“Let Her Kick Rocks!”—How to Turn Rejection into Results (and Dates) with No-B.S. Love Expert Sabrina Zohar

Speaker 1 to all the guys out there, I could tell you this right now. Women have no idea what the fuck they're doing either.
I can tell you that with certainty.

Speaker 2 Welcome back to the How to Get a Girlfriend podcast. I'm your host, dating coach Connell Barrett.
I'm the real life hitch. If Hitch was a skinny, nerdy ginger with glasses.

Speaker 2 I'm here to help you flirt with confidence and get a great girlfriend and do it with authenticity no sketchy weird toxic pickup artist moves and i have a question for you are you ready for some quote no bullshit dating advice to help you become a stronger more confident you well those are the words of sabrina zohar my very special guest today sabrina is a dynamic very authentic straight talking dating and relationship expert.

Speaker 2 She also has a hugely successful podcast called the Sabrina Zohar Show. Millions tune in every week for her clear, actionable dating and relationship advice.

Speaker 2 Sabrina's been featured on NBC, on the Drew Barrymore Show, in Newsweek, and she has way over a million followers, both on Instagram and TikTok.

Speaker 2 So go to sabrinazohar.com for some no bullshit dating advice. Sabrina, welcome to the How to Get a Girlfriend podcast.

Speaker 1 Oh, hi, Connell. I'm so excited.
And hopefully TikTok will be around for more than four more days.

Speaker 2 Hopefully, it'll be around until this episode ends, or at least posts.

Speaker 2 I know, it's very scary times in the social media world, isn't it?

Speaker 1 It really is. It's an unsettling time because I'm like, oh, for all the pros, there are the cons, and I'm here for it, like everything else.
But yes, I think this is just honestly what it has been.

Speaker 1 It's been a

Speaker 1 lesson in surrender and letting go, right? We have no control of the outcome. We can't do anything about it.
And so this is a really good time to learn to sit in discomfort. And I am sitting in it.

Speaker 1 I'll tell you that.

Speaker 2 Well, let's talk a little bit about your story. Talk about discomfort.

Speaker 2 A lot of the men listening to this podcast, they're going to be getting back into dating after hitting a low point.

Speaker 2 They're going to be out of a breakup or maybe they are really getting over a tough period in their lives.

Speaker 2 And you launched your now very successful career in a moment when you were struggling with some things.

Speaker 2 You were on what you were about to be on Shark Tank, but at the last minute, they said, we don't have room for you.

Speaker 2 And I know you had a period where your dog passed away, your dating life was in a bad place. Can you talk about the low point you were in before you climbed out of it?

Speaker 1 Absolutely. I, and the reason I'm always so big on sharing the low points is because I think we see such a highlight reel, right?

Speaker 1 Like you look on Instagram and you see how everybody's happy and you see how everybody's successful and thriving. And ooh, look, I got rid of my anxiety.
And it's like, but nobody's showing you like.

Speaker 1 when you lift the veil and start to see the cracks, what's really going on.

Speaker 1 And for me, for years, I was single. I lived in New York for 12 years and then I moved to LA and I really thought that was going to be better for my dating life.

Speaker 1 And then I very quickly found out like it wasn't. And I was the poster child for that severe anxious attachment.

Speaker 1 Like if I didn't get a text message back within a couple of minutes, that said, I was spiling, I'm crying, I'm hyperventilating on the floor. And it really stemmed back from childhood, right?

Speaker 1 Just so much trauma. I grew up in a really, really just unhealthy, chaotic, and very just fucked up childhood.
So then I became an adult. And well, I grew up.

Speaker 1 I don't know if I became an adult quite yet. I moved to New York.
I was pursuing all of my stuff. And I went to acting school.
And then I dropped out. I went to fashion school.

Speaker 1 And then I got a career in fashion and just realized I hated it. And along the way, I started my clothing company after my mom got sick.
And it was this whole beautiful story.

Speaker 1 And that was like my first rock bottom. That was the first time I ever realized my anxiety was the problem.
And it didn't mean that I was. It meant that something in my body was causing issues.

Speaker 1 And dove in, started therapy, married my father, the man that was an exact replica. And of course, as we know how that ended, a year later, I was.

Speaker 2 You had a tall dad, so let's get a tall husband, right?

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, tall drink of piece of shit.

Speaker 1 And he was just, it was just the same. And like, when a lot of people ask him, like, I didn't, it wasn't literally the same person, but how I felt was very similar.

Speaker 1 He would gaslight, he would deflect, he would put me down. Everything was how other people were smarter than me.
And it was a way to manipulate and get me to become a smaller version of myself.

Speaker 1 And that's when I started therapy. That was 20, end of 2018.
And I dove in, and I just was feeling like there was nothing out there for me.

Speaker 1 I was listening to all the clickbait, text this to get a guy interested. And it's like, I got a dick pic, but that's all I got back.
Like, I didn't get him interested.

Speaker 2 I'm sorry about that, by the way. That was inappropriate of me.

Speaker 2 Thanks, Connell.

Speaker 1 And it was just therapy.

Speaker 2 Okay, got this off my chest. Actually, I keep it classy.
I send dick caricatures.

Speaker 1 I appreciate that. You're like, hey, or it's like an outline on your arm and you're like, use your imagination.

Speaker 2 A courtroom drawing of my dick.

Speaker 1 I'll take anything besides the actual. And it was just very clickbait, and it was just keeping me stuck in the same loops of constantly seeking external validation.

Speaker 1 And so, fast forward to 2021, I'm like, this is it. I'm moving from New York.
Fuck this. I'm done with COVID.
We're moving to LA, greener pastures. And I got out there, and I was even more miserable.

Speaker 1 I was even more alone. I'm this fast-talking New Yorker in a sound where, like, that's not what people wanted.

Speaker 1 And it's really where I actually found myself because I started to realize, like, there's nothing wrong with me. I just don't need to prove myself to get be validated by other people.

Speaker 1 And I started to change the way I dated. I was really starting to set boundaries and say no and demand more and say, hey, you're emotionally inavailable.
That doesn't work for me.

Speaker 1 And I, so fast forward to 2022, the year that you were kind of mentioning, I said, fuck, I said, fuck off to my dad. He tried to disown me again because I said I wasn't going to go away with him.

Speaker 1 And I was just done. It was the 10th time this has happened.
And I said, okay, I'm not doing this anymore. And from that moment, I truly changed the way I dated.

Speaker 1 I started to really understand things differently. Fast forward to Chark Tank.
I'm on set. Like this was, Sabrina, you are next.
Your outfit is steamed. Software is ready.

Speaker 1 You're pitching to the sharks. Eight months of prep, like this is it to be told, I'm so sorry, we don't have space today.
You're going to have to go home. And I was suicidal.

Speaker 1 I went home and I remember just like, that was it. I was like, okay, how am I going to do this? Like, I, I was, it was a dark place.
And then fast forward, two months later, my dog passes away.

Speaker 1 I'm dating this guy that was just not there for me. And that was my rock bottom.
And I remember just thinking, one of my friends texted me and said, hey, man, why don't you just start a TikTok?

Speaker 1 And I was like, I had my own limiting beliefs. I was like, nobody cares about what I have to say.
No one likes me. Who's going to listen to me? And she was like, well, I do.

Speaker 1 And I was like, okay, you know what? I'll try it. And one video turned into two, turned into just consistently showing up.
Then I met my now partner. We slept together on the first date.

Speaker 1 And I left going, I might never see this guy again. Because I really was like, I had nothing else to lose.
And I figured, like, you know what?

Speaker 1 I'm not going to hold on to the outcome because every time I try to plan something, you know, as I say, you make plans, God laughs.

Speaker 1 And I just became very clear that the more I try to control other people and the outcome, the more disconnected I am from myself.

Speaker 1 And in that moment, it's like, for anybody listening, I think when we get to those rock bottoms, we really think like this is it.

