140: Tuvalu's lost star

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What role did preserved fish have in the creation of the New York Stock Exchange? The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.

Welcome to the show, where we ask some very difficult questions to some lovely guests.

Sorry,

we ask some lovely questions to some very difficult guests. The answer is to defy!

You'll saw that one coming a mile off. Yeah.

Today, we welcome back the gang from the comedy science podcast, Let's Learn Everything. And at this point, my script simply says, guest chats, good luck.

Caroline, how have you been doing lately? What's up?

So good. Thanks.
I just, I feel like that good luck is specifically towards Tom Scott. Like myself.
Absolutely. Good luck.
Deep breaths. It's going to be okay.
I can get through this.

It's not going to be okay, Tom Scott.

Hey, Caroline Roper, aren't you glad we host a podcast with me, Tom Lum, called Let's Learn Everything? I sure am Tom Lum. Hey, Ella Hubber, aren't you glad?

What are some of your favorite topics, Ella Hubber, also host of the podcast?

Some of my favorite topics that we've done on the podcast are serious science topics like whale fall ecology and epigenetics, but we also do miscellaneous topics like Lego and carrot propaganda.

You had a list. You had a list ready.

Oh, wait, Tom Scott, you're here. We were just having a wonderful conversation between friends.

Well, very best of luck to all three of you on the show today, and very best of luck to me and the producer.

You are such regular guests that I do have a custom headphone setting for when you're on the show. It's marked quiet, medium, loud, and Tom Lum laughing at a joke.
So

I did have one last bit I wanted to say, which is that I know now that congrats that the video, this is all full video now for the podcast. Yes.

And so I thought it'd be really cool to do some like video exclusive stuff in the intro. So I thought I would do a quick backflip really quick if you guys want to see that.
Yeah, go for it.

Yeah.

Oh, no.

Is he actually going to? Oh, wow. Wow.
Yeah.

Yeah. Two somersaults there.
That's

your gymnastic abilities, Tom. Oh, God.
Wow.

You've all brought your own shtick, and I'm worried.

It's been a while.

Very best of luck to all of you. We will turn the brain power up to 11 as well as the volume and tackle question one.
Thank you to Carson Lowe for this question.

Until 2021, why didn't Apple's weather app display 69 degrees? I'll say that again. Until 2021, why didn't Apple's weather app display 69 degrees?

Some sort of in-app moderation. Who's going to break first?

I don't think, I think we should ignore it ignore it guys

we're stronger than this really

are we

are you sure

because because i'm not

uh i'm gonna ask the year again uh because until 2021 so recently that's yeah that's really recent yeah

were they owned by uh a very like conservative uh uh like uh group that was like no my first clue i've got here before we take this podcast off the rails entirely entirely is that it wasn't blocked by Apple for any prudish reasons.

It wasn't because it's a funny number. Oh,

boo.

The funniest of numbers. Okay, is it something to do with

the six and nine?

Yeah, they look similar. I mean, they do look similar, but they're the wrong way, they're a different way around, so they should be distinguishable from one another.

Something in the UI, maybe, of the way they're displayed. Oh, wait, I know the answer to this, actually.
Oh, I just realized.

Oh, okay. The power of the comedy of 69 fully made me forget.
But once we dug through that well enough, I was like, oh, wait, no, I do actually know the answer to this. Then go for it.
Go for it.

Let's have the first question fall quickly with the proviso that if you're confidently wrong, you're going to get it in the neck from everyone else here.

In all that windup, I was like, what dumb joke could I say instead? So I believe it is the fact that

the actual data was stored in Celsius and then converted on the front end to Fahrenheit.

And as a result, maybe there's like some decimal issue too, but there was no conversion that would result in the number 69 because it would just like fall on either side when you convert it from Celsius to Fahrenheit.

Yep, spot on.

The data being fed to the app was in whole degrees Celsius. The app then converted it to Fahrenheit.
20 Celsius is exactly 68 Fahrenheit. And 21 Celsius rounds up to 70.

So 69 Fahrenheit was never shown. And what can I say? What better argument for Fahrenheit as a system than the fact that you get to use that wonderful, wonderful number and Celsius?

You don't get to as often. The same thing happened with 65 and 67.
But the question writers picked that number for some reason. Couldn't possibly tell you.
I don't know why.

Also, and if you're creative enough, 65 and 67, those can also be useful numbers.

If you're creative enough.

