How Hollywood’s Wildest Assistant Stories Sparked a Community—and a Business with Assistants vs. Agents Founder Warner Bailey

I'm Nicole Lappin, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand.

It's time for some money rehab.

Because the Devil Wears Prada sequel is filming right now, a lot of people are reminiscing on the OG film starring Meryl Streep as the character based not so loosely on Anna Wintour and Anne Hathaway, her cerulean blue-wearing assistant.

If you haven't worked worked in entertainment, you might watch this movie and think there is no way that being an assistant is actually like this.

Oh, but it is.

And like most things, the truth is stranger than fiction.

And to tell us some of those wild stories today, I'm talking to Warner Bailey.

Back in 2018, while working as an assistant at a major agency, Warner created Assistants vs.

Agents, a then-anonymous Instagram page that shared the real-life Devilware's Prada stories of assistants working in entertainment.

When Money Rehab was in the very early early days, actually, and Warner was still anonymous, we DM'd assistants versus agents asking for an interview, and Warner said no, which we get into with him in this conversation.

But since we DM'd, the account has blown up to over 100,000 followers, inspired important data collection on industry pay, and if we're being real, probably made a few agents think twice before popping off in the office.

Kudos, guys.

If you are or have ever been an assistant, you will find this conversation extremely cathartic.

But the conversation isn't just for people living inside Hollywood.

Warner also talks about how to monetize a community without taking money from your community, which sounds impossible, but there are ways.

And how to be a leader that inspires good work, not fear.

This conversation is about accountability, money, and the power of speaking up, even when the people in charge would rather you didn't.

Warner Bailey, welcome to Money Rehab.

It is so good to be here.

I appreciate you having me.

Appreciate you getting into all this.

It's so juicy.

Let's start with the origin story of assistants versus agents.

Was it blowing off steam to start?

Or were you just like, these are juicy, juicy stories that nobody's telling and I have to?

Yeah, so it started off the origin of it, true meme page.

I had a graphic design interest as an assistant at WME.

When you're an assistant, there's not much creativity involved in what you're doing.

The origin, origin of it was we had these manila envelopes that you would put either contracts or things along those lines within and pass them off to each other's offices.

And we started kind of as a joke, putting a meme or two, something funny, a handwritten note, knowing that the first line of defense for your boss was always the assistant.

So they would retrieve it.

Then we went digital with it and started an Instagram account.

The first, I would say, a couple months, 10, 15, 20 followers.

And I think that's where I thought it would cap out at.

But I think the reason why I think it caught on was because it was a shared, call it trauma bonding or whatever, shared therapy.

Everyone was dealing with these things.

And at that point, no one was talking about it really, you know, maybe in closed circles.

But, you know, I would put fun stuff, funny, I hope, and relatable things up on the Instagram account and people were engaging with it.

And it gave me kind of an interesting sight into the fact that I wasn't alone in all of it in a weird way.

And it started to spread from there.

What's the craziest stuff you've heard?

Because you crowdsource all all these stories.

Yeah.

It's craziest stories.

We've thousands of them calling

NASA to try to have a private plane land on their runway.

A lot of like crazy visa stories where people had to fly to a country and try to secure a visa for someone.

Then you get the absurdity of people.

I think that the part that I love the most is the juxtaposition between two things that you might be doing within the same hour.

So again, I referenced this earlier, securing a visa for your boss's nephew or taking a driver's test for someone.

That was a story submitted, taking an SAT test, probably those are pretty illegal, but then also going back and sorting MMs for Marshawn Lynch with gloves on.

And those are probably done within the same hour.

And then going out and getting six coffees for the whole office and spilling them in your 2008 Toyota Corolla.

So I think

it's the absurdity of the

things that you're doing within the same day or even within the same hour that makes it stand out the most.

But we've been submitted.

Someone had to break into a FedEx to get get their boss's dress for an emmys party do you think that the people that had to do some of the questionably legal things were told to do those things or they were just instructed to get it done at all costs yeah i think i think it's the latter well who knows i mean certainly the former for many but i think the with this industry it is the

you know within the history of assistance the ones that rise are the ones that are able to figure it out at all costs so i think that get the emmy dress exactly how do you get it there's only one way you break in you pay someone off.