Speaker 1 But it's actually, you could become a phoenix rising from the ashes in that moment because you get to rebuild the version of who you'd like to be and say, I'm done accepting bullshit.

Speaker 1 I'm done dealing with... if this is, you know, men that are listening, women that are taking advantage or men or they that are treating me like shit, putting me down.

Speaker 1 This is, this is going to be the last time. And my mama always used to say, I want you to remember this moment right now so that you can remember how far you've come in six months when you look back.

Speaker 1 And I use these low moments, like even this morning, I cried this morning. I had a whole anxious moment and I stopped and I was like, but you're a human.

Speaker 1 You're allowed to do this and you will make decisions moving forward that will support you in the ways that you need.

Speaker 2 Do you look back on that rock bottom moment now through the lens of, well, it sucked, but I'm glad it happened or it happened for me rather than to me?

Speaker 1 Absolutely. I obviously, I would never want my dog to pass away.

Speaker 1 Like that was the one moment, but I could, I have never been more grateful shark tank didn't happen because I'm trying to sell my clothing company right now.

Speaker 1 Like I'm ready to move on and do something different. I love what I do.
And, you know, I. It's going to be a sad, morbid thing.
But like, so my partner's sister passed away.

Speaker 1 She took her life in early 2022.

Speaker 1 And my dog passed away at the end of it.

Speaker 1 And we both have said, had we not lost something that meant the world to us to really shake us up and make us realize what's important, we would never be together.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 it's sad, and it's like, I understand if anyone's going through a breakup, a loss, grieving, grief is an emotion, and we often don't give ourselves the opportunity to really feel it and process it.

Speaker 1 But it's okay, it's part of the process. And I promise you, in the future, you will look back and at the very least say, I understand why it happened.

Speaker 2 Yeah. My rock-bottom dating moment was: I barely dated into my, well into my 20s and early 30s.

Speaker 2 I was just racked racked with self-doubt I'm a nerd nerdy shy skinny ginger women don't like me so I married the one woman who ever wanted to be with me and she left me nine weeks after our wedding and

Speaker 2 reportedly rumored reportedly for a guy on a cool guy in a Harley a cool mustachio guy in a Harley certainly not my type of I was not that type of guy and I remember feeling like well that's it All women have rejected me and it's pretty much over for me.

Speaker 2 But now I can look back at that and say, if it wasn't for that moment, that's when I really decided to change my dating life.

Speaker 2 Had that not happened that way, then I wouldn't be a dating coach and I wouldn't have met my current wonderful partner, Jess.

Speaker 2 So yeah, I think really terrible things, when they happen, they can happen for you rather than to you.

Speaker 1 And it takes us out of victim, right? When you're like, oh, it's happening for me.

Speaker 1 Like even this morning, I'm going through my whole spiel, but I'm still knowing, like, never once did I say, woe is me. I was crying about, I'm scared, I'm stressed, I'm feeling an emotion.

Speaker 1 This is really, you know, I'm supposed to move to LA in two months and the fire is, and the city is under fire. I don't know where we're going to live, right?

Speaker 1 I have so many unknowns and you're a business owner and there's all of these aspects.

Speaker 1 But what's really beautiful is to be able to stop and say, like right now, even for me, I get to choose what I'm going to do moving forward. I am not a child whose parents make those decisions.

Speaker 1 I am not beholden to anybody else. And I look at it personally and I'm curious your thoughts.
I think a lot of people are really scared of being triggered, right?

Speaker 1 I hear this every day and I'd be curious how often you hear, you know, oh, well, I'd rather be single. I'd rather be single than I have to deal with it as much.

Speaker 1 And what I hear there is I'm like, ooh, but you're limiting your growth.

Speaker 1 Because for me, moments like even this morning where I'm triggered and I'm crying and I'm scared, it allows me to, one, reparent myself and say, but I have my back and I can prove to myself that I am here to support myself.

Speaker 1 But it's also data, right? So I'm looking going, okay, where are my friction points? Okay, this part of my business just doesn't serve me anymore. It's time for me to let it go.
Am I scared?

Speaker 1 Yes, right? It's the same with relationships. This relationship isn't serving me.
Do we have a guarantee that tomorrow you'll meet somebody else? No, right? None of us know what's to come.

Speaker 1 But you know what I do know? By letting go of this, I'm making space for what could come, which means that I have an opportunity to co-create and to have a new future, similar to your story, right?

Speaker 1 You had. And if you held on to your ex, you wouldn't have had this entire new life that is waiting for you.
But we need to. Well, I settled.

Speaker 2 I settled. Exactly.
And she settled for me. We both settled.
It was a settling competition. It was a tie.
No, she won. She won.

Speaker 1 I've been there, right? And it's like you go, oh, oh, they're here, right? Oh, they're here and they're, they're nice and they treat me well.

Speaker 1 But I think it's really an opportunity right now because like I'd much rather be alone than in bad company.

Speaker 1 But even if it meant I lost all my money tomorrow and I was on the street, it's like, but I have me and that's really what matters versus being contingent and codependent on somebody else.

Speaker 1 So anybody that's going through a hard time, if I can fucking leave you with anything after this dissertation and TED talk that I'm talking about about hitting rock bottom, is embrace it.

Speaker 1 It's okay to sit in the discomfort. You're allowed to sit and fucking cry and scream.
I literally screamed this morning and I was like, oh, I feel better. You can shake.
That's normal.

Speaker 1 That's your nervous system trying to regulate. Don't fight it.

Speaker 2 I wish Ted Danson would do a TED talk.

Speaker 2 I just really want to see that and hear that. One more question about triggers and the internal struggle people have in dating and men, especially.
And then we'll get to some fun practical things.

Speaker 2 Because whenever I have a woman on this podcast, my listener is dying to know what the hell do women want? How do we flirt with you? How do we make things happen?

Speaker 2 But there's one more thing I want to talk about.

Speaker 2 Your podcast is kick ass. I went back and I listened to your 100th episode of the Sabrina Zohar show.
And it's from October. And there's about a 30-second clip I want to play.

Speaker 2 And I want to then ask you about it. Here it is.

Speaker 1 And so for me personally,

Speaker 1 when I started all this, I just kept saying, who gives a shit about me? No one wants to hear me talk. Who cares about me? As I was scared.
I was terrified of being rejected.

Speaker 1 And this was the reality, actually being rejected. Because what is the definition of rejection is to be ridiculed and judged for who you are.

Speaker 1 And I know so many of you guys have experienced that in dating, but we have to also peel back the layers and say, but does that hold any weight?

Speaker 2 When I heard that, I know you were talking about the first social media posts you were putting out there, but when you said that, I felt, wow, that's how I felt. Am I going to fail?

Speaker 2 Am I going to have a date and get rejected by this woman? Fail your self-doubt. It sounds like you were struggling with it in your business as well as in your personal life.

Speaker 1 It's so normal. And I think we, I'm glad we're humanizing this because we often think, oh, I'm just anxious in relationships.
I hear that all the time. I'm like, no, no, no, I'm fine with my friends.

Speaker 1 I'm fine in my job. I'm fine with everything else.
It's just in dating. And I used to think the same.
I thought, okay, well, once I get my partner, I'll be okay. And then all this will go away.

Speaker 1 But it doesn't because those are core root and like, those are my core beliefs. At my core, there's a little girl, right, that learned at a very young age, you're too much.

Speaker 1 Nobody's here to listen to you.

Speaker 1 Like my father was just in town, and in the middle of a, me, in the middle of a sentence, he literally just turned his back on me and just flippantly just stopped listening. And I was like,

Speaker 1 And that was the messaging I received.

Speaker 1 And so when I started to show up, and it's same with dating, like, oh, let's peel it back a couple of years ago when I first really started to put myself out there.