We will go to our first guest question then, Tom. This question was sent in by Fernando S.
Developers of the World War II multiplayer game Wolfenstein Enemy Territory noticed a problem.

Despite their best efforts, players on the Allied side seemed to have a clear advantage in online matches. They fixed the issue without changing a single line of code.
How? I'll say that again.

Developers of the World War II multiplayer game Wolfenstein Enemy Territory noticed a problem. Despite their best efforts, players on the Allied side seem to have a clear advantage in online matches.

They fixed the issue without changing a single line of code. How? People who want to play Nazis are worse at video games.

I wish that was the answer.

Very good.

If it's not code, maybe it's cosmetic, like skins for the

Allied versus the Axis. Is that the other one? God, my history's so bad.

And the Axis, Axis would be the Axis.

Yeah, they had like bright, the Axis had like bright pink, you know, uniforms that showed them up on the map. It's like the red coats fighting in the American Civil War.

You're wearing bright red coats, folks.

You guys are

in the ballpark. You're thinking in the good headspace of this isn't, yeah, okay, like the question says it doesn't have to do with code

I think if you keep digging at some of the differences that could have been happening because you are right that like the axis the and the way these games work is like one side will have like a cult and then the the similar the other side will have like the luger so there's like counterparts to these weapons on both sides is it cosmetic then is it something to do with the way because is it um like multiplayer are there different

okay so is it something something to do with like

how people decide which side they're going to go on to?

Like anything like that?

No, and I'll say for, I don't know if this was how it was implemented, but like for the sake of the question, it could be one of those games where you just are randomly assigned to assigned to something for multiplayer reasons.

This is where I show how old my

video game multiplayer knowledge is. Like the fact that the company can track win rate by

like which side you're on kind of astonished me because in my head, like

this is 15, 20 years ago, like servers like privately run by groups and companies.

You just chose a server and connected to it, and that was what you were playing on. The idea that a company can track that sort of analytics of every gameplay is actually a little bit creepy.

I believe this might have been during beta tests specifically. Okay, okay.
Okay, but I don't think that

level of this could happen in the early days of video game development. This could also just as likely happen in later days.

I will say, I'll give a thing that I think some of you might have thought of, but just to reinforce clearly that

while there were like counterparts to the weapons, functionally in the game, they were identical. They did the same amount of damage.
Okay.

But despite that, yeah, the allied side seemed to have an advantage and they seemed to be more daring and confident

in their gameplay. And I will say that

their advantage was measurable.

It's how they described it as feeling like they have an advantage. And when they looked at the logs, they did have an advantage.

Is it just because like historically the Allies won, so they thought that they were going to win?

They're on the right side of history. You know what? They are more daring.
The Axis side was like, this isn't right. Hold on.

Is it something to do with the naming conventions of their weapons? Like the allied ones had like mega gun versus just normal gun. Ella, you're...

It's that same kind of thing, but it's not the naming. But it is that sort of like ethos of like one gun is seems like the super one and one doesn't.
Did they design differently?

Accidentally, like one of the guns historically had sights on it and the other didn't. So that is actually a gameplay advantage,

even though it's just like a few pixels difference.

People thought they had a better aim, so they were more confident.

You're really close in terms of

the confidence and thinking in that headspace, but it was not even a change in pixels. And remember, and there's no change in the code that is needed to fix this.

It's not a change in pixels, but it is something else in games. Something that is often forgotten about in games, I'll say that.
Could it be like the description of the weapons or something like that?

Like one description says, this will always hit the target, and then another one for the equivalent weapon doesn't say that. It's the name.

One of them is just heroes rifle, and the other is terrible gun for terrible people.

It's not a name. And it's very interesting that you guys haven't said this.
I think this is

indicative of sort of what we think about goes into games. So is it to do with the weapon or is it to do with like clothing? It's to do with the weapon, I'd say.
Yeah.

But it's not to do with pixels. It's not anything in the code.
It's not the description. So is it how the weapon is presented? That's pixels.

If you've played a game like this, what's one of the things that makes it feel like satisfying? Oh, is it the sound? The sounds the gun made. Oh,

so Ella, what could be happening?

They were just louder. They were just louder, but like gun sounds coming from the allied forces.
Yes. Right, but that won't just affect your headphones and what you're hearing.

It'll affect how far away the enemy can hear you shooting.

No. No.

No. Okay.