But I think there's ways to frame things certainly saying, get it done and they'll figure it out.

I was never instructed to do any of these crazy things.

I was lucky enough to have some great bosses, but others I'm sure have dealt with crazier stuff than we've been submitted.

But I think the anonymous nature at which people are able to share their stories and some of them are, I mean, most of them are hilarious.

It's just dealing with like taking your dog to a vet to get.

you know, their to get braces on or like taking a turtle to get Botox done was another one.

Yeah.

It's probably a pretty good looking turtle at this point.

But yeah, I don't like crazy.

But those aren't even the craziest ones.

Does it ever scare some of them away from getting into the

maybe, but maybe that's not a bad thing?

Because I think, you know, there's a reality of our industry, but the reality is shifting.

And that's where I'm really headed towards now.

It's how can we put together resources to give more insight into the current landscape, but also help change it.

So to give more access to people, to find out that there's roles outside of just going to the mailroom to we're working on a book, scripted show things like that that will highlight again the absurdity of the industry but also provide roadmaps that may have not existed certainly didn't exist when i was joining the industry and definitely didn't exist when you know the the generation before so that's kind of the goal now in yeah it may it may straight some people away but you know there's a reality that you know within every industry is there's difficulties but there's ways to overcome it i think but what was your experience like at wme did you feel like it went from hazing to exploitation to a point where this was actually getting above and beyond the normal course of business?

So, to be honest, like this might be a bit of a letdown, but I actually loved my time at WME.

I think I can't pretend to share the same experience as many others who have worked in entertainment, but I enjoyed it.

I also had the benefit of working for some great bosses, and I think that's where it starts.

It depends who you're working for.

So, I was lucky enough to work for three

great bosses who I'm still close with then.

But no, I really enjoyed my time at WME.

I come from Philly.

I had no connections to the industry.

Took me six months to even get an interview.

Never been to LA before I moved here.

Got an interview on a Thursday and they said, be out here by Sunday.

You start on Monday.

And I'd never been to LA.

So I just felt lucky and, you know, had to just think about all the times that I wanted to break into the industry.

So those points at which I was there, I appreciated my position there.

But, you know, obviously dealing with some of the stuff we did, and we'll get into how much we were getting paid made it difficult at times but i was lucky enough to have to work for some great people what's the craziest thing you ever dealt with as an assistant i wasn't an assistant so what's the craziest thing you've ever dealt with in entertainment oh i don't know i i like i was always surprised anytime

i i had an agent very young because i started in the business very young but i would always like talk to the assistants this is not this just feels like normal decorum of life and be like hey how are you

What's this?

And they oftentimes it'd be like, okay, here's my boss.

Or like, I'm not supposed to say anything.

Like, I'm not a human.

And it would always be like the, the name of the person assistant at whatever, like, not their actual name.

Because, oh, yeah, we've made many memes about not having that, not having an email address, which I still find insane.

They're like, people, my email was initials ASST2 because I was a second assistant for a while.

So I didn't even have the first assistant email.

Crazy.

It was like people reached out.

They're like, hey,

second string guy.

Like, it's great to see you.

But yeah, it's crazy, but go on.

Cause I think that part is still insane that people don't have their own email address.

I just, I felt there was just like this general nervousness about

talking about themselves or like having an identity.

And so, you know, because I would talk to them whenever I would call and be like, how are you?

You were out sick.

Like, are you okay?

But like, there wasn't very much willingness to

just have general

small talk or discussion.

And I just felt like, oh my gosh, are they like in a, in a cage or like in a dungeon?

Like, are they getting, like, are they instructed not to talk?

I just felt like, are you trying to tell me something?

Is this like, you know, a Britney like cry for help situation?

Are you okay?

That was my only like experience with assistance.

And I didn't understand the concept of the mailroom.

That seemed weird to me.

Still is.

I mean, crazy.

When we first started at WME, this is public knowledge probably at this point you were handed a stack of 120 note cards and you had to memorize all of the agents initials their four digit extension who their assistants or assistants were by name what territory or business unit they were working on and you had 120 you couldn't start work till you did that and once you did then you had to take a states test you had to memorize all 50 states which i loved because i was like my brain works that way i'm very bad at like the math area but that wasn't too bad and then you had to take a typing test to you know ensure that you're able to type to take notes.