Speaker 1 I was terrified of telling a guy, hey, I'd like a relationship. I'm not into casual because I was scared he was going to reject me and say, you're too much.
Ew, goch. Wow.
Way to be clingy and needy.

Speaker 1 And that was my fear of being reaffirmed that my father was saying that to to me. And so I figured, okay, let me be perfect.
Let me just be the cool girl. Let me show up how they want.

Speaker 1 And I completely self-abandoned because I was so scared of them rejecting me that I was rejecting myself.

Speaker 1 I was so scared of them not choosing me that I wasn't choosing myself because now, right, every day when I post a video, I am beholden to every fucking piece of shit on the internet that decides that they don't like what I have to say and that they hate my face and they hate my voice and I trigger them and I should say I should kill myself.

Speaker 1 Like I get some of the most disgusting comments. But what I also know is that on the other side of it, there are 20,000 million more people that are resonating and feel it and love it.

Speaker 1 And the reason I bring that up is because you might go on a date and that woman might reject you. She's not your fucking person.
Anybody that is going to reject you, right? What does rejection mean?

Speaker 1 Being ridiculed for who you are. Well, let me ask you on a first date, how the fuck are you being ridiculed for who you are when this person's known you for 20 minutes?

Speaker 1 And maybe they're emotionally unavailable. Maybe they're, and what we see often is when we start to internalize that, that's our core belief.

Speaker 1 I would start to look and say, how familiar does that other person feel? If you feel rejected by them because, well, they were dismissive of me, does that remind me of my parents?

Speaker 1 Because that feels familiar. Our brain loves to hold on to what-ifs because anxiety is safer than uncertainty because it knows how to protect us from that.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I want, that's such a great point about rejection and what it really is or isn't. I want the man listening to this, the nice guy.
He's shy, he's introverted. He might not have dated very much.

Speaker 2 He doesn't have a lot of dating self-confidence. But I want him to realize a woman you barely know can't really reject you.
Not really. Now, if my girlfriend, Jess, came to me and said, Connel,

Speaker 2 I've fallen out of love with you. You're hung like a baby carrot.
I'm leaving you for any of the Hemsworths. Cool.
I'll feel rejected. I have something to deal with.

Speaker 2 But a date that doesn't go your way, an approach that doesn't go your way, that's not rejection. That's just information.

Speaker 1 And honestly,

Speaker 1 if somebody was like, I'm going for a Hemsworth, I'd be like, hey, me too. Great call.
Like, I don't get, have fun, enjoy. Get me work.

Speaker 2 She's got a sister.

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 1 And, you know, it's so funny because I hear, like, I actually love having the male aspect here because I have actually a lot of male clients that I work with individually, but my audience is 70% female.

Speaker 1 So I'm very inundated in what women are going through. And it's so funny because I hear this every single day from women of like, men are the ones in control.
Men are the one in power.

Speaker 1 Men are the one who get to make a decision. I feel like no guys like me.
And honestly, what I see more often than not is like, we just keep going for the opposite of what we're not receiving, right?

Speaker 1 So for a lot of the women that keep going for these emotionally unavailable men, the one that are discrediting him, listen, of course we all want the 1%. We all want the 6'5.

Speaker 1 tall, blue-eyed finance, right? Like every girl wants a Helmsworth. But then we also have to look and go, well, who am I, right? Like, who am I to show up and say, oh, I deserve all of these things?

Speaker 1 Same with men. It's anybody, right? You got to kind of understand what's realistic in your life.
But to all the guys out there, I can tell you this right now.

Speaker 1 women have no idea what the fuck they're doing either. I can tell you that with certainty.
Women are equally as anxious, equally as unsure, equally as insecure.

Speaker 1 And if you're going after the women that are avoidant or being dismissive or pushing you away or shutting down, please stop internalizing as that's you because I'm here to let you know that is not about you.

Speaker 1 That's their bullshit. That's their own core beliefs.
That's their childhood. That's their trauma.
And that's their projection onto you.

Speaker 1 Now, that's not to say that we can't take accountability of our own behavior.

Speaker 1 But when we are so scared, when we're so crippled by fear like my friend Masha she's a brilliant nervous system coach and she always asked me are you running towards a goal or are you running away from fear yeah And I'm always like, well, what's the difference?

Speaker 1 And she's like, let's talk about it. When you're running towards a goal, you know it's going to take time.
You know that it's going to take patience. You know that you're building something, right?

Speaker 1 So you're building towards something. When you're running away from fear, there's a dysregulation.
You're always in survival. You're always trying to get some kind of safety.

Speaker 1 And what's so important is creating that internal safety so that you go on on a date and it doesn't align and this woman doesn't get your sense of humor.

Speaker 1 She doesn't like that you're more introverted and shy. Let her go fucking kick rocks without shoes.
She's not your person. You don't need to change who you are to get someone else.

Speaker 1 I'll tell you, baby. I have my partner now because I've always been me.
I am unapologetically showing up like this. And if you don't like it, that's not my fucking problem.

Speaker 1 Everybody is welcomed, but it is not my job to keep you here.

Speaker 1 And I want everyone to embody that because who you are is amazing, but I need you to believe that because I can't be the one to tell you that.

Speaker 2 Preach it. That was amazing.

Speaker 2 You struggle with dating, right? Sure, you have a good job and cool friends, but you just aren't sure how to flirt. The apps don't work for you.
And sometimes women put you in the friend zone.

Speaker 2 It's frustrating. Hey, I struggled with dating too.
As an introvert and a total nerd, I didn't just live in the friend zone. I owned real estate there, but I escaped.

Speaker 2 Using the dating philosophy of radical authenticity, which I've used to help thousands of men in 17 countries find love. It's what I wrote about in my best-selling book, Dating Sucks But You Don't.

Speaker 2 And radical authenticity is why Psychology Today called me the best dating coach in America. And now I want to personally help you attract your dream girlfriend.

Speaker 2 So go to datingtransformation.com and book a free call with me. On our call, I'll tell you how my one-on-one coaching will help you find your dream girlfriend.

Speaker 2 And you'll be doing it by flirting with confidence and authenticity. No creepy pickup tricks needed.

Speaker 2 So go to datingtransformation.com, book a free call today, and let my personalized coaching help you get a great girlfriend.

Speaker 2 No, I mean, in a word, I teach men to be what I call two words, radically authentic. I want you to show up as the most distilled, best,

Speaker 2 but most distilled real version of you. I want a guy to give a woman whatever his version of a straight shot of Jameson is.
Don't be some watered-down wine spritzer.

Speaker 2 Don't say all the things you think she wants to hear. Be really genuine and real.
And that is going to help attract your ideal type within reason.

Speaker 2 And if she, as you just said, if she's not your type, okay, go kick rocks. There's other people out there for me.

Speaker 1 See you later, alligator. Here's also the thing.
You want to know why the cool girl and the nice guy don't actually get what they want, right? It's because they're one-dimensional.

Speaker 1 It's not sexy to have somebody that doesn't say no, right? I don't want, and I, you know, as a straight woman, I'm talking men and you're a straight man, so we can talk in those heterosexual norms.

Speaker 1 And of course, this is open to anybody. None of this is genderized.
It's just that I'm speaking in those norms.

Speaker 1 And, but when we really look at it, if we're actually like objectively removing ourselves from all of these aspects, it's like who I am doesn't need to be validated by other people if I know who I am.

Speaker 1 And so when we're constantly trying to show up, right? The cool guy or the cool girl, she doesn't have boundaries. She's not going to say no.
Oh my God, whatever you want.

Speaker 1 I'm just down to do whatever you want. You canceled plans on me last minute.
It's cool, whatever.

Speaker 1 Like I'm not going to make a big deal because I'm not going to push you away by being too much and then the flip side the nice guy sure whatever you say wherever you want to go whatever you want to do you want to walk all over me no worries the reason those people fail is because again it's one-dimensional it's really attractive to hear that doesn't work for me oh did you just say no to me oh you have boundaries oh hi hey i think you're really lovely but like especially let's talk about the texting thing for a second yeah because i know a lot of my dudes don't know how to navigate this and i know a lot of my girls are highly fucking anxious and don't know how to navigate this so allow me to kind of help if i can.

