Sun Prairie Part II | 12

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It's about five o'clock in the evening. Kind of a sleepy January day in Wisconsin.
and it's been overcast all day.

There's snow in the evening. Kind of a sleepy January day in Wisconsin.
It's been overcast all day. There's snow on the ground.
Local reporter Dylan Brogan is driving through the suburbs of Sun Prairie, Wisconsin. When we first gave him a call, he was in the middle of resurrecting his local newspaper, which had gone out of business at the start of the pandemic.
Dylan is in his mid-30s, thick-rimmed glasses, short brown hair, and he combines a reporter's bookishness with intrepid bravery. He agreed to help us make contact with Travis Harper, a former Marine and father of three young daughters, who we believe is in imminent danger.

Target needs to be killed.

He is a white 5'5 male, dark brown, short hair,

blue eyes, weighs 165 pounds,

works at f***ing airport,

cell is f***ing.

He is violent.

It is a little unbelievable that somebody would want to murder someone in this way,

and it's just a little bit unfathomable.

A user by the alias Malik8 has paid more than $5,000

to a Hitman for Hire website on the dark net for Travis's murder.

All right, here goes nothing.

Dylan parks up the road and heads for Travis's door on foot. Hey, my name is Dylan.
Are you Travis? What do you mean? Well, it's kind of a long story, but I'm a journalist. And they want to talk to you about this investigation they been doing about something you haven't done with a doctor.
You're not in trouble at all, but they're hoping to make contact with you. What investigation? Well, I mean, they want to explain it to you, but I'd be happy to give you the details.
Is this a good time? I don't want to interrupt. I can come back.
I'm about to tell you to go away, so you've got to be quick. Travis tells Dylan to spit it out.
And Dylan's carefully planned elevator pitch goes out the window. All right, well, there's this dark website that turned out to be a total scam, right? And basically it's like a hired assassin site.
And you came up as somebody paid money to supposedly to put you

on a hit list but the whole thing was a scam so am i the one getting yeah oh god well i think you're

gonna want to know more about it not really so have a good day are you sure? All right. Dylan gets back in the car and gives me a call.
I did my best to just say, hey, I think you're going to want to know this information. And he's just like, nope.
And he closed the door on me. Wow.
I just, you know, i cannot get into the mindset of that like if someone tells you someone wants to kill you how how do you not want to know what the next sentence is we'd always been worried that breaking this news would cause people to completely freak out but more than not, they simply don't believe us.

But like it or not, and whether he believes it or not,

Travis is in danger.

And we need to convince him and the police of that fact.

But there's one person who can't find out that we're intervening.

The person who was paid to have Travis killed. My name is Karl Miller.
Since 2020, I've been part of a team working in secret to stop people getting murdered. We broke into a scam murder for hire website on the dark web, and that allowed us to see every order being placed,

real money being paid to have real people murdered.

The tally of these targets now stands in the hundreds.

We call it the kill list.

In the last episode, we told you the story of Travis,

the bitter feud with his ex-wife, Kelly,

and how their relationship became tangled in a web of lies and deceit.

But those aren't the only falsehoods in this story. Because sometimes it takes lies to catch an attempted murderer.
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Excludes restaurants. Ben hadn't had a decent night's sleep in a month.
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From Wondery and Novel, I'm Karl Miller.

And this is Kill List. Determined to properly warn him, I reached back out to Travis with a call.
And thanks, I think, to my British accent, I was able to convince him that we weren't trying to scam him or play a practical joke. He agreed to have Dylan come back to his house so we could help him make sense of it all.
It was sort of baffling to me too. So later that afternoon, Dylan is standing in Travis's kitchen, microphone in one hand, laptop in the other, as he tries to set up a video call.
Travis, meanwhile, is sitting at the kitchen table, staring ahead with quiet intensity. Behind him, his partner Liz stands with her arms folded, firing concern questions, her eyes darting between Travis and the young journalist who's just arrived in her kitchen.
So he's on a hit list? Well, yeah, I'll let them explain it, but yeah, it's like this dark website, and somebody paid thousands of dollars.