It's just psychological? It was purely psychological. So it the American equivalent of this gun had a deeper, more bassy sound.
And it was described by players as feeling more

slower but stronger, despite the stats. Again, the stats being fully identical in the code.
It's just the WAV file that was being played for them. Although, not to call it just the WAV file,

I think this is such an interesting

lesson in game design that, like, and there's in the sources for this, there's a wonderful

video from People Make Games who I love that talked about this. And they talked to the developers of this game.

But yeah, like it gave the players a big, a more sense of confidence when using them and they played better.

Wow.

Yeah,

it's all part of the game, baby. It's not just the code.
The game is everything in the game.

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Thank you to Bruce in Cornwall for this next question. Marine AFC is a football team based in the suburbs of Liverpool.
One side of their ground is a simple fence with numbers on it that don't change.

What are the numbers for? And one more time, Marine AFC is a football team based in the suburbs of Liverpool. One side of their ground is a simple fence with numbers on it that don't change.

What are the numbers numbers for? We've had an Liverpool FC, I think this is marine FC, but we've had one of these

Roman numerals on L V I or whatever. This is marine AFC.
This is another club in Liverpool. The tricky thing about this is like there's plenty of reasons to just have numbers that aren't interesting.

It's like it could be an advert there.

It could be the year it was founded. Like there's just lots of numbers, but there's something here that obviously it makes it sound like it's it's something

something it's almost like we're on lateral.

Oh, wait, do you listen to lateral, Ella? It's a good show. It occurs to me that Tomlin may not know how, like, English football works with its leagues and everything like that.

And it's kind of second nature if you're over here. Gotcha.
We have more than one division. Yeah.
I'll say I have, hey, I listened to Dear Hank and John. I know there's tiers of English football.

I know there's

first, second, third, fourth. I know AFC Humboldton is one of them.

One of the tiers. I mean, it goes from like Premier League, and then there's a few, then it starts to go into like the numbered leagues.
I only know this because of Wrexham.

Yeah, Premier League Championship, first and second division. And then it sort of starts splitting into what they call the pyramid.

And there are a lot of levels this pyramid. I think it's somewhere in the teens.
And one of the joys of that system is that,

in theory, a team that is way down at the bottom, that is just a dozen people kicking the ball about.

If they're in this system, in theory, over the years, they can get promotion, promotion, and promotion, end up in the top flight. I'm also wondering

if the name of the football team has something to do with the answer. Like, why is it called marine? They're all marine animals player.
Because Liverpool's on the water, probably.

Yeah, I was thinking marina, which made me think, like, is it something to do with boats in some way or something like that?

The reason I mentioned the pyramid is just that this is a very small football club. If you are imagining a colossal stadium,

you have the wrong image in your head. So, one thought I had with leagues was like, is this

like this is the marker of what league the team is in presently? And they like hang something on the fence for what they're on presently.

And when they upgrade, they like move the move it over to the next post or something. But they've, yeah, but the numbers have never changed.
So they've just never left the league they're in.

It's like they put the wreath around the current league they're on and then they move it on to the next league. Oh, fan, and on and on and on.

But I suppose not because when you say fence, like is this truly like a little a little garden fence along the side of it, or like a little metal fence? That's a great point.

It's not really a big fence, uh, they are in the sixth tier in the National League North. So that I mean, it's just a foot, it's just a normal football ground,

It's got some spaces for spectators, but

it's not a big stadium.

Could it be the scorer? I feel like that's like an obvious first guess. It's like scorer.
Always

the same.

Yeah, yeah. Well, they try to get to that number.
And so they don't have to spend money on

the scoreboard.

The numbers are referred to only occasionally. But they're referred to.

They are. Huh.

Time left in the game is the only other numbers I'm thinking of. But once again, does not make sense for that.

Tracking penalty kicks. Capacity of the grounds.
Ooh, yeah.

They sure are numbers and they sure are in a sequence. Oh, oh, oh,

interesting. Is it tracking the points?

The score? And then they do the wreath thing.

You'd be referring to that a lot more than this. That's true.
That's a good point. I don't know.
In football, the lowest score calheo is low score.

This is giving me flashbacks to when we were on, we did Escape this pod not too, too long ago, and we were stuck on a number sequence question for about half an hour. Yeah.
And I'm now like,

I'm having heart palpitations. I'm like, I can't handle this.
I'm sweating.

If Danny and Bill heard a number sequence, they probably, they just, a chill ran down their spine when they heard there was a number sequence question on lateral.

This is a bit of a time saver for them. Oh,

only occasionally, but it's a bit of a time saver. You know how math textbooks at the back, they have the like

sometimes they'll have like a random number table lookup in the back and stuff like that, or like approximations of like trigonometric functions.