Speaker 1 You don't have to do something that feels authentic.

Speaker 1 You don't need to text a girl every morning, good morning, just to make sure that she's still going to like you because what you're doing is you're on a dopamine loop.

Speaker 2 And I know you coach a lot of men in addition to women. What are some of the texting issues you see men struggling with? And how do you help them?

Speaker 1 The biggest issue I see is this.

Speaker 1 There's no rules, right? Nobody knows what the fuck they're doing. Nobody knows who to listen to, what to do.

Speaker 1 And I see a lot of confusion because at the end of the day, you don't owe anybody a text before you've established a relationship.

Speaker 1 So if you're dating somebody, like when I first started dating my partner, I was highly anxious, right? I still had my anxiety. I was working through it.

Speaker 1 I was so much more secure, but we weren't texting a ton.

Speaker 1 And I asked him and I said, hey, you know, after maybe like a month, I said, you know, I'd really love more texting in between our dates to feel more connected when I'm not with you.

Speaker 1 And he wrote the most, and this goes back to like not being the nice guy. He wrote back a text with the most beautiful boundary saying, hey, great to hear from you.
I want to just be clear.

Speaker 1 This is not a sign of my disinterest. I work in tech and I stare at computers for nine hours a day.

Speaker 1 The last thing I want to do is get off my computer and now be on a mini computer, building a relationship with somebody when I have my dog and my friends in front of me that I'd like to be purposeful with.

Speaker 1 I would love to take you on a date this week and get to know you in person, but I completely respect it if that doesn't work for you. And I was just like, oh my God, that's so hot.

Speaker 1 And we, and we caught, we talked about it. He said, how about I call you or FaceTime you a couple of times a week instead of texting?

Speaker 1 And like, then as we started to date more, like to this day, he hates it. And what I see more often than not is this wild false sense of intimacy.

Speaker 1 I feel a lot of men feel they have to text every morning good morning and they have to do stuff to keep the girl interested.

Speaker 1 And it's like, if you're going to date somebody who is so anxious that if you don't text them good morning, they're going to end it with you.

Speaker 1 I would highly suggest you seek another partner because that's going to be the least of your problems.

Speaker 1 If this person cannot regulate their nervous system for a couple of hours and sit in some discomfort that you have a fucking job and a life and cannot respond to them immediately.

Speaker 1 And this is is the flip side. If any of my guys are listening saying, oh shit, I do that to people, then it's time to look at what does the texting signify?

Speaker 1 Is it your nervous system saying, well, if they text me, they like me. Duh, right? No.
Plenty of people could text 30 people in a day and have no intentions of building a relationship.

Speaker 1 My suggestion would be focus on what makes you feel good and how you can show up sustainably. Stop engaging in these constant text battles.
Set some fucking boundaries.

Speaker 1 Hey, I'd love to get to know you in person.

Speaker 1 I'm incredibly intentional about the way that i date but i'm not trying to create a false sense of intimacy on the texting are you free this week let's have a face time vibe check do what you can within your power to show up authentically but then the rest is not up to you how the other person handles things okay i get to determine if that works for me but i do not get to determine what they do and how i can control their actions damn

Speaker 2 well

Speaker 2 go ahead

Speaker 1 honestly i was gonna say i had somebody write in this morning he was a gentleman saying i've been dating this girl and i get a lot of dudes that write in because there's confusion from everybody and he said i've been dating this girl and she's super like we've only had two dates but she's super aloof and i've consistently tried to like he's like i sent her flowers and she felt that was too much and i was like yeah because it is i was like you want me you had one you had one drink and then one coffee date and like you barely kissed i was like flowers is really it's a lot that's yeah that's me right uh 20 years ago

Speaker 1 i was gonna say you know what i'm saying yeah and she told him like i don't feel comfortable with this then he said when she was sick can i bring you stuff she was like no, I don't want you to come to my house.

Speaker 1 I'm not feeling well. He then said, can I see? He won't stop.
He's not respecting that she keeps saying like, please, I'm not interested. And then he said, can I see you again?

Speaker 1 And she goes, no, I'm not interested. So then he writes me, what can I do to get her back? How can I get her to start texting me again? Now she's getting dry with texting.

Speaker 1 And all I hear is self-abandonment. I'm not shaming him.
This is not about putting him down. This is about helping so we can go, oh, fuck, I do that.

Speaker 1 That is self-abandonment because you want someone else to choose you. If you're, let me tell you this.

Speaker 1 If you say, if I don't text this person, they're going to forget about me or I won't hear from them, you've already lost them.

Speaker 2 Yeah. On the topic of what not to do as a man, which those are great, I have a female friend who's a neurosurgeon.
And she told me a story once about a date she had planned with a guy for 8 p.m.

Speaker 2 on Thursday night.

Speaker 1 What is this, Barcelona?

Speaker 2 Yeah, basically.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 she

Speaker 2 works all day.

Speaker 2 So she's literally in surgery all day she gets out of surgery at 6 6 30 she grabs her phone for the first time she has not checked her phone all day she looks at the messages from this guy 9 a.m hey good morning five happy faces 10 15 did you get my message 1145 are we still on for tonight 115 hello are you ghosting me 330 ish

Speaker 2 you

Speaker 2 You bitch. I can't believe you're doing this.
You're ghosting me. And he just had this explosion of anger.
And she literally did not see any of the messages until she got out of work.

Speaker 2 She was, she was saving lives all day. So to me, that's a man who understandably has some pain issues that he still needs to deal with.

Speaker 1 That's a lot of projection, right?

Speaker 1 And I see that with women all the time of like, well, it takes 10 seconds to send a text message. And it's like, nah, girl, that's not fucking owed to you.

Speaker 1 Just because I have my phone in my hand all day does not mean I have to give you access to me. You can message me.
I have 1.1 million followers on Instagram. Anybody can DM me.

Speaker 1 That doesn't mean you get access to me. That doesn't mean I have to answer or that I owe you a response.

Speaker 1 And I think we've normalized this of like, well, I should have 24-7 access and you need to text me and you need to quell my anxiety and you need to tell me everything's okay.

Speaker 1 When that guy, what he did was... completely disrespectful, but he filled in the blanks with his own projections and he filled in the blanks with you're ghosting me.

Speaker 1 I knew it right because he's saying she doesn't like me. She's not going to be there.
Instead of learning and saying, you know what, Let me just see how this plays out.

Speaker 1 It might be uncomfortable, but let me go for a walk. Let me keep myself busy today.
And you know what? Here's the thing.

Speaker 1 If she goes to me and I don't hear from her, I'll take myself out to dinner tonight. Who cares? Kick rocks.

Speaker 2 Not for me. Kick rocks.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I'm getting a tattoo today. Lower back tattoo.

Speaker 1 Kick rocks. And it's just going to be, or it's just, I would see like a foot and then just a bunch of rocks.
Kicking some rocks.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 2 Because what's more manly than a lower back tattoo of a kick rocks?

Speaker 1 I could not agree more. And like, to that point, like, I don't know if you hear this, but I'm really tired of this like toxic masculinity, high-value man.

Speaker 1 You know, I think it can confuse a lot of people, but let me be the one to clarify, your value doesn't come by how much money you make. Your value doesn't come by the car you drive.

Speaker 1 Your value comes by your morals, your ethos, and ethics.

Speaker 1 And if you're saying, well, if I were taller or more attractive or more successful, then I'd get all these girls, you're fucking kidding yourself.

Speaker 1 Because I can tell you, I have the most, I have some very, very good-looking clients that are still lonely and sad

Speaker 1 because just because you're attractive, it gets you in the door, it doesn't keep you at the table. Who you are matters more than what it is that you're trying to sell people on.