And some of that stuff, like looking back, it all makes sense why we were doing that.

You had to, if your boss was like, give, give someone a call, you had to, you know, know their extension.

Now it's probably easier with, you know, the, the data that's there or states, if you're routing a tour to understand where they were.

But it was like, it literally was, it was crazy to be graduating Georgetown, you know, working in tech for six months.

I'm like, I'm going to go to LA.

And then being put, literally in the mailroom, which is at the basement and taking a cards test.

I was like, oh my God, what did I sign up for?

Wait, what is a states test?

You had to

fill out all 50 states.

Map?

Yeah, and get it 100%.

It's crazy.

I know.

I was like, am I implementing this in our company?

You should have everyone who goes on this podcast take a states test.

Do you know?

I would do the best.

Do you know the state song?

No, I don't.

Should you sing it?

I love the state song.

Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut,

Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho.

Illinois, Indiana.

I know them in Albany.

But Day, Florida, you would ace

skate test.

Yeah, you would ace it.

Hold on to your wallets.

Money rehab will be right back.

And now for some more money rehab.

So how much were you getting paid?

Yeah, so I actually pulled my W-2s for fun.

And looking back, first year in the industry, my gross pay and putting the gross in gross was 41K.

I think it was about 41,700, netting probably around 31.

And you think about the rent at that point, $1,700, I think I was paying.

So you're netting out after all of it.

I think it was about $1,000 a month

you were dealing with.

The second year, big bonus.

Started working overtime.

Started working for the head of music over there, Kirk, who I love and still very close with.

But I was making 55K at that point.

And to me, it was, it was great.

But at the same time, thinking about back now, it's an insane amount to be making living in LA.

You know, it was, it was extremely hard.

There was no safety net.

You know, I had to make a lot of decisions financially that weren't exciting.

My brother was working at Goldman and BlackRock, and we never really talked about it.

But always looking back, I think it was probably

a huge juxtaposition in terms of what we were making.

And we're a year apart.

So, yeah, 41K, first year out of college, living in LA, not an easy time for sure.

So you collected data from your community about pay, right?

And so you found that an entertainment system makes around 45K, but that's for a 24-7, like always-on situation.

Why did you start looking into how much everybody was getting paid?

I'm assuming you guys didn't talk about it.

Yeah, no, we never talked about it because I think everyone knew at that point that everyone was making the same.

It was an hourly rate.

Overtime was great if you could get it.

It wasn't always allowed.

So fast forward to about two years in, it started to grow a lot, reaching 50,000 maybe at that point within the community.

And I started to think about it as a business opportunity and also identifying where the gaps were in pay and opportunity that we could start building businesses and resources around.

So I set out and we did a data study.

I think it was about two years ago.

And we did another one last year.

I think they should, everyone should pay their assistant what they think is, you know, they're worth.

And I'll leave it at that.

But for me, I saw it as an opportunity to get a lot of really rich first-party data and also set AVA apart from a lot of these other digital accounts as a true media brand, but also this educational research-driven arm of the company, which we've developed a lot in the past couple of years.

But it was, it was shocking.

I mean, some of the responses we got back, people were making 30-something K, you know, in 2024 was the last time we did it, which is wild to me in LA.

And you're also sitting on some more survey data from the music industry, specifically by gender.

So you found that the average for men was 85K a year.

The average for women was 75K and for non-binary, it was 55K.

What do you think the reason for that is?

Men are getting promoted faster or is simply a crazy pay gap?

Yeah, so I think there's two things working.

at the same time

you know with that data.

One is we found that there were more men in senior roles.

So that's obviously going to skew the data.

And the second is, yeah, I mean, historically men have been paid more you know, in this industry, but I do think it skewed the data much higher because men were in those leadership roles in a more prominent way.

And I think hopefully that that has been addressed certainly since I've been in the industry, it's been amazing.

We I've interviewed 100 plus execs over the past two years, and it's, it's been amazing to see, I think, the hope they're giving this next generation of women, non-binary individuals, that there is a path towards success and growth.