It's like that's what that is there, so they can do quick math or something like that. It's it's a lot more practical than that.

Not implying that mathematics is not practical, but in this case, for a football game,

thanks, Tom.

And is it practical specifically for... Because I'm also wondering, if it's relevant to football, why wouldn't every pitch have this? Why wouldn't it? You're right.

Is it people's back garden like fences?

And it's like their house numbers?

Yes, it is. Why? Oh, it's when the ball goes...

Sorry, Carol, I got it. No, no,

kick it out. It's when the ball gets kicked into someone's back garden.
They know whose house to go into. Yes,

absolutely right.

My

god,

that's quite cute.

What teamwork, Atla, that was so good. Wow.

Yeah,

that was a pass-up to the kick, and I'm on the sideways going like, yeah, go team.

I'm on this team, too.

Yes, Marine AFC are in the sixth level of the British Football League. So they're not a big team.

Their pitch backs onto a row of houses with gardens, and the numbers of those houses are on that side of the pitch on the fence.

Just so if the ball does go over, obviously, they've got spare balls, they're not that small, but at some point, someone is going to walk around and knock on the door to ask for the ball back.

Hi, Mrs. McAllister.
Can we have our ball back?

That's cool. I like that.
That's quite. I like that.

Ella, the next question is yours. This question has been sent in by James Morris Wyatt.
And I would like to personally say thank you to James Morris Wyatt for this question, because I love it.

In 2014, Arturo called his local radio station in the Dominican Republic to request a popular 1990s dance track called Are Those Reeboks or Nikes, despite no such track existing.

How did the DJ satisfy Arturo's request? I'll ask that again.

In 2014, Arturo called his local radio station in the Dominican Republic to request a popular 1990s dance track called Are Those Reeboks or Nikes?

Despite no such track existing, how did the DJ satisfy Arturo's request?

Here's an unusual thing. I have to sit out of the first half of this question.
I can remember the why, but not the what. So at some point, I'm going to have to come back in.

Fascinating.

I've never heard that way, that kind of answer there.

Put on a bucking track and freestyled an entirely new song, which then went massively viral. And we just weren't on the internet at the time to remember it.

I guess it was 2014. Yeah.

The internet was there for that. Caroline was 10.

Yeah, that would be my first guess, too, is just like an improvised.

Yeah, so I'm wondering if we need to work out why the caller called this in are they like pulling the host's leg like having a little bit of a joke that could also be a thing yeah for sure i feel like yeah the radio pranks are they really wanted this is it a song that went viral on the internet that just wasn't like released in any capacity wasn't actually from the 1990s maybe maybe it was like a

song that was a parody song meant to be like the 1990s it's like if someone requested that oh what's or a song from a film that never got oh, great shout.

No, no, oh if we think enough about the title, Are Those Reeboks or Nikes, will that help us? I will say Nike is important here, it's not Nike. Oh, oh, oh, is this a misheard lyric?

So I'm now back in because I remember this news story,

but I cannot at this point work out what the damn song is.

Oh, no. Are those rebox? Are those re-what's a 1990s dance era? So I'm thinking all nights might be all night.

Oh,

I think maybe what would help you is to think about the language this is in. I'm saying in English.

Where was this taking place again? Dominican Republic. Dominican Republic.
Are those estars? Are those rebox? Are those Reeboks or Nikes? Are those Rebox or Nikes? Are those Reeboks or Nikes?

Are those Reeboks or Nikes?

Do we need need to translate that, or is it? Yeah, you do need to translate it. I mean, reebox and nike will be the same.
It's Dominican Republic, so it's Spanish or Portuguese. Spanish.
Spanish.

It is Spanish.

Would it be like son Reebox? Yes, really. Yeah.
Or son Reebok.

Oh, what's or in Spanish? I don't even know that.

Is it or? Yeah. Yeah, Tom, you're really close to the whole thing then.
It's Esas, Son Reebox, or Nike's. Esas, Son Reebox, or Son Nikes.

Oh,

it's it's taking everything in my soul not to just sing it. Wait, so so, and so is this a Spanish phrase that would be phonetically sound like an English name song?

No, I've just clocked it because I, it, because it's a song I grew up with. This is the 90s, this is entirely my wheelhouse for this music.

This song is brain tape. Like, the minute you said the Spanish translation, it's straight in there.