Speaker 2 What was it about your now partner when you first saw his Hinge profile, when you first connected with him online? What did you like about him on Hinge? What was he doing right?

Speaker 2 What got him that first date with Sabrina?

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 excuse me.

Speaker 1 So the funny thing is, when I met him, Clem had passed away like three weeks prior.

Speaker 1 I was so, yes, I was so not in any, I mean, that was my best friend of 10 years. Like this was my everything.

Speaker 1 And he was my object permanence, my safety, my regulating tool. Like I did everything with him.
You saw Clem, you saw me. It was like a shadow.
And so I lost myself, frankly speaking.

Speaker 1 And at that point, I was coming down to San Diego to see my sister. I was looking at apartments.
I was like, I think it's time for me to like make a change. Let's get out of LA.

Speaker 1 I don't need to be there anymore. I'm not happy there.
And so when I came down here, I had all these guys matching with me.

Speaker 1 And when I saw Ryan's profile, because he matched with me, I used it passively. I was so not in my my head.
I didn't have the time to swipe. I just wasn't there mentally.

Speaker 1 And the first thing that caught my attention was he wrote a paragraph. He didn't hard a fucking photo.
He didn't talk about my looks. He didn't mention anything about my appearance.

Speaker 1 He pulled something from my profile that said I was new from New York because I'd like moved from New York. And he started a full conversation of like, hey, you know, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 Like, I see you're from New York. It's funny.
I'm born and raised in Encinitas, but I actually lived in San Francisco for 10 years. A lot of people tell me I sound like I'm from New York.

Speaker 1 What are the differences that you've seen? Like, he asked questions that I was like, whoa, this guy's like genuinely giving a shit about getting to know me. Then I went on his profile.

Speaker 1 Outside of him being 6'4, right? Like, he's a tall guy, but like, he's not my type. I go for the same cookie cutter.
It's, it's, my mom used to say, it's in, she was like, it's impressive.

Speaker 1 You find them. No matter where you go, they all look the same.
There's just a different name. And they're tall, tattooed, six-pack, blue-eyes, blonde hair.
Like, they all were carbon copies.

Speaker 1 Ryan is incredibly attractive. He just wasn't that.

Speaker 1 And not in a negative way. And when I first looked at his photo, I'll tell you a couple of things.
One, he had a diversity of photos. He had one dancing with his grandmother.

Speaker 1 And I was like, oh, he's goofy. He had one with his best friend on the top of a mountain about to like jump off and skydive.
I was like, oh, he's adventurous. He had one of him.
This is a big one.

Speaker 1 The crown and his chin were within 10 degrees of the photo. It wasn't an angle.

Speaker 1 It shows that you are secure when a photo is directly onto your face. So if you have it above 10 degrees of your forehead, that shows insecurity, right?

Speaker 1 Think about how many times you do the angles, right? You're hiding something. And his profile had depth.

Speaker 1 One of the questions he asked was, what's something that you've changed your mind recently about and what prompted the change?

Speaker 1 And his response, when I asked him, he was like, I want to see how growth-minded people are. And I was like, I love that.

Speaker 1 We talked for an hour on Hinge, very good conversation. It was of depth.
He asked questions. I asked questions back.
It wasn't W-Y-D or

Speaker 1 what's up.

Speaker 2 Was it texting back and forth?

Speaker 1 Just on the app, you know, when you first met

Speaker 2 back and forth.

Speaker 1 Right. Okay.

Speaker 1 And then after an hour, he said, can I get your phone number if you're comfortable? If not, I can make the plan here. Can I take you out? I said, great.
We exchanged, barely had a tech.

Speaker 1 The texting was all of 10 minutes back and forth. And he said, listen, I'm putting my phone down.
Not interested in being on text. Can't wait to meet you.
We didn't talk for a couple of days.

Speaker 1 I didn't know if I was going to meet up with him. He confirmed the date.

Speaker 1 He said, I will be there at 10. Day of.
I text him. I had to change the plans.
No problem. The reason I really, he was the only one out of like 10 guys.

Speaker 1 You know, when you're new to a city, you get all the people. Sure.
The reason I gave him the opportunity was because because he showed up differently. He asked questions that were different.

Speaker 1 And to this day, when I asked him, what made you choose me? And people ask him all the time, he was like, the question she asked me. On my first date, I asked him, how'd your last relationship been?

Speaker 1 And what did it teach you about yourself? I don't care about your ex. I want to see the accountability you take.
I want to see how you speak about people. How did you do that?

Speaker 2 I want to see.

Speaker 1 Exactly. What did change about yourself? What did you implement? Do you want children? Marriage.
I wanted to make sure I'm not wasting my fucking time.

Speaker 1 Because if he told me, I want 20 kids and I'm here going, I don't even know if I have one, we're not compatible. I wasn't scared of being myself and we just had a nice time.

Speaker 1 We hooked up that night and I left going, this guy was great. And if I see him again, cool.
And if not, this was fun.

Speaker 1 I released control to the outcome and I allowed myself to show up authentically and I allowed him to. His profile stood out above a sea of pineapple on pizza.

Speaker 1 Like, or I'll fall for you if you trip me. It's like, stop googling what to put on your fucking profile and stop asking.

Speaker 1 I have had so many men send me that they use ChatGBT to make their profile and I can tell. It is, you're not fooling anybody.

Speaker 1 And if you improve your profile and say, I don't get a lot of matches, that's okay. At least you're authentic.

Speaker 2 Women don't want to date Hal from Space Odyssey. They want to date the actual man.
And that's unfortunately what ChatGPT will create if you let AI write your profile.

Speaker 1 Exactly. It's not real.
It's not you. It's not being the person that I, I want someone to fall in love with who I am, not the version of who I pretend to be.
And that's why we then feel.

Speaker 1 And my partner and I went very slow. I was the first person to say, I'm not, he asked me to be his girlfriend twice.
and I said no.

Speaker 1 It took me about four months until I was like, okay, because he's more introverted. He's a bit more avoidant leaning.
He's more

Speaker 1 inside. I'm more, as you can see, hello.
I don't shut up. And it just took us a minute to see if we jived authentically.
And that's okay. It's not a negative to go slow.

Speaker 1 It's not an excuse for bad behavior.

Speaker 2 People have chemistry, different kinds of chemistry, and it takes a little bit of time to find out what kind of chemistry you have, if any.

Speaker 1 Exactly. They might not be your type off the bat, but that's not a bad thing.

Speaker 2 That was great. Everything you said about what made Ryan stand out to you was fantastic.
Can you pull back a little bit?

Speaker 2 Feel free to speak for more women than just yourself, or you can just speak through the lens of Sabrina if you like. But when a woman is looking at a man's profile, how does she look at it?

Speaker 2 How does she decide if and when to swipe right or left? I know it happens, as you said on the different podcasts, it happens in about four seconds if somebody swipes left or right.

Speaker 2 Can you take us through how a woman makes that decision to swipe either right or left?

Speaker 1 Yeah, two to four seconds is the average time that you have. Now, I'll speak for for me and the people I talk to, obviously all women, right? There's some women that are looking at your job, right?

Speaker 1 The first thing they do is, how much money are you making? That's, that's them, right? But I would say the average person, the first photo, most people won't get past the first photo.

Speaker 1 You got to remember, you're sitting there going like this. I could get done 100 profiles in a matter of a minute.
And so one thing we're looking at, I do not want a group photo as your first.

Speaker 1 I don't know who you are. Don't make me scroll to the last photo to find out you're the ugly one, right? Like don't,

Speaker 1 it's harsh to say, but like, come on, let's just say it. And I had that one time.

Speaker 1 This guy had all these photos of these tall male adonises, and he was the one that was like five, six, right, balding, standing next. And it's like, don't do this to yourself.
Like, be who you are.