But I will say, yeah, I mean, traditionally, our industry, like many, you know, men have risen faster and are in more leadership positions.

And you still see that at the C-suite level, certainly.

So what's your hope by serving everybody, bringing all of this data onto the platform?

Yeah.

And like, again, I started a meme page in 2017.

Let's be clear.

Like I have had a career totally outside of that, went full-time on AVA six months ago.

So there wasn't really.

a goal starting it.

It was, it was to kind of blow off some steam, have some fun.

But for me, now looking at it, I am in a position with leverage and a hyper-engaged, high-value community that I feel like I can do some good.

So I'll publish the data.

There are publications I will run with it.

I'll let them do their thing.

But then it's for me to identify where are the gaps in the market.

There's two of them.

One is entrance into the industry.

The second's retention.

So I think entry and access to entertainment has always been an issue because if you're getting paid, again, 45K to work at one of these legacy companies and your rent is $1,800 a month, do the math, you're coming out with student debt.

It's not possible for a lot of people to enter the industry.

So we're building resources.

We launched the job board.

Actually, yesterday, we've had a newsletter for the past two years with 70 plus open jobs.

We've interviewed recruitment leads.

We've interviewed execs to give advice for the next generation.

We're throwing events all around the country, both virtual and in person.

We're doing panels.

So I think we're trying to provide the tools now.

for people to see, and students specifically, that there are more ways to enter the industry than just to go into the mailroom at a WME or CA or UTA.

There's more companies popping up than ever.

There's more opportunities.

I think it's easier now to launch a company than it's ever been.

So to go back to the data, I think it gives us a leverage point, not only with brands, not only with investors, but also the public to say, hey, here's the issue.

Let's all work on fixes to allow more people into the industry and allow for assistants and others to continue and stay in the industry longer.

Do you find that a lot of like rich kids go that route because they can?

Yeah, I mean, certainly.

And you're surrounded by by a lot of it.

I think,

yeah, of course.

I mean, if you're making 45K, to some extent, you have to have some sort of supplement.

And like I didn't know anyone in the industry.

I had very supportive parents.

And like, I probably had a year runway before I had to like really make a decision.

And luckily I was able to, you know, move up and then left to go to Live Nation.

But for many, that's just impossible.

That's probably the biggest rag that our industry gets is that, you know, people coming from wealth will have an immediate step up because there's just the other aspect of it is these opportunities are highly concentrated in cities that cost a lot to live in so in New York and LA you know even like a London I mean Nashville is you know growing now but yeah so I think certainly and you know you get those people everywhere in finance my brother works in you know in finance and when I visited New York everyone's wearing a vest and running around I couldn't be seen in a tie anymore but I think you deal with those stereotypes at every industry but I certainly think in entertainment you have a lot of those people so do you remember that we reached out to you?

Yeah, I know.

In 2021,

and you said no.

I thought it was fake, first of all.

I'm like, there's a 0% chance that, you know,

you guys are reaching out to me for an interview.

And I was obviously, you know, humbled by it.

But yeah, I think at that point, I was, I was anonymous behind it.

So when you all had reached out, I was still in that position of kind of waiting for a firestorm to come my way from people that I had worked with.

So I think at that point, I was saying no to anything that attached my name or let me have a platform with it.

But here we are.

Here we are.

What were you so nervous about?

Yeah, I mean, I think at that point, I hadn't been able to speak publicly a lot on why I was doing it.

And now I am in platforms like this and, you know, through our newsletter and other forums.

So I think at that point, I needed to prove to the public and people that I had worked with prior.

And even at that, at that point, I had a boss and I was working full-time that didn't know I was doing any of this.

And even six months ago, when I went full-time on AVA, I still had a full-time gig that didn't know I did a lot of this.

And, you know, who knows?

But so now they know.

Well, now they know.

Yeah, it's pretty obvious now.

But I think the worry in my mind was that I was still not senior enough in my role for individuals to look at me like he's doing it for the right reasons.

I think I was still kind of in that middleman lane, junior level, and still rising at a traditional company like Alive Nation to where they certainly would not have wanted me to hop on this podcast and talk about the issues people are facing.

So So, I needed to set out, build a company, and hopefully do some good and talk on it a lot more before I hopped on something as big as this.