Does it say when the hit was made?

Yeah.

When was it made?

Oh, you can.

I mean, I want...

No, I can talk.

I mean, I just don't want to mislead you in any way, because they have it all in front of them, right?

And it was in December. It was recently, and they said it was super urgent.
Oh, yeah. This isn't funny, guys.
This is not funny. It's not funny.
I mean, I wish it was a joke, but it's not. You said that this was a joke.
For the record, I didn't do the hit. I know that we fought this week, but I didn't do it.
Can you please? Yes. Thank you.
Hey, Carl. Hi there, everyone.
There's no kind of easy way of saying this, really, but your name and information, including your address, and we believe perhaps your car... Once I explained to Travis about the kill order, there's only one suspect he has in mind.
I got a crazy ex-wife who was constantly and consistently doing stuff. And then I was looking through my messages on December 3rd and we got in an argument about going back to court around that same time frame.
So that makes sense. I mean, if I was a betting man,

I would bet definitely that would be her.

Is this consistent with a kind of violent profile of her behavior?

She's not... she's unstable,

and anybody unstable can be violent.

She's gotten worse and worse throughout the years.

And she does do shady things,

and, I mean, that's why we got a divorce.

How long have you felt that she was actually really capable of actually killing you not just angry with you but really that I think it was about a year ago sometime in the summertime I was like I think she's probably going to end up trying to kill me. It was right when we started back in court again and it was getting really bad.
Well when I first met first met you, you said that to me too. You said if I were missing, it was Kathleen.
One of the concerns is that this might not be the only kind of route that she's pursuing to have you hurt. Oh, it's definitely not the only route that she's pursuing to have me hurt.
So that's why we're probably going to have to get some sort of law enforcement agency involved.

The evening is deepening in Wisconsin,

and I begin to sense that both Travis and Liz,

in different ways, are feeling increasingly unsafe.

Liz is standing over by the window and begins to part the blinds and peer into the darkness outside.

Then, as Travis and I continue to talk, she quietly leaves the room and calls the police. A short while later, there's a knock at the door.
So the police are here. What do you want to do now, guys? My God.
I'm sorry, Travis. I'm so sorry to have to give you all this news.
No, no. You guys are doing a great favour and a great justice for giving all the news.
The police are, they tell me, responding to reports of a suspicious person, which it takes me a moment to work out must be either me or Dylan. At first, the cops are sceptical of what Travis and Liz are telling them.
It does seem like hair outlandish, but I mean, it seems like there's a bit of a history there, so… All right, put the case number… We want to take this as seriously as possible. Well, I would hope you guys would.
Oh, yeah, of course. The lead officer looks about 18 years old.
He tells Dylan he's a trainee. And when he realizes we're recording, he turns on his body camera.
It seems like our involvement is making the police officers suspicious. The one thing that I was just curious about is just that they came to you instead of contacting the police.
Right, and you've been asking that. That was the part that kind of like gave me a little bit of a pause.
Right, but I think as we can see now that this is actually legit. Sure.
And there's a hit out on him. We'll double check this as best as we can.
The police officer makes a strange offer. Travis says he's worried about communicating with Kelly, who he can only talk to through a messaging app mandated by the family court.
In response, the officer offers to call Kelly himself and tell her not to speak to Travis, at which point Liz puts her foot down. I don't know if that's a good idea.
I won't tell her about anything about this case, though. Right, I understand that, but I don't think you should call her until tomorrow morning because, honestly, we're worried that she's going to do something to those girls.
In the days leading up to this, I'd contemplated not one, but two different, but equally horrible outcomes. Travis might be killed if we didn't intervene,

but our intervention could also

have terrible consequences

if we didn't tread extremely carefully.

It's clear that Travis and Kelly

had been trapped in a cycle of conflict

for years.

And now, Travis fears that things could be about to get so much worse.