Speaker 1 Because guess what? He would say, people would message him and ask who his friends were. It's like, you don't want to do that.

Speaker 1 So I would say, like, most women, what they're looking for is realistically, they're going to go and see your height. They're going to see if you have children.
They're going to see where you live.

Speaker 1 And they're going to look and see what your lifestyle is. A lot of people,

Speaker 1 I would say, more women meet, read, a lot of women read the

Speaker 1 prompts. I am so tired of men not putting any effort into the prompts, and then you wonder why the fuck you don't get matches.

Speaker 1 But on the flip side, one thing I see all the time that I cannot stand is stop putting a laundry list of what you are looking for in a partner without giving me anything about yourself.

Speaker 1 Like, I see it of like, I'm looking for vulnerability and honesty. And it's like, how is this a conversation starter? What do you want me to start with? Like, oh, well, my dad used to hit me as a kid.

Speaker 1 It's like,

Speaker 1 how do you want me to start a conversation when you're just giving a sentence or on the weekends i love to have a slow sunday it's like okay you and everybody else like you're not unique you're not different you're not special stand out in the crowd think about it you are one in a million and here's a harsh reality dating apps are 70 men

Speaker 1 yep they are so if you know that you have a 70 of people that are you are vying against, how can you stand out in the crowd while still maintaining your authenticity? Women are looking at

Speaker 1 don't use, don't use therapy jargon to try to get a date. I am so tired of seeing in these profiles, like I'm self-aware and looking for somebody who is in therapy.
And it's like,

Speaker 1 right off the bat, what you're showing me is that you're using this to get a date.

Speaker 1 You're not using this to show that you're growing because anybody who's really doing the work, you don't need to talk about it. It's like being rich, right?

Speaker 1 You don't need to talk about how much money you have when you're actually rich. You do that to get attention and validation.
Right.

Speaker 2 So, are you a fan of something that conveys growth as long as it's done in an organic way on a dating profile? Because I am too.

Speaker 2 I love having, I tell a guy, what are you working on in your life?

Speaker 2 What's your New Year's resolution? Did you just take up the piano? Did you just learn a new hobby? Something to show that you're trying new things, that you're trying to grow as a person.

Speaker 2 Because I just think that's universally attractive to people and especially to women. Love it.

Speaker 1 Love it. Talk to me about what's past.
Like I am newly left my corporate nine to five to pursue a new career, scared but excited. What's one thing that you're doing this year, right?

Speaker 1 Like give me something that I can get excited about with you because I'm looking with what are most women looking for? Drive. It's not that you have to be where you need to be.

Speaker 1 When I met my partner, I had nothing that I have right now, but I was driven. I was motivated.
I ate shit.

Speaker 1 I was willing to not sleep and eat to get to where I wanted to be because I was passionate about it. It means the world when we hear, here's the thing, guys.
Start asking questions.

Speaker 1 I hear this day in and day out from women all fucking day. I'm on a date.
The guy didn't ask me any questions. It's me keeping the conversation alive.
It's texting. Good morning.

Speaker 1 Like, stop with the, the, the, the, the filler shit. Show up authentically or don't show up at all.
And it's just, it's about changing the way we interact. Be a better buyer.

Speaker 2 What are some great first date questions that you would love men to start asking?

Speaker 1 Big on the, how'd your last relationship and what did it teach you about yourself? Okay.

Speaker 1 Um, something I really like to ask, like Ryan asked, is like, what's something that you've changed your mind about recently? What prompted the change? Let's see how growth-minded this person is. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Um, something that I've asked before is like, you know, in the middle of a conversation, like, how do you handle conflict?

Speaker 1 Are you somebody that likes to talk it out or are you somebody that needs some space? The one question I want you to avoid, do not, and I say this, do not ask this on a first date.

Speaker 1 What is your attachment style? Stop asking people something that is not fixed. Because if you ask, if I'm on a date and I ask and the guy says, oh, I'm avoided.

Speaker 1 That's not going to make me want to go out. I'm going to be like, oh, nope, nope, nope, fuck this.
I'm out. You're going to avoid.

Speaker 1 It's not fair to the other person because then you're pigeonholing yourself.

Speaker 1 If somebody asks me that, my response would be, why would I answer you on something that's not fixed when I'm trying to grow and heal and become earned secure?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Right.
These are great. These are great green.

Speaker 2 I would categorize these almost as like green flags to give women. A green flag would be these questions you're giving as examples.

Speaker 2 What are some other green flags that make a woman say, wow, this guy is different? Green flag. I'm interested.

Speaker 1 Communication.

Speaker 1 Right. And even if it's something as simple as like, let's say you go on the first date.
If you text after like, hey, I had a really great date with you. I'd love to go out with you again.

Speaker 1 Are you free Friday? Make the fucking plan, dudes. Stop waiting.
The conversation about intentions, stop waiting for the women to bring it up. Stop doing, I get this every day of like,

Speaker 1 I've been seeing on TikTok that a woman should tell me when she wants to be in a relationship and the man should never because it makes you look pathetic.

Speaker 1 And it's like, oh my God, stop waiting for other people to ask you for what it is that you want in life. If you want a relationship, tell this person, hey, I think you're really lovely.

Speaker 1 We've been dating for two months. I'd love to be exclusive and delete my apps.
How do you feel about that?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I think it is so attractive when somebody just says what they want.

Speaker 2 I tell, I have my clients, if they want to, I say, ask her out on the first date, ask her out for the second date if that's what you want.

Speaker 1 Let her know.

Speaker 1 And here's the thing too. Some women might go, yeah, I'll let you know because maybe they're uncomfortable.
Maybe they didn't have a good time and they don't want to reject you in person.

Speaker 1 And that's okay, right? Please don't push, right? I hear this, like I've had guys ask me like, oh, I'd love to hang out again.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, I don't want to tell him to his face, like I'm not interested interested because I'm alone with this guy by my car and I'm scared as a woman that he could do something

Speaker 1 so instead as for my safety what I would say is instead of like and I tell my clients don't give your phone number out if you don't feel you don't know who these strangers are in the internet stop asking women for photos after you match with them if you don't know enough then have a fucking FaceTime women are done being asked for photos right after they meet right after you match if you don't have enough data then do not match with them right right just those little things that like make women very uncomfortable We don't want to feel objectified.

Speaker 1 We don't want to feel like you're only here to see how skinny or hot I am. And like, again, FaceTime me.
If you're unsure, go for a coffee. Make it very low stakes.

Speaker 1 You don't have to spend a shit ton of money on a first date. But I would suggest if after the date, if you didn't want to ask her out on it, text her.
Hey, I had a really lovely time.

Speaker 1 I'd love to get together again. If she doesn't answer, it's okay.
That's not ghosting. That person's just not interested.
They don't owe you anything. You went for a coffee.
You had a nice time.

Speaker 1 If they respond, yay. If they don't, that's okay.
We We don't. And that's why I'm big on stop with the texting before the dates because you build the false sense of intimacy.

Speaker 1 You become on this addiction loop. Your brain starts to wait.
It can't wait. When's the next text? When am I going to hear from them?

Speaker 1 Then you go out on the date and maybe fantasy and reality didn't match. And maybe they thought you, I've had that.
The guy was so funny via text.

Speaker 1 And in person, he was a total dud, did not offer anything, was super awkward. I didn't know how to keep the conversation going.

Speaker 1 Wanted me to split the bill, even though he asked me to order drinks and dinner, even though I told him I was okay. No.
But then asked me on a second date right before we walked off.

Speaker 1 And I literally just looked at him and I went, in what world? I was like, why would I ever want to see you again based on the way you just behaved on this date?

Speaker 2 Yeah. In my fucking room.
I like the idea of,

Speaker 2 I always want to make sure my client's date is comfortable as much as we can control that, which of course we can't, but I want him to do everything he can to make her comfortable.