And I'm just honored again to be on this platform and the show with you.

Thank you so much

for this coming out party.

Yeah, here we are.

Were you worried about getting blacklisted in the industry?

I mean, because agents knew about the platform at this point.

Yeah, certainly.

I think the reason why I wasn't was because there's enough platforms out there.

I want name names that identify identify people by name or bring names into stories that are

things that are potentially legal or wrong, immoral.

For me, it's always been taking things and putting a positive spin on them.

As much as the memes may seem like negative, it's really just pointing out things that everyone deals with and in relatable instances in the industry.

So I was never worried about...

the blacklist side of it because nothing I had ever posted to that point called people out by name.

It was a general theme about things that assistants deal with, trying to get their boss's cousin's like daughter a visa

in Brazil.

Like that's not a specific tie to one person.

Many people out there may be like, oh, I've made my assistant do that at some point.

But it was really about making relatable content that puts some lighthearted nature on the crazy stuff that we deal with.

So in a way, I wasn't really nervous ever about that.

Some people probably were like, what the hell is that guy doing?

People probably were shocked it was it was me because a lot of people around me had no idea so I got a lot of notes being like had no no idea that was you behind the account for all these years, but also got a lot of positive notes about people wanting to now support what we were doing.

But yeah, so I got a lot of, I was pretty nervous, obviously, when that came out.

So you were like gossip guy behind the scenes.

And people that know me, that is the opposite of how I am in real life.

And it's been hard for me to come on.

And a lot of the content is humorous leaning.

For me, I'm more serious about the entrepreneurial stuff I'm doing, building a business.

So when I almost felt like I was leading a double life where I would spend 14 hours a day working and then at night, I would get in the meme lab and cook up some whatever we were going to post for the next day.

So it was a fun time.

You know, and I think it was,

I started to see an opportunity right around then, though, to turn it into a business, which, which we have.

I mean, you're not

when, so when you said no to us,

I didn't, I was like, we're still going to get him.

It was a no for now.

Yeah.

But

I did not picture you when behind the account.

That is exactly what I'm saying.

And so when that was, I think, the most surprising for many people is that I'm now a 30-something year old guy that's saying all these things online in a way that's very gossip girly.

And then in person, I struggle at even cracking a joke in front of people.

I do.

And like, so it's been, it's, it's, I think that was the most shocking for a lot of people being like, I thought you were some 22-year-old.

Like, I did.

Yeah.

I thought that it was maybe maybe a pseudonym.

When I showed up or before, what did you, who did you think was behind the academy?

I thought potentially you were a woman.

Yeah, most people do.

That is really funny.

Like, I mean, I have thought about it because when people, people are genuinely shocked when I show up to, like on video calls, usually it happens where I'll get on with like seven execs from like a Disney or Hulu we're working on something with.

And like, they'll be like, is anyone else joining?

I'm like, nope.

Like, you got, you got him.

And they're like, okay.

Like, and it's funny because, and then I'll, you know, I, but it's been hard for me to like go out and do these sort of things because people expect me to be that sort of person.

So when I'm hosting the podcast, like they want me to be like erratic and say crazy stuff.

And then it's just not, I can't do it.

Like it's, it's, I can write like that, but I'm starting to like layer in, you know, some, some things.

Um, but it's been really, yeah, that's probably the hardest part about it.

I'm just curious when you, you said you got married.

What did you tell your wife?

about what you do when you met her?

Oh, I was going to say, like, on the wedding day, she knew before.

I probably wouldn't be married if I told her on our wedding day that was a meme lord.

But no, I think it's the funniest is actually what she tried to tell her parents and what I tried to tell my parents.

Because I'm like, at the beginning, you know, it wasn't like there was shame about what I was doing, but it's just hard to explain to people, like, hey, I run a meme page.

So at the beginning, my wife would always be like, yeah, he's like, makes memes.

I'm like, please don't say that.

Like, this make, you know, but it is funny to still try to explain to people what I do for a living and what the business is based around.

Because when they hear meme page, you know, you think of like fuck Jerry or like some of these, you know,

just like strictly meme pages.

But it is really funny still to try to explain to my parents.