I get more worried that Kelly's going to drown the kids and kill the children more than I've

ever been worried about her trying to kill me. That keeps me up at night.
That one scares the

shit out of me. You know, if she can't have them, no one can.
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I pulled into my garage, and as I'm getting out of the truck and the garage door's closing, that's when I realized if someone was going to kill me, going into the garage now became a life-or-death situation. In the days that follow our conversation, Travis gets paranoid.
He begins to obsess about where, when, and how he could be murdered. Every time I came in the garage door, I rounded the corner out of my pickup truck as fast as I could.
I didn't even turn the truck off, put it in park, and came out ready to fight. It was terrifying going in the garage.
Because you got to pull it in the garage fast, you got to get out of your car fast, and you got to freaking get a weapon of some sort ready to fight. So I bought a pocket knife and I need to get a gun now.

Like, now, now.

As it starts snowing, Travis's paranoia becomes almost constant.

So I'm shoveling snow.

Every time a car drives by and we live on a pretty major street,

I'd go back in the garage.

Shovel, shovel, shovel, cart, back in the garage. Shovel, shovel, shovel, cart, back in the garage.

Shovel, shovel, shovel, cart, back up.

I've never been a fast shoveler, but that slowed me down.

Liz was in tears one day about it, because she kind of realized it too.

Travis is having to live with the idea of someone proactively trying to kill him all the time.

This threat that he's living under has smothered his entire life. He's locked the windows and generally tries to make the house as difficult to break into as possible.
Everything he does is shaped by the fear that he's about to be killed. We almost got our zombie action program going on except we don't have the plywood on the freaking windows.
The windows are closed at night and, you know, that kind of sucks. I'd like to have them open because I like to watch the Cardinals.
Travis is confronting the really big things, his own mortality, the sheer fragility of the human body, but also small things like not being able to watch the birds play outside his window. Knowing you're on the kill list inflicts a terrible cost.
It drains the colour out of your life. And when that colour has drained away, how do you add it back? We could tell Travis he's on the kill list, but we can't take him off it.
Only the police can do that.

And right now, Travis and Liz don't have much confidence.

The local Sun Prairie police officers who took the call were young.

They didn't seem to take the call particularly seriously.

Before they left, they told Travis that they thought we might be trying to scam him.

And Travis and Liz have had many dealings with the Sun Prairie Police already throughout Travis's bitter feud with Kelly, and things haven't gone well. There's a risk the kill order just looks like another allegation being thrown around.
Fortunately, Liz is as determined to protect Travis as Malik 8 is to kill him. After our conversation, Liz begins to work her own contacts in law enforcement.
And they do not end with the local police department at Sun Prairie. One of the people that Liz phones is none other than a special agent at the FBI.

So within days of first meeting Travis, we're on the phone to FBI special agent Brian Baker.

So I guess where I want to start is just kind of a little bit of,

just make sure that you guys aren't recording this conversation. Is that correct?

At Brian's request, we stopped recording. We spent about an hour on Zoom with him, explaining to him how the site works, the messages that we have, and the technical Bitcoin information, all of which we then sent to him.
Unlike the local cops, it was clear that Brian was taking things seriously.

He knows a lot about Bitcoin, the darknet, and cybercrime. His questions are specific, they're purposeful.
As the call goes on, I feel a rising confidence that Brian is going to actually competently and proactively investigate Kelly

Travis and Liz were reassured too, though still desperately worried about what might happen. Everyone's like, hey, we got this.
Don't worry too much. Don't worry too much.
But it feels like an imminent threat. Like there's something serious going on.
There's an imminent danger. But everyone that knows about it's like, Hey dude, we're good.
We're good. Don't panic too much.
Yeah. Everything's good.
We're doing our best. You know, the more I hear it, the more I want to panic.
I expect one of three things to happen. Um, one, they say there's no evidence and we'll just keep an eye out.
Uh, the second that they're going to say that they have evidence, a motive, stuff like that, and they're going to take her in for an interview where she would probably, after about an hour, admit to everything. And then the third one is I get shot in the stomach and die in the snow.
What Travis doesn't know is that a major investigation is now underway. FBI agents begin to secretly track and follow Kelly's movements.
And pretty soon, Kelly's going to realise that someone is on her tail.