So is it an English song or is it a Spanish translation? Oh, it's very English. It's an English song.
Essa. It's a great song, which is why I love this question.
It's one of my favourite songs.

On Rebox or Son Nights. Oh, you're almost...
Hearing me say it is crazy because you've got to say that. Did I just say it confidently? I was like, oh, the song is...
Esas or remarks or son.

Oh, every time you do it, it gets a little bit closer. Esas on Rebox or Son Naikes.

And it's that cadence. Esasson Reebox or Son Nike.

I'm sure maybe you don't know the song. Maybe you don't know the song.

Too young to know this song.

We're the same age.

I'm the same age as Tom, but maybe it was not in the US. I'm

not sure. That could be another issue.
I've got to. Okay, I'm going to do the rhythm.
Okay, and see if you know the song. Esa son rebok or son naik.

Esa sonribo coson nike. Is it the rhythm of the night? Yes, it is.
Yes. Yes, it is.

Wow. I would love to know, like, on average, at which point members of the audience got this.
Yes, yes.

Because people are listening to this and going, well, and at some point, based on your musical knowledge, your age,

at some point, that will have just clicked. Wow.
I am so glad, though, we got to a point that Ella was singing it. I was hoping we got to that.
That's the best we got that. Yeah.

Caroline was like, I know the answer. I just want to hear it.

So when Arturo called in and asked for, Are Those Reeboks or Nikes? The DJ satisfied his request by playing the song he was actually thinking of, The Rhythm of the Night by Corona.

And this is the clip of Arturo asking the DJ. Eso son rebu oson nai.
Eso son rebu o son

I always wonder

whether this is scripted.

I just love the moment they're both like, Yes, this is it.

Oh, I hope that was real. I really, really hope that was real and not just a DJ.
No, Tom Scott, why would you put that thought into my head?

Thank you to Bob Weiss for this next question. In 1995, for the sake of accuracy, the country of Tuvalu removed one of its nine stars from its flag.
Two years later, it was put back.

What was the reason in both cases? I'll say that again. In 1995, for the sake of accuracy, the country of Tuvalu removed one of its nine stars from its flag.
Two years later, it was put back.

What was the reason in both cases? Never heard of Tuvalu. No.

It is one of the standard answers if you're ever on the game show Pointless and they ask about countries. Nice.
Because very few people have heard of Tuvalu.

The, what's it? I mean, obviously, if it was in the States, what would have happened is that we lost two states or they seceded and then they came back. They came crawling back to the U.S., baby.

Add us back to the flag

just one star not two oh just one star okay two years but one star that feels like the most kind of

obvious answer is they lost like a state or a you know oh county or something like that

i was gonna be like

the the star is a representation of like a literal star in the sky and for a while it was occluded and so they took it off the the

flag and then when it came back into the night sky they're like oh toss it back on yeah

i just feel like you could vote lots of people vote to change flags and stuff like that so

for accuracy so that's a great point caroline

great note so that space answer i said what if i said it again but serious this time

uh accuracy yeah is it I was also thinking the exact same thing, Tom, about some kind of constellation. It's like a constellation that included

scientists decided to not include the star anymore in in the constellation or something. And then they did two years later for some reason.
Yeah, like a Pluto situation.

So do the stars represent something physical about the country? Yes, I think that's safe to say, but that first decision wasn't caused by any governmental, territorial, or geographical changes.

Does the where Tuvalu is matter? Because I don't know.

Sorry, Tuvalu's geography does matter to some extent here, yes.

So do any of you guys know where it is? No.

I will after this, and that's wonderful to think about. Oh, that's so nice.
I love learning. Wow.

Tuvalu is islands.

Islands. Nine islands.

Oh, could they have thought that maybe like two islands were actually one connected underneath? And then

they've discovered afterwards that that wasn't or it got separated? It's not that, because by their logic, the ninth star should never have been there. Ooh.
It's like the size

of the island, like what is classified as an island. It was the ninth one was too small to reach that.
It's like a Pluto situation, but

what might Tuvalu have to do with the number eight? What language do they speak there? Is it like a it means eight in that language? Yes, it does. Part of Tuvalu literally means eight.

Oh,

that is the first half of the question. Oh.

So, yes, part of Tuvalu literally means eight. Yeah, so they removed the star

to reflect this.

Yes. They added it back also to reflect accuracy.
For the sake of accuracy, they removed the star. They went down to eight.
Two years later, they put it back.

Because everybody hated it and was like, put it there. Don't like it.