I've made many memes about that, about trying to explain to my parents and other people that work entertainment what we do for a living.

So yeah, it's, it's, uh, she was accepting of it.

She loves it.

She's my uh, she's my manager.

She's, I love her.

She just puts up with me.

Hold on to your wallets.

Money rehab will be right back.

And now for some more money rehab.

I think we hear a lot that agents say, this is just how it's always been done, or this is how I did it, or, you know, this is what we all went through.

And so it's your turn.

Why do you think that idea gets perpetuated even today in the industry?

Yeah, I think it's interesting.

For

there's one core reason is because there's an it's a supply and demand issue, right?

There's an endless demand for the job.

There's people out there that would go work at one of these mail rooms for free.

I know it.

And so when you have that, you don't necessarily have to pay them more because they're going to work for whatever price you pay.

They feel like it's a good learning experience, which for me it was.

I mean, it opened up a whole world of opportunity that I never had, never dreamed of having a network

structure learning.

I think you get a crash course entertainment.

But I think the problem is that there's an endless crop of young people who want to break into entertainment.

And traditionally, the way to break in was go to a mailroom.

But I think it's changing now in that, and I said this earlier, there's more ways to break into the industry through startups, through starting your own company, through smaller agencies that have popped up.

That's just on the agency representation side to be talent themselves.

People are content creators.

You're doing this.

I'm doing this.

There's more ways, I think, to break into entertainment than there's ever been before, where you're starting to see good talent move away from traditional large companies because they figure I can go get paid more and have more autonomy off the jump by avoiding potentially a 45K role and jumping into something that may be more exciting and give them a seat at the table.

Do you think that the good that you talk about has trickled over to the way agents are now treating?

assistants.

Are they perhaps thinking twice before doing something weird or asking their assistant to do something weird because they don't want to get blasted?

Probably.

And, you know, I think it's at this point, I wouldn't say yes or no, but there's certainly times where people have reached out and, you know, I think expressed that.

You know, I think it's when things become public in a way that isn't directly poking fun at a certain person, but more at a theme or a situation or a narrative or a certain.

thing that may be negative.

There's a shift in behavior by the masses because people may look inward and say, maybe that is me at that that point i found myself too you know at some points checked by some of the things that i'm posting like is it is there's people working for me now we have a team and you know when i ask them to do something i'm like maybe i'm being annoying right now or maybe i'm doing asking them something yeah am i the asshole now is have the tides turned but yeah i think it's good to be checked um you know as i was saying earlier with co-founders who are you know able to say no to each other i think looking at content or a lot of the interviews we've done where they're giving advice to the next generation, also sometimes asking them, what's the worst piece of advice you've gotten?

Or or what do you see that's changing in this industry?

And what do you, what excites you?

What makes you nervous?

Those sort of things you can look inward on and decide if you're, you know, you're part of the problem or the solution.

And I'm hoping to be part of the solution.

Sounds like you are.

I mean, that's very cool accountability, I would say, to an industry that's notoriously

called out for bad behavior, questionable behavior.

Yeah.

And like, I'm not here to, to, again, change behavior by anyone.

I think just bring it to light, use that as leverage to then create positive things, but also have fun with it.

I mean, we do, you know, we put happy hours around

all around the country, bringing community together.

I've gotten tattoos at a lot of our events.

We had Flava Flaves show up and do and host one of our events.

Like just fun stuff.

Give us the ability to have fun with an industry that is called entertainment, but a lot of the entertaining aspects of it are stripped away when you're just starting.

So I think for me too, it's just having fun with it.

Like I love what I do.

I love the people people i work with um and also you know i'm excited about the direction this industry is headed just judging by a lot of the people i talk to but yeah i mean you know if if someone checks their behavior based off of like one post or something that may happen amazing but that's not my intention to sit here and like call out companies that i'm now working with most of them um on ways to either provide entertaining community driven events or resource driven solutions to to fix some issues um and now the job board board, you know, they're posting their own jobs on our job board.

So, you know, hopefully, you know, we're pushing people towards good opportunities.

What's the business model there?

Do you get a cut of what that is?

Yeah.

So

we have a couple.

My goal by next year is to have 10 revenue streams.