15 miles away from Sun Prairie, at her home in the nearby city of Columbus,

Kelly is starting to notice strange things are going on.

Like a car that seems to be following her around, lurking on the road outside her house.

When she goes to run errands,

the car is there again. Kelly takes a picture of it on her phone.
On the drive home, she sees the car following her again. Freaked out, she takes an unexpected turn off the road through some nearby farmlands.
She calls the police, fearing she could be in danger. A few days later, on February 4th, Officer Cheryl Patty gives Kelly a call.
She says she wants to talk to Kelly at the station about the suspicious cars she's been seeing. When Kelly arrives at the police station the next day, she's ushered into a small, cramped, windowless room to find not just Officer Patty, but next to her, FBI Special Agent Brian Baker.
Kelly sits down at the end of a long rectangular table, Officer Patty to her left, Special Agent Baker to her right. The interview starts friendly enough.
It begins with a subject that would have been familiar to Kelly, the many dozens of child abuse allegations that she's made against Travis. A judge had dismissed those allegations outright, but whilst Kelly might feel that her claims had gone unheard, Officer Patty and Agent

Baker tell her they want to help. They ask her to go over the story all over again.

Kelly doesn't know it, but she's just walked into a trap.

That very moment, 12 FBI agents are executing a search warrant on her home.

Officer Patty and Agent Baker listen patiently and sympathetically

until 40 minutes later, Brian Baker steps into the conversation.

We know what Baker says because we have a partial transcript of this interview. His words are read by an actor.
I work at a ton of different things. So when Cheryl brought this to me, I thought something doesn't add up.
There's something weird going on here. And then I read through your whole file.
And, well, I'm like, no one's listening to you. You're desperately trying to protect your kids and you're doing whatever you can and you're not being heard.
So with my experience, I just wanted to make sure you were safe and your family is safe. So I reached out to FBI, not only in my area, but across the country and then internationally.
And I'm able to keyword search on the internet to see if any threats show up, which I think is important because you're seeing cars and weird things happening. At this point, Agent Baker's whole tone changes.
What started as a quiet, sympathetic concern is now becoming gravely serious. He tells Kelly he's concerned for her and her children's safety because someone has placed a hit on the dark web against a member of her family.
The information I found, there is a threat against your family. And with this particular website that I found it on and talking to the experts, it's a bad site.
there are some bad people behind this site and sometimes even the people that use these sites become victims because the people that run these sites have technologies to track people so my goal here today is to protect you and protect your kids so if you can remember anything I need your help because I need to find out who's on the other end of this site. Baker slides a document over to Kelly across the table.
It's the kill order we gave him. The FBI is trying to use the order they suspect Kelly has made to flush her out under the guise of trying to protect her.
Kelly reads through the messages. And then Agent Baker pulls the rug out from under her.
He tells Kelly that he's tracked down the person behind the messages. He's got IP addresses and information from the Bitcoin wallet that made the payment for the hit.
We know it's you. I need you to be honest with me so that I can protect everyone.
So I can protect you. Kelly takes a deep breath and confesses to everything.
She admits going onto the site and trying to order multiple hitmen. She says that she'd already been scammed on one site, then went on to take out a hit on another.
She persevered, she says, because she felt like no one was listening to her and her allegations against Travis. She claims she was desperate.
At which point,

the whole tone of the interview changes.

Up until now,

the police haven't told Kelly that she's under arrest.

They haven't read her her rights

or advised her to speak to a lawyer.

Instead,

they've carefully created a pretense

that they are there to protect her

and her children.

Agent Baker leaves the room and returns with two other agents. They tell Kelly that she's under arrest and that she has a right to an attorney.
Kelly tries to interject, but Brian Baker shuts her down. She's placed in handcuffs and led away.

