really early on because i was dating so many women i didn't want to their names up especially in bed so i used to call them all sweetie oh you so oh sweetie

Speaker 2 oh sweetie so my wife actually thought that was pretty smart pretty clever so um so anyway uh i'd say hey sweetie you know this is robert i'm standing right in front of you i'm going to call you later this week i just wanted you to know who this number was you know on on your your keypad so i'd leave a message right then tell him i was going to call him and then you know if i wanted to i'd call him and follow up on it but by being just that directive that that you know give me your number your phone's out it's in your hand give it and then call it it it just it just clicks you know i can't again i can't tell you 80 to 90 percent of the women always gave me numbers

Speaker 2 sounds like that's a pretty good batting average i'll take that i'll take that batting average now only about 20 of them actually call you back if you call them but that's okay that's okay

Speaker 4 the abundance mindset of it there's lots of women out there it's a numbers game

Speaker 4 it is a numbers numbers game. And, but this whole, the, my whole feeling of that, what I call radical authenticity, showing women that real raw best you, you're not looking to attract them all.

Speaker 4 You're looking to attract 10 or 20%. And you're going to have more dates than you know what to do with if you're taking enough action with the right kind of confident mindset.
Let's finish.

Speaker 4 We have about two minutes left. And I want to give you some rapid fire.
tip questions, some good practical advice to close on, because you have a dating book out.

Speaker 4 And I was reading it today and I saw a bunch of of cool how-to parts of the book. So I'm going to throw a couple of problems at you.
If you would give me the first how-to that comes to mind.

Speaker 4 We'll just run through two or three real quick ones. Sound good?

Speaker 2 Good.

Speaker 4 How about how to stay out of the friend zone?

Speaker 2 Don't try to win her approval. Don't be overly nice.
Be willing to get to rejection.

Speaker 2 Beautiful. And bring your sexual agenda.
Don't hide it from her. You want to see her naked.
That's why you're talking to her. She knows it.
Love it.

Speaker 4 Next one. How to get over approach anxiety?

Speaker 2 Approach. Now, again, let me add that.
Again, I'm not a big fan of just approaching, walking across a room because you think a woman's hot. But

Speaker 2 if you are out being a social animal, you'll notice women sending you IOIs, indicators of interest. They'll smile, they'll look your way, they'll turn your body towards you.
Approach those women.

Speaker 2 So the best way I know to overcome approach anxiety is approach the women who've sent you signals of interest. They're already interested.
Okay. Well, you know, you almost got nothing to lose.

Speaker 2 And you don't have to impress them. They already noticed you.
So approach the women. As David Data says it, choose a woman who chooses you.

Speaker 2 Go another way I put it, go walk through open doors. Don't go pound on closed doors.
I like that. I like that.

Speaker 4 Two more.

Speaker 4 How do you know when a woman is interested in you and when she's not?

Speaker 2 Usually she'll like talking to you. She'll interact.
She'll touch you. She'll laugh at your dumb jokes.

Speaker 2 She'll move her body in and out.

Speaker 2 You'll know. You'll know.
You know, guys will say, well, you mentioned earlier, what to talk about? Guys will say, what do I do when the conversation just kind of comes to an end?

Speaker 2 And I go, say nice to meet you and walk away because you just reach low interest. If a woman is interested in you, the conversation will stay interesting.

Speaker 4 Excellent. Last one.
What is a shit test from women and how do you pass it?

Speaker 2 Okay. Shit test goes back to women being security-seeking creatures.

Speaker 2 A shit test doesn't mean they're being shitty to us. They're trying to test, do we have our shit together?

Speaker 2 Now, I do have to distinguish from men. Shit tests are not mean.
If a woman's mean, If she says hurtful things to you, if she's a bitch to you, walk away. She's mean.
Okay.

Speaker 2 Shit test is like they show up a little bit late. You know, they ask you to hold their purse.
Quick story. I was dating a woman, dated her for about three years.
You know, she was my home decorator.

Speaker 2 And she was, so we'd go out and she'd want to like plug a lamp in to see how it looked. And she'd hand me her Louis Vuitton purse.
It's like, you know, hold my purse. And I go, I don't hold purses.

Speaker 2 She goes, what? I go, I don't ask you to hold my bowling ball. So I'm not going to hold your purse.
That was just a joke because I don't have a bowling ball. And she like looked at me.
And so,

Speaker 2 and she was always, you know, that always kind of pissed her off a little bit. I said, what would you do if I wasn't here?

Speaker 2 What would you do with your purse if I wasn't standing here to hold it for you? Well, I'd set it down and plug the lamp in. I'd go, all right, you got it figured out.
You don't need me to hold it.

Speaker 2 And then we'd been dating, been together for a couple years. We were in a

Speaker 2 like a Starbucks coffee shop. There's a couple in front of us, and the woman was obviously the boss.

Speaker 2 the heifer. She was doing the ordering and she and the guy just kind of passed him.
She just hands him her purse like she just knows he's going to hold it.

Speaker 2 And he's just standing there while she orders with her purse in his hand. And my girlfriend looks at me and she goes, I get it now.

Speaker 2 So I don't remember what the question was, but it had to do with Holy Florida.

Speaker 4 Basically passing to the tests. Yes.

Speaker 2 They're not trying to be mean.

Speaker 4 They're looking to see that you have strength, that you're not going to wilt like a flower.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because I always say, you know, if we are their security system, it's like we're their castle and the marauding hordes are outside coming to rape and pillage. And they're inside the castle.

Speaker 2 They got to go around with a broomstick poking the window jams, the door jams, the window casings, you know, seeing where are they most vulnerable? Where's the castle most vulnerable?

Speaker 2 That's what they do with us. They got to see where we're most vulnerable.
So they're actually pretty good at poking us in our most vulnerable places. And we go, ouch, that hurt.
You're being mean.

Speaker 2 No, they're really not. They're just seeing,

Speaker 2 do we have enough of, like my ex said,

Speaker 2 are you man enough to stand up to me? and then i know you'll stand up for me

Speaker 4 wow beautiful one to end on you've said it all uh dr robert glover the books are no more mr nice guy and dating essentials for men his website is drglover.com and is there anything else you'd like to promote mention courses workshops what would you like people out there where would they where would you like them to come and find you well drglover.com is great and i'll just say i've been converting i i have half a dozen online courses that i've been teaching for years and written courses, but I'm converting them all to video.

Speaker 2 And I think your guys would love my video class on positive emotional tension. And the basic premise is women have to experience emotional tension to be attracted to a man and have sexual arousal.

Speaker 2 But unfortunately, we men tend to hate emotional tension in relationship. So the PET.
positive emotional tension video course. I think you guys are going to love it.

Speaker 4 Yes. As I understand it, you have four very popular online courses.
That's one of them. And we can find more about this at your website.
Is that right?

Speaker 2 Yep, drglover.com has it all.

Speaker 4 Excellent. Well, thank you for all the positive emotional value and tests and insight you've offered today.

Speaker 4 Thank you for all you've done for men, for me, back in the day, for so many guys. It means a lot to us.
And can't wait to talk to you again some other time.

Speaker 2 You're welcome. This is fun.
Let's do it again.