And I think one of them being the job board, we just launched.

There's the obvious of having, you know, selling ads through, which we do in our newsletter.

You know, we have their subscription models, which are, you know, we're working on B2B is a big part of our business because at the end of the day, it's hard to look at someone who makes $45,000 and sell them an $80 sweatshirt or a $50 membership to something because that's a good chunk of the take-home pay at the end of the day.

So any way that we can subsidize opportunities for the end consumer in our community to not have to pay and put that burden on companies or others, we will go towards that.

But I think there are things with tech and others that you have to charge a consumer at some point.

But for, we've been very lucky that companies have and brands have been very supportive in what we're trying to do.

So we're able to derive a lot of revenue streams, whether it be digitally, in person, through experiential events,

ads through our newsletter, ads in the job board, placement fees in the job board.

Those are things that the burden falls on company versus consumer.

And the consumer, at that point, someone that doesn't have a lot of disposable income.

No, we think about that a lot too.

I mean, we're helping people get their money together.

How do we try to do that?

You're doing it.

You're leading the charge.

I've read your books and love this pod.

Like, it's, you know, I often think back to like how, you know, when i first started in in that like how i was not at all thinking about the future there's not much to think about again when you're taking home whatever a thousand a month but you know i look at someone like yourself who you've said you know

many times to be proactive in ways that think about your future, take steps towards where you want to be, think about how you want to be saving money for the future.

And oftentimes life is moving so fast and you're only focused on the next minute or the next day, the next meeting you have where you're not looking into the the future.

So I struggled with that a lot, even when I started my own company, thinking about saving, thinking about making smart business decisions.

Luckily, I've never been someone that's driven by a lot of material things ever.

So the things that I like spending on are back into the business, but you've made me really think about where I want to be in 10 years and how I want to save and what I want to be allocating my resources to.

Did we just come up with a collab?

There you go.

I'm down.

I think you need to come to one of our events and teach the next generation about how to be saving and saving money.

I'm in.

Makes all the sense in the world.

So it's crazy that you're now wrapped by UTA.

What is that like being on the other side?

Yeah, I mean, I built this alone in a silo for six years.

And up until six months ago, it was just me.

I was doing the newsletter, you know, doing all the digital work, answering all the emails, negotiating all the deals with some of the brands we had mentioned, following up on contracts, chasing money.

And I came to the realization that

it was time.

And I've been at other agencies before, but it was time to put a team around me of people who are much smarter in their areas that I can look towards as mentors.

Cause it's been, I will say, sometimes lonely to be building alone.

And I think you don't have a partner to bounce ideas off of.

I'm jealous sometimes of co-founders.

I think there's

a lot that can be done.

more efficiently by someone sitting across from you telling you no or at least dictating, hey, let's think about it differently.

So my goal since six months ago going full time on this was to surround myself with people who are smarter than me, who have done it before, who are experts in their field.

UTA is amazing.

They've put a team around me that I'm excited to pursue opportunities in IP development, tech, which we're working on now, editorial.

You know, I'm speaking at about 15 colleges coming up that I'm excited to connect with students, but putting structure around that and building a team because we're now an educational ecosystem.

And we talked a lot about what we're doing on that side, but also a media company.

We're building out IP and we are building out a network to essentially empower younger creatives to come on and tell their stories in different ways.

There's a lot of, a hell of a lot of people out there, much funnier than me, much younger, much more in the culture.

So to have a team around will allow the business to empower younger people and tell more stories.

Because I can't do it alone anymore.

And I've hired people around me who are amazing, but I think having structure around will take it to the next level, hopefully.

I mean, what were those What were those meetings like when you were interviewing representation?

Like you've been calling these agencies out for years yeah it was funny i mean probably four years ago was the first time i got a return callback from any brand and i had reached out for the first couple years so call it three years maybe i can count on one hand how many brands hit me back for one of the first major partnerships we did was paramount around one of their titles the first big event we did was around with netflix and joey king who was amazing got to introduce her on stage surprise a bunch of assistants we have a bunch of screenings coming up but i think it took one or two of those brands or agencies to see what we were doing, or I was doing, I guess, at that point, and why I was doing it for the tide to start turning.