At 24, I lost my narrative or rather it was stolen from me and the Monica Lewinsky that my friends and family knew was usurped by false narratives callous jokes and politics I would define reclaiming as to take back what was yours something Something you possess is lost or stolen, and ultimately you triumph in finding it again. So I think listeners can expect

me to be chatting with folks, both recognizable and unrecognizable names, about the way that

people have navigated roads to triumph. My hope is that people will finish an episode of reclaiming

and feel like they filled their tank up. They connected with that people will finish an episode of Reclaiming and feel like

they filled their tank up. They connected with the people that I'm talking to and leave with

maybe some nuggets that help them feel a little more hopeful. Follow Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky

on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Reclaiming early

and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Kelly's mugshot is the first time I see what she looks like.
A middle-aged suburban housewife in a prison uniform. She has strawberry blonde hair in a loose braid just beginning to come apart on the right side.
Light blue eyes stare directly, almost defiantly, into the camera. Based on everything we know about her, it's clear that Kelly has a long track record of lying.
But it seems like a long way to go from telling white lies to big dangerous ones to them paying to have her ex-husband murdered. When we dug deeper into Kelly's past, we found that Travis was not her first victim.
Two Busy Moms founded MomToMommy.com to build a community of doctors, retailers and baby product manufacturers who want to be a part of a trusted network of resources available to moms across the nation. And Mom to Mommy founders Kelly Harper and Elaine Iwiki join us with the details.
Great to have you both. Thank you for having us.
It's great to be here. In 2012, Kelly appeared on Fox News New Mexico.
She's beaming at the presenters, sat next to her business partner, Elaine Iwicki. Their pitch is that they're your typical all-American mums, and they certainly look the part.
They've just founded an online business together, Mum to Mummy. Kelly lays out the details.
We have an online directory for physicians, dentists, and chiropractors. And then there's an online forum also where parents can share advice, ups and downs from infant all the way up to high school.
Like my daughter's trying to get into college, like what's some suggestions, things like that. And then we have free online boutique shopping and it will always be free for all parents.
That's really cool. I love that part.
Kelly keeps smiling as she reels off her sales pitch but her tightly clasped hands in her lap betray her nerves. The whole thing feels hammy and staged in the way that only American daytime television can be.
Great information. Thank you both so much.
Thank you. We enjoyed being here.
We love having you.

Four months later, Kelly's business relationship with Elaine would come to an acrimonious end. Elaine's lawyers sent Kelly a letter alleging that Kelly had defrauded one of the company's corporate sponsors out of $27,500.
As part of that alleged fraud, the letter claims that Kelly told Elaine that she had managed to secure a spot for them on Good Morning America, the famous national breakfast show on ABC. But when the two women turned up at the TV studio in New York, having paid for flights and hotels, they were told there was no record of them ever being invited onto the show and were escorted out of the building by security.
The letter also accuses Kelly of hiding her criminal past from Elaine. It's an intriguing detail.
Remember how Travis told us that he was concerned Kelly was getting involved in fraud during their marriage? Well, it turns out that in 2005, back when Travis was a Marine stationed in Yuma, Arizona, Kelly was working as an administrator at a bone and joint clinic. She was accused then of stealing $4,500 from the company, and she pled guilty to a felony, and Travis was completely oblivious.
And much later, after they got divorced, Kelly got in trouble again. This time, she managed to end up in possession of a forged mortgage approval letter from the Bank of Sun Prairie for a $200,000 loan.

Kelly didn't face any criminal charges for the events surrounding the forged mortgage letter.

And as far as we know, she didn't face any criminal consequences for the allegations laid at her by her former business partner Elaine either.

But now she is in handcuffs,

accused of trying to have Travis murdered.

It feels like all the lines she's told

might be about to finally catch up with her.

But she's not the only one who's been twisting the truth.