The name of Tuvalu changed.

The Tuvalu changed names so that they could...

It was just a single letter. So now it's Tuvalu, but with an O, and it means nine.
No, they haven't done that yet, and they probably won't. But in theory, they could.
Okay, so we have the name.

We have the number of the stars, and we have the possibility of islands. Yes.

And so they removed one star to make it more accurate. And Tuvalu means eight.

Means eight islands, maybe? Yes. Well, it literally means eight standing together.
And does Tuvalu have like one island that's way away from the eight that are standing together?

I'm going to keep my mouth shut here. You're really close.
Oh, yeah, because also then why would they start with nine then? Because it had nine, then it went down to eight, then back up to nine.

So why would it start if the name is Or is like one part of the Tuvalu like territory on like mainland of another like continent or something like that? Was it Carolyn?

You were starting to say because it's and maybe I'll just say it a little bit please. Because it's eight standing together.
So is it just like

they were like, oh, let's change it to eight stars, but then they brought it back up tonight because it's like, well, no, it is eight standing together and then one off to the side.

You're dancing around it here. You've identified correctly.
Tuvalu is made of islands. The name means eight standing together.
They've just changed the flag. There's eight stars on it now.

Why might they suddenly want nine? That's not for the sake of accuracy anymore. It became like a territorial dispute over who owned the Ninth Island.

Or did that island go for like independence or something like that? So then they were like, oh, no, it's okay. We'll bring you back.
We'll bring you back. You've identified Ninth Island.

That wasn't even explicitly said until a moment ago. You're right.
I just thought

there is a Ninth Island. That's why the Ninth Star was originally there, but Tuvalu is eight standing together.
So what might have changed? The Ninth Island wanted...

They changed it because they wanted it for the accuracy of the name of Tuvalu, but then they changed it back because the ninth island was like, Are there people on the ninth island?

Ella, keep thinking about that. There are no people on it, it's just a what might have changed people.
People moved to it. Oh,

yes,

absolutely right. So, in night, so Tuvalu has nine islands, but only eight of them were inhabited.
Oh,

the name means eight standing together. The flag had nine stars.
So, in 1995, there were like eight stars, Tuvalu, eight standing together. And then people moved to the ninth island.
Right.

Wow.

So

the flag is finally accurate,

but the name isn't. In theory, it is now nine standing together, but there are no plans right now to change the name of Tuvalu.

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Caroline, it is over to you for your question. This question has been sent in by Guy.
Jack was employed as a signalman on the South Africa Railway in the 1890s.

He was paid 20 cents a day and half a beer a week and purportedly never once made a mistake of pulling the wrong lever in his nine-year career. Why was his employment controversial? Say that again.

Jack was employed as a signalman on the South African Railway in the 1890s.

He was paid 20 cents a day and a half a beer a week and purportedly never once made the mistake of pulling the wrong lever in his nine-year career. Why was his employment controversial?

I'm just going to assume because this is lateral and it's a question about South Africa in the 1890s that the answer is not racist. Not a part of it.

Because that is not generally the kind of question that gets asked here.

No, you're correct.

I mean, if it's controversial,

then

he was an animal. Jack's an animal of some sort.

Half a beer a week would make sense.

You know, you're taking away hard-earned jobs from, you know, non-animals.

Yeah, yeah, pretty much.

Okay, can you just fill us in on the story? Yeah, so Jack specifically was a baboon to be

just to get it out there.

So the story starts off not with Jack, but with a man called James Jumper Wide, who was a signalman, who was a man who was a signalman.

And Wide would habitually jump between rail cars,

which was a bit of a risky thing for him to do. And actually, it did lead to him getting some injuries.
He actually had to have both of his legs amputated to get his timing wrong on this.

So after this accident, he was at the market one day and he was just given. a baboon basically to assist him with tasks that he couldn't do himself anymore.

So, Wide took Jack the Baboon to work with him, where Jack started to pick up various tricks, sort of like watched Wide working.

Jack would run out with a set of keys upon hearing a locomotive whistle. He learned which signal lever to pull by counting how many.

That is great, right? That's impressive.

He learned which signal lever to move by

counting how many fingers Wide held up, indicated which signal wow. And someone in the books, they were like, there's nothing in the rules that says a baboon can't operate the track system.

So, yeah, so basically, like eventually,

Jack the Baboon could recognize different signals and whistles and was able to essentially run the signals himself.

And then an official came along and instead of going, don't do this,

they officially employed Jack the Baboon.