Speaker 2 At the same time, I don't want him to get caught in the texting loop of trying to chase her down for a second date.

Speaker 2 So a middle ground that I sometimes give them is I say, hey, you know what would be a fun second date? We could go out and do karaoke one night because you like karaoke and I like it.

Speaker 2 So you could float an idea like that and see how she responds to it. And if she's really excited, you might set up the date with her right then and there.

Speaker 2 If she says, oh, let me think about it, then you've shown her some empathy.

Speaker 1 Exactly. It's like, it's okay.
Or sometimes even like, you know what means a lot? When someone's like, hey, my busy, my week is crazy, but do you want to meet for a walk? I'd love to just see you.

Speaker 1 It goes so far for a woman to be like, oh, wow, you're fitting me into your schedule. Even though you're like, I'm swamped this week is back to back.
Can I meet you for a coffee just to see you?

Speaker 1 Can I take you out for a quick drink? Like I've, I dated the celebrity many, many, many, many years ago.

Speaker 1 And that was why I kept seeing him was because even though he was so crazy busy, he would literally text me and be like, can you meet me at it for a drink for an hour? I just want to hug you.

Speaker 1 And we would go, we'd have a quick drink. And then we'd make proper plans to go to dinner and then go out.

Speaker 1 But it meant the world that even though you're swamped and you're doing stuff, you still are making time to try to grow something. Even though you know, I might not see you for two weeks.

Speaker 1 Let me just do something. Or FaceTime, write a quick FaceTime of like, I just wanted to say hi and make sure our connection stays alive.
And I hope that this is comfortable for you.

Speaker 1 Like I said, if women are freaked out, ew, I don't like the nice guy. That's boring.
Let them go, baby. Their nervous system wants the highs and lows.
This ain't for you, honey.

Speaker 1 That's going to just keep you in therapy.

Speaker 2 The last dating advice topic I want to run by you on this episode is about meeting people in real life.

Speaker 2 Because as you said in a recent podcast, something like 70% of couples now meet online.

Speaker 2 But I think so many more people are burnt out, fatigued by dating, online dating, and just being online in general that I think meeting in real life is making a comeback.

Speaker 2 And it's just old school is new again, or it can be. And I'm a big fan of having men meet women in real life.

Speaker 2 What advice do you give your male clients or the men listening to this episode about how to meet a woman in real life, do's and don'ts?

Speaker 1 Oh, absolutely. Now, here's my thing.

Speaker 1 I'm all for it right like you don't want to be digital don't be digital but then i don't want to hear this bullshit of like i'm exhausted by the apps i keep wasting time and i i'm tired of getting rejected it's like what do you think is going to happen in person you now have to put you now have to go face to face with somebody to get rejected right it's we unless you go out like when i moved to new york when i was 19 you went to a bar this is before the apps you went to a bar someone talked to you you started a conversation you passed your phone number and that's how you met we don't do things like that as often that doesn't mean it's out what i am saying is I hear this every day of like, I'm done with the apps.

Speaker 1 I want to meet in person. And it's like, that doesn't mean that the person's going to not automatically be a higher quality or healthier person.
I've met plenty of people in person.

Speaker 2 They're still assholes.

Speaker 1 But my point being is like, just manage your expectations. You want to go? Absolutely.
No, it might not always work. Here are some suggestions.

Speaker 1 Don't ever approach a woman complimenting her on her looks. Don't do it.
Don't do it. I will tell you right now, she's going to instantly be like, I have a boyfriend because it makes us uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 I feel like a piece of meat. What I normally would suggest is like I went, I'll I'll never forget the time I approached a guy at a workout class.

Speaker 1 He was the only woman in an all, it was the only guy in an all-female class. And I saw him standing there and he was so hot.
I was like, I don't want to miss this opportunity.

Speaker 1 He was sweating by the desk. And I just remember walking by and I said, I was like, only straight guy in an all-female class.
And he just turned to me and goes, oh, so you saw me struggling.

Speaker 1 And that was it. We just, the conversation went.
And then I was like, yeah, where, are you new here? I was like, I come here all the time. I haven't seen you here.
And then we just kept going.

Speaker 1 And then we exchanged numbers and then we had a great time. I've gone up to guys at the gym and just been like, oh, I love that tattoo.
Did you get it locally?

Speaker 1 I might not be looking for a new artist, but at least it ends up being, oh, thank you so much. Oh, yeah.
Where are you from? Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Then if they naturally say, yeah, my girlfriend, you could be like, oh, very cool. It was so great to meet you.
It doesn't have to be anything major.

Speaker 1 I've had guys run down to me after the street and go, you're really pretty. And I'm like, okay, that's really uncomfortable.
Right. Like, just, and don't like stop eyeing her and making it.

Speaker 1 It's like, you don't want to make somebody uncomfortable. Comment about something that they're wearing.
Oh, I love those sneakers. Did you get those new?

Speaker 1 Or, oh, our van's comfortable, somebody's wearing a wearable. How do you like the whoop? Do you find it accurate? I never found mine accurate.

Speaker 1 Start the conversation about something light so that they feel, because then you can start to flirt, right? If you see the body language open up, if they start to say, Yeah, do you live around here?

Speaker 1 Yeah, oh, yeah, no, I've been, I moved here recently. I'm single, right? You can then start to interject.
Yeah, no, I'm single. I live alone with my dog.
Oh, do you too? Oh, no way.

Speaker 1 Yeah, where do you like to go? Then you can start to see if maybe you ask them out for a drink or for a cocktail or dinner or whatever.

Speaker 1 Enter in with something that they're wearing, something that they have, maybe something that their dog, I don't care, but just not something physical about them.

Speaker 2 Right. You're right.
It makes a woman feel objectified. At worst.
At best, it's like, okay, fine, now what? But it's just, to me, it just makes you sound like every other guy. Exactly.

Speaker 2 The rare guy who approaches, but the rare guys who do it usually do it like that. They make it about the body.

Speaker 2 I like to tell a guy

Speaker 2 three options, multiple choice. Number one, notice something about her to compliment.
that's not her looks, tattoo, style, something.

Speaker 2 Option number two is ask a question that makes sense in the environment, just like you did with that sweaty guy. Oh, so you're the only straight guy in the class.

Speaker 2 Basically a question slash observation. And the third option is notice something a little bit different.

Speaker 2 I was once at a gym and this woman in my class had this water bottle, but it was shaped like a flask. So it was flask shaped and clear.
And so I observed that and I said something like, oh, hey,

Speaker 2 how's that gin helping helping you get through the downward facing dog? And she laughed. And we had it.
Yeah, we had a great opening conversation.

Speaker 2 So I think question, compliment, or observation as opposed to, you're hot. I had to meet you.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Like if you're at a yoga class, like I suggest men go to yoga classes and go to Pilates classes.
You will have a smorgasburg of usually single women. And I talk about their yoga mat.

Speaker 1 Like, hey, do you like that? Does it, is it grippy enough? It doesn't have to be anything major. Just start the conversation because you can, if they say, yeah, my boyfriend, right?

Speaker 1 If they brought that, you could could just be like, Okay, thank you so much. I just wanted to know about the mat.
It doesn't feel creepy or uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 Try to do that low-hanging fruit and then see if the person starts to respond and if you're driving. If it feels forced, then don't continue.

Speaker 2 In your single past, or hell, maybe it's happened recently. Obviously, you're in a relationship, but maybe it's happened recently.
But can you think of any good approaches men did in your direction?

Speaker 1 Truthfully, not as many. You'd be surprised how few men will approach women.
I would, there would be times where I was like very,

Speaker 1 like, very open, kind of just standing somewhere. And then I would start the conversation with them and they'd be like, oh, I didn't think you were single.

Speaker 1 I was intimidated or I didn't want to see anything. I thought you were going to turn me down.
Yeah. And it's a bummer.

Speaker 1 Like, I've, to this day, actually, as I'm thinking about it, like, I've had some good opening lines on apps, but not really in person, which is the shame.