In the weeks that follow her arrest, Kelly gets a lawyer and begins to work on her defence. The lawyer pulls together a document arguing that Kelly's confession should be suppressed and not used as evidence against her.
Her lawyer argues that the lies the police told her about the safety of her family make her confession inadmissible. They also say that Kelly's Miranda rights were violated and that she should have been advised at the start of the interview that she had the right to an attorney.
So is there a risk here then, that the FBI's tactics create a genuine legal vulnerability? If Kelly's confession becomes inadmissible, there is a danger the case against her could collapse. Kelly's lawyer couldn't speak to us, but he put us in touch with a colleague of his, criminal defense attorney Jessa Nicholson Gatz, who's seen the documents that were prepared in Kelly's defense.
And as a criminal defense lawyer, she's experienced in the kind of tactics the police can use to draw out a confession. So, first of all, you have to start with the understanding that police are allowed to lie to suspects.
So they're allowed to use any type of deceptive tactics that they think will advance an interrogation. You know, your typical deceptive police tactic is to exaggerate the strength of the evidence against them.
Here, they did something really different. Here, they treated her like she was a victim, not a suspect.
So they talked to her about having concerns for her safety. They told her that she needed to be cooperative and tell them everything because that was the only way that she could protect her children.
I'm a mother of two young children, so I had an emotional reaction to the particular manipulation tactic. I think that that was probably very effective.
And on the one hand, like, I have a ton of empathy for what that must have felt like for Kelly Harper. On the other hand, I've seen her reaction to that.
And I think she's been very vocal. Like, I never would have said any of this if I had known that you were going to use it against me.
And I'm kind of like, well, yeah, that's what happens, though. You know, I mean, pretty much everybody says after the fact, well, I really wish I hadn't confessed to crimes.
I mean, that's usually not helpful to somebody's own self-interest. Jessa also says that she thinks it's fair to argue that Kelly should have had her Miranda rights read to her at the beginning of the interview.
In my view, when you take someone to the police station, put them in a locked room, and are asking them questions about a case that they're the suspect in, I think they should be mirandized. They should be read the warning and given the opportunity to consult with counsel.
These are the sorts of things that any defense lawyer would jump onto to try and help their client. None of this was tested in court, however.
Sometimes lawyers negotiate a better sentence

in exchange for not litigating an issue.

And it's my understanding that that's what ultimately happened here.

In return for pleading guilty, Kelly gets a six-year sentence.

And Travis still gets to have his day in court.

At Kelly's sentencing, he comes face-to-face

with the woman who tried to have him killed.

At first it was terrifying, like scary, but I wanted to let her know how it affected the children

and how she's always claiming that I'm the abusive one and I'm emotionally abusive and physically abusive and terrible.

I'm a terrible father.

But her actions have destroyed those kids and they had to start a whole new life because of it. She didn't make eye contact at me at all.
She just stared straight down at her paper the entire time I talked. Several times I pointed at her and looked her right in the eye.
I was debating on whether or not I was going to name call at all. I decided that I wasn't going to do it, and then at the very end, you know, it needed to be said, she's not a good person, she's a thing of nightmares.
She's incapable of human emotion, in my opinion. We've seen no evidence that Kelly was given a psychological evaluation, and a defense never claimed that she was suffering from any mental health condition that might explain or mitigate her behavior.
Instead, here's what she had to say for herself. Her words are read by an actor.
I was going through a tumultuous custody battle. He'd abused our children emotionally and physically for years.
I'd reported it to the police, guardian ad litems. There had been many court cases, CPS reports, and no one will listen or do anything to stop the abuse and help my children.
It was my divine right as a mother to protect my children and help them from suffering. I was desperate and in a very dark place, and went on the dark web to find someone to kill.
I'm deeply and sincerely sorry for my action. I have to stress that a judge ruled there was never any evidence to support Kelly's claims of abuse, despite extensive investigations by the authorities.
And perhaps it was this, coupled with Kelly's long history of fraud, deceit and and lies that meant the judge was unable to take any of Kelly's explanations at face value he told her it's hard to know your underlying motivations and you've certainly been adamant about your own there's an awful lot in the record that creates problems with that but I don't have the details to make sense of any of it. Kelly has been working relentlessly ever since she was convicted to try and get released.
She submitted appeal after appeal and motion after motion to try and get compassionate release. She sacked her attorney.
She's now representing herself, writing long, angry messages to the judge responsible for hearing her appeals.

Part of her strategy also seems to be to attack me and my team.