And actually, a fun little fact, Guy who sent in this question has seen Jack the Baboon's skull as well.

Of course,

to me, maybe not to you.

I see how that's a, yeah, Caroline would be like, what? I want to see that.

Jack's skull is preserved and is on display at Albany Museum in Makanda. So that's pretty cool.

Well, that was very quick. So Caroline, I think you have a spare question.
I do indeed.

So this question has been sent in by Lachlan Patterson.

When passing the Toyota dealership on the Westgate Freeway in Melbourne, some people regularly turn their attention to the set of 18 flags, especially in August and September. Why? One more time.

When passing the Toyota dealership on the Westgate Freeway in Melbourne, some people regularly turn their attention to a set of 18 flags, especially in August and September. Why?

18 flags in a Toyota dealership in Melbourne.

Yeah, sounds like wonderfully sound. You just say it's set up for a joke.
Yeah, oh yeah, or you just randomly came up with a computer-generated lateral puzzle.

Yes.

Location, Melbourne.

It just doesn't have a year in the question. Normally we do.
Yeah. It's got months, though, and August and September is

late winter, early spring in Australia. Yeah, that's a good point.

I was going to say fall, but then I realized it's the other hemisphere so so it could be some sort of information that they're sharing that way this this reminds me of um there's a couple of self-storage places on uh on roads into london that regularly just get a crane in and replace what's on their roof with something ridiculous like i have driven past those and there has been a fighter jet uh a tardis from doctor who

just they just every so often change what's up there and it's a really good way of getting attention. It's a really good way of getting people to remember your place.

So could they be providing like not comedy, but like information for drivers? Yeah, like the levels the flags are at tell you

some detail of the road ahead, like how congested it is or something. Yeah, you just know as you're driving into Melbourne, you look at the flags and

something.

Sounds like a lovely system. Yeah.

That's not specifically what's happening here, but you're along the right lines of it's giving information to people.

It's giving information to the drivers. So it's not about, I assume it's not giving information about the car dealership.
Like these are the cars we have on sale. Well, I mean, that could sit.

Could that signal something? Oh, could that's because could that signal like, oh, we're no longer selling like ice or chains on our tires if it's icy, right?

It's like, oh, that means it's starting to. It's Melbourne.
It's not icy.

Okay.

And yeah, I'm wondering how much of Toyota dealership is a red herring versus actually, because then, yeah, Tom Scott, you mentioned like a storage place does this. It's like, that's true.

Any business can do anything, really. So I don't know.
Yeah, does the business matter here? It being a Toyota dealership is relevant to this. Oh.

Okay. And I'm wondering if it's something they do purposefully, or is it purposefully helpful, or is it like indirectly helpful?

Like they do it and people read it as this or are they do that are they in on the bit or not is another thing I'm wondering.

People driving past are in on the bit as well as people in the car potentially with them. So it's not a code, you know, it has like maybe there's letters on the flags.
There is stuff on the flags.

What's on the flags is also relevant, but it's not numbers. I said letters, but it's good to know it's not numbers.

It's pictures then, if it's not letters or numbers. Well, when I thought it was autumn, my guess was going to be like, oh, can you like match the colours of the leaves changing or something?

But why would that be relevant to Toyota dealership?

It could be colours, though. Okay, I'm going to go straight down Route 1 Australian stereotypes.
It is the odds that the spiders are coming out of hibernation and will bite you at some point.

It is just information as you go past. It is the number of nest of spiders on the flag, just crawling around.
You're like, oh, spring.

It's the number of box jellyfish that are currently in the beach at St Kilda.

And I'm hoping that Australians will forgive me for the stereotypes by the fact I've remembered the name of St Kilda.

Is the fact that there are 18 of them important?

Yes, it is important that there are 18 of them. Because I was just wondering if maybe this is Toyota dealership next to like a rugby stadium and they can put the score on the...

Oh, Caroline's making a face.

Oh, that's another Australian stereotype. Um, when are the ashes? When's the cricket contest? Uh, I think the ashes are like December, January time.
So

yeah.

Okay. Also, okay, the Toyota dealership must be like sponsoring something.
That must be the connection. They must be a sponsor of this thing.

A sports event, and it's a sports event that takes place in September.

August, September. So it's not rugby.
Probably not rugby. Because that that would be the oh, wait, it could be the Lions versus the Southern Hemisphere teams.

It's not rugby. Okay, it's not cricket.