Speaker 2 I know. It's so rare and it's such a great opportunity to be that one guy who does it well or at least good enough.

Speaker 1 I asked a guy on the train once where he got his shirt so I could get it for my brother's birthday. Like I just said, so he knew it wasn't a partner.
I was like, oh, where'd you get that shirt from?

Speaker 1 And he was like, blah, blah. I said, oh, it's my brother's birthday.
So I was looking for something. And then the guy put his headphones back in.
Okay, not interested. That's okay.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Right? But like, try it. The worst pickup line I ever had was a guy at the gym.
I was doing

Speaker 1 like plank into downward facing or into like high plank, you know, like going from like A-frame up and then going down. And he told me

Speaker 1 that he just came up to me and goes, I just want to let you know, it's really hard to focus on my workout when your ass looks so good while you're going up and down in your little shorts.

Speaker 1 And I just looked at him and I was like, cool. So I looked at it.
I literally said, I said, did you think this was going to work?

Speaker 1 And he was like, I just wanted to let you know, like, you look really great. And I was like, and then I reported him because I was like, that's sexual harassment in the gym.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I don't care what I was wearing.

Speaker 1 You don't have the right to say that.

Speaker 2 Damn, I invented the Your Ass Looks Amazing opener. Damn it.
Why don't I ever get credit for that? Jeez.

Speaker 1 I was saying you're not making royalties.

Speaker 2 Last question about approaching. And then I want to give you the parting words here.
Let me play devil's advocate about something.

Speaker 2 A lot of men who first reach out to me, they say, oh, I don't want to, unless I get the eye contact, unless I get that twirling hair and some kind of nonverbal invitation to go over and talk to a woman, it'd be creepy.

Speaker 2 It'd be weird if I did it. So they're avoiding something they want to do because they're not getting some kind of clear signal and sign.
What do you tell that guy?

Speaker 1 You're afraid of rejection because I'll be honest with you. I could like a guy and I'm terrified to make eye contact.
I am, I, my anxiety, it could be so high.

Speaker 1 I could see the most sexy guy in the room and I'm not looking. I'll maybe look over once and then that's it.
And I'm looking away because I don't want to get rejected.

Speaker 1 I'm also nervous that if I make eye contact with him and he doesn't like me and turns away, that I'm going to be embarrassed. What I would suggest is shoot your fucking shot.

Speaker 1 If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. But that's, that right there sounds like an excuse to avoid being rejected instead of saying, I don't know, right?

Speaker 1 It's one thing if you see a ring on her finger, then I would advise not engaging. But if you see her and she's clearly alone,

Speaker 1 do something low-hanging fruit, low effort, because maybe she becomes a friend. Maybe she comes the person that you wave at when you see them at the gym.

Speaker 1 It doesn't always have to lead to, that's my future wife. But the more we create narratives, because we could say, oh, well, she didn't give me a cue.

Speaker 1 And it's like, well, maybe you didn't look when she did. Maybe you looked down and she was staring at you.
And then you looked and she looked away. Women are equally as nervous and anxious.

Speaker 1 We don't want to get rejected either. probably to a different level than men.
Because what do women hear? Men are the, they're the ones that want to pursue. Men are the ones that want to chase.

Speaker 1 They want to go after something. I don't like that any more than the rest of us, but that's the conditioning that women are told.
I don't like it.

Speaker 1 Maybe we break that by having both people show up authentically and nobody chases anybody.

Speaker 2 Well, I think...

Speaker 2 It comes down to understanding that part of being an authentic man is moving toward what he wants. Love, romance, sex, connection.

Speaker 2 And it comes down to essentially having to change the way you look at women in dating and saying i'm going to start moving toward what i want i'm going to start doing the uncomfortable but necessary thing instead of avoiding the uncomfortable thing and waiting for 17 signs and then i'll go talk to her it's like no shoot your shot that's not That's not where growth happens.

Speaker 1 Growth happens when we do uncomfortable things and then we go, look, I approached this woman. I didn't die.
I didn't get shamed.

Speaker 1 I didn't get the town square is not putting my photo up and making fun of me. I'm okay.
Yes. Then you'll, you have, that's how we build confidence.

Speaker 1 People think that you're confident and then you make moves. That's not how that works.

Speaker 2 I took a client to Whole Foods once to approach women and he was so afraid. And he walked up to a couple women.
The first two went fine, but nothing amazing happened.

Speaker 2 And I said, wait, do you hear that?

Speaker 2 They're not on the loudspeaker saying, aisle seven, a man is approaching women. Please call security.
That didn't happen. And all of a sudden, he felt so much more free.

Speaker 2 And the third woman he talked to, they totally clicked about yogurt and boom, setting up a date.

Speaker 1 Exactly. It's like, it's the same thing.
There's nobody, there's no C, listen, there are Facebook groups. I'm not going to lie.

Speaker 1 And I hate, I hate those Facebook groups, the always eating the same guy groups. I find them so unhealthy.

Speaker 1 But outside of that, like, and just monitor how you fucking handle with people, if you're showing up with grace and respect, then that will show if people screenshots of a text.

Speaker 1 If you're not doing anything, you're not doing anything. But just know, there's no, there's no secret society.
Sure, she might be telling her friends in her group chat.

Speaker 1 I don't give a shit who her three people are that are listening to her. It's not going to change your life.
I promise you.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 2 Sabrina, you've been fantastic. I want to give you the final words.
Final words for the man listening. He's in his head.
He's a bit shy, maybe more introverted. Maybe he's a nerd.

Speaker 2 A lot of engineers listen to the show. A lot of men with very logical, analytical jobs and minds.
Any final piece of dating advice for that shy, nice guy who's listening today?

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, absolutely. That's like my partner.
He's very, he's a tech guy. He's very, very cerebral, right? And what I would say is,

Speaker 1 start putting yourself first and start choosing yourself.

Speaker 1 I understand that you want to come from logic, but there's also another part of us that's our emotions, our body, our sensations, our feelings.

Speaker 1 And it's not a bad thing to start to tap into your emotions. We want a man that can hold space.

Speaker 1 We want a man that can have a boundary, that can say no, that protects himself, but also can co-create and open up with us.

Speaker 1 And if you want a relationship and that's what you deserve, which I know you do, then I need you to believe it.

Speaker 1 And my one thing I will say is please love yourself more than the need to be loved by others.

Speaker 1 Because when you love yourself more than the need to be chosen by a woman or a man, right, whoever that is, then you will always show up for yourself above being chosen by somebody else.

Speaker 1 I don't want you guys to lose yourself trying to be found by some schmo that you meet on the internet.

Speaker 2 Well said.

Speaker 2 How can someone listening to this find out more about you and potentially learn how to work with you or get some of your coaching?

Speaker 1 So you can find me at the Sabrina Zohar Show on Instagram and potentially TikTok if that's still around, Sabrina.Zohar, SabrinaZohar.com. And I'm actually writing my first book this year.

Speaker 2 So I'm going to be scaling off.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 1 I will be taking less one-on-ones, but I have my courses. So there's some courses you could join.
You can listen to the show. We got some free guides.
There's something for everybody. So come on in.

Speaker 1 We'd love to have you. And I appreciate you having me and letting me talk to the audience.

Speaker 2 I got a great title for your book. Just consider this.
Go kick rocks. Love that.
Maybe.

Speaker 2 And my lower back tattoo could be the image if you need a good image for your book to book cover.

Speaker 1 I should just give you half the advance at this point.

Speaker 2 All right. We have a verbal contract on the podcast here.

Speaker 2 Sabrina Zohar, thank you so much for being here. And thank you for listening.
And don't forget, your dream girlfriend, she's out there and she already likes you.

Speaker 2 She just has to meet the real authentic you. So go out there, take courageous, authentic action.
And Carpe Datum sees the date. Until next time.