She's variously claimed that we have offered her a book deal.

We haven't.

And that the Hitman for Hire website was set up by us

to get stories and to make money.

It wasn't. Travis, meanwhile, has uprooted his family.
He's sold the house and moved them to a new location in a remote area. Travis says his kids were sad to leave their old home in Sun Prairie.
But he's glad to finally have full custody of the three daughters he shares with Kelly. Along with Liz's four children, the family are trying to move on with their lives.
But as Kelly has pushed to be released, it feels like this story could still yet have another sinister twist in it. still feel that sooner or later it's going to be a violent confrontation there's nothing in her that will ever give up she's like the terminator she will not stop she will not quit she will not stop until you are dead you know if if she wants something you better hope to god she gets it i mean she's sitting in, she has nothing to do, and she's sitting in there day after day.
You think she isn't plotting something else? The person that put her in jail is sitting right here, and now he's got her kids. You know what I'm saying? In her mind, he's got her kids.
He took away her life. He took away whatever.
She's not going to let it go. No, she's plotting right now.
There's no part of you, though, that thinks that Kelly maybe after all this will change? No. No, I think jail has got her not in a position of punishment, but in a position of stewing.
I mean, she said in court, and I quote, my divine right as a mother. So my death isn't just something that she needs to do because of revenge.
My death to her is divine. And so, no, I don't think she's going to stop.
I think I got five years left to live, to be honest with you. I'm going to enjoy the heck out of it.
In the years that have followed, Travis and Liz have been nervously waiting to see when Kelly might get released. And in May 2024, those fears were realised.
Kelly was released early from prison, having served three years of her six-year sentence. She continues to maintain that she is a victim of both Travis and the criminal justice system.
These cases have taught me that it might be impossible to ever really feel completely satisfied. Because they don't end.
The lives of all the people involved just continue. And you never really know whether the remorse is real, whether the motivations have changed, whether the people have changed.

What we're doing doesn't make someone stop wanting to kill someone else.

It just shows them the way they were trying to do it doesn't work.

And in these circumstances, how can a victim like Travis ever truly move on? Coming up on Kill List, we're in the vast and empty landscape of the Utah countryside, where a devoutly religious father of 16 children is suspected of trying to murder a couple on the other side of the Utah countryside, where a devoutly religious father of 16 children

is suspected of trying to murder a couple

on the other side of the country.

So what I need you to do for me

is help me understand what got you to that point.

What got you to the point where you felt like you needed

to have them killed?

Give me a second.

Take your time. to have them killed.
Yes, I can take it.

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Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wandery.com. From Wandery and Novel, this is Kill List.
Kill List is hosted by me, Carmilla. The reporter for this episode is Dylan Brogan, and it was produced and written by our series producer, Tom Wright.
Kill List is also produced by Caroline Thornham and Jake Otayevich, with additional production by Anna Sinfield. Our assistant producer is Amalia Saltland.
And our researchers are Megan Oyinka and Lena Chang. Additional research from Chris Montero.
For Wondery, our senior producer is Mandy Gorenstein. Fact-checking by Fendal Fulton.
Our managing producers are Cherie Houston, Sarah Tobin, and Charlotte Wolfe for Novel. Sarah Mathes is our managing producer, and Callum Plews is our senior managing producer for Wondery.
Original music by Skylar Gerdman and Martin Linnebel. supervision by Nicholas Alexander, Max O'Brien and Caroline Thornham

Sound design and mixing by Daniel Kempson

For novel, Willard Foxton is creative director of development

Our executive producers are Sean Glynn, Max O'Brien and Craig Strachan for novel

Executive producers for Wondery are Marshall Louis and Erin O'Flaherty. In the 1950s, America was glued to its television screens, watching contestants battle it out for big money on quiz shows like 21 and the $64,000 question.
But behind the scenes, producers were feeding answers to the most popular contestants to keep audiences hooked. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show American Scandal.
We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history.
Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, quiz shows dominate 1950s TV until a disgruntled contestant blows the whistle and reveals that the shows are rigged.

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