And like Hollywood, it became very competitive.

So now, you know, we did the Netflix screening.

We have two screenings coming up.

We're doing the panels with, you know, brands involved.

Now we're launching panels and events in Toronto and Philly and Atlanta.

in Austin, Texas, in London, and a bunch of other areas that are hubs for entertainment where brands are really eager to get in front of the next generation.

So I think there was that switch in a very interesting way from zero return calls for four years or three years, grinding to try to get some funding or some partnership to create a business out of it.

And then, once a domino fell,

you know, a couple dominoes fell that allowed me to create a business out of it and then approach representation with a different angle on, hey, I want to build out tech to empower the next generation.

I want to build out IP to talk about these stories and bring them to life, where it wasn't just,

you know, a meme page at that point it was a media brand an educational ecosystem tech and then some things I wanted to do to connect with students the next generation on some speaking things that made those conversations a lot easier than going in with just like a meme page for sure no you've built a real media business I'm just wondering if UTA was like okay we'll sign you but

be easy on us no I mean no I love them like the team there is incredible and I was at a different agency before who I love as well but I think it's the personal relationships I've built and people getting to know me and why I want to do it.

Because on the surface of the account, most people, if they're just seeing it on Instagram for the first time, would have no idea any of this other stuff is existing or is exist or has existed and some of the plans I have for it.

So I think a lot of it was based off of personal relationships that have developed over the past couple years and made those conversations a lot easier.

But no,

I will still be posting memes and poking fun at our industry, but there's a whole different side of it now that I really invested a lot of my time on.

How can I use that leverage and the platform for good to set up the next generation of people entering the industry or wanting to enter the industry in a better place than I did, and certainly in a better place than the generation before did?

So we end our episodes, as you know, Warner, by asking all of our guests for a tip that listeners can take straight to the bank.

What's one piece of advice that you have heard from the community that you think is the best?

And what's the worst piece of advice?

Wow, I love that.

So take initiative and stop asking for permission is probably the best piece of advice that I've gotten.

You know, I've sat with a lot of execs throughout our interview series that we do for the past couple of years and there's a through line through them all.

And they see an opportunity.

They don't wait for an opportunity to be asked of them or a task.

They see an opportunity and they go seize it by moving quickly, by being confident in themselves and not letting the doubts around them.

make their decision, you know, a no, it's a yes.

And finding, if you're an artist and you want to create, go and create.

If you want to to start a business, there's financial constraints around that, but find a way to do it.

You know, if you want to go and get a job, the job waiting for you isn't on LinkedIn.

It's through reaching out to someone who may be aligned at some position with that role or someone in your community or your network who will help spearhead that conversation for you.

So be proactive.

And I think that has been something that I struggled with a lot the first couple of years being so head down.

I was just only focused on being the best assistant.

and what is being the best assistant being the best at reviewing a contract or following up you know on a schedule a meeting but the best advice i will say early on in your career is also taking the initiative to establish yourself and your own brand by reaching out to people by

walking in someone's office and introducing yourself and i think the worst advice is is interesting and i think i'll look back into,

I'll look at myself for this and saying yes.

And that was something where that was if you asked me this question on this show last year I would have said my best piece of advice is say yes but I've gotten burnt out by the amount of times that I've said yes to every single opportunity I think there's a position earlier in your career where saying yes is so important you have to at some point have to but I think they're also you have to think about the opportunities to say no to and that can bleed into your social life There's going to be opportunities on a Sunday where you're invited to something where you know that it would be better served preparing for an interview tomorrow or meeting.

I think think the

ability to say no to those sort of things, where you think of where you want to be in 10 years, setting yourself up through saying no, I think is equally as important as those yeses.

But yeah, a lot of success I put towards two things, having an immense amount of ADD and having a very patient wife who lets me pull the car over to make a meme in the car when I'm feeling inspired.

So shout out, Annabelle.

Money Rehab is a production of Money News Network.

I'm your host, Nicole Lapin.

Money Rehab's executive producer is Morgan Lavoie.

Our researcher is Emily Holmes.

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And let's be honest, we all do.

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And lastly, thank you.

No, seriously, thank you.

Thank you for listening and for investing in yourself, which is the most important investment you can make.