What else do they like there? Those are the only two things I've find out. Oh, I've got to be careful with the Australian stereotypes now.
We're getting.

But it is a score. Oh, no, but you said there's no numbers on it.

18 is important.

Are they like the teams in a league?

Tom Lum.

Oh,

it's their colours. It's their like team colours on the flags.
And when they get knocked, and when they remove, they're knocked out of the tournament, whatever. They're along the right lines.

Not necessarily knocked out. Is it just like the teams that have made it to that league that year or something like that that have been promoted or are taking place?

It's the position of Melbourne in the league. Not just Melbourne.
It's all the teams that play in this sport and it's either like maybe the level that the flag is at indicates that where they are.

Or the order that they go in. Or the order.

Oh, yes. Nice, Tom.
It's the rank that they're in in the league. Okay.
What's the sport? You just have to get the sport and then you've answered this question.

Super Mario 64 speedrunning. And I'm so shocked.
You've said cricket and rugby. Football.
Yes, it's football. Rozzi Rules football.

I nearly said regular. That'll annoy the Australians.
Association football, Rozzi Rules football.

It is the Australian Football League, yes.

So, yeah, it is literally a visual representation of the Australian Football League and its standings, basically.

So, these flags show every logo of the Australian Football League's team. The flags are ordered according to the current standing, basically.
And, of course, Toyota are a major sponsor of the AFL.

Of course, I should have known. I don't know.
Obviously, I can't believe you didn't know this.

And there are 18 teams in the league, which runs from March through to September. So the flags are updated daily during the peak AFL season.
Wow. Cool.

Which brings us to the question from the start of the show. Thank you to Nate for sending in this one.
What role did preserved fish have in the creation of the New York Stock Exchange?

Anyone want to take a guess? The price of

Cermstromen, I might have said that wrong,

the very stinky fish from Sweden

was just all over the place at the time.

It was very, very valuable, and they were using it as a

some kind of marker of the price.

Someone else, please save me. Could it be that like

the price of like a standard Tedder fish has some sort of relevance in it wasn't actually a commodity traded on the exchange. Oh.

Could it be have influenced like the stock ticker or somehow or something? Could they have been

in the old stock exchange when they were like shouting around and stuff like that? Could it be used to like signal something? Were they staying up all night eating the tins?

The waving fish in the air. Waving fish to the air.
Oh, yeah.

I was thinking, maybe, was it that people would bring tinned fish in for lunch and it would smell really bad and therefore it distract the other people around and they would lose focus on the stock exchange and therefore change it.

We have cheated a little bit with this question because strictly speaking, it's pronounced preserved.

I wish that would help me. Yeah.

Preserve Ed Fish. What role did Preserve Ed Fish have in the creation of the New York Stock Exchange? Is that a person? Oh, his name is Ed Fish.

Yeah.

Yeah. No.
No, no, Tom Scott. Actually, no.

Mr. Preserved Fish was a senior partner at Fish and Grinnell, one of the largest whale oil producers and shipping companies at the time.

He and his partner signed onto the chart of the New York Exchange Board, and that evolved into the New York Stock Exchange.

I'm glad this part's now in video so you can see all of our wonderful reactions to this.

Finally, you can see how disappointed we are.

I like it. I like this one.
There is a Quaker tradition of giving children names with religious ideals, and Preserve Ed refers to being saved from sin. Right.
That's nice.

Thank you very much to all of our players. That is our show for today.
Well done to you all.

Oh, here we go.

Tomlum, where can people find the three of you? We are wherever. Yeah, you're listening to a podcast right now.
Go, you can also listen to our podcast, Let's Learn Everything. It's the three of us.

We bring this energy to our show as well,

where we're excited to learn. Ella Hubber, what kind of topics do you cover? Oh no, but I'd already written, I'd already used all the ones on my list.

We have wonderful friends who have been on this show we've we had uh Danny and Bill on our holiday episode and I think by now we will have a guest episode with uh would you like to say Caroline yeah we're having uh the wonderful David Bennett piano uh coming on to talk about harmonies and why they sound good uh so you should come and check him out and us out over at let's learn everything

And if you want to know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com where you can also send in your own ideas for questions. We are at lateralcast basically everywhere.

And there are regular video highlights at youtube.com/slash lateralcast. But I've dropped my pen and I don't care.
We're carrying on anyway. Thank you very much to Caroline Roper,

Ella Hubber,

Tom Lum. Wonderful to be on Tom Scott.

I've been Tom Scott, that's been Lateral.

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